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"Liverpool has a large university. It also has many affluent areas, as well as a few deprived areas. " Exactly this County Durham voted leave, all parliamentary constituencies within the county voted leave. with the exception of Durham City*, which these days is filled to the brim with students and academic profs * the official count for County Durham was not done by individual constituency and so the result for Durham City was an unofficial guess | |||
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"Liverpool has a large university. It also has many affluent areas, as well as a few deprived areas. " They did analysis by socio economic group as their hypothesis was the effect should be more pronounced among unskilled working class (who before hilsborough would more likely read the sun) than middle class (who probably wouldn't ever read the sun). The effects were large and significant among unskilled working class and small among middle class. | |||
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"So the higher your level of education the more likely you voted remain... Ouch... "aw your a clever bunch bob lol | |||
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"Much is made of working class communities voting for Brexit. So why did Liverpool, the Wirral and Sefton vote Remain? A study by scientists at the London School of Economics and Zurich University came up with an interesting conclusion. The boycott of the Sun newspaper on Merseyside (since its disgraceful reporting of the Hillsborough disaster) meant anti-EU feeling in the area was lower than in similar socio-economic areas. It noted a substitution effect to pro-EU newspapers, particularly the Daily Mirror. "The boycott of the most important Eurosceptic newspaper - the Sun - in Merseyside as a consequence of its reporting of the Hillsborough disaster, led to a decrease of Euroscepticism in Merseyside, which we estimate to be around 11 percentage points." They added: "Sustained media campaigns on emerging issues can have large, lasting and ultimately consequential effects on public opinion and public policy." The conclusion - less exposure to the Sun newspaper makes you less hostile to the EU. Who'd have thunk it? "Merseyside is always an interesting cross section of life. And in the Brexit debate, I would hope that people will listen to the views of Merseyside. Sefton has been home for a long time to queers / gays / LGBT friendly people who like to play their organs. Liverpool once ruled the world in world trade. Once a leading international port, Liverpool. It's fitting that the Tate gallery is right next door to the slavery museum which is right next door to the world museum. Tate, there's a familiar name.... Tate and Lyle anyone? Mr Barclay? Where is he right now? Meanwhile, over "On The Wirral" (or is that "Up The Wirral?"), never was a peninsular more divided by fluidity. The Wirral, home to a massive, conglomerate, corporate company. I'm thinking Unilever. Perhaps one of the most important UK-Euro partnerships since the outbreak of WW1? Who would have thought that soap, washing powder, butter, margarine and palm oil could be so closely related? And closely related to such an important world wide conglomerate. Remember that the next time you shower with Lynx Africa. Back to The Wirral. Divided yet united? The East coast and the West coast? Home to a park which inspired New York City's Central Park. With a Japanese Bridge, Grand Entrance and Boat House. Back to Sefton, would that be the home to Formby Beach, where tobacco road leads one of the 5 human senses to some of the most polluting beach defences? (Smell the smell of tobacco in the air on Formby Beach) Would Sefton be home to one of the most important an recognisable works of 20th century art? Alongside the Angel of the North? Who would have thought that a plaster cast, or similar, of the same human body could become so well renowned (other that Anthony)? | |||
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"Much is made of working class communities voting for Brexit. So why did Liverpool, the Wirral and Sefton vote Remain? A study by scientists at the London School of Economics and Zurich University came up with an interesting conclusion. The boycott of the Sun newspaper on Merseyside (since its disgraceful reporting of the Hillsborough disaster) meant anti-EU feeling in the area was lower than in similar socio-economic areas. It noted a substitution effect to pro-EU newspapers, particularly the Daily Mirror. "The boycott of the most important Eurosceptic newspaper - the Sun - in Merseyside as a consequence of its reporting of the Hillsborough disaster, led to a decrease of Euroscepticism in Merseyside, which we estimate to be around 11 percentage points." They added: "Sustained media campaigns on emerging issues can have large, lasting and ultimately consequential effects on public opinion and public policy." The conclusion - less exposure to the Sun newspaper makes you less hostile to the EU. Who'd have thunk it? "The conclusion could also be greater exposure to pro-EU media makes you more pro-EU. I suppose the conclusion could be said to be unconsciously biased to reflect the views of the report's writer (or maybe even purposefully written to reflect the views or requirements of whoever commissioned the report). | |||
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"On a media subject, I see the Advertising Standards people have upheld a complaint about misleading Home Office adverts advising EU citizens on how to stay in the UK. The advert has been banned." In a bid to encourage as many as possible to get registered and secure their future stay, they made the advert too simplistic. | |||
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"Much is made of working class communities voting for Brexit. So why did Liverpool, the Wirral and Sefton vote Remain? A study by scientists at the London School of Economics and Zurich University came up with an interesting conclusion. The boycott of the Sun newspaper on Merseyside (since its disgraceful reporting of the Hillsborough disaster) meant anti-EU feeling in the area was lower than in similar socio-economic areas. It noted a substitution effect to pro-EU newspapers, particularly the Daily Mirror. "The boycott of the most important Eurosceptic newspaper - the Sun - in Merseyside as a consequence of its reporting of the Hillsborough disaster, led to a decrease of Euroscepticism in Merseyside, which we estimate to be around 11 percentage points." They added: "Sustained media campaigns on emerging issues can have large, lasting and ultimately consequential effects on public opinion and public policy." The conclusion - less exposure to the Sun newspaper makes you less hostile to the EU. Who'd have thunk it?
The conclusion could also be greater exposure to pro-EU media makes you more pro-EU.
I suppose the conclusion could be said to be unconsciously biased to reflect the views of the report's writer (or maybe even purposefully written to reflect the views or requirements of whoever commissioned the report). "I can't think of anywhere in the British Isles which has faced as much pro Euro sentiment as the Wirral since the arrival of Lord Leverhulme from Bolton. | |||
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"The reason is that the EU has done a lot of good for the city,the EU has helped make Liverpool a great city again. I admit this even as a leaver but like all Merseysiders I have a lot to thank the EU for" I would like to add however that the reason Liverpool went so downhill was because the port died when we joined the EU and the atlantic trade died.The EU owed us as they caused the downturn in the first place along with Hatton | |||
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"Much is made of working class communities voting for Brexit. So why did Liverpool, the Wirral and Sefton vote Remain? A study by scientists at the London School of Economics and Zurich University came up with an interesting conclusion. The boycott of the Sun newspaper on Merseyside (since its disgraceful reporting of the Hillsborough disaster) meant anti-EU feeling in the area was lower than in similar socio-economic areas. It noted a substitution effect to pro-EU newspapers, particularly the Daily Mirror. "The boycott of the most important Eurosceptic newspaper - the Sun - in Merseyside as a consequence of its reporting of the Hillsborough disaster, led to a decrease of Euroscepticism in Merseyside, which we estimate to be around 11 percentage points." They added: "Sustained media campaigns on emerging issues can have large, lasting and ultimately consequential effects on public opinion and public policy." The conclusion - less exposure to the Sun newspaper makes you less hostile to the EU. Who'd have thunk it?
The conclusion could also be greater exposure to pro-EU media makes you more pro-EU.
I suppose the conclusion could be said to be unconsciously biased to reflect the views of the report's writer (or maybe even purposefully written to reflect the views or requirements of whoever commissioned the report). "The paper hasn't yet been peer reviewed so there could be a methodology process on there. But assuming the analysis was rigorous... The hypothesis Pro eu papers create pro eu bias is notbtested and can't be extrapolated. The sun's readership may be more prone to influence. (I'm not saying they, just unless you know, you can't extrapolate). While the author may have been biased in his choice of investigation, unless the methodology was biased, I can't see how why the conclusion is biased. Stats techniques should eliminate bias. I guess we all have a bias to reject things which don't affirm our beliefs... I wonder how many have looked at the paper before second guessing why the conclusion is wrong... And I wonder if the same would have put the resukt "papers don't cause bias" through the same critique... | |||
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"The reason is that the EU has done a lot of good for the city,the EU has helped make Liverpool a great city again. I admit this even as a leaver but like all Merseysiders I have a lot to thank the EU forI would like to add however that the reason Liverpool went so downhill was because the port died when we joined the EU and the atlantic trade died.The EU owed us as they caused the downturn in the first place along with Hatton" Amazing. Can I ask, do you actually believe that the EU is responsible for the decline in ship based trade exports from Liverpool to the states? | |||
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"Liverpool has a large university. It also has many affluent areas, as well as a few deprived areas. " I don't think the Uni has much to do with it. It concentrates people more likely to be pro-eu/indifferent in one area (academics, graduates, technical professionals, start ups) and bolsters that demographic a bit in neighbouring constituencies - mainly in large urban areas (Liverpool, Leeds, Manchester). Visa versa if the city is smaller and surrounded by rural areas, the bolstering impact is dispersed due to people and jobs being more concentrated to the Urban constituency. York is a good example. I think what makes an impact in less affluent pro- EU areas is the marketing/advertising of social and industrial EU schemes (Liverpool waterfront and the amount of R&D on the Wirral), and local media influence. | |||
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"Much is made of working class communities voting for Brexit. So why did Liverpool, the Wirral and Sefton vote Remain? A study by scientists at the London School of Economics and Zurich University came up with an interesting conclusion. The boycott of the Sun newspaper on Merseyside (since its disgraceful reporting of the Hillsborough disaster) meant anti-EU feeling in the area was lower than in similar socio-economic areas. It noted a substitution effect to pro-EU newspapers, particularly the Daily Mirror. "The boycott of the most important Eurosceptic newspaper - the Sun - in Merseyside as a consequence of its reporting of the Hillsborough disaster, led to a decrease of Euroscepticism in Merseyside, which we estimate to be around 11 percentage points." They added: "Sustained media campaigns on emerging issues can have large, lasting and ultimately consequential effects on public opinion and public policy." The conclusion - less exposure to the Sun newspaper makes you less hostile to the EU. Who'd have thunk it?
The conclusion could also be greater exposure to pro-EU media makes you more pro-EU.
I suppose the conclusion could be said to be unconsciously biased to reflect the views of the report's writer (or maybe even purposefully written to reflect the views or requirements of whoever commissioned the report). "Your first point is a logical fallacy. You are presuming that due to the absence of one pro-brexit medium more people are consuming pro-eu media. You cannot presume that people are replacing their media consumption. If there were a controlled test in which you measured political preference on a control group who had never consumed political media - run alongside four groups of consumers; one pair having unfettered media access, the other populations being in areas where pro-eu/pro-brexit media were selected against negatively but still present, then you could reasonably assess the effect of media exposure upon political leaning. All you have done is to put your opinion and spin on the analysis. | |||
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"The reason is that the EU has done a lot of good for the city,the EU has helped make Liverpool a great city again. I admit this even as a leaver but like all Merseysiders I have a lot to thank the EU forI would like to add however that the reason Liverpool went so downhill was because the port died when we joined the EU and the atlantic trade died.The EU owed us as they caused the downturn in the first place along with Hatton Amazing. Can I ask, do you actually believe that the EU is responsible for the decline in ship based trade exports from Liverpool to the states? " If you look at a map, it's quite clear that the biggest obstacle to shipping between Liverpool and the USA is Ireland. Not much changes, huh? | |||
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"The reason is that the EU has done a lot of good for the city,the EU has helped make Liverpool a great city again. I admit this even as a leaver but like all Merseysiders I have a lot to thank the EU forI would like to add however that the reason Liverpool went so downhill was because the port died when we joined the EU and the atlantic trade died.The EU owed us as they caused the downturn in the first place along with Hatton" Joining the Common Market (not EU) may have had an impact but prior to this Liverpool's ports were already in decline. Are you suggesting that had the UK not joined the Common Market Liverpool would have flourished. You do realise that the Halewood Ford plant was built in 1963 was seen as a recovery for the city from the already declining transatlantic port? | |||
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"It stimulates thought upon how we individually get information upon political events, where some form of the media is the likely conduit, with any biases or opinion that are introduced by the channel also likely to affect our understanding of the information. Media channels have huge potential power to shift public knowledge and opinion." I think this is very true, and becoming more noticeable in the current climate | |||
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"It stimulates thought upon how we individually get information upon political events, where some form of the media is the likely conduit, with any biases or opinion that are introduced by the channel also likely to affect our understanding of the information. Media channels have huge potential power to shift public knowledge and opinion." I totally agree. I spent almost half of my time over the past 10 years working in European countries across the channel. I met and lived alongside very real and very ordinary people throughout Europe. I also spent time in Switzerland and with people from Australia & Russia. I based my decision to vote remain on these experiences. These experiences and times taught me that bananas really don't have to be a particular shape or size (unless they are to be sold with a label suggesting they are high quality class 1 bananas). I also learned that Russian people love rock music, know what a full English breakfast is and really can't get their heads around why the UK wants to become an "East German esque" totalitarian country cut off from the rest of the world. | |||
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"The port of Liverpool is now thriving. New owners and continued investment at Seaforth, have generated a big increase in traffic. Larger container ships from the Americas can dock there, rather than adding extra cost going round to Southampton or Felixstowe. " I live in the shadow of those Seaforth docks, I have sailed to and from Southampton and I've visited Felixstowe more than once. I've also been to Europort and Rotterdam. Having seen for myself the scale and size of port operations at Europort and the size of port operations at Seaforth, I am left in no doubt what so ever that Seaforth is 500ml of water compared to the oceans of other international ports. Also, look at a map and you will see that Southampton is far more convenient for ships coming from the Americas than Liverpool ever will be. The small island of Ireland gets in the way of a direct route from the Atlantic to Liverpool. | |||
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"The port of Liverpool is now thriving. New owners and continued investment at Seaforth, have generated a big increase in traffic. Larger container ships from the Americas can dock there, rather than adding extra cost going round to Southampton or Felixstowe. " Furthermore, suggesting the importance of Seaforth docks to the city of Liverpool is somewhat similar to suggesting the importance of Boundary Mills to Grantham. It makes the A1 a bit busier, but the A1 will never be as busy as the M1. Liverpool certainly IS a city on the up, and docks are at the heart of the upward movements. Albert Dock particularly, but also the Liverpool and Birkenhead docks which link the British mainland with Ireland & the Isle of Man (Britains very own off shore tax haven). The area around Liverpool is also important for sea transport to & from the many refineries around Eastham, Stanlow & Ellesmere Port, the Mersey is vital to the Manchester Ship Canal. These are all factors which Peel Ports have taken into consideration. They also took into consideration the amount of money the could charge for leasing the "air space" above the Manchester Ship Canal, which they own. This is something which is only too well known to anyone who has to regularly cross the Manchester Ship Canal between Manchester and Liverpool. Perhaps one of the heaviest tolled canals in the UK? | |||
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"The reason is that the EU has done a lot of good for the city,the EU has helped make Liverpool a great city again. I admit this even as a leaver but like all Merseysiders I have a lot to thank the EU forI would like to add however that the reason Liverpool went so downhill was because the port died when we joined the EU and the atlantic trade died.The EU owed us as they caused the downturn in the first place along with Hatton Amazing. Can I ask, do you actually believe that the EU is responsible for the decline in ship based trade exports from Liverpool to the states? " Not directly but as trade switched from the Atlantic to Europe ports like Felixtow became big and Liverpool contracted.It was a fact of life when we joined.Many so called this is a documented fact | |||
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"The reason is that the EU has done a lot of good for the city,the EU has helped make Liverpool a great city again. I admit this even as a leaver but like all Merseysiders I have a lot to thank the EU forI would like to add however that the reason Liverpool went so downhill was because the port died when we joined the EU and the atlantic trade died.The EU owed us as they caused the downturn in the first place along with Hatton Amazing. Can I ask, do you actually believe that the EU is responsible for the decline in ship based trade exports from Liverpool to the states? Not directly but as trade switched from the Atlantic to Europe ports like Felixtow became big and Liverpool contracted.It was a fact of life when we joined.Many so called this is a documented fact" I know what you are saying, but Felixstowe is NOT big on a world wide scale. Liverpool is actually quite successful, even today. If we assume that Liverpool includes Seaforth, Eastham, Ellesmere Port, Birkenhead and Bootle, there are an amazing number of ships and cruise liners carrying all manner of things & people along the Mersey. Also, container ships generally don't just go from one port to another port. They call at several ports along their route. For Atlantic container ships travelling from the Americas to Europe, Liverpool and Felixstowe represent considerable extra distance. | |||
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"Freight shipping was transformed by the introduction of the standardised shipping container. This meant every cargo came in a single standard size, allowing huge new freight carriers to be built. The ports that were large enough and deep enough to handle these new super-carriers prospered. Those that weren't withered. Some have redeveloped as housing and leisure developments. Others are neglected to this day. " I see what you are saying, but I have to wonder why Seaforth, Liverpool which is deep enough to handle the largest ships in the world, failed to prosper. Could it be that ports such as Europort are better connected to the rest of Europe? | |||
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"Freight shipping was transformed by the introduction of the standardised shipping container. This meant every cargo came in a single standard size, allowing huge new freight carriers to be built. The ports that were large enough and deep enough to handle these new super-carriers prospered. Those that weren't withered. Some have redeveloped as housing and leisure developments. Others are neglected to this day. I see what you are saying, but I have to wonder why Seaforth, Liverpool which is deep enough to handle the largest ships in the world, failed to prosper. Could it be that ports such as Europort are better connected to the rest of Europe? " Containerisation changed everything. Unfortunately, UK shipping companies were just as behind the curve as many U.K. ports. Container ports need a huge land mass to store and manage containers and traditional ports were just not geared up for that kind of change. I was at sea for a while and the company I started with decided that containerisation was a fad. They went from 72 ships in 1977 to 12 by 1983. Meanwhile more forward looking foreign flag operators cleaned up the business. - Sea Containers, Swire and Safmarine led the way. | |||
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"So the higher your level of education the more likely you voted remain... Ouch... "Yes, and they could not find one economics expert to back brexit, so the brexit people said they had enough of experts and experts didnt know what they were talking about. | |||
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"So the higher your level of education the more likely you voted remain... Ouch...
Yes, and they could not find one economics expert to back brexit, so the brexit people said they had enough of experts and experts didnt know what they were talking about.". Well done, you've just proved their entire point, we can't trust the educated to be with us on decisions that mean something to us, they know better, were idiots, just roll with it. Hmmmm I think they've started to rebel from your narrative and now your fucked. Congratulations! | |||
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"Much is made of working class communities voting for Brexit. So why did Liverpool, the Wirral and Sefton vote Remain? A study by scientists at the London School of Economics and Zurich University came up with an interesting conclusion. The boycott of the Sun newspaper on Merseyside (since its disgraceful reporting of the Hillsborough disaster) meant anti-EU feeling in the area was lower than in similar socio-economic areas. It noted a substitution effect to pro-EU newspapers, particularly the Daily Mirror. "The boycott of the most important Eurosceptic newspaper - the Sun - in Merseyside as a consequence of its reporting of the Hillsborough disaster, led to a decrease of Euroscepticism in Merseyside, which we estimate to be around 11 percentage points." They added: "Sustained media campaigns on emerging issues can have large, lasting and ultimately consequential effects on public opinion and public policy." The conclusion - less exposure to the Sun newspaper makes you less hostile to the EU. Who'd have thunk it?
The conclusion could also be greater exposure to pro-EU media makes you more pro-EU.
I suppose the conclusion could be said to be unconsciously biased to reflect the views of the report's writer (or maybe even purposefully written to reflect the views or requirements of whoever commissioned the report).
Your first point is a logical fallacy. You are presuming that due to the absence of one pro-brexit medium more people are consuming pro-eu media.
You cannot presume that people are replacing their media consumption.
If there were a controlled test in which you measured political preference on a control group who had never consumed political media - run alongside four groups of consumers; one pair having unfettered media access, the other populations being in areas where pro-eu/pro-brexit media were selected against negatively but still present, then you could reasonably assess the effect of media exposure upon political leaning.
All you have done is to put your opinion and spin on the analysis.
"Actually, the OP said the analysis in the report stated people replaced the anti-eu Sun newspaper with pro-eu newspapers (maybe you didn't read that bit). And I haven't put my own spin nor opinion on the analysis. All I did was point out that the report could just as easily have concluded that greater exposure to more pro-EU media makes people more pro-EU, as opposed to saying that less exposure to anti-EU media makes people less hostile to the EU. Wasn't their a study in the aftermath of the EU referendum that said that people that read pro-EU papers were more likely to vote to remain, whilst people that read anti-EU papers were more likely to vote leave? | |||
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" I see what you are saying, but I have to wonder why Seaforth, Liverpool which is deep enough to handle the largest ships in the world, failed to prosper. Could it be that ports such as Europort are better connected to the rest of Europe? " I imagine so. When the super-carriers came on the scene, some ports would have seen the opportunity to become super-hubs and others would have missed out. Huge volumes of cargo unloaded and then transferred from these new strategic hubs to regional hubs, either by road or by smaller ship. Freight shipping was transformed. Those parts unable to receive the giant ships had to find a new role or die, basically. | |||
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"The port of Liverpool is now thriving. New owners and continued investment at Seaforth, have generated a big increase in traffic. Larger container ships from the Americas can dock there, rather than adding extra cost going round to Southampton or Felixstowe. I live in the shadow of those Seaforth docks, I have sailed to and from Southampton and I've visited Felixstowe more than once. I've also been to Europort and Rotterdam. Having seen for myself the scale and size of port operations at Europort and the size of port operations at Seaforth, I am left in no doubt what so ever that Seaforth is 500ml of water compared to the oceans of other international ports. Also, look at a map and you will see that Southampton is far more convenient for ships coming from the Americas than Liverpool ever will be. The small island of Ireland gets in the way of a direct route from the Atlantic to Liverpool. " I take your point but Antwerp and Rotterdam are the gateways to the more industrialised and much larger Western Europe. It stands to reason that they are larger, and having spent time in both, its also obvious that they have a much better infrastructure for moving the freight out than Seaforth will ever have. Seaforth has grown. Its now becoming a major player. I have a family member that works there, and he says that the takeover has seen the port get busier, more routes have come on stream and he feels that he has a job for life there. | |||
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"All you have to do is read the hundreds of untrue lying totally incorrect posts by leavers which are basically word for word headlines from EU hating media outlets over the last 30+ years to know the media controls the weak minded. " The internet controls the weakest minds that believe all the fake news | |||
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