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David Lammy - right or wrong ?

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By *loswingers OP   Couple
over a year ago

Gloucester

So the black mp David Lammy has criticised Stacey Dooley for holding a Ugandan baby on her instagram feed . He says comic relief is , and has been guilty of perpetuating an old idea of colonialism in Africa . He feels she is portraying herself as a heroine and the child as a victim .

She says he is welcome to go over and do what she and others are doing , by raising awareness and money where it’s needed . The charity say they have asked him to do a film for them to promote it , but he hasn’t replied .

So , is he right to criticise or not ?

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe


"So the black mp David Lammy has criticised Stacey Dooley for holding a Ugandan baby on her instagram feed . He says comic relief is , and has been guilty of perpetuating an old idea of colonialism in Africa . He feels she is portraying herself as a heroine and the child as a victim .

She says he is welcome to go over and do what she and others are doing , by raising awareness and money where it’s needed . The charity say they have asked him to do a film for them to promote it , but he hasn’t replied .

So , is he right to criticise or not ?

"

Surely it's racist to raise bring attention to the colour of her skin too...? Why would her ethnicity be relevant?

Cal

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He can criticise if he wants.

The point is to raise money for people. If they don't need money why bother with Comic Relief etc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So the black mp David Lammy has criticised Stacey Dooley for holding a Ugandan baby on her instagram feed . He says comic relief is , and has been guilty of perpetuating an old idea of colonialism in Africa . He feels she is portraying herself as a heroine and the child as a victim .

She says he is welcome to go over and do what she and others are doing , by raising awareness and money where it’s needed . The charity say they have asked him to do a film for them to promote it , but he hasn’t replied .

So , is he right to criticise or not ?

"

I think that I'm not surprised that you're the one who's brought this up. I've seen the kind of opinions you rejoice in.

I used to love to listen to Hugh Maskela talk African race issues. I often thought that he was bang on the money and this is something along the lines of what I imagine he would have said. He was big loss when he left us last year was Masekela, in more ways than one.

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By *loswingers OP   Couple
over a year ago

Gloucester


"So the black mp David Lammy has criticised Stacey Dooley for holding a Ugandan baby on her instagram feed . He says comic relief is , and has been guilty of perpetuating an old idea of colonialism in Africa . He feels she is portraying herself as a heroine and the child as a victim .

She says he is welcome to go over and do what she and others are doing , by raising awareness and money where it’s needed . The charity say they have asked him to do a film for them to promote it , but he hasn’t replied .

So , is he right to criticise or not ?

Surely it's racist to raise bring attention to the colour of her skin too...? Why would her ethnicity be relevant?

Cal"

That’s exactly what she said .

She said is it because I’m white ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

'Masekele'

Sorry Hugh

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

David lammy is a first class idiot,to him everything a white person seems to do is racist...if anyone is racist it's him.....can't say or do fuck all these days without some idiot being offended.

It boils my piss how weak people are these days

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So the black mp David Lammy has criticised Stacey Dooley for holding a Ugandan baby on her instagram feed . He says comic relief is , and has been guilty of perpetuating an old idea of colonialism in Africa . He feels she is portraying herself as a heroine and the child as a victim .

She says he is welcome to go over and do what she and others are doing , by raising awareness and money where it’s needed . The charity say they have asked him to do a film for them to promote it , but he hasn’t replied .

So , is he right to criticise or not ?

I think that I'm not surprised that you're the one who's brought this up. I've seen the kind of opinions you rejoice in.

I used to love to listen to Hugh Maskela talk African race issues. I often thought that he was bang on the money and this is something along the lines of what I imagine he would have said. He was big loss when he left us last year was Masekela, in more ways than one."

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By *loswingers OP   Couple
over a year ago

Gloucester


"So the black mp David Lammy has criticised Stacey Dooley for holding a Ugandan baby on her instagram feed . He says comic relief is , and has been guilty of perpetuating an old idea of colonialism in Africa . He feels she is portraying herself as a heroine and the child as a victim .

She says he is welcome to go over and do what she and others are doing , by raising awareness and money where it’s needed . The charity say they have asked him to do a film for them to promote it , but he hasn’t replied .

So , is he right to criticise or not ?

I think that I'm not surprised that you're the one who's brought this up. I've seen the kind of opinions you rejoice in.

I used to love to listen to Hugh Maskela talk African race issues. I often thought that he was bang on the money and this is something along the lines of what I imagine he would have said. He was big loss when he left us last year was Masekela, in more ways than one."

Well I’m glad I brought it up then , I wouldn’t want to disappoint you . I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the opinions I rejoice in though .

So what was your answer again ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"David lammy is a first class idiot,to him everything a white person seems to do is racist...if anyone is racist it's him.....can't say or do fuck all these days without some idiot being offended.

It boils my piss how weak people are these days "

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By *crumdiddlyumptiousMan
over a year ago

.

If he is going to criticise anyone public it should be the governments of the countries where the children are,

A picture of a malnourished child is going to tug at the heartstrings whether or not a white, black or any other is in the same picture

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He's making a valid point. However he's wrong to target her - the people that need to be tackled are those running the charities and those designing their fundraising campaigns.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"He's making a valid point. However he's wrong to target her - the people that need to be tackled are those running the charities and those designing their fundraising campaigns."

I think he does actually say that it wasn't a personal attack on her specifically.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"He's making a valid point. However he's wrong to target her - the people that need to be tackled are those running the charities and those designing their fundraising campaigns."

I agree but I think he acknowledged it wasn't a personal attack on Stacey.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham


"He's making a valid point. However he's wrong to target her - the people that need to be tackled are those running the charities and those designing their fundraising campaigns."

Even though they say they have approached him to be involved but he didn't have the courtesy to reply

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

lol - yes 'this isn't personal' but then contacts her personally and references her personally.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"He's making a valid point. However he's wrong to target her - the people that need to be tackled are those running the charities and those designing their fundraising campaigns.

Even though they say they have approached him to be involved but he didn't have the courtesy to reply"

He's not likely to want to be involved if he's of the opinion they don't tackle the issues they're supposed to effectively.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham


"He's making a valid point. However he's wrong to target her - the people that need to be tackled are those running the charities and those designing their fundraising campaigns.

Even though they say they have approached him to be involved but he didn't have the courtesy to reply

He's not likely to want to be involved if he's of the opinion they don't tackle the issues they're supposed to effectively.

"

But that wasn't his complaint about miss dooley. His issue was that she is white.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"He's making a valid point. However he's wrong to target her - the people that need to be tackled are those running the charities and those designing their fundraising campaigns.

Even though they say they have approached him to be involved but he didn't have the courtesy to reply

He's not likely to want to be involved if he's of the opinion they don't tackle the issues they're supposed to effectively.

But that wasn't his complaint about miss dooley. His issue was that she is white. "

No that was just the headline comment - the broader points he's made were with regard to the efficacy of that particular aid model.

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By *orny PTMan
over a year ago

Peterborough

Has this np not seen a film called Hotel Rwanda? Sometimes black people do the wrong thing too, or has he stuck his head up his arse?

If I was starving, I wouldn't give a shot about Twitter and it's bird brained social commentary...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"He's making a valid point. However he's wrong to target her - the people that need to be tackled are those running the charities and those designing their fundraising campaigns.

Even though they say they have approached him to be involved but he didn't have the courtesy to reply

He's not likely to want to be involved if he's of the opinion they don't tackle the issues they're supposed to effectively.

But that wasn't his complaint about miss dooley. His issue was that she is white.

No that was just the headline comment - the broader points he's made were with regard to the efficacy of that particular aid model."

I think giving aid to perpetuate suffering is wrong.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There's a similar story about Ed Sheeran from 2017.

Not entirely sure what the issue is. Only black people can help black people?

Maybe they should add an ethnicity tick to donation forms so they can make sure the money goes to the right people.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"He's making a valid point. However he's wrong to target her - the people that need to be tackled are those running the charities and those designing their fundraising campaigns.

Even though they say they have approached him to be involved but he didn't have the courtesy to reply

He's not likely to want to be involved if he's of the opinion they don't tackle the issues they're supposed to effectively.

But that wasn't his complaint about miss dooley. His issue was that she is white.

No that was just the headline comment - the broader points he's made were with regard to the efficacy of that particular aid model.

I think giving aid to perpetuate suffering is wrong.

"

It's definitely legitimate to question what progress has been made after all these years using that model.

I think the other issue is to do with how the campaigns are designed to be almost a form of entertainment - using a well practised formula.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Does anyone know how many billions have been ploughed into Africa since Band Aid and has it actually made a significant difference to the general population of any or all countries in Africa?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"There's a similar story about Ed Sheeran from 2017.

Not entirely sure what the issue is. Only black people can help black people?

Maybe they should add an ethnicity tick to donation forms so they can make sure the money goes to the right people. "

The issues are whether the money is used effectively, and how informed are people over here about the realities of the circumstances in those countries that benefit from it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Does anyone know how many billions have been ploughed into Africa since Band Aid and has it actually made a significant difference to the general population of any or all countries in Africa?"

In the past fifty years, more than $1 trillion in development-related aid has been transferred from rich countries to Africa. Has this assistance improved the lives of Africans? No. In fact, across the continent, the recipients of this aid are not better off as a result of it, but worse—much worse.

Dambisa Moyo (Dead Aid )

Good read

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Does anyone know how many billions have been ploughed into Africa since Band Aid and has it actually made a significant difference to the general population of any or all countries in Africa?

In the past fifty years, more than $1 trillion in development-related aid has been transferred from rich countries to Africa. Has this assistance improved the lives of Africans? No. In fact, across the continent, the recipients of this aid are not better off as a result of it, but worse—much worse.

Dambisa Moyo (Dead Aid )

Good read "

That's a bit simplistic. Worse how?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"He's making a valid point. However he's wrong to target her - the people that need to be tackled are those running the charities and those designing their fundraising campaigns.

Even though they say they have approached him to be involved but he didn't have the courtesy to reply

He's not likely to want to be involved if he's of the opinion they don't tackle the issues they're supposed to effectively.

But that wasn't his complaint about miss dooley. His issue was that she is white.

No that was just the headline comment - the broader points he's made were with regard to the efficacy of that particular aid model.

I think giving aid to perpetuate suffering is wrong.

It's definitely legitimate to question what progress has been made after all these years using that model.

I think the other issue is to do with how the campaigns are designed to be almost a form of entertainment - using a well practised formula."

Fair points. Interesting.

He's doing a good job of getting it talked about. I don't know if he maybe phrased things wrongly or the media has taken his words out of context.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"He's making a valid point. However he's wrong to target her - the people that need to be tackled are those running the charities and those designing their fundraising campaigns.

Even though they say they have approached him to be involved but he didn't have the courtesy to reply

He's not likely to want to be involved if he's of the opinion they don't tackle the issues they're supposed to effectively.

But that wasn't his complaint about miss dooley. His issue was that she is white.

No that was just the headline comment - the broader points he's made were with regard to the efficacy of that particular aid model.

I think giving aid to perpetuate suffering is wrong.

It's definitely legitimate to question what progress has been made after all these years using that model.

I think the other issue is to do with how the campaigns are designed to be almost a form of entertainment - using a well practised formula."

My concern is we are helping to increase the population of already over populated countries who have low resources, health issues, low employment etc. Are we enabling them to add more suffering?

That's without the question of how much money actual gets to the people who need it.

Helping an area through a one off crisis is one thing; trying to save people so they go on to bring more people into poverty and suffering is another.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No I think he phrased it badly. Very badly. But yes it needs discussing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How are we helping to increase the populations?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Does anyone know how many billions have been ploughed into Africa since Band Aid and has it actually made a significant difference to the general population of any or all countries in Africa?

In the past fifty years, more than $1 trillion in development-related aid has been transferred from rich countries to Africa. Has this assistance improved the lives of Africans? No. In fact, across the continent, the recipients of this aid are not better off as a result of it, but worse—much worse.

Dambisa Moyo (Dead Aid )

Good read

That's a bit simplistic. Worse how?"

Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day teach him how to fish he'll never go hungry.

Africans don't need hand outs they need jobs.

China doesn't do aid but it does jobs in Africa in exchange for resources.We send clothes and food which undermines the local economy.Its counterintuitive that aid can do harm to a country but it can .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Does anyone know how many billions have been ploughed into Africa since Band Aid and has it actually made a significant difference to the general population of any or all countries in Africa?

In the past fifty years, more than $1 trillion in development-related aid has been transferred from rich countries to Africa. Has this assistance improved the lives of Africans? No. In fact, across the continent, the recipients of this aid are not better off as a result of it, but worse—much worse.

Dambisa Moyo (Dead Aid )

Good read

That's a bit simplistic. Worse how?

Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day teach him how to fish he'll never go hungry.

Africans don't need hand outs they need jobs.

China doesn't do aid but it does jobs in Africa in exchange for resources.We send clothes and food which undermines the local economy.Its counterintuitive that aid can do harm to a country but it can ."

lol China has been massively exploiting African countries for years.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Does anyone know how many billions have been ploughed into Africa since Band Aid and has it actually made a significant difference to the general population of any or all countries in Africa?

In the past fifty years, more than $1 trillion in development-related aid has been transferred from rich countries to Africa. Has this assistance improved the lives of Africans? No. In fact, across the continent, the recipients of this aid are not better off as a result of it, but worse—much worse.

Dambisa Moyo (Dead Aid )

Good read

That's a bit simplistic. Worse how?

Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day teach him how to fish he'll never go hungry.

Africans don't need hand outs they need jobs.

China doesn't do aid but it does jobs in Africa in exchange for resources.We send clothes and food which undermines the local economy.Its counterintuitive that aid can do harm to a country but it can .

lol China has been massively exploiting African countries for years."

Yes and building bridges roads factories power plants and providing jobs.

They don't want to be taking handouts they want to have jobs and be entrepreneurs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They have added some infrastructure but mostly to better able their own profits and agenda (much like the former European colonies).

Many Africans have already profited from 'enterprise'. Some legitimately.

Some by way of manipulating politics to their advantage. Rather like we see here.

Plenty of UK charities support legitimate enterprise and education including some Comic Relief projects.

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

David Lammy is a racist cunt

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"

A picture of a malnourished child is going to tug at the heartstrings whether or not a white, black or any other is in the same picture "

Plenty of people who appear not to give a shit about children in this country being fed from food banks, be they black, brown or white.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"How are we helping to increase the populations?"

By not allowing people to die disease and hunger, because they have bad sanitation and limited resources.

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By *ik MMan
over a year ago

Lancashire

What Lammy started with was ‘the world does not need anymore white savours’. If he had said celebrity instead of white I could have accepted his point. As it is the comment is nothing but racist.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Didn't Lenny Henry a co founder of Comic Relief?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"How are we helping to increase the populations?

By not allowing people to die disease and hunger, because they have bad sanitation and limited resources.

"

So we should allow children to die from poverty rather than support them to enjoy the same level of development as us?

Besides that being a vile world view it's also flawed given that as countries develop their populations shrink. Has Rosling has a good video on how that works.

Societies with high infant mortality rates also have high birth rates. It was the same in this country once upon a time.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Born wrong I think.

Silver fix love!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Born wrong I think.

Silver fix love! "

Fix????

Oh I give up.....

Fox*

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By *alking HeadMan
over a year ago

Bolton


"He's making a valid point. However he's wrong to target her - the people that need to be tackled are those running the charities and those designing their fundraising campaigns.

Even though they say they have approached him to be involved but he didn't have the courtesy to reply

He's not likely to want to be involved if he's of the opinion they don't tackle the issues they're supposed to effectively.

But that wasn't his complaint about miss dooley. His issue was that she is white.

No that was just the headline comment - the broader points he's made were with regard to the efficacy of that particular aid model.

I think giving aid to perpetuate suffering is wrong.

It's definitely legitimate to question what progress has been made after all these years using that model.

I think the other issue is to do with how the campaigns are designed to be almost a form of entertainment - using a well practised formula."

As this money is given freely by people performing in charity events such as comic relief and live aid, you can't question this particular aid model. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth as they say. Foreign aid via our various governments and how thats used, well that's a different story.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"That's without the question of how much money actual gets to the people who need it."

For example (year ending March 2018)

Oxfam:

Spending on charitable activites £337M (77%)

Spending on running the charity £102M (33%)

British Heart Foundation:

Spending on charitable activites £130M (39%)

Spending on running the charity £199M (61%)

.

And there is no benefit to actually fixing the problems they are supposed to be helping with otherwise they will then be out of a job. Charities = gravy train for too many people.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 28/02/19 21:56:24]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"He's making a valid point. However he's wrong to target her - the people that need to be tackled are those running the charities and those designing their fundraising campaigns.

Even though they say they have approached him to be involved but he didn't have the courtesy to reply

He's not likely to want to be involved if he's of the opinion they don't tackle the issues they're supposed to effectively.

But that wasn't his complaint about miss dooley. His issue was that she is white.

No that was just the headline comment - the broader points he's made were with regard to the efficacy of that particular aid model.

I think giving aid to perpetuate suffering is wrong.

It's definitely legitimate to question what progress has been made after all these years using that model.

I think the other issue is to do with how the campaigns are designed to be almost a form of entertainment - using a well practised formula.

As this money is given freely by people performing in charity events such as comic relief and live aid, you can't question this particular aid model. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth as they say. Foreign aid via our various governments and how thats used, well that's a different story."

I can and I am, as are others.

Just because it's 'charity' doesn't make it beyond question.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"He's making a valid point. However he's wrong to target her - the people that need to be tackled are those running the charities and those designing their fundraising campaigns.

Even though they say they have approached him to be involved but he didn't have the courtesy to reply

He's not likely to want to be involved if he's of the opinion they don't tackle the issues they're supposed to effectively.

But that wasn't his complaint about miss dooley. His issue was that she is white. "

I think it was also to do with the way the pictures were taken. Stacey D is very talented at bringing people's stories to life. Perhaps this picture gave the wrong impression and was more focussed on her. I think David Lammy has a point but might have put it differently.

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By *ancastermanMan
over a year ago

carnforth

There's a strong patronising element to a lot of high profile celebrity charity work. The poor black people need rescuing trope is at best misrepresentation of the bigger picture.

All we are shown of Africa is poverty and disaster, never its rich and diverse culture and society. Never the projects to help itself.

During the Ebola outbreak a few years ago there were too charity records. One got a lot of TV and press attention, a reissue of Band Aid. The other, by African musicians, had lyrics advising how to avoid spreading the disease in Igbo, Fula, Bambara etc. It got zero western attention and support. The money raised by Geldof trickled through months later. The advice spread by the African record had immediate impact. I prefer the latter and I think this is part of David Lammy's point.

By all means, give, but talk to Africans about what they think will help, involve them and show their agency.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I don't know the full details but she generally is right to pursue things as she does, so I'm assuming that she is doing things for the right reasons .

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