FabSwingers.com forum: brexit vote

By *lay 4 u OP Man
over a year ago

bolton

What's the point of a vote ? . If people don't accept it from brexit to Scottish independance and sturgeon ( wiliam Wallace ).do we just keep having votes.

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By *p2norfolkngoodMan
over a year ago

Norwich

"What's the point of a vote ? . If people don't accept it from brexit to Scottish independance and sturgeon ( wiliam Wallace ).do we just keep having votes."

When people voted to leave they had no idea what the deal would look like and if the government is allowed to blindly accept a sub standard deal from the EU you're happy with that are you?

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By *anDare70Man
over a year ago

kirkby

"What's the point of a vote ? . If people don't accept it from brexit to Scottish independance and sturgeon ( wiliam Wallace ).do we just keep having votes."

Guess you'd buy a house without looking round it and only being told how great it might be.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

"What's the point of a vote ? . If people don't accept it from brexit to Scottish independance and sturgeon ( wiliam Wallace ).do we just keep having votes."

If you were offered a vote and the only two options were 'tea or coffee'...........would you be happy when you discovered that whichever one you voted for was made with cats piss rather than water?

Because voting for something when you don't know the specifics is asking for trouble.

It's why at general elections parties have manifestos. You know what you're voting for. I don't recall seeing any specifics during the referendum.

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By *lay 4 u OP Man
over a year ago

bolton

The idea they had was to leave . I belive in this country and that we will grow from strength to strength.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It was a blind vote.

And a ridiculous position to put the country in without first looking to see what sort of deal would be on offer.

It happened the reverse way it should have.

So now... We know the deal on offer and its shit.

So now we vote to see if we accept the shit offer.

Did anyone though... Anyone... Really believe we would get a decent one?

Really?

From Europe?

Running back to Norway as fast as legs will carry me.

Yall fucked it right up.

Sorry.

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By *anDare70Man
over a year ago

kirkby

"The idea they had was to leave . I belive in this country and that we will grow from strength to strength. "

Based on what? Economics? The lucrative trade deals we’ve been offered? The money thats going to pour into the NHS?

You cant set a strategic direction for a Nation purely on hope

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By *unglebook40Man
over a year ago

hull

Anyone who believes if the UK has another vote to stay or leave are deluded. Even if we did and this time it was stay, the EU more than likely wouldn't accept a change of mind, we're leaving so accept it, just with out a deal.

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By *lay 4 u OP Man
over a year ago

bolton

Let's be clear the eu don't want a hard . So do we just keep having votes until remain win . Sturgeon off again wants another vote and independence vote on Scotland it's about time democracy is accepted.

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By *rench letterCouple
over a year ago

Chorley,

Bring on the 2nd referendum.

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By *anDare70Man
over a year ago

kirkby

"Anyone who believes if the UK has another vote to stay or leave are deluded. Even if we did and this time it was stay, the EU more than likely wouldn't accept a change of mind, we're leaving so accept it, just with out a deal."

Wrong. Its been said by the EU we have the right not to enfore exit neither could they make us if we chose not to leave.

Enough of the inaccuracies.

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By *lay 4 u OP Man
over a year ago

bolton

Bring on democracy. If you don't agree with the next genral election shall have a bet of three

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By *lay 4 u OP Man
over a year ago

bolton

I'll bet they will . They will have a massive short fall in the coffers

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"Bring on democracy. If you don't agree with the next genral election shall have a bet of three"
Yeah and if thats not good enough go for the best of five.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Bring on the 2nd referendum."

What will this solve. People will likely vote again to flush this country down the shitter.

I don't buy the, we know what a clusterfuck it is now, bollocks. We knew the first time around and people either didn't care because we will get "sovereignty" or less brown people knocking around, or they just believed the bullshit spouted by Farage and the far right about some magic nonsensical trade deal with who-ever-the-fuck.

Just look at the leavers who post here. They still ignore all the information and believe that fairies will fix everything after we are out of the EU.

Westminster need to sort this shit out and do the right thing by halting this suicidal path into the abyss that the UK is on.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Bring on democracy. If you don't agree with the next genral election shall have a bet of threeYeah and if thats not good enough go for the best of five.

There is a general election at least every five years. We're way beyond five at this point.

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By *lay 4 u OP Man
over a year ago

bolton

We have been going to the eu bring a bottle party long enough. We bring the bottles along with three or four more and the rest bring along glasses to be filled.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"What's the point of a vote ? . If people don't accept it from brexit to Scottish independance and sturgeon ( wiliam Wallace ).do we just keep having votes.

When people voted to leave they had no idea what the deal would look like and if the government is allowed to blindly accept a sub standard deal from the EU you're happy with that are you?"
May has just done a really bad job and negotiating the deal,she should not be allowed to negotiate this,she should just do other things that a PM has to do.I believe that I should get the job,I know exactly how I would do it but I will never get the chance.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"We have been going to the eu bring a bottle party long enough. We bring the bottles along with three or four more and the rest bring along glasses to be filled."
Junkers brings a bucket we all know he likes a drink.

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By *udewhennudeMan
over a year ago

newport

Wrong , we can unilaterally withdraw a50 at any time up until we leave.

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By *lay 4 u OP Man
over a year ago

bolton

Why would we withdraw when the majority voted to leave ? To please the minority who can't accept democracy.

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By *udewhennudeMan
over a year ago

newport

"Why would we withdraw when the majority voted to leave ? To please the minority who can't accept democracy. "

Only a third of those entitled to vote voted to leave. May lost an election on her version of brexit, she has no mandate to force a bad deal on those who want to stay. Democracy is fluid, hence why we have a general election every 5 years. By time we actually leave, with the transition it could be nearly 5 years since the referendum.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"Why would we withdraw when the majority voted to leave ? To please the minority who can't accept democracy.

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By *lay 4 u OP Man
over a year ago

bolton

Good point well put

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So I have read that politicians are voting no to the deal as they have vested interests abroad. Properties and money invested. Not all Cons either.

These people should be banned from voting as they have personal vested interests and are not following their regions voters wishes. Name and shame and dont vote them in again.

Out means out. May has tried to please both sides as the vote was so close. What a mess but they are only people.

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

"What's the point of a vote ? . If people don't accept it from brexit to Scottish independance and sturgeon ( wiliam Wallace ).do we just keep having votes."

It can't be put back to the people. If politicians are a majority mix of lawyers, business exces, Dr's, Whitehall careerists, publicly educated professionals who have difficulty understanding the detail of the agreement (despite being able to discuss it with colleagues at will). How can Joe public vote with full knowledge of what is contained in a 585 page text and any supporting documents.

MP's should have had a free vote this evening.

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By *lay 4 u OP Man
over a year ago

bolton

Right so in five more yrs we may want to leave again .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What's the point of a vote ? . If people don't accept it from brexit to Scottish independance and sturgeon ( wiliam Wallace ).do we just keep having votes.

If you were offered a vote and the only two options were 'tea or coffee'...........would you be happy when you discovered that whichever one you voted for was made with cats piss rather than water?

Because voting for something when you don't know the specifics is asking for trouble.

It's why at general elections parties have manifestos. You know what you're voting for. I don't recall seeing any specifics during the referendum.

No. But I would be pretty pissed off if I asked for coffee and the person I asked did everything they could to try to give me tea after I had made my decision and made it clear.

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By *amantMan
over a year ago

Alnmouth

This is factually incorrect. We can revoke article 50 and fall back on exactly the same conditions we currently enjoy - should we choose to do so.

However it is my belief that won't happen. The no-confidence vote will unfortunately fail, Corbyn will then have to push for something else (be it a second referendum or an extension of article 50) with the latter being more likely. I think either would pass given the risk of us falling into a no-deal scenario almost by default.

I think a second referendum or a general election is inevitable really. There isn't a majority for any version of brexit because it was always going to be divisive given how open to interpretation it was on the ballot paper in 2016.

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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago

Wakefield

Guess you'd buy a house without looking round it and only being told how great it might be. "

The point is 2 years down the line we still do not know what the trading relationship would be.

The deal voted on last night had nothing to do with the future trading relationship with the EU.

Talks on that will not start until 29 March

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"Why would we withdraw when the majority voted to leave ? To please the minority who can't accept democracy. "

No.

To avoid the tyranny of madness.

Nobody voted for the country to be poorer and less influential in the world. As I recall a Brexit rallying cry was... “There are no downsides to Brexit, only considerable upsides.” (And as usual, the rhetoric is just an empty shell).

The reality is that Charlarans and snake oil salesmen made out the EU and our fellow European citizens to be the enemy of the state whereas the truth is that ALL of our problems are our own. Successive shit Governments malevolently disregarding their responsibilities. Surely the gross incompetence of this latest shower of shit is clear enough as an example of just how crap our politicians have been - and it has been going on for decades.

What needs to happen is for A50 to be revoked and we all put as much energy into fixing U.K. politics as been spent blaming the EU for everything bad in the world.

The EU is a red herring and is being inappropriately used as a scapegoat. On the scale of things wrong with this country it does not even make the top ten.

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By *lay 4 u OP Man
over a year ago

bolton

So your happy to keep pouring money into the pot to keep building other country's infrastructure while we crumble. If you want to belong to the EU let's have a club we're we all pay into it. And while we're at it closing the jooly boys outing club of meps starting with Blair couple of new hospitals there.

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

"Why would we withdraw when the majority voted to leave ? To please the minority who can't accept democracy.

No.

To avoid the tyranny of madness.

What needs to happen is for A50 to be revoked and we all put as much energy into fixing U.K. politics as been spent blaming the EU for everything bad in the world.

The EU is a red herring and is being inappropriately used as a scapegoat. On the scale of things wrong with this country it does not even make the top ten."

The number of fiscal studies reported pre referendum stating the economy would be worse off, including Mark Carney who was thought to be influencing voter decisions - whether in the short term these have been debunked or not. You can't say that people didn't vote Leave without knowledge of the possibility of financial instability.

Surely this latest shower of shit, is due to respective WTO Euro sceptics binding with the opposition benches and nothing specifically to do with the deal itself. I.e, it is neither hard enough nor includes enough (aside from worker and environmental issues and I can't work out Labours position sorry). There is obviously the Irish issue which seemed to be resolved to me through caveats. One being the EU paying millions if it went over deadline where we wouldn't.

I agree A50 is a red herring, it has been needless and a waste of time, money and thought when the UK should have been focusing on investing for the future.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So your happy to keep pouring money into the pot to keep building other country's infrastructure while we crumble. If you want to belong to the EU let's have a club we're we all pay into it. And while we're at it closing the jooly boys outing club of meps starting with Blair couple of new hospitals there. "

Given the promises of expenditure by the government where is the money coming from? You look at what Brexit is costing us, plus the promises made it's well over £350m!

So why haven't we been doing it before? Had we spent on infrastructure instead of austerity we could have been in a much better position!

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Given the promises of expenditure by the government where is the money coming from? You look at what Brexit is costing us, plus the promises made it's well over £350m!

So why haven't we been doing it before? Had we spent on infrastructure instead of austerity we could have been in a much better position!"

This.. And if anyone thinks that the government will suddenly carry on the investments in some of our poorest areas that have received Eu funding then wake up..

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By *lay 4 u OP Man
over a year ago

bolton

And what about the billions pumped into Romania and the likes. Why do you think country like Turkey are desperate to join. We could send that money here. Look at some of the member states 40 yrs ago and now put nothing in like they have received.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

The European Regional Development Fund is what you are referring.

It invests up to 50 per cent of the cost of infrastructure improvements - roads, airports, ports and the like - in regions where the GDP is below 70 per cent of the European average.

The other 50 per cent comes from the government of the area.

By improving the infrastructure in weaker areas, it aims to stimulate economic development to help these areas grow.

Conversely, as the GDP gets closer to the European average, so the desire of local people to migrate to more prosperous countries will diminish.

I believe we are seeing this effect in Poland now, with more Poles choosing to return home because the prospects in their own country now are better.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"And what about the billions pumped into Romania and the likes. Why do you think country like Turkey are desperate to join. We could send that money here. Look at some of the member states 40 yrs ago and now put nothing in like they have received. "

You are the poster boy for not having another referendum.

This kind of misinformation and misunderstanding about the EU is rife. Even when it’s explained to you in simple terms, as the above poster has.

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By *lay 4 u OP Man
over a year ago

bolton

Poster boy are we reverting to name calling?. And yes I fully understand but that dose not mean I have to agree with it. And which ever way you dress it up we pay more than we receive.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Poster boy are we reverting to name calling?. And yes I fully understand but that dose not mean I have to agree with it. And which ever way you dress it up we pay more than we receive. "

No not name calling. I just used your misinformation and misunderstanding of the complexities of the situation as an example.

I’m against another referendum. Mostly because of the huge amount of bogus information pumped out. Nothing seems to have changed since the first referendum. So I can’t see anything other than the same result.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"Poster boy are we reverting to name calling?. And yes I fully understand but that dose not mean I have to agree with it. And which ever way you dress it up we pay more than we receive. "
Cant argue with that,thats why they dont want us to leave.

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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"Poster boy are we reverting to name calling?. And yes I fully understand but that dose not mean I have to agree with it. And which ever way you dress it up we pay more than we receive. "

Whichever way you dress it up it will cost us more to be out than we were (net) paying in.

-Matt

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By *lay 4 u OP Man
over a year ago

bolton

How?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How? "

You have to be trolling. There’s no way anyone should be asking this.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

The UK is a nett contributor.

That is true when you measure money going into the pot and grants going out of the pot.

Membership is more than just the balance sheet of public expenditure.

The UK spends public money on membership because it gives UK business unfettered access to the second largest market in the world.

That in turn generates economic development in the UK, which in turn generates revenue for the Government in taxation.

That is a more indirect return on the UK Government investment.

No-one is suggesting all that suddenly will dry up. But every reasonable assessment suggests UK economic activity currently attributable to trade in the single market will diminish.

Factor in those costs - loss of taxation, UB40 pay-outs etc - and then you have a truer picture about the value or otherwise of UK Government payments into the pot.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The UK is a nett contributor.

That is true when you measure money going into the pot and grants going out of the pot.

Membership is more than just the balance sheet of public expenditure.

The UK spends public money on membership because it gives UK business unfettered access to the second largest market in the world.

That in turn generates economic development in the UK, which in turn generates revenue for the Government in taxation.

That is a more indirect return on the UK Government investment.

No-one is suggesting all that suddenly will dry up. But every reasonable assessment suggests UK economic activity currently attributable to trade in the single market will diminish.

Factor in those costs - loss of taxation, UB40 pay-outs etc - and then you have a truer picture about the value or otherwise of UK Government payments into the pot."

You’re patience in calmly explaining this over and over is admirable.