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"You may joke mate but I think you will see civil unrest on a scale never seen before if the government go against the people's wishes." That'll some up the uk perfectly. Total indifference to the homeless and workers needing food banks, but if the government don't follow UKIP there'll be hell to pay. | |||
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"That's why the Army is on standby "what will the army do? start shooting there own people? | |||
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"That's why the Army is on standby
what will the army do? start shooting there own people? "Backfill the positions vacated by the police if they need to respond to any widespread disorder. | |||
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"to be honest with ya with they way police numbers are these days i dont know if there is enough of em to deal with wide spread disorder another thing that theresa may has caused lol" Have you done any military service? If you had you will know that those who disobey get all sorts of shit. If you are in any doubt look at NI troubles - rubber bullets were invented for a reason! | |||
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"It would be a variation of Operation Temperer. When there is a terrorist outrage, the national security status is raised. The UK simply does not have enough armed response units in the territorial police forces to meet the heightened security requirements. So what happens? The police forces that guard the military sites and the nuclear sites have several thousand armed officers. Those officers are released to join civilian/territorial police forces on patrol in the city centres, airports etc. Their posts at the military sites and nuclear sites are backfilled by soldiers. It would be the same here. If the disorder was such that police resources were stretched, they would call on these other forces to boost their numbers. Their normal posts would be backfilled by soldiers. Similarly, police officers would be pulled from other duties, e.g. diplomatic protection officers, embassies etc, and their roles would be backfilled by the Army. No, the Army would not be sent to confront demonstrators. But it would be used to allow every police resource to put down the disorder. " Sorry Sarah I often agree with you 100% of the time. IF and only IF it gets out of hand the army will be deployed. They are probably the best trained army in the world for public disorder - the Irish conflict being a good training ground! | |||
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"Oh no, the last thing any government wants to see is the Army on the streets of Britain. They are NOT trained for public disorder. The police are. That's why they would be used as back-fill, not as front-line. The other branch the Government would call upon is the security services. Not for dealing with your average demonstrator in Trafalgar Square. But for going after the extremists on the watch-lists and their mates. Also, for monitoring and interrupting the communications. " I wasn't referring to civil disobedience - I was referring to a much more serious situation. As you say "last resort"! | |||
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"From what I've read Antifa are going to turn up to take on the far right. It might get tasty.." ah the far left against the far right great lets hope the police dont intervene id love to see how it pans out if there left to get on with it | |||
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" I wasn't referring to civil disobedience - I was referring to a much more serious situation. As you say "last resort"!" You're into the realms of martial law. Sure, there will be some hotheads out there. Always are. Most folks will just want to be seen and heard. And most will want nothing to do with anything that turns ugly and destructive. | |||
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"From what I've read Antifa are going to turn up to take on the far right. It might get tasty.. ah the far left against the far right great lets hope the police dont intervene id love to see how it pans out if there left to get on with it" My money is on them targeting tommy.Hell need some protection... | |||
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" I wasn't referring to civil disobedience - I was referring to a much more serious situation. As you say "last resort"! You're into the realms of martial law. Sure, there will be some hotheads out there. Always are. Most folks will just want to be seen and heard. And most will want nothing to do with anything that turns ugly and destructive. " The French have shown what they can do with a bit of violence. I hope I am wrong, but given the press, social media anything can happen. I saw some pretty ugly stuff in NI (70's) - and we didn't have the "connectivity" we have today! | |||
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"From what I've read Antifa are going to turn up to take on the far right. It might get tasty.. ah the far left against the far right great lets hope the police dont intervene id love to see how it pans out if there left to get on with it My money is on them targeting itommy .Hell need some protection..." i lived in few sqauts in early 90s so was mixing with these people and dont get me wrong the ones who like a row are fearless but a lot in there ranks are middle class trusterferians who tend to hang back wen it starts getting tasty | |||
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"From what I've read Antifa are going to turn up to take on the far right. It might get tasty.. ah the far left against the far right great lets hope the police dont intervene id love to see how it pans out if there left to get on with it My money is on them targeting itommy .Hell need some protection... i lived in few sqauts in early 90s so was mixing with these people and dont get me wrong the ones who like a row are fearless but a lot in there ranks are middle class trusterferians who tend to hang back wen it starts getting tasty" Yeah I've met them .Public school boys and girls rebelling against mummy and daddy. | |||
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"From what I've read Antifa are going to turn up to take on the far right. It might get tasty.. ah the far left against the far right great lets hope the police dont intervene id love to see how it pans out if there left to get on with it My money is on them targeting itommy .Hell need some protection... i lived in few sqauts in early 90s so was mixing with these people and dont get me wrong the ones who like a row are fearless but a lot in there ranks are middle class trusterferians who tend to hang back wen it starts getting tasty Yeah I've met them .Public school boys and girls rebelling against mummy and daddy. " yep give proper anarchists a bad name | |||
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" I wasn't referring to civil disobedience - I was referring to a much more serious situation. As you say "last resort"! You're into the realms of martial law. Sure, there will be some hotheads out there. Always are. Most folks will just want to be seen and heard. And most will want nothing to do with anything that turns ugly and destructive. The French have shown what they can do with a bit of violence. I hope I am wrong, but given the press, social media anything can happen. I saw some pretty ugly stuff in NI (70's) - and we didn't have the "connectivity" we have today!" The French had water cannons against the protesters in Paris. Sadiq Khan has just sold 2 water cannons bought for riot control in London. | |||
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" I wasn't referring to civil disobedience - I was referring to a much more serious situation. As you say "last resort"! You're into the realms of martial law. Sure, there will be some hotheads out there. Always are. Most folks will just want to be seen and heard. And most will want nothing to do with anything that turns ugly and destructive. The French have shown what they can do with a bit of violence. I hope I am wrong, but given the press, social media anything can happen. I saw some pretty ugly stuff in NI (70's) - and we didn't have the "connectivity" we have today! The French had water cannons against the protesters in Paris. Sadiq Khan has just sold 2 water cannons bought for riot control in London. " They were not allowed to be used and were riddled with faults according to articles, Boris didn't check if he was allowed to use them and the home secretary banned him from doing so...you're mate TM. | |||
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" I wasn't referring to civil disobedience - I was referring to a much more serious situation. As you say "last resort"! You're into the realms of martial law. Sure, there will be some hotheads out there. Always are. Most folks will just want to be seen and heard. And most will want nothing to do with anything that turns ugly and destructive. The French have shown what they can do with a bit of violence. I hope I am wrong, but given the press, social media anything can happen. I saw some pretty ugly stuff in NI (70's) - and we didn't have the "connectivity" we have today! The French had water cannons against the protesters in Paris. Sadiq Khan has just sold 2 water cannons bought for riot control in London. They were not allowed to be used and were riddled with faults according to articles, Boris didn't check if he was allowed to use them and the home secretary banned him from doing so...you're mate TM." Your* sorry predictive! | |||
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"You may joke mate but I think you will see civil unrest on a scale never seen before if the government go against the people's wishes." I'm totally shitting myself at the thought of the massed ranks of BREXITERS manning their Zimmer frames in an angry mass shuffle down Whitehall. But let me tell you this. If the rabid right try to violence, vandalism and intimidation to overthrow our Government, what ever colour that may be at the time, they will be treated no less harshly than Arthur Scargill and the loony left were in the 80s. We're not so easily scared. | |||
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"You may joke mate but I think you will see civil unrest on a scale never seen before if the government go against the people's wishes. I'm totally shitting myself at the thought of the massed ranks of BREXITERS manning their Zimmer frames in an angry mass shuffle down Whitehall. But let me tell you this. If the rabid right try to violence, vandalism and intimidation to overthrow our Government, what ever colour that may be at the time, they will be treated no less harshly than Arthur Scargill and the loony left were in the 80s. We're not so easily scared. " The police could call on you to sort them out if they need help.I will keep an eye out for you on the news, you will be the one with the yellow streak on his back running as fast as possible from the trouble!Lol  | |||
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"if it does kick of where are all these police gona come from? i live in a town of 30 odd thousand people and we are lucky if there are 10 or 15 coppers on duty at any one time.may has cut and cut and cut the police.how funny wpuld it be if when she really needs them the numbers just aint there" What scale of public disorder do you think the police could not cope with? The police have a duty to facilitate lawful protest. | |||
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"You may joke mate but I think you will see civil unrest on a scale never seen before if the government go against the people's wishes. I'm totally shitting myself at the thought of the massed ranks of BREXITERS manning their Zimmer frames in an angry mass shuffle down Whitehall. But let me tell you this. If the rabid right try to violence, vandalism and intimidation to overthrow our Government, what ever colour that may be at the time, they will be treated no less harshly than Arthur Scargill and the loony left were in the 80s. We're not so easily scared. The police could call on you to sort them out if they need help.I will keep an eye out for you on the news, you will be the one with the yellow streak on his back running as fast as possible from the trouble!Lol "I steer clear of trouble generally. I don't see the need. But lawlessness from the right will not be tolerated any more now than it was from the left in the 80s. | |||
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"if it does kick of where are all these police gona come from? i live in a town of 30 odd thousand people and we are lucky if there are 10 or 15 coppers on duty at any one time.may has cut and cut and cut the police.how funny wpuld it be if when she really needs them the numbers just aint there" In my personal opinion any show of violence during this so called 'BREXIT betrayal rally' could be the final nail in the Leave coffin. If Remain can hold two mass rallies of 100,000 and 700,000 with no trouble or violence at all but Leave can't even get a few thousand together without, it won't look good for them. Are you going? | |||
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"i not been on a march since the criminal justice act march.and be honest if there is trouble on that march i suspect antifa will be in the thick of it.im thinking more if we dont leave i think u will see trouble just not in one place more likley all over the country like wen all the little thieving fuckers went on the rampage in 2011" We might but that's still a better option than throwing innocent workers on to the unemployment scrap heap of BREXIT. That might not cause civil unrest but it will cause massive civil, political and economic dislocation. I'll take the risk of the BREXIT Zimmer army taking to the streets to avoid far worse social upheaval thanks. | |||
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"You may joke mate but I think you will see civil unrest on a scale never seen before if the government go against the people's wishes." Just articulate in a condensed form What exactly are the People's wishes ? For example Today I have met 10 people who wish for no Muslims or homosexuals to be allowed to live in the UK I've also met 10 people who want anyone who wants brexit , is anti immigrant and homophobic people to be removed from the country Tell me what is the will of the people ? And if you suggest out of the Eu I think you demonstrate ignorance of the variety and contrary of variants The people Would want The only One thing any intelligent out voter could have expected and thus explicitly wanted was an unresolvable clusterfuck The only outcome of An out vote was always going to be argument and stalemate that outcome was always inevitable Thus all the wise out voters have achieved the highest level of exactly what they wanted x | |||
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"i not been on a march since the criminal justice act march.and be honest if there is trouble on that march i suspect antifa will be in the thick of it.im thinking more if we dont leave i think u will see trouble just not in one place more likley all over the country like wen all the little thieving fuckers went on the rampage in 2011" 
Thing is the rallies and marches remainers did the leavers just left them alone to get on with it. Now ukip want to do a march for Brexit and Antifa want to kick up a fuss about it and interfere.
Ukip have as much right as anyone else in this country to organise a peaceful rally and go on a peaceful march for Brexit. If there is any trouble it will be because Antifa, remoaners and the loony left in Antifa are there being deliberately antagonistic, confrontational and they will be looking to deliberately instigate and start trouble. | |||
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"i not been on a march since the criminal justice act march.and be honest if there is trouble on that march i suspect antifa will be in the thick of it.im thinking more if we dont leave i think u will see trouble just not in one place more likley all over the country like wen all the little thieving fuckers went on the rampage in 2011 We might but that's still a better option than throwing innocent workers on to the unemployment scrap heap of BREXIT. That might not cause civil unrest but it will cause massive civil, political and economic dislocation. I'll take the risk of the BREXIT Zimmer army taking to the streets to avoid far worse social upheaval thanks." All this talk of Zimmer frames, you're not exactly a spring chicken yourself are you.
Besides as the Chancellor Philip Hammond said yesterday (and he is a remainer) that, "remaining in the EU is not a political or societal option". Remaining in the EU now would damage our politics and society, and would see the death of democracy in this country. Hammond is a democrat and accepts we must leave the EU. | |||
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"You may joke mate but I think you will see civil unrest on a scale never seen before if the government go against the people's wishes. I'm totally shitting myself at the thought of the massed ranks of BREXITERS manning their Zimmer frames in an angry mass shuffle down Whitehall. But let me tell you this. If the rabid right try to violence, vandalism and intimidation to overthrow our Government, what ever colour that may be at the time, they will be treated no less harshly than Arthur Scargill and the loony left were in the 80s. We're not so easily scared. The police could call on you to sort them out if they need help.I will keep an eye out for you on the news, you will be the one with the yellow streak on his back running as fast as possible from the trouble!Lol
I steer clear of trouble generally. I don't see the need.
But lawlessness from the right will not be tolerated any more now than it was from the left in the 80s.
"You scared of a few pensioners on zimmer frames then! That yellow streak must be back and front! Best get your mobility scooter turbo charged! Lol I think you will find leaver voters come from both the left and the right otherwise why would so many labour areas have voted out! | |||
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"That's why the Army is on standby
what will the army do? start shooting there own people? "Nothing new there they did in Derry | |||
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" I wasn't referring to civil disobedience - I was referring to a much more serious situation. As you say "last resort"! You're into the realms of martial law. Sure, there will be some hotheads out there. Always are. Most folks will just want to be seen and heard. And most will want nothing to do with anything that turns ugly and destructive. The French have shown what they can do with a bit of violence. I hope I am wrong, but given the press, social media anything can happen. I saw some pretty ugly stuff in NI (70's) - and we didn't have the "connectivity" we have today! The French had water cannons against the protesters in Paris. Sadiq Khan has just sold 2 water cannons bought for riot control in London. " The use of water cannon is illegal in the UK...but you knew that | |||
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" I wasn't referring to civil disobedience - I was referring to a much more serious situation. As you say "last resort"! You're into the realms of martial law. Sure, there will be some hotheads out there. Always are. Most folks will just want to be seen and heard. And most will want nothing to do with anything that turns ugly and destructive. The French have shown what they can do with a bit of violence. I hope I am wrong, but given the press, social media anything can happen. I saw some pretty ugly stuff in NI (70's) - and we didn't have the "connectivity" we have today! The French had water cannons against the protesters in Paris. Sadiq Khan has just sold 2 water cannons bought for riot control in London. The use of water cannon is illegal in the UK...but you knew that" Another ground breaking idea of our esteemed Prime Minister  | |||
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"From what I've read Antifa are going to turn up to take on the far right. It might get tasty.." Antifahahahaha, going to turn up like they did in Dover are they? They have been getting their arses handed to them of late. So I hope you are right, it might well get tasty | |||
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"reason i aint going is protesting dont do fuck all over a million on the stop tje war march and a labour goverment really listend to them eh.marches are a waste of a day" Actually they can be real fun, I haven’t done it for a while either, but have some great memories. One time in Oxford when the police said it was like hearding cats. The reds were there for five minutes, tried to steal our flags then ran like fuck when they saw us waiting for them. Happy days!! | |||
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"reason i aint going is protesting dont do fuck all over a million on the stop tje war march and a labour goverment really listend to them eh.marches are a waste of a day Actually they can be real fun, I haven’t done it for a while either, but have some great memories. One time in Oxford when the police said it was like hearding cats. The reds were there for five minutes, tried to steal our flags then ran like fuck when they saw us waiting for them. Happy days!!" what was your March about? | |||
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"reason i aint going is protesting dont do fuck all over a million on the stop tje war march and a labour goverment really listend to them eh.marches are a waste of a day Actually they can be real fun, I haven’t done it for a while either, but have some great memories. One time in Oxford when the police said it was like hearding cats. The reds were there for five minutes, tried to steal our flags then ran like fuck when they saw us waiting for them. Happy days!!" What was the protest for? | |||
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"i not been on a march since the criminal justice act march.and be honest if there is trouble on that march i suspect antifa will be in the thick of it.im thinking more if we dont leave i think u will see trouble just not in one place more likley all over the country like wen all the little thieving fuckers went on the rampage in 2011
Thing is the rallies and marches remainers did the leavers just left them alone to get on with it. Now ukip want to do a march for Brexit and Antifa want to kick up a fuss about it and interfere.
Ukip have as much right as anyone else in this country to organise a peaceful rally and go on a peaceful march for Brexit. If there is any trouble it will be because Antifa, remoaners and the loony left in Antifa are there being deliberately antagonistic, confrontational and they will be looking to deliberately instigate and start trouble. "Leavers didn't leave them alone to get on with it. On all 3 People's Vote matches I was on there were BREXIT campaigners trying to agitate and cause trouble. I was actually attached by an angry BREXITER on the tube coming back from the October march. It was only the other passengers on the tube who all told him to stop being a pillock that avoided any serious trouble. So don't try telling me that Leavers just left us to get on with it. That being said I don't think antifar turning up will do Remain any favours and I wish they'd stay away. It would be far better to let the Leavers have their rally and judge the real support for their mad 'no deal' BREXIT by the numbers that turn to support it. I reckon it will be in the few thousands at the most but we'll know for sure tomorrow. | |||
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"You may joke mate but I think you will see civil unrest on a scale never seen before if the government go against the people's wishes. I'm totally shitting myself at the thought of the massed ranks of BREXITERS manning their Zimmer frames in an angry mass shuffle down Whitehall. But let me tell you this. If the rabid right try to violence, vandalism and intimidation to overthrow our Government, what ever colour that may be at the time, they will be treated no less harshly than Arthur Scargill and the loony left were in the 80s. We're not so easily scared. The police could call on you to sort them out if they need help.I will keep an eye out for you on the news, you will be the one with the yellow streak on his back running as fast as possible from the trouble!Lol
I steer clear of trouble generally. I don't see the need.
But lawlessness from the right will not be tolerated any more now than it was from the left in the 80s.
You scared of a few pensioners on zimmer frames then!
That yellow streak must be back and front! Best get your mobility scooter turbo charged! Lol
I think you will find leaver voters come from both the left and the right otherwise why would so many labour areas have voted out! "There's nothing new about people who have historically voted Labour switching all the way to BNP. This not meant as an attack on the Labour Party as such but, having been involved in politics most of my life and canvassed and talked to many voters, some of the people who have expressed to me some of the most right wing social views, when asked whether they were likely to vote Labour, LibDem or Conservative have more often than not said Labour. Go figure! | |||
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"i not been on a march since the criminal justice act march.and be honest if there is trouble on that march i suspect antifa will be in the thick of it.im thinking more if we dont leave i think u will see trouble just not in one place more likley all over the country like wen all the little thieving fuckers went on the rampage in 2011
Thing is the rallies and marches remainers did the leavers just left them alone to get on with it. Now ukip want to do a march for Brexit and Antifa want to kick up a fuss about it and interfere.
Ukip have as much right as anyone else in this country to organise a peaceful rally and go on a peaceful march for Brexit. If there is any trouble it will be because Antifa, remoaners and the loony left in Antifa are there being deliberately antagonistic, confrontational and they will be looking to deliberately instigate and start trouble.
Leavers didn't leave them alone to get on with it. On all 3 People's Vote matches I was on there were BREXIT campaigners trying to agitate and cause trouble. I was actually attached by an angry BREXITER on the tube coming back from the October march. It was only the other passengers on the tube who all told him to stop being a pillock that avoided any serious trouble. So don't try telling me that Leavers just left us to get on with it.
That being said I don't think antifar turning up will do Remain any favours and I wish they'd stay away. It would be far better to let the Leavers have their rally and judge the real support for their mad 'no deal' BREXIT by the numbers that turn to support it. I reckon it will be in the few thousands at the most but we'll know for sure tomorrow.
"I think it was Bobbangs who accused someone on another thread a few days ago of using anecdotal evidence. We've only got your word for this and there is no way of proving or verifying that your anecdotal account actually happened. You could of course just be making all of this up to suit your own agenda. | |||
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"i not been on a march since the criminal justice act march.and be honest if there is trouble on that march i suspect antifa will be in the thick of it.im thinking more if we dont leave i think u will see trouble just not in one place more likley all over the country like wen all the little thieving fuckers went on the rampage in 2011
Thing is the rallies and marches remainers did the leavers just left them alone to get on with it. Now ukip want to do a march for Brexit and Antifa want to kick up a fuss about it and interfere.
Ukip have as much right as anyone else in this country to organise a peaceful rally and go on a peaceful march for Brexit. If there is any trouble it will be because Antifa, remoaners and the loony left in Antifa are there being deliberately antagonistic, confrontational and they will be looking to deliberately instigate and start trouble.
Leavers didn't leave them alone to get on with it. On all 3 People's Vote matches I was on there were BREXIT campaigners trying to agitate and cause trouble. I was actually attached by an angry BREXITER on the tube coming back from the October march. It was only the other passengers on the tube who all told him to stop being a pillock that avoided any serious trouble. So don't try telling me that Leavers just left us to get on with it.
That being said I don't think antifar turning up will do Remain any favours and I wish they'd stay away. It would be far better to let the Leavers have their rally and judge the real support for their mad 'no deal' BREXIT by the numbers that turn to support it. I reckon it will be in the few thousands at the most but we'll know for sure tomorrow.
I think it was Bobbangs who accused someone on another thread a few days ago of using anecdotal evidence. We've only got your word for this and there is no way of proving or verifying that your anecdotal account actually happened. You could of course just be making all of this up to suit your own agenda. "One thing's for sure, there will be arseholes on both sides trying to stir shit up. | |||
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"You may joke mate but I think you will see civil unrest on a scale never seen before if the government go against the people's wishes." "Brexit is about the sovereignty of parliament, British laws and identity before anything else." Okay; obey the laws mapped by parliament. Protest loudly by peacefully. You have every right to voice your mind, but when words cease and expression becomes physical, then the government can bring down the law. Don't get aggressive if you believe you've been betrayed, you only fuel publt opinion against your ideals. | |||
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"i not been on a march since the criminal justice act march.and be honest if there is trouble on that march i suspect antifa will be in the thick of it.im thinking more if we dont leave i think u will see trouble just not in one place more likley all over the country like wen all the little thieving fuckers went on the rampage in 2011
Thing is the rallies and marches remainers did the leavers just left them alone to get on with it. Now ukip want to do a march for Brexit and Antifa want to kick up a fuss about it and interfere.
Ukip have as much right as anyone else in this country to organise a peaceful rally and go on a peaceful march for Brexit. If there is any trouble it will be because Antifa, remoaners and the loony left in Antifa are there being deliberately antagonistic, confrontational and they will be looking to deliberately instigate and start trouble.
Leavers didn't leave them alone to get on with it. On all 3 People's Vote matches I was on there were BREXIT campaigners trying to agitate and cause trouble. I was actually attached by an angry BREXITER on the tube coming back from the October march. It was only the other passengers on the tube who all told him to stop being a pillock that avoided any serious trouble. So don't try telling me that Leavers just left us to get on with it.
That being said I don't think antifar turning up will do Remain any favours and I wish they'd stay away. It would be far better to let the Leavers have their rally and judge the real support for their mad 'no deal' BREXIT by the numbers that turn to support it. I reckon it will be in the few thousands at the most but we'll know for sure tomorrow.
I think it was Bobbangs who accused someone on another thread a few days ago of using anecdotal evidence. We've only got your word for this and there is no way of proving or verifying that your anecdotal account actually happened. You could of course just be making all of this up to suit your own agenda.
One thing's for sure, there will be arseholes on both sides trying to stir shit up."That's true but, unlike in the Remain marches where the BREXITERS were mostly either ignored or even offered drinks and sandwiches by the Remainers, I think some of the BREXITERS on the BNP/EDL fringe of the movement will respond with aggression. You only have to look at some of the aggressive comments on here threatening violence if they don't get exactly what they want. I don't think this rally is going to do BREXITERS and Leave any favours, but let's wait and see. It could go down without incident and it could have numbers into the tens of thousands but I doubt it will have both. | |||
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"You may joke mate but I think you will see civil unrest on a scale never seen before if the government go against the people's wishes." The people asked for BREXIT, the Government is giving them BREXIT, it's individual MP's across all parties that may stop their BREXIT. | |||
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"You may joke mate but I think you will see civil unrest on a scale never seen before if the government go against the people's wishes. I'm totally shitting myself at the thought of the massed ranks of BREXITERS manning their Zimmer frames in an angry mass shuffle down Whitehall. But let me tell you this. If the rabid right try to violence, vandalism and intimidation to overthrow our Government, what ever colour that may be at the time, they will be treated no less harshly than Arthur Scargill and the loony left were in the 80s. We're not so easily scared. The police could call on you to sort them out if they need help.I will keep an eye out for you on the news, you will be the one with the yellow streak on his back running as fast as possible from the trouble!Lol
I steer clear of trouble generally. I don't see the need.
But lawlessness from the right will not be tolerated any more now than it was from the left in the 80s.
You scared of a few pensioners on zimmer frames then!
That yellow streak must be back and front! Best get your mobility scooter turbo charged! Lol
I think you will find leaver voters come from both the left and the right otherwise why would so many labour areas have voted out!
There's nothing new about people who have historically voted Labour switching all the way to BNP. This not meant as an attack on the Labour Party as such but, having been involved in politics most of my life and canvassed and talked to many voters, some of the people who have expressed to me some of the most right wing social views, when asked whether they were likely to vote Labour, LibDem or Conservative have more often than not said Labour. Go figure!
"So we are back to everyone who voted leave is a racist again! "Some" isn't all is it so therefore left wing voters did vote for leave so go figure yourself! | |||
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"i not been on a march since the criminal justice act march.and be honest if there is trouble on that march i suspect antifa will be in the thick of it.im thinking more if we dont leave i think u will see trouble just not in one place more likley all over the country like wen all the little thieving fuckers went on the rampage in 2011
Thing is the rallies and marches remainers did the leavers just left them alone to get on with it. Now ukip want to do a march for Brexit and Antifa want to kick up a fuss about it and interfere.
Ukip have as much right as anyone else in this country to organise a peaceful rally and go on a peaceful march for Brexit. If there is any trouble it will be because Antifa, remoaners and the loony left in Antifa are there being deliberately antagonistic, confrontational and they will be looking to deliberately instigate and start trouble.
Leavers didn't leave them alone to get on with it. On all 3 People's Vote matches I was on there were BREXIT campaigners trying to agitate and cause trouble. I was actually attached by an angry BREXITER on the tube coming back from the October march. It was only the other passengers on the tube who all told him to stop being a pillock that avoided any serious trouble. So don't try telling me that Leavers just left us to get on with it.
That being said I don't think antifar turning up will do Remain any favours and I wish they'd stay away. It would be far better to let the Leavers have their rally and judge the real support for their mad 'no deal' BREXIT by the numbers that turn to support it. I reckon it will be in the few thousands at the most but we'll know for sure tomorrow.
I think it was Bobbangs who accused someone on another thread a few days ago of using anecdotal evidence. We've only got your word for this and there is no way of proving or verifying that your anecdotal account actually happened. You could of course just be making all of this up to suit your own agenda. "It's strange that the Kraken was quick to say that he thought there were 800000 (gross exageration) people on the most recent march but he failed to mention nearly getting beaten up!I doubt he would have missed the chance to make leavers look bad! He definitely comes across as someone involved in politics, you can't believe a word he says! Lol  | |||
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"i not been on a march since the criminal justice act march.and be honest if there is trouble on that march i suspect antifa will be in the thick of it.im thinking more if we dont leave i think u will see trouble just not in one place more likley all over the country like wen all the little thieving fuckers went on the rampage in 2011
Thing is the rallies and marches remainers did the leavers just left them alone to get on with it. Now ukip want to do a march for Brexit and Antifa want to kick up a fuss about it and interfere.
Ukip have as much right as anyone else in this country to organise a peaceful rally and go on a peaceful march for Brexit. If there is any trouble it will be because Antifa, remoaners and the loony left in Antifa are there being deliberately antagonistic, confrontational and they will be looking to deliberately instigate and start trouble.
Leavers didn't leave them alone to get on with it. On all 3 People's Vote matches I was on there were BREXIT campaigners trying to agitate and cause trouble. I was actually attached by an angry BREXITER on the tube coming back from the October march. It was only the other passengers on the tube who all told him to stop being a pillock that avoided any serious trouble. So don't try telling me that Leavers just left us to get on with it.
That being said I don't think antifar turning up will do Remain any favours and I wish they'd stay away. It would be far better to let the Leavers have their rally and judge the real support for their mad 'no deal' BREXIT by the numbers that turn to support it. I reckon it will be in the few thousands at the most but we'll know for sure tomorrow.
I think it was Bobbangs who accused someone on another thread a few days ago of using anecdotal evidence. We've only got your word for this and there is no way of proving or verifying that your anecdotal account actually happened. You could of course just be making all of this up to suit your own agenda.
One thing's for sure, there will be arseholes on both sides trying to stir shit up.
That's true but, unlike in the Remain marches where the BREXITERS were mostly either ignored or even offered drinks and sandwiches by the Remainers, I think some of the BREXITERS on the BNP/EDL fringe of the movement will respond with aggression. You only have to look at some of the aggressive comments on here threatening violence if they don't get exactly what they want.
I don't think this rally is going to do BREXITERS and Leave any favours, but let's wait and see. It could go down without incident and it could have numbers into the tens of thousands but I doubt it will have both.
"It will be interesting to compare a remainers march and leavers march .I sort of feel sorry that some nice brexiters will have to march with neo nazis with swastika tats and extreme ideology.Its really sad the 17.4 million have tommy representing them.Im sure many brexiters are disgusted that the far have organised this...Sad times | |||
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"i not been on a march since the criminal justice act march.and be honest if there is trouble on that march i suspect antifa will be in the thick of it.im thinking more if we dont leave i think u will see trouble just not in one place more likley all over the country like wen all the little thieving fuckers went on the rampage in 2011
Thing is the rallies and marches remainers did the leavers just left them alone to get on with it. Now ukip want to do a march for Brexit and Antifa want to kick up a fuss about it and interfere.
Ukip have as much right as anyone else in this country to organise a peaceful rally and go on a peaceful march for Brexit. If there is any trouble it will be because Antifa, remoaners and the loony left in Antifa are there being deliberately antagonistic, confrontational and they will be looking to deliberately instigate and start trouble.
Leavers didn't leave them alone to get on with it. On all 3 People's Vote matches I was on there were BREXIT campaigners trying to agitate and cause trouble. I was actually attached by an angry BREXITER on the tube coming back from the October march. It was only the other passengers on the tube who all told him to stop being a pillock that avoided any serious trouble. So don't try telling me that Leavers just left us to get on with it.
That being said I don't think antifar turning up will do Remain any favours and I wish they'd stay away. It would be far better to let the Leavers have their rally and judge the real support for their mad 'no deal' BREXIT by the numbers that turn to support it. I reckon it will be in the few thousands at the most but we'll know for sure tomorrow.
I think it was Bobbangs who accused someone on another thread a few days ago of using anecdotal evidence. We've only got your word for this and there is no way of proving or verifying that your anecdotal account actually happened. You could of course just be making all of this up to suit your own agenda.
One thing's for sure, there will be arseholes on both sides trying to stir shit up.
That's true but, unlike in the Remain marches where the BREXITERS were mostly either ignored or even offered drinks and sandwiches by the Remainers, I think some of the BREXITERS on the BNP/EDL fringe of the movement will respond with aggression. You only have to look at some of the aggressive comments on here threatening violence if they don't get exactly what they want.
I don't think this rally is going to do BREXITERS and Leave any favours, but let's wait and see. It could go down without incident and it could have numbers into the tens of thousands but I doubt it will have both.
It will be interesting to compare a remainers march and leavers march .I sort of feel sorry that some nice brexiters will have to march with neo nazis with swastika tats and extreme ideology.Its really sad the 17.4 million have tommy representing them.Im sure many brexiters are disgusted that the far have organised this...Sad times "It's quite pathetic & sad that their marching against something they fucking asked for and are being given. | |||
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" I wasn't referring to civil disobedience - I was referring to a much more serious situation. As you say "last resort"! You're into the realms of martial law. Sure, there will be some hotheads out there. Always are. Most folks will just want to be seen and heard. And most will want nothing to do with anything that turns ugly and destructive. The French have shown what they can do with a bit of violence. I hope I am wrong, but given the press, social media anything can happen. I saw some pretty ugly stuff in NI (70's) - and we didn't have the "connectivity" we have today! The French had water cannons against the protesters in Paris. Sadiq Khan has just sold 2 water cannons bought for riot control in London. " So what? Even if they could have been used they'll be no need in London. The capital is firmly remain. | |||
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"reason i aint going is protesting dont do fuck all over a million on the stop tje war march and a labour goverment really listend to them eh.marches are a waste of a day Actually they can be real fun, I haven’t done it for a while either, but have some great memories. One time in Oxford when the police said it was like hearding cats. The reds were there for five minutes, tried to steal our flags then ran like fuck when they saw us waiting for them. Happy days!! what was your March about? " Muslim grooming gangs... | |||
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"i not been on a march since the criminal justice act march.and be honest if there is trouble on that march i suspect antifa will be in the thick of it.im thinking more if we dont leave i think u will see trouble just not in one place more likley all over the country like wen all the little thieving fuckers went on the rampage in 2011 We might but that's still a better option than throwing innocent workers on to the unemployment scrap heap of BREXIT. That might not cause civil unrest but it will cause massive civil, political and economic dislocation. I'll take the risk of the BREXIT Zimmer army taking to the streets to avoid far worse social upheaval thanks. All this talk of Zimmer frames, you're not exactly a spring chicken yourself are you.
Besides as the Chancellor Philip Hammond said yesterday (and he is a remainer) that, "remaining in the EU is not a political or societal option". Remaining in the EU now would damage our politics and society, and would see the death of democracy in this country. Hammond is a democrat and accepts we must leave the EU. "Bullsh*t. As I've repeatedly pointed out to you democracy can't be undermined by more democracy. If you haven't changed your mind then get behind the current deal because it's the only Brexit you're getting. | |||
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"fighting has broken out between rival football gangs involved in the rightys for racism rally in london today .... fucking clown shoes "Ah no suprise then - Millwall and Chelsea by any chance? | |||
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"fighting has broken out between rival football gangs involved in the rightys for racism rally in london today .... fucking clown shoes "Leavers fighting among themselves . . . Scene 10, Act 1 of the Brexit pantomime | |||
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"reason i aint going is protesting dont do fuck all over a million on the stop tje war march and a labour goverment really listend to them eh.marches are a waste of a day Actually they can be real fun, I haven’t done it for a while either, but have some great memories. One time in Oxford when the police said it was like hearding cats. The reds were there for five minutes, tried to steal our flags then ran like fuck when they saw us waiting for them. Happy days!! what was your March about? Muslim grooming gangs..." When was this ? Oxford feels an odd choice of location. Unless the OU has someone controversial in ... | |||
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"reason i aint going is protesting dont do fuck all over a million on the stop tje war march and a labour goverment really listend to them eh.marches are a waste of a day Actually they can be real fun, I haven’t done it for a while either, but have some great memories. One time in Oxford when the police said it was like hearding cats. The reds were there for five minutes, tried to steal our flags then ran like fuck when they saw us waiting for them. Happy days!! what was your March about? Muslim grooming gangs... When was this ? Oxford feels an odd choice of location. Unless the OU has someone controversial in ..." It was back in 2013, and very serious. I best not leave a link but if you google “Oxford grooming gang” you can read about it and see pictures of the men found guilty. | |||
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"You may joke mate but I think you will see civil unrest on a scale never seen before if the government go against the people's wishes." Most people now want to stay in the e.u | |||
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"You may joke mate but I think you will see civil unrest on a scale never seen before if the government go against the people's wishes." Project fear | |||
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"You may joke mate but I think you will see civil unrest on a scale never seen before if the government go against the people's wishes. Most people now want to stay in the e.u " That is what it looks like because the remoaners are making such a noise, helped along by libtards in the press and other media outlets. The majority voted leave and would do so again. We will soon make ourselves heard if we are betrayed on our BREXIT. Nothing more dangerous than ordinary people with the right hump! | |||
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"You may joke mate but I think you will see civil unrest on a scale never seen before if the government go against the people's wishes. Most people now want to stay in the e.u That is what it looks like because the remoaners are making such a noise, helped along by libtards in the press and other media outlets. The majority voted leave and would do so again. We will soon make ourselves heard if we are betrayed on our BREXIT. Nothing more dangerous than ordinary people with the right hump! " Project fear | |||
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"You may joke mate but I think you will see civil unrest on a scale never seen before if the government go against the people's wishes. Most people now want to stay in the e.u That is what it looks like because the remoaners are making such a noise, helped along by libtards in the press and other media outlets. The majority voted leave and would do so again. We will soon make ourselves heard if we are betrayed on our BREXIT. Nothing more dangerous than ordinary people with the right hump! " Numerous polls have shown that people have changed. It shows a sign of intelligence if you are willing to change opinion when you are shown facts. Guess you missed that bit. People will not go on the streets rioting etc. If that's what you think then that shows the type who want out. | |||
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"the folks who had planned the 'Rightys for Racism Rally' in liverpool have apparently shat their pants and been too scared to turn up because of a counter demonstration of mainly OAP's lead by the mayor.... comedy gold ".... this is the second time in a couple of months that the righty racists from the lunatic fringe have shat their pants and scarpered from liverpool ... fucking clowns | |||
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"the folks who had planned the 'Rightys for Racism Rally' in liverpool have apparently shat their pants and been too scared to turn up because of a counter demonstration of mainly OAP's lead by the mayor.... comedy gold
.... this is the second time in a couple of months that the righty racists from the lunatic fringe have shat their pants and scarpered from liverpool ... fucking clowns "The right see brexit as some kind of personal victory. The middle people have now realised they were conned The racists still think we should be out and close the borders.even at the cost of totally fucking the country. The borders will never be closed. The right are very weak and are so against a new ref' . Nothing to do with democracy as they cry.iys because they know that brexit will be stopped. Democracy would allow a new ref with all the new info people have to make a new decision | |||
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"The media,rich and the system have always brain washed the people to get their own way and keep control. So sadly remain will win out you can't beat the system, heaven forbid the lower classes have a say and upset their cosy life style. EU is good for you rich and powerful so end of story " a) the mass media is pro-brexit b) the solution to inequality is not to make everyone poor | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 09/12/18 17:41:12]" what news are you watching? ??? And has for being poorer the brain washing working then lol | |||
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"The media,rich and the system have always brain washed the people to get their own way and keep control. So sadly remain will win out you can't beat the system, heaven forbid the lower classes have a say and upset their cosy life style. EU is good for you rich and powerful so end of story " How do I get a ticket to opposite land? | |||
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"Oh dear, you sound like Alex Salmond raging at the British Biased Corporation in 2014, or Donald Trump demanding his own Trump TV station dedicated to good news about Trump." I don't want all good news about Brexit but even handed would be nice. Question time 4 remains 1 leave I rest my case | |||
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"Oh dear, you sound like Alex Salmond raging at the British Biased Corporation in 2014, or Donald Trump demanding his own Trump TV station dedicated to good news about Trump.I don't want all good news about Brexit but even handed would be nice. Question time 4 remains 1 leave I rest my case " In fairness, there is very little to no good news about Brexit. They can’t fabricate pro Brexit news like The Express or Daily Mail. The BBC traditionally bias in favour of whichever party is in power. But with the Tories so split on Brexit, they don’t know what to do. | |||
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"Just been on the BBC website: A UKIP spokesman said "quite a few thousand" supporters turned up to their "Brexit Betrayal" march alongside controversial activist Tommy Robinson. Looking forward to the estimated head count." 3,000 according to the Evening Standard. Neo-Nazi flags in among UKIP flags. And one geezer carrying gallows and a noose told their reporter it was to hang Mrs May for treason. I imagine MI5 has been busy today collecting data. | |||
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"Just been on the BBC website: A UKIP spokesman said "quite a few thousand" supporters turned up to their "Brexit Betrayal" march alongside controversial activist Tommy Robinson. Looking forward to the estimated head count. 3,000 according to the Evening Standard. Neo-Nazi flags in among UKIP flags. And one geezer carrying gallows and a noose told their reporter it was to hang Mrs May for treason. I imagine MI5 has been busy today collecting data." What a sad excuse of a country we are now being portrayed as across the world. What is happening ? Racists being given a platform to shout their hatred | |||
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"reason i aint going is protesting dont do fuck all over a million on the stop tje war march and a labour goverment really listend to them eh.marches are a waste of a day Actually they can be real fun, I haven’t done it for a while either, but have some great memories. One time in Oxford when the police said it was like hearding cats. The reds were there for five minutes, tried to steal our flags then ran like fuck when they saw us waiting for them. Happy days!! what was your March about? Muslim grooming gangs... When was this ? Oxford feels an odd choice of location. Unless the OU has someone controversial in ... It was back in 2013, and very serious. I best not leave a link but if you google “Oxford grooming gang” you can read about it and see pictures of the men found guilty." EDL? | |||
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"2 party system must go we need a real 3rd party who is thinking of the country they would walk the next election forget Ukip they are dead needs someone who knows what the people want " Are you referring to England or the UK? Three of the four nations have greater diversity of choice. Some of that is because their sense of national identity has evolved into poltiical movements. No-one in England seems willing to embrace English identity. | |||
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"2 party system must go we need a real 3rd party who is thinking of the country they would walk the next election forget Ukip they are dead needs someone who knows what the people want " off you go then | |||
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"I've seen the following posted around facebook and not sure if any of it is true esp the bits about EU grants however if a lot of these jobs did leave the UK before brexit was a thing, does that mean the argument that brexit will lead to job losses is a mute point as job losses to Europe were already happening? I'm sure somebody with the time on their hands could investigate further Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant. Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant. Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds. Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant. British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales. Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan. Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200. M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan. Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants. Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant. Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant. Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant. Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding. Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing. ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase. JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry. UK airports are owned by a Spanish company. Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company. Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies. The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online. Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada. 39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently. Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations. I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there. I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany. Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea, 1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party. 2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down. 3/ You don't think it matters. " yeah ... but do you think motherwell have a chance of lifting the cup | |||
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"2 party system must go we need a real 3rd party who is thinking of the country they would walk the next election forget Ukip they are dead needs someone who knows what the people want Are you referring to England or the UK? Three of the four nations have greater diversity of choice. Some of that is because their sense of national identity has evolved into poltiical movements. No-one in England seems willing to embrace English identity. " Yet as soon as someone does they are called little englanders/racists etc etc | |||
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"You may joke mate but I think you will see civil unrest on a scale never seen before if the government go against the people's wishes. I'm totally shitting myself at the thought of the massed ranks of BREXITERS manning their Zimmer frames in an angry mass shuffle down Whitehall. But let me tell you this. If the rabid right try to violence, vandalism and intimidation to overthrow our Government, what ever colour that may be at the time, they will be treated no less harshly than Arthur Scargill and the loony left were in the 80s. We're not so easily scared. The police could call on you to sort them out if they need help.I will keep an eye out for you on the news, you will be the one with the yellow streak on his back running as fast as possible from the trouble!Lol
I steer clear of trouble generally. I don't see the need.
But lawlessness from the right will not be tolerated any more now than it was from the left in the 80s.
You scared of a few pensioners on zimmer frames then!
That yellow streak must be back and front! Best get your mobility scooter turbo charged! Lol
I think you will find leaver voters come from both the left and the right otherwise why would so many labour areas have voted out!
There's nothing new about people who have historically voted Labour switching all the way to BNP. This not meant as an attack on the Labour Party as such but, having been involved in politics most of my life and canvassed and talked to many voters, some of the people who have expressed to me some of the most right wing social views, when asked whether they were likely to vote Labour, LibDem or Conservative have more often than not said Labour. Go figure!
So we are back to everyone who voted leave is a racist again! "Some" isn't all is it so therefore left wing voters did vote for leave so go figure yourself!"I've never said everyone who voted leave is a racist and I wasn't even really thinking about racism in my comment. I actually had more in mind things like nationalism, authoritarianism, crime & punishment and discipline in civil society. With regards to rasism the only recent comments I've made on the subject is that just dismissing people's comments as rasist or xenophobic, while not addressing people's often genuine conserns that have led them to make those comments, does nothing to help solve the problem. | |||
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"The media,rich and the system have always brain washed the people to get their own way and keep control. So sadly remain will win out you can't beat the system, heaven forbid the lower classes have a say and upset their cosy life style. EU is good for you rich and powerful so end of story " So that's why BoJo, Fox, Mogg and Fararge support BREXIT so much. Because they're poor, lower class people looking to up set the cosy like styles the rich and powerful who work a Jaguar, British Aerospace, Nisan and Toyota. Glad you cleared that misunderstanding up for everyone. | |||
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"I've seen the following posted around facebook and not sure if any of it is true esp the bits about EU grants however if a lot of these jobs did leave the UK before brexit was a thing, does that mean the argument that brexit will lead to job losses is a mute point as job losses to Europe were already happening? I'm sure somebody with the time on their hands could investigate further Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant. Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant. Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds. Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant. British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales. Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan. Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200. M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan. Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants. Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant. Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant. Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant. Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding. Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing. ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase. JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry. UK airports are owned by a Spanish company. Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company. Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies. The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online. Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada. 39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently. Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations. I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there. I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany. Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea, 1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party. 2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down. 3/ You don't think it matters. " You have taken all of this from anti-EU sites and press with almost completely incorrect information. You have found every lie available and cut and pasted it. Most of this is private firms moving manufacturing to lower wage economies or in more efficient plants for them as a business. It's how companies work. Do you believe the outcome would have been different outside the EU? Why's Trump so angry do you think? None of these "EU grants" for moving exist. The only thing that there is any evidence for is a £150million loan from the European Investment Bank to Ford Turkey approved by the UK. I would have thought that the £490million loan to Ford UK would have been more likely to keep them here though. The fishing industry sold its licenses and didn't fish much in European waters before joining anyway. Farmers are not paid to not farm for more money they could make. Feel free to show your working though. Which EU bureaucracy has torn your company down? Name 5 pieces. The European People's Party has some genuinely terrifying ideas though: Freedom as a central human right, coupled with responsibility Respect for traditions and associations Solidarity to help those in need, who in turn should also make an effort to improve their situation Ensuring solid public finances Preserving a healthy environment Subsidiarity Pluralist democracy and a Social Market Economy The manifesto also describes the EPP's priorities for the EU, including: European Political Union Direct election of the President of the European Commission Completion of the European Single Market Promotion of the family, improvements in education and health Strengthening of the common immigration and asylum policy, and integrating immigrants Continuation of enlargement of the EU, enhancement of the European Neighbourhood Policy and special relationship frameworks for countries that cannot, or do not want to, join the EU Defining a true common EU energy policy Strengthening European political parties Electoral manifesto Edit As a central part of its campaign for the European elections in 2009 the EPP approved its election manifesto at its Congress in Warsaw in April that year. The manifesto called for: Creation of new jobs, continuing reforms and investment in education, lifelong learning, and employment in order to create opportunities for everyone. Avoidance of protectionism, and coordination of fiscal and monetary policies. Increased transparency and surveillance in financial markets. Making Europe the market leader in green technology. Increasing the share of renewable energy to at least 20 per cent of the energy mix by 2020.;. Family-friendly flexibility for working parents, better child care and housing, family-friendly fiscal policies, encouragement of parental leave. A new strategy to attract skilled workers from the rest of the world to make Europe’s economy more competitive, more dynamic and more knowledge-driven | |||
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"I've seen the following posted around facebook and not sure if any of it is true esp the bits about EU grants however if a lot of these jobs did leave the UK before brexit was a thing, does that mean the argument that brexit will lead to job losses is a mute point as job losses to Europe were already happening? I'm sure somebody with the time on their hands could investigate further Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant. Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant. Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds. Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant. British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales. Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan. Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200. M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan. Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants. Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant. Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant. Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant. Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding. Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing. ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase. JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry. UK airports are owned by a Spanish company. Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company. Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies. The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online. Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada. 39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently. Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations. I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there. I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany. Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea, 1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party. 2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down. 3/ You don't think it matters. You have taken all of this from anti-EU sites and press with almost completely incorrect information. You have found every lie available and cut and pasted it. Most of this is private firms moving manufacturing to lower wage economies or in more efficient plants for them as a business. It's how companies work. Do you believe the outcome would have been different outside the EU? Why's Trump so angry do you think? None of these "EU grants" for moving exist. The only thing that there is any evidence for is a £150million loan from the European Investment Bank to Ford Turkey approved by the UK. I would have thought that the £490million loan to Ford UK would have been more likely to keep them here though. The fishing industry sold its licenses and didn't fish much in European waters before joining anyway. Farmers are not paid to not farm for more money they could make. Feel free to show your working though. Which EU bureaucracy has torn your company down? Name 5 pieces. The European People's Party has some genuinely terrifying ideas though: Freedom as a central human right, coupled with responsibility Respect for traditions and associations Solidarity to help those in need, who in turn should also make an effort to improve their situation Ensuring solid public finances Preserving a healthy environment Subsidiarity Pluralist democracy and a Social Market Economy The manifesto also describes the EPP's priorities for the EU, including: European Political Union Direct election of the President of the European Commission Completion of the European Single Market Promotion of the family, improvements in education and health Strengthening of the common immigration and asylum policy, and integrating immigrants Continuation of enlargement of the EU, enhancement of the European Neighbourhood Policy and special relationship frameworks for countries that cannot, or do not want to, join the EU Defining a true common EU energy policy Strengthening European political parties Electoral manifesto Edit As a central part of its campaign for the European elections in 2009 the EPP approved its election manifesto at its Congress in Warsaw in April that year. The manifesto called for: Creation of new jobs, continuing reforms and investment in education, lifelong learning, and employment in order to create opportunities for everyone. Avoidance of protectionism, and coordination of fiscal and monetary policies. Increased transparency and surveillance in financial markets. Making Europe the market leader in green technology. Increasing the share of renewable energy to at least 20 per cent of the energy mix by 2020.;. Family-friendly flexibility for working parents, better child care and housing, family-friendly fiscal policies, encouragement of parental leave. A new strategy to attract skilled workers from the rest of the world to make Europe’s economy more competitive, more dynamic and more knowledge-driven" I think you missed the first paragraph! | |||
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"I've seen the following posted around facebook and not sure if any of it is true esp the bits about EU grants however if a lot of these jobs did leave the UK before brexit was a thing, does that mean the argument that brexit will lead to job losses is a mute point as job losses to Europe were already happening? I'm sure somebody with the time on their hands could investigate further Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant. Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant. Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds. Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant. British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales. Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan. Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200. M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan. Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants. Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant. Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant. Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant. Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding. Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing. ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase. JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry. UK airports are owned by a Spanish company. Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company. Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies. The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online. Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada. 39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently. Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations. I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there. I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany. Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea, 1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party. 2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down. 3/ You don't think it matters. " Or possibly 4/ We check what we read to find the real truth and facts and only then make a decision. Nearly everything you've written in your post regarding the EU is simply not true. Here's the false claim and then the truth, where possible with links to supporting articles. I've not done them all because, quite frankly, I was starting to loose the will to live. Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant. Cadbury was bought by Kraft. Kraft shafted Cadbury. The EU had nothing to do with it. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cadbury-closes-british-factory-to-move-101746 Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds. Yes, Jaguar Land Rover built a new factory in Slovakia. No it was not with an EU grant. And Tata is Indian so what’s that got to do with it? https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/dec/11/jaguar-land-rover-factory-slovakia-uk-jobs-union Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant. Peugeot did move production to Slovakia, but again without an EU grant. There was an investigation as to whether Slovakia improperly gave EU money to Peugeot, but nothing seems to have come of it. http://www.birminghampost.co.uk/news/local-news/subsidise-peugeot-jobs-axe-3983259 Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant. This is the only one that seems to have some truth in it. Ford did get a loan (not a grant) from the EU for their Turkish plant (which was already building most of the Transits), and after that their Southampton plant closed. The EU had already loaned money to Ford UK but that doesn’t appear to have saved it. http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10026411.Focus_on_Ford__The___80m_EU_loan_for_Ford_s_Turkish_Transit_plant/ British Army’s new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales. Yes, the Ajax will be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel but not at the request of the EU. Blame our own government for that one, they commissioned it. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/british-armys-new-fighting-vehicles-7928358 Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan. Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200. M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan. Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant. Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant. Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding. Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing. All these factories did indeed move overseas. But not with EU money. Sticking “with EU grant” on the end of a sentence doesn’t make it a fact. Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants. What does this even mean? Hornby is still a UK company, and in fact has bought many European companies. Like many companies it moved manufacturing to China, but that’s nothing to do with the EU. ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs Yes ICI was bought by AkzoNobel, but not with EU money. I can find no evidence that factories were closed at the time. Since then, AkzoNobel has closed a couple of plants because it has built a new one in Gateshead. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/56d5da5c-a7ea-11e0-afc2-00144feabdc0.html Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase. Stefano Pessina isn’t a company, he’s a person. He bought out his own company, Alliance Boots, in 2007, and is now in charge of Walgreen Boots Alliance, formed in 2012. Boots was not bought with EU money. And although they are headquartered in Switzerland to avoid tax, their UK operations are firmly based here and they are a major UK employer. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2007/jun/21/privateequity JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU ‘regeneration’ grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry. I can’t even find out where this story originated. If you know, please enlighten me! JDSU was an American company; I have no idea where this Dutch element crept in. If they’d left us with a pollution nightmare and raided the pensions I would have thought it would be at least mentioned on their Wikipedia page, under “Controversies” or something…. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JDSU UK airports are owned by a Spanish company. Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company. Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies. The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online. The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently. Yes, most of this is true or mostly true, I’m starting to lose the will to check. But what does any of that have to do with the EU? They didn’t make our companies sell to the Spanish and French and Germans, these things just happen. It’s called capitalism, and UK companies buy out European companies and close down their factories too. And it’s our government who handed Hinckley Point over to the French and Chinese. Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it’s Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada. Yes… except the EU grants bit. Just can’t find any evidence of that. 39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU This statement doesn’t even make sense. Passed by whom, passed how? I can only assume that although the numbers don't fit with any recent statistics, it must mean “granted”. Some number of UK patents have been granted to foreign companies. Well yes, of course, that’s how the patent system works. Ideally, you get a patent wherever you are going to sell your product. You don’t have to be a native of that country to get it. UK companies get patents in foreign countries too, that’s how it works. Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn’t paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., There’s plenty of UK technology companies. In my job I see them come and go and come and go… it’s just the way things are. Maybe they aren’t the old fashioned build-things-in-a-factory companies, but they’re still technology companies. Shazam, for example. and now we don’t even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations. I give up. Now you’re just making shit up. With thanks to "I Love the EU" - "No, the EU does not fund companies to move jobs out of the UK" | |||
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"I've seen the following posted around facebook and not sure if any of it is true esp the bits about EU grants however if a lot of these jobs did leave the UK before brexit was a thing, does that mean the argument that brexit will lead to job losses is a mute point as job losses to Europe were already happening? I'm sure somebody with the time on their hands could investigate further Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant. Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant. Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds. Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant. British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales. Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan. Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200. M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan. Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants. Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant. Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant. Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant. Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding. Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing. ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase. JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry. UK airports are owned by a Spanish company. Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company. Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies. The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online. Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada. 39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently. Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations. I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there. I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany. Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea, 1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party. 2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down. 3/ You don't think it matters. Or possibly 4/ We check what we read to find the real truth and facts and only then make a decision. Nearly everything you've written in your post regarding the EU is simply not true. Here's the false claim and then the truth, where possible with links to supporting articles. I've not done them all because, quite frankly, I was starting to loose the will to live. Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant. Cadbury was bought by Kraft. Kraft shafted Cadbury. The EU had nothing to do with it. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cadbury-closes-british-factory-to-move-101746 Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds. Yes, Jaguar Land Rover built a new factory in Slovakia. No it was not with an EU grant. And Tata is Indian so what’s that got to do with it? https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/dec/11/jaguar-land-rover-factory-slovakia-uk-jobs-union Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant. Peugeot did move production to Slovakia, but again without an EU grant. There was an investigation as to whether Slovakia improperly gave EU money to Peugeot, but nothing seems to have come of it. http://www.birminghampost.co.uk/news/local-news/subsidise-peugeot-jobs-axe-3983259 Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant. This is the only one that seems to have some truth in it. Ford did get a loan (not a grant) from the EU for their Turkish plant (which was already building most of the Transits), and after that their Southampton plant closed. The EU had already loaned money to Ford UK but that doesn’t appear to have saved it. http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10026411.Focus_on_Ford__The___80m_EU_loan_for_Ford_s_Turkish_Transit_plant/ British Army’s new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales. Yes, the Ajax will be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel but not at the request of the EU. Blame our own government for that one, they commissioned it. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/british-armys-new-fighting-vehicles-7928358 Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan. Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200. M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan. Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant. Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant. Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding. Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing. All these factories did indeed move overseas. But not with EU money. Sticking “with EU grant” on the end of a sentence doesn’t make it a fact. Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants. What does this even mean? Hornby is still a UK company, and in fact has bought many European companies. Like many companies it moved manufacturing to China, but that’s nothing to do with the EU. ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs Yes ICI was bought by AkzoNobel, but not with EU money. I can find no evidence that factories were closed at the time. Since then, AkzoNobel has closed a couple of plants because it has built a new one in Gateshead. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/56d5da5c-a7ea-11e0-afc2-00144feabdc0.html Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase. Stefano Pessina isn’t a company, he’s a person. He bought out his own company, Alliance Boots, in 2007, and is now in charge of Walgreen Boots Alliance, formed in 2012. Boots was not bought with EU money. And although they are headquartered in Switzerland to avoid tax, their UK operations are firmly based here and they are a major UK employer. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2007/jun/21/privateequity JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU ‘regeneration’ grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry. I can’t even find out where this story originated. If you know, please enlighten me! JDSU was an American company; I have no idea where this Dutch element crept in. If they’d left us with a pollution nightmare and raided the pensions I would have thought it would be at least mentioned on their Wikipedia page, under “Controversies” or something…. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JDSU UK airports are owned by a Spanish company. Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company. Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies. The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online. The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently. Yes, most of this is true or mostly true, I’m starting to lose the will to check. But what does any of that have to do with the EU? They didn’t make our companies sell to the Spanish and French and Germans, these things just happen. It’s called capitalism, and UK companies buy out European companies and close down their factories too. And it’s our government who handed Hinckley Point over to the French and Chinese. Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it’s Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada. Yes… except the EU grants bit. Just can’t find any evidence of that. 39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU This statement doesn’t even make sense. Passed by whom, passed how? I can only assume that although the numbers don't fit with any recent statistics, it must mean “granted”. Some number of UK patents have been granted to foreign companies. Well yes, of course, that’s how the patent system works. Ideally, you get a patent wherever you are going to sell your product. You don’t have to be a native of that country to get it. UK companies get patents in foreign countries too, that’s how it works. Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn’t paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., There’s plenty of UK technology companies. In my job I see them come and go and come and go… it’s just the way things are. Maybe they aren’t the old fashioned build-things-in-a-factory companies, but they’re still technology companies. Shazam, for example. and now we don’t even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations. I give up. Now you’re just making shit up. With thanks to "I Love the EU" - "No, the EU does not fund companies to move jobs out of the UK" " Please read the first paragraph of my original post! | |||
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"I've seen the following posted around facebook and not sure if any of it is true esp the bits about EU grants however if a lot of these jobs did leave the UK before brexit was a thing, does that mean the argument that brexit will lead to job losses is a mute point as job losses to Europe were already happening? I'm sure somebody with the time on their hands could investigate further Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant. Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant. Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds. Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant. British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales. Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan. Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200. M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan. Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants. Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant. Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant. Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant. Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding. Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing. ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase. JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry. UK airports are owned by a Spanish company. Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company. Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies. The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online. Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada. 39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently. Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations. I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there. I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany. Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea, 1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party. 2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down. 3/ You don't think it matters. You have taken all of this from anti-EU sites and press with almost completely incorrect information. You have found every lie available and cut and pasted it. Most of this is private firms moving manufacturing to lower wage economies or in more efficient plants for them as a business. It's how companies work. Do you believe the outcome would have been different outside the EU? Why's Trump so angry do you think? None of these "EU grants" for moving exist. The only thing that there is any evidence for is a £150million loan from the European Investment Bank to Ford Turkey approved by the UK. I would have thought that the £490million loan to Ford UK would have been more likely to keep them here though. The fishing industry sold its licenses and didn't fish much in European waters before joining anyway. Farmers are not paid to not farm for more money they could make. Feel free to show your working though. Which EU bureaucracy has torn your company down? Name 5 pieces. The European People's Party has some genuinely terrifying ideas though: Freedom as a central human right, coupled with responsibility Respect for traditions and associations Solidarity to help those in need, who in turn should also make an effort to improve their situation Ensuring solid public finances Preserving a healthy environment Subsidiarity Pluralist democracy and a Social Market Economy The manifesto also describes the EPP's priorities for the EU, including: European Political Union Direct election of the President of the European Commission Completion of the European Single Market Promotion of the family, improvements in education and health Strengthening of the common immigration and asylum policy, and integrating immigrants Continuation of enlargement of the EU, enhancement of the European Neighbourhood Policy and special relationship frameworks for countries that cannot, or do not want to, join the EU Defining a true common EU energy policy Strengthening European political parties Electoral manifesto Edit As a central part of its campaign for the European elections in 2009 the EPP approved its election manifesto at its Congress in Warsaw in April that year. The manifesto called for: Creation of new jobs, continuing reforms and investment in education, lifelong learning, and employment in order to create opportunities for everyone. Avoidance of protectionism, and coordination of fiscal and monetary policies. Increased transparency and surveillance in financial markets. Making Europe the market leader in green technology. Increasing the share of renewable energy to at least 20 per cent of the energy mix by 2020.;. Family-friendly flexibility for working parents, better child care and housing, family-friendly fiscal policies, encouragement of parental leave. A new strategy to attract skilled workers from the rest of the world to make Europe’s economy more competitive, more dynamic and more knowledge-driven I think you missed the first paragraph!" So what point were you making?  | |||
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"Firstly as stated in the post, I say that I've seen this been shared on Facebook and I'm unsure of its accuracy, I haven't made this up personally. secondly, I hear it constantly said that brexit will lead to mass job losses but If lots of jobs have been continuously moved to other countries wouldn't this continue with or without brexit anyway. Btw I'm neither a remainer or a brexiteer. I'm an EU cousin who hopes brexit will bring unification of my country a step closer, something I never thought possible in my life time." You have repeated a lie in blaming the EU. Jobs have moved all over the world. That's how business works. Being in the EU has provided some economic insulation so far and an advantage in reduced costs across non-borders. When this goes what's the reason to keep any work here? Reduced tax and working conditions to even keep what we have? Fewer services? Drop tariffs and make foreign goods cheaper? | |||
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"Firstly as stated in the post, I say that I've seen this been shared on Facebook and I'm unsure of its accuracy, I haven't made this up personally. secondly, I hear it constantly said that brexit will lead to mass job losses but If lots of jobs have been continuously moved to other countries wouldn't this continue with or without brexit anyway. Btw I'm neither a remainer or a brexiteer. I'm an EU cousin who hopes brexit will bring unification of my country a step closer, something I neve6r thought possible in my life time." There is all most no chance of a peaceful United Ireland outside of union (such as the European Union) that includes both Great Britain and Ireland. | |||
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"Firstly as stated in the post, I say that I've seen this been shared on Facebook and I'm unsure of its accuracy, I haven't made this up personally. secondly, I hear it constantly said that brexit will lead to mass job losses but If lots of jobs have been continuously moved to other countries wouldn't this continue with or without brexit anyway. Btw I'm neither a remainer or a brexiteer. I'm an EU cousin who hopes brexit will bring unification of my country a step closer, something I never thought possible in my life time. You have repeated a lie in blaming the EU. Jobs have moved all over the world. That's how business works. Being in the EU has provided some economic insulation so far and an advantage in reduced costs across non-borders. When this goes what's the reason to keep any work here? Reduced tax and working conditions to even keep what we have? Fewer services? Drop tariffs and make foreign goods cheaper?" We have established that businesses move production to lower cost economies to maximize profits, we have also established that this has been happening before brexit was a thing and probably before the UK joined the EU. Therefore we could conclude that this trend would continue regardless of the brexit vote. Or on the other hand will the UK fall off the cliff and become a barren wasteland reminiscent of the fall of the ussr where people queue for bread | |||
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"“We can’t be bargained with, we can’t be reasoned with, we don’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear, And we absolutely will not stop, ever, until we get hard Brexit.” Paul Oakley, UKIP immigration spokesman - BREXIT Betrayal March 9/February/2018 Well we always knew that most BREXITERS were unreasonable and can't be bargained with. It also comes as no surprise that they have no pity for the millions of people, both here and across Europe, who's lives will be adversely effected by a hard BREXIT. Nothing new here. " You've got your dates wrong, was yesterday 9th December 2018, not February. It's a take on a quote from the Terminator film he was using there. | |||
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"“We can’t be bargained with, we can’t be reasoned with, we don’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear, And we absolutely will not stop, ever, until we get hard Brexit.” Paul Oakley, UKIP immigration spokesman - BREXIT Betrayal March 9/February/2018 Well we always knew that most BREXITERS were unreasonable and can't be bargained with. It also comes as no surprise that they have no pity for the millions of people, both here and across Europe, who's lives will be adversely effected by a hard BREXIT. Nothing new here. You've got your dates wrong, was yesterday 9th December 2018, not February. It's a take on a quote from the Terminator film he was using there. " Mocro-victory | |||
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"“We can’t be bargained with, we can’t be reasoned with, we don’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear, And we absolutely will not stop, ever, until we get hard Brexit.” Paul Oakley, UKIP immigration spokesman - BREXIT Betrayal March 9/December/2018 Well we always knew that most BREXITERS were unreasonable and can't be bargained with. It also comes as no surprise that they have no pity for the millions of people, both here and across Europe, who's lives will be adversely effected by a hard BREXIT. Nothing new here. You've got your dates wrong, was yesterday 9th December 2018, not February. It's a take on a quote from the Terminator film he was using there. " Dohh!!. Corrected in the copy. | |||
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"whatever .... barely 1000 attended the righties for racism march ... what a fucking joke lol "Let's call it what it was. The BREXIT Betrayal March. BREXITERS claimed this was going to be their big day. The day they showed the country how much real support there is for their hard, 'no deal' BREXIT. Let's not give them the excuse that the supporters for their crazy form of BREXIT stayed away because some racists were there. This was BREXITS "people's march" and they got at best estimates of 3000 people. I think this puts the lie to their threats, trying to intimidate Parliament and the people, that there'll be violence in the streets and mass civil unrest and possible civil war if we don't capitulate to their demands. It's just as much a BREXITER's Fantacy as the land of milk, honey, flying elephants and unicorns that they fantasies about if we leave. | |||
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"well that was a pathetic waste of time "No, it was comedy gold. | |||
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