FabSwingers.com forum: US kills Iranian general

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Major escalation in tensions, with Iran promising’ severe ‘ retaliation. Welcome to an unstable, dangerous 2020.

What a way to deflect from impeachment.....

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *V-AliceTV/TS
over a year ago

Ayr

"Major escalation in tensions, with Iran promising’ severe ‘ retaliation. Welcome to an unstable, dangerous 2020.

What a way to deflect from impeachment....."

Well, it's one way to avoid the impeachment trial damaging your chances of re-election.

That's really what this assassination is about. The US could have killed him any time they wanted to.

Timing is everything.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Major escalation in tensions, with Iran promising’ severe ‘ retaliation. Welcome to an unstable, dangerous 2020.

What a way to deflect from impeachment.....

Well, it's one way to avoid the impeachment trial damaging your chances of re-election.

That's really what this assassination is about. The US could have killed him any time they wanted to.

Timing is everything."
.

But impeachment has seen his poll ratings actually go up!.

In fact the more the Americans see of the impeachment the higher his poll ratings go so I'm not entirely sure you could use that reasoning?.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Depends how your bias goes I suppose but I'd say it's got more to do with the US Embassy attack in Iraq.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *an For YouMan
over a year ago

belfast/holywood

It’s about time someone rubbed these fuckers noses in the shit

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *V-AliceTV/TS
over a year ago

Ayr

"Major escalation in tensions, with Iran promising’ severe ‘ retaliation. Welcome to an unstable, dangerous 2020.

What a way to deflect from impeachment.....

Well, it's one way to avoid the impeachment trial damaging your chances of re-election.

That's really what this assassination is about. The US could have killed him any time they wanted to.

Timing is everything..

But impeachment has seen his poll ratings actually go up!.

In fact the more the Americans see of the impeachment the higher his poll ratings go so I'm not entirely sure you could use that reasoning?."

Fair point. A belt and braces approach never does any harm, though.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *an For YouMan
over a year ago

belfast/holywood

Best fill up quick. Oil prices rising

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *V-AliceTV/TS
over a year ago

Ayr

For those of you who had no idea who Qassem Suleimani was:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b054gxpl

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

"Best fill up quick. Oil prices rising"
im waiting for this to be the fault of brexit lol

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

Great timing. Send a rocket up the ass of a terrorist and watch the patriots go.

2020 is going to be a bumpy ride.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Major escalation in tensions, with Iran promising’ severe ‘ retaliation. Welcome to an unstable, dangerous 2020.

What a way to deflect from impeachment.....

Well, it's one way to avoid the impeachment trial damaging your chances of re-election.

That's really what this assassination is about. The US could have killed him any time they wanted to.

Timing is everything..

But impeachment has seen his poll ratings actually go up!.

In fact the more the Americans see of the impeachment the higher his poll ratings go so I'm not entirely sure you could use that reasoning?.

Fair point. A belt and braces approach never does any harm, though."
.

There's been a Muslim civil war happening for decades now.

On one side is Iranian Shias on the other Saudi Sunnis and Wahhabi.

The US for it's own financial decisions decided to back the Saudis, the Russians the Iranians and the Chinese took Africa while both of them squabbled

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Great timing. Send a rocket up the ass of a terrorist and watch the patriots go.

2020 is going to be a bumpy ride. "

Murica fuck yeah...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ittleAcornMan
over a year ago

visiting the beach

It just seems he woke up and decided someone should die. Quite terrifying when you think about it.

Fairly obviously a snap decision, as the US are today suggesting that their embassy staff should maybe leave.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It just seems he woke up and decided someone should die. Quite terrifying when you think about it.

Fairly obviously a snap decision, as the US are today suggesting that their embassy staff should maybe leave. "
.

Yea because that's how it works in the movies

You know jack reacher ain't real don't you?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In the 1990s Bill Clinton launched a strike on Iraq and his impeachment was delayed.

No doubt trump hopes the same will work.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

By relying on proxy militia that Qasim Soleimani reportedly established, financed, controlled & directed, Iran was able to push for her interests in unaccountable ways via means beyond diplomacy that usually only a state could run, but with plausible deniability due to proxies.

Being by proxy, US was constrained in how it could react against provocative Iranian escalations. International law sets a high bar for war by proxy. But US may finally have called Iran’s bluff: Iran will have to choose now to either declare war,or reduce her managed provocations.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Best fill up quick. Oil prices rising

im waiting for this to be the fault of brexit lol"

You seem to be obsessed with bringing Brexit up

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"It’s about time someone rubbed these fuckers noses in the shit"

No surprise that someone in Belfast revels in sectarian conflict.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

" But US may finally have called Iran’s bluff: Iran will have to choose now to either declare war,or reduce her managed provocations."

Iran will bide its time, but I have no doubt it will retaliate quid pro quo, just as it did in 1988 when the US blew up Iran Air flight 655 and killed 290 passengers and crew.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" But US may finally have called Iran’s bluff: Iran will have to choose now to either declare war,or reduce her managed provocations.

Iran will bide its time, but I have no doubt it will retaliate quid pro quo, just as it did in 1988 when the US blew up Iran Air flight 655 and killed 290 passengers and crew.

"
.

You mean the plane they shot down by accident because it was flying at them and not responding to radio communications, which the US eventually paid substantial financial reparations for?.

Yea I guess I can see why you'd want to car bomb innocents for that.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Iran ain't gonna do shit for awhile as there already fighting it's own unhappy citizens.

The reality is this all boils down to it's nuclear ambitions, give them up or carry on being forced down the pan by the higher food chain.

Alas I fear the Iranian government are more than happy to sacrifice every Iranian citizen for it's own political goal but that's the crazy religious for you, there'll hold on to dogma forever.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" But US may finally have called Iran’s bluff: Iran will have to choose now to either declare war,or reduce her managed provocations.

Iran will bide its time, but I have no doubt it will retaliate quid pro quo, just as it did in 1988 when the US blew up Iran Air flight 655 and killed 290 passengers and crew.

Whatever they do it will be difficult to pin it on them..

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *host63Man
over a year ago

Bedfont Feltham

"Major escalation in tensions, with Iran promising’ severe ‘ retaliation. Welcome to an unstable, dangerous 2020.

What a way to deflect from impeachment....."

Great another unwinnable.war te UK is going to be sucked into just because trump want.to distract people from impeachment

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

You mean the plane they shot down by accident because it was flying at them and not responding to radio communications, which the US eventually paid substantial financial reparations for?.

Yea I guess I can see why you'd want to car bomb innocents for that."

An airbus, on its scheduled flight path, from Tehran to Dubai via Bandar Abbas, detonated in mid-air by a US Navy warship.

A dreadful mistake to make.

290 dead, including 66 children.

What did the US do?

Court-martial the skipper?

No, it gave the entire crew a medal and a ticker-tape parade through New York on its return home.

"I don't care what the facts are - I will never apologise for the United States," said the vice-president, George Bush.

It took 8 years and a case at the International Court before the US expressed any sort of regret.

By which stage 270 people had died in retaliation at Lockerbie.

So yes I fully expect quid pro quo again, against some high-ranking US official somewhere in the world.

It is inevitable.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

One US staffer killed on a military base, so the guy that ordered it is offed.

It seems a big response - given the US had already blown up 25 militia men involved in the killing. Killing the bloke at the top, leaving embassy staff in situ, not evacuating prior, is a bit psychotic really.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

it does beg a wider question - why is the US military still occupying Iraq?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *an For YouMan
over a year ago

belfast/holywood

"It just seems he woke up and decided someone should die. Quite terrifying when you think about it.

Fairly obviously a snap decision, as the US are today suggesting that their embassy staff should maybe leave. .

Yea because that's how it works in the movies

You know jack reacher ain't real don't you?

I wish he was real

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *an For YouMan
over a year ago

belfast/holywood

"It’s about time someone rubbed these fuckers noses in the shit

No surprise that someone in Belfast revels in sectarian conflict.

Manchester actually

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *an For YouMan
over a year ago

belfast/holywood

Sooner or later , Iran will have to be neutralised...... permanently

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sooner or later , Iran will have to be neutralised...... permanently"

Blimey. A lot of people live in Iran.

I for one, condemn your call for genocide.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is good but with it comes consequences so now the iranians is warning the westerners to leave the country.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" But US may finally have called Iran’s bluff: Iran will have to choose now to either declare war,or reduce her managed provocations.

Iran will bide its time, but I have no doubt it will retaliate quid pro quo, just as it did in 1988 when the US blew up Iran Air flight 655 and killed 290 passengers and crew.

Whatever they do it will be difficult to pin it on them..

"
.

That doesn't seem to matter to trump?.

Maybe he'll just off the revolutionary lot

Who knows, it might work out for once

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It is good but with it comes consequences so now the iranians is warning the westerners to leave the country."
.

There's no westerners with any sense left in Iran and hasn't been for some time.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *heHookyMonsterMan
over a year ago

Liverpool

It appears reading the latest that he may well have been behind both the recent attack on the US embassy and the one in Libya a few years back. Right or wrong this was not one of the worlds good guys.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It spells the end of the Iran nuclear deal.

They’ll be enriching uranium as fast as possible now.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It spells the end of the Iran nuclear deal.

They’ll be enriching uranium as fast as possible now.

"
.

They won't hit the US, only people worried about Iran and nuclear weapons are Israel and by that fact Palestine and Lebanon, Saudi, Iraq, Turkmen, Pakistan...

The list is long but Donald j ain't on it.

To be fair laying waste to the middle East should help with that climate emergency

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *an For YouMan
over a year ago

belfast/holywood

"Sooner or later , Iran will have to be neutralised...... permanently

Blimey. A lot of people live in Iran.

I for one, condemn your call for genocide."

You mentioned genocide.i didn’t. Typical labour supporter distortion of what has been actually said .

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *an For YouMan
over a year ago

belfast/holywood

"It appears reading the latest that he may well have been behind both the recent attack on the US embassy and the one in Libya a few years back. Right or wrong this was not one of the worlds good guys. "

Pretty sure terrorist supporting Corbyn will rush to attack the US. I mean a bad guy has been killed. A bad guy who ya responsible for thousands of murders. Probably a mate of jezza s

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Pretty sure terrorist supporting Corbyn will rush to attack the US. I mean a bad guy has been killed. A bad guy who ya responsible for thousands of murders. Probably a mate of jezza s "

I doubt anybody in the US had heard of him until today.or knew he was their enemy

They’ll be hating him by the end of the day and glad he was assassinated..

Standard..

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *evil_u_knowMan
over a year ago

city

The international laws on starting wars dont apply to the US.

I'm sure some British person has already been tasked to write up a report on their behalf, thinking it was a theoretical thought project, their document will be shown in a few months, and they will commit "suicide".

Will be interesting if America can beat Iran, and finally get ISIS the support they need to overthrow Syria so that Israel can take palestine and the golan heights.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It spells the end of the Iran nuclear deal.

They’ll be enriching uranium as fast as possible now.

They have probably been doing that anyway

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It spells the end of the Iran nuclear deal.

They’ll be enriching uranium as fast as possible now.

They have probably been doing that anyway

It’s probably their best option now to survive.

The philosophy is working for North Korea..

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It spells the end of the Iran nuclear deal.

They’ll be enriching uranium as fast as possible now.

They have probably been doing that anyway

It’s probably their best option now to survive.

The philosophy is working for North Korea.."
.

Yea there doing marv, they only have to enforce there citizens to stay at gunpoint

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"It spells the end of the Iran nuclear deal.

They’ll be enriching uranium as fast as possible now.

Yes, Iran isn't the first country - and it won't be the last - to realise that the US attacks country after country, but never one in possession of nuclear weapons.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

If, as the US alleges, this guy was plotting to commit acts of violence in Iraq, why does the rule of law in Iraq not apply?

Arrest the guy, put him on trial.

That's how the rule of law works.

We called Putin a gangster for trying to kill Skripal in Salisbury.

This is no different.

The behaviour of a gangster state.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

If you genuinely think that the best situation for world peace is keeping a man who butchered as many civilians as Qassem Soleimani did alive then I suggest your definition of the word peace needs some fine tuning.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It spells the end of the Iran nuclear deal.

They’ll be enriching uranium as fast as possible now.

Yes, Iran isn't the first country - and it won't be the last - to realise that the US attacks country after country, but never one in possession of nuclear weapons."
.

If I were Iranian or North Korean I'd prefer my governments stop being complete bellends and concentrate on betterment of its citizens the USA is far less of a problem to them or there lives than there own government.

The hard facts are that Iran was far more prosperous and free under the British Shar arrangement.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *heHookyMonsterMan
over a year ago

Liverpool

"If you genuinely think that the best situation for world peace is keeping a man who butchered as many civilians as Qassem Soleimani did alive then I suggest your definition of the word peace needs some fine tuning."

Yep, happy with that. Sadly 'Si Vis Pacem parabellum' has never been more true than in the last twenty years or so.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

The hard facts are that Iran was far more prosperous and free under the British Shar arrangement.

You believe that because it reflects your experience of living in a country with relative freedom of expression.

Iran is more open than, say, Saudi Arabia, but the history of resistance to US aggression is long and entrenched since the CIA suppressed the first attempt at democracy in the 1950s to install the Shah.

In North Korea, you are conditioned from the moment you are born to believe in absolute loyalty to the supreme ruler.

The idea that people brought up in either country might think like people brought up in the UK is misplaced.

Hatred of the US is deep and entrenched. Meddle with that at your peril.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It spells the end of the Iran nuclear deal.

They’ll be enriching uranium as fast as possible now.

Yes, Iran isn't the first country - and it won't be the last - to realise that the US attacks country after country, but never one in possession of nuclear weapons."

It’s prudent and sensible while trump is sabre rattling to upgrade your delivery system for the nuclear payload as they have done and up the enrichment program.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

The shah was a pro-western dictatorship.

Attempts by the people of Iran to bring about democratic reform were crushed by the CIA.

Here's a question for you.

What do the Parliaments of the UK and Iran have in common, that no other has?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

The key thing to understand is there are two Islamic states vying for supremacy.

Saudi sees itself as the head of the Sunni sect and Iran sees itself as the head of the Shia sect.

Both use proxies across the Middle East to further their quest for religious supremacy.

Think of the blood-letting between Catholicism and Protestantism in Europe for centuries, and you get an idea of the sectarian war taking place.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

Im sure there'll be a few sleeper cells waking up all over the western world. I'll be giving London a miss for the foreseeable.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

A really stupid thing to do will only escalate tensions,if it was the other way round,the US would invade Iran.

We should not support the US over this

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"A really stupid thing to do will only escalate tensions,if it was the other way round,the US would invade Iran.

We should not support the US over this"

I agree with you, Emma.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

Pull everything out of the Middle East let them crack on wash our hands of them it’s a basket case always as always will be

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Well, guess what?

The division, the separation of ethnicities on either side of borders . . .

D'ya know who came up with that idea?

The pair who drew the map of the Middle East and fucked the place over?

Mark Sykes and François Georges-Picot.

Two diplomats.

One from Britain and one from France.

If you want to know the cause of the trouble, look no further than that pair.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *moothCriminal_xMan
over a year ago

Redditch

I thought assasinations of foreign officials was illegal outside of a war situation - you cant just bomb people you dont like based on theor foreign policy if you arent at war...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Trump doesn't do rules.

Not unless he's written them.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

The leader of Iran said you can’t do anything.

Not a good idea when you tell Trump that. He sees everything as a personal challenge/dent in his pride.

Glad I got my ass out the Emirates last month.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

"I thought assasinations of foreign officials was illegal outside of a war situation - you cant just bomb people you dont like based on theor foreign policy if you arent at war..."

He's a terrorist in the eyes of trump. He's fair game.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

"Well, guess what?

The division, the separation of ethnicities on either side of borders . . .

D'ya know who came up with that idea?

The pair who drew the map of the Middle East and fucked the place over?

Mark Sykes and François Georges-Picot.

Two diplomats.

One from Britain and one from France.

If you want to know the cause of the trouble, look no further than that pair.

"
and how long ago was that

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"I thought assasinations of foreign officials was illegal outside of a war situation - you cant just bomb people you dont like based on theor foreign policy if you arent at war..."

it is.....

unfortunately its nots a case of if... but when, and where its going to come from... lebanon, yemen, bahrain, towards saudi, or israel, or qatar.....

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Escalation of conflict is surely a known and predicted consequence. It's definitely a strategy to try to help his re-election imo, including deflection away from the impeachment. I'm not predicting a great couple of years.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *humper9erMan
over a year ago

Rocklin

Billy boy was getting a bj as he launched a couple missle's at nothing! What a numb nut president!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I thought assasinations of foreign officials was illegal outside of a war situation - you cant just bomb people you dont like based on theor foreign policy if you arent at war...

He's a terrorist in the eyes of trump. He's fair game."

So is trump in the eyes of many in the Middle East

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *agermeisterMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"Pull everything out of the Middle East let them crack on wash our hands of them it’s a basket case always as always will be"

Pity we didn't adopt that strategy pre Iraq #2

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"Well, guess what?

The division, the separation of ethnicities on either side of borders . . .

D'ya know who came up with that idea?

The pair who drew the map of the Middle East and fucked the place over?

Mark Sykes and François Georges-Picot.

Two diplomats.

One from Britain and one from France.

If you want to know the cause of the trouble, look no further than that pair.

and how long ago was that "

Circa 1917

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Well, guess what?

The division, the separation of ethnicities on either side of borders . . .

D'ya know who came up with that idea?

The pair who drew the map of the Middle East and fucked the place over?

Mark Sykes and François Georges-Picot.

Two diplomats.

One from Britain and one from France.

If you want to know the cause of the trouble, look no further than that pair.

and how long ago was that

Circa 1917 "
.

Must have been one long utopia before that I guess

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Im sure there'll be a few sleeper cells waking up all over the western world. I'll be giving London a miss for the foreseeable. "

Definitely, I won't be going back there for some time now.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh and what is interesting and the point has been touched on is the argument over whether the UK should spend the billions it does on Nuclear weapons and the reasons behind doing so. Many anti-nuke camp people argue that weaponised states wouldn't bully none weaponised states but just look at America.....

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The hard facts are that Iran was far more prosperous and free under the British Shar arrangement.

You believe that because it reflects your experience of living in a country with relative freedom of expression.

In North Korea, you are conditioned from the moment you are born to believe in absolute loyalty to the supreme ruler.

The idea that people brought up in either country might think like people brought up in the UK is misplaced.

Hatred of the US is deep and entrenched. Meddle with that at your peril."
.

Oh yea and the South Koreans have done appalling under US control haven't they?.

Only under a leftists revisionist idea of history would anybody think these two countries could have been worse today than under there own revolutionary government.

The USA may be alot of things but given the choice today the vast majority of both Nations given free will would choose the USA over it's own bunch of useless, corrupt, dictatorial, murdering, toss pots they've had for the last forty years.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

"Well, guess what?

The division, the separation of ethnicities on either side of borders . . .

D'ya know who came up with that idea?

The pair who drew the map of the Middle East and fucked the place over?

Mark Sykes and François Georges-Picot.

Two diplomats.

One from Britain and one from France.

If you want to know the cause of the trouble, look no further than that pair.

and how long ago was that

Circa 1917 "
over a hundred yrs ago what would you like U.K. to do about that spend overseas aid there as compo or wait they have been for yrs or would they prefer an apology ?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

I said no such thing.

I just said this fuck-up called the Middle East is the creation of two men - Sykes and Pilcot.

They carved it up in the interests of Britain and France, not the people who lived there.

We have been living with the consequences ever since.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Oh yea and the South Koreans have done appalling under US control haven't they?.

Only under a leftists revisionist idea of history would anybody think these two countries could have been worse today than under there own revolutionary government.

You completely misunderstand my point.

If you are brought up in one of these countries, your outlook is very different from someone brought up in this country.

Freedom means very different things to very different people.

If you want to understand the consequences, understand the people before you poke 'em in the eye with a big stick.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

"I said no such thing.

I just said this fuck-up called the Middle East is the creation of two men - Sykes and Pilcot.

They carved it up in the interests of Britain and France, not the people who lived there.

We have been living with the consequences ever since.

"
so before they carved it up it was a peaceful place then they weren’t killing eachother ?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

WW1 was about empires capturing empires.

The British and the French captured the Ottoman Empire from the Turks.

That was the caliphate.

A benign caliphate that allowed different religions to flourish.

Look it up.

Then the British and French chopped it all up.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Why do you think the Middle East invented circa 1917 has such straight lines on the borders?

Cos those two twats - Sykes and Pilcot - sat in an office in Paris and took a ruler to the map.

Smashed up the Ottoman Empire and divided it between Britain and France.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

1916, it was.

While the British and French were promising the tribes their independence if they turned on the Turks, the UK and France had another plan in place.

A secret treaty.

So the tribes got on their horses and kicked the arse of the Turks.

Only to be shafted when the war was over by the British and French who seized the territory for themselves.

Look it up.

It's what imperialism is about.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I thought assasinations of foreign officials was illegal outside of a war situation - you cant just bomb people you dont like based on theor foreign policy if you arent at war...

He's a terrorist in the eyes of trump. He's fair game."

Would people be comfortable if someone high up in the British military was labelled as a Terrorist by the Iranians, and then assassinated while he was in another country?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sooner or later , Iran will have to be neutralised...... permanently

Blimey. A lot of people live in Iran.

I for one, condemn your call for genocide.

You mentioned genocide.i didn’t. Typical labour supporter distortion of what has been actually said . "

Not a Labour supporter. And even if I was. Not relevant.

You're calling for Iran to be "neutralised permanently". Sounds pretty genocidal to me.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

i guess he must be too young to remember Iraq

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *heHookyMonsterMan
over a year ago

Liverpool

"Sooner or later , Iran will have to be neutralised...... permanently

Blimey. A lot of people live in Iran.

I for one, condemn your call for genocide.

You mentioned genocide.i didn’t. Typical labour supporter distortion of what has been actually said .

Not a Labour supporter. And even if I was. Not relevant.

You're calling for Iran to be "neutralised permanently". Sounds pretty genocidal to me.

I'd have read that as stopping Iran from being a clear and present danger rather than genocide, but I could be wrong.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sooner or later , Iran will have to be neutralised...... permanently

Blimey. A lot of people live in Iran.

I for one, condemn your call for genocide.

You mentioned genocide.i didn’t. Typical labour supporter distortion of what has been actually said .

Not a Labour supporter. And even if I was. Not relevant.

You're calling for Iran to be "neutralised permanently". Sounds pretty genocidal to me.

I'd have read that as stopping Iran from being a clear and present danger rather than genocide, but I could be wrong. "

Nah I'd agree with you on that, overthrow the leadership I took it as.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

And if the Germans had decapitated Churchill and his Cabinet, do you think the Brits would have rolled over and gone: "Phew! Thank fook they're gone!"

Seriously, some of you guys are unbelievable.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *heHookyMonsterMan
over a year ago

Liverpool

"And if the Germans had decapitated Churchill and his Cabinet, do you think the Brits would have rolled over and gone: "Phew! Thank fook they're gone!"

Seriously, some of you guys are unbelievable.

Having seen conflict first hand there are always lots of perspectives to look at things from - and all tend to be valid one way or another. The waters are almost always murky and there's rarely a straightforward solution to anything. Idealism goes out of the window once you've seen it, so you tend to try and keep it simple, do your bit as best you can and hope it all comes good - but it rarely does in too many respects, no matter the approach or the outcome. There's always a feeling it could have gone better.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Every population is groomed by the institutions that govern them for their loyalty to the "state" - aka as the ruling class.

That's as true here as it is in Iran, Germany, North Korea or any country you care to name.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *heHookyMonsterMan
over a year ago

Liverpool

[Removed by poster at 03/01/20 22:52:02]

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *an For YouMan
over a year ago

belfast/holywood

"If, as the US alleges, this guy was plotting to commit acts of violence in Iraq, why does the rule of law in Iraq not apply?

Arrest the guy, put him on trial.

That's how the rule of law works.

We called Putin a gangster for trying to kill Skripal in Salisbury.

This is no different.

The behaviour of a gangster state.

The rule of law also also applies to self defence . If someone is pointing a gun at you , you don’t need to give a warning before you shoot them dead before they get a chance to pull the trigger. If you believe that someone is trying to kill you, all bets are off . Shoot the fucker dead first

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *heHookyMonsterMan
over a year ago

Liverpool

"Every population is groomed by the institutions that govern them for their loyalty to the "state" - aka as the ruling class.

That's as true here as it is in Iran, Germany, North Korea or any country you care to name."

True to some degree, but evil only gets truly brought home when you experience it first hand. The idealism goes out of the window and all that's left is the redoubled determination to remove it. Not saying I'm sticking up for Trump by any means, but I'll certainly never see things in black and white again. Seeing things through a newspaper or a 42"screen is very different to doing it in person and often changes the perspective completely.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *an For YouMan
over a year ago

belfast/holywood

"Pull everything out of the Middle East let them crack on wash our hands of them it’s a basket case always as always will be"

Yep very true. The only problem is a small matter of oil

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *an For YouMan
over a year ago

belfast/holywood

"WW1 was about empires capturing empires.

The British and the French captured the Ottoman Empire from the Turks.

That was the caliphate.

A benign caliphate that allowed different religions to flourish.

Look it up.

Then the British and French chopped it all up.

Don’t forget the Romans .... oh yeah and those Normans too

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *an For YouMan
over a year ago

belfast/holywood

"I thought assasinations of foreign officials was illegal outside of a war situation - you cant just bomb people you dont like based on theor foreign policy if you arent at war...

He's a terrorist in the eyes of trump. He's fair game.

Would people be comfortable if someone high up in the British military was labelled as a Terrorist by the Iranians, and then assassinated while he was in another country?"

Ridiculous as always.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *an For YouMan
over a year ago

belfast/holywood

"Sooner or later , Iran will have to be neutralised...... permanently

Blimey. A lot of people live in Iran.

I for one, condemn your call for genocide.

You mentioned genocide.i didn’t. Typical labour supporter distortion of what has been actually said .

Not a Labour supporter. And even if I was. Not relevant.

You're calling for Iran to be "neutralised permanently". Sounds pretty genocidal to me.

More crap. Open your ears

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *an For YouMan
over a year ago

belfast/holywood

"i guess he must be too young to remember Iraq

Gulf 1 was a turkey shoot

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *heHookyMonsterMan
over a year ago

Liverpool

"Sooner or later , Iran will have to be neutralised...... permanently

Blimey. A lot of people live in Iran.

I for one, condemn your call for genocide.

You mentioned genocide.i didn’t. Typical labour supporter distortion of what has been actually said .

Not a Labour supporter. And even if I was. Not relevant.

You're calling for Iran to be "neutralised permanently". Sounds pretty genocidal to me.

I'd have read that as stopping Iran from being a clear and present danger rather than genocide, but I could be wrong.

Nah I'd agree with you on that, overthrow the leadership I took it as. "

Glad it wasn't just me

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sooner or later , Iran will have to be neutralised...... permanently

Blimey. A lot of people live in Iran.

I for one, condemn your call for genocide.

You mentioned genocide.i didn’t. Typical labour supporter distortion of what has been actually said .

Not a Labour supporter. And even if I was. Not relevant.

You're calling for Iran to be "neutralised permanently". Sounds pretty genocidal to me.

More crap. Open your ears"

What's "crap"?

I'm just making fun of the utter nonsense you constantly spout.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *an For YouMan
over a year ago

belfast/holywood

"Sooner or later , Iran will have to be neutralised...... permanently

Blimey. A lot of people live in Iran.

I for one, condemn your call for genocide.

You mentioned genocide.i didn’t. Typical labour supporter distortion of what has been actually said .

Not a Labour supporter. And even if I was. Not relevant.

You're calling for Iran to be "neutralised permanently". Sounds pretty genocidal to me.

I'd have read that as stopping Iran from being a clear and present danger rather than genocide, but I could be wrong. "

Thank you. At least there’s a few in here with an ounce of common sense . It would take some people on here to be at the Arena, 7/11, London Bridge, Paris, Madrid and see what they would be saying then. Supporting the killers no doubts as their families get murdered. Hmmm????

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *an For YouMan
over a year ago

belfast/holywood

"Sooner or later , Iran will have to be neutralised...... permanently

Blimey. A lot of people live in Iran.

I for one, condemn your call for genocide.

You mentioned genocide.i didn’t. Typical labour supporter distortion of what has been actually said .

Not a Labour supporter. And even if I was. Not relevant.

You're calling for Iran to be "neutralised permanently". Sounds pretty genocidal to me.

More crap. Open your ears

What's "crap"?

I'm just making fun of the utter nonsense you constantly spout."

You talk total crap. Another apologist for terrorists right here. Pathetic

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *heHookyMonsterMan
over a year ago

Liverpool

"Sooner or later , Iran will have to be neutralised...... permanently

Blimey. A lot of people live in Iran.

I for one, condemn your call for genocide.

You mentioned genocide.i didn’t. Typical labour supporter distortion of what has been actually said .

Not a Labour supporter. And even if I was. Not relevant.

You're calling for Iran to be "neutralised permanently". Sounds pretty genocidal to me.

I'd have read that as stopping Iran from being a clear and present danger rather than genocide, but I could be wrong.

Sadly Liberal idealism sees these people as those we can 'sit down and have tea with'. Please believe me when I say we can't. They don't think like normal humans and put no value on human life whatsoever. They kill randomly and with only one goal in mind - to terrorise and undermine. If a load of young kids die at a concert that's fine with them as in their twisted minds they can lay the blame off on us for voting our own governments in, therefore making us guilty in their eyes. They would say the blood of the dead was on the hands of the children's own parents. You can't reason with that.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ammskiMan
over a year ago

lytham st.annes

"Sooner or later , Iran will have to be neutralised...... permanently

Blimey. A lot of people live in Iran.

I for one, condemn your call for genocide.

You mentioned genocide.i didn’t. Typical labour supporter distortion of what has been actually said .

Not a Labour supporter. And even if I was. Not relevant.

You're calling for Iran to be "neutralised permanently". Sounds pretty genocidal to me.

I'd have read that as stopping Iran from being a clear and present danger rather than genocide, but I could be wrong.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *an For YouMan
over a year ago

belfast/holywood

"Sooner or later , Iran will have to be neutralised...... permanently

Blimey. A lot of people live in Iran.

I for one, condemn your call for genocide.

You mentioned genocide.i didn’t. Typical labour supporter distortion of what has been actually said .

Not a Labour supporter. And even if I was. Not relevant.

You're calling for Iran to be "neutralised permanently". Sounds pretty genocidal to me.

I'd have read that as stopping Iran from being a clear and present danger rather than genocide, but I could be wrong.

Sadly too many people on here would open the doors for the bad guys rather than do something to protect themselves or their families. Personally I shoot first and ask questions later

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ildjianMan
over a year ago

London

You mean the plane they shot down by accident because it was flying at them and not responding to radio communications, which the US eventually paid substantial financial reparations for?.

Yea I guess I can see why you'd want to car bomb innocents for that.

An airbus, on its scheduled flight path, from Tehran to Dubai via Bandar Abbas, detonated in mid-air by a US Navy warship.

A dreadful mistake to make.

290 dead, including 66 children.

What did the US do?

Court-martial the skipper?

No, it gave the entire crew a medal and a ticker-tape parade through New York on its return home.

"I don't care what the facts are - I will never apologise for the United States," said the vice-president, George Bush.

It took 8 years and a case at the International Court before the US expressed any sort of regret.

By which stage 270 people had died in retaliation at Lockerbie.

So yes I fully expect quid pro quo again, against some high-ranking US official somewhere in the world.

It is inevitable.

This is the second time I can recall you mentioning this incident and you are again misquoting Bush despite being corrected last time. Bush wasn't talking about the Vincennes incident when he said he wouldn't apologise.

The incident was a major fuck up but the ship had previously been under attack and the airbus did not respond to repeated contact.

The captain of the ship wasn't given a medal because of anything to do with the incident. All servicemen and women receive medals when returning from a tour of duty and the crew of The Vincennes were no different.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *heHookyMonsterMan
over a year ago

Liverpool

"Sooner or later , Iran will have to be neutralised...... permanently

Blimey. A lot of people live in Iran.

I for one, condemn your call for genocide.

You mentioned genocide.i didn’t. Typical labour supporter distortion of what has been actually said .

Not a Labour supporter. And even if I was. Not relevant.

You're calling for Iran to be "neutralised permanently". Sounds pretty genocidal to me.

I'd have read that as stopping Iran from being a clear and present danger rather than genocide, but I could be wrong.

Sadly too many people on here would open the doors for the bad guys rather than do something to protect themselves or their families. Personally I shoot first and ask questions later "

I'd say we'd do what we have to do, but agree actions would be justified.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You mean the plane they shot down by accident because it was flying at them and not responding to radio communications, which the US eventually paid substantial financial reparations for?.

Yea I guess I can see why you'd want to car bomb innocents for that.

An airbus, on its scheduled flight path, from Tehran to Dubai via Bandar Abbas, detonated in mid-air by a US Navy warship.

A dreadful mistake to make.

290 dead, including 66 children.

What did the US do?

Court-martial the skipper?

No, it gave the entire crew a medal and a ticker-tape parade through New York on its return home.

"I don't care what the facts are - I will never apologise for the United States," said the vice-president, George Bush.

It took 8 years and a case at the International Court before the US expressed any sort of regret.

By which stage 270 people had died in retaliation at Lockerbie.

So yes I fully expect quid pro quo again, against some high-ranking US official somewhere in the world.

It is inevitable.

The incident was a major fuck up but the ship had previously been under attack and the airbus did not respond to repeated contact.

"
.

There's no point arguing with the religious dogmatic types, there entrenched in there views of the world.

I pointed to the exact same thing but alas he wasn't interested in facts, just dogma.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"Well, guess what?

The division, the separation of ethnicities on either side of borders . . .

D'ya know who came up with that idea?

The pair who drew the map of the Middle East and fucked the place over?

Mark Sykes and François Georges-Picot.

Two diplomats.

One from Britain and one from France.

If you want to know the cause of the trouble, look no further than that pair.

and how long ago was that

Circa 1917 .

Must have been one long utopia before that I guess

I don't know about a utopia but before that most of the Middle East was part of the Ottoman (Turkish) Empire and had been for hundreds of years. Before that most of the Middle East was part of the Byzantium Empire, also known as the Eastern Roman Empire. Basically all the current problems in the Middle East come as a direct result of the Peace settlement after WW1.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why do you think the Middle East invented circa 1917 has such straight lines on the borders?

Cos those two twats - Sykes and Pilcot - sat in an office in Paris and took a ruler to the map.

Smashed up the Ottoman Empire and divided it between Britain and France.

"
. Perhaps you could tell us in your best leftist I hate the West bollocks why the ottoman empire started on the Armenian genocide long before either of those two "twats" got there and drew straight lines?.

Ps the ottomans lost a world war, the victors get to say fuck you were doing whatever we want, it's a perk of winning.

If you don't like it try winning instead of losing

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"Why do you think the Middle East invented circa 1917 has such straight lines on the borders?

Cos those two twats - Sykes and Pilcot - sat in an office in Paris and took a ruler to the map.

Smashed up the Ottoman Empire and divided it between Britain and France.

. Perhaps you could tell us in your best leftist I hate the West bollocks why the ottoman empire started on the Armenian genocide long before either of those two "twats" got there and drew straight lines?.

Ps the ottomans lost a world war, the victors get to say fuck you were doing whatever we want, it's a perk of winning.

If you don't like it try winning instead of losing

It's nothing to do with left or right just history. The Ottoman Empire ruled over most of the Middle East, North Africa and South East Europe from the 1300's to 1918. Was it always a force for good? No, especially towards the end (Arminian genocide was in 1914 to 1922). Was it a force for stability in the Middle East for over 600 years? Yes.

The Ottoman Empire was finally dissolved in 1922 with the formation of the modern state of Turkey.

It's somewhat ironic that the Middle East's problem of today and the turmoil it is quite clearly in can traced directly back to the actions of one man in Sarajevo in 1914 who shot first and never got the chance to ask questions later.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Best fill up quick. Oil prices rising"

After Brexit oil will be cheaper

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

" your best leftist I hate the West bollocks "

Have your Tory chums closed all the libraries in your neighbourhood?

If not, pop down and borrow a history book.

You might just start to come across as informed instead of rude and ignorant.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Given the role played by Iran in flushing out ISIS from Iraq and Syria, it beggars belief how some in here want now to depict Iran as a sponsor of ISIS fanatics in the UK.

Fake news that even Trump might think twice about before spouting.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

“I will never apologize for the United States — I don’t care what the facts are. ... I’m not an apologize-for-America kind of guy.” — Comments during an Aug. 2, 1988, campaign stop about the USS Vincennes’ mistakenly downing a commercial Iran Air flight, killing 290 civilians."

- CNBC

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

i hadn't realised until now the US also executed two top figures in the Iraqi military in the same attack.

Trump has pissed off both Iraq and Iran in one fell swoop.

Way to go, Trump.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"Sooner or later , Iran will have to be neutralised...... permanently

Blimey. A lot of people live in Iran.

I for one, condemn your call for genocide.

You mentioned genocide.i didn’t. Typical labour supporter distortion of what has been actually said .

Not a Labour supporter. And even if I was. Not relevant.

You're calling for Iran to be "neutralised permanently". Sounds pretty genocidal to me.

I'd have read that as stopping Iran from being a clear and present danger rather than genocide, but I could be wrong.

What have Arena, 7/11, London Bridge, Paris and Madrid got to do with Iran?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

The ISIS ideology is an extreme interpretation of the Sunni teaching. Sunni is rooted in Saudi Arabia, not Iran.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The Middle East is simple. Better the despot dictator you know than the despot dictator you don't.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

"WW1 was about empires capturing empires.

The British and the French captured the Ottoman Empire from the Turks.

That was the caliphate.

A benign caliphate that allowed different religions to flourish.

Look it up.

Then the British and French chopped it all up.

Don’t forget the Romans .... oh yeah and those Normans too"
have the Danes said sorry for the Vikings invading the U.K. yet ?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ildjianMan
over a year ago

London

- CNBC

Quote is from the lead up to the 1988 election. It was a routinely used phrase and used many times prior to the incident.

Bush is first recorded to use the phrase in 1980.

The often quoted phrase from the August campaign is attributed to be about Vincennes because of the timing but it was the same rhetoric he'd been boring everyone with for years. It was not the answer to a question about the Vincennes incident.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

"WW1 was about empires capturing empires.

The British and the French captured the Ottoman Empire from the Turks.

That was the caliphate.

A benign caliphate that allowed different religions to flourish.

Look it up.

Then the British and French chopped it all up.

Don’t forget the Romans .... oh yeah and those Normans too have the Danes said sorry for the Vikings invading the U.K. yet ?"

They were suffering from a psychiatric condition at the time, in many ways they are the real victims, and we had it coming. So "the Guardian" said anyway.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *Man1263Man
over a year ago

Stockport

Oh well, how sad, never mind!

Think people need to google Iran IED.

Maybe now people will think it's not a good idea to attack an embassy (who ever's it is) and plot to do more damage.

But see above

(Do I think it was a good move? No. Do I think it was a statement yes)

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

I believe the attack on the US embassy was a reaction to US air strikes, on Iraqi territory, that killed two dozen or so pro-Iranian Iraqis the previous weekend.

Which in turn had been a response to a militia's attack on a US compound that killed a US contractor.

Interesting that the Iraqi authorities stepped aside during the Embassy attack.

A likely consequence of all this mayhem is that the US - and the British - are asked to leave Iraq.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Quote is from the lead up to the 1988 election. It was a routinely used phrase and used many times prior to the incident.

Bush is first recorded to use the phrase in 1980.

I first came across the quote in a book about Lockerbie and the background to it.

There is no doubt Bush said it, just a few weeks after the slaughter of 290 civilians on a commercial airline, but the internet seems full of different interpretations about the context.

It certainly didn't help the image of the US in the eyes of those grieving.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *an For YouMan
over a year ago

belfast/holywood

Things will escalate. They need to. Iran needs it’s nose massively bloodied

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *Man1263Man
over a year ago

Stockport

"I believe the attack on the US embassy was a reaction to US air strikes, on Iraqi territory, that killed two dozen or so pro-Iranian Iraqis the previous weekend.

Which in turn had been a response to a militia's attack on a US compound that killed a US contractor.

Interesting that the Iraqi authorities stepped aside during the Embassy attack.

A likely consequence of all this mayhem is that the US - and the British - are asked to leave Iraq.

What you belive and what is the truth will be different.

You will find it has more to do than the embassy.

Again, google iran IED's.

Maybe have a look around and find out he wasn't actually that well liked, only by the leaders.

Not by the people.

But again, I don't think it was a good move, it has made the people of iran pull together where as in the last month they had massive demo's against the leadership (of which the man was in charge of destroying the protests and making people disappear).

But hey, Trump bad, their fore this was wrong etc etc

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ildjianMan
over a year ago

London

Quote is from the lead up to the 1988 election. It was a routinely used phrase and used many times prior to the incident.

Bush is first recorded to use the phrase in 1980.

I first came across the quote in a book about Lockerbie and the background to it.

There is no doubt Bush said it, just a few weeks after the slaughter of 290 civilians on a commercial airline, but the internet seems full of different interpretations about the context.

It certainly didn't help the image of the US in the eyes of those grieving."

There is no doubt Bush said it on many occasions. Mostly prior to the Iran incident. But. Regardless of what the different opinions are across the internet regarding context, he didn't mention the Iran incident, nor was he answering a question on it, during the speech. The CNBC quote you copied and pasted is also a hybrid of two different statements. One from February 1988 (the 'I'm not the apologising kinda guy' bit which was said 5 months before the Iranian incident) which was inserted into a section of the August speech.

Time Magazine and Newsweek both quoted the speech as a reference to the Vincennes incident in the lead up to the election. Newsweek held back until September before printing it.

Standard pre-election journalism.

Here is Bush's speech. 39:00 onwards will give you the build up to his misquoted statement in 42nd minute.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?3816-1/bush-ethnic-coalition-speech

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

They were suffering from a psychiatric condition at the time, in many ways they are the real victims, and we had it coming. So "the Guardian" said anyway. "

Most rational people recognise suicide as a mental illness.

Someone who is suicidal and wants to take others with them - be it the German Wings pilot or the Aria Grande bomber - probably fits the definition of criminally insane.

When a killer cares not a jot for their own life, never mind anyone else's, they are very very difficult to defend against.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

And now the US has launched a major airstrike north of Baghdad. This escalates things even more.....

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Nothing like a bit of muslim blood-letting to impress the christian voters back home.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Nothing like a bit of muslim blood-letting to impress the christian voters back home."

Franklin Graham, son of evangelist Billy Graham, shared a Facebook message Friday supporting the airstrike on Soleimani.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *evil_u_knowMan
over a year ago

city

Kata'ib Hezbollah have said that Iraqi people, soldiers and police should stay clear of all American bases from Noon tomrrow.

That they will now actively target American soldiers.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

Did you see all the Iranians in London, and across the secular world having a vigil for the butcher? Wtf is wrong with these people?! Should germans start holding them on hitlers birthday? Ffs.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Did you see all the Iranians in London, and across the secular world having a vigil for the butcher? Wtf is wrong with these people?! Should germans start holding them on hitlers birthday? Ffs."

They did ,it became a national holiday in 1939.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

"Did you see all the Iranians in London, and across the secular world having a vigil for the butcher? Wtf is wrong with these people?! Should germans start holding them on hitlers birthday? Ffs.

They did ,it became a national holiday in 1939.

I haven't seen them doing it London lately...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"Did you see all the Iranians in London, and across the secular world having a vigil for the butcher? Wtf is wrong with these people?! Should germans start holding them on hitlers birthday? Ffs."

Because to many in the Shia world he was a hero, an Islamic James Bond pushing back against the forces of western imperialism.

You may not agree.

But the reality is Trump just poked a hornets' nest with a big stick.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

israel and previous US leaders had plenty opportunities to remove this geezer but always resisted because the consequences were deemed too grave.

"Incalculable" in the language of geopolitics.

Along comes Trump and . . .

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Nothing like a bit of muslim blood-letting to impress the christian voters back home."

Yup. Not voting for Trump now will be seen as unpatriotic and unAmerican.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

"Did you see all the Iranians in London, and across the secular world having a vigil for the butcher? Wtf is wrong with these people?! Should germans start holding them on hitlers birthday? Ffs.

Because to many in the Shia world he was a hero, an Islamic James Bond pushing back against the forces of western imperialism.

You may not agree.

But the reality is Trump just poked a hornets' nest with a big stick.

You'd think if they had that attitude, they wouldn't be living and working in secular societies.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"israel and previous US leaders had plenty opportunities to remove this geezer but always resisted because the consequences were deemed too grave.

"Incalculable" in the language of geopolitics.

Along comes Trump and . . ."

Trump doesn't care because nothing Trump does has consequences. The Democrats are the biggest wishy washy non do nothingers around. Amazed they even started impeachment at all.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

You'd think if they had that attitude, they wouldn't be living and working in secular societies. "

UK is a society of religious freedom - the freedom to choose your own religion, or none.

The other thing to keep in mind is this guy is one of two military commanders credited with eradicating the cancer that was ISIS.

That made him a hero.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You'd think if they had that attitude, they wouldn't be living and working in secular societies.

UK is a society of religious freedom - the freedom to choose your own religion, or none.

The other thing to keep in mind is this guy is one of two military commanders credited with eradicating the cancer that was ISIS.

That made him a hero."

Maybe Trump liked having ISIS around. America always has to have an enemy, be it the Japanese, Russia, the Muslim Nations, the Mexicans and most recently dishwashers and toilets.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Trump, of course, likes to tweet how he single-handedly took on the jihadis and won.

The reality is very different. Trump just murdered the generals who actually did take them on.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have visited a few countries all over the world, never been to America and the thing that holds me back from going is Americans, what a bunch of load mouth over opinated lot who think it is their right to police the world. The middle east has had wars with each other for centuries and will do so for centuries more, Western leaders have brought troubles to our own citizens by their greed and in particular American greed

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

Go to Colorado, it's quite nice. Don't go to Wyoming though, you'll hate it!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Rather go to Baghdad I think

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

"Rather go to Baghdad I think

Typical closed mind with preconceptions of an entire nation. Nice one!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am sure there are many many Americans that are OK guys but the problem would be if you visit the place there are far too many on the other hand that I would absolutely hate being in the company off. It is an egotistical race of people and not far off being one of the most corrupt nations

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *artyanna16TV/TS
over a year ago

seacroft

Threatening war crimes isnt the smartest deflection though is it.? Theses fuckers have turned the country, standing in the world , and traduced it to a wholly a laughing stock! But with an unstable reactionary with access to enough weapons to vapourise the whole rock, “it does have a kind of tragic actualisation to it this shit, its been predicted for over a couple of centuries, and i middle east , and trade wars , extreme right wing in power. The theocratic authoritarianism , showing itself , just fuels the belief that theirs is the chosen path , and tough to deviate from, i bet you never thought youd see someone like , johnsons rhetoric , looking incredibly significant off his potential direction in all this , and we really really dont want to go this way , do we, DO WE?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

"I am sure there are many many Americans that are OK guys but the problem would be if you visit the place there are far too many on the other hand that I would absolutely hate being in the company off. It is an egotistical race of people and not far off being one of the most corrupt nations"

You've never been. Are you basing your opinion on watching "Dallas"?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No never been but met quite a few and have relatives in the USA who have visited over the years, and the world is a small place these days what with twitter, youtube, American news channels so you can form an opinion of a country without having to visit it, or having to watch Dallas.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *artyanna16TV/TS
over a year ago

seacroft

I travelled virtually the length of the country a few years ago culminating with a night in the cells , before flying home, to be honest those fourteen hours or whatever , were more insightful than the previous five weeks

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *heHookyMonsterMan
over a year ago

Liverpool

"Rather go to Baghdad I think

I don't think you would, trust me!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I travelled virtually the length of the country a few years ago culminating with a night in the cells , before flying home, to be honest those fourteen hours or whatever , were more insightful than the previous five weeks "

Sounds like a Thomas Dolby song...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"I have visited a few countries all over the world, never been to America and the thing that holds me back from going is Americans, what a bunch of load mouth over opinated lot who think it is their right to police the world. The middle east has had wars with each other for centuries and will do so for centuries more, Western leaders have brought troubles to our own citizens by their greed and in particular American greed"
I have no idea how you can form an opinion of a country or its people without going there,it seems to me you are the over opinionated one slagging them off without even knowing them.I have lived and worked there as well as scotland and i can tell you i was made a lot more welcome in the usa.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 05/01/20 14:08:18]

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I replied in a previous post on how I formed my opinion, if your in love with the place that much why don't you go and live in the land of great and good ??

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well done I say

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well done I say

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Now trump threatens 52 targets if iran takes revenge he is doing the right thing

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Iraqi MPs have now passed a resolution to expel US troops..

The US is losing friends fast as this escalates..The Inevitable consequences of trumps actions.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The US has put out a call for all US citizens to get out of most of the Muddle Eastern countries. They seem to suspect any US citizen is now a target....

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

I do love humour out of a crisis. Some of the WW3 posts on Twitter and Insta are funny as f.

Anyway as you were

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Iraqi MPs have now passed a resolution to expel US troops..

The US is losing friends fast as this escalates..The Inevitable consequences of trumps actions."

Iraq & Iran vs USA

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 05/01/20 17:53:59]

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 05/01/20 17:53:55]

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *humper9erMan
over a year ago

Rocklin

Only an inexperienced person would say such. This General/Terrorist has been on the US radar for a long while now. He was planning a major strike against US and other forces! He has directed many strikes against soft targets, know they couldn't strike back!

Why is it that Obama could send dozens of missile's into areas with a lot of civilian casulties and he's a hero? Yet, When Trump sends 1 missile and kills the intended target with minimal casulties, he's a war monger??

"It just seems he woke up and decided someone should die. Quite terrifying when you think about it.

Fairly obviously a snap decision, as the US are today suggesting that their embassy staff should maybe leave. "

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The use of the words ‘imminent threat’ don’t mean what we this- it allies to the Bethlehem Doctrine which is only recognised by US and UK as a means to kill.

The general was NOT involved with 9/11, Saudis, friends of the US- nor was his country responsible for hundreds or thousands of dead US citizens. The strike that killed him is illegal and in the interests of the future, i think we need to do as much as we can to educate ourselves and not be blinded by lies from high places. We simply cannot let that happen.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"When Trump sends 1 missile and kills the intended target with minimal casulties, he's a war monger??

Six military people were killed, including the Iraqi general leading the fight against ISIS.

How to piss of Iran and Iraq in one fell swoop.

All previous US leaders, plus the Israelis, resisted this option because the consequences were said to be "incalculable".

Given that the Iraqi parliament has now declared the US is no longer welcome in Iraq, that seems pretty much like the green light for any Tom, Dick or Harry to have a pop at them.

Time to go home, folks.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Many will think it's a great idea, many will think it's a terrible idea but everyone will have to live with the consequences...

Sounds familiar....

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh no I always wanted to travel to Iraq and Iran as I hear the pubs and clubs are fantastic booze is cheap and the ladies walk around naked

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

"Oh no I always wanted to travel to Iraq and Iran as I hear the pubs and clubs are fantastic booze is cheap and the ladies walk around naked"

Was it there liberal attitude towards sex that interested you?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

It’s a great deflection from the impeachment story.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do love humour out of a crisis. Some of the WW3 posts on Twitter and Insta are funny as f.

Anyway as you were "

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *teveuk77Man
over a year ago

"I do love humour out of a crisis. Some of the WW3 posts on Twitter and Insta are funny as f.

Anyway as you were

Daily Express once again going on about WW3. They do it all the time whenever there is any kind of conflict. Anything for a headline.

Shame that their stupid readers believe the garbage that's written especially their EU lies.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *evil_u_knowMan
over a year ago

city

Well the US and UK will have to leave Iraq, and I guess Iraq will now take back any promises to pay America and the UK with oil.

It seems that whatever the average Iraqi persons view of the guy, none of them wanted the people fighting ISIS to be killed, and none of them want Iraq to be used to kill people from neighbour countries just cause America does not like them whenever they enter Iraq.

The only option open to Iraq is to run a mile from the situation.

It plays well for Russia, they now have their fingers in Syria, Iraq, Iran for the next generation or two.

Its probably good for me, cause I am in Ireland. Iran/Iraq/Syria don't have any problem with us, and with American intervention being removed they can stabalize, defeat isis, and not have crazies hiding among their migrants anymore.

Its bad for the UK as all that oil money promised by the US for helping them out is gone now.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately