Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to Politics |
| Jump to newest |  |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"At €2m between 28, that's an average annual income of less than £65,000 with up to date figures. Most law makers haven't updated their information for over five years and the declared outside earnings range is huge (which is why there is not a clearer figure than between 2m and 4.5m) so it's hard to make a comparison between those 28 and the rest. European Parliament pay is around €104,000 a year with a further €54,000 for expenses which might explain why a long serving member might not require an outside income whereas a newer member would be declaring recent outside earnings. It's one of those where the figures can be massaged any way you like. " Sure. That's not the Brexit party reasoning. Too vain perhaps? "The head of the Brexit Party’s delegation, Nathan Gill, said it topped the list because it had selected representatives who are 'successful' outside of politics."  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Which is true. Farage and Widdecombe obviously pull in a considerable amount of side income, her monotonous yet poisonous newspaper column pays her £10,000 a month, plus other earnings for talking bollocks in public. Farage gets paid every time he turns up on a TV show and why shouldn't he? Plus the other pies he has his fingers in. Habib probably earns most of that €2.5m himself. He probably pulls in over €1m a year through his business. Rupert Lowe, €250k? That's €1.75m between 4. That leaves less than a million between 24. I don't see the point TI is making. MEP's earn money through business ventures and self employment? Of course they do, the same as any member of any parliament has the right to. Some Brexit Party MEP's earn more outside income than other MEP's? Thanks for the info TI. It means fuck all. Unless there's a conflict of interest, in which case just come out and tell us the facts. " They are the elite that they claim to be fighting  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Which is true. Farage and Widdecombe obviously pull in a considerable amount of side income, her monotonous yet poisonous newspaper column pays her £10,000 a month, plus other earnings for talking bollocks in public. Farage gets paid every time he turns up on a TV show and why shouldn't he? Plus the other pies he has his fingers in. Habib probably earns most of that €2.5m himself. He probably pulls in over €1m a year through his business. Rupert Lowe, €250k? That's €1.75m between 4. That leaves less than a million between 24. I don't see the point TI is making. MEP's earn money through business ventures and self employment? Of course they do, the same as any member of any parliament has the right to. Some Brexit Party MEP's earn more outside income than other MEP's? Thanks for the info TI. It means fuck all. Unless there's a conflict of interest, in which case just come out and tell us the facts. They are the elite that they claim to be fighting "Shhh , irony is so rife in Brexit land that they are immune from it | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Apart from Habib, I doubt many would class any of the Brexit MEP's as elite both in terms of stature of proven earning potential. " https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/26/brexit-party-meps-are-eus-biggest-earners-in-second-jobs-study-finds Then look up "eu observer brexit party conflict of interest" The Brexit Party leaders are the elite. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The Guardian piece doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know. At least the EU Observer piece mentions a conflict of interest which TI didn't. An MEP earning €250k in outside income is hardly anything new. " The Brexit Party is the elite. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The Guardian piece doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know. At least the EU Observer piece mentions a conflict of interest which TI didn't. An MEP earning €250k in outside income is hardly anything new. The Brexit Party is the elite." i wouldn't take everything you read in the guardian as gospel mate and post it.Seems to me another non story. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Habib is elite. The rest earn outside salaries by writing utter tosh, appearing on shit TV programmes or speaking utter bollocks in public. Some had successful business practices before becoming MEP's but only Habib can be considered elite. If you take Habib out of the equation, there's not a lot between the Brexit Party, the Italians or the Poles. Ann Widdecombe is certainly not elite. Getting a large sum for appearing on a shit TV show proves this. She's more than likely an MEP because she saw an opportunity to earn £120,000 a year (part time) rather than any true political persuasion of hers. Once she's out of that job, she'll be on TV baking cakes or doing a quiz, giving her agent 20%. " Black is white again
Read the article.
£400,000 a year, a £5,000 per month "consultancy", an LBC radio show pit you in the elite.
In fact Farage is the metropolitan, media elite
The Brexit party have acknowledged all of this. Why are you saying something else? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The Guardian piece doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know. At least the EU Observer piece mentions a conflict of interest which TI didn't. An MEP earning €250k in outside income is hardly anything new. The Brexit Party is the elite.i wouldn't take everything you read in the guardian as gospel mate and post it.Seems to me another non story. "You think it's a lie? This is self-reported by the Brexit Party MEPs themselves and not denied by the Party. Yet you are claiming that the information is unreliable
Try doing the other Google search on the conflict of interests | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The Guardian piece doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know. At least the EU Observer piece mentions a conflict of interest which TI didn't. An MEP earning €250k in outside income is hardly anything new. The Brexit Party is the elite.i wouldn't take everything you read in the guardian as gospel mate and post it.Seems to me another non story.
You think it's a lie?
This is self-reported by the Brexit Party MEPs themselves and not denied by the Party.
Yet you are claiming that the information is unreliable
Try doing the other Google search on the conflict of interests "Your post said the 28 meps, we all know about farage and seems the other poster has done his. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The Guardian piece doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know. At least the EU Observer piece mentions a conflict of interest which TI didn't. An MEP earning €250k in outside income is hardly anything new. The Brexit Party is the elite.i wouldn't take everything you read in the guardian as gospel mate and post it.Seems to me another non story.
You think it's a lie?
This is self-reported by the Brexit Party MEPs themselves and not denied by the Party.
Yet you are claiming that the information is unreliable
Try doing the other Google search on the conflict of interests Your post said the 28 meps, we all know about farage and seems the other poster has done his. "Again, the Brexit party acknowledges that they are "successful", meaning wealthy and brags about it. Yet you claim something else
Not just Farage and Habib.
Read some more about the other names.
Read about the conflicts of interest.
After someone able to be vaguely objective you've slipped into parody  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The Guardian piece doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know. At least the EU Observer piece mentions a conflict of interest which TI didn't. An MEP earning €250k in outside income is hardly anything new. " But the article clearly says "they are the highest paid", not "everyone is making 250k extra, nothing to see here" They are anti european, they tell people not to trust europe, they tell people that they are all corrupt on the take, but they are the biggest earners over there, the MEP from other countries are not making the same as them. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Elite is one of those words thrown about quite easily these days. both sides like to claim the other side is, personally I am sick to my stomach. Of course its a word to make powerful people relatable to their audience, to get them onside. Powerful people need you on their side to get them to do the things they want you to do. Emotive words can calm and sooth, or cause anger and hatred. We need to realise we are being played with, pawns on a chess board. We need to ignore the rhetoric, and look at the facts. " very true ive said as much in other posts.I cant see how people with a bit of money are somehow "elite".You can be elite in things you do but not because of how much money you have.But some who hate the fact that others have more than them need a label to put on it to justify their jealousy. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Elite is one of those words thrown about quite easily these days. both sides like to claim the other side is, personally I am sick to my stomach. Of course its a word to make powerful people relatable to their audience, to get them onside. Powerful people need you on their side to get them to do the things they want you to do. Emotive words can calm and sooth, or cause anger and hatred. We need to realise we are being played with, pawns on a chess board. We need to ignore the rhetoric, and look at the facts. very true ive said as much in other posts.I cant see how people with a bit of money are somehow "elite".You can be elite in things you do but not because of how much money you have.But some who hate the fact that others have more than them need a label to put on it to justify their jealousy." It's the leave/populist game plan though. I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Elite is one of those words thrown about quite easily these days. both sides like to claim the other side is, personally I am sick to my stomach. Of course its a word to make powerful people relatable to their audience, to get them onside. Powerful people need you on their side to get them to do the things they want you to do. Emotive words can calm and sooth, or cause anger and hatred. We need to realise we are being played with, pawns on a chess board. We need to ignore the rhetoric, and look at the facts. very true ive said as much in other posts.I cant see how people with a bit of money are somehow "elite".You can be elite in things you do but not because of how much money you have.But some who hate the fact that others have more than them need a label to put on it to justify their jealousy. It's the leave/populist game plan though. I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy "No mate you are always calling anyone who has money "elite" and i have pointed out numerous times i dont recognize people as elite because they are rich.dont suppose they have a word like racism,sexism,ageism etc for people who hate people more wealthy than them but if they did you are the definition of it. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Elite is one of those words thrown about quite easily these days. both sides like to claim the other side is, personally I am sick to my stomach. Of course its a word to make powerful people relatable to their audience, to get them onside. Powerful people need you on their side to get them to do the things they want you to do. Emotive words can calm and sooth, or cause anger and hatred. We need to realise we are being played with, pawns on a chess board. We need to ignore the rhetoric, and look at the facts. very true ive said as much in other posts.I cant see how people with a bit of money are somehow "elite".You can be elite in things you do but not because of how much money you have.But some who hate the fact that others have more than them need a label to put on it to justify their jealousy. It's the leave/populist game plan though. I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy No mate you are always calling anyone who has money "elite" and i have pointed out numerous times i dont recognize people as elite because they are rich.dont suppose they have a word like racism,sexism,ageism etc for people who hate people more wealthy than them but if they did you are the definition of it. "No. I am not "always" doing that. Elite as used by populists describes the rich, the influential or any other group that don't tow the line from teachers and scientists. You can choose not to recognise anything. You often do if is inconvenient. Brexit MEPs have influence and wealth bit apparently they are doing this selflessly for no personal gain. Especially when choosing what committees to join | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The issue is whether there is a conflict of interest or not which was not mentioned in the Guardian piece because it was a dog shit copy and paste article. With regards to earnings, all the information is available but there are no accurate figures because the declaration form contains ranges of earnings rather than actual earnings. The TI article claims as many as 48 MEP's earn more money through outside interests than they receive for their MEP salary. The actual known figure is 11. The form asks for a job title and for the member to tick a box giving one of the following 6 salary ranges; No remuneration. 1. EUR 1 to EUR 499 gross a month; 2. EUR 500 to EUR 1000 gross a month; 3. EUR 1001 to EUR 5000 gross a month; 4. EUR 5001 to EUR 10000 gross a month; 5. Above EUR 10000 gross a month, with an indication of the nearest EUR 10000 amount. For example, TI state that Barbara Gibson potentially earns €126,000 per annum through outside interests but because the range is so wide she may earn €24,000. As I said before, these numbers can be massaged to suit. Farage gave a simple one page (as almost all members did) declaration. One line to state he earns €40,000 per month from being a director of Thorn In The Side Ltd. Habib's form consists of 19 pages but shows only one extra paid job, paying €40,000 per month as Chief Executive and director of First Property Group. However, he did give his dividend payments under the additional information section which no other members that hold directorships did. It's hardly surprising that successful businessmen and women that have entered politics earn very good money or politicians that have pursued careers in the media are raking it in. The add-on to the outside income is what exactly are they doing to earn the extra salaries and whether the work constitutes a conflict of interest but the media seem more interested in telling us that the Brexit Party members earn more than the rest. Of course they do, the top 4 earn about €2m a year between them. There have been over 20 reports of MEP's breaking the code of conduct over the last few years but nothing has been done and many MEP's list one of their outside interests in the earnings declaration form as being paid by registered lobbying organisations which would breach the lobbying rules of MEP's. Maybe that's the kind of elitism they were talking about. " So we are in agreement. The Brexit party as much the elite and the establishment as they claim to be fighting | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As much as I do not support The Brexit Party, I do not believe them to be elite. What I do believe is that certain MEP's have broken their code of conduct. However, at this time, I am unaware of any Brexit Party members doing so. My previous point is that the articles don't tell us anything we don't already know and suggest there is a problem with certain individuals earning good money when the issue that should be investigated, given the information supplied, is not with the amount earned but whether the employee and MEP has broken any rules and why those that have so far have not faced sanctions. Maybe you should give us your definition of elite. " I have. More than once. Have a read. Also read this about conflict of interest: https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-party-kicked-out-mep-for-unacceptable-behaviour-says-nigel-farage-11822555 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I have had a read. You haven't given your definition of elite, only somebody else's. Have a read. Thank you for the link. You do like a link. Hats off to Farage for acting on a possible conflict of interest. We haven't seen that before from Platforma Obywatelska or any other party. As I said before, I do not support the Brexit Party in any way, nor Brexit for that matter. However, I do know when sections of the media peddle stories with their own particular agenda in mind. Your link to The Guardian took me to an absolute pile of shit, copied from another source but failed to mention the point of the original article which was conflict of interest. The Guardian article was only interested in the earnings of particular Brexit Party members. Only a couple of which earn more than Katherine Viner. The TI report complains that no party self regulates it's members over conflict of interest with 24 known violations of the code of conduct and the president doesn't act on those reported. No MEP has been sanctioned, including Louis Michel who should have been thrown out. That has now changed with The Brexit Party doing so. Given their accurate earnings declarations and their sanctioning of a member who may have broken the code of conduct, they are looking like the most transparent of all MEP's. Also, if you want the opposite of elitism, there is a party of which 25% of it's MEP's declared zero outside earnings. Yeah, you guessed it... no link though, it's not the kind of thing that gets reported. " "Brexit MEPs have influence and wealth but apparently they are doing this selflessly for no personal gain. Especially when choosing what committees to join" If you don't like this definition of "elite" then pick another one. The entire point is they fill the criteria of "elite" which they choose to use. Yet another person on here wishing to debate a technicality rather than the actual point, which is their hypocrisy. I like a link because it tells you where my information comes from. If not a link I provide an appropriate search to get to the information. I'm perfectly aware of the Guardian perspective. You had the benefit of seeing that. You do not appear to like a link so you are just making an assertion. 25% (source unknown) have only their MEP salary so that is a definition of not being elite? Again,on their own terms doesn't make them self-serving? Only in it for themselves? More hypocrisy. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Can we just stop pigeonholing people? I think we all need a break, the constant barrage of they said this and they said that is getting too heated. How about we just accept that people ain’t perfect, we’d like to hold other people to the same values we have, but its not possible everyone is different. Just take it easy." The point is that I am not judging them on my terms. As you have said, that never works as an objective measure. I am judging them on their own terms based on wealth, influence and corruption. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" "Brexit MEPs have influence and wealth but apparently they are doing this selflessly for no personal gain. Especially when choosing what committees to join" If you don't like this definition of "elite" then pick another one. I like a link because it tells you where my information comes from. If not a link I provide an appropriate search to get to the information. I'm perfectly aware of the Guardian perspective. You had the benefit of seeing that. You do not appear to like a link so you are just making an assertion. 25% (source unknown) have only their MEP salary so that is a definition of not being elite? Again,on their own terms doesn't make them self-serving? Only in it for themselves? More hypocrisy." Sorry, it wasn't clear that wealth and influence are your definition of elite. I have no problem with links but it depends on the outcome. The EU Observer was fine and the Sky News one was interesting in terms of it kind of answered the EU Observer on the conflict of interest point. I didn't like The Guardian one as previously stated, I don't like lazy journalism which Jennifer Rankin is an exponent of. We could all re-write other people's articles. I've often criticised journalists in other threads. It's not an anti-Guardian thing. Source unknown - As I said, there is no link available. However, all the declaration of interests forms are available and have been for some time. I've read those of interest to me. Out of 28 Brexit Party MEP's, 7 declared zero outside interests or earnings. I don't believe in the elite. Therefore, somebody's salary doesn't mean a thing to me one way or the other and I do not find politicians influential. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" "Brexit MEPs have influence and wealth but apparently they are doing this selflessly for no personal gain. Especially when choosing what committees to join" If you don't like this definition of "elite" then pick another one. I like a link because it tells you where my information comes from. If not a link I provide an appropriate search to get to the information. I'm perfectly aware of the Guardian perspective. You had the benefit of seeing that. You do not appear to like a link so you are just making an assertion. 25% (source unknown) have only their MEP salary so that is a definition of not being elite? Again,on their own terms doesn't make them self-serving? Only in it for themselves? More hypocrisy. Sorry, it wasn't clear that wealth and influence are your definition of elite. I have no problem with links but it depends on the outcome. The EU Observer was fine and the Sky News one was interesting in terms of it kind of answered the EU Observer on the conflict of interest point. I didn't like The Guardian one as previously stated, I don't like lazy journalism which Jennifer Rankin is an exponent of. We could all re-write other people's articles. I've often criticised journalists in other threads. It's not an anti-Guardian thing. Source unknown - As I said, there is no link available. However, all the declaration of interests forms are available and have been for some time. I've read those of interest to me. Out of 28 Brexit Party MEP's, 7 declared zero outside interests or earnings. I don't believe in the elite. Therefore, somebody's salary doesn't mean a thing to me one way or the other and I do not find politicians influential. " They are not my definition. They are the definition used by the Brexit party and other populist groupings. My definition are the best trained and most accomplished of any profession. The SAS. Olympic athletes. Quantum scientists. Chess grand masters. The term had been devalued to describe those in power governing from the top down. See my other thread for another example of that hypocrisy: https://m.fabswingers.com/forum/politics/932819 The reference is to look up "Transparency International EU integrity watch MEP incomes". Look up the earnings of other political parties compared to the Brexit party. Yet only the Brexit party, and ironically the Conservatives, claim to be anti-elitist | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" "Brexit MEPs have influence and wealth but apparently they are doing this selflessly for no personal gain. Especially when choosing what committees to join" If you don't like this definition of "elite" then pick another one. I like a link because it tells you where my information comes from. If not a link I provide an appropriate search to get to the information. I'm perfectly aware of the Guardian perspective. You had the benefit of seeing that. You do not appear to like a link so you are just making an assertion. 25% (source unknown) have only their MEP salary so that is a definition of not being elite? Again,on their own terms doesn't make them self-serving? Only in it for themselves? More hypocrisy. Sorry, it wasn't clear that wealth and influence are your definition of elite. I have no problem with links but it depends on the outcome. The EU Observer was fine and the Sky News one was interesting in terms of it kind of answered the EU Observer on the conflict of interest point. I didn't like The Guardian one as previously stated, I don't like lazy journalism which Jennifer Rankin is an exponent of. We could all re-write other people's articles. I've often criticised journalists in other threads. It's not an anti-Guardian thing. Source unknown - As I said, there is no link available. However, all the declaration of interests forms are available and have been for some time. I've read those of interest to me. Out of 28 Brexit Party MEP's, 7 declared zero outside interests or earnings. I don't believe in the elite. Therefore, somebody's salary doesn't mean a thing to me one way or the other and I do not find politicians influential. " I just reread this. You don't find those who debate and pass the laws that we all live under influential? Intriguing. Who is then? You also don't believe in anyone being elite? Out of religious conviction?  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I have had a read. You haven't given your definition of elite, only somebody else's. Have a read. Thank you for the link. You do like a link. Hats off to Farage for acting on a possible conflict of interest. We haven't seen that before from Platforma Obywatelska or any other party. As I said before, I do not support the Brexit Party in any way, nor Brexit for that matter. However, I do know when sections of the media peddle stories with their own particular agenda in mind. Your link to The Guardian took me to an absolute pile of shit, copied from another source but failed to mention the point of the original article which was conflict of interest. The Guardian article was only interested in the earnings of particular Brexit Party members. Only a couple of which earn more than Katherine Viner. The TI report complains that no party self regulates it's members over conflict of interest with 24 known violations of the code of conduct and the president doesn't act on those reported. No MEP has been sanctioned, including Louis Michel who should have been thrown out. That has now changed with The Brexit Party doing so. Given their accurate earnings declarations and their sanctioning of a member who may have broken the code of conduct, they are looking like the most transparent of all MEP's. Also, if you want the opposite of elitism, there is a party of which 25% of it's MEP's declared zero outside earnings. Yeah, you guessed it... no link though, it's not the kind of thing that gets reported. " I quoted the Guardian as its political position is well known. I was drawing attention to the information in general. The Express headline for the same story is That the Brexit party is "more successful" than Verhofstadt and is even more information free. However, I provided the source do you can make your own judgement. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Post new Message to Thread |
| back to top |  |
