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"Fail to prepare,prepare to fail." . What a pity the conservative government didn't follow this advice before announcing a referendum | |||
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"Fail to prepare,prepare to fail." Lol if you genuinely think the UK government or UK business or UK borders are prepared, then prepare to discover failure | |||
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"It funny how Boris and his motley crew are finding money for a no deal Brexit but anything else there is no money for. " Paid for by future generations through additional borrowing. So today's Brexiteers are loading the bill onto tomorrow's taxpayers, to reclaim something they never lost in order to give up everything they have. Totally bonkers. | |||
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"It funny how Boris and his motley crew are finding money for a no deal Brexit but anything else there is no money for. Paid for by future generations through additional borrowing. So today's Brexiteers are loading the bill onto tomorrow's taxpayers, to reclaim something they never lost in order to give up everything they have. Totally bonkers. " And Corbyn's answer is? Oh yes, borrow a shit load of money, spunk it down the drain, and let future generations pick up the tab. Boris's 2/5/10 billion is a mere drop in the ocean by comparison. | |||
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"the next generation to pay it off??! isnt that what most goverments do? who do you think had to help pay the ladt labour balls up off? thats right the generation who had fuck all to do with it.every goverment saddles somone else with debt its not just a tory thing.if the lbs ever get power they will do the same.and if the greens get in who knows how much taxpayers cash they will spunk up the wall?? they all do it just some on here think its only the tories.and no im not a torie if i was gona vote it would be the raving loony party at least they would put a smille on ya face" I wouldn't bother voting you'll be complicit in the disaster that's unfolding .At present you have plausible deniability .You can tell your grandchildren you had fuck all to do with it. | |||
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"the next generation to pay it off??! isnt that what most goverments do? who do you think had to help pay the ladt labour balls up off? thats right the generation who had fuck all to do with it.every goverment saddles somone else with debt its not just a tory thing.if the lbs ever get power they will do the same.and if the greens get in who knows how much taxpayers cash they will spunk up the wall?? they all do it just some on here think its only the tories.and no im not a torie if i was gona vote it would be the raving loony party at least they would put a smille on ya face" The last two Conservative chancellors have borrowed more money than every single Labour government in history combined. They are still at it. | |||
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"The last two Conservative chancellors have borrowed more money than every single Labour government in history combined. They are still at it. " What are your numbers to prove this claim. | |||
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"the next generation to pay it off??! isnt that what most goverments do? who do you think had to help pay the ladt labour balls up off? thats right the generation who had fuck all to do with it.every goverment saddles somone else with debt its not just a tory thing.if the lbs ever get power they will do the same.and if the greens get in who knows how much taxpayers cash they will spunk up the wall?? they all do it just some on here think its only the tories.and no im not a torie if i was gona vote it would be the raving loony party at least they would put a smille on ya face The last two Conservative chancellors have borrowed more money than every single Labour government in history combined. They are still at it. " Not sure you are right about this actually. It was in the era of James III in the 17th Century or thereabouts when records began. There have been a few times in history where debt to GDP exceeded 200% - Napoleonic Wars, the two World Wars being just three examples. In pure monetary term you are right that the debt has gone from around £0.5 trillion in 2005 to a now reducing £1.85 trillion or that ball park. | |||
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"Do we have running total fir the cost of brexit. It's funny that the right wing loonies in the forum harp on about fiscal responsibility and how labour are terribly irresponsible with the public purse Yet they'll drain every last penny from the purse for their xenophobic myopic brexit agenda.., Utter cocks!!! "It was at around £600 million a week since the referendum but that was a while ago now and we've continued with sustained investment loss since  | |||
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"No finance director would spend £2.1 bn to mitigate a risk to his business that the boss set at 1,000,000-1. The bookmakers will give you odds of 2-1 on a bad Brexit. Johnson's strategy seems clear - depict himself as the person so full of optimism about leaving with an agreement that he can blame everyone outside the UK for its failure to happen. The EU and Dublin to blame for the UK leaving the EU - who'd have thunk it. " After all this time on here you do not understand what Brexit is about.This is about democracy not business.Ok I know your not very democratic but most of us are | |||
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"No finance director would spend £2.1 bn to mitigate a risk to his business that the boss set at 1,000,000-1. The bookmakers will give you odds of 2-1 on a bad Brexit. Johnson's strategy seems clear - depict himself as the person so full of optimism about leaving with an agreement that he can blame everyone outside the UK for its failure to happen. The EU and Dublin to blame for the UK leaving the EU - who'd have thunk it. "
The concept is beyond idiotic | |||
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"No finance director would spend £2.1 bn to mitigate a risk to his business that the boss set at 1,000,000-1. The bookmakers will give you odds of 2-1 on a bad Brexit. Johnson's strategy seems clear - depict himself as the person so full of optimism about leaving with an agreement that he can blame everyone outside the UK for its failure to happen. The EU and Dublin to blame for the UK leaving the EU - who'd have thunk it. After all this time on here you do not understand what Brexit is about.This is about democracy not business.Ok I know your not very democratic but most of us are" It is absolutely not about democracy It's about I dont like following rules Jonny foreigner has jointly devised And I dont like hearing voices I can't understand And total ignorance or greed depending upon one's bank balance ie if you need to work its ignorance , if you dont its greed | |||
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"No finance director would spend £2.1 bn to mitigate a risk to his business that the boss set at 1,000,000-1. The bookmakers will give you odds of 2-1 on a bad Brexit. Johnson's strategy seems clear - depict himself as the person so full of optimism about leaving with an agreement that he can blame everyone outside the UK for its failure to happen. The EU and Dublin to blame for the UK leaving the EU - who'd have thunk it. After all this time on here you do not understand what Brexit is about.This is about democracy not business.Ok I know your not very democratic but most of us are It is absolutely not about democracy It's about I dont like following rules Jonny foreigner has jointly devised And I dont like hearing voices I can't understand And total ignorance or greed depending upon one's bank balance ie if you need to work its ignorance , if you dont its greed " However it’s worded the result is still the same | |||
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"An appropriate referendum would have people to vote for remain/no deal and those picking no deal would also agree to have their taxes increased, to ensure that leavers pay for all of the costs ever accrued due to leaving are paid for by them, through increased taxation and required payments to settle the bill. Obviously interest accrues until repaid, at a rate above the English Student Loans repayment rate." Lol... blue sky thinking | |||
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" After all this time on here you do not understand what Brexit is about.This is about democracy not business.Ok I know your not very democratic but most of us are" Good luck trying to eat your flag. | |||
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"No finance director would spend £2.1 bn to mitigate a risk to his business that the boss set at 1,000,000-1. The bookmakers will give you odds of 2-1 on a bad Brexit. Johnson's strategy seems clear - depict himself as the person so full of optimism about leaving with an agreement that he can blame everyone outside the UK for its failure to happen. The EU and Dublin to blame for the UK leaving the EU - who'd have thunk it. After all this time on here you do not understand what Brexit is about.This is about democracy not business.Ok I know your not very democratic but most of us are" Delivering brexit may be argued as being about democracy. But the reasons for brexiting aren't... (bar the while arent the EU undemocratic type arguments) | |||
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"It is the first time in my lifetime that any Government has knowingly pursued a policy that that will cause economic damage and make the country poorer. Anyone recall any other example? " Narrative twisted ..... 
The electorate were consulted, the electorate decided.
Hardly government policy being forced upon us, as you would have us believe
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"The question stands. You appear to have no examples to compare. " The question is totally irrelevant and has no basis | |||
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"I do realise a majority voted to leave the European Union. That isn't what my question was about. The Government is choosing to do it in a way that it knows will cause economic damage and make the country poorer. Has a Government in your lifetime ever knowingly done anything like that? " I say again, it’s an irrelevant question as the basis upon which you have made it is a wrong interpretation of the state of affairs . | |||
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"I do realise a majority voted to leave the European Union. That isn't what my question was about. The Government is choosing to do it in a way that it knows will cause economic damage and make the country poorer. Has a Government in your lifetime ever knowingly done anything like that? " I suppose they think it'll work out fine, perhaps ill deserved confidence in their abilities... time will tell. As for finding the magic money tree, seems true that austerity was a political choice, rather 5han expedience. If it all goes tits up the toffs, privileged few with offshore bank accounts will ensure the least well off will carry the can | |||
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"It is the first time in my lifetime that any Government has knowingly pursued a policy that that will cause economic damage and make the country poorer. Anyone recall any other example? Narrative twisted .....
The electorate were consulted, the electorate decided.
Hardly government policy being forced upon us, as you would have us believe
"She didn't say it was forced upon us, though it is being forced upon those that didn't want it  | |||
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"I do realise a majority voted to leave the European Union. That isn't what my question was about. The Government is choosing to do it in a way that it knows will cause economic damage and make the country poorer. Has a Government in your lifetime ever knowingly done anything like that? I say again, it’s an irrelevant question as the basis upon which you have made it is a wrong interpretation of the state of affairs . " No, I'd say it's a totally valid question but you just don't want to acknowledge it's a damaging process
The question is valid in my view because the official leave campaign promised everything would be easy, vote Leave and we'll dictate the terms because they need us more then we need them etc etc etc which up till now has been totally wrong so perusing this form of no deal wasn't what people voted for. | |||
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"I do realise a majority voted to leave the European Union. That isn't what my question was about. The Government is choosing to do it in a way that it knows will cause economic damage and make the country poorer. Has a Government in your lifetime ever knowingly done anything like that? I say again, it’s an irrelevant question as the basis upon which you have made it is a wrong interpretation of the state of affairs . No, I'd say it's a totally valid question but you just don't want to acknowledge it's a damaging process
The question is valid in my view because the official leave campaign promised everything would be easy, vote Leave and we'll dictate the terms because they need us more then we need them etc etc etc which up till now has been totally wrong so perusing this form of no deal wasn't what people voted for. "But there was always the chance that we would exit with no withdrawal agreement | |||
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"I do realise a majority voted to leave the European Union. That isn't what my question was about. The Government is choosing to do it in a way that it knows will cause economic damage and make the country poorer. Has a Government in your lifetime ever knowingly done anything like that? I say again, it’s an irrelevant question as the basis upon which you have made it is a wrong interpretation of the state of affairs . No, I'd say it's a totally valid question but you just don't want to acknowledge it's a damaging process
The question is valid in my view because the official leave campaign promised everything would be easy, vote Leave and we'll dictate the terms because they need us more then we need them etc etc etc which up till now has been totally wrong so perusing this form of no deal wasn't what people voted for.
But there was always the chance that we would exit with no withdrawal agreement"Was that possibility ever given life during the leave campaign? I don't think it was  | |||
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"I do realise a majority voted to leave the European Union. That isn't what my question was about. The Government is choosing to do it in a way that it knows will cause economic damage and make the country poorer. Has a Government in your lifetime ever knowingly done anything like that? I say again, it’s an irrelevant question as the basis upon which you have made it is a wrong interpretation of the state of affairs . No, I'd say it's a totally valid question but you just don't want to acknowledge it's a damaging process
The question is valid in my view because the official leave campaign promised everything would be easy, vote Leave and we'll dictate the terms because they need us more then we need them etc etc etc which up till now has been totally wrong so perusing this form of no deal wasn't what people voted for.
But there was always the chance that we would exit with no withdrawal agreement
Was that possibility ever given life during the leave campaign? I don't think it was "Was it only Leave campaigning? Government stated that we could leave without a withdrawal agreement.. | |||
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"I do realise a majority voted to leave the European Union. That isn't what my question was about. The Government is choosing to do it in a way that it knows will cause economic damage and make the country poorer. Has a Government in your lifetime ever knowingly done anything like that? I say again, it’s an irrelevant question as the basis upon which you have made it is a wrong interpretation of the state of affairs . No, I'd say it's a totally valid question but you just don't want to acknowledge it's a damaging process
The question is valid in my view because the official leave campaign promised everything would be easy, vote Leave and we'll dictate the terms because they need us more then we need them etc etc etc which up till now has been totally wrong so perusing this form of no deal wasn't what people voted for.
But there was always the chance that we would exit with no withdrawal agreement
Was that possibility ever given life during the leave campaign? I don't think it was
Was it only Leave campaigning?
Government stated that we could leave without a withdrawal agreement..
"That was campaigning to remain lol not leave | |||
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"Show me where it said that. You folks really are re-writing history. Anyone who suggested we might be worse off was trashed. Repeatedly. Constantly. Project Fear, you called it. Over and over again." Very very true, especially about rewriting history | |||
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"Show me where it said that. You folks really are re-writing history. Anyone who suggested we might be worse off was trashed. Repeatedly. Constantly. Project Fear, you called it. Over and over again." Have a search and read of the government paper, "The process for withdrawing from the European Union" | |||
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"Show me where it said that. You folks really are re-writing history. Anyone who suggested we might be worse off was trashed. Repeatedly. Constantly. Project Fear, you called it. Over and over again. Have a search and read of the government paper, "The process for withdrawing from the European Union" " The discussion is about what was campaigned and voted for mate as you well know and not a bloody document that probably 99% of the population has never seen, nice try though lol | |||
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"Show me where it said that. You folks really are re-writing history. Anyone who suggested we might be worse off was trashed. Repeatedly. Constantly. Project Fear, you called it. Over and over again. Have a search and read of the government paper, "The process for withdrawing from the European Union" The discussion is about what was campaigned and voted for mate as you well know and not a bloody document that probably 99% of the population has never seen, nice try though lol "I get what the discussion is about . To say that the government is somehow doing the leaving in a way we weren’t expecting or would not want to is not correct, as they laid out in advance what could happen in the event of the electorate deciding to leave, and indeed also what may happen if it was not possible to leave with a withdrawal agreement. | |||
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"Show me where it said that. You folks really are re-writing history. Anyone who suggested we might be worse off was trashed. Repeatedly. Constantly. Project Fear, you called it. Over and over again. Have a search and read of the government paper, "The process for withdrawing from the European Union" " Isnt anything from HM T classed as project fear and dismissed? Wto impact per person (2016 est HMT) 2.1k Most recent (FT) c 1k pa plus any one off costs So while its overstated (often is IMO) its still quite a cost. | |||
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"I predict a riot. Starting in Belfast. Then Scotland. Then England's cities. I look forward to hearing how people were forewarned of that, too. Bring it on - the nation state is about to implode." Might start on the M20 given the frustration of that contraflow https://www.kentlive.news/news/kent-news/lorry-drivers-face-300-fine-3158353.amp | |||
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"It is the first time in my lifetime that any Government has knowingly pursued a policy that that will cause economic damage and make the country poorer. Anyone recall any other example? " The Scottish Government, 2014. Now, I understand they are a government in name only but leaving the UK will harm Scotland's economy. That said, not catastrophically (now, for sure). That's why I voted Yes in 2014. I understood leaving the EU and the UK would be economically harmful; but I felt it was a price worth paying. Why? I want to live in an actual democracy, like the Germans; not a travesty of one like the UK. Being hostage to the will of politicians who are, more often than not, inclined to ignore the needs of my country is a real burden. Bottom line, I want a change of Union for Scotland. EU, not UK. It's the better option. For those who say being part of the EU wouldn't be true independence; fair enough - but we have no independence at all right now. Obviously, people will tell me I'm mistaken. IDGAF | |||
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"Show me where it said that. You folks really are re-writing history. Anyone who suggested we might be worse off was trashed. Repeatedly. Constantly. Project Fear, you called it. Over and over again. Have a search and read of the government paper, "The process for withdrawing from the European Union" " I don't remember you people advising people to look closely at the facts in 2016. Quite the opposite. | |||
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"It is the first time in my lifetime that any Government has knowingly pursued a policy that that will cause economic damage and make the country poorer. Anyone recall any other example? The Scottish Government, 2014. Now, I understand they are a government in name only but leaving the UK will harm Scotland's economy. That said, not catastrophically (now, for sure). That's why I voted Yes in 2014. I understood leaving the EU and the UK would be economically harmful; but I felt it was a price worth paying. Why? I want to live in an actual democracy, like the Germans; not a travesty of one like the UK. Being hostage to the will of politicians who are, more often than not, inclined to ignore the needs of my country is a real burden. Bottom line, I want a change of Union for Scotland. EU, not UK. It's the better option. For those who say being part of the EU wouldn't be true independence; fair enough - but we have no independence at all right now. Obviously, people will tell me I'm mistaken. IDGAF" That's true. Turned out to be a dress rehearsal for the UK/EU arguments. Scotland understood the economic consequences better than England did. It changes the whole basis of the discussion about Scotland. Indyref2 | |||
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"Show me where it said that. You folks really are re-writing history. Anyone who suggested we might be worse off was trashed. Repeatedly. Constantly. Project Fear, you called it. Over and over again. Have a search and read of the government paper, "The process for withdrawing from the European Union" I don't remember you people advising people to look closely at the facts in 2016. Quite the opposite. " Government sent out information to everyone | |||
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"Show me where it said that. You folks really are re-writing history. Anyone who suggested we might be worse off was trashed. Repeatedly. Constantly. Project Fear, you called it. Over and over again. Have a search and read of the government paper, "The process for withdrawing from the European Union" I don't remember you people advising people to look closely at the facts in 2016. Quite the opposite. Government sent out information to everyone " Was called propoganda. Dismissed as project fear. Its symptomatic of politics now. Dismiss every thing as fake news with no interest in showing counter evidence. Or is the claim people read all this, and made a considered opinion? | |||
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"Show me where it said that. You folks really are re-writing history. Anyone who suggested we might be worse off was trashed. Repeatedly. Constantly. Project Fear, you called it. Over and over again. Have a search and read of the government paper, "The process for withdrawing from the European Union" I don't remember you people advising people to look closely at the facts in 2016. Quite the opposite. Government sent out information to everyone Was called propoganda. Dismissed as project fear. Its symptomatic of politics now. Dismiss every thing as fake news with no interest in showing counter evidence. Or is the claim people read all this, and made a considered opinion? " Propaganda on why we should remain ? The government leaflet was the case to remain... Can’t say we weren’t given information .. if people chose not to read it, that’s up to them . | |||
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"Show me where it said that. You folks really are re-writing history. Anyone who suggested we might be worse off was trashed. Repeatedly. Constantly. Project Fear, you called it. Over and over again. Have a search and read of the government paper, "The process for withdrawing from the European Union" I don't remember you people advising people to look closely at the facts in 2016. Quite the opposite. Government sent out information to everyone " You are Andrea Leadsom and I collect my free "Get Out of Jail" card | |||
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"Show me where it said that. You folks really are re-writing history. Anyone who suggested we might be worse off was trashed. Repeatedly. Constantly. Project Fear, you called it. Over and over again. Have a search and read of the government paper, "The process for withdrawing from the European Union" I don't remember you people advising people to look closely at the facts in 2016. Quite the opposite. Government sent out information to everyone You are Andrea Leadsom and I collect my free "Get Out of Jail" card "We are all in it together | |||
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" We are all in it together "You're on your own. Good luck! | |||
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"The leaflet was (and still is) called propoganda by leavers. Just start a thread on leave campaign overspending. While i agree people should read it, imo i expect politicians and the like not to dismiss it as lies and fear just because it does not suit their agenda. The big downside was dismissed. NI was ignored. Sounds like we arr saying peiple chose not to know what they were voting for!! " Either way... we can't now say "they didnt tell us" | |||
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" We are all in it together
You're on your own.
Good luck!"You're leaving the UK? | |||
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" We are all in it together
You're on your own.
Good luck!
You're leaving the UK?"Dunno yet. Opportunities are opening up in front of my eyes. I have been waiting 5 years for the cards to fall into place. The first card fell into place yesterday. If all all 5 cards fall, the world opens up in front of my eyes. | |||
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"The leaflet was (and still is) called propoganda by leavers. Just start a thread on leave campaign overspending. While i agree people should read it, imo i expect politicians and the like not to dismiss it as lies and fear just because it does not suit their agenda. The big downside was dismissed. NI was ignored. Sounds like we arr saying peiple chose not to know what they were voting for!! " People say they knew what they were voting for as and when circumstances change and they keep saying "that's what I voted for" even if it wasn't discussed for a year after voting | |||
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"Er, if there's no deal, then we won't be paying £39 billion to the EU - so, of course, there'll be no problem finding £2.1 billion. "If we ever want to get a trade deal with the EU, we'll be paying what we owe. | |||
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"The leaflet was (and still is) called propoganda by leavers. Just start a thread on leave campaign overspending. While i agree people should read it, imo i expect politicians and the like not to dismiss it as lies and fear just because it does not suit their agenda. The big downside was dismissed. NI was ignored. Sounds like we arr saying peiple chose not to know what they were voting for!! Either way... we can't now say "they didnt tell us"" There is no mandate for a no deal. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49165836 | |||
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"The leaflet was (and still is) called propoganda by leavers. Just start a thread on leave campaign overspending. While i agree people should read it, imo i expect politicians and the like not to dismiss it as lies and fear just because it does not suit their agenda. The big downside was dismissed. NI was ignored. Sounds like we arr saying peiple chose not to know what they were voting for!! Either way... we can't now say "they didnt tell us" There is no mandate for a no deal. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49165836 " We were given the possible outcomes | |||
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"The leaflet was (and still is) called propoganda by leavers. Just start a thread on leave campaign overspending. While i agree people should read it, imo i expect politicians and the like not to dismiss it as lies and fear just because it does not suit their agenda. The big downside was dismissed. NI was ignored. Sounds like we arr saying peiple chose not to know what they were voting for!! Either way... we can't now say "they didnt tell us" There is no mandate for a no deal. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49165836 We were given the possible outcomes " Did you read the link? | |||
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"The leaflet was (and still is) called propoganda by leavers. Just start a thread on leave campaign overspending. While i agree people should read it, imo i expect politicians and the like not to dismiss it as lies and fear just because it does not suit their agenda. The big downside was dismissed. NI was ignored. Sounds like we arr saying peiple chose not to know what they were voting for!! Either way... we can't now say "they didnt tell us" There is no mandate for a no deal. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49165836 We were given the possible outcomes Did you read the link?" Yes | |||
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"The leaflet was (and still is) called propoganda by leavers. Just start a thread on leave campaign overspending. While i agree people should read it, imo i expect politicians and the like not to dismiss it as lies and fear just because it does not suit their agenda. The big downside was dismissed. NI was ignored. Sounds like we arr saying peiple chose not to know what they were voting for!! Either way... we can't now say "they didnt tell us" There is no mandate for a no deal. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49165836 We were given the possible outcomes Did you read the link? Yes" So, you think claiming there was going to be an easy deal 99.999% of the time vs a 0.001% acknowledgement there might a tiny chance of a crash out constitutes a mandate? If that's how you read election manifestos no wonder you have such an odd sense of democracy. "The closest we have been able to find to an acceptance that there might not be [a deal] was on 2 March 2016. That was the day the Treasury released a report looking at a number of Brexit scenarios and concluding that a no-deal or "WTO Brexit" was the most damaging option for the UK economy." | |||
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"The leaflet was (and still is) called propoganda by leavers. Just start a thread on leave campaign overspending. While i agree people should read it, imo i expect politicians and the like not to dismiss it as lies and fear just because it does not suit their agenda. The big downside was dismissed. NI was ignored. Sounds like we arr saying peiple chose not to know what they were voting for!! Either way... we can't now say "they didnt tell us" There is no mandate for a no deal. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49165836 We were given the possible outcomes Did you read the link? Yes So, you think claiming there was going to be an easy deal 99.999% of the time vs a 0.001% acknowledgement there might a tiny chance of a crash out constitutes a mandate? If that's how you read election manifestos no wonder you have such an odd sense of democracy. "The closest we have been able to find to an acceptance that there might not be [a deal] was on 2 March 2016. That was the day the Treasury released a report looking at a number of Brexit scenarios and concluding that a no-deal or "WTO Brexit" was the most damaging option for the UK economy." " I tend not to believe a great deal of what the BBC churns out, whether it’s broadcast or online. How did you arrive at the %age figures you claim? | |||
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"The leaflet was (and still is) called propoganda by leavers. Just start a thread on leave campaign overspending. While i agree people should read it, imo i expect politicians and the like not to dismiss it as lies and fear just because it does not suit their agenda. The big downside was dismissed. NI was ignored. Sounds like we arr saying peiple chose not to know what they were voting for!! Either way... we can't now say "they didnt tell us" There is no mandate for a no deal. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49165836 We were given the possible outcomes Did you read the link? Yes So, you think claiming there was going to be an easy deal 99.999% of the time vs a 0.001% acknowledgement there might a tiny chance of a crash out constitutes a mandate? If that's how you read election manifestos no wonder you have such an odd sense of democracy. "The closest we have been able to find to an acceptance that there might not be [a deal] was on 2 March 2016. That was the day the Treasury released a report looking at a number of Brexit scenarios and concluding that a no-deal or "WTO Brexit" was the most damaging option for the UK economy." " Did you read the leaflet that was delivered to every door by the government ? it said what would happen if we left with no deal people still voted to leave. | |||
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"The leaflet was (and still is) called propoganda by leavers. Just start a thread on leave campaign overspending. While i agree people should read it, imo i expect politicians and the like not to dismiss it as lies and fear just because it does not suit their agenda. The big downside was dismissed. NI was ignored. Sounds like we arr saying peiple chose not to know what they were voting for!! Either way... we can't now say "they didnt tell us" There is no mandate for a no deal. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49165836 We were given the possible outcomes Did you read the link? Yes So, you think claiming there was going to be an easy deal 99.999% of the time vs a 0.001% acknowledgement there might a tiny chance of a crash out constitutes a mandate? If that's how you read election manifestos no wonder you have such an odd sense of democracy. "The closest we have been able to find to an acceptance that there might not be [a deal] was on 2 March 2016. That was the day the Treasury released a report looking at a number of Brexit scenarios and concluding that a no-deal or "WTO Brexit" was the most damaging option for the UK economy." I tend not to believe a great deal of what the BBC churns out, whether it’s broadcast or online. How did you arrive at the %age figures you claim? " So, you lied and didn't read the link? Did you believe Raab writing in the Telegraph when he said:"the idea that the EU would erect trade barriers after Brexit was not remotely credible"? Did you believe Gove when he told the Daily Mail in March this year: "We didn't vote to leave without a deal. That wasn't the message of the campaign I helped lead. During that campaign, we said we should do a deal with the EU and be part of the network of free trade deals that covers all Europe, from Iceland to Turkey." These are their own words on sites off the BBC. Honestly, if you can't see through this sh*t you're clearly ideologically driven or simply niaive. | |||
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"Suddenly its a document of fact? Tbis forum would have you believe it was one sided propoganda supporting project fear. Dont let them hear yiu call it something they should have read and beliwwd" mmmmm ? | |||
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"The leaflet was (and still is) called propoganda by leavers. Just start a thread on leave campaign overspending. While i agree people should read it, imo i expect politicians and the like not to dismiss it as lies and fear just because it does not suit their agenda. The big downside was dismissed. NI was ignored. Sounds like we arr saying peiple chose not to know what they were voting for!! Either way... we can't now say "they didnt tell us" There is no mandate for a no deal. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49165836 We were given the possible outcomes Did you read the link? Yes So, you think claiming there was going to be an easy deal 99.999% of the time vs a 0.001% acknowledgement there might a tiny chance of a crash out constitutes a mandate? If that's how you read election manifestos no wonder you have such an odd sense of democracy. "The closest we have been able to find to an acceptance that there might not be [a deal] was on 2 March 2016. That was the day the Treasury released a report looking at a number of Brexit scenarios and concluding that a no-deal or "WTO Brexit" was the most damaging option for the UK economy." I tend not to believe a great deal of what the BBC churns out, whether it’s broadcast or online. How did you arrive at the %age figures you claim? So, you lied and didn't read the link? Did you believe Raab writing in the Telegraph when he said:"the idea that the EU would erect trade barriers after Brexit was not remotely credible"? Did you believe Gove when he told the Daily Mail in March this year: "We didn't vote to leave without a deal. That wasn't the message of the campaign I helped lead. During that campaign, we said we should do a deal with the EU and be part of the network of free trade deals that covers all Europe, from Iceland to Turkey." These are their own words on sites off the BBC. Honestly, if you can't see through this sh*t you're clearly ideologically driven or simply niaive." I don’t lie - I have read the bbc link . | |||
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"Suddenly its a document of fact? Tbis forum would have you believe it was one sided propoganda supporting project fear. Dont let them hear yiu call it something they should have read and beliwwdmmmmm ?" The point is you're now claiming that the info arguing against a leave vote, which you dismissed as Project Fear, was actually correct along. So, even though what those campaigning to Leave told you clearly turned out to be horsesh*t this is what people voted for. And you can't see what's wrong with that? WT-Actaul-F | |||
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"This it what they resort to every time "you are ideology driven or naive" "You're deflecting because you're wrong. Read what Michael Gove said. Read what Raab said. They lied to you. It's all there in black and white. If the argument has been shown to be wrong then what else is there but ideology or just being plain dumb. | |||
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"This it what they resort to every time "you are ideology driven or naive"
You're deflecting because you're wrong. Read what Michael Gove said. Read what Raab said.
They lied to you. It's all there in black and white.
If the argument has been shown to be wrong then what else is there but ideology or just being plain dumb."well i think it was pretty obvious that if a deal was not struck that there would be some disruption but it will be worth it in the long run.Why do you think they have started spending money ? | |||
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"This it what they resort to every time "you are ideology driven or naive"
You're deflecting because you're wrong. Read what Michael Gove said. Read what Raab said.
They lied to you. It's all there in black and white.
If the argument has been shown to be wrong then what else is there but ideology or just being plain dumb.well i think it was pretty obvious that if a deal was not struck that there would be some disruption but it will be worth it in the long run.Why do you think they have started spending money ?"But Gove and Raab and Bojo and all the rest clearly all said there would be a deal. Easiest thing in the world they said. Can you honestly not see the problem here? | |||
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"This it what they resort to every time "you are ideology driven or naive"
You're deflecting because you're wrong. Read what Michael Gove said. Read what Raab said.
They lied to you. It's all there in black and white.
If the argument has been shown to be wrong then what else is there but ideology or just being plain dumb.well i think it was pretty obvious that if a deal was not struck that there would be some disruption but it will be worth it in the long run.Why do you think they have started spending money ?
But Gove and Raab and Bojo and all the rest clearly all said there would be a deal. Easiest thing in the world they said.
Can you honestly not see the problem here?
"They didnt factor in Teresa May fucking the talks up in the 1st meeting | |||
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"This it what they resort to every time "you are ideology driven or naive"
You're deflecting because you're wrong. Read what Michael Gove said. Read what Raab said.
They lied to you. It's all there in black and white.
If the argument has been shown to be wrong then what else is there but ideology or just being plain dumb.well i think it was pretty obvious that if a deal was not struck that there would be some disruption but it will be worth it in the long run.Why do you think they have started spending money ?
But Gove and Raab and Bojo and all the rest clearly all said there would be a deal. Easiest thing in the world they said.
Can you honestly not see the problem here?
They didnt factor in Teresa May fucking the talks up in the 1st meeting"That's got f*ck all to do with anything. You're still admitting the Remain argument was actually correct. But you don't care. You'll still follow those proven wrong because they tell you what you what you want to hear. That's basically the definition of ideology. | |||
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"i make my own mind up thanks but have faith in business which adapts and grows as circumstances change and finally get rid of the boys club called the eu. " Actually, that's a much better demonstration of ideology. | |||
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"i make my own mind up thanks but have faith in business which adapts and grows as circumstances change and finally get rid of the boys club called the eu. " All those businesses will adapt, ...out of the UK  | |||
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"It is the first time in my lifetime that any Government has knowingly pursued a policy that that will cause economic damage and make the country poorer. Anyone recall any other example? Narrative twisted .....
The electorate were consulted, the electorate decided.
Hardly government policy being forced upon us, as you would have us believe
"The people were promised unicorns and sunlit uplands not poverty and medicine shortages | |||
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"I do realise a majority voted to leave the European Union. That isn't what my question was about. The Government is choosing to do it in a way that it knows will cause economic damage and make the country poorer. Has a Government in your lifetime ever knowingly done anything like that? I say again, it’s an irrelevant question as the basis upon which you have made it is a wrong interpretation of the state of affairs . " Regardless of the mandate for the policy, have any government ever implemented policy that they know will cause economic self harm | |||
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"Er, if there's no deal, then we won't be paying £39 billion to the EU - so, of course, there'll be no problem finding £2.1 billion.
If we ever want to get a trade deal with the EU, we'll be paying what we owe. "Exactly....there will be no trade deal of any sort until the £39bn is paid, rights of citizens are sorted and the Irish border issue resolved. The alternative is no deal in perpetuity | |||
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"The leaflet was (and still is) called propoganda by leavers. Just start a thread on leave campaign overspending. While i agree people should read it, imo i expect politicians and the like not to dismiss it as lies and fear just because it does not suit their agenda. The big downside was dismissed. NI was ignored. Sounds like we arr saying peiple chose not to know what they were voting for!! Either way... we can't now say "they didnt tell us" There is no mandate for a no deal. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49165836 We were given the possible outcomes Did you read the link? Yes So, you think claiming there was going to be an easy deal 99.999% of the time vs a 0.001% acknowledgement there might a tiny chance of a crash out constitutes a mandate? If that's how you read election manifestos no wonder you have such an odd sense of democracy. "The closest we have been able to find to an acceptance that there might not be [a deal] was on 2 March 2016. That was the day the Treasury released a report looking at a number of Brexit scenarios and concluding that a no-deal or "WTO Brexit" was the most damaging option for the UK economy." I tend not to believe a great deal of what the BBC churns out, whether it’s broadcast or online. How did you arrive at the %age figures you claim? " All the fact checking organisations have come to the same conclusion as the BBC's work. Does that mean you don't accept facts or experts? | |||
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" How did you arrive at the %age figures you claim? " All the fact checking organisations have come to the same conclusion as the BBC's work. Does that mean you don't accept facts or experts?" Which percentages am I referring to? | |||
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"i make my own mind up thanks but have faith in business which adapts and grows as circumstances change and finally get rid of the boys club called the eu. " How long will it take for this remarkable business transformation? How much contraction to the economy will be caused? Will all this be achieved without jobs being lost, government revenue falling and public services being unfunded? Your analysis is literally about unicorns and wishful thinking. This won't be solved by us all thinking positively | |||
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"How long will it take for this remarkable business transformation? How much contraction to the economy will be caused? Will all this be achieved without jobs being lost, government revenue falling and public services being unfunded?" PM boJo answered your questions with 2 words a few months ago... He said, and I quote: "Fuck business!" | |||
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"The leaflet was (and still is) called propoganda by leavers. Just start a thread on leave campaign overspending. While i agree people should read it, imo i expect politicians and the like not to dismiss it as lies and fear just because it does not suit their agenda. The big downside was dismissed. NI was ignored. Sounds like we arr saying peiple chose not to know what they were voting for!! Either way... we can't now say "they didnt tell us" There is no mandate for a no deal. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49165836 We were given the possible outcomes " By the leave campaign? | |||
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"Show me where it said that. You folks really are re-writing history. Anyone who suggested we might be worse off was trashed. Repeatedly. Constantly. Project Fear, you called it. Over and over again. Have a search and read of the government paper, "The process for withdrawing from the European Union" I don't remember you people advising people to look closely at the facts in 2016. Quite the opposite. Government sent out information to everyone " Yes and was totally dismissed by the leave campaign as scaremongering | |||
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"i make my own mind up thanks but have faith in business which adapts and grows as circumstances change and finally get rid of the boys club called the eu. " Faith is required for religion. Faith should not be required for economic policy. | |||
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"It funny how Boris and his motley crew are finding money for a no deal Brexit but anything else there is no money for. " There was money set aside for no deal preparation. There is no money set aside for BoJer's election promises though. | |||
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"i make my own mind up thanks but have faith in business which adapts and grows as circumstances change and finally get rid of the boys club called the eu. Faith is required for religion. Faith should not be required for economic policy." sorry should have used confidence instead of faith. | |||
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"Johnson & Savid are getting ready to do exactly what Brown and Darling did in the days of the financial crash. "Fiscal Stimulus". Back in 2008, the credit crunch meant lending dried up and economy began to shrink. Governments around the world turned on the spending tap to offset the damage. Faced with a likely shrinkage of the economy because of a bad Brexit, Johnson & Javid are now planning to do exactly the same - turn on the spending tap. " There is a long overdue global slowdown on the way though. It's in danger of arriving at the same time as any proposed Brexit. Weathering both is going to need even more money... | |||
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" The only thing we werent really told about was NI. I do wonder how NI would vote now they know whats at stake... " I do recall Northern Ireland being raised on a number of occasions by Major and Blair, who repeatedly warned it would put the Belfast Agreement in danger. No-one on the mainland seemed that interested in the arguments. Meanwhile, on the mainland we had the bizarre spectacle of the DUP paying for full-page Vote Leave adverts in English newspapers. They were exempt from having to disclose the source of funding for the adverts. | |||
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" The only thing we werent really told about was NI. I do wonder how NI would vote now they know whats at stake... I do recall Northern Ireland being raised on a number of occasions by Major and Blair, who repeatedly warned it would put the Belfast Agreement in danger. No-one on the mainland seemed that interested in the arguments. Meanwhile, on the mainland we had the bizarre spectacle of the DUP paying for full-page Vote Leave adverts in English newspapers. They were exempt from having to disclose the source of funding for the adverts. " That rings bells. Was this one of those times blair was just called a war crim and therefore his views are null and void? | |||
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"Never seen so much "flip flopping" in one thread "They call it "alternative facts" in the White House | |||
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"An appropriate referendum would have people to vote for remain/no deal and those picking no deal would also agree to have their taxes increased, to ensure that leavers pay for all of the costs ever accrued due to leaving are paid for by them, through increased taxation and required payments to settle the bill. Obviously interest accrues until repaid, at a rate above the English Student Loans repayment rate." . A similar option which is available now for the leave voters to show and prove how committed they are to a no deal Brexit would be for those who voted leave to write to their local NHS authority / doctor advising them that should a no- deal lead to a shortage of medicine they are prepared to go to the back of the queue --- volunteers step forward --- | |||
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"Actual facts" Confirmation then that Britain must be one of the dumbest countries in the world. | |||
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"i make my own mind up thanks but have faith in business which adapts and grows as circumstances change and finally get rid of the boys club called the eu. " Grown ups understand , the so called boys club is everywhere, you are basically only changing from one boys club we vaguely understand tolerate and are complicit with to a whole old new one , where the rules are a tad more hard core and extremes possibly more extreme You need to understand a bit more Orwell!!! In a nutshell , humans are greedy parasites , greed always exists and forms a management system where the boys club , whoever's that may be at the time prospers and often cause enjoys a superior complex thus mal treating those who do the graft , Grass is greener so they say They also say cover it in shit and it will be verdant and lush Humanity without pigs will only exist when humanity does not exist | |||
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"the next generation to pay it off??! isnt that what most goverments do? who do you think had to help pay the ladt labour balls up off? thats right the generation who had fuck all to do with it.every goverment saddles somone else with debt its not just a tory thing.if the lbs ever get power they will do the same.and if the greens get in who knows how much taxpayers cash they will spunk up the wall?? they all do it just some on here think its only the tories.and no im not a torie if i was gona vote it would be the raving loony party at least they would put a smille on ya face The last two Conservative chancellors have borrowed more money than every single Labour government in history combined. They are still at it. Not sure you are right about this actually. It was in the era of James III in the 17th Century or thereabouts when records began. There have been a few times in history where debt to GDP exceeded 200% - Napoleonic Wars, the two World Wars being just three examples. In pure monetary term you are right that the debt has gone from around £0.5 trillion in 2005 to a now reducing £1.85 trillion or that ball park. " That's £1,850,000,000,000 000 | |||
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" In pure monetary term you are right that the debt has gone from around £0.5 trillion in 2005 to a now reducing £1.85 trillion or that ball park. " Where do you get the idea the national debt is reducing? The national debt is increasing at a rate of £5,170 per second. | |||
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