FabSwingers.com forum: How do people under 60 base their EU Brexit/Remain decision?

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

UK joined EU 46 years ago, so anyone within that age group has never lived in independent UK.

Let's add another 14 years as children have no understanding of social and economical matters.

With that in mind how do people who are below the age of 60 comparing living outside of EU to independent UK without ever having the experience?

If you're arguing for remain or Brexit your opinion seems to be indicated by media or word of mouth? Am I incorrect to think that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"UK joined EU 46 years ago, so anyone within that age group has never lived in independent UK.

Let's add another 14 years as children have no understanding of social and economical matters.

With that in mind how do people who are below the age of 60 comparing living outside of EU to independent UK without ever having the experience?

If you're arguing for remain or Brexit your opinion seems to be indicated by media or word of mouth? Am I incorrect to think that

I used to be subconsciously driven by the media up until just before the referendum. I decided to research the pros and cons over the last week before the vote since it was such an important decision for the country and balanced up what I felt would benefit the UK the most.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you want to make an informed decision then the 1st rule is keep away from the media.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"If you want to make an informed decision then the 1st rule is keep away from the media. "

I think you can use media, just make sure to check the sources.

Often media will quote a single sentence of from a paragraph and use it to get their point across/sell stories.

Use media, check your sources, make informed decisions

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

"If you want to make an informed decision then the 1st rule is keep away from the media.

I think you can use media, just make sure to check the sources.

Often media will quote a single sentence of from a paragraph and use it to get their point across/sell stories.

Use media, check your sources, make informed decisions

Yes, and don’t believe everything you read on here

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"If you want to make an informed decision then the 1st rule is keep away from the media.

I think you can use media, just make sure to check the sources.

Often media will quote a single sentence of from a paragraph and use it to get their point across/sell stories.

Use media, check your sources, make informed decisions

Yes, and don’t believe everything you read on here

If you mean the politics forum, then of course. Every time I take a gander here, it's just toddlers on both sides throwing toys at each other

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"UK joined EU 46 years ago, so anyone within that age group has never lived in independent UK.

Let's add another 14 years as children have no understanding of social and economical matters.

With that in mind how do people who are below the age of 60 comparing living outside of EU to independent UK without ever having the experience?

If you're arguing for remain or Brexit your opinion seems to be indicated by media or word of mouth? Am I incorrect to think that

My stance is:

.Research around how the EU operates, how countries in other trade blocs operate, and how countries outside of trade blocs operate.

. Research around other supranational organisations, and how up until recently, we have always had a seat at them. Because we provided adequate self reflection and realistic appraisal, and shifted our politics and alignments as the world moved away from our legacy of hegemony.

. I work in association with medical and environmental research, so I understand how we are moving to an era where data will become the most important thing for the state and the private sector. And our data is better protected when we agree to integrate it and cooperate in an in-depth manner with like-minded states.

. I read a lot of history in my downtime. I'm fairly familiar with the history of how the second world war nearly broke us, and how we had to adjust to the realities of Imperial disintegration, our former holdings drifting the more local powers, eg, Australia to America.

Basically, I'm aware I've only ever know the EU.

I try to make up for that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If you want to make an informed decision then the 1st rule is keep away from the media.

I think you can use media, just make sure to check the sources.

Often media will quote a single sentence of from a paragraph and use it to get their point across/sell stories.

Use media, check your sources, make informed decisions

Yes, and don’t believe everything you read on here

"
An extremely valid point

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

P.s we joined the EEC not the EU. Just to be pedantic.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I've based my opinion upon as much research as I could find and digest before the referendum as well as since. I've been biased since, as I decided that to remain was the best choice . I've also lived in several countries, including some in the EU.

I have spoken with many people on this too, the vast majority who decided to remain. I mix with many young people from 18 years and above, only 1 had chosen to leave. Thousands of people will have their qualifications rendered invalid, with no deal, which is a huge investment of them and the UK, which is not forgivable and blindly stupid.

There appears no strong, credible evidence for leaving to be anything but disastrous and also likely to be catastrophic for many, including those yet to retire, who may fail to have good earnings for the rest of their working lives, resulting in poorer pensions investment levels and thus struggling in retirement.

A tiny number of people, including those in disaster capitalism ventures, currency speculation and off-shoring, will face x different future to most people.

The media have reported poorly on brexit, typically failing to scrutinize and challenge much of what has been done so far.

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By *laytimenowMan
over a year ago

Essex

[Removed by poster at 03/07/19 04:17:50]

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By *laytimenowMan
over a year ago

Essex

Let's add another 14 years as children have no understanding of social and economical matters.

Speak for yourself when you talk about children age 14

Not knowing stuff .

Ive been watching & making sense of the news since i was probably 7 .

I remember full well what it was like before .

I made my decision on being fully aware of how politics

affects everyday life since since i was a kid &

Not just every 4 or 5 years at the latest GE.

Dont get me wrong have had a fun filled life

Enjoying it as much as i can , but people who dont take there

Politics seriously from the beginning is the reason the uk was F*cked then & still is now."

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"UK joined EU 46 years ago, so anyone within that age group has never lived in independent UK.

Let's add another 14 years as children have no understanding of social and economical matters.

With that in mind how do people who are below the age of 60 comparing living outside of EU to independent UK without ever having the experience?

If you're arguing for remain or Brexit your opinion seems to be indicated by media or word of mouth? Am I incorrect to think that

Read books and research papers, not the media, on economics, trade, the functioning of the EU, international trade, history and geopolitics.

Look at where things in the shops come from. Everything from TVs to food.

Travel, with ease to Europe and less ease to the rest of the world.

Talk to colleagues that you have from Europeans countries and understand how key their skills and knowledge are to companies.

If you work for high technology and manufacturing industries in particular see how much they are integrated across the continent and the world.

Think about if groups or individuals achieve more, have greater influence and bargaining power.

Then contemplate what benefits there are of leaving the EU.

Why would people of the same age group be arguing to leave on the basis that they have zero knowledge of life outside the EU?

The media and government has blamed the EU for almost everything for years.

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By *pitfiremk10Man
over a year ago

Gloucester

I'm an ex pat now living in Spain.... speaking to several nationalities here of various ages indicates most feel the EU would never work like in USA for 2 reasons. 1 there is no common language. 2 the cultural differences make it almost impossible to balance. The consensus is when UK leave the whole pack of cards will collapse.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's an interesting thought experiment even if I don't quite buy where this premise could lead.

To start with I'm not sure the world pre EU was great. I wonder what parts were better then than now... And whtehr the eu had any real influence on shapping the deterioration.

Looking at the key Brexit themes

Sovereignty. No one has pointed at an eu directive that we the UK really don't like and has significant impact. So I'm yet to be convinced the delegation of where some laws are incubated has had any impact. So in this instance being "independant" wouldnt change much.

Immigration. Immigration was fairly flat untik the 90s.the spike here was more from non eu than eu. The eu increase started in 2002 ish. Interestingly productivity slowed around here. Was that because of eu migration... Or has eu migration propped up our gdp growth in recent years. Either which way in the most of the change in immigration would have happened in an independant Britain.

Economy. The world has grown up since 1970 to be more global and is dominated by trade agreements. Who knows what that would look like if we weren't part of the eu. Maybe we'd have trade agreements of our own. But this is all hypothetical as we won't be evolving our trade strategy in line with the evolution of global trade. We'd be going from a standing start against a world which has a huge headatart on us.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"UK joined EU 46 years ago, so anyone within that age group has never lived in independent UK.

Let's add another 14 years as children have no understanding of social and economical matters.

With that in mind how do people who are below the age of 60 comparing living outside of EU to independent UK without ever having the experience?

If you're arguing for remain or Brexit your opinion seems to be indicated by media or word of mouth? Am I incorrect to think that

Having an education and being able to study history, have an understanding of geography, politics and economics all helps.

If it were only necessary to have personal experience of something then concepts and theories would never get tested in real life and as humans, we would not have ideas or ambition.

I have never lived in Venezuela, North Korea or South Sudan. But I could make a fairly good and educated assessment about what life might be like in those countries and what certain changes might end up doing to their societies.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

Given the choice again, I'd probably vote leave. Just because remainers seem really annoying.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"Given the choice again, I'd probably vote leave. Just because remainers seem really annoying. "
great assessment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Given the choice again, I'd probably vote leave. Just because remainers seem really annoying. "

"Don't eat that shit sandwich, it's not good for you!"

"Ugh, typical remoaners, stop telling me what to do"

*Eats shit sandwich because remoaners were against it*

"Hah, showed you, and now I'll only be sick for a short time!"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Given the choice again, I'd probably vote leave. Just because remainers seem really annoying. "

I feel the same about corbyn.Ive never voted labour in my life .However the conservatives are driving me towards labour the more they moan and foam at the mouth about jeeza being the most dangerous man in parliament and a terrorist Trotsky anti Semitic nuclear free beardy grandfather.

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By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

"Given the choice again, I'd probably vote leave. Just because remainers seem really annoying.

"
that’s how I see him tho bob I voted labour all my life but don’t think I can untill they get rid of him and I’m sick of old men running the country need an upper age limit now he’s older than water ffs

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

its an interesting question...

my point of reference is.... if the EU was a bad concept in part... then why to do countries prefer working in blocks...

be that NAFTA, or Caricom in the Carribbean, Mercosul in South America, AU in Africa, The principal behind TPP for example

the disrupture is trump... where he believes agreements should be bilateral (but thats because he believes the US are in a position to bully everyone to get what he wants in that scenario, as the UK may just be about to find out)

so in effect you can talk about world events to make a local decision

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

"its an interesting question...

...is it?

The idea that unless you've lived through something your opinion can't be valid is a bit suspect.

That rules most of us out from having opinions on all kinds of topics. No one can have experienced everything, so it's generally acceptable to form opinions from research and debate.

I suspect from the first post and following comments that OP just wants to feel a bit superior...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Given the choice again, I'd probably vote leave. Just because remainers seem really annoying.

that’s how I see him tho bob I voted labour all my life but don’t think I can untill they get rid of him and I’m sick of old men running the country need an upper age limit now he’s older than water ffs "

The baby boomers own this country we've just got wait for the bastards to die .

Hopefully a under 40 candidate will turn up and save this country from the oldies.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"Given the choice again, I'd probably vote leave. Just because remainers seem really annoying.

The baby boomers own this country we've just got wait for the bastards to die .

Hopefully a under 40 candidate will turn up and save this country from the oldies.

"
Nice attitude bob im sure your parents will be pleased to hear that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"its an interesting question...

...is it?

The idea that unless you've lived through something your opinion can't be valid is a bit suspect.

That rules most of us out from having opinions on all kinds of topics. No one can have experienced everything, so it's generally acceptable to form opinions from research and debate.

I suspect from the first post and following comments that OP just wants to feel a bit superior..."

Is this quoting me. Because I said thought experiment... And I didnt agree where the premise was leading (which is where you took it)

But the idea of how you know for sure if fire is hot if you've never burnt yourself is one worth considering. Never be afraid to challenge how you form your beliefs.

The flip side of the OP coin is how can anyone who is below a certain age vote leave if they have never experienced anything outside of the EU.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Good points.

No need to get defensive and offended by the way, this wasn't aimed at a particular side, as the OP could be an argument for and against both sides

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

is tonight open to all? thanks

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"is tonight open to all? thanks"

There's a dress code after 8 pm.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"is tonight open to all? thanks

There's a dress code after 8 pm.

"
Is there an age limit bob???

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"Good points.

No need to get defensive and offended by the way, this wasn't aimed at a particular side, as the OP could be an argument for and against both sides

So what is the counter-argument?

How could they vote to leave with no experience of life outside the EU?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Good points.

No need to get defensive and offended by the way, this wasn't aimed at a particular side, as the OP could be an argument for and against both sides

Not offended. Just clarifying. I will never claim I'm great at explaining my thoughts so often get misinterpreted.

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