FabSwingers.com forum: Ignorant people voting

By *moothCriminal_x OP Man
over a year ago

Redditch

My fb is alive with ridiculously ignorant people and it drives me mad. People who had no clue what the EU was or how it worked and who voted brexit anyway...people who have no idea what policies the different parties have...people who dont know how our parliamentary system works....

I like an informed discussion and a disagreement tends in these cases to be a values argument - what i hate is how people argue with you when they simply do not understand anything but think they do and that their opinion is equally valid...

Not all opinions are right/true/of equal merit or value!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Facts don't matter, this is post truth society, people will believe anything as long as it aligns with their stubborn beliefs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What would be your solution to this problem? A minimum IQ for voting? Or a minimum level of competence in spelling and grammar perhaps? How about some sort of test that shows a certain level of understanding of neutral facts? Or is it just that you want people to think how you think, and vote how you want them to vote?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I know what you mean, I saw a post saying 58% of the people of Gateshead voted leave, when I pointed out that it was actually 58% of the people that voted voted for leave and that it was only approximately 30% of the town, you would have thought I had committed the most evil crime in history with the amount of hateful and poisonous replays I got.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

People have the right to vote that is democracy,it has its faults but seems to be the best system.

I do feel though that the internet is distorting peoples thoughts and are to influenced by slogans,the internet makes people brain dead especially the young.

I also feel the voting age should be raised to 25 as people young people do not have the majority to vote.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

i never use facebook or twitter it seems to me its just like being on here but on a much larger scale, opinions are like arseholes everyone has one and its not debating its just points scoring.

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By *V-AliceTV/TS
over a year ago

Ayr

Isaac Asimov once said this:

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

Clearly, this is true for all democracies. Trump, Boris and Hitler have all relied on it to promote their politics.

That said, it is a problem for democracies. If you live in Russia, China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, etc it doesn't matter how clever you are, you don't get to choose who governs you.

I'd far rather live in a country where the ignorant are allowed to vote, than live in one where none of us are.

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By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

"What would be your solution to this problem? A minimum IQ for voting? Or a minimum level of competence in spelling and grammar perhaps? How about some sort of test that shows a certain level of understanding of neutral facts? Or is it just that you want people to think how you think, and vote how you want them to vote?"
that’s exactly it he only wants ppl to vote as long as they vote same way as him he wants to live in a world we’re everyone thinks the same What’s happened to democracy

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By *ljamMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"What would be your solution to this problem? A minimum IQ for voting? Or a minimum level of competence in spelling and grammar perhaps? How about some sort of test that shows a certain level of understanding of neutral facts? Or is it just that you want people to think how you think, and vote how you want them to vote? that’s exactly it he only wants ppl to vote as long as they vote same way as him he wants to live in a world we’re everyone thinks the same What’s happened to democracy "

I think the conclusion you've drawn says more about you than it does the OP. I mean, all they want is informed debate, rather than ignorance and misinformation... I would have thought that is a fairly universally acceptable desire for anyone without an agenda.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I suppose we could set up special learning centres in the middle of nowhere and train their thoughts to think along the party lines

Now where are they trying that approach ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What would be your solution to this problem? A minimum IQ for voting? Or a minimum level of competence in spelling and grammar perhaps? How about some sort of test that shows a certain level of understanding of neutral facts? Or is it just that you want people to think how you think, and vote how you want them to vote? that’s exactly it he only wants ppl to vote as long as they vote same way as him he wants to live in a world we’re everyone thinks the same What’s happened to democracy "

Democracy is two lions and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.

In this case the rich and the poor clubbing together to get us a government who will overtax the middle class.

If votes were proportional to tax paid then the people who actually supply the money would decide how it's spent.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What would be your solution to this problem? A minimum IQ for voting? Or a minimum level of competence in spelling and grammar perhaps? How about some sort of test that shows a certain level of understanding of neutral facts? Or is it just that you want people to think how you think, and vote how you want them to vote? that’s exactly it he only wants ppl to vote as long as they vote same way as him he wants to live in a world we’re everyone thinks the same What’s happened to democracy "

It’s a bit like supporting a footy team - people make a choice early in their lives and tend to stick to that no matter how good or bad the team is. The big problem for democracy is that social media reinforces people’s opinions by pushing them towards other like minded people and you end up with group thinking which is what leads to serious conflicts and self destructive behaviour. If you want it in black and white, many people are unable or unwilling to understand why democracy is important because it’s complicated, takes too long, is boring for them and they are too busy and don’t believe that anything they say or do has any effect on parliament, which is actually how a democracy works - filtering out the extreme ideas until there is something everyone can agree on even if there is a bit of a grumble about it. Brexit didn’t conform to this tried and trusted method because it was a protest vote and had the influence of a new type of political interference via Facebook and Cambridge Analytica and as a result normal service is broken which is why we are where we are. People are not bad, they are just struggling to make sense of it all and frustration is getting the better of them. I was brought up by my Nan to always ask why people want you to buy what they are selling, what’s in it for them, and leavers don’t seem to me to have any answer as to why that is? Mr Farage would have done a lot better if he had focused on reforming parliament rather than Brexit imho.

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By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

"What would be your solution to this problem? A minimum IQ for voting? Or a minimum level of competence in spelling and grammar perhaps? How about some sort of test that shows a certain level of understanding of neutral facts? Or is it just that you want people to think how you think, and vote how you want them to vote? that’s exactly it he only wants ppl to vote as long as they vote same way as him he wants to live in a world we’re everyone thinks the same What’s happened to democracy

Democracy is two lions and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.

In this case the rich and the poor clubbing together to get us a government who will overtax the middle class.

If votes were proportional to tax paid then the people who actually supply the money would decide how it's spent."
so basically the more well off should vote then and the poor should obey and shut the fuck up lol great so that’s yr democracy then ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We live in the age where opinions are held in the same regard as facts.

We are fucked. Brexit, trump and climate change deniers are just the start.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

so basically the more well off should vote then and the poor should obey and shut the fuck up lol great so that’s yr democracy then ?"

That's exactly Brexit in a nutshell.

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By *ADY VOLUPTUOUS OF KENTWoman
over a year ago

TONBRIDGE ROUNDABOUTS

Stop using pencils...anyone could rub it out....why voting not online this 2019..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What would be your solution to this problem? A minimum IQ for voting? Or a minimum level of competence in spelling and grammar perhaps? How about some sort of test that shows a certain level of understanding of neutral facts? Or is it just that you want people to think how you think, and vote how you want them to vote? that’s exactly it he only wants ppl to vote as long as they vote same way as him he wants to live in a world we’re everyone thinks the same What’s happened to democracy

Democracy is two lions and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.

In this case the rich and the poor clubbing together to get us a government who will overtax the middle class.

If votes were proportional to tax paid then the people who actually supply the money would decide how it's spent. so basically the more well off should vote then and the poor should obey and shut the fuck up lol great so that’s yr democracy then ?"

Nope because the super rich don't pay taxes they won't have a say and the poor will still have a say because of their numbers.

The bulk of income tax is paid by only 1% of the population.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

so basically the more well off should vote then and the poor should obey and shut the fuck up lol great so that’s yr democracy then ?

That's exactly Brexit in a nutshell."

Whilst some people are poor because of circumstances beyond their control, some people are poor because they make bad choices.

There us an argument to be made that people who can't even manage their own household are probably not the right people to make decisions about an entire country. As OP pointed out, a person with no clue about politics has the same vote as a person with a degree in political science.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Protocol 1, Article 3 of the European Convention of Human Rights sets out the right to participate in free elections.

This is enshrined in the Human Rights Act of the UK.

The same legislation that is detested by some on the right who want it scrapped.

Remember that when you cast your vote.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

All people have an equal right to vote, this election i notice they are really trying to get people with mental health issues to vote and so they should.I notice stupid is used a lot in this forum but how do you define stupid?

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

"People have the right to vote that is democracy,it has its faults but seems to be the best system.

I do feel though that the internet is distorting peoples thoughts and are to influenced by slogans,the internet makes people brain dead especially the young.

I also feel the voting age should be raised to 25 as people young people do not have the majority to vote."

How about we only allow people between 25 & 50 to vote, so long as they have signed a declaration that they will only vote right wing! Ffs there is no reason why people should not be allowed to vote from 18 and possibly even 16.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

so basically the more well off should vote then and the poor should obey and shut the fuck up lol great so that’s yr democracy then ?

That's exactly Brexit in a nutshell.

Whilst some people are poor because of circumstances beyond their control, some people are poor because they make bad choices.

Yeah. It has to be like that. It should be the duty of society to educate the population, and to punish political parties who lie by not voting for them, instead we are rewarding them by voting for them again.

My point about brexit was that, generally speaking, poor people were conned into voting leave, purely for the benefit of the rich few.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"People have the right to vote that is democracy,it has its faults but seems to be the best system.

I do feel though that the internet is distorting peoples thoughts and are to influenced by slogans,the internet makes people brain dead especially the young.

I also feel the voting age should be raised to 25 as people young people do not have the majority to vote."

Maybe they should stop people aged 60 and over from voting??

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"Protocol 1, Article 3 of the European Convention of Human Rights sets out the right to participate in free elections.

This is enshrined in the Human Rights Act of the UK.

The same legislation that is detested by some on the right who want it scrapped.

Remember that when you cast your vote.

"
You talk as if we didnt have that right before we joined the eu

What do you think we did before we joined and why would the right want to change anything? I cannot believe some of the crap spouted on here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Protocol 1, Article 3 of the European Convention of Human Rights sets out the right to participate in free elections.

This is enshrined in the Human Rights Act of the UK.

The same legislation that is detested by some on the right who want it scrapped.

Remember that when you cast your vote.

You talk as if we didnt have that right before we joined the eu

What do you think we did before we joined and why would the right want to change anything? I cannot believe some of the crap spouted on here."

This was a good post. You made something up, put words in someone else's mouth. Then got outraged by it.

I very much enjoyed this one.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"Protocol 1, Article 3 of the European Convention of Human Rights sets out the right to participate in free elections.

This is enshrined in the Human Rights Act of the UK.

The same legislation that is detested by some on the right who want it scrapped.

Remember that when you cast your vote.

You talk as if we didnt have that right before we joined the eu

What do you think we did before we joined and why would the right want to change anything? I cannot believe some of the crap spouted on here."

ECHR has nothing to do with the EU.

It's a Treaty drawn up by a British Conservative lawyer to protect the citizen from unreasonable interference by the state.

The very fact this question is even being discussed - who should be allowed to vote - underlines its importance.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

***New thread title***

"Anyone who doesn't vote the same way as me is ignorant and should be banned from voting"

There you go. It wasn't too difficult to tell the truth.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"***New thread title***

"Anyone who doesn't vote the same way as me is ignorant and should be banned from voting"

There you go. It wasn't too difficult to tell the truth."

Stick to German & Spanish politics

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee

"People have the right to vote that is democracy,it has its faults but seems to be the best system.

I do feel though that the internet is distorting peoples thoughts and are to influenced by slogans,the internet makes people brain dead especially the young.

I also feel the voting age should be raised to 25 as people young people do not have the majority to vote.

If you're old enough to pay tax at 16. You're old enough to have a say in how your tax is spent.

Votes for 16 year olds!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"People have the right to vote that is democracy,it has its faults but seems to be the best system.

I do feel though that the internet is distorting peoples thoughts and are to influenced by slogans,the internet makes people brain dead especially the young.

I also feel the voting age should be raised to 25 as people young people do not have the majority to vote.

If you're old enough to pay tax at 16. You're old enough to have a say in how your tax is spent.

Votes for 16 year olds!"

I agree,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"People have the right to vote that is democracy,it has its faults but seems to be the best system.

I do feel though that the internet is distorting peoples thoughts and are to influenced by slogans,the internet makes people brain dead especially the young.

I also feel the voting age should be raised to 25 as people young people do not have the majority to vote.

If you're old enough to pay tax at 16. You're old enough to have a say in how your tax is spent.

Votes for 16 year olds!

I agree,

Also agree.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Protocol 1, Article 3 of the European Convention of Human Rights sets out the right to participate in free elections.

This is enshrined in the Human Rights Act of the UK.

The same legislation that is detested by some on the right who want it scrapped.

Remember that when you cast your vote.

You talk as if we didnt have that right before we joined the eu

What do you think we did before we joined and why would the right want to change anything? I cannot believe some of the crap spouted on here.

ECHR has nothing to do with the EU.

It's a Treaty drawn up by a British Conservative lawyer to protect the citizen from unreasonable interference by the state.

The very fact this question is even being discussed - who should be allowed to vote - underlines its importance.

Well right now a newspaper article which has been found to be false and influencing voters by a court of law is not being acted upon.

I was outraged when BJ spent a fortune on a prepare for Brexit on 31 October 2019 when it was clearly never going to happen. But other people I know who don't pay tax just shrugged. Those people voted Brexit and will vote Tory.

But you are right. Turkeys should be allowed to vote for Christmas.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

I'm more concerned about foreign interference in UK elections than I am about the OP.

The truth is being withheld.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Protocol 1, Article 3 of the European Convention of Human Rights sets out the right to participate in free elections.

This is enshrined in the Human Rights Act of the UK.

The same legislation that is detested by some on the right who want it scrapped.

Remember that when you cast your vote.

You talk as if we didnt have that right before we joined the eu

What do you think we did before we joined and why would the right want to change anything? I cannot believe some of the crap spouted on here.

ECHR has nothing to do with the EU.

It's a Treaty drawn up by a British Conservative lawyer to protect the citizen from unreasonable interference by the state.

The very fact this question is even being discussed - who should be allowed to vote - underlines its importance.

Well right now a newspaper article which has been found to be false and influencing voters by a court of law is not being acted upon.

But you are right. Turkeys should be allowed to vote for Christmas."

I agree . The sad irony is that the majority of people who voted for Brexit and will now vote conservatives are those that will suffer the most

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By *ichael McCarthyMan
over a year ago

Lucan

I still can't understand why when British people were given the option of a democratic voting system they chose to retain the undemocratic FPTP system.

May's first term as pm gave her 51% of the seats with just 37% of the votes. Then by increasing her vote by 5% she reduced her seat count by 2%.

If that sort of nonsense went on anywhere else in Europe you'd all be saying it was madness.

Lads, it's madness!

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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"People have the right to vote that is democracy,it has its faults but seems to be the best system.

I do feel though that the internet is distorting peoples thoughts and are to influenced by slogans,the internet makes people brain dead especially the young.

I also feel the voting age should be raised to 25 as people young people do not have the majority to vote."

Most of the people is see sharing complete inaccurate twaddle on Facebook are actually older people. The younger ones seem to have more critical thinking skills.

-Matt

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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"Stop using pencils...anyone could rub it out....why voting not online this 2019..

Lol. It was funny seeing all the idiots bleating on about not using pencil at the last election.

-Matt

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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"I still can't understand why when British people were given the option of a democratic voting system they chose to retain the undemocratic FPTP system.

May's first term as pm gave her 51% of the seats with just 37% of the votes. Then by increasing her vote by 5% she reduced her seat count by 2%.

If that sort of nonsense went on anywhere else in Europe you'd all be saying it was madness.

Lads, it's madness!

Alas the tabloid owners managed to convince their readers that counting to 5 was beyond them and so they shouldn’t vote for electoral reform.

-Matt

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"People have the right to vote that is democracy,it has its faults but seems to be the best system.

I do feel though that the internet is distorting peoples thoughts and are to influenced by slogans,the internet makes people brain dead especially the young.

I also feel the voting age should be raised to 25 as people young people do not have the majority to vote."

And yet, ironically, research has showed that it's the 50+ age range that often falls for misleading things online, especially via Facebook and Twitter. Should we have a maximum age range too? Say only between 25-45 can vote?

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"People have the right to vote that is democracy,it has its faults but seems to be the best system.

I do feel though that the internet is distorting peoples thoughts and are to influenced by slogans,the internet makes people brain dead especially the young.

I also feel the voting age should be raised to 25 as people young people do not have the majority to vote.

If you're old enough to pay tax at 16. You're old enough to have a say in how your tax is spent.

Votes for 16 year olds!"

You're old enough to pay tax at any age, if you earn enough money in your own right. If that's the definition being used then people should be given the vote at birth.

I can see an argument that if a person is actually paying UK tax at 16 they should have a vote, but then why not apply that to everyone including foreign nationals?

At 16 most people still live at home and are dependent on their parents and have little or no understand of what it's like to earn money which is then taken off you because someone else thinks they know better than you what it should be spent on. With rights comes responsible and most 16 year olds simply don't have the responsibility for their own finances to allowed to make decisions on other people's.

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By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

so basically the more well off should vote then and the poor should obey and shut the fuck up lol great so that’s yr democracy then ?

That's exactly Brexit in a nutshell."
heres me thinking The Whole of uk got to vote on brexit

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

so basically the more well off should vote then and the poor should obey and shut the fuck up lol great so that’s yr democracy then ?

That's exactly Brexit in a nutshell.heres me thinking The Whole of uk got to vote on brexit "

Those eligible to vote yes. But they obeyed the ruling classes and voted as they were told to. Those that didn't have since been told to shut up, and/or fuck off.

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By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

so basically the more well off should vote then and the poor should obey and shut the fuck up lol great so that’s yr democracy then ?

That's exactly Brexit in a nutshell.heres me thinking The Whole of uk got to vote on brexit

Those eligible to vote yes. But they obeyed the ruling classes and voted as they were told to. Those that didn't have since been told to shut up, and/or fuck off."
so 17-4 were told how to vote and obey you put some good stuff on here then silly things like this makes me think yr a labour activist

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"People have the right to vote that is democracy,it has its faults but seems to be the best system.

I do feel though that the internet is distorting peoples thoughts and are to influenced by slogans,the internet makes people brain dead especially the young.

I also feel the voting age should be raised to 25 as people young people do not have the majority to vote.

If you're old enough to pay tax at 16. You're old enough to have a say in how your tax is spent.

Votes for 16 year olds!

You're old enough to pay tax at any age, if you earn enough money in your own right. If that's the definition being used then people should be given the vote at birth.

I can see an argument that if a person is actually paying UK tax at 16 they should have a vote, but then why not apply that to everyone including foreign nationals?

"
Foreign nationals living here can vote in local elections just like expats living abroad.In General elections expats cant so why should it apply here, would it be because it would give you more chance of getting what you want by any chance?

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

When you look around the UK, you realise all the anomalies.

Different voting systems in different elections, different electorates for different elections, devolution of some powers to some and not to others . . .

It's a mess, basically.

It needs a good clean-up.

A new constitutional settlement.

A federal state is the way forward.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"When you look around the UK, you realise all the anomalies.

Different voting systems in different elections, different electorates for different elections, devolution of some powers to some and not to others . . .

It's a mess, basically.

It needs a good clean-up.

A new constitutional settlement.

A federal state is the way forward.

"
Theres me thinking you wanted scottish independence

It was the scots and welsh who wanted devolution of powers do you think they should go back to Westminster?

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"***New thread title***

"Anyone who doesn't vote the same way as me is ignorant and should be banned from voting"

There you go. It wasn't too difficult to tell the truth.

Stick to German & Spanish politics

What an intelligent answer. I bet you had to think long and hard to come up with that.

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

"***New thread title***

"Anyone who doesn't vote the same way as me is ignorant and should be banned from voting"

There you go. It wasn't too difficult to tell the truth."

Thats exactly it, anyone who voted brexit was old, stupid and racist, any one who votes tory is old, stupid and racist, well according to those that voted the other way, sounds just like the good old ussr and china, you can vote forever you like , as long as its us.

In democracy every one eligble to vote should be able to regardless of whether some nobody on a forum thinks they are stupid or thick, to stop them doing so is a very slippery slope, the answer is to have a better debate and with the standard of our media and politicians that isnt going to happen soon.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Theres me thinking you wanted scottish independence

It was the scots and welsh who wanted devolution of powers do you think they should go back to Westminster?"

I cannot recall arguing for Scottish independence.

I do recall saying that, in the event of Brexit actually happening, it's the obvious route for someone like me to regain my rights of EU citizenship, because my Irish heritage is too distant.

A federal state is one consisting of four nations, each with its parliament and responsibility for all domestic issues and taxation, that come together as one for reserved matters like defence, international relations.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

"People have the right to vote that is democracy,it has its faults but seems to be the best system.

I do feel though that the internet is distorting peoples thoughts and are to influenced by slogans,the internet makes people brain dead especially the young.

I also feel the voting age should be raised to 25 as people young people do not have the majority to vote.

If you're old enough to pay tax at 16. You're old enough to have a say in how your tax is spent.

Votes for 16 year olds!

You're old enough to pay tax at any age, if you earn enough money in your own right. If that's the definition being used then people should be given the vote at birth.

I can see an argument that if a person is actually paying UK tax at 16 they should have a vote, but then why not apply that to everyone including foreign nationals?

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee

"People have the right to vote that is democracy,it has its faults but seems to be the best system.

I do feel though that the internet is distorting peoples thoughts and are to influenced by slogans,the internet makes people brain dead especially the young.

I also feel the voting age should be raised to 25 as people young people do not have the majority to vote.

If you're old enough to pay tax at 16. You're old enough to have a say in how your tax is spent.

Votes for 16 year olds!

You're old enough to pay tax at any age, if you earn enough money in your own right. If that's the definition being used then people should be given the vote at birth.

I can see an argument that if a person is actually paying UK tax at 16 they should have a vote, but then why not apply that to everyone including foreign nationals?

*sigh* National Insurance then - which just tax by another name.

Thats not the point though, is it. They are taxed as adults,can leave school, leave home, get a job, get married, raise children, participate in adult society in every meaningful way.

If you were arguing that kids must stay in school till 18, legally children, without being able to undertake any of the responsibilities I've listed above - you'd have a point.

But as it is - you are advocating the continued disenfranchisement of young workers.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

A federal state would also allow England and Wales to sit outside the EU, and Scotland and NI to sit within the EU.

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