FabSwingers.com forum: Post Brexit the EU will collapse

By *pitfiremk10 OP Man
over a year ago

Gloucester

The hysteria about Brexit is unnecessary imo. Most German French and Spanish people I talk with all feel the EU has had its time and is unworkable. So it's possible the whole thing will collapse. Most of my European friends think because there are so many languages and culture differences it was never likely to last long. Interested to hear opinions on this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Jesus man, lay off the kool-aid will you!

Bonkers!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Never mind opinions, look at the surveys.

Satisfaction ratings with the EU are 60% and beyond.

This anti-EU disease the Brexiteers hope will infect the rest of Europe has been contained at Dover.

And after seeing how destabilised the UK has become by it all, I doubt anyone is in a rush to head down the same rabbit hole as the British.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You have a very weird set of European friends who worry about language differences.

Most Europeans have been laughing at us since the referendum results came in.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Never mind opinions, look at the surveys.

Satisfaction ratings with the EU are 60% and beyond.

This anti-EU disease the Brexiteers hope will infect the rest of Europe has been contained at Dover.

And after seeing how destabilised the UK has become by it all, I doubt anyone is in a rush to head down the same rabbit hole as the British.

I agree, if we had got a decent deal then maybe others would have been tempted to leave. If and when we crash out with a no deal no other EU country will be stupid enough to leave . By leaving we have strengthened the EU not weakened it

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By *pitfiremk10 OP Man
over a year ago

Gloucester

Contained in Dover? That's interesting because I live in Spain and there are many nationalities here that have voiced there opinions. So it seems the Dover security gate has been breached?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Contained in Dover? That's interesting because I live in Spain and there are many nationalities here that have voiced there opinions. So it seems the Dover security gate has been breached?"

Time will tell then

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Contained in Dover? That's interesting because I live in Spain and there are many nationalities here that have voiced there opinions. So it seems the Dover security gate has been breached?"

so you live in spain... so you took advantage of "freedom of movement" that is now going to be denied to us.....

irony at all?

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By *ailburkeMan
over a year ago

near you

An English Expat/Emigrant living in Spain/EU Backing Brexit thinking the UK leaving the EU will bring down the EU ,aprox 80 million people verse 500 million plus this is why the UK are the laughing stock of Europe and lets not forget that Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to stay in the EU The irony of England and Walse shock and horror of both Scotland and NI wanting to stay in the EU telling the people of both of them countries they cannot have their own independence yet England and Wales demanding independence from the EU not alone the arrogance of some people in the uk thinking they can demand the deal they want from the other EU states blows my mind

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So that's the great Brexiteers hope is it that us leaving the EU will bring the EU crashing down.

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By *pitfiremk10 OP Man
over a year ago

Gloucester

Please advise where in my post did I say I voted to leave or stay. Also should point out you can live pretty much anywhere in Europe post Brexit. Just apply like you would to Australia or Canada for example.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Different languages? English is widely spoken and understood regardless of whether or not in the EU.

Culture, that has never changed, Britain has always been a melting pot of different cultures historically, which have been incorporated and served to better the nation, from the germans, the french, the dutch, and many other nations.

I know it all gets confusing with so many people say we have nothing in common with our european counterparts. But our histories, good or bad have been intertwined for hundreds of years.

On a basic level, we all eat, sleep, drink, and other things which are the same, we bleed red, the majority our bodies are the same configuration, two arms, two legs, a head, a torso, a bottom. A pair of eyes, a mouth, a nose, a pair of ears

We have the same emotions, we laugh, we cry, we are happy, we are sad.

We all live, we all die.

Differences are only skin deep. Just got to keep reminding ourselves all the time.

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By *pitfiremk10 OP Man
over a year ago

Gloucester

I agree. I'm merely giving an insight of my personal experience it's a snapshot if you like but not my personal views. I just feel it's interesting to hear other people's opinions.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"The hysteria about Brexit is unnecessary imo. Most German French and Spanish people I talk with all feel the EU has had its time and is unworkable. So it's possible the whole thing will collapse. Most of my European friends think because there are so many languages and culture differences it was never likely to last long. Interested to hear opinions on this."
Agree 100% was one of my reasons for voting out.On holiday in Greece this year was talking to some Germans who admired us for wanting out and eould be the beginning of the end of the EU

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"So that's the great Brexiteers hope is it that us leaving the EU will bring the EU crashing down.

How Positive a thing is that eh. Wont that make us popular throughout Europe. The catalyst for all of Europe to go their own separate ways and disappear into their own personal pit of populism and nationalism. mmmmmmm can't wait for this brave new world."
Rubbish nobody wants to bring the EU down,personally would prefer it to not to collapse as it would make Europe unstable but we are better off out of it

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By *evil_u_knowMan
over a year ago

city

Ireland just increased its HSE (their version of nhs) budget by 2 billion.

Considering that Ireland is a country of 5 million people, that makes Boris pledge of 1.8 billion to the nhs look like a paltry offering.

So who exactly is collapsing?

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"Please advise where in my post did I say I voted to leave or stay. Also should point out you can live pretty much anywhere in Europe post Brexit. Just apply like you would to Australia or Canada for example. "

I have no right to live and work in Australia or Canada, just like I (and perhaps you) soon will have no right to live and work in Spain.

Brexit removes that right from the people and hands the power to the states.

It is a fundamental change.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

The EU has announced it is opening its "disaster fund" to countries adversely affected by a UK decision to crash out.

This is from Politico:

"Under the new proposal, the EU would "extend the scope of the European Solidarity Fund to cover serious financial burden inflicted on Member States directly imputable to a withdrawal without an agreement and that could not be avoided by preparing in advance."

"Assistance from the European Solidarity Fund would include "support to state aid schemes for businesses, measures to preserve existing employment and ensure the functioning of border, customs and sanitary and phytosanitary controls," the Commission wrote in its communication, adding that it is also proposing "ensuring that the European Globalisation Adjustment Fund is available to support workers made redundant as a consequence of a withdrawal without an agreement, subject to certain conditions."

I read elsewhere that the eligibility criteria is damage amounting to 0.3% of GDP or greater.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

Presumably some of that is money the uk has already contributed to the Eu

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"Ireland just increased its HSE (their version of nhs) budget by 2 billion.

Considering that Ireland is a country of 5 million people, that makes Boris pledge of 1.8 billion to the nhs look like a paltry offering.

So who exactly is collapsing?"

UK spending on the NHS will increase by £6.2 billion next year, with an additional £2 billion for capital projects.

Ireland's €2 billion increase is over 3 years. A lot of Ireland's healthcare is not free, so comparing the two systems is like comparing apples to oranges.

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By *evil_u_knowMan
over a year ago

city

"Ireland just increased its HSE (their version of nhs) budget by 2 billion.

Considering that Ireland is a country of 5 million people, that makes Boris pledge of 1.8 billion to the nhs look like a paltry offering.

So who exactly is collapsing?

UK spending on the NHS will increase by £6.2 billion next year, with an additional £2 billion for capital projects.

Ireland's €2 billion increase is over 3 years. A lot of Ireland's healthcare is not free, so comparing the two systems is like comparing apples to oranges. "

Both countries announced out of budget increases. Ireland will also have HSE budget increases at budget time.

It's apples to apples. What the UK or Ireland might do next year in their budgets is oranges to oranges.

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By *pitfiremk10 OP Man
over a year ago

Gloucester

I have no right to live and work in Australia or Canada, just like I (and perhaps you) soon will have no right to live and work in Spain.

Brexit removes that right from the people and hands the power to the states.

It is a fundamental change.

"
I have full residency in Spain so will continue to live and run my business legally. Post Brexit anyone can apply for citizenship just as before we joined the EEC in 1975.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"Ireland just increased its HSE (their version of nhs) budget by 2 billion.

Considering that Ireland is a country of 5 million people, that makes Boris pledge of 1.8 billion to the nhs look like a paltry offering.

So who exactly is collapsing?"
Irrevilent

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"Presumably some of that is money the uk has already contributed to the Eu

When a vandal damages the neighbour's property, you'd expect the vandal to pay for the damage.

This is no different.

Deliberately crashing out of the EU, severing every legal link overnight and reinstating every barrier that people spent 50 years taking down, is an act of economic and social vandalism.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Presumably some of that is money the uk has already contributed to the Eu

When a vandal damages the neighbour's property, you'd expect the vandal to pay for the damage.

This is no different.

Deliberately crashing out of the EU, severing every legal link overnight and reinstating every barrier that people spent 50 years taking down, is an act of economic and social vandalism.

I don't agree.

Yes there will be economic damage all round by a no deal but it's the UK's sovereign right to choose how and when we leave.

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

"Presumably some of that is money the uk has already contributed to the Eu

When a vandal damages the neighbour's property, you'd expect the vandal to pay for the damage.

This is no different.

Deliberately crashing out of the EU, severing every legal link overnight and reinstating every barrier that people spent 50 years taking down, is an act of economic and social vandalism.

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By *pitfiremk10 OP Man
over a year ago

Gloucester

"Presumably some of that is money the uk has already contributed to the Eu

When a vandal damages the neighbour's property, you'd expect the vandal to pay for the damage.

This is no different.

Deliberately crashing out of the EU, severing every legal link overnight and reinstating every barrier that people spent 50 years taking down, is an act of economic and social vandalism.

That the people voted for

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"Presumably some of that is money the uk has already contributed to the Eu

When a vandal damages the neighbour's property, you'd expect the vandal to pay for the damage.

This is no different.

Deliberately crashing out of the EU, severing every legal link overnight and reinstating every barrier that people spent 50 years taking down, is an act of economic and social vandalism.

That the people voted for"

Can you show me where anyone in the Leave campaign said this is what a vote for Leave would mean.

You'll find that anyone who suggested such an outcome was dismissed as being completely bonkers.

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By *pitfiremk10 OP Man
over a year ago

Gloucester

I'm sorry I mean no disrespect but you are going off thread

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"Most of my European friends think because there are so many languages and culture differences it was never likely to last long. Interested to hear opinions on this."

If language is such a barrier to co-operation, how do you know what your friends are saying?

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By *mmmMaybeCouple
over a year ago

West Wales

"Contained in Dover? That's interesting because I live in Spain and there are many nationalities here that have voiced there opinions. So it seems the Dover security gate has been breached?

so you live in Spain... so you took advantage of "freedom of movement" that is now going to be denied to us.....

irony at all?

Try reading a few books, you'll find people travelled & lived in all parts of the world before the EU, In fact they've been doing it for centuries. Free movement made it "easier" not "possible".

Sometimes things should be harder just to stop every bugger doing it.

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By *pitfiremk10 OP Man
over a year ago

Gloucester

"Most of my European friends think because there are so many languages and culture differences it was never likely to last long. Interested to hear opinions on this.

If language is such a barrier to co-operation, how do you know what your friends are saying?

Because I speak German and Spanish! And I'm pretty sure you thought I'd fall into that trap.

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By *pitfiremk10 OP Man
over a year ago

Gloucester

"Contained in Dover? That's interesting because I live in Spain and there are many nationalities here that have voiced there opinions. So it seems the Dover security gate has been breached?

so you live in Spain... so you took advantage of "freedom of movement" that is now going to be denied to us.....

irony at all?

Try reading a few books, you'll find people travelled & lived in all parts of the world before the EU, In fact they've been doing it for centuries. Free movement made it "easier" not "possible".

Sometimes things should be harder just to stop every bugger doing it.

Totally agree with you there

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I don't see this perspective from living in Europe and my contacts.

The trade agreements are a massive benefit for each country and the people.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Most of my European friends think because there are so many languages and culture differences it was never likely to last long. Interested to hear opinions on this.

If language is such a barrier to co-operation, how do you know what your friends are saying?

Because I speak German and Spanish! And I'm pretty sure you thought I'd fall into that trap. "

Using your linguistic skills to cooperate with other European people to come to the conclusion that language is a barrier to cooperation.

I think you've snookered yourself there mate. Ha.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Been saying that amongst friends for years even before we voted to leave. The cracks were being ignored. 10 years is what I give it. The EU were never going to let anyone out of prison, look at Greece's attempt, blackm*iled and brown enveloped to remain and especially not a big payer I mean player like the UK

It can't afford it as it is. France and Italy have been talking about leaving longer than we.

The sad thing is how the government has shown disregard for democracy whether you're a exiter or remainder for their own interests. A precedent has been set in many minds they if they don't like the results then ignore and try again. Sturgeon has been doing this for the past few years too.

Back to the question...yes it'll collapse sooner than most think. It may only take one big players economy to crash.

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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield /derby cinemas

A Kantar poll , reported in April showed support for remaining in the EU in member states as Italy 72% ,,, Ireland 91% ,,, Portugal 92% ,,, Czech Rep 66% ,,, Holland 91% ,,, Luxembourg 94% ,,, Every member state apart from the UK at 55% and Czech Rep 66% ,, was over 70% ,,, so , despite the predictions it doesn't appear that all the other countries are desperate to leave , it looks as though the domino effect may just be one double blank tumbling on its own

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By *pitfiremk10 OP Man
over a year ago

Gloucester

Points appreciated. Time will tell I think

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By *pitfiremk10 OP Man
over a year ago

Gloucester

"Most of my European friends think because there are so many languages and culture differences it was never likely to last long. Interested to hear opinions on this.

If language is such a barrier to co-operation, how do you know what your friends are saying?

Because I speak German and Spanish! And I'm pretty sure you thought I'd fall into that trap.

Using your linguistic skills to cooperate with other European people to come to the conclusion that language is a barrier to cooperation.

I think you've snookered yourself there mate. Ha.

Quite the reverse I think I'm English by birth but took the time to learn 2 languages, how many Brits do that?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Most of my European friends think because there are so many languages and culture differences it was never likely to last long. Interested to hear opinions on this.

If language is such a barrier to co-operation, how do you know what your friends are saying?

Because I speak German and Spanish! And I'm pretty sure you thought I'd fall into that trap.

Using your linguistic skills to cooperate with other European people to come to the conclusion that language is a barrier to cooperation.

I think you've snookered yourself there mate. Ha.

Quite the reverse I think I'm English by birth but took the time to learn 2 languages, how many Brits do that? "

Is language a barrier between your friends ..Answer No

Is language a barrier between EU states ..Answer No

So you first assertion that there are so many languages it’s unlikely the E.U. would work is wrong as you’ve pointed out yourself..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Most of my European friends think because there are so many languages and culture differences it was never likely to last long. Interested to hear opinions on this.

If language is such a barrier to co-operation, how do you know what your friends are saying?

Because I speak German and Spanish! And I'm pretty sure you thought I'd fall into that trap.

Using your linguistic skills to cooperate with other European people to come to the conclusion that language is a barrier to cooperation.

I think you've snookered yourself there mate. Ha.

Quite the reverse I think I'm English by birth but took the time to learn 2 languages, how many Brits do that? "

So you're suggesting that Brits who don't learn foreign languages are causing the lack of EU cooperation?

If that were true (it's not). Then the UK leaving the EU would help, rather then hinder.

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By *V-AliceTV/TS
over a year ago

Ayr

"Interested to hear opinions on this."

Your opinion is unlikely to be valid, since you and your friends are a very small, unrepresentative sample of Europeans.

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By *ore of thatMan
over a year ago

skerries

Think Britain wants their cake and eat it ...if they want out then get out .the world doesn't revolve around Britain .not Great Britain anymore

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By *anejohnkent6263Couple
over a year ago

canterbury

Turkeys don't vote for xmas

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Presumably some of that is money the uk has already contributed to the Eu

When a vandal damages the neighbour's property, you'd expect the vandal to pay for the damage.

This is no different.

Deliberately crashing out of the EU, severing every legal link overnight and reinstating every barrier that people spent 50 years taking down, is an act of economic and social vandalism.

What tosh. It is an act of regaining independence from a corrupt union and of not being tied to a judicial system that confers rights on criminals who give no fig for anyone elses rights

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Presumably some of that is money the uk has already contributed to the Eu

When a vandal damages the neighbour's property, you'd expect the vandal to pay for the damage.

This is no different.

Deliberately crashing out of the EU, severing every legal link overnight and reinstating every barrier that people spent 50 years taking down, is an act of economic and social vandalism.

What tosh. It is an act of regaining independence from a corrupt union and of not being tied to a judicial system that confers rights on criminals who give no fig for anyone elses rights"

Do you genuinely believe this?

In which case the big loser here is the British education system.

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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield /derby cinemas

[Removed by poster at 07/09/19 10:45:23]

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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield /derby cinemas

"Turkeys don't vote for xmas"
. Turkey don't get a vote ,, ,, they are not in the EU

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By *ylonSlutTV/TS
over a year ago

Durham

"Presumably some of that is money the uk has already contributed to the Eu

When a vandal damages the neighbour's property, you'd expect the vandal to pay for the damage.

This is no different.

Deliberately crashing out of the EU, severing every legal link overnight and reinstating every barrier that people spent 50 years taking down, is an act of economic and social vandalism.

What tosh. It is an act of regaining independence from a corrupt union and of not being tied to a judicial system that confers rights on criminals who give no fig for anyone elses rights"

And anyway i think you are on about european court of human rights which was set up mainly by the uk after the war. Which nothing to do with the EU and we will be still under its control even if we leave the EU.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

. . . and of not being tied to a judicial system that confers rights on criminals who give no fig for anyone elses rights"

The UK is NOT leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, nor the court that upholds these rights.

I think the Conservative Party has toyed with that idea, but never pursued it.

It would send a terrible signal to the rest of the world.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A Kantar poll , reported in April showed support for remaining in the EU in member states as Italy 72% ,,, Ireland 91% ,,, Portugal 92% ,,, Czech Rep 66% ,,, Holland 91% ,,, Luxembourg 94% ,,, Every member state apart from the UK at 55% and Czech Rep 66% ,, was over 70% ,,, so , despite the predictions it doesn't appear that all the other countries are desperate to leave , it looks as though the domino effect may just be one double blank tumbling on its own "

Opinion polls mean nothing. They are a small sample of the population

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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield /derby cinemas

Opinion polls mean nothing. They are a small sample of the population"
. Totally agree with you ,, but I was just showing the results of a opinion poll to compare with previous messages on here which suggested the EU would collapse because one or two of their mates think so

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

Like a lot of things we won't appreciate it until it's gone, perhaps your friends should remember how the union came about in the first place.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Opinion polls mean nothing. They are a small sample of the population"

When it's a choice between the opinion of tens of thousands or the opinions of one, I know which is more indicative of the truth.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The hysteria about Brexit is unnecessary imo. Most German French and Spanish people I talk with all feel the EU has had its time and is unworkable. So it's possible the whole thing will collapse. Most of my European friends think because there are so many languages and culture differences it was never likely to last long. Interested to hear opinions on this.Agree 100% was one of my reasons for voting out.On holiday in Greece this year was talking to some Germans who admired us for wanting out and eould be the beginning of the end of the EU"

I understand that it was the vast majority of German society. This is very strange because I talked to several Germans and they said they were surprised by the result of the referendum because the UK is in the EU on special conditions.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

I think Germans obviously know how to stroke an English ego

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Unfortunately but you're right

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

"Presumably some of that is money the uk has already contributed to the Eu

When a vandal damages the neighbour's property, you'd expect the vandal to pay for the damage.

This is no different.

Deliberately crashing out of the EU, severing every legal link overnight and reinstating every barrier that people spent 50 years taking down, is an act of economic and social vandalism.

What tosh. It is an act of regaining independence from a corrupt union and of not being tied to a judicial system that confers rights on criminals who give no fig for anyone elses rights

Do you genuinely believe this?

In which case the big loser here is the British education system."

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Taking each day as it comes, keeping on track with the dangerous PM and conservatives is enough to focus on. This lot cause more than enough catastrophe

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Opinion polls mean nothing. They are a small sample of the population

When it's a choice between the opinion of tens of thousands or the opinions of one, I know which is more indicative of the truth.

Opinion polls by and large tend to be no more than 2,000 not tens of thousands. The truth is love it or hate it a binding referendum said leave and leave we must or democracy has gone

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Opinion polls mean nothing. They are a small sample of the population

When it's a choice between the opinion of tens of thousands or the opinions of one, I know which is more indicative of the truth.

Opinion polls by and large tend to be no more than 2,000 not tens of thousands. The truth is love it or hate it a binding referendum said leave and leave we must or democracy has gone"

*Advisory referendum.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

. . . and of not being tied to a judicial system that confers rights on criminals who give no fig for anyone elses rights

The UK is NOT leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, nor the court that upholds these rights.

I think the Conservative Party has toyed with that idea, but never pursued it.

It would send a terrible signal to the rest of the world.

Time to leave the court as well. Then we can deal with murderers, drug pushers and the like properly

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

. . . and of not being tied to a judicial system that confers rights on criminals who give no fig for anyone elses rights

The UK is NOT leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, nor the court that upholds these rights.

I think the Conservative Party has toyed with that idea, but never pursued it.

It would send a terrible signal to the rest of the world.

Time to leave the court as well. Then we can deal with murderers, drug pushers and the like properly"

I don't think bring in Judge Dredd is the answer.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

. . . and of not being tied to a judicial system that confers rights on criminals who give no fig for anyone elses rights

The UK is NOT leaving the European Convention on Human Rights, nor the court that upholds these rights.

I think the Conservative Party has toyed with that idea, but never pursued it.

It would send a terrible signal to the rest of the world.

Time to leave the court as well. Then we can deal with murderers, drug pushers and the like properly

I don't think bring in Judge Dredd is the answer. "

I feel like some people would be happier moving to Saudi Arabia or North Korea. The longing for extreme punishments is so weird.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Opinion polls mean nothing. They are a small sample of the population

When it's a choice between the opinion of tens of thousands or the opinions of one, I know which is more indicative of the truth.

Opinion polls by and large tend to be no more than 2,000 not tens of thousands. The truth is love it or hate it a binding referendum said leave and leave we must or democracy has gone"

It was an adcisory referendum. - think of it as information. The official campaign was for leave to be only under certain circumstances ie. To only leave with a deal. No other form of leaving was included and one type of leaving - without any deal, was explicitly excluded as an option that was being voted for.

People were told that the referendum did NOT include voting for a no deal departure. There is no democratic agreement for leaving without a deal.

Go back to 2016 and review referendum materials.

It's still the case that the sovereignty of parliament holds, to ensure that those elected representatives of the people must represent our best interests. You'd expect that. Parliament must represent us based on the position in 2019, where much more is now known and it's very different to 2016.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

Opinion polls mean nothing. They are a small sample of the population

When it's a choice between the opinion of tens of thousands or the opinions of one, I know which is more indicative of the truth.

Opinion polls by and large tend to be no more than 2,000 not tens of thousands. The truth is love it or hate it a binding referendum said leave and leave we must or democracy has gone

People were told that the referendum did NOT include voting for a no deal departure. There is no democratic agreement for leaving without a deal.

Go back to 2016 and review referendum materials.

Again, This is wrong

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No they wont collapse, far from it.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

It's another delusion, Shag.

The UK has been a brake on ever-closer union for 50 years.

The brake is about to be removed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's another delusion, Shag.

The UK has been a brake on ever-closer union for 50 years.

The brake is about to be removed.

"
That is right it is a delusion from the brexiters and yes, it is the british union that is close to a brake up.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Yes, but it is easier for some people to cling to the idea that Britain is a global superpower capable of inflicting lasting damage on the rest of the world, than face up to the reality that the only lasting damage they are inflicting on anyone is themselves.

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By *ardiffCoupleNJCouple
over a year ago

Pontypridd/Rhyfelin

"Contained in Dover? That's interesting because I live in Spain and there are many nationalities here that have voiced there opinions. So it seems the Dover security gate has been breached?

so you live in spain... so you took advantage of "freedom of movement" that is now going to be denied to us.....

irony at all?

And all those 'many nationalities' represent the feeling of the Spanish people?

...or just ex-pats who happen to be living in Spain?

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By *pitfiremk10 OP Man
over a year ago

Gloucester

"Contained in Dover? That's interesting because I live in Spain and there are many nationalities here that have voiced there opinions. So it seems the Dover security gate has been breached?

so you live in spain... so you took advantage of "freedom of movement" that is now going to be denied to us.....

irony at all?

And all those 'many nationalities' represent the feeling of the Spanish people?

...or just ex-pats who happen to be living in Spain?

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By *pitfiremk10 OP Man
over a year ago

Gloucester

"Contained in Dover? That's interesting because I live in Spain and there are many nationalities here that have voiced there opinions. So it seems the Dover security gate has been breached?

so you live in spain... so you took advantage of "freedom of movement" that is now going to be denied to us.....

irony at all?

And all those 'many nationalities' represent the feeling of the Spanish people?

...or just ex-pats who happen to be living in Spain?

Clearly I need to be specific.

German, French. Belgians, Spanish, Italian, Swiss and Swedish. Fyi most ex pat's Brits are against Brexit. Hope that clears it up for you. And in case your wondering we are all members of a multi cultural tennis club.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

The United Kingdom is a union of countries.

Monetary and political union since 1707.

The EU has monetary union - well, 19 countries do - but nothing like the political union that exists here.

Monetary union works in the UK because fiscal policy is also highly centralised, or unionised.

Not so in the EU, where national sovereignty is the obstacle to fiscal union.

That said, the Maastrict Treaty that created the Euro also created fiscal rules.

For all 28 states.

Deficits should be no greater than 3% of GDP.

Lots of countries breached those rules - not least Germany and the UK.

There was no disciplining, no punishment, just turning of a blind eye and a letter every 3 months setting what actions were being taken to fall back within the 3%.

Now apply the same model here.

Monetary supply from the centre, but four countries all running their own tax and spend policies.

England becomes the new Germany, on the hook every time Scotland or whoever can't pay their debts.

Understand this and you begin to understand where sovereignty sits in the union of the UK and where it sits in the union of the EU.

One is highly centralised and controlled, the other is not.

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By *apiomanMan
over a year ago

Shipley

"Never mind opinions, look at the surveys.

Satisfaction ratings with the EU are 60% and beyond.

This anti-EU disease the Brexiteers hope will infect the rest of Europe has been contained at Dover.

And after seeing how destabilised the UK has become by it all, I doubt anyone is in a rush to head down the same rabbit hole as the British.

Even Le Pen's National Front in France are getting less enthusiastic about a Frexit than before.

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By *apiomanMan
over a year ago

Shipley

"Presumably some of that is money the uk has already contributed to the Eu

When a vandal damages the neighbour's property, you'd expect the vandal to pay for the damage.

This is no different.

Deliberately crashing out of the EU, severing every legal link overnight and reinstating every barrier that people spent 50 years taking down, is an act of economic and social vandalism.

I don't agree.

Yes there will be economic damage all round by a no deal but it's the UK's sovereign right to choose how and when we leave. "

How about my right to be told that crashing out without a deal and the consequences of that when we came to vote in the referendum? Being told lies doesn't add to my sovereignty!

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