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"Libertarian and authoritarian is probably a better differential than left and right on here. " There is correctness which is right in what you say. But then there is people's misconstrued perception which seems to win here. | |||
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"No matter what putin says, the UK is still a far better country to live in than Russia "Its a better country because we embrace liberalism . People like living in liberal countries.Peole leave illiberal countries. People like freedom and choice to express themselves .Liberalism will always trump nationalism. | |||
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"Assume this isn't the article which was in the putin thread..." No. The OP in the other thread will currently be undertaking mental gymnastics to try to rationalise his thread against the words of Boris Johnson. | |||
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"Assume this isn't the article which was in the putin thread... No. The OP in the other thread will currently be undertaking mental gymnastics to try to rationalise his thread against the words of Boris Johnson. "
He'll probably say its only an opinion, not real life and the author is not a successful person..
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"From the Daily Telegraph “ Boris Johnson has criticised Russian President Vladimir Putin’s claim that liberalism is dead, with the potential Prime Minister saying Britain was the best modern example of the “triumph of liberal values”. The former foreign secretary praised Britain for successfully marrying democracy and the rule of law, as well as describing the UK as a world leader in technology, culture and financial services. “The country that possesses these essential building blocks of liberalism will succeed; the country without them will – eventually – face disaster,” Mr Johnson wrote in the Daily Telegraph.” Oops." I am assuming that the op is a busy man and did not have time to post the concluding paragraphs of the article . The article was mainly concerning liberalism and finances , whereas the previous post was about liberalism , family values and minority groups being given preferential treatment . The article headline reads “ We will prove Vladimir Putin wrong by leaving the EU by October 31 “ That is why these liberal values are essential , and the cardinal beauty of liberal democracy is that each person is equal . Everyone is equal under the law . Each person has an equal say – an equal franchise – at elections . Which takes us to the great national question , which we are taking so painfully long to resolve . One of the problems with the EU , as it has developed over the past 45 years of our membership is that it has begun seriously to undermine that fundamental characteristic of a liberal democracy , that the people should have the power , at elections , to remove those who make laws . The EU system makes this impossible . Over the years , successive treaties have centralised power in Brussels , in a way that is understood by a tiny minority – who can always be sure of knocking on the right door in tolhe Berlaymont , or paying someone to do so on thie behalf – but which is wholly opaque to the broad mass of the public . That was one of the main reasons people voted to leave, and that is why it is so essential that we get on with it now and carry out that mandate by Oct 31 st . If we fail again and kick the can down he road , we will continue to undermine trust in politics . If we say that it is not a hard deadline , we will fuel the suspicion that there is a conspiracy to by the elite to frustrate the will of the people . And people will reasonably wonder if October 31 is not the “ hard “ deadline , then what is ? Is it Christmas , the Greek calends ? If we fil yet again , and especially if we thereby increase the risk that the EU demands another referendum before we have delivered the first , we will make a mockery of democracy . We will look like any other obligarchy or monarchy – and thee are – alas – still many examples around the world – where votes are held and the people nominally consulted , but no one takes any notice , because , as in Moscow , the same crew mysteriously stay in power . If we want to uphold liberal values , we must leave by Oct 31 st , and we will . | |||
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"From the Daily Telegraph “ Boris Johnson has criticised Russian President Vladimir Putin’s claim that liberalism is dead, with the potential Prime Minister saying Britain was the best modern example of the “triumph of liberal values”. The former foreign secretary praised Britain for successfully marrying democracy and the rule of law, as well as describing the UK as a world leader in technology, culture and financial services. “The country that possesses these essential building blocks of liberalism will succeed; the country without them will – eventually – face disaster,” Mr Johnson wrote in the Daily Telegraph.” Oops. I am assuming that the op is a busy man and did not have time to post the concluding paragraphs of the article . The article was mainly concerning liberalism and finances , whereas the previous post was about liberalism , family values and minority groups being given preferential treatment . The article headline reads “ We will prove Vladimir Putin wrong by leaving the EU by October 31 “ That is why these liberal values are essential , and the cardinal beauty of liberal democracy is that each person is equal . Everyone is equal under the law . Each person has an equal say – an equal franchise – at elections . Which takes us to the great national question , which we are taking so painfully long to resolve . One of the problems with the EU , as it has developed over the past 45 years of our membership is that it has begun seriously to undermine that fundamental characteristic of a liberal democracy , that the people should have the power , at elections , to remove those who make laws . The EU system makes this impossible . Over the years , successive treaties have centralised power in Brussels , in a way that is understood by a tiny minority – who can always be sure of knocking on the right door in tolhe Berlaymont , or paying someone to do so on thie behalf – but which is wholly opaque to the broad mass of the public . That was one of the main reasons people voted to leave, and that is why it is so essential that we get on with it now and carry out that mandate by Oct 31 st . If we fail again and kick the can down he road , we will continue to undermine trust in politics . If we say that it is not a hard deadline , we will fuel the suspicion that there is a conspiracy to by the elite to frustrate the will of the people . And people will reasonably wonder if October 31 is not the “ hard “ deadline , then what is ? Is it Christmas , the Greek calends ? If we fil yet again , and especially if we thereby increase the risk that the EU demands another referendum before we have delivered the first , we will make a mockery of democracy . We will look like any other obligarchy or monarchy – and thee are – alas – still many examples around the world – where votes are held and the people nominally consulted , but no one takes any notice , because , as in Moscow , the same crew mysteriously stay in power . If we want to uphold liberal values , we must leave by Oct 31 st , and we will . " I understand now. You are now posting as much cut and paste crap as you can so that people can't be bothered to sift through it and call out the bull. Nice ploy for someone who thinks that his own posts are irrelevant  | |||
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"From the Daily Telegraph “ Boris Johnson has criticised Russian President Vladimir Putin’s claim that liberalism is dead, with the potential Prime Minister saying Britain was the best modern example of the “triumph of liberal values”. The former foreign secretary praised Britain for successfully marrying democracy and the rule of law, as well as describing the UK as a world leader in technology, culture and financial services. “The country that possesses these essential building blocks of liberalism will succeed; the country without them will – eventually – face disaster,” Mr Johnson wrote in the Daily Telegraph.” Oops. I am assuming that the op is a busy man and did not have time to post the concluding paragraphs of the article . The article was mainly concerning liberalism and finances , whereas the previous post was about liberalism , family values and minority groups being given preferential treatment . The article headline reads “ We will prove Vladimir Putin wrong by leaving the EU by October 31 “ That is why these liberal values are essential , and the cardinal beauty of liberal democracy is that each person is equal . Everyone is equal under the law . Each person has an equal say – an equal franchise – at elections . Which takes us to the great national question , which we are taking so painfully long to resolve . One of the problems with the EU , as it has developed over the past 45 years of our membership is that it has begun seriously to undermine that fundamental characteristic of a liberal democracy , that the people should have the power , at elections , to remove those who make laws . The EU system makes this impossible . Over the years , successive treaties have centralised power in Brussels , in a way that is understood by a tiny minority – who can always be sure of knocking on the right door in tolhe Berlaymont , or paying someone to do so on thie behalf – but which is wholly opaque to the broad mass of the public . That was one of the main reasons people voted to leave, and that is why it is so essential that we get on with it now and carry out that mandate by Oct 31 st . If we fail again and kick the can down he road , we will continue to undermine trust in politics . If we say that it is not a hard deadline , we will fuel the suspicion that there is a conspiracy to by the elite to frustrate the will of the people . And people will reasonably wonder if October 31 is not the “ hard “ deadline , then what is ? Is it Christmas , the Greek calends ? If we fil yet again , and especially if we thereby increase the risk that the EU demands another referendum before we have delivered the first , we will make a mockery of democracy . We will look like any other obligarchy or monarchy – and thee are – alas – still many examples around the world – where votes are held and the people nominally consulted , but no one takes any notice , because , as in Moscow , the same crew mysteriously stay in power . If we want to uphold liberal values , we must leave by Oct 31 st , and we will . " There is nothing liberal about referendums. They are, more often than not, the tool of demagogues, dictators, populists and authoritarians. The only safe guards to Liberal Democracy are the rule of law and REPRESENTATIVE Democracy via an elected sovereign parliaments which have the power to scrutinize and, if people's representatives feel it's not in the best interests of those they represent, reject any laws put forward by the executive. You make a good speech about Liberal Democracy today, while actually putting forward the very thing that is the complete antithesis of such, but I believe your heart is truly in favour of Vlad the Dictator's (aka Putin) style intolerant, nationalist, anti-liberal authoritarianism that you spent most of this last weekend avidly defending. A leopard doesn't change its spots and certainly not overnight. | |||
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"From the Daily Telegraph “ Boris Johnson has criticised Russian President Vladimir Putin’s claim that liberalism is dead, with the potential Prime Minister saying Britain was the best modern example of the “triumph of liberal values”. The former foreign secretary praised Britain for successfully marrying democracy and the rule of law, as well as describing the UK as a world leader in technology, culture and financial services. “The country that possesses these essential building blocks of liberalism will succeed; the country without them will – eventually – face disaster,” Mr Johnson wrote in the Daily Telegraph.” Oops." Congnative dissonance is the default setting nowadays. This does come from the man who will not rule out suspending Parliament to push Brexit through. | |||
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"From the Daily Telegraph “ Boris Johnson has criticised Russian President Vladimir Putin’s claim that liberalism is dead, with the potential Prime Minister saying Britain was the best modern example of the “triumph of liberal values”. The former foreign secretary praised Britain for successfully marrying democracy and the rule of law, as well as describing the UK as a world leader in technology, culture and financial services. “The country that possesses these essential building blocks of liberalism will succeed; the country without them will – eventually – face disaster,” Mr Johnson wrote in the Daily Telegraph.” Oops. Congnative dissonance is the default setting nowadays. This does come from the man who will not rule out suspending Parliament to push Brexit through." He's just telling us what WE want to hear, just likes he's been doing to the Leavers for 3 years. Yes, I agree with what he's saying on this but do I believe he means a word of it? Not even a chance. | |||
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"From the Daily Telegraph “ Boris Johnson has criticised Russian President Vladimir Putin’s claim that liberalism is dead, with the potential Prime Minister saying Britain was the best modern example of the “triumph of liberal values”. The former foreign secretary praised Britain for successfully marrying democracy and the rule of law, as well as describing the UK as a world leader in technology, culture and financial services. “The country that possesses these essential building blocks of liberalism will succeed; the country without them will – eventually – face disaster,” Mr Johnson wrote in the Daily Telegraph.” Oops. I am assuming that the op is a busy man and did not have time to post the concluding paragraphs of the article . The article was mainly concerning liberalism and finances , whereas the previous post was about liberalism , family values and minority groups being given preferential treatment . The article headline reads “ We will prove Vladimir Putin wrong by leaving the EU by October 31 “ That is why these liberal values are essential , and the cardinal beauty of liberal democracy is that each person is equal . Everyone is equal under the law . Each person has an equal say – an equal franchise – at elections . Which takes us to the great national question , which we are taking so painfully long to resolve . One of the problems with the EU , as it has developed over the past 45 years of our membership is that it has begun seriously to undermine that fundamental characteristic of a liberal democracy , that the people should have the power , at elections , to remove those who make laws . The EU system makes this impossible . Over the years , successive treaties have centralised power in Brussels , in a way that is understood by a tiny minority – who can always be sure of knocking on the right door in tolhe Berlaymont , or paying someone to do so on thie behalf – but which is wholly opaque to the broad mass of the public . That was one of the main reasons people voted to leave, and that is why it is so essential that we get on with it now and carry out that mandate by Oct 31 st . If we fail again and kick the can down he road , we will continue to undermine trust in politics . If we say that it is not a hard deadline , we will fuel the suspicion that there is a conspiracy to by the elite to frustrate the will of the people . And people will reasonably wonder if October 31 is not the “ hard “ deadline , then what is ? Is it Christmas , the Greek calends ? If we fil yet again , and especially if we thereby increase the risk that the EU demands another referendum before we have delivered the first , we will make a mockery of democracy . We will look like any other obligarchy or monarchy – and thee are – alas – still many examples around the world – where votes are held and the people nominally consulted , but no one takes any notice , because , as in Moscow , the same crew mysteriously stay in power . If we want to uphold liberal values , we must leave by Oct 31 st , and we will . There is nothing liberal about referendums. They are, more often than not, the tool of demagogues, dictators, populists and authoritarians. The only safe guards to Liberal Democracy are the rule of law and REPRESENTATIVE Democracy via an elected sovereign parliaments which have the power to scrutinize and, if people's representatives feel it's not in the best interests of those they represent, reject any laws put forward by the executive. You make a good speech about Liberal Democracy today, while actually putting forward the very thing that is the complete antithesis of such, but I believe your heart is truly in favour of Vlad the Dictator's (aka Putin) style intolerant, nationalist, anti-liberal authoritarianism that you spent most of this last weekend avidly defending. A leopard doesn't change its spots and certainly not overnight. " .My post strongly defended Putin's views on family values and the preferential treatment given to minority groups . I never indicated at any stage that I agreed with any of his other policies . Just because someone whole heartly agrees with his opinions on one topic does not indicate that support any of his other policies . | |||
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"From the Daily Telegraph “ Boris Johnson has criticised Russian President Vladimir Putin’s claim that liberalism is dead, with the potential Prime Minister saying Britain was the best modern example of the “triumph of liberal values”. The former foreign secretary praised Britain for successfully marrying democracy and the rule of law, as well as describing the UK as a world leader in technology, culture and financial services. “The country that possesses these essential building blocks of liberalism will succeed; the country without them will – eventually – face disaster,” Mr Johnson wrote in the Daily Telegraph.” Oops. I am assuming that the op is a busy man and did not have time to post the concluding paragraphs of the article . The article was mainly concerning liberalism and finances , whereas the previous post was about liberalism , family values and minority groups being given preferential treatment . The article headline reads “ We will prove Vladimir Putin wrong by leaving the EU by October 31 “ That is why these liberal values are essential , and the cardinal beauty of liberal democracy is that each person is equal . Everyone is equal under the law . Each person has an equal say – an equal franchise – at elections . Which takes us to the great national question , which we are taking so painfully long to resolve . One of the problems with the EU , as it has developed over the past 45 years of our membership is that it has begun seriously to undermine that fundamental characteristic of a liberal democracy , that the people should have the power , at elections , to remove those who make laws . The EU system makes this impossible . Over the years , successive treaties have centralised power in Brussels , in a way that is understood by a tiny minority – who can always be sure of knocking on the right door in tolhe Berlaymont , or paying someone to do so on thie behalf – but which is wholly opaque to the broad mass of the public . That was one of the main reasons people voted to leave, and that is why it is so essential that we get on with it now and carry out that mandate by Oct 31 st . If we fail again and kick the can down he road , we will continue to undermine trust in politics . If we say that it is not a hard deadline , we will fuel the suspicion that there is a conspiracy to by the elite to frustrate the will of the people . And people will reasonably wonder if October 31 is not the “ hard “ deadline , then what is ? Is it Christmas , the Greek calends ? If we fil yet again , and especially if we thereby increase the risk that the EU demands another referendum before we have delivered the first , we will make a mockery of democracy . We will look like any other obligarchy or monarchy – and thee are – alas – still many examples around the world – where votes are held and the people nominally consulted , but no one takes any notice , because , as in Moscow , the same crew mysteriously stay in power . If we want to uphold liberal values , we must leave by Oct 31 st , and we will . There is nothing liberal about referendums. They are, more often than not, the tool of demagogues, dictators, populists and authoritarians. The only safe guards to Liberal Democracy are the rule of law and REPRESENTATIVE Democracy via an elected sovereign parliaments which have the power to scrutinize and, if people's representatives feel it's not in the best interests of those they represent, reject any laws put forward by the executive. You make a good speech about Liberal Democracy today, while actually putting forward the very thing that is the complete antithesis of such, but I believe your heart is truly in favour of Vlad the Dictator's (aka Putin) style intolerant, nationalist, anti-liberal authoritarianism that you spent most of this last weekend avidly defending. A leopard doesn't change its spots and certainly not overnight. .My post strongly defended Putin's views on family values and the preferential treatment given to minority groups . I never indicated at any stage that I agreed with any of his other policies . Just because someone whole heartly agrees with his opinions on one topic does not indicate that support any of his other policies . " You can twist,you can wiggle and you can squirm but we all read it and understood exactly what you were saying and what you were supporting. | |||
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"From the Daily Telegraph “ Boris Johnson has criticised Russian President Vladimir Putin’s claim that liberalism is dead, with the potential Prime Minister saying Britain was the best modern example of the “triumph of liberal values”. The former foreign secretary praised Britain for successfully marrying democracy and the rule of law, as well as describing the UK as a world leader in technology, culture and financial services. “The country that possesses these essential building blocks of liberalism will succeed; the country without them will – eventually – face disaster,” Mr Johnson wrote in the Daily Telegraph.” Oops. I am assuming that the op is a busy man and did not have time to post the concluding paragraphs of the article . The article was mainly concerning liberalism and finances , whereas the previous post was about liberalism , family values and minority groups being given preferential treatment . The article headline reads “ We will prove Vladimir Putin wrong by leaving the EU by October 31 “ That is why these liberal values are essential , and the cardinal beauty of liberal democracy is that each person is equal . Everyone is equal under the law . Each person has an equal say – an equal franchise – at elections . Which takes us to the great national question , which we are taking so painfully long to resolve . One of the problems with the EU , as it has developed over the past 45 years of our membership is that it has begun seriously to undermine that fundamental characteristic of a liberal democracy , that the people should have the power , at elections , to remove those who make laws . The EU system makes this impossible . Over the years , successive treaties have centralised power in Brussels , in a way that is understood by a tiny minority – who can always be sure of knocking on the right door in tolhe Berlaymont , or paying someone to do so on thie behalf – but which is wholly opaque to the broad mass of the public . That was one of the main reasons people voted to leave, and that is why it is so essential that we get on with it now and carry out that mandate by Oct 31 st . If we fail again and kick the can down he road , we will continue to undermine trust in politics . If we say that it is not a hard deadline , we will fuel the suspicion that there is a conspiracy to by the elite to frustrate the will of the people . And people will reasonably wonder if October 31 is not the “ hard “ deadline , then what is ? Is it Christmas , the Greek calends ? If we fil yet again , and especially if we thereby increase the risk that the EU demands another referendum before we have delivered the first , we will make a mockery of democracy . We will look like any other obligarchy or monarchy – and thee are – alas – still many examples around the world – where votes are held and the people nominally consulted , but no one takes any notice , because , as in Moscow , the same crew mysteriously stay in power . If we want to uphold liberal values , we must leave by Oct 31 st , and we will . There is nothing liberal about referendums. They are, more often than not, the tool of demagogues, dictators, populists and authoritarians. The only safe guards to Liberal Democracy are the rule of law and REPRESENTATIVE Democracy via an elected sovereign parliaments which have the power to scrutinize and, if people's representatives feel it's not in the best interests of those they represent, reject any laws put forward by the executive. You make a good speech about Liberal Democracy today, while actually putting forward the very thing that is the complete antithesis of such, but I believe your heart is truly in favour of Vlad the Dictator's (aka Putin) style intolerant, nationalist, anti-liberal authoritarianism that you spent most of this last weekend avidly defending. A leopard doesn't change its spots and certainly not overnight. .My post strongly defended Putin's views on family values and the preferential treatment given to minority groups . I never indicated at any stage that I agreed with any of his other policies . Just because someone whole heartly agrees with his opinions on one topic does not indicate that support any of his other policies . You can twist,you can wiggle and you can squirm but we all read it and understood exactly what you were saying and what you were supporting. " Yours is a rather strange post . I am confident that I made it abundantly clear that I fully supported Putin's view that liberalism had gone too far and has now reached a turning point . I have no need ( to use your terminology I would hsve no need to wiggle or squirm out ) . Many churches in Russia are now packed full with congregations. | |||
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