FabSwingers.com forum: Brexiteers

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Let's say we have a general election that led to another referendum..

Let's say that referendum swung back the opposite way and there was a clear majority to remain.

How would that make you feel?

I'm not trying to provoke, I sat on the fence on the last referendum, undecided, but I'm leaning towards remain now.

I've seen a lot of nasty bickering back and forth over the last year or so..

Just wondering how you'd feel is all.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

A referendum that swung to Remain would resolve nothing (unless it exceeds 65 % ).

A referendum that confirms Leave would kill the issue stone dead.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"A referendum that swung to Remain would resolve nothing (unless it exceeds 65 % ).

A referendum that confirms Leave would kill the issue stone dead.

I don't think it would, the country is divided. Even if it reached a 65%+ majority. The remaining percentage would feel quite angry about it all.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oggoneMan
over a year ago

Derry

"A referendum that swung to Remain would resolve nothing (unless it exceeds 65 % ).

A referendum that confirms Leave would kill the issue stone dead.

I don't think it would, the country is divided. Even if it reached a 65%+ majority. The remaining percentage woul

d feel quite angry about it all. "

Yes, the UK was always divided on EU membership, this ill considered referendum and almighty shitshow has made it worse. But right now its paralysed.

If there was another referendum, people should have a better idea of what they are voting for and what the implications of the vote is. And you're right, people will feel angry whatever the result is but that doesn't mean they shouldn't vote again.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If there was to be another referendum then that needs to be held before a general election. A general election that uses a referendum question as a major campaigning component could give us a terrible 5 years of governance.

A caller on LBC just a little earlier confirmed it when he said "I couldn't care less if Boris said he'd scrap the Police entirely if he gets Brexit done, couldn't care less about ANYTHING about any other policy, just Brexit" .

There could be hundreds of thousands that think like this, possibly millions.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If there was to be another referendum then that needs to be held before a general election. A general election that uses a referendum question as a major campaigning component could give us a terrible 5 years of governance.

There could be hundreds of thousands that think like this, possibly millions. "
.

Do you think the three years of campaigning to overturn the decision by most of parliament and the press has helped or hindered that attitude?.

I'm a remain voter, in another referendum I'd still vote remain but I accepted that vote the next day even with all the shit it's going to bring with it, I've never once told anybody in conversation when it's mentioned that there thick racist xenophobic morons and the quicker they die the better off we'll all be (even if I felt like it), I've happened to mention some facts that they gurned at but I'm a firm believer in leading a horse to water but it's gotta drink by itself.

Every now and then Nations shoot themselves in the foot for various reasons and the important bit is not the act but learning what caused the act and how you stop them from feeling the need to shoot themselves in the other foot.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The biggest problem that I have with the whole idea of a 2nd referendum is the fact that parliament haven't delivered on the first, and as such why should we expect that any further votes will be delivered upon.

A 2nd vote is a real threat to our democracy and our faith and trust in parliament.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The biggest problem that I have with the whole idea of a 2nd referendum is the fact that parliament haven't delivered on the first, and as such why should we expect that any further votes will be delivered upon.

A 2nd vote is a real threat to our democracy and our faith and trust in parliament.

If they implemented the first one then there could not be a second one because we would already be out

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Remain. Mainly because I come from EU country, so some nostalgia goes into making decision process too.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

There could be hundreds of thousands that think like this, possibly millions. .

Do you think the three years of campaigning to overturn the decision by most of parliament and the press has helped or hindered that attitude?.

Helped or hindered? Not the campaigning no.. the politicians being their usual selves and stalling things for personal gain.. Boris and Jeremy being prime examples of that.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *rufinWoman
over a year ago

notts

I'd feel bad for the EU

We need to leave for the sake of the greater EU project now. With a remain vote (and I really don't want to leave) we would end up destroying it from within - Brexiteer MEPs and Brexit agitating governments for decades.

If we leave, obviously it will destroy our economy, and have a major impact on the wider European and global economy, but watching us be asset stripped will focus minds within other EU countries.

Sad for those of us in the UK with lives, families, houses, money tied up here. But better for the many in the EU than the alternative now.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

There could be hundreds of thousands that think like this, possibly millions. "

I think the average voter is sick of hearing the B word.

If the next 6 weeks is nothing but "brexit, brexit, brexit", I suspect it will backfire on the Brexiteers.

People know the issues by now (or at least a lot better than they did in 2016) and there's really nothing new of any substance to be said.

Johnson's team may well be making the same mistake May did in 2017.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

"Let's say we have a general election that led to another referendum..

Let's say that referendum swung back the opposite way and there was a clear majority to remain.

How would that make you feel?

I'm not trying to provoke, I sat on the fence on the last referendum, undecided, but I'm leaning towards remain now.

I've seen a lot of nasty bickering back and forth over the last year or so..

Just wondering how you'd feel is all. "
I’d say that was democracy just like the first vote was

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

There could be hundreds of thousands that think like this, possibly millions.

I think the average voter is sick of hearing the B word.

If the next 6 weeks is nothing but "brexit, brexit, brexit", I suspect it will backfire on the Brexiteers.

People know the issues by now (or at least a lot better than they did in 2016) and there's really nothing new of any substance to be said.

Johnson's team may well be making the same mistake May did in 2017.

"
Well labour wont be talking about it as half the front bench are on a different page to the leader.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

I voted Leave. I also said that Brexit wouldn't happen five minutes after the result was announced, and I've never changed that view.

This is the first national vote thats pitched half the country against the other half in the most disturbing and damaging way.

If a second referendum was held and it went the way of Remain, then I wouldn't moan one iota. All I want is for the next democratic vote result to be respected and to get our Country back and moving forward.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A referendum that swung to Remain would resolve nothing (unless it exceeds 65 % ).

A referendum that confirms Leave would kill the issue stone dead.

I don't think it would, the country is divided. Even if it reached a 65%+ majority. The remaining percentage would feel quite angry about it all. "

They might feel angry. But at least we wouldn't be ruining the country so a few individuals could get rich and avoid paying tax.

Brexit is a much worse problem for the UK than the divided society.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

"A referendum that swung to Remain would resolve nothing (unless it exceeds 65 % ).

A referendum that confirms Leave would kill the issue stone dead.

I don't think it would, the country is divided. Even if it reached a 65%+ majority. The remaining percentage would feel quite angry about it all.

They might feel angry. But at least we wouldn't be ruining the country so a few individuals could get rich and avoid paying tax.

Brexit is a much worse problem for the UK than the divided society."
nothing is worse than a divided society

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A referendum that swung to Remain would resolve nothing (unless it exceeds 65 % ).

A referendum that confirms Leave would kill the issue stone dead.

I don't think it would, the country is divided. Even if it reached a 65%+ majority. The remaining percentage would feel quite angry about it all.

They might feel angry. But at least we wouldn't be ruining the country so a few individuals could get rich and avoid paying tax.

Brexit is a much worse problem for the UK than the divided society. nothing is worse than a divided society "

I would disagree.

What problems does a divided society create?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A referendum that swung to Remain would resolve nothing (unless it exceeds 65 % ).

A referendum that confirms Leave would kill the issue stone dead.

A 2nd preference one should do the trick but I know it will never happen. Another Binary one will just be a sick joke.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A referendum that swung to Remain would resolve nothing (unless it exceeds 65 % ).

A referendum that confirms Leave would kill the issue stone dead.

I don't think it would, the country is divided. Even if it reached a 65%+ majority. The remaining percentage would feel quite angry about it all.

They might feel angry. But at least we wouldn't be ruining the country so a few individuals could get rich and avoid paying tax.

Brexit is a much worse problem for the UK than the divided society. nothing is worse than a divided society "

We have been a divided society for 100s of years

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

A 2nd preference one should do the trick but I know it will never happen. Another Binary one will just be a sick joke."

It is feasible to have two questions.

The first - Leave or Remain

The Second - Leave with an agreement or without

The second question matters only if the first affirms the intention to Leave.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *risky_MareWoman
over a year ago

...Up on the Downs

A 2nd preference one should do the trick but I know it will never happen. Another Binary one will just be a sick joke.

It is feasible to have two questions.

The first - Leave or Remain

The Second - Leave with an agreement or without

The second question matters only if the first affirms the intention to Leave.

And of course we've done the first, so that only leaves the second to resolve!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Yes, I felt for a while the only question to address was the 2nd.

We got ourselves into a right mess asking the first.

Might as well get hung for a sheep as a lamb, eh?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A referendum that swung to Remain would resolve nothing (unless it exceeds 65 % ).

A referendum that confirms Leave would kill the issue stone dead.

I don't think it would, the country is divided. Even if it reached a 65%+ majority. The remaining percentage would feel quite angry about it all.

They might feel angry. But at least we wouldn't be ruining the country so a few individuals could get rich and avoid paying tax.

Brexit is a much worse problem for the UK than the divided society. nothing is worse than a divided society

I would disagree.

What problems does a divided society create?

"
.

Inequity, crime, social behaviour problems, illegal drug use, mass emigration and therefore immigration, mental health issues, alcohol abuse, the list is endless, what proof do I have, look at the least divided countries, Korea, Japan, China, Scandinavia, Germany, I would have included France and the USA but they've already tipped over, and in the USAs position there moving inter state instead of emigrating.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Countries with high emigration are failed States and we've been running it high for decades, the underlying trend of those with resources is get out while the goings good and it's got very little to do with the weather

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *risky_MareWoman
over a year ago

...Up on the Downs

"Yes, I felt for a while the only question to address was the 2nd.

We got ourselves into a right mess asking the first.

Might as well get hung for a sheep as a lamb, eh?

Absofrigginglutely!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A referendum that swung to Remain would resolve nothing (unless it exceeds 65 % ).

A referendum that confirms Leave would kill the issue stone dead.

I don't think it would, the country is divided. Even if it reached a 65%+ majority. The remaining percentage would feel quite angry about it all.

They might feel angry. But at least we wouldn't be ruining the country so a few individuals could get rich and avoid paying tax.

Brexit is a much worse problem for the UK than the divided society. nothing is worse than a divided society

I would disagree.

What problems does a divided society create?

All of these problems are fueled by the divide between rich and poor. Which is set to widen with Brexit making most of us poorer and the richest top 0.1% even more stinking rich.

I was understanding we were talking about society divided over Brexit. The divided between leavers and remainers.

I assumed that because that seemed to be the overall theme.

But assuming I am wrong. I agree that the divide between the population and those with all the money and power does cause and does exasperate these issues. And widening that gap is one of the core purposes of brexit.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"A referendum that swung to Remain would resolve nothing (unless it exceeds 65 % ).

A referendum that confirms Leave would kill the issue stone dead.

I don't think it would, the country is divided. Even if it reached a 65%+ majority. The remaining percentage would feel quite angry about it all.

They might feel angry. But at least we wouldn't be ruining the country so a few individuals could get rich and avoid paying tax.

Brexit is a much worse problem for the UK than the divided society."

I disagree, Brexit or Bremain.. if it were united, wouldn't be half as destructive as a completely divided society. Divided societies can fuel civil wars, the worst kind of war.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A referendum that swung to Remain would resolve nothing (unless it exceeds 65 % ).

A referendum that confirms Leave would kill the issue stone dead.

I don't think it would, the country is divided. Even if it reached a 65%+ majority. The remaining percentage would feel quite angry about it all.

They might feel angry. But at least we wouldn't be ruining the country so a few individuals could get rich and avoid paying tax.

Brexit is a much worse problem for the UK than the divided society. nothing is worse than a divided society

I would disagree.

What problems does a divided society create?

All of these problems are fueled by the divide between rich and poor. Which is set to widen with Brexit making most of us poorer and the richest top 0.1% even more stinking rich.

I was understanding we were talking about society divided over Brexit. The divided between leavers and remainers.

I assumed that because that seemed to be the overall theme.

Not so, the Japanese have loads of billionaires along with a decent middle class and some poor, everybody works, it's shameful not to.

They are united in being Japanese living with Japanese culture, billionaires in general pay there taxes, the middle class pay there taxes, the poor don't pay tax but work dammed hard hoping to make middle class someday, education is excellent and parents discipline children.

But more importantly when there's a problem they look for solutions not blame.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A referendum that swung to Remain would resolve nothing (unless it exceeds 65 % ).

A referendum that confirms Leave would kill the issue stone dead.

I don't think it would, the country is divided. Even if it reached a 65%+ majority. The remaining percentage would feel quite angry about it all.

They might feel angry. But at least we wouldn't be ruining the country so a few individuals could get rich and avoid paying tax.

Brexit is a much worse problem for the UK than the divided society. nothing is worse than a divided society

I would disagree.

What problems does a divided society create?

All of these problems are fueled by the divide between rich and poor. Which is set to widen with Brexit making most of us poorer and the richest top 0.1% even more stinking rich.

I was understanding we were talking about society divided over Brexit. The divided between leavers and remainers.

I assumed that because that seemed to be the overall theme.

Not so, the Japanese have loads of billionaires along with a decent middle class and some poor, everybody works, it's shameful not to.

But more importantly when there's a problem they look for solutions not blame."

One word. Karoshi.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A referendum that swung to Remain would resolve nothing (unless it exceeds 65 % ).

A referendum that confirms Leave would kill the issue stone dead.

I don't think it would, the country is divided. Even if it reached a 65%+ majority. The remaining percentage would feel quite angry about it all.

They might feel angry. But at least we wouldn't be ruining the country so a few individuals could get rich and avoid paying tax.

Brexit is a much worse problem for the UK than the divided society.

I disagree, Brexit or Bremain.. if it were united, wouldn't be half as destructive as a completely divided society. Divided societies can fuel civil wars, the worst kind of war. "

I don't think we are headed towards civil war though. Realistically.

We're just heading down the brexit toilet. We're fucked, the divide between people who are cheering on the race to the bottom and those speaking out against it isn't all that harmful.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"A referendum that swung to Remain would resolve nothing (unless it exceeds 65 % ).

A referendum that confirms Leave would kill the issue stone dead.

I don't think it would, the country is divided. Even if it reached a 65%+ majority. The remaining percentage would feel quite angry about it all.

They might feel angry. But at least we wouldn't be ruining the country so a few individuals could get rich and avoid paying tax.

Brexit is a much worse problem for the UK than the divided society.

I disagree, Brexit or Bremain.. if it were united, wouldn't be half as destructive as a completely divided society. Divided societies can fuel civil wars, the worst kind of war.

I don't think we are headed towards civil war though. Realistically.

We're just heading down the brexit toilet. We're fucked, the divide between people who are cheering on the race to the bottom and those speaking out against it isn't all that harmful. "

It doesnt take as much as you might think to spark things off. Especially if it goes badly either way and tensions start to run high.

I hope you're right though.