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"It concerns me that any kind of Brexit is going to result in the return of troubles on the island of Ireland. The Good Friday Agreement, Single Market and Customs Union are all mutually compatible and supporting. Those of a Nationalist persuasion in the north are currently able to be as Irish as they want to be whilst the Unionists still can feel British. The U.K. Parliament exerting it’s will over Northern Ireland and enforcing a change that the province did not even vote for is going to cause a disruption to the feeling of status quo that currently exists. The border situation to a degree is an irrelevance in the scenario compared to the underlying concept of Britain enforcing change that many do not want. The only way to prevent a Nationalist push back would be for Johnson to throw the DUP under the bus and keep N Ireland aligned to the EU, but in doing so, he risks a Unionist pushback. That said, there is some argument that most Unionists would prefer to stay aligned to the CU and SM." If we no deal Brexit and borders go up in NI and it brings trouble back to NI then it's only what leavers wanted and voted for  | |||
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"It concerns me that any kind of Brexit is going to result in the return of troubles on the island of Ireland. The Good Friday Agreement, Single Market and Customs Union are all mutually compatible and supporting. Those of a Nationalist persuasion in the north are currently able to be as Irish as they want to be whilst the Unionists still can feel British. The U.K. Parliament exerting it’s will over Northern Ireland and enforcing a change that the province did not even vote for is going to cause a disruption to the feeling of status quo that currently exists. The border situation to a degree is an irrelevance in the scenario compared to the underlying concept of Britain enforcing change that many do not want. The only way to prevent a Nationalist push back would be for Johnson to throw the DUP under the bus and keep N Ireland aligned to the EU, but in doing so, he risks a Unionist pushback. That said, there is some argument that most Unionists would prefer to stay aligned to the CU and SM. If we no deal Brexit and borders go up in NI and it brings trouble back to NI then it's only what leavers wanted and voted for "So who is putting a boarder up? | |||
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"who will be putting up this border as all ive heard is the republic say they wont and the u.k have said they wont either so that only leaves brussles" If the UK bring about a scenario where a wall has to be built, then it is their fault. So Brussles building one = UK at fault. The UK has been given clear warning about this. It is the USA who decides, it is the USA who have spelled out this scenario in clear and plain language. The same scenario would apply to Ireland if they left the eu and stepped back and said "we just wont build a border", the UK would say "Well one is needed to comply with our other trade agreements and you caused the issue to arise". The USA would also take this stance. Just imagine what the DUP would be screaming. Ireland would be hit with trade sanctions, American companies would be told to leave Ireland. Ireland would have all future claims on the north nullified. Anyone using any violence against the british goverment could only ever be a terrorist. And likely they would lose the right to vote to rejoin Ireland in the future. | |||
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"3+ years later and the Brexiteers still do not understand the consequences of their actions, nor do they have any plan to mitigate them. Kinda sums up the whole shambles. " hope you not lumping me in with brexiters lol. ive been waiting 20 odd years for politics and politicians to show how useless they all are.must admit i never though they would fuck up this royaly though | |||
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"Trump can say whatever he likes. Any foreign agreement needs Congressional approval. And the noises from Congress are clear - screw up the Irish border and you can forget about getting any agreement with us. " wouldnt count ya chickens to soon theres an election coming soon in the u.s and the dems seem to be even more fucked than last time.you must admit though if politics needs to change what better chance of it changing with all this bollox going on | |||
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"So as far as you are concerned, a trade deal with the US takes priority over keeping the peace in Ireland? " i will try again who is putting a boarder up? | |||
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"So brexit means EU citizens can cross freely into the UK iat the NI border but can’t at Dover. Sounds simple. "yeah why not the Irish have already been told by the government they have free access.How many people are going to go to ireland to get into northern ireland? | |||
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" i will try again who is putting a boarder up?" Oh dear. The border has been there since 1922, or whenever. It was militarised by the British. It was de-militarised by the British. Like every border in the EU, people, goods, services and capital can cross over without impediment. The English and the Welsh say they do not want that any more. They want to introduce controls - they just haven't a fucking clue how to do it. | |||
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" i will try again who is putting a boarder up? Oh dear. The border has been there since 1922, or whenever. It was militarised by the British. It was de-militarised by the British. Like every border in the EU, people, goods, services and capital can cross over without impediment. The English and the Welsh say they do not want that any more. They want to introduce controls - they just haven't a fucking clue how to do it. " try answering a question just for once if the uk say there will be no boarder who is putting it up? | |||
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"You realise how irresponsible your stance looks? The UK Government, Ireland and the EU have reached an agreement to keep the status quo on the border. The UK Government has a majority in parliament. Unfortunately, the Brextremists among the governing party are putting purity before peace and refuse to endorse it. Anyway you look at it, a hard Brexit means a hard border. And there is only one group who will be held responsible - the ideological fanatics of Brexit. " so what are you saying the eu will put a boarder up but blame the uk? | |||
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" who is putting it up?" The DUP and the ERG. | |||
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" who is putting it up? The DUP and the ERG. " where did you get that from as seems total bollox neither have the power to do that.Its either the uk,eu or irish government who can and the uk has stated that it wont so it must be one of the others. | |||
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"Of course they have the power. They are feckin' legislators. And the refuse to use it to keep the status quo. Who is responsible? DUP and ERG. " you live in dreamland of course they cant.seems to me you are getting more irrational the closer the deadline gets. | |||
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"The Irish government will have to do it. They'll have no choice, since they'll have the same obligations to EU membership and trade arrangements as any other EU member bordering a non-EU country. They'll hate it - because it flies in the face of the GFA - but they'll do it; and they'll blame the UK government and the DUP. The resentment caused might well fuel the desire for a United Ireland; but that'll take time." yes i know they will but sara could not bring herself to say it.  | |||
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"So brexit means EU citizens can cross freely into the UK iat the NI border but can’t at Dover. Sounds simple. "EU ciizens will be able to cross any UK border just as they do now, the difference is they will only be able to stay for the time the UK decides they can, just like any other national coming here and just like any UK citizen going to the EU, yes they may have to show a passport to get in but we do now so no change and as Ireland isnt part of schengen all EU citizens need to show ID/passport when entering Ireland from anywhere in the EU, if they want to stay longer than allowed it wont matter how they enter the UK | |||
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" i will try again who is putting a boarder up? Oh dear. The border has been there since 1922, or whenever. It was militarised by the British. It was de-militarised by the British. Like every border in the EU, people, goods, services and capital can cross over without impediment. The English and the Welsh say they do not want that any more. They want to introduce controls - they just haven't a fucking clue how to do it. try answering a question just for once if the uk say there will be no boarder who is putting it up?" As with many Brexit supporters you are hanging on to one issue and think that this single issue defines the problem. It doesn’t. The island of Ireland issue is nuanced, complicated and has multiple dimensions. First up, you seem fixated on who will put the border in place - the answer to that is three fold. First who will be most damaged by uncontrolled cross trade? In other words as regulatory alignment diverges then the most damaged party will make moves to mitigate the damage. Second, WTO rules require a hard border anyway between two different customs authorities and so much as the UK and the EU might say in public that they will not put a border in place - they will have to anyway. Third, an open border is completely at odds with the concept of Brexit and “controlling our borders.” It simply will not work legally and all statements made by this Govt and its cheerleaders are simple and baseless rhetoric that completely ignore the legal status that the UK is aiming to find itself in shortly. Once real life issues arises and the complications lay themselves out in the road - the rhetoric will have to change to deal with the law. Having said all of that - you are entirely missing the point and hard border, soft border, seamless border - it doesn’t really matter. It is the concept that has been all but hidden from view for a while that the British Parliament will do what it wants with Northern Ireland and a large community in Northern Ireland simply will not accept that kind of power from Westminster being flaunted again. It is a conceptual issue that is being hidden from view by arguments about a border. The border is irrelevant. Westminster ordering the whole of Northern Ireland to obey a political directive that was defeated in the referendum will turn out very, very bad. | |||
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" Westminster ordering the whole of Northern Ireland to obey a political directive that was defeated in the referendum will turn out very, very bad." Sadly true. | |||
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" The resentment caused might well fuel the desire for a United Ireland; but that'll take time.yes i know they will but sara could not bring herself to say it. "Is it a cause for some perverse sort of pride that Brexit will erect barriers across the island of Ireland? | |||
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"So brexit means EU citizens can cross freely into the UK iat the NI border but can’t at Dover. Sounds simple. "The plan has been for a post departure completely open border between the EU and the UK, over the ROI and Northern Ireland border. Travel from NI to the UK mainland is also possible, without requiring passports | |||
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" who is putting it up? The DUP and the ERG. where did you get that from as seems total bollox neither have the power to do that.Its either the uk,eu or irish government who can and the uk has stated that it wont so it must be one of the others." . An amazing situation has arisen whereby , at the time of the referendum , one of the claims of the leave campaign was that the UK wanted to control our borders , 17,410,742 people voted leave and therefore we can assume 17,410,742 people want to control our borders ,, then , following the result the leaders of the leave campaign appeared to realise that our only land border with the EU was on the island of Ireland ,, and so decided we want to control our borders but we don't want to contoll our border at the only place we have a land border with the EU , and it appears that the 17,410,742 are also saying that they now do not want to contoll our land border with the EU , ,,, something that they actually voted for ,,,,, if you were one of the 17,410,742 do you now realise why you are sometimes accused of not really being aware of what you actually voted for ?? | |||
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"It concerns me that any kind of Brexit is going to result in the return of troubles on the island of Ireland. The Good Friday Agreement, Single Market and Customs Union are all mutually compatible and supporting. Those of a Nationalist persuasion in the north are currently able to be as Irish as they want to be whilst the Unionists still can feel British. The U.K. Parliament exerting it’s will over Northern Ireland and enforcing a change that the province did not even vote for is going to cause a disruption to the feeling of status quo that currently exists. The border situation to a degree is an irrelevance in the scenario compared to the underlying concept of Britain enforcing change that many do not want. The only way to prevent a Nationalist push back would be for Johnson to throw the DUP under the bus and keep N Ireland aligned to the EU, but in doing so, he risks a Unionist pushback. That said, there is some argument that most Unionists would prefer to stay aligned to the CU and SM. If we no deal Brexit and borders go up in NI and it brings trouble back to NI then it's only what leavers wanted and voted for
So who is putting a boarder up?"Don't know, don't care but as I said "if" borders go up, be it anyone, it really doesn't matter does it  | |||
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" who is putting it up? The DUP and the ERG. where did you get that from as seems total bollox neither have the power to do that.Its either the uk,eu or irish government who can and the uk has stated that it wont so it must be one of the others.. An amazing situation has arisen whereby , at the time of the referendum , one of the claims of the leave campaign was that the UK wanted to control our borders , 17,410,742 people voted leave and therefore we can assume 17,410,742 people want to control our borders ,, then , following the result the leaders of the leave campaign appeared to realise that our only land border with the EU was on the island of Ireland ,, and so decided we want to control our borders but we don't want to contoll our border at the only place we have a land border with the EU , and it appears that the 17,410,742 are also saying that they now do not want to contoll our land border with the EU , ,,, something that they actually voted for ,,,,, if you were one of the 17,410,742 do you now realise why you are sometimes accused of not really being aware of what you actually voted for ??" It's not just the controlling of borders argument from leavers that they don't understand though, there's quite a lot of contradiction in many areas of their leave arguments | |||
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"So brexit means EU citizens can cross freely into the UK iat the NI border but can’t at Dover. Sounds simple.
The plan has been for a post departure completely open border between the EU and the UK, over the ROI and Northern Ireland border. Travel from NI to the UK mainland is also possible, without requiring passports "Would a RoI farmer exporting to NI and Liverpool get the same experience in both places under a no deal border? Presumably there will be no checks at either.... And what about a French farmer... Can they get their cheese in easier via RoI than Dover? And Argentina beef... Can a RoI wholesaler sell it to Belfast easier than the farmer themselves? | |||
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"Project Chaos "Whatever happened to Boris’s chat about the UK being locked into a permanent undemocratic arrangement with the EU if the backstop were imposed? Perhaps he plans to sell off NI to Trump to become the USA’s 52nd state? That would work wouldn't it? | |||
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"try answering a question just for once if the uk say there will be no boarder who is putting it up?" The UK. The agreement sees the party who "causes" a hard border to be put up, as the party who "puts up" the border. I understand why that may confuse you, as you dont even know what the GFA is, and all discussions about it are defined by the document itself, and not your lay understanding of words out of context. | |||
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"where did you get that from as seems total bollox neither have the power to do that.Its either the uk,eu or irish government who can and the uk has stated that it wont so it must be one of the others.. An amazing situation has arisen whereby , at the time of the referendum , one of the claims of the leave campaign was that the UK wanted to control our borders , 17,410,742 people voted leave and therefore we can assume 17,410,742 people want to control our borders ,, then , following the result the leaders of the leave campaign appeared to realise that our only land border with the EU was on the island of Ireland ,, and so decided we want to control our borders but we don't want to contoll our border at the only place we have a land border with the EU , and it appears that the 17,410,742 are also saying that they now do not want to contoll our land border with the EU , ,,, something that they actually voted for ,,,,, if you were one of the 17,410,742 do you now realise why you are sometimes accused of not really being aware of what you actually voted for ??" The UK did not vote to control its borders, it voted to exit the EU. Anyone who told you that means protecting the borders lied to you. You should take that up with them, as it was brought up before the election that the GFA would not allow a border with Ireland, and everyone knew it. If everyone knew about the GFA then they voted to leave the EU while respecting the GFA and not control the border in Ireland. But that is kind of bullshit, cause the people who voted leave never even heard of the GFA or the DUP. When Thresea may did a deal with the DUP, "who are the DUP" was the most googled thing in the UK. People voted to leave the EU over a bunch of false promises of what being out of the EU might be like, border control, billions for the nhs, blah blah blah. Not one of these things was voted for. The UK could honour the leave vote by exiting the EU and agreeing to leave all trade and laws aligned with the EU forever. Technically you voted for that just as much as you did border control, cause no one even had a brexit plan, so no one can say they voted for a,b,c.. they voted for vague promises of what could maybe, possibly happen. Despite experts telling them most of them vague promises could never happen. | |||
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"Ye all seem like experts on Irish boarders , just wondering do any of ye feel embarrassed that there is a boarder on the Island of Ireland ???" Not me im just interested are the people of Ireland all going to go back to the old days because of brexit? seems stupid to me if they did love your pics by the way.  | |||
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"Ye all seem like experts on Irish boarders , just wondering do any of ye feel embarrassed that there is a boarder on the Island of Ireland ???" None of us were alive when the border on the island of Ireland was created. | |||
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"Ye all seem like experts on Irish boarders , just wondering do any of ye feel embarrassed that there is a boarder on the Island of Ireland ???Not me im just interested are the people of Ireland all going to go back to the old days because of brexit? seems stupid to me if they did love your pics by the way. "Why do you think that it feels stupid to you? Have you studied the history of Ireland? Are you aware of the grievances that many of the Republican population have against Westminster and why? Just imagine for a second that an international peace treaty has given you the ability to feel Irish, despite already living in what you perceive to be a part of Ireland that is occupied by a foreign country. It is an OK compromise and one that can be lived with. Suddenly though, the occupying country starts flexing its muscles again and starts ordering you around and making changes that you don’t want and never voted for. It feels like the last 20 years has just been a pause in the aggressive Colonial actions of the occupying force and now they are starting all over again. | |||
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"Ye all seem like experts on Irish boarders , just wondering do any of ye feel embarrassed that there is a boarder on the Island of Ireland ???Not me im just interested are the people of Ireland all going to go back to the old days because of brexit? seems stupid to me if they did love your pics by the way.
Why do you think that it feels stupid to you?
Have you studied the history of Ireland? Are you aware of the grievances that many of the Republican population have against Westminster and why?
Just imagine for a second that an international peace treaty has given you the ability to feel Irish, despite already living in what you perceive to be a part of Ireland that is occupied by a foreign country. It is an OK compromise and one that can be lived with. Suddenly though, the occupying country starts flexing its muscles again and starts ordering you around and making changes that you don’t want and never voted for. It feels like the last 20 years has just been a pause in the aggressive Colonial actions of the occupying force and now they are starting all over again. "well if you cant see violence as stupid i feel sorry for you. | |||
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"Ye all seem like experts on Irish boarders , just wondering do any of ye feel embarrassed that there is a boarder on the Island of Ireland ???Not me im just interested are the people of Ireland all going to go back to the old days because of brexit? seems stupid to me if they did love your pics by the way.
Why do you think that it feels stupid to you?
Have you studied the history of Ireland? Are you aware of the grievances that many of the Republican population have against Westminster and why?
Just imagine for a second that an international peace treaty has given you the ability to feel Irish, despite already living in what you perceive to be a part of Ireland that is occupied by a foreign country. It is an OK compromise and one that can be lived with. Suddenly though, the occupying country starts flexing its muscles again and starts ordering you around and making changes that you don’t want and never voted for. It feels like the last 20 years has just been a pause in the aggressive Colonial actions of the occupying force and now they are starting all over again. well if you cant see violence as stupid i feel sorry for you."Nice attempt at deflection but the question remains. What do you do to resist an occupying force that ignores your democratic voice? If democracy fails to make the occupier listen - what other alternatives are there to make yourself heard? The Good Friday Agreement has been 20 years of illusionary compromise that has worked for all but the most extreme of extremists. Britain ignoring the will of N Ireland whilst loudly proclaiming that Westminster must abide by the will of the people (other people) will result in a return of resistance against the (perceived) occupiers. The very fact that you can’t see the logic behind the motivation to resist is a blatant indication of your own sense of entitlement. You willingly can’t or won’t see the Republican point of view. That said, you appear to be in good company and when violence does return as a form of resistance - you and others will shrug your shoulders in mock horror as if the idiots should just obey the law like all the rest of the Good British citizens. You just don’t get it - and probably never will. | |||
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"The ‘border’ has always been what is known as an open border. Yes there has been customs check points ( not on every road), and military checkpoints ( again not on every road and designed to identify and deter paramilitary movements and operations ). But there has never been a proper border as most people understand the term border ( such as the USA Mexico border). There are approximately 270 roads that cross the Northern Irish / Roi border and it is not realistic on any level to put in place 270 hard border checkpoints. Like I, anyone who has studied, crossed , worked on the border knows that a hard border can never happen. The common travel area will continue and will allow free movement of people. As for goods , there can be trusted trader schemes , ANPR on the major trade routes, ad hoc customs checks away from border areas and an increase in surveillance activities. As at today there are separate tax rates , separate VAT rates, separate fuel duties and rates, separate corporation tax rates and there are are tried and trusted electronic measures to allow this. As I write this , with the UK as part of the EU there is daily smuggling of fuel and livestock and seasonal fireworks smuggling. This will continue post Brexit probably at a slightly higher level but so what . There always has been and always will be smuggling. It’s taught in schools in the border areas lol. A proper Hard Border?. Impossible ." If you read the thread from the beginning you will note that the border - hard, soft or otherwise is somewhat irrelevant compared to the imposition of the will of Westminster on a population that voted for the exact opposite of what Westminster is going to do. | |||
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" If you read the thread from the beginning you will note that the border - hard, soft or otherwise is somewhat irrelevant compared to the imposition of the will of Westminster on a population that voted for the exact opposite of what Westminster is going to do." | |||
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"Smuggling is smuggling. This is about having control over legitimate imports / exports. And hard border isn't a helpful term as it invokes walls and barriers. It's about a controlled border. " Amazon and other large online retail companies conduct billions of sales worldwide. There is a thing called computers and computer software and barcodes that allow items to be bought posted and delivered worldwide across multiple borders, all of which have the relevant tariffs and taxes applied and distributed to relevant government authorities . I have personally worked in designing and operating ANPR systems and worked alongside customs organisations and does anyone seriously believe that technology does not exist that can cope with what is required . ?. Dear oh dear. | |||
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"The challenges as I understand it are A) where the tech exists, getting all companies ready and using it by brexit day is nigh on impossible B) any insurance policy needs to be workable today. Otherwise what happens if it can't be rolled out in two years C) amazon packages may still get checked on the way into the UK if they come from outside of the eu. Eg friction. D) amazon don't tend to deal as much with agriculture and pharma No one is sayung some tech doesn't exist today. Or that the tech isn't possible. We just don't have a full solution today which covers tarriffs and customs which allows frictionless trade. And by definition, any insurance policy needs to be workable today. Not rely on stuff being developed in the future. " Ag has had traceability for years, its years ahead of the game, of course it doesn't stop the odd cheat IE horsegate but nothing will stop criminals | |||
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"Tech? What tech? If you want to drive in the EU from October 1, you need to buy a piece of cardboard at the Post Office. The clerk gets out a Pritt stick and glues your picture to it. Then he scribbles your personal info with a biro pen. I gave him or her £5.50 and I get a bit of cardboard to allow me across a border. Now, if we cannot even do that electronically, what hope is there of running a whole border electronically? " That's government, business can and does trace everything, most companies that deliver and collect stuff from me can tell me exactly where the lorry is at any point in time, every part or product is identifiable, the only bit about the border which will require any checks are people | |||
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"That's government, business can and does trace everything, most companies that deliver and collect stuff from me can tell me exactly where the lorry is at any point in time, every part or product is identifiable, the only bit about the border which will require any checks are people" This idea was stopped early on by the British Government. They see it as a mid-sea border between the UK and Northern Ireland. The EU was perfectly ok with getting info on everything going into the north from the UK and giving a list of everything going into ireland to the UK. If the UK could promise that, then there would be no backstop, the backstop was because the UK didn't want that but wanted to promise that the situation would be sorted, and could they do the trade deal first. The EU agreed to this, but then the UK pulled back on the promise. Now the UK wants to sign a trade deal with the EU in stone, without any promise to solve the border issue, or even any single proposal on how it will work put forward. | |||
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"Ok, so who check people crossing the border, the border force. Who protects them? The police. Who protects the police, the army back on the border. Is that what people want? No one in the border area needs or wants that. The border crossing I use most was blown to pieces and 5 british soldiers and a civilian lost their lives. That is the reality of border checks I'm afraid. No one wants that. " We dont need to check people crossing the border do we? EU citizens will still be able to enter the UK anywhere just as they do now EXCEPT they will only be able to stay for 90 days without applying for a visa, they wont be able to work etc without permission, illegal immigrants have to get to Ireland first before they can cross the border into the UK and as Ireland arent in Schengen every one needs to show a passport to get in, I sure they wont be waving folk by incase they stay in the south, it really is a non issue, apart of course to those using it as an excuse to stop brexit | |||
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"Ok, so who check people crossing the border, the border force. Who protects them? The police. Who protects the police, the army back on the border. Is that what people want? No one in the border area needs or wants that. The border crossing I use most was blown to pieces and 5 british soldiers and a civilian lost their lives. That is the reality of border checks I'm afraid. No one wants that. We dont need to check people crossing the border do we? EU citizens will still be able to enter the UK anywhere just as they do now EXCEPT they will only be able to stay for 90 days without applying for a visa, they wont be able to work etc without permission, illegal immigrants have to get to Ireland first before they can cross the border into the UK and as Ireland arent in Schengen every one needs to show a passport to get in, I sure they wont be waving folk by incase they stay in the south, it really is a non issue, apart of course to those using it as an excuse to stop brexit" Hopefully Brexit might get stopped and we can keep freedom of movement. | |||
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" We dont need to check people crossing the border do we? EU citizens will still be able to enter the UK anywhere just as they do now EXCEPT they will only be able to stay for 90 days without applying for a visa, they wont be able to work etc without permission, illegal immigrants have to get to Ireland first before they can cross the border into the UK and as Ireland arent in Schengen every one needs to show a passport to get in, I sure they wont be waving folk by incase they stay in the south, it really is a non issue, apart of course to those using it as an excuse to stop brexit" Why would illegal immigrants go to Ireland first, surely the English channel is a shorter distance 
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"We dont need to check people crossing the border do we? EU citizens will still be able to enter the UK anywhere just as they do now" And right now the UK stops them and checks what products they are bringing into the UK, for example you can be stopped coming off the boat from France, and have Wine taken off you. These checks will have to be done across the border of Ireland as the UK will be WTO country. It's not that Irish people will be stopped from entering the North, its that they will have to be stopped and searched before being let in. Like you say, as it happens in the UK already. The difference is, the UK and Ireland have an agreement that people crossing the border will never be stopped and searched ever again, as in there can be no hard border. So your example of how the UK currently works with France, is not how Ireland and the North currently work. Changing to how it works with France would be breaking the GFA. | |||
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"We dont need to check people crossing the border do we? EU citizens will still be able to enter the UK anywhere just as they do now And right now the UK stops them and checks what products they are bringing into the UK, for example you can be stopped coming off the boat from France, and have Wine taken off you. These checks will have to be done across the border of Ireland as the UK will be WTO country. It's not that Irish people will be stopped from entering the North, its that they will have to be stopped and searched before being let in. Like you say, as it happens in the UK already. The difference is, the UK and Ireland have an agreement that people crossing the border will never be stopped and searched ever again, as in there can be no hard border. So your example of how the UK currently works with France, is not how Ireland and the North currently work. Changing to how it works with France would be breaking the GFA." WE have different vat levels etc to Ireland now and a blind eye is turned to that, and I guess ireland has also different excise duty rates which is why you cant bring in unimited amounts of wine or fags from france without paying duty on it, we ignore it now so no reason we cant ignore it after, people smuggling a bit of this or that is pence missed in reality and companies can be dissuaded by level of fines for being caught, which these days isnt hard with the avaliable tech | |||
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they must be very proud. | |||
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"Love the way Brexit is being held to ransome by a few irishmen. Honestly couldn't make it up. Basically if we make organized crime difficult across the Irish boarder, people will die. That's progress. they must be very proud. "Brexit is being held up by rhyss mogg & his cronies to make money. No other reason Take the deal on offer & leave . | |||
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"Love the way Brexit is being held to ransome by a few irishmen. Honestly couldn't make it up. Basically if we make organized crime difficult across the Irish boarder, people will die. That's progress. they must be very proud.
Brexit is being held up by rhyss mogg & his cronies to make money. No other reason
Take the deal on offer & leave .
"Parliament keep refusing to take the deal... | |||
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"Love the way Brexit is being held to ransome by a few irishmen. Honestly couldn't make it up. Basically if we make organized crime difficult across the Irish boarder, people will die. That's progress. they must be very proud. "With comments like this it shows how right Ireland is to stand behind the Back Stop The Back Stop that the Uk signed up to just like they did with the Good Friday / Belfast agreement They lost by 21 votes tonight if they stood up to the DUP and there 7 votes who are backward thinking and based on sectarianism and put the checks down the Irish sea you would of had brexit months ago | |||
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"Love the way Brexit is being held to ransome by a few irishmen. Honestly couldn't make it up. Basically if we make organized crime difficult across the Irish boarder, people will die. That's progress. they must be very proud. "And another issue that you either can’t or won’t see. The GFA allowed people to feel as Irish or as British as they wanted to. The GFA, Single Market and Customs Union are all mutually compatible and mutually supporting. Most people in N Ireland understand this, even if the Politicians in Westminster don’t. When asked in 2016 if they wanted to maintain the status quo, a majority in N Ireland voted to stay the same. A big portion of these people were Republicans albeit a significant number of Unionists agreed to. The problem now is that Westminster is about to remind the Republicans that the last 20 years has been an illusion to them and despite voting to remain the same, Westminster is going to remind them quite forcefully who is actually in charge. As a gentle reminder, Republicans in the north have never recognised British sovereignty and never accepted it. This is the heart of the matter. To think that driving a horse and cart through the GFA will not have consequences amongst the Republican elements is myopic - to say the least. | |||
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"Love the way Brexit is being held to ransome by a few irishmen. Honestly couldn't make it up. Basically if we make organized crime difficult across the Irish boarder, people will die. That's progress. they must be very proud.
Brexit is being held up by rhyss mogg & his cronies to make money. No other reason
Take the deal on offer & leave .
Parliament keep refusing to take the deal..."No parliament refused to have a deal that loaded Certain sides with upside benefits . D.U.P & there billion quid , jacob hes smug & his cronies. Also what has been said above regards the G.F.A | |||
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"Love the way Brexit is being held to ransome by a few irishmen. Honestly couldn't make it up. Basically if we make organized crime difficult across the Irish boarder, people will die. That's progress. they must be very proud.
Brexit is being held up by rhyss mogg & his cronies to make money. No other reason
Take the deal on offer & leave .
Parliament keep refusing to take the deal...
No parliament refused to have a deal that loaded
Certain sides with upside benefits .
D.U.P & there billion quid , jacob hes smug & his cronies.
Also what has been said above regards the G.F.A "We have been offered 1 deal with the EU, and parliament voted against taking the deal. | |||
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"Love the way Brexit is being held to ransome by a few irishmen. Honestly couldn't make it up. Basically if we make organized crime difficult across the Irish boarder, people will die. That's progress. they must be very proud.
Brexit is being held up by rhyss mogg & his cronies to make money. No other reason
Take the deal on offer & leave .
Parliament keep refusing to take the deal...
No parliament refused to have a deal that loaded
Certain sides with upside benefits .
D.U.P & there billion quid , jacob hes smug & his cronies.
Also what has been said above regards the G.F.A
We have been offered 1 deal with the EU, and parliament voted against taking the deal. "As i said that deal was loaded on 1 side . And Was not practical | |||
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"Love the way Brexit is being held to ransome by a few irishmen. Honestly couldn't make it up. Basically if we make organized crime difficult across the Irish boarder, people will die. That's progress. they must be very proud.
With comments like this it shows how right Ireland is to stand behind the Back Stop
The Back Stop that the Uk signed up to just like they did with the Good Friday / Belfast agreement
They lost by 21 votes tonight if they stood up to the DUP and there 7 votes who are backward thinking and based on sectarianism and put the checks down the Irish sea you would of had brexit months ago "Sounds very plausible to me, drop the DUP (the majority is lost anyway), go for a separate soft brexit for NI, put up a sea border and there you have an alternative to the backstop. | |||
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"Love the way Brexit is being held to ransome by a few irishmen. Honestly couldn't make it up. Basically if we make organized crime difficult across the Irish boarder, people will die. That's progress. they must be very proud. "It's America standing in the way. Ireland and Irish people have no say in the matter. They are the other signatory of the agreement but America is the guarantor. This means the UK told Ireland "We will never interfere with people crossing the border again, if we do, America can punish us". Ireland told the UK "We give up our claim to the north, if we ever claim it again, America can punish us". No one is saying that if organised crime is made difficult over the border people will die. They are saying that if the UK breaks its promise then the Good friday agreementis broken. Which means Ireland re-instates its claim on the north, and the USA and the EU move to recognise it as Irish land occupied by the UK. But maybe propose how you can stop organised crime across the border first, as I dont think any such proposal has been put forward by Boris. How will it work? If you cant say, can you promise that you will say soon? | |||
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"Love the way Brexit is being held to ransome by a few irishmen. Honestly couldn't make it up. Basically if we make organized crime difficult across the Irish boarder, people will die. That's progress. they must be very proud.
With comments like this it shows how right Ireland is to stand behind the Back Stop
The Back Stop that the Uk signed up to just like they did with the Good Friday / Belfast agreement
They lost by 21 votes tonight if they stood up to the DUP and there 7 votes who are backward thinking and based on sectarianism and put the checks down the Irish sea you would of had brexit months ago
Sounds very plausible to me, drop the DUP (the majority is lost anyway), go for a separate soft brexit for NI, put up a sea border and there you have an alternative to the backstop. " | |||
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"Love the way Brexit is being held to ransome by a few irishmen. Honestly couldn't make it up. Basically if we make organized crime difficult across the Irish boarder, people will die. That's progress. they must be very proud.
Brexit is being held up by rhyss mogg & his cronies to make money. No other reason
Take the deal on offer & leave .
"Hahaha!! Just laughed out loud ... held up by Rees-Mogg??! More like Corbyn and Berscow - undemocratic hypocrites. Lucky Fab forum doesn't represent the real public's feeling. As for worrying about Ireland's unrest- must moderate people are sick to death of having their vote ignored and there will be unrest in Britain... maybe you should worry about that. | |||
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"Love the way Brexit is being held to ransome by a few irishmen. Honestly couldn't make it up. Basically if we make organized crime difficult across the Irish boarder, people will die. That's progress. they must be very proud.
Brexit is being held up by rhyss mogg & his cronies to make money. No other reason
Take the deal on offer & leave .
Hahaha!! Just laughed out loud ... held up by Rees-Mogg??! More like Corbyn and Berscow - undemocratic hypocrites.
Lucky Fab forum doesn't represent the real public's feeling.
As for worrying about Ireland's unrest- must moderate people are sick to death of having their vote ignored and there will be unrest in Britain... maybe you should worry about that.
"So much rage. I don't think a bunch of right wingers rioting will do anywhere near the amount of carnage caused by even the least damaging version of brexit. | |||
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"The best solution for the Brexit issue that the Irish have at their disposal would be an Irexit. They have fought for hundreds of years for freedom and independence but how can being ruled from Brussels be called freedom ? When it was put to the vote in 2008 the Irish voted not to ratify the Lisbon treaty but the elites in power in Dublin wouldn’t accept the people’s vote and had a rerun . Even in the establishment sponsored rerun following an Irish version of ‘project fear’ but this time on steroids, less that 50% of the electorate voted to ratify the treaty (67% of a 59% turnout) So Ireland stayed in the EU and look what the EU has forced upon the poorest people of Ireland when their Banks collapsed in 2008 .They forced Ireland to borrow billions in bailout money in order to be able to save the German and French creditors from taking a haircut . The wonderful EU condemned the poorest people in Ireland to austerity for generations to come." Making stuff up to suit an argument is pretty weird. 1) They are not “ruled” by Brussels in the same way that we are not. It is incredible that you can even think such a thing after all this time and so much information that is now in the public domain. 2) The Lisbon treaty was rejected by the Irish first time round and the Irish said that changes were made in order to make it more palatable. Changes were made and a modified treaty was presented on the second occasion. EU approval is at an all time high in Ireland and in case you didn’t notice, Northern Ireland also preferred to stay in the EU. 3) Your tactic of making up shit in order to propose a destructive agenda on to an independent country is the very epitome of colonialism. Why not let the people on the island of Ireland say what they want? | |||
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"The best solution for the Brexit issue that the Irish have at their disposal would be an Irexit. They have fought for hundreds of years for freedom and independence but how can being ruled from Brussels be called freedom ? When it was put to the vote in 2008 the Irish voted not to ratify the Lisbon treaty but the elites in power in Dublin wouldn’t accept the people’s vote and had a rerun . Even in the establishment sponsored rerun following an Irish version of ‘project fear’ but this time on steroids, less that 50% of the electorate voted to ratify the treaty (67% of a 59% turnout) So Ireland stayed in the EU and look what the EU has forced upon the poorest people of Ireland when their Banks collapsed in 2008 .They forced Ireland to borrow billions in bailout money in order to be able to save the German and French creditors from taking a haircut . The wonderful EU condemned the poorest people in Ireland to austerity for generations to come." I got to this bit before I stopped reading... " They have fought for hundreds of years for freedom and independence but how can being ruled from Brussels be called freedom ? " Anyone saying as a member state of the European Union that you are ruled by them when YOU are THEM just shows how conditioned and brainwashed they are and don't seem to have a bloody clue as to what the EU are and how it works. | |||
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"The best solution for the Brexit issue that the Irish have at their disposal would be an Irexit. They have fought for hundreds of years for freedom and independence but how can being ruled from Brussels be called freedom ? When it was put to the vote in 2008 the Irish voted not to ratify the Lisbon treaty but the elites in power in Dublin wouldn’t accept the people’s vote and had a rerun . Even in the establishment sponsored rerun following an Irish version of ‘project fear’ but this time on steroids, less that 50% of the electorate voted to ratify the treaty (67% of a 59% turnout) So Ireland stayed in the EU and look what the EU has forced upon the poorest people of Ireland when their Banks collapsed in 2008 .They forced Ireland to borrow billions in bailout money in order to be able to save the German and French creditors from taking a haircut . The wonderful EU condemned the poorest people in Ireland to austerity for generations to come. Making stuff up to suit an argument is pretty weird. 1) They are not “ruled” by Brussels in the same way that we are not. It is incredible that you can even think such a thing after all this time and so much information that is now in the public domain. 2) The Lisbon treaty was rejected by the Irish first time round and the Irish said that changes were made in order to make it more palatable. Changes were made and a modified treaty was presented on the second occasion. EU approval is at an all time high in Ireland and in case you didn’t notice, Northern Ireland also preferred to stay in the EU. 3) Your tactic of making up shit in order to propose a destructive agenda on to an independent country is the very epitome of colonialism. Why not let the people on the island of Ireland say what they want?" Thanks for explaining to the daft, I really couldn't be fucking bothered as that piss poor wrong statement / accusation has been trotted out over and over again and has been explained that it is wrong over and over again while all the information is on the net that proves it's just wrong but if Farage or some other twat hasn't said it then it can't be true.  | |||
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" So Ireland stayed in the EU and look what the EU has forced upon the poorest people of Ireland when their Banks collapsed in 2008 .They forced Ireland to borrow billions in bailout money in order to be able to save the German and French creditors from taking a haircut . " Nope The banks in Ireland had borrowed incredible sums of money from other banks. Amounting to several times the country's GDP. Ireland's government took a gamble to save its banks and said it would guarantee debts. Thinking they couldn't possibly have fucked up so big. Turns out they had, just like British banks. Creditors came knocking at the door asking for their money. The door of the Government. Now, does a country write off those debts and declare bankruptcy. (Iceland did). Or does it fall into line with the rules of the financial system? Just as Britain did. And make sure the markets are protected, while the people are made to suffer? Just as Britain did. | |||
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"Boris The Bullshitter is in Ireland today and was asked about proposals for ireland border. He said: "The government has “an abundance of proposals”. But he does not want to share them with the media." Two things: 1) He is either afraid of scrutiny or 2) He is lying Either way - the EU will be rocking up shortly to inform us. They at least have been open and honest whilst Johnson and May before him have done everything in their power to hide from scrutiny." From all past experience Boris is lying. | |||
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"Boris The Bullshitter is in Ireland today and was asked about proposals for ireland border. He said: "The government has “an abundance of proposals”. But he does not want to share them with the media." Two things: 1) He is either afraid of scrutiny or 2) He is lying Either way - the EU will be rocking up shortly to inform us. They at least have been open and honest whilst Johnson and May before him have done everything in their power to hide from scrutiny. From all past experience Boris is lying. " The EU is ‘open’ - hilarious The EU is ‘honest’ - really hilarious | |||
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" So Ireland stayed in the EU and look what the EU has forced upon the poorest people of Ireland when their Banks collapsed in 2008 .They forced Ireland to borrow billions in bailout money in order to be able to save the German and French creditors from taking a haircut . Nope The banks in Ireland had borrowed incredible sums of money from other banks. Amounting to several times the country's GDP. Ireland's government took a gamble to save its banks and said it would guarantee debts. Thinking they couldn't possibly have fucked up so big. Turns out they had, just like British banks. Creditors came knocking at the door asking for their money. The door of the Government. Now, does a country write off those debts and declare bankruptcy. (Iceland did). Or does it fall into line with the rules of the financial system? Just as Britain did. And make sure the markets are protected, while the people are made to suffer? Just as Britain did. " Not forgetting John Rusnak Lost AIB $691,000,000 A huge amount of money for Irelands biggest bank back in 2002 to lose, Very much regarded as Irelands version of Nick Leeson. | |||
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"Boris The Bullshitter is in Ireland today and was asked about proposals for ireland border. He said: "The government has “an abundance of proposals”. But he does not want to share them with the media." Two things: 1) He is either afraid of scrutiny or 2) He is lying Either way - the EU will be rocking up shortly to inform us. They at least have been open and honest whilst Johnson and May before him have done everything in their power to hide from scrutiny. From all past experience Boris is lying. The EU is ‘open’ - hilarious The EU is ‘honest’ - really hilarious " Could you give us one, just one solitary example of when the EU has not been open and honest throughout this entire Brexit debacle? When have they lied about their position, where they stand, what they want and how discussions/negotiations were going? | |||
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"Boris The Bullshitter is in Ireland today and was asked about proposals for ireland border. He said: "The government has “an abundance of proposals”. But he does not want to share them with the media." Two things: 1) He is either afraid of scrutiny or 2) He is lying Either way - the EU will be rocking up shortly to inform us. They at least have been open and honest whilst Johnson and May before him have done everything in their power to hide from scrutiny. From all past experience Boris is lying. The EU is ‘open’ - hilarious The EU is ‘honest’ - really hilarious Could you give us one, just one solitary example of when the EU has not been open and honest throughout this entire Brexit debacle? When have they lied about their position, where they stand, what they want and how discussions/negotiations were going?" Can you tell me when the the EU produced their last set of audited accounts ? | |||
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"Boris The Bullshitter is in Ireland today and was asked about proposals for ireland border. He said: "The government has “an abundance of proposals”. But he does not want to share them with the media." Two things: 1) He is either afraid of scrutiny or 2) He is lying Either way - the EU will be rocking up shortly to inform us. They at least have been open and honest whilst Johnson and May before him have done everything in their power to hide from scrutiny. From all past experience Boris is lying. The EU is ‘open’ - hilarious The EU is ‘honest’ - really hilarious Could you give us one, just one solitary example of when the EU has not been open and honest throughout this entire Brexit debacle? When have they lied about their position, where they stand, what they want and how discussions/negotiations were going? Can you tell me when the the EU produced their last set of audited accounts ? " Yes - every single year by the court of auditors (last time March 2019 for 2018). You have read somewhere that they don’t produce accounts and it suits your agenda to believe such nonsense without question. They produce annual accounts and they are audited: (EU website: https://ec.europa.eu/info/strategy/eu-budget/how-it-works/annual-lifecycle/assessment/annual-accounts-and-reports_en ) You are part of the problem of the spread of fake news. Society needs people to at least pause and think about what they are reading and sharing. Just because you want to believe that something is true - doesn’t mean that it is. Anyway, you challenged my assertion that the EU has been open and honest throughout this EU debate and your response was not to answer, but to deflect the question by trying to point out some fake assertions about something entirely different. So back to the point. When have the EU been anything other than clear and transparent about this Brexit process? | |||
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"Who came up with the "island of Ireland"? Of course its a island why go on about it every time Ireland is referred to? Or am I missing something?" Possibly people are using it as shorthand to mean the whole of the Republic and NI, as a geographic entity instead of neighbouring political entities? It also emphasises that it is separated from England by sea, and that it was previously one country until Henry VIII decided he owned the place in 1542 and we commenced fucking them over. [Yes, it is more complex than that, it probably does go back a lot further, no I'm not a historian] | |||
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"Who came up with the "island of Ireland"? Of course its a island why go on about it every time Ireland is referred to? Or am I missing something? Possibly people are using it as shorthand to mean the whole of the Republic and NI, as a geographic entity instead of neighbouring political entities? It also emphasises that it is separated from England by sea, and that it was previously one country until Henry VIII decided he owned the place in 1542 and we commenced fucking them over. [Yes, it is more complex than that, it probably does go back a lot further, no I'm not a historian]" Then why not just say Ireland? All this island of Ireland is just bull | |||
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"Who came up with the "island of Ireland"? Of course its a island why go on about it every time Ireland is referred to? Or am I missing something? Possibly people are using it as shorthand to mean the whole of the Republic and NI, as a geographic entity instead of neighbouring political entities? It also emphasises that it is separated from England by sea, and that it was previously one country until Henry VIII decided he owned the place in 1542 and we commenced fucking them over. [Yes, it is more complex than that, it probably does go back a lot further, no I'm not a historian] Then why not just say Ireland? All this island of Ireland is just bull " Because people take 'Ireland' to mean the Republic of Ireland, excluding NI. It is a bit of a tiresome phrase but it exists for a reason. | |||
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"Who came up with the "island of Ireland"? Of course its a island why go on about it every time Ireland is referred to? Or am I missing something? Possibly people are using it as shorthand to mean the whole of the Republic and NI, as a geographic entity instead of neighbouring political entities? It also emphasises that it is separated from England by sea, and that it was previously one country until Henry VIII decided he owned the place in 1542 and we commenced fucking them over. [Yes, it is more complex than that, it probably does go back a lot further, no I'm not a historian] Then why not just say Ireland? All this island of Ireland is just bull " One country and the province of another country on one island that is called Ireland. Seems reasonable unless you are a troll who just likes deflecting threads and meaninglessly taking apart reasonable posts. | |||
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"Who came up with the "island of Ireland"? Of course its a island why go on about it every time Ireland is referred to? Or am I missing something? Possibly people are using it as shorthand to mean the whole of the Republic and NI, as a geographic entity instead of neighbouring political entities? It also emphasises that it is separated from England by sea, and that it was previously one country until Henry VIII decided he owned the place in 1542 and we commenced fucking them over. [Yes, it is more complex than that, it probably does go back a lot further, no I'm not a historian] Then why not just say Ireland? All this island of Ireland is just bull One country and the province of another country on one island that is called Ireland. Seems reasonable unless you are a troll who just likes deflecting threads and meaninglessly taking apart reasonable posts." The just call it Ireland. Forget this island of Ireland malarkey. If you want to differentiate between North and South call them Eire and Ulster but enough of this island nonsense. If the UK breaks up what will we call GB? The island of 3 countries? | |||
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"Who came up with the "island of Ireland"? Of course its a island why go on about it every time Ireland is referred to? Or am I missing something? Possibly people are using it as shorthand to mean the whole of the Republic and NI, as a geographic entity instead of neighbouring political entities? It also emphasises that it is separated from England by sea, and that it was previously one country until Henry VIII decided he owned the place in 1542 and we commenced fucking them over. [Yes, it is more complex than that, it probably does go back a lot further, no I'm not a historian] Then why not just say Ireland? All this island of Ireland is just bull One country and the province of another country on one island that is called Ireland. Seems reasonable unless you are a troll who just likes deflecting threads and meaninglessly taking apart reasonable posts. The just call it Ireland. Forget this island of Ireland malarkey. If you want to differentiate between North and South call them Eire and Ulster but enough of this island nonsense. If the UK breaks up what will we call GB? The island of 3 countries?" Mary, Mary quite contrary - how does your garden grow? | |||
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"Who came up with the "island of Ireland"? Of course its a island why go on about it every time Ireland is referred to? Or am I missing something? Possibly people are using it as shorthand to mean the whole of the Republic and NI, as a geographic entity instead of neighbouring political entities? It also emphasises that it is separated from England by sea, and that it was previously one country until Henry VIII decided he owned the place in 1542 and we commenced fucking them over. [Yes, it is more complex than that, it probably does go back a lot further, no I'm not a historian] Then why not just say Ireland? All this island of Ireland is just bull One country and the province of another country on one island that is called Ireland. Seems reasonable unless you are a troll who just likes deflecting threads and meaninglessly taking apart reasonable posts. The just call it Ireland. Forget this island of Ireland malarkey. If you want to differentiate between North and South call them Eire and Ulster but enough of this island nonsense. If the UK breaks up what will we call GB? The island of 3 countries? Mary, Mary quite contrary - how does your garden grow?" Will grow a lot better once the UK broken up and Eire one country and Wales and Scotland divorced from England | |||
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"Boris The Bullshitter is in Ireland today and was asked about proposals for ireland border. He said: "The government has “an abundance of proposals”. But he does not want to share them with the media." Two things: 1) He is either afraid of scrutiny or 2) He is lying Either way - the EU will be rocking up shortly to inform us. They at least have been open and honest whilst Johnson and May before him have done everything in their power to hide from scrutiny. From all past experience Boris is lying. The EU is ‘open’ - hilarious The EU is ‘honest’ - really hilarious Could you give us one, just one solitary example of when the EU has not been open and honest throughout this entire Brexit debacle? When have they lied about their position, where they stand, what they want and how discussions/negotiations were going? Can you tell me when the the EU produced their last set of audited accounts ? Yes - every single year by the court of auditors (last time March 2019 for 2018). You have read somewhere that they don’t produce accounts and it suits your agenda to believe such nonsense without question. They produce annual accounts and they are audited: (EU website: https://ec.europa.eu/info/strategy/eu-budget/how-it-works/annual-lifecycle/assessment/annual-accounts-and-reports_en ) You are part of the problem of the spread of fake news. Society needs people to at least pause and think about what they are reading and sharing. Just because you want to believe that something is true - doesn’t mean that it is. Anyway, you challenged my assertion that the EU has been open and honest throughout this EU debate and your response was not to answer, but to deflect the question by trying to point out some fake assertions about something entirely different. So back to the point. When have the EU been anything other than clear and transparent about this Brexit process? " Anybody wanting to know about the probity of a company or organisation expects audited accounts from an independent organisation eg one of the big 4 accounting firms not a set of accounts produced by themselves . The EU produces ‘accounts’ created by its own European Court auditors! Even those have billions unaccounted for because they know they have to put some figure in to convince people like yourself that that they are like Mother Theresa. As for corruption among the new member states of Eastern Europe that we subsidise with our 10 billion net contribution I suppose you are going to deny this exists also . | |||
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"Boris The Bullshitter is in Ireland today and was asked about proposals for ireland border. He said: "The government has “an abundance of proposals”. But he does not want to share them with the media." Two things: 1) He is either afraid of scrutiny or 2) He is lying Either way - the EU will be rocking up shortly to inform us. They at least have been open and honest whilst Johnson and May before him have done everything in their power to hide from scrutiny. From all past experience Boris is lying. The EU is ‘open’ - hilarious The EU is ‘honest’ - really hilarious Could you give us one, just one solitary example of when the EU has not been open and honest throughout this entire Brexit debacle? When have they lied about their position, where they stand, what they want and how discussions/negotiations were going? Can you tell me when the the EU produced their last set of audited accounts ? Yes - every single year by the court of auditors (last time March 2019 for 2018). You have read somewhere that they don’t produce accounts and it suits your agenda to believe such nonsense without question. They produce annual accounts and they are audited: (EU website: https://ec.europa.eu/info/strategy/eu-budget/how-it-works/annual-lifecycle/assessment/annual-accounts-and-reports_en ) You are part of the problem of the spread of fake news. Society needs people to at least pause and think about what they are reading and sharing. Just because you want to believe that something is true - doesn’t mean that it is. Anyway, you challenged my assertion that the EU has been open and honest throughout this EU debate and your response was not to answer, but to deflect the question by trying to point out some fake assertions about something entirely different. So back to the point. When have the EU been anything other than clear and transparent about this Brexit process? Anybody wanting to know about the probity of a company or organisation expects audited accounts from an independent organisation eg one of the big 4 accounting firms not a set of accounts produced by themselves . The EU produces ‘accounts’ created by its own European Court auditors! Even those have billions unaccounted for because they know they have to put some figure in to convince people like yourself that that they are like Mother Theresa. As for corruption among the new member states of Eastern Europe that we subsidise with our 10 billion net contribution I suppose you are going to deny this exists also ." Ah yes....those big 4 accounting firms who are so reknowned for their probity? | |||
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"Boris The Bullshitter is in Ireland today and was asked about proposals for ireland border. He said: "The government has “an abundance of proposals”. But he does not want to share them with the media." Two things: 1) He is either afraid of scrutiny or 2) He is lying Either way - the EU will be rocking up shortly to inform us. They at least have been open and honest whilst Johnson and May before him have done everything in their power to hide from scrutiny. From all past experience Boris is lying. The EU is ‘open’ - hilarious The EU is ‘honest’ - really hilarious Could you give us one, just one solitary example of when the EU has not been open and honest throughout this entire Brexit debacle? When have they lied about their position, where they stand, what they want and how discussions/negotiations were going? Can you tell me when the the EU produced their last set of audited accounts ? Yes - every single year by the court of auditors (last time March 2019 for 2018). You have read somewhere that they don’t produce accounts and it suits your agenda to believe such nonsense without question. They produce annual accounts and they are audited: (EU website: https://ec.europa.eu/info/strategy/eu-budget/how-it-works/annual-lifecycle/assessment/annual-accounts-and-reports_en ) You are part of the problem of the spread of fake news. Society needs people to at least pause and think about what they are reading and sharing. Just because you want to believe that something is true - doesn’t mean that it is. Anyway, you challenged my assertion that the EU has been open and honest throughout this EU debate and your response was not to answer, but to deflect the question by trying to point out some fake assertions about something entirely different. So back to the point. When have the EU been anything other than clear and transparent about this Brexit process? Anybody wanting to know about the probity of a company or organisation expects audited accounts from an independent organisation eg one of the big 4 accounting firms not a set of accounts produced by themselves . The EU produces ‘accounts’ created by its own European Court auditors! Even those have billions unaccounted for because they know they have to put some figure in to convince people like yourself that that they are like Mother Theresa. As for corruption among the new member states of Eastern Europe that we subsidise with our 10 billion net contribution I suppose you are going to deny this exists also ." You are in a fantasy world. Are you also suggesting then that UK Government finances be audited by one of the "big four" instead of Auditor General? Or is it just the need to feed off conspiracy theories about how bad the EU is? I note you have still not answered the question. Today has seen more openness and honesty from the EU and more bluster, deflection and bullshit from the UK. I am frankly astonished that anyone viewing this process from our side is not shamed into embarrassment at the crass attempts at diplomacy and Statesmenship by our political elite. | |||
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"Boris The Bullshitter is in Ireland today and was asked about proposals for ireland border. He said: "The government has “an abundance of proposals”. But he does not want to share them with the media." Two things: 1) He is either afraid of scrutiny or 2) He is lying Either way - the EU will be rocking up shortly to inform us. They at least have been open and honest whilst Johnson and May before him have done everything in their power to hide from scrutiny. From all past experience Boris is lying. The EU is ‘open’ - hilarious The EU is ‘honest’ - really hilarious Could you give us one, just one solitary example of when the EU has not been open and honest throughout this entire Brexit debacle? When have they lied about their position, where they stand, what they want and how discussions/negotiations were going? Can you tell me when the the EU produced their last set of audited accounts ? Yes - every single year by the court of auditors (last time March 2019 for 2018). You have read somewhere that they don’t produce accounts and it suits your agenda to believe such nonsense without question. They produce annual accounts and they are audited: (EU website: https://ec.europa.eu/info/strategy/eu-budget/how-it-works/annual-lifecycle/assessment/annual-accounts-and-reports_en ) You are part of the problem of the spread of fake news. Society needs people to at least pause and think about what they are reading and sharing. Just because you want to believe that something is true - doesn’t mean that it is. Anyway, you challenged my assertion that the EU has been open and honest throughout this EU debate and your response was not to answer, but to deflect the question by trying to point out some fake assertions about something entirely different. So back to the point. When have the EU been anything other than clear and transparent about this Brexit process? Anybody wanting to know about the probity of a company or organisation expects audited accounts from an independent organisation eg one of the big 4 accounting firms not a set of accounts produced by themselves . The EU produces ‘accounts’ created by its own European Court auditors! Even those have billions unaccounted for because they know they have to put some figure in to convince people like yourself that that they are like Mother Theresa. As for corruption among the new member states of Eastern Europe that we subsidise with our 10 billion net contribution I suppose you are going to deny this exists also . You are in a fantasy world. Are you also suggesting then that UK Government finances be audited by one of the "big four" instead of Auditor General? Or is it just the need to feed off conspiracy theories about how bad the EU is? I note you have still not answered the question. Today has seen more openness and honesty from the EU and more bluster, deflection and bullshit from the UK. I am frankly astonished that anyone viewing this process from our side is not shamed into embarrassment at the crass attempts at diplomacy and Statesmenship by our political elite. " Are you really expecting a "probable" leaver to answer a question that shows they are wrong and that their so called headline quotes that they take onboard and spout as their own are utter bullshit and not deflect the question instead .... Good fucking luck with that | |||
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"Boris The Bullshitter is in Ireland today and was asked about proposals for ireland border. He said: "The government has “an abundance of proposals”. But he does not want to share them with the media." Two things: 1) He is either afraid of scrutiny or 2) He is lying Either way - the EU will be rocking up shortly to inform us. They at least have been open and honest whilst Johnson and May before him have done everything in their power to hide from scrutiny. From all past experience Boris is lying. The EU is ‘open’ - hilarious The EU is ‘honest’ - really hilarious Could you give us one, just one solitary example of when the EU has not been open and honest throughout this entire Brexit debacle? When have they lied about their position, where they stand, what they want and how discussions/negotiations were going? Can you tell me when the the EU produced their last set of audited accounts ? Yes - every single year by the court of auditors (last time March 2019 for 2018). You have read somewhere that they don’t produce accounts and it suits your agenda to believe such nonsense without question. They produce annual accounts and they are audited: (EU website: https://ec.europa.eu/info/strategy/eu-budget/how-it-works/annual-lifecycle/assessment/annual-accounts-and-reports_en ) You are part of the problem of the spread of fake news. Society needs people to at least pause and think about what they are reading and sharing. Just because you want to believe that something is true - doesn’t mean that it is. Anyway, you challenged my assertion that the EU has been open and honest throughout this EU debate and your response was not to answer, but to deflect the question by trying to point out some fake assertions about something entirely different. So back to the point. When have the EU been anything other than clear and transparent about this Brexit process? Anybody wanting to know about the probity of a company or organisation expects audited accounts from an independent organisation eg one of the big 4 accounting firms not a set of accounts produced by themselves . The EU produces ‘accounts’ created by its own European Court auditors! Even those have billions unaccounted for because they know they have to put some figure in to convince people like yourself that that they are like Mother Theresa. As for corruption among the new member states of Eastern Europe that we subsidise with our 10 billion net contribution I suppose you are going to deny this exists also . You are in a fantasy world. Are you also suggesting then that UK Government finances be audited by one of the "big four" instead of Auditor General? Or is it just the need to feed off conspiracy theories about how bad the EU is? I note you have still not answered the question. Today has seen more openness and honesty from the EU and more bluster, deflection and bullshit from the UK. I am frankly astonished that anyone viewing this process from our side is not shamed into embarrassment at the crass attempts at diplomacy and Statesmenship by our political elite. Are you really expecting a "probable" leaver to answer a question that shows they are wrong and that their so called headline quotes that they take onboard and spout as their own are utter bullshit and not deflect the question instead .... Good fucking luck with that "You need to swear to make a point? Construct an argument instead or go marching with a handed out remain banner. The so called question is about as useful and correct as any answers he gives.He actually believes the EU is open and honest. Ok i will take the bait and give one example and that is Yiannis Varoufakis the Greek finance minister who 'negotiated' the Greek bailout with the EU trioka (he found that there were no negotiations to be had just ultimatums) asked at the first meeting 'who is taking the minutes ' as he couldnt see anybody doing it and was told 'we dont take minutes'. Is that 'open' ? He ended up secretely recording what was said so the honest and open EU couldnt spout any rubbish and false info aftetwards for you and your mate to take as gospel. | |||
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"Who came up with the "island of Ireland"? Of course its a island why go on about it every time Ireland is referred to? Or am I missing something? Possibly people are using it as shorthand to mean the whole of the Republic and NI, as a geographic entity instead of neighbouring political entities? It also emphasises that it is separated from England by sea, and that it was previously one country until Henry VIII decided he owned the place in 1542 and we commenced fucking them over. [Yes, it is more complex than that, it probably does go back a lot further, no I'm not a historian] Then why not just say Ireland? All this island of Ireland is just bull One country and the province of another country on one island that is called Ireland. Seems reasonable unless you are a troll who just likes deflecting threads and meaninglessly taking apart reasonable posts. The just call it Ireland. Forget this island of Ireland malarkey. If you want to differentiate between North and South call them Eire and Ulster but enough of this island nonsense. If the UK breaks up what will we call GB? The island of 3 countries?" How can you differnciate by calling Eire & Ulster when 3 of Ulsters 9 counties lay in The republic & 6 counties lay in Norn Ireland ? It was originally proposed back in the 1920s that it should be the entirety of Ulster in the Union , however this was put down by the unionist leaders as it would have given catholic Nationalist/republicans a majority vote in the North. Something that was unacceptable to thisr loyal to the crown. Which then started the downward spiral that led to the "troubles". This then led to the gfa to have thw republic to dispose of its claim on its historical 6 counties & Westminster to cede that when a time came for a majority vote ( even if a republican one ) it would willingly allow for reunification. This needed lots of negotiating as Ireland was a full member of the EU with the euro etc & the North with Sterling. All had to be able treated as equals etc. | |||
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" Good fucking luck with that
You need to swear to make a point? "Fucking hell, I hope for your sake you don't go into other forums on this site or read people's profiles because you're going to be shocked when you read the likes of Fuck Cunt Cock Arsehole Wanking Fucking Bitch Jesus, you're in for a nasty surprise | |||
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"Boris The Bullshitter is in Ireland today and was asked about proposals for ireland border. He said: "The government has “an abundance of proposals”. But he does not want to share them with the media." Two things: 1) He is either afraid of scrutiny or 2) He is lying Either way - the EU will be rocking up shortly to inform us. They at least have been open and honest whilst Johnson and May before him have done everything in their power to hide from scrutiny. From all past experience Boris is lying. The EU is ‘open’ - hilarious The EU is ‘honest’ - really hilarious Could you give us one, just one solitary example of when the EU has not been open and honest throughout this entire Brexit debacle? When have they lied about their position, where they stand, what they want and how discussions/negotiations were going? Can you tell me when the the EU produced their last set of audited accounts ? Yes - every single year by the court of auditors (last time March 2019 for 2018). You have read somewhere that they don’t produce accounts and it suits your agenda to believe such nonsense without question. They produce annual accounts and they are audited: (EU website: https://ec.europa.eu/info/strategy/eu-budget/how-it-works/annual-lifecycle/assessment/annual-accounts-and-reports_en ) You are part of the problem of the spread of fake news. Society needs people to at least pause and think about what they are reading and sharing. Just because you want to believe that something is true - doesn’t mean that it is. Anyway, you challenged my assertion that the EU has been open and honest throughout this EU debate and your response was not to answer, but to deflect the question by trying to point out some fake assertions about something entirely different. So back to the point. When have the EU been anything other than clear and transparent about this Brexit process? Anybody wanting to know about the probity of a company or organisation expects audited accounts from an independent organisation eg one of the big 4 accounting firms not a set of accounts produced by themselves . The EU produces ‘accounts’ created by its own European Court auditors! Even those have billions unaccounted for because they know they have to put some figure in to convince people like yourself that that they are like Mother Theresa. As for corruption among the new member states of Eastern Europe that we subsidise with our 10 billion net contribution I suppose you are going to deny this exists also . You are in a fantasy world. Are you also suggesting then that UK Government finances be audited by one of the "big four" instead of Auditor General? Or is it just the need to feed off conspiracy theories about how bad the EU is? I note you have still not answered the question. Today has seen more openness and honesty from the EU and more bluster, deflection and bullshit from the UK. I am frankly astonished that anyone viewing this process from our side is not shamed into embarrassment at the crass attempts at diplomacy and Statesmenship by our political elite. Are you really expecting a "probable" leaver to answer a question that shows they are wrong and that their so called headline quotes that they take onboard and spout as their own are utter bullshit and not deflect the question instead .... Good fucking luck with that
You need to swear to make a point? Construct an argument instead or go marching with a handed out remain banner.
The so called question is about as useful and correct as any answers he gives.He actually believes the EU is open and honest.
Ok i will take the bait and give one example and that is Yiannis Varoufakis the Greek finance minister who 'negotiated' the Greek bailout with the EU trioka (he found that there were no negotiations to be had just ultimatums) asked at the first meeting 'who is taking the minutes ' as he couldnt see anybody doing it and was told 'we dont take minutes'. Is that 'open' ?
He ended up secretely recording what was said so the honest and open EU couldnt spout any rubbish and false info aftetwards for you and your mate to take as gospel."So, after all that you still didn't answer the question
Well done | |||
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