FabSwingers.com forum: Scotts

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Do you actually want independence?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

* Scots

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"* Scots"

Sorry. Auto carrot.

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By *ungblackbullMan
over a year ago

scotland

"* Scots"

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"* Scots

Sorry. Auto carrot.

I did wonder why a thread about porridge is in the politics section

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Is your question aimed at people who identify as Scottish, or people who live in Scotland?

It's the latter who decide in any referendum.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"* Scots

Sorry. Auto carrot.

I did wonder why a thread about porridge is in the politics section

Hopefully we get a few Scots who wish to answer the question posed even so.

I keep hearing ‘I have a mandate to ask for another independence referendum’ so is that what the Scottish people actually want?

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

When I was growing up in Scotland in the 1970s and 1980s, the consensus was that independence would happen only when the SNP won most seats in a General Election, i.e. without a referendum.

The smartest move the SNP made, under Salmond, was to separate a vote for the SNP in elections from a vote for independence, by promising voters a separate say in a referendum.

That allowed people to vote for the SNP without necessarily voting for independence. Their vote surged.

I remember voting for the SNP, not because I wanted independence necessarily, but because they were head and shoulders above Labour when it came to domestic policies in the manifesto.

I left Scotland in 2012, so did not have a vote in the 2014 referendum.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"When I was growing up in Scotland in the 1970s and 1980s, the consensus was that independence would happen only when the SNP won most seats in a General Election, i.e. without a referendum.

The smartest move the SNP made, under Salmond, was to separate a vote for the SNP in elections from a vote for independence, by promising voters a separate say in a referendum.

That allowed people to vote for the SNP without necessarily voting for independence. Their vote surged.

I remember voting for the SNP, not because I wanted independence necessarily, but because they were head and shoulders above Labour when it came to domestic policies in the manifesto.

I left Scotland in 2012, so did not have a vote in the 2014 referendum.

This is more what I was asking.

I have several friends who are Scottish born and bred and non of them wanted independence last time.

Their Facebook posts at the time were very impassioned regarding staying as part of the uk.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is your question aimed at people who identify as Scottish, or people who live in Scotland?

It's the latter who decide in any referendum.

Surely it's aimed at people who would be qualified to vote in it lol

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

I have several friends who are Scottish born and bred and non of them wanted independence last time.

Their Facebook posts at the time were very impassioned regarding staying as part of the uk. "

Yes, it is a deeply divisive issue.

I remember being in Edinburgh the weekend before the referendum when 10,000 from the various Orange orders in Scotland, Ireland and England marched through the city in support of the union.

It left me feeling distinctly queasy seeing that.

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By *V-AliceTV/TS
over a year ago

Ayr

"Do you actually want independence?

I do - but I'm currently still part of a minority.

Until more than 50% of Scots vote for the SNP, there's no genuine mandate.

Clearly, we keep denying the Tories a majority of MPs/MSPs in our country; but that's not the same as most Scots wanting to leave the Union.

If, in 2021, the SNP secure more than 50% of the vote in the Scottish Parliamentary election, that certainly will be a mandate for IndyRef2.

However, there's no guarantee that will happen; or, even if it does, that Boris won't just front it out and keep denying a Section 30 order. I think he probably would.

I think independence will, eventually, come. I'm not sure I'll live to see it.

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By *teveuk77Man
over a year ago

"Do you actually want independence?

I do - but I'm currently still part of a minority.

Until more than 50% of Scots vote for the SNP, there's no genuine mandate.

Clearly, we keep denying the Tories a majority of MPs/MSPs in our country; but that's not the same as most Scots wanting to leave the Union.

If, in 2021, the SNP secure more than 50% of the vote in the Scottish Parliamentary election, that certainly will be a mandate for IndyRef2.

However, there's no guarantee that will happen; or, even if it does, that Boris won't just front it out and keep denying a Section 30 order. I think he probably would.

I think independence will, eventually, come. I'm not sure I'll live to see it."

Disagree with this. Just because less than 50% of Scots vote SNP doesn't mean that there isn't a majority who want independence. There are SNP voters who want to remain in the Union and Labour/Tory/Lib Dem voters who want to leave.

I voted Labour. I want Scotland to remain in the UK and in the EU. However, given the choice now, with the direction that Boris Johnson will likely take us, I may vote Yes in a 2nd referendum. It very much depends on what Boris Johnson actually does. If he extends the withdrawal agreements and negotiates a deal that is considered a soft Brexit then I will lean towards No. If we leave hard brexit, I'd rather leave the Union and rejoin the EU which I think will be relatively easy to negotiate with Brussels and the other Member states INCLUDING Spain.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

I agree about Spain.

The prospect of the United Kingdom collapsing will mollify Spain. It will be thinking more about Gibraltar than the Catalans, I think.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do you actually want independence?

I do - but I'm currently still part of a minority.

Until more than 50% of Scots vote for the SNP, there's no genuine mandate.

Clearly, we keep denying the Tories a majority of MPs/MSPs in our country; but that's not the same as most Scots wanting to leave the Union.

If, in 2021, the SNP secure more than 50% of the vote in the Scottish Parliamentary election, that certainly will be a mandate for IndyRef2.

However, there's no guarantee that will happen; or, even if it does, that Boris won't just front it out and keep denying a Section 30 order. I think he probably would.

I think independence will, eventually, come. I'm not sure I'll live to see it.

Exactly, just because a majority vote for a certain party does not automatically mean they all support one aspect of that parties vision.

Likewise many will like one parties vision for one aspect but dislike the rest so they vote against that party.

The only way to get a true reflection of public opinion on one single issue is to hold a referendum.

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By *V-AliceTV/TS
over a year ago

Ayr

"Disagree with this. Just because less than 50% of Scots vote SNP doesn't mean that there isn't a majority who want independence. There are SNP voters who want to remain in the Union and Labour/Tory/Lib Dem voters who want to leave."

I get your point. However, there are only two political parties who campaign for an independent Scotland, the SNP and The Scottish Greens. The other parties are all opposed to independence, even if some of their voters might want it; and if they do, why not vote for a party committed to delivering it?

The fact remains that until over 50% of Scots give their assent by voting for a party intent on leaving the UK, independence will not happen.

That could, eventually, be the case - but it isn't yet.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The Westminster vote was not the same as an independence vote.

I don’t have a UK vote so had no say.. however I have Scottish relatives and have lived there on and off for long enough to consider myself well-enough informed as to opinion.

In a referendum, people living in a Scotland would have the right to vote. That is not the same as ‘Scots’.

Many I know voted for a party other that the SNP but support independence. Quite a few work colleagues are primed to move businesses north should Scotland become independent. Many would rather live north because of the fairer and more balanced life and workplace that Scotland would offer.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Yes, I get the impression Scotland prefers the Scandinavian model of social democracy, to the English model of "I'm alright, Jack".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The other parties are all opposed to independence, even if some of their voters might want it; and if they do, why not vote for a party committed to delivering it?

Because voters might only agree with that one aspect of independence of that party but could disagree with a whole raft of other ideas of theirs that make them unable to vote for them.

Not everyone votes for a political party based on one policy, some will yes, many will not.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Whilst I want Independence for Scotland, that's not just from Westminster, but from Brussels aswell. How can the SNP justify swapping one master for another baffles me.

I'd rather see Scots being given the opportunity to vote on joining the EEA/EFTA to retain Freedom of movement, trade with EU countries, but having the ability to choose whether or not to pass EU legislation and directives into our own law, in Norway, they passed 90% of EU laws and roughly 20% of legislation and directives in their own parliament.

The SNP use the Brexit argument for independence, however 1.6m Scots voted for remain, 1.1m voted to leave the EU, the Leave vote won by 1.4m votes throughout the UK, so it can be argued Scotland actually won the Leave campaign for the UK.

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By *essica jamiesonWoman
over a year ago

edinburgh

I live in Edinburgh & absolutly i want independence....

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"I live in Edinburgh & absolutly i want independence...."

Independence from whom or what?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The SNP use the Brexit argument for independence, however 1.6m Scots voted for remain, 1.1m voted to leave the EU, the Leave vote won by 1.4m votes throughout the UK, so it can be argued Scotland actually won the Leave campaign for the UK. "

62% of the Scottish vote was to remain in the EU

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

People forget the Scots came from Ireland. Maybe they should join with them and take NI along too?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why? It's legal politicking. Was it because they ain't cool?

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By *he feckersCouple
over a year ago

rosyth

"Do you actually want independence?

"
Yes

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"People forget the Scots came from Ireland. Maybe they should join with them and take NI along too?"

Well, the Scots were just one of the tribes who inhabited the territory before it all came together as one.

The Britons, the Gaels, the Picts, the Angles, the Scots, the Norse . . and more, I'm sure.

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By *lixerMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I live in Edinburgh & absolutly i want independence....

Independence from whom or what? "

Maybe change "independence" to "normal" then. I want my nation to be a normal nation/state. Just the same as most other countries. Not better, not worse, just the same.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

What would Scotland do for money?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In al” my time reading posts on the political forum, this is right up there with the most stupid.

No wonder Scotland seeks self-determination.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

"I live in Edinburgh & absolutly i want independence...."

What improvements would you expect to see?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the recent election has shown how divided the UK is. The fact so many people rejected a man who was in it for the people and went for a proven liar shows that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He was in it for certain people. The rest got scared of just how much lighter their pockets would get.

Pick your candidate to fit the statement....

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"Whilst I want Independence for Scotland, that's not just from Westminster, but from Brussels aswell. How can the SNP justify swapping one master for another baffles me.... "

Two years of pre Brexit referendum debate, three and a half years since the referendum and still we get people saying stuff like this???

I mean really????

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By *entralscotscpl7Couple
over a year ago

Falkirk

Nope. I voted No in the last referendum.

It would turn into a bigger cluster f@#k than Brexit as it will be assumed Scotland can just waltz into the European Union with no issues.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Alex Salmond's r*pe trial is scheduled for Spring 2020.

How that influences public opinion is anyone's guess.

2021 is the key date, I think.

If the Nats get a big result in the Scottish election - and, remember, this could be after a No Deal exit from Europe - the UK Government position becomes unsustainable.

I know some in the SNP want to make that election a de facto referendum, but I think Ms Sturgeon is wise enough to keep the two things separate.

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By *wosmilersCouple
over a year ago

Heathrowish

Good luck to the Scots if they want independence from the rest of the UK.

Good luck if they negotiate an entry deal into the EU, meeting the key economic tests required.

Good luck if they can support themselves without resorting to the Barnett formula.

Good luck if they can afford to run their residual infrastructures.

They should definitely have another bash as there is a strong showing for "nationalism" as an alternative to Brexit.

Good luck.....but be careful what you wish for.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Trying not to find that condescending.....but failing.

I find that the people in Scotland know a great deal more about the political situation, the ifs and buts, the economic situation that anyone south of the border.

Probably that is because of selective media reporting, especially the fallacy about money flowing north being greater than that flowing south. I have faith that the Scottish nation ( it’s not just Scots who will vote in a referendum) has the intelligence to know what they are doing. One thing for sure, they are, in the main, a lot more politically savvy and aware than others in the UK and having been subjected through the years to the rump end of Conservative policies and basic lies- note in point, the Big Promise at the last independence referendum- they are a cynical bunch. That’s a very tough gig for a political party to influence once they’ve shafted the electorate so many times.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Whilst I want Independence for Scotland, that's not just from Westminster, but from Brussels aswell. How can the SNP justify swapping one master for another baffles me....

Two years of pre Brexit referendum debate, three and a half years since the referendum and still we get people saying stuff like this???

I mean really????"

I know, my grandad used to say about people in general, you can teach the uneducated but you can't teach the stupid.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

I read some research that suggested about one-third of SNP voters don't won't to be in the EU or the UK.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I read some research that suggested about one-third of SNP voters don't won't to be in the EU or the UK.

Well from my limited knowledge on Scottish chances of EU membership after leaving the UK then they'd probably end up with neither.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

I think both would be long, drawn-out affairs in practice - trying to leave the UK and trying to enter the EU.

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By *ust the ticket1Couple
over a year ago

Kirkcaldy

It's sh*te being Scottish. We're the lowest of the low , the scum of the .....earth. the most wretched servile pathetic trash that was ever sh*t into civilisation. Some hate the English. I don't. They're just w****ers . We on the other hand are colonised by wa***ers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonised by. We are ruled by effete a*****les. It's a s**te state of affairs to be in Tommy and all the fresh air in the world won't make any f****ing difference.

That's a no from me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's sh*te being Scottish. We're the lowest of the low , the scum of the .....earth. the most wretched servile pathetic trash that was ever sh*t into civilisation. Some hate the English. I don't. They're just w****ers . We on the other hand are colonised by wa***ers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonised by. We are ruled by effete a*****les. It's a s**te state of affairs to be in Tommy and all the fresh air in the world won't make any f****ing difference.

That's a no from me

I'm getting mixed messages here.

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By *ust the ticket1Couple
over a year ago

Kirkcaldy

That's a no from me

I'm getting mixed messages here.

I should be a politician.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am Scottish and live in Scotland. I don't want to be an independent country. I like the lifestyle I have become accustomed to and independence would ruin us financially. The SNP waste our resources as it is. Free the unicorn. Scoff!

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

That's a no from me

Ive seen profiles say "no asians", a few say "no blackmen". But ive never seen "no Scots"! So you're not *that* bad...

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