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Brexit Bubble

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Serious question, I live near Milton Keynes, good job, middle of the road politics, lean left rather than right but by no means extreme.

The question I have is do I live in a bubble? I look at Boris and think he’s a clown, JRM even worse but the Conservatives are looking good in the polls, JC is a waste of space and we are crying out for David Miliband to return to the Labour Party. Are there really that many people out there that want the type of Government we are looking at getting with the Boris/Cummings alliance and possibly with Farage involved?

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West


"Serious question, I live near Milton Keynes, good job, middle of the road politics, lean left rather than right but by no means extreme.

The question I have is do I live in a bubble? I look at Boris and think he’s a clown, JRM even worse but the Conservatives are looking good in the polls, JC is a waste of space and we are crying out for David Miliband to return to the Labour Party. Are there really that many people out there that want the type of Government we are looking at getting with the Boris/Cummings alliance and possibly with Farage involved? "

There are lots of people who want simple solutions to their perceived problems and so when people offer simple solutions and shrug off problems - it appeals to them.

The mess that we are in now is because of complacency in education and political awareness. No one really wants to understand politics and economics when Strictly, I am a Celebrity and Bake Off are much more interesting. It really is that simple. Very few people want to take a pragmatic outlook andcwould rather establish a world view and then edit their environment so that only their chosen world view exists.

It is actually a very dangerous situation that we are in right now when people are talking about aggression, unrest, rioting and more - about our future relationship with our closest neighbours and trading partners. That is how febrile some people’s minds have become.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Serious question, I live near Milton Keynes, good job, middle of the road politics, lean left rather than right but by no means extreme.

The question I have is do I live in a bubble? I look at Boris and think he’s a clown, JRM even worse but the Conservatives are looking good in the polls, JC is a waste of space and we are crying out for David Miliband to return to the Labour Party. Are there really that many people out there that want the type of Government we are looking at getting with the Boris/Cummings alliance and possibly with Farage involved?

There are lots of people who want simple solutions to their perceived problems and so when people offer simple solutions and shrug off problems - it appeals to them.

The mess that we are in now is because of complacency in education and political awareness. No one really wants to understand politics and economics when Strictly, I am a Celebrity and Bake Off are much more interesting. It really is that simple. Very few people want to take a pragmatic outlook andcwould rather establish a world view and then edit their environment so that only their chosen world view exists.

It is actually a very dangerous situation that we are in right now when people are talking about aggression, unrest, rioting and more - about our future relationship with our closest neighbours and trading partners. That is how febrile some people’s minds have become."

Good post.

Also there are certain elements that like to frame moderates as extremists. IE Anna Sodbury being called a Nazi by pro brexit protesters.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I totally agree, reading through the forums here I get the sense that there are a lot of like minded people who see this government as veering dangerously to the right as a bad thing, so are we out of touch?

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

We must ask how did the right wing element gain popularity.

Basically it started with the rise of the left wing through Corbyn,to every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.It is also the fault of the so called moderates on both sides trying to work together over Brexit.

If you go back in time you can mirror this loosely to the rise of Scargill and Thatcher.

The British are basically conservative by nature so the winner is likely to be on the right.because the middle squabble like kids.

Now this is a very brief but loose assessment of this but quite acutate I feel

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Yes, tend to agree to a point, but Corbyn being the catalyst?

I suppose my question is am I living in a bubble in the SE, that said I was in Essex a couple of weeks ago and Boris was a popular guy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"We must ask how did the right wing element gain popularity.

Basically it started with the rise of the left wing through Corbyn,to every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.It is also the fault of the so called moderates on both sides trying to work together over Brexit.

If you go back in time you can mirror this loosely to the rise of Scargill and Thatcher.

The British are basically conservative by nature so the winner is likely to be on the right.because the middle squabble like kids.

Now this is a very brief but loose assessment of this but quite acutate I feel"

We could even go further back to the chartists and the tactics of the tories to oppress workers in the 19th century.

The right wing have always wanted to oppress democracy and concentrate power in the a small elite.

It’s an outright lie that they have the interests of the working class and middle class.

But they will use us like puppets in their games.

The only solution to this tyranny is vote and tell those who have not voted to vote, the only way to save democracy is to vote, regardless if its a turd sandwich or a giant douche.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

I find it astonishing the Conservative Party is sitting at 35% in the polls after the shambles they have created, while the main Opposition party, Labour, is at 21%.

I wonder how much of that is down to genuine belief in the ability of the Conservative Party and how much is down to people seeking refuge from the perceived flaws of Jeremy Corbyn.

The Opposition really ought to be miles ahead.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham


"I find it astonishing the Conservative Party is sitting at 35% in the polls after the shambles they have created, while the main Opposition party, Labour, is at 21%.

I wonder how much of that is down to genuine belief in the ability of the Conservative Party and how much is down to people seeking refuge from the perceived flaws of Jeremy Corbyn.

The Opposition really ought to be miles ahead.

"

I keep saying it. Replace JC with someone more moderate, and Labour will walk the next GE.

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By *ittleAcornMan
over a year ago

visiting the beach


"I find it astonishing the Conservative Party is sitting at 35% in the polls after the shambles they have created, while the main Opposition party, Labour, is at 21%.

I wonder how much of that is down to genuine belief in the ability of the Conservative Party and how much is down to people seeking refuge from the perceived flaws of Jeremy Corbyn.

The Opposition really ought to be miles ahead.

I keep saying it. Replace JC with someone more moderate, and Labour will walk the next GE.

"

But isn't that more about perception than reality? If you look at the last Labour manifesto, there is nothing in there I would call extreme, or hard left. In fact a lot of it has been picked up by the Conservatives.

It's more that the media are spinning him as this mad Stalinist, because that suits their agenda.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What makes you think JC is a waste of space?

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham


"I find it astonishing the Conservative Party is sitting at 35% in the polls after the shambles they have created, while the main Opposition party, Labour, is at 21%.

I wonder how much of that is down to genuine belief in the ability of the Conservative Party and how much is down to people seeking refuge from the perceived flaws of Jeremy Corbyn.

The Opposition really ought to be miles ahead.

I keep saying it. Replace JC with someone more moderate, and Labour will walk the next GE.

But isn't that more about perception than reality? If you look at the last Labour manifesto, there is nothing in there I would call extreme, or hard left. In fact a lot of it has been picked up by the Conservatives.

It's more that the media are spinning him as this mad Stalinist, because that suits their agenda."

To win a GE, you have to convince and win middle England, the Shires.

I don't believe that JC does that or can do that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don’t think JC can win an election .I also think the conservatives can’t win an election.

It’s going to be a hung parliament.The liberals will be king makers and this time they will side with labour as will the SNP in a coalition government.

It’ seems inevitable.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham


"I don’t think JC can win an election .I also think the conservatives can’t win an election.

It’s going to be a hung parliament.The liberals will be king makers and this time they will side with labour as will the SNP in a coalition government.

It’ seems inevitable."

For once Bob. I totally agree. There are many Conservatives veering towards Lib Dem.

They gained another 2 MPs last week, more may follow and they have momentum (no pun intended).

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Stress people, grind them down, stoke fears and anger, whilst feeding them soundbite answers that sound a lovely way to melt their troubles away and you get people believing in your propaganda. The right wing extremists have induced this impossible fantasy outcome after creating the immense stresses on to lives, stagnant or falling living conditions, diminished security of work, income, housing etc and people wanting the simple, infantile dreams of the golden past. Time to wake up.

There's no immediate cure that people have that's universally wanted or palatable. The people bringing truth may be hated more than ever. It may take some time to get progress.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Serious question, I live near Milton Keynes, good job, middle of the road politics, lean left rather than right but by no means extreme.

The question I have is do I live in a bubble? I look at Boris and think he’s a clown, JRM even worse but the Conservatives are looking good in the polls, JC is a waste of space and we are crying out for David Miliband to return to the Labour Party. Are there really that many people out there that want the type of Government we are looking at getting with the Boris/Cummings alliance and possibly with Farage involved? "
.

Simple answer.

Yes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I really do think you should be very wary of imagining that socially enlightened liberal thinking will triumph over the new right - it feels to me that there are so many people out there who want to be empowered by belonging to a group of like minded and right(sic) thinking cohort and they are willing to sacrifice their own interests for the comfort of being led by the nose by a crypto fascist pub bore like farage or his desperate power hungry doppelgänger Boris. We are probably heading into the kind of depressing macarthyite world that the Trumps and Dominic Cummings crave.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I don’t think JC can win an election .I also think the conservatives can’t win an election.

It’s going to be a hung parliament.The liberals will be king makers and this time they will side with labour as will the SNP in a coalition government.

It’ seems inevitable.

For once Bob. I totally agree. There are many Conservatives veering towards Lib Dem.

They gained another 2 MPs last week, more may follow and they have momentum (no pun intended). "

I think Tory moderates won’t be comfortable voting for a Brexit party/conservative alliance if it happens and will move over to the Lib Dem’s.

The Lib Dem’s are targeting 70 Tory seats hoping to get their best ever results.

It’s all to play for.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I really do think you should be very wary of imagining that socially enlightened liberal thinking will triumph over the new right - it feels to me that there are so many people out there who want to be empowered by belonging to a group of like minded and right(sic) thinking cohort and they are willing to sacrifice their own interests for the comfort of being led by the nose by a crypto fascist pub bore like farage or his desperate power hungry doppelgänger Boris. We are probably heading into the kind of depressing macarthyite world that the Trumps and Dominic Cummings crave."
.

This isn't a UK thing the whole world is heading to the extremes of politics and has been since 2008 because our trusted liberal leaders made a rather big mess of the financial situation while at the same time running big immigration.

Oops

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham


"I don’t think JC can win an election .I also think the conservatives can’t win an election.

It’s going to be a hung parliament.The liberals will be king makers and this time they will side with labour as will the SNP in a coalition government.

It’ seems inevitable.

For once Bob. I totally agree. There are many Conservatives veering towards Lib Dem.

They gained another 2 MPs last week, more may follow and they have momentum (no pun intended).

I think Tory moderates won’t be comfortable voting for a Brexit party/conservative alliance if it happens and will move over to the Lib Dem’s.

The Lib Dem’s are targeting 70 Tory seats hoping to get their best ever results.

It’s all to play for.

"

As it stands, I won't be voting Conservative again. Until the Party changes fundamentally, and come back a long way to the centre, then my vote is up for grabs.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

So assuming there is a fair representation of the country on FAB how come the people who are replying to this thread seem to be middle of the road central leaning politically, again are we in a bubble and where are the ‘out means out’ brigade?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So assuming there is a fair representation of the country on FAB how come the people who are replying to this thread seem to be middle of the road central leaning politically, again are we in a bubble and where are the ‘out means out’ brigade? "
.

My guess would be they all got banned because a progressive lefty(think the type with free time on they're hands) was volunteering unpaid work as a "moderate" moderator.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So assuming there is a fair representation of the country on FAB how come the people who are replying to this thread seem to be middle of the road central leaning politically, again are we in a bubble and where are the ‘out means out’ brigade? "

They’ve slunk off licking their wounds after Boris had his hands tied,last week and the Conservative lost their majority and any chance of crashing the country out.

That was their last best hope of a hard Brexit.They have no interest in a soft Brexit so off they fucked tail between their legs.Theyll be back if Cummings has cunning plan to crash us out.or they feel the wind blows in their favour ..

A fickle lot.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich


"I totally agree, reading through the forums here I get the sense that there are a lot of like minded people who see this government as veering dangerously to the right as a bad thing, so are we out of touch? "
I wouldn't take much notice of about half a dozen remain fanatics posting on this forum not a very good straw poll.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I totally agree, reading through the forums here I get the sense that there are a lot of like minded people who see this government as veering dangerously to the right as a bad thing, so are we out of touch? I wouldn't take much notice of about half a dozen remain fanatics posting on this forum not a very good straw poll."

This is a good example.

Remainers are "fanatics", with their information and logic/reason based arguments.

Meanwhile leavers, with no information or evidence and their shouty nonsence arguments are the voice of moderation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I totally agree, reading through the forums here I get the sense that there are a lot of like minded people who see this government as veering dangerously to the right as a bad thing, so are we out of touch? I wouldn't take much notice of about half a dozen remain fanatics posting on this forum not a very good straw poll.

This is a good example.

Remainers are "fanatics", with their information and logic/reason based arguments.

Meanwhile leavers, with no information or evidence and their shouty nonsence arguments are the voice of moderation. "

Yes but he is from Norfolk so what more needs to be said

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral


"I find it astonishing the Conservative Party is sitting at 35% in the polls after the shambles they have created, while the main Opposition party, Labour, is at 21%.

I wonder how much of that is down to genuine belief in the ability of the Conservative Party and how much is down to people seeking refuge from the perceived flaws of Jeremy Corbyn.

The Opposition really ought to be miles ahead.

"
It is easy to understand,people like decisive leaders,not flippy floppy half wits like Corbyn who changes his mind more than the weather

I know a remainer and once a Corbyn fan who will now vote for Boris,he hates the conservatives but believes we need strong government,and his company will do better with a definite decision either way and the only way is out it seems

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"I know a remainer and once a Corbyn fan who will now vote for Boris,he hates the conservatives but believes we need strong government,and his company will do better with a definite decision either way and the only way is out it seems"

Do you? Or is that what he tells you to shut you up? I have at least 1 friend who tells me they vote to shut me up (because I know they are not on the electoral roll).

By the way how come in your world there is only one answer and that is the hardest brexit possible based on a vote after the most dishonest and disingenuous campaign in my lifetime. How come you are so set against a second vote now we are all clear as to the reality of leaving the EU? If you are so sure (as most brexiteers continually claim) that you will increase your share of the vote then a 3 month extension and a second (but this time legally binding) referendum (which you will win by a landslide) is surely the obvious way to sort this mess out?

Just a thought for you and the other militant brexiteers to mull over.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I know a remainer and once a Corbyn fan who will now vote for Boris,he hates the conservatives but believes we need strong government,and his company will do better with a definite decision either way and the only way is out it seems

Do you? Or is that what he tells you to shut you up? I have at least 1 friend who tells me they vote to shut me up (because I know they are not on the electoral roll).

By the way how come in your world there is only one answer and that is the hardest brexit possible based on a vote after the most dishonest and disingenuous campaign in my lifetime. How come you are so set against a second vote now we are all clear as to the reality of leaving the EU? If you are so sure (as most brexiteers continually claim) that you will increase your share of the vote then a 3 month extension and a second (but this time legally binding) referendum (which you will win by a landslide) is surely the obvious way to sort this mess out?

Just a thought for you and the other militant brexiteers to mull over."
.

Last time I looked the only people withholding democratic votes are remoaner politicians.

I specifically remember the prime minister David Cameron saying, it will be a once in a lifetime vote, if we vote out we will leave the single market and customs Union (that was one of the reasons I voted remain) and that this vote would be honoured by the politicians of which 99% of parliament voted to hold the vote and select committees scrutinised and the vote leave campaign told them that leaving would mean leaving the common market and customs Union.

But still let's have it your way, let's vote again, I ain't got no skin in the game

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