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Politicians playing at economics

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By *thwalescpl OP   Couple
over a year ago

brecon

It doesn't work.

Roger Bootle, of Capital Economics.

"Nowhere else are countries pursuing anything like the EU's mad agenda - no single markets, no monetary unions, and no federal superstates. Unlike so many members of our elite, other countries' leaders have noticed that the EU doesn't work.

Yes , Trade Deals can be good, but you do not need them in order to trade. Currently we do not have a trade deal with the US, yet the US is our biggest single trading partner (nearly 100 bn a year in exports from the UK, and 75bn in imports).

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Oh goody, someone has an opinion on the EU. How novel.

What is your point?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Roger Bootle is extremely bias, look at the wording of his statement, it’s emotive instead of factual. He is the main guy behind Capital Economics, an anti-EU campaign group.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral


"Oh goody, someone has an opinion on the EU. How novel.

What is your point?"
It is pointing out that the EU does not bring the benefits that you think it does or perceive it does.In the long run we will benefit so much by being out despite the short term pain because of the red tape mess we have got into by stupidly joining in the first place

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral


"Roger Bootle is extremely bias, look at the wording of his statement, it’s emotive instead of factual. He is the main guy behind Capital Economics, an anti-EU campaign group. "
It is a statement of fact not sheer fantasy as project fear is

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Oh goody, someone has an opinion on the EU. How novel.

What is your point?It is pointing out that the EU does not bring the benefits that you think it does or perceive it does.In the long run we will benefit so much by being out despite the short term pain because of the red tape mess we have got into by stupidly joining in the first place"

All it does is show that the OP doesn’t know who Roger Bootle is.

Everything else you posted there is completely false.

I for one am in favour of the “red tape” of environmental protection and employment law.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Roger Bootle is extremely bias, look at the wording of his statement, it’s emotive instead of factual. He is the main guy behind Capital Economics, an anti-EU campaign group. It is a statement of fact not sheer fantasy as project fear is"

When you just make stuff up and refuse to even engage with information, the debate becomes completely pointless.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

My question was really aimed at the OP. They have cut and pasted some dude’s opinion. But what point is the OP making?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It doesn't work.

Roger Bootle, of Capital Economics.

"Nowhere else are countries pursuing anything like the EU's mad agenda - no single markets, no monetary unions, and no federal superstates. Unlike so many members of our elite, other countries' leaders have noticed that the EU doesn't work.

Yes , Trade Deals can be good, but you do not need them in order to trade. Currently we do not have a trade deal with the US, yet the US is our biggest single trading partner (nearly 100 bn a year in exports from the UK, and 75bn in imports)."

The point being made is just stupid, while factually correct it's still just bloody stupid.

Jet Aeroplanes can good but you do not need them in order to get to America, we can still get there without them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Which block of counties *could* do this ?

You’d want to be fairly well established economies whixh traded externally to make best use of additional scale.

Shared borders or at least high level of intra mobility to make good use of shared currency etc.

Probably democratic countries who are willing to work together (still democratically).

Maybe a shared history

I’d say EU are possibly unique in this way.

If the US states were separate countries I’d be putting them forward. I guess there’s an argument that says they’re not looking to break up...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm not sure if Roger Bootle has ever heard of the USA, which seems to be a federal union with a single currency. I would guess that there is probably more diversity between Alaska, California, Wyoming and Hawaii than between any European countries.

That's not to say that staying in the EU or leaving it is the right choice (it's guessing at best) but just to say that Mr Bootle appears to be speaking rubbish

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It doesn't work.

Roger Bootle, of Capital Economics.

"Nowhere else are countries pursuing anything like the EU's mad agenda - no single markets, no monetary unions, and no federal superstates. Unlike so many members of our elite, other countries' leaders have noticed that the EU doesn't work.

Yes , Trade Deals can be good, but you do not need them in order to trade. Currently we do not have a trade deal with the US, yet the US is our biggest single trading partner (nearly 100 bn a year in exports from the UK, and 75bn in imports)."

Monetary union's he is correct.

Federal superstates - well that's down to your view on the EU. However, if the EU is a federal superstate, then China is a post-imperial superstate, as is the US, arguably India too, though less so than the prior.

However, he is wrong on the single market. In Asia you have ASEAN and ACD. Both of these mean Asia sits somewhere between having a model between the EEA and the EU.

The African Economic union is pushing for more and further integration. Putting it at close to EEA levels of integration.

In Latin America there is the Mercosur - the southern common market. And again, pushing for EEA levels of integration.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It doesn't work.

Roger Bootle, of Capital Economics.

"Nowhere else are countries pursuing anything like the EU's mad agenda - no single markets, no monetary unions, and no federal superstates. Unlike so many members of our elite, other countries' leaders have noticed that the EU doesn't work.

Yes , Trade Deals can be good, but you do not need them in order to trade. Currently we do not have a trade deal with the US, yet the US is our biggest single trading partner (nearly 100 bn a year in exports from the UK, and 75bn in imports).

Monetary union's he is correct.

Federal superstates - well that's down to your view on the EU. However, if the EU is a federal superstate, then China is a post-imperial superstate, as is the US, arguably India too, though less so than the prior.

However, he is wrong on the single market. In Asia you have ASEAN and ACD. Both of these mean Asia sits somewhere between having a model between the EEA and the EU.

The African Economic union is pushing for more and further integration. Putting it at close to EEA levels of integration.

In Latin America there is the Mercosur - the southern common market. And again, pushing for EEA levels of integration. "

It's almost as if cooperation works

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"It doesn't work.

Roger Bootle, of Capital Economics.

"Nowhere else are countries pursuing anything like the EU's mad agenda - no single markets, no monetary unions, and no federal superstates. Unlike so many members of our elite, other countries' leaders have noticed that the EU doesn't work.

Yes , Trade Deals can be good, but you do not need them in order to trade. Currently we do not have a trade deal with the US, yet the US is our biggest single trading partner (nearly 100 bn a year in exports from the UK, and 75bn in imports)."

Actually the bit with regards to single markets isn’t true as even the us are part of nafta.... and one of the options the uk were looking to do was become of tpp when they leave the eu

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It doesn't work.

Roger Bootle, of Capital Economics.

"Nowhere else are countries pursuing anything like the EU's mad agenda - no single markets, no monetary unions, and no federal superstates. Unlike so many members of our elite, other countries' leaders have noticed that the EU doesn't work.

Yes , Trade Deals can be good, but you do not need them in order to trade. Currently we do not have a trade deal with the US, yet the US is our biggest single trading partner (nearly 100 bn a year in exports from the UK, and 75bn in imports).

Monetary union's he is correct.

Federal superstates - well that's down to your view on the EU. However, if the EU is a federal superstate, then China is a post-imperial superstate, as is the US, arguably India too, though less so than the prior.

However, he is wrong on the single market. In Asia you have ASEAN and ACD. Both of these mean Asia sits somewhere between having a model between the EEA and the EU.

The African Economic union is pushing for more and further integration. Putting it at close to EEA levels of integration.

In Latin America there is the Mercosur - the southern common market. And again, pushing for EEA levels of integration.

It's almost as if cooperation works "

It's almost like the bulk of trade is done with your neighbours too.

It's almost like the more you develop as a country, and the more developed your neighbours are, the more there is to trade, the less restrictions to trade people want, and the more conflict arises if you put barriers in the way.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

The guy Bootle appears to be describing the United Kingdom.

A model of fiscal, monetary and political union, with a single currency, that has endured for 300 + years.

Albeit one that is highly centralised rather than federal in nature.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

He appears also to ignore BRICS - the economic alliance of Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa. One of their objectives is to replace the $ as the international currency with the Yuan.

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By *avidnsa69Man
over a year ago

Essex & Bridgend


"Roger Bootle is extremely bias, look at the wording of his statement, it’s emotive instead of factual. He is the main guy behind Capital Economics, an anti-EU campaign group. It is a statement of fact not sheer fantasy as project fear is"

It's not fact, it's his opinion

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By *thwalescpl OP   Couple
over a year ago

brecon


"My question was really aimed at the OP. They have cut and pasted some dude’s opinion. But what point is the OP making?"

My point is, the EU is all about people who know nothing about global economics pushing their federalist agenda on us, without any real knowledge of how to make it work financially.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

The people who regulate the second largest free market in the world know nothing about economics?

Yeah, sure.

You do know the EU is made up of countries like, em, er, the UK, yeah?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I thought the EU was run by big business for big business. Surely big business knows about making money ?

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich


"I thought the EU was run by big business for big business. Surely big business knows about making money ?"
No its run by failed mp,s who can still milk the public after their shelf life in their own country has ran out.Jobs for the boys with fantastic wages,benifits,low taxes and pensions surely you have worked that much out by now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I thought the EU was run by big business for big business. Surely big business knows about making money ?No its run by failed mp,s who can still milk the public after their shelf life in their own country has ran out.Jobs for the boys with fantastic wages,benifits,low taxes and pensions surely you have worked that much out by now."
i get confused which of failed MPs, big business, the illuminati is the en vogue boogieman. I guess it depends what argument your fighting.

But it’s good to know the people who will be looking after our economy once we are out of the EU are a very different type of person than when we were in.

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By *thwalescpl OP   Couple
over a year ago

brecon


"The people who regulate the second largest free market in the world know nothing about economics?

Yeah, sure.

You do know the EU is made up of countries like, em, er, the UK, yeah?

"

"free market"?

There is nothing "free" about trading with the EU.

If you are a member, you pay billions in, and if you aren't, you have tariffs placed on your goods.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London


"It doesn't work.

Roger Bootle, of Capital Economics.

"Nowhere else are countries pursuing anything like the EU's mad agenda - no single markets, no monetary unions, and no federal superstates. Unlike so many members of our elite, other countries' leaders have noticed that the EU doesn't work.

Yes , Trade Deals can be good, but you do not need them in order to trade. Currently we do not have a trade deal with the US, yet the US is our biggest single trading partner (nearly 100 bn a year in exports from the UK, and 75bn in imports)."

Actually, our biggest trading partner is the EU.

We also have a whole range of agreements in place with them. China too.

Try looking it up.

Multi-nation trade deals are complex but far more rewarding than bilateral ones. Especially if one party is significantly bigger.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

I read somewhere that while the EU and US do not have a free-trade agreement, they do have 100 or so agreements in specific sectors. These will no longer apply to the UK under the No Deal exit.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"

"free market"?

There is nothing "free" about trading with the EU.

If you are a member, you pay billions in, and if you aren't, you have tariffs placed on your goods.

"

It costs money to regulate markets.

We have been paying into a pot along with 32 or so other states towards the cost of that.

Those costs do not go away when we leave, because the UK has to replicate the various regulators for the new UK market.

Whether that will be cheaper or more expensive is probably a question no-one will ever agree on.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"

"free market"?

There is nothing "free" about trading with the EU.

If you are a member, you pay billions in, and if you aren't, you have tariffs placed on your goods.

"

But it is the WTO rules that tariffs must be placed if there is not a trade deal in place... not the EU!

You are the one who wants a no deal... that’s a consequence of a no deal! Your schedule has to be approved by 168 different countries and any one has a right of objection

Funny enough it has been the likes of Australia, New Zealand and India amongst others that have objected... so maybe you want to point some of your fury at them

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Sounds like a great option to be in the EU, just for these massive benefits for trading, the economy, not to mention having to try to match or better all of the many trade agreements that we've benefited from, due to our efforts and investment into the EU. No brainer.

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