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"Probably not as for 43 of the 71 years the NHS has existed there has been a Conservative government in power, so this mantra of the Tories are going to privatise/sell off the NHS is becoming a bit stale. There has always been private sector involvement in the NHS since it was created. The NHS routinely outsources the equipment and products that it uses and dentistry, eye care, pharmacy and most GP practices are provided by the private sector. We need an honest debate about the future of the NHS as it’s funding model is its weakness. It’s interesting no other nation copies the NHS. Most other countries use compulsory medical insurance schemes either state run or private sector run. However the chances of that debate in this country are slim to none because as soon as you say insurance based schemes everyone only thinks of the USA as an example and not for instance France which is considered to have one of the best health services in the world and was considered that in 2001 by the WHO. Brexit will continue to be the dominant factor in the GE campaign despite the various parties attempts to change that. " The crux of the debate for me is if you pay into a health system, are those resources allocated to those who have an account, or a general donation basis where people sre trested regardless of ability to pay into the system as now. Ive no udea how the French sytem functions but will have a look. One factor that annoys the hell out of me is the pharmaceutical companies charging the nhs £10 per box of paracetamol when you can buy it for under £1 at a local chemist. | |||
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"Probably not as for 43 of the 71 years the NHS has existed there has been a Conservative government in power, so this mantra of the Tories are going to privatise/sell off the NHS is becoming a bit stale. " You must admit though that the dynamics are about to change on a scale potentially never seen before. We've never been on the verge to embark on a trade negotiation on this scale ever before. Trade for the last 40 years has been part of a trading block. If we leave and lose all the trade agreements that we currently have the prospect of the NHS been in the trade negotiations is high because we'll be looking at a massive hit on our trade terms and the requirement to replace the agreements quickly will be high and is going to play as a major leverage point from countries wanting a slice of the NHS. | |||
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"Does anyone in their right mind really believe this labour propaganda ? Any party selling out the NHS would be committing political suicide and would cease to exist for decades if not for ever.The tories have been running the NHS for more than half its history Corbyn believes if he repeats something enough people will believe him and its sad to say but some do. " It's worked well for Farage hasn't it and Brexit is the ultimate example of your own point  | |||
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"One factor that annoys the hell out of me is the pharmaceutical companies charging the nhs £10 per box of paracetamol when you can buy it for under £1 at a local chemist. " You can thank the Tories for that. It was they removed central procurement, just as privatisation of the NHS has been driven by Tories who hate it because of what it is. To be clear the first round of privatisation took place under Thatcher when she privatised Hospital cleaning and portering services. Since then we have seen more and more of the NHS hived off to the 'for profit' health industry. FFS GP's practices and primary care trusts are now being sold off to Branson's Virgin Group! So please take your Labour are maligning Tories, the NHS is safe in Conservative hands and stick it where the sun don't shine! One of your Tory fucks has even written a book detailing exactly how your shower of shit are crippling the NHS in order to sell it off without causing a national backlash! | |||
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"Does anyone in their right mind really believe this labour propaganda ? Any party selling out the NHS would be committing political suicide and would cease to exist for decades if not for ever.The tories have been running the NHS for more than half its history Corbyn believes if he repeats something enough people will believe him and its sad to say but some do. It's worked well for Farage hasn't it and Brexit is the ultimate example of your own point "Exactly. Millions of people are voting for the end of the NHS. | |||
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"Probably not as for 43 of the 71 years the NHS has existed there has been a Conservative government in power, so this mantra of the Tories are going to privatise/sell off the NHS is becoming a bit stale. " Do you really need to have it pointed out that we are approaching a situation we've never had in those 43 years? If/when we leave the EU the government will be absolutely desperate for deals to show it's making a success of Brexit. That means everything will be up for grabs. | |||
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"Does anyone in their right mind really believe this labour propaganda ? Any party selling out the NHS would be committing political suicide and would cease to exist for decades if not for ever.The tories have been running the NHS for more than half its history Corbyn believes if he repeats something enough people will believe him and its sad to say but some do. " The Tories won't openly do that, theyre far to sneaky. They'll use a scapegoat or some sly shit to avert the blame. The Tories hate stuff like the nhs but arnt stupid | |||
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"Does anyone in their right mind really believe this labour propaganda ? Any party selling out the NHS would be committing political suicide and would cease to exist for decades if not for ever.The tories have been running the NHS for more than half its history Corbyn believes if he repeats something enough people will believe him and its sad to say but some do. It's worked well for Farage hasn't it and Brexit is the ultimate example of your own point
Exactly. Millions of people are voting for the end of the NHS."So tories dont use the NHS? or are these same tories the thick and ignorant that you think voted for brexit.  | |||
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"Does anyone in their right mind really believe this labour propaganda ? Any party selling out the NHS would be committing political suicide and would cease to exist for decades if not for ever.The tories have been running the NHS for more than half its history Corbyn believes if he repeats something enough people will believe him and its sad to say but some do. It's worked well for Farage hasn't it and Brexit is the ultimate example of your own point
Exactly. Millions of people are voting for the end of the NHS.So tories dont use the NHS? or are these same tories the thick and ignorant that you think voted for brexit. "The tories know it is suicide to publicly and overtly run down the NHS, that hasn't stopped them doing one thing and saying another. Tony Blair should rightfully critised for his PFI funding for the NHS, but Cameron has to take credit for the biggest restructuring of the NHS since it was created. Boris is vulnerable himself due to the condition of the hospital in his own constituency. They will use it to campaign on whilst running it to the ground | |||
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"Probably not as for 43 of the 71 years the NHS has existed there has been a Conservative government in power, so this mantra of the Tories are going to privatise/sell off the NHS is becoming a bit stale. There has always been private sector involvement in the NHS since it was created. The NHS routinely outsources the equipment and products that it uses and dentistry, eye care, pharmacy and most GP practices are provided by the private sector. We need an honest debate about the future of the NHS as it’s funding model is its weakness. It’s interesting no other nation copies the NHS. Most other countries use compulsory medical insurance schemes either state run or private sector run. However the chances of that debate in this country are slim to none because as soon as you say insurance based schemes everyone only thinks of the USA as an example and not for instance France which is considered to have one of the best health services in the world and was considered that in 2001 by the WHO. Brexit will continue to be the dominant factor in the GE campaign despite the various parties attempts to change that. " . Surely you know everybody needs a stick to beat a mantra  | |||
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"Does anyone in their right mind really believe this labour propaganda ? Any party selling out the NHS would be committing political suicide and would cease to exist for decades if not for ever.The tories have been running the NHS for more than half its history Corbyn believes if he repeats something enough people will believe him and its sad to say but some do. It's worked well for Farage hasn't it and Brexit is the ultimate example of your own point
Exactly. Millions of people are voting for the end of the NHS.So tories dont use the NHS? or are these same tories the thick and ignorant that you think voted for brexit. "You're confusing me with someone else there captain. | |||
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"Probably not as for 43 of the 71 years the NHS has existed there has been a Conservative government in power, so this mantra of the Tories are going to privatise/sell off the NHS is becoming a bit stale. There has always been private sector involvement in the NHS since it was created. The NHS routinely outsources the equipment and products that it uses and dentistry, eye care, pharmacy and most GP practices are provided by the private sector. We need an honest debate about the future of the NHS as it’s funding model is its weakness. It’s interesting no other nation copies the NHS. Most other countries use compulsory medical insurance schemes either state run or private sector run. However the chances of that debate in this country are slim to none because as soon as you say insurance based schemes everyone only thinks of the USA as an example and not for instance France which is considered to have one of the best health services in the world and was considered that in 2001 by the WHO. Brexit will continue to be the dominant factor in the GE campaign despite the various parties attempts to change that. . Surely you know everybody needs a stick to beat a mantra "Here is andrew neil taking a Tory Mp to task, regarding NHS spending https://youtu.be/3GpKqznK-wk Here is a trainee doctor giving their reaction to Boris using the NHS for electioneering https://youtu.be/dlh7mlNMhP8 | |||
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"Probably not as for 43 of the 71 years the NHS has existed there has been a Conservative government in power, so this mantra of the Tories are going to privatise/sell off the NHS is becoming a bit stale. There has always been private sector involvement in the NHS since it was created. The NHS routinely outsources the equipment and products that it uses and dentistry, eye care, pharmacy and most GP practices are provided by the private sector. We need an honest debate about the future of the NHS as it’s funding model is its weakness. It’s interesting no other nation copies the NHS. Most other countries use compulsory medical insurance schemes either state run or private sector run. However the chances of that debate in this country are slim to none because as soon as you say insurance based schemes everyone only thinks of the USA as an example and not for instance France which is considered to have one of the best health services in the world and was considered that in 2001 by the WHO. Brexit will continue to be the dominant factor in the GE campaign despite the various parties attempts to change that. . Surely you know everybody needs a stick to beat a mantra
Here is andrew neil taking a Tory Mp to task, regarding NHS spending
https://youtu.be/3GpKqznK-wk
Here is a trainee doctor giving their reaction to Boris using the NHS for electioneering
https://youtu.be/dlh7mlNMhP8". Yes and your not using the NHS for electioneering are you!!!. I haven't even looked but I'm betting the NHS budget has gone up every year under every government for like 40 years?. | |||
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"Probably not as for 43 of the 71 years the NHS has existed there has been a Conservative government in power, so this mantra of the Tories are going to privatise/sell off the NHS is becoming a bit stale. There has always been private sector involvement in the NHS since it was created. The NHS routinely outsources the equipment and products that it uses and dentistry, eye care, pharmacy and most GP practices are provided by the private sector. We need an honest debate about the future of the NHS as it’s funding model is its weakness. It’s interesting no other nation copies the NHS. Most other countries use compulsory medical insurance schemes either state run or private sector run. However the chances of that debate in this country are slim to none because as soon as you say insurance based schemes everyone only thinks of the USA as an example and not for instance France which is considered to have one of the best health services in the world and was considered that in 2001 by the WHO. Brexit will continue to be the dominant factor in the GE campaign despite the various parties attempts to change that. . Surely you know everybody needs a stick to beat a mantra
Here is andrew neil taking a Tory Mp to task, regarding NHS spending
https://youtu.be/3GpKqznK-wk
Here is a trainee doctor giving their reaction to Boris using the NHS for electioneering
https://youtu.be/dlh7mlNMhP8.
Yes and your not using the NHS for electioneering are you!!!.
I haven't even looked but I'm betting the NHS budget has gone up every year under every government for like 40 years?."Blair 6.1% Brown 5.4% Major 4.7% Thatcher 2.7% Cameron 1.4% The figure for cameron also covers Mrs May up to 2017. Now bear in mind, this is at a time of an aging population that understandably will make more use of the NHS as they age, so as you can see, From Cameron 2012 onwards, the NHS has been gutted. Boris is shamefully using the NHS for electioneering and photo ops, spending money on the NHS in constituencies where the tory party is vulnerable, eg his own constituency | |||
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"Normal socialist propoganda soaked up by dimwits who believe anything." I'm going to bet that you mean about yourself and a bunch of brexshiters | |||
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"Normal socialist propoganda soaked up by dimwits who believe anything." Hey now dont be so hard on yourself...,maybe you’re just a little confused  | |||
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"Does anyone in their right mind really believe this labour propaganda ? Any party selling out the NHS would be committing political suicide and would cease to exist for decades if not for ever.The tories have been running the NHS for more than half its history Corbyn believes if he repeats something enough people will believe him and its sad to say but some do. " Very true | |||
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"Probably not as for 43 of the 71 years the NHS has existed there has been a Conservative government in power, so this mantra of the Tories are going to privatise/sell off the NHS is becoming a bit stale. There has always been private sector involvement in the NHS since it was created. The NHS routinely outsources the equipment and products that it uses and dentistry, eye care, pharmacy and most GP practices are provided by the private sector. We need an honest debate about the future of the NHS as it’s funding model is its weakness. It’s interesting no other nation copies the NHS. Most other countries use compulsory medical insurance schemes either state run or private sector run. However the chances of that debate in this country are slim to none because as soon as you say insurance based schemes everyone only thinks of the USA as an example and not for instance France which is considered to have one of the best health services in the world and was considered that in 2001 by the WHO. Brexit will continue to be the dominant factor in the GE campaign despite the various parties attempts to change that. . Surely you know everybody needs a stick to beat a mantra
Here is andrew neil taking a Tory Mp to task, regarding NHS spending
https://youtu.be/3GpKqznK-wk
Here is a trainee doctor giving their reaction to Boris using the NHS for electioneering
https://youtu.be/dlh7mlNMhP8.
Yes and your not using the NHS for electioneering are you!!!.
I haven't even looked but I'm betting the NHS budget has gone up every year under every government for like 40 years?.
Blair 6.1%
Brown 5.4%
Major 4.7%
Thatcher 2.7%
Cameron 1.4%
The figure for cameron also covers Mrs May up to 2017.
Now bear in mind, this is at a time of an aging population that understandably will make more use of the NHS as they age, so as you can see, From Cameron 2012 onwards, the NHS has been gutted.
Boris is shamefully using the NHS for electioneering and photo ops, spending money on the NHS in constituencies where the tory party is vulnerable, eg his own constituency". Blair and brown practically for most of the time in power was providing budgets during one of the biggest boom periods in modern history, budgets go up and down with income you know like money in money out or labour blew alot of it and then wrote a letter saying sorry there's none left, hence why the NHS budget INCREASE got reduced, in terms of GDP percentage it went from 3% during inception to a high of 7.6% under brown to 7.4% today due to GDP growth being hindered by well a shitty global market. Nowhere in all of those figures does it show that the Tories are desperately underfunding it because they want to sell it off (the only person who did slightly attempt it was Tony Blair and his debt deals will yet come back to haunt us all). It's had a 380 times increase since inception which when adjusted for inflation it a ten fold increase, medical practices have significantly been reduced thanks to innovation and technology but then people have got older and we've had a large spike in population. Problems indeed | |||
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"Not something mentioned 3 years ago, but is this the decision maker for brexiters? The vision that the regular working class didn't include the Tories selling off thr NHS further. It's already being destroyed by tory back door privatisation, (initiated by the closet tory and traitor tony blair) but id this threat a major factor for voters in the GE? " Actually you’ll find because of the previous conservative cuts to the NHS During the thatcher era, it was in dire need of modernisation. Blair has no choice but to introduce the PFI to bring the NHS from the brink, but people seem to forget that. Once again the tories came in they decided in a top down restructure of the NHS to cut costs and now the NHS is once again on the brink. So forget your Blair bashing, the NHS has long been opposed by the conservatives , every time they are I. Government they chip away more and more, and it’s always labour trying to fix it. | |||
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"Probably not as for 43 of the 71 years the NHS has existed there has been a Conservative government in power, so this mantra of the Tories are going to privatise/sell off the NHS is becoming a bit stale. There has always been private sector involvement in the NHS since it was created. The NHS routinely outsources the equipment and products that it uses and dentistry, eye care, pharmacy and most GP practices are provided by the private sector. We need an honest debate about the future of the NHS as it’s funding model is its weakness. It’s interesting no other nation copies the NHS. Most other countries use compulsory medical insurance schemes either state run or private sector run. However the chances of that debate in this country are slim to none because as soon as you say insurance based schemes everyone only thinks of the USA as an example and not for instance France which is considered to have one of the best health services in the world and was considered that in 2001 by the WHO. Brexit will continue to be the dominant factor in the GE campaign despite the various parties attempts to change that. . Surely you know everybody needs a stick to beat a mantra
Here is andrew neil taking a Tory Mp to task, regarding NHS spending
https://youtu.be/3GpKqznK-wk
Here is a trainee doctor giving their reaction to Boris using the NHS for electioneering
https://youtu.be/dlh7mlNMhP8.
Yes and your not using the NHS for electioneering are you!!!.
I haven't even looked but I'm betting the NHS budget has gone up every year under every government for like 40 years?.
Blair 6.1%
Brown 5.4%
Major 4.7%
Thatcher 2.7%
Cameron 1.4%
The figure for cameron also covers Mrs May up to 2017.
Now bear in mind, this is at a time of an aging population that understandably will make more use of the NHS as they age, so as you can see, From Cameron 2012 onwards, the NHS has been gutted.
Boris is shamefully using the NHS for electioneering and photo ops, spending money on the NHS in constituencies where the tory party is vulnerable, eg his own constituency.
Blair and brown practically for most of the time in power was providing budgets during one of the biggest boom periods in modern history, budgets go up and down with income you know like money in money out or labour blew alot of it and then wrote a letter saying sorry there's none left, hence why the NHS budget INCREASE got reduced, in terms of GDP percentage it went from 3% during inception to a high of 7.6% under brown to 7.4% today due to GDP growth being hindered by well a shitty global market.
Nowhere in all of those figures does it show that the Tories are desperately underfunding it because they want to sell it off (the only person who did slightly attempt it was Tony Blair and his debt deals will yet come back to haunt us all).
It's had a 380 times increase since inception which when adjusted for inflation it a ten fold increase, medical practices have significantly been reduced thanks to innovation and technology but then people have got older and we've had a large spike in population.
Problems indeed "So you see how the numbers show you would have lost your bet? Surely Mrs Thatcher could have spent more on going on that logic, the economy grew under her leadership. But if you want to ignore the numbers, here are some other facts, maybe you're not a facts guy, IDK. Michael Portillo said the conservatives concealed their plans for the NHS because "They did not believe they could win an election if they told you what they were going to do because people are so wedded to the NHS." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-12250186/nhs-reforms-were-potential-vote-loser-portillo Several Conservatives and their backers have financial interests in NHS privatisation. Jeremy Hunt contributed a book advocating for the NHS to be dismantled, Tory MEP Daniel Hannan called the NHS a " 60 year mistake. Tory MP Peter Bone called the NHS stalinist. "it would be political suicide for a party to introduce [charging for NHS services]. They could only really do it if there was a feeling in the country that health services were falling apart" Paul Charlson Chair of Conservative Health The Health & Social Act passed under Cameron's administration "removed responsibility for the health of citizens from the Secretary of State for Health, which the post had carried since the inception of the NHS in 1948. It abolished NHS primary care trusts (PCTs) and Strategic Health Authorities (SHAs) and transferred between £60 billion and £80 billion of "commissioning", or health care funds, from the abolished PCTs to several hundred "clinical commissioning groups", partly run by the general practitioners (GPs) in England but a major point of access for private service providers." Have a think about the above information, You have the figures on NHS spending, the words of Conservatives, their financial interests in NHS privatisation, and the legislation. But if you want to believe 'the nhs is safe in our hands", it appears you're very resistant to facts. | |||
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"Probably not as for 43 of the 71 years the NHS has existed there has been a Conservative government in power, so this mantra of the Tories are going to privatise/sell off the NHS is becoming a bit stale. There has always been private sector involvement in the NHS since it was created. The NHS routinely outsources the equipment and products that it uses and dentistry, eye care, pharmacy and most GP practices are provided by the private sector. We need an honest debate about the future of the NHS as it’s funding model is its weakness. It’s interesting no other nation copies the NHS. Most other countries use compulsory medical insurance schemes either state run or private sector run. However the chances of that debate in this country are slim to none because as soon as you say insurance based schemes everyone only thinks of the USA as an example and not for instance France which is considered to have one of the best health services in the world and was considered that in 2001 by the WHO. Brexit will continue to be the dominant factor in the GE campaign despite the various parties attempts to change that. . Surely you know everybody needs a stick to beat a mantra
Here is andrew neil taking a Tory Mp to task, regarding NHS spending
https://youtu.be/3GpKqznK-wk
Here is a trainee doctor giving their reaction to Boris using the NHS for electioneering
https://youtu.be/dlh7mlNMhP8.
Yes and your not using the NHS for electioneering are you!!!.
I haven't even looked but I'm betting the NHS budget has gone up every year under every government for like 40 years?.
Blair 6.1%
Brown 5.4%
Major 4.7%
Thatcher 2.7%
Cameron 1.4%
The figure for cameron also covers Mrs May up to 2017.
Now bear in mind, this is at a time of an aging population that understandably will make more use of the NHS as they age, so as you can see, From Cameron 2012 onwards, the NHS has been gutted.
Boris is shamefully using the NHS for electioneering and photo ops, spending money on the NHS in constituencies where the tory party is vulnerable, eg his own constituency.
Blair and brown practically for most of the time in power was providing budgets during one of the biggest boom periods in modern history, budgets go up and down with income you know like money in money out or labour blew alot of it and then wrote a letter saying sorry there's none left, hence why the NHS budget INCREASE got reduced, in terms of GDP percentage it went from 3% during inception to a high of 7.6% under brown to 7.4% today due to GDP growth being hindered by well a shitty global market.
Nowhere in all of those figures does it show that the Tories are desperately underfunding it because they want to sell it off (the only person who did slightly attempt it was Tony Blair and his debt deals will yet come back to haunt us all).
It's had a 380 times increase since inception which when adjusted for inflation it a ten fold increase, medical practices have significantly been reduced thanks to innovation and technology but then people have got older and we've had a large spike in population.
Problems indeed "No mention of the meetings that have been held between the USA and UK recently, where the US insist that our health services are a component of trade deals, nor Trump insisting that foreign countries must pay more for their meds. | |||
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"Normal socialist propoganda soaked up by dimwits who believe anything." Oh? Perhaps you could explain why the Tories removed central funding, pharmaceutical companies now charging the nhs (via your taxes) paracetamol costing £10 per box when it's undwr £1 in chemist shops. | |||
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"Normal socialist propoganda soaked up by dimwits who believe anything." Classic projection? | |||
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"The NHS is the last nationalised industry still standing. Every other one has been dismantled and flogged off under Conservative rule for ideological reasons. They would do the same to the NHS without a moment's hesitation. They see it as a socialist creation. All that stops them is the fear of the backlash from voters. Most voters know the NHS isn't perfect. But they also know its there when they need it most, and any political party messes with that at their peril. Yes, the US does have its eyes on the NHS - it is in their published negotiating strategy for US/UK talks. My worry is the UK will be in a such a comparatively weak negotiating position that the only administration that will resist is one with an ideological commitment to the NHS. That is not the Conservative Party. " Andrew marr ask mcdonell why the usa would do that when they have struck deals with australia and canada whos health services are free at the point of delivery the same as the uk,s and still are his only answer was i dont trust boris. | |||
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"The evidence is out in the open. The US position paper for negotiations with the UK has NHS pharma at no. 2 or no. 3. The UK currently pays about £18bn a year for US medicines. The US wants £48bn. That is the starting point for horse trading. Is the NHS on the table, the US ambassador was asked. Yes, he replied. Is the NHS on the table, Trump was asked. Yes, he replied. He backtracked only after one of his chums - Farage or Morgan - told him he'd made a howler. " The answer was everything is on the table which is true when you go into negotiations (unless your remain mp,s have made it law that its not ) that does not mean its up for sale.Why do you think the NHS is used as a football every election? no one will sell it off they would cease to exist as a party if they did you know that i know that and im pretty sure the tory party know that. | |||
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"I made the same point earlier. This is about the predatory instincts of the US, and who you trust more to protect the NHS from them. " well to be honest with the NHS i would trust any of them. | |||
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"I made the same point earlier. This is about the predatory instincts of the US, and who you trust more to protect the NHS from them. well to be honest with the NHS i would trust any of them." Surveys show voters tend to have more faith in Labour than Conservative when it comes to the NHS. This is why Labour always wants to make the NHS an election issue, and why the Conservatives have to work harder to counter people's intuition about them. | |||
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"I made the same point earlier. This is about the predatory instincts of the US, and who you trust more to protect the NHS from them. well to be honest with the NHS i would trust any of them. Surveys show voters tend to have more faith in Labour than Conservative when it comes to the NHS. This is why Labour always wants to make the NHS an election issue, and why the Conservatives have to work harder to counter people's intuition about them. " Of course because labour like to own it and sure they have to work harder especially when you have a party saying at every opportunity that they will sell it off when they know its simply not true.Unfortunately this is the way politics is going these days labour know they are on a hiding about brexit so try to scare the electorate with the thing they hold most dear the NHS. | |||
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" Of course because labour like to own it and sure they have to work harder especially when you have a party saying at every opportunity that they will sell it off when they know its simply not true.Unfortunately this is the way politics is going these days labour know they are on a hiding about brexit so try to scare the electorate with the thing they hold most dear the NHS. " Lololol well, it worked for your Leave chums in 2016 when they realised the NHS is the issue that resonates with most voters and found a neat way to tie the wellbeing of the NHS to the big bad EU  | |||
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" Of course because labour like to own it and sure they have to work harder especially when you have a party saying at every opportunity that they will sell it off when they know its simply not true.Unfortunately this is the way politics is going these days labour know they are on a hiding about brexit so try to scare the electorate with the thing they hold most dear the NHS. Lololol well, it worked for your Leave chums in 2016 when they realised the NHS is the issue that resonates with most voters and found a neat way to tie the wellbeing of the NHS to the big bad EU "how was that then? | |||
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" Lololol well, it worked for your Leave chums in 2016 when they realised the NHS is the issue that resonates with most voters and found a neat way to tie the wellbeing of the NHS to the big bad EU how was that then?"Big Red Bus | |||
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"I made the same point earlier. This is about the predatory instincts of the US, and who you trust more to protect the NHS from them. " So when Canada and Australia signed free trade agreements with the USA were their health services sold off to US corporations ?? Strangely enough they weren’t, so where does this hysterical mantra that we’re going to sell the NHS to American corporations come from ?? I seem to remember in 2014 Labours pre election claim there were only 48 hours to save the NHS and over 5 years later it’s still here. Today Labour are saying they’ll bring back the bursary for nurses. Why only nurses ?? Why not doctors, radiographers, physiotherapists, occupational therapists and all the other allied health care professionals ?? The bursary perversely capped nurse recruitment as once all the money for bursaries was spent for that financial year no more nurses could be recruited. Has anyone checked the drop out rate for nurses now that it is a degree course ?? There’s a possible reason for the nurse shortage, they can’t meet the academic standards. No amount of money thrown at the NHS will reduce the training time for doctors and nurses (3 and 8 years respectively). So perhaps we should do as the NHS has asked and stop using them as a weapon in the GE. | |||
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"I made the same point earlier. This is about the predatory instincts of the US, and who you trust more to protect the NHS from them. So when Canada and Australia signed free trade agreements with the USA were their health services sold off to US corporations ?? Strangely enough they weren’t, so where does this hysterical mantra that we’re going to sell the NHS to American corporations come from ?? I seem to remember in 2014 Labours pre election claim there were only 48 hours to save the NHS and over 5 years later it’s still here. Today Labour are saying they’ll bring back the bursary for nurses. Why only nurses ?? Why not doctors, radiographers, physiotherapists, occupational therapists and all the other allied health care professionals ?? The bursary perversely capped nurse recruitment as once all the money for bursaries was spent for that financial year no more nurses could be recruited. Has anyone checked the drop out rate for nurses now that it is a degree course ?? There’s a possible reason for the nurse shortage, they can’t meet the academic standards. No amount of money thrown at the NHS will reduce the training time for doctors and nurses (3 and 8 years respectively). So perhaps we should do as the NHS has asked and stop using them as a weapon in the GE." Exactly andrew marr ask mc donnell the same question yesterday he couldnt answer. | |||
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"Do labour want to sell the nhs?" Nope but the Tories are on board with the plan to sell it off to the US. | |||
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"Do labour want to sell the nhs? Nope but the Tories are on board with the plan to sell it off to the US." You have no proof of that, no proof at all. | |||
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"When you have Secretaries of State for Health who have authored policy papers on how to dismantle the NHS and replace with US-style healthcare, it's a bit of a clue about what they really think. " Pah! You're just trying to confuse us with your facts and your logic! | |||
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"Any proof or just hear say?" I'm repeating a comment I made earlier in this thread Here is andrew neil taking a Tory Mp to task, regarding NHS spending https://youtu.be/3GpKqznK-wk Here is a trainee doctor giving their reaction to Boris using the NHS for electioneering https://youtu.be/dlh7mlNMhP8. These are the figures for NHS spending increases Blair 6.1% Brown 5.4% Major 4.7% Thatcher 2.7% Cameron 1.4% The figure for cameron also covers Mrs May up to 2017. Now bear in mind, this is at a time of an aging population that understandably will make more use of the NHS as they age, so as you can see, From Cameron 2012 onwards, the NHS has been gutted. Boris is shamefully using the NHS for electioneering and photo ops, spending money on the NHS in constituencies where the tory party is vulnerable, eg his own constituency. Michael Portillo said the conservatives concealed their plans for the NHS because "They did not believe they could win an election if they told you what they were going to do because people are so wedded to the NHS." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-12250186/nhs-reforms-were-potential-vote-loser-portillo Several Conservatives and their backers have financial interests in NHS privatisation. Jeremy Hunt contributed a book advocating for the NHS to be dismantled, Tory MEP Daniel Hannan called the NHS a " 60 year mistake. Tory MP Peter Bone called the NHS stalinist. "it would be political suicide for a party to introduce [charging for NHS services]. They could only really do it if there was a feeling in the country that health services were falling apart" Paul Charlson Chair of Conservative Health The Health & Social Act passed under Cameron's administration "removed responsibility for the health of citizens from the Secretary of State for Health, which the post had carried since the inception of the NHS in 1948. It abolished NHS primary care trusts (PCTs) and Strategic Health Authorities (SHAs) and transferred between £60 billion and £80 billion of "commissioning", or health care funds, from the abolished PCTs to several hundred "clinical commissioning groups", partly run by the general practitioners (GPs) in England but a major point of access for private service providers." Have a think about the above information, You have the figures on NHS spending, the words of Conservatives, their financial interests in NHS privatisation, and the legislation. But if you want to believe 'the nhs is safe in our hands", it appears you're very resistant to facts. Now if that's not enough Woody Johnson, US ambassador to the UK has said that they will want access to the NHS for the purposes of offering 'choice' as part of a trade agreement with the UK. | |||
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"Just watch a video of Dominic Cummings saying that Tory MPs on the whole couldn't care less about the NHS because they couldn't care less about the ordinary Joe. " Just seen a news item that secret meetings between the Tories and American pharmaceutical companies. | |||
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"Just watch a video of Dominic Cummings saying that Tory MPs on the whole couldn't care less about the NHS because they couldn't care less about the ordinary Joe. Just seen a news item that secret meetings between the Tories and American pharmaceutical companies. " And which Tories" were at these meetings? | |||
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"Does anyone in their right mind really believe this labour propaganda ? Any party selling out the NHS would be committing political suicide and would cease to exist for decades if not for ever.The tories have been running the NHS for more than half its history Corbyn believes if he repeats something enough people will believe him and its sad to say but some do. The Tories won't openly do that, theyre far to sneaky. They'll use a scapegoat or some sly shit to avert the blame. The Tories hate stuff like the nhs but arnt stupid " Utter bullshit. Never met a single person in the UK that didn't love it, though the waste within it needs sorting. | |||
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"Does anyone in their right mind really believe this labour propaganda ? Any party selling out the NHS would be committing political suicide and would cease to exist for decades if not for ever.The tories have been running the NHS for more than half its history Corbyn believes if he repeats something enough people will believe him and its sad to say but some do. " But they love to hate, so they need to manufacture justification for their hatred. Ironic. | |||
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"Just watch a video of Dominic Cummings saying that Tory MPs on the whole couldn't care less about the NHS because they couldn't care less about the ordinary Joe. Just seen a news item that secret meetings between the Tories and American pharmaceutical companies. And which Tories" were at these meetings? " These are the opening rounds of talks between US and UK negotiators. I do not know if the UK has published its negotiating position. The US has. Pharma and access to the NHS by US companies is number 2 or 3 on its list. Basically, Pharma in US wants the NHS to pay a lot more for the drugs its buys. NHS currently pays about £18bn a year for imports from the US. US Pharma reckons NHS should be paying £48bn or so for those drugs. This is where Labour gets its line the NHS will be £500m a week worse off if we have to do a trade deal with the US. | |||
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"Just watch a video of Dominic Cummings saying that Tory MPs on the whole couldn't care less about the NHS because they couldn't care less about the ordinary Joe. Just seen a news item that secret meetings between the Tories and American pharmaceutical companies. And which Tories" were at these meetings? These are the opening rounds of talks between US and UK negotiators. I do not know if the UK has published its negotiating position. The US has. Pharma and access to the NHS by US companies is number 2 or 3 on its list. Basically, Pharma in US wants the NHS to pay a lot more for the drugs its buys. NHS currently pays about £18bn a year for imports from the US. US Pharma reckons NHS should be paying £48bn or so for those drugs. This is where Labour gets its line the NHS will be £500m a week worse off if we have to do a trade deal with the US. " So this is the big juicy Brexit bonus of a US trade deal certain members of this forum have been bleating on about for over 3 years.... We'd be free to pay £30 Billion extra for the same shit we get now
Silly me, why didn't I see the logic in this 3 years ago...
I'm a convert now | |||
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"Just watch a video of Dominic Cummings saying that Tory MPs on the whole couldn't care less about the NHS because they couldn't care less about the ordinary Joe. Just seen a news item that secret meetings between the Tories and American pharmaceutical companies. And which Tories" were at these meetings? These are the opening rounds of talks between US and UK negotiators. I do not know if the UK has published its negotiating position. The US has. Pharma and access to the NHS by US companies is number 2 or 3 on its list. Basically, Pharma in US wants the NHS to pay a lot more for the drugs its buys. NHS currently pays about £18bn a year for imports from the US. US Pharma reckons NHS should be paying £48bn or so for those drugs. This is where Labour gets its line the NHS will be £500m a week worse off if we have to do a trade deal with the US. So this is the big juicy Brexit bonus of a US trade deal certain members of this forum have been bleating on about for over 3 years.... We'd be free to pay £30 Billion extra for the same shit we get now
Silly me, why didn't I see the logic in this 3 years ago...
I'm a convert now "You obviously believe what mr corbyn feeds you and have no understanding of how it works.Australia buy their drugs from the usa do they pay the same price? no.Most countries have regulatory bodies that decide what drugs are worth buying and at what price, they also buy in bulk which gives them a great bargaining chip.The pharmaceutical business in th usa has no such regulatory body and the industry sells to multiple health insurance companies which means they can keep their price high.Try doing a bit of research before buying corbyn,s propaganda. | |||
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"Watch the Dispatches documentary on US pharma and the NHS, broadcast on Ch 4 nine days ago. Read the US negotiating paper on the White House website. This is not a story manufactured by Labour. It is a consequence of the UK exiting the customs union in order to strike trade deals from a weaker negotiating position. US pharma scents the weakness of the UK position. In the White House it has an ally whose only objective is to maximise opportunities for US business. Don't be surprised if the Trident missiles turn up somewhere, too. Under a 60-year-old agreement, the Mutual Defence Agreement, the UK gets them for a song - cost price, plus 5% (as a contribution to R & D). Lockhead Martin makes no money selling US technology to the UK." so the uk is going to get a worse deal with a customer base of 66.44 million than australia with a population of 25 million? you obviously dont understand business. | |||
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"Watch the Dispatches documentary on US pharma and the NHS, broadcast on Ch 4 nine days ago. Read the US negotiating paper on the White House website. This is not a story manufactured by Labour. It is a consequence of the UK exiting the customs union in order to strike trade deals from a weaker negotiating position. US pharma scents the weakness of the UK position. In the White House it has an ally whose only objective is to maximise opportunities for US business. Don't be surprised if the Trident missiles turn up somewhere, too. Under a 60-year-old agreement, the Mutual Defence Agreement, the UK gets them for a song - cost price, plus 5% (as a contribution to R & D). Lockhead Martin makes no money selling US technology to the UK.so the uk is going to get a worse deal with a customer base of 66.44 million than australia with a population of 25 million? you obviously dont understand business." So if we are part of a group of say 500 million we have more leverage.. | |||
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"Just watch a video of Dominic Cummings saying that Tory MPs on the whole couldn't care less about the NHS because they couldn't care less about the ordinary Joe. Just seen a news item that secret meetings between the Tories and American pharmaceutical companies. And which Tories" were at these meetings? These are the opening rounds of talks between US and UK negotiators. I do not know if the UK has published its negotiating position. The US has. Pharma and access to the NHS by US companies is number 2 or 3 on its list. Basically, Pharma in US wants the NHS to pay a lot more for the drugs its buys. NHS currently pays about £18bn a year for imports from the US. US Pharma reckons NHS should be paying £48bn or so for those drugs. This is where Labour gets its line the NHS will be £500m a week worse off if we have to do a trade deal with the US. So this is the big juicy Brexit bonus of a US trade deal certain members of this forum have been bleating on about for over 3 years.... We'd be free to pay £30 Billion extra for the same shit we get now
Silly me, why didn't I see the logic in this 3 years ago...
I'm a convert now
You obviously believe what mr corbyn feeds you and have no understanding of how it works.Australia buy their drugs from the usa do they pay the same price? no.Most countries have regulatory bodies that decide what drugs are worth buying and at what price, they also buy in bulk which gives them a great bargaining chip.The pharmaceutical business in th usa has no such regulatory body and the industry sells to multiple health insurance companies which means they can keep their price high.Try doing a bit of research before buying corbyn,s propaganda. "If you cared to notice I was replying to another person on this thread which I quoted then based my light humoured reply to what they had said so I wasn't fed anything mate, unlike many | |||
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"Watch the Dispatches documentary on US pharma and the NHS, broadcast on Ch 4 nine days ago. Read the US negotiating paper on the White House website. This is not a story manufactured by Labour. It is a consequence of the UK exiting the customs union in order to strike trade deals from a weaker negotiating position. US pharma scents the weakness of the UK position. In the White House it has an ally whose only objective is to maximise opportunities for US business. Don't be surprised if the Trident missiles turn up somewhere, too. Under a 60-year-old agreement, the Mutual Defence Agreement, the UK gets them for a song - cost price, plus 5% (as a contribution to R & D). Lockhead Martin makes no money selling US technology to the UK.so the uk is going to get a worse deal with a customer base of 66.44 million than australia with a population of 25 million? you obviously dont understand business. So if we are part of a group of say 500 million we have more leverage.. "Ohh for fucks sake Bob don't make them look stupid using their own logic against them | |||
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"Just watch a video of Dominic Cummings saying that Tory MPs on the whole couldn't care less about the NHS because they couldn't care less about the ordinary Joe. Just seen a news item that secret meetings between the Tories and American pharmaceutical companies. And which Tories" were at these meetings? These are the opening rounds of talks between US and UK negotiators. I do not know if the UK has published its negotiating position. The US has. Pharma and access to the NHS by US companies is number 2 or 3 on its list. Basically, Pharma in US wants the NHS to pay a lot more for the drugs its buys. NHS currently pays about £18bn a year for imports from the US. US Pharma reckons NHS should be paying £48bn or so for those drugs. This is where Labour gets its line the NHS will be £500m a week worse off if we have to do a trade deal with the US. " So it was Civil Servants at these meetings, and not the Tories. The UK buys around 7% of its drug supply from the USA. Some of these drugs we can only get from the US. Their pharma companies did the research and own the patents/manufacturing rights. Its only right and proper that our civil servants get, and continue to get, the very best price for these drugs. Every country does it. Trump has made it very clear that he feels that the UK and the EU are getting preferential prices. As sure as night is night, he is bound to use this in his upcoming re-election campaign. He won't care that the USA has such rubbish deals with their own pharma companies. He will always paint as the bad guy. In this context, it's imperative that we keep aiming for the best drugs deals, just as we do now. That's not "selling the NHS to the US". Should the US play hardball, we have the option re-evaluation and maybe of walking away. American companies already have access to varied functions in the NHS. We have not "sold the NHS to the US", rather we have given them the option of tendering along with other companies. Urban myths and heresay surround the Conservatives and the NHS. Despite denials from the PM, and the Health Secretary, there is no proof that any one in the Conservative Party is "selling the NHS to the USA" | |||
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"Watch the Dispatches documentary on US pharma and the NHS, broadcast on Ch 4 nine days ago. Read the US negotiating paper on the White House website. This is not a story manufactured by Labour. It is a consequence of the UK exiting the customs union in order to strike trade deals from a weaker negotiating position. US pharma scents the weakness of the UK position. In the White House it has an ally whose only objective is to maximise opportunities for US business. Don't be surprised if the Trident missiles turn up somewhere, too. Under a 60-year-old agreement, the Mutual Defence Agreement, the UK gets them for a song - cost price, plus 5% (as a contribution to R & D). Lockhead Martin makes no money selling US technology to the UK.so the uk is going to get a worse deal with a customer base of 66.44 million than australia with a population of 25 million? you obviously dont understand business. So if we are part of a group of say 500 million we have more leverage.. "of course bob but have to pay to be in the 500 million and have to go along with what they want.Time to stand on our own two feet and decide our destiny. | |||
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"Just watch a video of Dominic Cummings saying that Tory MPs on the whole couldn't care less about the NHS because they couldn't care less about the ordinary Joe. Just seen a news item that secret meetings between the Tories and American pharmaceutical companies. And which Tories" were at these meetings? These are the opening rounds of talks between US and UK negotiators. I do not know if the UK has published its negotiating position. The US has. Pharma and access to the NHS by US companies is number 2 or 3 on its list. Basically, Pharma in US wants the NHS to pay a lot more for the drugs its buys. NHS currently pays about £18bn a year for imports from the US. US Pharma reckons NHS should be paying £48bn or so for those drugs. This is where Labour gets its line the NHS will be £500m a week worse off if we have to do a trade deal with the US. So it was Civil Servants at these meetings, and not the Tories. The UK buys around 7% of its drug supply from the USA. Some of these drugs we can only get from the US. Their pharma companies did the research and own the patents/manufacturing rights. Its only right and proper that our civil servants get, and continue to get, the very best price for these drugs. Every country does it. Trump has made it very clear that he feels that the UK and the EU are getting preferential prices. As sure as night is night, he is bound to use this in his upcoming re-election campaign. He won't care that the USA has such rubbish deals with their own pharma companies. He will always paint as the bad guy. In this context, it's imperative that we keep aiming for the best drugs deals, just as we do now. That's not "selling the NHS to the US". Should the US play hardball, we have the option re-evaluation and maybe of walking away. American companies already have access to varied functions in the NHS. We have not "sold the NHS to the US", rather we have given them the option of tendering along with other companies. Urban myths and heresay surround the Conservatives and the NHS. Despite denials from the PM, and the Health Secretary, there is no proof that any one in the Conservative Party is "selling the NHS to the USA" " I'm in complete agreement with you on this. Or at least I was untill you pointed out that the PM (Johnson) had issued a denial that it would ever happen. Will he lay down in front of a bulldozer to stop it, or die in a ditch trying? Maybe he'll die in a ditch in front of a bulldozer to stop it. If you (the Tory Party) choose the most untrustworthy person in politics as your leader you can't really be that surprised when no one trust what you say. | |||
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"Just watch a video of Dominic Cummings saying that Tory MPs on the whole couldn't care less about the NHS because they couldn't care less about the ordinary Joe. Just seen a news item that secret meetings between the Tories and American pharmaceutical companies. And which Tories" were at these meetings? These are the opening rounds of talks between US and UK negotiators. I do not know if the UK has published its negotiating position. The US has. Pharma and access to the NHS by US companies is number 2 or 3 on its list. Basically, Pharma in US wants the NHS to pay a lot more for the drugs its buys. NHS currently pays about £18bn a year for imports from the US. US Pharma reckons NHS should be paying £48bn or so for those drugs. This is where Labour gets its line the NHS will be £500m a week worse off if we have to do a trade deal with the US. So it was Civil Servants at these meetings, and not the Tories. The UK buys around 7% of its drug supply from the USA. Some of these drugs we can only get from the US. Their pharma companies did the research and own the patents/manufacturing rights. Its only right and proper that our civil servants get, and continue to get, the very best price for these drugs. Every country does it. Trump has made it very clear that he feels that the UK and the EU are getting preferential prices. As sure as night is night, he is bound to use this in his upcoming re-election campaign. He won't care that the USA has such rubbish deals with their own pharma companies. He will always paint as the bad guy. In this context, it's imperative that we keep aiming for the best drugs deals, just as we do now. That's not "selling the NHS to the US". Should the US play hardball, we have the option re-evaluation and maybe of walking away. American companies already have access to varied functions in the NHS. We have not "sold the NHS to the US", rather we have given them the option of tendering along with other companies. Urban myths and heresay surround the Conservatives and the NHS. Despite denials from the PM, and the Health Secretary, there is no proof that any one in the Conservative Party is "selling the NHS to the USA" I'm in complete agreement with you on this. Or at least I was untill you pointed out that the PM (Johnson) had issued a denial that it would ever happen. Will he lay down in front of a bulldozer to stop it, or die in a ditch trying? Maybe he'll die in a ditch in front of a bulldozer to stop it. If you (the Tory Party) choose the most untrustworthy person in politics as your leader you can't really be that surprised when no one trust what you say. " I take your point. Its valid and pertinent. I'm not a Boris Johnson supporter. No am I a fan of the many shenanigans that seem to be going on. For the first time ever, I won't be voting Conservative. They need, as a party, to get my trust back. I truely believe (as these things tend to be cyclic anyway), that Labour will be given the first chance to form a Government after the GE, although I would much prefer them to go and win the election, rather than just let the Conservatives lose it. | |||
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"Just watch a video of Dominic Cummings saying that Tory MPs on the whole couldn't care less about the NHS because they couldn't care less about the ordinary Joe. Just seen a news item that secret meetings between the Tories and American pharmaceutical companies. And which Tories" were at these meetings? These are the opening rounds of talks between US and UK negotiators. I do not know if the UK has published its negotiating position. The US has. Pharma and access to the NHS by US companies is number 2 or 3 on its list. Basically, Pharma in US wants the NHS to pay a lot more for the drugs its buys. NHS currently pays about £18bn a year for imports from the US. US Pharma reckons NHS should be paying £48bn or so for those drugs. This is where Labour gets its line the NHS will be £500m a week worse off if we have to do a trade deal with the US. So it was Civil Servants at these meetings, and not the Tories. The UK buys around 7% of its drug supply from the USA. Some of these drugs we can only get from the US. Their pharma companies did the research and own the patents/manufacturing rights. Its only right and proper that our civil servants get, and continue to get, the very best price for these drugs. Every country does it. Trump has made it very clear that he feels that the UK and the EU are getting preferential prices. As sure as night is night, he is bound to use this in his upcoming re-election campaign. He won't care that the USA has such rubbish deals with their own pharma companies. He will always paint as the bad guy. In this context, it's imperative that we keep aiming for the best drugs deals, just as we do now. That's not "selling the NHS to the US". Should the US play hardball, we have the option re-evaluation and maybe of walking away. American companies already have access to varied functions in the NHS. We have not "sold the NHS to the US", rather we have given them the option of tendering along with other companies. Urban myths and heresay surround the Conservatives and the NHS. Despite denials from the PM, and the Health Secretary, there is no proof that any one in the Conservative Party is "selling the NHS to the USA" I'm in complete agreement with you on this. Or at least I was untill you pointed out that the PM (Johnson) had issued a denial that it would ever happen. Will he lay down in front of a bulldozer to stop it, or die in a ditch trying? Maybe he'll die in a ditch in front of a bulldozer to stop it. If you (the Tory Party) choose the most untrustworthy person in politics as your leader you can't really be that surprised when no one trust what you say. " After all thats been going on after the last 3 years what part of the PM does not have power over parliament its not a dictatorship do you not understand? | |||
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"Just watch a video of Dominic Cummings saying that Tory MPs on the whole couldn't care less about the NHS because they couldn't care less about the ordinary Joe. Just seen a news item that secret meetings between the Tories and American pharmaceutical companies. And which Tories" were at these meetings? " Don't know, it was secret | |||
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"Just watch a video of Dominic Cummings saying that Tory MPs on the whole couldn't care less about the NHS because they couldn't care less about the ordinary Joe. Just seen a news item that secret meetings between the Tories and American pharmaceutical companies. And which Tories" were at these meetings? Don't know, it was secret "was quoted to be Channel 4 sources | |||
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"Just watch a video of Dominic Cummings saying that Tory MPs on the whole couldn't care less about the NHS because they couldn't care less about the ordinary Joe. Just seen a news item that secret meetings between the Tories and American pharmaceutical companies. And which Tories" were at these meetings? Don't know, it was secret was quoted to be
Channel 4 sources "High level trade negotiations do tend to be held in secret. The fact is that it was between civil servants, not politicians. | |||
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"Just watch a video of Dominic Cummings saying that Tory MPs on the whole couldn't care less about the NHS because they couldn't care less about the ordinary Joe. Just seen a news item that secret meetings between the Tories and American pharmaceutical companies. And which Tories" were at these meetings? Don't know, it was secret was quoted to be
Channel 4 sources
High level trade negotiations do tend to be held in secret.
The fact is that it was between civil servants, not politicians. "Under instructions from the government | |||
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"Watch the Dispatches documentary on US pharma and the NHS, broadcast on Ch 4 nine days ago. Read the US negotiating paper on the White House website. This is not a story manufactured by Labour. It is a consequence of the UK exiting the customs union in order to strike trade deals from a weaker negotiating position. US pharma scents the weakness of the UK position. In the White House it has an ally whose only objective is to maximise opportunities for US business. Don't be surprised if the Trident missiles turn up somewhere, too. Under a 60-year-old agreement, the Mutual Defence Agreement, the UK gets them for a song - cost price, plus 5% (as a contribution to R & D). Lockhead Martin makes no money selling US technology to the UK.so the uk is going to get a worse deal with a customer base of 66.44 million than australia with a population of 25 million? you obviously dont understand business. So if we are part of a group of say 500 million we have more leverage.. of course bob but have to pay to be in the 500 million and have to go along with what they want.Time to stand on our own two feet and decide our destiny. "So from a business perspective it’s better be part of the 500 million .. | |||
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Some of them even spend a whole lifetime working for it at the sharp end. And STILL vote Tory. Wonder why that might be.
Oh and if I take the best legal advice and follow it, and then later, AFTER the event, some court comes along and rules the action was unlawful, in hindsight - it doesn't mean I went out and deliberately did something illegal, nor that I lied.
It simply means a court made a judgement on a past event, they may even have moved the goalposts, and disagreeing with that judgement is a perfectly valid position too. | |||
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"Watch the Dispatches documentary on US pharma and the NHS, broadcast on Ch 4 nine days ago. Read the US negotiating paper on the White House website. This is not a story manufactured by Labour. It is a consequence of the UK exiting the customs union in order to strike trade deals from a weaker negotiating position. US pharma scents the weakness of the UK position. In the White House it has an ally whose only objective is to maximise opportunities for US business. Don't be surprised if the Trident missiles turn up somewhere, too. Under a 60-year-old agreement, the Mutual Defence Agreement, the UK gets them for a song - cost price, plus 5% (as a contribution to R & D). Lockhead Martin makes no money selling US technology to the UK.so the uk is going to get a worse deal with a customer base of 66.44 million than australia with a population of 25 million? you obviously dont understand business. So if we are part of a group of say 500 million we have more leverage.. of course bob but have to pay to be in the 500 million and have to go along with what they want.Time to stand on our own two feet and decide our destiny.
So from a business perspective it’s better be part of the 500 million .. "Well that is up for debate if you are paying more to be in the 500 million than you will get out of being in it.  | |||
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"Just watch a video of Dominic Cummings saying that Tory MPs on the whole couldn't care less about the NHS because they couldn't care less about the ordinary Joe. Just seen a news item that secret meetings between the Tories and American pharmaceutical companies. And which Tories" were at these meetings? These are the opening rounds of talks between US and UK negotiators. I do not know if the UK has published its negotiating position. The US has. Pharma and access to the NHS by US companies is number 2 or 3 on its list. Basically, Pharma in US wants the NHS to pay a lot more for the drugs its buys. NHS currently pays about £18bn a year for imports from the US. US Pharma reckons NHS should be paying £48bn or so for those drugs. This is where Labour gets its line the NHS will be £500m a week worse off if we have to do a trade deal with the US. So it was Civil Servants at these meetings, and not the Tories. The UK buys around 7% of its drug supply from the USA. Some of these drugs we can only get from the US. Their pharma companies did the research and own the patents/manufacturing rights. Its only right and proper that our civil servants get, and continue to get, the very best price for these drugs. Every country does it. Trump has made it very clear that he feels that the UK and the EU are getting preferential prices. As sure as night is night, he is bound to use this in his upcoming re-election campaign. He won't care that the USA has such rubbish deals with their own pharma companies. He will always paint as the bad guy. In this context, it's imperative that we keep aiming for the best drugs deals, just as we do now. That's not "selling the NHS to the US". Should the US play hardball, we have the option re-evaluation and maybe of walking away. American companies already have access to varied functions in the NHS. We have not "sold the NHS to the US", rather we have given them the option of tendering along with other companies. Urban myths and heresay surround the Conservatives and the NHS. Despite denials from the PM, and the Health Secretary, there is no proof that any one in the Conservative Party is "selling the NHS to the USA" I'm in complete agreement with you on this. Or at least I was untill you pointed out that the PM (Johnson) had issued a denial that it would ever happen. Will he lay down in front of a bulldozer to stop it, or die in a ditch trying? Maybe he'll die in a ditch in front of a bulldozer to stop it. If you (the Tory Party) choose the most untrustworthy person in politics as your leader you can't really be that surprised when no one trust what you say. After all thats been going on after the last 3 years what part of the PM does not have power over parliament its not a dictatorship do you not understand? " What, in anything I've said on this thread or anywhere, has anything to do with dictatorships or otherwise? I simply don't trust Johnson. I believe he will say and do anything for his own good and make any reckless promise, however unlikely it might be for him to fulfill it, if it gets him what he wants. If he was a man of his word he'd be dead in a ditch probably in front of a bulldozer but he isn't, is he? | |||
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"Does anyone in their right mind really believe this labour propaganda ? Any party selling out the NHS would be committing political suicide and would cease to exist for decades if not for ever.The tories have been running the NHS for more than half its history Corbyn believes if he repeats something enough people will believe him and its sad to say but some do. " There is a lot of misinformation on both sides of the argument when it comes to the NHS. There are half truths. But genuinely there are problems in the NHS, and the tories have had their chance, time for labour to take control again and stop the rot from setting in. | |||
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"Does anyone in their right mind really believe this labour propaganda ? Any party selling out the NHS would be committing political suicide and would cease to exist for decades if not for ever.The tories have been running the NHS for more than half its history Corbyn believes if he repeats something enough people will believe him and its sad to say but some do. There is a lot of misinformation on both sides of the argument when it comes to the NHS. There are half truths. But genuinely there are problems in the NHS, and the tories have had their chance, time for labour to take control again and stop the rot from setting in." I was agreeing with everything you said until you got to the bit about labour having their chance, certainly not with Corbyn in charge anyway. | |||
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"Does anyone in their right mind really believe this labour propaganda ? Any party selling out the NHS would be committing political suicide and would cease to exist for decades if not for ever.The tories have been running the NHS for more than half its history Corbyn believes if he repeats something enough people will believe him and its sad to say but some do. There is a lot of misinformation on both sides of the argument when it comes to the NHS. There are half truths. But genuinely there are problems in the NHS, and the tories have had their chance, time for labour to take control again and stop the rot from setting in. I was agreeing with everything you said until you got to the bit about labour having their chance, certainly not with Corbyn in charge anyway." How do we know, he’s untested. We already know what Boris is like, tbh he’s not the great saviour he wants us to believe. | |||
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"Does anyone in their right mind really believe this labour propaganda ? Any party selling out the NHS would be committing political suicide and would cease to exist for decades if not for ever.The tories have been running the NHS for more than half its history Corbyn believes if he repeats something enough people will believe him and its sad to say but some do. There is a lot of misinformation on both sides of the argument when it comes to the NHS. There are half truths. But genuinely there are problems in the NHS, and the tories have had their chance, time for labour to take control again and stop the rot from setting in. I was agreeing with everything you said until you got to the bit about labour having their chance, certainly not with Corbyn in charge anyway. How do we know, he’s untested. We already know what Boris is like, tbh he’s not the great saviour he wants us to believe." Lets all pray it stays that way. | |||
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