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caroline flint

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By *ostafun OP   Man
over a year ago

near ipswich

Nice to see her say today that she would back a boris no deal brexit rather than have a second referendum.Seems she and 25 other labour mps have sent a letter to corbyn urging him not to take the party down the 2nd referendum road.She told andrew marr it could the party at least 40 seats in a general election.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lots of proper lefties (not he liberal types) are anti EU. As I’ve said before my late mother used to sell militant newspaper and she hated the then common market.

Seems like Labour are as divided as ever...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Nice to see her say today that she would back a boris no deal brexit rather than have a second referendum.Seems she and 25 other labour mps have sent a letter to corbyn urging him not to take the party down the 2nd referendum road.She told andrew marr it could the party at least 40 seats in a general election."

So it's "mop head" over "ferret face"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Nice to see her say today that she would back a boris no deal brexit rather than have a second referendum.Seems she and 25 other labour mps have sent a letter to corbyn urging him not to take the party down the 2nd referendum road.She told andrew marr it could the party at least 40 seats in a general election."

What Labour really needs is to decide once and for all what it really represents regarding Brexit.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"Nice to see her say today that she would back a boris no deal brexit rather than have a second referendum.Seems she and 25 other labour mps have sent a letter to corbyn urging him not to take the party down the 2nd referendum road.She told andrew marr it could the party at least 40 seats in a general election."

funny enough you'll find that a lot of the mp's on twitter who have signed this letter and have distanced themselves from her...

for example stephen kinnock has said that were he does not a 2nd referendum, he would not support a no deal exit either...

gareth snell (another of the signed) has said he would not support a no deal, but if it came down to another vote of mays deal, this time he would vote yes if it got it thru....

so its not a clear cut as you are trying to say it is costa........

again... if you want to be in the "misleading" camp with your friends centy and pat... you are doing a good job

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By *ostafun OP   Man
over a year ago

near ipswich


"Lots of proper lefties (not he liberal types) are anti EU. As I’ve said before my late mother used to sell militant newspaper and she hated the then common market.

Seems like Labour are as divided as ever..."
Seems so Tom watson was talking today saying that labour must back remain as they will get slaughtered in a GE if they dont.I think they are caught between a rock and a hard place but just goes to show a total disregard for the referendum and just looking for the best outcome for themselves.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"Nice to see her say today that she would back a boris no deal brexit rather than have a second referendum.Seems she and 25 other labour mps have sent a letter to corbyn urging him not to take the party down the 2nd referendum road.She told andrew marr it could the party at least 40 seats in a general election."

there is another quirk that she kinda failed to mention as well....

to form a government they care going to need to gain seats from "somewhere" (unless they think the snp and the lib dems are going to do all the heavy lifting for them)

top 50 target labour seats to gain..... they voted remain 53-47

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By *ostafun OP   Man
over a year ago

near ipswich


"Nice to see her say today that she would back a boris no deal brexit rather than have a second referendum.Seems she and 25 other labour mps have sent a letter to corbyn urging him not to take the party down the 2nd referendum road.She told andrew marr it could the party at least 40 seats in a general election.

funny enough you'll find that a lot of the mp's on twitter who have signed this letter and have distanced themselves from her...

for example stephen kinnock has said that were he does not a 2nd referendum, he would not support a no deal exit either...

gareth snell (another of the signed) has said he would not support a no deal, but if it came down to another vote of mays deal, this time he would vote yes if it got it thru....

so its not a clear cut as you are trying to say it is costa........

again... if you want to be in the "misleading" camp with your friends centy and pat... you are doing a good job"
Try reading my post again _abio instead of just jumping in.I never said the other 25 would vote with boris i said they signed a letter to not go down the 2ns referendum.Its ok i dont expect an apology.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think they are caught between a rock and a hard place but just goes to show a total disregard for the referendum "

The Conservatives held the referendum not Labour.

Every political party does not have to promise to do the same things, referendum or no referendum.

If Labour decides to change tack then that's their decision.

That's the whole idea of different political parties, to offer a different choice.

If enough people feel they want a certain outcome then the party offering that scenario will be voted into power at the next General Election anyway.

Brexit is owned by the Tories and every other Political party can democratically have opposing views and do not have to honour their rivals so called commitments.

If you don't like other political parties stances then don't vote for them at the ballot box instead of moaning they should uphold something a rival party has promised and yes I know Labour have promised to uphold the referendum result but it's their choice if wish to change direction.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The Leave / Remain campaigns were cross party, it wasn't Conservative v Labour. No party owns it, parliament does and they need to deliver it. If they don't extreme politics will be the result and no ordinary person wants that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The Leave / Remain campaigns were cross party, it wasn't Conservative v Labour. No party owns it, parliament does and they need to deliver it. If they don't extreme politics will be the result and no ordinary person wants that."

The party that called the referendum owns it.

Labour previously refused to hold a referendum when they were in Government.

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By *ostafun OP   Man
over a year ago

near ipswich


"The Leave / Remain campaigns were cross party, it wasn't Conservative v Labour. No party owns it, parliament does and they need to deliver it. If they don't extreme politics will be the result and no ordinary person wants that.

The party that called the referendum owns it.

Labour previously refused to hold a referendum when they were in Government. "
Not quiet true there was an election after the referendum and both parties said they would honour the referendum.The lib/dems were honest and said they would not and look how many mps they got.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

The party that called the referendum owns it.

Labour previously refused to hold a referendum when they were in Government. Not quiet true there was an election after the referendum and both parties said they would honour the referendum.The lib/dems were honest and said they would not and look how many mps they got."

I know and if you read 3 posts up you'll see I cover that aspect too

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By *ostafun OP   Man
over a year ago

near ipswich


"

The party that called the referendum owns it.

Labour previously refused to hold a referendum when they were in Government. Not quiet true there was an election after the referendum and both parties said they would honour the referendum.The lib/dems were honest and said they would not and look how many mps they got.

I know and if you read 3 posts up you'll see I cover that aspect too "
i see so you think its ok to tell the public one thing then when elected do the opposite? interesting.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

The party that called the referendum owns it.

Labour previously refused to hold a referendum when they were in Government. Not quiet true there was an election after the referendum and both parties said they would honour the referendum.The lib/dems were honest and said they would not and look how many mps they got.

I know and if you read 3 posts up you'll see I cover that aspect too i see so you think its ok to tell the public one thing then when elected do the opposite? interesting. "

If you hadn't noticed that's exactly what political parties do mate.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


"

The party that called the referendum owns it.

Labour previously refused to hold a referendum when they were in Government. Not quiet true there was an election after the referendum and both parties said they would honour the referendum.The lib/dems were honest and said they would not and look how many mps they got.

I know and if you read 3 posts up you'll see I cover that aspect too i see so you think its ok to tell the public one thing then when elected do the opposite? interesting. "

But what both the Conservatives and Labour promised in the 2017 general election was to Leave the EU with a better trade deal than we currently have. So far no such deal has materialised. I don't remember either the Conservatives or Labour saying in the 2017 General Election that they would Leave the EU with either a worse trade deal than we currently have or with no trade deal at all. Doing either of those would be the breach of their manifestoes that you talk about.

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby


"The Leave / Remain campaigns were cross party, it wasn't Conservative v Labour. No party owns it, parliament does and they need to deliver it. If they don't extreme politics will be the result and no ordinary person wants that.

The party that called the referendum owns it.

Labour previously refused to hold a referendum when they were in Government. "

It was not the tories who called the referendum. They put forward a bill in parliament to hold a referendum. Which was voted through by 544 to 53. It was parliament who decided to hold a referendum.

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By *ostafun OP   Man
over a year ago

near ipswich


"The Leave / Remain campaigns were cross party, it wasn't Conservative v Labour. No party owns it, parliament does and they need to deliver it. If they don't extreme politics will be the result and no ordinary person wants that.

The party that called the referendum owns it.

Labour previously refused to hold a referendum when they were in Government.

It was not the tories who called the referendum. They put forward a bill in parliament to hold a referendum. Which was voted through by 544 to 53. It was parliament who decided to hold a referendum. "
Dont tell them the truth they wont like it.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

A referendum on EU membership was included in the manifesto of the Conservative Party in 2015.

No other party made such an offer.

The Conservative Party won the 2015 election (much to Cameron's surprise, apparently).

Parliamentary convention dictates that Parliament does not oppose policies contained in the manifesto of the party that wins.

To suggest this is anything other than Conservative Party policy (one to counter the loss of its vote-share to UKIP) really is at odd with the facts.

The Conservative Party delivered the referendum and it has claimed ownership of delivering Brexit.

It is made entirely in the Conservative Party.

A cross-party consensus on its delivery was never offered.

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By *ostafun OP   Man
over a year ago

near ipswich


"A referendum on EU membership was included in the manifesto of the Conservative Party in 2015.

No other party made such an offer.

The Conservative Party won the 2015 election (much to Cameron's surprise, apparently).

Parliamentary convention dictates that Parliament does not oppose policies contained in the manifesto of the party that wins.

To suggest this is anything other than Conservative Party policy (one to counter the loss of its vote-share to UKIP) really is at odd with the facts.

The Conservative Party delivered the referendum and it has claimed ownership of delivering Brexit.

It is made entirely in the Conservative Party.

A cross-party consensus on its delivery was never offered."
Parliamentary convention dictates that Parliament does not oppose policies contained in the manifesto of the party that wins.What! where did you get that from? its the oppositions job to oppose whether its in the manifesto or not do you honestly believe what you are saying?

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

That is why the Lords will not block policy derived from a manifesto - it has a mandate from the electorate.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

How can you stand there and argue it is the Opposition's job to oppose, and then complain the Opposition is not siding with the Government to implement its policy?

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By *ostafun OP   Man
over a year ago

near ipswich


"How can you stand there and argue it is the Opposition's job to oppose, and then complain the Opposition is not siding with the Government to implement its policy?"
.Oppose when it has a different mandate yes.Labour mps were elected on a manifesto to honour the referendum they also voted to trigger A50 and knew the consequences of that but now have changed there minds not really fair on all the people who voted for them expecting them to do what they promised.I really hope we get another election soon they will be destroyed.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

You are overlooking the facts.

Labour policy since 2017 was to apply six tests to the terms for leaving the EU.

Only if those six tests were met would they take the UK out of the EU.

That was their manifesto position.

Mrs May drew up a different set of red lines and took the Government down that route.

Labour opposed this consistently because it did not meet the six tests.

Hence Labour opposed the terms put to Parliament for the UK's exit.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Mrs May knew her party was utterly split and needed the head room of 70 or 80 more MPs to drive through her agenda.

That backfired and she ended up as a minority administration.

A wiser leader then, knowing she had dozens of fanatics on her own side who would refuse to back a compromise, would have sought common cause with other parties and formed a non-partisan consensus.

She did the opposite. She circled the wagons and kept control in a tight clique around her.

The idiocy of her strategy became apparent in December when she suffered the greatest setback in British Parliamentary history.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

None of the major parties sttof on a manifesto of no deal.

You could squint and say the tories used words which suggested they may not be able to get a deal... But they did. So all bets are off there.

Labour went down the CU route. No deal deffo isn't under that.

We need to stop claiming they are going against their manifesto, unless we are able to back it up with quotes from their manifesto....

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby


"A referendum on EU membership was included in the manifesto of the Conservative Party in 2015.

No other party made such an offer.

The Conservative Party won the 2015 election (much to Cameron's surprise, apparently).

Parliamentary convention dictates that Parliament does not oppose policies contained in the manifesto of the party that wins.

To suggest this is anything other than Conservative Party policy (one to counter the loss of its vote-share to UKIP) really is at odd with the facts.

The Conservative Party delivered the referendum and it has claimed ownership of delivering Brexit.

It is made entirely in the Conservative Party.

A cross-party consensus on its delivery was never offered."

Parliament decided that May's deal was a bad deal....so what does the 2017 manifesto of the conservative party say?

"The negotiations will undoubtedly be tough, and there will be give and take on both sides, but we continue to believe that no deal is better than a bad deal for the UK."

So much for the parliamentary convention of not opposing policies of the party in government's manifesto.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

May did not win the election.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"A referendum on EU membership was included in the manifesto of the Conservative Party in 2015.

No other party made such an offer.

The Conservative Party won the 2015 election (much to Cameron's surprise, apparently).

Parliamentary convention dictates that Parliament does not oppose policies contained in the manifesto of the party that wins.

To suggest this is anything other than Conservative Party policy (one to counter the loss of its vote-share to UKIP) really is at odd with the facts.

The Conservative Party delivered the referendum and it has claimed ownership of delivering Brexit.

It is made entirely in the Conservative Party.

A cross-party consensus on its delivery was never offered.

Parliament decided that May's deal was a bad deal....so what does the 2017 manifesto of the conservative party say?

"The negotiations will undoubtedly be tough, and there will be give and take on both sides, but we continue to believe that no deal is better than a bad deal for the UK."

So much for the parliamentary convention of not opposing policies of the party in government's manifesto."

So much for the convention of voting for policies in your own manifesto....

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By *wosmilersCouple
over a year ago

Heathrowish


"May did not win the election."

Actually, nobody won including the electorate....

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

Hilarious seeing people trying to palm some of the blame for the referendum off on Labour.

Almost like it's painfully obvious what a terrible idea it was. But surely Brexit true believers should be defending the referendum?

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Just remind them that if they had the support of every member of their party... they would not need anyone else to pass legislation...

Just putting it out there

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The Leave / Remain campaigns were cross party, it wasn't Conservative v Labour. No party owns it, parliament does and they need to deliver it. If they don't extreme politics will be the result and no ordinary person wants that.

The party that called the referendum owns it.

Labour previously refused to hold a referendum when they were in Government.

It was not the tories who called the referendum. They put forward a bill in parliament to hold a referendum. Which was voted through by 544 to 53. It was parliament who decided to hold a referendum. "

Splitting hairs there don't you think...

Labour refused in the past to hold one, the Tories decided to do it.

The Tories own Brexit, no one else.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There is no way we would have got our referendum off a Labour government, then again we only got it off the Tories because they were shit scared of Nige. Now they have started making noises about delivering by the next deadline, but that is only because of the BREXIT Party.

Our Nige has still got them on the run!

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