FabSwingers.com forum: John bercow

By *ab_Sparkles OP Woman
over a year ago

sparkle Surprised

I'm no full on politics person but while watching PMQs, live online i got a tad confused about what he had done. I got lost when they started quoting from parliament rules

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"I'm no full on politics person but while watching PMQs, live online i got a tad confused about what he had done. I got lost when they started quoting from parliament rules

I too am a bit confused, but the gist of it as I understand is that once a Motion has been agreed by the House (but not yet passed into law) it can only be amended immediately after (forthwith is the words I think) or by an amendment that is tabled by a Minister.

The suggestion is that because this is an amendment to a Motion that was passed last month, it should not be able to be amended by a backbencher.

There was considerable ironic confusion in parliament yesterday. With Andrea Leadsom asking for a legal opinion, Brexiters fusrious at the Speaker whilst the Brexit Darling Rees Mogg was very supportive of Bercow.

Personally speaking, I think that the Speaker acted for Parliament (as he should) and prevented any possibility of the current Government once again trying to deny MP's a voice in the process.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

I think it was because he ignored legal advice and went against parliamentary procedure to allow an amendment which would further hamper the government,he is in a job where he is supposed to be impartial and not let personal beliefs sway him but they say because he is a remainer he went against the legal advice he was serving his self beliefs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My understanding is a business motion (when something is to be discussed) cant be ammended, at least, that’s what previous convention says.

My guess is that while this is what precendence suggests, he took the view that these were unique circumstances given the Huge opposition to plan A meant plan B would need to be significantly different, and waiting three weeks may be seen to be not giving the house enough time given the March deadline.l, and that the house should be given the chance to decide if it wanted to hear plan B earlier. It did.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My understanding is a business motion (when something is to be discussed) cant be ammended, at least, that’s what previous convention says.

It showed leadership which is sadly lacking at the moment. What it does is it "makes" things happen as opposed to "sitting on the fence", which has got to be good for all sides!

We need certainty very quickly so plans can be made.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"I'm no full on politics person but while watching PMQs, live online i got a tad confused about what he had done. I got lost when they started quoting from parliament rules

I doubt if many, including some in the House, understand these rules. Archaic.

For a supposedly modern democracy, Westminster does cling to some very antiquated and opaque practices.

Your point is a bit of a technicality for the anoraks. The key bit is that Parliament is asserting control, which no-one can argue with, surely.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm no full on politics person but while watching PMQs, live online i got a tad confused about what he had done. I got lost when they started quoting from parliament rules

I doubt if many, including some in the House, understand these rules. Archaic.

For a supposedly modern democracy, Westminster does cling to some very antiquated and opaque practices.

Your point is a bit of a technicality for the anoraks. The key bit is that Parliament is asserting control, which no-one can argue with, surely."

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By *rench letterCouple
over a year ago

Chorley,

All I can say is well done to him. As it needs to get sorted quickly not be drawn out any longer. Business needs to know what's happening.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

Bercow has publicly admitted he voted for remain. His actions yesterday by breaking all previous precedent and going against the advise of parliamentary advisors shows he is not neutral in this anymore, and has shown bias towards remain. The job of speaker is duty bound to be neutral which he has broken.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Bercow has publicly admitted he voted for remain. His actions yesterday by breaking all previous precedent and going against the advise of parliamentary advisors shows he is not neutral in this anymore, and has shown bias towards remain. The job of speaker is duty bound to be neutral which he has broken. "

The bit I’m struggling with is how this helps remain ?

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By *rench letterCouple
over a year ago

Chorley,

Well at least he got sense by voting remain. Might mean with what he did getting things sorted a bit quicker.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

The bit I’m struggling with is how this helps remain ?"

Because he allowed the ammendment yesterday which helped the remainers in Parliament. Brexiteers were saying the ammendment should not have been allowed, broke all previous precedent, and it's also looking like Parliamentary advisors advised Bercow against his decision but he did it anyway. Peter Bone, a Brexiteer MP also said yesterday he tried to put his own ammendment but was told he wasn't allowed. Why was Dominic Grieve's ammendment allowed and Peter Bone's wasn't? It stinks to high heaven that there is an establishment stitch up being orchestrated in Parliament.

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By *rench letterCouple
over a year ago

Chorley,

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

Well at least he got sense by voting remain. Might mean with what he did getting things sorted a bit quicker. "

You don't get it. He should not be revealing how he voted to anyone! His job requires him to remain impartial and neutral and he's not done that by revealing how he voted in the referendum.

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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

How do you think precedent gets set, Centy?

-Matt

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By *ab_Sparkles OP Woman
over a year ago

sparkle Surprised

Thank you i don't feel like bevis an butt head now.

back to watching them row it's so funny it's like a night out an you're mate's had to much drink and you're sat there trying not to knowledge there with you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The bit I’m struggling with is how this helps remain ?

I get it helps *somehow* given the sheer ferocity if noise by leavers against it. But I don’t understand why. None of the above has helped me get any further other than to confirm brexiteers are unhappy !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He's a hero to the Country and should be knighted

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

the precedent he set was breaking the rules,but hey ho he thinks a word means something different to everyone else its ok cause hes in the seat.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"the precedent he set was breaking the rules,but hey ho he thinks a word means something different to everyone else its ok cause hes in the seat."

Following leave campaigns then?

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"He's a hero to the Country and should be knighted

"
No hero of mine whatever he does but seems to have escaped the bullying charges.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Looks like the government way around this is to only allow a 90 minute debate on the grieve motion....

The government are going to be accused of stifling debate on alternatives and is going to piss off everybody

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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

*stares at his Brexit bingo card*

Have we had ‘enemy of the people’ yet?

-Matt

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The bit I’m struggling with is how this helps remain ?

Peter bone's a fucking prick that's why

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"*stares at his Brexit bingo card*

Have we had ‘enemy of the people’ yet?

-Matt"

Yes, that's the independent judiciary of the United Kingdom so he can't have that Title

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Btw what was Bones amendment ?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

The world that some live in is amazing, because the vote was to leave the thinking that all the high offices of state and the judiciary where people voted to remain should have been rescinded post the vote and replaced by true and loyal leavers..

Is it just me or is that way of thinking akin to pol pot, North Korea and Orwells 1984 dystopian hell..?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Btw what was Bones amendment ?"

To have separate seating areas on public transport for women?

Kids, well Northern ones up chimneys?

Being facetious I know but the sooner such doddery old empirical thinking he often comes out with is confined to the history books the better..

Never once on all the years he's been an Mp have ever heard him say anything other than anti EU rhetoric, never about schools, the NHS, welfare etc..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Btw what was Bones amendment ?

To have separate seating areas on public transport for women?

Kids, well Northern ones up chimneys?

Being facetious I know but the sooner such doddery old empirical thinking he often comes out with is confined to the history books the better..

Never once on all the years he's been an Mp have ever heard him say anything other than anti EU rhetoric, never about schools, the NHS, welfare etc.. "

He's bedmates with Christopher Chope, an even bigger prick

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

Bercow interpreted the word "forthwith" differently to anyone else.

He took advice from the Clerk of the Commons, who knows all about the rules, conventions etc, and decided to ignore his advice.

Bercow has been on a collision course with the Government for a long time now, and him and Andrea Leadsom have some previous.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

The bit I’m struggling with is how this helps remain ?

How does it help "Remain"? Even super Brexiter Rees-Mogg is in agreement with Bercow.

It helps Parliament and it helps everyone who is against Theresa May's deal because it gives those who oppose it more time to come up with an alternative.

If you are against Theresa May's deal, then you should be supportive of the amendment because your side will now have more time to argue their case.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Bercow interpreted the word "forthwith" differently to anyone else.

He took advice from the Clerk of the Commons, who knows all about the rules, conventions etc, and decided to ignore his advice.

Bercow has been on a collision course with the Government for a long time now, and him and Andrea Leadsom have some previous."

Thought it was a tad ironic of Leadsome wanting the advice published, given the government had to be dragged screaming and kicking over the recent legal advice.

Very true on Bercow and some of his own party, they want shot of him soonest..

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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"*stares at his Brexit bingo card*

Have we had ‘enemy of the people’ yet?

-Matt

Yes, that's the independent judiciary of the United Kingdom so he can't have that Title

Oh I’ve filled my card a few times since then. This the new 2019 game

-Matt

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He's a hero to the Country and should be knighted

No hero of mine whatever he does but seems to have escaped the bullying charges."

I bet he was every brexiteers hero in 2013 when he allowed an amendment in the queens speech to allow a referendum on the membership of the EU? No complaint when it's in your favour eh?

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By *igsteve43Man
over a year ago

derby

"He's a hero to the Country and should be knighted

Actually in any other workplace he would be sacked for gross misconduct

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By *ab_Sparkles OP Woman
over a year ago

sparkle Surprised

What gets me how long they sit there john and those clarks in never need the loo. Do they teleport like knokes

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"He's a hero to the Country and should be knighted

I said the same thing about Nigel Farage. Tell you what, give Nigel Farage a Knighthood and I'd be happy to see John Bercow get one.

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By *tace 309TV/TS
over a year ago

durham

"He's a hero to the Country and should be knighted

"
what an absolutely stupid remark ..this guy should have been sacked . he is arrogant and smarmy .he only held onto his position with the help of his remain croonies .obviously some connection there to come out with a comment like that

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Looks like the government way around this is to only allow a 90 minute debate on the grieve motion....

The government are going to be accused of stifling debate on alternatives and is going to piss off everybody "

If Bercow can bend the rules and play dirty, you can damn well expect the government to start playing dirty now too.

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By *tace 309TV/TS
over a year ago

durham

Well at least he got sense by voting remain. Might mean with what he did getting things sorted a bit quicker. "
a typical remain trait that .calling all those who voted leave stupid and dim . . I beg to differ . I have,as much sense as Anyone who voted with their head and heart on both sides not with their nose

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

The bit I’m struggling with is how this helps remain ?

How does it help "Remain"? Even super Brexiter Rees-Mogg is in agreement with Bercow.

It helps Parliament and it helps everyone who is against Theresa May's deal because it gives those who oppose it more time to come up with an alternative.

If you are against Theresa May's deal, then you should be supportive of the amendment because your side will now have more time to argue their case."

Rees Mogg got a dictionary out yesterday in the Commons and had to read the meaning of the word "forthwith" out to Bercow as Bercow doesn't seem to understand what it means. That's not being in agreement that is disagreeing of what 'forthwith' means.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He's a hero to the Country and should be knighted

Actually in any other workplace he would be sacked for gross misconduct"

Don't think so. Gross misconduct is an entirely different thing. He as Speaker of the House, stood up against a government trying to deprive the House of it's divine sovereignty. The fact that he did it in 2013 and now 6 years later to get a "hung parliament " to move "one way or another " to make some decision. The government were and are trying to do whatever they can to get their deal through - by fair means or foul, he has given direction and there will be a way forward Leave No Deal, Leave Deal or 3rd option - not having been decided yet. So at least it's stops the impasse which is good for all sides!

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

The bit I’m struggling with is how this helps remain ?

How does it help "Remain"? Even super Brexiter Rees-Mogg is in agreement with Bercow.

It helps Parliament and it helps everyone who is against Theresa May's deal because it gives those who oppose it more time to come up with an alternative.

If you are against Theresa May's deal, then you should be supportive of the amendment because your side will now have more time to argue their case.

In an interview outside of Parliament after the vote he said that he was in agreement with Bercow.

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By *ab_Sparkles OP Woman
over a year ago

sparkle Surprised

Think I need to make a policatian a coffee and have a nice chat

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"Looks like the government way around this is to only allow a 90 minute debate on the grieve motion....

The government are going to be accused of stifling debate on alternatives and is going to piss off everybody

If Bercow can bend the rules and play dirty, you can damn well expect the government to start playing dirty now too. "

Thought you objected to May's deal?

You should be pleased that your side will now have more time to push their alternative plan.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"He's a hero to the Country and should be knighted

Actually in any other workplace he would be sacked for gross misconduct"

Rubbish.

This is what happens when people get their news in meme's from inside their own echo chamber.

He is the best Speaker that Parliament has had that I can ever remember.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well at least he got sense by voting remain. Might mean with what he did getting things sorted a bit quicker. a typical remain trait that .calling all those who voted leave stupid and dim . . I beg to differ . I have,as much sense as Anyone who voted with their head and heart on both sides not with their nose "

And what issues cause you to vote leave?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’m going to ask again .... why do leavers hate this ammendment so? What advantage does it give remainers ?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"He's a hero to the Country and should be knighted

Actually in any other workplace he would be sacked for gross misconduct"

Let's hope that with your misinterpretation of what constitutes gross misconduct that your not in a management role..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He's a hero to the Country and should be knighted

I said the same thing about Nigel Farage. Tell you what, give Nigel Farage a Knighthood and I'd be happy to see John Bercow get one. "

Done

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He's a hero to the Country and should be knighted

what an absolutely stupid remark ..this guy should have been sacked . he is arrogant and smarmy .he only held onto his position with the help of his remain croonies .obviously some connection there to come out with a comment like that "

No need to get your knickers in a twist

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’m going to ask again .... why do leavers hate this ammendment so? What advantage does it give remainers ?"

I think because "they think" it reduces the chance of a no deal crash out BREXIT so their getting hot & bothered about it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’m going to ask again .... why do leavers hate this ammendment so? What advantage does it give remainers ?

I think because "they think" it reduces the chance of a no deal crash out BREXIT so their getting hot & bothered about it

I realise you’re second guessing, but why does it reduce the chance of a no deal? Taking a course of action simply because we run out of time feels like it goes against all things democratic and sovereign. If no deal is the right thing it’s the right thing with a months debate or two month. Indeed the more time we have to manage a no deal, the better surely ?

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

dont know if hes still married but his mrs was as hot as fuck.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’m going to ask again .... why do leavers hate this ammendment so? What advantage does it give remainers ?

I think because "they think" it reduces the chance of a no deal crash out BREXIT so their getting hot & bothered about it

Because of the fiscal constraints it may burden the Government with regarding taxation policy in the event of a no deal crash out.

I'm not specifying how much of a reduction of chance at all, but there will be some to an extent.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’m going to ask again .... why do leavers hate this ammendment so? What advantage does it give remainers ?

I think because "they think" it reduces the chance of a no deal crash out BREXIT so their getting hot & bothered about it

Because of the fiscal constraints it may burden the Government with regarding taxation policy in the event of a no deal crash out.

I'm not specifying how much of a reduction of chance at all, but there will be some to an extent.

"
in my head if parliament rejects plan A and B quicker, it has more tome to proactively vote in no deal and so the tax restrictions won’t apply. Doesn’t that put the nondealers in a stronger position ?

Leavers? Can you help us here ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’m going to ask again .... why do leavers hate this ammendment so? What advantage does it give remainers ?

I think because "they think" it reduces the chance of a no deal crash out BREXIT so their getting hot & bothered about it

Because of the fiscal constraints it may burden the Government with regarding taxation policy in the event of a no deal crash out.

I'm not specifying how much of a reduction of chance at all, but there will be some to an extent.

in my head if parliament rejects plan A and B quicker, it has more tome to proactively vote in no deal and so the tax restrictions won’t apply. Doesn’t that put the nondealers in a stronger position ?

Leavers? Can you help us here ?"

In that scenario I think yes it would.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"I’m going to ask again .... why do leavers hate this ammendment so? What advantage does it give remainers ?

I think because "they think" it reduces the chance of a no deal crash out BREXIT so their getting hot & bothered about it

Because of the fiscal constraints it may burden the Government with regarding taxation policy in the event of a no deal crash out.

I'm not specifying how much of a reduction of chance at all, but there will be some to an extent.

Leavers? Can you help us here ?"

Or it allows more time after May's plan b and the 29th for another option other than no deal which has cross party support to be voted on, perhaps moved by a minister or whomever as an amendment..

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

He is doing his best to get us to leave with no deal,is he a Russian apy?

I am not joking by the way this is not my usual sarcasm

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"He is doing his best to get us to leave with no deal,is he a Russian apy?

I am not joking by the way this is not my usual sarcasm"
spy not apy lol

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By *igsteve43Man
over a year ago

derby

"He's a hero to the Country and should be knighted

Actually in any other workplace he would be sacked for gross misconduct

Rubbish.

This is what happens when people get their news in meme's from inside their own echo chamber.

He is the best Speaker that Parliament has had that I can ever remember."

I agree in he has been a great speaker , however yesterday he broke all the rules of being speaker he even sought advice and was told in no uncertain terms he shouldnt allow it. You own a business if one of your workers asked you the rules on something and then blatantly broke them what would you do ?

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

He seemed to be in his element yesterday, helping parliamentary sovereignty to be fully exercised and to prevail over a government that has avoided fuller parliamentary involvement and scrutiny of measures that jeopardise its ability to vote and enable changes that undo decades of UK sovereignty in action whilst in the EU.

The public manipulation machinery that is much of the UK media, is livid as are many of the swivel eyed brigade who dislike not being permitted to throw whatever toys they have out of their prams.

May broke rules by postponing the vote for a month - also seriously affecting potential for a near immediate EU deal and departure. The government is seriously beyond parody and order.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Just another episode in the longest-running pantomime in British history.

Given all that's at stake, I'd have thought there were far more important things to worry about than some archaic set of rules.

But hey ho, such is the state of the UK in 2019.

In any event, the existing law requires Ministers to come to Parliament with Plan B within a few days of January 21 if there is no agreement with the EU.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"He's a hero to the Country and should be knighted

Actually in any other workplace he would be sacked for gross misconduct

Rubbish.

This is what happens when people get their news in meme's from inside their own echo chamber.

He is the best Speaker that Parliament has had that I can ever remember.

He denies this and actually asserts that there is a difference between a Motion and an Amendment and in any event if life was restricted solely by precedent how could we ever move forwards into new horizons?

His job is to support Parliament - not the Govt and that is what he did yesterday.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"Just another episode in the longest-running pantomime in British history.

Given all that's at stake, I'd have thought there were far more important things to worry about than some archaic set of rules.

But hey ho, such is the state of the UK in 2019.

In any event, the existing law requires Ministers to come to Parliament with Plan B within a few days of January 21 if there is no agreement with the EU.

"
Not exactly she could come back with the same deal again.

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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield /derby cinemas

Although it has been reported that Bercow did infact vote remain ( and his wife's car has a sticker in the window saying "bollocks to brexit") , he was probably attempting to show he was impartial , one of the main objectives for the leavers was for sovereignty to be handed back to parliament , so he obviously had listened to their wishes and thought ok then here it is ,,,,,,, hence the scenes of those who had said they wanted sovereignty to be given back to parliament shouting , screaming , crying " we don't want sovereignty to be given back to parliament " ,,,,,, I hope this clears it up for you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Although it has been reported that Bercow did infact vote remain ( and his wife's car has a sticker in the window saying "bollocks to brexit") , he was probably attempting to show he was impartial , one of the main objectives for the leavers was for sovereignty to be handed back to parliament , so he obviously had listened to their wishes and thought ok then here it is ,,,,,,, hence the scenes of those who had said they wanted sovereignty to be given back to parliament shouting , screaming , crying " we don't want sovereignty to be given back to parliament " ,,,,,, I hope this clears it up for you "

Yes they do! But only if it's in their favour?

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"Taking back control" appears to mean different things to different people.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes they do! But only if it's in their favour?"

Very true indeed, Brexit fanatics want sovereignty but only when it suits their agenda

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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield /derby cinemas

Bercow did brilliant today , but probably won't get much news coverage ,, an MP who is 9 months pregnant will not be allowed by proxy because the government has stalled on bringing forward plans to allow this following a debate some time ago , Andrea Leadsom , as Leader of the House , came in for particular criticism with her failure not to follow up on the debate as lamatable ,,,,, well done Bercow !!!!!

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Bercow did brilliant today , but probably won't get much news coverage ,, an MP who is 9 months pregnant will not be allowed by proxy because the government has stalled on bringing forward plans to allow this following a debate some time ago , Andrea Leadsom , as Leader of the House , came in for particular criticism with her failure not to follow up on the debate as lamatable ,,,,, well done Bercow !!!!!"

well they use to "pair" people who couldn't turn up for votes to cancel each other out, but after the torys broke that convention in of of the major brexit votes, when they whip a person to vote against a person who was on maternity leave and won the vote by 5!

somehow no one trusts the tories anymore so she is putting off her c-section to vote and hubby is going to wheel her around in a wheelchair so she can vote

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