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"I prefer my nazis out in the open.Easier targets..  "I agree. The problem with restricting political expression is it makes it hard to follow and counter what those being silenced in public are saying and doing in private. | |||
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"I wonder how close UKIP are to their criteria for shutting down hate sites? " I was wondering more about the Daily Mail. | |||
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"Facism only spreads through oppression , weather real or more importantly imagined( i.e. nazis thought the jews were running the show) this will only serve to empower the actual far right ..and further alienate those right of center" Everyone hates us, we don't care  | |||
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"Facism only spreads through oppression , weather real or more importantly imagined( i.e. nazis thought the jews were running the show) this will only serve to empower the actual far right ..and further alienate those right of center Everyone hates us, we don't care "I think hate is unreasonable, we don’t understand you, nor what the far right stands for  | |||
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"I'm not sure, normally I'd be against suppression of freedom to speak. In times like these I think it's best to silence those who incite violence. Idiots like Tommy Robinson who want it all to kick off. It's all very well calling for war, till you go d yourself in the midst of one. Losing family and friends fighting furiously over something so futile. Giving it a platform on Facebook legitimises it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the extreme left who call for violence either. If you can't control your aggression and hatred you've no right to your freedom - be it physical, or verbal. The keyboard is mightier than the sword. " I think you are misguided, although I understand your concern. Fact is there is no such right as 'free speech', there are laws that restrict what we can say and retributions in the form of fines and compensation orders (the latter having no limit) available to the courts to punish hate spreaders. They should be used. The likes of the far right mouthpieces should not banned from spreading their hate, they should be made to pay for it! Nige and the rest whose inflammatory brexit campaign led to the murder of Jo Cox should all be bankrupted and debarred from public office as undischarged bankrupts by now. Unfortunately the establishment (and therefore the courts) refuse to use the laws we have to their full extent for fear of falling foul of those same laws themselves. | |||
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"The keyboard is mightier than the sword. " Really? Wanna fight? I'll have the sword, you can have the keyboard... Bet you run away when I start swinging the sword in your direction! 
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"The keyboard is mightier than the sword. Really? Wanna fight? I'll have the sword, you can have the keyboard... Bet you run away when I start swinging the sword in your direction!
"Bet I don't  | |||
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"The keyboard is mightier than the sword. Really? Wanna fight? I'll have the sword, you can have the keyboard... Bet you run away when I start swinging the sword in your direction!
Bet I don't "And I'm not misguided, but thankyou for your thoughts | |||
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"I wonder how close UKIP are to their criteria for shutting down hate sites? " UKIP is nothing like these groups you have a vivid imagination | |||
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"Tommy Robinson and chums gone all soft-hearted, eh? " If someone happens to join a party it does not show the policies of the party.Look and Labour and Tory parties many viewpoints in them | |||
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"Bet I don't "You think, in the lower 6th (17) I finished 6th in the NW Regional fencing championship (foil). However being as you are near half my age (and having seen your profile photos) I do accept that could successfully evade my blade by running away and I would be unable to catch you.  | |||
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"I wonder how close UKIP are to their criteria for shutting down hate sites? UKIP is nothing like these groups you have a vivid imagination" Really.. Watch the article on todays channel 4 about the 2 candidates and their views and tweets on r#pe.. | |||
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"Tommy Robinson and chums gone all soft-hearted, eh? If someone happens to join a party it does not show the policies of the party.Look and Labour and Tory parties many viewpoints in them" No other party would take neo-Nazis in their midst. When UKIP is too extreme for the likes of Farage, you've got a serious problem. The old UKIP would be miles ahead in the polls. It's not. It's been hijacked by fascists. And very, very few people want anything to do with fascists. #antifa | |||
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"Tommy Robinson and chums gone all soft-hearted, eh? If someone happens to join a party it does not show the policies of the party.Look and Labour and Tory parties many viewpoints in them No other party would take neo-Nazis in their midst. When UKIP is too extreme for the likes of Farage, you've got a serious problem. The old UKIP would be miles ahead in the polls. It's not. It's been hijacked by fascists. And very, very few people want anything to do with fascists. #antifa" Possibly,I know I will vote for Farage if they stand in this area,at present UKIP hold the seat | |||
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"What are they gonna do with groups who are full of mental cunts, but not right OR left wing? " Full metal Cunt? I think I'd be proud to be called that If it's an extremist, fundamentalist ideology of a kind that gets people hurt and killed out of hatred. Then ban them too. Fucking wierdos need to go back to school and learn how to be a grown up.
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"What are they gonna do with groups who are full of mental cunts, but not right OR left wing? Full metal Cunt? I think I'd be proud to be called that If it's an extremist, fundamentalist ideology of a kind that gets people hurt and killed out of hatred. Then ban them too. Fucking wierdos need to go back to school and learn how to be a grown up.
"Or attend school in the first place. | |||
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"What are they gonna do with groups who are full of mental cunts, but not right OR left wing? " renew there membership of the libdems | |||
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"No complaint about banning the racist right but what about the xenophobic left?" Xenephobic left? | |||
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"About bloody time" . I agree, of course it depends on your definition of far right, according to most on here anybody that says anything they don't like is far right, Nigel farage is far right, Boris Johnson, Micheal gove and when do we get the ban on the far left?, when do we get the ban on religious extremists and most importantly of all, who decides who's what?. My mum is the only person I trust and she's a Nazi so that's a no no | |||
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"No complaint about banning the racist right but what about the xenophobic left? Xenephobic left? " just what I was thinking - can’t really say I’ve ever thought the “left” was xenophobic ? | |||
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"About bloody time. I agree, of course it depends on your definition of far right, according to most on here anybody that says anything they don't like is far right, Nigel farage is far right, Boris Johnson, Micheal gove and when do we get the ban on the far left?, when do we get the ban on religious extremists and most importantly of all, who decides who's what?. My mum is the only person I trust and she's a Nazi so that's a no no "In peaceful times I'm happy with total freedom of speech. In times of high tension and civil unrest.. which is building.. I'd prefer to see a crackdown on anyone enciting violence, preaching hatred and fundamentalism. Its a hard question who gets to decide and when I grant you that, but an idea worth mulling over. | |||
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"About bloody time. I agree, of course it depends on your definition of far right, according to most on here anybody that says anything they don't like is far right, Nigel farage is far right, Boris Johnson, Micheal gove and when do we get the ban on the far left?, when do we get the ban on religious extremists and most importantly of all, who decides who's what?. My mum is the only person I trust and she's a Nazi so that's a no no
In peaceful times I'm happy with total freedom of speech. In times of high tension and civil unrest.. which is building.. I'd prefer to see a crackdown on anyone enciting violence, preaching hatred and fundamentalism.
Its a hard question who gets to decide and when I grant you that, but an idea worth mulling over. ". High tension and civil unrest doesn't go away with censorship, ask anybody that lived under communism. Inciting violence has always been illegal, fundamentalism? Well what of, fundamental football fans, fundamental fans of take that?. I'm no fan of religions but I'm also no fan of stopping people being a fundamentalist Jew Muslim or Christian if they want to believe homosexuality is wrong by applying a fundamentalist philosophy who am I to tell them no?. Preaching hatred, that's the tough one what's hate speech who defines it can I be offended by leftists talking shite on here? And who are you to tell me I can't be offended by it?. It's all so vague I'm afraid my default position is freedom of speech until somebody can give me some rules to mull over. | |||
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"Facism only spreads through oppression , weather real or more importantly imagined( i.e. nazis thought the jews were running the show) this will only serve to empower the actual far right ..and further alienate those right of center" I'm right of center and it doesn't alienate me at all. In fact I'm happy about it. Having some of these racist people spouting their total shit is no favour to the center right, one nation cause. | |||
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"Facism only spreads through oppression , weather real or more importantly imagined( i.e. nazis thought the jews were running the show) this will only serve to empower the actual far right ..and further alienate those right of center I'm right of center and it doesn't alienate me at all. In fact I'm happy about it. Having some of these racist people spouting their total shit is no favour to the center right, one nation cause. " . That statement is bollocks, if you apply that rule all women are fascist because they were oppressed, all surf's, all slaves EVERYBODY in the world has been oppressed at one time or another, personally I think what causes fascism is censorship which is why all fascist dictators apply censorship. Opposing ideas and free rigourous debate without fear of persecution is the greatest achievement of the West and one we seem more willing by the day to throw under the bus because well, we've all turned into emotional snowflakes. It will be the end of us as a society when this and it will gets enacted. | |||
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"when do we get the ban on the far left?" Can you name some of these on the far left that are making hate speeches please? | |||
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"when do we get the ban on the far left? Can you name some of these on the far left that are making hate speeches please?" Jackie Walker, Sheila Argument, Ken Livingstone, Mike Amesbury, Philhomena Hearn.....the list is endless | |||
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"when do we get the ban on the far left? Can you name some of these on the far left that are making hate speeches please? Jackie Walker, Sheila Argument, Ken Livingstone, Mike Amesbury, Philhomena Hearn.....the list is endless" There's someone called Sheila argument?? Can we get some examples of these far left hate speeches and I assume you've reported them?? Who are they directed against. | |||
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"Facism only spreads through oppression , weather real or more importantly imagined( i.e. nazis thought the jews were running the show) this will only serve to empower the actual far right ..and further alienate those right of center I'm right of center and it doesn't alienate me at all. In fact I'm happy about it. Having some of these racist people spouting their total shit is no favour to the center right, one nation cause. . That statement is bollocks, if you apply that rule all women are fascist because they were oppressed, all surf's, all slaves EVERYBODY in the world has been oppressed at one time or another, personally I think what causes fascism is censorship which is why all fascist dictators apply censorship. Opposing ideas and free rigourous debate without fear of persecution is the greatest achievement of the West and one we seem more willing by the day to throw under the bus because well, we've all turned into emotional snowflakes. It will be the end of us as a society when this and it will gets enacted." I read it that oppression is necesary for fascism. Not that all oppressed are fascists. But all fascists are (or feel) oppressed. (same as all racists vote for brexit, but not all leave voters are racist line) Back on topic Facebook et al get panned for allowing fake news to be published unchecked. Yet everyone wants to publish their views unabated. But I do see the argument that it's censorship. And agree the freedoms we have are a great part of our world. Altnough I do note some who support those banned are also those who don't like freedom to choose language they speak in (free speach as long as its English). Or they want Islamic preachers silenced. Or they don't like the freedom to wear burkas. Or the freedom to protest environment concerns. This isn't pointing at any posters here BTW. | |||
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"No complaint about banning the racist right but what about the xenophobic left? Xenephobic left? just what I was thinking - can’t really say I’ve ever thought the “left” was xenophobic ?" To be fair, anti-semitism in the Labour party and on the left in general is a thing. I'm pretty lefty but it does us no good to deny that. (not that every accusation of anti-semitism is fair, and not that Israel the country doesn't deserve criticism.) | |||
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"when do we get the ban on the far left? Can you name some of these on the far left that are making hate speeches please? Jackie Walker, Sheila Argument, Ken Livingstone, Mike Amesbury, Philhomena Hearn.....the list is endless There's someone called Sheila argument?? Can we get some examples of these far left hate speeches and I assume you've reported them?? Who are they directed against. " Actually they were reported and are still being investigated..... | |||
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"....and in two cases, there is finality with two of the above no longer members of the Labour Party. But isn't the point this? They are not banned by social media companies for proven racial aggravation." Don't bother mate....he never can admit that any left leaning person is anything but a deity and would never do wrong lol. | |||
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"....and in two cases, there is finality with two of the above no longer members of the Labour Party. But isn't the point this? They are not banned by social media companies for proven racial aggravation." Then report them on Facebook .Unless your saying FB is purposely allowing it.Are you suggesting bias against far right and a free pass for far left? | |||
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"Facism only spreads through oppression , weather real or more importantly imagined( i.e. nazis thought the jews were running the show) this will only serve to empower the actual far right ..and further alienate those right of center I'm right of center and it doesn't alienate me at all. In fact I'm happy about it. Having some of these racist people spouting their total shit is no favour to the center right, one nation cause. . That statement is bollocks, if you apply that rule all women are fascist because they were oppressed, all surf's, all slaves EVERYBODY in the world has been oppressed at one time or another, personally I think what causes fascism is censorship which is why all fascist dictators apply censorship. Opposing ideas and free rigourous debate without fear of persecution is the greatest achievement of the West and one we seem more willing by the day to throw under the bus because well, we've all turned into emotional snowflakes. It will be the end of us as a society when this and it will gets enacted. I read it that oppression is necesary for fascism. Not that all oppressed are fascists. But all fascists are (or feel) oppressed. (same as all racists vote for brexit, but not all leave voters are racist line) Back on topic Facebook et al get panned for allowing fake news to be published unchecked. Yet everyone wants to publish their views unabated. But I do see the argument that it's censorship. And agree the freedoms we have are a great part of our world. Altnough I do note some who support those banned are also those who don't like freedom to choose language they speak in (free speach as long as its English). Or they want Islamic preachers silenced. Or they don't like the freedom to wear burkas. Or the freedom to protest environment concerns. This isn't pointing at any posters here BTW. " . It's important to realise that arguing against the mainstream acceptance is called advancement, homosexuality would still be illegal if nobody was allowed to argue against mainstream acceptability, shut up your offending the religious and conservatives would have been the reply, womens voting rights properly horrified some Victorian men (and women) slavery, hunting fox's, paedophilic priests, women bishops, the Vatican's role in the Nazi party, the list is endless and all were rigourously defended by both sides!. I may oppose remain but not only should but you must oppose it as a remainer and vice versa. The fact is we all have a system where we have to move with the consensus but must be allowed to argue against it with the only proviso being you cannot incite violence, if it really does offend you to hear opposing words and views then I'm afraid you'll just have to be live with being offended. | |||
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"Political correctness enforced censorship and blatantly opposes freedom of speech and expression. They have been forcing this bullshit on the internet for years, and now on social media too. First they give everyone a voice, then they take away the voices of those they disagree with. Backdoor communism." You do have freedom of speech, you'll just also face the consequences if said freedom of speech for you is also hate speech. It's pretty simple to understand. | |||
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"Facism only spreads through oppression , weather real or more importantly imagined( i.e. nazis thought the jews were running the show) this will only serve to empower the actual far right ..and further alienate those right of center I'm right of center and it doesn't alienate me at all. In fact I'm happy about it. Having some of these racist people spouting their total shit is no favour to the center right, one nation cause. . That statement is bollocks, if you apply that rule all women are fascist because they were oppressed, all surf's, all slaves EVERYBODY in the world has been oppressed at one time or another, personally I think what causes fascism is censorship which is why all fascist dictators apply censorship. Opposing ideas and free rigourous debate without fear of persecution is the greatest achievement of the West and one we seem more willing by the day to throw under the bus because well, we've all turned into emotional snowflakes. It will be the end of us as a society when this and it will gets enacted. I read it that oppression is necesary for fascism. Not that all oppressed are fascists. But all fascists are (or feel) oppressed. (same as all racists vote for brexit, but not all leave voters are racist line) Back on topic Facebook et al get panned for allowing fake news to be published unchecked. Yet everyone wants to publish their views unabated. But I do see the argument that it's censorship. And agree the freedoms we have are a great part of our world. Altnough I do note some who support those banned are also those who don't like freedom to choose language they speak in (free speach as long as its English). Or they want Islamic preachers silenced. Or they don't like the freedom to wear burkas. Or the freedom to protest environment concerns. This isn't pointing at any posters here BTW. . It's important to realise that arguing against the mainstream acceptance is called advancement, homosexuality would still be illegal if nobody was allowed to argue against mainstream acceptability, shut up your offending the religious and conservatives would have been the reply, womens voting rights properly horrified some Victorian men (and women) slavery, hunting fox's, paedophilic priests, women bishops, the Vatican's role in the Nazi party, the list is endless and all were rigourously defended by both sides!. I may oppose remain but not only should but you must oppose it as a remainer and vice versa. The fact is we all have a system where we have to move with the consensus but must be allowed to argue against it with the only proviso being you cannot incite violence, if it really does offend you to hear opposing words and views then I'm afraid you'll just have to be live with being offended." I'm not sure if youre arguing one of my points or just reaffirming a statement. I don't disagree we need dissent v voices. I'm just saying if you argue for freedom of voice you have to allow the islamist preacher to preach. And possibly even some fake newsers to pedal propoganda. One can't be selective on what voices can be heard. It seems some alt fighters (at least on twitter) want the freedom for their hero's but not their enemies. | |||
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"Political correctness enforced censorship and blatantly opposes freedom of speech and expression. They have been forcing this bullshit on the internet for years, and now on social media too. First they give everyone a voice, then they take away the voices of those they disagree with. Backdoor communism." So you want to give far right groups like national action ect a free platform to preach their crap then ? Or allow isis to broadcast their hate speech all in the name of free speech  | |||
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"Political correctness enforced censorship and blatantly opposes freedom of speech and expression. They have been forcing this bullshit on the internet for years, and now on social media too. First they give everyone a voice, then they take away the voices of those they disagree with. Backdoor communism. You do have freedom of speech, you'll just also face the consequences if said freedom of speech for you is also hate speech. It's pretty simple to understand. " I'm yet to read or hear a clear definition of hate speech. It usually boils down to what a particular person finds offensive or disagrees with. Goalposts on wheels with a whopping big turbo charger. I'm just so glad i've never had a face book page nor have i sent or read a tweet in my life! | |||
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"Political correctness enforced censorship and blatantly opposes freedom of speech and expression. They have been forcing this bullshit on the internet for years, and now on social media too. First they give everyone a voice, then they take away the voices of those they disagree with. Backdoor communism. So you want to give far right groups like national action ect a free platform to preach their crap then ? Or allow isis to broadcast their hate speech all in the name of free speech ". Yes because banning Islamist preachers (which they have done for years) has really stopped the spread of Islamists hasn't it?. To me allowing other Muslims to challenge Islamists ideas and speeches without fear of persecution would have put the whole thing to bed earlier, theres a reason the crazy Islamists target decenting Muslim voices you know. | |||
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"Political correctness enforced censorship and blatantly opposes freedom of speech and expression. They have been forcing this bullshit on the internet for years, and now on social media too. First they give everyone a voice, then they take away the voices of those they disagree with. Backdoor communism. So you want to give far right groups like national action ect a free platform to preach their crap then ? Or allow isis to broadcast their hate speech all in the name of free speech "National Action, as was, was a bunch of students with a bunch of insane ideas. By banning them, the govt created a monster. It’s all underground and dangerous now. Banning groups over remarks and ideology is not going to help anyone. | |||
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"Political correctness enforced censorship and blatantly opposes freedom of speech and expression. They have been forcing this bullshit on the internet for years, and now on social media too. First they give everyone a voice, then they take away the voices of those they disagree with. Backdoor communism. So you want to give far right groups like national action ect a free platform to preach their crap then ? Or allow isis to broadcast their hate speech all in the name of free speech
National Action, as was, was a bunch of students with a bunch of insane ideas. By banning them, the govt created a monster. It’s all underground and dangerous now. Banning groups over remarks and ideology is not going to help anyone."I'm sure nobody wants people like Alice cutter of national action to have voice when she said in a private one-to-one chat group with (a convicted National Action member) that what she considered a good thing was a game of football in which the ball was a Jew’s decapitated head so that the Jew, in her words, or similar words, got a good kicking every time.” Who wants her to have a voice??? | |||
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"I'm yet to read or hear a clear definition of hate speech. It usually boils down to what a particular person finds offensive or disagrees with. Goalposts on wheels with a whopping big turbo charger. I'm just so glad i've never had a face book page nor have i sent or read a tweet in my life! " Usually racism, promoting hate towards certain demographics, etc, you can't sit there with a straight face and say far rights groups haven't spoke about such  | |||
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"Political correctness enforced censorship and blatantly opposes freedom of speech and expression. They have been forcing this bullshit on the internet for years, and now on social media too. First they give everyone a voice, then they take away the voices of those they disagree with. Backdoor communism. So you want to give far right groups like national action ect a free platform to preach their crap then ? Or allow isis to broadcast their hate speech all in the name of free speech
National Action, as was, was a bunch of students with a bunch of insane ideas. By banning them, the govt created a monster. It’s all underground and dangerous now. Banning groups over remarks and ideology is not going to help anyone.
I'm sure nobody wants people like Alice cutter of national action to have voice when she said in a private one-to-one chat group with (a convicted National Action member) that what she considered a good thing was a game of football in which the ball was a Jew’s decapitated head so that the Jew, in her words, or similar words, got a good kicking every time.”
Who wants her to have a voice???"If she has no voice then nobody will know how utterly insane she is. The fact that comment got out will only get her negative attention. | |||
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"I'm yet to read or hear a clear definition of hate speech. It usually boils down to what a particular person finds offensive or disagrees with. Goalposts on wheels with a whopping big turbo charger. I'm just so glad i've never had a face book page nor have i sent or read a tweet in my life! Usually racism, promoting hate towards certain demographics, etc, you can't sit there with a straight face and say far rights groups haven't spoke about such "i tend to ignore what these people say...on the left or the right. | |||
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"Political correctness enforced censorship and blatantly opposes freedom of speech and expression. They have been forcing this bullshit on the internet for years, and now on social media too. First they give everyone a voice, then they take away the voices of those they disagree with. Backdoor communism. So you want to give far right groups like national action ect a free platform to preach their crap then ? Or allow isis to broadcast their hate speech all in the name of free speech
National Action, as was, was a bunch of students with a bunch of insane ideas. By banning them, the govt created a monster. It’s all underground and dangerous now. Banning groups over remarks and ideology is not going to help anyone.
I'm sure nobody wants people like Alice cutter of national action to have voice when she said in a private one-to-one chat group with (a convicted National Action member) that what she considered a good thing was a game of football in which the ball was a Jew’s decapitated head so that the Jew, in her words, or similar words, got a good kicking every time.”
Who wants her to have a voice???
If she has no voice then nobody will know how utterly insane she is. The fact that comment got out will only get her negative attention."Hopefully you can see why our security services see this group as dangerous .I trust our security services can make the correct decisions. She's obviously free to be a neo nazi .Not that it's a crime. | |||
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"Political correctness enforced censorship and blatantly opposes freedom of speech and expression. They have been forcing this bullshit on the internet for years, and now on social media too. First they give everyone a voice, then they take away the voices of those they disagree with. Backdoor communism. So you want to give far right groups like national action ect a free platform to preach their crap then ? Or allow isis to broadcast their hate speech all in the name of free speech
National Action, as was, was a bunch of students with a bunch of insane ideas. By banning them, the govt created a monster. It’s all underground and dangerous now. Banning groups over remarks and ideology is not going to help anyone.
I'm sure nobody wants people like Alice cutter of national action to have voice when she said in a private one-to-one chat group with (a convicted National Action member) that what she considered a good thing was a game of football in which the ball was a Jew’s decapitated head so that the Jew, in her words, or similar words, got a good kicking every time.”
Who wants her to have a voice???
If she has no voice then nobody will know how utterly insane she is. The fact that comment got out will only get her negative attention.
Hopefully you can see why our security services see this group as dangerous .I trust our security services can make the correct decisions.
She's obviously free to be a neo nazi .Not that it's a crime."They are dangerous now, any proscribed organisation will attract the worst of the lunatic fringes. I do also remember before they were banned, when they tried to organise a march through Liverpool. They said that if the March was obstructed there would be repercussions. They literally called everyone out, and ended up cowering in the lost property room at the train station. A bunch of frightened kids hiding while the baying mob outside were threatening to tare them limb from limb. They were not so dangerous when out in the open. THAT is what I’m trying to say. | |||
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"Banning far right is one thing, but where is this heading? Gradually moving onto more and more things being banned over time until in the end there is only one narrative left? Censorship by stealth. To begin with, it doesn't seem so unreasonable, even if I do have reservations over free speech, but when it starts to encroach onto ever more valid things that matter to us there will be a problem." Twitter is a private company, private companies do not censor anything or one, In the same way as Fab reserve the right to refuse to publish some photos or let us say anything we want on this forum. The idea that a private individual or enterprise should not have the right to control what is said or done in or on their property is ridicules, I am sure you would be the first to throw someone out of your home if you objected to views they were expressing about swingers in your property to your swinger guests at a party. And before you tell me my example is different, the only difference is scale, and that is no difference (unless it is that you have a secret list of those who will never know about swinger parties at your property). Censorship is something only sovereign countries can do, so please guys don't call this prohibition censorship. | |||
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