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"It's almost complete already. c2c: Italian state Chiltern: German state Caledonian sleeper: PRIVATE CrossCountry: German state East Midlands: Dutch state Eurostar: French state Gatwick Express: French state Grand Central: German state Great Northern: French state GWR: PRIVATE Greater Anglia: Dutch state Heathrow Express: PRIVATE Hull Trains: PRIVATE LNER: British state London Northwestern Railway: Dutch state London Overground: German state London Underground: British state Merseyrail: Dutch state Northern: German state Northern Ireland Railways: British state Scotrail: Dutch state South Western Railway: Hong Kong state Southeastern: French state Southern: French state Stansted Express: Dutch state TfL rail: Hong Kong state Thameslink: French state TransPennine Express: PRIVATE Transport for Wales: French state West Coast: Italian state West Midlands Railway: Dutch state " That's some proper research. Just out of interest, do France, Germany, Italy, etc have state owned rail networks? Or do they just fuck ours up for a laugh?  | |||
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"I believe the profits earned here are used to offset the cost of fares back home. " Talk about thinking it through. I wonder what it's like to live in a country where your government acts in everyone's interests; not just the shareholders'? | |||
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"I believe the profits earned here are used to offset the cost of fares back home. Talk about thinking it through. I wonder what it's like to live in a country where your government acts in everyone's interests; not just the shareholders'?" I doubt we'll find out any time soon.  | |||
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"I believe the profits earned here are used to offset the cost of fares back home. Talk about thinking it through. I wonder what it's like to live in a country where your government acts in everyone's interests; not just the shareholders'? " That's the point isn't it. These governments are the major shareholders in their own railways (and also utilities). The profits roll back into the treasury or the companies themselves. The bleating about the costs of Labour's nationalisation programs miss the point that, once in place, all the profits are ours (the British people) to improve the services, or use elsewhere... | |||
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"It's called capitalism. BP own stuff all over the world and their profits come back here, that is why when the pound is tanking they make bigger profits. What you ask for is socialism where the state owns the asset. Trouble is governments are not terribly good at running railways and you end up with very bad cheese sandwiches LOL. " Private companies seem v bad at running railways, though. They only care about their profits. | |||
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"It's called capitalism. BP own stuff all over the world and their profits come back here, that is why when the pound is tanking they make bigger profits. What you ask for is socialism where the state owns the asset. Trouble is governments are not terribly good at running railways and you end up with very bad cheese sandwiches LOL. " The fact the OP's first post details that our railways are already run by governments, seems to make your statement redundant. | |||
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"When you look at the structure, you begin to realise that the railways have never been privatised in any true sense. There is no daily competition between companies on any route. Instead, the Government parcels up a bunch of routes, sets the service level for a period of time and simply invites private interests to take over the management of the operating company. Presumably in the belief the private sector is better at running companies than the state sector. Except most of the railway companies are now in the hands of the state sector. Just not the British state. Ideology gone made - state ownership is fine, so long as it is not British state ownership "You can get to King's Cross by LNER, Grand Central, Hull Trains, and Great Northern, so to say there is no competition is a little false. Incidentally DB, the German rail operator, is technically a private company. Its just that the Federal Goverment own all the shares. | |||
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"Each of those companies you mention operates different routes to each other. If I want to travel from Bristol to London, only GWR will transport me. If I want to travel from Bristol to Birmingham, only Cross Country will transport me. If I want to travel from Birmingham direct to Glasgow, only Virgin will transport me. If I want to travel from London to Aberdeen, only East Coast will transport me. Point to point, there is no competition - only services that have been contracted out to private-sector management. " So you'd prefer a joined up railway? Like British Rail from 1948 until 1997. The problem with that scenario, is there could never be any competition, although if we stop in the EU, private operators would demand access to the network. | |||
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" So you'd prefer a joined up railway? Like British Rail from 1948 until 1997. The problem with that scenario, is there could never be any competition, although if we stop in the EU, private operators would demand access to the network. " I'm not sure what the best operating model is, but this hybrid public/private arrangement is working only in the interests of share-holders, not the country or the customers. I'm not wedded to any particular ideology, but I do object to the Conservative ideology and its determination always to privatise the profit and nationalise the risk. | |||
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" So you'd prefer a joined up railway? Like British Rail from 1948 until 1997. The problem with that scenario, is there could never be any competition, although if we stop in the EU, private operators would demand access to the network. I'm not sure what the best operating model is, but this hybrid public/private arrangement is working only in the interests of share-holders, not the country or the customers. I'm not wedded to any particular ideology, but I do object to the Conservative ideology and its determination always to privatise the profit and nationalise the risk. " It's not like the privatisation removes the cost from government either. They are pumping more in at present than when it was BR. Not one bit of it makes sense! | |||
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"This is what it looks like in real life. I'm in Inverness this week. To travel from Inverness to Bristol: - single fare on Easyjet (inc. hold luggage) £48 - single fare on the train (Scotrail, Virgin & Cross Country) £252 The train is four times more expensive than an aeroplane and ten times slower. I'm taking the plane. " To slightly counter that. I travelled from Lichfield TV station and then U/G to reach a destination near Pinner at peak time 7.10 in the morning on virgin a couple of weeks ago and it was £ 74.10 including the U/G day pass. I was there in a shade over 2 hours. | |||
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"I'm off to Playa Del Ingles this weekend with my fella. Return flights, Bristol to Las Palmas, inc. hold luggage, £115 each. Return rail fare Bristol to London - £204 each. " Do you not book ahead, which is always the cheapest way of doing it? Two of us went from Paddington to Bristol one way on Saturday. £27.70 total! | |||
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"I'm off to Playa Del Ingles this weekend with my fella. Return flights, Bristol to Las Palmas, inc. hold luggage, £115 each. Return rail fare Bristol to London - £204 each. Do you not book ahead, which is always the cheapest way of doing it? Two of us went from Paddington to Bristol one way on Saturday. £27.70 total! " Also booking multiple tickets. If you buy a ticket from (for example) Bristol to Swindon, then another from there to London, they ofter work out much cheaper. My friend has done Leeds to Harwich for 21 quid in this way. | |||
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"I'm off to Playa Del Ingles this weekend with my fella. Return flights, Bristol to Las Palmas, inc. hold luggage, £115 each. Return rail fare Bristol to London - £204 each. " This comes down to when you book the tickets. Even with a week's notice, there's no way the return fare is £204 each. Leave Bristol Saturday morning, return Sunday night - £42 each. | |||
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"I've done that trip numerous times. The fare to London and back is £204. Unless you go on specified trains at off-peak times to suit the train operating company. " The "walk up" fare for that journey is £205ish. That includes going on the most expensive trains back from Paddington, which is £144! As illustrated, there are a lot of ways of doing it far far cheaper. | |||
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"I've done that trip numerous times. The fare to London and back is £204. Unless you go on specified trains at off-peak times to suit the train operating company. The "walk up" fare for that journey is £205ish. That includes going on the most expensive trains back from Paddington, which is £144! As illustrated, there are a lot of ways of doing it far far cheaper. " But often that's what you have to do. I work in a sales role. Quite often I'll get a meeting in my calender for the next day, at 09:30 in the City. A full fare return is all I can do. Obviously it's expensed, so not out of my pocket. But it still rankles... | |||
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"I've done that trip numerous times. The fare to London and back is £204. Unless you go on specified trains at off-peak times to suit the train operating company. The "walk up" fare for that journey is £205ish. That includes going on the most expensive trains back from Paddington, which is £144! As illustrated, there are a lot of ways of doing it far far cheaper. " Well for all you pensioners who have the freedom to travel at any time of day of course that works. I can travel to London and back on Megabus for £12 if I book it early enough but there are limited numbers of seats available at that price and travelling by rail is much the same. Loss leaders to get people on board and fill a percentage of the seats to offset the basic cost of running the service is not rocket science now. The real problem is that these trains are running on lines owned by railtrack which had inherited a system that had been starved of investment for decades. You have to ask whether the lack of investment was all because of the rise of individual car ownership or short term investment decisions by shareholders? | |||
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"I've done that trip numerous times. The fare to London and back is £204. Unless you go on specified trains at off-peak times to suit the train operating company. The "walk up" fare for that journey is £205ish. That includes going on the most expensive trains back from Paddington, which is £144! As illustrated, there are a lot of ways of doing it far far cheaper. But often that's what you have to do. I work in a sales role. Quite often I'll get a meeting in my calender for the next day, at 09:30 in the City. A full fare return is all I can do. Obviously it's expensed, so not out of my pocket. But it still rankles... " The Train Operating Companies use expensive fares to control capacity. Modern trains are fixed length, carriages can't be added and there isn't capacity to run additional trains. Railway usage has exploded, which isn't a bad thing. We now need to build more capacity into the system, maybe even reversing some of the Beeching cuts in strategic places. | |||
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"I've done that trip numerous times. The fare to London and back is £204. Unless you go on specified trains at off-peak times to suit the train operating company. The "walk up" fare for that journey is £205ish. That includes going on the most expensive trains back from Paddington, which is £144! As illustrated, there are a lot of ways of doing it far far cheaper. But often that's what you have to do. I work in a sales role. Quite often I'll get a meeting in my calender for the next day, at 09:30 in the City. A full fare return is all I can do. Obviously it's expensed, so not out of my pocket. But it still rankles... The Train Operating Companies use expensive fares to control capacity. Modern trains are fixed length, carriages can't be added and there isn't capacity to run additional trains. Railway usage has exploded, which isn't a bad thing. We now need to build more capacity into the system, maybe even reversing some of the Beeching cuts in strategic places. " Yes, many of them are still there (baring the rails). Using a sensible approach, with small self powered (electric) trains, it would not be a too daunting a task. It would also allow sensible housing development, away from the present motorway/rail corridors. | |||
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"I've done that trip numerous times. The fare to London and back is £204. Unless you go on specified trains at off-peak times to suit the train operating company. The "walk up" fare for that journey is £205ish. That includes going on the most expensive trains back from Paddington, which is £144! As illustrated, there are a lot of ways of doing it far far cheaper. But often that's what you have to do. I work in a sales role. Quite often I'll get a meeting in my calender for the next day, at 09:30 in the City. A full fare return is all I can do. Obviously it's expensed, so not out of my pocket. But it still rankles... The Train Operating Companies use expensive fares to control capacity. Modern trains are fixed length, carriages can't be added and there isn't capacity to run additional trains. Railway usage has exploded, which isn't a bad thing. We now need to build more capacity into the system, maybe even reversing some of the Beeching cuts in strategic places. Yes, many of them are still there (baring the rails). Using a sensible approach, with small self powered (electric) trains, it would not be a too daunting a task. It would also allow sensible housing development, away from the present motorway/rail corridors. " The one that stands out, is an East to West link from Cambridge to Oxford. New lines would be passenger only, so could be more of a green light rail scheme. | |||
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"I've done that trip numerous times. The fare to London and back is £204. Unless you go on specified trains at off-peak times to suit the train operating company. " You compared the train fare to a plane fare this weekend. Is your plane ticket flexible? I looked up a weekend in London, return from Bristol, Saturday morning until Sunday night. It's £42.00 | |||
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"Okay, let's take your figures, then. Distance from Bristol to London and back - 234 miles @ £42 Distance from Bristol to Gran Canaria and back - 4674 miles @ £115 Cost per mile: By train: 18p per mile By plane: 2p per mile " Using your figures, the comparative plane fare from Bristol to London return would be under a fiver. 18 pence per mile sounds very reasonable for a return from Bristol to London and with advanced booking would always be available around that price, whereas your flight would be a lot more expensive in say, mid-August. | |||
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"Okay, let's take your figures, then. Distance from Bristol to London and back - 234 miles @ £42 Distance from Bristol to Gran Canaria and back - 4674 miles @ £115 Cost per mile: By train: 18p per mile By plane: 2p per mile Using your figures, the comparative plane fare from Bristol to London return would be under a fiver. 18 pence per mile sounds very reasonable for a return from Bristol to London and with advanced booking would always be available around that price, whereas your flight would be a lot more expensive in say, mid-August. " HMRC allow 45p to be paid as expenses per mile for a car journey. If we want to compare another mode of transport. | |||
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"Okay, let's take your figures, then. Distance from Bristol to London and back - 234 miles @ £42 Distance from Bristol to Gran Canaria and back - 4674 miles @ £115 Cost per mile: By train: 18p per mile By plane: 2p per mile " think you will find the distance from bristol to gc return is around 3,500 or did diane abbot do the maths.  | |||
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Nothing Marxist about the fare either - £55 one-way from Kirkcaldy to Inverness.
This message is brought to you courtesy of Abellio, a subsidiary of the Ministry of Transport in the Netherlands.
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