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"Hammond told MPs today it will take Dover at least two years to put in place the infrastructure needed to go it alone. Britain has not prepared for leaving the EU on anything other than ‘business as usual’ terms. How much clearer does it need to be?" Doesn't this just highlight how incompetent and negligent Hammond and May have been then? They should have started preparing for no deal 2 years ago when they triggered article 50. People like Nigel Farage and former Bank of England governor Mervyn King told them to start preparing (properly) for no deal 2 years ago. Hammond was in charge of the purse strings and refused to release the necessary funds and the buck stops with May because she is Prime minister and she took personal responsibility for the negotiations. | |||
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"It's been obvious throughout there has been no planning, no provision, no funding. The Vote Leave people did not have any sort of plan, only slogans. The Brexit cheerleaders gained high office in order to implement their vision. They had the opportunity to lead their flock to the promised land. They opted not to. They had no plans either. Other than a high-handed sense that their own superiority would see them through against those pesky foreigners. May and Hammond had no plan either. All too difficult, too expensive. The EU did not need to do a thing - they could see Britain wallowing in self-pity, its leadership inept, incompetent and out its depth. They just sat back and let these people slide deeper into the rabbit hole. These people - the clueless Brexit cheerleaders for whom it's all a jolly jape, the Conservative Party that didn't want Brexit and then claimed ownership of it . . . the people who promised you Brexit and led you well and truly up the garden path. " Brexit secretary David Davis and Steve Baker were working on their plan in the department for exiting the EU, then Theresa May threw it out and put her own plan into place she had been working on in secret with her personal Europhile Brexit advisor Olly Robbins. So to say Brexiters never had a plan is false. Why do you think Davis and Baker resigned the day after Chequers when Theresa May sprung this new plan on them. | |||
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" Brexit secretary David Davis and Steve Baker were working on their plan in the department for exiting the EU, then Theresa May threw it out and put her own plan into place she had been working on in secret with her personal Europhile Brexit advisor Olly Robbins. So to say Brexiters never had a plan is false. Why do you think Davis and Baker resigned the day after Chequers when Theresa May sprung this new plan on them. " A Brexit plan for leaving the EU. Presumably setting out all the programmes, infrastructure and investment required by business and government departments. Hurrah! I guess it must be on a website somewhere. Do you have a link? | |||
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"Hammond told MPs today it will take Dover at least two years to put in place the infrastructure needed to go it alone. Britain has not prepared for leaving the EU on anything other than ‘business as usual’ terms. How much clearer does it need to be?" You didn’t get that quite right. He said that he didn’t think that two years would be enough just to get planning for the infrastructure - let alone put it in place. | |||
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"I heard Boris Johnson on the telly today, complaining that the UK had wasted 2.5 years in making no preparations for a no-deal exit. If it had, the UK would’ve been in a stronger position to negotiate a deal with the EU because the EU would’ve taken the UK more seriously. If only we’d had someone like Johnson in the Cabinet these last two years we’d never have been in this mess, eh? "Better still a "shadow plan" from leave so the government could be informed just what leave wanted? I had heard that they did have a plan - on the back of a fag packet - but it blew out Boris's hand when Gove farted!  | |||
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"I may have made this up, but I’m sure at one point people were saying we shouldn’t plan for no deal as it would weaken our position by admitting defeat or something. " How would it weaken our position?...it would show that we are preparing and prepared to do something insane. | |||
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"It's been obvious throughout there has been no planning, no provision, no funding. The Vote Leave people did not have any sort of plan, only slogans. The Brexit cheerleaders gained high office in order to implement their vision. They had the opportunity to lead their flock to the promised land. They opted not to. They had no plans either. Other than a high-handed sense that their own superiority would see them through against those pesky foreigners. May and Hammond had no plan either. All too difficult, too expensive. The EU did not need to do a thing - they could see Britain wallowing in self-pity, its leadership inept, incompetent and out its depth. They just sat back and let these people slide deeper into the rabbit hole. These people - the clueless Brexit cheerleaders for whom it's all a jolly jape, the Conservative Party that didn't want Brexit and then claimed ownership of it . . . the people who promised you Brexit and led you well and truly up the garden path. Brexit secretary David Davis and Steve Baker were working on their plan in the department for exiting the EU, then Theresa May threw it out and put her own plan into place she had been working on in secret with her personal Europhile Brexit advisor Olly Robbins. So to say Brexiters never had a plan is false. Why do you think Davis and Baker resigned the day after Chequers when Theresa May sprung this new plan on them. " David Davis and Steve Baker come up with a plan!? Seriously, they couldn’t even be bothered to meet with the Eu to negotiate - we should ask for them to pay their salaries back as they were clearly not competent  | |||
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"The goverment has never prepare for a no deal because it believes by not doing so we will not be able to leave the EU.Any fool could see that getting a deal out of the EU was never possible.We could not get a good deal when we were married to the EU so it is a given that we would not get one when we divorce them. " So what exactly were the Brexit cheerleaders doing in Government the last two years? Crosswords? Your own cheerleaders sold you down the river, did they? | |||
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"The goverment has never prepare for a no deal because it believes by not doing so we will not be able to leave the EU.Any fool could see that getting a deal out of the EU was never possible.We could not get a good deal when we were married to the EU so it is a given that we would not get one when we divorce them. So what exactly were the Brexit cheerleaders doing in Government the last two years? Crosswords? Your own cheerleaders sold you down the river, did they?" Think you will find May is a remainder as was David.May is just going through the motions.Had a real dye in the wool leaver been in charge from the begin they would have pulled the plug on the EU from the very begin.Why do you presume i'm a leaver? | |||
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"Departments across Whitehall have been run by Brexiteers ever since the referendum. They all sit in Cabinet. What preparations did they make? None Why? Because the hubris of Brexit made it possible to believe a non-member state would get better terms from the EU than a member state. Those German car manufacturers, remember them and how the EU would kow-tow to their demands. It’s been a crock of shit from day one." Cannot argue your last point however a ship is sailed by the orders of its captain to blame the crew when it hits the rocks is a tad unfair. | |||
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"Departments across Whitehall have been run by Brexiteers ever since the referendum. They all sit in Cabinet. What preparations did they make? None Why? Because the hubris of Brexit made it possible to believe a non-member state would get better terms from the EU than a member state. Those German car manufacturers, remember them and how the EU would kow-tow to their demands. It’s been a crock of shit from day one.Cannot argue your last point however a ship is sailed by the orders of its captain to blame the crew when it hits the rocks is a tad unfair. " captain cameron and first mate farage were faster getting into the life boat than an italian cruise liner skipper | |||
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"Such a decisive topic however we tend to look back only 30/40 years where we should look back much further. Do we not have self belief in our ability’s to develop new channels of business, do we not have talented younger people who can innovate and open new industry’s. People, process, policy can adapt when called upon to do so. A democratic vote was undertaken and the result was decided unfortunately a exceptionally strong negotiating team which should of included our best and most successful business leaders was not initiated and political point scoring seems to be even more prevalent as we move closer to March. I respect both sides of the fence however I also believe in delivering on the largest populist vote in our countries history" No. That is the problem We *do* have talented younger people who can innovate and open new industries. However they have been building them on the basis of being in the EU, and had the rug ripped out from under them. How many times do you hear leave voters saying "I voted for the sake of my kids" and then you see that the vast majority of the younger voters voted to stay. You say we should look back further than 30-40 years... well this is the problem, we are *not* in the same world as 30, 40 or further years back. And the strategies that worked then would not work in the current world. -Matt | |||
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"Such a decisive topic however we tend to look back only 30/40 years where we should look back much further. Do we not have self belief in our ability’s to develop new channels of business, do we not have talented younger people who can innovate and open new industry’s. People, process, policy can adapt when called upon to do so. A democratic vote was undertaken and the result was decided unfortunately a exceptionally strong negotiating team which should of included our best and most successful business leaders was not initiated and political point scoring seems to be even more prevalent as we move closer to March. I respect both sides of the fence however I also believe in delivering on the largest populist vote in our countries history No. That is the problem We *do* have talented younger people who can innovate and open new industries. However they have been building them on the basis of being in the EU, and had the rug ripped out from under them. How many times do you hear leave voters saying "I voted for the sake of my kids" and then you see that the vast majority of the younger voters voted to stay. You say we should look back further than 30-40 years... well this is the problem, we are *not* in the same world as 30, 40 or further years back. And the strategies that worked then would not work in the current world. -Matt" Trade will always find a way. We traded as a country long before before the EU was formed and will do long after it has gone.The country just need to grow a pair and step up to the plate. | |||
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"The EU set out their stall very early on,it was their way or the highway.You cannot made deals with a body that does not want to deal.Therefore the only action you are left with is to walk away with your money in your back pocket.To do anything else is futile. " I agree, and quite frankly the posts of the remoaner in here is giving me headaches. The doom and gloom forecasts are being regurgitated over and over again. But it’s the same old same old. I’m still hoping that we do tell the EU to stick any deal they offer us, including May’s betrayal, up their EU arses. I do believe that it is the only way we can come out of this with any kind of success: But then I’m not agreeing with the remoaners so I’m going to be called stupid or whatever else the liberals on here like to call people who don’t agree with them... | |||
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"The EU set out their stall very early on,it was their way or the highway.You cannot made deals with a body that does not want to deal.Therefore the only action you are left with is to walk away with your money in your back pocket.To do anything else is futile. I agree, and quite frankly the posts of the remoaner in here is giving me headaches. The doom and gloom forecasts are being regurgitated over and over again. But it’s the same old same old. I’m still hoping that we do tell the EU to stick any deal they offer us, including May’s betrayal, up their EU arses. I do believe that it is the only way we can come out of this with any kind of success: But then I’m not agreeing with the remoaners so I’m going to be called stupid or whatever else the liberals on here like to call people who don’t agree with them..." No plan is better than a half-arsed plan? Do you really think that running a country based on instinct and patriotism is the way to go? | |||
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"Hi Correct we are not the same as we were 30/40 years ago however the EU as a model is clearer not the future either and therefore why would we want to part of a failing model it makes no long term political or business sense. yes Funding has been given to educate however innovation comes in many ways just look at tomorrow’s growth markets " How is it "clear"? The current anger within EU states is about the immigration of black and brown people and the odd Roma. We're the only ones who don't like other white people as well. You tell me how we go toe-to-toe with the USA, China and India? | |||
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"Such a decisive topic however we tend to look back only 30/40 years where we should look back much further. Do we not have self belief in our ability’s to develop new channels of business, do we not have talented younger people who can innovate and open new industry’s. People, process, policy can adapt when called upon to do so. A democratic vote was undertaken and the result was decided unfortunately a exceptionally strong negotiating team which should of included our best and most successful business leaders was not initiated and political point scoring seems to be even more prevalent as we move closer to March. I respect both sides of the fence however I also believe in delivering on the largest populist vote in our countries history No. That is the problem We *do* have talented younger people who can innovate and open new industries. However they have been building them on the basis of being in the EU, and had the rug ripped out from under them. How many times do you hear leave voters saying "I voted for the sake of my kids" and then you see that the vast majority of the younger voters voted to stay. You say we should look back further than 30-40 years... well this is the problem, we are *not* in the same world as 30, 40 or further years back. And the strategies that worked then would not work in the current world. -Matt Trade will always find a way. We traded as a country long before before the EU was formed and will do long after it has gone.The country just need to grow a pair and step up to the plate. " What a load of empty rhetoric. "Grow a pair". "Step up to the plate". Vacuous Americanism. Why do you keep talking about before the EU? Utterly irrelevant even though we were an economic basket case then. How big were China and India then? We are leading a major international power block. What do you want? "Our Empire" back? | |||
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"The EU set out their stall very early on,it was their way or the highway.You cannot made deals with a body that does not want to deal.Therefore the only action you are left with is to walk away with your money in your back pocket.To do anything else is futile. I do not think that is true. Every time Mrs May or colleagues met their counterparts, the line was the same: Tell us what you want. All they got was rhetoric - Brexit means Brexit, Red, white and blue Brexit, blah blah. They were very careful - and very consistent - to keep kicking the ball into Mrs May's court. All the while the clock was ticking down. The UK could not articulate what it wanted until the Chequers proposal came forward. One would think it hardly needed said that the terms for a non-member would be less advantageous than the terms for a member. Yet still there are those who believe you can keep the benefits of membership without being a member. I find that bizarre. " | |||
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"The EU set out their stall very early on,it was their way or the highway.You cannot made deals with a body that does not want to deal.Therefore the only action you are left with is to walk away with your money in your back pocket.To do anything else is futile. I do not think that is true. Every time Mrs May or colleagues met their counterparts, the line was the same: Tell us what you want. All they got was rhetoric - Brexit means Brexit, Red, white and blue Brexit, blah blah. They were very careful - and very consistent - to keep kicking the ball into Mrs May's court. All the while the clock was ticking down. The UK could not articulate what it wanted until the Chequers proposal came forward. One would think it hardly needed said that the terms for a non-member would be less advantageous than the terms for a member. Yet still there are those who believe you can keep the benefits of membership without being a member. I find that bizarre. " I find it naive | |||
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"What a load of empty rhetoric. "Grow a pair". "Step up to the plate". Vacuous Americanism. Why do you keep talking about before the EU? Utterly irrelevant even though we were an economic basket case then. How big were China and India then? We are leading a major international power block. What do you want? "Our Empire" back? What do you want the country to do then go and whimper in the corner like a scolded dog? " Well done addressing the points. Accepting reality. Either we change our position and remain if we want to retain some semblance of international influence and comparable prosperity or accept the reality that our influence will be significantly diminished and we will be poorer for a number of decades. Possibly permanently so. Stop lying to ourselves and blaming remainers for "betrayal" and the EU for being what, "mean" to us? | |||
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"Departments across Whitehall have been run by Brexiteers ever since the referendum. They all sit in Cabinet. What preparations did they make? None Why? Because the hubris of Brexit made it possible to believe a non-member state would get better terms from the EU than a member state. Those German car manufacturers, remember them and how the EU would kow-tow to their demands. It’s been a crock of shit from day one.Cannot argue your last point however a ship is sailed by the orders of its captain to blame the crew when it hits the rocks is a tad unfair. " She is apparently a "weak" leader. How does that reflect her team's will and ability then? Half the Cabinet and all of the outward facing offices of state were Brexiteers. | |||
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"What a load of empty rhetoric. "Grow a pair". "Step up to the plate". Vacuous Americanism. Why do you keep talking about before the EU? Utterly irrelevant even though we were an economic basket case then. How big were China and India then? We are leading a major international power block. What do you want? "Our Empire" back? " The EU is not a major international power block, it's share of world trade has been decreasing for years and is forecast to continue decreasing in future, it's a weak as piss, steaming pile of shit that is crumbling at the seams. The idea that we somehow 'lead in the EU' is for the birds, our voice on the world stage is greatly diminished by being a member we're just one voice of 28, and they hold a veto over whatever we say or decide, that's not a voice its a barely audible whisper. | |||
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"Departments across Whitehall have been run by Brexiteers ever since the referendum. They all sit in Cabinet. What preparations did they make? None Why? Because the hubris of Brexit made it possible to believe a non-member state would get better terms from the EU than a member state. Those German car manufacturers, remember them and how the EU would kow-tow to their demands. It’s been a crock of shit from day one.Cannot argue your last point however a ship is sailed by the orders of its captain to blame the crew when it hits the rocks is a tad unfair. " Well that's true if the crew are willing to follow the captain's orders but when the crew constantly threatern mutiny and refuse to steer the ship in the direction ordered by the captain it doesn't matter who the captain is the ship is going to end up on the rocks eventually. | |||
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"What a load of empty rhetoric. "Grow a pair". "Step up to the plate". Vacuous Americanism. Why do you keep talking about before the EU? Utterly irrelevant even though we were an economic basket case then. How big were China and India then? We are leading a major international power block. What do you want? "Our Empire" back? The EU is not a major international power block, it's share of world trade has been decreasing for years and is forecast to continue decreasing in future, it's a weak as piss, steaming pile of shit that is crumbling at the seams. The idea that we somehow 'lead in the EU' is for the birds, our voice on the world stage is greatly diminished by being a member we're just one voice of 28, and they hold a veto over whatever we say or decide, that's not a voice its a barely audible whisper. " Classic Brexiteer self-pity | |||
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"What a load of empty rhetoric. "Grow a pair". "Step up to the plate". Vacuous Americanism. Why do you keep talking about before the EU? Utterly irrelevant even though we were an economic basket case then. How big were China and India then? We are leading a major international power block. What do you want? "Our Empire" back? The EU is not a major international power block, it's share of world trade has been decreasing for years and is forecast to continue decreasing in future, it's a weak as piss, steaming pile of shit that is crumbling at the seams. The idea that we somehow 'lead in the EU' is for the birds, our voice on the world stage is greatly diminished by being a member we're just one voice of 28, and they hold a veto over whatever we say or decide, that's not a voice its a barely audible whisper. " Well done getting things completely wrong again
The EU is the second largest economy in the world.
It contains 7% of the world's population.
It is the fourth richest per person.
The world economy is growing and unsurprisingly poor countries grow faster from a small starting point, so of course the EU proportion is smaller. It's not becoming poorer though. Everyone else os catching up.
Most of the fast growth economies by almost nothing that we make. They want mainly cheap consumer goods.
The USA os also a declining power in economic terms so I assume we don't want anything to do with them either.
Such a large economy gives it huge power in trade negotiations. That's why it has more than 60 with major economies. That's why economic sanctions work when they choose to apply them.
When will you grasp that any "weakness" in the EU is due to the difficulty in fast decision making because...individual states have so much power?
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"What a load of empty rhetoric. "Grow a pair". "Step up to the plate". Vacuous Americanism. Why do you keep talking about before the EU? Utterly irrelevant even though we were an economic basket case then. How big were China and India then? We are leading a major international power block. What do you want? "Our Empire" back? The EU is not a major international power block, it's share of world trade has been decreasing for years and is forecast to continue decreasing in future, it's a weak as piss, steaming pile of shit that is crumbling at the seams. The idea that we somehow 'lead in the EU' is for the birds, our voice on the world stage is greatly diminished by being a member we're just one voice of 28, and they hold a veto over whatever we say or decide, that's not a voice its a barely audible whisper. " Our share has been decreasing for years and will likely continue to decrease. It’s what happens when the likes of China and India come to the trade table. Our gamble with leaving is we will still be high enough up the list for countries to want to even come and negotiate with us and that our smaller size (and therefore position in negotiations) will offset the risk of, say, Belgium forcing a negotiation to cede position in an area we benefit from. (There’s a question here of how, if we can’t have an internal negotiation with Belgium that lands in our favour, we expect to negotiate with the US. A veto only gives up so much power in practice.) | |||
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