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Transgendered and sports

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Should trans people male to female be able to compete within female sports where speed and strength are an advantage. What are your thought's really interesting subject.

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By *lik and PaulCouple
over a year ago

cahoots

Simple answer is no....more long winded is that women have fought for equality for a long time, and are probably still having to fight in some cases so when a trans athlete basically gains an unfair advantage it strips away that equality all over again. No issue with people would feel they were born into the wrong bodies but then taking advantage of people who are now to all intents and purposes the same sex is wrong in my opinion.

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By *estivalMan
over a year ago

borehamwood

nope no matter how someones mind may feel as far as sport in concerned they would phycaly have and advantage over a female

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By *evil_u_knowMan
over a year ago

city

Sure, if women have to be paid the same as me, then they can compete against trans.

It's proven trans don't compete as well as men, so what's their problem.

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By *anejohnkent6263Couple
over a year ago

canterbury

Born with a cock ya male

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Born with a cock ya male"

Was the question to difficult for you

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By *anejohnkent6263Couple
over a year ago

canterbury

Not at all is it difficult for you to understand...cock male ...pussy female

..if that is what you are born with ...or oh I feel trapped...u can change but does never disguised...fact

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

Like many issues relating to trans people, this is not a clear cut matter.

1. "Born with penis" does not automatically mean stronger/faster than all women. Very likely stronger/faster than some women. But also quite possibly weaker/slower than some women.

2. Any male to female trans person who is on hormone therapy will lose muscle mass. However the exact level of strength loss may vary.

3. Post-puberty hormone therapy will not affect height, so any advantage given by leg length will remain. However not every male is taller than every female.

4. Some women have natural testosterone levels higher than some men. An MTF trans person on hormone therapy will generally in fact have lower testosterone levels than the majority of women.

5. The above all refer to MTF transition, but there are equivalent points relating to FTM transition.

The above are not an exhaustive list. Does this mean that trans people in sport should be treated exactly as cis people? Probably not. Should they be blanket excluded? Certainly not. But a much more nuanced view is required than the majority of postings in this thread.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Not at all is it difficult for you to understand...cock male ...pussy female

..if that is what you are born with ...or oh I feel trapped...u can change but does never disguised...fact"

But that wasn’t the question was it.

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By *tace 309TV/TS
over a year ago

durham


"Not at all is it difficult for you to understand...cock male ...pussy female

..if that is what you are born with ...or oh I feel trapped...u can change but does never disguised...fact"
what you don't realise is in this day and age of gender neutral you can basically call yourself whatever you wish to... And that is, a, fact. Your comment only suggests, to me you in fact know nothing at, all about the likes of us.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

Hopefully women's football will become full off trans women in the not too distant future, then it might at least become watchable..

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

The policy is yes, unless bigotry or other similar factors are included. Many sports have been inclusive.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't know much about this, so this is a perfectly innocent question to transgendered people. Would you object to sports events having 3 categories of competition - male, female and transgendered?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Hopefully women's football will become full off trans women in the not too distant future, then it might at least become watchable.."

Okay going from a different angle we have the Olympics and the amazing paras and the invictus games why not trans games x

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury


"I don't know much about this, so this is a perfectly innocent question to transgendered people. Would you object to sports events having 3 categories of competition - male, female and transgendered?"

Because they're actual real women. Deffo .

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

Essentially they're disabled women. Women born with the wrong body.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Or team sports mixed so working together x

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I love the ladies playing with the men in soccer aid x

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By *rotic-TouchTV/TS
over a year ago

doncaster


"Not at all is it difficult for you to understand...cock male ...pussy female

..if that is what you are born with ...or oh I feel trapped...u can change but does never disguised...fact"
what if you're born with male and female genitals ??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Not at all is it difficult for you to understand...cock male ...pussy female

..if that is what you are born with ...or oh I feel trapped...u can change but does never disguised...fact what if you're born with male and female genitals ?? "

Sweet baby Jesus. The first question was too difficult for him, don’t blow his mind with that one.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

Trans games just marginalises us into a freak show. A much fairer system would be to lose gender segregation altogether, and have a league or capability banded system. Like how boxing is divided into heavyweight, flyweight etc. Or football is divided into leagues.

So everybody can compete against others of comparable athletic level. No one is excluded.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Should trans people male to female be able to compete within female sports where speed and strength are an advantage. What are your thought's really interesting subject. "

Are you confusing transgender

With xy46 ( DSD) ?

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

Forgetting our sexual preferences,even trans the physical body is that of a male so no they cannot compete equally with women.

We are born male or female and dispite our desires and feelings we cannot change that.

A woman in a mans body maybe but that's the rub in a mans body as I see it

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By *ittleAcornMan
over a year ago

visiting the beach


"Like many issues relating to trans people, this is not a clear cut matter.

1. "Born with penis" does not automatically mean stronger/faster than all women. Very likely stronger/faster than some women. But also quite possibly weaker/slower than some women.

2. Any male to female trans person who is on hormone therapy will lose muscle mass. However the exact level of strength loss may vary.

3. Post-puberty hormone therapy will not affect height, so any advantage given by leg length will remain. However not every male is taller than every female.

4. Some women have natural testosterone levels higher than some men. An MTF trans person on hormone therapy will generally in fact have lower testosterone levels than the majority of women.

5. The above all refer to MTF transition, but there are equivalent points relating to FTM transition.

The above are not an exhaustive list. Does this mean that trans people in sport should be treated exactly as cis people? Probably not. Should they be blanket excluded? Certainly not. But a much more nuanced view is required than the majority of postings in this thread.

"

About the only way to address so much variation and fluidity, is to treat all sport like the Paralympics.

Where effectively your performance is not just measured against the competition, but adjusted for severity of your disability.

But then again, sport has always been about "unfair" advantage. Just look at the rugby, it's not about being good at ball handling and running, but you also need to (naturally) be a big bugger.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No

Men are not women physically

The only way is to adjust hormones with drugs which is banned in sports

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Xy 46

Like Caster Semenya are not trans people .

I ask again is this what you are reffering to ?

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By *anejohnkent6263Couple
over a year ago

canterbury

Boy some are easily rattled...calm down take another hormone pill ...chill out ...it's fun on here ...so many experts at everything...love it

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By *ane DTV/TS
over a year ago

London

Another side to this argument is the ability of athletes who have been caught using PEDs being able to serve a ban and return to sport.

If you're going to ban people from sport for changing sex and the body mass/hormonal changes that go with it.

Then surely the same must be applied to those who use and abuse PEDs.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

This thread reminds me of two women.

One in india, one in south africa.

The whole transgender issue had resulted in an edict that eligibility would be determined by testosterone levels.

The two women failed.

For me, that said this is about more than genitalia.

I do not have the answer to it.

Ethics and biology together.

Experts.

I'll leave it to the experts.

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By *anejohnkent6263Couple
over a year ago

canterbury

Experts bloody hell they are all on here ....know everything

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Caster Semenya is the lady from South Africa.

She won, then lost, then re-won titles.

Because her testosterone was too high.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

How humiliating was that?

Born a woman and her competitors complained she was too manly.

She had to prove she was a woman.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

East German shot putters.

1970s.

Say no more.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Caster Semenya is the lady from South Africa.

She won, then lost, then re-won titles.

Because her testosterone was too high.

"

Semenya is xy 46 ( DSD)

A condition which means she has female & male genitalia.

But where 1 is suppressed by doctors & prescribed treatments.

As the silver & bronze medal winners were also xy 46 , there is a huge debate on muscle memory.

Xy 46 will develop bigger hearts bigger muscle capacity etc while still being women with massively underdeveloped gonads & male genitalia

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I love how transphobes struggle with both basic logic and basic grammar at the same time

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

Ban competitive sport

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"Caster Semenya is the lady from South Africa.

She won, then lost, then re-won titles.

Because her testosterone was too high.

Semenya is xy 46 ( DSD)

A condition which means she has female & male genitalia.

But where 1 is suppressed by doctors & prescribed treatments.

As the silver & bronze medal winners were also xy 46 , there is a huge debate on muscle memory.

Xy 46 will develop bigger hearts bigger muscle capacity etc while still being women with massively underdeveloped gonads & male genitalia"

Yes, nothing in life is ever black and white.

It upsets those unable to think in more than a binary way.

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By *isaAndNicoleTransTV/TS
over a year ago

Southport / Ellesmere Port


"Hopefully women's football will become full off trans women in the not too distant future, then it might at least become watchable.."

It's not easy playing football in 5 inch stilleto heels

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By *r_Jake70Man
over a year ago

London

I may be wrong, but I believe that no transgender person has ever medaled in an major national or international event. In order to compete at the highest of levels one has to dedicate one’s life to training, and no ‘natural’ physical advantage is going to override that.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

I severely doubt that any transgender person has even been allowed to compete in higher level sports. However the exclusion goes further than that, i know of transwomen that have been denied from taking part in even local amateur knockabout teams. Someone who was even excluded from a lesbian and gay team!

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

It won't be long until people born Male will be world leaders in all sports in all genders, amazing times.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"It won't be long until people born Male will be world leaders in all sports in all genders, amazing times. "

Who asked you what sex you wanted to be when you were born?

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby


"I don't know much about this, so this is a perfectly innocent question to transgendered people. Would you object to sports events having 3 categories of competition - male, female and transgendered?"

Wouldn't it be 4 categories?

Male

Female

Transgendered Male to Female

Tranagendered Female to Male.

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By *rimtonMan
over a year ago

Bromley

Must admit, I don’t blame the IAF, or whatever they’re called , from taking a long time to deal with this.

Really , how difficult to find a solution that is equitable and also keeps a competitions integrity. Where’s Solomon when needed.

So, dealing details here - do we think the iaf have the right answer in saying - if your testosterone level is above a certain level you have to take drugs to reduce, then you can compete as a fem? That’s athletics anyway

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury


"It won't be long until people born Male will be world leaders in all sports in all genders, amazing times.

Who asked you what sex you wanted to be when you were born?

"

Same person who asked me what race i wanted to be.

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By *TJxComboMan
over a year ago

birmingham


"It won't be long until people born Male will be world leaders in all sports in all genders, amazing times.

Who asked you what sex you wanted to be when you were born?

"

God flipped a coin and bomb you were either male or female.

There's a reason why men don't compete against women in sports it's because we're better and it wouldn't be a fair competition, they should at least make trans women compete with men because clearly they have an advantage other biological women

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"

God flipped a coin and bomb you were either male or female.

"

And what do you say to Caster Semenya?

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"

Same person who asked me what race i wanted to be. "

Is there such a thing?

One species, one skin.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury


"

Same person who asked me what race i wanted to be.

Is there such a thing?

One species, one skin.

"

Bless x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It won't be long until people born Male will be world leaders in all sports in all genders, amazing times.

Who asked you what sex you wanted to be when you were born?

God flipped a coin and bomb you were either male or female.

There's a reason why men don't compete against women in sports it's because we're better and it wouldn't be a fair competition, they should at least make trans women compete with men because clearly they have an advantage other biological women "

I totally agree with this especially because there's men purposely identifying and trans women to win competition and even breaking records this madness needs to stop. Imagine you have a daughter that's trained hard all her life to get beaten by a man in a skirt come on has some sense people

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By *TJxComboMan
over a year ago

birmingham


"

God flipped a coin and bomb you were either male or female.

And what do you say to Caster Semenya?"

Thank for ignoring the 2nd paragraph I wrote, just proves you don't have an answer because you know it's the truth

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Bringing your imaginary friend into this debate was enough for me.

I stopped at the first sentence.

Let me go read what else you wrote then.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

What do you say to Caster Semenya, btw?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

God flipped a coin and bomb you were either male or female.

And what do you say to Caster Semenya?

Thank for ignoring the 2nd paragraph I wrote, just proves you don't have an answer because you know it's the truth "

My money’s on Serena Williams beating you at tennis.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury


"What do you say to Caster Semenya, btw?"

Surely she should be a para athlete? She's essentialy born disabled, too high testosterone. If someone was born with 3 legs and could run at 30mph would they be allowed to compete with "standard" humans?

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport


"What do you say to Caster Semenya, btw?

Surely she should be a para athlete? She's essentialy born disabled, too high testosterone. If someone was born with 3 legs and could run at 30mph would they be allowed to compete with "standard" humans?"

According to this argument, any man who is an extra inch taller or has a genetic condition giving them increased strength, speed, endurance, whatever, is no longer a "standard human" and must not be allowed to compete with "standard humans". Hey, we'd better not allow any competition between those Caucasian types and those non-Caucasian types, because of the unfair genetic advantage. Better make sure that no basketball player is taller than 5' 10". Sumo wrestlers mustn't weight more than 12 stone. Chess players must be certified to have an IQ of exactly 100...

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London


"What do you say to Caster Semenya, btw?

Surely she should be a para athlete? She's essentialy born disabled, too high testosterone. If someone was born with 3 legs and could run at 30mph would they be allowed to compete with "standard" humans?

According to this argument, any man who is an extra inch taller or has a genetic condition giving them increased strength, speed, endurance, whatever, is no longer a "standard human" and must not be allowed to compete with "standard humans". Hey, we'd better not allow any competition between those Caucasian types and those non-Caucasian types, because of the unfair genetic advantage. Better make sure that no basketball player is taller than 5' 10". Sumo wrestlers mustn't weight more than 12 stone. Chess players must be certified to have an IQ of exactly 100..."

Indeed. Michael Phelps is the classic example here. He apparently produces half the amount of lactic acid as other swimmers, so he gets tired less easily.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury


"What do you say to Caster Semenya, btw?

Surely she should be a para athlete? She's essentialy born disabled, too high testosterone. If someone was born with 3 legs and could run at 30mph would they be allowed to compete with "standard" humans?

According to this argument, any man who is an extra inch taller or has a genetic condition giving them increased strength, speed, endurance, whatever, is no longer a "standard human" and must not be allowed to compete with "standard humans". Hey, we'd better not allow any competition between those Caucasian types and those non-Caucasian types, because of the unfair genetic advantage. Better make sure that no basketball player is taller than 5' 10". Sumo wrestlers mustn't weight more than 12 stone. Chess players must be certified to have an IQ of exactly 100..."

Yeah that's a good point! Survival of the fittest should be the rule. So if things continue the way they are, sports will be won by men and trans women. Women need to realise that men are just better at being women than women are.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport


"What do you say to Caster Semenya, btw?

Surely she should be a para athlete? She's essentialy born disabled, too high testosterone. If someone was born with 3 legs and could run at 30mph would they be allowed to compete with "standard" humans?

According to this argument, any man who is an extra inch taller or has a genetic condition giving them increased strength, speed, endurance, whatever, is no longer a "standard human" and must not be allowed to compete with "standard humans". Hey, we'd better not allow any competition between those Caucasian types and those non-Caucasian types, because of the unfair genetic advantage. Better make sure that no basketball player is taller than 5' 10". Sumo wrestlers mustn't weight more than 12 stone. Chess players must be certified to have an IQ of exactly 100...

Yeah that's a good point! Survival of the fittest should be the rule. So if things continue the way they are, sports will be won by men and trans women. Women need to realise that men are just better at being women than women are. "

Which is why the existing system of dividing humans into just two categories, male and female, is no longer fit for purpose in not just sport but in many areas of life. Modern society is just more complex. I have no simple answers for these problems, but the assertion that "dick = forever male" and "vag = forever female" and "anything else = freak that shouldn't be allowed to exist" is ignorant and vile.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"What do you say to Caster Semenya, btw?

Surely she should be a para athlete? She's essentialy born disabled, too high testosterone. If someone was born with 3 legs and could run at 30mph would they be allowed to compete with "standard" humans?"

A champion athlete and you say she is disabled?

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport


"What do you say to Caster Semenya, btw?

Surely she should be a para athlete? She's essentialy born disabled, too high testosterone. If someone was born with 3 legs and could run at 30mph would they be allowed to compete with "standard" humans?

A champion athlete and you say she is disabled?

"

Yup. Too good. It's a disgrace that mere humans have to compete against someone with a natural ability. Clearly we should burn the aliens.

(Nb. Sarcasm, for those who are unable to recognise such. No aliens were harmed in bringing you this broadcast, and the Polly Chromatic Network (tm) does not in any way endorse the harming of aliens. Those nasty trans people though, that's another matter...)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What age does an adult professional sportsperson have to be? If, for example a male or female sportsperson has to be 16 before they turn professional, should a transgender person have to be fully transitioned into their new gender for 16 years before they're allowed to compete?

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury


"What age does an adult professional sportsperson have to be? If, for example a male or female sportsperson has to be 16 before they turn professional, should a transgender person have to be fully transitioned into their new gender for 16 years before they're allowed to compete?"

I assume it's from when they self identify is it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What age does an adult professional sportsperson have to be? If, for example a male or female sportsperson has to be 16 before they turn professional, should a transgender person have to be fully transitioned into their new gender for 16 years before they're allowed to compete?

I assume it's from when they self identify is it?"

Is there a legal minimum age for them to be able to self identify?

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By *TJxComboMan
over a year ago

birmingham


"

God flipped a coin and bomb you were either male or female.

And what do you say to Caster Semenya?

Thank for ignoring the 2nd paragraph I wrote, just proves you don't have an answer because you know it's the truth

My money’s on Serena Williams beating you at tennis."

You do know that both the Williams sisters once thought they could compete and beat professional men in tennis, they played the 200th seed both of them lost back to back and didn't even get a point.

I've never played tennis but I would beat them at football, basketball, rugby even table tennis.

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By *r_Jake70Man
over a year ago

London


"they played the 200th seed both of them lost back to back and didn't even get a point"

Not true. They both won games but lost the match.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What do you say to Caster Semenya, btw?

Surely she should be a para athlete? She's essentialy born disabled, too high testosterone. If someone was born with 3 legs and could run at 30mph would they be allowed to compete with "standard" humans?"

Disabled means not being able to do normal life

Not run faster than women in normal life.

Havent thought that through thoroughly have you.

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By *anejohnkent6263Couple
over a year ago

canterbury

I never made it as a footballer ...but hey ...if I go and have my cock cut off And call myself a lady or it ...I can make a comeback in the woman's game ...where let's face it I will be great....is that ok and correct

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By *isaAndNicoleTransTV/TS
over a year ago

Southport / Ellesmere Port


"I never made it as a footballer ...but hey ...if I go and have my cock cut off And call myself a lady or it ...I can make a comeback in the woman's game ...where let's face it I will be great....is that ok and correct"

Childish

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By *anejohnkent6263Couple
over a year ago

canterbury

Thankyou x

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By *anejohnkent6263Couple
over a year ago

canterbury

Can't see what is childish ...if it happened in your eyes is that ok ....yes or no ...it's as simple as that

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By *oney to the beeWoman
over a year ago

Manchester


"I never made it as a footballer ...but hey ...if I go and have my cock cut off And call myself a lady or it ...I can make a comeback in the woman's game ...where let's face it I will be great....is that ok and correct"

You could but that wouldn't make it right morally.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

Hmm maybe Tim Henman could make a come back after all...

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"Should trans people male to female be able to compete within female sports where speed and strength are an advantage. What are your thought's really interesting subject. "

I would say no.

I would say that anyone who takes drugs or hormones of any type to maintain their body should be barred from competing with others who do not do the same.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

Congratulations Rachel Mckinnon!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If not being biologically female then I'm afraid your not female and should not be considered as a female athlete.

Personally I'm absolutely fine with people defining themselves however they wish, monkey, tree, broccoli, man, woman couldn't care less but that doesn't mean you get to dictate how everybody else chooses to define you and alas we use a tried and tested method of biology.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

Are you saying sport is about physicality, not gender?

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By *ykmwyldTV/TS
over a year ago

Belpre

Heck, if transgender women, or transgender men, want to compete in sports, then let them, at least it would make sports more interesting, and it would also give stupid and ignorant people something else to bitch and complain about, because isn't that what makes them happy anyway lol. They sure make it so easy for the rest of us to recognize them lol. Well, at least their good for a laugh or two !!

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By *ittleAcornMan
over a year ago

visiting the beach


"I never made it as a footballer ...but hey ...if I go and have my cock cut off And call myself a lady or it ...I can make a comeback in the woman's game ...where let's face it I will be great....is that ok and correct

You could but that wouldn't make it right morally.

"

One of the problems with professional sport, morality has been driven out by profit.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"Heck, if transgender women, or transgender men, want to compete in sports, then let them, at least it would make sports more interesting, and it would also give stupid and ignorant people something else to bitch and complain about, because isn't that what makes them happy anyway lol. They sure make it so easy for the rest of us to recognize them lol. Well, at least their good for a laugh or two !!"

I for one have no issue with anyone competing or using anything to enhance performance. Just let those using drugs and hormones for whatever reason compete with others using drugs and hormones.

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks


"Should trans people male to female be able to compete within female sports where speed and strength are an advantage. What are your thought's really interesting subject.

I would say no.

I would say that anyone who takes drugs or hormones of any type to maintain their body should be barred from competing with others who do not do the same."

I agree

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Are you saying sport is about physicality, not gender?"
.

Not always but it's a massive part of some shorts.

You wouldn't expect a bantam weight to get in and mix it around with say Joshua as it would be plain to see very unfair, so it divided into sex and size differences.

Ethiopian runners despite being technically brilliant and training just as hard smash world records because they have a distinct natural advantage to marathon running.

Lance Armstrong had natural advantages over the field, Serena Williams has natural advantages over the rest of the field, it's all slightly unfair but you have to divide it somehow.

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By *sianMancMan
over a year ago

Manchester


"Should trans people male to female be able to compete within female sports where speed and strength are an advantage. What are your thought's really interesting subject. "

Trans or not if you believe yoire a female you should be able to compete with fellow females.

Don't let society stop you from getting equality just cos you happen to be faster stronger etc you're a women go compete with other women.

Same if you think you're a man. You don't have to look like a gender to feel like a gender so as long as u feel it you should be able to say I'm a male or a female.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The guide lines are that, yes they are free to compete as long as they take medication that controls their hormones to acceptable levels.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury


"Should trans people male to female be able to compete within female sports where speed and strength are an advantage. What are your thought's really interesting subject.

Trans or not if you believe yoire a female you should be able to compete with fellow females.

Don't let society stop you from getting equality just cos you happen to be faster stronger etc you're a women go compete with other women.

Same if you think you're a man. You don't have to look like a gender to feel like a gender so as long as u feel it you should be able to say I'm a male or a female.

"

This is the trouble. Confusion between gender, and physical sex. Sport is about physical performance, not how you "feel inside".

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury


"The guide lines are that, yes they are free to compete as long as they take medication that controls their hormones to acceptable levels.

"

If you've spent 25 years developing a Male body, just because you start inhibiting testosterone when you compete as the opposite sex, it's too late. The physical body has developed as male.

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By *sianMancMan
over a year ago

Manchester


"Should trans people male to female be able to compete within female sports where speed and strength are an advantage. What are your thought's really interesting subject.

Trans or not if you believe yoire a female you should be able to compete with fellow females.

Don't let society stop you from getting equality just cos you happen to be faster stronger etc you're a women go compete with other women.

Same if you think you're a man. You don't have to look like a gender to feel like a gender so as long as u feel it you should be able to say I'm a male or a female.

This is the trouble. Confusion between gender, and physical sex. Sport is about physical performance, not how you "feel inside". "

Too late for that the world has evolved to now allow gender surgery in which 1 gender person can become another with hormones and surgery etc.

So as far as I'm concerned if there's an all female sport and a person who feels female wants to do it why not. Same the other way too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Should trans people male to female be able to compete within female sports where speed and strength are an advantage. What are your thought's really interesting subject.

Trans or not if you believe yoire a female you should be able to compete with fellow females.

Don't let society stop you from getting equality just cos you happen to be faster stronger etc you're a women go compete with other women.

Same if you think you're a man. You don't have to look like a gender to feel like a gender so as long as u feel it you should be able to say I'm a male or a female.

"
.

If being female is just a feeling then how do you define female?.

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By *rotic-TouchTV/TS
over a year ago

doncaster


"Should trans people male to female be able to compete within female sports where speed and strength are an advantage. What are your thought's really interesting subject.

Trans or not if you believe yoire a female you should be able to compete with fellow females.

Don't let society stop you from getting equality just cos you happen to be faster stronger etc you're a women go compete with other women.

Same if you think you're a man. You don't have to look like a gender to feel like a gender so as long as u feel it you should be able to say I'm a male or a female.

.

If being female is just a feeling then how do you define female?."
I'd guess a female will have been born with a vagina and ovaries ? A trans women would have been born with a penis and testes ? ?

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By *sianMancMan
over a year ago

Manchester


"Should trans people male to female be able to compete within female sports where speed and strength are an advantage. What are your thought's really interesting subject.

Trans or not if you believe yoire a female you should be able to compete with fellow females.

Don't let society stop you from getting equality just cos you happen to be faster stronger etc you're a women go compete with other women.

Same if you think you're a man. You don't have to look like a gender to feel like a gender so as long as u feel it you should be able to say I'm a male or a female.

.

If being female is just a feeling then how do you define female?.I'd guess a female will have been born with a vagina and ovaries ? A trans women would have been born with a penis and testes ? ? "

Sounds about right to me.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury


"Should trans people male to female be able to compete within female sports where speed and strength are an advantage. What are your thought's really interesting subject.

Trans or not if you believe yoire a female you should be able to compete with fellow females.

Don't let society stop you from getting equality just cos you happen to be faster stronger etc you're a women go compete with other women.

Same if you think you're a man. You don't have to look like a gender to feel like a gender so as long as u feel it you should be able to say I'm a male or a female.

This is the trouble. Confusion between gender, and physical sex. Sport is about physical performance, not how you "feel inside".

Too late for that the world has evolved to now allow gender surgery in which 1 gender person can become another with hormones and surgery etc.

So as far as I'm concerned if there's an all female sport and a person who feels female wants to do it why not. Same the other way too.

"

Has "the world" evolved? Do you know the number of countries who recognise a male who feels female as female?

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By *rotic-TouchTV/TS
over a year ago

doncaster


"Should trans people male to female be able to compete within female sports where speed and strength are an advantage. What are your thought's really interesting subject.

Trans or not if you believe yoire a female you should be able to compete with fellow females.

Don't let society stop you from getting equality just cos you happen to be faster stronger etc you're a women go compete with other women.

Same if you think you're a man. You don't have to look like a gender to feel like a gender so as long as u feel it you should be able to say I'm a male or a female.

This is the trouble. Confusion between gender, and physical sex. Sport is about physical performance, not how you "feel inside".

Too late for that the world has evolved to now allow gender surgery in which 1 gender person can become another with hormones and surgery etc.

So as far as I'm concerned if there's an all female sport and a person who feels female wants to do it why not. Same the other way too.

Has "the world" evolved? Do you know the number of countries who recognise a male who feels female as female?"
I read the world as a figure of speech and not literally , I don't think any trans person believes it's a whole world acceptance , just like in this country and many others are free to have as many offspring as they choose or able , I can think of one country that only allow one child per couple , you may think I digress but in context the world has developed at different levels and belief systems , I try to live and let live

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 23/10/19 20:35:50]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No they shouldn't.

One of the powerlifting feds allows trans athletes.

A recent example:-

Male lifter competes at given weight category and is one of the top lifters in the country.

Transitions to female and now competes in the equivalent female class.

Just won a comp last week by over 200kg to second place. 2nd place was formerly the best in UK for that class.

Wrong on every level, 2nd place no matter how hard she trained would get anywhere near those numbers.

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By *r_Jake70Man
over a year ago

London


"No they shouldn't.

One of the powerlifting feds allows trans athletes.

A recent example:-

Male lifter competes at given weight category and is one of the top lifters in the country.

Transitions to female and now competes in the equivalent female class.

Just won a comp last week by over 200kg to second place. 2nd place was formerly the best in UK for that class.

Wrong on every level, 2nd place no matter how hard she trained would get anywhere near those numbers.

"

Proof of this please.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Should trans people male to female be able to compete within female sports where speed and strength are an advantage. What are your thought's really interesting subject. "

Not really no.

Biology dictates if you are male or female so if sports are separated by biological sex then it's simply allowing a male to compete against females.

If all sports were mixed sex then obviously its irrelevant but they are not, and are not for a reason.

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By *isaAndNicoleTransTV/TS
over a year ago

Southport / Ellesmere Port


"Should trans people male to female be able to compete within female sports where speed and strength are an advantage. What are your thought's really interesting subject.

Not really no.

Biology dictates if you are male or female so if sports are separated by biological sex then it's simply allowing a male to compete against females.

If all sports were mixed sex then obviously its irrelevant but they are not, and are not for a reason. "

Biology also dictates if you are born transgender or intersex too

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Should trans people male to female be able to compete within female sports where speed and strength are an advantage. What are your thought's really interesting subject.

Not really no.

Biology dictates if you are male or female so if sports are separated by biological sex then it's simply allowing a male to compete against females.

If all sports were mixed sex then obviously its irrelevant but they are not, and are not for a reason.

Biology also dictates if you are born transgender or intersex too "

Hmm, intersex yes if you are born with a mixture of male and female characteristics but babies are normally assigned a sex at birth

Transgender is how the individual identifies themselves even if their biological sex is obviously different, so that in my view is psychological and not biological and a psychological mindset that you are the opposite to what you actually are shouldn't come into account in the topic of sports participation like this.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"Biology also dictates if you are born transgender or intersex too "

Simple (hypothetical) question:

Does it take daily hormone treatment to maintain your body as it is?

If the answer to that is yes then please tell me what the difference is between between you and any other sports cheat using hormones to enhance their body?

Please do not take the above as an attack on the transgender or the gender fluid, it is not. My observation is purely limited to participation in competitive sport, nothing more.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I severely doubt that any transgender person has even been allowed to compete in higher level sports. However the exclusion goes further than that, i know of transwomen that have been denied from taking part in even local amateur knockabout teams. Someone who was even excluded from a lesbian and gay team!"

Have you been living under a rock?

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

I have a friend, who went fully from male to female.

She takes part in competitions at her gym, and always wins the women's classifications. So much so, few of the women there now enter, as they regard it as unfair competition.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you read the psychological data on transgender or body dysmorphia as they call it, it's got little to do with biology and more to do with a brain imbalance of the complied statistics only 1% of trans have their penis and testicles removed,

70% are classified as men with a fetishism for women's clothing and 20% as gay men who have a problem excepting that.

Of course it's entirely possible the experts could be wrong and they are indeed women trapped in a male body.

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By *isaAndNicoleTransTV/TS
over a year ago

Southport / Ellesmere Port


"If you read the psychological data on transgender or body dysmorphia as they call it, it's got little to do with biology and more to do with a brain imbalance of the complied statistics only 1% of trans have their penis and testicles removed,

70% are classified as men with a fetishism for women's clothing and 20% as gay men who have a problem excepting that.

Of course it's entirely possible the experts could be wrong and they are indeed women trapped in a male body."

Body dysmorphia is a completely different thing and not linked to gender issues necessarily. I think you may need to research gender dysphoria instead. And hormonal imbalance is biological and not psychological.

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By *rotic-TouchTV/TS
over a year ago

doncaster

[Removed by poster at 24/10/19 11:13:51]

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"If you read the psychological data on transgender or body dysmorphia as they call it, it's got little to do with biology and more to do with a brain imbalance of the complied statistics only 1% of trans have their penis and testicles removed,

70% are classified as men with a fetishism for women's clothing and 20% as gay men who have a problem excepting that.

Of course it's entirely possible the experts could be wrong and they are indeed women trapped in a male body.this is just so I'll informed and utter tish "

This is all a total red herring and has nothing to do with the asked question.

I am still waiting for someone to tell me why some should be allowed to openly use body changing hormones to change their bodies and compete in competitive sport while others get banned for using benadryl to stop them sneezing?

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By *rotic-TouchTV/TS
over a year ago

doncaster


"If you read the psychological data on transgender or body dysmorphia as they call it, it's got little to do with biology and more to do with a brain imbalance of the complied statistics only 1% of trans have their penis and testicles removed,

70% are classified as men with a fetishism for women's clothing and 20% as gay men who have a problem excepting that.

Of course it's entirely possible the experts could be wrong and they are indeed women trapped in a male body.this is just so I'll informed and utter tish

This is all a total red herring and has nothing to do with the asked question.

I am still waiting for someone to tell me why some should be allowed to openly use body changing hormones to change their bodies and compete in competitive sport while others get banned for using benadryl to stop them sneezing?"
perhaps you should be asking the international sports council , you won't get your answer here , doubt there is anyone qualified to answer it on here

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

I think it's a sad sign of the times, when the patriarchy can show women that men are better at being women than they are.

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By *rotic-TouchTV/TS
over a year ago

doncaster


"I think it's a sad sign of the times, when the patriarchy can show women that men are better at being women than they are. "
I'd share your sentiments if we lived in a patriarchal society but we don't in this country any longer

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"perhaps you should be asking the international sports council , you won't get your answer here , doubt there is anyone qualified to answer it on here "

Really?

No one here qualified to explain why Lance Armstrong was stripped of 7 Tour de France titles, prosecuted and banned from competitive cycling for life for taking testosterone (supplied by a doctor) but Danny (from accounts) should be able to openly take the same (or even more) testosterone and also be able to compete in the Tour de France because Danny used to be Tracy.

Sounds to me like someone is trying to avoid attempting to justify the unjustifiable.

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By *isaAndNicoleTransTV/TS
over a year ago

Southport / Ellesmere Port


"perhaps you should be asking the international sports council , you won't get your answer here , doubt there is anyone qualified to answer it on here

Really?

No one here qualified to explain why Lance Armstrong was stripped of 7 Tour de France titles, prosecuted and banned from competitive cycling for life for taking testosterone (supplied by a doctor) but Danny (from accounts) should be able to openly take the same (or even more) testosterone and also be able to compete in the Tour de France because Danny used to be Tracy.

Sounds to me like someone is trying to avoid attempting to justify the unjustifiable. "

Totally ludicrous. Taking any amount of hormone doesn't automatically make you a world class sportsperson.

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By *rotic-TouchTV/TS
over a year ago

doncaster


"perhaps you should be asking the international sports council , you won't get your answer here , doubt there is anyone qualified to answer it on here

Really?

No one here qualified to explain why Lance Armstrong was stripped of 7 Tour de France titles, prosecuted and banned from competitive cycling for life for taking testosterone (supplied by a doctor) but Danny (from accounts) should be able to openly take the same (or even more) testosterone and also be able to compete in the Tour de France because Danny used to be Tracy.

Sounds to me like someone is trying to avoid attempting to justify the unjustifiable.

Totally ludicrous. Taking any amount of hormone doesn't automatically make you a world class sportsperson. "
I'm left wondering if the poster has actually approached the relevant authorities about his dismay on the matter ?

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By *isaAndNicoleTransTV/TS
over a year ago

Southport / Ellesmere Port


"perhaps you should be asking the international sports council , you won't get your answer here , doubt there is anyone qualified to answer it on here

Really?

No one here qualified to explain why Lance Armstrong was stripped of 7 Tour de France titles, prosecuted and banned from competitive cycling for life for taking testosterone (supplied by a doctor) but Danny (from accounts) should be able to openly take the same (or even more) testosterone and also be able to compete in the Tour de France because Danny used to be Tracy.

Sounds to me like someone is trying to avoid attempting to justify the unjustifiable.

Totally ludicrous. Taking any amount of hormone doesn't automatically make you a world class sportsperson. I'm left wondering if the poster has actually approached the relevant authorities about his dismay on the matter ? "

He doesn't need to. Clearly he is already an "expert"

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By *rotic-TouchTV/TS
over a year ago

doncaster


"perhaps you should be asking the international sports council , you won't get your answer here , doubt there is anyone qualified to answer it on here

Really?

No one here qualified to explain why Lance Armstrong was stripped of 7 Tour de France titles, prosecuted and banned from competitive cycling for life for taking testosterone (supplied by a doctor) but Danny (from accounts) should be able to openly take the same (or even more) testosterone and also be able to compete in the Tour de France because Danny used to be Tracy.

Sounds to me like someone is trying to avoid attempting to justify the unjustifiable.

Totally ludicrous. Taking any amount of hormone doesn't automatically make you a world class sportsperson. I'm left wondering if the poster has actually approached the relevant authorities about his dismay on the matter ?

He doesn't need to. Clearly he is already an "expert" "
ha yes there's a good few of those on here isn't there Lisa

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

I don't need to be an expert to know that rules have to apply equally to all. I also don't have to be an expert to know there are always those who demand the right to be treated differently because they are 'special'.

I for one have no time for such self aggrandisement or those that jump on said bandwagons because they see an opportunity to gain an unwarranted advantage.

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By *rotic-TouchTV/TS
over a year ago

doncaster


"I don't need to be an expert to know that rules have to apply equally to all. I also don't have to be an expert to know there are always those who demand the right to be treated differently because they are 'special'.

I for one have no time for such self aggrandisement or those that jump on said bandwagons because they see an opportunity to gain an unwarranted advantage."
maybe you ought to be an adjudicator ?

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"maybe you ought to be an adjudicator ? "

What is there to adjudicate?

Either a substance is banned or it's not.

A person either uses it or they don't.

Rules is rules, once you start entertaining any form of exceptionalism you may as well rip up the rules.

I will say this again, I have no problem with anyone using anything to be or go bigger, better, faster, stronger, longer or higher in aspect of life. Just that when it comes to comparisons be it in competition or anywhere else like is compared and competes with like.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If you read the psychological data on transgender or body dysmorphia as they call it, it's got little to do with biology and more to do with a brain imbalance of the complied statistics only 1% of trans have their penis and testicles removed,

70% are classified as men with a fetishism for women's clothing and 20% as gay men who have a problem excepting that.

Of course it's entirely possible the experts could be wrong and they are indeed women trapped in a male body.

Body dysmorphia is a completely different thing and not linked to gender issues necessarily. I think you may need to research gender dysphoria instead. And hormonal imbalance is biological and not psychological. "

Hormonal imbalance yes can be classed as biological which in turn causes psychological shifts of the mind.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But for the topic of sports I really don't give a damn but I fully understand and agree with the view that if you're born a "normal" boy with a willy etc you are a boy and will be for your entire lifetime.

Chopping off your anatomy doesn't change it in my view but I also fully know not everyone will agree with me

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By *isaAndNicoleTransTV/TS
over a year ago

Southport / Ellesmere Port


"But for the topic of sports I really don't give a damn but I fully understand and agree with the view that if you're born a "normal" boy with a willy etc you are a boy and will be for your entire lifetime.

Chopping off your anatomy doesn't change it in my view but I also fully know not everyone will agree with me "

I take it you've never met a fully transitioned M2F?

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport


"But for the topic of sports I really don't give a damn but I fully understand and agree with the view that if you're born a "normal" boy with a willy etc you are a boy and will be for your entire lifetime.

Chopping off your anatomy doesn't change it in my view but I also fully know not everyone will agree with me

I take it you've never met a fully transitioned M2F? "

Probably has met a fully transitioned MTF, at least in passing somewhere. But they didn't see it necessary to explain their full medical history to someone that didn't need to know.

For guidance, here's some tips on how to unerringly recognise transwomen:

1. This is no way to unerringly recognise a transwoman.

2. Um, that's it really.

Any check that would detect 100% of transwomen (up to and including genetic testing) will give a false indication for some number of ciswomen.

Any check that would recognise 100% of ciswomen correctly, will give a false indication for some number of transwomen.

Eg. Toilet policing? In redneck states of the US where this happens, it is overwhelmingly ciswomen of more-masculine appearance that are the ones victimised. Protecting women by passing anti-trans legislation, which disconveniences and harms... mainly women.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"But for the topic of sports I really don't give a damn but I fully understand and agree with the view that if you're born a "normal" boy with a willy etc you are a boy and will be for your entire lifetime.

Chopping off your anatomy doesn't change it in my view but I also fully know not everyone will agree with me

I take it you've never met a fully transitioned M2F? "

I really don't see the relevance to be honest

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By *isaAndNicoleTransTV/TS
over a year ago

Southport / Ellesmere Port


"But for the topic of sports I really don't give a damn but I fully understand and agree with the view that if you're born a "normal" boy with a willy etc you are a boy and will be for your entire lifetime.

Chopping off your anatomy doesn't change it in my view but I also fully know not everyone will agree with me

I take it you've never met a fully transitioned M2F?

I really don't see the relevance to be honest "

If you had you wouldn't display such ignorance. And I don't mean that in a rude way. It's not all about "Chopping off your anatomy"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"But for the topic of sports I really don't give a damn but I fully understand and agree with the view that if you're born a "normal" boy with a willy etc you are a boy and will be for your entire lifetime.

Chopping off your anatomy doesn't change it in my view but I also fully know not everyone will agree with me

I take it you've never met a fully transitioned M2F?

I really don't see the relevance to be honest

If you had you wouldn't display such ignorance. And I don't mean that in a rude way. It's not all about "Chopping off your anatomy" "

I'm only looking at this through the OP's question, as I said I know people will disagree with me and others won't.

It's all good

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By *isaAndNicoleTransTV/TS
over a year ago

Southport / Ellesmere Port


"But for the topic of sports I really don't give a damn but I fully understand and agree with the view that if you're born a "normal" boy with a willy etc you are a boy and will be for your entire lifetime.

Chopping off your anatomy doesn't change it in my view but I also fully know not everyone will agree with me

I take it you've never met a fully transitioned M2F?

I really don't see the relevance to be honest

If you had you wouldn't display such ignorance. And I don't mean that in a rude way. It's not all about "Chopping off your anatomy"

I'm only looking at this through the OP's question, as I said I know people will disagree with me and others won't.

It's all good "

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London

[Removed by poster at 24/10/19 15:22:33]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Honestly, I'd just say add a trans games. That way trans women don't crush biological women.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Motorcyclist who identifies as cyclist wins Tour de France.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I totally agree with this especially because there's men purposely identifying and trans women to win competition and even breaking records this madness needs to stop. Imagine you have a daughter that's trained hard all her life to get beaten by a man in a skirt come on has some sense people "

Who? Who are these men who are identifying as women solely and specifically with the intention of winning sports competitions? Find me one.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I totally agree with this especially because there's men purposely identifying and trans women to win competition and even breaking records this madness needs to stop. Imagine you have a daughter that's trained hard all her life to get beaten by a man in a skirt come on has some sense people

Who? Who are these men who are identifying as women solely and specifically with the intention of winning sports competitions? Find me one. "

Would you actually expect any of them to admit it if true?! Given the high prize money in some sports though, it's a potential future reality. As a biologically born man, and happy to be that way, I'm content to step back from this one and watch with glee as the real women and fake women screech this one out

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By *an For YouMan
over a year ago

belfast/holywood

No

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By *abrielle247Couple (FF)
over a year ago

PDI Gran Canaria


"

Same person who asked me what race i wanted to be.

Is there such a thing?

One species, one skin.

"

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By *abrielle247Couple (FF)
over a year ago

PDI Gran Canaria


"Caster Semenya is the lady from South Africa.

She won, then lost, then re-won titles.

Because her testosterone was too high.

Semenya is xy 46 ( DSD)

A condition which means she has female & male genitalia.

But where 1 is suppressed by doctors & prescribed treatments.

As the silver & bronze medal winners were also xy 46 , there is a huge debate on muscle memory.

Xy 46 will develop bigger hearts bigger muscle capacity etc while still being women with massively underdeveloped gonads & male genitalia

Yes, nothing in life is ever black and white.

It upsets those unable to think in more than a binary way."

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"

Same person who asked me what race i wanted to be.

Is there such a thing?

One species, one skin.

"

The Human Race.

That's the only race I am in.

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport


"I totally agree with this especially because there's men purposely identifying and trans women to win competition and even breaking records this madness needs to stop. Imagine you have a daughter that's trained hard all her life to get beaten by a man in a skirt come on has some sense people

Who? Who are these men who are identifying as women solely and specifically with the intention of winning sports competitions? Find me one.

Would you actually expect any of them to admit it if true?! Given the high prize money in some sports though, it's a potential future reality. As a biologically born man, and happy to be that way, I'm content to step back from this one and watch with glee as the real women and fake women screech this one out "

Of course it's not true. It's just utter bollocks spouted by arsewiping papers like the mirror, the mail and the sun.

Show me one male athlete that, in order to win a comparatively small sum of money, is going to do the following:

1. Make a public announcement to their family, friends, employers, the world at large, that they are transgender and wish to be forever afterwards treated as female.

2. Make legal declarations changing to a female name for passport, driving licence, bank accounts, house ownership, every single official purpose.

3. Spend minimum two years living as a female, dressing as a female, working as a female, while not even yet having been seen by gender specialist doctors. Getting on the waiting list can take a year, then the waiting period before first consultation is now over a year.

4. When finally getting a consultation, having to satisfy doctors and psychologists that they are serious. Having to divulge the most private details of their personal life and sexual activites. Being denied any chance of treatment if those doctors have the slightest doubt about their honesty.

5. Start taking hormone treatments that will destroy their sexual desire and kill their sperm producing cells. After three months of hormones they will never have another erection, never be able to have a child.

6. Have massive intrusive surgery to face in order to appear more female, including having pieces sawed out of jawbone, nose broken, forehead bones shaved down. Oh, and the way that the facial skin has to be peeled off in order to get to those bones, will mean severing of some facial nerves and a permanent loss of sensation in parts of the face. This will then take 4 to 6 months for all bruising to disappear, and up to 2 years for all swelling to go down and face to settle into new shape.

7. Have expensive hair removal sessions for over a year. This will include laser treatment and/or electrolyis on the face. For anyone with blond hair or dark skin, laser treatment will be ineffective and electrolyis will be needed - painful and slow.

But apart from the face, there will be multiple sessions of electrolysis to remove hairs from scrotum and penis shaft - this is not cosmetic but a matter of need before the surgery to follow. The hair removal will hurt so much that the athlete will be having difficulty walking for a week after each session, never mind running.

8. Finally get to the stage of gender confirmation surgery, three to five years after first public declaration of being transgender. The surgery will consist of removing the testicles and discarding them, while preserving the skin of the scrotum. Carefully removing the glans of the penis keeping it attached to blood vessels and nerves, peeling the skin from the shaft, removing the internal erectile tissue of the penis. Then making an incision between the legs, opening up a passageway, remaking the skin of the penis and scrotum into a tube that can be turned inside out and pushed up into the abdomen to form a vagina. The nerve bundles, glans and some of the erectile tissue will be used to sculpt an approximation to vaginal lips and clitoris. Unfortunately there is a good chance of nerve damage such that sexual sensation may be reduced or lost completely.

9. Lie in bed for several weeks while primary healing takes place. Then only be able to walk with discomfort for several months. Meanwhile there is massive muscle wasting in legs and other parts of the body, because of being unable to carry out any exercise.

10. Have to perform daily medical procedures to prevent the new vagina from from just shrinking away and the entrance healing up. This basically involves having to insert a series of increasing sized dildos, for periods up to several hours each day, to stretch the vagina. This process is not sexually enjoyable, in fact in the early weeks and months can be extremely painful.

11. For the rest of their life have to take regular hormone treatments. This is not just to help promote development of female secondary sexual characteristics, but is in fact a matter of keeping alive - remember that the testicles were removed, there is now zero natural sex hormones in the body, and if the female hormone treatments are stopped there are many life threatening complications.

12. Expect a reduced lifetime, with higher than normal chance of getting various forms of cancer. Expect to require regular check ups for both breast cancer and prostate cancer. Expect to have to explain at public desks in hospitals and doctors surgeries that yes they are a woman but yes they do need checking for male specific disorders.

13. I could go on, but i hope that's enough for even the most stupid person to realise that NOBODY goes through gender transition just for the sake of trying to gain a little bit of competitive advantage in sports.

It literally does not happen and never will happen.

PS. For all those men crossing their legs and squirming at the description of the penis being skinned - if you browse YouTube you will easily be able to find videos of the full operation, i am not going to give links, look for them yourselves. Watch that, then come back to me and say honestly that anybody would go through it just to get some poxy gold medal.

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By *isaAndNicoleTransTV/TS
over a year ago

Southport / Ellesmere Port


"I totally agree with this especially because there's men purposely identifying and trans women to win competition and even breaking records this madness needs to stop. Imagine you have a daughter that's trained hard all her life to get beaten by a man in a skirt come on has some sense people

Who? Who are these men who are identifying as women solely and specifically with the intention of winning sports competitions? Find me one.

Would you actually expect any of them to admit it if true?! Given the high prize money in some sports though, it's a potential future reality. As a biologically born man, and happy to be that way, I'm content to step back from this one and watch with glee as the real women and fake women screech this one out

Of course it's not true. It's just utter bollocks spouted by arsewiping papers like the mirror, the mail and the sun.

Show me one male athlete that, in order to win a comparatively small sum of money, is going to do the following:

1. Make a public announcement to their family, friends, employers, the world at large, that they are transgender and wish to be forever afterwards treated as female.

2. Make legal declarations changing to a female name for passport, driving licence, bank accounts, house ownership, every single official purpose.

3. Spend minimum two years living as a female, dressing as a female, working as a female, while not even yet having been seen by gender specialist doctors. Getting on the waiting list can take a year, then the waiting period before first consultation is now over a year.

4. When finally getting a consultation, having to satisfy doctors and psychologists that they are serious. Having to divulge the most private details of their personal life and sexual activites. Being denied any chance of treatment if those doctors have the slightest doubt about their honesty.

5. Start taking hormone treatments that will destroy their sexual desire and kill their sperm producing cells. After three months of hormones they will never have another erection, never be able to have a child.

6. Have massive intrusive surgery to face in order to appear more female, including having pieces sawed out of jawbone, nose broken, forehead bones shaved down. Oh, and the way that the facial skin has to be peeled off in order to get to those bones, will mean severing of some facial nerves and a permanent loss of sensation in parts of the face. This will then take 4 to 6 months for all bruising to disappear, and up to 2 years for all swelling to go down and face to settle into new shape.

7. Have expensive hair removal sessions for over a year. This will include laser treatment and/or electrolyis on the face. For anyone with blond hair or dark skin, laser treatment will be ineffective and electrolyis will be needed - painful and slow.

But apart from the face, there will be multiple sessions of electrolysis to remove hairs from scrotum and penis shaft - this is not cosmetic but a matter of need before the surgery to follow. The hair removal will hurt so much that the athlete will be having difficulty walking for a week after each session, never mind running.

8. Finally get to the stage of gender confirmation surgery, three to five years after first public declaration of being transgender. The surgery will consist of removing the testicles and discarding them, while preserving the skin of the scrotum. Carefully removing the glans of the penis keeping it attached to blood vessels and nerves, peeling the skin from the shaft, removing the internal erectile tissue of the penis. Then making an incision between the legs, opening up a passageway, remaking the skin of the penis and scrotum into a tube that can be turned inside out and pushed up into the abdomen to form a vagina. The nerve bundles, glans and some of the erectile tissue will be used to sculpt an approximation to vaginal lips and clitoris. Unfortunately there is a good chance of nerve damage such that sexual sensation may be reduced or lost completely.

9. Lie in bed for several weeks while primary healing takes place. Then only be able to walk with discomfort for several months. Meanwhile there is massive muscle wasting in legs and other parts of the body, because of being unable to carry out any exercise.

10. Have to perform daily medical procedures to prevent the new vagina from from just shrinking away and the entrance healing up. This basically involves having to insert a series of increasing sized dildos, for periods up to several hours each day, to stretch the vagina. This process is not sexually enjoyable, in fact in the early weeks and months can be extremely painful.

11. For the rest of their life have to take regular hormone treatments. This is not just to help promote development of female secondary sexual characteristics, but is in fact a matter of keeping alive - remember that the testicles were removed, there is now zero natural sex hormones in the body, and if the female hormone treatments are stopped there are many life threatening complications.

12. Expect a reduced lifetime, with higher than normal chance of getting various forms of cancer. Expect to require regular check ups for both breast cancer and prostate cancer. Expect to have to explain at public desks in hospitals and doctors surgeries that yes they are a woman but yes they do need checking for male specific disorders.

13. I could go on, but i hope that's enough for even the most stupid person to realise that NOBODY goes through gender transition just for the sake of trying to gain a little bit of competitive advantage in sports.

It literally does not happen and never will happen.

PS. For all those men crossing their legs and squirming at the description of the penis being skinned - if you browse YouTube you will easily be able to find videos of the full operation, i am not going to give links, look for them yourselves. Watch that, then come back to me and say honestly that anybody would go through it just to get some poxy gold medal."

I have 4 friends that have gone through this process and others in various stages of transition right now. It's so sad that many people on this thread just will not understand, or accept, the points you've made.

Nor does it make them gold medal winning super athletes. Add to the above all of the effort, hard work, dedication and skill that entails becoming a world class sportsperson. While also going through the emotional, psychological and physiological aspects of transition.

This debate is complex, it's a subject I have followed in great interest outside of this thread, listened to arguments from real experts on both sides and despair of people on here who think a man "having his cock chopped off" somehow makes them superhuman.

Thank you for taking the time to post this message.

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By *rotic-TouchTV/TS
over a year ago

doncaster


"I totally agree with this especially because there's men purposely identifying and trans women to win competition and even breaking records this madness needs to stop. Imagine you have a daughter that's trained hard all her life to get beaten by a man in a skirt come on has some sense people

Who? Who are these men who are identifying as women solely and specifically with the intention of winning sports competitions? Find me one.

Would you actually expect any of them to admit it if true?! Given the high prize money in some sports though, it's a potential future reality. As a biologically born man, and happy to be that way, I'm content to step back from this one and watch with glee as the real women and fake women screech this one out

Of course it's not true. It's just utter bollocks spouted by arsewiping papers like the mirror, the mail and the sun.

Show me one male athlete that, in order to win a comparatively small sum of money, is going to do the following:

1. Make a public announcement to their family, friends, employers, the world at large, that they are transgender and wish to be forever afterwards treated as female.

2. Make legal declarations changing to a female name for passport, driving licence, bank accounts, house ownership, every single official purpose.

3. Spend minimum two years living as a female, dressing as a female, working as a female, while not even yet having been seen by gender specialist doctors. Getting on the waiting list can take a year, then the waiting period before first consultation is now over a year.

4. When finally getting a consultation, having to satisfy doctors and psychologists that they are serious. Having to divulge the most private details of their personal life and sexual activites. Being denied any chance of treatment if those doctors have the slightest doubt about their honesty.

5. Start taking hormone treatments that will destroy their sexual desire and kill their sperm producing cells. After three months of hormones they will never have another erection, never be able to have a child.

6. Have massive intrusive surgery to face in order to appear more female, including having pieces sawed out of jawbone, nose broken, forehead bones shaved down. Oh, and the way that the facial skin has to be peeled off in order to get to those bones, will mean severing of some facial nerves and a permanent loss of sensation in parts of the face. This will then take 4 to 6 months for all bruising to disappear, and up to 2 years for all swelling to go down and face to settle into new shape.

7. Have expensive hair removal sessions for over a year. This will include laser treatment and/or electrolyis on the face. For anyone with blond hair or dark skin, laser treatment will be ineffective and electrolyis will be needed - painful and slow.

But apart from the face, there will be multiple sessions of electrolysis to remove hairs from scrotum and penis shaft - this is not cosmetic but a matter of need before the surgery to follow. The hair removal will hurt so much that the athlete will be having difficulty walking for a week after each session, never mind running.

8. Finally get to the stage of gender confirmation surgery, three to five years after first public declaration of being transgender. The surgery will consist of removing the testicles and discarding them, while preserving the skin of the scrotum. Carefully removing the glans of the penis keeping it attached to blood vessels and nerves, peeling the skin from the shaft, removing the internal erectile tissue of the penis. Then making an incision between the legs, opening up a passageway, remaking the skin of the penis and scrotum into a tube that can be turned inside out and pushed up into the abdomen to form a vagina. The nerve bundles, glans and some of the erectile tissue will be used to sculpt an approximation to vaginal lips and clitoris. Unfortunately there is a good chance of nerve damage such that sexual sensation may be reduced or lost completely.

9. Lie in bed for several weeks while primary healing takes place. Then only be able to walk with discomfort for several months. Meanwhile there is massive muscle wasting in legs and other parts of the body, because of being unable to carry out any exercise.

10. Have to perform daily medical procedures to prevent the new vagina from from just shrinking away and the entrance healing up. This basically involves having to insert a series of increasing sized dildos, for periods up to several hours each day, to stretch the vagina. This process is not sexually enjoyable, in fact in the early weeks and months can be extremely painful.

11. For the rest of their life have to take regular hormone treatments. This is not just to help promote development of female secondary sexual characteristics, but is in fact a matter of keeping alive - remember that the testicles were removed, there is now zero natural sex hormones in the body, and if the female hormone treatments are stopped there are many life threatening complications.

12. Expect a reduced lifetime, with higher than normal chance of getting various forms of cancer. Expect to require regular check ups for both breast cancer and prostate cancer. Expect to have to explain at public desks in hospitals and doctors surgeries that yes they are a woman but yes they do need checking for male specific disorders.

13. I could go on, but i hope that's enough for even the most stupid person to realise that NOBODY goes through gender transition just for the sake of trying to gain a little bit of competitive advantage in sports.

It literally does not happen and never will happen.

PS. For all those men crossing their legs and squirming at the description of the penis being skinned - if you browse YouTube you will easily be able to find videos of the full operation, i am not going to give links, look for them yourselves. Watch that, then come back to me and say honestly that anybody would go through it just to get some poxy gold medal."
well said Polly !

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By *amantMan
over a year ago

Alnmouth


"Should trans people male to female be able to compete within female sports where speed and strength are an advantage. What are your thought's really interesting subject. "

Surely it depends on the sport? Do women really have a disadvantage in darts? Or snooker? In something like basketball, a man who is 7 feet tall has a natural advantage over people who are half a foot shorter.

This isn't anywhere near as black and white as some make it out to be. When you have people who were born with female genitals tested to make sure they are female, I think that pretty much sums it up.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Important, too, to keep a sense of perspective.

The proportion of the population who make the transition is tiny.

Within that tiny proportion, the number of people aiming to become elite athletes is vanishingly small.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Important, too, to keep a sense of perspective.

The proportion of the population who make the transition is tiny.

Within that tiny proportion, the number of people aiming to become elite athletes is vanishingly small.

"
.

Until it gets widely accepted then any Tom Harry with a dick can run as a woman.

Also don't you think it's slightly funny how this tiny weeny teeny percentage of "transitioned women" dominate over the 3.2 billion selection pool of women women

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