FabSwingers.com forum: Education

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Should it be free for everyone?

I’m lucky to live in Scotland where university is free for me if I wished to attend (which I do, at some point).

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I think yes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think yes"

I think yes too!

It’s took the best part of 10 years to repay my uni debts!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No I don't.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I think yes

I think yes too!

It’s took the best part of 10 years to repay my uni debts! "

Ouch!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If your studying for a job which benefits In some way I feel it should be free and all over should be done on a percentage to which you can afford at that time x

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By *nabelle21Woman
over a year ago

B38

I think it should be free to everyone. It must affect a lot of people who can't go purely down to to finances. What a shame and what a waste.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't think anything should be free.

We should all have to work for what we want.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Absolutely. If people earn more as a result of a better education they will pay more taxes. If their education is used for lower paid, high skilled jobs (think nursing) they wouldn't pay back so much

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 08/02/19 21:59:33]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't think anything should be free.

We should all have to work for what we want."

Agreed.

I always have

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I think that education should be free in principle but if your educatin leads to a higher income, taxation should reflect that.

So if you are University educated and are better employed as a result, you should contribute more in tax than someone who started at the bottom and worked their way up."

So if me and you had the same job but I started straight out of uni whereas you had been there for a number of years building yourself to the same level, I should pay more? Or have I got that wrong

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

I paid no tuition fees and qualified for a grant. I came out the other side owing nothing.

I'd like it to still be that way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Engineering so costly in India.. it is madness to be after engineering or doctor thing. there are better paths and passions which may not pay good but enjoyable.. i had done engineering too paid seat but it was manageable..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Agree with the above regarding taxes, but there should be a "graduate tax".

If you earn more because of your education, then you should pay a little bit more in tax compared to those who worked their way to the top despite their lack of education.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I don't think anything should be free.

We should all have to work for what we want.

Agreed.

I always have "

So should we all pay for our children’s education? I live pay check to pay check. I’m unsure I’d be able to afford to pay for my children’s education.

But then maybe I can’t afford to have children? (Whooooole different debate)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think that education should be free in principle but if your educatin leads to a higher income, taxation should reflect that.

So if you are University educated and are better employed as a result, you should contribute more in tax than someone who started at the bottom and worked their way up.

So if me and you had the same job but I started straight out of uni whereas you had been there for a number of years building yourself to the same level, I should pay more? Or have I got that wrong

Hell no! Everyone should pay the same tax! If your a higher earner then you’ve lucked in, you worked hard to relearn more than the next person so why punish them?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Agree with the above regarding taxes, but there should be a "graduate tax".

If you earn more because of your education, then you should pay a little bit more in tax compared to those who worked their way to the top despite their lack of education."

Got it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think that education should be free in principle but if your educatin leads to a higher income, taxation should reflect that.

So if you are University educated and are better employed as a result, you should contribute more in tax than someone who started at the bottom and worked their way up.

So if me and you had the same job but I started straight out of uni whereas you had been there for a number of years building yourself to the same level, I should pay more? Or have I got that wrong

In principle yes.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I think that education should be free in principle but if your educatin leads to a higher income, taxation should reflect that.

So if you are University educated and are better employed as a result, you should contribute more in tax than someone who started at the bottom and worked their way up.

So if me and you had the same job but I started straight out of uni whereas you had been there for a number of years building yourself to the same level, I should pay more? Or have I got that wrong

Hell no! Everyone should pay the same tax! If your a higher earner then you’ve lucked in, you worked hard to relearn more than the next person so why punish them? "

It’s okay - I got it wrong a bit! He means if I earned more than him

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By *isaB45Woman
over a year ago

Fabville

"Agree with the above regarding taxes, but there should be a "graduate tax".

If you earn more because of your education, then you should pay a little bit more in tax compared to those who worked their way to the top despite their lack of education."

How would that work for nurses, for example. They cannot work as a nurse unless they qualify/ graduate. They can never work their way up...

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

education has never been free as all the tax payers pay for it .... BUT ......

I think it should be much more difficult to get into higher education and then it should be free.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't think anything should be free.

We should all have to work for what we want.

Agreed.

I always have

So should we all pay for our children’s education? I live pay check to pay check. I’m unsure I’d be able to afford to pay for my children’s education.

But then maybe I can’t afford to have children? (Whooooole different debate)"

Yes it is another debate.

But people shouldn't have children if they can't afford them.

Why should anyone get anything for free?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes but i draw the line at degrees in Star Trek, surfing and gender diversity studies in modern greenland

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"education has never been free as all the tax payers pay for it .... BUT ......

I think it should be much more difficult to get into higher education and then it should be free..... "

I live in a uni town and the students are some of the most idiotic people I’ve met. Most are American and have gotten into such a brilliant uni because they can afford it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Should it be free for everyone?

I’m lucky to live in Scotland where university is free for me if I wished to attend (which I do, at some point). "

I'd say yes, but with a caveat. No one should be carrying debt forward into work and it should be free at point of contact so as not to discourage anyone from being able to afford to go, but those benefitting from it have should have a different tax rate going forward, even if it is marginal.

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By *eryBigGirlWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire

Some education should be free. For example I legally have to hold a certain degree to do my job and I think that it should have been free rather than ending up with 26k of debt which will never be paid off before I retire. If it’s a mickey mouse degree in some silly subject then it should be chargeable.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"education has never been free as all the tax payers pay for it .... BUT ......

I think it should be much more difficult to get into higher education and then it should be free.....

I live in a uni town and the students are some of the most idiotic people I’ve met. Most are American and have gotten into such a brilliant uni because they can afford it"

That's a good thing surely ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't think anything should be free.

We should all have to work for what we want.

Agreed.

I always have

So should we all pay for our children’s education? I live pay check to pay check. I’m unsure I’d be able to afford to pay for my children’s education.

But then maybe I can’t afford to have children? (Whooooole different debate)"

My parents didn't pay for mine.

I started work at 16 (well 14 if you include Saturday jobs) and have paid for myself ever since

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

So I agree that education should be free. However, if I attend uni say three or four times, for different courses each time; should there start to be a charge? I can’t quite remember but I’m pretty sure I can go to college for free, but on my fourth go at it (for different courses) I would need to pay fees (I could be totally making that up)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Absolutely yes!!

I wasted my time at school, leaving with very little. But I grew up, decided I wanted to do it properly and at 47, am in my 4th year of a P/T BA with Open Uni, while I work full-time. But it's all paid for on a student loan and while I try not to worry about the overall cost, I do feel a little cheated that University education in Wales and Scotland is free

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By *nabelle21Woman
over a year ago

B38

I'm not saying people should t work for what they have, just give them the tools for it and don't set them off on that journey with a massive debt or make them indebted for the rest of their career.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Knowledge is power. Traditionally learning was the preserve of the elite used to preserve and propagate their privileged position over the majority within their own bloodlines.

Any country that's brave enough to challenge that by providing free access to all levels of education is a progressive society.

Fair play Scotland.....but still want Ireland to win tomorrow

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I'm not saying people should t work for what they have, just give them the tools for it and don't set them off on that journey with a massive debt or make them indebted for the rest of their career."

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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago

Yes it should be free. We’re training them for the jobs of the future but saddling them with a tax for most of their working lives.

The fees are astronomical and unless you’re very well off or on benefits, you’re absolutely screwed. Middle earners pay.

The Government want to have the benefits of the skills that people will acquire but don’t want to fund it. Surprise, surprise.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Agree with the above regarding taxes, but there should be a "graduate tax".

If you earn more because of your education, then you should pay a little bit more in tax compared to those who worked their way to the top despite their lack of education.

How would that work for nurses, for example. They cannot work as a nurse unless they qualify/ graduate. They can never work their way up..."

By setting an income threshold against what can be repaid at what rate.

Nurses are hardly big earners compared to bankers...

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By *nabelle21Woman
over a year ago

B38

"Should it be free for everyone?

I’m lucky to live in Scotland where university is free for me if I wished to attend (which I do, at some point).

Thinking about I could go for a marginal tax rate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Knowledge is power. Traditionally learning was the preserve of the elite used to preserve and propagate their privileged position over the majority within their own bloodlines.

Any country that's brave enough to challenge that by providing free access to all levels of education is a progressive society.

Fair play Scotland.....but still want Ireland to win tomorrow

But who is providing the money for the free access?

I don't have children, I've Never claimed benefits of any sort and I've always paid my way, my taxes and my private rent.

I'm not entitled to anything free.

I resent paying for all these freebies people get for having children they can't afford.

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By *nabelle21Woman
over a year ago

B38

"I think that education should be free in principle but if your educatin leads to a higher income, taxation should reflect that.

So if you are University educated and are better employed as a result, you should contribute more in tax than someone who started at the bottom and worked their way up.

So if me and you had the same job but I started straight out of uni whereas you had been there for a number of years building yourself to the same level, I should pay more? Or have I got that wrong

Good point

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By *uke olovingmanMan
over a year ago

Gravesend

I think it should be free.. otherwise we are committed to importing educated talented people from Abroad when we could use more homegrown engineers scientists etc

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By *oxy_minxWoman
over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen

"Should it be free for everyone?

I’m lucky to live in Scotland where university is free for me if I wished to attend (which I do, at some point). "

And people take the piss! I know someone who must have wasted a good few thousands and then dropped out! Too fucking easy in my opinion and a waste of our money if it is actually ours in the first place

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By *anda and CatCouple
over a year ago

Yes and no. I think university education should be subsidised by how beneficial it will be to society. Nurses, doctors, medical professions in general. Scientific studies. Qualifications that are an actual benefit to society. There is too much emphasis on university education, everybody has to be university educated. So you get people going to university to study things that are going to be of no benefit whatsoever eg your media courses (only an example there are more) being a "YouTuber" is actually a massive ambition for many studying media! People go to university to pass the time. Supermarkets are full of degree educated shop floor staff who can't find work to match there qualifications. They will never repay their loan in full so in effect the "non quals" are the ones being subsidised. The people that actually gain qualifications that will enable them to have a long and fulfilled career are the ones that pay the most.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Knowledge is power. Traditionally learning was the preserve of the elite used to preserve and propagate their privileged position over the majority within their own bloodlines.

Any country that's brave enough to challenge that by providing free access to all levels of education is a progressive society.

Fair play Scotland.....but still want Ireland to win tomorrow

But who is providing the money for the free access?

I don't have children, I've Never claimed benefits of any sort and I've always paid my way, my taxes and my private rent.

I'm not entitled to anything free.

I resent paying for all these freebies people get for having children they can't afford."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes and no. I think university education should be subsidised by how beneficial it will be to society. Nurses, doctors, medical professions in general. Scientific studies. Qualifications that are an actual benefit to society. There is too much emphasis on university education, everybody has to be university educated. So you get people going to university to study things that are going to be of no benefit whatsoever eg your media courses (only an example there are more) being a "YouTuber" is actually a massive ambition for many studying media! People go to university to pass the time. Supermarkets are full of degree educated shop floor staff who can't find work to match there qualifications. They will never repay their loan in full so in effect the "non quals" are the ones being subsidised. The people that actually gain qualifications that will enable them to have a long and fulfilled career are the ones that pay the most."

exactly!

I don't want to pay for someone else's offspring to study Media FFS

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Agree with the above regarding taxes, but there should be a "graduate tax".

If you earn more because of your education, then you should pay a little bit more in tax compared to those who worked their way to the top despite their lack of education.

How would that work for nurses, for example. They cannot work as a nurse unless they qualify/ graduate. They can never work their way up...

By setting an income threshold against what can be repaid at what rate.

Nurses are hardly big earners compared to bankers..."

And depends on what you define as bankers though. A majority of bank staff will earn less than £22-23k but get same abuse as merchant bankers as media lumped together

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By *ristolcouple21Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

I agree. Health and social care related education should be free or heavily subsidised. Student Nurses (in England) for example pay tuition fees of £9000 per academic year to study, half of that year is spend in a placement setting working for free. To then qualify and start on a fairly low salary for the level of responsibility for the job. I know no one is forced into becoming a nurse however, where would we be without them!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If your teaching then yes

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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago

It’s the same for teachers 9250 tuition fees, loan on top of that and they have placements. It could be said of a few courses I think.

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By *nabelle21Woman
over a year ago

B38

exactly!

I don't want to pay for someone else's offspring to study Media FFS"

What if it were your children and you'd always worked hard but couldn't afford uni for them. Should they not have the right to pursue their dreams?

What should thay do?

Should they have repay a loan if things don't pan out (as happens in life) and you work in a supermarket on crap wages.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Should it be free for everyone?

I’m lucky to live in Scotland where university is free for me if I wished to attend (which I do, at some point).

Thinking about I could go for a marginal tax rate. "

If graduate earns £20k the difference is around £50 per year at 1%. At £30k its about £250 per year. Further up obviously more cost.

The marginal tax application can work fairly easily as demonstrated in Scotland. Higher tax rate payers have additional % rate vs rest of UK, and going forward will have different bandings too. All managed by a letter applied in tax code on basis of geography.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

exactly!

I don't want to pay for someone else's offspring to study Media FFS

What if it were your children and you'd always worked hard but couldn't afford uni for them. Should they not have the right to pursue their dreams?

What should thay do?

Should they have repay a loan if things don't pan out (as happens in life) and you work in a supermarket on crap wages. "

But you're missing the point.

I don't have children.

I can't afford them.

Why should I pay high taxes on the little money I earn for others to have free stuff?

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By *loswingersCouple
over a year ago

Gloucester

No it shouldn’t be free , and the fact that it is in Scotland is crazy . I wonder what % of university students go on to finish their courses and then actually go on to work in that field ?

In the meantime there are plenty of people who go to work , study while working in the field they work in , get qualified and they cost us nothing .

We have an nhs service that’s stretched to the bone , no money for those who really need it and yet money is found for students who rarely pay back the money they borrow , or get years of costly education for free .

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By *ristolcouple21Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

It’s the same for teachers 9250 tuition fees, loan on top of that and they have placements. It could be said of a few courses I think. "

I didn’t think about teachers. But yes! They should also have free/subsidised courses.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"education has never been free as all the tax payers pay for it .... BUT ......

I think it should be much more difficult to get into higher education and then it should be free.....

I live in a uni town and the students are some of the most idiotic people I’ve met. Most are American and have gotten into such a brilliant uni because they can afford it"

That's a slightly different issue.

Universities charge foreign students full whack and can use the profits to keep good facilities etc.

Do I believe university should be free in this country?

Yes.

It encourages social mobility and means that universities can choose candidates on academic merit (at the moment, academically able kids from pooer backgrounds are put off applying, so they have the places to take the less able from more affluent backgrounds)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No it shouldn’t be free , and the fact that it is in Scotland is crazy . I wonder what % of university students go on to finish their courses and then actually go on to work in that field ?

In the meantime there are plenty of people who go to work , study while working in the field they work in , get qualified and they cost us nothing .

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By *yes146Man
over a year ago

London

Education should be free for those that want to study and learn. Never too late.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"No it shouldn’t be free , and the fact that it is in Scotland is crazy . I wonder what % of university students go on to finish their courses and then actually go on to work in that field ?

In the meantime there are plenty of people who go to work , study while working in the field they work in , get qualified and they cost us nothing .

What about intellectual capital?

Also; there's plenty of money, it's just where it ends up.

The Conservatives used the magic money tree to find £10billion to buy off the DUP with apparent ease.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

[Removed by poster at 08/02/19 22:36:18]

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By *anda and CatCouple
over a year ago

What if it were your children and you'd always worked hard but couldn't afford uni for them. Should they not have the right to pursue their dreams?

What should thay do?

Should they have repay a loan if things don't pan out (as happens in life) and you work in a supermarket on crap wages. "

My point exactly, if things don't pan out because they chose to do a course that is, well, fuck it let's say it, a shit non qual, pie in the sky, let's piss up 3 years of our life course and they end up working in a minimum wage job. Well, they won't pay a penny of it back because they won't earn enough!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

All interesting points

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By *nabelle21Woman
over a year ago

B38

exactly!

I don't want to pay for someone else's offspring to study Media FFS

What if it were your children and you'd always worked hard but couldn't afford uni for them. Should they not have the right to pursue their dreams?

What should thay do?

Should they have repay a loan if things don't pan out (as happens in life) and you work in a supermarket on crap wages.

But you're missing the point.

I don't have children.

I can't afford them.

Why should I pay high taxes on the little money I earn for others to have free stuff?

I think education is a fundamental right. For me it may not be my children who benefit from free uni education but maybe I have a relative who may someone I want to see do well.

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By *loswingersCouple
over a year ago

Gloucester

"No it shouldn’t be free , and the fact that it is in Scotland is crazy . I wonder what % of university students go on to finish their courses and then actually go on to work in that field ?

In the meantime there are plenty of people who go to work , study while working in the field they work in , get qualified and they cost us nothing .

What about intellectual capital?

Also; there's plenty of money, it's just where it ends up.

The Conservatives used the magic money tree to find £10billion to buy off the DUP with apparent ease."

There really isn’t plenty of money , I forget how many trillions of pounds we owe .

The tories had no choice other than to find that money or they wouldn’t be in power as I write .

Do you realise how fucked we would be if every 17 year old decided to go to uni for free for four years ? Not just fucked , but proper fucked !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Knowledge is power. Traditionally learning was the preserve of the elite used to preserve and propagate their privileged position over the majority within their own bloodlines.

Any country that's brave enough to challenge that by providing free access to all levels of education is a progressive society.

Fair play Scotland.....but still want Ireland to win tomorrow

But who is providing the money for the free access?

I don't have children, I've Never claimed benefits of any sort and I've always paid my way, my taxes and my private rent.

I'm not entitled to anything free.

I resent paying for all these freebies people get for having children they can't afford."

Ideally there should be universal aptitude testing throughout primary and secondary education to avoid people being trained / educated in what they are not suited to. In Germany they recognise and value the importance and status of trade apprenticeships as well as university degrees.

A lot of good ideas expressed already about tax rates of educated higher earners amongst other good points. I think as societies ( regardless of having kids or not, as I dont ) we should want to improve that society. Most developed countries have over sized goverments, assemblies, bureaucratic civil services. In thid hypothetical 'ideal societies' these exchecker black holes would be made efficient the massive savings could be spent on things like affordable housing, capable health services and goal focused free education for those dedecated to learning.

Now that's all idealistic on my part and I know human nature, pack mentalities, class systems and corruption etc gets in the way of that being a reality...but maybe some day before we are sucked too close to the sun and burn up humanity will grow up

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Knowledge is power. Traditionally learning was the preserve of the elite used to preserve and propagate their privileged position over the majority within their own bloodlines.

Any country that's brave enough to challenge that by providing free access to all levels of education is a progressive society.

Fair play Scotland.....but still want Ireland to win tomorrow

But who is providing the money for the free access?

I don't have children, I've Never claimed benefits of any sort and I've always paid my way, my taxes and my private rent.

I'm not entitled to anything free.

I resent paying for all these freebies people get for having children they can't afford."

I resent having a terrible marriage which now means i’m Single parenting a child that I can just about afford. As long as I don’t need to eat and stuff!

Honestly the total horror of peoples life plans not going the way they wish

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By *loswingersCouple
over a year ago

Gloucester

What if it were your children and you'd always worked hard but couldn't afford uni for them. Should they not have the right to pursue their dreams?

What should thay do?

Should they have repay a loan if things don't pan out (as happens in life) and you work in a supermarket on crap wages.

And in over half the cases that’s exactly what happens .

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

Just as a general point: intellectual capital is the quantifiable notion that a nation with a better educated body of the academically able does better in terms of innovation, invention, research etc, which increases the net worth of a country and its academic institutions.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"No it shouldn’t be free , and the fact that it is in Scotland is crazy . I wonder what % of university students go on to finish their courses and then actually go on to work in that field ?

In the meantime there are plenty of people who go to work , study while working in the field they work in , get qualified and they cost us nothing .

What about intellectual capital?

Also; there's plenty of money, it's just where it ends up.

The Conservatives used the magic money tree to find £10billion to buy off the DUP with apparent ease.

There really isn’t plenty of money , I forget how many trillions of pounds we owe .

The tories had no choice other than to find that money or they wouldn’t be in power as I write .

Do you realise how fucked we would be if every 17 year old decided to go to uni for free for four years ? Not just fucked , but proper fucked ! "

Fucked insomuch as it would cost us a darn sight less than buying the DUP for 5 years?

There is plenty of money. It is just poorly distributed.

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By *anda and CatCouple
over a year ago

What if it were your children and you'd always worked hard but couldn't afford uni for them. Should they not have the right to pursue their dreams?

What should thay do?

Should they have repay a loan if things don't pan out (as happens in life) and you work in a supermarket on crap wages.

And to add, I am uneducated, I am a low skilled tradesman however I do run my own business and do employ staff. I refuse to take on anyone that has no hands on experience other than apprentices. I have employed those that have theoretical education and they don't last 2 minutes. I also have children. One child decided against university and is working hard after she was dragged to the job centre on her 18th birthday to experience the humiliation of standing in the dole line. The other is currently traveling the world on her gap year before she goes to university (or maybe not) and she has and will fund it all herself

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes, I think that education should be free.

The bigger picture is that the more educated the population, the better it is for everyone as a whole. It makes us as a country less reliant on importing labour, technical staff and experts.

Media may not be the best degree going but for some (although not all), the university experience along with the discipline that it can instil (if you are so inclined to take advantage of it) can be applied throughout life. Critical thinking appears to be a useless A level and yet is sought of by many red brick unis!

Decades ago the UK led the field in certain scientific aspects, IVF for one. Where are we now?

Most European countries have free or subsidised further education but once again Britain slavishly follows the U.S. by making it all about the money and Universities say that they are strapped for cash because most students will never earn enough to repay their loans!

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By *HaRiFMan
over a year ago

Beyond the shadows.

"Should it be free for everyone?

I’m lucky to live in Scotland where university is free for me if I wished to attend (which I do, at some point). "

I think yes it should be. I was lucky enough to be fall under the old grant scheme. I think student loans came in and grants stopped the year I left uni.

I know how much you pay back is down to how much earn, but still its the idea of the loan hanging over your head that I find off putting.

If they needed to raise the finances then I think graduate tax's might have been a better way to go.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"Yes, I think that education should be free.

The bigger picture is that the more educated the population, the better it is for everyone as a whole. It makes us as a country less reliant on importing labour, technical staff and experts.

Decades ago the UK led the field in certain scientific aspects, IVF for one. Where are we now?

I suspect that were education free, some of the less academic courses would vanish because the more academic ones would have a greater pool of suitable applicants.

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By *loswingersCouple
over a year ago

Gloucester

"No it shouldn’t be free , and the fact that it is in Scotland is crazy . I wonder what % of university students go on to finish their courses and then actually go on to work in that field ?

In the meantime there are plenty of people who go to work , study while working in the field they work in , get qualified and they cost us nothing .

What about intellectual capital?

Also; there's plenty of money, it's just where it ends up.

The Conservatives used the magic money tree to find £10billion to buy off the DUP with apparent ease.

There really isn’t plenty of money , I forget how many trillions of pounds we owe .

The tories had no choice other than to find that money or they wouldn’t be in power as I write .

Do you realise how fucked we would be if every 17 year old decided to go to uni for free for four years ? Not just fucked , but proper fucked !

Fucked insomuch as it would cost us a darn sight less than buying the DUP for 5 years?

There is plenty of money. It is just poorly distributed."

No , sorry but you are way off !

Currently about 27% of 18 year olds go on to further education . If that was 100% the money they paid the dup would be like small change .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No it shouldn’t be free , and the fact that it is in Scotland is crazy . I wonder what % of university students go on to finish their courses and then actually go on to work in that field ?

In the meantime there are plenty of people who go to work , study while working in the field they work in , get qualified and they cost us nothing .

It's only free in Scotland if you are Scottish.

My son is studying in Scotland and at £12,00 a year his fees are not free.

I pay towards it.

However I don't believe that Uni education should be free..... It should be accessible to those who wish to study, but not free. The cost of kids taking places but not finishing the courses are bad enough now, how much subsidy would be wasted by people dropping out, because they don't see the financial impact of it.

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By *nabelle21Woman
over a year ago

B38

What if it were your children and you'd always worked hard but couldn't afford uni for them. Should they not have the right to pursue their dreams?

What should thay do?

Should they have repay a loan if things don't pan out (as happens in life) and you work in a supermarket on crap wages.

I think if you don't earn enough then you dont pay for what ever reason that may be...be it because they pissed their education up the wall or because of life circumstances. I don't mind paying my tiny tiny bit

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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago

"No it shouldn’t be free , and the fact that it is in Scotland is crazy . I wonder what % of university students go on to finish their courses and then actually go on to work in that field ?

In the meantime there are plenty of people who go to work , study while working in the field they work in , get qualified and they cost us nothing .

What about intellectual capital?

Also; there's plenty of money, it's just where it ends up.

The Conservatives used the magic money tree to find £10billion to buy off the DUP with apparent ease.

There really isn’t plenty of money , I forget how many trillions of pounds we owe .

The tories had no choice other than to find that money or they wouldn’t be in power as I write .

Do you realise how fucked we would be if every 17 year old decided to go to uni for free for four years ? Not just fucked , but proper fucked ! "

That’s the point though ... not every 17 year old wants to. The youth of today are damned if they do and damed if they don’t. They’re young layabouts with no ambition or they’re being outrageously greedy by being aspirational but wanting education for free.

We currently say every 16-18 year old has to be in work or full time education. We fund that readily enough. Uni Students are screwed over, you or I could have a fixed rate loan for things we want. Students loan rate are huge and rising and not fixed.

We are penalising them for wanting to do well. They are bringing skills into the work place that are required. People shouldn’t profit off that and at 9250 per student per year with very little time actually spent in uni, not the mention the loan costs, I think someone somewhere is making a huge profit on these young people. I wonder how that sits with the workers contributing their taxes? That money is going somewhere. I have never claimed benefits, I have always worked and paid my way and I take full responsibility for my dependents. Education is not just for the person that becomes qualified, it is for the benefit of many.

Maybe those with huge student debts should withdraw their knowledge and experience from the workplace? It would be interesting to see how the tax payers would respond to that. I find the argument of not wanting to pay for others children extremely silly. Their knowledge and skills may well keep you alive one day.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"No it shouldn’t be free , and the fact that it is in Scotland is crazy . I wonder what % of university students go on to finish their courses and then actually go on to work in that field ?

In the meantime there are plenty of people who go to work , study while working in the field they work in , get qualified and they cost us nothing .

What about intellectual capital?

Also; there's plenty of money, it's just where it ends up.

The Conservatives used the magic money tree to find £10billion to buy off the DUP with apparent ease.

There really isn’t plenty of money , I forget how many trillions of pounds we owe .

The tories had no choice other than to find that money or they wouldn’t be in power as I write .

Do you realise how fucked we would be if every 17 year old decided to go to uni for free for four years ? Not just fucked , but proper fucked !

Fucked insomuch as it would cost us a darn sight less than buying the DUP for 5 years?

There is plenty of money. It is just poorly distributed.

No , sorry but you are way off !

Currently about 27% of 18 year olds go on to further education . If that was 100% the money they paid the dup would be like small change .

According to who?

We paid the DUP 10Billion!

Don't forget that the university educated have a net benefit to society after they qualify both in terms of tax take and intellectual capital.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

Also to add:

Why would 100%go to uni? The point of university is that it's academically selective.

By abolishing fees, all we are doing is taking the most able 27% as opposed to the able who are also able to afford the fees.

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By *nabelle21Woman
over a year ago

B38

"Knowledge is power. Traditionally learning was the preserve of the elite used to preserve and propagate their privileged position over the majority within their own bloodlines.

Any country that's brave enough to challenge that by providing free access to all levels of education is a progressive society.

Fair play Scotland.....but still want Ireland to win tomorrow

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Also to add:

Why would 100%go to uni? The point of university is that it's academically selective.

By abolishing fees, all we are doing is taking the most able 27% as opposed to the able who are also able to afford the fees."

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By *nabelle21Woman
over a year ago

B38

"Also to add:

Why would 100%go to uni? The point of university is that it's academically selective.

By abolishing fees, all we are doing is taking the most able 27% as opposed to the able who are also able to afford the fees."

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By *loswingersCouple
over a year ago

Gloucester

"No it shouldn’t be free , and the fact that it is in Scotland is crazy . I wonder what % of university students go on to finish their courses and then actually go on to work in that field ?

In the meantime there are plenty of people who go to work , study while working in the field they work in , get qualified and they cost us nothing .

What about intellectual capital?

Also; there's plenty of money, it's just where it ends up.

The Conservatives used the magic money tree to find £10billion to buy off the DUP with apparent ease.

There really isn’t plenty of money , I forget how many trillions of pounds we owe .

The tories had no choice other than to find that money or they wouldn’t be in power as I write .

Do you realise how fucked we would be if every 17 year old decided to go to uni for free for four years ? Not just fucked , but proper fucked !

Fucked insomuch as it would cost us a darn sight less than buying the DUP for 5 years?

There is plenty of money. It is just poorly distributed.

No , sorry but you are way off !

Currently about 27% of 18 year olds go on to further education . If that was 100% the money they paid the dup would be like small change .

According to who?

We paid the DUP 10Billion!

Don't forget that the university educated have a net benefit to society after they qualify both in terms of tax take and intellectual capital."

We would be talking about three million who don’t currently go , at £9,500 a year for four years which is about £115 billion !

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By *loswingersCouple
over a year ago

Gloucester

"Also to add:

Why would 100%go to uni? The point of university is that it's academically selective.

By abolishing fees, all we are doing is taking the most able 27% as opposed to the able who are also able to afford the fees."

Well if it was free , more would want to go

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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago

"Also to add:

Why would 100%go to uni? The point of university is that it's academically selective.

By abolishing fees, all we are doing is taking the most able 27% as opposed to the able who are also able to afford the fees.

Well if it was free , more would want to go "

I thought numbers were higher now than they were when it was free?

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By *loswingersCouple
over a year ago

Gloucester

"Also to add:

Why would 100%go to uni? The point of university is that it's academically selective.

By abolishing fees, all we are doing is taking the most able 27% as opposed to the able who are also able to afford the fees.

Well if it was free , more would want to go

I thought numbers were higher now than they were when it was free? "

If you include the up to 30 year olds attending it is

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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago

"Also to add:

Why would 100%go to uni? The point of university is that it's academically selective.

By abolishing fees, all we are doing is taking the most able 27% as opposed to the able who are also able to afford the fees.

Well if it was free , more would want to go

I thought numbers were higher now than they were when it was free?

If you include the up to 30 year olds attending it is

Ahh I see

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By *nabelle21Woman
over a year ago

B38

"Absolutely yes!!

That's great that you have furthered your education and good luck with it. I can imagine that the debt would be a worry!

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"Also to add:

Why would 100%go to uni? The point of university is that it's academically selective.

By abolishing fees, all we are doing is taking the most able 27% as opposed to the able who are also able to afford the fees.

Well if it was free , more would want to go "

So what? They only have a finite number of places, so competition would increase.

You'd probably see an end to these unconditional offers that seem to be prevalent now.

For example: when I went to uni, my offer from the uni I went to was B (biology) B (chemistry) C (history). I got b, c, a, but they let me in on points. If there had been more competition, maybe my place would have gone to someone more academically able.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No it shouldn’t be free , and the fact that it is in Scotland is crazy . I wonder what % of university students go on to finish their courses and then actually go on to work in that field ?

In the meantime there are plenty of people who go to work , study while working in the field they work in , get qualified and they cost us nothing .

What about intellectual capital?

Also; there's plenty of money, it's just where it ends up.

The Conservatives used the magic money tree to find £10billion to buy off the DUP with apparent ease.

There really isn’t plenty of money , I forget how many trillions of pounds we owe .

The tories had no choice other than to find that money or they wouldn’t be in power as I write .

Do you realise how fucked we would be if every 17 year old decided to go to uni for free for four years ? Not just fucked , but proper fucked !

Fucked insomuch as it would cost us a darn sight less than buying the DUP for 5 years?

There is plenty of money. It is just poorly distributed.

No , sorry but you are way off !

Currently about 27% of 18 year olds go on to further education . If that was 100% the money they paid the dup would be like small change .

According to who?

We paid the DUP 10Billion!

Don't forget that the university educated have a net benefit to society after they qualify both in terms of tax take and intellectual capital."

Point of order Mr Speaker.

£1Bn, not £10Bn of additional investment was secured for Northern Ireland in the deal.

The DUP didn't get the money, Northern Ireland did.

If your MP was to grab the opportunity to secure extra funding for your region in exchange for supporting a government they agreed with on most issues anyway, you'd think they were a good egg.

And finally, the DUP have nothing to do with the issue of should education be funded.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Knowledge is power. Traditionally learning was the preserve of the elite used to preserve and propagate their privileged position over the majority within their own bloodlines.

Any country that's brave enough to challenge that by providing free access to all levels of education is a progressive society.

Fair play Scotland.....but still want Ireland to win tomorrow

But who is providing the money for the free access?

I don't have children, I've Never claimed benefits of any sort and I've always paid my way, my taxes and my private rent.

I'm not entitled to anything free.

I resent paying for all these freebies people get for having children they can't afford.

I resent having a terrible marriage which now means i’m Single parenting a child that I can just about afford. As long as I don’t need to eat and stuff!

Honestly the total horror of peoples life plans not going the way they wish

I'm sorry for your marriage problems but I fail to see why I should pay for them.

I also have problems that aren't recognised worthy enough to get any freebies.

I work for everything I have - and every month the taxman takes a lot if it.

I'm not qualified to argue about politics - this thread seems to have brought out the usual suspects

I just feel that it's people like me that have to pay for everyone else.

I don't get anything or ask for it and struggle financially.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"No it shouldn’t be free , and the fact that it is in Scotland is crazy . I wonder what % of university students go on to finish their courses and then actually go on to work in that field ?

In the meantime there are plenty of people who go to work , study while working in the field they work in , get qualified and they cost us nothing .

What about intellectual capital?

Also; there's plenty of money, it's just where it ends up.

The Conservatives used the magic money tree to find £10billion to buy off the DUP with apparent ease.

There really isn’t plenty of money , I forget how many trillions of pounds we owe .

The tories had no choice other than to find that money or they wouldn’t be in power as I write .

Do you realise how fucked we would be if every 17 year old decided to go to uni for free for four years ? Not just fucked , but proper fucked !

Fucked insomuch as it would cost us a darn sight less than buying the DUP for 5 years?

There is plenty of money. It is just poorly distributed.

No , sorry but you are way off !

Currently about 27% of 18 year olds go on to further education . If that was 100% the money they paid the dup would be like small change .

According to who?

We paid the DUP 10Billion!

Don't forget that the university educated have a net benefit to society after they qualify both in terms of tax take and intellectual capital.

Point of order Mr Speaker.

£1Bn, not £10Bn of additional investment was secured for Northern Ireland in the deal.

The DUP didn't get the money, Northern Ireland did.

If your MP was to grab the opportunity to secure extra funding for your region in exchange for supporting a government they agreed with on most issues anyway, you'd think they were a good egg.

And finally, the DUP have nothing to do with the issue of should education be funded.

It was 10, not 1.

Also; way to miss the point.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Also to add:

Why would 100%go to uni? The point of university is that it's academically selective.

By abolishing fees, all we are doing is taking the most able 27% as opposed to the able who are also able to afford the fees.

Well if it was free , more would want to go "

I'm originally from Cuba,I've been in UK for 9 years...Education and healthcare in my country are for free...While we do have a very bad economy,we have also very good doctors and teachers...

The education in Cuba is for free but I would say is more rigorous than in here...The teachers crammed all the knowledge they could in a 45 minutes class,and then they give you a crazy amount of homework and assignments each week...So IF you really want to have a future,you will study hard, otherwise you get expelled

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No it shouldn’t be free , and the fact that it is in Scotland is crazy . I wonder what % of university students go on to finish their courses and then actually go on to work in that field ?

In the meantime there are plenty of people who go to work , study while working in the field they work in , get qualified and they cost us nothing .

What about intellectual capital?

Also; there's plenty of money, it's just where it ends up.

The Conservatives used the magic money tree to find £10billion to buy off the DUP with apparent ease.

There really isn’t plenty of money , I forget how many trillions of pounds we owe .

The tories had no choice other than to find that money or they wouldn’t be in power as I write .

Do you realise how fucked we would be if every 17 year old decided to go to uni for free for four years ? Not just fucked , but proper fucked !

Fucked insomuch as it would cost us a darn sight less than buying the DUP for 5 years?

There is plenty of money. It is just poorly distributed.

No , sorry but you are way off !

Currently about 27% of 18 year olds go on to further education . If that was 100% the money they paid the dup would be like small change .

According to who?

We paid the DUP 10Billion!

Don't forget that the university educated have a net benefit to society after they qualify both in terms of tax take and intellectual capital.

Point of order Mr Speaker.

£1Bn, not £10Bn of additional investment was secured for Northern Ireland in the deal.

The DUP didn't get the money, Northern Ireland did.

If your MP was to grab the opportunity to secure extra

funding for your region in exchange for supporting a government they agreed with on most issues anyway, you'd think they were a good egg.

And finally, the DUP have nothing to do with the issue of should education be funded.

It was 10, not 1.

Also; way to miss the point."

A google search will reveal:

The party negotiated an extra £1bn in spending for Northern Ireland over 2018 and 2019. The deal, however, specified that the DUP is not tied-in to supporting the government on every matter.

And I didn't bring the DUP up in the first place.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Knowledge shouldn't have a price...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No it shouldn’t be free , and the fact that it is in Scotland is crazy . I wonder what % of university students go on to finish their courses and then actually go on to work in that field ?

In the meantime there are plenty of people who go to work , study while working in the field they work in , get qualified and they cost us nothing .

I got the whole lot for free! No loans, no fees, nothing - earning a packet now as well! Thanks for your help, you can sleep easy knowing your taxes went to a good cause

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"No it shouldn’t be free , and the fact that it is in Scotland is crazy . I wonder what % of university students go on to finish their courses and then actually go on to work in that field ?

In the meantime there are plenty of people who go to work , study while working in the field they work in , get qualified and they cost us nothing .

What about intellectual capital?

Also; there's plenty of money, it's just where it ends up.

The Conservatives used the magic money tree to find £10billion to buy off the DUP with apparent ease.

There really isn’t plenty of money , I forget how many trillions of pounds we owe .

The tories had no choice other than to find that money or they wouldn’t be in power as I write .

Do you realise how fucked we would be if every 17 year old decided to go to uni for free for four years ? Not just fucked , but proper fucked !

Fucked insomuch as it would cost us a darn sight less than buying the DUP for 5 years?

There is plenty of money. It is just poorly distributed.

No , sorry but you are way off !

Currently about 27% of 18 year olds go on to further education . If that was 100% the money they paid the dup would be like small change .

According to who?

We paid the DUP 10Billion!

Don't forget that the university educated have a net benefit to society after they qualify both in terms of tax take and intellectual capital.

Point of order Mr Speaker.

£1Bn, not £10Bn of additional investment was secured for Northern Ireland in the deal.

The DUP didn't get the money, Northern Ireland did.

If your MP was to grab the opportunity to secure extra

funding for your region in exchange for supporting a government they agreed with on most issues anyway, you'd think they were a good egg.

And finally, the DUP have nothing to do with the issue of should education be funded.

It was 10, not 1.

Also; way to miss the point.

A google search will reveal:

The party negotiated an extra £1bn in spending for Northern Ireland over 2018 and 2019. The deal, however, specified that the DUP is not tied-in to supporting the government on every matter.

And I didn't bring the DUP up in the first place.

You've still missed the point spectacularly.

The point is, that there's no shortage of money, it's just a question of where it's being distributed.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"No it shouldn’t be free , and the fact that it is in Scotland is crazy . I wonder what % of university students go on to finish their courses and then actually go on to work in that field ?

In the meantime there are plenty of people who go to work , study while working in the field they work in , get qualified and they cost us nothing .

I got the whole lot for free! No loans, no fees, nothing - earning a packet now as well! Thanks for your help, you can sleep easy knowing your taxes went to a good cause

The point is, you should now be paying a higher rate of income tax, which can be used to fund study, and so the cycle continues.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No it shouldn’t be free , and the fact that it is in Scotland is crazy . I wonder what % of university students go on to finish their courses and then actually go on to work in that field ?

In the meantime there are plenty of people who go to work , study while working in the field they work in , get qualified and they cost us nothing .

What about intellectual capital?

Also; there's plenty of money, it's just where it ends up.

The Conservatives used the magic money tree to find £10billion to buy off the DUP with apparent ease.

There really isn’t plenty of money , I forget how many trillions of pounds we owe .

The tories had no choice other than to find that money or they wouldn’t be in power as I write .

Do you realise how fucked we would be if every 17 year old decided to go to uni for free for four years ? Not just fucked , but proper fucked !

Fucked insomuch as it would cost us a darn sight less than buying the DUP for 5 years?

There is plenty of money. It is just poorly distributed.

No , sorry but you are way off !

Currently about 27% of 18 year olds go on to further education . If that was 100% the money they paid the dup would be like small change .

According to who?

We paid the DUP 10Billion!

Don't forget that the university educated have a net benefit to society after they qualify both in terms of tax take and intellectual capital.

Point of order Mr Speaker.

£1Bn, not £10Bn of additional investment was secured for Northern Ireland in the deal.

The DUP didn't get the money, Northern Ireland did.

If your MP was to grab the opportunity to secure extra

funding for your region in exchange for supporting a government they agreed with on most issues anyway, you'd think they were a good egg.

And finally, the DUP have nothing to do with the issue of should education be funded.

It was 10, not 1.

Also; way to miss the point.

A google search will reveal:

The party negotiated an extra £1bn in spending for Northern Ireland over 2018 and 2019. The deal, however, specified that the DUP is not tied-in to supporting the government on every matter.

And I didn't bring the DUP up in the first place.

You've still missed the point spectacularly.

The point is, that there's no shortage of money, it's just a question of where it's being distributed."

I was addressing the inaccuracy of the statement.

I gave my views on funding of education earlier.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it should be free but I'm a social liberal, so bound to be called a leftist snowflake

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"No it shouldn’t be free , and the fact that it is in Scotland is crazy . I wonder what % of university students go on to finish their courses and then actually go on to work in that field ?

In the meantime there are plenty of people who go to work , study while working in the field they work in , get qualified and they cost us nothing .

What about intellectual capital?

Also; there's plenty of money, it's just where it ends up.

The Conservatives used the magic money tree to find £10billion to buy off the DUP with apparent ease.

There really isn’t plenty of money , I forget how many trillions of pounds we owe .

The tories had no choice other than to find that money or they wouldn’t be in power as I write .

Do you realise how fucked we would be if every 17 year old decided to go to uni for free for four years ? Not just fucked , but proper fucked !

Fucked insomuch as it would cost us a darn sight less than buying the DUP for 5 years?

There is plenty of money. It is just poorly distributed.

No , sorry but you are way off !

Currently about 27% of 18 year olds go on to further education . If that was 100% the money they paid the dup would be like small change .

According to who?

We paid the DUP 10Billion!

Don't forget that the university educated have a net benefit to society after they qualify both in terms of tax take and intellectual capital.

Point of order Mr Speaker.

£1Bn, not £10Bn of additional investment was secured for Northern Ireland in the deal.

The DUP didn't get the money, Northern Ireland did.

If your MP was to grab the opportunity to secure extra

funding for your region in exchange for supporting a government they agreed with on most issues anyway, you'd think they were a good egg.

And finally, the DUP have nothing to do with the issue of should education be funded.

It was 10, not 1.

Also; way to miss the point.

A google search will reveal:

The party negotiated an extra £1bn in spending for Northern Ireland over 2018 and 2019. The deal, however, specified that the DUP is not tied-in to supporting the government on every matter.

And I didn't bring the DUP up in the first place.

You've still missed the point spectacularly.

The point is, that there's no shortage of money, it's just a question of where it's being distributed.

I was addressing the inaccuracy of the statement.

I gave my views on funding of education earlier."

Why?

Were it 1 or 10 billion, my point remains the same.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No it shouldn’t be free , and the fact that it is in Scotland is crazy . I wonder what % of university students go on to finish their courses and then actually go on to work in that field ?

In the meantime there are plenty of people who go to work , study while working in the field they work in , get qualified and they cost us nothing .

I got the whole lot for free! No loans, no fees, nothing - earning a packet now as well! Thanks for your help, you can sleep easy knowing your taxes went to a good cause

The point is, you should now be paying a higher rate of income tax, which can be used to fund study, and so the cycle continues."

Don't tell me what I should be doing. You should think yourself lucky that your taxes enabled my gloriousness.

Christ I'm itching for a forum bust up! Bring the fucker on!

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By *egs11ABCWoman
over a year ago

Aberdeen

"I paid no tuition fees and qualified for a grant. I came out the other side owing nothing.

I'd like it to still be that way. "

Yep me too. Dont know why they ever changed it. And id love to know how they work out who gets help bow. I Was a single parent in a council house working full time and my son didn't qualify so he went the apprentiship route. My nephew got help and his father( my bro) owns his own oil company and his ex wife remarried a millionaire ????????

Having sd that my son is the more mature 30 year old in a better job so go figure x

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By *ade and VanessaCouple
over a year ago

Central Scotland

I think education up to an including degree level should be free. However, I don't agree with the push for university degrees. I think there should be more vocational placements and college courses and they shouldn't have the stigma attached to them that they do. I don't understand why a management role for a retailer should require a degree of any kind - especially when most are philosophy or psychology graduates, not business. If that's the route you see yourself taking then there should be other ways there that don't involve wasting 4 years at uni instead of being productive.

V x

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By *organ and rob zombieCouple
over a year ago

bradford

Information is available on the internet for free, you can buy it from book shops! you can prove you remember, arrange, or rearrange and quote with Oxford reference for only £9000 per annum in all good local universities! Free piece of paper saying so at the end!

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By *hoenixAdAstraWoman
over a year ago

Hiding in the shadows

My eldest was offered places at several university's, including Oxford.

He chose not to go.

He did the maths, the loans, the debt.

He would still be paying it off in his 40's.

At college he had a part time job, in HR/recruitment.

They offered him a full time position.

He's 26 now & one of the top employees in the company.

I have no idea exactly what he earns, but he bought a house at 23 & will be mortgage free by 30.