FabSwingers.com forum: Just a thought on Brexit and the People’s Vote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

So say the remainers get their wish and we have a People’s Vote. And the result changes to remain with a narrow margin, do you honestly think that the people who voted Brexit twice will just say ‘Oh, okay. That’s fair, remain it is.’

As much as the remainers feel aggrieved at the current decision which was democratic, can you imagine how much more aggrieved you will feel if you’ve had an original decision changed to remain and you voted Brexit twice.

Do people honestly think that the People’s Vote will be the end of it, Brexiteers will compain till we get another vote.

Also, it was obvious that Brexit was going to be close, did no one think, this could devide the country right down the middle. Shall we just make an informed decision on their behalf, because we have access and the knowledge to make such a life changing decision.

What a shambles.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..... did no one think.... "

Sadly I think this has pretty much Ben the problem from the beginning. The original referendum was concocted to fix a problem with the Tory party and now is a problem for the entire country. Between them and with some able assistance from others Cameron and May have turned a stinking molehill into a shit mountain *sighs*

There is no good fix that I can see either way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you don't get the vote result you want change the people?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

People now have lots more info and have had time to see what potentially could happen.

People can now make a more informed vote.

One of the options should be another vote.

If a group of people vote to do something and just before they go they here it is shit. You don't carry on , you do something else

That's real democracy

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By *ardiffCoupleNJCouple
over a year ago

Pontypridd/Rhyfelin

"..... did no one think....

There is no good fix that I can see either way.

xx"

So true ….and yet they still won the last election & if figures are anything to go by, they'd win an election still. Go figure.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"People now have lots more info and have had time to see what potentially could happen.

People can now make a more informed vote.

One of the options should be another vote.

If a group of people vote to do something and just before they go they here it is shit. You don't carry on , you do something else

That's real democracy "

The information was there the first time around, there’s this wonderful called the internet were people can find things out at a touch of a button. Which most people didn’t do.

The point I’m making is that the millions of people who would vote Brexit again, will be slightly miffed to say the least. They’re not going to except a decision of remain after the original decision was changed. They will have every right to feel aggrieved, more so than the remainers who aren’t happy with the first vote that didn’t go their way.

Another vote I suggest would be equally close, maybe going in favour of Remain, thus dividing the country down the middle again.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..... did no one think....

There is no good fix that I can see either way.

xx"

Agreed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I say no deal call there bluff there as scared of us leaving as we are thats why the eu courts said forget brexut if u want there scared i say convince them were not afraid to no deal and better terms will be offered problem is may couldnt sell 2nd hand carpet nevermind sell a con to the eu

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By *athnBobCouple
over a year ago

sandwell

If there is a "peoples vote" there should be no option to vote for remain...we have had a vote on that and all the information was there for people to make their judgement just as it is with a general election. Remainers are screaming about lying/cheating politicians ....well duh.... they are politicians

The new vote should be accept the deal or hard brexit

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If there is a "peoples vote" there should be no option to vote for remain...we have had a vote on that and all the information was there for people to make their judgement just as it is with a general election. Remainers are screaming about lying/cheating politicians ....well duh.... they are politicians

The new vote should be accept the deal or hard brexit

I agree. I think having that option makes a mockery of the whole voting system. Why would anyone bother voting again if a decision can be overturned.

The whole situation is embarrassing.

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By *lue NarwhalMan
over a year ago

Iceland, but Aldi is closer..

One question that is really bugging me since the vote,

Where are all those hard line brexiteers that promised the impossible? As soon as the vote went their way, which seemed like an almost impossibility during the build up to the vote (laughable claims being made by the brexit campaign such as the sun will shine longer if we leave!), they had their few days of celebration and then suddenly disappeared..

Not one of the hard line brexit Tories went forward for the leadership when Cameron resigned.

They knew the shit storm was impending and that it was time to run for the hills..

The large majority of people that voted to leave was not based upon a political desire to exit the single market but was wholly on immigration..

In the unlikely event that there is another referendum, I think all voters should have to get the answer to the following question correct... "politically, What is Brussels famous for?"

1 - Jean-Claude Van Damme

2 - Head Quarters of the European Union

3 - Mussels, beer and chocolates

That should out those that have no idea what the actual vote was about.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The new vote should be accept the deal or hard brexit

I agree. I think having that option makes a mockery of the whole voting system. Why would anyone bother voting again if a decision can be overturned.

The whole situation is embarrassing. "

I think I alight more with this than any other option.

I do not like that we are leaving the EU - it's not perfect by any measure, but the illusion that it's only the EU which operates as a trade block of sovereign states, which subvert some decision making to a group consensus, in exchange for more influence and power, is incorrect.

It should be, morally, a choice between the deal the PM negotiates, or no deal.

But then an argument for Brexit was parliamentary sovereignty. People elect MP's no to do their bidding, but to make informed decision on their behalf. If the GE last year was a '2nd referendum' as many spin it, then we should look at what the elected members represent via their own parties manifesto, and whether they challenged that.

If an area wanted hard brexit, they would have elected that kind of representative, if they wanted a soft brexit they would have elected a representative for that. If they wanted to remain, they would have selected for that.

Unless of course, the GE could never be about the referendum, as GE's by their nature are more about domestic policy than anything.

So, how do you square it with the country.

You cannot say "Brexit was about parliamentary sovereignty!" Then subvert Parliament's power but over ridding it with popular mob rule.

In short. There isn't an outcome. All outcomes violate some form of contract between the people and those we elect to govern.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The way I see it, if there was to be another vote, and Remain was on the ballot and won (no matter by which margin), trust in Democracy and Politicians will be damaged for a generation.

And, to be fair, I really do get the sense that many of those MP's who are against a second vote can see this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"People now have lots more info and have had time to see what potentially could happen.

People can now make a more informed vote.

One of the options should be another vote.

If a group of people vote to do something and just before they go they here it is shit. You don't carry on , you do something else

That's real democracy

The information was there the first time around, there’s this wonderful called the internet were people can find things out at a touch of a button. Which most people didn’t do.

Another vote I suggest would be equally close, maybe going in favour of Remain, thus dividing the country down the middle again. "

If the leavers are so confident of leave is the right choice and people will still vote the same then why not let there be another vote

Or is it because they know the "will of the people" as they call it is actually to stay in the e.u

The leave won by lies and mis info.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The way I see it, if there was to be another vote, and Remain was on the ballot and won (no matter by which margin), trust in Democracy and Politicians will be damaged for a generation.

And, to be fair, I really do get the sense that many of those MP's who are against a second vote can see this"

If there was another vote and it was stay .Why is that against democracy ?

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

"So say the remainers get their wish and we have a People’s Vote. And the result changes to remain with a narrow margin, do you honestly think that the people who voted Brexit twice will just say ‘Oh, okay. That’s fair, remain it is.’

Do people honestly think that the People’s Vote will be the end of it, Brexiteers will compain till we get another vote.

What a shambles. "

I voted remain

The very last thing I want is another people's vote

I'd prefer the adults take control and stop the idiotic nonsense that is any form of brexit

As for did anyone think

Erm yes to my mind what has and is occurring was totally predictable

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The way I see it, if there was to be another vote, and Remain was on the ballot and won (no matter by which margin), trust in Democracy and Politicians will be damaged for a generation.

And, to be fair, I really do get the sense that many of those MP's who are against a second vote can see this

If there was another vote and it was stay .Why is that against democracy ? "

Read my comment again. I did not say that it was AGAINST democracy. I suggested that many would lose trust in it

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

There is no logical argument against a second referendum - none at all.

Brexit as sold, cannot be delivered and the consequence of trying to do so has paralysed Parliament. The concept of Brexit was open to personal interpretation and meant different things to different people. The proof of this is just how Theresa May’s interpretation is being accepted by some and rejected by others.

It is all very well to demand that the first referendum is honoured. For that to happen, everyone has to accept Theresa May’s deal - and of course very few people are prepared to do that. Parliament is at an impasse and the country is at an impasse quite simply because the first referendum and the promises related to it were flawed.

Remember by the way - that for those Brextremists who are dead against May’s deal. You can thank the likes of Gina Miller and other so called “enemies of the people” for making sure that Theresa May has not already ratified her Brexit deal because without her - and them. Her deal would have been a done deal.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"The way I see it, if there was to be another vote, and Remain was on the ballot and won (no matter by which margin), trust in Democracy and Politicians will be damaged for a generation.

And, to be fair, I really do get the sense that many of those MP's who are against a second vote can see this"

Perception is all important.

Trusting the people to correct a flawed first referendum that was badly prepared and woefully campaigned is an honourable thing. However, if it is presented as to be trying the same thing and hoping for a different result - then yes, faith will be damaged.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If we have a second reforendum and the vote changes, either people changed their mind. Or chose not to vote.

If they changed their mind, then surely its okay to find this out.

If they chose not to vote, then isn’t this a measure of how much will they really had.

My guess is people will put down any change of mind / apathy to “the way it’s been handled” and say May engineered this.

But Mays deal is delivering a form of brexit. Eg she is delivering in the first referendum.

So what people are really saying is the version of brexit they are getting is different to what they wanted.

But IMO that shows they took an unwise decision process as they were never voting for a specific flavour of brexit but for any brexit.

Fair play to centaur who is consistent in his belief that any brexit is better than being in the Eu.

If everyone thinks that the result won’t change.

But is suspect the fear of some arch leavers is there are enough people who voted off the back of one of the promises that, given they won’t be delivered, would choose remain versus hard brexit or Mays deal. But have used the will of the people in too many soundbites to risk seeing if everyone believes any deal is better than the EU....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The way I see it, if there was to be another vote, and Remain was on the ballot and won (no matter by which margin), trust in Democracy and Politicians will be damaged for a generation.

And, to be fair, I really do get the sense that many of those MP's who are against a second vote can see this

If there was another vote and it was stay .Why is that against democracy ?

Read my comment again. I did not say that it was AGAINST democracy. I suggested that many would lose trust in it"

Considering a lot of young people 30-40 and younger, are overall pro-EU, if we returned to theEU, one way or another, would the sense of betrayal/loss of faith be truly for a generation?

I'm not advocating for it,however, statistically it seems that it would be the waining generations who would be disenfranchised to vote.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

The UK, or what remains of it, won’t return to the EU until people cast off their self-pity and move on from the days of empire, world war two etc

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

I voted Remain.

I lost.

I think it would be wrong to ask that question.

The decision is made.

What may be valid is a referendum on what sort of exit - Mrs May’s plan or no plan.

That said, does anyone expect a 580 page legal treaty to be understood by the average voter?

And I’m sure the warnings of the consequences of exiting with no alternative arrangement will be dismissed as Project Fear 2.0

We shot ourselves in the foot with a pistol two years ago. I suspect we’d blow off our leg this time.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I tell you what how about we don’t have the chance to change governments anymore one vote and that’s it forever

Would everyone e happy with that ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

*be

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Voted remain and whilst I think another vote is totally democratic I don't want one..

Part of this whole process was stated by leavers that 'we took back control' in several areas and two of those were the Sovereign Parliament we elect to make decisions and our judiciary to independently set out the laws of this land as placed in statute in that Sovereign body in Westminster..

So Parliament is the body not the electorate to make the decision on the deal in question or when that likely fails to find a compromise which is in the National interest as that is the only way this whole shoddy and frankly embarrassing episode is put to bed..

As Too Hot said it took a common person to get it to the place it should be and she, her supporters and the judiciary who came to that conclusion deserve an apology from many and a thank you for doing that..

Without that the deal laid out by May would be what we are leaving on and it's clear to many on all sides its a poor one..

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

The new vote should be accept the deal or hard brexit

I agree. I think having that option makes a mockery of the whole voting system. Why would anyone bother voting again if a decision can be overturned.

The whole situation is embarrassing. "

Why should anyone bother voting again if a decision can't be overturned?

Overturning, and be able to overturn, previous decisions is surly what democracy is all about.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

lets keep it simple.

If i was told a car for sale was the dogs bollox and promised it would be everything I wanted but in the end was nothing like i thought i was getting would I change my mind .?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"lets keep it simple.

If i was told a car for sale was the dogs bollox and promised it would be everything I wanted but in the end was nothing like i thought i was getting would I change my mind .?"

But then another mechanic says the car will be fine, you just need to give it a good run around for a while and your wife really wants to keep the car, what then ?!

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By *tace 309TV/TS
over a year ago

durham

The new vote should be accept the deal or hard brexit

"
if there was a peoples vote of

1) accept mays deal

2) remain as,we are

As I voted leave neither of these are,acceptable to me .

We voted in or out

Yes it was that simple

Leave won .that's the end of that

Now we must get a grip to find something acceptable

Remain is not an option at all . you moaners need to get over that .once you do maybe the country can get moving again . its time these MPS did the same .you simply cannot keep on voting about anything that's displeases you .

If remain had won that 2016 referendum I would never had gone on the way they who think they know best have done .its time to grow up and learn to accept things .thats half the problem with this country its lost its identity and for that I blame the Eu and its puppet masters

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By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

The new vote should be accept the deal or hard brexit

I agree. I think having that option makes a mockery of the whole voting system. Why would anyone bother voting again if a decision can be overturned.

The whole situation is embarrassing.

Why should anyone bother voting again if a decision can't be overturned?

Overturning, and be able to overturn, previous decisions is surly what democracy is all about.

"
so which other votes have been over turned ?

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"The way I see it, if there was to be another vote, and Remain was on the ballot and won (no matter by which margin), trust in Democracy and Politicians will be damaged for a generation.

And, to be fair, I really do get the sense that many of those MP's who are against a second vote can see this"

I get this argument and it has some merit. However, let's postulate this scenario. May's deal, or anything like is, is never passed, no other deal or even a so called managed 'no deal' is agreed (because that also requires a NI backstop). At 23:00 on 29 March 19 we crash with nothing agreed. If, as a result of that, things are only half or a quarter as bad as most experts predict, millions of people will be worse of, millions could possibly lose their jobs, billions of £s could be lost and tax revenues reduced leaving less money for vital social services and health facilities.

If this happens, how much damage do you think that would do to people's trust in democracy and politicians, especially as all it would have taken to stop it was MPs simply voting against what they already believe is bad for the country and actually voting for what they already believe to be best for the country?

I'd rather risk a few hard line BREXITERS being angry because they couldn't all decide what they actually wanted and then, when offered what they actually voted for (Leaving the EU; no ifs, no buts), turned it down anyway, than a justifiably angry population because many have lost their jobs, their homes and their money.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So the crux of all of this is the belief that the people who were bothered enough to get off their arses and vote us out of the EU were patriots and that anyone who disagrees with them is a traitor. I dont like the idea of not honouring the peoples will but lets face the facts - successive tory leaders have played party politics with this particular grenade and have abdicated responsibility by having a referendum instead of a royal commission. The question should never have been so simplistic in the first place.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

The new vote should be accept the deal or hard brexit

I agree. I think having that option makes a mockery of the whole voting system. Why would anyone bother voting again if a decision can be overturned.

The whole situation is embarrassing.

Why should anyone bother voting again if a decision can't be overturned?

Overturning, and be able to overturn, previous decisions is surly what democracy is all about.

so which other votes have been over turned ?"

The one that springs to mind is the 1975 referendum on Leaving or Remaining in the EU.

The 1979 referendum on Scottish and Welsh devolution.

If BREXIT happens without a backstop, the Northern Ireland referendum on accepting the Good Friday Agreement.

Every time we have a general election and we end up with a different Govetment than we got at the previous one.

The very essence of democracy is about people changing their minds and that that change of mind is reflected correctly by holding national ballots.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"So the crux of all of this is the belief that the people who were bothered enough to get off their arses and vote us out of the EU were patriots and that anyone who disagrees with them is a traitor. I dont like the idea of not honouring the peoples will but lets face the facts - successive tory leaders have played party politics with this particular grenade and have abdicated responsibility by having a referendum instead of a royal commission. The question should never have been so simplistic in the first place."

Remoaners like you seemed very happy with a referendum and the question on the ballot paper, when all the polls pointed to a remain win in 2016, remainers we posting on here all smug and arrogant. Now you've lost you've suddenly developed gripes about having a referendum in the first place, and the question on the ballot paper, and the legitimacy of it because you don't like the result. Put your dummy back in, stop wearing nappies and grow up!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I voted remain.

I can understand the logic of having another people's vote but the options would have to be

The BREXIT deal

WTO no specific type deal

The Government has organised BREXIT.

Parliament should accept the referendum result and vote for the BREXIT deal.

If Parliament refuse to do their duty & vote this deal through then that's where a complicated matter goes 10 fold.

Then it's currently anyone's guess...

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

The new vote should be accept the deal or hard brexit

I agree. I think having that option makes a mockery of the whole voting system. Why would anyone bother voting again if a decision can be overturned.

The whole situation is embarrassing.

Why should anyone bother voting again if a decision can't be overturned?

Overturning, and be able to overturn, previous decisions is surly what democracy is all about.

so which other votes have been over turned ?

The one that springs to mind is the 1975 referendum on Leaving or Remaining in the EU.

The 1979 referendum on Scottish and Welsh devolution.

If BREXIT happens without a backstop, the Northern Ireland referendum on accepting the Good Friday Agreement.

Every time we have a general election and we end up with a different Govetment than we got at the previous one.

The very essence of democracy is about people changing their minds and that that change of mind is reflected correctly by holding national ballots.

The very essence of democracy is having and vote and then implementing the result of that vote. The result of the 2016 referendum has to be implemented before you can hold another one otherwise it is a betrayal of democracy, and trust in democracy is undermined and eroded. If there is another vote now without honoring the first vote in 2016, then it is the death of democracy in this country.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The trouble with you is your solution to anything you don’t understand is belligerence and just fyi I did want to remain and still do but i have respect for democracy unlike some

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

The new vote should be accept the deal or hard brexit

if there was a peoples vote of

1) accept mays deal

2) remain as,we are

As I voted leave neither of these are,acceptable to me .

We voted in or out

Yes it was that simple

Leave won .that's the end of that

Now we must get a grip to find something acceptable

I glad to hear that. It's just a pity that the rest of the BREXITERS have never actually done that but instead have 'gone on' and winged about the result of the first referendum in 1975 for over 42 years.

I'm also not sure you're actually being truthful with yourself. You say you wouldn't have 'gone on' complaining if you'd lost the referendum but you're still complaining and winging now, even though you won and you've been offered, by May's deal, exactly what you voted for, which was Leave the EU, not in or out of anything.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

For the record I was never in favour of a referendum on our EU membership and said many times. I don't believe referendum are a good way to make complex decisions. I believe our representatives in Parliament should decide and if the people on balance don't like those decisions then should vote them out at the next election. Unfortunately Parliament currently doesn't seem to have the balls required to make a decision and a third referendum looks like it might be the only way out of this mess, even if Leave won again. Personally I wish Parliament would have the balls to stop BREXIT, back May's deal or even agree that we'll leave with no deal but they're too scared to do any.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

The new vote should be accept the deal or hard brexit

I agree. I think having that option makes a mockery of the whole voting system. Why would anyone bother voting again if a decision can be overturned.

The whole situation is embarrassing.

Why should anyone bother voting again if a decision can't be overturned?

Overturning, and be able to overturn, previous decisions is surly what democracy is all about.

so which other votes have been over turned ?

The one that springs to mind is the 1975 referendum on Leaving or Remaining in the EU.

The 1979 referendum on Scottish and Welsh devolution.

If BREXIT happens without a backstop, the Northern Ireland referendum on accepting the Good Friday Agreement.

Every time we have a general election and we end up with a different Govetment than we got at the previous one.

The very essence of democracy is about people changing their minds and that that change of mind is reflected correctly by holding national ballots.

Forget this being about BREXIT for a moment. Are you really saying that, regardless of how good or bad implementing an idea looks like it's going to actually be, we should just do it any how because more people thought it was going to be a good idea?

On BREXIT itself, I think a disastrous BREXIT which causes people to lose their jobs, their homes and their money would do far more to undermine democracy than not delivering BREXIT; especially when MPs could have stopped it happening by simply voting against what most actually believe to bad for the country and actually voting for what most actually already believe is best for the country.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

I agree with you.

I don't want to re-open the 2016 question.

The only valid question I can see is whether to go with Mrs May's plan or exit with no plan.

That's why I think a referendum is your best bet for getting the sharp exit you advocate.

Parliament won't buy it - but the public probably will.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fuck it, I'll even vote leave if we get a binary Remain / Leave question again.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Don't worry, nothing surer than it will be blamed on the EU for wrecking Britain.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The reason we had a referendum in the first place was that David Cameron did not for a moment think the result would be leave and when it was remain it killed UKIP for a generation

Arghhhggh!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The OP has argued very eloquently for us to accept the shambles deal on offer. A new referendum will be as inconclusive as the first probably. It's a half in half out deal for a half in half out result.

Who the fuck wants to be 1000s and 1000s of pounds worse off. What a load of bloody nonsense and bull shit it's all been.

Why don't we all just go and have a nice cup of tea and forget about it. The EU will probably implode anyway so why should we be the ones to tip it over the edge. The Euro will probably end the dream without us. Let's just sit quietly on the sidelines and let them get on with it.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

i blame "cake-ism".... let me explain....

I blame all those people on the leave side that were selling the fallacy that we would really be able to "have our cake and eat it"......

snake oil salesmen!!!!

why would anyone ever believe we would get a better deal being outside of the club than be in the club itself! if that was the case why would people ever be in the club in the first place....

its just blatant economic self harm..... it now a case of seeing if we just lose a few fingers or blow of an entire leg!

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

"People now have lots more info and have had time to see what potentially could happen.

People can now make a more informed vote.

One of the options should be another vote.

If a group of people vote to do something and just before they go they here it is shit. You don't carry on , you do something else

That's real democracy "

So agree with you. Now that we can all see how damaging Brexit will be, it is right to have a vote.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"i blame "cake-ism".... let me explain....

I blame all those people on the leave side that were selling the fallacy that we would really be able to "have our cake and eat it"......

snake oil salesmen!!!!

why would anyone ever believe we would get a better deal being outside of the club than be in the club itself! if that was the case why would people ever be in the club in the first place....

its just blatant economic self harm..... it now a case of seeing if we just lose a few fingers or blow of an entire leg!"

Sadly so true

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By *oghunter33Woman
over a year ago

on the hill NordWest of

Fact is that a half cooked chicken was put in front of the people with the first referendum. Now the UK is badly suffering from food poisoning. It would have been wise to get the cooking instructions/recipe first before serving the dish, ie the referendum should have been about giving a mandate or not to the UK government to seek T&C of leaving the EU. Once a deal is established let then let the people decide if they want to go for it or not in a second referendum. As it went all arse ways, I suggest a second referendum with May's deal or remain. Because let's face it there won't be a better deal and hard Brexit is economical suicide.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I second that motion

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By *avidnsa69Man
over a year ago

Essex

The new vote should be accept the deal or hard brexit

if there was a peoples vote of

1) accept mays deal

2) remain as,we are

As I voted leave neither of these are,acceptable to me .

We voted in or out

Yes it was that simple

Leave won .that's the end of that

Now we must get a grip to find something acceptable

So the EU has stolen our identity?

I dont want a second referendum with the choice of May's deal or no deal because there are enough bloody minded people out there to vote through a no deal

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By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

"i blame "cake-ism".... let me explain....

I blame all those people on the leave side that were selling the fallacy that we would really be able to "have our cake and eat it"......

snake oil salesmen!!!!

why would anyone ever believe we would get a better deal being outside of the club than be in the club itself! if that was the case why would people ever be in the club in the first place....

its just blatant economic self harm..... it now a case of seeing if we just lose a few fingers or blow of an entire leg!"
thing is Fabio you don’t know what is going to happen IF we leave you can have an educated guess but that’s all it really is is a GUESS wasn’t long ago ppl were claiming mass unemployment drop in wages but that guess turned out to be wrong yourself was claiming no flights mass food shortages troops on the streets asnt happened yet so you REALLY don’t know my guess is the average joe in the street won’t notice much change if any we will still get our summer hols pretty much the same price still have food banks jobs be the same but most important is the ppl can all shut the fuck up about brexit and start to get along

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why don't we accept the deal on offer. It'll do for a couple of years or so. At the end of it and we find we don't like it tell them to stick their legal bit of paper up their arses or if they've seen a bit of sense and realize we were right after all and make the conditions tight for us to rejoin.

We British have muddled along without a written constitution for a 1000 years so it's not without precedent. What's the worst they can do to us ? Fine us a few Billion Euros ? go to war with us ?

It's all a load of nonsense and bollocks anyway.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"i blame "cake-ism".... let me explain....

I blame all those people on the leave side that were selling the fallacy that we would really be able to "have our cake and eat it"......

snake oil salesmen!!!!

why would anyone ever believe we would get a better deal being outside of the club than be in the club itself! if that was the case why would people ever be in the club in the first place....

its just blatant economic self harm..... it now a case of seeing if we just lose a few fingers or blow of an entire leg! thing is Fabio you don’t know what is going to happen IF we leave you can have an educated guess but that’s all it really is is a GUESS wasn’t long ago ppl were claiming mass unemployment drop in wages but that guess turned out to be wrong yourself was claiming no flights mass food shortages troops on the streets asnt happened yet so you REALLY don’t know my guess is the average joe in the street won’t notice much change if any we will still get our summer hols pretty much the same price still have food banks jobs be the same but most important is the ppl can all shut the fuck up about brexit and start to get along "

So you don’t think there is any point in undertaking risk assessments, planning - anything like that?

That really is the problem you know... Far too many people think it is just too hard to think about things and make contingencies. The answer is to just look for an easy answer and then blame someone else when it goes wrong.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hey and towards the end of the 2 year period and we know if we like it or not we could have another referendum to ask people if they like it or not.

There it's all sorted.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do people honestly think that the People’s Vote will be the end of it, Brexiteers will compain till we get another vote.

What a shambles. "

What’s more important, doing what’s right for the people of this country, or not having some people pissed off?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thinking on about breaking the deadlock and actually accepting the deal on offer. The half in half out Brexit offered.

If we do accept it and sign on the dotted line it gives us a couple of years to get used to a new looser arrangement with the EU. As we approach the end of the 2 year period we’ll know if it’s been good for us or not. If it’s not been great surely 2 things can happen, there will be a clamour to loosen ties further or rejoin fully. At that point it would be fine to have another vote. If it’s a vote to leave all we do is leave.

We tell them to stick their 560 page document up their proverbial. Whats the worst they can do, fine us a few billion Euros, go to war with us, Get France to turn it’s Nukes in our direction if we don’t pay LOL. Good job we’ve got ours eh ?. Surely we are no worse off than we are now doing a no deal Brexit now, just taken advantage of some time to get used to it.

Alternatively we toss them a few Billion and they shuffle off again with their begging bowl. Moaning and groaning a bit but reluctantly know us Brits have beaten them at their own game.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Do people honestly think that the People’s Vote will be the end of it, Brexiteers will compain till we get another vote.

What a shambles.

What’s more important, doing what’s right for the people of this country, or not having some people pissed off?"

Some ?! You mean half the voting population, that’s quite a fuck up.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do people honestly think that the People’s Vote will be the end of it, Brexiteers will compain till we get another vote.

What a shambles.

What’s more important, doing what’s right for the people of this country, or not having some people pissed off?

Some ?! You mean half the voting population, that’s quite a fuck up."

You have half the voting population pissed off either way. But one scenario leaves the country and the people in reasonably good shape with hope for the future. And the other scenario leaves is cut adrift and penniless.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Do people honestly think that the People’s Vote will be the end of it, Brexiteers will compain till we get another vote.

What a shambles.

What’s more important, doing what’s right for the people of this country, or not having some people pissed off?

Some ?! You mean half the voting population, that’s quite a fuck up.

Think that’s slight scaremongering to say the least.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do people honestly think that the People’s Vote will be the end of it, Brexiteers will compain till we get another vote.

What a shambles.

What’s more important, doing what’s right for the people of this country, or not having some people pissed off?

Some ?! You mean half the voting population, that’s quite a fuck up.

Think that’s slight scaremongering to say the least."

Just a more succinct way to explain what I’m trying to say. The down sides to being out of Europe are too vast to even summarise here and are extremely well documented. So I didn’t want to repeat them here.

Essentially people will be pissed off either way, so why not then ignore how pissed off they are and do the right thing?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do people honestly think that the People’s Vote will be the end of it, Brexiteers will compain till we get another vote.

What a shambles.

What’s more important, doing what’s right for the people of this country, or not having some people pissed off?

Some ?! You mean half the voting population, that’s quite a fuck up.

Think that’s slight scaremongering to say the least."

Which is why we need to leave to prove who was right and who was wrong!

If the UK booms then all is forgiven.

If the UK fails then rejoin but without the veto, rebate etc etc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do people honestly think that the People’s Vote will be the end of it, Brexiteers will compain till we get another vote.

What a shambles.

What’s more important, doing what’s right for the people of this country, or not having some people pissed off?

Some ?! You mean half the voting population, that’s quite a fuck up.

Think that’s slight scaremongering to say the least.

Which is why we need to leave to prove who was right and who was wrong!

If the UK booms then all is forgiven.

If the UK fails then rejoin but without the veto, rebate etc etc."

We don’t need to prove anything. It’s gone way past opinion. We know for a fact it will worsted every aspect of life for now and for the next generation at least.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

Do people honestly think that the People’s Vote will be the end of it, Brexiteers will compain till we get another vote.

What a shambles. "
Yes it is a complete mess but if say a new vote made the result change to remain the majority of brexiteers would exept it grudgingly because they are fed up with the whole damn thing.

I do think however there would be a small element of them who would turn very very violent and there may be riots.

As for remainers if they lost they would carry on moaning because they are a very selfish nasty lot of people who are not democratic.

Either way are democracy as now broken and flawed and things will change forever.

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By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

"i blame "cake-ism".... let me explain....

I blame all those people on the leave side that were selling the fallacy that we would really be able to "have our cake and eat it"......

snake oil salesmen!!!!

why would anyone ever believe we would get a better deal being outside of the club than be in the club itself! if that was the case why would people ever be in the club in the first place....

So you don’t think there is any point in undertaking risk assessments, planning - anything like that?

The very simple issues at the heart of this is that when you unilaterally decide to put up regulatory and physical barriers, don’t be surprised when there are consequences. To make matters worse, nobody in Govt has made any efforts to think and plan about how to mitigate those consequences, whilst others adopt your kind of attitude, which appears to be ... “Ah fuck it, this is too much like hard work - let’s just see what happens.”"
it’s not my job to do the hard work tho is it it’s the politians can I ask you too-hot have you done any hard work to make brexit work or do you just give your opinions on here like the rest of us oiks rifraf and Chavs lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’m hoping when you voted you thought about whether it would be hard work, and whether we would have the right calibre of MPs to do the hard work of coming up with solutions, convincing the EU they were good solutions, and implementing the solutions, as well as thinking about the fall out of this turned out not to be the case ?

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By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

When ppl voted it was Cameron in charge then I didn’t vote the tories in but respect the wish of the ppl who did like this vote that’s democracy and no we don’t have the right caliber of ppl in charge but when have we lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When ppl voted it was Cameron in charge then I didn’t vote the tories in but respect the wish of the ppl who did like this vote that’s democracy and no we don’t have the right caliber of ppl in charge but when have we lol"

Not quite what I was asking but nm.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

Do people honestly think that the People’s Vote will be the end of it, Brexiteers will compain till we get another vote.

What a shambles. Yes it is a complete mess but if say a new vote made the result change to remain the majority of brexiteers would exept it grudgingly because they are fed up with the whole damn thing.

I do think however there would be a small element of them who would turn very very violent and there may be riots.

As for remainers if they lost they would carry on moaning because they are a very selfish nasty lot of people who are not democratic.

Either way are democracy as now broken and flawed and things will change forever."

If we remain now, It'll be much worse than violence on the streets, even though the level of violence could be on a par with the protests against Macron we've seen in Paris over the last 4 weeks. I think the real consequences of not honouring the 2016 referendum result will be a further rise of the far right and Populism. If we remain now It would lead to 17.4 million Brits being disenfranchised and they would abandon the mainstream centre. We will see swings to the far right and the far left on an unprecedented scale in this country the like of which has never been seen before. We're already seeing it sweeping across mainland Europe as it is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 15/12/18 16:06:00]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do people honestly think that the People’s Vote will be the end of it, Brexiteers will compain till we get another vote.

I do think however there would be a small element of them who would turn very very violent and there may be riots.

As for remainers if they lost they would carry on moaning because they are a very selfish nasty lot of people who are not democratic.

Either way are democracy as now broken and flawed and things will change forever.

Wait a minute you’re usually the champion for popularism and consistently celebrate the rise of the far right. So, by what you’ve said, you should be excited at a reversal of the Brexit decision.

You make so little sense sometimes. No one contradicts themselves as much as you.

And aren’t you promoting fear and aren’t you accusing anyone who understands the difficulties that Brexit is causing of promoting “project fear”.

You’re making it too easy.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

Do people honestly think that the People’s Vote will be the end of it, Brexiteers will compain till we get another vote.

I do think however there would be a small element of them who would turn very very violent and there may be riots.

As for remainers if they lost they would carry on moaning because they are a very selfish nasty lot of people who are not democratic.

Either way are democracy as now broken and flawed and things will change forever.

Wait a minute you’re usually the champion for popularism and consistently celebrate the rise of the far right. So, by what you’ve said, you should be excited at a reversal of the Brexit decision.

You make so little sense sometimes. No one contradicts themselves as much as you.

And aren’t you promoting fear and aren’t you accusing anyone who understands the difficulties that Brexit is causing of promoting “project fear”.

You’re making it too easy.

The brand of Populism I supported was Farage's ukip, we're talking a whole new level now Farage has gone, with the party being run by Gerard Batten and Tommy Robinson.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do people honestly think that the People’s Vote will be the end of it, Brexiteers will compain till we get another vote.

I do think however there would be a small element of them who would turn very very violent and there may be riots.

As for remainers if they lost they would carry on moaning because they are a very selfish nasty lot of people who are not democratic.

Either way are democracy as now broken and flawed and things will change forever.

Wait a minute you’re usually the champion for popularism and consistently celebrate the rise of the far right. So, by what you’ve said, you should be excited at a reversal of the Brexit decision.

You make so little sense sometimes. No one contradicts themselves as much as you.

And aren’t you promoting fear and aren’t you accusing anyone who understands the difficulties that Brexit is causing of promoting “project fear”.

You’re making it too easy.

The brand of Populism I supported was Farage's ukip, we're talking a whole new level now Farage has gone, with the party being run by Gerard Batten and Tommy Robinson. "

Okay, super fine line there, but I see the distinction. Interesting.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do people honestly think that the People’s Vote will be the end of it, Brexiteers will compain till we get another vote.

I do think however there would be a small element of them who would turn very very violent and there may be riots.

As for remainers if they lost they would carry on moaning because they are a very selfish nasty lot of people who are not democratic.

Either way are democracy as now broken and flawed and things will change forever.

Wait a minute you’re usually the champion for popularism and consistently celebrate the rise of the far right. So, by what you’ve said, you should be excited at a reversal of the Brexit decision.

You make so little sense sometimes. No one contradicts themselves as much as you.

And aren’t you promoting fear and aren’t you accusing anyone who understands the difficulties that Brexit is causing of promoting “project fear”.

You’re making it too easy.

The brand of Populism I supported was Farage's ukip, we're talking a whole new level now Farage has gone, with the party being run by Gerard Batten and Tommy Robinson. "

Project fear

Seriously tho, do you see the howevermanymillions of labour leaders jumping to ukip ?

If this does create large numbers of “new” supporters, it would add to the argument brexit has a racist underbelly.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

The new vote should be accept the deal or hard brexit

I agree. I think having that option makes a mockery of the whole voting system. Why would anyone bother voting again if a decision can be overturned.

The whole situation is embarrassing.

Why should anyone bother voting again if a decision can't be overturned?

Overturning, and be able to overturn, previous decisions is surly what democracy is all about.

so which other votes have been over turned ?

The one that springs to mind is the 1975 referendum on Leaving or Remaining in the EU.

The 1979 referendum on Scottish and Welsh devolution.

If BREXIT happens without a backstop, the Northern Ireland referendum on accepting the Good Friday Agreement.

Every time we have a general election and we end up with a different Govetment than we got at the previous one.

The very essence of democracy is about people changing their minds and that that change of mind is reflected correctly by holding national ballots.

One vote good. Two votes bad.

Too much democracy kills democracy.

Silly, silly boy

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

Do people honestly think that the People’s Vote will be the end of it, Brexiteers will compain till we get another vote.

I do think however there would be a small element of them who would turn very very violent and there may be riots.

As for remainers if they lost they would carry on moaning because they are a very selfish nasty lot of people who are not democratic.

Either way are democracy as now broken and flawed and things will change forever.

Centaur project fear. Also a Sun headline.

Bless

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

Do people honestly think that the People’s Vote will be the end of it, Brexiteers will compain till we get another vote.

I do think however there would be a small element of them who would turn very very violent and there may be riots.

As for remainers if they lost they would carry on moaning because they are a very selfish nasty lot of people who are not democratic.

Either way are democracy as now broken and flawed and things will change forever."

How dare you call it moaning.

How dare you.

Then every opponent of any government or any government policy in history are moaners.

Everyone from suffragetes to abolitionists.

How dare you.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"i blame "cake-ism".... let me explain....

I blame all those people on the leave side that were selling the fallacy that we would really be able to "have our cake and eat it"......

snake oil salesmen!!!!

why would anyone ever believe we would get a better deal being outside of the club than be in the club itself! if that was the case why would people ever be in the club in the first place....

The average Joe on the street doesn't care if we are or are not in the EU if they're doing alright.

However, if times are hard and they are told it is the fault of the EU and foreigners then they care.

If that doesn't fix it then it's Muslims and Jews.

If that doesn't fix it it's communists and trade unionists.

The in group becomes smaller and smaller and more and more hostile to outsiders.

It's not a new story is it?

Please stop pretending Brexit is a logical argument. It is not. That's what remainers didn't get. Being pragmatic and accepting an imperfect situation doesn't actually get people agitated or angry or fearful. The Conservative project fear worked for the 2015 general election but not the EU referendum.

Leave project fear did win.

I'd have more respect for leavers if they acknowledged that the argument for Brexit is primarily emotional.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

Do people honestly think that the People’s Vote will be the end of it, Brexiteers will compain till we get another vote.

What a shambles. "

Are you aggrieved if your choice of government taxing the rich and increasing public spending is replaced by one doing the opposite?

I do not understand why the situation is different with a referendum?

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By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

"i blame "cake-ism".... let me explain....

I blame all those people on the leave side that were selling the fallacy that we would really be able to "have our cake and eat it"......

snake oil salesmen!!!!

why would anyone ever believe we would get a better deal being outside of the club than be in the club itself! if that was the case why would people ever be in the club in the first place....

The average Joe on the street doesn't care if we are or are not in the EU if they're doing alright.

However, if times are hard and they are told it is the fault of the EU and foreigners then they care.

If that doesn't fix it then it's Muslims and Jews.

If that doesn't fix it it's communists and trade unionists.

The in group becomes smaller and smaller and more and more hostile to outsiders.

It's not a new story is it?

Leave project fear did win.

I'd have more respect for leavers if they acknowledged that the argument for Brexit is primarily emotional."
and what do you know about the average joe on the street it says on your profile your well educated did u do a degree at uni on the average joe ? Judging by how thick you think the average joe on the street is I’d of thought you wouldn’t of come across that many mate lol

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"i blame "cake-ism".... let me explain....

I blame all those people on the leave side that were selling the fallacy that we would really be able to "have our cake and eat it"......

snake oil salesmen!!!!

why would anyone ever believe we would get a better deal being outside of the club than be in the club itself! if that was the case why would people ever be in the club in the first place....

The average Joe on the street doesn't care if we are or are not in the EU if they're doing alright.

However, if times are hard and they are told it is the fault of the EU and foreigners then they care.

If that doesn't fix it then it's Muslims and Jews.

If that doesn't fix it it's communists and trade unionists.

The in group becomes smaller and smaller and more and more hostile to outsiders.

It's not a new story is it?

Leave project fear did win.

I'd have more respect for leavers if they acknowledged that the argument for Brexit is primarily emotional. and what do you know about the average joe on the street it says on your profile your well educated did u do a degree at uni on the average joe ? Judging by how thick you think the average joe on the street is I’d of thought you wouldn’t of come across that many mate lol"

...and there it is. The sweeping statement.

I have never, ever generalised about any segment of society being "thick". It's not what I think nor have ever believed.

You have no idea what my background is, what I have done or who I know.

Are you saying that the EU was a major concern for anyone except the fringes of politics before 2008?

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By *ild_oatsMan
over a year ago

the land of saints & sinners

The brand of Populism I supported was Farage's ukip, we're talking a whole new level now Farage has gone, with the party being run by Gerard Batten and Tommy Robinson. "

So funny how you support a brand of popularism where no sooner Farage gets what he wants he resigns from the leadership and scuttles off to the German embassy to obtain German citizenship for his children. So they can enjoy the benefits of EU citizenship. Whilst being happy to deny it for the rest of us.

Maybe that was not the smartest move, admitting to support double standards.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

The brand of Populism I supported was Farage's ukip, we're talking a whole new level now Farage has gone, with the party being run by Gerard Batten and Tommy Robinson.

Maybe that was not the smartest move, admitting to support double standards."

Sorry, did you say that Farage stated before the referendum that a 48:52 result would be unfinished business?

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By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

"i blame "cake-ism".... let me explain....

I blame all those people on the leave side that were selling the fallacy that we would really be able to "have our cake and eat it"......

snake oil salesmen!!!!

why would anyone ever believe we would get a better deal being outside of the club than be in the club itself! if that was the case why would people ever be in the club in the first place....

The average Joe on the street doesn't care if we are or are not in the EU if they're doing alright.

However, if times are hard and they are told it is the fault of the EU and foreigners then they care.

If that doesn't fix it then it's Muslims and Jews.

If that doesn't fix it it's communists and trade unionists.

The in group becomes smaller and smaller and more and more hostile to outsiders.

It's not a new story is it?

Leave project fear did win.

...and there it is. The sweeping statement.

I have never, ever generalised about any segment of society being "thick". It's not what I think nor have ever believed.

You have no idea what my background is, what I have done or who I know.

Are you saying that the EU was a major concern for anyone except the fringes of politics before 2008?

The point still remains that the primary Brexit arguments are emotional with "logical" arguments impossible to justify. Evidenced in this forum by am inability by leavers to answer direct questions, question their own convictions or see any positives in the opposing view."
you said the average joe doesn’t care if we are in or out the eu if they are doing ok and your saying they believe what ever they are told as if they are can’t make there own minds up have to be told I’d say that was pretty thick wouldn’t you Or have I read your post wrong it’s easily done I’m your average joe after all lol and I wasn’t having a pop at your life it was tongue in cheek

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"i blame "cake-ism".... let me explain....

I blame all those people on the leave side that were selling the fallacy that we would really be able to "have our cake and eat it"......

snake oil salesmen!!!!

why would anyone ever believe we would get a better deal being outside of the club than be in the club itself! if that was the case why would people ever be in the club in the first place....

The average Joe on the street doesn't care if we are or are not in the EU if they're doing alright.

However, if times are hard and they are told it is the fault of the EU and foreigners then they care.

If that doesn't fix it then it's Muslims and Jews.

If that doesn't fix it it's communists and trade unionists.

The in group becomes smaller and smaller and more and more hostile to outsiders.

It's not a new story is it?

Leave project fear did win.

...and there it is. The sweeping statement.

I have never, ever generalised about any segment of society being "thick". It's not what I think nor have ever believed.

You have no idea what my background is, what I have done or who I know.

Are you saying that the EU was a major concern for anyone except the fringes of politics before 2008?

The point still remains that the primary Brexit arguments are emotional with "logical" arguments impossible to justify. Evidenced in this forum by am inability by leavers to answer direct questions, question their own convictions or see any positives in the opposing view. you said the average joe doesn’t care if we are in or out the eu if they are doing ok and your saying they believe what ever they are told as if they are can’t make there own minds up have to be told I’d say that was pretty thick wouldn’t you Or have I read your post wrong it’s easily done I’m your average joe after all lol and I wasn’t having a pop at your life it was tongue in cheek "

No. I did not say they believe whatever they are told. Not anymore than rich, educated old people who only read the Daily Mail.

Please don't hide behind the "it was a joke" line. It wasn't in any way written in a way that indicated that.

Did anyone care about the EU before 2008 except for when the press or the government put out some half-truth to generate some outrage and divert attention from something more important?

Pretty much everyone leads with their better natures when they feel prosperous. They are kind and generous even to strangers. Under stress the opposite is often the case even though the best solution is to continue to be kind and generous.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The new vote should be accept the deal or hard brexit

I agree. I think having that option makes a mockery of the whole voting system. Why would anyone bother voting again if a decision can be overturned.

The whole situation is embarrassing.

Why should anyone bother voting again if a decision can't be overturned?

Overturning, and be able to overturn, previous decisions is surly what democracy is all about.

so which other votes have been over turned ?

The one that springs to mind is the 1975 referendum on Leaving or Remaining in the EU.

The 1979 referendum on Scottish and Welsh devolution.

If BREXIT happens without a backstop, the Northern Ireland referendum on accepting the Good Friday Agreement.

Every time we have a general election and we end up with a different Govetment than we got at the previous one.

The very essence of democracy is about people changing their minds and that that change of mind is reflected correctly by holding national ballots.

Too true...

and I'm a non-dummy wearing remainer!

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

The new vote should be accept the deal or hard brexit

I agree. I think having that option makes a mockery of the whole voting system. Why would anyone bother voting again if a decision can be overturned.

The whole situation is embarrassing.

Why should anyone bother voting again if a decision can't be overturned?

Overturning, and be able to overturn, previous decisions is surly what democracy is all about.

so which other votes have been over turned ?

The one that springs to mind is the 1975 referendum on Leaving or Remaining in the EU.

The 1979 referendum on Scottish and Welsh devolution.

If BREXIT happens without a backstop, the Northern Ireland referendum on accepting the Good Friday Agreement.

Every time we have a general election and we end up with a different Govetment than we got at the previous one.

The very essence of democracy is about people changing their minds and that that change of mind is reflected correctly by holding national ballots.

Too true...

and I'm a non-dummy wearing remainer! "

Why is it the "death of democracy"? [Add dramatic music and a long shot of an approaching storm]

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

Because as the poster stated you have to implement the 1st vote before you have another vote otherwise it is the death of democracy not to hard to understand.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"Because as the poster stated you have to implement the 1st vote before you have another vote otherwise it is the death of democracy not to hard to understand. "

Why would you implement the first vote if even those who advocated for it do not like the result?

That is quite hard for me to understand.

I'm pleased that it makes sense to you though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do leave voters not realise if there was another vote then they can still vote leave?

What's their issue?

Wonder why they are are against it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Because as the poster stated you have to implement the 1st vote before you have another vote otherwise it is the death of democracy not to hard to understand. "

To be fair the Government is trying to implement the first vote but the people who "we're the first vote" will not accept their own vote result so where the fuck do we go from there.

We want this....

Ok, there you go, this is "this"

We don't want that this, we want another "this"...

No wonder we're the laughing stock of Europe.

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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"Because as the poster stated you have to implement the 1st vote before you have another vote otherwise it is the death of democracy not to hard to understand.

To be fair the Government is trying to implement the first vote but the people who "we're the first vote" will not accept their own vote result so where the fuck do we go from there.

We want this....

Ok, there you go, this is "this"

We don't want that this, we want another "this"...

No wonder we're the laughing stock of Europe."

Two great pet analogies I saw recently:

"Brexit is the human version of what would happen if a dog actually caught a car"

and

"Brexit is like a cat once you actually get up and open the door for them"

Both I thought quite apt.

-Matt

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"Do leave voters not realise if there was another vote then they can still vote leave?

What's their issue?

Wonder why they are are against it?"
Are you sure about that? I don't think the next vote Will be a simple in or out.So if leave win again what happens then we are in the same situation do we have another vote until remain win?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do leave voters not realise if there was another vote then they can still vote leave?

What's their issue?

Wonder why they are are against it?Are you sure about that? I don't think the next vote Will be a simple in or out.So if leave win again what happens then we are in the same situation do we have another vote until remain win?"

No of course not - people are now better informed than before! If leave win, and that it hasn't broken the rules like last time - then that's it finished and out the next day!

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

Do you really think we are better informed now?seems to me people are even more confused now with all the different

scenarios.In or out was the decision to take with both sides putting their case.My point is would it be the same question or would it be changed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think the nation is far more aware of the consequences of leaving and the processes involved and what exactly we are getting from this EU deal.

Before the referendum there was no deal on the table and just assumptions and rhetoric from politicians.We now know what's on offer.

Can we say everyone can now make an informed decision .?? Probably not.

Not everyone cares about information .The brexiters I know are more about emotions..

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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"I think the nation is far more aware of the consequences of leaving and the processes involved and what exactly we are getting from this EU deal.

Before the referendum there was no deal on the table and just assumptions and rhetoric from politicians.We now know what's on offer.

Can we say everyone can now make an informed decision .?? Probably not.

Not everyone cares about information .The brexiters I know are more about emotions.."

...and blue passports. Don’t forget them.

-Matt

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"I think the nation is far more aware of the consequences of leaving and the processes involved and what exactly we are getting from this EU deal.

Before the referendum there was no deal on the table and just assumptions and rhetoric from politicians.We now know what's on offer.

Can we say everyone can now make an informed decision .?? Probably not.

Not everyone cares about information .The brexiters I know are more about emotions.."

Having a heart vs head argument discussion is fine. They are both valid.

Making an emotional decision is not inherently a bad thing.

Pretending it's a logical one and denouncing any opposing view as treacherous or some other nonsense is a bad thing.

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By *efrenchguyMan
over a year ago

London

It should be May's Deal vs Remain.

May's deal, despite being severely criticised by both sides is Brexit. It ends reciprocal FoM and stops most contributions to the EU budget, without completely cutting off all bridges to the continent. Sure, it's a shit deal, but Brexit was built on soundbites and the belief by many Brits they are somehow superior beings.

Whatever wins, it will settle the question until a party that puts an EU membership referendum on its manifesto wins an election.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If remainers win a second referendum , will brexiters be able to call for a third?

A best of three wins?

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By *efrenchguyMan
over a year ago

London

"If remainers win a second referendum , will brexiters be able to call for a third?

A best of three wins? "

You'll just have to elect a party that puts another referendum on its manifesto. Easy.

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