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"Odd favour that the deal will be rejected, Parliament will vote to seek an extension, Parliament will vote for no deal to be taken off the table, people will lose whatever faith was left in the process....." More chance of picking the lotto numbers,who knows | |||
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"Fast forward to the end of the week and where do you think we will be: - The May deal approved - Exit on March 29 with no agreement - A request to EU to stay beyond March 29 - A leadership election in the Conservative Party Are there any other options? Surely, the UK cannot delay making a decision any longer? The numbers suggest to me Mrs May will be asked to write to Brussels with a request to stay. " Delay upto 2 years or withdraw A50 and Brexit kicked down the proverbial road for another Government to sort out. | |||
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" - The May deal approved - Exit on March 29 with no agreement - A request to EU to stay beyond March 29 - A leadership election in the Conservative Party Are there any other options? " a/ I don't see May carrying on if her deal doesn't get through after 29th. The deal will be seen as a failure so will have to renegotiated from scratch. A new Tory leader will be elected, in which case the deal will never get voted through as it'll be a harder Brexit. b/ New Labour Leadership contest. c/ Greater cross party support for remain in the event of no deal. | |||
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"Fast forward to the end of the week and where do you think we will be: - The May deal approved - Exit on March 29 with no agreement - A request to EU to stay beyond March 29 - A leadership election in the Conservative Party Are there any other options? Surely, the UK cannot delay making a decision any longer? The numbers suggest to me Mrs May will be asked to write to Brussels with a request to stay. " may loses meaning vote 2.... the the interesting stuff starts.... if the government then try to whip mps against either the no deal vote (which they will lose) or the extensions of a50 (which they would likely lose) thats where you could see the mass government mp resignations.... i think you could see a few more independent groups members this week.... this is the week justine greening finally goes..... and one of two labour mps may finally split as well... | |||
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"Delay followed by a second referendum has been my prediction for months.. "The "May" deal or no deal.....? | |||
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"Fast forward to the end of the week and where do you think we will be: - The May deal approved - Exit on March 29 with no agreement - A request to EU to stay beyond March 29 - A leadership election in the Conservative Party Are there any other options? Surely, the UK cannot delay making a decision any longer? The numbers suggest to me Mrs May will be asked to write to Brussels with a request to stay. may loses meaning vote 2.... the the interesting stuff starts.... if the government then try to whip mps against either the no deal vote (which they will lose) or the extensions of a50 (which they would likely lose) thats where you could see the mass government mp resignations.... i think you could see a few more independent groups members this week.... this is the week justine greening finally goes..... and one of two labour mps may finally split as well..." Disintegration of the British Isles. Brexit is a stepping stone. | |||
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" a/ I don't see May carrying on if her deal doesn't get through after 29th. T " She has the skin of a rhino | |||
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"Fast forward to the end of the week and where do you think we will be: - The May deal approved - Exit on March 29 with no agreement - A request to EU to stay beyond March 29 - A leadership election in the Conservative Party Are there any other options? Surely, the UK cannot delay making a decision any longer? The numbers suggest to me Mrs May will be asked to write to Brussels with a request to stay. may loses meaning vote 2.... the the interesting stuff starts.... if the government then try to whip mps against either the no deal vote (which they will lose) or the extensions of a50 (which they would likely lose) thats where you could see the mass government mp resignations.... i think you could see a few more independent groups members this week.... this is the week justine greening finally goes..... and one of two labour mps may finally split as well... Disintegration of the British Isles. Brexit is a stepping stone. " Fire, Brimstone, Ice-caps Melt. (FBIM) | |||
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"Funny how when parliament vote down Mays deal its vine to have a second meaningful vote even tho parliament knew exactly what they were rejecting, but the idea that the country gets a second vote on brexit now that it knows what it is getting is undemocratic. Anyone smell tory hypocrisy at work?" The country doesn't know what it's getting at all. The deal is 580 pages of legal text, if you want to explain it, go ahead. Tip. Start with Section A. | |||
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"Funny how when parliament vote down Mays deal its vine to have a second meaningful vote even tho parliament knew exactly what they were rejecting, but the idea that the country gets a second vote on brexit now that it knows what it is getting is undemocratic. Anyone smell tory hypocrisy at work? The country doesn't know what it's getting at all. The deal is 580 pages of legal text, if you want to explain it, go ahead. Tip. Start with Section A. " There is a shortform explanatory document available if you search on .gov.uk, only about 40 pages. I suggest that everyone on the politics forum download and read it (or course excepting those of you who have poured through the whole text of the full document). All the points within the shortform do individually sound quite reasonable, until you compare against what we have as full members of the EU. Point by point, the deal costs us more and gives us less. Effectively, in order to maintain any type of foreign relations with both the EU countries and all other countries that we currently have access to via EU legislation, we will have to ongoing and indefinitely adhere to EU regulations, but totally lose any input into the content of those regulations. For example, look at the back panel of any electrical item manufactured in the UK. It has stickers indicating it has been designed and tested according to a whole bunch of EU standards. Without these certifications no foreign country will allow sale of our products (think "uncertified asian product causes death by electrocution/poisoning/sharp-pointy-bits", then reverse the countries concerned). If we leave with no deal we will not be allowed to give these certifications. If we leave with May's deal we will pay to be able to use the certification process, but lose our voice in the framing of these regulations and be at the mercy of any changes that the EU decides to make in the rules. Yes, we will be able to return to our pre EU membership system of British Specifications. Unfortunately there are literally thousands of individual documents, and every one takes years to negotiate and get accepted across the world. A few billion pounds and ten to twenty years might do it. Until then it won't be possible to sell something as simple as nuts and bolts - nobody wants to buy bolts that are not guaranteed to fit the nuts they bought from a different source! | |||
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"The May deal is likely to be vited down again. Jacob Rees-Mogg has quite rightly pointed out that our departure from the EU on 29th March is enshrined in law - both here and in the EU. It is unlikely that there is enough time remaining for an ammendment to the law to be made in time. The only way a Conservative leadership election is possible us if Theresa May resigns as the party can not attempt to remove her again until December The way the law stands, if there is no deal agreed with the EU by 29th March, we leave without one and this still appears to be the most likely scenario" Do you really think all the meetings & dinners have been discussing the deal that hasnt changed since november ? Of course they have already discussed what needs to be done to block brexit. Anybody thinking Rhys Mogg has any power over the tory party Needs to remember he.doesnt actually care about them over his money.. Mogg will make money either way from his hedge fund. Brexit or no brexit he will still coin it in. | |||
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"Fast forward to the end of the week and where do you think we will be: - The May deal approved - Exit on March 29 with no agreement - A request to EU to stay beyond March 29 - A leadership election in the Conservative Party Are there any other options? Surely, the UK cannot delay making a decision any longer? The numbers suggest to me Mrs May will be asked to write to Brussels with a request to stay. " Erm ? Yes revoke article 50 and remain I'm rather furious, that almost every commentary made refers to delay , no deal , a May's deal as options but they have stopped using remain Remain surely is currently the most sensible and plausible options , even the BBC flow chart does not list remain as an option Why are so many remainers tolerating this propaganda | |||
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"We are either going to be railroaded into a surrender of our independence and BREXIT cancelled. Or, we will capitulate to a customs union and a BREXIT in name only, UK politics is a sham, and our excuse for a democracy is corrupt from top to bottom." If MP's do their job and vote for May's Brexit then you'll get Brexit which is leaving the European Union. | |||
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"We are either going to be railroaded into a surrender of our independence and BREXIT cancelled. Or, we will capitulate to a customs union and a BREXIT in name only, UK politics is a sham, and our excuse for a democracy is corrupt from top to bottom. If MP's do their job and vote for May's Brexit then you'll get Brexit which is leaving the European Union. " Unfortunately May's brexit has the opposite effect of tying us in perpetuity to following European regulations that we no longer have any input into or veto upon. It is worse in every way than either a no deal brexit or a remain. It is a brexit that overnight turns us from being one of the big four powers in the organisation of Europe into being merely an island off the coast of Europe that is forced to do whatever we are told. Taking back sovereignty = losing international power. | |||
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"We are either going to be railroaded into a surrender of our independence and BREXIT cancelled. Or, we will capitulate to a customs union and a BREXIT in name only, UK politics is a sham, and our excuse for a democracy is corrupt from top to bottom. If MP's do their job and vote for May's Brexit then you'll get Brexit which is leaving the European Union. Unfortunately May's brexit has the opposite effect of tying us in perpetuity to following European regulations that we no longer have any input into or veto upon. It is worse in every way than either a no deal brexit or a remain. It is a brexit that overnight turns us from being one of the big four powers in the organisation of Europe into being merely an island off the coast of Europe that is forced to do whatever we are told. Taking back sovereignty = losing international power." People voted for a Brexit, it just said leave, May's Brexit is leaving  | |||
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"We are either going to be railroaded into a surrender of our independence and BREXIT cancelled. Or, we will capitulate to a customs union and a BREXIT in name only, UK politics is a sham, and our excuse for a democracy is corrupt from top to bottom. If MP's do their job and vote for May's Brexit then you'll get Brexit which is leaving the European Union. Unfortunately May's brexit has the opposite effect of tying us in perpetuity to following European regulations that we no longer have any input into or veto upon. It is worse in every way than either a no deal brexit or a remain. It is a brexit that overnight turns us from being one of the big four powers in the organisation of Europe into being merely an island off the coast of Europe that is forced to do whatever we are told. Taking back sovereignty = losing international power. People voted for a Brexit, it just said leave, May's Brexit is leaving "People were told that leave would mean more money, taking back sovereignty, reduced red tape, fewer foreigners on the street, giving back control to the people. In every way both May's brexit and no deal brexit are an utter betrayal of every single one of these points. All brexits being offered, all brexits that could be offered, fail to meet any of the promises from farage, bojo, and the other snake oil salesmen. | |||
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" People were told that leave would mean more money, taking back sovereignty, reduced red tape, fewer foreigners on the street, giving back control to the people. In every way both May's brexit and no deal brexit are an utter betrayal of every single one of these points. All brexits being offered, all brexits that could be offered, fail to meet any of the promises from farage, bojo, and the other snake oil salesmen." We'd leave the EU. Freedom of Movement would end so less pesky EU nationals. We'd not be paying for Single Market access. More money with no Single market fee's, as long as you ignore economics. Leave the current Customs union, new one though for backstop. Blue passports. It delivers on everything as I see it. | |||
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" People were told that leave would mean more money, taking back sovereignty, reduced red tape, fewer foreigners on the street, giving back control to the people. In every way both May's brexit and no deal brexit are an utter betrayal of every single one of these points. All brexits being offered, all brexits that could be offered, fail to meet any of the promises from farage, bojo, and the other snake oil salesmen. We'd leave the EU. Freedom of Movement would end so less pesky EU nationals. We'd not be paying for Single Market access. More money with no Single market fee's, as long as you ignore economics. Leave the current Customs union, new one though for backstop. Blue passports. It delivers on everything as I see it. " EU migration is at it's lowest 74,000 whereas the rest of the world is at its highest 260,000 ! All they are doing is swapping EU for the rest of the world so no reduction! | |||
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" People were told that leave would mean more money, taking back sovereignty, reduced red tape, fewer foreigners on the street, giving back control to the people. In every way both May's brexit and no deal brexit are an utter betrayal of every single one of these points. All brexits being offered, all brexits that could be offered, fail to meet any of the promises from farage, bojo, and the other snake oil salesmen. We'd leave the EU. Freedom of Movement would end so less pesky EU nationals. We'd not be paying for Single Market access. More money with no Single market fee's, as long as you ignore economics. Leave the current Customs union, new one though for backstop. Blue passports. It delivers on everything as I see it. EU migration is at it's lowest 74,000 whereas the rest of the world is at its highest 260,000 ! All they are doing is swapping EU for the rest of the world so no reduction!" Very true but what I'll admit is that getting to say yes or no to the rest of the world in immigration terms is better. | |||
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" People were told that leave would mean more money, taking back sovereignty, reduced red tape, fewer foreigners on the street, giving back control to the people. In every way both May's brexit and no deal brexit are an utter betrayal of every single one of these points. All brexits being offered, all brexits that could be offered, fail to meet any of the promises from farage, bojo, and the other snake oil salesmen. We'd leave the EU. Freedom of Movement would end so less pesky EU nationals. We'd not be paying for Single Market access. More money with no Single market fee's, as long as you ignore economics. Leave the current Customs union, new one though for backstop. Blue passports. It delivers on everything as I see it. EU migration is at it's lowest 74,000 whereas the rest of the world is at its highest 260,000 ! All they are doing is swapping EU for the rest of the world so no reduction! Very true but what I'll admit is that getting to say yes or no to the rest of the world in immigration terms is better. " Now we're getting down to it. It's all about getting rid of foreigners. Just a pity that when we try to fix up deals with other countries, when we plainly have zero bargaining cards, we are going to end up allowing more free movement from non-EU countries. Places such as all those ex-empire countries that are full of white skinned people with english as their mother tongue who proudly display the Union Flag in their homes and have a picture of the queen on their wall. India, South Africa, Malaysia, UAE, Caribbean, Pakistan... | |||
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"I'm going to take a punt and say that all three motions are binned. Mrs May's, because that is obvious. No Deal, because very few in the Commons want to be tarred as the MP who voted to inflict misery on the country. Extension, because very few in the Commons want to be tarred as the MP who stopped Brexit in its tracks. The whole thing is so toxic. " So will she go for meaningful vote No 3, resign as PM or will she claim that the 3 votes add up to a vote of no confidence and call a snap election? | |||
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"Theresa May has to get her deal through tomorrow or she will simply have to walk. If her deal does not go through tomorrow then the very great likelihood is that the vote against “no deal” will go through, as will the vote to extend A50. Esssntially everything she has said, done and tried to negotiate will be in the bin. How can she possibly then continue?" agree with you 100% but she is one stubborn bitch I can’t see her walking | |||
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"Who ever gave up power willingly? " I'll get back to you on that... (Maybe Edward VIII)... | |||
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"Who ever gave up power willingly? I'll get back to you on that... (Maybe Edward VIII)..." The last Pope..... | |||
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" The last Pope....." Great shout! | |||
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"The reverse, it's the remoaners that what a 2nd referendum, they lost. Unfortunately, the country voted out and 85% of politicians voted remain. Negotiations never really started early enough and that's why we are in the shit that we find ourselves in now. Even if we leave with no deal we are duty bound to keep a legal agreement to keep paying the EU for another two years. We pay apx 18 billion per year with a rebate of 4 billion. Just think what you can do with 14 billion quid. That's apx 250 mil per week." Once again this is an excellent example of why there should never have been a referendum in the first place. I know this is an extreme example of the kind of misunderstanding and narrow mindedness that’s out there. But there are plenty of people who believe this kind of rhubarb is the full picture. | |||
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"The reverse, it's the remoaners that what a 2nd referendum, they lost. Unfortunately, the country voted out and 85% of politicians voted remain. Negotiations never really started early enough and that's why we are in the shit that we find ourselves in now. Even if we leave with no deal we are duty bound to keep a legal agreement to keep paying the EU for another two years. We pay apx 18 billion per year with a rebate of 4 billion. Just think what you can do with 14 billion quid. That's apx 250 mil per week. Once again this is an excellent example of why there should never have been a referendum in the first place. I know this is an extreme example of the kind of misunderstanding and narrow mindedness that’s out there. But there are plenty of people who believe this kind of rhubarb is the full picture." Indeed, it's as if the UK gets nothing economically out of being a member of the Single Market, it's just money in and we get nothing for it  | |||
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"Theresa May has to get her deal through tomorrow or she will simply have to walk. If her deal does not go through tomorrow then the very great likelihood is that the vote against “no deal” will go through, as will the vote to extend A50. Esssntially everything she has said, done and tried to negotiate will be in the bin. How can she possibly then continue?" Her party cannot oust her, so she would have to be challenged and lose in another GE by the opposition. | |||
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"The reverse, it's the remoaners that what a 2nd referendum, they lost. Unfortunately, the country voted out and 85% of politicians voted remain. Negotiations never really started early enough and that's why we are in the shit that we find ourselves in now. Even if we leave with no deal we are duty bound to keep a legal agreement to keep paying the EU for another two years. We pay apx 18 billion per year with a rebate of 4 billion. Just think what you can do with 14 billion quid. That's apx 250 mil per week." Is that really it? The extent of your understanding as to what EU membership means? Accountant's logic. How much do you get paid back if you buy a car? | |||
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"We pay apx 18 billion per year with a rebate of 4 billion. Just think what you can do with 14 billion quid. That's apx 250 mil per week." How much revenue do you think the Treasury collects in return for the membership fee? From taxation on wages and profits on 44 per cent of the country's exports? | |||
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"The reverse, it's the remoaners that what a 2nd referendum, they lost. Unfortunately, the country voted out and 85% of politicians voted remain. Negotiations never really started early enough and that's why we are in the shit that we find ourselves in now. Even if we leave with no deal we are duty bound to keep a legal agreement to keep paying the EU for another two years. We pay apx 18 billion per year with a rebate of 4 billion. Just think what you can do with 14 billion quid. That's apx 250 mil per week." | |||
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"Just watched Theresa May's late night press conference in Strasbourg. She hasn't got the legally binging changes to the backstop that parliament asked for (an end date or a unilateral exit clause). It's pretty clear she has only managed to get further assurances. The ERG in the Conservative party may now tell Theresa May they will only vote for her deal if she agrees to resign and step down as Prime minister before June. Theresa May backed into a corner with no way out may have to accept this offer from the ERG so she may fall on her sword to get the deal through Parliament. Then a tory leadership contest will take place. The ERG want a Brexiteer as Prime minister for the next phase of negotiations, which would also come with a cabinet reshuffle. We also need a Brexiteer as Chancellor of the Exchequer in the Treasury. May and Hammond need to go as the price for the ERG's support on May's deal. " Is that a second vote on the same question Centaur? The referendum vote happened because of internal Conservative politics. It happened to keep the party together. Now the country is divided and soon the party will rip itself apart. #Brwxithypocricy | |||
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"Indeed, it's as if the UK gets nothing economically out of being a member of the Single Market, it's just money in and we get nothing for it "Except for all those regulatory bodies (like the UKAEA, CAA, DRA and all the others we were able to scrap when the single market was formed that we will now have to reinstitute and fund, wonder how much that will cost? Then there is free movement of goods services around Europe and because of regulatory alignment no customs checks or export/import duties, wonder how much extra it is going to cost to administer the border when we leave? Then there is access to the EU criminal database and common arrest warrants. Anyone think of anything else I missed... Yep, I am sure you are right, like Trumps wall that Mexico is going to pay for, we are going to save so much money that our brexit PM will be able to give everyone a windfall tax cut, end austerity (no she has done that already, she said so...) fund the NHS and buy everyone a 99. | |||
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