Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to Politics |
| Jump to newest |  |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"All part of the madness of Brexit. Reminds of certain nationalists in Scotland. The ones with a huge chip on their should about the British. It's not enough to be independent - the evil empire must be destroyed in the process. What??? Now that's what I call a big fat chip. I have a lot of English friends I love England to visit. Well lake district. What I can't stand is Eaton boys telling me what's good for us and not. North of England should be rioting the way Westminster treats them. Yeah bonkers. Bonkers. " | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"All part of the madness of Brexit. Reminds of certain nationalists in Scotland. The ones with a huge chip on their should about the British. It's not enough to be independent - the evil empire must be destroyed in the process. What??? Now that's what I call a big fat chip. I have a lot of English friends I love England to visit. Well lake district. What I can't stand is Eaton boys telling me what's good for us and not. North of England should be rioting the way Westminster treats them. Yeah bonkers. Bonkers. " You need to keep up. The tories are now offering free green shield stamps to the old mining communities if their labour politicians vote for mays deal.  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"All part of the madness of Brexit. Reminds of certain nationalists in Scotland. The ones with a huge chip on their should about the British. It's not enough to be independent - the evil empire must be destroyed in the process. What??? Now that's what I call a big fat chip. I have a lot of English friends I love England to visit. Well lake district. What I can't stand is Eaton boys telling me what's good for us and not. North of England should be rioting the way Westminster treats them. Yeah bonkers. Bonkers. You need to keep up. The tories are now offering free green shield stamps to the old mining communities if their labour politicians vote for mays deal. "yeah back to the good old days eh. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"All part of the madness of Brexit. Reminds of certain nationalists in Scotland. The ones with a huge chip on their should about the British. It's not enough to be independent - the evil empire must be destroyed in the process. What??? Now that's what I call a big fat chip. I have a lot of English friends I love England to visit. Well lake district. What I can't stand is Eaton boys telling me what's good for us and not. North of England should be rioting the way Westminster treats them. Yeah bonkers. Bonkers. You need to keep up. The tories are now offering free green shield stamps to the old mining communities if their labour politicians vote for mays deal. yeah back to the good old days eh. "The magic money trees are growing strong and fast, despite it being winter. There's less said about how these areas were neglected and deprived by May et al for decades, increasing the locals distress, helping to fuel a leave vote. May just seems a rather sick and pathetic individual, without shame or much consciousness, possibly  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It’s like the theory that the EU is going to become an undemocratic superstate. I’m sure all those ex eastern bloc states are going to vote for that having just escaped another superstate." Its already undemocratic. What's your take on "ever closer union" if not European federalism? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It’s like the theory that the EU is going to become an undemocratic superstate. I’m sure all those ex eastern bloc states are going to vote for that having just escaped another superstate." This is NOT a theory it is happening in front of you | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It’s like the theory that the EU is going to become an undemocratic superstate. I’m sure all those ex eastern bloc states are going to vote for that having just escaped another superstate. Its already undemocratic. What's your take on "ever closer union" if not European federalism?" You mean the thing whose full wording is “an every closer union of the peoples”? Ie is nothing to do with union of governments? The thing that nonetheless we secured a veto on, despite it not actually being of any legal significance in the first place? That thing? Or do you mean the twisted tabloid fantasy of the EU forming some kind of federal superstate? -Matt | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It’s like the theory that the EU is going to become an undemocratic superstate. I’m sure all those ex eastern bloc states are going to vote for that having just escaped another superstate.This is NOT a theory it is happening in front of you" It's definitely not happening in front of me. And, if you did some proper research into the EU rather than believing all the rubbish on Euro Superstate conspiracy sites, it wouldn't be happening in front of you either. A far better conspiracy to look into would be who's financing the sites and information sources your looking at. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It’s like the theory that the EU is going to become an undemocratic superstate. I’m sure all those ex eastern bloc states are going to vote for that having just escaped another superstate. Its already undemocratic. What's your take on "ever closer union" if not European federalism? You mean the thing whose full wording is “an every closer union of the peoples”? Ie is nothing to do with union of governments? The thing that nonetheless we secured a veto on, despite it not actually being of any legal significance in the first place? That thing? Or do you mean the twisted tabloid fantasy of the EU forming some kind of federal superstate? -Matt" We'll put. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It’s like the theory that the EU is going to become an undemocratic superstate. I’m sure all those ex eastern bloc states are going to vote for that having just escaped another superstate." But that's exactly the point. The people most likely won't have a say. If their governments have already signed up to join the EU, the EU will move forward on this without consulting the people | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Brexshit - the gift that keeps on giving. The Sunday Times today reports today that Whitehall is dusting down its evacuation plans for the Royal Family, in the event of civil unrest in London. Hurrah, hurrah, hurrah! " you are hitting the bottom of the barrel now next you will be telling us they are off to japan the savior of the eu.  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Brexshit - the gift that keeps on giving. The Sunday Times today reports today that Whitehall is dusting down its evacuation plans for the Royal Family, in the event of civil unrest in London. Hurrah, hurrah, hurrah! you are hitting the bottom of the barrel now next you will be telling us they are off to japan the savior of the eu. "Surely it would be germany, given they’re “krauts” and all  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Brexshit - the gift that keeps on giving. The Sunday Times today reports today that Whitehall is dusting down its evacuation plans for the Royal Family, in the event of civil unrest in London. Hurrah, hurrah, hurrah! " That would be remainers rioting then wouldn't it as they say the plans are there in case of a no deal brexit. Most leavers I know would be happy with a no deal brexit - happy people don't riot.
As it's remainers who don't want to leave then one can only assume it would be remainers rioting and causing civil unrest. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The legitimacy of every public institution and organisation, the EU included, ultimately comes from the ballot box. After the events of 2016, I'd have thought the truth of that was self-evident. " Try telling that to Greek lefty Yanis Varoufarkis who appeared quite angry on BBC Newsnight in the week that the EU was not addressing the democratic deficit in the EU after the UK voted to Leave. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The legitimacy of every public institution and organisation, the EU included, ultimately comes from the ballot box. After the events of 2016, I'd have thought the truth of that was self-evident. Try telling that to Greek lefty Yanis Varoufarkis who appeared quite angry on BBC Newsnight in the week that the EU was not addressing the democratic deficit in the EU after the UK voted to Leave. " Again you fail to mention in the same interview Yanis stated he was against brexit. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The legitimacy of every public institution and organisation, the EU included, ultimately comes from the ballot box. After the events of 2016, I'd have thought the truth of that was self-evident. Try telling that to Greek lefty Yanis Varoufarkis who appeared quite angry on BBC Newsnight in the week that the EU was not addressing the democratic deficit in the EU after the UK voted to Leave. Again you fail to mention in the same interview Yanis stated he was against brexit." Of course he is they will all have to start paying more. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The legitimacy of every public institution and organisation, the EU included, ultimately comes from the ballot box. After the events of 2016, I'd have thought the truth of that was self-evident. Try telling that to Greek lefty Yanis Varoufarkis who appeared quite angry on BBC Newsnight in the week that the EU was not addressing the democratic deficit in the EU after the UK voted to Leave. Again you fail to mention in the same interview Yanis stated he was against brexit.Of course he is they will all have to start paying more."  yes they will even if the UK settles the £39 billion divorce bill in full there is still going to be an estimated £10 billion black hole in the EU budget to fill after the UK leaves. The EU will either have to cut back in some areas or the remaining member states will have to pay increased membership fees. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" That would be remainers rioting then wouldn't it as they say the plans are there in case of a no deal brexit. Most leavers I know would be happy with a no deal brexit - happy people don't riot.
As it's remainers who don't want to leave then one can only assume it would be remainers rioting and causing civil unrest. "I think you are wrong to frame the contingency planning purely in political terms. Yes, there are camps on both sides of the argument for whom the political ideology is important. But they are small in number compared to the numbers who might get angry when the food runs out in the supermarket, when electricity becomes intermittent, when a whole host of unknown consequences begin to materialise. Their anger will be directed at the Establishment. They won't necessarily be pro-Brexit or anti-Brexit, just people pissed off at their lives falling to pieces. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" That would be remainers rioting then wouldn't it as they say the plans are there in case of a no deal brexit. Most leavers I know would be happy with a no deal brexit - happy people don't riot.
As it's remainers who don't want to leave then one can only assume it would be remainers rioting and causing civil unrest.
I think you are wrong to frame the contingency planning purely in political terms.
Yes, there are camps on both sides of the argument for whom the political ideology is important.
But they are small in number compared to the numbers who might get angry when the food runs out in the supermarket, when electricity becomes intermittent, when a whole host of unknown consequences begin to materialise.
Their anger will be directed at the Establishment. They won't necessarily be pro-Brexit or anti-Brexit, just people pissed off at their lives falling to pieces.
"It also assumes a no deal appeases all leavers. Some here have said they don’t like no deal. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The legitimacy of every public institution and organisation, the EU included, ultimately comes from the ballot box. After the events of 2016, I'd have thought the truth of that was self-evident. Try telling that to Greek lefty Yanis Varoufarkis who appeared quite angry on BBC Newsnight in the week that the EU was not addressing the democratic deficit in the EU after the UK voted to Leave. Again you fail to mention in the same interview Yanis stated he was against brexit.Of course he is they will all have to start paying more. yes they will even if the UK settles the £39 billion divorce bill in full there is still going to be an estimated £10 billion black hole in the EU budget to fill after the UK leaves. The EU will either have to cut back in some areas or the remaining member states will have to pay increased membership fees. "Wow you really are brutal with your heroes. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" That would be remainers rioting then wouldn't it as they say the plans are there in case of a no deal brexit. Most leavers I know would be happy with a no deal brexit - happy people don't riot.
As it's remainers who don't want to leave then one can only assume it would be remainers rioting and causing civil unrest.
I think you are wrong to frame the contingency planning purely in political terms.
Yes, there are camps on both sides of the argument for whom the political ideology is important.
But they are small in number compared to the numbers who might get angry when the food runs out in the supermarket, when electricity becomes intermittent, when a whole host of unknown consequences begin to materialise.
Their anger will be directed at the Establishment. They won't necessarily be pro-Brexit or anti-Brexit, just people pissed off at their lives falling to pieces.
"Didn't you forget the plagues of locusts? 
Yet more hysterical nonsense. I find it funny you've been brainwashed to believe this kind of crap ever has the slightest possibility of happening. If you want to wallow in self pity and the despair of project fear go ahead and fill your boots, it doesn't wash with me. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The other thing to factor in is the influence of malign foreign interference. Let's say there is a shortage of fresh food caused either by customs delays or a sharp price hike. And then from nowhere, memes on social media start going viral, telling people that the Muslims are hoarding all our food. That type of thing could spiral out of control very rapidly, with terrible consequences. " And you think there won't be a far right backlash if BREXIT doesn't happen? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Didn't you forget the plagues of locusts?
Yet more hysterical nonsense. I find it funny you've been brainwashed to believe this kind of crap ever has the slightest possibility of happening. If you want to wallow in self pity and the despair of project fear go ahead and fill your boots, it doesn't wash with me. "Ah, that Project Fear trope again. Funny thing, I remember your people using it in 2016 whenever anyone suggested the UK might leave without an agreement. Project Fear, you shouted. When did you do a complete U-turn? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Didn't you forget the plagues of locusts?
Yet more hysterical nonsense. I find it funny you've been brainwashed to believe this kind of crap ever has the slightest possibility of happening. If you want to wallow in self pity and the despair of project fear go ahead and fill your boots, it doesn't wash with me.
Ah, that Project Fear trope again.
Funny thing, I remember your people using it in 2016 whenever anyone suggested the UK might leave without an agreement.
Project Fear, you shouted.
When did you do a complete U-turn?
"Has Sara said she believed it ? I don’t think I will happen, but IF there is unrest, I think it is likely to come IF no deal causes the issues Sara outlines and then it will be from both sides as this reality bites. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" And you think there won't be a far right backlash if BREXIT doesn't happen?" I think people who voted to leave would be entitled to feel very let down indeed if the UK does not leave on March 29. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Didn't you forget the plagues of locusts?
Yet more hysterical nonsense. I find it funny you've been brainwashed to believe this kind of crap ever has the slightest possibility of happening. If you want to wallow in self pity and the despair of project fear go ahead and fill your boots, it doesn't wash with me.
Ah, that Project Fear trope again.
Funny thing, I remember your people using it in 2016 whenever anyone suggested the UK might leave without an agreement.
Project Fear, you shouted.
When did you do a complete U-turn?
"We shouted project fear in 2016 when the remain campaign said there would be a deep and immediate recession, 80% drop in house prices, half a million job losses, and Cameron's ridiculous claim that a vote to leave would cause WW3. Fully justified to call those things project fear as they haven't happened and never were going to happen, so no u-turn there. Theresa May still has 2 months to secure a deal so let's see if she achieves it. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Didn't you forget the plagues of locusts?
Yet more hysterical nonsense. I find it funny you've been brainwashed to believe this kind of crap ever has the slightest possibility of happening. If you want to wallow in self pity and the despair of project fear go ahead and fill your boots, it doesn't wash with me.
Ah, that Project Fear trope again.
Funny thing, I remember your people using it in 2016 whenever anyone suggested the UK might leave without an agreement.
Project Fear, you shouted.
When did you do a complete U-turn?
We shouted project fear in 2016 when the remain campaign said there would be a deep and immediate recession, 80% drop in house prices, half a million job losses, and Cameron's ridiculous claim that a vote to leave would cause WW3. Fully justified to call those things project fear as they haven't happened and never were going to happen, so no u-turn there.
Theresa May still has 2 months to secure a deal so let's see if she achieves it. "“Project Fear” is the stock phrase used by people who are unable to face reality. Those Brexiteers that have religious zeal about their opinions. She’s had two and a half years and achieved fuck all. However she was put in a lose/lose situation, so I don’t know what anyone was expecting. One of her shit deals will be better than no deal, and neither are anywhere near as good as being in the EU. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" And you think there won't be a far right backlash if BREXIT doesn't happen?" The very fact that this possibility is even being countenanced is an utter damnation of governance in this country. It cannot be right that people are still under some kind of impression that this is about a battle for independence and any denial of their independence is a justification to riot. For fucks sake it is only about common trade and regulatory alignment. The people who purport it to be anything other than that are doing the country a great disservice - as are the people who allow this false narrative to go unchallenged. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" And you think there won't be a far right backlash if BREXIT doesn't happen? The very fact that this possibility is even being countenanced is an utter damnation of governance in this country. It cannot be right that people are still under some kind of impression that this is about a battle for independence and any denial of their independence is a justification to riot. For fucks sake it is only about common trade and regulatory alignment. The people who purport it to be anything other than that are doing the country a great disservice - as are the people who allow this false narrative to go unchallenged." It is about contempt for democracy. If the EU were just a trade and regulation agreement, then it would be much less problematic, but it isn't. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" And you think there won't be a far right backlash if BREXIT doesn't happen? The very fact that this possibility is even being countenanced is an utter damnation of governance in this country. It cannot be right that people are still under some kind of impression that this is about a battle for independence and any denial of their independence is a justification to riot. For fucks sake it is only about common trade and regulatory alignment. The people who purport it to be anything other than that are doing the country a great disservice - as are the people who allow this false narrative to go unchallenged. It is about contempt for democracy. If the EU were just a trade and regulation agreement, then it would be much less problematic, but it isn't." What exactly is about “contempt for democracy”? -Matt | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The EU is heading in the direction of federal superstate, and Germany will lead the way with their little friends in France guarding their rear. This has been the plan for decades, and the UK was never considered as equals. The sooner we get out the better, deal or no deal." So that's the opposite of the EU falling apart. You and Centaur, two Leave supporters with exactly the opposite view about the EU | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" And you think there won't be a far right backlash if BREXIT doesn't happen? The very fact that this possibility is even being countenanced is an utter damnation of governance in this country. It cannot be right that people are still under some kind of impression that this is about a battle for independence and any denial of their independence is a justification to riot. For fucks sake it is only about common trade and regulatory alignment. The people who purport it to be anything other than that are doing the country a great disservice - as are the people who allow this false narrative to go unchallenged. It is about contempt for democracy. If the EU were just a trade and regulation agreement, then it would be much less problematic, but it isn't. What exactly is about “contempt for democracy”? -Matt " An unelected commission, within the EU, but I was talking more about trying to sabotage BREXIT here. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The other thing to factor in is the influence of malign foreign interference. Let's say there is a shortage of fresh food caused either by customs delays or a sharp price hike. And then from nowhere, memes on social media start going viral, telling people that the Muslims are hoarding all our food. That type of thing could spiral out of control very rapidly, with terrible consequences. And you think there won't be a far right backlash if BREXIT doesn't happen?" You don't think there won't be a backlash after Brexit if it doesn't deliver on all of the promises that it could never deliver on? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The other thing to factor in is the influence of malign foreign interference. Let's say there is a shortage of fresh food caused either by customs delays or a sharp price hike. And then from nowhere, memes on social media start going viral, telling people that the Muslims are hoarding all our food. That type of thing could spiral out of control very rapidly, with terrible consequences. And you think there won't be a far right backlash if BREXIT doesn't happen? You don't think there won't be a backlash after Brexit if it doesn't deliver on all of the promises that it could never deliver on?" Of course, but not of the same magnitude. I'm hoping for a change in government. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The EU is heading in the direction of federal superstate, and Germany will lead the way with their little friends in France guarding their rear. This has been the plan for decades, and the UK was never considered as equals. The sooner we get out the better, deal or no deal. So that's the opposite of the EU falling apart. You and Centaur, two Leave supporters with exactly the opposite view about the EU "No, as usual you've assumed wrong again. I agree with Peacehaven the general direction of the EU is heading towards a federal United States of Europe. It's the relentless push towards that by the zealots in Brussels which will ultimately split the EU apart though and will lead towards its inevitable collapse, because the majority of people are opposed to the politicians about the direction of this project. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Awww, poor old queenie. She’s what, 92 or something? It’ll be like the fire alarm going off at the old folk’s home. All the old ones getting wheeled out. I don’t agree with hereditary privilege - I am republican. But she’s 92. No-one deserves that at 92." The Queen has lead a life of luxury and was born with a silver spoon in her mouth. It must be terribly painful having the prospect of being moved from one luxury residence in London to another luxury Royal residence somewhere else in the country. The stress of picking and choosing which luxury Royal residence to move to next must be unbearable for her I'm sure. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" And you think there won't be a far right backlash if BREXIT doesn't happen? The very fact that this possibility is even being countenanced is an utter damnation of governance in this country. It cannot be right that people are still under some kind of impression that this is about a battle for independence and any denial of their independence is a justification to riot. For fucks sake it is only about common trade and regulatory alignment. The people who purport it to be anything other than that are doing the country a great disservice - as are the people who allow this false narrative to go unchallenged. It is about contempt for democracy. If the EU were just a trade and regulation agreement, then it would be much less problematic, but it isn't. What exactly is about “contempt for democracy”? -Matt An unelected commission, within the EU, but I was talking more about trying to elaborate BREXIT here. " Our civil service is not elected either. What negative thing has happened that effects your life that was decided upon "undemocratically"? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Awww, poor old queenie. She’s what, 92 or something? It’ll be like the fire alarm going off at the old folk’s home. All the old ones getting wheeled out. I don’t agree with hereditary privilege - I am republican. But she’s 92. No-one deserves that at 92. The Queen has lead a life of luxury and was born with a silver spoon in her mouth. It must be terribly painful having the prospect of being moved from one luxury residence in London to another luxury Royal residence somewhere else in the country. The stress of picking and choosing which luxury Royal residence to move to next must be unbearable for her I'm sure. "Like Rees-Mogg and BoJo and Farage? They know your pain | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The EU is heading in the direction of federal superstate, and Germany will lead the way with their little friends in France guarding their rear. This has been the plan for decades, and the UK was never considered as equals. The sooner we get out the better, deal or no deal. So that's the opposite of the EU falling apart. You and Centaur, two Leave supporters with exactly the opposite view about the EU
No, as usual you've assumed wrong again. I agree with Peacehaven the general direction of the EU is heading towards a federal United States of Europe. It's the relentless push towards that by the zealots in Brussels which will ultimately split the EU apart though and will lead towards its inevitable collapse, because the majority of people are opposed to the politicians about the direction of this project. "I didn't assume anything. Peacehaven is predicting a superstate. You are predicting an imminent collapse. The rest of Europe, including the ones you think are against it, want to keep the and the Euro. They are happy with internal immigration. They do not like dark skinned or Muslim people or the discipline that is required to make such an organisation work. They don't want to destroy it. They want to take it over. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" And you think there won't be a far right backlash if BREXIT doesn't happen? The very fact that this possibility is even being countenanced is an utter damnation of governance in this country. It cannot be right that people are still under some kind of impression that this is about a battle for independence and any denial of their independence is a justification to riot. For fucks sake it is only about common trade and regulatory alignment. The people who purport it to be anything other than that are doing the country a great disservice - as are the people who allow this false narrative to go unchallenged. It is about contempt for democracy. If the EU were just a trade and regulation agreement, then it would be much less problematic, but it isn't. What exactly is about “contempt for democracy”? -Matt An unelected commission, within the EU, but I was talking more about trying to elaborate BREXIT here. Our civil service is not elected either. What negative thing has happened that effects your life that was decided upon "undemocratically"?" Do the civil service dictate policy then? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" And you think there won't be a far right backlash if BREXIT doesn't happen? The very fact that this possibility is even being countenanced is an utter damnation of governance in this country. It cannot be right that people are still under some kind of impression that this is about a battle for independence and any denial of their independence is a justification to riot. For fucks sake it is only about common trade and regulatory alignment. The people who purport it to be anything other than that are doing the country a great disservice - as are the people who allow this false narrative to go unchallenged. It is about contempt for democracy. If the EU were just a trade and regulation agreement, then it would be much less problematic, but it isn't. What exactly is about “contempt for democracy”? -Matt An unelected commission, within the EU, but I was talking more about trying to elaborate BREXIT here. Our civil service is not elected either. What negative thing has happened that effects your life that was decided upon "undemocratically"? Do the civil service dictate policy then? " Neither does the Commission. It proposes some. That has to be agreed by the Council of Ministers made up of each member state. They "dictate" nothing. This then has to pass through the European Parliament to become legislation. Again, what negative thing has happened that effects your life that was decided upon "undemocratically"? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" And you think there won't be a far right backlash if BREXIT doesn't happen? The very fact that this possibility is even being countenanced is an utter damnation of governance in this country. It cannot be right that people are still under some kind of impression that this is about a battle for independence and any denial of their independence is a justification to riot. For fucks sake it is only about common trade and regulatory alignment. The people who purport it to be anything other than that are doing the country a great disservice - as are the people who allow this false narrative to go unchallenged. It is about contempt for democracy. If the EU were just a trade and regulation agreement, then it would be much less problematic, but it isn't. What exactly is about “contempt for democracy”? -Matt An unelected commission, within the EU, but I was talking more about trying to elaborate BREXIT here. Our civil service is not elected either. What negative thing has happened that effects your life that was decided upon "undemocratically"? Do the civil service dictate policy then? Neither does the Commission. It proposes some. That has to be agreed by the Council of Ministers made up of each member state. They "dictate" nothing. This then has to pass through the European Parliament to become legislation. Again, what negative thing has happened that effects your life that was decided upon "undemocratically"?" Who cares? The notion that we should accept an erosion of democracy because those in power have our best interests at heart (Which is where you are going with that question) is fucking terrifying. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" And you think there won't be a far right backlash if BREXIT doesn't happen? The very fact that this possibility is even being countenanced is an utter damnation of governance in this country. It cannot be right that people are still under some kind of impression that this is about a battle for independence and any denial of their independence is a justification to riot. For fucks sake it is only about common trade and regulatory alignment. The people who purport it to be anything other than that are doing the country a great disservice - as are the people who allow this false narrative to go unchallenged. It is about contempt for democracy. If the EU were just a trade and regulation agreement, then it would be much less problematic, but it isn't. What exactly is about “contempt for democracy”? -Matt An unelected commission, within the EU, but I was talking more about trying to elaborate BREXIT here. Our civil service is not elected either. What negative thing has happened that effects your life that was decided upon "undemocratically"? Do the civil service dictate policy then? Neither does the Commission. It proposes some. That has to be agreed by the Council of Ministers made up of each member state. They "dictate" nothing. This then has to pass through the European Parliament to become legislation. Again, what negative thing has happened that effects your life that was decided upon "undemocratically"? Who cares? The notion that we should accept an erosion of democracy because those in power have our best interests at heart (Which is where you are going with that question) is fucking terrifying." But we don’t have to accept an erosion of democracy. Because there isn’t an erosion of democracy. -Matt | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If they were to sit round a table Discuss brexit properly instead of threatening and refusing it could be an easy process in everyone's interest ." The campaign was not run in those terms. How can you negotiate with someone you've demonised? Someone that you've already promised will give you all that you demand. See posts above and below. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" And you think there won't be a far right backlash if BREXIT doesn't happen? The very fact that this possibility is even being countenanced is an utter damnation of governance in this country. It cannot be right that people are still under some kind of impression that this is about a battle for independence and any denial of their independence is a justification to riot. For fucks sake it is only about common trade and regulatory alignment. The people who purport it to be anything other than that are doing the country a great disservice - as are the people who allow this false narrative to go unchallenged. It is about contempt for democracy. If the EU were just a trade and regulation agreement, then it would be much less problematic, but it isn't. What exactly is about “contempt for democracy”? -Matt An unelected commission, within the EU, but I was talking more about trying to elaborate BREXIT here. Our civil service is not elected either. What negative thing has happened that effects your life that was decided upon "undemocratically"? Do the civil service dictate policy then? Neither does the Commission. It proposes some. That has to be agreed by the Council of Ministers made up of each member state. They "dictate" nothing. This then has to pass through the European Parliament to become legislation. Again, what negative thing has happened that effects your life that was decided upon "undemocratically"? Who cares? The notion that we should accept an erosion of democracy because those in power have our best interests at heart (Which is where you are going with that question) is fucking terrifying." I am not implying that those in power have our best interests at heart. Many do. Many believe that they do even though their solutions actually bring harm. Many don't care about anything except themselves. Regardless you have airily brushed away any reasonable questions and continue to make an assertion. No problem identified. No mechanism denying democracy established. Yet here you say that neither is relevant for your belief to be true. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" The Queen has lead a life of luxury and was born with a silver spoon in her mouth. It must be terribly painful having the prospect of being moved from one luxury residence in London to another luxury Royal residence somewhere else in the country. The stress of picking and choosing which luxury Royal residence to move to next must be unbearable for her I'm sure. "My mum is 82. I know how fragile life is at 82. Even more so at 92. Mind you, her mum was a survivor - 100 and something. Betty. The Queen Mum. It met her a few times. The first queen from Scotland in 300 odd years. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" And you think there won't be a far right backlash if BREXIT doesn't happen? The very fact that this possibility is even being countenanced is an utter damnation of governance in this country. It cannot be right that people are still under some kind of impression that this is about a battle for independence and any denial of their independence is a justification to riot. For fucks sake it is only about common trade and regulatory alignment. The people who purport it to be anything other than that are doing the country a great disservice - as are the people who allow this false narrative to go unchallenged. It is about contempt for democracy. If the EU were just a trade and regulation agreement, then it would be much less problematic, but it isn't. What exactly is about “contempt for democracy”? -Matt An unelected commission, within the EU, but I was talking more about trying to elaborate BREXIT here. Our civil service is not elected either. What negative thing has happened that effects your life that was decided upon "undemocratically"? Do the civil service dictate policy then? Neither does the Commission. It proposes some. That has to be agreed by the Council of Ministers made up of each member state. They "dictate" nothing. This then has to pass through the European Parliament to become legislation. Again, what negative thing has happened that effects your life that was decided upon "undemocratically"? Who cares? The notion that we should accept an erosion of democracy because those in power have our best interests at heart (Which is where you are going with that question) is fucking terrifying." Are we talking about the Eu here, or parliament ? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" And you think there won't be a far right backlash if BREXIT doesn't happen? The very fact that this possibility is even being countenanced is an utter damnation of governance in this country. It cannot be right that people are still under some kind of impression that this is about a battle for independence and any denial of their independence is a justification to riot. For fucks sake it is only about common trade and regulatory alignment. The people who purport it to be anything other than that are doing the country a great disservice - as are the people who allow this false narrative to go unchallenged. It is about contempt for democracy. If the EU were just a trade and regulation agreement, then it would be much less problematic, but it isn't. What exactly is about “contempt for democracy”? -Matt An unelected commission, within the EU, but I was talking more about trying to elaborate BREXIT here. Our civil service is not elected either. What negative thing has happened that effects your life that was decided upon "undemocratically"? Do the civil service dictate policy then? Neither does the Commission. It proposes some. That has to be agreed by the Council of Ministers made up of each member state. They "dictate" nothing. This then has to pass through the European Parliament to become legislation. Again, what negative thing has happened that effects your life that was decided upon "undemocratically"? Who cares? The notion that we should accept an erosion of democracy because those in power have our best interests at heart (Which is where you are going with that question) is fucking terrifying. But we don’t have to accept an erosion of democracy. Because there isn’t an erosion of democracy. -Matt" Plenty would disagree - The erosion of democracy in neoliberal systems is a massive cause for concern. The EU is no exception. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" And you think there won't be a far right backlash if BREXIT doesn't happen? The very fact that this possibility is even being countenanced is an utter damnation of governance in this country. It cannot be right that people are still under some kind of impression that this is about a battle for independence and any denial of their independence is a justification to riot. For fucks sake it is only about common trade and regulatory alignment. The people who purport it to be anything other than that are doing the country a great disservice - as are the people who allow this false narrative to go unchallenged. It is about contempt for democracy. If the EU were just a trade and regulation agreement, then it would be much less problematic, but it isn't. What exactly is about “contempt for democracy”? -Matt An unelected commission, within the EU, but I was talking more about trying to elaborate BREXIT here. Our civil service is not elected either. What negative thing has happened that effects your life that was decided upon "undemocratically"?" Our civil service don't propose or make laws though, our elected representatives (MP's) in Parliament do that. The unelected EU Commission propose and put forward laws, the MEP's in the European Parliament don't, MEP's can either vote in favour of it or against it. The EU is a dictatorship disguised as a democracy. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The EU is heading in the direction of federal superstate, and Germany will lead the way with their little friends in France guarding their rear. This has been the plan for decades, and the UK was never considered as equals. The sooner we get out the better, deal or no deal. So that's the opposite of the EU falling apart. You and Centaur, two Leave supporters with exactly the opposite view about the EU
No, as usual you've assumed wrong again. I agree with Peacehaven the general direction of the EU is heading towards a federal United States of Europe. It's the relentless push towards that by the zealots in Brussels which will ultimately split the EU apart though and will lead towards its inevitable collapse, because the majority of people are opposed to the politicians about the direction of this project.
I didn't assume anything.
Peacehaven is predicting a superstate. You are predicting an imminent collapse.
The rest of Europe, including the ones you think are against it, want to keep the and the Euro. They are happy with internal immigration.
They do not like dark skinned or Muslim people or the discipline that is required to make such an organisation work.
They don't want to destroy it. They want to take it over."You think the rest of Europe are in favour of the EU? Laughable.
Macron said he dare not give the French people a referendum on membership of the EU, because they would vote for Frexit in a heart beat. So much for democracy in the EU eh? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" And you think there won't be a far right backlash if BREXIT doesn't happen? The very fact that this possibility is even being countenanced is an utter damnation of governance in this country. It cannot be right that people are still under some kind of impression that this is about a battle for independence and any denial of their independence is a justification to riot. For fucks sake it is only about common trade and regulatory alignment. The people who purport it to be anything other than that are doing the country a great disservice - as are the people who allow this false narrative to go unchallenged. It is about contempt for democracy. If the EU were just a trade and regulation agreement, then it would be much less problematic, but it isn't. What exactly is about “contempt for democracy”? -Matt An unelected commission, within the EU, but I was talking more about trying to elaborate BREXIT here. Our civil service is not elected either. What negative thing has happened that effects your life that was decided upon "undemocratically"? Do the civil service dictate policy then? Neither does the Commission. It proposes some. That has to be agreed by the Council of Ministers made up of each member state. They "dictate" nothing. This then has to pass through the European Parliament to become legislation. Again, what negative thing has happened that effects your life that was decided upon "undemocratically"? Who cares? The notion that we should accept an erosion of democracy because those in power have our best interests at heart (Which is where you are going with that question) is fucking terrifying. But we don’t have to accept an erosion of democracy. Because there isn’t an erosion of democracy. -Matt" What was Yanis Varoufarkis talking about on BBC Newsnight in the week then when he said there is a democratic deficit in the EU which needs to be addressed, but the EU is ignoring it. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" And you think there won't be a far right backlash if BREXIT doesn't happen? The very fact that this possibility is even being countenanced is an utter damnation of governance in this country. It cannot be right that people are still under some kind of impression that this is about a battle for independence and any denial of their independence is a justification to riot. For fucks sake it is only about common trade and regulatory alignment. The people who purport it to be anything other than that are doing the country a great disservice - as are the people who allow this false narrative to go unchallenged. It is about contempt for democracy. If the EU were just a trade and regulation agreement, then it would be much less problematic, but it isn't. What exactly is about “contempt for democracy”? -Matt An unelected commission, within the EU, but I was talking more about trying to elaborate BREXIT here. Our civil service is not elected either. What negative thing has happened that effects your life that was decided upon "undemocratically"? Do the civil service dictate policy then? Neither does the Commission. It proposes some. That has to be agreed by the Council of Ministers made up of each member state. They "dictate" nothing. This then has to pass through the European Parliament to become legislation. Again, what negative thing has happened that effects your life that was decided upon "undemocratically"? Who cares? The notion that we should accept an erosion of democracy because those in power have our best interests at heart (Which is where you are going with that question) is fucking terrifying. But we don’t have to accept an erosion of democracy. Because there isn’t an erosion of democracy. -Matt What was Yanis Varoufarkis talking about on BBC Newsnight in the week then when he said there is a democratic deficit in the EU which needs to be addressed, but the EU is ignoring it. " Its not just Yannis, Tony Benn had been saying it for years. It's a Topic of discussion that Chomsky has had a lot of input on. These are not random nutters with conspiracy theory websites. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" And you think there won't be a far right backlash if BREXIT doesn't happen? The very fact that this possibility is even being countenanced is an utter damnation of governance in this country. It cannot be right that people are still under some kind of impression that this is about a battle for independence and any denial of their independence is a justification to riot. For fucks sake it is only about common trade and regulatory alignment. The people who purport it to be anything other than that are doing the country a great disservice - as are the people who allow this false narrative to go unchallenged. It is about contempt for democracy. If the EU were just a trade and regulation agreement, then it would be much less problematic, but it isn't. What exactly is about “contempt for democracy”? -Matt An unelected commission, within the EU, but I was talking more about trying to elaborate BREXIT here. Our civil service is not elected either. What negative thing has happened that effects your life that was decided upon "undemocratically"? Our civil service don't propose or make laws though, our elected representatives (MP's) in Parliament do that. The unelected EU Commission propose and put forward laws, the MEP's in the European Parliament don't, MEP's can either vote in favour of it or against it. The EU is a dictatorship disguised as a democracy. " Actually, UK MPs propose almost no legislation. Government does. Parliament debates and amends it. Did you not know that? Both the Council of Ministers and the Commission propose legislation, except that the Commission does not formally propose anything that does not already have the agreement of national governments. How do you think that policy implementation happens in the UK? Ministers provide their departments with fully plans when they arrive at their desks? The EU Parliament debates, amends and votes on legislation just like here. Not sure how it's a dictatorship if a law can be voted down. Do please explain Centaur  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" And you think there won't be a far right backlash if BREXIT doesn't happen? The very fact that this possibility is even being countenanced is an utter damnation of governance in this country. It cannot be right that people are still under some kind of impression that this is about a battle for independence and any denial of their independence is a justification to riot. For fucks sake it is only about common trade and regulatory alignment. The people who purport it to be anything other than that are doing the country a great disservice - as are the people who allow this false narrative to go unchallenged. It is about contempt for democracy. If the EU were just a trade and regulation agreement, then it would be much less problematic, but it isn't. What exactly is about “contempt for democracy”? -Matt An unelected commission, within the EU, but I was talking more about trying to elaborate BREXIT here. Our civil service is not elected either. What negative thing has happened that effects your life that was decided upon "undemocratically"? Our civil service don't propose or make laws though, our elected representatives (MP's) in Parliament do that. The unelected EU Commission propose and put forward laws, the MEP's in the European Parliament don't, MEP's can either vote in favour of it or against it. The EU is a dictatorship disguised as a democracy. Actually, UK MPs propose almost no legislation. Government does. Parliament debates and amends it. Did you not know that? Both the Council of Ministers and the Commission propose legislation, except that the Commission does not formally propose anything that does not already have the agreement of national governments. How do you think that policy implementation happens in the UK? Ministers provide their departments with fully plans when they arrive at their desks? The EU Parliament debates, amends and votes on legislation just like here. Not sure how it's a dictatorship if a law can be voted down. Do please explain Centaur "On your first point, what do you think forms a government? It's a selection of MP's in Parliament, as I said who are directly elected by the public. Did you not know that? Neither the council of ministers or the EU commission are directly elected by the people. Did you not know that either? The EU Parliament is nothing like the system of democracy that the UK has. No one in the EU Parliament, not one single MEP proposes or puts forward legislation. All MEP's do is vote either for or against legislation that comes before them. It's a dictatorship if it's unelected bureaucrats making up rules and laws for the people they over rule. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Led by the Germans and the French.. .what a combo...macron can't even lead his own country" He'll be kicked out of office at the next election, I guarantee it. It's a fair bet Marine Le Pen will win the next one on the back of a promise to offer the French people an in/out referendum on France's membership of the EU. Then we shall see if the French people really are in favour of the EU or not. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Led by the Germans and the French.. .what a combo...macron can't even lead his own country He'll be kicked out of office at the next election, I guarantee it. It's a fair bet Marine Le Pen will win the next one on the back of a promise to offer the French people an in/out referendum on France's membership of the EU. Then we shall see if the French people really are in favour of the EU or not. " Didnt you tell us all that le Pen would win the last election too? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Led by the Germans and the French.. .what a combo...macron can't even lead his own country He'll be kicked out of office at the next election, I guarantee it. It's a fair bet Marine Le Pen will win the next one on the back of a promise to offer the French people an in/out referendum on France's membership of the EU. Then we shall see if the French people really are in favour of the EU or not. Didnt you tell us all that le Pen would win the last election too?" No i never said she would win outright. I said she had a fair chance of winning and she came 2nd. Things have moved on a fair bit since then haven't they. Have you seen Macron's latest poll ratings or approval ratings? Noticed any protesters wearing yellow vests in France over the last 2 months by any chance? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" And you think there won't be a far right backlash if BREXIT doesn't happen? The very fact that this possibility is even being countenanced is an utter damnation of governance in this country. It cannot be right that people are still under some kind of impression that this is about a battle for independence and any denial of their independence is a justification to riot. For fucks sake it is only about common trade and regulatory alignment. The people who purport it to be anything other than that are doing the country a great disservice - as are the people who allow this false narrative to go unchallenged. It is about contempt for democracy. If the EU were just a trade and regulation agreement, then it would be much less problematic, but it isn't. What exactly is about “contempt for democracy”? -Matt An unelected commission, within the EU, but I was talking more about trying to elaborate BREXIT here. Our civil service is not elected either. What negative thing has happened that effects your life that was decided upon "undemocratically"? Our civil service don't propose or make laws though, our elected representatives (MP's) in Parliament do that. The unelected EU Commission propose and put forward laws, the MEP's in the European Parliament don't, MEP's can either vote in favour of it or against it. The EU is a dictatorship disguised as a democracy. Actually, UK MPs propose almost no legislation. Government does. Parliament debates and amends it. Did you not know that? Both the Council of Ministers and the Commission propose legislation, except that the Commission does not formally propose anything that does not already have the agreement of national governments. How do you think that policy implementation happens in the UK? Ministers provide their departments with fully plans when they arrive at their desks? The EU Parliament debates, amends and votes on legislation just like here. Not sure how it's a dictatorship if a law can be voted down. Do please explain Centaur
On your first point, what do you think forms a government? It's a selection of MP's in Parliament, as I said who are directly elected by the public.
Did you not know that?
Neither the council of ministers or the EU commission are directly elected by the people.
Did you not know that either?
The EU Parliament is nothing like the system of democracy that the UK has. No one in the EU Parliament, not one single MEP proposes or puts forward legislation. All MEP's do is vote either for or against legislation that comes before them.
It's a dictatorship if it's unelected bureaucrats making up rules and laws for the people they over rule. "The Council of Ministers is appointed by elected governments to represent their national policy. Do you think they go and do whatever they want once they get there? I'll write it again: no legislation goes forward that is not agreed to by the Council. All legislation is voted on by MEPs and Parliamentary committees can propose legislation. The House of Lords is not directly elected by the people. The appointment of Cabinet Ministers and the Prime Minister is not directly elected by the people. The Head of the Army and NHS are not directly elected by the people. What point are you making? What in your mind makes what we do in the UK more democratic? Just using derogatory and emotive language ripped from Express headlines and repeating and infinitum doesn't make what you are saying true. You can't even name EU legislation that has materially had a negative effect on your life so you have to be offended by an imagined lack of democracy. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" “Project Fear” is the stock phrase used by people who are unable to face reality. " | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It’s like the theory that the EU is going to become an undemocratic superstate. I’m sure all those ex eastern bloc states are going to vote for that having just escaped another superstate. Its already undemocratic. What's your take on "ever closer union" if not European federalism?" . They clearly haven't taken much notice of the last few hundred years of federalism in the US, many Americans still rightly distrust it on many levels. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Brexshit - the gift that keeps on giving. The Sunday Times today reports today that Whitehall is dusting down its evacuation plans for the Royal Family, in the event of civil unrest in London. Hurrah, hurrah, hurrah! " oh can't wait. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Brexshit - the gift that keeps on giving. The Sunday Times today reports today that Whitehall is dusting down its evacuation plans for the Royal Family, in the event of civil unrest in London. Hurrah, hurrah, hurrah! oh can't wait. " Hope the plans don't hinge on Philip driving | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It’s like the theory that the EU is going to become an undemocratic superstate. I’m sure all those ex eastern bloc states are going to vote for that having just escaped another superstate. Its already undemocratic. What's your take on "ever closer union" if not European federalism?. They clearly haven't taken much notice of the last few hundred years of federalism in the US, many Americans still rightly distrust it on many levels." But apart from Alex Jones.....  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It’s like the theory that the EU is going to become an undemocratic superstate. I’m sure all those ex eastern bloc states are going to vote for that having just escaped another superstate. Its already undemocratic. What's your take on "ever closer union" if not European federalism?. They clearly haven't taken much notice of the last few hundred years of federalism in the US, many Americans still rightly distrust it on many levels. But apart from Alex Jones..... ". Have you ever visited the US?. If you ever do just ask folks what they think about Washington government, the answer might surprise you. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Problem is ..other countries will not ..or don't want to offer the in out vote ...as the powers that be won't like the result ...." Yellow vests in France are demanding one which is probably why our media is desperately trying to paint them as a fringe far right movement. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The British media working with the EU to deliver a political outcome in France? Wow, that's quite a conspiracy theory! "It's not that far fetched that our media distort the nature of protests. I can distinctly remember them not reporting at all on anti-austerity marches my parents were on, as if they weren't happening. This is mostly what's happening with France, apart from the occasional "yellow vests are fascists" article in the Indy. I didn't say they were somehow "in league" with the EU. You can, of course in these days of the internet, check footage for yourself and compare and contrast to newspaper articles. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Didn't you forget the plagues of locusts?
Yet more hysterical nonsense. I find it funny you've been brainwashed to believe this kind of crap ever has the slightest possibility of happening. If you want to wallow in self pity and the despair of project fear go ahead and fill your boots, it doesn't wash with me.
Ah, that Project Fear trope again.
Funny thing, I remember your people using it in 2016 whenever anyone suggested the UK might leave without an agreement.
Project Fear, you shouted.
When did you do a complete U-turn?
We shouted project fear in 2016 when the remain campaign said there would be a deep and immediate recession, 80% drop in house prices, half a million job losses, and Cameron's ridiculous claim that a vote to leave would cause WW3. Fully justified to call those things project fear as they haven't happened and never were going to happen, so no u-turn there.
Theresa May still has 2 months to secure a deal so let's see if she achieves it. "Cameron never said leaving the EU would cause WWIII. No one from any remain campaign said that or anything like it. YET ANOTHER LEAVE LIE. If you think otherwise please post a link to back it up. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The British media working with the EU to deliver a political outcome in France? Wow, that's quite a conspiracy theory!
It's not that far fetched that our media distort the nature of protests. I can distinctly remember them not reporting at all on anti-austerity marches my parents were on, as if they weren't happening. This is mostly what's happening with France, apart from the occasional "yellow vests are fascists" article in the Indy.
I didn't say they were somehow "in league" with the EU.
You can, of course in these days of the internet, check footage for yourself and compare and contrast to newspaper articles."Why would the bbc down play this ? I dong follow the purpose it serves. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Problem is ..other countries will not ..or don't want to offer the in out vote ...as the powers that be won't like the result .... Yellow vests in France are demanding one which is probably why our media is desperately trying to paint them as a fringe far right movement." The yellow vests are not an organisation with demands. They are a flash-mob of individuals. They want everything and nothing. Please point me to where "they" state what they want? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The British media working with the EU to deliver a political outcome in France? Wow, that's quite a conspiracy theory!
It's not that far fetched that our media distort the nature of protests. I can distinctly remember them not reporting at all on anti-austerity marches my parents were on, as if they weren't happening. This is mostly what's happening with France, apart from the occasional "yellow vests are fascists" article in the Indy.
I didn't say they were somehow "in league" with the EU.
You can, of course in these days of the internet, check footage for yourself and compare and contrast to newspaper articles.
Why would the bbc down play this ? I dong follow the purpose it serves. "The BBC always plays down protest. In this case I'm guessing it's so that the French don't "encourage less autres". | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Problem is ..other countries will not ..or don't want to offer the in out vote ...as the powers that be won't like the result .... Yellow vests in France are demanding one which is probably why our media is desperately trying to paint them as a fringe far right movement. The yellow vests are not an organisation with demands. They are a flash-mob of individuals. They want everything and nothing. Please point me to where "they" state what they want?" Allow me to Google that for you... https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europe-make-it/france-bleu/demands-of-frances-yellow-vests-as-uploaded-by-france-bleu-november-29  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It is a common misconception amongst the extreme brexiters, although having said that I think a new eu is slowly forming starting with the slavic countries and italy, with hungary leading the way, soon the others will join, whats your view? " Well, if the Slavics, Italy and Hungary are leading the way to a new EU, then perhaps the Hapsburg Empire is being rebuilt? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It’s like the theory that the EU is going to become an undemocratic superstate. I’m sure all those ex eastern bloc states are going to vote for that having just escaped another superstate. Its already undemocratic. What's your take on "ever closer union" if not European federalism?. They clearly haven't taken much notice of the last few hundred years of federalism in the US, many Americans still rightly distrust it on many levels. But apart from Alex Jones..... .
Have you ever visited the US?.
If you ever do just ask folks what they think about Washington government, the answer might surprise you."I am in the process of selling two businesses in the US and during the time I developed them (2011 to 2018) I spent around 8-12 weeks a year there on 4 - 6 different trips each year. I stayed mainly in SE Florida and the MidWest cities of Cleveland and Akron, but on occasions also Los Angeles, New Jersey, New York and Chicago. The overwhelming majority of people with whom I interacted did not hold bonkers conspiracy theories and trusted their Govt to do the right thing. Like the majority of Brits and the majority of Europeans, the majority of Americans (at least who I have met) are just regular people who hold regular views and they don't harbour deep-state conspiracy theories. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Problem is ..other countries will not ..or don't want to offer the in out vote ...as the powers that be won't like the result .... Yellow vests in France are demanding one which is probably why our media is desperately trying to paint them as a fringe far right movement. The yellow vests are not an organisation with demands. They are a flash-mob of individuals. They want everything and nothing. Please point me to where "they" state what they want?" . It seems at times that your very demanding of other people's opinions and statements, not everybody has all day free like your goodself to constantly Google references for your pleasure. I suggest if your interested in what one says then Google it yourself in future, it will make it much easier for everybody on here. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Problem is ..other countries will not ..or don't want to offer the in out vote ...as the powers that be won't like the result .... Yellow vests in France are demanding one which is probably why our media is desperately trying to paint them as a fringe far right movement. The yellow vests are not an organisation with demands. They are a flash-mob of individuals. They want everything and nothing. Please point me to where "they" state what they want?. It seems at times that your very demanding of other people's opinions and statements, not everybody has all day free like your goodself to constantly Google references for your pleasure. I suggest if your interested in what one says then Google it yourself in future, it will make it much easier for everybody on here. "I mean, it's not like their representatives have produced a comprehensive list of demands or even replicated it in handy poster "chart" form so that everyone knows what they are.... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It’s like the theory that the EU is going to become an undemocratic superstate. I’m sure all those ex eastern bloc states are going to vote for that having just escaped another superstate. Its already undemocratic. What's your take on "ever closer union" if not European federalism?. They clearly haven't taken much notice of the last few hundred years of federalism in the US, many Americans still rightly distrust it on many levels. But apart from Alex Jones..... .
Have you ever visited the US?.
If you ever do just ask folks what they think about Washington government, the answer might surprise you.
I am in the process of selling two businesses in the US and during the time I developed them (2011 to 2018) I spent around 8-12 weeks a year there on 4 - 6 different trips each year.
I stayed mainly in SE Florida and the MidWest cities of Cleveland and Akron, but on occasions also Los Angeles, New Jersey, New York and Chicago.
The overwhelming majority of people with whom I interacted did not hold bonkers conspiracy theories and trusted their Govt to do the right thing. Like the majority of Brits and the majority of Europeans, the majority of Americans (at least who I have met) are just regular people who hold regular views and they don't harbour deep-state conspiracy theories.". Then clearly they've never read the new York times who wrote a piece about the deep state only last month or never read the FBI report last year which talked about the "deep state" or watched CNN news which has done serval articles on the deep state. Maybe you only worked and met with the unobservable type like yourself, however my experience is the opposite, they distrust Washington politics deeply much more so than at local level. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It’s like the theory that the EU is going to become an undemocratic superstate. I’m sure all those ex eastern bloc states are going to vote for that having just escaped another superstate. Its already undemocratic. What's your take on "ever closer union" if not European federalism?. They clearly haven't taken much notice of the last few hundred years of federalism in the US, many Americans still rightly distrust it on many levels. But apart from Alex Jones..... .
Have you ever visited the US?.
If you ever do just ask folks what they think about Washington government, the answer might surprise you.
I am in the process of selling two businesses in the US and during the time I developed them (2011 to 2018) I spent around 8-12 weeks a year there on 4 - 6 different trips each year.
I stayed mainly in SE Florida and the MidWest cities of Cleveland and Akron, but on occasions also Los Angeles, New Jersey, New York and Chicago.
The overwhelming majority of people with whom I interacted did not hold bonkers conspiracy theories and trusted their Govt to do the right thing. Like the majority of Brits and the majority of Europeans, the majority of Americans (at least who I have met) are just regular people who hold regular views and they don't harbour deep-state conspiracy theories."I do love this post though "most people trust their government to do the right thing".....
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Problem is ..other countries will not ..or don't want to offer the in out vote ...as the powers that be won't like the result .... Yellow vests in France are demanding one which is probably why our media is desperately trying to paint them as a fringe far right movement. The yellow vests are not an organisation with demands. They are a flash-mob of individuals. They want everything and nothing. Please point me to where "they" state what they want?. It seems at times that your very demanding of other people's opinions and statements, not everybody has all day free like your goodself to constantly Google references for your pleasure. I suggest if your interested in what one says then Google it yourself in future, it will make it much easier for everybody on here.
I mean, it's not like their representatives have produced a comprehensive list of demands or even replicated it in handy poster "chart" form so that everyone knows what they are.... "A lot of the yellow vest footage I've seen on YouTube has a lot of yellow vests with Frexit written on their back. It's really not that hard to work out what they want from that either. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Problem is ..other countries will not ..or don't want to offer the in out vote ...as the powers that be won't like the result .... Yellow vests in France are demanding one which is probably why our media is desperately trying to paint them as a fringe far right movement. The yellow vests are not an organisation with demands. They are a flash-mob of individuals. They want everything and nothing. Please point me to where "they" state what they want?. It seems at times that your very demanding of other people's opinions and statements, not everybody has all day free like your goodself to constantly Google references for your pleasure. I suggest if your interested in what one says then Google it yourself in future, it will make it much easier for everybody on here.
I mean, it's not like their representatives have produced a comprehensive list of demands or even replicated it in handy poster "chart" form so that everyone knows what they are....
A lot of the yellow vest footage I've seen on YouTube has a lot of yellow vests with Frexit written on their back. It's really not that hard to work out what they want from that either. "You don't even need to chase footage, it's right there on their published list of demands. If you can read the others and then still call them a far right movement, that's pretty spectacular in my opinion. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The most frightening thing I ever came across in relation to the United States was Operation Northwoods. The false-flag proposal got to a very high level - the Pentagon took it to the political leaders who thankfully tossed it in the bin. But it demonstrated the warped lengths some people go to. The official papers are on the Internet. " . Frightening yet I'm afraid the tip of the iceberg, there's a general Micheal somebody I remember watching on a democracy now debate. He openly and honestly admitted that the United States under that great liberal Barack Obama killed people going of just there metadata!. I mean the CIA used to secretly kill you in covert at least decades ago before they captured all the mainstream media now they just drone strike you without a trial, the EU arrest warrant does away with habeas corpus, half the stuff they arrest you for doesn't require a jury, I'm not a big believer in governments and therefore tend to favour the smallest possible government necessary for a society to function. If only we could scale up Icelandic society where you could go kick the prime ministers front door in and beat him around the head with a wet cod for fucking up the banking system we'd all be better for it. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The most frightening thing I ever came across in relation to the United States was Operation Northwoods. The false-flag proposal got to a very high level - the Pentagon took it to the political leaders who thankfully tossed it in the bin. But it demonstrated the warped lengths some people go to. The official papers are on the Internet. . Frightening yet I'm afraid the tip of the iceberg, there's a general Micheal somebody I remember watching on a democracy now debate. He openly and honestly admitted that the United States under that great liberal Barack Obama killed people going of just there metadata!. I mean the CIA used to secretly kill you in covert at least decades ago before they captured all the mainstream media now they just drone strike you without a trial, the EU arrest warrant does away with habeas corpus, half the stuff they arrest you for doesn't require a jury, I'm not a big believer in governments and therefore tend to favour the smallest possible government necessary for a society to function. If only we could scale up Icelandic society where you could go kick the prime ministers front door in and beat him around the head with a wet cod for fucking up the banking system we'd all be better for it. "I'd go further, but then, I have been accused of being an Anarchist. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Didn't you forget the plagues of locusts?
Yet more hysterical nonsense. I find it funny you've been brainwashed to believe this kind of crap ever has the slightest possibility of happening. If you want to wallow in self pity and the despair of project fear go ahead and fill your boots, it doesn't wash with me.
Ah, that Project Fear trope again.
Funny thing, I remember your people using it in 2016 whenever anyone suggested the UK might leave without an agreement.
Project Fear, you shouted.
When did you do a complete U-turn?
We shouted project fear in 2016 when the remain campaign said there would be a deep and immediate recession, 80% drop in house prices, half a million job losses, and Cameron's ridiculous claim that a vote to leave would cause WW3. Fully justified to call those things project fear as they haven't happened and never were going to happen, so no u-turn there.
Theresa May still has 2 months to secure a deal so let's see if she achieves it.
Cameron never said leaving the EU would cause WWIII. No one from any remain campaign said that or anything like it. YET ANOTHER LEAVE LIE. If you think otherwise please post a link to back it up."I'll do better than that, i'll post 2 links, here you go..... www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/brexit-could-trigger-world-war-7928607 www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjOBcAelzJQ You only have to Google "David Cameron vote to leave cause World war 3 WW3 Brexit" to get dozens of links from different news sources to Cameron's ridiculous claim during the referendum campaign in 2016. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Problem is ..other countries will not ..or don't want to offer the in out vote ...as the powers that be won't like the result .... Yellow vests in France are demanding one which is probably why our media is desperately trying to paint them as a fringe far right movement. The yellow vests are not an organisation with demands. They are a flash-mob of individuals. They want everything and nothing. Please point me to where "they" state what they want? Allow me to Google that for you... https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europe-make-it/france-bleu/demands-of-frances-yellow-vests-as-uploaded-by-france-bleu-november-29 "Seriously? This isn't a list of demands for everything now? Written by whom? The yellow vest management team? Did this list spring forth from a drop of Zeus' blood? Some people a spontaneously organised protest have something written on their top so that's what they all want? The first list is followed by another "unofficial" one. Again, who are making these demands? "The people"? Which "The people"? Who wrote the first set of demands? Who wrote the second set? Who implements it? Some of the requests are perfectly sensible. Some are impossible to deliver. How is it paid for? Who takes responsibility for making it happen? It is everything and nothing isn't it? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Didn't you forget the plagues of locusts?
Yet more hysterical nonsense. I find it funny you've been brainwashed to believe this kind of crap ever has the slightest possibility of happening. If you want to wallow in self pity and the despair of project fear go ahead and fill your boots, it doesn't wash with me.
Ah, that Project Fear trope again.
Funny thing, I remember your people using it in 2016 whenever anyone suggested the UK might leave without an agreement.
Project Fear, you shouted.
When did you do a complete U-turn?
We shouted project fear in 2016 when the remain campaign said there would be a deep and immediate recession, 80% drop in house prices, half a million job losses, and Cameron's ridiculous claim that a vote to leave would cause WW3. Fully justified to call those things project fear as they haven't happened and never were going to happen, so no u-turn there.
Theresa May still has 2 months to secure a deal so let's see if she achieves it.
Cameron never said leaving the EU would cause WWIII. No one from any remain campaign said that or anything like it. YET ANOTHER LEAVE LIE. If you think otherwise please post a link to back it up.
I'll do better than that, i'll post 2 links, here you go.....
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/brexit-could-trigger-world-war-7928607
www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjOBcAelzJQ
You only have to Google "David Cameron vote to leave cause World war 3 WW3 Brexit" to get dozens of links from different news sources to Cameron's ridiculous claim during the referendum campaign in 2016."It's always a good idea to read beyond the headline to find out what the article actually says. The Mirror link you've posted says in it's headline that Cameron said leaving the EU could cause WWIII but when you read the article you find that the only person who mentioned WWIII was Boris Johnson. What Cameron actually said, as reported in the text of the article, was:- "Can we be so sure peace and stability on our continent are assured beyond any shadow of doubt?" In your second link it actually links to an interview where Cameron denies claiming that leaving the EU would cause WWIII. So I'll ask you again to post a link where Cameron, or any other leading Remain campaigners, actually says leaving the EU could or would cause WWIII. It is quite simply YET ANOTHER BREXIT LIE. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Didn't you forget the plagues of locusts?
Yet more hysterical nonsense. I find it funny you've been brainwashed to believe this kind of crap ever has the slightest possibility of happening. If you want to wallow in self pity and the despair of project fear go ahead and fill your boots, it doesn't wash with me.
Ah, that Project Fear trope again.
Funny thing, I remember your people using it in 2016 whenever anyone suggested the UK might leave without an agreement.
Project Fear, you shouted.
When did you do a complete U-turn?
We shouted project fear in 2016 when the remain campaign said there would be a deep and immediate recession, 80% drop in house prices, half a million job losses, and Cameron's ridiculous claim that a vote to leave would cause WW3. Fully justified to call those things project fear as they haven't happened and never were going to happen, so no u-turn there.
Theresa May still has 2 months to secure a deal so let's see if she achieves it.
Cameron never said leaving the EU would cause WWIII. No one from any remain campaign said that or anything like it. YET ANOTHER LEAVE LIE. If you think otherwise please post a link to back it up.
I'll do better than that, i'll post 2 links, here you go.....
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/brexit-could-trigger-world-war-7928607
www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjOBcAelzJQ
You only have to Google "David Cameron vote to leave cause World war 3 WW3 Brexit" to get dozens of links from different news sources to Cameron's ridiculous claim during the referendum campaign in 2016."Do you only read the headlines? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Problem is ..other countries will not ..or don't want to offer the in out vote ...as the powers that be won't like the result .... Yellow vests in France are demanding one which is probably why our media is desperately trying to paint them as a fringe far right movement. The yellow vests are not an organisation with demands. They are a flash-mob of individuals. They want everything and nothing. Please point me to where "they" state what they want? Allow me to Google that for you... https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europe-make-it/france-bleu/demands-of-frances-yellow-vests-as-uploaded-by-france-bleu-november-29
Seriously?
This isn't a list of demands for everything now?
Written by whom?
The yellow vest management team?
Did this list spring forth from a drop of Zeus' blood?
Some people a spontaneously organised protest have something written on their top so that's what they all want?
The first list is followed by another "unofficial" one.
Again, who are making these demands? "The people"? Which "The people"?
Who wrote the first set of demands? Who wrote the second set?
Who implements it?
Some of the requests are perfectly sensible. Some are impossible to deliver. How is it paid for? Who takes responsibility for making it happen?
It is everything and nothing isn't it?"No, it's quite comprehensive and written by their leaders, presented to the French parliament. I'm sorry that it's somehow too difficult for you to grasp that a protest movement has more than one demand. I'm sure that the yellow vests are having a real crisis of confidence that you can't understand a simple list of demands. As for your uncertainty about who is supposed to implement the demands..... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Didn't you forget the plagues of locusts?
Yet more hysterical nonsense. I find it funny you've been brainwashed to believe this kind of crap ever has the slightest possibility of happening. If you want to wallow in self pity and the despair of project fear go ahead and fill your boots, it doesn't wash with me.
Ah, that Project Fear trope again.
Funny thing, I remember your people using it in 2016 whenever anyone suggested the UK might leave without an agreement.
Project Fear, you shouted.
When did you do a complete U-turn?
We shouted project fear in 2016 when the remain campaign said there would be a deep and immediate recession, 80% drop in house prices, half a million job losses, and Cameron's ridiculous claim that a vote to leave would cause WW3. Fully justified to call those things project fear as they haven't happened and never were going to happen, so no u-turn there.
Theresa May still has 2 months to secure a deal so let's see if she achieves it.
Cameron never said leaving the EU would cause WWIII. No one from any remain campaign said that or anything like it. YET ANOTHER LEAVE LIE. If you think otherwise please post a link to back it up.
I'll do better than that, i'll post 2 links, here you go.....
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/brexit-could-trigger-world-war-7928607
www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjOBcAelzJQ
You only have to Google "David Cameron vote to leave cause World war 3 WW3 Brexit" to get dozens of links from different news sources to Cameron's ridiculous claim during the referendum campaign in 2016.
It's always a good idea to read beyond the headline to find out what the article actually says.
The Mirror link you've posted says in it's headline that Cameron said leaving the EU could cause WWIII but when you read the article you find that the only person who mentioned WWIII was Boris Johnson. What Cameron actually said, as reported in the text of the article, was:-
"Can we be so sure peace and stability on our continent are assured beyond any shadow of doubt?"
In your second link it actually links to an interview where Cameron denies claiming that leaving the EU would cause WWIII.
So I'll ask you again to post a link where Cameron, or any other leading Remain campaigners, actually says leaving the EU could or would cause WWIII.
It is quite simply YET ANOTHER BREXIT LIE.
"I refer you to you previous post where you said no one in the remain campaign said that 'or anything like it'. The 2 links I posted show Cameron inferring war would occur if we voted Leave. Did you listen to the whole YouTube clip of Cameron being interviewed by Feisal Islam on sky news? Faisel Islam interpreted Cameron's comments to mean world war 3, as Cameron referred to rows of white headstones in Europe. It was a pathetic and ludicrous accusation for Cameron to have made during the referendum in 2016, and he is rightly ridiculed and laughed at by the sky news audience in the YouTube clip. I'll leave people to make their own minds up based on the footage. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Problem is ..other countries will not ..or don't want to offer the in out vote ...as the powers that be won't like the result .... Yellow vests in France are demanding one which is probably why our media is desperately trying to paint them as a fringe far right movement. The yellow vests are not an organisation with demands. They are a flash-mob of individuals. They want everything and nothing. Please point me to where "they" state what they want? Allow me to Google that for you... https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europe-make-it/france-bleu/demands-of-frances-yellow-vests-as-uploaded-by-france-bleu-november-29
Seriously?
This isn't a list of demands for everything now?
Written by whom?
The yellow vest management team?
Did this list spring forth from a drop of Zeus' blood?
Some people a spontaneously organised protest have something written on their top so that's what they all want?
The first list is followed by another "unofficial" one.
Again, who are making these demands? "The people"? Which "The people"?
Who wrote the first set of demands? Who wrote the second set?
Who implements it?
Some of the requests are perfectly sensible. Some are impossible to deliver. How is it paid for? Who takes responsibility for making it happen?
It is everything and nothing isn't it?
No, it's quite comprehensive and written by their leaders, presented to the French parliament.
I'm sorry that it's somehow too difficult for you to grasp that a protest movement has more than one demand.
I'm sure that the yellow vests are having a real crisis of confidence that you can't understand a simple list of demands.
As for your uncertainty about who is supposed to implement the demands.....
"And honestly, if you are too intellectually lazy to find out who they are, that only reflects badly on you. All of your questions are easily googled, I can't see what purpose writing them here serves, unless you've decided that not having the facts to hand somehow helps your argument. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Problem is ..other countries will not ..or don't want to offer the in out vote ...as the powers that be won't like the result .... Yellow vests in France are demanding one which is probably why our media is desperately trying to paint them as a fringe far right movement. The yellow vests are not an organisation with demands. They are a flash-mob of individuals. They want everything and nothing. Please point me to where "they" state what they want? Allow me to Google that for you... https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europe-make-it/france-bleu/demands-of-frances-yellow-vests-as-uploaded-by-france-bleu-november-29
Seriously?
This isn't a list of demands for everything now?
Written by whom?
The yellow vest management team?
Did this list spring forth from a drop of Zeus' blood?
Some people a spontaneously organised protest have something written on their top so that's what they all want?
The first list is followed by another "unofficial" one.
Again, who are making these demands? "The people"? Which "The people"?
Who wrote the first set of demands? Who wrote the second set?
Who implements it?
Some of the requests are perfectly sensible. Some are impossible to deliver. How is it paid for? Who takes responsibility for making it happen?
It is everything and nothing isn't it?
No, it's quite comprehensive and written by their leaders, presented to the French parliament.
I'm sorry that it's somehow too difficult for you to grasp that a protest movement has more than one demand.
I'm sure that the yellow vests are having a real crisis of confidence that you can't understand a simple list of demands.
As for your uncertainty about who is supposed to implement the demands.....
""Their leaders"? Dud they make the "official" demands of the "unofficial" ones? They don't have "leaders" do they? They are an ad hoc grouping. Are you saying it is now a organisation with a structure that gathers the views of its members? Do they vote for them? In person? On line? By post? Who gets heard and who doesn't? I didn't say that the protest movement had only one demand. I said that they are what everyone demands. Minimal tax on individuals, lots of tax on big nasty companies and maximum public spending. What's not to like? Just get on with it. Easy as chips
If they want to change the government then who implements the demands? The next government? How long before they have to do something else because of a referendum? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Problem is ..other countries will not ..or don't want to offer the in out vote ...as the powers that be won't like the result .... Yellow vests in France are demanding one which is probably why our media is desperately trying to paint them as a fringe far right movement. The yellow vests are not an organisation with demands. They are a flash-mob of individuals. They want everything and nothing. Please point me to where "they" state what they want? Allow me to Google that for you... https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europe-make-it/france-bleu/demands-of-frances-yellow-vests-as-uploaded-by-france-bleu-november-29
Seriously?
This isn't a list of demands for everything now?
Written by whom?
The yellow vest management team?
Did this list spring forth from a drop of Zeus' blood?
Some people a spontaneously organised protest have something written on their top so that's what they all want?
The first list is followed by another "unofficial" one.
Again, who are making these demands? "The people"? Which "The people"?
Who wrote the first set of demands? Who wrote the second set?
Who implements it?
Some of the requests are perfectly sensible. Some are impossible to deliver. How is it paid for? Who takes responsibility for making it happen?
It is everything and nothing isn't it?
No, it's quite comprehensive and written by their leaders, presented to the French parliament.
I'm sorry that it's somehow too difficult for you to grasp that a protest movement has more than one demand.
I'm sure that the yellow vests are having a real crisis of confidence that you can't understand a simple list of demands.
As for your uncertainty about who is supposed to implement the demands.....
And honestly, if you are too intellectually lazy to find out who they are, that only reflects badly on you.
All of your questions are easily googled, I can't see what purpose writing them here serves, unless you've decided that not having the facts to hand somehow helps your argument."That's quite some arrogance your displaying now that you've found something you want to support without question. Be careful, you're in danger of becoming whom you despise. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Problem is ..other countries will not ..or don't want to offer the in out vote ...as the powers that be won't like the result .... Yellow vests in France are demanding one which is probably why our media is desperately trying to paint them as a fringe far right movement. The yellow vests are not an organisation with demands. They are a flash-mob of individuals. They want everything and nothing. Please point me to where "they" state what they want? Allow me to Google that for you... https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europe-make-it/france-bleu/demands-of-frances-yellow-vests-as-uploaded-by-france-bleu-november-29
Seriously?
This isn't a list of demands for everything now?
Written by whom?
The yellow vest management team?
Did this list spring forth from a drop of Zeus' blood?
Some people a spontaneously organised protest have something written on their top so that's what they all want?
The first list is followed by another "unofficial" one.
Again, who are making these demands? "The people"? Which "The people"?
Who wrote the first set of demands? Who wrote the second set?
Who implements it?
Some of the requests are perfectly sensible. Some are impossible to deliver. How is it paid for? Who takes responsibility for making it happen?
It is everything and nothing isn't it?
No, it's quite comprehensive and written by their leaders, presented to the French parliament.
I'm sorry that it's somehow too difficult for you to grasp that a protest movement has more than one demand.
I'm sure that the yellow vests are having a real crisis of confidence that you can't understand a simple list of demands.
As for your uncertainty about who is supposed to implement the demands.....
And honestly, if you are too intellectually lazy to find out who they are, that only reflects badly on you.
All of your questions are easily googled, I can't see what purpose writing them here serves, unless you've decided that not having the facts to hand somehow helps your argument.
That's quite some arrogance your displaying now that you've found something you want to support without question.
Be careful, you're in danger of becoming whom you despise."Firstly I haven't said I support anything without question, although I'm sure it suits you to think that. Secondly, accusations of arrogance coming from somebody content to criticise something from a position of little knowledge of it are rather hypocritical... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It is a common misconception amongst the extreme brexiters, although having said that I think a new eu is slowly forming starting with the slavic countries and italy, with hungary leading the way, soon the others will join, whats your view? " Yes, it will fall apart. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Britain in 2019 seems like an unhappy place. The populists have tapped into that and framed messages in the context of the country’s membership of the EU. So now we are leaving the EU. Will that lead to measurable improvement in people’s quality of life? All the evidence suggests the opposite will be true. So what happens then? The unhappiness, the discontent, if anything will be worse. Getting rid of the EU did not cure it. Which establishment will be the next to be given a good kicking by the populists? Westminster? Muslims? Jews? BME? Toffs? Socialists? Scots? Irish? I’ll lay a bet with you that the UK will fall to pieces before the EU does." Nice lazy stereotyping. I know it suits you to believe that all Brexiteers are nasty little racists, but they aren't. The irony of your post is that you rail against divisiveness whilst also managing to make devisive statements. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Britain in 2019 seems like an unhappy place. The populists have tapped into that and framed messages in the context of the country’s membership of the EU. So now we are leaving the EU. Will that lead to measurable improvement in people’s quality of life? All the evidence suggests the opposite will be true. So what happens then? The unhappiness, the discontent, if anything will be worse. Getting rid of the EU did not cure it. Which establishment will be the next to be given a good kicking by the populists? Westminster? Muslims? Jews? BME? Toffs? Socialists? Scots? Irish? I’ll lay a bet with you that the UK will fall to pieces before the EU does. Nice lazy stereotyping. I know it suits you to believe that all Brexiteers are nasty little racists, but they aren't. The irony of your post is that you rail against divisiveness whilst also managing to make devisive statements. " Division is not the problem in the uk. Brexit is. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So who do you think will get the kicking when people discover the remedy they were sold has made their lives harder, not better?" I’ll answer this as it’s started already. The target will be remainers, for not allowing the specific type of Brexit that said individual wanted. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So who do you think will get the kicking when people discover the remedy they were sold has made their lives harder, not better? I’ll answer this as it’s started already. The target will be remainers, for not allowing the specific type of Brexit that said individual wanted. " Welcome to the world of minority-bashing. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So who do you think will get the kicking when people discover the remedy they were sold has made their lives harder, not better?" The people who voted for it will blame the one's that did not when they don't like the taste of their own fruits | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Problem is ..other countries will not ..or don't want to offer the in out vote ...as the powers that be won't like the result .... Yellow vests in France are demanding one which is probably why our media is desperately trying to paint them as a fringe far right movement. The yellow vests are not an organisation with demands. They are a flash-mob of individuals. They want everything and nothing. Please point me to where "they" state what they want? Allow me to Google that for you... https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europe-make-it/france-bleu/demands-of-frances-yellow-vests-as-uploaded-by-france-bleu-november-29
Seriously?
This isn't a list of demands for everything now?
Written by whom?
The yellow vest management team?
Did this list spring forth from a drop of Zeus' blood?
Some people a spontaneously organised protest have something written on their top so that's what they all want?
The first list is followed by another "unofficial" one.
Again, who are making these demands? "The people"? Which "The people"?
Who wrote the first set of demands? Who wrote the second set?
Who implements it?
Some of the requests are perfectly sensible. Some are impossible to deliver. How is it paid for? Who takes responsibility for making it happen?
It is everything and nothing isn't it?
No, it's quite comprehensive and written by their leaders, presented to the French parliament.
I'm sorry that it's somehow too difficult for you to grasp that a protest movement has more than one demand.
I'm sure that the yellow vests are having a real crisis of confidence that you can't understand a simple list of demands.
As for your uncertainty about who is supposed to implement the demands.....
And honestly, if you are too intellectually lazy to find out who they are, that only reflects badly on you.
All of your questions are easily googled, I can't see what purpose writing them here serves, unless you've decided that not having the facts to hand somehow helps your argument.
That's quite some arrogance your displaying now that you've found something you want to support without question.
Be careful, you're in danger of becoming whom you despise.
Firstly I haven't said I support anything without question, although I'm sure it suits you to think that.
Secondly, accusations of arrogance coming from somebody content to criticise something from a position of little knowledge of it are rather hypocritical..."You have demonstrated no more knowledge of it other than some "demands" from people who generated them by what process? Funnily enough I don't "demand" that other people show me the source for my benefit. I am perfectly capable of looking myself and seeing just what you can. If it seemed credible I wouldn't be arguing you. However, beyond some idealistic ideas most which of which every government in the world would be delighted to implement if it were possible there is nothing to indicate where it has come from. They represent the protestors by virtue of what process? Where did the "unofficial" demands come from in your link. You don't know the answers to any of this. If you do then please share. What questions are you asking? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Remind me how much the UK Government gave to these countries? I thought it was the European Central Bank and IMF who bought up their debt on condition of spending cuts and privatisations." The UK along with other members were liable for their share of the bailout as the loans were secured against the EU budget. Rough estimate of about £1bn. More was directly made available to other countries such as Ireland. Not huge but my point is, is that there are a number of EU economies in not great shape and the domestic tension will be heightened in both Germany and France if future bailouts are required. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think the big crunch for the EU will come when another economy gets into trouble, take your pick from Italy, Spain or Greece again and the tax payers of Germany and France are asked to put their hands in their pockets again, but this time without support from the UK." Italy is a possibility. Greece? That problem never went away it's just sleeping for a while. Spain? Probably not, they seem to be getting their act together at last. The one that is under the radar is France. It's running a huge budget deficit and Macron doesn't seem to have any answers. At the moment it is muddling through but if say Italy went down then France would be the next domino to fall. French banks have massive exposure in Italy and the French government wouldn't be able to bail them out. Back to the OP. I very much doubt that the EU will collapse because of Britain leaving. It will certainly be wounded and vulnerable to whatever problems arise in the future. I do eventually see it falling apart, but it has got a few more years (maybe decades) of its death throes to go through first. In its current form it really cannot survive. There are just too many pulling in different directions and I see it getting a lot worse. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" In its current form it really cannot survive. There are just too many pulling in different directions and I see it getting a lot worse. " I honestly don't see it that way at all. I think people who hate the EU see problems that don't necessarily exist to support their hatred of the EU. Any problems a country has is now always blamed on the EU and not the countries own running of their own affairs. The EU will probably come out of this stronger once we leave after the dust settles. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I thought Cameron, as part of his UK/EU negotiation, had an opt-out from any Eurozone rescue, or at least a guarantee other states would refund the UK if a country actually went under?" No bailout or future bailouts would never end up actually costing the UK a single penny yet the media miss report that this bailout or that bailout has cost the UK billions. It's just lies and bullshit that people have swallowed as the truth. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Just been shopping....actually, on unpacking I looked at the origin of each product.....very little from the EU. Fully accept that this isn't a true cross section of my spending over a year, but as everyone else tends to distort facts to match their Brexit point of view, I thought that I would add some fuel to the fire. " Would be interesting to know where they came from. Despite the rumours, lots of non Eu imports are tariff free/lower than wto rates. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So who do you think will get the kicking when people discover the remedy they were sold has made their lives harder, not better? I’ll answer this as it’s started already. The target will be remainers, for not allowing the specific type of Brexit that said individual wanted. " Even better. It's the EU's fault. According to Chris Grayling. Lol you could not make this up. Leave promised voters they could quit the EU and have even better terms on the outside than on the inside. Grayling and his chums ran with this line. He even agreed a deal with the EU. Now, do you know what he says? "We want to work with the EU to reach a deal but if they are not prepared to do that – they will have to take responsibility that we are heading towards a no-deal exit." Lolol so if we leave without a deal, it is the EU's fault. Hahahahaha These people are unreal. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Just been shopping....actually, on unpacking I looked at the origin of each product.....very little from the EU. Fully accept that this isn't a true cross section of my spending over a year, but as everyone else tends to distort facts to match their Brexit point of view, I thought that I would add some fuel to the fire. Would be interesting to know where they came from. Despite the rumours, lots of non Eu imports are tariff free/lower than wto rates. " Spuds, carrots, tomatoes, cucumber and lettuce from the UK...possibly the salads come from Thanet Earth. Citrus from Israel Plums from South Africa Sweet potato from Trumpland Chillies from 2 African countries. Butternut squash from Egypt. Aubergine and Courgettes from Greece (EU!!!). Looks like I will need to find an alternative to the last 2 if the whole Brexit thing goes badly (said with massive tongue in cheek as I am sure someone will want to take offence and I am happy to oblige). | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Just been shopping....actually, on unpacking I looked at the origin of each product.....very little from the EU. Fully accept that this isn't a true cross section of my spending over a year, but as everyone else tends to distort facts to match their Brexit point of view, I thought that I would add some fuel to the fire. Would be interesting to know where they came from. Despite the rumours, lots of non Eu imports are tariff free/lower than wto rates. Spuds, carrots, tomatoes, cucumber and lettuce from the UK...possibly the salads come from Thanet Earth. Citrus from Israel Plums from South Africa Sweet potato from Trumpland Chillies from 2 African countries. Butternut squash from Egypt. Aubergine and Courgettes from Greece (EU!!!). Looks like I will need to find an alternative to the last 2 if the whole Brexit thing goes badly (said with massive tongue in cheek as I am sure someone will want to take offence and I am happy to oblige)." We have trade agreements with Israel already (admittedly I think we are close to something post brexit too). Trade agreements with SA. Trade agreements with Egypt. Everything but arms in place with many African countries. So a fair percentage may see price rises. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I hope we have something in place with Fiji. I would hate it if Brexit meant no more Fig Rolls." Agreements are provisionally applied. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Britain in 2019 seems like an unhappy place. The populists have tapped into that and framed messages in the context of the country’s membership of the EU. So now we are leaving the EU. Will that lead to measurable improvement in people’s quality of life? All the evidence suggests the opposite will be true. So what happens then? The unhappiness, the discontent, if anything will be worse. Getting rid of the EU did not cure it. Which establishment will be the next to be given a good kicking by the populists? Westminster? Muslims? Jews? BME? Toffs? Socialists? Scots? Irish? I’ll lay a bet with you that the UK will fall to pieces before the EU does. Nice lazy stereotyping. I know it suits you to believe that all Brexiteers are nasty little racists, but they aren't. The irony of your post is that you rail against divisiveness whilst also managing to make devisive statements. " You're right, not all BREXITERS nasty little racists; some are looney lefties too. One thing a lot of hard core BREXITERS have in common is that they are in favour of simplistic solutions to complex problems, whether they're from the left or the right. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Just been shopping....actually, on unpacking I looked at the origin of each product.....very little from the EU. Fully accept that this isn't a true cross section of my spending over a year, but as everyone else tends to distort facts to match their Brexit point of view, I thought that I would add some fuel to the fire. Would be interesting to know where they came from. Despite the rumours, lots of non Eu imports are tariff free/lower than wto rates. " That's because we have trade deals through the EU with many other countries outside the EU. They end when we leave. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Just been shopping....actually, on unpacking I looked at the origin of each product.....very little from the EU. Fully accept that this isn't a true cross section of my spending over a year, but as everyone else tends to distort facts to match their Brexit point of view, I thought that I would add some fuel to the fire. Would be interesting to know where they came from. Despite the rumours, lots of non Eu imports are tariff free/lower than wto rates. That's because we have trade deals through the EU with many other countries outside the EU. They end when we leave. " preaching to the converted...see later posts ! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Post new Message to Thread |
| back to top |  |
