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"Jess Phillips made an incredible speech in the commons yesterday and I thought I’d leave it here for those who may have missed it. https://youtu.be/ZIfgyVpLGjA It is of course also available on Hansard if you wish to read it, but I didn’t want to post a wall of text. " Wasn't the best of speeches. I did make a similar post on a different thread. Where do Labour votes stand on this? As, they are just as responsible for no deal as the Torys. The ERG are explicit in voting against the deal due to: the backstop and WTO rules - that the deal isn't hard enough. Labour are voting against because why? Because of financial reasons unknown to them, because of voter reasons unknown to them, because of Brexit plans unknown to them. Yes because of the backstop (which seems to have some caveats) but so far I haven't heard environment or citizens rights be an issue raised since May came back from Brussels. Much as I voted Remain, it seems Labour do not want to realise or own up to the fact Brexit is happening? | |||
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"Is this country now in need of a overhaul...and a new political party of honesty and people who represent there constituents..by majority " We should have a referendum to find out if that's what people really want. I'd vote for PR  | |||
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"Perfect example of MP's not wanting to lose their seats are the Tiggers or the newly formed Independent group. It's been funny as fuck watching them squirm over recent days in television interviews on the news channels as they try to reason for a 2nd referendum but when it's put to them that they should give their constituents a 2nd vote in by elections none of them want it because they know they'll lose their seats. They are pure self centred, self serving scum who are only looking to preserve their own interests. " Is Nigel standing down from his UKIP Brexit seat, has he ever considered it? We elect MPs and not parties in this country - for better or worse. | |||
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"Perfect example of MP's not wanting to lose their seats are the Tiggers or the newly formed Independent group. It's been funny as fuck watching them squirm over recent days in television interviews on the news channels as they try to reason for a 2nd referendum but when it's put to them that they should give their constituents a 2nd vote in by elections none of them want it because they know they'll lose their seats. They are pure self centred, self serving scum who are only looking to preserve their own interests. Is Nigel standing down from his UKIP Brexit seat, has he ever considered it? We elect MPs and not parties in this country - for better or worse." If Brexit is delivered on March 29th as Nigel Farage campaigned for then he will cease to be a British MEP. If we don't leave and article 50 is extended beyond May everyone will have the chance to vote in European MEP elections in May, only 2 short months away. | |||
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" Much as I voted Remain, it seems Labour do not want to realise or own up to the fact Brexit is happening?" Labour did not win the election, so is not in a position to implement its manifesto. The system is adversarial, not consensual. The Conservatives won the election and , with the DUP votes, has the majority to implement its manifesto. It is a hard-core in the Conservative Party and DUP who are stopping the Conservatives from delivering the manifesto pledge to exit the EU. The idea that is Labour’s job to implement Tory policy - or the SNP or the Lib Dems for that matter - is a peculiar take on the matter. Their role in the system we have is to oppose. | |||
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"Jess Phillips made an incredible speech in the commons yesterday and I thought I’d leave it here for those who may have missed it. https://youtu.be/ZIfgyVpLGjA It is of course also available on Hansard if you wish to read it, but I didn’t want to post a wall of text. Wasn't the best of speeches. I did make a similar post on a different thread. Where do Labour votes stand on this? As, they are just as responsible for no deal as the Torys. The ERG are explicit in voting against the deal due to: the backstop and WTO rules - that the deal isn't hard enough. Labour are voting against because why? Because of financial reasons unknown to them, because of voter reasons unknown to them, because of Brexit plans unknown to them. Yes because of the backstop (which seems to have some caveats) but so far I haven't heard environment or citizens rights be an issue raised since May came back from Brussels. Much as I voted Remain, it seems Labour do not want to realise or own up to the fact Brexit is happening?" I’m not always in agreement with Jess Phillips but what she said yesterday was something I personally (and I think many others) appreciated an MP having the nerve to say. There are too many MPs hiding behind the convenient ‘will of the people’ line. As set out before the referendum by both houses - so by their own determination, or definition, the will of the people was not found. By their own definition it amounted to a shrug. This is undeniable as we know the threshold was not met. So to now not only pretend that it was and still is the people’s will, and to hide behind that because they’re too scared (or worse) to stick their neck out for the good of the people is deeply immoral. “Where do Labour votes stand on this? As, they are just as responsible for no deal as the Torys.” This isn’t true. I would have liked Labour to have not voted to trigger Article 50 back in 2016, however i understand why it was necessary for them to do so - the mainstream media would of painted Labour as anti-democratic which would have further empowered the Tories and their plans. It’s true though that it has been mostly argued from an economic perspective from both leavers and remainers. However the environment and at least people’s health have been raised. But there should be more emphasis on this and the loss of rights and protective regulations. GDP alone has never been the only factor which determines the quality of life for society. You can go to nations with much lower GDP than the UK and find a far higher quality of existence for the people. This should be mentioned far more than it is. Even in this forum people generally argue mostly on a economic basis. Look at Brazil. A country with incredible natural wealth, far beyond that of some of the world’s richest economies. Yet millions of their people live in terrible poverty. This is because their government, like many others around the world, has had unscrupulous leaders who have sold out to the US. They’ve allowed US corporations to create policy inside their country and take that natural wealth for their own, leaving the country and its people poor. ‘The Americanisation of Brazil’ as it was termed. This is essentially what’s happening to the UK right now. I know that the Labour leadership are aware of what is happening, but it is not as simple as saying so or only acting with that in mind. They must consider not only what is - but also what the MSM could portray it to be. This is why we must all fight for real regulation of the media. They add another level of complexity to any situation which really damages our democracy and often ties MPs hands or makes them take strange routes to get things done. | |||
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" Much as I voted Remain, it seems Labour do not want to realise or own up to the fact Brexit is happening? Labour did not win the election, so is not in a position to implement its manifesto. The system is adversarial, not consensual. The Conservatives won the election and , with the DUP votes, has the majority to implement its manifesto. It is a hard-core in the Conservative Party and DUP who are stopping the Conservatives from delivering the manifesto pledge to exit the EU. The idea that is Labour’s job to implement Tory policy - or the SNP or the Lib Dems for that matter - is a peculiar take on the matter. Their role in the system we have is to oppose." For arguments sake: Labour should still offer a Brexit plan. They are to "honour the referendum", so should publish a workable alternative, not every alternative. It was a Tory and Lib government that gave the electorate the referendum. The Libs have got off scot free in all of this - much as it has always been a Tory sticking point. Wouldn't it be a National policy given Parliament overwhelmingly voted to invoke A50 (550 votes I think?). I can understand the SNP and Lib position (remain) just not Labours.. as everything is opposed and everything on the table; Canada++ Norway+, Mexico+/-, Customs+, Single market+, remain, revoke? It is one reason for the confusion and one reason why clarity in next stage needs better leadership. | |||
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"I bet my MP will be losing his seat. Can't stand the man. He is a complete and utter Ignoramus. He has put all our futures at risk with his stupidity and will not get my vote again. FOr your info his nickname is Wiggy "In most cases we vote for parties and not our local MP,which is not the way it was devised to be.It is a personality competion so the elected are not being elected for the right reasons I reckon.It is a bit like UK has got talent and like the tv show vey few of them have any talent to qualify them to be MP's | |||
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"I bet my MP will be losing his seat. Can't stand the man. He is a complete and utter Ignoramus. He has put all our futures at risk with his stupidity and will not get my vote again. FOr your info his nickname is Wiggy In most cases we vote for parties and not our local MP,which is not the way it was devised to be.It is a personality competion so the elected are not being elected for the right reasons I reckon.It is a bit like UK has got talent and like the tv show vey few of them have any talent to qualify them to be MP's"People should not vote for parties or people really but policies. (As long as that policy is found within a party which has a chance of winning) | |||
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"I bet my MP will be losing his seat. Can't stand the man. He is a complete and utter Ignoramus. He has put all our futures at risk with his stupidity and will not get my vote again. FOr your info his nickname is Wiggy In most cases we vote for parties and not our local MP,which is not the way it was devised to be.It is a personality competion so the elected are not being elected for the right reasons I reckon.It is a bit like UK has got talent and like the tv show vey few of them have any talent to qualify them to be MP's
People should not vote for parties or people really but policies.
(As long as that policy is found within a party which has a chance of winning)Totally agree with you the problem is they dont stick to their manifestos once in.
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"I bet my MP will be losing his seat. Can't stand the man. He is a complete and utter Ignoramus. He has put all our futures at risk with his stupidity and will not get my vote again. FOr your info his nickname is Wiggy In most cases we vote for parties and not our local MP,which is not the way it was devised to be.It is a personality competion so the elected are not being elected for the right reasons I reckon.It is a bit like UK has got talent and like the tv show vey few of them have any talent to qualify them to be MP's"The system we have was designed for the days when few people could read and write, and the news took days to reach you. It is a series of 650 mini-elections. Most of the votes cast do not count beyond the boundary of the constituency - only those of the candidate who came first go forward to the next round. | |||
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"Yes you have hit the nail on the head! They will always look after their own interests first. Hey nobody wants to lose a £77,000 + expenses job, and for the super pension they need 15 years service!" Do you really think Rhys Mogg does it for a paltry 77k + expenses? He just bought a £5 million pad close to parliament , probably so he can nip out of the office & instruct his hedge fund to go long or short on this or that to Coin in even more Hedge Fund profits | |||
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" Much as I voted Remain, it seems Labour do not want to realise or own up to the fact Brexit is happening? Labour did not win the election, so is not in a position to implement its manifesto. The system is adversarial, not consensual. The Conservatives won the election and , with the DUP votes, has the majority to implement its manifesto. It is a hard-core in the Conservative Party and DUP who are stopping the Conservatives from delivering the manifesto pledge to exit the EU. The idea that is Labour’s job to implement Tory policy - or the SNP or the Lib Dems for that matter - is a peculiar take on the matter. Their role in the system we have is to oppose." Which, quite frankly, they've not done particularly well at when it comes to BREXIT. | |||
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"Which, quite frankly, they've not done particularly well at when it comes to BREXIT. " Really? From where I am looking it seems as if they are doing a fine job in disrupting brexit without doing much at all. Sometimes inaction can be more effective than action. After all every time the Tories feel threatened by JC they close ranks and unite, therefore the best way for JC to defeat them is to be quiet and dropping pebbles in their brexit pond and watching the waves of discontent grow as the Tories fight amongst themselves. | |||
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" Which, quite frankly, they've not done particularly well at when it comes to BREXIT. " People's reasons may be different, but I think it's true to say people are feeling really let down by ALL politicians at the moment. | |||
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"Which, quite frankly, they've not done particularly well at when it comes to BREXIT. Really? From where I am looking it seems as if they are doing a fine job in disrupting brexit without doing much at all. Sometimes inaction can be more effective than action. After all every time the Tories feel threatened by JC they close ranks and unite, therefore the best way for JC to defeat them is to be quiet and dropping pebbles in their brexit pond and watching the waves of discontent grow as the Tories fight amongst themselves. " Spot on | |||
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"Which, quite frankly, they've not done particularly well at when it comes to BREXIT. Really? From where I am looking it seems as if they are doing a fine job in disrupting brexit without doing much at all. Sometimes inaction can be more effective than action. After all every time the Tories feel threatened by JC they close ranks and unite, therefore the best way for JC to defeat them is to be quiet and dropping pebbles in their brexit pond and watching the waves of discontent grow as the Tories fight amongst themselves. " I don't want to get too heavily into a discussion as to whether Labour have been cunningly strategic or stunningly ineffectual. My personal feeling is that a clearer message from Labour about the truly disastrous nature of BREXIT would have been a better approach to stopping BREXIT. This cunningly strategic approach may (or may not) be good for Labour's longer term electoral success but, as I'm not a Labour supporter, although would currently consider voting for them, I'm more concerned about stopping BREXIT. | |||
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"Which, quite frankly, they've not done particularly well at when it comes to BREXIT. Really? From where I am looking it seems as if they are doing a fine job in disrupting brexit without doing much at all. Sometimes inaction can be more effective than action. After all every time the Tories feel threatened by JC they close ranks and unite, therefore the best way for JC to defeat them is to be quiet and dropping pebbles in their brexit pond and watching the waves of discontent grow as the Tories fight amongst themselves. I don't want to get too heavily into a discussion as to whether Labour have been cunningly strategic or stunningly ineffectual. My personal feeling is that a clearer message from Labour about the truly disastrous nature of BREXIT would have been a better approach to stopping BREXIT. This cunningly strategic approach may (or may not) be good for Labour's longer term electoral success but, as I'm not a Labour supporter, although would currently consider voting for them, I'm more concerned about stopping BREXIT. " ‘Never interrupt your enemy whilst they’re making a mistake’ Brexit is a Tory scheme. Allowing them enough rope to hang themselves seems like good tactics to me. | |||
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"Which, quite frankly, they've not done particularly well at when it comes to BREXIT. Really? From where I am looking it seems as if they are doing a fine job in disrupting brexit without doing much at all. Sometimes inaction can be more effective than action. After all every time the Tories feel threatened by JC they close ranks and unite, therefore the best way for JC to defeat them is to be quiet and dropping pebbles in their brexit pond and watching the waves of discontent grow as the Tories fight amongst themselves. " The Tory's have always been split on the EU. Brexit divides the house as much as it does the country. If you voted remain and Labour, seeing their plans to stay in the customs union is great. If you voted Breixt and Labour seeing them disrupt the process and send us to WTO is great. The same in principle applies to Tory voters (the deal is good or the ERG keeps us out). The only ones who should be truly annoyed in all of this are the Ukip, Lib and Green voters. To put this down to an overarching tactic is giving Corbyn too much credit. They just don't have a plan and have a leadership consumed in anit-EU sentiment but have a philosophy of Democratic voice. | |||
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"Where I live ...labour mp who was voted in by students who listened to jc ..lies....one who is an accountant who does not know what money has been spent on his campaign . .one who is an expert at brown envelopes and helping friends ...with council /planning development areas....." Let’s see who Corbyn tries to bribe/fool next election. My moneys on the pensioners.. lol | |||
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"Have you noticed they have shut right up about another election?.If there was one now i think most leavers would vote for a leave party for eg ukip i dont think any leaver would vote for labour or tory as we have seen they cant be trusted to do what the people want(you dont matter im voting with my conscience).Then the remain vote would be split between labour ,tory,greens and liberals that would put a spanner in the works and put a lot of them out of work and then maybe vthey will understand the meaning of democracy." Ukip is as close as you can get to a fascist party in the UK, so pretty unlikely many people will vote for them now. It is however likely that people will remember this mess and will hold many MPs to account. I’d quite like the SNP to start fielding candidates in the rest of the UK as they have offered more sane comment than most MPs  | |||
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"Have you noticed they have shut right up about another election?.If there was one now i think most leavers would vote for a leave party for eg ukip i dont think any leaver would vote for labour or tory as we have seen they cant be trusted to do what the people want(you dont matter im voting with my conscience).Then the remain vote would be split between labour ,tory,greens and liberals that would put a spanner in the works and put a lot of them out of work and then maybe vthey will understand the meaning of democracy. Ukip is as close as you can get to a fascist party in the UK, so pretty unlikely many people will vote for them now. It is however likely that people will remember this mess and will hold many MPs to account. I’d quite like the SNP to start fielding candidates in the rest of the UK as they have offered more sane comment than most MPs "SNP ?you must be joking. | |||
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" Which, quite frankly, they've not done particularly well at when it comes to BREXIT. People's reasons may be different, but I think it's true to say people are feeling really let down by ALL politicians at the moment. " | |||
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"Have you noticed they have shut right up about another election?.If there was one now i think most leavers would vote for a leave party for eg ukip i dont think any leaver would vote for labour or tory as we have seen they cant be trusted to do what the people want(you dont matter im voting with my conscience).Then the remain vote would be split between labour ,tory,greens and liberals that would put a spanner in the works and put a lot of them out of work and then maybe vthey will understand the meaning of democracy. Ukip is as close as you can get to a fascist party in the UK, so pretty unlikely many people will vote for them now. It is however likely that people will remember this mess and will hold many MPs to account. I’d quite like the SNP to start fielding candidates in the rest of the UK as they have offered more sane comment than most MPs SNP ?you must be joking."Why not, they’ve at least been pretty honest about what they want and haven’t lied to people. | |||
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"Jess Phillips made an incredible speech in the commons yesterday and I thought I’d leave it here for those who may have missed it. https://youtu.be/ZIfgyVpLGjA It is of course also available on Hansard if you wish to read it, but I didn’t want to post a wall of text. Wasn't the best of speeches. I did make a similar post on a different thread. Where do Labour votes stand on this? As, they are just as responsible for no deal as the Torys. The ERG are explicit in voting against the deal due to: the backstop and WTO rules - that the deal isn't hard enough. Labour are voting against because why? Because of financial reasons unknown to them, because of voter reasons unknown to them, because of Brexit plans unknown to them. Yes because of the backstop (which seems to have some caveats) but so far I haven't heard environment or citizens rights be an issue raised since May came back from Brussels. Much as I voted Remain, it seems Labour do not want to realise or own up to the fact Brexit is happening? I’m not always in agreement with Jess Phillips but what she said yesterday was something I personally (and I think many others) appreciated an MP having the nerve to say. There are too many MPs hiding behind the convenient ‘will of the people’ line. As set out before the referendum by both houses - so by their own determination, or definition, the will of the people was not found. By their own definition it amounted to a shrug. This is undeniable as we know the threshold was not met. So to now not only pretend that it was and still is the people’s will, and to hide behind that because they’re too scared (or worse) to stick their neck out for the good of the people is deeply immoral. “Where do Labour votes stand on this? As, they are just as responsible for no deal as the Torys.” This isn’t true. I would have liked Labour to have not voted to trigger Article 50 back in 2016, however i understand why it was necessary for them to do so - the mainstream media would of painted Labour as anti-democratic which would have further empowered the Tories and their plans. It’s true though that it has been mostly argued from an economic perspective from both leavers and remainers. However the environment and at least people’s health have been raised. But there should be more emphasis on this and the loss of rights and protective regulations. GDP alone has never been the only factor which determines the quality of life for society. You can go to nations with much lower GDP than the UK and find a far higher quality of existence for the people. This should be mentioned far more than it is. Even in this forum people generally argue mostly on a economic basis. Look at Brazil. A country with incredible natural wealth, far beyond that of some of the world’s richest economies. Yet millions of their people live in terrible poverty. This is because their government, like many others around the world, has had unscrupulous leaders who have sold out to the US. They’ve allowed US corporations to create policy inside their country and take that natural wealth for their own, leaving the country and its people poor. ‘The Americanisation of Brazil’ as it was termed. This is essentially what’s happening to the UK right now. I know that the Labour leadership are aware of what is happening, but it is not as simple as saying so or only acting with that in mind. They must consider not only what is - but also what the MSM could portray it to be. This is why we must all fight for real regulation of the media. They add another level of complexity to any situation which really damages our democracy and often ties MPs hands or makes them take strange routes to get things done. " It's great to have more intelligence coming from Staffordshire | |||
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"A good portion of these so called mps need to go and go quickly. There is no other job I know of where you fail to do the job you are meant to do, keep the job and award yourself a pay rise. They should all hang their heads in shame " Here's the thing Who hasn't done their job ? Those wanting Brexit or the 50 percent who do not My maths tells me at least 45 percent are very much doing their job Now which 45 I have no idea I'm genuinely not sure who is to blame for this farcical impasse, but an impasse it is it is a mess and there will be few winners | |||
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"Time for a new direction and new honesty party ...where people represent the majority" No such thing as an honest political party as a good politition cannot be honest they would fail | |||
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"Time for a new direction and new honesty party ...where people represent the majorityNo such thing as an honest political party as a good politition cannot be honest they would fail" Unicorns perhaps? | |||
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"Creating new parties won’t help, it will just make things worse, as more votes will drift off to those parties without a cat in hells chance of winning. Pretty much why the Tories loved the creation of UKIP. It picked up straying Labour voters thereby weakening their strongest adversary. What we need to fight for - and this is something we can all agree on, is proper regulation of the mainstream media. And new laws introduced regarding ownership of it. " Disagree, we need more choice, at the moment two "selfish" parties who have screwed this country good and proper. We need more choice not less! | |||
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"Creating new parties won’t help, it will just make things worse, as more votes will drift off to those parties without a cat in hells chance of winning. Pretty much why the Tories loved the creation of UKIP. It picked up straying Labour voters thereby weakening their strongest adversary. What we need to fight for - and this is something we can all agree on, is proper regulation of the mainstream media. And new laws introduced regarding ownership of it. Disagree, we need more choice, at the moment two "selfish" parties who have screwed this country good and proper. We need more choice not less!" It won’t help unless we have proper regulation of our news media. Power corrupts absolutely. To offset this we must pass laws which bring the media and their owners to account. Also, I have to say it is the Tories, not Labour who have shit on us with their Brexit. Which brings me back to - Labour could and would have done things differently had we had real regulation of our mainstream media. This is the main area where our democracy is failing the people. | |||
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"Creating new parties won’t help, it will just make things worse, as more votes will drift off to those parties without a cat in hells chance of winning. Pretty much why the Tories loved the creation of UKIP. It picked up straying Labour voters thereby weakening their strongest adversary. What we need to fight for - and this is something we can all agree on, is proper regulation of the mainstream media. And new laws introduced regarding ownership of it. Disagree, we need more choice, at the moment two "selfish" parties who have screwed this country good and proper. We need more choice not less! It won’t help unless we have proper regulation of our news media. Power corrupts absolutely. To offset this we must pass laws which bring the media and their owners to account. Also, I have to say it is the Tories, not Labour who have shit on us with their Brexit. Which brings me back to - Labour could and would have done things differently had we had real regulation of our mainstream media. This is the main area where our democracy is failing the people. " Whilst I agree that our media, especially the print media, do not serve the country well, I'm really not sure I would want to see Government control of it. | |||
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"Creating new parties won’t help, it will just make things worse, as more votes will drift off to those parties without a cat in hells chance of winning. Pretty much why the Tories loved the creation of UKIP. It picked up straying Labour voters thereby weakening their strongest adversary. What we need to fight for - and this is something we can all agree on, is proper regulation of the mainstream media. And new laws introduced regarding ownership of it. Disagree, we need more choice, at the moment two "selfish" parties who have screwed this country good and proper. We need more choice not less! It won’t help unless we have proper regulation of our news media. Power corrupts absolutely. To offset this we must pass laws which bring the media and their owners to account. Also, I have to say it is the Tories, not Labour who have shit on us with their Brexit. Which brings me back to - Labour could and would have done things differently had we had real regulation of our mainstream media. This is the main area where our democracy is failing the people. Whilst I agree that our media, especially the print media, do not serve the country well, I'm really not sure I would want to see Government control of it. " Talking of media I've noticed the "led by donkeys" billboard campaign posters all overy my area this week.I counted dozens of billboards with tweets from politicians regarding brexit. I laughed hard at some of the tweets from Farage pasted onto giant billboards. The guys who crowd funded this are brilliantly funny and are getting the message out. | |||
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"Creating new parties won’t help, it will just make things worse, as more votes will drift off to those parties without a cat in hells chance of winning. Pretty much why the Tories loved the creation of UKIP. It picked up straying Labour voters thereby weakening their strongest adversary. What we need to fight for - and this is something we can all agree on, is proper regulation of the mainstream media. And new laws introduced regarding ownership of it. Disagree, we need more choice, at the moment two "selfish" parties who have screwed this country good and proper. We need more choice not less! It won’t help unless we have proper regulation of our news media. Power corrupts absolutely. To offset this we must pass laws which bring the media and their owners to account. Also, I have to say it is the Tories, not Labour who have shit on us with their Brexit. Which brings me back to - Labour could and would have done things differently had we had real regulation of our mainstream media. This is the main area where our democracy is failing the people. Whilst I agree that our media, especially the print media, do not serve the country well, I'm really not sure I would want to see Government control of it. " I wouldn’t want to see the government control, or appoint members to a media regulator either. That would have some obvious and very serious drawbacks. But I also am not happy to see a press code committee chaired by the likes of Paul Dacre, who was also editor of the Daily Mail during the same period. How was that ever supposed to work in the interests of society? What I can clearly see currently, is that the mainstream media are able to lie or distort reality without really any severe penalties. This is enabling them to do pretty much as they please. If The Sun for example, prints a headline which is simply bullshit - like the one mentioned above in this thread about Muslims, they then write a small texted apology some weeks later, buried near to the back pages - and at the moment that’s acceptable. But it clearly shouldn’t be. The front page must be the only place for such an apology, in the same sized text as was the lie - or misrepresentation of fact. The penalties need to be much higher and the body which regulates must be genuinely independent. How this could be achieved is another matter but the necessity for it is clear. It must also have power over all broadcast media in the UK including the internet, with powers to impose the same heavy penalties for internet based media owners. And on top of all this there must be new legislation on media ownership - specifically the proportion one person or corporation is allowed to possess. | |||
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"Creating new parties won’t help, it will just make things worse, as more votes will drift off to those parties without a cat in hells chance of winning. Pretty much why the Tories loved the creation of UKIP. It picked up straying Labour voters thereby weakening their strongest adversary. What we need to fight for - and this is something we can all agree on, is proper regulation of the mainstream media. And new laws introduced regarding ownership of it. Disagree, we need more choice, at the moment two "selfish" parties who have screwed this country good and proper. We need more choice not less! It won’t help unless we have proper regulation of our news media. Power corrupts absolutely. To offset this we must pass laws which bring the media and their owners to account. Also, I have to say it is the Tories, not Labour who have shit on us with their Brexit. Which brings me back to - Labour could and would have done things differently had we had real regulation of our mainstream media. This is the main area where our democracy is failing the people. Whilst I agree that our media, especially the print media, do not serve the country well, I'm really not sure I would want to see Government control of it. Talking of media I've noticed the "led by donkeys" billboard campaign posters all overy my area this week.I counted dozens of billboards with tweets from politicians regarding brexit. I laughed hard at some of the tweets from Farage pasted onto giant billboards. The guys who crowd funded this are brilliantly funny and are getting the message out."  | |||
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"Perfect example of MP's not wanting to lose their seats are the Tiggers or the newly formed Independent group. It's been funny as fuck watching them squirm over recent days in television interviews on the news channels as they try to reason for a 2nd referendum but when it's put to them that they should give their constituents a 2nd vote in by elections none of them want it because they know they'll lose their seats. They are pure self centred, self serving scum who are only looking to preserve their own interests. " . The TIG group of MPs want another referendum , one of their arguments being that people didn't know what they were voting for BUT they all stood at the last General Election as members of either Tory or Labour , so it's fair to say that their constituents are now unaware what they voted for at the last General Election,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Then we have those who don't want another referendum, because it would be undemocratic to have a 2nd vote , lead by the ERG who are a group of Tory MPs who tried to get rid of the Tory leader , even though their party had voted and elected a new leader after the referendum , apparently they didn't like that result so wanted another go ,,, then we come to their leader who , along with her party thinks we should respect the result of the 2016 referendum , BUT , because they don't like the result of the 1st meaningful vote in parliament had another one , then might have another one and might even have another one after that , | |||
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"Perfect example of MP's not wanting to lose their seats are the Tiggers or the newly formed Independent group. It's been funny as fuck watching them squirm over recent days in television interviews on the news channels as they try to reason for a 2nd referendum but when it's put to them that they should give their constituents a 2nd vote in by elections none of them want it because they know they'll lose their seats. They are pure self centred, self serving scum who are only looking to preserve their own interests. . The TIG group of MPs want another referendum , one of their arguments being that people didn't know what they were voting for BUT they all stood at the last General Election as members of either Tory or Labour , so it's fair to say that their constituents are now unaware what they voted for at the last General Election,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Then we have those who don't want another referendum, because it would be undemocratic to have a 2nd vote , lead by the ERG who are a group of Tory MPs who tried to get rid of the Tory leader , even though their party had voted and elected a new leader after the referendum , apparently they didn't like that result so wanted another go ,,, then we come to their leader who , along with her party thinks we should respect the result of the 2016 referendum , BUT , because they don't like the result of the 1st meaningful vote in parliament had another one , then might have another one and might even have another one after that , " But that's ok its leave! She is trying to bribe the DUP and I am sure there must be a tax haven somewhere that can be utilised! | |||
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