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No deal back on the table?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Taking a no deal BREXIT off the table was the biggest own goal of this administration. Not just because many of us would like to see it happen, but because it was our biggest bargaining chip. As a consequence we a dawdling aimlessly towards our withdrawal with both arms behind our backs.

Whether one agrees that it would be the best outcome for the UK or not, it would be a bad outcome for the EU. They don’t want us to crash out, not because of how it might or might not affect the UK, but because of the negative affects it will have on them.

Taking the possibility off the table was stupid, we might have well have given the EU permission to make all the decisions, allow them to point at us and laugh, while they tell us exactly how we are going to leave.

I hope the next prime minister has the brains and the guts to bring it back.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Taking a no deal BREXIT off the table was the biggest own goal of this administration. Not just because many of us would like to see it happen, but because it was our biggest bargaining chip. As a consequence we a dawdling aimlessly towards our withdrawal with both arms behind our backs.

Whether one agrees that it would be the best outcome for the UK or not, it would be a bad outcome for the EU. They don’t want us to crash out, not because of how it might or might not affect the UK, but because of the negative affects it will have on them.

Taking the possibility off the table was stupid, we might have well have given the EU permission to make all the decisions, allow them to point at us and laugh, while they tell us exactly how we are going to leave.

I hope the next prime minister has the brains and the guts to bring it back."

They can’t , parliament won’t vote for a no deal. It is time for a second referendum

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Taking a no deal BREXIT off the table was the biggest own goal of this administration. Not just because many of us would like to see it happen, but because it was our biggest bargaining chip. As a consequence we a dawdling aimlessly towards our withdrawal with both arms behind our backs.

Whether one agrees that it would be the best outcome for the UK or not, it would be a bad outcome for the EU. They don’t want us to crash out, not because of how it might or might not affect the UK, but because of the negative affects it will have on them.

Taking the possibility off the table was stupid, we might have well have given the EU permission to make all the decisions, allow them to point at us and laugh, while they tell us exactly how we are going to leave.

I hope the next prime minister has the brains and the guts to bring it back.

They can’t , parliament won’t vote for a no deal. It is time for a second referendum "

Maybe its time to hire the the A-Team

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Taking a no deal BREXIT off the table was the biggest own goal of this administration. Not just because many of us would like to see it happen, but because it was our biggest bargaining chip. As a consequence we a dawdling aimlessly towards our withdrawal with both arms behind our backs.

Whether one agrees that it would be the best outcome for the UK or not, it would be a bad outcome for the EU. They don’t want us to crash out, not because of how it might or might not affect the UK, but because of the negative affects it will have on them.

Taking the possibility off the table was stupid, we might have well have given the EU permission to make all the decisions, allow them to point at us and laugh, while they tell us exactly how we are going to leave.

I hope the next prime minister has the brains and the guts to bring it back.

They can’t , parliament won’t vote for a no deal. It is time for a second referendum "

The Tories won’t support a second referendum, Labour only want another “yawn” general election, nobody trusts the LibDems, and outside of Brighton and Hove the Greens are far too small.

So there is probably more chance of us leaving, by default, with no deal. But for those who wants deal, taking the choice of no deal off the table was political suicide.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Was there ever a sign the EU were blinking. No deal was a stronger negotiation tool for them than us.

The key reason for this is most eu countries do more more than 7% of their import/export business with us. So any hit from tariffs will be relatively small.

However we're at more like 40%. So there will be larger ripples...

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

So the punch them in the nose as they also punch us in the nose and whilst we will both suffer we think they will suffer a bit more strategy is still in people's thought processes as a viable option..?

Tell you what why don't we lower our privates into a tank of hungry piranhas too, ie the WTO option as a bonus..

Then we can truly say we've taken back control..

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I think that our time in limbo, still tethered to the EU but with no say in it, is more aligned to dangling our whatsits in a bucket of piranha than WTO.

Like mushrooms we are being kept in the dark and fed on shit. Remoaner bull shit from the house of treason.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *wosmilersCouple
over a year ago

Heathrowish

I am still a little in the dark about where we stand.

Although Parliament has voted to express a preference not to leave on a no deal basis, what happens if a new PM decides not to approach the EU for an extension and a deal acceptable to the EU is not agreed by Parliament?

Does this mean that the UK leaves without an interim deal on 31st October and then both sides will need to concentrate on a long term deal with greater urgency?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I am still a little in the dark about where we stand.

Although Parliament has voted to express a preference not to leave on a no deal basis, what happens if a new PM decides not to approach the EU for an extension and a deal acceptable to the EU is not agreed by Parliament?

Does this mean that the UK leaves without an interim deal on 31st October and then both sides will need to concentrate on a long term deal with greater urgency?"

That’s about the size of it, we have gone from being able to walk away, to allowing the EU to kick us out any time they like.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Taking a no deal BREXIT off the table was the biggest own goal of this administration. Not just because many of us would like to see it happen, but because it was our biggest bargaining chip. As a consequence we a dawdling aimlessly towards our withdrawal with both arms behind our backs.

Whether one agrees that it would be the best outcome for the UK or not, it would be a bad outcome for the EU. They don’t want us to crash out, not because of how it might or might not affect the UK, but because of the negative affects it will have on them.

Taking the possibility off the table was stupid, we might have well have given the EU permission to make all the decisions, allow them to point at us and laugh, while they tell us exactly how we are going to leave.

I hope the next prime minister has the brains and the guts to bring it back.

They can’t , parliament won’t vote for a no deal. It is time for a second referendum

The Tories won’t support a second referendum, Labour only want another “yawn” general election, nobody trusts the LibDems, and outside of Brighton and Hove the Greens are far too small.

So there is probably more chance of us leaving, by default, with no deal. But for those who wants deal, taking the choice of no deal off the table was political suicide."

Who in their right mind wants a No deal? It’s going to be a second referendum

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I don’t care what any half head has to say about my state of mind. I am well in favour of leaving without a deal, if a good deal is not offered.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

totally agree the most stupid vote ever.Any deal should have the option to walk away.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I don’t care what any half head has to say about my state of mind. I am well in favour of leaving without a deal, if a good deal is not offered."

It will be a second referendum, the MPs can’t or are to scared to decide so it will go back to the public vote, are you confident a no deal will win??

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"

I hope the next prime minister has the brains and the guts to bring it back."

the next prime minister wont try and bring it back... because they would walk straight into a "no confidence" vote they would lose.... which would just bring on a general election....

what is more like to happen is the next prime minister will walk into brussels blowing "hot air".... get nothing in concessions... and then when they have to go an get another extension in october, the EU then say you can have one if you have a "potentially politically changing event" (general election or 2nd ref)

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

It's quite fun how Brexiteers continually moan about being labelled as stupid, yet keep promoting stupid ideas, such as that no deal is more scary and problematic for the EU than it is for us.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *anejohnkent6263Couple
over a year ago

canterbury

Tell the eu to stick it up there arse ...go bojo

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich


"It's quite fun how Brexiteers continually moan about being labelled as stupid, yet keep promoting stupid ideas, such as that no deal is more scary and problematic for the EU than it is for us.

"
Stupid is trying to do a deal with no leverage.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

I hope the next prime minister has the brains and the guts to bring it back.

the next prime minister wont try and bring it back... because they would walk straight into a "no confidence" vote they would lose.... which would just bring on a general election....

what is more like to happen is the next prime minister will walk into brussels blowing "hot air".... get nothing in concessions... and then when they have to go an get another extension in october, the EU then say you can have one if you have a "potentially politically changing event" (general election or 2nd ref)"

What is more likely to happen is just a little (lol) different to your version.

Of course the next leader would be taking a big risk if he (or she) tried to put no deal back on the table. The damage there has already been done I’m afraid. We will as you say get to October with no agreement, and try to get another extension. The chances are that we will be told that we had our extension and to fuck off with nothing.

So we get a no deal BREXIT, but the world will see us booted out, instead of making the decision for ourselves.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Tell the eu to stick it up there arse ...go bojo"

Lol

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I hope the next prime minister has the brains and the guts to bring it back.

the next prime minister wont try and bring it back... because they would walk straight into a "no confidence" vote they would lose.... which would just bring on a general election....

what is more like to happen is the next prime minister will walk into brussels blowing "hot air".... get nothing in concessions... and then when they have to go an get another extension in october, the EU then say you can have one if you have a "potentially politically changing event" (general election or 2nd ref)

What is more likely to happen is just a little (lol) different to your version.

Of course the next leader would be taking a big risk if he (or she) tried to put no deal back on the table. The damage there has already been done I’m afraid. We will as you say get to October with no agreement, and try to get another extension. The chances are that we will be told that we had our extension and to fuck off with nothing.

So we get a no deal BREXIT, but the world will see us booted out, instead of making the decision for ourselves."

Which (if your being honest) is the worst possible outcome??

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *bandjam91Couple
over a year ago

London


"

I hope the next prime minister has the brains and the guts to bring it back.

the next prime minister wont try and bring it back... because they would walk straight into a "no confidence" vote they would lose.... which would just bring on a general election....

what is more like to happen is the next prime minister will walk into brussels blowing "hot air".... get nothing in concessions... and then when they have to go an get another extension in october, the EU then say you can have one if you have a "potentially politically changing event" (general election or 2nd ref)

What is more likely to happen is just a little (lol) different to your version.

Of course the next leader would be taking a big risk if he (or she) tried to put no deal back on the table. The damage there has already been done I’m afraid. We will as you say get to October with no agreement, and try to get another extension. The chances are that we will be told that we had our extension and to fuck off with nothing.

So we get a no deal BREXIT, but the world will see us booted out, instead of making the decision for ourselves."

You're dreaming. Revoking article 50 is more likely than that. Peoples Vote it is.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I hope the next prime minister has the brains and the guts to bring it back.

the next prime minister wont try and bring it back... because they would walk straight into a "no confidence" vote they would lose.... which would just bring on a general election....

what is more like to happen is the next prime minister will walk into brussels blowing "hot air".... get nothing in concessions... and then when they have to go an get another extension in october, the EU then say you can have one if you have a "potentially politically changing event" (general election or 2nd ref)

What is more likely to happen is just a little (lol) different to your version.

Of course the next leader would be taking a big risk if he (or she) tried to put no deal back on the table. The damage there has already been done I’m afraid. We will as you say get to October with no agreement, and try to get another extension. The chances are that we will be told that we had our extension and to fuck off with nothing.

So we get a no deal BREXIT, but the world will see us booted out, instead of making the decision for ourselves.

You're dreaming. Revoking article 50 is more likely than that. Peoples Vote it is."

Exactly, and let’s see if a no deal is really the ‘will of the people ‘

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

I hope the next prime minister has the brains and the guts to bring it back.

the next prime minister wont try and bring it back... because they would walk straight into a "no confidence" vote they would lose.... which would just bring on a general election....

what is more like to happen is the next prime minister will walk into brussels blowing "hot air".... get nothing in concessions... and then when they have to go an get another extension in october, the EU then say you can have one if you have a "potentially politically changing event" (general election or 2nd ref)

What is more likely to happen is just a little (lol) different to your version.

Of course the next leader would be taking a big risk if he (or she) tried to put no deal back on the table. The damage there has already been done I’m afraid. We will as you say get to October with no agreement, and try to get another extension. The chances are that we will be told that we had our extension and to fuck off with nothing.

So we get a no deal BREXIT, but the world will see us booted out, instead of making the decision for ourselves.

Which (if your being honest) is the worst possible outcome??"

IMHO the worst outcome would be to leave the EU but stay in the single market and/or the customs union. That would put us outside the tent pissing in.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ok a people's vote and remain win by 52% so we stay in the EU. If you voted leave just shut up because the people have spoken, and you have no right to question it. My God it would tear the country apart, can't have another vote get real.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The only way I see a WTO Brexit is by the next PM refusing an extension and letting the clock run down while trying to blame it all on the EU.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"

I hope the next prime minister has the brains and the guts to bring it back.

the next prime minister wont try and bring it back... because they would walk straight into a "no confidence" vote they would lose.... which would just bring on a general election....

what is more like to happen is the next prime minister will walk into brussels blowing "hot air".... get nothing in concessions... and then when they have to go an get another extension in october, the EU then say you can have one if you have a "potentially politically changing event" (general election or 2nd ref)

What is more likely to happen is just a little (lol) different to your version.

Of course the next leader would be taking a big risk if he (or she) tried to put no deal back on the table. The damage there has already been done I’m afraid. We will as you say get to October with no agreement, and try to get another extension. The chances are that we will be told that we had our extension and to fuck off with nothing.

So we get a no deal BREXIT, but the world will see us booted out, instead of making the decision for ourselves."

One major flaw in your 'cunning plan' is that you seem not to have yet realised or won't accept that the EU are as against the no deal option as are the vast majority of businesses, members of both houses and the public..

They'll extend again on some fudge to avoid that..

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ok a people's vote and remain win by 52% so we stay in the EU. If you voted leave just shut up because the people have spoken, and you have no right to question it. My God it would tear the country apart, can't have another vote get real."

Yes you can, and yes we will. If the majority vote to leave on a the only option , that is a no deal you won’t get complaints from me (I voted to remain)

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

I hope the next prime minister has the brains and the guts to bring it back.

the next prime minister wont try and bring it back... because they would walk straight into a "no confidence" vote they would lose.... which would just bring on a general election....

what is more like to happen is the next prime minister will walk into brussels blowing "hot air".... get nothing in concessions... and then when they have to go an get another extension in october, the EU then say you can have one if you have a "potentially politically changing event" (general election or 2nd ref)

What is more likely to happen is just a little (lol) different to your version.

Of course the next leader would be taking a big risk if he (or she) tried to put no deal back on the table. The damage there has already been done I’m afraid. We will as you say get to October with no agreement, and try to get another extension. The chances are that we will be told that we had our extension and to fuck off with nothing.

So we get a no deal BREXIT, but the world will see us booted out, instead of making the decision for ourselves.

One major flaw in your 'cunning plan' is that you seem not to have yet realised or won't accept that the EU are as against the no deal option as are the vast majority of businesses, members of both houses and the public..

They'll extend again on some fudge to avoid that.. "

It was never my “cunning plan.” I would like a no deal, but not on their terms. I’d rather the world saw us leave with our heads held high. The rest of the world are watching, be in no doubt about that. They are much less likely to do business with us if we don’t leave under our own steam.

You could be right about the fudging though

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I hope the next prime minister has the brains and the guts to bring it back.

the next prime minister wont try and bring it back... because they would walk straight into a "no confidence" vote they would lose.... which would just bring on a general election....

what is more like to happen is the next prime minister will walk into brussels blowing "hot air".... get nothing in concessions... and then when they have to go an get another extension in october, the EU then say you can have one if you have a "potentially politically changing event" (general election or 2nd ref)

What is more likely to happen is just a little (lol) different to your version.

Of course the next leader would be taking a big risk if he (or she) tried to put no deal back on the table. The damage there has already been done I’m afraid. We will as you say get to October with no agreement, and try to get another extension. The chances are that we will be told that we had our extension and to fuck off with nothing.

So we get a no deal BREXIT, but the world will see us booted out, instead of making the decision for ourselves.

One major flaw in your 'cunning plan' is that you seem not to have yet realised or won't accept that the EU are as against the no deal option as are the vast majority of businesses, members of both houses and the public..

They'll extend again on some fudge to avoid that..

It was never my “cunning plan.” I would like a no deal, but not on their terms. I’d rather the world saw us leave with our heads held high. The rest of the world are watching, be in no doubt about that. They are much less likely to do business with us if we don’t leave under our own steam.

You could be right about the fudging though "

Unfortunately we are beyond the point of leaving with our ‘heads held high’ we are a laughing stock

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

I hope the next prime minister has the brains and the guts to bring it back.

the next prime minister wont try and bring it back... because they would walk straight into a "no confidence" vote they would lose.... which would just bring on a general election....

what is more like to happen is the next prime minister will walk into brussels blowing "hot air".... get nothing in concessions... and then when they have to go an get another extension in october, the EU then say you can have one if you have a "potentially politically changing event" (general election or 2nd ref)

What is more likely to happen is just a little (lol) different to your version.

Of course the next leader would be taking a big risk if he (or she) tried to put no deal back on the table. The damage there has already been done I’m afraid. We will as you say get to October with no agreement, and try to get another extension. The chances are that we will be told that we had our extension and to fuck off with nothing.

So we get a no deal BREXIT, but the world will see us booted out, instead of making the decision for ourselves.

One major flaw in your 'cunning plan' is that you seem not to have yet realised or won't accept that the EU are as against the no deal option as are the vast majority of businesses, members of both houses and the public..

They'll extend again on some fudge to avoid that..

It was never my “cunning plan.” I would like a no deal, but not on their terms. I’d rather the world saw us leave with our heads held high. The rest of the world are watching, be in no doubt about that. They are much less likely to do business with us if we don’t leave under our own steam.

You could be right about the fudging though

Unfortunately we are beyond the point of leaving with our ‘heads held high’ we are a laughing stock "

Yes, because the people voted leave but the govt don’t want to. However I doubt the EU are happy with the probability of 40 BREXIT Party MEP’s taking seats in their parliament.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I hope the next prime minister has the brains and the guts to bring it back.

the next prime minister wont try and bring it back... because they would walk straight into a "no confidence" vote they would lose.... which would just bring on a general election....

what is more like to happen is the next prime minister will walk into brussels blowing "hot air".... get nothing in concessions... and then when they have to go an get another extension in october, the EU then say you can have one if you have a "potentially politically changing event" (general election or 2nd ref)

What is more likely to happen is just a little (lol) different to your version.

Of course the next leader would be taking a big risk if he (or she) tried to put no deal back on the table. The damage there has already been done I’m afraid. We will as you say get to October with no agreement, and try to get another extension. The chances are that we will be told that we had our extension and to fuck off with nothing.

So we get a no deal BREXIT, but the world will see us booted out, instead of making the decision for ourselves.

One major flaw in your 'cunning plan' is that you seem not to have yet realised or won't accept that the EU are as against the no deal option as are the vast majority of businesses, members of both houses and the public..

They'll extend again on some fudge to avoid that..

It was never my “cunning plan.” I would like a no deal, but not on their terms. I’d rather the world saw us leave with our heads held high. The rest of the world are watching, be in no doubt about that. They are much less likely to do business with us if we don’t leave under our own steam.

You could be right about the fudging though

Unfortunately we are beyond the point of leaving with our ‘heads held high’ we are a laughing stock

Yes, because the people voted leave but the govt don’t want to. However I doubt the EU are happy with the probability of 40 BREXIT Party MEP’s taking seats in their parliament."

Every class room / large office has it's own set of wankers and twats, the normal people learn to ignore them and get on with things best they can, European Parliament will be no different.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I hope the next prime minister has the brains and the guts to bring it back.

the next prime minister wont try and bring it back... because they would walk straight into a "no confidence" vote they would lose.... which would just bring on a general election....

what is more like to happen is the next prime minister will walk into brussels blowing "hot air".... get nothing in concessions... and then when they have to go an get another extension in october, the EU then say you can have one if you have a "potentially politically changing event" (general election or 2nd ref)

What is more likely to happen is just a little (lol) different to your version.

Of course the next leader would be taking a big risk if he (or she) tried to put no deal back on the table. The damage there has already been done I’m afraid. We will as you say get to October with no agreement, and try to get another extension. The chances are that we will be told that we had our extension and to fuck off with nothing.

So we get a no deal BREXIT, but the world will see us booted out, instead of making the decision for ourselves.

One major flaw in your 'cunning plan' is that you seem not to have yet realised or won't accept that the EU are as against the no deal option as are the vast majority of businesses, members of both houses and the public..

They'll extend again on some fudge to avoid that..

It was never my “cunning plan.” I would like a no deal, but not on their terms. I’d rather the world saw us leave with our heads held high. The rest of the world are watching, be in no doubt about that. They are much less likely to do business with us if we don’t leave under our own steam.

You could be right about the fudging though

Unfortunately we are beyond the point of leaving with our ‘heads held high’ we are a laughing stock

Yes, because the people voted leave but the govt don’t want to. However I doubt the EU are happy with the probability of 40 BREXIT Party MEP’s taking seats in their parliament.

Every class room / large office has it's own set of wankers and twats, the normal people learn to ignore them and get on with things best they can, European Parliament will be no different. "

You're delusional. The European Parliament won't be able to ignore a majority block of anti EU MEP's from all over Europe as they will dominate proceedings! For the first time ever it now looks like a majority block of anti EU MEP's from all over Europe (FvD in Holland, AfD in Germany, The League and 5 Star in Italy, Front National in France, and Euroskepic MEP's from other places like Hungary, Poland, Finland and Denmark will join forces under one banner lead by Matteo Salvini in the European Parliament. EU arse licking, Brussels brown nosing fan boys like you are in for a big shock on Sunday night when the results come in from all over Europe, not just the results in the UK.

If the EU won't let us Leave, and the remainer UK Parliament won't let us leave, then the European people will make damn sure we destroy the anti democratic, overbearing, bureaucratic nightmare that the EU has become from the inside.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"

I hope the next prime minister has the brains and the guts to bring it back.

the next prime minister wont try and bring it back... because they would walk straight into a "no confidence" vote they would lose.... which would just bring on a general election....

what is more like to happen is the next prime minister will walk into brussels blowing "hot air".... get nothing in concessions... and then when they have to go an get another extension in october, the EU then say you can have one if you have a "potentially politically changing event" (general election or 2nd ref)

What is more likely to happen is just a little (lol) different to your version.

Of course the next leader would be taking a big risk if he (or she) tried to put no deal back on the table. The damage there has already been done I’m afraid. We will as you say get to October with no agreement, and try to get another extension. The chances are that we will be told that we had our extension and to fuck off with nothing.

So we get a no deal BREXIT, but the world will see us booted out, instead of making the decision for ourselves.

One major flaw in your 'cunning plan' is that you seem not to have yet realised or won't accept that the EU are as against the no deal option as are the vast majority of businesses, members of both houses and the public..

They'll extend again on some fudge to avoid that..

It was never my “cunning plan.” I would like a no deal, but not on their terms. I’d rather the world saw us leave with our heads held high. The rest of the world are watching, be in no doubt about that. They are much less likely to do business with us if we don’t leave under our own steam.

You could be right about the fudging though "

It's far too late for any pretenses, we have and do look stupid..

Incompetent and inept and its all self inflicted..

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"

I hope the next prime minister has the brains and the guts to bring it back.

the next prime minister wont try and bring it back... because they would walk straight into a "no confidence" vote they would lose.... which would just bring on a general election....

what is more like to happen is the next prime minister will walk into brussels blowing "hot air".... get nothing in concessions... and then when they have to go an get another extension in october, the EU then say you can have one if you have a "potentially politically changing event" (general election or 2nd ref)

What is more likely to happen is just a little (lol) different to your version.

Of course the next leader would be taking a big risk if he (or she) tried to put no deal back on the table. The damage there has already been done I’m afraid. We will as you say get to October with no agreement, and try to get another extension. The chances are that we will be told that we had our extension and to fuck off with nothing.

So we get a no deal BREXIT, but the world will see us booted out, instead of making the decision for ourselves.

One major flaw in your 'cunning plan' is that you seem not to have yet realised or won't accept that the EU are as against the no deal option as are the vast majority of businesses, members of both houses and the public..

They'll extend again on some fudge to avoid that..

It was never my “cunning plan.” I would like a no deal, but not on their terms. I’d rather the world saw us leave with our heads held high. The rest of the world are watching, be in no doubt about that. They are much less likely to do business with us if we don’t leave under our own steam.

You could be right about the fudging though

Unfortunately we are beyond the point of leaving with our ‘heads held high’ we are a laughing stock

Yes, because the people voted leave but the govt don’t want to. However I doubt the EU are happy with the probability of 40 BREXIT Party MEP’s taking seats in their parliament.

Every class room / large office has it's own set of wankers and twats, the normal people learn to ignore them and get on with things best they can, European Parliament will be no different.

You're delusional. The European Parliament won't be able to ignore a majority block of anti EU MEP's from all over Europe as they will dominate proceedings! For the first time ever it now looks like a majority block of anti EU MEP's from all over Europe (FvD in Holland, AfD in Germany, The League and 5 Star in Italy, Front National in France, and Euroskepic MEP's from other places like Hungary, Poland, Finland and Denmark will join forces under one banner lead by Matteo Salvini in the European Parliament. EU arse licking, Brussels brown nosing fan boys like you are in for a big shock on Sunday night when the results come in from all over Europe, not just the results in the UK.

If the EU won't let us Leave, and the remainer UK Parliament won't let us leave, then the European people will make damn sure we destroy the anti democratic, overbearing, bureaucratic nightmare that the EU has become from the inside."

You do sound more like Centy every day..

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Yes, we shot ourselves in one foot in 2016 so let's point the gun at our other foot and threaten to fire unless the EU backs down.

Every study carried out shows that the UK takes by far the largest hit from a no-deal exit, followed by Ireland, Netherlands and Germany. Their share of the collateral damage is a small fraction of the UK's.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West


"Taking a no deal BREXIT off the table was the biggest own goal of this administration. Not just because many of us would like to see it happen, but because it was our biggest bargaining chip. As a consequence we a dawdling aimlessly towards our withdrawal with both arms behind our backs.

Whether one agrees that it would be the best outcome for the UK or not, it would be a bad outcome for the EU. They don’t want us to crash out, not because of how it might or might not affect the UK, but because of the negative affects it will have on them.

Taking the possibility off the table was stupid, we might have well have given the EU permission to make all the decisions, allow them to point at us and laugh, while they tell us exactly how we are going to leave.

I hope the next prime minister has the brains and the guts to bring it back."

I just don’t understand why Brexiters get such a hard on talking about “no deal.”? What exactly am I missing?

Brexit is dumb enough as it is but to walk away from all of the institutions and agencies that we have been instrumental in creating and which benefit us massively (irrespective of “trade”) is about the worst idea imaginable.

What is truly potty though is how people think that putting that stupid situation on the table is somehow a benefit to our negotiating position.

I can just imagine BoJo’s conversation in Brussell’s... “Give us what we want buddy - or we will spontaneously combust and destroy ourselves... We mean it.”

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

A $20 tn economy does not yield to the demands of a $3tn economy. It is the fundamental flaw in their argument.

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By *mokey and the bandit 1Couple
over a year ago

Dublin

Threatening a no deal Brexit is like holding yourself hostage and telling the negotiator that you're going to cut off you leg if they don't give you what you want

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You can never go into a car showroom and tell the salesman your buying whatever happens, its sheer madness. Always be prepared to walk and most often you'll be called back.

I was always very pro EU before I woke up to the fact its now a bureaucratic fascist state, whats the point of the parliament, it has no real power. They so arrogant not one contingency has been put in place for the gap we'll be leaving in their finances.

There is a lot of confusion about what democracy is, democracy in its purest form is unworkable but what does is give the ability to remove, the EU doesn't respect that.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Fascist state?

You just had a vote to leave it.

Hardly the hallmark of a fascist state, is it?

And given the role of the UK over the last 40 years, by your reckoning the UK must be part of that fascist conspiracy.

This place gets madder evert day.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes, we shot ourselves in one foot in 2016 so let's point the gun at our other foot and threaten to fire unless the EU backs down.

Every study carried out shows that the UK takes by far the largest hit from a no-deal exit, followed by Ireland, Netherlands and Germany. Their share of the collateral damage is a small fraction of the UK's.

"

The damage done to democracy in the UK if the referendum result is not implemented and delivered on will be irreparable and is a far greater threat than any so called economic threat. Democracy is the absolute bedrock of our society, and if that is damaged or trashed then we have nothing, because society will disintegrate.

The country voted to leave, so the democratic verdict must be delivered on.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes, we shot ourselves in one foot in 2016 so let's point the gun at our other foot and threaten to fire unless the EU backs down.

Every study carried out shows that the UK takes by far the largest hit from a no-deal exit, followed by Ireland, Netherlands and Germany. Their share of the collateral damage is a small fraction of the UK's.

The damage done to democracy in the UK if the referendum result is not implemented and delivered on will be irreparable and is a far greater threat than any so called economic threat. Democracy is the absolute bedrock of our society, and if that is damaged or trashed then we have nothing, because society will disintegrate.

The country voted to leave, so the democratic verdict must be delivered on. "

Arguably They voted to leave with a deal... So no deal is undemocratic...

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Good luck trying to eat democracy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Fascist state?

You just had a vote to leave it.

Hardly the hallmark of a fascist state, is it?

And given the role of the UK over the last 40 years, by your reckoning the UK must be part of that fascist conspiracy.

This place gets madder evert day.

"
We haven't left have we, Hitler had votes and only went through with the ones he wanted, there were general elections in the USSR, vote communist or communist.

The issue with the EU is simple the people with the power cannot be removed, like Hitler, like Stalin on thing missing is the camps for those who disagree, oh wait we have hate speech now, its coming.

I had a argument in the pub the other day who is the worst generation of all time, well it might surprise you to know, its ours the baby boomers because we've allowed this to happen when the likes of thatcher warned us.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes, we shot ourselves in one foot in 2016 so let's point the gun at our other foot and threaten to fire unless the EU backs down.

Every study carried out shows that the UK takes by far the largest hit from a no-deal exit, followed by Ireland, Netherlands and Germany. Their share of the collateral damage is a small fraction of the UK's.

The damage done to democracy in the UK if the referendum result is not implemented and delivered on will be irreparable and is a far greater threat than any so called economic threat. Democracy is the absolute bedrock of our society, and if that is damaged or trashed then we have nothing, because society will disintegrate.

The country voted to leave, so the democratic verdict must be delivered on.

Arguably They voted to leave with a deal... So no deal is undemocratic... "

No, they didn't vote to leave with a deal. The question on the ballot paper said do you want to Leave or Remain.

The country said Leave.

There was nothing on the ballot paper about a deal.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes, we shot ourselves in one foot in 2016 so let's point the gun at our other foot and threaten to fire unless the EU backs down.

Every study carried out shows that the UK takes by far the largest hit from a no-deal exit, followed by Ireland, Netherlands and Germany. Their share of the collateral damage is a small fraction of the UK's.

The damage done to democracy in the UK if the referendum result is not implemented and delivered on will be irreparable and is a far greater threat than any so called economic threat. Democracy is the absolute bedrock of our society, and if that is damaged or trashed then we have nothing, because society will disintegrate.

The country voted to leave, so the democratic verdict must be delivered on.

Arguably They voted to leave with a deal... So no deal is undemocratic...

No, they didn't vote to leave with a deal. The question on the ballot paper said do you want to Leave or Remain.

The country said Leave.

There was nothing on the ballot paper about a deal. "

Or leave without a deal. What we did have is the leave campaign talking a about a deal. And then in the GE the two major parties stood on a deal.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Good luck trying to eat democracy.

"

So you seriously think the country would starve if we left the EU without a deal?

Talk about melodramatic!

The country was completely cut off from Europe during WW2, and was supplied by a combination of domestic produce and supply ships coming from the USA, and other areas of the Commonwealth who were also being attacked by U-boats and somehow the country never starved to death. Go and give your head a wobble.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes, we shot ourselves in one foot in 2016 so let's point the gun at our other foot and threaten to fire unless the EU backs down.

Every study carried out shows that the UK takes by far the largest hit from a no-deal exit, followed by Ireland, Netherlands and Germany. Their share of the collateral damage is a small fraction of the UK's.

The damage done to democracy in the UK if the referendum result is not implemented and delivered on will be irreparable and is a far greater threat than any so called economic threat. Democracy is the absolute bedrock of our society, and if that is damaged or trashed then we have nothing, because society will disintegrate.

The country voted to leave, so the democratic verdict must be delivered on.

Arguably They voted to leave with a deal... So no deal is undemocratic...

No, they didn't vote to leave with a deal. The question on the ballot paper said do you want to Leave or Remain.

The country said Leave.

There was nothing on the ballot paper about a deal.

Or leave without a deal. What we did have is the leave campaign talking a about a deal. And then in the GE the two major parties stood on a deal. "

...and now it looks like the Brexit party have won the European election on a platform of leaving with no deal.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes, we shot ourselves in one foot in 2016 so let's point the gun at our other foot and threaten to fire unless the EU backs down.

Every study carried out shows that the UK takes by far the largest hit from a no-deal exit, followed by Ireland, Netherlands and Germany. Their share of the collateral damage is a small fraction of the UK's.

The damage done to democracy in the UK if the referendum result is not implemented and delivered on will be irreparable and is a far greater threat than any so called economic threat. Democracy is the absolute bedrock of our society, and if that is damaged or trashed then we have nothing, because society will disintegrate.

The country voted to leave, so the democratic verdict must be delivered on.

Arguably They voted to leave with a deal... So no deal is undemocratic...

No, they didn't vote to leave with a deal. The question on the ballot paper said do you want to Leave or Remain.

The country said Leave.

There was nothing on the ballot paper about a deal.

Or leave without a deal. What we did have is the leave campaign talking a about a deal. And then in the GE the two major parties stood on a deal.

...and now it looks like the Brexit party have won the European election on a platform of leaving with no deal. "

Be interesting so see the %. Winning isn't the same as a majority. In terms or Brexit, its just a glorified poll as the elected MEPs can't enact the promises. That's a GE or referndem only.

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By *anejohnkent6263Couple
over a year ago

canterbury

No it was a good indicator about public feeling ....torys fucked...Labour fucked ....libs ...not a chance...greens ..do make me laugh ...remain party ..who are ya ...Nigel...job done ...well done big balls

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

Been saying for weeks it will be no deal

We must be praperd properly we do not have long

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Been saying for weeks it will be no deal

We must be praperd properly we do not have long"

And recognise that no deal is more than just trade. It's been a long time since anyone as mentioned the impact statements (or whet ever they were called) and recognising that even where the eu offered an olive branch they were restrictive and often temporary.

MPs need to be honest about what no deal means. And how it compares to today. Without the usual spin.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Of course hardcore Brexiters want No Deal, the worst possible outcome for this country, the best outcome for Farage & friends. The UK isn't that important if you think we can make insane demands to the rest of the world.

Oh well, have your No Deal and enjoy selling our country to America and China under the illusion of "taking back control" as they get to dictate our standards cause they have us by the balls.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West


"You can never go into a car showroom and tell the salesman your buying whatever happens, its sheer madness. Always be prepared to walk and most often you'll be called back.

I was always very pro EU before I woke up to the fact its now a bureaucratic fascist state, whats the point of the parliament, it has no real power. They so arrogant not one contingency has been put in place for the gap we'll be leaving in their finances.

There is a lot of confusion about what democracy is, democracy in its purest form is unworkable but what does is give the ability to remove, the EU doesn't respect that."

The problem with your analogy is that “walking away” actually refers to continuing the status quo - ie not changing anything and remaining in the EU. You are in the car showroom already being legally tied to the ownership of the car - walking out does not mean you no longer own it. We are going through a divorce and similarly there is no walking away from legal and fiscal obligations just because things get complicated.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

Can a Brexiter tell me how leaving without a deal with the EU will impact aircraft manufacturing in this country? Thanks.

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By *anejohnkent6263Couple
over a year ago

canterbury

Can someone tell me will it affect my kebab house ...

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon


"Fascist state?

You just had a vote to leave it.

Hardly the hallmark of a fascist state, is it?

And given the role of the UK over the last 40 years, by your reckoning the UK must be part of that fascist conspiracy.

This place gets madder evert day.

"

Someone needs to take off the rose-tinted specs.

The EU don't want us to leave, and are making it difficult ("we will punish them for leaving"), as a lesson to any other country who thinks of leaving.

They bought this on themselves, by telling Cameron to fuck off, rather than listening to his concerns and dealing with them.

Sometimes, you have to accept that a relationship isn't working, and end it.

I'd rather all sides had come to a deal that was mutually beneficial, but that hasn't happened. Taking "No deal" off the table was a bad idea.

Ireland now know that "no deal" would hit them the worst, so having it back in the mix would hopefully put pressure on them to stop raising so many objections, the border issue can be sorted, if they get onboard with some positivity.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

A no deal brexit has never been off the table.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Fascist state?

You just had a vote to leave it.

Hardly the hallmark of a fascist state, is it?

And given the role of the UK over the last 40 years, by your reckoning the UK must be part of that fascist conspiracy.

This place gets madder evert day.

Someone needs to take off the rose-tinted specs.

The EU don't want us to leave, and are making it difficult ("we will punish them for leaving"), as a lesson to any other country who thinks of leaving.

They bought this on themselves, by telling Cameron to fuck off, rather than listening to his concerns and dealing with them.

Sometimes, you have to accept that a relationship isn't working, and end it.

I'd rather all sides had come to a deal that was mutually beneficial, but that hasn't happened. Taking "No deal" off the table was a bad idea.

Ireland now know that "no deal" would hit them the worst, so having it back in the mix would hopefully put pressure on them to stop raising so many objections, the border issue can be sorted, if they get onboard with some positivity."

12% of Irish exports are to uk. Isnt it something like 40% of uk exports are to the EU.

If the Irish feel the trade pressure then we'd feel it harder.

Irelands bigger concern is peace. Not trade.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral


"Been saying for weeks it will be no deal

We must be praperd properly we do not have long

And recognise that no deal is more than just trade. It's been a long time since anyone as mentioned the impact statements (or whet ever they were called) and recognising that even where the eu offered an olive branch they were restrictive and often temporary.

MPs need to be honest about what no deal means. And how it compares to today. Without the usual spin. "
True but it will happen and we need a proper effort to minimise the effects so the long term prosperity that brexit will bring comes sooner rather than later

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"Good luck trying to eat democracy.

So you seriously think the country would starve if we left the EU without a deal?

"

Yay, it won't be as bad as WWII

I can just imagine your average citizen, who normally wakes up wondering if they have enough money to food on the table, or pay the electric bill, or maybe go on holiday year after next . . . saying: "You know what, I don't care about that, I want democracy."

Dream on.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral


"Can a Brexiter tell me how leaving without a deal with the EU will impact aircraft manufacturing in this country? Thanks."
Good question,and I live near a lot of employees at Broughton they are my neihbours.They seem to have the attitude that there skills will keep them safe,not easy to shift the production to another country.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral


"Good luck trying to eat democracy.

So you seriously think the country would starve if we left the EU without a deal?

Yay, it won't be as bad as WWII

I can just imagine your average citizen, who normally wakes up wondering if they have enough money to food on the table, or pay the electric bill, or maybe go on holiday year after next . . . saying: "You know what, I don't care about that, I want democracy."

Dream on.

"
Yes this could happen if Corbyn and Mcdonald get in now that scares me.In or out of EU they will ruin this country

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Every class room / large office has it's own set of wankers and twats, the normal people learn to ignore them and get on with things best they can, European Parliament will be no different.

You're delusional.

EU arse licking, Brussels brown nosing fan boys like you are in for a big shock on Sunday night when the results come in from all over Europe, not just the results in the UK.

If the EU won't let us Leave.... "

I suppose you get errect or something slagging people off just because you don't agree with them, keyboard warrior single finger typing your abusive comments while wanking furiously I imagine.

Sad sad little man syndrome in full flow and what's the stupid comment about the EU not letting us leave... how are they stopping us from leaving ?

They aren't, they can't, leaving is totally within our control, yet you call me delusional....

Keep up the hate if it's giving you fulfilment in some twisted way, I suppose I should pitty you really.

I know we voted to leave, I've said we should leave because it's the democratic thing to do even though we're 3 years in after the vote and there's still no tangible positives about Brexit, but I am not driven by hate and bile like you seem to be so while leaving still has no real benefits I don't abuse those who wish to leave.

Yes I'll challenge flawed reasons for leaving which covers nearly every reason given for leaving I still believe it's what we should do but sending a load of tossers and twats to Brussels won't bring Brexit any faster.

Maybe you should go too, might help, you may fit in well

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West


"Can a Brexiter tell me how leaving without a deal with the EU will impact aircraft manufacturing in this country? Thanks.Good question,and I live near a lot of employees at Broughton they are my neihbours.They seem to have the attitude that there skills will keep them safe,not easy to shift the production to another country."

Having skills and attitude is not a replacement for EASA certification though is it?

What will happen to Broughton manufacturing (and elsewhere) when we walk away from EASA?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Been saying for weeks it will be no deal

We must be praperd properly we do not have long

And recognise that no deal is more than just trade. It's been a long time since anyone as mentioned the impact statements (or whet ever they were called) and recognising that even where the eu offered an olive branch they were restrictive and often temporary.

MPs need to be honest about what no deal means. And how it compares to today. Without the usual spin. True but it will happen and we need a proper effort to minimise the effects so the long term prosperity that brexit will bring comes sooner rather than later"

That effort can only come once we get our heads out of the sand. The longer we pretend that no deal feels like being in the eu just without the immigration and eu fee then the harder the bump is going to be. However i fear many are unwilling to have this adult conversation for fear of voter backlash. I just can't see any other reason for it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Taking a no deal BREXIT off the table was the biggest own goal of this administration. Not just because many of us would like to see it happen, but because it was our biggest bargaining chip. As a consequence we a dawdling aimlessly towards our withdrawal with both arms behind our backs.

Whether one agrees that it would be the best outcome for the UK or not, it would be a bad outcome for the EU. They don’t want us to crash out, not because of how it might or might not affect the UK, but because of the negative affects it will have on them.

Taking the possibility off the table was stupid, we might have well have given the EU permission to make all the decisions, allow them to point at us and laugh, while they tell us exactly how we are going to leave.

I hope the next prime minister has the brains and the guts to bring it back.

They can’t , parliament won’t vote for a no deal. It is time for a second referendum

The Tories won’t support a second referendum, Labour only want another “yawn” general election, nobody trusts the LibDems, and outside of Brighton and Hove the Greens are far too small.

So there is probably more chance of us leaving, by default, with no deal. But for those who wants deal, taking the choice of no deal off the table was political suicide."

No deal was always the riskiest but best deal IMO.

We would always be in a better position than any position where the EU is telling us what we can or cannot do.

A second referendum would be the worst thing that could happen. We will see an complete new repeat of what has just happened in the past 2 years but with different issues.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

How many households are living in poverty?

3,000,000?

4,000,000?

Levels of personal indebtedness are now back at levels not seen since before the financial crash.

You may be sufficiently immune from the economic fall-out to believe that leaping into the wilderness in pursuit of unicorns is the be all and end all.

I suspect millions have other priorities on their mind.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Taking a no deal BREXIT off the table was the biggest own goal of this administration. Not just because many of us would like to see it happen, but because it was our biggest bargaining chip. As a consequence we a dawdling aimlessly towards our withdrawal with both arms behind our backs.

Whether one agrees that it would be the best outcome for the UK or not, it would be a bad outcome for the EU. They don’t want us to crash out, not because of how it might or might not affect the UK, but because of the negative affects it will have on them.

Taking the possibility off the table was stupid, we might have well have given the EU permission to make all the decisions, allow them to point at us and laugh, while they tell us exactly how we are going to leave.

I hope the next prime minister has the brains and the guts to bring it back.

They can’t , parliament won’t vote for a no deal. It is time for a second referendum

The Tories won’t support a second referendum, Labour only want another “yawn” general election, nobody trusts the LibDems, and outside of Brighton and Hove the Greens are far too small.

So there is probably more chance of us leaving, by default, with no deal. But for those who wants deal, taking the choice of no deal off the table was political suicide.

No deal was always the riskiest but best deal IMO.

We would always be in a better position than any position where the EU is telling us what we can or cannot do.

A second referendum would be the worst thing that could happen. We will see an complete new repeat of what has just happened in the past 2 years but with different issues."

Well if you’re a Brexiteer and the vote still came out as leave the it would be cut and dried as it would leave regardless of a deal or no.

If you were a remainer and the vote went the other way then it would show that many people have changed their minds or have become more informed in what it actually means to go it alone.

But the far right will have none of it because they just say they won so that’s it!

What gets me is that a lot of the people who think they will be any better off will be in the same situation as they are now.

Either way it’s still going to take years to sort it out and in the meantime many businesses will be relocating to friendlier shores for their businesses

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Every class room / large office has it's own set of wankers and twats, the normal people learn to ignore them and get on with things best they can, European Parliament will be no different.

You're delusional.

EU arse licking, Brussels brown nosing fan boys like you are in for a big shock on Sunday night when the results come in from all over Europe, not just the results in the UK.

If the EU won't let us Leave....

I suppose you get errect or something slagging people off just because you don't agree with them, keyboard warrior single finger typing your abusive comments while wanking furiously I imagine.

Sad sad little man syndrome in full flow and what's the stupid comment about the EU not letting us leave... how are they stopping us from leaving ?

They aren't, they can't, leaving is totally within our control, yet you call me delusional....

Keep up the hate if it's giving you fulfilment in some twisted way, I suppose I should pitty you really.

I know we voted to leave, I've said we should leave because it's the democratic thing to do even though we're 3 years in after the vote and there's still no tangible positives about Brexit, but I am not driven by hate and bile like you seem to be so while leaving still has no real benefits I don't abuse those who wish to leave.

Yes I'll challenge flawed reasons for leaving which covers nearly every reason given for leaving I still believe it's what we should do but sending a load of tossers and twats to Brussels won't bring Brexit any faster.

Maybe you should go too, might help, you may fit in well

"

You're the one who started being abusive on this thread, calling people "wankers and twats". Those "wankers and twats" as you call them are uk citizens who also vote in elections. Every insult you've just directed at me reflects back on yourself because you're the one who started this shit on this thread. You certainly are driven by hate and bile and you already abused those who wish to leave in your earlier comment (you called them "wankers and twats" in case you've forgotten).

So before you start accusing people of being abusive go and take a long hard look in the mirror, you're just another token remoaner who likes to dish out abuse, who then throws a hissy fit like a spoilt infant when you get some directed back at you in return.

Have a nice day now, try not to throw any milkshakes over anyone on your travels.

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By *avagliamMan
over a year ago

London


"

Every class room / large office has it's own set of wankers and twats, the normal people learn to ignore them and get on with things best they can, European Parliament will be no different.

You're delusional.

EU arse licking, Brussels brown nosing fan boys like you are in for a big shock on Sunday night when the results come in from all over Europe, not just the results in the UK.

If the EU won't let us Leave....

I suppose you get errect or something slagging people off just because you don't agree with them, keyboard warrior single finger typing your abusive comments while wanking furiously I imagine.

Sad sad little man syndrome in full flow and what's the stupid comment about the EU not letting us leave... how are they stopping us from leaving ?

They aren't, they can't, leaving is totally within our control, yet you call me delusional....

Keep up the hate if it's giving you fulfilment in some twisted way, I suppose I should pitty you really.

I know we voted to leave, I've said we should leave because it's the democratic thing to do even though we're 3 years in after the vote and there's still no tangible positives about Brexit, but I am not driven by hate and bile like you seem to be so while leaving still has no real benefits I don't abuse those who wish to leave.

Yes I'll challenge flawed reasons for leaving which covers nearly every reason given for leaving I still believe it's what we should do but sending a load of tossers and twats to Brussels won't bring Brexit any faster.

Maybe you should go too, might help, you may fit in well

You're the one who started being abusive on this thread, calling people "wankers and twats". Those "wankers and twats" as you call them are uk citizens who also vote in elections. Every insult you've just directed at me reflects back on yourself because you're the one who started this shit on this thread. You certainly are driven by hate and bile and you already abused those who wish to leave in your earlier comment (you called them "wankers and twats" in case you've forgotten).

So before you start accusing people of being abusive go and take a long hard look in the mirror, you're just another token remoaner who likes to dish out abuse, who then throws a hissy fit like a spoilt infant when you get some directed back at you in return.

Have a nice day now, try not to throw any milkshakes over anyone on your travels. "

Wankers & twats... Is that a punk band?

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London


"Yes, we shot ourselves in one foot in 2016 so let's point the gun at our other foot and threaten to fire unless the EU backs down.

Every study carried out shows that the UK takes by far the largest hit from a no-deal exit, followed by Ireland, Netherlands and Germany. Their share of the collateral damage is a small fraction of the UK's.

The damage done to democracy in the UK if the referendum result is not implemented and delivered on will be irreparable and is a far greater threat than any so called economic threat. Democracy is the absolute bedrock of our society, and if that is damaged or trashed then we have nothing, because society will disintegrate.

The country voted to leave, so the democratic verdict must be delivered on. "

Nigel Garage -

"In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it."

David Davis -

“If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy.”

Answer your Brexit leaders, nobody else.

They are either liars or they are wrong or there are different rules for different people

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By *wosmilersCouple
over a year ago

Heathrowish


"Taking a no deal BREXIT off the table was the biggest own goal of this administration. Not just because many of us would like to see it happen, but because it was our biggest bargaining chip. As a consequence we a dawdling aimlessly towards our withdrawal with both arms behind our backs.

Whether one agrees that it would be the best outcome for the UK or not, it would be a bad outcome for the EU. They don’t want us to crash out, not because of how it might or might not affect the UK, but because of the negative affects it will have on them.

Taking the possibility off the table was stupid, we might have well have given the EU permission to make all the decisions, allow them to point at us and laugh, while they tell us exactly how we are going to leave.

I hope the next prime minister has the brains and the guts to bring it back.

They can’t , parliament won’t vote for a no deal. It is time for a second referendum

The Tories won’t support a second referendum, Labour only want another “yawn” general election, nobody trusts the LibDems, and outside of Brighton and Hove the Greens are far too small.

So there is probably more chance of us leaving, by default, with no deal. But for those who wants deal, taking the choice of no deal off the table was political suicide.

No deal was always the riskiest but best deal IMO.

We would always be in a better position than any position where the EU is telling us what we can or cannot do.

A second referendum would be the worst thing that could happen. We will see an complete new repeat of what has just happened in the past 2 years but with different issues.

Well if you’re a Brexiteer and the vote still came out as leave the it would be cut and dried as it would leave regardless of a deal or no.

If you were a remainer and the vote went the other way then it would show that many people have changed their minds or have become more informed in what it actually means to go it alone.

But the far right will have none of it because they just say they won so that’s it!

What gets me is that a lot of the people who think they will be any better off will be in the same situation as they are now.

Either way it’s still going to take years to sort it out and in the meantime many businesses will be relocating to friendlier shores for their businesses "

Aren't you falling into the usual trap of labelling Brexiteers as far right and failing to recognise that there are leavers on all sides?

The problem with Brexit is that our established politicals can handle a party political issue and we can all predict where the left and the right stand on such issues. However when the issue involves a non left/right issue, the established politicos run around like headless chickens.

Even Corbyn was never exactly a supporter of the EU....and this is why the Labour position remains fluid so that he can hold his party together despite his instict to leave.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London


"Taking a no deal BREXIT off the table was the biggest own goal of this administration. Not just because many of us would like to see it happen, but because it was our biggest bargaining chip. As a consequence we a dawdling aimlessly towards our withdrawal with both arms behind our backs.

Whether one agrees that it would be the best outcome for the UK or not, it would be a bad outcome for the EU. They don’t want us to crash out, not because of how it might or might not affect the UK, but because of the negative affects it will have on them.

Taking the possibility off the table was stupid, we might have well have given the EU permission to make all the decisions, allow them to point at us and laugh, while they tell us exactly how we are going to leave.

I hope the next prime minister has the brains and the guts to bring it back."

No deal is a bad outcome for everyone.

You do seem to genuinely believe that the threat to leave is an advantage to us. At best it is an equal advantage and disadvantage to us both.

Despite the fact that leavers seem to always characterise "the EU" as some monolithic organisation it really never had been. It is a collection of individual states looking after their own populations as best they can because individual governments and MEPs want to be re-elected.

That means that each country looks at their relationship with us on a bilateral basis. On average each country in the EU sells 6% of its exports to the UK because they sell the remainder to 27 other countries. Each of them will make a judgement on the UK leaving as a maximum 6% drop in trade. However, in this extreme scenario the they would also buy nothing from the UK. The 27 remaining countries can then sell a large proportion of what they used to sell to us to each other.

We, on the other hand, sell 40% of our goods to the EU. So we would lose 40% of our exports in this extreme position with nobody to substitute with.

Can you see why the "no deal", "they need us more than we need them argument" doesn't work?

They are considering their relationship with us as individual countries whereas we are making a more difficult trade relationship with the entire EU.

If we were to try to broker a trade deal with the USA or China, who do you think would be the least interested in compromise?

If we were to do a trade deal with Micronesia, who do you think would be least interested in compromise?

See if you can give a considered answer to these points. I know that you can when you aren't angry and just repeating phrases.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Fascist state?

You just had a vote to leave it.

Hardly the hallmark of a fascist state, is it?

And given the role of the UK over the last 40 years, by your reckoning the UK must be part of that fascist conspiracy.

This place gets madder evert day.

Someone needs to take off the rose-tinted specs.

The EU don't want us to leave, and are making it difficult ("we will punish them for leaving"), as a lesson to any other country who thinks of leaving.

They bought this on themselves, by telling Cameron to fuck off, rather than listening to his concerns and dealing with them.

Sometimes, you have to accept that a relationship isn't working, and end it.

I'd rather all sides had come to a deal that was mutually beneficial, but that hasn't happened. Taking "No deal" off the table was a bad idea.

Ireland now know that "no deal" would hit them the worst, so having it back in the mix would hopefully put pressure on them to stop raising so many objections, the border issue can be sorted, if they get onboard with some positivity."

EU are not punishing anybody! The EU are protecting their union! The fact is the UK naturally want it their way. They didn't win the big negotiations, and therefore have to make a decision - leave no deal but parliament won't agree that. Then there are some options:

GE to elect a government who fight the GE on NO DEAL!

A 2nd referendum

Revoke A50

If a GE produces a result that gives a majority for No Deal then that's what is delivered. Let's have transparency and see what is delivered!

But has anyone got the balls to do it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But it wasn't the government who took no deal off the table.

It was a private members bill submitted by Yvette Cooper and Oliver Letwin that won support by one vote.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Yet another general election? I hear people complaining about low turnouts, and another GE would be a disaster, with the wet behind the ears brigade having their first vote and most of the rest of us not bothering.

We have had way too many general elections, bi elections, EU elections, referendums. People are getting sick of telling the bastards what we want, only for them not to bother delivering.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


"

I hope the next prime minister has the brains and the guts to bring it back.

the next prime minister wont try and bring it back... because they would walk straight into a "no confidence" vote they would lose.... which would just bring on a general election....

what is more like to happen is the next prime minister will walk into brussels blowing "hot air".... get nothing in concessions... and then when they have to go an get another extension in october, the EU then say you can have one if you have a "potentially politically changing event" (general election or 2nd ref)

What is more likely to happen is just a little (lol) different to your version.

Of course the next leader would be taking a big risk if he (or she) tried to put no deal back on the table. The damage there has already been done I’m afraid. We will as you say get to October with no agreement, and try to get another extension. The chances are that we will be told that we had our extension and to fuck off with nothing.

So we get a no deal BREXIT, but the world will see us booted out, instead of making the decision for ourselves.

Which (if your being honest) is the worst possible outcome??

IMHO the worst outcome would be to leave the EU but stay in the single market and/or the customs union. That would put us outside the tent pissing in."

You've finally said one thing I agree with.

Unfortunately that is exactly what was on offer and put forward by the Leave campaigns during the referendum and by both Labour and the Conservatives in the General Election in 2017, so that is the mandate given.

Trying to offer a 'no deal' BREXIT as an answer to that mandate is no more democratic than not leaving at all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Every class room / large office has it's own set of wankers and twats, the normal people learn to ignore them and get on with things best they can, European Parliament will be no different.

You're delusional.

EU arse licking, Brussels brown nosing fan boys like you are in for a big shock on Sunday night when the results come in from all over Europe, not just the results in the UK.

If the EU won't let us Leave....

I suppose you get errect or something slagging people off just because you don't agree with them, keyboard warrior single finger typing your abusive comments while wanking furiously I imagine.

Sad sad little man syndrome in full flow and what's the stupid comment about the EU not letting us leave... how are they stopping us from leaving ?

They aren't, they can't, leaving is totally within our control, yet you call me delusional....

Keep up the hate if it's giving you fulfilment in some twisted way, I suppose I should pitty you really.

I know we voted to leave, I've said we should leave because it's the democratic thing to do even though we're 3 years in after the vote and there's still no tangible positives about Brexit, but I am not driven by hate and bile like you seem to be so while leaving still has no real benefits I don't abuse those who wish to leave.

Yes I'll challenge flawed reasons for leaving which covers nearly every reason given for leaving I still believe it's what we should do but sending a load of tossers and twats to Brussels won't bring Brexit any faster.

Maybe you should go too, might help, you may fit in well

You're the one who started being abusive on this thread, calling people "wankers and twats". Those "wankers and twats" as you call them are uk citizens who also vote in elections. Every insult you've just directed at me reflects back on yourself because you're the one who started this shit on this thread. You certainly are driven by hate and bile and you already abused those who wish to leave in your earlier comment (you called them "wankers and twats" in case you've forgotten).

So before you start accusing people of being abusive go and take a long hard look in the mirror, you're just another token remoaner who likes to dish out abuse, who then throws a hissy fit like a spoilt infant when you get some directed back at you in return.

Have a nice day now, try not to throw any milkshakes over anyone on your travels. "

There's people who want to leave and still do their job properly then there's people with no intention of doing their job while simply causing unrest and division, their the wankers and twats

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I hope the next prime minister has the brains and the guts to bring it back.

the next prime minister wont try and bring it back... because they would walk straight into a "no confidence" vote they would lose.... which would just bring on a general election....

what is more like to happen is the next prime minister will walk into brussels blowing "hot air".... get nothing in concessions... and then when they have to go an get another extension in october, the EU then say you can have one if you have a "potentially politically changing event" (general election or 2nd ref)

What is more likely to happen is just a little (lol) different to your version.

Of course the next leader would be taking a big risk if he (or she) tried to put no deal back on the table. The damage there has already been done I’m afraid. We will as you say get to October with no agreement, and try to get another extension. The chances are that we will be told that we had our extension and to fuck off with nothing.

So we get a no deal BREXIT, but the world will see us booted out, instead of making the decision for ourselves.

One major flaw in your 'cunning plan' is that you seem not to have yet realised or won't accept that the EU are as against the no deal option as are the vast majority of businesses, members of both houses and the public..

They'll extend again on some fudge to avoid that..

It was never my “cunning plan.” I would like a no deal, but not on their terms. I’d rather the world saw us leave with our heads held high. The rest of the world are watching, be in no doubt about that. They are much less likely to do business with us if we don’t leave under our own steam.

You could be right about the fudging though

Unfortunately we are beyond the point of leaving with our ‘heads held high’ we are a laughing stock

Yes, because the people voted leave but the govt don’t want to. However I doubt the EU are happy with the probability of 40 BREXIT Party MEP’s taking seats in their parliament."

40 , absolutely no chance

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Zero Tory MEPs, they say

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Zero Tory MEPs, they say"

It doesn’t matter what party the MEPS represent, at this stage it is irrelevant

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 25/05/19 19:51:27]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Zero Tory MEPs, they say

It doesn’t matter what party the MEPS represent, at this stage it is irrelevant "

As long as we bloody leave

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Brexit wont happen, it is good that the parliament is blocking it as they have the best interest for norther ireland by respecting the good friday, a brexiter doesnt respect it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Zero Tory MEPs, they say

It doesn’t matter what party the MEPS represent, at this stage it is irrelevant

As long as we bloody leave "

That is true, but if we don’t The Brexit party will become irrelevant anyway, The EU parliament will just ignore them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Brexit wont happen, it is good that the parliament is blocking it as they have the best interest for norther ireland by respecting the good friday, a brexiter doesnt respect it."

Controversial, but you have a point. Some brexiters are so consumed by heaving they honestly don’t care who it hurts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Brexit wont happen, it is good that the parliament is blocking it as they have the best interest for norther ireland by respecting the good friday, a brexiter doesnt respect it.

Controversial, but you have a point. Some brexiters are so consumed by heaving they honestly don’t care who it hurts "
I forgot to write agreement after friday there, that is right, you could ask any brexiter and noone will mention northern ireland, that is cos they live in this fantasy utopia of gran bretana, they wont rule the world anymore.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"Zero Tory MEPs, they say

It doesn’t matter what party the MEPS represent, at this stage it is irrelevant "

True. It,s a morass.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Zero Tory MEPs, they say

It doesn’t matter what party the MEPS represent, at this stage it is irrelevant

As long as we bloody leave

That is true, but if we don’t The Brexit party will become irrelevant anyway, The EU parliament will just ignore them "

The Brexit Party are irrelevant now as it stands anyway.

Brexit cannot happen in Brussels, it's impossible, Brexit can only happen in Westminster and until the Brexit party has 650 candidates for a general election then they will only be a very popular yet irrelevant entity.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Zero Tory MEPs, they say

It doesn’t matter what party the MEPS represent, at this stage it is irrelevant

As long as we bloody leave

That is true, but if we don’t The Brexit party will become irrelevant anyway, The EU parliament will just ignore them

The Brexit Party are irrelevant now as it stands anyway.

Brexit cannot happen in Brussels, it's impossible, Brexit can only happen in Westminster and until the Brexit party has 650 candidates for a general election then they will only be a very popular yet irrelevant entity. "

I agree, it is just a vehicle for Farage to try and stay relevant

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"that is right, you could ask any brexiter and noone will mention northern ireland, that is cos they live in this fantasy utopia of gran bretana, they wont rule the world anymore."

it is the Little Englander.

Thinks the United Kingdom is the same all over.

It certainly is not.

Full of different ethnicities and tensions completely alien to their world.

It's a union of countries and peoples.

The exact thing they say they detest.

They do not even understand their own country, so what hope do they have of understanding 27 other ones across the sea?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yet another general election? I hear people complaining about low turnouts, and another GE would be a disaster, with the wet behind the ears brigade having their first vote and most of the rest of us not bothering.

We have had way too many general elections, bi elections, EU elections, referendums. People are getting sick of telling the bastards what we want, only for them not to bother delivering."

The irony of this post when your lot are the ones constantly moaning about "democracy", yeah sure, after Brexit let's have no more General Elections either

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 26/05/19 11:17:33]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"that is right, you could ask any brexiter and noone will mention northern ireland, that is cos they live in this fantasy utopia of gran bretana, they wont rule the world anymore.

it is the Little Englander.

Thinks the United Kingdom is the same all over.

It certainly is not.

Full of different ethnicities and tensions completely alien to their world.

It's a union of countries and peoples.

The exact thing they say they detest.

They do not even understand their own country, so what hope do they have of understanding 27 other ones across the sea?

"
That is right, they wont understand them either.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


"Yet another general election? I hear people complaining about low turnouts, and another GE would be a disaster, with the wet behind the ears brigade having their first vote and most of the rest of us not bothering.

We have had way too many general elections, bi elections, EU elections, referendums. People are getting sick of telling the bastards what we want, only for them not to bother delivering.

The irony of this post when your lot are the ones constantly moaning about "democracy", yeah sure, after Brexit let's have no more General Elections either "

BREXITERS don't care about democracy. They just care about leaving the EU. If they truly cared out Democracy they would try to fulfill the mandate from the referendum, which was to Leave the EU with a deal better than the deal we have now, because we held all the cards; and, if that wasn't deliverable, go back to the people for another mandate.

If you're not delivering what you promised then you've not got a mandate to deliver it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Brexit wont happen, it is good that the parliament is blocking it as they have the best interest for norther ireland by respecting the good friday, a brexiter doesnt respect it."

Utter bollocks Shag!!

Wanting to leave the EU has nothing to do with disrespecting the Good Friday agreement.

The UK Government have made it very clear that we will not ipose a hard border in Ireland.

As have the Irish government.

In truth, this whole 'backstop' thing has been deliberately created by the EU to cause problems.

If anyone is going to impose a hard border in Ireland it will be the EU.

Any just ask anyone who served in the British armed forces in Northern Ireland during the troubles about how easy it is to control such a hard border

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

i half want a true hard brexiteer to be Prime minister, so he can bring a true hard Brexiteer in as chancellor.... so they they have to finally fess up and tell the people that all the figures the treasury and the civil service do for them, that they have been rubbishing as "project fear" for the last 3 years.... are in fact correct

none of them will ever admit they were selling people a lie and a vision that was never realistic.....

god bless unicorns eh......

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"

Utter bollocks Shag!!

Wanting to leave the EU has nothing to do with disrespecting the Good Friday agreement.

The UK Government have made it very clear that we will not ipose a hard border in Ireland.

As have the Irish government.

In truth, this whole 'backstop' thing has been deliberately created by the EU to cause problems.

If anyone is going to impose a hard border in Ireland it will be the EU.

Any just ask anyone who served in the British armed forces in Northern Ireland during the troubles about how easy it is to control such a hard border"

so much of this is laughable i wonder how you can write it all with a straight face... so let stick a few "truths" in there...

1) the EU are actually signitories to the GFA..... they also fun a lot of the Peace programmes that would stop when the UK leave the EU

2) you talk about hard borders.... so you must have missed the bit last week the hard brexiteer International Trade secretary, Liam Fox, Finally admitted that there WOULD have to be checks and all goods crossing the border (whether you want to that at "the border"....or as the ERG suggested "at a place close to the border but not at the border" border....

3) what the hard line ERG have said is whilst there is alignment of rules and tariffs there is no need for a border... but even they concede that since the goals is that they will have there own rules and regs, when they do diverge... there WILL be a need for a hard border!

4) the "backstop" wasn't put into the agreement by the EU, it was originally suggested by the UK government to get round so it complies with the GFA, also remember "backstop" only comes into place if there is no FTA agrees between the UK and the EU after a certain amount of time....

the original suggestion by the EU was to leave the NI in the customs union which the UK originally actually agreed to! but that was struck down by the DUP because it would have left the "trade border" down the irish sea.....

5) i love the "blame the EU" for everything stance...... I was always taught that for every action there is a reaction...

you voted to leave, but you don't want to own the consequences" because it makes you feel "queezy".....

own it!!!!! tell them the truth which is "you didn't think that consequence was worth thinking about because you live in essex... and well.... northern ireland is hundreds of miles away and what happens there doesn't affect me in any way shape or form".....

like i said... own your truth!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

Utter bollocks Shag!!

Wanting to leave the EU has nothing to do with disrespecting the Good Friday agreement.

The UK Government have made it very clear that we will not ipose a hard border in Ireland.

As have the Irish government.

In truth, this whole 'backstop' thing has been deliberately created by the EU to cause problems.

If anyone is going to impose a hard border in Ireland it will be the EU.

Any just ask anyone who served in the British armed forces in Northern Ireland during the troubles about how easy it is to control such a hard border

so much of this is laughable i wonder how you can write it all with a straight face... so let stick a few "truths" in there...

1) the EU are actually signitories to the GFA..... they also fun a lot of the Peace programmes that would stop when the UK leave the EU

2) you talk about hard borders.... so you must have missed the bit last week the hard brexiteer International Trade secretary, Liam Fox, Finally admitted that there WOULD have to be checks and all goods crossing the border (whether you want to that at "the border"....or as the ERG suggested "at a place close to the border but not at the border" border....

3) what the hard line ERG have said is whilst there is alignment of rules and tariffs there is no need for a border... but even they concede that since the goals is that they will have there own rules and regs, when they do diverge... there WILL be a need for a hard border!

4) the "backstop" wasn't put into the agreement by the EU, it was originally suggested by the UK government to get round so it complies with the GFA, also remember "backstop" only comes into place if there is no FTA agrees between the UK and the EU after a certain amount of time....

the original suggestion by the EU was to leave the NI in the customs union which the UK originally actually agreed to! but that was struck down by the DUP because it would have left the "trade border" down the irish sea.....

5) i love the "blame the EU" for everything stance...... I was always taught that for every action there is a reaction...

you voted to leave, but you don't want to own the consequences" because it makes you feel "queezy".....

own it!!!!! tell them the truth which is "you didn't think that consequence was worth thinking about because you live in essex... and well.... northern ireland is hundreds of miles away and what happens there doesn't affect me in any way shape or form".....

like i said... own your truth!"

Ha ha ha! Mr Grooverider, you day all this as though it is a bad thing

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"

Wanting to leave the EU has nothing to do with disrespecting the Good Friday agreement.

"

No, because most of those who voted for it had never even heard of it.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

Utter bollocks Shag!!

Wanting to leave the EU has nothing to do with disrespecting the Good Friday agreement.

The UK Government have made it very clear that we will not ipose a hard border in Ireland.

As have the Irish government.

In truth, this whole 'backstop' thing has been deliberately created by the EU to cause problems.

If anyone is going to impose a hard border in Ireland it will be the EU.

Any just ask anyone who served in the British armed forces in Northern Ireland during the troubles about how easy it is to control such a hard border

so much of this is laughable i wonder how you can write it all with a straight face... so let stick a few "truths" in there...

1) the EU are actually signitories to the GFA..... they also fun a lot of the Peace programmes that would stop when the UK leave the EU

2) you talk about hard borders.... so you must have missed the bit last week the hard brexiteer International Trade secretary, Liam Fox, Finally admitted that there WOULD have to be checks and all goods crossing the border (whether you want to that at "the border"....or as the ERG suggested "at a place close to the border but not at the border" border....

3) what the hard line ERG have said is whilst there is alignment of rules and tariffs there is no need for a border... but even they concede that since the goals is that they will have there own rules and regs, when they do diverge... there WILL be a need for a hard border!

4) the "backstop" wasn't put into the agreement by the EU, it was originally suggested by the UK government to get round so it complies with the GFA, also remember "backstop" only comes into place if there is no FTA agrees between the UK and the EU after a certain amount of time....

the original suggestion by the EU was to leave the NI in the customs union which the UK originally actually agreed to! but that was struck down by the DUP because it would have left the "trade border" down the irish sea.....

5) i love the "blame the EU" for everything stance...... I was always taught that for every action there is a reaction...

you voted to leave, but you don't want to own the consequences" because it makes you feel "queezy".....

own it!!!!! tell them the truth which is "you didn't think that consequence was worth thinking about because you live in essex... and well.... northern ireland is hundreds of miles away and what happens there doesn't affect me in any way shape or form".....

like i said... own your truth!

Ha ha ha! Mr Grooverider, you day all this as though it is a bad thing "

*say

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I hope the next prime minister has the brains and the guts to bring it back.

the next prime minister wont try and bring it back... because they would walk straight into a "no confidence" vote they would lose.... which would just bring on a general election....

what is more like to happen is the next prime minister will walk into brussels blowing "hot air".... get nothing in concessions... and then when they have to go an get another extension in october, the EU then say you can have one if you have a "potentially politically changing event" (general election or 2nd ref)

What is more likely to happen is just a little (lol) different to your version.

Of course the next leader would be taking a big risk if he (or she) tried to put no deal back on the table. The damage there has already been done I’m afraid. We will as you say get to October with no agreement, and try to get another extension. The chances are that we will be told that we had our extension and to fuck off with nothing.

So we get a no deal BREXIT, but the world will see us booted out, instead of making the decision for ourselves.

One major flaw in your 'cunning plan' is that you seem not to have yet realised or won't accept that the EU are as against the no deal option as are the vast majority of businesses, members of both houses and the public..

They'll extend again on some fudge to avoid that..

It was never my “cunning plan.” I would like a no deal, but not on their terms. I’d rather the world saw us leave with our heads held high. The rest of the world are watching, be in no doubt about that. They are much less likely to do business with us if we don’t leave under our own steam.

You could be right about the fudging though

Unfortunately we are beyond the point of leaving with our ‘heads held high’ we are a laughing stock

Yes, because the people voted leave but the govt don’t want to. However I doubt the EU are happy with the probability of 40 BREXIT Party MEP’s taking seats in their parliament.

Every class room / large office has it's own set of wankers and twats, the normal people learn to ignore them and get on with things best they can, European Parliament will be no different.

You're delusional. The European Parliament won't be able to ignore a majority block of anti EU MEP's from all over Europe as they will dominate proceedings! For the first time ever it now looks like a majority block of anti EU MEP's from all over Europe (FvD in Holland, AfD in Germany, The League and 5 Star in Italy, Front National in France, and Euroskepic MEP's from other places like Hungary, Poland, Finland and Denmark will join forces under one banner lead by Matteo Salvini in the European Parliament. EU arse licking, Brussels brown nosing fan boys like you are in for a big shock on Sunday night when the results come in from all over Europe, not just the results in the UK.

If the EU won't let us Leave, and the remainer UK Parliament won't let us leave, then the European people will make damn sure we destroy the anti democratic, overbearing, bureaucratic nightmare that the EU has become from the inside.

You do sound more like Centy every day.. "

In fairness to Centy, he did try to make something resembling a coherent argument!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Fascist state?

You just had a vote to leave it.

Hardly the hallmark of a fascist state, is it?

And given the role of the UK over the last 40 years, by your reckoning the UK must be part of that fascist conspiracy.

This place gets madder evert day.

Someone needs to take off the rose-tinted specs.

The EU don't want us to leave, and are making it difficult ("we will punish them for leaving"), as a lesson to any other country who thinks of leaving.

They bought this on themselves, by telling Cameron to fuck off, rather than listening to his concerns and dealing with them.

Sometimes, you have to accept that a relationship isn't working, and end it.

I'd rather all sides had come to a deal that was mutually beneficial, but that hasn't happened. Taking "No deal" off the table was a bad idea.

Ireland now know that "no deal" would hit them the worst, so having it back in the mix would hopefully put pressure on them to stop raising so many objections, the border issue can be sorted, if they get onboard with some positivity."

True, the EU don’t want the UK to leave as it will affect trade and incomes throughout the block!

However the EU didn’t vote to leave, the EU aren’t stopping anyone from leaving, it’s the UK parliament that hasn’t ratified the WAB,

There is no onus on the EU to protect Britain’s interests, they are there to protect the interests of the 27 who will remain!

Someone suggested earlier in this thread that no deal is a greater threat to the UK than it is to Britain!

As for the Irish backstop, that’s an international agreement with the EU as guarantor, of course they should try to protect that!!

And finally, sort the border issue out? After three years no one has come up with a workable solution to that apart from the backstop!

BoJo rants about technology, if it was there, it would be a plausible alternative, it’s not there !

Time for Brexiters to get a grasp on reality!!

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral


"How many households are living in poverty?

3,000,000?

4,000,000?

Levels of personal indebtedness are now back at levels not seen since before the financial crash.

You may be sufficiently immune from the economic fall-out to believe that leaping into the wilderness in pursuit of unicorns is the be all and end all.

I suspect millions have other priorities on their mind.

"
Not as many as they suggest,if people want to take drugs,drink etc that is self induced poverty so there own fault.Does not count in my book.It is mainly the old and young kids who should be taken off there parents that suffer so sad

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

No deal is a stupid option for anyone to want for many reasons, economically and otherwise. It's a sinister thing to want to impose needless harm on those who may be less fortunate than you are.

A transitional arrangement is also wiser for everyone too, including businesses, travellers and citizens. No deal doesn't give that.

An ill-informed, stupid, dangerous and harmful strategy. Beware of anyone who shouts for it.

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By *avidnsa69Man
over a year ago

Essex


"

Wanting to leave the EU has nothing to do with disrespecting the Good Friday agreement.

No, because most of those who voted for it had never even heard of it.

"

The pitiful excuse for a human, Dominic Raab admitted he'd never even read the damned agreement

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By *verysmileMan
over a year ago

Canterbury


"Fascist state?

You just had a vote to leave it.

Hardly the hallmark of a fascist state, is it?

And given the role of the UK over the last 40 years, by your reckoning the UK must be part of that fascist conspiracy.

This place gets madder evert day.

Someone needs to take off the rose-tinted specs.

The EU don't want us to leave, and are making it difficult ("we will punish them for leaving"), as a lesson to any other country who thinks of leaving.

They bought this on themselves, by telling Cameron to fuck off, rather than listening to his concerns and dealing with them.

Sometimes, you have to accept that a relationship isn't working, and end it.

I'd rather all sides had come to a deal that was mutually beneficial, but that hasn't happened. Taking "No deal" off the table was a bad idea.

Ireland now know that "no deal" would hit them the worst, so having it back in the mix would hopefully put pressure on them to stop raising so many objections, the border issue can be sorted, if they get onboard with some positivity.

True, the EU don’t want the UK to leave as it will affect trade and incomes throughout the block!

However the EU didn’t vote to leave, the EU aren’t stopping anyone from leaving, it’s the UK parliament that hasn’t ratified the WAB,

There is no onus on the EU to protect Britain’s interests, they are there to protect the interests of the 27 who will remain!

Someone suggested earlier in this thread that no deal is a greater threat to the UK than it is to Britain!

As for the Irish backstop, that’s an international agreement with the EU as guarantor, of course they should try to protect that!!

And finally, sort the border issue out? After three years no one has come up with a workable solution to that apart from the backstop!

BoJo rants about technology, if it was there, it would be a plausible alternative, it’s not there !

Time for Brexiters to get a grasp on reality!!"

Doesn't the Security section of the agreement...2(iv),refer in part to supporting the installation of security measures consumate with a normal society. Wouldn't that fit in with a change in the UK's EU status?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"How many households are living in poverty?

3,000,000?

4,000,000?

Levels of personal indebtedness are now back at levels not seen since before the financial crash.

You may be sufficiently immune from the economic fall-out to believe that leaping into the wilderness in pursuit of unicorns is the be all and end all.

I suspect millions have other priorities on their mind.

Not as many as they suggest,if people want to take drugs,drink etc that is self induced poverty so there own fault.Does not count in my book.It is mainly the old and young kids who should be taken off there parents that suffer so sad"

And your evidence that people living in poverty are all druggies who deserve to be scorned is . . . ?

Or is that just a blatant display of your own prejudice?

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"

Utter bollocks Shag!!

Wanting to leave the EU has nothing to do with disrespecting the Good Friday agreement.

The UK Government have made it very clear that we will not ipose a hard border in Ireland.

As have the Irish government.

In truth, this whole 'backstop' thing has been deliberately created by the EU to cause problems.

If anyone is going to impose a hard border in Ireland it will be the EU.

Any just ask anyone who served in the British armed forces in Northern Ireland during the troubles about how easy it is to control such a hard border

so much of this is laughable i wonder how you can write it all with a straight face... so let stick a few "truths" in there...

1) the EU are actually signitories to the GFA..... they also fun a lot of the Peace programmes that would stop when the UK leave the EU

2) you talk about hard borders.... so you must have missed the bit last week the hard brexiteer International Trade secretary, Liam Fox, Finally admitted that there WOULD have to be checks and all goods crossing the border (whether you want to that at "the border"....or as the ERG suggested "at a place close to the border but not at the border" border....

3) what the hard line ERG have said is whilst there is alignment of rules and tariffs there is no need for a border... but even they concede that since the goals is that they will have there own rules and regs, when they do diverge... there WILL be a need for a hard border!

4) the "backstop" wasn't put into the agreement by the EU, it was originally suggested by the UK government to get round so it complies with the GFA, also remember "backstop" only comes into place if there is no FTA agrees between the UK and the EU after a certain amount of time....

the original suggestion by the EU was to leave the NI in the customs union which the UK originally actually agreed to! but that was struck down by the DUP because it would have left the "trade border" down the irish sea.....

5) i love the "blame the EU" for everything stance...... I was always taught that for every action there is a reaction...

you voted to leave, but you don't want to own the consequences" because it makes you feel "queezy".....

own it!!!!! tell them the truth which is "you didn't think that consequence was worth thinking about because you live in essex... and well.... northern ireland is hundreds of miles away and what happens there doesn't affect me in any way shape or form".....

like i said... own your truth!

Ha ha ha! Mr Grooverider, you day all this as though it is a bad thing

*say"

so if i was to change the word in the last paragraph from "essex" to "peacehaven".... will you own your truth? just curious....

at least someone would come out and finally admit they don't give a fig about northern ireland... and scotland to that matter....

will you own it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it's quite likely that the court case going on now will establish we left the EU on the 29th of march and therefore by default we've left with no deal.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

You seriously think the legislators in Parliament forgot to dot the i's and cross the t's when they changed the exit date in law?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"You seriously think the legislators in Parliament forgot to dot the i's and cross the t's when they changed the exit date in law?

"
.

That's not what's being challenged, I believe what's being challenged is the original case of the metic martyrs 20 years ago and how the lord justice came to the ruling of the legitimacy of EU directives over UK common law and Constitutional law.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"You seriously think the legislators in Parliament forgot to dot the i's and cross the t's when they changed the exit date in law?

.

That's not what's being challenged, I believe what's being challenged is the original case of the metic martyrs 20 years ago and how the lord justice came to the ruling of the legitimacy of EU directives over UK common law and Constitutional law.

"

My limited knowledge is directives dont over rule UK law as directives are folded into eu law. Where there has been challenge is whether the directive has been folded in correctly.

Any links to quality sources gratefully received. All I have found is express and mail aryxlss on the English Democrats which seemed to be about us accidentally falling out of the eu despite the parliament wishing otherwise.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"You seriously think the legislators in Parliament forgot to dot the i's and cross the t's when they changed the exit date in law?

.

That's not what's being challenged, I believe what's being challenged is the original case of the metic martyrs 20 years ago and how the lord justice came to the ruling of the legitimacy of EU directives over UK common law and Constitutional law.

"

So someone is going to court to argue that the UK actually left the EU in 1999?

How peculiar.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"You seriously think the legislators in Parliament forgot to dot the i's and cross the t's when they changed the exit date in law?

.

That's not what's being challenged, I believe what's being challenged is the original case of the metic martyrs 20 years ago and how the lord justice came to the ruling of the legitimacy of EU directives over UK common law and Constitutional law.

My limited knowledge is directives dont over rule UK law as directives are folded into eu law. Where there has been challenge is whether the directive has been folded in correctly.

Any links to quality sources gratefully received. All I have found is express and mail aryxlss on the English Democrats which seemed to be about us accidentally falling out of the eu despite the parliament wishing otherwise. "
.

No from what I've read they lost there appeal on the grounds of free speech on English common law, there original argument was that parliament could not change that with a European directive of 1972 being legal, however the judge argued that the 1975 referendum was grounds for holding it legal as it was backed by the people.

Ie the judge confirmed that common law was changed via the referendum of 1975, there case is now it must be also the case in reverse.

I believe it's due to be heard in four weeks at the high court.

I'm no expert myself but the English democrats argument was that only parliament and not Theresa may can change the date for leaving.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It all comes from the thoburn v Sunderland city council court ruling under justice laws. He ruled on the supremacy of EU law over English law.

An interesting case that the plaintiffs lost eventually at the echr.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"You seriously think the legislators in Parliament forgot to dot the i's and cross the t's when they changed the exit date in law?

.

That's not what's being challenged, I believe what's being challenged is the original case of the metic martyrs 20 years ago and how the lord justice came to the ruling of the legitimacy of EU directives over UK common law and Constitutional law.

My limited knowledge is directives dont over rule UK law as directives are folded into eu law. Where there has been challenge is whether the directive has been folded in correctly.

Any links to quality sources gratefully received. All I have found is express and mail aryxlss on the English Democrats which seemed to be about us accidentally falling out of the eu despite the parliament wishing otherwise. .

No from what I've read they lost there appeal on the grounds of free speech on English common law, there original argument was that parliament could not change that with a European directive of 1972 being legal, however the judge argued that the 1975 referendum was grounds for holding it legal as it was backed by the people.

Ie the judge confirmed that common law was changed via the referendum of 1975, there case is now it must be also the case in reverse.

I believe it's due to be heard in four weeks at the high court.

I'm no expert myself but the English democrats argument was that only parliament and not Theresa may can change the date for leaving.

"

Interesting. However everything Brexit related has been via acts of Parliament rather than common law. Tho creating an act and a mending it is different I think. Requires different instruments.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


"You seriously think the legislators in Parliament forgot to dot the i's and cross the t's when they changed the exit date in law?

.

That's not what's being challenged, I believe what's being challenged is the original case of the metic martyrs 20 years ago and how the lord justice came to the ruling of the legitimacy of EU directives over UK common law and Constitutional law.

My limited knowledge is directives dont over rule UK law as directives are folded into eu law. Where there has been challenge is whether the directive has been folded in correctly.

Any links to quality sources gratefully received. All I have found is express and mail aryxlss on the English Democrats which seemed to be about us accidentally falling out of the eu despite the parliament wishing otherwise. .

No from what I've read they lost there appeal on the grounds of free speech on English common law, there original argument was that parliament could not change that with a European directive of 1972 being legal, however the judge argued that the 1975 referendum was grounds for holding it legal as it was backed by the people.

Ie the judge confirmed that common law was changed via the referendum of 1975, there case is now it must be also the case in reverse.

I believe it's due to be heard in four weeks at the high court.

I'm no expert myself but the English democrats argument was that only parliament and not Theresa may can change the date for leaving.

Interesting. However everything Brexit related has been via acts of Parliament rather than common law. Tho creating an act and a mending it is different I think. Requires different instruments. "

I think the best this case could achieve would be to create a legal paradox where by, under UK law we might have left but under EU and international law we wouldn't. Until we leave under EU and international law we would still be bound in international law by our commitments. It's a political legal stunt that's probably going to fail anyway.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Do you feel like we have been here before?

108 times Mrs May said the UK would leave the EU on March 29 (now substitute with October 31 and attribute to your Tory favourite)

50 times Mrs May said she would not seek an extension beyond March 29 (now substitute with October 31 and attribute to your Tory favourite)

32 times Mrs May said that No Deal is better than a bad deal (now substitute with every candidate in the Conservative Party election)

And where does all this meaningless rhetoric lead?

Back to Parliament, back to the EU and the UK remaining a member of the EU.

It ain't gonna happen.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


"Do you feel like we have been here before?

108 times Mrs May said the UK would leave the EU on March 29 (now substitute with October 31 and attribute to your Tory favourite)

50 times Mrs May said she would not seek an extension beyond March 29 (now substitute with October 31 and attribute to your Tory favourite)

32 times Mrs May said that No Deal is better than a bad deal (now substitute with every candidate in the Conservative Party election)

And where does all this meaningless rhetoric lead?

Back to Parliament, back to the EU and the UK remaining a member of the EU.

It ain't gonna happen.

"

All roads lead to Remain. There is no mandate for a 'no deal' BREXIT. The only mandate there is from both the referendum and the General Election in 2017 is to leave with a deal better than we currently have but there is no deliverable deal that meats that mandate or that doesn't involve us giving up control rather than taking back control. QED we end up back at Remain.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But but! Our nige said they would be falling over each other to get a good deal wit us

After al we hold all of the cards

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


"But but! Our nige said they would be falling over each other to get a good deal wit us

After al we hold all of the cards "

I guess Nige and BoJo could each be called 'a bit of a card'. Problem is a knave and a joker just aren't a winning hand in any game.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

You imagine the unions going in to a negotiation with management and they say, “here’s what we want for our workers, but it’s ok we won’t strike”

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West


"You imagine the unions going in to a negotiation with management and they say, “here’s what we want for our workers, but it’s ok we won’t strike”"

The thing is you are purposely (or otherwise) misconstruing the meaning of “walk away.”

Walking away actually means that if your proposed plan of action is not going to lead you where you want to go, you revert to the status quo.

The status quo in this is to remain, not shoot ourselves in both feet because our proposed action of shooting ourselves in one foot would not have had the desired outcome. The whole purpose of leaving the EU was for a better outcome, not to be in a worse position. If that proposed better outcome is truly not possible then walking away from that course of action is actually to remain.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"You imagine the unions going in to a negotiation with management and they say, “here’s what we want for our workers, but it’s ok we won’t strike”

The thing is you are purposely (or otherwise) misconstruing the meaning of “walk away.”

Walking away actually means that if your proposed plan of action is not going to lead you where you want to go, you revert to the status quo.

The status quo in this is to remain, not shoot ourselves in both feet because our proposed action of shooting ourselves in one foot would not have had the desired outcome. The whole purpose of leaving the EU was for a better outcome, not to be in a worse position. If that proposed better outcome is truly not possible then walking away from that course of action is actually to remain."

Just to really through the cat among the pigeons .... this type of prisoner/ransom action (which the unions have had no problem using over the years) seems to have worked for POTUS and the border situation with Mexico.

A negotiation with your hands tied is never going to end well for you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"You imagine the unions going in to a negotiation with management and they say, “here’s what we want for our workers, but it’s ok we won’t strike”"

Something ironic youre using the power of a union to make a pont here.

It's more like a small part of the workforce demanding they work less hours and get paid the same. And threatening to quit if they don't.

The threat only works if there are other good jobs out there. If its a crap jobs market its an empty threat and worthless.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"You imagine the unions going in to a negotiation with management and they say, “here’s what we want for our workers, but it’s ok we won’t strike”

The thing is you are purposely (or otherwise) misconstruing the meaning of “walk away.”

Walking away actually means that if your proposed plan of action is not going to lead you where you want to go, you revert to the status quo.

The status quo in this is to remain, not shoot ourselves in both feet because our proposed action of shooting ourselves in one foot would not have had the desired outcome. The whole purpose of leaving the EU was for a better outcome, not to be in a worse position. If that proposed better outcome is truly not possible then walking away from that course of action is actually to remain.

Just to really through the cat among the pigeons .... this type of prisoner/ransom action (which the unions have had no problem using over the years) seems to have worked for POTUS and the border situation with Mexico.

A negotiation with your hands tied is never going to end well for you"

But we're Mexico in this example.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"You imagine the unions going in to a negotiation with management and they say, “here’s what we want for our workers, but it’s ok we won’t strike”"

We've already shot ourselves in one foot. Now you want us to point the gun at the other foot and tell the EU we'll fire if they don't give us what they want. Lololol

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"You imagine the unions going in to a negotiation with management and they say, “here’s what we want for our workers, but it’s ok we won’t strike”

The thing is you are purposely (or otherwise) misconstruing the meaning of “walk away.”

Walking away actually means that if your proposed plan of action is not going to lead you where you want to go, you revert to the status quo.

The status quo in this is to remain, not shoot ourselves in both feet because our proposed action of shooting ourselves in one foot would not have had the desired outcome. The whole purpose of leaving the EU was for a better outcome, not to be in a worse position. If that proposed better outcome is truly not possible then walking away from that course of action is actually to remain.

Just to really through the cat among the pigeons .... this type of prisoner/ransom action (which the unions have had no problem using over the years) seems to have worked for POTUS and the border situation with Mexico.

A negotiation with your hands tied is never going to end well for you

But we're Mexico in this example. "

Yes, if you apply the example to our situation.

However turn it around and make us POTUS and then the EU are the Mexicans

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"You imagine the unions going in to a negotiation with management and they say, “here’s what we want for our workers, but it’s ok we won’t strike”

Something ironic youre using the power of a union to make a pont here. "

Ironic yes , and surely all the more thought provoking in the point it makes.

Btw - it’s not my original thought/idea - just something I read and made me think.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For analogies to work, there has to be link between the analogy and real life. We're the small player here. So I can't see how we can claim to be America (the larger economy) or a union (which makes the sum greater than the parts) that has power they striking.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"For analogies to work, there has to be link between the analogy and real life. We're the small player here. So I can't see how we can claim to be America (the larger economy) or a union (which makes the sum greater than the parts) that has power they striking. "

The risk of a no deal brexit is damaging to the EU . fact.

If we go in to a negotiation without that risk/threat on the table, the EU will feel less inclined to give more of what we are asking .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"For analogies to work, there has to be link between the analogy and real life. We're the small player here. So I can't see how we can claim to be America (the larger economy) or a union (which makes the sum greater than the parts) that has power they striking.

The risk of a no deal brexit is damaging to the EU . fact.

If we go in to a negotiation without that risk/threat on the table, the EU will feel less inclined to give more of what we are asking .

"

It's damaging. But a lot less damaging. The same way as losing some workers is a cost to a business. But less damaging to them tha. The workers who no longer have income. The same way as tarrifs will have a small damage on the US (increased prices) but less damaging than to Mexico.

Tbh I agree that if we were doing Brexit sensibly wouldnt need to be taken off the table and theres no benefit in the negotiation of taking it off the table. However rather than let the EU call our bluff they have watched the ERG call our bluff on their behalf.

Its like a union saying that there would be mass resignations if the company don't cede... Which may or may not be true... And then the shop floor force a vote of its members... Which shows theres not as much support as the claim makes (and based on two pills brought to my attention by leavers here, the current will of the peiple is to remain rather than no deal leave)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"For analogies to work, there has to be link between the analogy and real life. We're the small player here. So I can't see how we can claim to be America (the larger economy) or a union (which makes the sum greater than the parts) that has power they striking.

The risk of a no deal brexit is damaging to the EU . fact.

If we go in to a negotiation without that risk/threat on the table, the EU will feel less inclined to give more of what we are asking .

The risk of a no deal is more damaging to the UK than to the EU, fact

"

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"

The risk of a no deal brexit is damaging to the EU . fact.

If we go in to a negotiation without that risk/threat on the table, the EU will feel less inclined to give more of what we are asking .

"

You'll also know then that the UK will take the greatest hit of any country.

The EU knows that, too.

Their calculation is that no PM would be so stupid to do that.

If a new PM starts shouting about No Deal, he or she needs to be prepared to go through with it.

It's the first time in my lifetime that any government has ever pursued a policy that it KNOWS will make their citizens worse off.

When prices go up, when supplies run low, when ports begin to seize up, when jobs are lost, do you think the average citizen will go:

a) Oh well, that's democracy

b) What are these fucking idiots doing to me?

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"When prices go up, when supplies run low, when ports begin to seize up, when jobs are lost, do you think the average citizen will go:

a) Oh well, that's democracy

b) What are these fucking idiots doing to me?

"

It’s that kind of scaremongering that is clouding this whole situation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"When prices go up, when supplies run low, when ports begin to seize up, when jobs are lost, do you think the average citizen will go:

a) Oh well, that's democracy

b) What are these fucking idiots doing to me?

It’s that kind of scaremongering that is clouding this whole situation.

"

Scaremongering? Can you point me towards one expert, foreign business CEO or economist who thinks the UK will be better off leaving the EU with a no deal compared to staying ?

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"When prices go up, when supplies run low, when ports begin to seize up, when jobs are lost, do you think the average citizen will go:

a) Oh well, that's democracy

b) What are these fucking idiots doing to me?

It’s that kind of scaremongering that is clouding this whole situation.

Scaremongering? Can you point me towards one expert, foreign business CEO or economist who thinks the UK will be better off leaving the EU with a no deal compared to staying ? "

Professor Patrick Minford

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"When prices go up, when supplies run low, when ports begin to seize up, when jobs are lost, do you think the average citizen will go:

a) Oh well, that's democracy

b) What are these fucking idiots doing to me?

It’s that kind of scaremongering that is clouding this whole situation.

Scaremongering? Can you point me towards one expert, foreign business CEO or economist who thinks the UK will be better off leaving the EU with a no deal compared to staying ?

Professor Patrick Minford"

Just the one? Can you enlighten me on what he has stated in his study?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"When prices go up, when supplies run low, when ports begin to seize up, when jobs are lost, do you think the average citizen will go:

a) Oh well, that's democracy

b) What are these fucking idiots doing to me?

It’s that kind of scaremongering that is clouding this whole situation.

Scaremongering? Can you point me towards one expert, foreign business CEO or economist who thinks the UK will be better off leaving the EU with a no deal compared to staying ?

Professor Patrick Minford"

Can I suggest you read Britain More Prosperous ‘In’ which was signed by 12 Nobel Laureates and over 175 uk based economists

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"When prices go up, when supplies run low, when ports begin to seize up, when jobs are lost, do you think the average citizen will go:

a) Oh well, that's democracy

b) What are these fucking idiots doing to me?

It’s that kind of scaremongering that is clouding this whole situation.

Scaremongering? Can you point me towards one expert, foreign business CEO or economist who thinks the UK will be better off leaving the EU with a no deal compared to staying ?

Professor Patrick Minford"

So is predicting the decimation of farming and manufacturing scaremongering? Or is that okay?

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By *ky19Man
over a year ago

Plymouth

It's not possible for a country to survive, let alone thrive without being in the EU.

This is more important than democracy, on this occasion. If we had voted remain, that would have been it. Forever. Locked in for ever. A one time vote to settle it, as we were told.

If we had voted remain, our economy would be much better. Look at the mess southern Europe countries like Greece are in since they left the EU. 50% youth unemployment, corporations asset stripping the country. Multiple Democratic votes to sort this ignored and overturned, revealing the EU is already really a soft dictatorship by any other name.

Lets have a look at how well Britain is doing economically while in the EU. Basically operating much like a 3rd world country lets be honest. Elderly and vulnerable people being killed off. Many struggling to live. People often can't leave parents home even in their 30s.

Cuts cuts cuts to police. Have you been stabbed? I'm sorry resources are too low. We have to prioritise serious crimes like some dickhead being offended because you disagreed with them online.

Firefighters struggling too, then having people pontificating about what they should have done at Grenfell, in hindsight.

Maybe being under the EU, with unelected leaders that you can never vote out (please think about that) isn't all that after all.

I think people are just following whatever the popular media say. They can play us like fiddles and we sing along. Look at them trying to make it all about trade, the be all and end all of everything, when that's just one component that I thought would be sorted after we've left.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"When prices go up, when supplies run low, when ports begin to seize up, when jobs are lost, do you think the average citizen will go:

a) Oh well, that's democracy

b) What are these fucking idiots doing to me?

It’s that kind of scaremongering that is clouding this whole situation.

Scaremongering? Can you point me towards one expert, foreign business CEO or economist who thinks the UK will be better off leaving the EU with a no deal compared to staying ?

Professor Patrick Minford"

I had a quick look at what he has stated and tbh he is far more qualified and knowledgeable that I ever will be, however there are 100s of economists and experts who are equally and in some cases more qualified than Patrick who completely disagree with him

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What has the eu got to do with firefighters and the police? Or with safety standards of flats?

And its not about the economy?

What pays for firefighters and police? If(and that's an if) our trade gets a hit, that flows through to taxes. And my guess is it doesn't take much to reduce our tax bills by a few percent.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's not possible for a country to survive, let alone thrive without being in the EU.

This is more important than democracy, on this occasion. If we had voted remain, that would have been it. Forever. Locked in for ever. A one time vote to settle it, as we were told.

If we had voted remain, our economy would be much better. Look at the mess southern Europe countries like Greece are in since they left the EU. 50% youth unemployment, corporations asset stripping the country. Multiple Democratic votes to sort this ignored and overturned, revealing the EU is already really a soft dictatorship by any other name.

Lets have a look at how well Britain is doing economically while in the EU. Basically operating much like a 3rd world country lets be honest. Elderly and vulnerable people being killed off. Many struggling to live. People often can't leave parents home even in their 30s.

Cuts cuts cuts to police. Have you been stabbed? I'm sorry resources are too low. We have to prioritise serious crimes like some dickhead being offended because you disagreed with them online.

Firefighters struggling too, then having people pontificating about what they should have done at Grenfell, in hindsight.

Maybe being under the EU, with unelected leaders that you can never vote out (please think about that) isn't all that after all.

I think people are just following whatever the popular media say. They can play us like fiddles and we sing along. Look at them trying to make it all about trade, the be all and end all of everything, when that's just one component that I thought would be sorted after we've left."

Are you blaming the EU For what happened at Grenfall? Are you blaming the EU for police cuts and the increase in knife crime? Are you suggesting that the UK has a 3rd would economy and that is the EUs fault?

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By *ky19Man
over a year ago

Plymouth

Don't worry I am not. We had austerity measures anyway (a total con but pretty convincing really).

The point was though there are perks to being in the EU I don't think we've done as well out of it as we get told. And yeah I was talking to a homeless guy the other day. He used to be in the military, but lost his benefits after missing 2 meetings which he couldn't avoid doing, so that's his life now. I know there are many like this or who aren't far from this. Though many of us are doing well enough many are not. For those who are not I maintain that in practice it's really not 1st world stuff.

If European countries really are getting the better end of the deal I think the EU wouldn't mind letting them leave.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Don't worry I am not. We had austerity measures anyway (a total con but pretty convincing really).

The point was though there are perks to being in the EU I don't think we've done as well out of it as we get told. And yeah I was talking to a homeless guy the other day. He used to be in the military, but lost his benefits after missing 2 meetings which he couldn't avoid doing, so that's his life now. I know there are many like this or who aren't far from this. Though many of us are doing well enough many are not. For those who are not I maintain that in practice it's really not 1st world stuff.

If European countries really are getting the better end of the deal I think the EU wouldn't mind letting them leave."

Pardon, your not making any sense? Are you saying it is a good or a bad being in the EU??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't think maby people who voted remain as seeing the world as being perfect. Indeed many here are also strongly campaigning about the injustices. Witbout putting words in their mouths I suspevt they don't see that being out the eu help at all, indeed it will probably hinder and play up the injustices.

And I suspect many alos see the world as not being zero sum. Because we gain doesn't mean others lose..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"For analogies to work, there has to be link between the analogy and real life. We're the small player here. So I can't see how we can claim to be America (the larger economy) or a union (which makes the sum greater than the parts) that has power they striking.

The risk of a no deal brexit is damaging to the EU . fact.

If we go in to a negotiation without that risk/threat on the table, the EU will feel less inclined to give more of what we are asking .

"

Indeed a no deal will be damaging to the EU but remember, that damage will be shared between 27 different countries so each countries exposure will being different will only be small where as we the UK shoulder the entire burden of damage on our side in it's entirety on a no deal situation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not 27 we only deal with about 5 so let's get it right the other 22 only export people

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Not 27 we only deal with about 5 so let's get it right the other 22 only export people "

Either which way c 40% of our import and export is with the EU.

The bigger eu countries (I'm guessing that's your five) only see 7ish % if their import and export being with us.

So the relative difference is still big.

And that's ignoeing the fact that another 10 to 20% of trade is done thru deals we have by being in the eu. So over half our trade will now be on a tariff basis. Just over 5% of a given eus country will be.

They need us eh?

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"Not 27 we only deal with about 5 so let's get it right the other 22 only export people "

I,ve met a few. Fantastic in bed. Keep 'em coming, I say

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My god they have you hook line and sinker we are the 5th largest in the world and inport 180 billion from the EU and export 60 billion to them wake up for God sake

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

UK exports £634 billion and imports £665 billion.

The EU accounted for 46% of UK exports and 53% of imports.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West


"My god they have you hook line and sinker we are the 5th largest in the world and inport 180 billion from the EU and export 60 billion to them wake up for God sake "

What would harm you most

Losing 10% of your blood or losing 50% of it? That is the analogy if everything stopped dead trade wise - of course that won't happen. We will still import French and Italian foods and beverages, we will still "import" (for a while) component parts for aircraft and cars.

But remember, the EU actively promote internal trade (it is called the Single market and it benefits those who are in it). Much of what we export to the EU can be made within the EU and probably will be in the months and years after our departure (automobiles, aircraft, engineered components etc)

Blind ideology does not stand up to real-world facts of life.

That said, I am sure the UK will survive. We have survived countless wars and economic downturns in the past and so will likely survive this even if the £GBP crashes to parity (or less) with $USD.

This issue is however is that this is not what Brexit was supposed to be about - we were anticipating a deal as good as, if not better than the one we have already. Leaving was supposed be about things being better - not fucking surviving.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

USA exports over 100 billion to the EU Japan just done a deal 90 billion to the EU what are they paying. ...nothing but we have to pay 15 billion to inport from them

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"USA exports over 100 billion to the EU Japan just done a deal 90 billion to the EU what are they paying. ...nothing but we have to pay 15 billion to inport from them "

How does that work?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ok it's been fun I know we will never leave the EU because the rich and powerful will never let it happen. They are making to much money out of it. Still it was fun watching them sweat lol. We are all fucked and we know it you can't beat the system.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West


"Ok it's been fun I know we will never leave the EU because the rich and powerful will never let it happen. They are making to much money out of it. Still it was fun watching them sweat lol. We are all fucked and we know it you can't beat the system. "

You know that it is the rich and powerful IN THIS COUNTRY who want us out of the EU.

Multi-millionnaire, non-doms and tax avoiding carpet baggers are controlling the narrative that you are swallowing.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"Leaving was supposed be about things being better - not fucking surviving."

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford


"Ok it's been fun I know we will never leave the EU because the rich and powerful will never let it happen. They are making to much money out of it. Still it was fun watching them sweat lol. We are all fucked and we know it you can't beat the system.

You know that it is the rich and powerful IN THIS COUNTRY who want us out of the EU.

Multi-millionnaire, non-doms and tax avoiding carpet baggers are controlling the narrative that you are swallowing."

Try to deny that it's also the rich and powerful multinationals and their representatives who also want us in the EU.

BREXIT is a nationalist Vs globalist right wing struggle.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"When prices go up, when supplies run low, when ports begin to seize up, when jobs are lost, do you think the average citizen will go:

a) Oh well, that's democracy

b) What are these fucking idiots doing to me?

It’s that kind of scaremongering that is clouding this whole situation.

"

Why do you think we did not leave the EU on March 29?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Not 27 we only deal with about 5 so let's get it right the other 22 only export people "

So we only trade with 5 countries within a bloc of 27,very interesting but totally unbelievable

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"When prices go up, when supplies run low, when ports begin to seize up, when jobs are lost, do you think the average citizen will go:

a) Oh well, that's democracy

b) What are these fucking idiots doing to me?

It’s that kind of scaremongering that is clouding this whole situation.

Scaremongering? Can you point me towards one expert, foreign business CEO or economist who thinks the UK will be better off leaving the EU with a no deal compared to staying ?

Professor Patrick Minford"

brexiteers love to quote patrick minford.... so lets REALLY quote patrick minford...

Patrick minford concede that a no deal brexit means that would be a high likelyhood that the UK manufactoring and agrifood sectors "would like go the same way as the UK coal industry"..... he said that to the commons select committee and in arious interviews...

so lets see if we can finally get a brexiteer to answer the question they never ever answer....

would the decimation of uk manufacturing and agriculture... and all the jobs that would be lost.... be a price worth paying for your no deal brexit?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"My god they have you hook line and sinker we are the 5th largest in the world and inport 180 billion from the EU and export 60 billion to them wake up for God sake "

Yes 5th largest in the world so to put it into a understandable context of the fizzy drink industry of "COLA / COKE" if we were the 5th largest brand of cola we'd be a supermarket rola cola brand once we left Pepsi we'd become Rola Cola

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Four countries in the EU - Denmark, Luxembourg, Sweden and Ireland - buy more from us than they sell to us.

All the other countries sell more to us. All of them. Germany, followed by Spain, followed by Belgium, followed by the Netherlands and so on.

The UK trades with all 27 + 4.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West


"Ok it's been fun I know we will never leave the EU because the rich and powerful will never let it happen. They are making to much money out of it. Still it was fun watching them sweat lol. We are all fucked and we know it you can't beat the system.

You know that it is the rich and powerful IN THIS COUNTRY who want us out of the EU.

Multi-millionnaire, non-doms and tax avoiding carpet baggers are controlling the narrative that you are swallowing.

Try to deny that it's also the rich and powerful multinationals and their representatives who also want us in the EU.

BREXIT is a nationalist Vs globalist right wing struggle."

I don't think that the rich and the powerful in this country have a vested interest in us staying in the EU and I am not really sure that internet based conspiracy theories have much credibility.

In my opinion, the Brexit half of the UK is going through a national identity and confidence crisis and the loss of confidence is manifesting in us withdrawing out of the EU and aggressively pushing back against Scottish Nationalists and anyone else who damages their fragile state of mind.

Psychologically the Brexiters have lost faith and confidence to stride forwards and control the EU narrative as a full and influential partner. Instead, they want to withdraw and create imaginary, new opportunities that are untested, unproven and defy all common logic.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Not 27 we only deal with about 5 so let's get it right the other 22 only export people

So we only trade with 5 countries within a bloc of 27,very interesting but totally unbelievable "
check it out what do we export to the old eastern block countries?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Four countries in the EU - Denmark, Luxembourg, Sweden and Ireland - buy more from us than they sell to us.

All the other countries sell more to us. All of them. Germany, followed by Spain, followed by Belgium, followed by the Netherlands and so on.

The UK trades with all 27 + 4.

"

Indeed

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Romania, for example, imported $1.7bn in 2018 from the UK, Greece $1.6bn, Malta $861 million, Latvia $519m and so on.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"When prices go up, when supplies run low, when ports begin to seize up, when jobs are lost, do you think the average citizen will go:

a) Oh well, that's democracy

b) What are these fucking idiots doing to me?

It’s that kind of scaremongering that is clouding this whole situation.

Scaremongering? Can you point me towards one expert, foreign business CEO or economist who thinks the UK will be better off leaving the EU with a no deal compared to staying ?

Professor Patrick Minford

brexiteers love to quote patrick minford.... so lets REALLY quote patrick minford...

Patrick minford concede that a no deal brexit means that would be a high likelyhood that the UK manufactoring and agrifood sectors "would like go the same way as the UK coal industry"..... he said that to the commons select committee and in arious interviews...

so lets see if we can finally get a brexiteer to answer the question they never ever answer....

would the decimation of uk manufacturing and agriculture... and all the jobs that would be lost.... be a price worth paying for your no deal brexit?"

His original comments in 2012 and expanded again in the run up to the referendum in 2016 he also made a statement putting his comments in context: he “meant that unskilled intensive manufacturing, you know, metal-bashing, would be eliminated” but that “the bits of manufacturing that were skill intensive would probably expand”.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"Four countries in the EU - Denmark, Luxembourg, Sweden and Ireland - buy more from us than they sell to us.

All the other countries sell more to us. All of them. Germany, followed by Spain, followed by Belgium, followed by the Netherlands and so on.

The UK trades with all 27 + 4.

"

Once more with feeling ......

“UK exports £634 billion and imports £665 billion.

The EU accounted for 46% of UK exports and 53% of imports.”

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Four countries in the EU - Denmark, Luxembourg, Sweden and Ireland - buy more from us than they sell to us.

All the other countries sell more to us. All of them. Germany, followed by Spain, followed by Belgium, followed by the Netherlands and so on.

The UK trades with all 27 + 4.

Once more with feeling ......

“UK exports £634 billion and imports £665 billion.

The EU accounted for 46% of UK exports and 53% of imports.”"
please send a link to back this up because we was told by the government and banks that we import almost twice as much as we export to the EU. Or was the remain side bull shiting us?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Not 27 we only deal with about 5 so let's get it right the other 22 only export people

So we only trade with 5 countries within a bloc of 27,very interesting but totally unbelievable

check it out what do we export to the old eastern block countries? "

I don't know why I bothered to look it up when I knew we do export to every single nation state of the European Union but I did and funnily enough every single member state of the European 27 is in the UK's export list and values of the trade with each nation.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Of the total exports of the EU27, about 8 per cent go to the UK.

Of the total exports of the UK, about 44 per cent go to the EU 27.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"Four countries in the EU - Denmark, Luxembourg, Sweden and Ireland - buy more from us than they sell to us.

All the other countries sell more to us. All of them. Germany, followed by Spain, followed by Belgium, followed by the Netherlands and so on.

The UK trades with all 27 + 4.

Once more with feeling ......

“UK exports £634 billion and imports £665 billion.

The EU accounted for 46% of UK exports and 53% of imports.”please send a link to back this up because we was told by the government and banks that we import almost twice as much as we export to the EU. Or was the remain side bull shiting us? "

Trade: Key Economic Indicators

Published Friday, May 10, 2019

Latest statistics on UK's trade performance and balance of payments

Parliament.uk

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


"Not 27 we only deal with about 5 so let's get it right the other 22 only export people

So we only trade with 5 countries within a bloc of 27,very interesting but totally unbelievable

check it out what do we export to the old eastern block countries?

I don't know why I bothered to look it up when I knew we do export to every single nation state of the European Union but I did and funnily enough every single member state of the European 27 is in the UK's export list and values of the trade with each nation. "

Doesn't matter what the figures and facts say mate; we only trade with 4 EU countries FACT!! Get over it.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

Statistics on UK-EU trade

Published Friday 30 November 2018

Appendix 5: trade with individual EU countries

Parliament.uk

Does show trading with each of the 27 eu countries.

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