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Will brexit brake up the union?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I reckon it will with northern ireland first then scotland, ireland and wales, as brexit have caused a too big devide, can it big fixed?

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

I think you may be right but have the order wrong. I expect (if there is no change in government) Scotland will be the first to leave the Union. Because of the way power sharing works (or doesn't) I can see the DUP blocking attempts to hold a reunification referendum in NI resulting in civil unrest and allowing a Tory British Government to rescind the Good Friday Agreement, reimpose direct rule and rekindle the 'troubles' in order to divert attention away from the fact that a proclaimed unionist party has so divided the nation that it has fractured the Union beyond repair.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Every empire disintegrates into pieces and new formations. This one ain't finished yet - still lots fault lines to go until natural order is restored

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff


"Every empire disintegrates into pieces and new formations. This one ain't finished yet - still lots fault lines to go until natural order is restored "

& who says England won’t break up as well!? We’re all for the Union, as well as the EU

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

London left the UK a long time ago.

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff


"London left the UK a long time ago."

Lol, or is is the other way round?

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By *laytimenowMan
over a year ago

Essex


"I reckon it will with northern ireland first then scotland, ireland and wales, as brexit have caused a too big devide, can it big fixed?"

NI then Scotland , Ireland & Wales

When the F*ck wad Ireland last in the Union ?

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

yes it will.... wrong order...

Scotland first.... then NI.... Wales may stick around the longest.....

but i am sure that actually what a lot of little england brexiteers want, because it would almost ensure a right wing english parliament....

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"yes it will.... wrong order...

Scotland first.... then NI.... Wales may stick around the longest.....

but i am sure that actually what a lot of little england brexiteers want, because it would almost ensure a right wing english parliament...."

And then the rise and fall of the English, and their re-invention as the British, will be complete.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I reckon it will with northern ireland first then scotland, ireland and wales, as brexit have caused a too big devide, can it big fixed?"

It won’t happen.

But in a fairytale land where it happens, remoaners are to blame. They can not accept the fact they lost in a democratic vote, years after it happened. Get over it. It was a in or out vote, as whole union. All mps that voted against the will of their constituents should be sacked and unable to run for office again.

Simple answer uphold and respect the democratic vote, leave without a deal then try to work out deal with a so far uncooperative Eu

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

How do you define a union that is co-operative and a union that is un-cooperative?

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


"I reckon it will with northern ireland first then scotland, ireland and wales, as brexit have caused a too big devide, can it big fixed?

NI then Scotland , Ireland & Wales

When the F*ck wad Ireland last in the Union ?

"

January 14th 1922 was the last full day all of the island of Ireland was in The United Kingdom.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


"I reckon it will with northern ireland first then scotland, ireland and wales, as brexit have caused a too big devide, can it big fixed?

It won’t happen.

But in a fairytale land where it happens, remoaners are to blame. They can not accept the fact they lost in a democratic vote, years after it happened. Get over it. It was a in or out vote, as whole union. All mps that voted against the will of their constituents should be sacked and unable to run for office again.

Simple answer uphold and respect the democratic vote, leave without a deal then try to work out deal with a so far uncooperative Eu "

Would that include Mogg also because his constituency voted strongly Remain?

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

Your all so dramatic,nobody knows what will happen,but it will all be a slow process.

I said a long time ago it will take 5-7 years to leave the EU and we can only fully leave when the EU falls apart.

Scotland may go but nobody else.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

But in a fairytale land where it happens, remoaners are to blame. They can not accept the fact they lost in a democratic vote, years after it happened. Get over it. It was a in or out vote, as whole union."

England in 2014: No Scotland, please don't leave, going alone is a terrible idea, we're all better together, better in a union, you'll lose your EU Member status too, that is VERY important, being in the EU is important.

England in 2016: Fuck unions and fuck the EU! Farage will save us! Screw the other countries in the Union too, you betrayed the Great England!

England in 2019: Why can't we get what we lied about? Shut the fuck up Scotland we don't want to hear your opinion!

And you're trying to blame "remoaners"? What damn kool aid have you been drinking? Scotland voted to remain in the UK because of the EU status, England then took that away from them and failed the pledge they made with Scotland in 2014, all whilst continuing to treat all Scottish MPs like dog shit. When Scotland leaves it won't be the fault of the "remoaners" but the fault of England itself being a hypocrit and failing to stick to a pledge they promised just barely two years earlier.

Seriously the warped view of leavers sometimes, somehow everything is "remoaners" fault, first it's project fear, and now that stuff is happening its still "remoaners" fault for not using magic fairy dust to make things better for the fragile leavers.

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff


"yes it will.... wrong order...

Scotland first.... then NI.... Wales may stick around the longest.....

but i am sure that actually what a lot of little england brexiteers want, because it would almost ensure a right wing english parliament...."

Its likely to lead to the break up of England as well, not every region sees things the same way - this would be just as sad

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Your the warped one,never read such twisted crap"

Brilliant comeback, usual Leaver response, just call it fake news and pretend the only way is Brexit! What's your view on Scotland then? Care to go over the events of 2014 from a leaver view point, we'd love to have a read of that.

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby


"I reckon it will with northern ireland first then scotland, ireland and wales, as brexit have caused a too big devide, can it big fixed?"

Ireland is not part of the UK.

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By *bandjam91Couple
over a year ago

London


"I reckon it will with northern ireland first then scotland, ireland and wales, as brexit have caused a too big devide, can it big fixed?

It won’t happen.

But in a fairytale land where it happens, remoaners are to blame. They can not accept the fact they lost in a democratic vote, years after it happened. Get over it. It was a in or out vote, as whole union. All mps that voted against the will of their constituents should be sacked and unable to run for office again.

Simple answer uphold and respect the democratic vote, leave without a deal then try to work out deal with a so far uncooperative Eu "

Bollox, you were told this would happen and you said it was Project Fear.

And you've clearly got f*ck all idea what democracy really means.

Put down the Daily Fail, read a book or two and own the f*cking shitstorm Your ignorance has caused.

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By *V-AliceTV/TS
over a year ago

Ayr

Well, the countries aside, the UK is no longer united - that's obvious. If, due to deeply held differences, England eventually winds up on its own, it'll be fine - and so will Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff


"Well, the countries aside, the UK is no longer united - that's obvious. If, due to deeply held differences, England eventually winds up on its own, it'll be fine - and so will Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland."

But England will not remain united without the Union. The regions vary too much...

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

The Brexit issue is destroying our nation.

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff


"The Brexit issue is destroying our nation."

I blame Farage, BJ, Gove and JR-M!

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By *V-AliceTV/TS
over a year ago

Ayr


"Well, the countries aside, the UK is no longer united - that's obvious. If, due to deeply held differences, England eventually winds up on its own, it'll be fine - and so will Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

But England will not remain united without the Union. The regions vary too much..."

Fair point. A lot of Northeners wanted to come with Scotland if we'd left in 2014. It didn't work out. We remain shackled to the rotting corpse that is Westminster.

Still, 'Better Together', eh? ??

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby


"Well, the countries aside, the UK is no longer united - that's obvious. If, due to deeply held differences, England eventually winds up on its own, it'll be fine - and so will Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

But England will not remain united without the Union. The regions vary too much..."

Similar to Wales then...the Welsh from the North can't stand the Welsh in the south.

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By *oss and SuzieCouple
over a year ago

Porthmadog

Our view us that Scotland will get independence, leave and join the EU on a 5 year timescale if Brexit goes through. And best of luck to them. We will he queueing up for Scottish nationality and a passport, only worry is whether Scottish passports will be available to all current members of the union. It will be an interesting discussion Scotland asking Westminster to hand over the pension pots of former UK citizens.

The big dream is a 'league of Celtic Nations' comprising Scotland, NI and North Wales.

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

It would take a lot longer than five years for an independent Scotland to gain EU membership.

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By *oss and SuzieCouple
over a year ago

Porthmadog

We meant 5 years to achieve full independence. Having said that, the EU have already made it clear they would welcome in an independent Scotland, so maybe negotiations would be going on in parallel

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham


"We meant 5 years to achieve full independence. Having said that, the EU have already made it clear they would welcome in an independent Scotland, so maybe negotiations would be going on in parallel"

Some countries have waited decades to join the EU but I would imagine that once Scotland meets all the criteria, it would be politically fast-tracked in.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"

The big dream is a 'league of Celtic Nations' comprising Scotland, NI and North Wales. "

All it needs is for England to leave the United Kingdom and rUK is renamed the Celtic Union.

Colloquially known as C U Chimmy!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Aye! Do a bit of re-pointing the stonework, bit of plaster and paint to revamp Hadrian's wall and hey presto! A ready made hard border between englandshire and scotsville!

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Someone accused the EU of being un-cooperative.

I wondered how co-operative England would be in the event of Scotland voting to leave the UK.

Would Westminster bend over backwards to offer a fair and just divorce settlement?

I suspect not.

I recall Theresa May in 2014 saying it would be necessary to have customs and immigration posts on the border between Scotland and England.

Ed Milliband went even further, saying if he was PM he would post troops on the border.

Plonkers, both.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

The big dream is a 'league of Celtic Nations' comprising Scotland, NI and North Wales.

All it needs is for England to leave the United Kingdom and rUK is renamed the Celtic Union.

Colloquially known as C U Chimmy!

"

The English could also lose Cornwall?ti the Celtic union .Then England would finally be little England and millions would rejoice.Of course London would have to go and become a city state to complete the squeeze on England.

It's all within the realms of possible outcomes this century.

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By *antra MassageMan
over a year ago

city


"I reckon it will with northern ireland first then scotland, ireland and wales, as brexit have caused a too big devide, can it big fixed?

NI then Scotland , Ireland & Wales

When the F*ck wad Ireland last in the Union ?

1922 actually.

"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I reckon it will with northern ireland first then scotland, ireland and wales, as brexit have caused a too big devide, can it big fixed?

It won’t happen.

But in a fairytale land where it happens, remoaners are to blame. They can not accept the fact they lost in a democratic vote, years after it happened. Get over it. It was a in or out vote, as whole union. All mps that voted against the will of their constituents should be sacked and unable to run for office again.

Simple answer uphold and respect the democratic vote, leave without a deal then try to work out deal with a so far uncooperative Eu "

Yes but you’re from Kent so you’re tainted by London’s miasma

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's going to bring a war in Ireland. Proper serious war.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Unlike Ireland, however, Scotland would not have the leverage of the EU in its negotiations with rUK.

That means the "bully" would be rUK.

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff


"It's going to bring a war in Ireland. Proper serious war. "

No it won’t, what a ridiculous comment.

We need to respect the GFA and the Union

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"It's going to bring a war in Ireland. Proper serious war. "

One concern I have - in a Scottish context - is the links between the staunch unionists and paramilitaries in Northern Ireland and the west of Scotland.

There is a hardcore unionist element in Scotland who will not accept separation from the UK and whom, I fear, would react violently.

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

Just wait until the Hampshire seperatists get started!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I used to consider myself a unionist, but the political demographics I have noticed, has made me reconsider that, seriously. It doesn’t matter whether it be the SNP or Labour they elect, Scotland is red. As a previous poster on this thread has already stated, an England outside of this union will be consistently right wing, and I prefer that to being dragged into the direction of people like Corbyn and his ilk.

I have also been against this warped version of “devolution,” where Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland can all have their own Parliament, but England can’t. That means that they can interfere in matters that only affect England, but get to keep matters that affect only themselves to there own Parliaments.

I hope Scotland leave the UK, rejoin the EU, and invite all English remoaners to go and bloody live there. Good riddance...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just wait until the Hampshire seperatists get started! "

Freedom for Cornwall then Dorset and then Hampshire...

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff


"Just wait until the Hampshire seperatists get started!

Freedom for Cornwall then Dorset and then Hampshire... "

How did we get demoted to 3rd!?

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"The Brexit issue is destroying our nation.

I blame Farage, BJ, Gove and JR-M! "

Why do you blame Farage, Gove and JRM?

They are not the architects of brexit, they are just the self serving ultra right wing fucks who have exploited the opportunity as presented by 'CallMe(IFuckPigs)Dave, his sidekick Gideon and the Conservative and Unionist Party who have not for the first time used causing nation destroying rifts to keep their own party united when the results of their policies start to catch them up.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just wait until the Hampshire seperatists get started!

Freedom for Cornwall then Dorset and then Hampshire...

How did we get demoted to 3rd!? "

Because I live in Dorset and I have Cornish family.Plus Hampshire is close to London .The revolution will start in the west and spread east to the Home Counties.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"No it won’t, what a ridiculous comment.

We need to respect the GFA and the Union "

Are you for real? Have you missed what has happened over the last 3 years? Do you understand that by entering into a power sharing agreement with the DUP May and the Tories drove a double decker bus through the GFA, and since then they have been doubling down on their intent to ignore any part of the agreement that is in conflict with their aims or interests?

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

[Removed by poster at 10/05/19 15:24:59]

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"It's going to bring a war in Ireland. Proper serious war.

One concern I have - in a Scottish context - is the links between the staunch unionists and paramilitaries in Northern Ireland and the west of Scotland.

There is a hardcore unionist element in Scotland who will not accept separation from the UK and whom, I fear, would react violently.

"

On your first point I tend to agree that brexit is likely to bring a return of the troubles, after that I think you are for the most part wrong. I think you will find that outside Glasgow and maybe even in Glasgow it is not a Unionist V Republican divide as it is in NI, but it is a Presbyterian V Catholic divide and that both sides equally hate the s

Sassenachs with equal vigor.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

[Removed by poster at 10/05/19 15:33:29]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 10/05/19 15:37:39]

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff


"Just wait until the Hampshire seperatists get started!

Freedom for Cornwall then Dorset and then Hampshire...

How did we get demoted to 3rd!?

Because I live in Dorset and I have Cornish family.Plus Hampshire is close to London .The revolution will start in the west and spread east to the Home Counties. "

Well I guess as we’ve got Wales in the bag, we might as well add in Devon, Somerset, Wiltshire and parts at least of Gloucestershire!

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By *avagliamMan
over a year ago

London


"Every empire disintegrates into pieces and new formations. This one ain't finished yet - still lots fault lines to go until natural order is restored "

England would then be completely fucked if needed to pay tariffs for trading with Scotland and Europe plus no longer having access to Scotland's black gold; Sounds economically catastrophic for England.

Scotland on the other side would then join the EU, built oil/gas pipes to Europe and become a little powerhouse...

Brexit would definitely benefit Scotland.

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

England buys its oil from the world market, Scotland is not the only source of oil available to it.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"England buys its oil from the world market, Scotland is not the only source of oil available to it. "

The point being made was that North Sea oil contributed about £13.5 Billion to GDP (thats nearly 10% of the total) last year.

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

How much in actual revenue?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Every empire disintegrates into pieces and new formations. This one ain't finished yet - still lots fault lines to go until natural order is restored

England would then be completely fucked if needed to pay tariffs for trading with Scotland and Europe plus no longer having access to Scotland's black gold; Sounds economically catastrophic for England.

Scotland on the other side would then join the EU, built oil/gas pipes to Europe and become a little powerhouse...

Brexit would definitely benefit Scotland.

"

Yes until the Far East started dumping oil on the open market then Scotland would be fucked

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By *avagliamMan
over a year ago

London


"England buys its oil from the world market, Scotland is not the only source of oil available to it.

The point being made was that North Sea oil contributed about £13.5 Billion to GDP (thats nearly 10% of the total) last year."

Exactly... Not good when losing 10+ percent of GDP on a year basis.

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff


"England buys its oil from the world market, Scotland is not the only source of oil available to it.

The point being made was that North Sea oil contributed about £13.5 Billion to GDP (thats nearly 10% of the total) last year.

Exactly... Not good when losing 10+ percent of GDP on a year basis."

Current UK GDP is $2.6trillion per annum. Whilst £13.5bn is not to be sneezed at (a bit like net EC contribution), it is only a small fraction of our GDP.

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By *avagliamMan
over a year ago

London


"England buys its oil from the world market, Scotland is not the only source of oil available to it.

The point being made was that North Sea oil contributed about £13.5 Billion to GDP (thats nearly 10% of the total) last year.

Exactly... Not good when losing 10+ percent of GDP on a year basis.

Current UK GDP is $2.6trillion per annum. Whilst £13.5bn is not to be sneezed at (a bit like net EC contribution), it is only a small fraction of our GDP."

Thank you.

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By *icklybitMan
over a year ago

Ayrshire

Last year it accounted for under £1.2bn in revenue.

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow


"Last year it accounted for under £1.2bn in revenue."

And a couple of years ago it actually cost us money (due to necessary tax breaks)

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

And Scotland would not have claim on all the North Sea oil. A percentage would come under English control.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"Last year it accounted for under £1.2bn in revenue."

That is direct tax revenue from the sale of oil. Now to get a real figure you need to then add on income tax and Ni paid by those who work in the industry and its supply chain and the transport industries used by that chain, then add all the income generated by the service industries that rely on the money supply that has North Sea oil as its original generator. The fact is, like it or not, North Sea oil is a massive contributor to the UK economy and its loss may well cripple the UK economy. Anyone who believes different is either badly misinformed or deluding themselves and should look to the coal towns of England to see the real result of removing a significant money stream from an economy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Last year it accounted for under £1.2bn in revenue.

That is direct tax revenue from the sale of oil. Now to get a real figure you need to then add on income tax and Ni paid by those who work in the industry and its supply chain and the transport industries used by that chain, then add all the income generated by the service industries that rely on the money supply that has North Sea oil as its original generator. The fact is, like it or not, North Sea oil is a massive contributor to the UK economy and its loss may well cripple the UK economy. Anyone who believes different is either badly misinformed or deluding themselves and should look to the coal towns of England to see the real result of removing a significant money stream from an economy."

Don't disagree with taxes being leveraged. However looking at coal mines is a bit skewed closing these took away the income but left behind the costs. If we lost the oil revenue because Scotland went awol, we'd also be carving out the costs of running Scotland. Full fact has a deficit of 15bn

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"And Scotland would not have claim on all the North Sea oil. A percentage would come under English control. "

Where?

Are you talking about the 2 gas/oil fields with low oil output in the Irish Sea? Or maybe the very small low output onshore wells in the West country? Or are you hoping that shale oil will replace North Sea oil (as I think may Tories are even if they will not admit it).

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

It varies but around 75 - 80% of oil and gas production is attributed to Scotland.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I reckon it will with northern ireland first then scotland, ireland and wales, as brexit have caused a too big devide, can it big fixed?"

Like the boil that brexit has become, you got three choices, lance it to relieve the pressure, or let it pop, or get some meds to clear the infection.

What do you think?

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"It varies but around 75 - 80% of oil and gas production is attributed to Scotland."

Nice move of goalposts there, we were discussing oil production of which well over 90% is Scottish. However as you say when gas (most of which is produced in English waters) is added the figure drops to near 75% (most, if not all, is used domestically).

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

[Removed by poster at 10/05/19 20:14:06]

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow


"It varies but around 75 - 80% of oil and gas production is attributed to Scotland.

Nice move of goalposts there, we were discussing oil production of which well over 90% is Scottish. However as you say when gas (most of which is produced in English waters) is added the figure drops to near 75% (most, if not all, is used domestically)."

Not a shift of goalposts at all, the offshore industry is normally all lumped together, whether that be by the OBR, the Scottish Govt etc. The revenues that were posted above also referred to oil AND gas so it appears that you may have been shifting the goalposts if you were referring to oil only.

Also, most gas isn't produced in English waters.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And another thing is as we move away from using fossil fuels and the like oil will drop in price line a stone

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"

I have also been against this warped version of “devolution,” where Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland can all have their own Parliament, but England can’t. That means that they can interfere in matters that only affect England, but get to keep matters that affect only themselves to there own Parliaments.

"

Where do you get the idea that England "cannot" devolve powers from the UK Parliament?

It can be done if people vote for it.

The people of Wales, the people of Northern Ireland, the people of Scotland, they all did.

Vote for it.

You can have it, too.

No need to feel deprived.

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By *nglishdoodMan
over a year ago

Morristown

[Removed by poster at 11/05/19 07:47:33]

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