FabSwingers.com forum: Churchill wanted britain to be in the eu.

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

To keep the peace after the war, does it mean that brexiters dont respect his wish to be there? I wonder what he would think of brexit? No doubt the biggest mistake ever done

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"If Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea."

Winston S Churchill.

We are with Europe, but not of it.

Winston S Churchill.

Doesn't sound like a raving Europhile to me.

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By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

Feel sorry for the poor lad lol

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By *tace 309TV/TS
over a year ago

durham

"To keep the peace after the war, does it mean that brexiters dont respect his wish to be there? I wonder what he would think of brexit? No doubt the biggest mistake ever done

"
no the biggest mistake was joining the pile of shite in the first place

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By *pitfiremk10Man
over a year ago

Gloucester

"To keep the peace after the war, does it mean that brexiters dont respect his wish to be there? I wonder what he would think of brexit? No doubt the biggest mistake ever done

no the biggest mistake was joining the pile of shite in the first place "

Exactly this

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By *wosmilersCouple
over a year ago

Heathrowish

I am not sure that Churchill would have considered the EU as it has become when commenting on European "membership".

Perhaps we can consider the same meaningless phrase but substitute the name of Hitler, Stalin, Gandhi, Napoleon, Elizabeth I, Julius Caesar or any other......?

Meaningless

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

""If Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea."

Winston S Churchill.

We are with Europe, but not of it.

Winston S Churchill.

Doesn't sound like a raving Europhile to me."

He wrote that in 1930.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Fast forward to 1946 and his speech at the University of Zurich in 1946:

“There is a remedy which ... would in a few years make all Europe ... free and ... happy. It is to re-create the European family, or as much of it as we can, and to provide it with a structure under which it can dwell in peace, in safety and in freedom. We must build a kind of United States of Europe.”

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

With this plea for a United States of Europe, Churchill was one of the first to advocate European integration to prevent the atrocities of two world wars from ever happening again, calling for the creation of a Council of Europe as a first step.

In 1948, in The Hague, 800 delegates from all European countries met, with Churchill as honorary president, at a grand Congress of Europe.

This led to the creation of the Council of Europe on 5 May 1949, the first meeting of which was attended by Churchill himself. His call to action can be seen as propelling further integration as later agreed upon during the Messina Conference in 1955, which led to the Treaty of Rome two years later. It was also Churchill who would first moot the idea of a ‘European army’ designed to protect the continent and provide European diplomacy with some muscle. Furthermore, the European Court of Human Rights was created in 1959 — a decade after Churchill first championed the idea.

Providing the inspiration to the people of Europe as the binding factor in the allied fight against Nazism and fascism, Winston Churchill consequently became a driving force behind European integration and an active fighter for its cause.

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

Is this the same Churchill that regularly gets vilified on here?

We liking him now?

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

There is no doubt he believed the post-war future was one of European integration.

Whether he would recognise that integration today, or support it, well I have no idea, honestly.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"Is this the same Churchill that regularly gets vilified on here?

We liking him now? "

If you want to bring up his views on completely unrelated subjects, you may well derail this thread.

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By *retty GoodMan
over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

"There is no doubt he believed the post-war future was one of European integration.

Whether he would recognise that integration today, or support it, well I have no idea, honestly.

Wow you honestly don’t know what the thoughts are today of a man who died 50 odd years ago

Really? Wow and thank you for being honest

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By *teveuk77Man
over a year ago

""If Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea."

Winston S Churchill.

We are with Europe, but not of it.

Winston S Churchill.

Doesn't sound like a raving Europhile to me.

He wrote that in 1930."

One part was from 1930 and the other from 1953. However, in 1961:

“I think that the Government are right to apply to join the European Economic Community...”

People change their minds. Perhaps the WW2 changed Churchill's?

Wasn't Boris Johnson a remainer in the early part of 2016. What changed his mind? It certainly wasn't an event as devastating as WW2.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"There is no doubt he believed the post-war future was one of European integration.

Whether he would recognise that integration today, or support it, well I have no idea, honestly.

Wow you honestly don’t know what the thoughts are today of a man who died 50 odd years ago

Really? Wow and thank you for being honest "

You really are one of a kind aren’t you.

You could have at least tried to add something to the thread to move it along instead of just picking on the poster.

Churchill made the “questionable” European support comments in the early 1930’s and made his much more supportive European comments after WW2. That is important. Something happened to change his mind, something made him realise that the future of this country lay in the heart of Europe.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"There is no doubt he believed the post-war future was one of European integration.

Whether he would recognise that integration today, or support it, well I have no idea, honestly.

Wow you honestly don’t know what the thoughts are today of a man who died 50 odd years ago

Really? Wow and thank you for being honest

You really are one of a kind aren’t you.

You could have at least tried to add something to the thread to move it along instead of just picking on the poster.

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By *retty GoodMan
over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

"There is no doubt he believed the post-war future was one of European integration.

Whether he would recognise that integration today, or support it, well I have no idea, honestly.

Wow you honestly don’t know what the thoughts are today of a man who died 50 odd years ago

Really? Wow and thank you for being honest

You really are one of a kind aren’t you.

You could have at least tried to add something to the thread to move it along instead of just picking on the poster.

Lol ahh the loonies, no I had nothing to add, but let such a stupid comment go by, not a chance

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By *V-AliceTV/TS
over a year ago

Ayr

He wanted a lot of things that he didn't get. A lot of things happened that he didn't want to happen.

He's been dead for ages. His views, either way, mean nothing in relation to Brexit.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"There is no doubt he believed the post-war future was one of European integration.

Whether he would recognise that integration today, or support it, well I have no idea, honestly.

Wow you honestly don’t know what the thoughts are today of a man who died 50 odd years ago

Really? Wow and thank you for being honest

You really are one of a kind aren’t you.

You could have at least tried to add something to the thread to move it along instead of just picking on the poster.

Lol ahh the loonies, no I had nothing to add, but let such a stupid comment go by, not a chance"

Or more likely. This doesn’t fit with what you want think but you are afraid that your ignorance of the issue will ultimately embarrass you. Best tactic therefore is to attack the poster.

In any rational mind this is a reasonable statement.

“There is no doubt he believed the post-war future was one of European integration.

Whether he would recognise that integration today, or support it, well I have no idea, honestly.”

Factually correct - he was in support of European integration

Factually correct - would he support the current levels of integration? Who knows. We can only know what he thought at the time.

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By *retty GoodMan
over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

"There is no doubt he believed the post-war future was one of European integration.

Whether he would recognise that integration today, or support it, well I have no idea, honestly.

Wow you honestly don’t know what the thoughts are today of a man who died 50 odd years ago

Really? Wow and thank you for being honest

You really are one of a kind aren’t you.

You could have at least tried to add something to the thread to move it along instead of just picking on the poster.

Lol ahh the loonies, no I had nothing to add, but let such a stupid comment go by, not a chance

Or more likely. This doesn’t fit with what you want think but you are afraid that your ignorance of the issue will ultimately embarrass you. Best tactic therefore is to attack the poster.

In any rational mind this is a reasonable statement.

“There is no doubt he believed the post-war future was one of European integration.

Whether he would recognise that integration today, or support it, well I have no idea, honestly.”

Factually correct - he was in support of European integration

Factually correct - would he support the current levels of integration? Who knows. We can only know what he thought at the time."

“Or more likely. This doesn’t fit with what you want think but you are afraid that your ignorance of the issue will ultimately embarrass you. Best tactic therefore is to attack the poster.”

Do you really think I care what somebody said who died over 50 odd years ago ?? Lol no I pointed out a massively stupid comment

Feel free to twist it or spin it again that’s fine

But boils down to my comments was about the post not the topic of the thread

Ahhh the loony left, love not hates guys come on

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"There is no doubt he believed the post-war future was one of European integration.

Whether he would recognise that integration today, or support it, well I have no idea, honestly.

Wow you honestly don’t know what the thoughts are today of a man who died 50 odd years ago

Really? Wow and thank you for being honest

You really are one of a kind aren’t you.

You could have at least tried to add something to the thread to move it along instead of just picking on the poster.

Lol ahh the loonies, no I had nothing to add, but let such a stupid comment go by, not a chance

Or more likely. This doesn’t fit with what you want think but you are afraid that your ignorance of the issue will ultimately embarrass you. Best tactic therefore is to attack the poster.

In any rational mind this is a reasonable statement.

“There is no doubt he believed the post-war future was one of European integration.

Whether he would recognise that integration today, or support it, well I have no idea, honestly.”

Factually correct - he was in support of European integration

Factually correct - would he support the current levels of integration? Who knows. We can only know what he thought at the time.

“Or more likely. This doesn’t fit with what you want think but you are afraid that your ignorance of the issue will ultimately embarrass you. Best tactic therefore is to attack the poster.”

Do you really think I care what somebody said who died over 50 odd years ago ?? Lol no I pointed out a massively stupid comment

Feel free to twist it or spin it again that’s fine

But boils down to my comments was about the post not the topic of the thread

Ahhh the loony left, love not hates guys come on "

If you don’t care what someone said 50 years ago, what made you comment on a thread about what this very same person who died 50 years ago said?

I think that you just like taking pops at people.

I believe people who do this are called trolls. Nothing to add to a thread that does not interest you anyway but oh.... look, I don’t like that person so I will chip in anyway - not to comment on a thread that I have no interest in, but just to have a pop at the person I don’t like.

Classy.

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By *retty GoodMan
over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

"There is no doubt he believed the post-war future was one of European integration.

Whether he would recognise that integration today, or support it, well I have no idea, honestly.

Wow you honestly don’t know what the thoughts are today of a man who died 50 odd years ago

Really? Wow and thank you for being honest

You really are one of a kind aren’t you.

You could have at least tried to add something to the thread to move it along instead of just picking on the poster.

Lol ahh the loonies, no I had nothing to add, but let such a stupid comment go by, not a chance

Or more likely. This doesn’t fit with what you want think but you are afraid that your ignorance of the issue will ultimately embarrass you. Best tactic therefore is to attack the poster.

In any rational mind this is a reasonable statement.

“There is no doubt he believed the post-war future was one of European integration.

Whether he would recognise that integration today, or support it, well I have no idea, honestly.”

Factually correct - he was in support of European integration

Factually correct - would he support the current levels of integration? Who knows. We can only know what he thought at the time.

“Or more likely. This doesn’t fit with what you want think but you are afraid that your ignorance of the issue will ultimately embarrass you. Best tactic therefore is to attack the poster.”

Do you really think I care what somebody said who died over 50 odd years ago ?? Lol no I pointed out a massively stupid comment

Feel free to twist it or spin it again that’s fine

But boils down to my comments was about the post not the topic of the thread

Ahhh the loony left, love not hates guys come on

If you don’t care what someone said 50 years ago, what made you comment on a thread about what this very same person who died 50 years ago said?

I think that you just like taking pops at people.

Classy."

God your not very good at this

Why did I comment ?? Think I’ve told you twice already ( please scroll up )

Also pointing out a ridiculously stupid comment I’m my opinion isn’t being a troll. If it is I apologise, but think maybe your just a little sensitive

I was under the impression that starting an argument on purpose or being provocative intentionally was being a troll, again if I’m wrong I would gladly apologise

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"There is no doubt he believed the post-war future was one of European integration.

Whether he would recognise that integration today, or support it, well I have no idea, honestly.

Wow you honestly don’t know what the thoughts are today of a man who died 50 odd years ago

Really? Wow and thank you for being honest

You really are one of a kind aren’t you.

You could have at least tried to add something to the thread to move it along instead of just picking on the poster.

Lol ahh the loonies, no I had nothing to add, but let such a stupid comment go by, not a chance

Or more likely. This doesn’t fit with what you want think but you are afraid that your ignorance of the issue will ultimately embarrass you. Best tactic therefore is to attack the poster.

In any rational mind this is a reasonable statement.

“There is no doubt he believed the post-war future was one of European integration.

Whether he would recognise that integration today, or support it, well I have no idea, honestly.”

Factually correct - he was in support of European integration

Factually correct - would he support the current levels of integration? Who knows. We can only know what he thought at the time."

He was in support of our joining an ECONOMIC Community. As far asI'm aware, he never said anything in support of us joining a political union.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

He was in support of our joining an ECONOMIC Community. As far asI'm aware, he never said anything in support of us joining a political union."

Churchill was the first person to propose a European Army.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lol ahh the loonies, no I had nothing to add, but let such a stupid comment go by, not a chance"

Moaning as usual eh PG?

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By *retty GoodMan
over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

"Lol ahh the loonies, no I had nothing to add, but let such a stupid comment go by, not a chance

Moaning as usual eh PG?"

Urrrmm not sure that was moaning was it ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There is no doubt he believed the post-war future was one of European integration.

Whether he would recognise that integration today, or support it, well I have no idea, honestly.

Wow you honestly don’t know what the thoughts are today of a man who died 50 odd years ago

Really? Wow and thank you for being honest

You really are one of a kind aren’t you.

You could have at least tried to add something to the thread to move it along instead of just picking on the poster.

Lol ahh the loonies, no I had nothing to add, but let such a stupid comment go by, not a chance

Or more likely. This doesn’t fit with what you want think but you are afraid that your ignorance of the issue will ultimately embarrass you. Best tactic therefore is to attack the poster.

In any rational mind this is a reasonable statement.

“There is no doubt he believed the post-war future was one of European integration.

Whether he would recognise that integration today, or support it, well I have no idea, honestly.”

Factually correct - he was in support of European integration

Factually correct - would he support the current levels of integration? Who knows. We can only know what he thought at the time.

“Or more likely. This doesn’t fit with what you want think but you are afraid that your ignorance of the issue will ultimately embarrass you. Best tactic therefore is to attack the poster.”

Do you really think I care what somebody said who died over 50 odd years ago ?? Lol no I pointed out a massively stupid comment

Feel free to twist it or spin it again that’s fine

But boils down to my comments was about the post not the topic of the thread

Ahhh the loony left, love not hates guys come on "

I've read this block of text twice and I'm still trying to figure out what this "massively stupid comment" actually was.

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By *retty GoodMan
over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

[Removed by poster at 25/08/19 00:03:24]

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By *retty GoodMan
over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

"There is no doubt he believed the post-war future was one of European integration.

Whether he would recognise that integration today, or support it, well I have no idea, honestly.

Wow you honestly don’t know what the thoughts are today of a man who died 50 odd years ago

Really? Wow and thank you for being honest

You really are one of a kind aren’t you.

You could have at least tried to add something to the thread to move it along instead of just picking on the poster.

Lol ahh the loonies, no I had nothing to add, but let such a stupid comment go by, not a chance

Or more likely. This doesn’t fit with what you want think but you are afraid that your ignorance of the issue will ultimately embarrass you. Best tactic therefore is to attack the poster.

In any rational mind this is a reasonable statement.

“There is no doubt he believed the post-war future was one of European integration.

Whether he would recognise that integration today, or support it, well I have no idea, honestly.”

Factually correct - he was in support of European integration

Factually correct - would he support the current levels of integration? Who knows. We can only know what he thought at the time.

“Or more likely. This doesn’t fit with what you want think but you are afraid that your ignorance of the issue will ultimately embarrass you. Best tactic therefore is to attack the poster.”

Do you really think I care what somebody said who died over 50 odd years ago ?? Lol no I pointed out a massively stupid comment

Feel free to twist it or spin it again that’s fine

But boils down to my comments was about the post not the topic of the thread

Ahhh the loony left, love not hates guys come on

I've read this block of text twice and I'm still trying to figure out what this "massively stupid comment" actually was. "

Right up the top and to be fair massively stupid isn’t correct, maybe really silly or slightly stupid would be a better description

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

##There is no doubt he believed the post-war future was one of European integration.

Whether he would recognise that integration today, or support it, well I have no idea, honestly.##

If that's it then it makes perfect sense to me...

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"To keep the peace after the war, does it mean that brexiters dont respect his wish to be there? I wonder what he would think of brexit? No doubt the biggest mistake ever done

no the biggest mistake was joining the pile of shite in the first place "

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

I feel Churchill may well have approved the Common Market as it was and what we signed up to the EU is a very different animal.

To think he would have approved the Eu as it is now is crazy as the Eu is about destroying national identity.To even suggest that Churchill would have approved of the EU is an insult to a great man.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

He was in support of our joining an ECONOMIC Community. As far asI'm aware, he never said anything in support of us joining a political union.

Churchill was the first person to propose a European Army.

Think you will find that George Patton beat him to it.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"I feel Churchill may well have approved the Common Market as it was and what we signed up to the EU is a very different animal.

To think he would have approved the Eu as it is now is crazy as the Eu is about destroying national identity.To even suggest that Churchill would have approved of the EU is an insult to a great man.

Where do you get your idea that the EU is about “destroying national identity”? That is a self justification theory of the very highest order.

Take a one hour flight out of the U.K. to the west, to the south and to the east and you will find it hard to compare any of three experiences to what you have at home. Four different cultures, four identities, four different experiences.

The ideas that some people come up with in their heads to justify a completely false concept is just outrageous.

The European Union is the largest and most successful political and economic union in the world. The expression that together, everyone achieves more has never been more appropriate than it is today and like a bunch of tinpot Nationalist goblins, we are marching out of there snarling and sneering because, because, because... well we are British goddamit.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I feel Churchill may well have approved the Common Market as it was and what we signed up to the EU is a very different animal.

To think he would have approved the Eu as it is now is crazy as the Eu is about destroying national identity.To even suggest that Churchill would have approved of the EU is an insult to a great man.

Where do you get your idea that the EU is about “destroying national identity”? That is a self justification theory of the very highest order.

The ideas that some people come up with in their heads to justify a completely false concept is just outrageous.

This or... Some people have a very fragile sense of national identity.

As far as I can see, brexit has highlighted that there is no national identity that fits any two people.

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By *teveuk77Man
over a year ago

"I feel Churchill may well have approved the Common Market as it was and what we signed up to the EU is a very different animal.

To think he would have approved the Eu as it is now is crazy as the Eu is about destroying national identity.To even suggest that Churchill would have approved of the EU is an insult to a great man.

Did you know him well?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I feel Churchill may well have approved the Common Market as it was and what we signed up to the EU is a very different animal.

To think he would have approved the Eu as it is now is crazy as the Eu is about destroying national identity.To even suggest that Churchill would have approved of the EU is an insult to a great man.

You could be right but you could also be totally wrong

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By *retty GoodMan
over a year ago

Cardiff Bay

"I feel Churchill may well have approved the Common Market as it was and what we signed up to the EU is a very different animal.

To think he would have approved the Eu as it is now is crazy as the Eu is about destroying national identity.To even suggest that Churchill would have approved of the EU is an insult to a great man.

You could be right but you could also be totally wrong

Welcome to the world of opinion, that’s how it works

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Fast forward to 1946 and his speech at the University of Zurich in 1946:

Then he lost the next election

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There is no doubt he believed the post-war future was one of European integration.

Whether he would recognise that integration today, or support it, well I have no idea, honestly.

Wow you honestly don’t know what the thoughts are today of a man who died 50 odd years ago

Really? Wow and thank you for being honest

You really are one of a kind aren’t you.

You could have at least tried to add something to the thread to move it along instead of just picking on the poster.

Lol ahh the loonies, no I had nothing to add, but let such a stupid comment go by, not a chance

Or more likely. This doesn’t fit with what you want think but you are afraid that your ignorance of the issue will ultimately embarrass you. Best tactic therefore is to attack the poster.

In any rational mind this is a reasonable statement.

“There is no doubt he believed the post-war future was one of European integration.

Whether he would recognise that integration today, or support it, well I have no idea, honestly.”

Factually correct - he was in support of European integration

Factually correct - would he support the current levels of integration? Who knows. We can only know what he thought at the time.

“Or more likely. This doesn’t fit with what you want think but you are afraid that your ignorance of the issue will ultimately embarrass you. Best tactic therefore is to attack the poster.”

Do you really think I care what somebody said who died over 50 odd years ago ?? Lol no I pointed out a massively stupid comment

Feel free to twist it or spin it again that’s fine

But boils down to my comments was about the post not the topic of the thread

Ahhh the loony left, love not hates guys come on

I've read this block of text twice and I'm still trying to figure out what this "massively stupid comment" actually was.

Right up the top and to be fair massively stupid isn’t correct, maybe really silly or slightly stupid would be a better description "

Disagree, I think it was stating the obvious in a way that bebunks the entire thread. So a really good point. No one has a clue what Churchill would have thought so the thread is pointless

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"Fast forward to 1946 and his speech at the University of Zurich in 1946:

Then he lost the next election

Yes, he is remembered as a good PM when faced with an existential threat. No-one has much good to say about his peacetime politics.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To keep the peace after the war, does it mean that brexiters dont respect his wish to be there? I wonder what he would think of brexit? No doubt the biggest mistake ever done

Allow me to rephrase your question.

Do 17.4 million citizens of the UK disagree with the view of one former Prime Minister?

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"Fast forward to 1946 and his speech at the University of Zurich in 1946:

Then he lost the next election

But bounced straight back after 5 years of Labour austerity.

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By *evil_u_knowMan
over a year ago

city

He also wanted to use chemical weapons on India, and lesser humans.

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

""If Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea."

Winston S Churchill.

We are with Europe, but not of it.

Winston S Churchill.

Doesn't sound like a raving Europhile to me.

He wrote that in 1930."

And on 29th November 1951, as Prime Minister, he wrote;

"Our attitude towards further economic developments on the Schuman lines resembles that which we adopt about the European Army. We help, we dedicate, we play a part, but we are not merged with and do not forfeit our insular or Commonwealth character…. It is only when plans for uniting Europe take a federal form that we ourselves cannot take part, because we cannot subordinate ourselves or the control of British policy to federal authorities."

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

He was in support of our joining an ECONOMIC Community. As far asI'm aware, he never said anything in support of us joining a political union.

Churchill was the first person to propose a European Army.

In a speech to the House of Commons in 1952, Churchill said;

"We are not members of the European Defence Community, nor do we intend to be merged in a Federal European system. We feel we have a special relation to both. This can be expressed by prepositions, by the preposition ‘with’ but not ‘of’ — we are with them, but not of them."

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"Fast forward to 1946 and his speech at the University of Zurich in 1946:

He went on to say, in the same speech;

"Great Britain, the British Commonwealth of Nations, mighty America, and I trust Soviet Russia, for then indeed all would be well, must be the friends and sponsors of the new Europe and must champion its right to live and shine."

And in 1948, in a speech in the Commons-

"In our European Movement we have worked with federalists, and we have always made it clear that, although they are moving along the same road, we are not committed to their conclusions.’

He went on to say;

"A Federal solution could not work because a Parliament of Europe is quite impracticable’.

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