FabSwingers.com forum: .... and here comes the 1st split

By *abio OP Man
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Looks like the more centrist labour pro European mps are going to walk away from corbyns party....

So this question is for the lefties.... we know who the righties are in here so I kindly ask you not to contribute

Would you be tempted to vote for a more centre left party than corbyns labour?

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Maybe, it depends what the choices look like in, say, 12 months from now.

But I am sure there is an opportunity for a complete realignment of the centre and and its rebranding.

What will the Lib Dems do?

Will they be squeezed out or squeezed in?

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

No, I will stick with JC and Labour and watch this lot go the way of the 'gang o four', and good riddance to them.

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

"Looks like the more centrist labour pro European mps are going to walk away from corbyns party....

From what I have read, reason for leaving have had a great deal to with handling issues of antisemitism. To frame the move as offering a more pro EU option is giving only half the story.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’ve only ever voted Labour in marginal constituencies to keep the Tories out. They’re not may party.

I wouldn’t be intersted in a party with Gavin Shuker as a prominent member.

In my opinion we don’t need a new centerist party. We need a party that puts people and the environment before big business and the ultra rich. Trickle down economics don’t work.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

I sympathise with their frustration. I'm just very wary of their being 3 left/centrist parties splitting the left vote vs one right wing party. This could keep the Tories in power.

So I probably wouldn't vote for a new centrist party unless there were tactical reasons to do so.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If they can match the greens on environmental policies.Yes.

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By *lik and PaulCouple
over a year ago

cahoots

I'm very much a floating voter but could never vote Labour with JC running the agenda...would have to see what a new party would look like but there's definitely room for a common sense party or one which promoted consensus politics...not sure how that would work in reality though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you got elected on the values of a party you no longer believe in, fucking well stand down and let voters decide.

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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"I'm very much a floating voter but could never vote Labour with JC running the agenda...would have to see what a new party would look like but there's definitely room for a common sense party or one which promoted consensus politics...not sure how that would work in reality though."

This is very much where I am at... corbyns leadership on the biggest issues and the cultists have very much driven me away from this Labour Party... I’d have more respect for him if he just came out and said he was a strong leaver rather than fudge the way he has dealt with brexit.. it is woefully bad... and his leadership on anti Semitic issues has been horrible

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've been in the Labour party since I was 14 (we had the young socialist party then for under 18's).

Up to the last election I was very active . Working at every election, out on the doorstep and there is no constituency I haven't campaigned in in North Wales.

In the last few years the party has changed , many joined from momentum . They have been abusive to older members and I no longer attend meetings .

In my local party any one who has a differing opinion than the local hard left is shouted down.

I can understand why these MP's have made the tough decision to leave .

As for myself I'm staying in for now

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By *wosmilersCouple
over a year ago

Heathrowish

Each General Election is not decided by 40 odd million on the electoral roll.

It is decided by a relative few who are non aligned in marginal seats. Those that are committed to support one party or another will not be shifted.

This is less likely to encourage people in the non aligned category to vote for Labour.

It may well, unfortunately, ensure another term for the Tories, in the same way that the creation of the SDP (along with the Falklands campaign) ensured Thatcher retained her premiership.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

Chuka Umunna says that the current parties are part of the problem, not the solution. “It is time we dumped this country’s old fashioned politics,” he says. The UK needs a political party “fit for the here and now” and the “first step in leaving the tribal politics behind”.

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By *wosmilersCouple
over a year ago

Heathrowish

"Chuka Umunna says that the current parties are part of the problem, not the solution. “It is time we dumped this country’s old fashioned politics,” he says. The UK needs a political party “fit for the here and now” and the “first step in leaving the tribal politics behind”."

It does sound very much like the break by the Gang of Four in the early 1980's.

Corbyn's response to this will be interesting and show whether he can lead.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

Hahahahahahahahahahaaaaa!

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

It's all part of the Brexit madness.

The Tories are falling apart.

UKIP is lurching to the far right.

The Lib Dems are invisible.

Labour is falling to pieces.

Parliament is falling to pieces.

Government is drifting blindly.

Business is failing.

And we haven't even left the EU yet!

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By *wosmilersCouple
over a year ago

Heathrowish

"It's all part of the Brexit madness.

The Tories are falling apart.

UKIP is lurching to the far right.

The Lib Dems are invisible.

Labour is falling to pieces.

Parliament is falling to pieces.

Government is drifting blindly.

Business is failing.

And we haven't even left the EU yet!

And you forgot to mention the worst of all scenarios, Liverpool may win the title.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

Labour youth movement... "Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer, we’ll keep the red flag flying here."

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"....

And you forgot to mention the worst of all scenarios, Liverpool may win the title."

Nah... They will bottle it

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

Certainly don't need to hear words like institutionally racist being put out.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Right now, could you bring yourself to vote for any of them?

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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Hahahahahahahahahahaaaaa!

I wouldn’t laugh quite yet, I bet the centre right split is coming if not this week, but next.... either the centrist pro eu Tories will go.... or the ERG, depending on which way may lurches

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By *haremoreMan
over a year ago

Manchester

There are many good Labour people left who are not extreme.Kinnock saw off off the far left. Extremes in any walk of life will cause friction and mayhem.Sadly Labour are assisting the Tory's in staying in power.

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By *rotic-TouchTV/TS
over a year ago

doncaster

"It's all part of the Brexit madness.

The Tories are falling apart.

UKIP is lurching to the far right.

The Lib Dems are invisible.

Labour is falling to pieces.

Parliament is falling to pieces.

Government is drifting blindly.

Business is failing.

And we haven't even left the EU yet!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There are many good Labour people left who are not extreme.Kinnock saw off off the far left. Extremes in any walk of life will cause friction and mayhem.Sadly Labour are assisting the Tory's in staying in power."

That Corbyn is “extreme” or “far left” is a fallacy. A lot of his policies were pre-thatcher era tory policies.

I’m not a big fan of his, but not in my lifetime have I seen as much bullshit made up about a politician.

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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

I’ll absolutely defend corbyn is someone put up something that I feel is untrue for balance... but at the moment there’s no way I could vote for a corbyn led party, and I think their are probably a lot of disaffected labour support that feels the same way

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That Corbyn is “extreme” or “far left” is a fallacy. A lot of his policies were pre-thatcher era tory policies.

I’m not a big fan of his, but not in my lifetime have I seen as much bullshit made up about a politician. "

I agree it says volumes about the right and nothing about the left.

It's one of the reasons I will consider voting labour.They just need to come out with some green policies I can relate to..

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By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

"I’ll absolutely defend corbyn is someone put up something that I feel is untrue for balance... but at the moment there’s no way I could vote for a corbyn led party, and I think their are probably a lot of disaffected labour support that feels the same way "
I’m same as Fabio I can’t vote labour again under Corbyn

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

When life long labour supporters are leaving because they are getting abuse from the far left who they say have taken over the party im inclined to believe them.

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

I couldn’t vote for JC.

I could get behind Chuka and Ann Coffey.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

Values - As per the new Independent Group of MP's

Ours is a great country of which people are rightly proud, where the first duty of government must be to defend its people and do whatever it takes to safeguard Britain’s national security.

Britain works best as a diverse, mixed social market economy, in which well-regulated private enterprise can reward aspiration and drive economic progress and where government has the responsibility to ensure the sound stewardship of taxpayer’s money and a stable, fair and balanced economy.

A strong economy means we can invest in our public services. We believe the collective provision of public services and the NHS can be delivered through government action, improving health and educational life chances, protecting the public, safeguarding the vulnerable, ensuring dignity at every stage of life and placing individuals at the heart of decision-making.

The people of this country have the ability to create fairer, more prosperous communities for present and future generations. We believe that this creativity is best realised in a society which fosters individual freedom and supports all families.

The barriers of poverty, prejudice and discrimination facing individuals should be removed and advancement occur on the basis of merit, with inequalities reduced through the extension of opportunity, giving individuals the skills and means to open new doors and fulfil their ambitions.

Individuals are capable of taking responsibility if opportunities are offered to them, everybody can and should make a contribution to society and that contribution should be recognised. Paid work should be secure and pay should be fair.

Our free media, the rule of law, and our open, tolerant and respectful democratic society should be cherished and renewed.

We believe that our parliamentary democracy in which our elected representatives deliberate, decide and provide leadership, held accountable by their whole electorate is the best system of representing the views of the British people.

In order to face the challenges and opportunities presented by globalisation, migration and technological advances, we believe the multilateral, international rules-based order must be strengthened and reformed. We believe in maintaining strong alliances with our closest European and international allies on trade, regulation, defence, security and counter-terrorism.

As part of the global community, we have a responsibility to future generations to protect our environment, safeguard the planet, plan development sustainably and to act on the urgency of climate change.

Power should be devolved to the most appropriate level, trusting and involving local communities. More powers and representation should be given to local government to act in the best interests of their communities.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Can we expect by elections now for the MPs who no longer are labour MPs.

It would seem the democratic thing to do for their constituents.

It's all very entertaining.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Can we expect by elections now for the MPs who no longer are labour MPs.

It would seem the democratic thing to do for their constituents.

It's all very entertaining.

Well when Douglas Carswell and Mark Reckless left the Conservative party to join ukip, they stood down as Conservative MP's and fought by elections for their seats as Ukip candidates (which they both won). Let's see if these Labour MP's have the balls to do the same, the honourable thing for them to do now would be to go to by elections in their Constituencies.

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By *wosmilersCouple
over a year ago

Heathrowish

"Can we expect by elections now for the MPs who no longer are labour MPs.

It would seem the democratic thing to do for their constituents.

It's all very entertaining.

While I think they should resign as MPs, I also thing they should wait until after 29th March as the political sideshow is not what is needed right now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Can we expect by elections now for the MPs who no longer are labour MPs.

It would seem the democratic thing to do for their constituents.

It's all very entertaining.

While I think they should resign as MPs, I also thing they should wait until after 29th March as the political sideshow is not what is needed right now."

I think there is no time like the present.

They should stand for what they believe in and strike while the iron is hot.It will be to their advantage to move quickly.I feel the will lose momentum giving labour the opportunity to prepare and undermine them over the next months.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"Can we expect by elections now for the MPs who no longer are labour MPs.

It would seem the democratic thing to do for their constituents.

It's all very entertaining.

Labour were already 2 MPs down, with Sheffield's Jared O Mara leaving to be an Independent and Peterborough's Fiona Onasaanya being booted out of the party after her recent conviction

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Can we expect by elections now for the MPs who no longer are labour MPs.

It would seem the democratic thing to do for their constituents.

It's all very entertaining.

Labour were already 2 MPs , with Sheffield's Jared O Mara leaving to be an Independent and Peterborough's Fiona Onasaanya being booted out of the party after her recent conviction

Labour also lost another MP last night as veteran Paul Flynn passed away. His death will now trigger a by election in his constituency.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

This is at least an honest position.

They don't feel that they can support the party position which has been fudged beyond what was agreed at conference.

Corbyn is no less a slippery politician than anyone else.

There is always an open question about if they should call a by-election, but the law is what the law is on this. They want to wield their considerable power in a hung parliament.

The ERG should do the same if they are honest, but they world more power destabilising within the Conservative party.

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

Great statement from Tom Watson but it's incredible when the deputy leader of the Labour Party says there are times he doesn't recognise the party these days.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

2 things...

Not picking on you Fabio, but you are generally one of the most thoughtful posters here, and you say you cant support JC, can you tell me why? Can you name a single one of his and Labour's policies you disagree with? Can you name a single issue where he is or has been on the wrong side of the debate?

Secondly, while so many are rushing to support these 7 has anyone actually looked at their voting history on the really controversial issues of the last 8/9 years? Or have any of you noticed that not 1 of them is resigning their parliamentary seats and standing for reelection? So to be clear while they claim to be resigning from the Labour party for reasons of principle and integrity, their voting record tells a different story and they have less integrity than the Tory MP's who joined UKIP.

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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"2 things...

sure... i think he actually does want brexit, which is why he is fudging from the top.... also he was wrong on the skriple affair basically believing the russians... his comments on venezuela leave me worried as well...

then there is the stuff he did but only grudgingly.... there was a welfare bill the other week where labour were going to abstain, and when the snp and some more vocal labour mps said we are going to vote against, it was only under pressure that they finally changed position.....

i do worry about some of the people at the top, only tom watson really feels me with confidence..... some of the others feel me with dread

i am surprised to be honest it was only 7.... i think i could name a dozen labour mps that could join this group... john mann, john woodcock, ian murray, owen smith and liz kendall off the top of my head....

it will be interesting if they could peel off the more moderate tories like sarah wooleston and heidi allen for example... if they can do that then the new faction may get really really interesting

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By *inkyBoroCoupleCouple
over a year ago

Middlesbrough

"I’ll absolutely defend corbyn is someone put up something that I feel is untrue for balance... but at the moment there’s no way I could vote for a corbyn led party, and I think their are probably a lot of disaffected labour support that feels the same way I’m same as Fabio I can’t vote labour again under Corbyn "

This

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By *estivalMan
over a year ago

borehamwood

"Hahahahahahahahahahaaaaa!

I wouldn’t laugh quite yet, I bet the centre right split is coming if not this week, but next.... either the centrist pro eu Tories will go.... or the ERG, depending on which way may lurches "

i wouldnt bank on that the tories being tories will take one look at whats happening to labour and think oooo we got another five years in power

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

In general, regardless of the individuals or party involved I'm all for more independent MPs.

It will force debate and compromise and reduce the power of whips to bribe and threaten creating results based on party loyalty rather than what's best for the country.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"Can we expect by elections now for the MPs who no longer are labour MPs.

It would seem the democratic thing to do for their constituents.

It's all very entertaining.

Labour were already 2 MPs , with Sheffield's Jared O Mara leaving to be an Independent and Peterborough's Fiona Onasaanya being booted out of the party after her recent conviction

Labour also lost another MP last night as veteran Paul Flynn passed away. His death will now trigger a by election in his constituency. "
i wouldnt be suprised if we see another couple leave in the next few days 7 first for effect then another couple following as a plan to try to gain momentum for more to follow.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"sure... i think he actually does want brexit, which is why he is fudging from the top...."

Really? I have listened to what he has said over years and what he said during the referendum. His position has been constant. He does not like how friendly the EU is to multinationals and because of the pro big business policies written into EU treaties he has voted against them. But he has always said that on balance the UK is better inside the EU than outside it providing we are fully engaged and driving change to make the institution more equitible.

" also he was wrong on the skriple affair basically believing the russians... his comments on venezuela leave me worried as well..."

So in your mind saying that we should not accuse Russia without proof, but wait until the police complete their investigation before making statements that accusing an already hostile country of committing an act of war is the same as supporting that country? I truly am a war-dog inside, but I want my political masters to be very reluctant to even bring me and my ilk out to show our teeth , forget letting us have the run of a long leash forget letting us off the lead completely. The problem with jingoistic politics is they involve the overuse of my type and that never ends well. JC seems to me to be the only leader not looking for any excuse to send in the troops. But hey, what do I know.

And exactly what did he say about Venezuela that offended you so much? How has US inspired regime change worked out in the rest of the world? Would you like to name a success story for me?

"then there is the stuff he did but only grudgingly...."

Grudgingly? Do you mean he is nuanced, measured, does not rush his choices and listens to others?

" there was a welfare bill the other week where labour were going to abstain, and when the snp and some more vocal labour mps said we are going to vote against, it was only under pressure that they finally changed position....."

See above, he only picks fights he has a chance of winning. That sounds like the actions of a very clever man to me.

"i do worry about some of the people at the top, only tom watson really feels me with confidence..... some of the others feel me with dread"

Ah yes, so when you have a choice of the clusterfuck that is in power right now with the likes of BoJo and JRM fucking things up behind the scenes because they will make a killing in the ensuing mayhem, you would rather by default support their agenda than have a chance of having a democratic socialist government because you are not sure you can trust some of them.

"i am surprised to be honest it was only 7.... i think i could name a dozen labour mps that could join this group... john mann, john woodcock, ian murray, owen smith and liz kendall off the top of my head...."

With you there, there are many more Tories in disguise on the Labour benches. But I guess they are being held in reserve to mount another attack when this one fails.

"it will be interesting if they could peel off the more moderate tories like sarah wooleston and heidi allen for example... if they can do that then the new faction may get really really interesting"

That is not going to happen. However we may get LibDems Mk2 come the next election offering a 'third way' to split the anti Tory vote and help the Tories remain in power for another 5 years.

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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

With you there, there are many more Tories in disguise on the Labour benches. But I guess they are being held in reserve to mount another attack when this one fails.

i respect what you normally say will.... but i think that this little bit says it all...

I would like to think of the left as a "broad church" of opinions..(phrase i have heard a shed load today)... but calling moderates "red tories" sums up everything that is wrong at the moment! there is no room for discussion if you don't blindly follow the leader..... this party has moved so far left that the moderates don't feel like they have a home.... i think some of the bile and virtol i have seen today makes me think this 7 did the right thing, because it shone a light on the attacks.... and the attackers don't realise it!

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"No, I will stick with JC and Labour and watch this lot go the way of the 'gang o four', and good riddance to them."
Yes and look what happened to the leftist labour party then,the tories won and stayed in for 18 years

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"Great statement from Tom Watson but it's incredible when the deputy leader of the Labour Party says there are times he doesn't recognise the party these days."
The labour party is now a hard left party that does not believe in democracy.

They have no place in the British political system as far as I am concerned.

Nobody knows what will happen next as the face of British politics is changing due the non democratic practices of MP's.

This breakaway group will no doubt never run the country but could be as influencial as UKIP in many ways.

As a brexiteer I could not support them as they are remainers and therefore traitors but after the EU has gone into history they maybe important if they can find the right middle of the road policies

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"2 things...

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"2 things...

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

I think Watson will also go, he's just delaying for effect.

They clearly think their gamble is going to pay off, but I'm really not sure. There already is a party that holds their political position and that is the Lib Dems, and they don't poll very well these days.

I think centrism is dead.

What is very interesting is that they aren't a political party, they are a business, which means they don't have to reveal who their financial backers are. I'm not sure that the legaility of that won't be challenged.

They could quite easily end up splitting the Tory vote instead of the Labour vote (lots of Tory voters types who are disillusioned with the current Tory infighting seem to like them), which would then end up giving Labour a significant majority at the next election.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

With you there, there are many more Tories in disguise on the Labour benches. But I guess they are being held in reserve to mount another attack when this one fails.

i respect what you normally say will.... but i think that this little bit says it all...

They are Red Tories because they would rather have a Tory government than a Labour government under a socialist leadership.

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By *igsteve43Man
over a year ago

derby

"I think Watson will also go, he's just delaying for effect.

I think centrism is dead.

Problem being the people who swing elections ie those of us in the middle will not entertain voting labour while jc is in charge

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"Great statement from Tom Watson but it's incredible when the deputy leader of the Labour Party says there are times he doesn't recognise the party these days.The labour party is now a hard left party that does not believe in democracy.

They have no place in the British political system as far as I am concerned.

Nobody knows what will happen next as the face of British politics is changing due the non democratic practices of MP's.

This breakaway group will no doubt never run the country but could be as influencial as UKIP in many ways.

As a brexiteer I could not support them as they are remainers and therefore traitors but after the EU has gone into history they maybe important if they can find the right middle of the road policies"

Remainders are traitors?

Really?

48% of the population are traitors? Every other person you speak to.

Wow.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hopefully this is the beginning of the end of two party politics.

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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

this a where its gets interesting... according to "politico's"... there are another dozen labour mp...a couple of lib dems and a dozen tories... including one cabinet minister... who are thinking of making the jump....

if this "movement" gets to say.... 20-25.... then it becomes an issue on all sides...

so.... shall we start guessing names... because i reckon i could also name half a dozen tories who could "jump"........

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"I think Watson will also go, he's just delaying for effect.

I think centrism is dead.

Problem being the people who swing elections ie those of us in the middle will not entertain voting labour while jc is in charge"

Those people are ageing. The "centre ground" is a tiny percentage of the electorate. There are far greater political gains to be made if you can engage non voters (ie a significant proportion of the under 40s).

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"i respect what you normally say will.... but i think that this little bit says it all...

Again I say look at voting records on contentious issues like universal credit and the rules that initiated Mrs May's 'hostile environment' that led to the Windrush scandal. I like JC because he is willing to listen to and be guided by views that he does not share. There is a reason that every story you hear about him is a scare story (that is proven in time to be false). The billionaires and multimillionaires that run the media and finance the tories are scared that after 40 years of r@ping our country they is a serious possibility that they may finally be held to account for their corruption and corruption of our politics.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think Watson will also go, he's just delaying for effect.

I think centrism is dead.

Problem being the people who swing elections ie those of us in the middle will not entertain voting labour while jc is in charge

I agree the centre ground is a waste land haunted by the ghosts of liberal democrats.The future is popularism by that extreme leftist or extreme rightists.

A battle royal of ideological left and right is coming.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"I think Watson will also go, he's just delaying for effect.

I think centrism is dead.

Problem being the people who swing elections ie those of us in the middle will not entertain voting labour while jc is in charge

I agree the centre ground is a waste land haunted by the ghosts of liberal democrats.The future is popularism by that extreme leftist or extreme rightists.

A battle royal of ideological left and right is coming.

Blame the increasing gap between rich and poor.

When people have nothing, they vote for change.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

The labour party aren't particularly left wing, they've become centre left, whilst the conservatives have moved to a more extreme right position - especially as they continue to be led by the Rees Mogg faction. I'm naturally left biased but not fixated to one party.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"The labour party aren't particularly left wing, they've become centre left, whilst the conservatives have moved to a more extreme right position - especially as they continue to be led by the Rees Mogg faction. I'm naturally left biased but not fixated to one party. "

How right you are. We now live in a country where Conservative government policies of the 70's are further to the left than anything JC and Labour are proposing but many believe that todays Labour party are communists in all but name.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A more centerist SDP like party would get support from moderate Labour voters. Unfortunately for them, all it will do is split the votes. Every vote the new party win, will be one less for Labour. The LibDems would almost certainly be thoroughly embarrassed in a general election featuring two labour parties, and would no doubt be looking to form some kind of coalition with the new group.

History repeating itself yet again, but it was predictable the moment that Corbyn was made leader of the opposition.

I predict another snap election, because the Tories will smell blood and go in for the kill...

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By *avidnsa69Man
over a year ago

Essex

"this a where its gets interesting... according to "politico's"... there are another dozen labour mp...a couple of lib dems and a dozen tories... including one cabinet minister... who are thinking of making the jump....

if this "movement" gets to say.... 20-25.... then it becomes an issue on all sides...

so.... shall we start guessing names... because i reckon i could also name half a dozen tories who could "jump"........"

Getting to 29 is the magic figure....theyre then the 3rd party in the House

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By *avidnsa69Man
over a year ago

Essex

"A more centerist SDP like party would get support from moderate Labour voters. Unfortunately for them, all it will do is split the votes. Every vote the new party win, will be one less for Labour. The LibDems would almost certainly be thoroughly embarrassed in a general election featuring two labour parties, and would no doubt be looking to form some kind of coalition with the new group.

History repeating itself yet again, but it was predictable the moment that Corbyn was made leader of the opposition.

I predict another snap election, because the Tories will smell blood and go in for the kill..."

I suspect youre correct in your analysis

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

History repeating itself yet again, but it was predictable the moment that Corbyn was made leader of the opposition.

I predict another snap election, because the Tories will smell blood and go in for the kill..."

I'm not sure that they will, to be honest. It's just as likely that they split the Tory vote. I'm sure that if they were confident of gaining ex-labour support, they would be happy to call by-elections....

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By *verysmileMan
over a year ago

Canterbury

History repeating itself yet again, but it was predictable the moment that Corbyn was made leader of the opposition.

I predict another snap election, because the Tories will smell blood and go in for the kill...

I suspect you are right. Recent history should tell any politician that you cannot guarantee a result.

Hilary Clinton, Brexit, May's election in 2017.....you don't always get what you want.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

History repeating itself yet again, but it was predictable the moment that Corbyn was made leader of the opposition.

I predict another snap election, because the Tories will smell blood and go in for the kill...

I suspect you are right. Recent history should tell any politician that you cannot guarantee a result.

Hilary Clinton, Brexit, May's election in 2017.....you don't always get what you want."

I'm pretty sure that New Labour is dead (which is what they essentially are). Leftist parties who stuck to that ideal/the third way principle were wiped out all over Europe.

People forget that Labour polled the highest vote share since Tony Blair's second term at the last election. If the centre draws tory/ex liberal voters in significant numbers (and I think it will, especially if some Tories split), the result will be a Labour government.

I'm also confused about where these people are going to stand going forward. I'm relatively sure Chukka won't get in on an independent ticket in Streatham...

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

History repeating itself yet again, but it was predictable the moment that Corbyn was made leader of the opposition.

I predict another snap election, because the Tories will smell blood and go in for the kill...

I suspect you are right. Recent history should tell any politician that you cannot guarantee a result.

Hilary Clinton, Brexit, May's election in 2017.....you don't always get what you want.

I'm pretty sure that New Labour is dead (which is what they essentially are). Leftist parties who stuck to that ideal/the third way principle were wiped out all over Europe.

I'm also confused about where these people are going to stand going forward. I'm relatively sure Chukka won't get in on an independent ticket in Streatham..."

Many of these MPs are the ones being targeted for deselection at the next GE.

They probably feel that they haven't got anything to lose.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Some people who post here seem to genuinely think JC is some kind of far left loon. But it’s based on headlines and not based on his policies or voting records.

I have to keep stating, I’m not especially a Corbyn supporter.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

History repeating itself yet again, but it was predictable the moment that Corbyn was made leader of the opposition.

I predict another snap election, because the Tories will smell blood and go in for the kill...

I suspect you are right. Recent history should tell any politician that you cannot guarantee a result.

Hilary Clinton, Brexit, May's election in 2017.....you don't always get what you want.

I'm pretty sure that New Labour is dead (which is what they essentially are). Leftist parties who stuck to that ideal/the third way principle were wiped out all over Europe.

I'm also confused about where these people are going to stand going forward. I'm relatively sure Chukka won't get in on an independent ticket in Streatham...

Many of these MPs are the ones being targeted for deselection at the next GE.

They probably feel that they haven't got anything to lose."

Deselection is down to a no confidence vote by their constituency Labour party. All they need to do to avoid it is represent their constituency views.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

History repeating itself yet again, but it was predictable the moment that Corbyn was made leader of the opposition.

I predict another snap election, because the Tories will smell blood and go in for the kill...

I suspect you are right. Recent history should tell any politician that you cannot guarantee a result.

Hilary Clinton, Brexit, May's election in 2017.....you don't always get what you want.

I'm pretty sure that New Labour is dead (which is what they essentially are). Leftist parties who stuck to that ideal/the third way principle were wiped out all over Europe.

I'm also confused about where these people are going to stand going forward. I'm relatively sure Chukka won't get in on an independent ticket in Streatham...

Many of these MPs are the ones being targeted for deselection at the next GE.

They probably feel that they haven't got anything to lose.

Deselection is down to a no confidence vote by their constituency Labour party. All they need to do to avoid it is represent their constituency views. "

So what's your thoughts on arch Corbynite Chris Williamson and his Democracy Roadshow that's been touring various Constituencies?

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

History repeating itself yet again, but it was predictable the moment that Corbyn was made leader of the opposition.

I predict another snap election, because the Tories will smell blood and go in for the kill...

I suspect you are right. Recent history should tell any politician that you cannot guarantee a result.

Hilary Clinton, Brexit, May's election in 2017.....you don't always get what you want.

I'm pretty sure that New Labour is dead (which is what they essentially are). Leftist parties who stuck to that ideal/the third way principle were wiped out all over Europe.

I'm also confused about where these people are going to stand going forward. I'm relatively sure Chukka won't get in on an independent ticket in Streatham...

Many of these MPs are the ones being targeted for deselection at the next GE.

They probably feel that they haven't got anything to lose.

Deselection is down to a no confidence vote by their constituency Labour party. All they need to do to avoid it is represent their constituency views.

So what's your thoughts on arch Corbynite Chris Williamson and his Democracy Roadshow that's been touring various Constituencies? "

As far as I'm aware, the purpose of it is to call for a mandatory reselection process, ie that there is no reselection without a members vote.

I've got no problem with party members having more of a say in the running of the party.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

Looks like 3-5 (depending on which paper you read) Tories are set to join them.

Interesting times if they do. I'm the medium term, looking more likely that they'd split the Tory vote.

In the short term, May's majority looking very shaky. And then they'd either have to prop up May's government or force a general election....

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"Looks like 3-5 (depending on which paper you read) Tories are set to join them.

Interesting times if they do. I'm the medium term, looking more likely that they'd split the Tory vote.

In the short term, May's majority looking very shaky. And then they'd either have to prop up May's government or force a general election....

Our local MP, the one and only Nick Boles, has already been told that he probably won't get reselected at the next GE.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"Looks like 3-5 (depending on which paper you read) Tories are set to join them.

Interesting times if they do. I'm the medium term, looking more likely that they'd split the Tory vote.

In the short term, May's majority looking very shaky. And then they'd either have to prop up May's government or force a general election....

Our local MP, the one and only Nick Boles, has already been told that he probably won't get reselected at the next GE."

I've no idea how selection works in the Tory party.

The interesting thing about the constant attacks on Labour by the press, is that everyone seems to have some sort of opinion on the democratic process within the Labour party (although it's not often that well informed, see talk of "coups"). Nobody has any idea about the workings of the Tory party, or how they deal (or dont) with accusations such as racism, antisemitism or islamophobia...

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

Chukka Ummuna on leaving the Labour Party...

"The only thing to do to an organisation that is unable to be reformed from within is to leave it."

And on the EU....

"We should remain and reform."

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"Looks like 3-5 (depending on which paper you read) Tories are set to join them.

Interesting times if they do. I'm the medium term, looking more likely that they'd split the Tory vote.

In the short term, May's majority looking very shaky. And then they'd either have to prop up May's government or force a general election....

Our local MP, the one and only Nick Boles, has already been told that he probably won't get reselected at the next GE.

I've no idea how selection works in the Tory party.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Looks like 3-5 (depending on which paper you read) Tories are set to join them.

Interesting times if they do. I'm the medium term, looking more likely that they'd split the Tory vote.

In the short term, May's majority looking very shaky. And then they'd either have to prop up May's government or force a general election....

Our local MP, the one and only Nick Boles, has already been told that he probably won't get reselected at the next GE.

I've no idea how selection works in the Tory party.

.Racism amongst the extremists in the Tory party doesn't exist, just ask any right wing lemon.. The prime minister even labelled her own party the "Nasty party ".

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

And then there were 8...

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"And then there were 8..."

"Of course we don't have any policies yet" - Chukka Umunna...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Looks like the more centrist labour pro European mps are going to walk away from corbyns party....

So this question is for the lefties.... we know who the righties are in here so I kindly ask you not to contribute

Would you be tempted to vote for a more centre left party than corbyns labour?"

No.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

Heidi Allen, Dr Sarah Wollaston and Anna Soubrey are all rumoured to be leaving the Conservative Party very shortly.

All are very pro-remain.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"And then there were 8...

"Of course we don't have any policies yet" - Chukka Umunna...

The splitters are looking for donations.The electoral commission are investigating them already.

Some are asking why the groups company is registered where it is.

Gemini Ltd is registered to a premises above the Unicorn Wetherspoons, in the Constituency of Tory Sir Graham Brady.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"And then there were 8...

"Of course we don't have any policies yet" - Chukka Umunna...

The splitters are looking for donations.The electoral commission are investigating them already.

Some are asking why the groups company is registered where it is.

Gemini Ltd is registered to a premises above the Unicorn Wetherspoons, in the Constituency of Tory Sir Graham Brady."

LOL. Next thing is you'll be trying to claim it's an ERG, pro BREXIT conspiracy.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"Looks like the more centrist labour pro European mps are going to walk away from corbyns party....

So this question is for the lefties.... we know who the righties are in here so I kindly ask you not to contribute

Would you be tempted to vote for a more centre left party than corbyns labour?"

Whether I'd be tempted to vote for them depends. Currently I'm only inclined to vote for people, parties or groups who are willing to take a strong pro EU, anti BREXIT stand. So yes.

Long term it depends. If they position themselves permeability left of centre then probably not. If, however, they position themselves either pan central or slightly right of centre then quite possibly yea.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

Brwxit is the wrong answer to the wrong question:

Why doesn’t the ignorant, dickhead, extremist British public like us? ask centrist politicians

MODERATE UK politicians are bewildered that the clueless, moronic, and bigoted general public, especially those in the godforsaken North, do not support them and their careers.

Labour campaigner Tom Logan is mystified that his widely-distributed pamphlet ‘We Wear Suits And Know What’s Best For You So Do As You’re Told’ has failed to woo voters in the Labour heartlands.

Logan said: “Lord knows we do our best for these people, as much as possible when you’re living in the real world created by Margaret Thatcher.

“We’ve pledged to be ‘on their side’, ‘hear their concerns’ and ‘bring aspiration back to schools’ and yet we’re met with apathy by the very people who should be voting for us in droves because they always used to.”

He added: “I see these people on the doorstep every day and I say the same thing over and over to them: ‘Are you thick, or what?’”

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

Oh, wait somebody is now going to decide that the post above means that I think that the British public is thick rather than that politicians (and Europhobes) are misunderstanding the problem

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

New centrist party to unite all the shittest bits of UK politics

A PARTY that sits between the Conservatives and Labour on the political spectrum would be a strange hybrid of the worse parts of both of them, it has been confirmed.

Amid concerns that Labour are all scary Communists and the Tories have been irretrievably hijacked by hardline Brexiteer mentalists, it is believed that a wishy-washy in-between party who are not called the Liberal Democrats could attract many voters.

Professor Henry Brubaker of the Institute for Studies said: “While the extreme end of any party is weird, the alternative is the politically-anaemic centre ground where no one has any strongly-held convictions.

“This means they’re likely all just in it for themselves, but you can’t tell because they look like ordinary people instead of obvious nutters like Jacob Rees-Mogg or John McDonnell.

“One recent attempt has been funded by a group of multi-millionaires who probably don’t give a shit about politics but just want to stop Corbyn redistributing their wealth to the poor or Brexit shafting the economy.

“However, Tony Blair has endorsed the idea of a centrist party and he’s basically the opposite of Midas, in that everything he touches turns to shit, so the idea will probably just sink without a trace.”

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Then there were 11..

Its gone cross party..

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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

...... and here comes the tories....

sarah wooleston, heidi allen and anna soubry all go........

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

1 labour

3 tories.

join the independent group .

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"1 labour

3 tories.

join the independent group .

Mrs May will be able to bin the DUP and sign them up now

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Wonder if Frank Field is tempted..

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

Wonder about the ministers who have already stood down over Brexit.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

So when does a Movement become a Party?

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

i think they should all stand for re election in by elections now.All these people clearly stood on a manifesto to leave the eu see how their votes think about them now.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"Wonder if Frank Field is tempted.. "

But isn't he pro leave?

The independent split has already split.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"So when does a Movement become a Party?

When they want to be subject to electoral rules?

I wonder why they want to keep their backers a secret....

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

"So when does a Movement become a Party?

When it's acknowledged?

At the moment, Labours response is they are have stood by a mandate and should stand down. That they were likely to be de-selected, they will allow the Cons to win the next election.

Blame sours.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"i think they should all stand for re election in by elections now.All these people clearly stood on a manifesto to leave the eu see how their votes think about them now."

I think everyone thinks they should. Apart from the MPs themselves.

You underestimate Chukka's ego.

I think a lot of this is about his ego. I think he sees himself as becoming Britain's Barak Obama.

He was a rising star in New Labour and expected all the things that the PLP had put in place: being parachuted into a safe seat, uncontested reselection, a guaranteed place in the shadow cabinet....

The reforms within Labour to make it more democratic and accountable to it's members mean he would have to dane to do what his constituency party wanted him to do and not whatever the he'll he wanted, and he thinks he's far too important to listen to the plebs..

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"So when does a Movement become a Party?

When it's acknowledged?

At the moment, Labours response is they are have stood by a mandate and should stand down. That they were likely to be de-selected, they will allow the Cons to win the next election.

Blame sours."

What the question is getting at is this: the Independent group are not a political party, they are currently a private business. This means they don't have to declare their financial backers to parliament.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"...... and here comes the tories....

sarah wooleston, heidi allen and anna soubry all go........

Oh....

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

"So when does a Movement become a Party?

When it's acknowledged?

At the moment, Labours response is they are have stood by a mandate and should stand down. That they were likely to be de-selected, they will allow the Cons to win the next election.

Blame sours.

Only as you just posted about it and have to justify why you're so bitter.

At the moment the group isn't a party, it is small, unable to be elected.

I saw it as a more a simple observation rather than a bone of contention.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"So when does a Movement become a Party?

When it's acknowledged?

At the moment, Labours response is they are have stood by a mandate and should stand down. That they were likely to be de-selected, they will allow the Cons to win the next election.

Blame sours.

Only as you just posted about it and have to justify why you're so bitter.

At the moment the group isn't a party, it is small, unable to be elected.

I saw it as a more a simple observation rather than a bone of contention. "

I'm not bitter - but it's slightly worrying that they can do that, no?

I'm wondering if this won't attract some sort of legal challenge.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"...... and here comes the tories....

sarah wooleston, heidi allen and anna soubry all go........

Good riddance.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

The parliamentary rules are such that we vote for individuals not party lists.

They do not have to stand for re-election and they are choosing to leverage their power in a minority government just as the ERG are doing from within the Conservative Party.

They are not a party, they are now a group of independents who will no doubt not vote as a block on everything.

That would be the point no?

All this time many on here complain about party politics and how hopeless it all is and as soon as this changes there are complaints about lack of loyalty and ruining the prospects of gaining power?

This may be an unsatisfactory way to do this but they have all decided that they can no longer sit within their parties so off they go.

Churchill did not call a by-election when he crossed the floor from Tory to Liberal. He waited until the next general election.

Just for reference.

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

"So when does a Movement become a Party?

When it's acknowledged?

At the moment, Labours response is they are have stood by a mandate and should stand down. That they were likely to be de-selected, they will allow the Cons to win the next election.

Blame sours.

Only as you just posted about it and have to justify why you're so bitter.

At the moment the group isn't a party, it is small, unable to be elected.

I saw it as a more a simple observation rather than a bone of contention.

I'm not bitter - but it's slightly worrying that they can do that, no?

I'm wondering if this won't attract some sort of legal challenge. "

Bollocks.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"So when does a Movement become a Party?

When it's acknowledged?

At the moment, Labours response is they are have stood by a mandate and should stand down. That they were likely to be de-selected, they will allow the Cons to win the next election.

Blame sours.

Only as you just posted about it and have to justify why you're so bitter.

At the moment the group isn't a party, it is small, unable to be elected.

I saw it as a more a simple observation rather than a bone of contention.

I'm not bitter - but it's slightly worrying that they can do that, no?

I'm wondering if this won't attract some sort of legal challenge.

Bollocks."

You think that nobody within parliament (either Tory or Labour) isn't looking for a way to force them to reveal their backers?

*cough* Souros *cough*

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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

You think that nobody within parliament (either Tory or Labour) isn't looking for a way to force them to reveal their backers?

*cough* Souros *cough*"

it not soros... the rumors is that it more likely to be ex labour backers like lord sainsbury...

just to make to both sided... the likes of Leave.EU are trying to get ex kippers to join the tories so they can de-select pro-eu tories.... so they are pushing the party right, just like momentum have pushed the labour party left......

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

You think that nobody within parliament (either Tory or Labour) isn't looking for a way to force them to reveal their backers?

*cough* Souros *cough*

it not soros... the rumors is that it more likely to be ex labour backers like lord sainsbury...

But not that left. Labour is currently 1995 left. It's certainly more to the right of any previous Labour government, with the exception of Blair's. It's to the right of Heath and of Churchills coalition....

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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

You think that nobody within parliament (either Tory or Labour) isn't looking for a way to force them to reveal their backers?

*cough* Souros *cough*

it not soros... the rumors is that it more likely to be ex labour backers like lord sainsbury...

on the day that some of the more moderates left, derek hatton is welcomed back in with opened arms and george galloway is begging to be allowed back in...... sorry, thats not "'95 left".....

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

You think that nobody within parliament (either Tory or Labour) isn't looking for a way to force them to reveal their backers?

*cough* Souros *cough*

it not soros... the rumors is that it more likely to be ex labour backers like lord sainsbury...

on the day that some of the more moderates left, derek hatton is welcomed back in with opened arms and george galloway is begging to be allowed back in...... sorry, thats not "'95 left"....."

Has the manifesto changed then?

The whole of politics has shifted so far to the right, if Jeremy Corbyn is "far left", god knows what they'd make of the Attlee government.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"So when does a Movement become a Party?

When they want to be subject to electoral rules?

I wonder why they want to keep their backers a secret...."

I hear rumours, and only rumours, that a certain Tony Blair is something to do with the finance.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"So when does a Movement become a Party?

When they want to be subject to electoral rules?

I wonder why they want to keep their backers a secret....

I hear rumours, and only rumours, that a certain Tony Blair is something to do with the finance."
well he can afford it the pair of them made enough.

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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

wow.... heidi is not holding back in this presser... this is why she was the one tory mp i really did admire...

... political crush!!!!

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By *verysmileMan
over a year ago

Canterbury

"wow.... heidi is not holding back in this presser... this is why she was the one tory mp i really did admire...

... political crush!!!!"

Looks like you have gone all soft on her pmsl

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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

actually i think all three of them in their speeches made a very good case....

i don't always see eye to eye with anna soubry (i have had the pleasure as a civil servant in having to deal with her in mp capacity issues) but in the last 12-18 months the one thing she has does more than when i originally met her is gain my respect....

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Wonder if Frank Field is tempted..

But isn't he pro leave?

The independent split has already split.

I am minded of the scene in the life of Brian..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"actually i think all three of them in their speeches made a very good case....

Me too we are politically poles apart but on the vexing issue of leaving the European Union I agree with her and she has kept on message .

Most of the remain campaign have been a tad conciliatory, she has kept her firm stance .

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

Tories regret joining party full of horrible bastards

THE bitter infighting over Europe has led Conservatives to question whether it was a good idea to join a party known for being horrible to people.

After decades of animosity, some have realised there is a downside to being in a party full of arrogant bastards who enjoy seeing others suffer.

Tory member Julian Cook said: “The last thing I expected was for Tories to be nasty to me because I’m not in one of our approved hate groups like ‘hopeless dole twat’ or ‘up-themselves doctor’.

“Unfortunately we’re split into Tories who hate foreigners and Tories who hate foreigners but realise we’ll lose our jobs if we totally fuck the economy.

“Sometimes I think I should have joined the Labour party. When they fall out they just do this passive-aggressive thing where they make each other attend really boring committee meetings.”

Tory MP Donna Sheridan said: “Personal abuse is never acceptable unless it’s calling Corbyn a ‘stinky old tramp man’ or something clever and hilarious like that.

“Sometimes it’s hard to believe we’re the same party that produced lovely, warm people like Margaret Thatcher, Enoch Powell and all the ones who wanted to hang Nelson Mandela.”

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

the dailymash

Eighth Labour MP to quit admits she slept through her alarm on Monday

THE eighth Labour MP to quit for the independent group admitted she was meant to leave on Monday but it had been a big weekend.

Joan Ryan, MP for Enfield North, confessed that drinking three bottles of wine to celebrate her freedom from ‘that sanctimonious lefter-than-thou twat’ on Sunday evening left her in no state for a press conference on Monday morning.

She continued: “Come on. It’s not like the anti-Semitism’s got dramatically worse in the last two days. You have to believe me.

“I don’t even remember the alarm going off, but I remember my phone buzzing like fuck and this banging on the door which turned out to be a SPAD they’d sent round. I couldn’t face it. I just put my pillow over my head and groaned.

“The other seven have been a bit off with me and fair enough, but we’re all independent. Sly sideways looks are what I left Labour to get away from.

Following the announcement that three Tories had quit, Ryan added: “Oh for Christ’s sake. Now I look like I’ve only done it because they did.

“Still, now there’s 11 of us we’re more powerful than the DUP. And they run Britain.”

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

Britain needs a moderate, anti-Brexit party, say people studiously ignoring the Lib Dems

UK voters desperately want a pro-European party with sensible centrist policies, according to people determined to ignore the existence of the Lib Dems.

Millions of voters confirmed they would back a party opposed to both Brexit and extremism while pretending he had never heard of Vince Cable.

Tom Booker, from Stevenage, said: “There’s a huge appetite for an alternative to either Labour or the Tories, a third party that can capture those voters crying out for moderation.

“A party that offers a clear alternative on Brexit, such as the promise of a second referendum, would be guaranteed to capture at least 48 per cent of the vote nationally. That’s simply fact.

“A new centrist party, which would emphasise British values of liberalism and democracy and probably have neutral orange branding, would rocket to victory and smash the two-party system once and for all.”

Mary Fisher, from Bath, added: “A party like that would definitely get my vote. Around here there’s no-one to vote for but the fucking Lib Dems.”

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

Yay, now it’s our turn to call people traitors, confirms Labour

A SPLIT in the Labour party today means both of Britain’s leading political parties will spend all their time constantly denouncing traitors.

Following the departure of Chuka Umunna and six other moderates to form a tiny, pointless centrist party, Labour will cease opposing the Conservatives and focus all its efforts on the Judases from within its own ranks.

Guardian columnist Owen Jones said: “Everyone knows the Tories are bad. The thrill of fighting them’s long since worn off. These treasonous fuckers? Death’s too good for them. They need parading in the streets of Liverpool with bells tolling their moderate shame.

“There’s nothing healthier than a country where both major parties are entirely focused on the back-stabbing turncoats on their own side, and what better time than when facing a national crisis neither is willing to address?

“Traitors! Traitors! Ah, it feels so good to finally scream it. You know, I kind of get where the Brexiters are coming from now.”

Party member Norman Steele said: “Ah, I remember when Corbyn was a traitor. Of course, because it was him we called him a ‘rebel’.”

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

Was that trolling?

I don't know, but it all seemed pertinent.

Mostly

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Was that trolling?

I don't know, but it all seemed pertinent.

Mostly

Brilliant..,

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

Didn't Vince Cable say there would be a place for Labour rebels?

Reckon they'll merge with the Lib Dems?

Also; there's a rumour that Tony Blair is going to join once they can have members...

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

And although they are positioning themselves as pro-remain, unless article 50 is extended, aren't they too late?

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

Has it? He's done rather a lot over his career to fight antisemitism.

You can Google it or I can make a lengthy post in here if you really want....

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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

i think you will see another dozen from both sides go between now and the beginning of march (post next set of brexit votes).....

remember the other magic number is 4... which is the amount of tories that would need to defect for the may/dup coalition to not have a majority.....

i could point at sir philip lee, justine greening and nick boles who i really expect to make the jump on the tory side sooner rather than later.... then we shall see...

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

They have no place in the British political system as far as I am concerned.

Nobody knows what will happen next as the face of British politics is changing due the non democratic practices of MP's.

This breakaway group will no doubt never run the country but could be as influencial as UKIP in many ways.

As a brexiteer I could not support them as they are remainers and therefore traitors but after the EU has gone into history they maybe important if they can find the right middle of the road policies

Remainders are traitors?

Really?

48% of the population are traitors? Every other person you speak to.

Wow."
It is the MP's not doing what the MAJORITY voted for that are the traitors

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"i think you will see another dozen from both sides go between now and the beginning of march (post next set of brexit votes).....

remember the other magic number is 4... which is the amount of tories that would need to defect for the may/dup coalition to not have a majority.....

i could point at sir philip lee, justine greening and nick boles who i really expect to make the jump on the tory side sooner rather than later.... then we shall see..."

My initial feeling was that a few more would go, but I'm not sure now. They will be weighing up whether they will hang onto their seats if they do, I suspect.

In other news; Tony Blair is hotly tipped to join....

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By *an_WoodMan
over a year ago

Stafford

The nasty party say goodbye and we hope you change your mind and return. The labour party say fuck off red Tory traitor scum. Not so smart. Add in the fact Corbyn is 3rd rate as a politician. Guess I am not going to be voting for anyone any time soon.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

History repeating itself yet again, but it was predictable the moment that Corbyn was made leader of the opposition.

I predict another snap election, because the Tories will smell blood and go in for the kill...

I suspect you are right. Recent history should tell any politician that you cannot guarantee a result.

Hilary Clinton, Brexit, May's election in 2017.....you don't always get what you want.

I'm pretty sure that New Labour is dead (which is what they essentially are). Leftist parties who stuck to that ideal/the third way principle were wiped out all over Europe.

I'm also confused about where these people are going to stand going forward. I'm relatively sure Chukka won't get in on an independent ticket in Streatham...

Many of these MPs are the ones being targeted for deselection at the next GE.

They probably feel that they haven't got anything to lose.

Deselection is down to a no confidence vote by their constituency Labour party. All they need to do to avoid it is represent their constituency views. "

No, and this applies equally to Conservative as well as Labour, all they have to do to avoid deselection is what their constituency associations say, and that's not always the same as their constituents views; especially if the association has been taken over by UKIP/ERG or momentum.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

They have no place in the British political system as far as I am concerned.

Nobody knows what will happen next as the face of British politics is changing due the non democratic practices of MP's.

This breakaway group will no doubt never run the country but could be as influencial as UKIP in many ways.

As a brexiteer I could not support them as they are remainers and therefore traitors but after the EU has gone into history they maybe important if they can find the right middle of the road policies

Remainders are traitors?

Really?

48% of the population are traitors? Every other person you speak to.

Wow.It is the MP's not doing what the MAJORITY voted for that are the traitors"

MPs don't have to follow the majority any more than any other individual.

What a nonsense. That leaves 48% without any representation whatsoever.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"i think you will see another dozen from both sides go between now and the beginning of march (post next set of brexit votes).....

remember the other magic number is 4... which is the amount of tories that would need to defect for the may/dup coalition to not have a majority.....

i could point at sir philip lee, justine greening and nick boles who i really expect to make the jump on the tory side sooner rather than later.... then we shall see...

My initial feeling was that a few more would go, but I'm not sure now. They will be weighing up whether they will hang onto their seats if they do, I suspect.

In other news; Tony Blair is hotly tipped to join...."

How can he join a group of independent MPs?

Did you just read one of the Dai3 Mash purges I posted?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The labour party under Corbyn has become a hostile environment.

Closest thing to a cult of personality we will ever see in the UK

Momentum are a cancer in that party. Aggressive and killing the entire social democratic movement. The espouse change they are puppets of the totalitarian left.

No way would I support this version of this party.

The British public doesn’t do extremism. It never has. It prefers the status quo. The fringes don’t realise that.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"The British public doesn’t do extremism. It never has. It prefers the status quo. The fringes don’t realise that.

What the fuck do you think you have from our present government? Enlightenment?

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"i think you will see another dozen from both sides go between now and the beginning of march (post next set of brexit votes).....

remember the other magic number is 4... which is the amount of tories that would need to defect for the may/dup coalition to not have a majority.....

i could point at sir philip lee, justine greening and nick boles who i really expect to make the jump on the tory side sooner rather than later.... then we shall see...

My initial feeling was that a few more would go, but I'm not sure now. They will be weighing up whether they will hang onto their seats if they do, I suspect.

In other news; Tony Blair is hotly tipped to join....

How can he join a group of independent MPs?

Did you just read one of the Dai3 Mash purges I posted?

I've no idea how he'd join a non party, but: https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/tony-blair-tipped-to-be-next-to-join-independent-group/20/02/

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

History repeating itself yet again, but it was predictable the moment that Corbyn was made leader of the opposition.

I predict another snap election, because the Tories will smell blood and go in for the kill...

I suspect you are right. Recent history should tell any politician that you cannot guarantee a result.

Hilary Clinton, Brexit, May's election in 2017.....you don't always get what you want.

I'm pretty sure that New Labour is dead (which is what they essentially are). Leftist parties who stuck to that ideal/the third way principle were wiped out all over Europe.

I'm also confused about where these people are going to stand going forward. I'm relatively sure Chukka won't get in on an independent ticket in Streatham...

Many of these MPs are the ones being targeted for deselection at the next GE.

They probably feel that they haven't got anything to lose.

Deselection is down to a no confidence vote by their constituency Labour party. All they need to do to avoid it is represent their constituency views.

I have no idea how the cons work at a local level, but within Labour, since it has been opened up democratically, a constituency Labour party can call a vote of no confidence. These are generally your rankand file members involved at a community level.

The leeway for what you can get away with in terms of deviation from the party line are pretty wide. It's pretty hard to get a VONC called.

I know people like to blame momentum, because it's a handy thing to scream about, but most constituency members aren't anything to do with momentum.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The British public doesn’t do extremism. It never has. It prefers the status quo. The fringes don’t realise that.

What the fuck do you think you have from our present government? Enlightenment?

No, the electorate are generally very submissive. They prefer to be dominated that’s all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

History repeating itself yet again, but it was predictable the moment that Corbyn was made leader of the opposition.

I predict another snap election, because the Tories will smell blood and go in for the kill...

I suspect you are right. Recent history should tell any politician that you cannot guarantee a result.

Hilary Clinton, Brexit, May's election in 2017.....you don't always get what you want.

I'm pretty sure that New Labour is dead (which is what they essentially are). Leftist parties who stuck to that ideal/the third way principle were wiped out all over Europe.

I'm also confused about where these people are going to stand going forward. I'm relatively sure Chukka won't get in on an independent ticket in Streatham...

Many of these MPs are the ones being targeted for deselection at the next GE.

They probably feel that they haven't got anything to lose.

Deselection is down to a no confidence vote by their constituency Labour party. All they need to do to avoid it is represent their constituency views.

The leeway for what you can get away with in terms of deviation from the party line are pretty wide. It's pretty hard to get a VONC called.

I know people like to blame momentum, because it's a handy thing to scream about, but most constituency members aren't anything to do with momentum."

Most members cannot get a word in edgeways if momentum members were at a meeting. They are loud obnoxious cunts.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

History repeating itself yet again, but it was predictable the moment that Corbyn was made leader of the opposition.

I predict another snap election, because the Tories will smell blood and go in for the kill...

I suspect you are right. Recent history should tell any politician that you cannot guarantee a result.

Hilary Clinton, Brexit, May's election in 2017.....you don't always get what you want.

I'm pretty sure that New Labour is dead (which is what they essentially are). Leftist parties who stuck to that ideal/the third way principle were wiped out all over Europe.

I'm also confused about where these people are going to stand going forward. I'm relatively sure Chukka won't get in on an independent ticket in Streatham...

Many of these MPs are the ones being targeted for deselection at the next GE.

They probably feel that they haven't got anything to lose.

Deselection is down to a no confidence vote by their constituency Labour party. All they need to do to avoid it is represent their constituency views.

The leeway for what you can get away with in terms of deviation from the party line are pretty wide. It's pretty hard to get a VONC called.

I know people like to blame momentum, because it's a handy thing to scream about, but most constituency members aren't anything to do with momentum.

Most members cannot get a word in edgeways if momentum members were at a meeting. They are loud obnoxious cunts. "

Is this from personal experience of Labour branch meetings?

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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Is this from personal experience of Labour branch meetings?"

I can’t speak for labour branch meetings.... but for the two labour leadership hustings I went to during both sets of contests I can tell you if you were a moderate and weren’t all corbyn then you were given a much rougher time......

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By *avidnsa69Man
over a year ago

Essex

History repeating itself yet again, but it was predictable the moment that Corbyn was made leader of the opposition.

I predict another snap election, because the Tories will smell blood and go in for the kill...

I suspect you are right. Recent history should tell any politician that you cannot guarantee a result.

Hilary Clinton, Brexit, May's election in 2017.....you don't always get what you want.

I'm pretty sure that New Labour is dead (which is what they essentially are). Leftist parties who stuck to that ideal/the third way principle were wiped out all over Europe.

I'm also confused about where these people are going to stand going forward. I'm relatively sure Chukka won't get in on an independent ticket in Streatham...

Many of these MPs are the ones being targeted for deselection at the next GE.

They probably feel that they haven't got anything to lose.

Deselection is down to a no confidence vote by their constituency Labour party. All they need to do to avoid it is represent their constituency views.

The leeway for what you can get away with in terms of deviation from the party line are pretty wide. It's pretty hard to get a VONC called.

I know people like to blame momentum, because it's a handy thing to scream about, but most constituency members aren't anything to do with momentum.

Most members cannot get a word in edgeways if momentum members were at a meeting. They are loud obnoxious cunts. "

Correct....gobshites and morons for the most part in my experience (I speak as a Party member of 40 years standing)

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By *avidnsa69Man
over a year ago

Essex

History repeating itself yet again, but it was predictable the moment that Corbyn was made leader of the opposition.

I predict another snap election, because the Tories will smell blood and go in for the kill...

I suspect you are right. Recent history should tell any politician that you cannot guarantee a result.

Hilary Clinton, Brexit, May's election in 2017.....you don't always get what you want.

I'm pretty sure that New Labour is dead (which is what they essentially are). Leftist parties who stuck to that ideal/the third way principle were wiped out all over Europe.

I'm also confused about where these people are going to stand going forward. I'm relatively sure Chukka won't get in on an independent ticket in Streatham...

Many of these MPs are the ones being targeted for deselection at the next GE.

They probably feel that they haven't got anything to lose.

Deselection is down to a no confidence vote by their constituency Labour party. All they need to do to avoid it is represent their constituency views.

The leeway for what you can get away with in terms of deviation from the party line are pretty wide. It's pretty hard to get a VONC called.

I know people like to blame momentum, because it's a handy thing to scream about, but most constituency members aren't anything to do with momentum.

Most members cannot get a word in edgeways if momentum members were at a meeting. They are loud obnoxious cunts.

Is this from personal experience of Labour branch meetings?"

It's certainly my experience. Theyre no better than Militant were (and we saw off those despicable Trots back in the day)

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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Justine greening was all but telling people she was leaving on radio 4 today this morning..... I still think boles will go... I could see grieves making the jump as well

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"The labour party under Corbyn has become a hostile environment.

Closest thing to a cult of personality we will ever see in the UK

Momentum are a cancer in that party. Aggressive and killing the entire social democratic movement. The espouse change they are puppets of the totalitarian left.

No way would I support this version of this party.

The British public doesn’t do extremism. It never has. It prefers the status quo. The fringes don’t realise that.

See, my analysis is the opposite of that.

If it's a "personality cult", it's the shittest personality cult ever, seeing as he is widely criticised by other Labour MPs, and they appear not to face any repercussions other than engagement with their point/a rebuttal.

Since reforms to the party were made under his leadership, MPs are more accountable to the membership than they had been before.

However, if you look at the party under Blair:

Constituencies had no say on the selection of their candidates, meaning that Tony could parachute his acolytes into safe Labour seats, whereupon they could have a career indefinitely, as they were effectively only answerable to the leadership.

You could definitely be kicked out of the party entirely for criticising the glorious leader (See:Galloway and Iraq).

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"i think you will see another dozen from both sides go between now and the beginning of march (post next set of brexit votes).....

remember the other magic number is 4... which is the amount of tories that would need to defect for the may/dup coalition to not have a majority.....

i could point at sir philip lee, justine greening and nick boles who i really expect to make the jump on the tory side sooner rather than later.... then we shall see..."
These leavers ae not forming a party as such just voting is independants so nobody can be sure about what will happen,but Labour will suffer more than tories I think

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If May continues on the path of no deal the Conservatives will lose many many more.

Its going to be devastating for the conservatives.The remainers in the party won't tolerate a no deal at any costs.Its all falling apart . :It's a beautiful thing to behold -)

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"If May continues on the path of no deal the Conservatives will lose many many more.

Its going to be devastating for the conservatives.The remainers in the party won't tolerate a no deal at any costs.Its all falling apart . :It's a beautiful thing to behold -)"
Whats so beautiful about our government falling apart? showing your true colours now dont give a fuck about the country just to say "i was right".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If May continues on the path of no deal the Conservatives will lose many many more.

Its going to be devastating for the conservatives.The remainers in the party won't tolerate a no deal at any costs.Its all falling apart . :It's a beautiful thing to behold -)Whats so beautiful about our government falling apart? showing your true colours now dont give a fuck about the country just to say "i was right". "

If the last few years have shown anything, being able to say I was right, I won, is more important than consequences ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If May continues on the path of no deal the Conservatives will lose many many more.

I don't give a flying fuck about a conservative government that will flush the economy down the shitter because extremists pull the strings

There is nothing better than watching them fracture .Ive never voted for them and never will.You feel the same about corbyn..

Those who support this government are betting on a losing hand

It's quite delicious to watch.

Thankyou Prime Minister for the lols.

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By *laytimenowMan
over a year ago

Essex

"If May continues on the path of no deal the Conservatives will lose many many more.

Its going to be devastating for the conservatives.The remainers in the party won't tolerate a no deal at any costs.Its all falling apart . :It's a beautiful thing to behold -)"

May has no choice but to continue.

Article 50 paragraph 3 .

You tube James Obrien & jason hunt.

She is stringing everyone along pretending there is a deal to be done in the hope the EU will fold & change its position.

If was 1 against 1 maybe , but not 27 against one. There not going to fold.

Then the uk is in the deepest of Shit.

Anyone who tells you different is a fool.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The labour party under Corbyn has become a hostile environment.

Closest thing to a cult of personality we will ever see in the UK

Momentum are a cancer in that party. Aggressive and killing the entire social democratic movement. The espouse change they are puppets of the totalitarian left.

No way would I support this version of this party.

The British public doesn’t do extremism. It never has. It prefers the status quo. The fringes don’t realise that.

See, my analysis is the opposite of that.

Since reforms to the party were made under his leadership, MPs are more accountable to the membership than they had been before.

However, if you look at the party under Blair:

You could definitely be kicked out of the party entirely for criticising the glorious leader (See:Galloway and Iraq).

George Galloway pfft glory hound remember celebrity big brother?

JC = need I say more? Those initials are pretty familiar. There are chants of his name, like a cult. Step one indoctrination.

Selection has always been a problem it’s a shit system. Accountability? horseshit, more a case of momentum kicking up a fuss if people don’t agree with their politics. They forgotten the concept of social democracy. They use tactics of epic Maoist proportions, to railroad, harass, bully and intimidate members.

They cannot realise it because they think they are doing just causes. Really they are acting like the people involved in China’s cultural revolution. How did that turn out? Or possibly the Khemer rouge?

Just admit it, extreme left and extreme right touch each other they become indistinguishable from each other. That then forms a ring, like an arsehole.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"The labour party under Corbyn has become a hostile environment.

Closest thing to a cult of personality we will ever see in the UK

Momentum are a cancer in that party. Aggressive and killing the entire social democratic movement. The espouse change they are puppets of the totalitarian left.

No way would I support this version of this party.

The British public doesn’t do extremism. It never has. It prefers the status quo. The fringes don’t realise that.

See, my analysis is the opposite of that.

Since reforms to the party were made under his leadership, MPs are more accountable to the membership than they had been before.

However, if you look at the party under Blair:

You could definitely be kicked out of the party entirely for criticising the glorious leader (See:Galloway and Iraq).

George Galloway pfft glory hound remember celebrity big brother?

JC = need I say more? Those initials are pretty familiar. There are chants of his name, like a cult. Step one indoctrination.

Just admit it, extreme left and extreme right touch each other they become indistinguishable from each other. That then forms a ring, like an arsehole.

But my point about Galloway was that he was expelled for speaking out against the Government with respect to Iraq. His personality is irrelevant. I can't think of anyone who Corbyn has done anything more than mildly admonish (apart from those kicked out for antisemitism).

Momentum might "kick up a fuss", whatever that means, but all of the changes made have made MPs more accountable to the membership, via an almost tedious commitment to having ballots on everything.

It is, in fact the exact opposite of a dictatorship, which, like I said (and you seem unable to refute) was much more the case under Blair.

If Momentum facilitate robust debate, then that can only be a good thing.

I'm at a loss to see how a commitment to more democracy makes them anti social democracy, personally....