FabSwingers.com mobile

Join us FREE, we're FREE to use

Web's largest swingers site since 2006.

Already registered?
Login here

Back to forum list
Back to Politics

has the snp minimum alcohol pricing caused a rise in drug deaths?

Jump to newest
 

By *ostafun OP   Man
over a year ago

near ipswich

seems scotland is about to announce that for the 1st time drug related deaths overtake alcohol related deaths.Its the only country in europe that is rising.Just wondering if this has anything to do with a minimum price on alcohol that was introduced a while back or just a coincidence?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

It would require full scientific research, to be able to even make a correlation, let alone anything that's nothing more than that.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ostafun OP   Man
over a year ago

near ipswich


"It would require full scientific research, to be able to even make a correlation, let alone anything that's nothing more than that. "
yeah sure it requires research but when i saw that it got me thinking, if you have an addictive personality and are hooked on alcohol and the government put the price up so drugs become a cheaper alternative would you swap one dependency for another that gives you the same outcome.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

I used to work in NHS in Scotland.

The beds and resources used up by people with serious alcohol problems was shocking.

If deaths from alcohol abuse are declining, that is good news.

Are deaths from drug abuse rising, or just more exposed by the reduction in alcohol causes?

I'd be very wary of drawing a link between the two.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ostafun OP   Man
over a year ago

near ipswich


"I used to work in NHS in Scotland.

The beds and resources used up by people with serious alcohol problems was shocking.

If deaths from alcohol abuse are declining, that is good news.

Are deaths from drug abuse rising, or just more exposed by the reduction in alcohol causes?

I'd be very wary of drawing a link between the two.

"
Only know what was on the news that scotland is the only country in europe that drug deaths are rising where all the other countries are falling thats what got me thinking.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

I do not know enough about the price of Class A drugs.

I did just buy a bottle of malt whisky 30 minutes ago in a shop in a remote bit of Scotland.

£40

Not that I drink the stuff. It's a treat for my gentlemen callers.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ostafun OP   Man
over a year ago

near ipswich


"I do not know enough about the price of Class A drugs.

I did just buy a bottle of malt whisky 30 minutes ago in a shop in a remote bit of Scotland.

£40

Not that I drink the stuff. It's a treat for my gentlemen callers.

"
They were on about "street valium" whatever that is but 30 pence a tab sounds cheaper than beer.Although they were taking about 30 a day.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Prescription med being flogged on the street. Anti-depressant.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ostafun OP   Man
over a year ago

near ipswich


"Prescription med being flogged on the street. Anti-depressant."
Can only go on what i saw but a user said they are not normal Valium but have a highly addictive additive and are deadly when mixed with other stuff.As i say ive no idea if there is any connection just putting it out there.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

It's possible the policy could displace the problem, I don't know.

One of the things I have learned over the years is that substance abuse is a means of coping rather than partying, a way to numb some kind of misery or pain.

There is also evidence that people's susceptibility increases the further north you go in this hemisphere.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West


"seems scotland is about to announce that for the 1st time drug related deaths overtake alcohol related deaths.Its the only country in europe that is rising.Just wondering if this has anything to do with a minimum price on alcohol that was introduced a while back or just a coincidence? "

Highly likely to be connected in my opinion. Drugs laws generally (including alcohol and tobacco) are long die a major overhaul.

Last thing any Govt policy should be doing is driving vulnerable people into the arms of criminal opportunists.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 27/06/19 22:55:02]

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *V-AliceTV/TS
over a year ago

Ayr

Is there any evidence of such a link in Canada, Russia or the US States where minimum pricing for alcohol is in place?

That might answer your question.

The only people whining about it up here were the SWA - all the way to court, to protect their right to profit from damaging lives.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Figures published today.

28 per cent increase in last 12 months.

Most of the increase among over-35s, suggesting long-term drug use.

The so-called Trainspotting generation.

Scotland now on a par with US for per capita drug deaths.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I do not know the answer to the question. However I unerstand there was been a slight fall in hospital treatment and admissions allegedly due to minimum pricing.

However there was not any benchmarking of the possible swap or people from cheap alcohol to cheap drugs. So at present we do not know if this is cause and effect.

The 1000 drug deaths cannot be looked at in isolation. It has been thought many of these deaths are from older addicts.

Analysis is required to get the fuller picture.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *anejohnkent6263Couple
over a year ago

canterbury

In a local club ...glass of wine 5 pound ...bottles of larger 4 pound to get pissed up will cost 50 quid ....but couple of es 8 quid ...wrap of 20 quid ...and other pills even cheaper ....you do the maths as to why it's cheaper to drug than drink ...madnesss

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral


"seems scotland is about to announce that for the 1st time drug related deaths overtake alcohol related deaths.Its the only country in europe that is rising.Just wondering if this has anything to do with a minimum price on alcohol that was introduced a while back or just a coincidence? "
I would say yes as I predicted this when the stupid snp brought in this legislation.They are a party with about as much commonsense as Dianne Abbot.

If drugs become cheaper than alcohol then many will take drugs simple

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral


"It would require full scientific research, to be able to even make a correlation, let alone anything that's nothing more than that. "
So typical of a socialist,do nothing and do research,pathetic,hundreds will die while they do that,action now

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"It would require full scientific research, to be able to even make a correlation, let alone anything that's nothing more than that. So typical of a socialist,do nothing and do research,pathetic,hundreds will die while they do that,action now"

What action are you recommending?

Based on what?

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"

If drugs become cheaper than alcohol then many will take drugs simple"

Er, drugs have always been cheaper.

The people clogging up hospital beds were not drug users. They were alcoholics.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Any stats on drink related deaths? I assume they have fallen...

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So it seems the increase started in 2015 ish. And recent numbers continue the trend. While alcohol prices may play a part it feels a lot deeper than that...

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Really interesting article written by a former chair of the health committee at the Scottish Parliament.

Neil Findlay (Lab MSP). Published in the Morning Star.

"ALBERT Einstein said: “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

Nowhere is this more true than in the current drugs policy.

"As a young man growing up in a mining community in the ’80s and ’90s, cannabis was the drug of choice at that time. Then heroin hit the cities and housing schemes before the rave scene popularised ecstasy.

"A few years ago I chaired a session of the Scottish Parliament health committee. I took the opportunity to tell the then Cabinet Secretary Shona Robinson that the streets of Scotland were now awash with cheap cocaine (the new drug of choice for many) and that this was having a terrible impact on our young people, their families and communities.

"What depressed me about our exchange was the lack of awareness of the extent of the problem and the complete lack or urgency in dealing with it — indeed the impression I got was that she and journalists reporting the committee’s business simply didn’t believe the point I was raising.

"This feeling was exacerbated in subsequent parliamentary exchanges with the Public Health Minister Joe Fitzpatrick — all the more remarkable as his home city of Dundee, the place he represents, has the highest levels of addiction and drugs deaths in Britain and Europe.

"I have to say, I found this thoroughly dispiriting. You only have to open your eyes and ears to see and hear the evidence of this in our pubs, clubs and communities.

"The drugs market has changed. Cocaine, previously only affordable to the middle classes, is now cheap and easily available in every town and village.

"Nine hundred and thirty four drug-related deaths were registered in Scotland in 2017, 8 per cent higher than in the previous year — this year that figure will pass 1,000 and possibly hit 1,200.

"The refrain from some nationalists is that the failure to devolve drugs laws is a major barrier to addressing this crisis. Now I support the call for devolution of drugs powers but drug deaths in Scotland are running at two-and-a-half times the rate of the rest of Britain where the powers are the the same — clearly something else is going on here.

"If we look at the East Midlands and Durham we see Labour police and crime commissioners taking a far more progressive and public health based approach to drugs misuse. They are pushing their powers and the law to the max to deliver an approach that seeks to reduce harm , improve health and avoid criminalising vulnerable and needy people. Scotland should follow this approach now but also seek the devolution of powers.

“The war on drugs” has failed. We have more addicts, more drugs, more drugs-related organised crime, more deaths and more families left without a father, mother, son or daughter.

"I despise drugs and the dealing of drugs and believe those who profit from other people’s misery should be severely dealt with but we have to be honest — arresting a few dealers will soon see them replaced by others and the misery will continue.

"We cannot arrest our way to a drug-free society. From the dawn of civilisation humans have taken mind-altering substances and they will continue to do so no matter what — that is a depressing and harsh reality, so we have to deal with it rather than pretend it will go away with tougher sentences and a harsher regime for those caught in possession. This is fanciful and delusional thinking.

"The reality is we have to change our approach or every year more and more of our fellow citizens will die.

"And the model for change exists — in the ’80s and ’90s Portugal was in the grip of a drugs epidemic that saw a steep rise in HIV infection and death rates soar to the worst in Europe. Something had to be done and it was.

"Portugal decriminalised personal possession of drugs and implemented a major harm reduction and public health programme.

"The new policy was based on three pillars: that there’s no such thing as a soft or hard drug, only healthy and unhealthy relationships with drugs; that an individual’s unhealthy relationship with drugs often conceals wider personal problems (relationship breakdown, violence, poor mental health etc); and that the eradication of all illegal drug use is an impossible goal.

"This reflects the discussions I’ve had with the drug-using community in Scotland. Most harmful users have resorted to drugs because of trauma or major negative events in their lives and unless these issues are addressed then the user will lurch from one substance or behaviour to another, all while never coming to terms or being able to cope with their trauma.

"The Portuguese policy treats everyone as individuals, resulting in the number of people voluntarily entering treatment increasing significantly.

"HIV infection has dropped dramatically, down 52 per cent, jail sentences for drug-related offences have decreased and the rates of problematic drug use are down.

"And the headline drug deaths rate has gone from more than 1,000 a year to about 50 per year.

"While the focus of the discussion in Scotland in recent months has been about safe-injecting rooms, in reality this is a relatively small part of a bigger jigsaw.

"What we need is a change of mindset and an approach that looks at how we help drug users live safe, well and crime-free, and help them get the treatment they need to address their underlying issues and their drugs use.

"The results from Portugal suggest this would be far more productive than arresting and re-arresting the same offenders without addressing what is at the root of their problems."

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

When I moved to Bristol City Centre in 2012, it was one of the most surprising things for me - how popular the cocaine habit is.

I can think of two regular users I met - men in their 30s - who are dead now.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ostafun OP   Man
over a year ago

near ipswich


"Really interesting article written by a former chair of the health committee at the Scottish Parliament.

Neil Findlay (Lab MSP). Published in the Morning Star.

"ALBERT Einstein said: “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

Nowhere is this more true than in the current drugs policy.

"As a young man growing up in a mining community in the ’80s and ’90s, cannabis was the drug of choice at that time. Then heroin hit the cities and housing schemes before the rave scene popularised ecstasy.

"A few years ago I chaired a session of the Scottish Parliament health committee. I took the opportunity to tell the then Cabinet Secretary Shona Robinson that the streets of Scotland were now awash with cheap cocaine (the new drug of choice for many) and that this was having a terrible impact on our young people, their families and communities.

"What depressed me about our exchange was the lack of awareness of the extent of the problem and the complete lack or urgency in dealing with it — indeed the impression I got was that she and journalists reporting the committee’s business simply didn’t believe the point I was raising.

"This feeling was exacerbated in subsequent parliamentary exchanges with the Public Health Minister Joe Fitzpatrick — all the more remarkable as his home city of Dundee, the place he represents, has the highest levels of addiction and drugs deaths in Britain and Europe.

"I have to say, I found this thoroughly dispiriting. You only have to open your eyes and ears to see and hear the evidence of this in our pubs, clubs and communities.

"The drugs market has changed. Cocaine, previously only affordable to the middle classes, is now cheap and easily available in every town and village.

"Nine hundred and thirty four drug-related deaths were registered in Scotland in 2017, 8 per cent higher than in the previous year — this year that figure will pass 1,000 and possibly hit 1,200.

"The refrain from some nationalists is that the failure to devolve drugs laws is a major barrier to addressing this crisis. Now I support the call for devolution of drugs powers but drug deaths in Scotland are running at two-and-a-half times the rate of the rest of Britain where the powers are the the same — clearly something else is going on here.

"If we look at the East Midlands and Durham we see Labour police and crime commissioners taking a far more progressive and public health based approach to drugs misuse. They are pushing their powers and the law to the max to deliver an approach that seeks to reduce harm , improve health and avoid criminalising vulnerable and needy people. Scotland should follow this approach now but also seek the devolution of powers.

“The war on drugs” has failed. We have more addicts, more drugs, more drugs-related organised crime, more deaths and more families left without a father, mother, son or daughter.

"I despise drugs and the dealing of drugs and believe those who profit from other people’s misery should be severely dealt with but we have to be honest — arresting a few dealers will soon see them replaced by others and the misery will continue.

"We cannot arrest our way to a drug-free society. From the dawn of civilisation humans have taken mind-altering substances and they will continue to do so no matter what — that is a depressing and harsh reality, so we have to deal with it rather than pretend it will go away with tougher sentences and a harsher regime for those caught in possession. This is fanciful and delusional thinking.

"The reality is we have to change our approach or every year more and more of our fellow citizens will die.

"And the model for change exists — in the ’80s and ’90s Portugal was in the grip of a drugs epidemic that saw a steep rise in HIV infection and death rates soar to the worst in Europe. Something had to be done and it was.

"Portugal decriminalised personal possession of drugs and implemented a major harm reduction and public health programme.

"The new policy was based on three pillars: that there’s no such thing as a soft or hard drug, only healthy and unhealthy relationships with drugs; that an individual’s unhealthy relationship with drugs often conceals wider personal problems (relationship breakdown, violence, poor mental health etc); and that the eradication of all illegal drug use is an impossible goal.

"This reflects the discussions I’ve had with the drug-using community in Scotland. Most harmful users have resorted to drugs because of trauma or major negative events in their lives and unless these issues are addressed then the user will lurch from one substance or behaviour to another, all while never coming to terms or being able to cope with their trauma.

"The Portuguese policy treats everyone as individuals, resulting in the number of people voluntarily entering treatment increasing significantly.

"HIV infection has dropped dramatically, down 52 per cent, jail sentences for drug-related offences have decreased and the rates of problematic drug use are down.

"And the headline drug deaths rate has gone from more than 1,000 a year to about 50 per year.

"While the focus of the discussion in Scotland in recent months has been about safe-injecting rooms, in reality this is a relatively small part of a bigger jigsaw.

"What we need is a change of mindset and an approach that looks at how we help drug users live safe, well and crime-free, and help them get the treatment they need to address their underlying issues and their drugs use.

"The results from Portugal suggest this would be far more productive than arresting and re-arresting the same offenders without addressing what is at the root of their problems."

"
cheap cocaine ????? wonder where he gets his.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

"What we need is a change of mindset and an approach that looks at how we help drug users live safe, well and crime-free, and help them get the treatment they need to address their underlying issues and their drugs use.

"The results from Portugal suggest this would be far more productive than arresting and re-arresting the same offenders without addressing what is at the root of their problems."

"

If they were never let back out they wouldn't end up being arrested and re-arrested over & over.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"

cheap cocaine ????? wonder where he gets his. "

I don't use it but I can vouch for how widespread its use is among working class folks.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ostafun OP   Man
over a year ago

near ipswich


"

cheap cocaine ????? wonder where he gets his.

I don't use it but I can vouch for how widespread its use is among working class folks.

"
Yeah i know sara but its not cheap like some drugs.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

When I first moved to Bristol, I met this gorgeous, really fit man a few times. Sex was amazing.

A few years later and he is back in touch.

Still good looking, still hot.

Sex is nothing like it was. His brain is mush, too. All over the place.

Hooked on crack.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ostafun OP   Man
over a year ago

near ipswich


"When I first moved to Bristol, I met this gorgeous, really fit man a few times. Sex was amazing.

A few years later and he is back in touch.

Still good looking, still hot.

Sex is nothing like it was. His brain is mush, too. All over the place.

Hooked on crack.

"
crack has to be as bad as heroin if not worse i feel sorry for people who go down that road.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *V-AliceTV/TS
over a year ago

Ayr

Clearly, this is a tragic, complicated thing - which is nothing to do with slightly more expensive alcohol.

I don't have a solution but I can't help thinking that Scotland would have nothing to lose by trying the Portuguese method.

A bit like London would have nothing to lose in trying Glasgow's approach to knife crime.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"seems scotland is about to announce that for the 1st time drug related deaths overtake alcohol related deaths.Its the only country in europe that is rising.Just wondering if this has anything to do with a minimum price on alcohol that was introduced a while back or just a coincidence? "
wasnt it 'drug related deaths among the young(teens)?even more sad..I think you make a good point re alcohol price increases

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral


"It would require full scientific research, to be able to even make a correlation, let alone anything that's nothing more than that. So typical of a socialist,do nothing and do research,pathetic,hundreds will die while they do that,action now

What action are you recommending?

Based on what?

"
No idea up to the perole on those areas to work it out,there are scemes out there I believe

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral


"

If drugs become cheaper than alcohol then many will take drugs simple

Er, drugs have always been cheaper.

The people clogging up hospital beds were not drug users. They were alcoholics.

"
Not true it has changed over the years

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"It would require full scientific research, to be able to even make a correlation, let alone anything that's nothing more than that. So typical of a socialist,do nothing and do research,pathetic,hundreds will die while they do that,action now

What action are you recommending?

Based on what?

No idea up to the perole on those areas to work it out,there are scemes out there I believe"

So you think they should examine the evidence of what works and try that?

I think that is known as research.

Congratulations, you have just completed a full circle.

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By *anejohnkent6263Couple
over a year ago

canterbury

Maybe the dwarf woman should concentrate on real issue's....instead of spouting the same old crap

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am certainly no friend of the SNP,but it is very difficult to see why the price of alcohol would be so directly linked to drug deaths

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
 
 

By *ostafun OP   Man
over a year ago

near ipswich


"Maybe the dwarf woman should concentrate on real issue's....instead of spouting the same old crap"
Its all fandabbydozzie

Reply privatelyReply in forumReply +quote
Post new Message to Thread
back to top