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"Should I get a beer some popcorn and a comfy sofa? "i wouldn't get too comfy as people don't like to debate in the facts lol | |||
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"complete tumblewead.... WOW "excuse the spelling, wouldn't allow the word with two e's in it lol | |||
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"Bojo is a liar. Fact  "just about sums up the approach lol | |||
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"The REMAINIACS will be along later. they are all working at the moment." They are all trying to work out how to spin the fact that he has put a proposal to the eu when they all said he wanted to leave without an agreement. | |||
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"Consider investigating some facts yourself op, so that you start with a more balanced perspective. There are also over3 years of posts from all perspectives, that would potentially refresh your understanding. Also I'm curious about what deficits you may have in your knowledge base as well as your motivation for creating this post? If you answer those points, you presumably will be briefing others, so that they'll be fully and accurately briefed, before considering whether and how to invest their efforts into your demands. " I have read huge numbers of posts and unfortunately none of them are based on any facts, just opinions. and absolutely everyone is entitled to their opinion but unfortunately there is a very vast majority (but I won't say all) of remain perspectives which are purely based on personally bashing brexiteers without any basis. | |||
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"Consider investigating some facts yourself op, so that you start with a more balanced perspective. There are also over3 years of posts from all perspectives, that would potentially refresh your understanding. Also I'm curious about what deficits you may have in your knowledge base as well as your motivation for creating this post? If you answer those points, you presumably will be briefing others, so that they'll be fully and accurately briefed, before considering whether and how to invest their efforts into your demands. " P.S. a very clever post to avoid putting forward any valid arguments | |||
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"Consider investigating some facts yourself op, so that you start with a more balanced perspective. There are also over3 years of posts from all perspectives, that would potentially refresh your understanding. Also I'm curious about what deficits you may have in your knowledge base as well as your motivation for creating this post? If you answer those points, you presumably will be briefing others, so that they'll be fully and accurately briefed, before considering whether and how to invest their efforts into your demands. P.S. a very clever post to avoid putting forward any valid arguments "I'm working until late this evening and this is not my thread | |||
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"Consider investigating some facts yourself op, so that you start with a more balanced perspective. There are also over3 years of posts from all perspectives, that would potentially refresh your understanding. Also I'm curious about what deficits you may have in your knowledge base as well as your motivation for creating this post? If you answer those points, you presumably will be briefing others, so that they'll be fully and accurately briefed, before considering whether and how to invest their efforts into your demands. " I'll cut and paste this next time any threads or posts ask for brexiters facts for voting leave. | |||
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"Consider investigating some facts yourself op, so that you start with a more balanced perspective. There are also over3 years of posts from all perspectives, that would potentially refresh your understanding. Also I'm curious about what deficits you may have in your knowledge base as well as your motivation for creating this post? If you answer those points, you presumably will be briefing others, so that they'll be fully and accurately briefed, before considering whether and how to invest their efforts into your demands. I'll cut and paste this next time any threads or posts ask for brexiters facts for voting leave. "Most Brexiteer arguments were shot diwn & ripped to pieces over the last 3 years . | |||
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"Just interested....." What argument? There are hundreds of them. Let’s start with something simple. In business it its easier and much more efficient to get more business from your existing customer base than it is to try to find new business in remote locations. Ergo, there is no economic logic in creating new barriers and red tape to deal with your closet and largest trading partners in the hope that more and better business might be found somewhere else. OK this is not an absolute fact that you asked for, but it is not far off considering that it was this very reason that the UK was so energetic in conceptualising and driving forward the Single Market under Margaret Thatchers Premiership. | |||
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"Bojo is a liar. Fact
just about sums up the approach lol"Such a hard case study cannot be summarized .. Unfortunately lol | |||
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"Just interested....." There is no point in putting forward an argument. You can't win an argument with stupid people. | |||
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"Just interested..... There is no point in putting forward an argument. You can't win an argument with stupid people." so anyone who doesnt agree with you are stupid? | |||
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"And because society makes progress when it takes barriers down. Brexit does the opposite. It puts barriers back up. It isolates us from our neighbours, our biggest markets. It is the most insular act of self-harm. " but opens up other doors. | |||
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"Just interested..... There is no point in putting forward an argument. You can't win an argument with stupid people.so anyone who doesnt agree with you are stupid?" No, not at all. Only when it comes to Brexit. | |||
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"And because society makes progress when it takes barriers down. Brexit does the opposite. It puts barriers back up. It isolates us from our neighbours, our biggest markets. It is the most insular act of self-harm. but opens up other doors. "Other doors that aren't going to balance out the damage done. Other doors where we will negotiate from a far, far weaker position. Other doors that will see the US walk all over us and change our laws to get a deal. But that'll be OK for Brexiteers, for some reason. | |||
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"And because society makes progress when it takes barriers down. Brexit does the opposite. It puts barriers back up. It isolates us from our neighbours, our biggest markets. It is the most insular act of self-harm. but opens up other doors. "Trap door? | |||
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"Mental illness associated with Brexit. Doctors reported the case of a British man who suffered from severe psychosis because of Brexit. The man was so delusional and hallucinating that he was taken to a psychiatric hospital, where he tried to bury himself in the floor with his bare hands. The matter was described in a scientific journal." Jacob Rees Mogg | |||
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"Mental illness associated with Brexit. Doctors reported the case of a British man who suffered from severe psychosis because of Brexit. The man was so delusional and hallucinating that he was taken to a psychiatric hospital, where he tried to bury himself in the floor with his bare hands. The matter was described in a scientific journal. Jacob Rees Mogg" I wouldn't be surprised | |||
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"Just interested....." sorry... what am i suppose to be argueing against... because i am soo looking forward to be paying more for my goods because of the tariffs that will go on them.... | |||
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"Just interested....." No idea what argument you are referring to specifically. I guess just the general ‘remaining is better than leaving’? We will lose the right to live and work in 27 other countries. And with that we will lose the rights to protections we currently have (reciprocal heath care, etc) This endeavour will hurt us more than it will thirty the EU. As already evidenced by our currency dropping value and our GDP growth lower than rest of EU. How is that for a start? -Matt | |||
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"Just interested....." Nice one got most of them baffled they have no facts  | |||
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"Just interested.....Nice one got most of them baffled they have no facts "I think you are the one who is baffled. Do you want facts about something that hasn't happened? It was claimed by the Leave campaign that Turkey was going to join the EU. The fact is that Turkey applied to join 30 years ago and they're still no closer to doing so. | |||
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"Consider investigating some facts yourself op, so that you start with a more balanced perspective. There are also over3 years of posts from all perspectives, that would potentially refresh your understanding. Also I'm curious about what deficits you may have in your knowledge base as well as your motivation for creating this post? If you answer those points, you presumably will be briefing others, so that they'll be fully and accurately briefed, before considering whether and how to invest their efforts into your demands. " Didn't answer my points I notice.  | |||
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"How about the purchasing power of your £? Down 15-20% already. And Johnson's chums are lining up to cash in on it crashing through the floor. Because the money markets can see what Brexit will do to Britain's economy." How about in Feb 2016 the IMF and OECD both reported that sterling was overvalued by up to 20%, and woukd need devaluing for the UK to remain competitive. | |||
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"Just interested....." Less barriers to trade Lower costs for trading because of trade agreements Membership of numerous organisations that benefit the UK which facilities joint cooperation on scientific research, security etc etc in a cost sharing partnership The ability to live, work and retire anywhere freely within 28 countries Membership of the world’s largest trading bloc with over 500 million consumers The UK has greater global influence as a member of the EU than just on our own. The EU provides a counterweight to the global power of the US, Russia and China instead of us just being on our own. The EU accounts for 44% of all UK exports of goods and services in a frictionless low cost manner The EU accounts for 53% of all UK imports of goods and services in a frictionless low cost manner No paperwork or customs for UK exports throughout the single market Structural funding from the EU for areas of the UK hit by industrial decline, small businesses, the arts, theatre, sports, film,engineering projects etc etc etc that successive UK Government's have left to rot The UK enjoys an opt out from the single currency and any future major changes within the EU such as being forced into an EU Army and maintains full control of its borders as a non-member of the Schengen area "though UK Government's refuse to do so" Is that enough for you? | |||
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" How about in Feb 2016 the IMF and OECD both reported that sterling was overvalued by up to 20%, and woukd need devaluing for the UK to remain competitive." So why did the UK Government not devalue the £? It has the power to do so. | |||
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"Just interested....." As regards the original question - is there a Brexit voter who can do the same? Their campaign wasn't based on facts - and that is actually a fact. LOL | |||
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"Just interested..... As regards the original question - is there a Brexit voter who can do the same? Their campaign wasn't based on facts - and that is actually a fact. LOL" They have their own thread to do just that but no one has had a go yet | |||
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"Just interested..... Less barriers to trade Lower costs for trading because of trade agreements Membership of numerous organisations that benefit the UK which facilities joint cooperation on scientific research, security etc etc in a cost sharing partnership The ability to live, work and retire anywhere freely within 28 countries Membership of the world’s largest trading bloc with over 500 million consumers The UK has greater global influence as a member of the EU than just on our own. The EU provides a counterweight to the global power of the US, Russia and China instead of us just being on our own. The EU accounts for 44% of all UK exports of goods and services in a frictionless low cost manner The EU accounts for 53% of all UK imports of goods and services in a frictionless low cost manner No paperwork or customs for UK exports throughout the single market Structural funding from the EU for areas of the UK hit by industrial decline, small businesses, the arts, theatre, sports, film,engineering projects etc etc etc that successive UK Government's have left to rot The UK enjoys an opt out from the single currency and any future major changes within the EU such as being forced into an EU Army and maintains full control of its borders as a non-member of the Schengen area "though UK Government's refuse to do so" Is that enough for you? " I would say that is a very good representation of some of the current benefits of being in the EU..... | |||
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"The REMAINIACS will be along later. they are all working at the moment.They are all trying to work out how to spin the fact that he has put a proposal to the eu when they all said he wanted to leave without an agreement. "He’s basically cobbled together something as unworkable as it was two years ago. This notion that the EU won’t compromise is utter nonsense. The Withdrawal Bill already agreed after over two years of negotiations is the compromise. Further compromise from the EU isn’t compromise at all, it’s a move away from the compromise, towards what we might want. The blame tactic is so transparent a five year old monkey could see through it. If you want facts, watch this video.... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UYonSZ8s3_o Then I welcome anyone to come back and counter the numerous facts covered with coherent, objective counter arguments.... Then we’ll see about tumble.... | |||
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"Just interested..... Less barriers to trade Lower costs for trading because of trade agreements Membership of numerous organisations that benefit the UK which facilities joint cooperation on scientific research, security etc etc in a cost sharing partnership The ability to live, work and retire anywhere freely within 28 countries Membership of the world’s largest trading bloc with over 500 million consumers The UK has greater global influence as a member of the EU than just on our own. The EU provides a counterweight to the global power of the US, Russia and China instead of us just being on our own. The EU accounts for 44% of all UK exports of goods and services in a frictionless low cost manner The EU accounts for 53% of all UK imports of goods and services in a frictionless low cost manner No paperwork or customs for UK exports throughout the single market Structural funding from the EU for areas of the UK hit by industrial decline, small businesses, the arts, theatre, sports, film,engineering projects etc etc etc that successive UK Government's have left to rot The UK enjoys an opt out from the single currency and any future major changes within the EU such as being forced into an EU Army and maintains full control of its borders as a non-member of the Schengen area "though UK Government's refuse to do so" Is that enough for you? " But what about the three pin plugs? | |||
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"complete tumblewead.... WOW "Any further update on that? I didn’t realise tumblew*ed kicked in on a forum thread within one hour of a weekday morning post. But tbf I’m not a tumblew*ed expert.  | |||
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"The REMAINIACS will be along later. they are all working at the moment.They are all trying to work out how to spin the fact that he has put a proposal to the eu when they all said he wanted to leave without an agreement. "They all said that did "they" I don't think "they" did  | |||
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"Ive learnt from reading the politics forum over the last 3 years that most people don't give a fuck. There's about 6 regular remainer posters, a couple of leavers , a few of us who are happy just to troll anyone foolish enough to listen. One guy who likes to report what his friends think about it, and that's kind of it. What worries me is that both sides seem to think that coming over like a conceited bore will somehow change the other sides opinion. It won't happen. Well off remainers attacking leavers for being moronic and poorly educated is not a good place to win hearts and minds from. Likewise assuming all remainers are trying to protect cheap winter-sun holidays is probably not, on the whole, accurate. Some of them don't even ski! Only sail... "But I am not well off.... | |||
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" Well off remainers attacking leavers for being moronic and poorly educated is not a good place to win hearts and minds from. " I've never attacked a leaver for being moronic (I earn a pretty average salary, top). But I, and many others, on this forum and on social media and in newspapers and in actual government, have pointed out facts and logical arguments that go against the pie in the sky claims Brexiteers make. It doesn't make any difference. Brexit is a religion. You can't 'both sides' this. I've been waiting for three years for someone to give me the evidence in favour of Brexit, and all I get is 'we won get over it'. | |||
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"Posts by Clem-H-Fandango are the best
"Yep well done Clem. You have about hit the nail on the head there . Not that I agree with your politics but yep you are 100% there. | |||
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"Posts by Clem-H-Fandango are the best
Yep well done Clem. You have about hit the nail on the head there . Not that I agree with your politics but yep you are 100% there."I voted remain and usually vote labour, i assume you're a leave supporting Tory? It takes all sorts to make a world xx | |||
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"And because society makes progress when it takes barriers down. Brexit does the opposite. It puts barriers back up. It isolates us from our neighbours, our biggest markets. It is the most insular act of self-harm. but opens up other doors. "Germany is China's second biggest trading partner. They are a huge exporter. They are in the EU. What has prevented us? | |||
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"And because society makes progress when it takes barriers down. Brexit does the opposite. It puts barriers back up. It isolates us from our neighbours, our biggest markets. It is the most insular act of self-harm. but opens up other doors.
Germany is China's second biggest trading partner.
They are a huge exporter.
They are in the EU.
What has prevented us?"Maybe Germany didn't want the competition? Maybe that wasn't Britain's role within the EU, maybe we have to concentrate on service industry? What we be the point of member states being in competition with each other? | |||
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"And because society makes progress when it takes barriers down. Brexit does the opposite. It puts barriers back up. It isolates us from our neighbours, our biggest markets. It is the most insular act of self-harm. but opens up other doors.
Germany is China's second biggest trading partner.
They are a huge exporter.
They are in the EU.
What has prevented us?"Leavers blame the EU, that's why we're in the current situation | |||
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"And because society makes progress when it takes barriers down. Brexit does the opposite. It puts barriers back up. It isolates us from our neighbours, our biggest markets. It is the most insular act of self-harm. but opens up other doors.
Germany is China's second biggest trading partner.
They are a huge exporter.
They are in the EU.
What has prevented us?
Maybe Germany didn't want the competition? Maybe that wasn't Britain's role within the EU, maybe we have to concentrate on service industry? What we be the point of member states being in competition with each other?"So how does / did Germany suppress the UK's manufacturing then? | |||
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"And because society makes progress when it takes barriers down. Brexit does the opposite. It puts barriers back up. It isolates us from our neighbours, our biggest markets. It is the most insular act of self-harm. but opens up other doors.
Germany is China's second biggest trading partner.
They are a huge exporter.
They are in the EU.
What has prevented us?
Maybe Germany didn't want the competition? Maybe that wasn't Britain's role within the EU, maybe we have to concentrate on service industry? What we be the point of member states being in competition with each other?
So how does / did Germany suppress the UK's manufacturing then? "Im not saying Germany as an individual state does. If you look at the EU as a corporation, does it make sense to have 2 of your highest earning divisions (largest contributors) in competition with each other? No. | |||
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"And because society makes progress when it takes barriers down. Brexit does the opposite. It puts barriers back up. It isolates us from our neighbours, our biggest markets. It is the most insular act of self-harm. but opens up other doors.
Germany is China's second biggest trading partner.
They are a huge exporter.
They are in the EU.
What has prevented us?
Maybe Germany didn't want the competition? Maybe that wasn't Britain's role within the EU, maybe we have to concentrate on service industry? What we be the point of member states being in competition with each other?
So how does / did Germany suppress the UK's manufacturing then?
Im not saying Germany as an individual state does. If you look at the EU as a corporation, does it make sense to have 2 of your highest earning divisions (largest contributors) in competition with each other? No. "It's nothing that we had to do. It's what we chose to do. France retains a lot of manufacturing. So does Italy. We have chosen to do things. Enough of blaming someone else. Outside forces for pushing something on us against our will. | |||
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"And because society makes progress when it takes barriers down. Brexit does the opposite. It puts barriers back up. It isolates us from our neighbours, our biggest markets. It is the most insular act of self-harm. but opens up other doors.
Germany is China's second biggest trading partner.
They are a huge exporter.
They are in the EU.
What has prevented us?
Maybe Germany didn't want the competition? Maybe that wasn't Britain's role within the EU, maybe we have to concentrate on service industry? What we be the point of member states being in competition with each other?
So how does / did Germany suppress the UK's manufacturing then?
Im not saying Germany as an individual state does. If you look at the EU as a corporation, does it make sense to have 2 of your highest earning divisions (largest contributors) in competition with each other? No.
It's nothing that we had to do. It's what we chose to do.
France retains a lot of manufacturing. So does Italy.
We have chosen to do things. Enough of blaming someone else. Outside forces for pushing something on us against our will."Who said it was against our will? Office workers emailing insurance quotes are much less likely to go on strike than hairy ass manufacturing engineers. Or coal miners, and who cares if they do?In the uk our past industrial action had bitten us on the ass. In manufacturing, we only lead Europe in aerospace. After Brexit, that will probably be an end to that to. | |||
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"Posts by Clem-H-Fandango are the best
Yep well done Clem. You have about hit the nail on the head there . Not that I agree with your politics but yep you are 100% there.
I voted remain and usually vote labour, i assume you're a leave supporting Tory? It takes all sorts to make a world xx"Ha ha, you're 50% right LOL
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"The USA applying tariffs to China, EU, whilst continuing tariffs with several other countries, makes the thought of having "the best deal ever" with a protective administration AFTER brexit a nonsensical paradox." Not to mention Truss basically say that we’d be happy to lower standards in order to “have more flexibility”. The idea that a Trump led deal with the US would be in anything other the US’s best interests is laughable. | |||
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"I think what some remainers fail to grasp is that some people just want to leave the EU. They don't need a reason. If we all made decisions based on sound reason we'd all support Manchester city. Some people go with their gut. Some people can have a honors degree in political studies, but still not know how to wire a plug. It takes all sorts we don't know what motivates people to vote either way. If you've got close business ties with Europe you probably voted remain. If you feel your plumbing business has been hit by an influx of polish plumbers you probably voted leave. The actual fore and against remaining in the EU argument is really meaningless to most. " Maybe that’s the entire point. Voting on such an important thing surely shouldn’t have been done by people for whom the arguments were meaningless. | |||
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"I think what some remainers fail to grasp is that some people just want to leave the EU. They don't need a reason. If we all made decisions based on sound reason we'd all support Manchester city. Some people go with their gut. Some people can have a honors degree in political studies, but still not know how to wire a plug. It takes all sorts we don't know what motivates people to vote either way. If you've got close business ties with Europe you probably voted remain. If you feel your plumbing business has been hit by an influx of polish plumbers you probably voted leave. The actual fore and against remaining in the EU argument is really meaningless to most. Maybe that’s the entire point. Voting on such an important thing surely shouldn’t have been done by people for whom the arguments were meaningless." | |||
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"The USA applying tariffs to China, EU, whilst continuing tariffs with several other countries, makes the thought of having "the best deal ever" with a protective administration AFTER brexit a nonsensical paradox. Not to mention Truss basically say that we’d be happy to lower standards in order to “have more flexibility”. The idea that a Trump led deal with the US would be in anything other the US’s best interests is laughable." Truss: What on earth is that?... This is not meant to be sexist btw: I respect (and miss) Theresa May, specially after currently suffering ClownBoJo. But seriously: How come someone so worringly ignorant is in her position? | |||
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"And because society makes progress when it takes barriers down. Brexit does the opposite. It puts barriers back up. It isolates us from our neighbours, our biggest markets. It is the most insular act of self-harm. but opens up other doors.
Germany is China's second biggest trading partner.
They are a huge exporter.
They are in the EU.
What has prevented us?
Leavers blame the EU, that's why we're in the current situation "I think they generally just blame anyone else, never themselves, for everything. They take no responsibility for anything negative, however catastrophic, that they do or may cause. | |||
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" Not to mention Truss basically say that we’d be happy to lower standards in order to “have more flexibility”. The idea that a Trump led deal with the US would be in anything other the US’s best interests is laughable." If the shambles made by the UK of trying to exit the EU is illustrative of the UK's negotiating skills and strengths, we are well and truly fucked. | |||
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" Not to mention Truss basically say that we’d be happy to lower standards in order to “have more flexibility”. The idea that a Trump led deal with the US would be in anything other the US’s best interests is laughable. If the shambles made by the UK of trying to exit the EU is illustrative of the UK's negotiating skills and strengths, we are well and truly fucked. " Some of this stuff is so blindingly obvious it’s almost unbelievable that so many people still either don’t get it, or don’t care. Simply put, we likely will have to “be more flexible” to get a deal with the US, because we’ll be far more dependent on the US than they are on us. You don’t, for example, see us insisting on higher standards like the EU standards, and the US talking about doing that to “be more flexible” in order to get a deal with the US. If that doesn’t make our relative position on the world stage clear, I don’t know what does. | |||
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