FabSwingers.com forum: Direct Rule

By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Foreign Secretary Raab confirms in radio interview the UK Government is considering imposing direct rule on Northern Ireland, to enable the civil service to implement the necessary regulations for a no-deal Brexit in the absence of an elected executive.

What could possibly go wrong?

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

... The DUP not voting for a deal.

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

Wait, we've already had that, so now I'll go with Raab as foreign Sec.

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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

English Tories imposing the most extreme version of a policy on Northern Ireland that the majority of people in Northern Ireland voted against?

Hmmm, let me think about that . . .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"English Tories imposing the most extreme version of a policy on Northern Ireland that the majority of people in Northern Ireland voted against?

Hmmm, let me think about that . . ."

Are they not also the United Kingdom? and wasn't the referendum result a UK wide "affair"?

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

do you not think that N Ireland deserves a government after 2 1/2 years.

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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"English Tories imposing the most extreme version of a policy on Northern Ireland that the majority of people in Northern Ireland voted against?

Hmmm, let me think about that . . .

Are they not also the United Kingdom? and wasn't the referendum result a UK wide "affair"? "

You do not like Europe-wide rules being "imposed" on one part of Europe, even when the majority are in favour.

Ditto.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"English Tories imposing the most extreme version of a policy on Northern Ireland that the majority of people in Northern Ireland voted against?

Hmmm, let me think about that . . .

Are they not also the United Kingdom? and wasn't the referendum result a UK wide "affair"?

You do not like Europe-wide rules being "imposed" on one part of Europe, even when the majority are in favour.

Ditto."

I don't get what you mean...

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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield /derby cinemas

I am still struggling to understand why "leavers" are not demanding a border on the island of Ireland , separating the UK and the EU .. A referendum was held where one of the main objectives was to "take control of OUR borders" , but the same people appear to be saying " we want a border everywhere we have one with the EU apart from where we actually have one "

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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"English Tories imposing the most extreme version of a policy on Northern Ireland that the majority of people in Northern Ireland voted against?

Hmmm, let me think about that . . .

Are they not also the United Kingdom? and wasn't the referendum result a UK wide "affair"?

You do not like Europe-wide rules being "imposed" on one part of Europe, even when the majority are in favour.

Ditto.

I don't get what you mean... "

Exactly. You cannot see how others see you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"English Tories imposing the most extreme version of a policy on Northern Ireland that the majority of people in Northern Ireland voted against?

Hmmm, let me think about that . . .

Are they not also the United Kingdom? and wasn't the referendum result a UK wide "affair"?

You do not like Europe-wide rules being "imposed" on one part of Europe, even when the majority are in favour.

Ditto."

You just said it yourself - the majority. When the United Kingdom voted on to "Stay" or "Leave" the majority voted leave.

According to existing democratic ideas in the Western World a majority is a majority - but then again many "Remainers" see only the "bright side of life" and not the truth.

OAP in Greece burning themselves as they have nothing left, 20-35's leaving Italy in droves as there is no work, educated middle class leaving Europe for the UK, USA, NZ and elsewhere as they are being taxed out of the system.

That is the truth - please reas for once a foreign paper like the FAZ, NZZ or Stampa and they report what is really happening in Europe...France with the highest debt of all EU countries but lording it over everyone else, Germany planning to reintroduce the DM as Germans are fed up with bailing out others, facotries closing in Germany as export has broken down, the whole lot.

The argument that the EU securied the Peace Deal in Northern Ireland is a load of tosh, dito the same that Europe is protected by the EU [Nato does that with 70% of the budget covered by the USA and UK].

It is about time that Northern Ireland received a progressiv Parliament back, which guarantees rights to the LGBT community, abortion and much more needed steps. For nearly 3 years Sinn Fein and DUP have been bickering and for what ?

Just think of all the ones who have to leave Northern Ireland because of issues of abortion or LGBT

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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

As a member, the UK has been among the most vociferous in demanding secure controls on the land crossings at the perimeter of the EU (13,454km).

As a soon to be non-member, the UK is demanding the complete opposite on the extra 500km that will soon be added to that total in Ireland.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"English Tories imposing the most extreme version of a policy on Northern Ireland that the majority of people in Northern Ireland voted against?

Hmmm, let me think about that . . .

Are they not also the United Kingdom? and wasn't the referendum result a UK wide "affair"?

You do not like Europe-wide rules being "imposed" on one part of Europe, even when the majority are in favour.

Ditto."
you are not making any sense to me.

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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

The difference between the union of the EU and the union of the UK is that members of the EU can opt out of fundamental changes they disagree with, e.g. Euro, Schengen.

Not so in the UK. One member dominates and the rest must follow. Such is the highly centralised control of the union of the UK.

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By *V-AliceTV/TS
over a year ago

Ayr

"It is about time that Northern Ireland received a progressiv Parliament back, which guarantees rights to the LGBT community, abortion and much more needed steps."

Agreed. However, the DUP are the ones opposed to such progress. So, if the government imposes it, the DUP will no longer support them in Westminster and they'll lose their majority.

Even with direct rule, the Tories are not going to upset the DUP. They daren't.

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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Just imagine if Sinn Fein could be persuaded to take up their 7 seats in Westminster, if even only for a few days, to pull this whole pantomime down.

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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Ditto.you are not making any sense to me."

How would you feel if Brussels imposed direct rule on London to drive through an extreme version of an unpopular policy, because London could not get its act together?

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"English Tories imposing the most extreme version of a policy on Northern Ireland that the majority of people in Northern Ireland voted against?

Hmmm, let me think about that . . .

Are they not also the United Kingdom? and wasn't the referendum result a UK wide "affair"?

You do not like Europe-wide rules being "imposed" on one part of Europe, even when the majority are in favour.

Ditto.

You just said it yourself - the majority. When the United Kingdom voted on to "Stay" or "Leave" the majority voted leave.

According to existing democratic ideas in the Western World a majority is a majority - but then again many "Remainers" see only the "bright side of life" and not the truth.

Just think of all the ones who have to leave Northern Ireland because of issues of abortion or LGBT

Your rant could be picked apart line by line, but that would take the thread off topic.

Some people in N Ireland would react very badly to direct rule from Westminster. The current paralysis suits the DUP and direct rule would be ok by them as long as Unionist red lines were maintained.

The other side would see direct rule as being a regressive step that is not in the spirit of the GFA and the devolutionary steps already made. In the event of any kind of damaging Brexit on the island of Ireland you can more than reasonably expect a significant pushback from both Republicans and moderate unionists. The Northern Irish knew the potential problems that any kind of Brexit would bring and that is why they voted to maintain the status quo.

There is no question in my mind that the Brexit referendum was the first step towards Irish unification. Imposing direct rule as a consequence of Brexit will likely make the process violent and ugly.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

"It's great to be here in Northern Ireland and clearly the people of Northern Ireland have been without a government, without Stormont for two years and six months so my prime focus this morning is to do everything I can to help that get up and running again,"

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"As a member, the UK has been among the most vociferous in demanding secure controls on the land crossings at the perimeter of the EU (13,454km).

As a soon to be non-member, the UK is demanding the complete opposite on the extra 500km that will soon be added to that total in Ireland."

I thought it was not just the UK, but also Ireland and the EU not wanting any border controls.....

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

Ditto.you are not making any sense to me.

How would you feel if Brussels imposed direct rule on London to drive through an extreme version of an unpopular policy, because London could not get its act together?"

How would you feel if the 650 MPs refused to sit?

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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"As a member, the UK has been among the most vociferous in demanding secure controls on the land crossings at the perimeter of the EU (13,454km).

As a soon to be non-member, the UK is demanding the complete opposite on the extra 500km that will soon be added to that total in Ireland.

I thought it was not just the UK, but also Ireland and the EU not wanting any border controls....."

Yes, hence the backstop that all parties signed up to, but which the UK Parliament rejected.

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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Had Mrs May not been beholden to the nutty Unionists, the impasse could have been broken by a referendum in NI on the original backstop idea.

If the people of NI were content with what was being proposed, no-one on the mainland could have had any grounds to object.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"I am still struggling to understand why "leavers" are not demanding a border on the island of Ireland , separating the UK and the EU .. A referendum was held where one of the main objectives was to "take control of OUR borders" , but the same people appear to be saying " we want a border everywhere we have one with the EU apart from where we actually have one " "

spoiler coming: "blah blah blah blah something about not actually being seen to breaking the good friday agreement blah blah blah.....

truth is though... if it meant sacrificing northern ireland to get their brexit dream, they would do it in a heartbeat.....

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

"As a member, the UK has been among the most vociferous in demanding secure controls on the land crossings at the perimeter of the EU (13,454km).

As a soon to be non-member, the UK is demanding the complete opposite on the extra 500km that will soon be added to that total in Ireland.

I thought it was not just the UK, but also Ireland and the EU not wanting any border controls....."

It's only the UK that is making self-contradictory demands. Saying that they want hard borders against the EU, but no border against Eire. That they can have an invisible border, the technology is easy. Then refusing to sign up to be legally bound by a clause - that was written by the UK negotiating team - that they really will install this invisible border. Them saying it's the EUs responsibility to install a border if they want one. And if there is a border it's the EU's fault. But that brings us back to it being the UK (and very specifically England) that wants to force NI to leave the EU so that the UK can control its borders. Except that England says it can do that without having a border...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"English Tories imposing the most extreme version of a policy on Northern Ireland that the majority of people in Northern Ireland voted against?

Hmmm, let me think about that . . .

Are they not also the United Kingdom? and wasn't the referendum result a UK wide "affair"?

You do not like Europe-wide rules being "imposed" on one part of Europe, even when the majority are in favour.

Ditto."
.

I'm not entirely sure how you know the majority of EU citizens are in favour of most EU rules and regulations?.

It could be that they dislike most of them but put up with it's meddling nonsense as it's part of a bigger picture they want along the line, who knows!.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

spoiler coming: "blah blah blah blah something about not actually being seen to breaking the good friday agreement blah blah blah.....

truth is though... if it meant sacrificing northern ireland to get their brexit dream, they would do it in a heartbeat....."
.

Sacrificing? Only Northern Ireland can choose to leave the UK, what a ridiculous thing to say.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The difference between the union of the EU and the union of the UK is that members of the EU can opt out of fundamental changes they disagree with, e.g. Euro, Schengen.

Not so in the UK. One member dominates and the rest must follow. Such is the highly centralised control of the union of the UK."

Thing is the union of the UK creates one country unlike the European Union.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The difference between the union of the EU and the union of the UK is that members of the EU can opt out of fundamental changes they disagree with, e.g. Euro, Schengen.

Not so in the UK. One member dominates and the rest must follow. Such is the highly centralised control of the union of the UK."

The UK voted as one not singular votes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ditto.you are not making any sense to me.

How would you feel if Brussels imposed direct rule on London to drive through an extreme version of an unpopular policy, because London could not get its act together?"

Brussels and London are not the same Country, your examples don't add up, don't make sense because they cannot be compared to the UK.

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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

No-one gives you a vote here on whether to amend the 1984 Town and Country Planning Act. We rely on the wisdom of people we elect to make the decision on our behalf.

Europe is no different. We rely on the people we elect to make decisions on policy, by majority vote.

Except where the issues are fundamentally profound.

In Europe, countries can opt out, because they remain sovereign. Here they cannot, because they are not.

It is the "one size fits all" approach that Brexiteers say they detest.

It is what lands us in the ludicrous position of English Tories driving a coach and horses through the peace agreement in order to impose on NI an extreme version of a policy made in England, against the will of the people of NI.

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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield /derby cinemas

spoiler coming: "blah blah blah blah something about not actually being seen to breaking the good friday agreement blah blah blah.....

truth is though... if it meant sacrificing northern ireland to get their brexit dream, they would do it in a heartbeat......

Sacrificing? Only Northern Ireland can choose to leave the UK, what a ridiculous thing to say.

"
. And 17 million voted for Northern Ireland to remain with the U.K. by having a border between the UK and the EU , or do we now not want a border between the UK and the EU and if not , do we now not want to control our borders ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ditto.you are not making any sense to me.

How would you feel if Brussels imposed direct rule on London to drive through an extreme version of an unpopular policy, because London could not get its act together?"
.

I don't know but these things happen in the EU as well, ask Hungary, Poland, Slovenia how they feel about EU imposed immigration of non EU people?.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

spoiler coming: "blah blah blah blah something about not actually being seen to breaking the good friday agreement blah blah blah.....

truth is though... if it meant sacrificing northern ireland to get their brexit dream, they would do it in a heartbeat......

Sacrificing? Only Northern Ireland can choose to leave the UK, what a ridiculous thing to say.

. And 17 million voted for Northern Ireland to remain with the U.K. by having a border between the UK and the EU , or do we now not want a border between the UK and the EU and if not , do we now not want to control our borders ? "
.

So give Northern Ireland a vote to leave the UK then, what's the problem?.

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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Ditto.you are not making any sense to me.

How would you feel if Brussels imposed direct rule on London to drive through an extreme version of an unpopular policy, because London could not get its act together?

Brussels and London are not the same Country, your examples don't add up, don't make sense because they cannot be compared to the UK. "

Both are the administrative centres of political unions of countries.

The difference is where sovereignty rests. In the Brussels union, Brussels has none. In the London union, London has it all.

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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Ditto.you are not making any sense to me.

How would you feel if Brussels imposed direct rule on London to drive through an extreme version of an unpopular policy, because London could not get its act together?.

I don't know but these things happen in the EU as well, ask Hungary, Poland, Slovenia how they feel about EU imposed immigration of non EU people?."

I am not aware the EU has any policy on migration from out with the EU. That is a matter of national competence only.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ditto.you are not making any sense to me.

How would you feel if Brussels imposed direct rule on London to drive through an extreme version of an unpopular policy, because London could not get its act together?.

I don't know but these things happen in the EU as well, ask Hungary, Poland, Slovenia how they feel about EU imposed immigration of non EU people?.

I am not aware the EU has any policy on migration from out with the EU. That is a matter of national competence only."
.

No the EU told those states if they don't comply with EU rule they face financial constraints and if they still don't oblige they get expelled or they can leave.

Choice is there's.

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By *yth11Couple
over a year ago

newark

Ditto.you are not making any sense to me.

How would you feel if Brussels imposed direct rule on London to drive through an extreme version of an unpopular policy, because London could not get its act together?.

I don't know but these things happen in the EU as well, ask Hungary, Poland, Slovenia how they feel about EU imposed immigration of non EU people?.

I am not aware the EU has any policy on migration from out with the EU. That is a matter of national competence only."

No its shared competence

Articles 79 and 80 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union

Regular immigration: the EU is competent to lay down the conditions governing entry into and legal residence in a Member State, including for the purposes of family reunification, for third-country nationals. Member States retain the right to determine volumes of admission for people coming from third countries to seek work.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/152/immigration-policy The link from the European parliament.

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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Citizen rights, human rights, yes I imagine all countries need to be compliant with Treaty requirements. But who is allowed in from out with the EU is a matter for national government.

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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Ditto.you are not making any sense to me.

How would you feel if Brussels imposed direct rule on London to drive through an extreme version of an unpopular policy, because London could not get its act together?.

I don't know but these things happen in the EU as well, ask Hungary, Poland, Slovenia how they feel about EU imposed immigration of non EU people?.

I am not aware the EU has any policy on migration from out with the EU. That is a matter of national competence only..

No the EU told those states if they don't comply with EU rule they face financial constraints and if they still don't oblige they get expelled or they can leave.

Choice is there's.

Are you referring to refugees and how they are processed etc?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ditto.you are not making any sense to me.

How would you feel if Brussels imposed direct rule on London to drive through an extreme version of an unpopular policy, because London could not get its act together?.

I don't know but these things happen in the EU as well, ask Hungary, Poland, Slovenia how they feel about EU imposed immigration of non EU people?.

I am not aware the EU has any policy on migration from out with the EU. That is a matter of national competence only..

No the EU told those states if they don't comply with EU rule they face financial constraints and if they still don't oblige they get expelled or they can leave.

Choice is there's.

Are you referring to refugees and how they are processed etc?

"
.

Jeepers, your there

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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

After realising you do not know the difference between immigration policy and refugees, yes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"After realising you do not know the difference between immigration policy and refugees, yes."
.

The refugees are immigrants.

Anyhow semantics to one side what do you think about the EU enforcing they're will on other smaller states?.

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By *ilkysmooth123Man
over a year ago

nr sedbergh

"English Tories imposing the most extreme version of a policy on Northern Ireland that the majority of people in Northern Ireland voted against?

Hmmm, let me think about that . . .

Are they not also the United Kingdom? and wasn't the referendum result a UK wide "affair"?

You do not like Europe-wide rules being "imposed" on one part of Europe, even when the majority are in favour.

Ditto.you are not making any sense to me."

He never makes sense.He just has an axe to grind against the English.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"English Tories imposing the most extreme version of a policy on Northern Ireland that the majority of people in Northern Ireland voted against?

Hmmm, let me think about that . . .

Are they not also the United Kingdom? and wasn't the referendum result a UK wide "affair"?

You do not like Europe-wide rules being "imposed" on one part of Europe, even when the majority are in favour.

Ditto.you are not making any sense to me.

He never makes sense.He just has an axe to grind against the English."
True but chooses to live among them,strange.

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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"After realising you do not know the difference between immigration policy and refugees, yes..

The refugees are immigrants.

Anyhow semantics to one side what do you think about the EU enforcing they're will on other smaller states?."

Start a thread about it.

This one is about the UK and how it wants to ride roughshod over Ireland and the peace process.

Re-assuring to hear the US Congress people warn Johnson and his secretary of state they'll block any US/UK trade deal if the UK acts in a way that wrecks the Belfast Agreement.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"After realising you do not know the difference between immigration policy and refugees, yes..

The refugees are immigrants.

Anyhow semantics to one side what do you think about the EU enforcing they're will on other smaller states?.

Start a thread about it.

This one is about the UK and how it wants to ride roughshod over Ireland and the peace process.

Re-assuring to hear the US Congress people warn Johnson and his secretary of state they'll block any US/UK trade deal if the UK acts in a way that wrecks the Belfast Agreement.

"
.

I thought you'd duck that question

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"After realising you do not know the difference between immigration policy and refugees, yes..

The refugees are immigrants.

Anyhow semantics to one side what do you think about the EU enforcing they're will on other smaller states?.

Start a thread about it.

This one is about the UK and how it wants to ride roughshod over Ireland and the peace process.

Re-assuring to hear the US Congress people warn Johnson and his secretary of state they'll block any US/UK trade deal if the UK acts in a way that wrecks the Belfast Agreement.

I thought you'd duck that question

Start another thread. Keep things on track on here.

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By *laytimenowMan
over a year ago

Essex

Thing is the union of the UK creates one country unlike the European Union. "

Ive never giggled at someones stupidity so much ever

The unionnof the uk makes 1 country

England ( Country)

Scotland ( country)

Wales ( principality/ Country )

Notthern Ireland ( country in dispute of ownership )

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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Someone doesn't know the difference between country and state.

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