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"So 10 % of 67 million is 6.7 million 10 % of 6.7 million is 670, 000 Half that its 335,000 280,000 you say ? So less than 1/2 a percent of the population of France is a Mass demonstration ?" As with the fuel protests that happened in the UK under the Blair Labour government, the protesters had a lot of support from people who didn't physically go out to take part in the protests. The same can be said in France with these protests yesterday. Also you don't mention anything about Macron's domestic poll ratings which are very low. | |||
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"So 10 % of 67 million is 6.7 million 10 % of 6.7 million is 670, 000 Half that its 335,000 280,000 you say ? So less than 1/2 a percent of the population of France is a Mass demonstration ?" Not too dissimilar from the peoples vote march in London a few weeks ago then. | |||
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"So 10 % of 67 million is 6.7 million 10 % of 6.7 million is 670, 000 Half that its 335,000 280,000 you say ? So less than 1/2 a percent of the population of France is a Mass demonstration ? As with the fuel protests that happened in the UK under the Blair Labour government, the protesters had a lot of support from people who didn't physically go out to take part in the protests. The same can be said in France with these protests yesterday. Also you don't mention anything about Macron's domestic poll ratings which are very low. " Maths wasn't your strong point at school! I shall in future be very sceptical about any figures which you quote!  | |||
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"So 10 % of 67 million is 6.7 million 10 % of 6.7 million is 670, 000 Half that its 335,000 280,000 you say ? So less than 1/2 a percent of the population of France is a Mass demonstration ? Not too dissimilar from the peoples vote march in London a few weeks ago then." LOL. You just beat me to that one.  | |||
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"So 10 % of 67 million is 6.7 million 10 % of 6.7 million is 670, 000 Half that its 335,000 280,000 you say ? So less than 1/2 a percent of the population of France is a Mass demonstration ? As with the fuel protests that happened in the UK under the Blair Labour government, the protesters had a lot of support from people who didn't physically go out to take part in the protests. The same can be said in France with these protests yesterday. Also you don't mention anything about Macron's domestic poll ratings which are very low. Maths wasn't your strong point at school! I shall in future be very sceptical about any figures which you quote! "Data is a weapon of maths destruction... | |||
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"Certain parallels are happening from history. Only this time the Uk and the US are onboard. " Onboard with what | |||
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"Certain parallels are happening from history. Only this time the Uk and the US are onboard. Onboard with what" The UK and the US stood alone (relatively) when facism swept across Europe. Now I don’t see that part of history repeating itself I see them joining in. Only this time it won’t be bullets it will be poverty. | |||
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"Ok we have 280,000 being cited on the forum by a prominent member, BBC news has just said "quarter of a million" (250,000) - so from now on unless someone has actually counted them individually then it's fake news! " The BBC news website was quoting 280,000 last night when I posted the thread. | |||
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"Certain parallels are happening from history. Only this time the Uk and the US are onboard. Onboard with what The UK and the US stood alone (relatively) when facism swept across Europe. Now I don’t see that part of history repeating itself I see them joining in. Only this time it won’t be bullets it will be poverty. " Maybe the Chinese will be the good guys this time .If not get tooled up and ready for the brown shirts.. | |||
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"Certain parallels are happening from history. Only this time the Uk and the US are onboard. Onboard with what The UK and the US stood alone (relatively) when facism swept across Europe. Now I don’t see that part of history repeating itself I see them joining in. Only this time it won’t be bullets it will be poverty. Maybe the Chinese will be the good guys this time .If not get tooled up and ready for the brown shirts.. "See you on Cable Street. | |||
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"Ok we have 280,000 being cited on the forum by a prominent member, BBC news has just said "quarter of a million" (250,000) - so from now on unless someone has actually counted them individually then it's fake news! The BBC news website was quoting 280,000 last night when I posted the thread. " Just checked and its still there on the BBC news website, here is the link if you want to check it out... www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46233560 The report says MORE than a quarter of a million people, and later in the write up gives a figure of 280,000, which the BBC say was given out by the France interior ministry. | |||
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"Ok we have 280,000 being cited on the forum by a prominent member, BBC news has just said "quarter of a million" (250,000) - so from now on unless someone has actually counted them individually then it's fake news! The BBC news website was quoting 280,000 last night when I posted the thread. " I heard that it was 800 billion people, and that only 14 showed up for the people’s vote March. Of course this is a sarcastic comment to show how you blindly believe anything that suits your alt right beliefs and mercilessly Attack anything that’s pro-Europe or anti-fascist. | |||
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"Certain parallels are happening from history. Only this time the Uk and the US are onboard. Onboard with what The UK and the US stood alone (relatively) when facism swept across Europe. Now I don’t see that part of history repeating itself I see them joining in. Only this time it won’t be bullets it will be poverty. Maybe the Chinese will be the good guys this time .If not get tooled up and ready for the brown shirts..
See you on Cable Street. "Unfortunately they no longer offer themselves up so easily.The alt right "movement " that is spreading is subtle and mindful of its media image.Steve bannon is no fool | |||
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"Mass demonstrations, and civil unrest broke out in France yesterday in protest at Emmanuel Macron and his government. The BBC reports up to 280,000 people demonstrated at up to 2000 different protest sites across the country. Roads, roundabouts and junctions were blocked by people unhappy with Macron's fuel tax rises. The Guardian writes "The scale of spontaneous popular revolt revealed an unexpected level of public discontent with President Macron, accused of being out of touch with the problems of ordinary people. Although sparked by higher fuel price's the protests revealed a wider crisis of confidence in the centrist government". Macron's domestic poll ratings are much lower than his predecessor Hollande's. The protests have left one woman dead and upto 106 people injured (7 seriously) as riot police clashed with protesters, according to sky news sources. Is the writing on the wall already for Macron in France and is he finished as President? What do you think his chances are of being re elected? " The number of injured has now been updated by the BBC from 106, to 227. Aljazeera also give a figure of around 220 injured. | |||
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"Ok we have 280,000 being cited on the forum by a prominent member, BBC news has just said "quarter of a million" (250,000) - so from now on unless someone has actually counted them individually then it's fake news! The BBC news website was quoting 280,000 last night when I posted the thread. I heard that it was 800 billion people, and that only 14 showed up for the people’s vote March. Of course this is a sarcastic comment to show how you blindly believe anything that suits your alt right beliefs and mercilessly Attack anything that’s pro-Europe or anti-fascist. " You truly are deluded fella. If you think it's 'alt right' to want to leave the EU, and if you think it's 'alt right' to want to respect a democratic result to leave then you seriously need help. Labour MP Kate Hoey wants to leave the EU, do you think she's 'alt right'? LOL Also the 280,000 figure is still on the BBC news website, i even gave the link in an earlier post. | |||
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"so many lies " Yes those who called it fake news were lying weren't they. | |||
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"so many lies Yes those who called it fake news were lying weren't they. " no you're a liar for attempting to brand the protests as anti macron and that the police have killed a person and injured 100's more ... that clearly a deliberate lie on your part. hardly surprising though as the racist alt right extremist white supremacist movement deploy the 'distort the truth to fit thier extremist narrative' tactic far too often now and everyone sees through the bullshit and lies | |||
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"Ok we have 280,000 being cited on the forum by a prominent member, BBC news has just said "quarter of a million" (250,000) - so from now on unless someone has actually counted them individually then it's fake news! The BBC news website was quoting 280,000 last night when I posted the thread. I heard that it was 800 billion people, and that only 14 showed up for the people’s vote March. Of course this is a sarcastic comment to show how you blindly believe anything that suits your alt right beliefs and mercilessly Attack anything that’s pro-Europe or anti-fascist. You truly are deluded fella. If you think it's 'alt right' to want to leave the EU, and if you think it's 'alt right' to want to respect a democratic result to leave then you seriously need help. Labour MP Kate Hoey wants to leave the EU, do you think she's 'alt right'? LOL Also the 280,000 figure is still on the BBC news website, i even gave the link in an earlier post. " I think your anger got the better of you. I didn’t say that. But seeing as your bring it up. The alt-right absolutely support leaving Europe. That’s completely correct. And no that doesn’t mean that all leavers are alt-right. I’m making fun of the way you defend the bbc numbers for a protest you support, when you’ve previously attacked the bbc for saying a certain number of people showed up to a protest in a London for a protest you don’t support. You’ll notice, I am not disputing the estimated number of protesters. | |||
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"so many lies Yes those who called it fake news were lying weren't they. no you're a liar for attempting to brand the protests as anti macron and that the police have killed a person and injured 100's more ... that clearly a deliberate lie on your part. hardly surprising though as the racist alt right extremist white supremacist movement deploy the 'distort the truth to fit thier extremist narrative' tactic far too often now and everyone sees through the bullshit and lies" I think you need to go and have a lie down in a darkened room as you're clearly hallucinating. I have NOT said anywhere on the thread that the police killed a person, it says on the link i provided to the BBC how the person was killed (clue = it wasn't the police) so to say otherwise would be stupid. Did you actually bother to read the link to the BBC news website? As it states on the BBC link that it was as much a protest against Macron as it was against fuel price increases. If you do a Google search for 'French Fuel protests' you'll see its the lefts favourite newspaper The Guardian, which has gone with the Headline "Its Macron's fault' and it was part of the Guardian report i quoted in the OP. The only person trying to distort the truth and deploy bullshit and lies here is you. | |||
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"Ok we have 280,000 being cited on the forum by a prominent member, BBC news has just said "quarter of a million" (250,000) - so from now on unless someone has actually counted them individually then it's fake news! The BBC news website was quoting 280,000 last night when I posted the thread. I heard that it was 800 billion people, and that only 14 showed up for the people’s vote March. Of course this is a sarcastic comment to show how you blindly believe anything that suits your alt right beliefs and mercilessly Attack anything that’s pro-Europe or anti-fascist. You truly are deluded fella. If you think it's 'alt right' to want to leave the EU, and if you think it's 'alt right' to want to respect a democratic result to leave then you seriously need help. Labour MP Kate Hoey wants to leave the EU, do you think she's 'alt right'? LOL Also the 280,000 figure is still on the BBC news website, i even gave the link in an earlier post. I think your anger got the better of you. I didn’t say that. But seeing as your bring it up. The alt-right absolutely support leaving Europe. That’s completely correct. And no that doesn’t mean that all leavers are alt-right. I’m making fun of the way you defend the bbc numbers for a protest you support, when you’ve previously attacked the bbc for saying a certain number of people showed up to a protest in a London for a protest you don’t support. You’ll notice, I am not disputing the estimated number of protesters." I never attacked the BBC for the numbers who attended the People's Vote march, it was actually me and a few other Brexit supporters on here who went with the official BBC numbers. The only numbers i attacked over the People's Vote march were the numbers Unleashed Kraken posted as he was there, he added another couple hundred thousand on top of the numbers being reported on the news. It was Unleashed kraken's numbers that were attacked on here not the BBC's. | |||
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"see... this is why I detest sometimes people twisting a topic to suit a narrative.... the protest isn't in essence a macron protest... it is a anti-fuel price increase protest... the problem is that in france people use a much higher proportion of diesel cars than they do anywhere else in europe.... and the price of diesel had gone up by about a quarter in the last year..... they are paying on aver about £1.32 per litre (which funny enough is roughly what we are paying at the moment with so much tax going back to the treasury) where in britain what has happened is they have suspended the fuel esculator for the last 5-6 yrs, what happened in france is they have brought in a "clean fuels tax" which is suppose to promote renewable energy, but basically hits diesel hard (and actually to a lesser extent petrol) the Macron government raised its hydrocarbon tax this year by 7.6 cents per litre on diesel and 3.9 cents on petrol, as part of a campaign for cleaner cars and fuel and the decision to impose a further increase of 6.5 cents on diesel and 2.9 cents on petrol on 1 January 2019 was seen as the final straw. the price of diesel has gone up proportionately higher this year world wise, the taxes are the cherry on the cake so to speak so its not a general demo, it is a demo on THIS particular subject so if you want to have a convo on renewable taxes against fossel fuels, then have at it..... remember it is the UK government's position to give subsudies on Electric Cars and to eventually ban petrol/diesel cars by 2040..... that is why i hate the likes of centy who are so wrapped on hating one person, the actually conversation isn't the one we are having, he saw a headline without actually reading the story!!!!" FFS Fabio, a number of news sources are saying its as much a protest against Macron and his government as it is about fuel protests. It's not just the headlines either, the long quote i put in the OP from the Guardain, wasn't a headline, it was written in the Guardian report! | |||
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"So 10 % of 67 million is 6.7 million 10 % of 6.7 million is 670, 000 Half that its 335,000 280,000 you say ? So less than 1/2 a percent of the population of France is a Mass demonstration ? Not too dissimilar from the peoples vote march in London a few weeks ago then." The London and UK demonstrations were much larger. The French are accomplished demonstrators as the Guardian reading op highlights - I'm surprised there weren't higher volumes of people in France, if it has strong popular support | |||
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"see... this is why I detest sometimes people twisting a topic to suit a narrative.... the protest isn't in essence a macron protest... it is a anti-fuel price increase protest... the problem is that in france people use a much higher proportion of diesel cars than they do anywhere else in europe.... and the price of diesel had gone up by about a quarter in the last year..... they are paying on aver about £1.32 per litre (which funny enough is roughly what we are paying at the moment with so much tax going back to the treasury) where in britain what has happened is they have suspended the fuel esculator for the last 5-6 yrs, what happened in france is they have brought in a "clean fuels tax" which is suppose to promote renewable energy, but basically hits diesel hard (and actually to a lesser extent petrol) the Macron government raised its hydrocarbon tax this year by 7.6 cents per litre on diesel and 3.9 cents on petrol, as part of a campaign for cleaner cars and fuel and the decision to impose a further increase of 6.5 cents on diesel and 2.9 cents on petrol on 1 January 2019 was seen as the final straw. the price of diesel has gone up proportionately higher this year world wise, the taxes are the cherry on the cake so to speak so its not a general demo, it is a demo on THIS particular subject so if you want to have a convo on renewable taxes against fossel fuels, then have at it..... remember it is the UK government's position to give subsudies on Electric Cars and to eventually ban petrol/diesel cars by 2040..... that is why i hate the likes of centy who are so wrapped on hating one person, the actually conversation isn't the one we are having, he saw a headline without actually reading the story!!!! FFS Fabio, a number of news sources are saying its as much a protest against Macron and his government as it is about fuel protests. It's not just the headlines either, the long quote i put in the OP from the Guardain, wasn't a headline, it was written in the Guardian report!" It's a small number of extremist (right & left) who are protesting because of the price of diesel! One fact being world wholesale prices are up - why? Well the fact Trumps unilateral sanctions on Iran have not helped! The other is climate change - diesel is "dirty" and has pollution problems! So do we have cheaper diesel, and health problems, or do we have a healthier population, and more expensive diesel? The fact that Macron has introduced it is unpopular! You know a bit like brexit! | |||
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"So 10 % of 67 million is 6.7 million 10 % of 6.7 million is 670, 000 Half that its 335,000 280,000 you say ? So less than 1/2 a percent of the population of France is a Mass demonstration ? As with the fuel protests that happened in the UK under the Blair Labour government, the protesters had a lot of support from people who didn't physically go out to take part in the protests. The same can be said in France with these protests yesterday. Also you don't mention anything about Macron's domestic poll ratings which are very low. Maths wasn't your strong point at school! I shall in future be very sceptical about any figures which you quote! "If.you think my Math is wrong maybe you need to go back to School. | |||
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"so many lies Yes those who called it fake news were lying weren't they. no you're a liar for attempting to brand the protests as anti macron and that the police have killed a person and injured 100's more ... that clearly a deliberate lie on your part. hardly surprising though as the racist alt right extremist white supremacist movement deploy the 'distort the truth to fit thier extremist narrative' tactic far too often now and everyone sees through the bullshit and lies I think you need to go and have a lie down in a darkened room as you're clearly hallucinating. I have NOT said anywhere on the thread that the police killed a person, it says on the link i provided to the BBC how the person was killed (clue = it wasn't the police) so to say otherwise would be stupid. Did you actually bother to read the link to the BBC news website? As it states on the BBC link that it was as much a protest against Macron as it was against fuel price increases. If you do a Google search for 'French Fuel protests' you'll see its the lefts favourite newspaper The Guardian, which has gone with the Headline "Its Macron's fault' and it was part of the Guardian report i quoted in the OP. The only person trying to distort the truth and deploy bullshit and lies here is you." and now you place lies on top of lies .... you can try to back peddle as much as you like but the fact that you lied in your OP and now you are just trying to lie your way out of those lies is written there in black and white for all to see | |||
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"The French are protesting and blocking the motorways. I'm sorry but what's the news here? I remember getting stuck in one of these sort of protests back in the 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s. Macron is not even mid-term yet. He can do the unpopular stuff now and still have time to recover. I wouldn't right him off just yet." I think the OP is using this for evidence that the far right are on the rise again in France. I think you’re right though, these protests are common place there. | |||
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"So 10 % of 67 million is 6.7 million 10 % of 6.7 million is 670, 000 Half that its 335,000 280,000 you say ? So less than 1/2 a percent of the population of France is a Mass demonstration ? As with the fuel protests that happened in the UK under the Blair Labour government, the protesters had a lot of support from people who didn't physically go out to take part in the protests. The same can be said in France with these protests yesterday. Also you don't mention anything about Macron's domestic poll ratings which are very low. Maths wasn't your strong point at school! I shall in future be very sceptical about any figures which you quote!
If.you think my Math is wrong maybe you need to go back to School.
"No you are quite right I got the response wrong - sorry! | |||
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"So 10 % of 67 million is 6.7 million 10 % of 6.7 million is 670, 000 Half that its 335,000 280,000 you say ? So less than 1/2 a percent of the population of France is a Mass demonstration ? Not too dissimilar from the peoples vote march in London a few weeks ago then." See above then. Rhetoric spins both ways. | |||
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"The French are protesting and blocking the motorways. I'm sorry but what's the news here? I remember getting stuck in one of these sort of protests back in the 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s. Macron is not even mid-term yet. He can do the unpopular stuff now and still have time to recover. I wouldn't right him off just yet." The French have a good Union and protest movement. It makes government business hard, but keeps them grounded as a Swiss friend who lives near the border told me. | |||
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"Sadiq Kahn could have flogged his water cannons to Macron "Yes I wonder how much he would have got for them? A couple of baguettes and a bottle of vin ordinaries? Seriously though, I do wonder at Centy trying to make a protest into a revolution. I have friends in France who took part in the 68 student riots and they are nice normal people who exercise their constitutional right to protest regularly because they are patriotic and care about their country. Centys attempts to stir up shit and then denigrate anyone who calls him out on his lies are legendary on here. | |||
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"Sadiq Kahn could have flogged his water cannons to Macron "Ahem, cough cough.. Boris the buffoons water Canon thank you, like his stupid idea of the bridge a waste of money.. | |||
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"Sadiq Kahn could have flogged his water cannons to Macron "He could also have got more for them but sold them at as bigger loss as he could to cause maximum embarrassment  | |||
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"And so the anti Macron/fuel protests go on again this weekend. 2 people now killed and as protesters clashed with police using tear gas and water cannons in Paris another 24 people were injured. Macron's approval rating in France is now as low as 21%, while a poll in France showed 73% of people supported the protests. " That was pretty much our experience while driving up through France last week. Nearly every car on the motorway had a yellow vest on the dashboard. Including ours. | |||
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"see... this is why I detest sometimes people twisting a topic to suit a narrative.... the protest isn't in essence a macron protest... it is a anti-fuel price increase protest... the problem is that in france people use a much higher proportion of diesel cars than they do anywhere else in europe.... and the price of diesel had gone up by about a quarter in the last year..... they are paying on aver about £1.32 per litre (which funny enough is roughly what we are paying at the moment with so much tax going back to the treasury) where in britain what has happened is they have suspended the fuel esculator for the last 5-6 yrs, what happened in france is they have brought in a "clean fuels tax" which is suppose to promote renewable energy, but basically hits diesel hard (and actually to a lesser extent petrol) the Macron government raised its hydrocarbon tax this year by 7.6 cents per litre on diesel and 3.9 cents on petrol, as part of a campaign for cleaner cars and fuel and the decision to impose a further increase of 6.5 cents on diesel and 2.9 cents on petrol on 1 January 2019 was seen as the final straw. the price of diesel has gone up proportionately higher this year world wise, the taxes are the cherry on the cake so to speak so its not a general demo, it is a demo on THIS particular subject so if you want to have a convo on renewable taxes against fossel fuels, then have at it..... remember it is the UK government's position to give subsudies on Electric Cars and to eventually ban petrol/diesel cars by 2040..... that is why i hate the likes of centy who are so wrapped on hating one person, the actually conversation isn't the one we are having, he saw a headline without actually reading the story!!!! FFS Fabio, a number of news sources are saying its as much a protest against Macron and his government as it is about fuel protests. It's not just the headlines either, the long quote i put in the OP from the Guardain, wasn't a headline, it was written in the Guardian report! It's a small number of extremist (right & left) who are protesting because of the price of diesel! One fact being world wholesale prices are up - why? Well the fact Trumps unilateral sanctions on Iran have not helped! The other is climate change - diesel is "dirty" and has pollution problems! So do we have cheaper diesel, and health problems, or do we have a healthier population, and more expensive diesel? The fact that Macron has introduced it is unpopular! You know a bit like brexit!" Said it before, I'll say it again, until there is a viable, easily usable and reasonably priced alternative to using petrol/diesel then the problem will persist. Electric cars & Hybrids take more energy to build and produce more pollutants during their construction than a 'standard' car and the replacement batteries are a nightmare in both production and at the end of their lifespan. Electric cars may work in a city, but try driving from Calais to Marseille and see how many days if not weeks it will take you! Plus electric cars just move the problem up the line - where's the electricity going to come from?? (France would have to DOUBLE its grid output if everyone went electric) Nearly every damn vehicle on the road is diesel and so are some of the trains. Throw in farm machinery, fishing boats et al and you can see why people are pi**ed off with the huge increases in price, which, of course, gets passed on by the hauliers thus making everything that's delivered by road more expensive The protests started, and to a greater part, remain un-political which is the main problem for the French government - no unions to negotiate with. Unfortunately, there are a small group who are using it to cause trouble and make political issues out of it. The media have just cherry picked at these items to portrait an image which does not reflect the truth of the situation It does help to actually live in the country where the 'issues' are before making assumptions on news items that do not reflect the whole situation | |||
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"I thought it was his mum x" There is nothing wrong with having a minor oedipal complex.... | |||
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"Mass demonstrations, and civil unrest broke out in France yesterday in protest at Emmanuel Macron and his government. The BBC reports up to 280,000 people demonstrated at up to 2000 different protest sites across the country. Roads, roundabouts and junctions were blocked by people unhappy with Macron's fuel tax rises. The Guardian writes "The scale of spontaneous popular revolt revealed an unexpected level of public discontent with President Macron, accused of being out of touch with the problems of ordinary people. Although sparked by higher fuel price's the protests revealed a wider crisis of confidence in the centrist government". Macron's domestic poll ratings are much lower than his predecessor Hollande's. The protests have left one woman dead and upto 106 people injured (7 seriously) as riot police clashed with protesters, according to sky news sources. Is the writing on the wall already for Macron in France and is he finished as President? What do you think his chances are of being re elected? " 280,000 French diesel price protestors imply the downfall of Macron? It's possible. Revolutions start on all sorts of ways. However why is this number significant if 700,000 protesters in London are a fringe group who's opinions should be involved? If there was violence in London would you consider the protest more worthy of a government response? Do you "respect" violent protest more? Does it indicate greater "strength" and less "moaning"? | |||
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"Sadiq Kahn could have flogged his water cannons to Macron
Ahem, cough cough..
Boris the buffoons water Canon thank you, like his stupid idea of the bridge a waste of money.. "Sadiq Kahn obviously had the final say on them otherwise he wouldn't have been able to sell them so he inherited them. | |||
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"Sadiq Kahn could have flogged his water cannons to Macron
Ahem, cough cough..
Boris the buffoons water Canon thank you, like his stupid idea of the bridge a waste of money..
Sadiq Kahn obviously had the final say on them otherwise he wouldn't have been able to sell them so he inherited them."Pity he couldn't have washed the unwashed from the bridges in London over the last week with them before selling them | |||
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"Sadiq Kahn could have flogged his water cannons to Macron
Ahem, cough cough..
Boris the buffoons water Canon thank you, like his stupid idea of the bridge a waste of money..
Sadiq Kahn obviously had the final say on them otherwise he wouldn't have been able to sell them so he inherited them.
Pity he couldn't have washed the unwashed from the bridges in London over the last week with them before selling them "That's a nice thought... NOT. | |||
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"see... this is why I detest sometimes people twisting a topic to suit a narrative.... the protest isn't in essence a macron protest... it is a anti-fuel price increase protest... the problem is that in france people use a much higher proportion of diesel cars than they do anywhere else in europe.... and the price of diesel had gone up by about a quarter in the last year..... they are paying on aver about £1.32 per litre (which funny enough is roughly what we are paying at the moment with so much tax going back to the treasury) where in britain what has happened is they have suspended the fuel esculator for the last 5-6 yrs, what happened in france is they have brought in a "clean fuels tax" which is suppose to promote renewable energy, but basically hits diesel hard (and actually to a lesser extent petrol) the Macron government raised its hydrocarbon tax this year by 7.6 cents per litre on diesel and 3.9 cents on petrol, as part of a campaign for cleaner cars and fuel and the decision to impose a further increase of 6.5 cents on diesel and 2.9 cents on petrol on 1 January 2019 was seen as the final straw. the price of diesel has gone up proportionately higher this year world wise, the taxes are the cherry on the cake so to speak so its not a general demo, it is a demo on THIS particular subject so if you want to have a convo on renewable taxes against fossel fuels, then have at it..... remember it is the UK government's position to give subsudies on Electric Cars and to eventually ban petrol/diesel cars by 2040..... that is why i hate the likes of centy who are so wrapped on hating one person, the actually conversation isn't the one we are having, he saw a headline without actually reading the story!!!! FFS Fabio, a number of news sources are saying its as much a protest against Macron and his government as it is about fuel protests. It's not just the headlines either, the long quote i put in the OP from the Guardain, wasn't a headline, it was written in the Guardian report! It's a small number of extremist (right & left) who are protesting because of the price of diesel! One fact being world wholesale prices are up - why? Well the fact Trumps unilateral sanctions on Iran have not helped! The other is climate change - diesel is "dirty" and has pollution problems! So do we have cheaper diesel, and health problems, or do we have a healthier population, and more expensive diesel? The fact that Macron has introduced it is unpopular! You know a bit like brexit! Said it before, I'll say it again, until there is a viable, easily usable and reasonably priced alternative to using petrol/diesel then the problem will persist. Electric cars & Hybrids take more energy to build and produce more pollutants during their construction than a 'standard' car and the replacement batteries are a nightmare in both production and at the end of their lifespan. Electric cars may work in a city, but try driving from Calais to Marseille and see how many days if not weeks it will take you! Plus electric cars just move the problem up the line - where's the electricity going to come from?? (France would have to DOUBLE its grid output if everyone went electric) Nearly every damn vehicle on the road is diesel and so are some of the trains. Throw in farm machinery, fishing boats et al and you can see why people are pi**ed off with the huge increases in price, which, of course, gets passed on by the hauliers thus making everything that's delivered by road more expensive The protests started, and to a greater part, remain un-political which is the main problem for the French government - no unions to negotiate with. Unfortunately, there are a small group who are using it to cause trouble and make political issues out of it. The media have just cherry picked at these items to portrait an image which does not reflect the truth of the situation It does help to actually live in the country where the 'issues' are before making assumptions on news items that do not reflect the whole situation" Good post and we fully agree. | |||
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"see... this is why I detest sometimes people twisting a topic to suit a narrative.... the protest isn't in essence a macron protest... it is a anti-fuel price increase protest... the problem is that in france people use a much higher proportion of diesel cars than they do anywhere else in europe.... and the price of diesel had gone up by about a quarter in the last year..... they are paying on aver about £1.32 per litre (which funny enough is roughly what we are paying at the moment with so much tax going back to the treasury) where in britain what has happened is they have suspended the fuel esculator for the last 5-6 yrs, what happened in france is they have brought in a "clean fuels tax" which is suppose to promote renewable energy, but basically hits diesel hard (and actually to a lesser extent petrol) the Macron government raised its hydrocarbon tax this year by 7.6 cents per litre on diesel and 3.9 cents on petrol, as part of a campaign for cleaner cars and fuel and the decision to impose a further increase of 6.5 cents on diesel and 2.9 cents on petrol on 1 January 2019 was seen as the final straw. the price of diesel has gone up proportionately higher this year world wise, the taxes are the cherry on the cake so to speak so its not a general demo, it is a demo on THIS particular subject so if you want to have a convo on renewable taxes against fossel fuels, then have at it..... remember it is the UK government's position to give subsudies on Electric Cars and to eventually ban petrol/diesel cars by 2040..... that is why i hate the likes of centy who are so wrapped on hating one person, the actually conversation isn't the one we are having, he saw a headline without actually reading the story!!!! FFS Fabio, a number of news sources are saying its as much a protest against Macron and his government as it is about fuel protests. It's not just the headlines either, the long quote i put in the OP from the Guardain, wasn't a headline, it was written in the Guardian report! It's a small number of extremist (right & left) who are protesting because of the price of diesel! One fact being world wholesale prices are up - why? Well the fact Trumps unilateral sanctions on Iran have not helped! The other is climate change - diesel is "dirty" and has pollution problems! So do we have cheaper diesel, and health problems, or do we have a healthier population, and more expensive diesel? The fact that Macron has introduced it is unpopular! You know a bit like brexit!" Of course diesel is dirty. We live in a dirty world. It's all well and good to have high and mighty principles but what is the alternative? As as been posted above, electric is fine in principle but in the real world it just isn't viable with current technology and infrastructure. Not only would the the generating capacity have to double but has anyone thought (ok sorry greeny's tend not to think much) how people would actually charge the bloody things. Not everyone lives in a detached house with a driveway where they can have a charging point fitted. What about people who live in blocks of flats? Where would they plug in their super green (said with tongue in cheek) electric planet savers? There would be that many cables every street would look like an explosion in a spaghetti factory. Add to all that the cost of purchase, reliability issues, and (as they get older) cost of repairs, then electric just isn't viable. Like it or not, for the time being diesel and petrol are here to stay and posturing politicians will pay a heavy price if they try to tax them off the road too early. Now where did I tie up my donkey? | |||
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"in the 1930s/1940s only the rich people owned cars ....by the 2050s are we heading back in the same direction ???" I think by that time we will be moving in other directions of transportation | |||
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"in the 1930s/1940s only the rich people owned cars ....by the 2050s are we heading back in the same direction ???" It's not beyond the realms of possibility. Though the irony is that it will be left wing politics that take us there.  | |||
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"in the 1930s/1940s only the rich people owned cars ....by the 2050s are we heading back in the same direction ??? I think by that time we will be moving in other directions of transportation " Yep. I'm thinking of buying some shares in a startup horse and cart company. Oh wait a minute. The greeny's will probably want to ban horses because of the methane they produce. | |||
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"in the 1930s/1940s only the rich people owned cars ....by the 2050s are we heading back in the same direction ??? I think by that time we will be moving in other directions of transportation Yep. I'm thinking of buying some shares in a startup horse and cart company. Oh wait a minute. The greeny's will probably want to ban horses because of the methane they produce." I think cars will have hydrogen fuel cells and not run on Fossil fuels | |||
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"in the 1930s/1940s only the rich people owned cars ....by the 2050s are we heading back in the same direction ??? I think by that time we will be moving in other directions of transportation Yep. I'm thinking of buying some shares in a startup horse and cart company. Oh wait a minute. The greeny's will probably want to ban horses because of the methane they produce. I think cars will have hydrogen fuel cells and not run on Fossil fuels " Actually that really is the future. Only problem is that the technology is very much in its infancy. It is going to take a good few years, if not decades, before it is up to scratch, but come it will. However what we don't need right now are posturing politicians trying to make a name for themselves by trying to kick us back into the stone age. If anyone's interested I've got a couple of Fred Flintstone cars going cheap. | |||
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"in the 1930s/1940s only the rich people owned cars ....by the 2050s are we heading back in the same direction ??? I think by that time we will be moving in other directions of transportation Yep. I'm thinking of buying some shares in a startup horse and cart company. Oh wait a minute. The greeny's will probably want to ban horses because of the methane they produce. I think cars will have hydrogen fuel cells and not run on Fossil fuels Actually that really is the future. Only problem is that the technology is very much in its infancy. It is going to take a good few years, if not decades, before it is up to scratch, but come it will. However what we don't need right now are posturing politicians trying to make a name for themselves by trying to kick us back into the stone age. If anyone's interested I've got a couple of Fred Flintstone cars going cheap. "Pollution in cities regardless of greenhouse emissions are what are driving the legislation. Particularly in China. Large cities are already forcing the change purely on health grounds not "greenys". Scale will reduce cost. You are also assuming people will want to own their cars. The younger generation is progressively indifferent. Uber and soon autonomous driving are going to completely change the model with small efficient range extender engines to charge electric vehicles for remote operation. You are thinking with 20th century head. No reason that you shouldn't but perhaps don't shout down the possibilities? | |||
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"in the 1930s/1940s only the rich people owned cars ....by the 2050s are we heading back in the same direction ??? I think by that time we will be moving in other directions of transportation Yep. I'm thinking of buying some shares in a startup horse and cart company. Oh wait a minute. The greeny's will probably want to ban horses because of the methane they produce. I think cars will have hydrogen fuel cells and not run on Fossil fuels Actually that really is the future. Only problem is that the technology is very much in its infancy. It is going to take a good few years, if not decades, before it is up to scratch, but come it will. However what we don't need right now are posturing politicians trying to make a name for themselves by trying to kick us back into the stone age. If anyone's interested I've got a couple of Fred Flintstone cars going cheap.
Pollution in cities regardless of greenhouse emissions are what are driving the legislation. Particularly in China.
Large cities are already forcing the change purely on health grounds not "greenys".
Scale will reduce cost.
You are also assuming people will want to own their cars. The younger generation is progressively indifferent. Uber and soon autonomous driving are going to completely change the model with small efficient range extender engines to charge electric vehicles for remote operation.
You are thinking with 20th century head. No reason that you shouldn't but perhaps don't shout down the possibilities?"Of course the possibilities are huge and in the next decades there will be massive changes in transportation. However the future is exactly that, the future. The present is now and we really don't need politicians using the blunt instrument of tax (which seems to always be their only answer to every problem) to force us into something that could be a couple of decades away. We are only 18 years into the 21st century (another 92 to go) and most established motor technology is still from the 20th century, so until the new stuff gets up to speed I'll carry on thinking with my tried and tested 20th century head. As my grandmother used to say "learn to walk before you try to run" | |||
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"I would just add to the above. It is great to say what wonderful technology will come in the future but no-one has come up with a viable solution for NOW. We drive twice a year from Germany to Spain and back. At the moment I can fill up with diesel in Luxembourg and get all the way into Spain without having to top up. How many times would I have to stop (for hours not minutes) to re-charge a current technology electric car? They might be OK for the school run and popping to the shops but for anything else they are useless." And therein lay the problem, electrical vehicle technology works ok (ish) with small vehicles Apart from a few post office vans and other lightweight local delivery services that use electric vehicles, every other item is delivered by a truck/van that has a diesel engine in it. So, if, in theory, you change every HGV to electric, how much of the weight will be taken with batteries and how many of the bloody things will you need?? All electric vehicles need to be as light as possible to offset the weight of the batteries We watched a France 24 news programme concerning the destruction of part of a rain forest to make plains of salt from which they extract the lithium used in batteries - apparently, South America is the main exporter in the world... So, to make non-polluting electric cars, you need to make twice the number of power stations (renewables are not efficient enough) dig up rain forest, make more plastics and use more power to smelt the aluminium to make a small car that can you can only drive 200kms before spending 8 hours recharging it. Hydrogen is possibly the answer, its the most common gas in the universe so shouldn't run out any time soon, however, the 'waste' product of a hydrogen engine is water - how many cars and how much water?? We are told that the planet will get wetter (in general) as more ice melts as the globe warms so will this new wonder fuel add to the problem?? Just one other little known published fact that I came across. Just over 100 years ago, the volcanic island of Krakatoa exploded, creating the loudest bang ever being heard 3000 miles away It deposited enough ash into the atmosphere to raise global temps by an average of.... 3'C Strangely, about 100 years ago was when more standardised weather reporting and recording was started. I'm not saying that mankind isn't having an effect on the climate of this planet and we dont need to clean our act up, but..... when one volcanic eruption can have that much effect, it makes you wonder. When governments actually use these ever increasing 'green' taxes to invest in the alternatives, I'll take some notice, but when all they do with it is fill the coffers up, I'll carry on protesting. A little food for thought perhaps! | |||
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"Yes the earth is a right bastard isn’t it....exploding when we don’t want it to and scuppering our plans by going all warm wet and windy on us Personally I’m looking forward to the Yellowstone eruption to see the look on emperor trumps face " That could be sooner than you think. Historically it is well overdue and I watched something a few months ago about the readings taken from the sensors there. Apparently the magma is rising. If (when) it does go off it's expected to take most of the American western seaboard with it. It will be a global event so Trumps face would be the least of our worries. | |||
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"I would just add to the above. It is great to say what wonderful technology will come in the future but no-one has come up with a viable solution for NOW. We drive twice a year from Germany to Spain and back. At the moment I can fill up with diesel in Luxembourg and get all the way into Spain without having to top up. How many times would I have to stop (for hours not minutes) to re-charge a current technology electric car? They might be OK for the school run and popping to the shops but for anything else they are useless. And therein lay the problem, electrical vehicle technology works ok (ish) with small vehicles Apart from a few post office vans and other lightweight local delivery services that use electric vehicles, every other item is delivered by a truck/van that has a diesel engine in it. So, if, in theory, you change every HGV to electric, how much of the weight will be taken with batteries and how many of the bloody things will you need?? All electric vehicles need to be as light as possible to offset the weight of the batteries We watched a France 24 news programme concerning the destruction of part of a rain forest to make plains of salt from which they extract the lithium used in batteries - apparently, South America is the main exporter in the world... So, to make non-polluting electric cars, you need to make twice the number of power stations (renewables are not efficient enough) dig up rain forest, make more plastics and use more power to smelt the aluminium to make a small car that can you can only drive 200kms before spending 8 hours recharging it. Hydrogen is possibly the answer, its the most common gas in the universe so shouldn't run out any time soon, however, the 'waste' product of a hydrogen engine is water - how many cars and how much water?? We are told that the planet will get wetter (in general) as more ice melts as the globe warms so will this new wonder fuel add to the problem?? Just one other little known published fact that I came across. Just over 100 years ago, the volcanic island of Krakatoa exploded, creating the loudest bang ever being heard 3000 miles away It deposited enough ash into the atmosphere to raise global temps by an average of.... 3'C Strangely, about 100 years ago was when more standardised weather reporting and recording was started. I'm not saying that mankind isn't having an effect on the climate of this planet and we dont need to clean our act up, but..... when one volcanic eruption can have that much effect, it makes you wonder. When governments actually use these ever increasing 'green' taxes to invest in the alternatives, I'll take some notice, but when all they do with it is fill the coffers up, I'll carry on protesting. A little food for thought perhaps!" Again, a very good post. | |||
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"The protests are about fuel prices. Here's how the death happened before the alt right start making shit up.. Chantal Mazet, 63, was killed in the south-eastern Savoy region when a driver who was taking her daughter to hospital panicked at being blocked by about 50 demonstrators, who were striking the roof of her vehicle, and drove into them." If the protests are about fuel prices (a socialist issue)...what does it have to do with the alt right? #confused | |||
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"The protests are about fuel prices. Here's how the death happened before the alt right start making shit up.. Chantal Mazet, 63, was killed in the south-eastern Savoy region when a driver who was taking her daughter to hospital panicked at being blocked by about 50 demonstrators, who were striking the roof of her vehicle, and drove into them. If the protests are about fuel prices (a socialist issue)...what does it have to do with the alt right? #confused " The alt right wish to see the collapse of macron they've used these protests to make it about macron .This month Marie le pen is doing rather well in the polls overtaking macron.She's about as far right as it gets before you start building gas chambers and fall off the edge. | |||
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"The protests are about fuel prices. Here's how the death happened before the alt right start making shit up.. Chantal Mazet, 63, was killed in the south-eastern Savoy region when a driver who was taking her daughter to hospital panicked at being blocked by about 50 demonstrators, who were striking the roof of her vehicle, and drove into them. If the protests are about fuel prices (a socialist issue)...what does it have to do with the alt right? #confused " Did you not know that everything is the fault of the alt right or Brexit, or both? If storm whatisname blows your roof off tomorrow you know who/what to blame. | |||
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"The protests are about fuel prices. Here's how the death happened before the alt right start making shit up.. Chantal Mazet, 63, was killed in the south-eastern Savoy region when a driver who was taking her daughter to hospital panicked at being blocked by about 50 demonstrators, who were striking the roof of her vehicle, and drove into them. If the protests are about fuel prices (a socialist issue)...what does it have to do with the alt right? #confused " As I stated earlier, the main part of the protest is being made by ordinary folk, unfortunately a minority are seizing on the moment to make a political statements whilst an even smaller amount are using it as an excuse to get violent (see the centre of Paris for further details), not perhaps too far removed from those 'football supporters' who are more interested in the chance for a brawl rather than the actual game. From what has been covered on the news on this side of the channel, the woman in question had already panicked and was actually driving at the protesters refusing to stop. The protesters reacted by hitting the roof of the car so she accelerated unfortunately hitting and killing an elderly woman. She has been charged with manslaughter. From the news footage that I have seen, there may have been 50 protesters there, but only about 15 attacked the car as she used it as a battering ram. A bad situation created by both parties, they shouldn't have stood in the middle of the road, she shouldn't have accelerated. Naff all to do with 'atl rights', lefts, commies, fascists, exiters, remainers, KKK, meat eaters, vegans or any one else, just very bad decisions made. There is a difference between the actual 'News' ("A train was derailed this morning, two persons were slightly injured - fact) and the inevitable 'expert' who is called in to make the whole item more newsworthy ("The reason the train was derailed was because the government has reduced spending, the whole rail network is now in a dangerous state - opinion) The trick is trying to differentiate between the two. | |||
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"The protests are about fuel prices. Here's how the death happened before the alt right start making shit up.. Chantal Mazet, 63, was killed in the south-eastern Savoy region when a driver who was taking her daughter to hospital panicked at being blocked by about 50 demonstrators, who were striking the roof of her vehicle, and drove into them. If the protests are about fuel prices (a socialist issue)...what does it have to do with the alt right? #confused The alt right wish to see the collapse of macron they've used these protests to make it about macron .This month Marie le pen is doing rather well in the polls overtaking macron.She's about as far right as it gets before you start building gas chambers and fall off the edge. "Yeah I know. Sending your security man to a demo to beat up anti Macron protesters is getting very close. Ernst Rohm would be proud of him. | |||
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"The protests are about fuel prices. Here's how the death happened before the alt right start making shit up.. Chantal Mazet, 63, was killed in the south-eastern Savoy region when a driver who was taking her daughter to hospital panicked at being blocked by about 50 demonstrators, who were striking the roof of her vehicle, and drove into them. If the protests are about fuel prices (a socialist issue)...what does it have to do with the alt right? #confused The alt right wish to see the collapse of macron they've used these protests to make it about macron .This month Marie le pen is doing rather well in the polls overtaking macron.She's about as far right as it gets before you start building gas chambers and fall off the edge. "Do you think the far left Melenchon in France has joined the alt right then? Melenchon has come out in support of the protesters and has leveled criticism at Macron for his increased fuel taxes. | |||
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"The protests are about fuel prices. Here's how the death happened before the alt right start making shit up.. Chantal Mazet, 63, was killed in the south-eastern Savoy region when a driver who was taking her daughter to hospital panicked at being blocked by about 50 demonstrators, who were striking the roof of her vehicle, and drove into them. If the protests are about fuel prices (a socialist issue)...what does it have to do with the alt right? #confused The alt right wish to see the collapse of macron they've used these protests to make it about macron .This month Marie le pen is doing rather well in the polls overtaking macron.She's about as far right as it gets before you start building gas chambers and fall off the edge.
Yeah I know. Sending your security man to a demo to beat up anti Macron protesters is getting very close.
Ernst Rohm would be proud of him. "Says the guy who gets wet knickers over every far right Party that rises in Europe... | |||
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" For the climate change deniers . Our man made carbon has a separate isotopic finger print to carbon released by Mother Earth. 3 types of Co2 for the wilfully ignorant to go google now. Just sayin ... "Never denied the climate was changing, never said that we don't need to clean our act up, so from that I would not class myself as being wilfully ignorant. The source of the Co2 is immaterial, the effect upon the atmosphere is pretty much the same. (I managed to find that out in a thing called a book) What I am saying is that pretty much all of the 'solutions' that we are being told (sold) about could, and in some cases are, creating even more problems than they are alleged to solve. (try googling lithium production) The complaint is that all of the green taxation, congestion charges, fuel price hikes are not being used to offer a viable alternative to the internal combustion engine, just to line the pockets of the governments, the governments who keep offering knee-jerk short term ill thought out solutions. And no, I don't have the answer, if I did, I daresay I'd be a lot richer than I am | |||
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" For the climate change deniers . Our man made carbon has a separate isotopic finger print to carbon released by Mother Earth. 3 types of Co2 for the wilfully ignorant to go google now. Just sayin ...
Never denied the climate was changing, never said that we don't need to clean our act up, so from that I would not class myself as being wilfully ignorant. The source of the Co2 is immaterial, the effect upon the atmosphere is pretty much the same. (I managed to find that out in a thing called a book)
What I am saying is that pretty much all of the 'solutions' that we are being told (sold) about could, and in some cases are, creating even more problems than they are alleged to solve. (try googling lithium production)
The complaint is that all of the green taxation, congestion charges, fuel price hikes are not being used to offer a viable alternative to the internal combustion engine, just to line the pockets of the governments, the governments who keep offering knee-jerk short term ill thought out solutions.
And no, I don't have the answer, if I did, I daresay I'd be a lot richer than I am
"So you are offering nothing as an alternative.Well that's going to help.. Are suggesting burning fossil fuels is better than renewables.Really .....In which book did you read that?? So should we carry on regardless until cold fusion is a reality .Or hydrogen fuel cells are cheap as chips. Its a time sensitive problem we don't and have to the end of century to make up our minds. | |||
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"Yes the earth is a right bastard isn’t it....exploding when we don’t want it to and scuppering our plans by going all warm wet and windy on us Personally I’m looking forward to the Yellowstone eruption to see the look on emperor trumps face " . It made it colder through the deposit of billions of tonnes of fine ash into the stratosphere blocking out sunlight. In Europe it was known as the year without a summer. yellow stone would wipe out billions of people, it seems a strange think to wish for just for your hatred of trump. | |||
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"Yes the earth is a right bastard isn’t it....exploding when we don’t want it to and scuppering our plans by going all warm wet and windy on us Personally I’m looking forward to the Yellowstone eruption to see the look on emperor trumps face . It made it colder through the deposit of billions of tonnes of fine ash into the stratosphere blocking out sunlight. In Europe it was known as the year without a summer. yellow stone would wipe out billions of people, it seems a strange think to wish for just for your hatred of trump. "Yep, my bad.. 3'c cooler!! Don't know how long that lasted, but I wonder if it was taken into consideration when the global temperature averages were taken? I expect the last Ice Age meltdown was blamed on too many BBQ's.. mind you, it takes a bit of wood to cook a wooly mamouth! | |||
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"Yes the earth is a right bastard isn’t it....exploding when we don’t want it to and scuppering our plans by going all warm wet and windy on us Personally I’m looking forward to the Yellowstone eruption to see the look on emperor trumps face . It made it colder through the deposit of billions of tonnes of fine ash into the stratosphere blocking out sunlight. In Europe it was known as the year without a summer. yellow stone would wipe out billions of people, it seems a strange think to wish for just for your hatred of trump. "Yep you’re right I shouldn’t be so flippant about the leader of the free world....or should I? Anyway, having been on the receiving end of a couple of quakes while in California and seen what a river of lava can do to homes and infrastructure in Hawaii I do understand that there are things that we are unable to prepare for or cope with as a human race and the effect of Yellowstone blowing would be felt around the world. Although I was jesting my point is that we either rightly try and mitigate our effects on the natural world or we say fuck it all and do what we like and hang the consequences. I suppose my point is that really the choice comes down to whether you are solely concerned with your own four score or whether you are thinking of future generations but thanks for replying Signor Alberto | |||
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"The protests are about fuel prices. Here's how the death happened before the alt right start making shit up.. Chantal Mazet, 63, was killed in the south-eastern Savoy region when a driver who was taking her daughter to hospital panicked at being blocked by about 50 demonstrators, who were striking the roof of her vehicle, and drove into them. If the protests are about fuel prices (a socialist issue)...what does it have to do with the alt right? #confused As I stated earlier, the main part of the protest is being made by ordinary folk, unfortunately a minority are seizing on the moment to make a political statements whilst an even smaller amount are using it as an excuse to get violent (see the centre of Paris for further details), not perhaps too far removed from those 'football supporters' who are more interested in the chance for a brawl rather than the actual game. From what has been covered on the news on this side of the channel, the woman in question had already panicked and was actually driving at the protesters refusing to stop. The protesters reacted by hitting the roof of the car so she accelerated unfortunately hitting and killing an elderly woman. She has been charged with manslaughter. From the news footage that I have seen, there may have been 50 protesters there, but only about 15 attacked the car as she used it as a battering ram. A bad situation created by both parties, they shouldn't have stood in the middle of the road, she shouldn't have accelerated. Naff all to do with 'atl rights', lefts, commies, fascists, exiters, remainers, KKK, meat eaters, vegans or any one else, just very bad decisions made. There is a difference between the actual 'News' ("A train was derailed this morning, two persons were slightly injured - fact) and the inevitable 'expert' who is called in to make the whole item more newsworthy ("The reason the train was derailed was because the government has reduced spending, the whole rail network is now in a dangerous state - opinion) The trick is trying to differentiate between the two. " So in other words it's all a load of bollox and shows how stupidly tribal all you stupid humans are becoming. Turn off the news, be happy | |||
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"You'll have to give up the meat or stop voting for cunts without solutions..Your choice . I think bacon will win with the support of gammon... "That’s going on my little black book of Aposite and Witty responses | |||
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"The protests are about fuel prices. Here's how the death happened before the alt right start making shit up.. Chantal Mazet, 63, was killed in the south-eastern Savoy region when a driver who was taking her daughter to hospital panicked at being blocked by about 50 demonstrators, who were striking the roof of her vehicle, and drove into them. If the protests are about fuel prices (a socialist issue)...what does it have to do with the alt right? #confused The alt right wish to see the collapse of macron they've used these protests to make it about macron .This month Marie le pen is doing rather well in the polls overtaking macron.She's about as far right as it gets before you start building gas chambers and fall off the edge.
Yeah I know. Sending your security man to a demo to beat up anti Macron protesters is getting very close.
Ernst Rohm would be proud of him.
Says the guy who gets wet knickers over every far right Party that rises in Europe..."Really!!? I'd love to see you evidence for that. Or is it that anyone who isn't a card carrying member of the fascist left Corbynista fan club is far right by default? | |||
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"The protests are about fuel prices. Here's how the death happened before the alt right start making shit up.. Chantal Mazet, 63, was killed in the south-eastern Savoy region when a driver who was taking her daughter to hospital panicked at being blocked by about 50 demonstrators, who were striking the roof of her vehicle, and drove into them. If the protests are about fuel prices (a socialist issue)...what does it have to do with the alt right? #confused The alt right wish to see the collapse of macron they've used these protests to make it about macron .This month Marie le pen is doing rather well in the polls overtaking macron.She's about as far right as it gets before you start building gas chambers and fall off the edge.
Yeah I know. Sending your security man to a demo to beat up anti Macron protesters is getting very close.
Ernst Rohm would be proud of him.
Says the guy who gets wet knickers over every far right Party that rises in Europe...
Really!!? I'd love to see you evidence for that.
Or is it that anyone who isn't a card carrying member of the fascist left Corbynista fan club is far right by default? "AFD fan boys don't go unnoticed.Feel free to deny it all you like ... .You now your my fav alt reich grandpa in here... | |||
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"The protests are about fuel prices. Here's how the death happened before the alt right start making shit up.. Chantal Mazet, 63, was killed in the south-eastern Savoy region when a driver who was taking her daughter to hospital panicked at being blocked by about 50 demonstrators, who were striking the roof of her vehicle, and drove into them. If the protests are about fuel prices (a socialist issue)...what does it have to do with the alt right? #confused The alt right wish to see the collapse of macron they've used these protests to make it about macron .This month Marie le pen is doing rather well in the polls overtaking macron.She's about as far right as it gets before you start building gas chambers and fall off the edge.
Yeah I know. Sending your security man to a demo to beat up anti Macron protesters is getting very close.
Ernst Rohm would be proud of him.
Says the guy who gets wet knickers over every far right Party that rises in Europe...
Really!!? I'd love to see you evidence for that.
Or is it that anyone who isn't a card carrying member of the fascist left Corbynista fan club is far right by default?
AFD fan boys don't go unnoticed.Feel free to deny it all you like ...
.You now your my fav alt reich grandpa in here... "AFD Fan? Nah not really a fan but they are OK. Come on, anyone who can give Merkel a slap in the polls can't be all bad. Oh and lets face it, even the darling of the liberal left (Saint Hilary herself) has just come out and said "Europe must get a handle on immigration before its too late" Maybe AFD are the ones who had the foresight. | |||
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"Which bit of the far right alternative for Deutschland isn't" Alt right" .They even put it in their name .. "Once again Bob maybe you missed the bit about the far left leader in France Melenchon supporting the protesters and also leveling criticism at little Napoleon Macron. | |||
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"Which bit of the far right alternative for Deutschland isn't" Alt right" .They even put it in their name ..
Once again Bob maybe you missed the bit about the far left leader in France Melenchon supporting the protesters and also leveling criticism at little Napoleon Macron. "Bob misses everything that isn't "alt left" or picks up on everything he perceives to be "alt right" | |||
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"The protests are about fuel prices. Here's how the death happened before the alt right start making shit up.. Chantal Mazet, 63, was killed in the south-eastern Savoy region when a driver who was taking her daughter to hospital panicked at being blocked by about 50 demonstrators, who were striking the roof of her vehicle, and drove into them. If the protests are about fuel prices (a socialist issue)...what does it have to do with the alt right? #confused The alt right wish to see the collapse of macron they've used these protests to make it about macron .This month Marie le pen is doing rather well in the polls overtaking macron.She's about as far right as it gets before you start building gas chambers and fall off the edge.
Yeah I know. Sending your security man to a demo to beat up anti Macron protesters is getting very close.
Ernst Rohm would be proud of him.
Says the guy who gets wet knickers over every far right Party that rises in Europe...
Really!!? I'd love to see you evidence for that.
Or is it that anyone who isn't a card carrying member of the fascist left Corbynista fan club is far right by default? "Only in the same way that anyone who isn't a hard nosed BREXIT nationalist is a wishy-washy, leftist, liberal elitist, by default.
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"in the 1930s/1940s only the rich people owned cars ....by the 2050s are we heading back in the same direction ??? I think by that time we will be moving in other directions of transportation Yep. I'm thinking of buying some shares in a startup horse and cart company. Oh wait a minute. The greeny's will probably want to ban horses because of the methane they produce. I think cars will have hydrogen fuel cells and not run on Fossil fuels Actually that really is the future. Only problem is that the technology is very much in its infancy. It is going to take a good few years, if not decades, before it is up to scratch, but come it will. However what we don't need right now are posturing politicians trying to make a name for themselves by trying to kick us back into the stone age. If anyone's interested I've got a couple of Fred Flintstone cars going cheap.
Pollution in cities regardless of greenhouse emissions are what are driving the legislation. Particularly in China.
Large cities are already forcing the change purely on health grounds not "greenys".
Scale will reduce cost.
You are also assuming people will want to own their cars. The younger generation is progressively indifferent. Uber and soon autonomous driving are going to completely change the model with small efficient range extender engines to charge electric vehicles for remote operation.
You are thinking with 20th century head. No reason that you shouldn't but perhaps don't shout down the possibilities?
Of course the possibilities are huge and in the next decades there will be massive changes in transportation.
However the future is exactly that, the future.
The present is now and we really don't need politicians using the blunt instrument of tax (which seems to always be their only answer to every problem) to force us into something that could be a couple of decades away.
We are only 18 years into the 21st century (another 92 to go) and most established motor technology is still from the 20th century, so until the new stuff gets up to speed I'll carry on thinking with my tried and tested 20th century head.
As my grandmother used to say "learn to walk before you try to run" "When does "the future" start? Electric cars weren't even supposed to be being built at scale for another 20 years. The future seems to have arrived early. Tax and regulation are the most effective instruments that government does have. People are surprisingly resistant to education. Cigarettes. Sugar. Tax adds a surcharge for poisoning and climate change that the market does not account for. Regulations have been driving emissions controls on vehicles and aircraft for decades and have been driving aircraft noise levels down. VW, Mercedes and BMW are investing billions in electrification including charging infrastructure as is China as a nation. Current battery technology is not as clean as it should be, but this is driving a lot of research which is moving very fast. Power generation infrastructure will have to grow. China and India are investing in truly vast solar power capacity and nuclear power. We can't even commission one new nuclear power station in decades. Most people will continue with current technology. Nobody is telling us not to. We will just have to pay a more realistic amount for the damage it does. We are also paying for the pollution of generations. Lucky us picking up the bill. Perhaps you'd like to pass it on to the next in line with the associated increase that allowing the problem to deteriorate will bring? | |||
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"Mass demonstrations, and civil unrest broke out in France yesterday in protest at Emmanuel Macron and his government. The BBC reports up to 280,000 people demonstrated at up to 2000 different protest sites across the country. Roads, roundabouts and junctions were blocked by people unhappy with Macron's fuel tax rises. The Guardian writes "The scale of spontaneous popular revolt revealed an unexpected level of public discontent with President Macron, accused of being out of touch with the problems of ordinary people. Although sparked by higher fuel price's the protests revealed a wider crisis of confidence in the centrist government". Macron's domestic poll ratings are much lower than his predecessor Hollande's. The protests have left one woman dead and upto 106 people injured (7 seriously) as riot police clashed with protesters, according to sky news sources. Is the writing on the wall already for Macron in France and is he finished as President? What do you think his chances are of being re elected? " So, you still haven't answered? If 280,000 protesters mean the end of Macron, do 700,000 protesters mean the end of Brexit?  | |||
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"Well if they can do that ..why not put more effort into the alternatives to petrol/diesel...electric is no good ..." | |||
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"Well if they can do that ..why not put more effort into the alternatives to petrol/diesel...electric is no good ..." Electric is "no good"? That is certainly a decisive argument. I am convinced | |||
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"And so the anti Macron protests go on again this weekend in France, getting more and more support and gaining more momentum as the weeks go by. The yellow jackets say they will carry on every weekend until Macron reverses his fuel tax increases. It's not looking good for Macron. " Perhaps that's what should be done by remain campaigners until they get their way? Would that be acceptable and is this how democracy should work? | |||
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"And so the anti Macron protests go on again this weekend in France, getting more and more support and gaining more momentum as the weeks go by. The yellow jackets say they will carry on every weekend until Macron reverses his fuel tax increases. It's not looking good for Macron. Perhaps that's what should be done by remain campaigners until they get their way? Would that be acceptable and is this how democracy should work?" Thats a Silly comparison. If remain campaigners did that here you'd have leave supporters out on the streets fighting them in running battles. The yellow jackets in France have support across the board from the population and so there is no real 'opposition' to them. | |||
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"And so the anti Macron protests go on again this weekend in France, getting more and more support and gaining more momentum as the weeks go by. The yellow jackets say they will carry on every weekend until Macron reverses his fuel tax increases. It's not looking good for Macron. Perhaps that's what should be done by remain campaigners until they get their way? Would that be acceptable and is this how democracy should work? Thats a Silly comparison. If remain campaigners did that here you'd have leave supporters out on the streets fighting them in running battles. The yellow jackets in France have support across the board from the population and so there is no real 'opposition' to them." Where do you get your facts from? The yellow jackets do not have widespread support and are being condemned by all sides. The extremists are like all extremists - hell-bent on destruction and anarchy. | |||
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"Is this about Macaron or fuel prices? I’ve not read too much but it seems (on the face of it) the latter. " So you didn't see the anti Macron graffiti being sprayed on famous french landmarks in Paris on the news yesterday then? | |||
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"And so the anti Macron protests go on again this weekend in France, getting more and more support and gaining more momentum as the weeks go by. The yellow jackets say they will carry on every weekend until Macron reverses his fuel tax increases. It's not looking good for Macron. Perhaps that's what should be done by remain campaigners until they get their way? Would that be acceptable and is this how democracy should work? Thats a Silly comparison. If remain campaigners did that here you'd have leave supporters out on the streets fighting them in running battles. The yellow jackets in France have support across the board from the population and so there is no real 'opposition' to them." Equally foolish reply. The point, which you failed to see as usual, is attempting to change policy through violence. That's the same as terrorism isn't it? | |||
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"And so the anti Macron protests go on again this weekend in France, getting more and more support and gaining more momentum as the weeks go by. The yellow jackets say they will carry on every weekend until Macron reverses his fuel tax increases. It's not looking good for Macron. Perhaps that's what should be done by remain campaigners until they get their way? Would that be acceptable and is this how democracy should work? Thats a Silly comparison. If remain campaigners did that here you'd have leave supporters out on the streets fighting them in running battles. The yellow jackets in France have support across the board from the population and so there is no real 'opposition' to them. Where do you get your facts from? The yellow jackets do not have widespread support and are being condemned by all sides. The extremists are like all extremists - hell-bent on destruction and anarchy." A poll in France last weekend showed the protesters had as much as 75% support from the population. I'd call that widespread support. | |||
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"Is this about Macaron or fuel prices? I’ve not read too much but it seems (on the face of it) the latter. So you didn't see the anti Macron graffiti being sprayed on famous french landmarks in Paris on the news yesterday then? " nope. I wasn’t really paying attention to the news yesterday. Other than the football. | |||
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"And so the anti Macron protests go on again this weekend in France, getting more and more support and gaining more momentum as the weeks go by. The yellow jackets say they will carry on every weekend until Macron reverses his fuel tax increases. It's not looking good for Macron. Perhaps that's what should be done by remain campaigners until they get their way? Would that be acceptable and is this how democracy should work? Thats a Silly comparison. If remain campaigners did that here you'd have leave supporters out on the streets fighting them in running battles. The yellow jackets in France have support across the board from the population and so there is no real 'opposition' to them. Where do you get your facts from? The yellow jackets do not have widespread support and are being condemned by all sides. The extremists are like all extremists - hell-bent on destruction and anarchy. A poll in France last weekend showed the protesters had as much as 75% support from the population. I'd call that widespread support. " 75% of the population would support lower fuel prices? Wow 
How about rioting for free wide screen TVs?
Could you write anything more meaningless to support your position? | |||
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"And so the anti Macron protests go on again this weekend in France, getting more and more support and gaining more momentum as the weeks go by. The yellow jackets say they will carry on every weekend until Macron reverses his fuel tax increases. It's not looking good for Macron. Perhaps that's what should be done by remain campaigners until they get their way? Would that be acceptable and is this how democracy should work? Thats a Silly comparison. If remain campaigners did that here you'd have leave supporters out on the streets fighting them in running battles. The yellow jackets in France have support across the board from the population and so there is no real 'opposition' to them. Where do you get your facts from? The yellow jackets do not have widespread support and are being condemned by all sides. The extremists are like all extremists - hell-bent on destruction and anarchy. A poll in France last weekend showed the protesters had as much as 75% support from the population. I'd call that widespread support. 75% of the population would support lower fuel prices? Wow
How about rioting for free wide screen TVs?
Could you write anything more meaningless to support your position?"Wasn't _oo hot's assumption that they didn't have widespread support in the first place rather foolish then? I notice you didn't call him out on it? He probably wouldn't take my word for it (evidently so from his earlier comment) so quoting a poll which shows 75% support backs up my position, (so in that regard it's not really meaningless is it). Besides, as well as the poll showing 75% support for the protests, Macrons personal poll rating has also nose dived, now down as low as 20%. It's yet more evidence that things are looking bleak for Macron in France. | |||
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"Ok we have 280,000 being cited on the forum by a prominent member, BBC news has just said "quarter of a million" (250,000) - so from now on unless someone has actually counted them individually then it's fake news! The BBC news website was quoting 280,000 last night when I posted the thread. " I don't think it really matters that much whether it was 250,000 or 280,000 either number represents a large protest. I also don't think comparisons with the 700,000 march in London are valid either. The 250,000 were made up of a number of smaller demonstrations across the whole of France whereas the 700,000 was one large demonstration in one place. Which is more relevant and should carry more weight is hard to tell but they are definitely two completely different things. What is relevant is what sparked the demonstrations in France, which was large fuel price rises. I think this shoes the folly of using tax, and particularly direct fuel taxes, as the main weapon against climate change; a lesson learnt here by both John Major and Tony Blair. Hopefully Macron will learn the lesson too. Other options need to be looked at. | |||
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"Ok we have 280,000 being cited on the forum by a prominent member, BBC news has just said "quarter of a million" (250,000) - so from now on unless someone has actually counted them individually then it's fake news! The BBC news website was quoting 280,000 last night when I posted the thread. I heard that it was 800 billion people, and that only 14 showed up for the people’s vote March. Of course this is a sarcastic comment to show how you blindly believe anything that suits your alt right beliefs and mercilessly Attack anything that’s pro-Europe or anti-fascist. You truly are deluded fella. If you think it's 'alt right' to want to leave the EU, and if you think it's 'alt right' to want to respect a democratic result to leave then you seriously need help. Labour MP Kate Hoey wants to leave the EU, do you think she's 'alt right'? LOL Also the 280,000 figure is still on the BBC news website, i even gave the link in an earlier post. I think your anger got the better of you. I didn’t say that. But seeing as your bring it up. The alt-right absolutely support leaving Europe. That’s completely correct. And no that doesn’t mean that all leavers are alt-right. I’m making fun of the way you defend the bbc numbers for a protest you support, when you’ve previously attacked the bbc for saying a certain number of people showed up to a protest in a London for a protest you don’t support. You’ll notice, I am not disputing the estimated number of protesters. I never attacked the BBC for the numbers who attended the People's Vote march, it was actually me and a few other Brexit supporters on here who went with the official BBC numbers. The only numbers i attacked over the People's Vote march were the numbers Unleashed Kraken posted as he was there, he added another couple hundred thousand on top of the numbers being reported on the news. It was Unleashed kraken's numbers that were attacked on here not the BBC's. " In my defense I made absolutely clear that my estimate of 800,000 was my own estimate, that when the official figure of 700,000+ was reported I fully accepted it and also, does it really make that much difference if the actual figure was 800,000 or 700,000 any more than it makes that much difference if the actual figure is 250,000 or 280,000, there all just estimates; no one has actually gone out and counted them one by one. | |||
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"Ok we have 280,000 being cited on the forum by a prominent member, BBC news has just said "quarter of a million" (250,000) - so from now on unless someone has actually counted them individually then it's fake news! The BBC news website was quoting 280,000 last night when I posted the thread. I don't think it really matters that much whether it was 250,000 or 280,000 either number represents a large protest. I also don't think comparisons with the 700,000 march in London are valid either. The 250,000 were made up of a number of smaller demonstrations across the whole of France whereas the 700,000 was one large demonstration in one place. Which is more relevant and should carry more weight is hard to tell but they are definitely two completely different things. What is relevant is what sparked the demonstrations in France, which was large fuel price rises. I think this shoes the folly of using tax, and particularly direct fuel taxes, as the main weapon against climate change; a lesson learnt here by both John Major and Tony Blair. Hopefully Macron will learn the lesson too. Other options need to be looked at. " I wasn't drawing an exact parallel between the two protest. Merely underling the fact that Centaur had previously stated that a protest of 700,000 was irrelevant but one of 280,000 is game changing. He didn't respond. I asked if he thought it was the violence that made it less "weak". He didn't respond. On your second point, I agree. Not just fuel though. Any price shock leads to unrest. | |||
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"And so the anti Macron protests go on again this weekend in France, getting more and more support and gaining more momentum as the weeks go by. The yellow jackets say they will carry on every weekend until Macron reverses his fuel tax increases. It's not looking good for Macron. Perhaps that's what should be done by remain campaigners until they get their way? Would that be acceptable and is this how democracy should work? Thats a Silly comparison. If remain campaigners did that here you'd have leave supporters out on the streets fighting them in running battles. The yellow jackets in France have support across the board from the population and so there is no real 'opposition' to them. Where do you get your facts from? The yellow jackets do not have widespread support and are being condemned by all sides. The extremists are like all extremists - hell-bent on destruction and anarchy. A poll in France last weekend showed the protesters had as much as 75% support from the population. I'd call that widespread support. 75% of the population would support lower fuel prices? Wow
How about rioting for free wide screen TVs?
Could you write anything more meaningless to support your position?
Wasn't _oo hot's assumption that they didn't have widespread support in the first place rather foolish then? I notice you didn't call him out on it? He probably wouldn't take my word for it (evidently so from his earlier comment) so quoting a poll which shows 75% support backs up my position, (so in that regard it's not really meaningless is it).
Besides, as well as the poll showing 75% support for the protests, Macrons personal poll rating has also nose dived, now down as low as 20%. It's yet more evidence that things are looking bleak for Macron in France. "It will be interesting to see whether, after the violence and vandalism shown in Paris, support for these "yellow jackets" increases or diminishes. I can see quite a lot of people, like myself, who would sympathise with the fuel protests, not wanting to support a campaign of violence and vandalism against their government. | |||
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"Ok we have 280,000 being cited on the forum by a prominent member, BBC news has just said "quarter of a million" (250,000) - so from now on unless someone has actually counted them individually then it's fake news! The BBC news website was quoting 280,000 last night when I posted the thread. I don't think it really matters that much whether it was 250,000 or 280,000 either number represents a large protest. I also don't think comparisons with the 700,000 march in London are valid either. The 250,000 were made up of a number of smaller demonstrations across the whole of France whereas the 700,000 was one large demonstration in one place. Which is more relevant and should carry more weight is hard to tell but they are definitely two completely different things. What is relevant is what sparked the demonstrations in France, which was large fuel price rises. I think this shoes the folly of using tax, and particularly direct fuel taxes, as the main weapon against climate change; a lesson learnt here by both John Major and Tony Blair. Hopefully Macron will learn the lesson too. Other options need to be looked at. I wasn't drawing an exact parallel between the two protest. Merely underling the fact that Centaur had previously stated that a protest of 700,000 was irrelevant but one of 280,000 is game changing. He didn't respond. I asked if he thought it was the violence that made it less "weak". He didn't respond. On your second point, I agree. Not just fuel though. Any price shock leads to unrest." For the record fuel prices are falling here in France! A litre of diesel is about £1.30! I have no problem with demonstrations that's a right of freedom. I do however object to thugs because that's what they are, violent protesters of the extremes left & right! Name me 1 decent citizen who would deface their national monument? Let's deface the Arc de triomphe - or the cenotaph in London? This has now turned to a political revolt which needs to be controlled. When looters are looting luxury brand shops and electronic shops it's not about fuel prices. They are terrorists! | |||
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"Ok we have 280,000 being cited on the forum by a prominent member, BBC news has just said "quarter of a million" (250,000) - so from now on unless someone has actually counted them individually then it's fake news! The BBC news website was quoting 280,000 last night when I posted the thread. I don't think it really matters that much whether it was 250,000 or 280,000 either number represents a large protest. I also don't think comparisons with the 700,000 march in London are valid either. The 250,000 were made up of a number of smaller demonstrations across the whole of France whereas the 700,000 was one large demonstration in one place. Which is more relevant and should carry more weight is hard to tell but they are definitely two completely different things. What is relevant is what sparked the demonstrations in France, which was large fuel price rises. I think this shoes the folly of using tax, and particularly direct fuel taxes, as the main weapon against climate change; a lesson learnt here by both John Major and Tony Blair. Hopefully Macron will learn the lesson too. Other options need to be looked at. I wasn't drawing an exact parallel between the two protest. Merely underling the fact that Centaur had previously stated that a protest of 700,000 was irrelevant but one of 280,000 is game changing. He didn't respond. I asked if he thought it was the violence that made it less "weak". He didn't respond. On your second point, I agree. Not just fuel though. Any price shock leads to unrest." I did respond to the 280,000 vs 700,000 point in the thread, maybe not to you personally but I'm sure I replied to someone on the thread about it. But just for your benefit here it is again, the 700,000 who went on the Peoples vote March in London don't have widespread support from the wider population in the uk at large, evidenced through polling, so makes their protest less relevant. The 280,000 yellow jacket anti Macron/anti fuel protesters in France do have widespread support from the wider population in the country at large, even by your own words in your earlier comment it's obvious they have widespread support and it's also backed up by polling which makes the protests in France more relevant. Besides the 280,000 figure was from the first weekend of protests in France, this is now the 3rd weekend of protests and the number of protesters is increasing each weekend. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of protesters all over France surpassed the 700,000 figure this weekend. Does that now make their protest more relevant in your eyes than the Peoples vote March here if they now have higher numbers? On your second point about the violence. The protests in France started out as peaceful and only seem to turn violent when they are met by police with batons, tear gas, water cannons, etc, did you consider for one moment it may be the aggressive actions of the police which is fuelling the violence? | |||
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"And so the anti Macron protests go on again this weekend in France, getting more and more support and gaining more momentum as the weeks go by. The yellow jackets say they will carry on every weekend until Macron reverses his fuel tax increases. It's not looking good for Macron. Perhaps that's what should be done by remain campaigners until they get their way? Would that be acceptable and is this how democracy should work? Thats a Silly comparison. If remain campaigners did that here you'd have leave supporters out on the streets fighting them in running battles. The yellow jackets in France have support across the board from the population and so there is no real 'opposition' to them. Where do you get your facts from? The yellow jackets do not have widespread support and are being condemned by all sides. The extremists are like all extremists - hell-bent on destruction and anarchy. A poll in France last weekend showed the protesters had as much as 75% support from the population. I'd call that widespread support. 75% of the population would support lower fuel prices? Wow
How about rioting for free wide screen TVs?
Could you write anything more meaningless to support your position?
Wasn't _oo hot's assumption that they didn't have widespread support in the first place rather foolish then? I notice you didn't call him out on it? He probably wouldn't take my word for it (evidently so from his earlier comment) so quoting a poll which shows 75% support backs up my position, (so in that regard it's not really meaningless is it).
Besides, as well as the poll showing 75% support for the protests, Macrons personal poll rating has also nose dived, now down as low as 20%. It's yet more evidence that things are looking bleak for Macron in France. "You don't even know what the poll question was do you? You just read a headline and have written it here haven't you? Things may well be bad for Macron. He's trying to restructure the French economy. He started off at 66% popularity. It seems that the reality is not as popular as the rhetoric. Something to think about? Trump's approval ratings have hardly been above the mid 40s. He is historically unpopular. Is it the end for him or is that OK? If his poll ratings fall further should he go or only if there are riots? What if Macron's popularity rises again? How come you think Obama qas so terrible if he was historically popular at the time he left? Try to be consistent. Why are they "protests" and not "riots"? Should democracy bow to violence? Isn't that terrorism? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok we have 280,000 being cited on the forum by a prominent member, BBC news has just said "quarter of a million" (250,000) - so from now on unless someone has actually counted them individually then it's fake news! The BBC news website was quoting 280,000 last night when I posted the thread. I don't think it really matters that much whether it was 250,000 or 280,000 either number represents a large protest. I also don't think comparisons with the 700,000 march in London are valid either. The 250,000 were made up of a number of smaller demonstrations across the whole of France whereas the 700,000 was one large demonstration in one place. Which is more relevant and should carry more weight is hard to tell but they are definitely two completely different things. What is relevant is what sparked the demonstrations in France, which was large fuel price rises. I think this shoes the folly of using tax, and particularly direct fuel taxes, as the main weapon against climate change; a lesson learnt here by both John Major and Tony Blair. Hopefully Macron will learn the lesson too. Other options need to be looked at. I wasn't drawing an exact parallel between the two protest. Merely underling the fact that Centaur had previously stated that a protest of 700,000 was irrelevant but one of 280,000 is game changing. He didn't respond. I asked if he thought it was the violence that made it less "weak". He didn't respond. On your second point, I agree. Not just fuel though. Any price shock leads to unrest. I did respond to the 280,000 vs 700,000 point in the thread, maybe not to you personally but I'm sure I replied to someone on the thread about it. But just for your benefit here it is again, the 700,000 who went on the Peoples vote March in London don't have widespread support from the wider population in the uk at large, evidenced through polling, so makes their protest less relevant. The 280,000 yellow jacket anti Macron/anti fuel protesters in France do have widespread support from the wider population in the country at large, even by your own words in your earlier comment it's obvious they have widespread support and it's also backed up by polling which makes the protests in France more relevant. Besides the 280,000 figure was from the first weekend of protests in France, this is now the 3rd weekend of protests and the number of protesters is increasing each weekend. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of protesters all over France surpassed the 700,000 figure this weekend. Does that now make their protest more relevant in your eyes than the Peoples vote March here if they now have higher numbers? On your second point about the violence. The protests in France started out as peaceful and only seem to turn violent when they are met by police with batons, tear gas, water cannons, etc, did you consider for one moment it may be the aggressive actions of the police which is fuelling the violence? " Load of bollocks - they are now losing the sympathy of the people! Those "honest protesters" don't want anything to do with the "mob". | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok we have 280,000 being cited on the forum by a prominent member, BBC news has just said "quarter of a million" (250,000) - so from now on unless someone has actually counted them individually then it's fake news! The BBC news website was quoting 280,000 last night when I posted the thread. I don't think it really matters that much whether it was 250,000 or 280,000 either number represents a large protest. I also don't think comparisons with the 700,000 march in London are valid either. The 250,000 were made up of a number of smaller demonstrations across the whole of France whereas the 700,000 was one large demonstration in one place. Which is more relevant and should carry more weight is hard to tell but they are definitely two completely different things. What is relevant is what sparked the demonstrations in France, which was large fuel price rises. I think this shoes the folly of using tax, and particularly direct fuel taxes, as the main weapon against climate change; a lesson learnt here by both John Major and Tony Blair. Hopefully Macron will learn the lesson too. Other options need to be looked at. I wasn't drawing an exact parallel between the two protest. Merely underling the fact that Centaur had previously stated that a protest of 700,000 was irrelevant but one of 280,000 is game changing. He didn't respond. I asked if he thought it was the violence that made it less "weak". He didn't respond. On your second point, I agree. Not just fuel though. Any price shock leads to unrest. I did respond to the 280,000 vs 700,000 point in the thread, maybe not to you personally but I'm sure I replied to someone on the thread about it. But just for your benefit here it is again, the 700,000 who went on the Peoples vote March in London don't have widespread support from the wider population in the uk at large, evidenced through polling, so makes their protest less relevant. The 280,000 yellow jacket anti Macron/anti fuel protesters in France do have widespread support from the wider population in the country at large, even by your own words in your earlier comment it's obvious they have widespread support and it's also backed up by polling which makes the protests in France more relevant. Besides the 280,000 figure was from the first weekend of protests in France, this is now the 3rd weekend of protests and the number of protesters is increasing each weekend. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of protesters all over France surpassed the 700,000 figure this weekend. Does that now make their protest more relevant in your eyes than the Peoples vote March here if they now have higher numbers? On your second point about the violence. The protests in France started out as peaceful and only seem to turn violent when they are met by police with batons, tear gas, water cannons, etc, did you consider for one moment it may be the aggressive actions of the police which is fuelling the violence? " You don't believe polls
If the same people protest 5 times is that more people?
However, if hundreds of thousands of people protest it is something to take seriously regardless of the reason. You have refused to acknowledge that.
More people support a second vote than oppose it. That's according to the Mail
The French riot Police have always been heavy handed, but when there was violence in the Paris suburbs due to the poor conditions and prospects it was Muslim and immigrant rioting in your eyes.
French protests have also been historically violent.
The question still stands; should democracy bow to violence? Do yiu support the violence? Do you applaud it only when it defies something that you oppose? Is it a form of terrorism?
Be consistent. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok we have 280,000 being cited on the forum by a prominent member, BBC news has just said "quarter of a million" (250,000) - so from now on unless someone has actually counted them individually then it's fake news! The BBC news website was quoting 280,000 last night when I posted the thread. I don't think it really matters that much whether it was 250,000 or 280,000 either number represents a large protest. I also don't think comparisons with the 700,000 march in London are valid either. The 250,000 were made up of a number of smaller demonstrations across the whole of France whereas the 700,000 was one large demonstration in one place. Which is more relevant and should carry more weight is hard to tell but they are definitely two completely different things. What is relevant is what sparked the demonstrations in France, which was large fuel price rises. I think this shoes the folly of using tax, and particularly direct fuel taxes, as the main weapon against climate change; a lesson learnt here by both John Major and Tony Blair. Hopefully Macron will learn the lesson too. Other options need to be looked at. I wasn't drawing an exact parallel between the two protest. Merely underling the fact that Centaur had previously stated that a protest of 700,000 was irrelevant but one of 280,000 is game changing. He didn't respond. I asked if he thought it was the violence that made it less "weak". He didn't respond. On your second point, I agree. Not just fuel though. Any price shock leads to unrest. I did respond to the 280,000 vs 700,000 point in the thread, maybe not to you personally but I'm sure I replied to someone on the thread about it. But just for your benefit here it is again, the 700,000 who went on the Peoples vote March in London don't have widespread support from the wider population in the uk at large, evidenced through polling, so makes their protest less relevant. The 280,000 yellow jacket anti Macron/anti fuel protesters in France do have widespread support from the wider population in the country at large, even by your own words in your earlier comment it's obvious they have widespread support and it's also backed up by polling which makes the protests in France more relevant. Besides the 280,000 figure was from the first weekend of protests in France, this is now the 3rd weekend of protests and the number of protesters is increasing each weekend. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of protesters all over France surpassed the 700,000 figure this weekend. Does that now make their protest more relevant in your eyes than the Peoples vote March here if they now have higher numbers? On your second point about the violence. The protests in France started out as peaceful and only seem to turn violent when they are met by police with batons, tear gas, water cannons, etc, did you consider for one moment it may be the aggressive actions of the police which is fuelling the violence? You don't believe polls
If the same people protest 5 times is that more people?
However, if hundreds of thousands of people protest it is something to take seriously regardless of the reason. You have refused to acknowledge that.
More people support a second vote than oppose it. That's according to the Mail
The French riot Police have always been heavy handed, but when there was violence in the Paris suburbs due to the poor conditions and prospects it was Muslim and immigrant rioting in your eyes.
French protests have also been historically violent.
The question still stands; should democracy bow to violence? Do yiu support the violence? Do you applaud it only when it defies something that you oppose? Is it a form of terrorism?
Be consistent."I think you are one of the least qualified people on here to be asking questions about the merits of democracy when you can't accept a democratic decision that the British people have made to leave the EU. For the last 2 years on here you've shown nothing but a complete disdain for democracy. Also i don't ever recall commenting on Muslim or immigrant riots in Paris suburbs on here, do you have a link to the particular thread(s) in question where you think I made those comments? If not maybe you should apologise and withdraw that accusation. Seeing as you bring it up though do you think those Muslim and immigrant protests were peaceful, compared to these ones now which you think are violent? It's funny you tell other people to be consistent when you show absolutely no sign of being consistent yourself on here. How about you practice what you preach before attempting to Lord it over others. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok we have 280,000 being cited on the forum by a prominent member, BBC news has just said "quarter of a million" (250,000) - so from now on unless someone has actually counted them individually then it's fake news! The BBC news website was quoting 280,000 last night when I posted the thread. I don't think it really matters that much whether it was 250,000 or 280,000 either number represents a large protest. I also don't think comparisons with the 700,000 march in London are valid either. The 250,000 were made up of a number of smaller demonstrations across the whole of France whereas the 700,000 was one large demonstration in one place. Which is more relevant and should carry more weight is hard to tell but they are definitely two completely different things. What is relevant is what sparked the demonstrations in France, which was large fuel price rises. I think this shoes the folly of using tax, and particularly direct fuel taxes, as the main weapon against climate change; a lesson learnt here by both John Major and Tony Blair. Hopefully Macron will learn the lesson too. Other options need to be looked at. I wasn't drawing an exact parallel between the two protest. Merely underling the fact that Centaur had previously stated that a protest of 700,000 was irrelevant but one of 280,000 is game changing. He didn't respond. I asked if he thought it was the violence that made it less "weak". He didn't respond. On your second point, I agree. Not just fuel though. Any price shock leads to unrest. I did respond to the 280,000 vs 700,000 point in the thread, maybe not to you personally but I'm sure I replied to someone on the thread about it. But just for your benefit here it is again, the 700,000 who went on the Peoples vote March in London don't have widespread support from the wider population in the uk at large, evidenced through polling, so makes their protest less relevant. The 280,000 yellow jacket anti Macron/anti fuel protesters in France do have widespread support from the wider population in the country at large, even by your own words in your earlier comment it's obvious they have widespread support and it's also backed up by polling which makes the protests in France more relevant. Besides the 280,000 figure was from the first weekend of protests in France, this is now the 3rd weekend of protests and the number of protesters is increasing each weekend. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of protesters all over France surpassed the 700,000 figure this weekend. Does that now make their protest more relevant in your eyes than the Peoples vote March here if they now have higher numbers? On your second point about the violence. The protests in France started out as peaceful and only seem to turn violent when they are met by police with batons, tear gas, water cannons, etc, did you consider for one moment it may be the aggressive actions of the police which is fuelling the violence? You don't believe polls
If the same people protest 5 times is that more people?
However, if hundreds of thousands of people protest it is something to take seriously regardless of the reason. You have refused to acknowledge that.
More people support a second vote than oppose it. That's according to the Mail
The French riot Police have always been heavy handed, but when there was violence in the Paris suburbs due to the poor conditions and prospects it was Muslim and immigrant rioting in your eyes.
French protests have also been historically violent.
The question still stands; should democracy bow to violence? Do yiu support the violence? Do you applaud it only when it defies something that you oppose? Is it a form of terrorism?
Be consistent."Ok breaking news..... Apparently evidence is coming out that the unions and far right are behind the protests - opponents to Macron. Unions telling their members to turn up "incognito" so that it doesn't look like organized resistance! Elections to EU next year - want to influence voters! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok we have 280,000 being cited on the forum by a prominent member, BBC news has just said "quarter of a million" (250,000) - so from now on unless someone has actually counted them individually then it's fake news! The BBC news website was quoting 280,000 last night when I posted the thread. I don't think it really matters that much whether it was 250,000 or 280,000 either number represents a large protest. I also don't think comparisons with the 700,000 march in London are valid either. The 250,000 were made up of a number of smaller demonstrations across the whole of France whereas the 700,000 was one large demonstration in one place. Which is more relevant and should carry more weight is hard to tell but they are definitely two completely different things. What is relevant is what sparked the demonstrations in France, which was large fuel price rises. I think this shoes the folly of using tax, and particularly direct fuel taxes, as the main weapon against climate change; a lesson learnt here by both John Major and Tony Blair. Hopefully Macron will learn the lesson too. Other options need to be looked at. I wasn't drawing an exact parallel between the two protest. Merely underling the fact that Centaur had previously stated that a protest of 700,000 was irrelevant but one of 280,000 is game changing. He didn't respond. I asked if he thought it was the violence that made it less "weak". He didn't respond. On your second point, I agree. Not just fuel though. Any price shock leads to unrest. I did respond to the 280,000 vs 700,000 point in the thread, maybe not to you personally but I'm sure I replied to someone on the thread about it. But just for your benefit here it is again, the 700,000 who went on the Peoples vote March in London don't have widespread support from the wider population in the uk at large, evidenced through polling, so makes their protest less relevant. The 280,000 yellow jacket anti Macron/anti fuel protesters in France do have widespread support from the wider population in the country at large, even by your own words in your earlier comment it's obvious they have widespread support and it's also backed up by polling which makes the protests in France more relevant. Besides the 280,000 figure was from the first weekend of protests in France, this is now the 3rd weekend of protests and the number of protesters is increasing each weekend. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of protesters all over France surpassed the 700,000 figure this weekend. Does that now make their protest more relevant in your eyes than the Peoples vote March here if they now have higher numbers? On your second point about the violence. The protests in France started out as peaceful and only seem to turn violent when they are met by police with batons, tear gas, water cannons, etc, did you consider for one moment it may be the aggressive actions of the police which is fuelling the violence? You don't believe polls
If the same people protest 5 times is that more people?
However, if hundreds of thousands of people protest it is something to take seriously regardless of the reason. You have refused to acknowledge that.
More people support a second vote than oppose it. That's according to the Mail
The French riot Police have always been heavy handed, but when there was violence in the Paris suburbs due to the poor conditions and prospects it was Muslim and immigrant rioting in your eyes.
French protests have also been historically violent.
The question still stands; should democracy bow to violence? Do yiu support the violence? Do you applaud it only when it defies something that you oppose? Is it a form of terrorism?
Be consistent.
I think you are one of the least qualified people on here to be asking questions about the merits of democracy when you can't accept a democratic decision that the British people have made to leave the EU. For the last 2 years on here you've shown nothing but a complete disdain for democracy.
Also i don't ever recall commenting on Muslim or immigrant riots in Paris suburbs on here, do you have a link to the particular thread(s) in question where you think I made those comments? If not maybe you should apologise and withdraw that accusation.
Seeing as you bring it up though do you think those Muslim and immigrant protests were peaceful, compared to these ones now which you think are violent?
It's funny you tell other people to be consistent when you show absolutely no sign of being consistent yourself on here. How about you practice what you preach before attempting to Lord it over others. "I don't accept a democratic vote at all. That's the point of democracy. I can oppose any decision or government and try to change it. You do get that don't you? I can only explain that in so many ways. You may disagree with me, but that doesn't make you right and me wrong does it? No, I don't have a link to your condemnation of the Paris riots. Do you have a link to 2 years worth of a disdain for democracy?
The riots in the Paris suburbs were just that. I can understand why but not support what was done.
You often ask me direct questions like this and I give you direct answers. You've rarely manage the same courtesy.
In your view it seems that the world is either with you or against you. I don't see it like that.
You can't even bring yourself to see any benefits of views that oppose yours or any weaknesses in your own position. Please don't try to suggest that this makes your opinions in any way credible. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok we have 280,000 being cited on the forum by a prominent member, BBC news has just said "quarter of a million" (250,000) - so from now on unless someone has actually counted them individually then it's fake news! The BBC news website was quoting 280,000 last night when I posted the thread. I don't think it really matters that much whether it was 250,000 or 280,000 either number represents a large protest. I also don't think comparisons with the 700,000 march in London are valid either. The 250,000 were made up of a number of smaller demonstrations across the whole of France whereas the 700,000 was one large demonstration in one place. Which is more relevant and should carry more weight is hard to tell but they are definitely two completely different things. What is relevant is what sparked the demonstrations in France, which was large fuel price rises. I think this shoes the folly of using tax, and particularly direct fuel taxes, as the main weapon against climate change; a lesson learnt here by both John Major and Tony Blair. Hopefully Macron will learn the lesson too. Other options need to be looked at. I wasn't drawing an exact parallel between the two protest. Merely underling the fact that Centaur had previously stated that a protest of 700,000 was irrelevant but one of 280,000 is game changing. He didn't respond. I asked if he thought it was the violence that made it less "weak". He didn't respond. On your second point, I agree. Not just fuel though. Any price shock leads to unrest. I did respond to the 280,000 vs 700,000 point in the thread, maybe not to you personally but I'm sure I replied to someone on the thread about it. But just for your benefit here it is again, the 700,000 who went on the Peoples vote March in London don't have widespread support from the wider population in the uk at large, evidenced through polling, so makes their protest less relevant. The 280,000 yellow jacket anti Macron/anti fuel protesters in France do have widespread support from the wider population in the country at large, even by your own words in your earlier comment it's obvious they have widespread support and it's also backed up by polling which makes the protests in France more relevant. Besides the 280,000 figure was from the first weekend of protests in France, this is now the 3rd weekend of protests and the number of protesters is increasing each weekend. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of protesters all over France surpassed the 700,000 figure this weekend. Does that now make their protest more relevant in your eyes than the Peoples vote March here if they now have higher numbers? On your second point about the violence. The protests in France started out as peaceful and only seem to turn violent when they are met by police with batons, tear gas, water cannons, etc, did you consider for one moment it may be the aggressive actions of the police which is fuelling the violence? You don't believe polls
If the same people protest 5 times is that more people?
However, if hundreds of thousands of people protest it is something to take seriously regardless of the reason. You have refused to acknowledge that.
More people support a second vote than oppose it. That's according to the Mail
The French riot Police have always been heavy handed, but when there was violence in the Paris suburbs due to the poor conditions and prospects it was Muslim and immigrant rioting in your eyes.
French protests have also been historically violent.
The question still stands; should democracy bow to violence? Do yiu support the violence? Do you applaud it only when it defies something that you oppose? Is it a form of terrorism?
Be consistent.
Ok breaking news.....
Apparently evidence is coming out that the unions and far right are behind the protests - opponents to Macron.
Unions telling their members to turn up "incognito" so that it doesn't look like organized resistance! Elections to EU next year - want to influence voters!"It seems odd that the unions would not protest openly. They have always done so in the past. It's their job isn't it? If it's true, is there a collusion with the right that they are embarrassed about? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok we have 280,000 being cited on the forum by a prominent member, BBC news has just said "quarter of a million" (250,000) - so from now on unless someone has actually counted them individually then it's fake news! The BBC news website was quoting 280,000 last night when I posted the thread. I don't think it really matters that much whether it was 250,000 or 280,000 either number represents a large protest. I also don't think comparisons with the 700,000 march in London are valid either. The 250,000 were made up of a number of smaller demonstrations across the whole of France whereas the 700,000 was one large demonstration in one place. Which is more relevant and should carry more weight is hard to tell but they are definitely two completely different things. What is relevant is what sparked the demonstrations in France, which was large fuel price rises. I think this shoes the folly of using tax, and particularly direct fuel taxes, as the main weapon against climate change; a lesson learnt here by both John Major and Tony Blair. Hopefully Macron will learn the lesson too. Other options need to be looked at. I wasn't drawing an exact parallel between the two protest. Merely underling the fact that Centaur had previously stated that a protest of 700,000 was irrelevant but one of 280,000 is game changing. He didn't respond. I asked if he thought it was the violence that made it less "weak". He didn't respond. On your second point, I agree. Not just fuel though. Any price shock leads to unrest. I did respond to the 280,000 vs 700,000 point in the thread, maybe not to you personally but I'm sure I replied to someone on the thread about it. But just for your benefit here it is again, the 700,000 who went on the Peoples vote March in London don't have widespread support from the wider population in the uk at large, evidenced through polling, so makes their protest less relevant. The 280,000 yellow jacket anti Macron/anti fuel protesters in France do have widespread support from the wider population in the country at large, even by your own words in your earlier comment it's obvious they have widespread support and it's also backed up by polling which makes the protests in France more relevant. Besides the 280,000 figure was from the first weekend of protests in France, this is now the 3rd weekend of protests and the number of protesters is increasing each weekend. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of protesters all over France surpassed the 700,000 figure this weekend. Does that now make their protest more relevant in your eyes than the Peoples vote March here if they now have higher numbers? On your second point about the violence. The protests in France started out as peaceful and only seem to turn violent when they are met by police with batons, tear gas, water cannons, etc, did you consider for one moment it may be the aggressive actions of the police which is fuelling the violence? You don't believe polls
If the same people protest 5 times is that more people?
However, if hundreds of thousands of people protest it is something to take seriously regardless of the reason. You have refused to acknowledge that.
More people support a second vote than oppose it. That's according to the Mail
The French riot Police have always been heavy handed, but when there was violence in the Paris suburbs due to the poor conditions and prospects it was Muslim and immigrant rioting in your eyes.
French protests have also been historically violent.
The question still stands; should democracy bow to violence? Do yiu support the violence? Do you applaud it only when it defies something that you oppose? Is it a form of terrorism?
Be consistent.
Ok breaking news.....
Apparently evidence is coming out that the unions and far right are behind the protests - opponents to Macron.
Unions telling their members to turn up "incognito" so that it doesn't look like organized resistance! Elections to EU next year - want to influence voters!
It seems odd that the unions would not protest openly. They have always done so in the past. It's their job isn't it?
If it's true, is there a collusion with the right that they are embarrassed about?"Why do you always assume everything is a far right conspiracy? Do you check under your bed for far right activists before you go to sleep?
The far left have also supported these protests in France lead by the far left french leader Melenchon. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok we have 280,000 being cited on the forum by a prominent member, BBC news has just said "quarter of a million" (250,000) - so from now on unless someone has actually counted them individually then it's fake news! The BBC news website was quoting 280,000 last night when I posted the thread. I don't think it really matters that much whether it was 250,000 or 280,000 either number represents a large protest. I also don't think comparisons with the 700,000 march in London are valid either. The 250,000 were made up of a number of smaller demonstrations across the whole of France whereas the 700,000 was one large demonstration in one place. Which is more relevant and should carry more weight is hard to tell but they are definitely two completely different things. What is relevant is what sparked the demonstrations in France, which was large fuel price rises. I think this shoes the folly of using tax, and particularly direct fuel taxes, as the main weapon against climate change; a lesson learnt here by both John Major and Tony Blair. Hopefully Macron will learn the lesson too. Other options need to be looked at. I wasn't drawing an exact parallel between the two protest. Merely underling the fact that Centaur had previously stated that a protest of 700,000 was irrelevant but one of 280,000 is game changing. He didn't respond. I asked if he thought it was the violence that made it less "weak". He didn't respond. On your second point, I agree. Not just fuel though. Any price shock leads to unrest. I did respond to the 280,000 vs 700,000 point in the thread, maybe not to you personally but I'm sure I replied to someone on the thread about it. But just for your benefit here it is again, the 700,000 who went on the Peoples vote March in London don't have widespread support from the wider population in the uk at large, evidenced through polling, so makes their protest less relevant. The 280,000 yellow jacket anti Macron/anti fuel protesters in France do have widespread support from the wider population in the country at large, even by your own words in your earlier comment it's obvious they have widespread support and it's also backed up by polling which makes the protests in France more relevant. Besides the 280,000 figure was from the first weekend of protests in France, this is now the 3rd weekend of protests and the number of protesters is increasing each weekend. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of protesters all over France surpassed the 700,000 figure this weekend. Does that now make their protest more relevant in your eyes than the Peoples vote March here if they now have higher numbers? On your second point about the violence. The protests in France started out as peaceful and only seem to turn violent when they are met by police with batons, tear gas, water cannons, etc, did you consider for one moment it may be the aggressive actions of the police which is fuelling the violence? You don't believe polls
If the same people protest 5 times is that more people?
However, if hundreds of thousands of people protest it is something to take seriously regardless of the reason. You have refused to acknowledge that.
More people support a second vote than oppose it. That's according to the Mail
The French riot Police have always been heavy handed, but when there was violence in the Paris suburbs due to the poor conditions and prospects it was Muslim and immigrant rioting in your eyes.
French protests have also been historically violent.
The question still stands; should democracy bow to violence? Do yiu support the violence? Do you applaud it only when it defies something that you oppose? Is it a form of terrorism?
Be consistent.
Ok breaking news.....
Apparently evidence is coming out that the unions and far right are behind the protests - opponents to Macron.
Unions telling their members to turn up "incognito" so that it doesn't look like organized resistance! Elections to EU next year - want to influence voters!
It seems odd that the unions would not protest openly. They have always done so in the past. It's their job isn't it?
If it's true, is there a collusion with the right that they are embarrassed about?
Why do you always assume everything is a far right conspiracy?
Do you check under your bed for far right activists before you go to sleep?
The far left have also supported these protests in France lead by the far left french leader Melenchon. ""If it is true..." Get a grip. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok we have 280,000 being cited on the forum by a prominent member, BBC news has just said "quarter of a million" (250,000) - so from now on unless someone has actually counted them individually then it's fake news! The BBC news website was quoting 280,000 last night when I posted the thread. I don't think it really matters that much whether it was 250,000 or 280,000 either number represents a large protest. I also don't think comparisons with the 700,000 march in London are valid either. The 250,000 were made up of a number of smaller demonstrations across the whole of France whereas the 700,000 was one large demonstration in one place. Which is more relevant and should carry more weight is hard to tell but they are definitely two completely different things. What is relevant is what sparked the demonstrations in France, which was large fuel price rises. I think this shoes the folly of using tax, and particularly direct fuel taxes, as the main weapon against climate change; a lesson learnt here by both John Major and Tony Blair. Hopefully Macron will learn the lesson too. Other options need to be looked at. I wasn't drawing an exact parallel between the two protest. Merely underling the fact that Centaur had previously stated that a protest of 700,000 was irrelevant but one of 280,000 is game changing. He didn't respond. I asked if he thought it was the violence that made it less "weak". He didn't respond. On your second point, I agree. Not just fuel though. Any price shock leads to unrest. I did respond to the 280,000 vs 700,000 point in the thread, maybe not to you personally but I'm sure I replied to someone on the thread about it. But just for your benefit here it is again, the 700,000 who went on the Peoples vote March in London don't have widespread support from the wider population in the uk at large, evidenced through polling, so makes their protest less relevant. The 280,000 yellow jacket anti Macron/anti fuel protesters in France do have widespread support from the wider population in the country at large, even by your own words in your earlier comment it's obvious they have widespread support and it's also backed up by polling which makes the protests in France more relevant. Besides the 280,000 figure was from the first weekend of protests in France, this is now the 3rd weekend of protests and the number of protesters is increasing each weekend. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of protesters all over France surpassed the 700,000 figure this weekend. Does that now make their protest more relevant in your eyes than the Peoples vote March here if they now have higher numbers? On your second point about the violence. The protests in France started out as peaceful and only seem to turn violent when they are met by police with batons, tear gas, water cannons, etc, did you consider for one moment it may be the aggressive actions of the police which is fuelling the violence? You don't believe polls
If the same people protest 5 times is that more people?
However, if hundreds of thousands of people protest it is something to take seriously regardless of the reason. You have refused to acknowledge that.
More people support a second vote than oppose it. That's according to the Mail
The French riot Police have always been heavy handed, but when there was violence in the Paris suburbs due to the poor conditions and prospects it was Muslim and immigrant rioting in your eyes.
French protests have also been historically violent.
The question still stands; should democracy bow to violence? Do yiu support the violence? Do you applaud it only when it defies something that you oppose? Is it a form of terrorism?
Be consistent.
Ok breaking news.....
Apparently evidence is coming out that the unions and far right are behind the protests - opponents to Macron.
Unions telling their members to turn up "incognito" so that it doesn't look like organized resistance! Elections to EU next year - want to influence voters!
It seems odd that the unions would not protest openly. They have always done so in the past. It's their job isn't it?
If it's true, is there a collusion with the right that they are embarrassed about?"No idea just a French news feed - sorry. But how does it look when you deface the national monument and tomb of the unknown soldier? Would you want to be linked to that? Turning a lot of people off them! | |||
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"Ok we have 280,000 being cited on the forum by a prominent member, BBC news has just said "quarter of a million" (250,000) - so from now on unless someone has actually counted them individually then it's fake news! The BBC news website was quoting 280,000 last night when I posted the thread. I don't think it really matters that much whether it was 250,000 or 280,000 either number represents a large protest. I also don't think comparisons with the 700,000 march in London are valid either. The 250,000 were made up of a number of smaller demonstrations across the whole of France whereas the 700,000 was one large demonstration in one place. Which is more relevant and should carry more weight is hard to tell but they are definitely two completely different things. What is relevant is what sparked the demonstrations in France, which was large fuel price rises. I think this shoes the folly of using tax, and particularly direct fuel taxes, as the main weapon against climate change; a lesson learnt here by both John Major and Tony Blair. Hopefully Macron will learn the lesson too. Other options need to be looked at. I wasn't drawing an exact parallel between the two protest. Merely underling the fact that Centaur had previously stated that a protest of 700,000 was irrelevant but one of 280,000 is game changing. He didn't respond. I asked if he thought it was the violence that made it less "weak". He didn't respond. On your second point, I agree. Not just fuel though. Any price shock leads to unrest. I did respond to the 280,000 vs 700,000 point in the thread, maybe not to you personally but I'm sure I replied to someone on the thread about it. But just for your benefit here it is again, the 700,000 who went on the Peoples vote March in London don't have widespread support from the wider population in the uk at large, evidenced through polling, so makes their protest less relevant. The 280,000 yellow jacket anti Macron/anti fuel protesters in France do have widespread support from the wider population in the country at large, even by your own words in your earlier comment it's obvious they have widespread support and it's also backed up by polling which makes the protests in France more relevant. Besides the 280,000 figure was from the first weekend of protests in France, this is now the 3rd weekend of protests and the number of protesters is increasing each weekend. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of protesters all over France surpassed the 700,000 figure this weekend. Does that now make their protest more relevant in your eyes than the Peoples vote March here if they now have higher numbers? On your second point about the violence. The protests in France started out as peaceful and only seem to turn violent when they are met by police with batons, tear gas, water cannons, etc, did you consider for one moment it may be the aggressive actions of the police which is fuelling the violence? You don't believe polls
If the same people protest 5 times is that more people?
However, if hundreds of thousands of people protest it is something to take seriously regardless of the reason. You have refused to acknowledge that.
More people support a second vote than oppose it. That's according to the Mail
The French riot Police have always been heavy handed, but when there was violence in the Paris suburbs due to the poor conditions and prospects it was Muslim and immigrant rioting in your eyes.
French protests have also been historically violent.
The question still stands; should democracy bow to violence? Do yiu support the violence? Do you applaud it only when it defies something that you oppose? Is it a form of terrorism?
Be consistent.
Ok breaking news.....
Apparently evidence is coming out that the unions and far right are behind the protests - opponents to Macron.
Unions telling their members to turn up "incognito" so that it doesn't look like organized resistance! Elections to EU next year - want to influence voters!
It seems odd that the unions would not protest openly. They have always done so in the past. It's their job isn't it?
If it's true, is there a collusion with the right that they are embarrassed about?
Why do you always assume everything is a far right conspiracy?
Do you check under your bed for far right activists before you go to sleep?
The far left have also supported these protests in France lead by the far left french leader Melenchon. "Careful when telling the truth, the libtards will be pressing the “report” button. | |||
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"Ok we have 280,000 being cited on the forum by a prominent member, BBC news has just said "quarter of a million" (250,000) - so from now on unless someone has actually counted them individually then it's fake news! The BBC news website was quoting 280,000 last night when I posted the thread. I don't think it really matters that much whether it was 250,000 or 280,000 either number represents a large protest. I also don't think comparisons with the 700,000 march in London are valid either. The 250,000 were made up of a number of smaller demonstrations across the whole of France whereas the 700,000 was one large demonstration in one place. Which is more relevant and should carry more weight is hard to tell but they are definitely two completely different things. What is relevant is what sparked the demonstrations in France, which was large fuel price rises. I think this shoes the folly of using tax, and particularly direct fuel taxes, as the main weapon against climate change; a lesson learnt here by both John Major and Tony Blair. Hopefully Macron will learn the lesson too. Other options need to be looked at. I wasn't drawing an exact parallel between the two protest. Merely underling the fact that Centaur had previously stated that a protest of 700,000 was irrelevant but one of 280,000 is game changing. He didn't respond. I asked if he thought it was the violence that made it less "weak". He didn't respond. On your second point, I agree. Not just fuel though. Any price shock leads to unrest. I did respond to the 280,000 vs 700,000 point in the thread, maybe not to you personally but I'm sure I replied to someone on the thread about it. But just for your benefit here it is again, the 700,000 who went on the Peoples vote March in London don't have widespread support from the wider population in the uk at large, evidenced through polling, so makes their protest less relevant. The 280,000 yellow jacket anti Macron/anti fuel protesters in France do have widespread support from the wider population in the country at large, even by your own words in your earlier comment it's obvious they have widespread support and it's also backed up by polling which makes the protests in France more relevant. Besides the 280,000 figure was from the first weekend of protests in France, this is now the 3rd weekend of protests and the number of protesters is increasing each weekend. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of protesters all over France surpassed the 700,000 figure this weekend. Does that now make their protest more relevant in your eyes than the Peoples vote March here if they now have higher numbers? On your second point about the violence. The protests in France started out as peaceful and only seem to turn violent when they are met by police with batons, tear gas, water cannons, etc, did you consider for one moment it may be the aggressive actions of the police which is fuelling the violence? You don't believe polls
If the same people protest 5 times is that more people?
However, if hundreds of thousands of people protest it is something to take seriously regardless of the reason. You have refused to acknowledge that.
More people support a second vote than oppose it. That's according to the Mail
The French riot Police have always been heavy handed, but when there was violence in the Paris suburbs due to the poor conditions and prospects it was Muslim and immigrant rioting in your eyes.
French protests have also been historically violent.
The question still stands; should democracy bow to violence? Do yiu support the violence? Do you applaud it only when it defies something that you oppose? Is it a form of terrorism?
Be consistent.
Ok breaking news.....
Apparently evidence is coming out that the unions and far right are behind the protests - opponents to Macron.
Unions telling their members to turn up "incognito" so that it doesn't look like organized resistance! Elections to EU next year - want to influence voters!
It seems odd that the unions would not protest openly. They have always done so in the past. It's their job isn't it?
If it's true, is there a collusion with the right that they are embarrassed about?
No idea just a French news feed - sorry. But how does it look when you deface the national monument and tomb of the unknown soldier? Would you want to be linked to that?
Turning a lot of people off them!"Yeah I think such behaviour has finished this movement.You don't deface your cultural architecture and disrespect the dead. | |||
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"From where I was standing the gilet jaune were protecting the wreaths and candles at the arc de triumph before they got smashed by the CRS. The people here are from all political viewpoints not just far right. They are socialists, communists, far left, far right, right, left, Liberal, central, anarchists, black bloc. Men, women, children, disabled in wheelchairs. Switch your propaganda TV off and get the real news. I will say having snipers on the roofs is a bit worrying. " The CRS didn't graffiti the Arc de Triomphe though did they? Not being there I cannot attest to that of course. What's your take on that? | |||
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"From where I was standing the gilet jaune were protecting the wreaths and candles at the arc de triumph before they got smashed by the CRS. The people here are from all political viewpoints not just far right. They are socialists, communists, far left, far right, right, left, Liberal, central, anarchists, black bloc. Men, women, children, disabled in wheelchairs. Switch your propaganda TV off and get the real news. I will say having snipers on the roofs is a bit worrying. The CRS didn't graffiti the Arc de Triomphe though did they? Not being there I cannot attest to that of course. What's your take on that?" There is a lot of anarchists and black bloc around, the CRS also have undercover plain clothes infiltrators within the gilet jaune now, identifying the main protagonists. The Arc de triomphe is a monument to the French revolution and Napoleonic wars, it just happens the tomb of the unknown soldier lies beneath it, this was protected by jilet jaunes. As in 1968 a lot of these people consider themselves revolutionary. I see a lot of regional flags and the tricolour with the cross of Lorraine on. Their reasons are valid, they are fed up with being taken for fools, so they do what is necessary, that is in their historical blood. I can say the majority of people I talk too, normal everyday people support the movement, it has morphed from just fuel tax, to all tax and standards of living. France is expensive, I don't blame them. I don't like violence, damage and graffiti, but as we all know any movement with a beef against goverment gets hijacked by extreme groups. The authorities know that, we know that. The majority want dialogue and change for their lives. When meetings fall apart because the government do not want them to be videoed or recorded you smell a rat and think your going to be hoodwinked. The free thinking French are fed up with the lies and deceit of politicians and their media. Macron has already shown what a smarmy little git he is, all show for the TV cameras, it's actually cringe worthy to watch. Be very interesting to see what unfolds. I know state of emergency has been banded about, will Macron call on more heavy tactics. Dialogue is needed most definitely, but the Jilet jaune is not that organised, its people everywhere mobilised by sentiment and feeling spread through social media. It starts through local communes and radiates out. Macron is detached, he does not understand this sentiment and feeling. He thought he did, but he doesn't, it was all smoke and mirrors, hot air to deceive, He's been found out, rumbled. I think the jilet jaune will get more organised now, unfortunately they can not stop infiltration by hard liners who like a spray can, kicking in shop front windows and fighting the law. That's rioting, that's revolutionary, that's what happens. The French are masters at this. | |||
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"I think once you loot your city desecrate war dead tombs put dozens off police office in hospital.The state and the public see you for what you are. I think these extremists thugs got off lightly.. The world was watching and they brought shame on their country." This.. Macron either clamps down or it spreads.. | |||
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"Ok we have 280,000 being cited on the forum by a prominent member, BBC news has just said "quarter of a million" (250,000) - so from now on unless someone has actually counted them individually then it's fake news! The BBC news website was quoting 280,000 last night when I posted the thread. I don't think it really matters that much whether it was 250,000 or 280,000 either number represents a large protest. I also don't think comparisons with the 700,000 march in London are valid either. The 250,000 were made up of a number of smaller demonstrations across the whole of France whereas the 700,000 was one large demonstration in one place. Which is more relevant and should carry more weight is hard to tell but they are definitely two completely different things. What is relevant is what sparked the demonstrations in France, which was large fuel price rises. I think this shoes the folly of using tax, and particularly direct fuel taxes, as the main weapon against climate change; a lesson learnt here by both John Major and Tony Blair. Hopefully Macron will learn the lesson too. Other options need to be looked at. I wasn't drawing an exact parallel between the two protest. Merely underling the fact that Centaur had previously stated that a protest of 700,000 was irrelevant but one of 280,000 is game changing. He didn't respond. I asked if he thought it was the violence that made it less "weak". He didn't respond. On your second point, I agree. Not just fuel though. Any price shock leads to unrest. I did respond to the 280,000 vs 700,000 point in the thread, maybe not to you personally but I'm sure I replied to someone on the thread about it. But just for your benefit here it is again, the 700,000 who went on the Peoples vote March in London don't have widespread support from the wider population in the uk at large, evidenced through polling, so makes their protest less relevant. The 280,000 yellow jacket anti Macron/anti fuel protesters in France do have widespread support from the wider population in the country at large, even by your own words in your earlier comment it's obvious they have widespread support and it's also backed up by polling which makes the protests in France more relevant. Besides the 280,000 figure was from the first weekend of protests in France, this is now the 3rd weekend of protests and the number of protesters is increasing each weekend. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of protesters all over France surpassed the 700,000 figure this weekend. Does that now make their protest more relevant in your eyes than the Peoples vote March here if they now have higher numbers? On your second point about the violence. The protests in France started out as peaceful and only seem to turn violent when they are met by police with batons, tear gas, water cannons, etc, did you consider for one moment it may be the aggressive actions of the police which is fuelling the violence? Load of bollocks - they are now losing the sympathy of the people! Those "honest protesters" don't want anything to do with the "mob". " Doesn't seem like they are losing sympathy from the people judging by the footage on the news last night. Macron was greeted by a chorus of BOOS when he returned from the G20 in Argentina to Inspect the damage in Paris. Also I only cited 1 poll that showed 75% support for the protests, the BBC reported last night a number of polls (plural) now show support for the protests. | |||
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"Ok we have 280,000 being cited on the forum by a prominent member, BBC news has just said "quarter of a million" (250,000) - so from now on unless someone has actually counted them individually then it's fake news! The BBC news website was quoting 280,000 last night when I posted the thread. I don't think it really matters that much whether it was 250,000 or 280,000 either number represents a large protest. I also don't think comparisons with the 700,000 march in London are valid either. The 250,000 were made up of a number of smaller demonstrations across the whole of France whereas the 700,000 was one large demonstration in one place. Which is more relevant and should carry more weight is hard to tell but they are definitely two completely different things. What is relevant is what sparked the demonstrations in France, which was large fuel price rises. I think this shoes the folly of using tax, and particularly direct fuel taxes, as the main weapon against climate change; a lesson learnt here by both John Major and Tony Blair. Hopefully Macron will learn the lesson too. Other options need to be looked at. I wasn't drawing an exact parallel between the two protest. Merely underling the fact that Centaur had previously stated that a protest of 700,000 was irrelevant but one of 280,000 is game changing. He didn't respond. I asked if he thought it was the violence that made it less "weak". He didn't respond. On your second point, I agree. Not just fuel though. Any price shock leads to unrest. I did respond to the 280,000 vs 700,000 point in the thread, maybe not to you personally but I'm sure I replied to someone on the thread about it. But just for your benefit here it is again, the 700,000 who went on the Peoples vote March in London don't have widespread support from the wider population in the uk at large, evidenced through polling, so makes their protest less relevant. The 280,000 yellow jacket anti Macron/anti fuel protesters in France do have widespread support from the wider population in the country at large, even by your own words in your earlier comment it's obvious they have widespread support and it's also backed up by polling which makes the protests in France more relevant. Besides the 280,000 figure was from the first weekend of protests in France, this is now the 3rd weekend of protests and the number of protesters is increasing each weekend. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of protesters all over France surpassed the 700,000 figure this weekend. Does that now make their protest more relevant in your eyes than the Peoples vote March here if they now have higher numbers? On your second point about the violence. The protests in France started out as peaceful and only seem to turn violent when they are met by police with batons, tear gas, water cannons, etc, did you consider for one moment it may be the aggressive actions of the police which is fuelling the violence? Load of bollocks - they are now losing the sympathy of the people! Those "honest protesters" don't want anything to do with the "mob". Doesn't seem like they are losing sympathy from the people judging by the footage on the news last night. Macron was greeted by a chorus of BOOS when he returned from the G20 in Argentina to Inspect the damage in Paris. Also I only cited 1 poll that showed 75% support for the protests, the BBC reported last night a number of polls (plural) now show support for the protests. " Even though you don't like polls that don't support you I feel obliged to ask if the polls also asked do the public support the trashing of national monuments and the police being in hospital as a result of the protests? There in lies a different result i would think.. | |||
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"There's a lovely video by some school girls who videod some plain clothes CRS getting equipment out of a police van to then infiltrate the gilet Jaune. This is being viewed and believed an agitation ploy to lead protestor astray. See and believe with your own eyes people.... This happens on a regular basis, we all know about sting operations! We not dealing with honest operatives here. Believe what you will, everything is manipulated to keep the people down and at heel. The media will spin and spin a story all they like to suit their paymasters agenda. Say what you like, think what you like, feel what ever it is you feel. What is unfolding is real and this is how civil war begins. France is a Republic, look what a Republic is meant to be and what it is being run as today, that is not a Republic. I think there you will find your answers, as this is where the grassroots want to return to from the sentiments spoken. The people would like a true democratic Republic. " The problems are the same the world over - the difference between rich and poor has widened considerably. Whether your left, right or centre the solutions are not easy. Multinationals rule the world and therefore it doesn't matter who's in charge it won't change because they look after themselves first. | |||
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"There's a lovely video by some school girls who videod some plain clothes CRS getting equipment out of a police van to then infiltrate the gilet Jaune. This is being viewed and believed an agitation ploy to lead protestor astray. See and believe with your own eyes people.... This happens on a regular basis, we all know about sting operations! We not dealing with honest operatives here. Believe what you will, everything is manipulated to keep the people down and at heel. The media will spin and spin a story all they like to suit their paymasters agenda. Say what you like, think what you like, feel what ever it is you feel. What is unfolding is real and this is how civil war begins. France is a Republic, look what a Republic is meant to be and what it is being run as today, that is not a Republic. I think there you will find your answers, as this is where the grassroots want to return to from the sentiments spoken. The people would like a true democratic Republic. " Get off your high horse What outcome are you seeking anyway? | |||
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"There's a lovely video by some school girls who videod some plain clothes CRS getting equipment out of a police van to then infiltrate the gilet Jaune. This is being viewed and believed an agitation ploy to lead protestor astray. See and believe with your own eyes people.... This happens on a regular basis, we all know about sting operations! We not dealing with honest operatives here. Believe what you will, everything is manipulated to keep the people down and at heel. The media will spin and spin a story all they like to suit their paymasters agenda. Say what you like, think what you like, feel what ever it is you feel. What is unfolding is real and this is how civil war begins. France is a Republic, look what a Republic is meant to be and what it is being run as today, that is not a Republic. I think there you will find your answers, as this is where the grassroots want to return to from the sentiments spoken. The people would like a true democratic Republic. Get off your high horse What outcome are you seeking anyway?" What high horse ???? | |||
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"There's a lovely video by some school girls who videod some plain clothes CRS getting equipment out of a police van to then infiltrate the gilet Jaune. This is being viewed and believed an agitation ploy to lead protestor astray. See and believe with your own eyes people.... This happens on a regular basis, we all know about sting operations! We not dealing with honest operatives here. Believe what you will, everything is manipulated to keep the people down and at heel. The media will spin and spin a story all they like to suit their paymasters agenda. Say what you like, think what you like, feel what ever it is you feel. What is unfolding is real and this is how civil war begins. France is a Republic, look what a Republic is meant to be and what it is being run as today, that is not a Republic. I think there you will find your answers, as this is where the grassroots want to return to from the sentiments spoken. The people would like a true democratic Republic. Get off your high horse What outcome are you seeking anyway?What high horse ????" Black beauty | |||
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"What do you want ? ...cheap fuel!..ok now fuck off home Short term offers will always satisfy the electorate... Well Played.... " | |||
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"I'll give you 2-1 they don't go home "100-1 we see Macron's head in a Guillotine. | |||
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"I'll give you 2-1 they don't go home
100-1 we see Macron's head in a Guillotine. "You really are a sad petty man | |||
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"I'll give you 2-1 they don't go home
100-1 we see Macron's head in a Guillotine.
You really are a sad petty man "He's good for a laugh | |||
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"True...but it's no laughing matter that plenty of people hold such clearly demented entrenched views. " Really .Joe cox was the wake up call. That told us we are now dealing with violent nationalism in this country.I bet you if brexit becomes no brexit these fantatics will attempt to kill and slaughter innocents again .  | |||
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"True...but it's no laughing matter that plenty of people hold such clearly demented entrenched views. Really .Joe cox was the wake up call. That told us we are now dealing with violent nationalism in this country.I bet you if brexit becomes no brexit these fantatics will attempt to kill and slaughter innocents again . "Probably | |||
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"I'll give you 2-1 they don't go home "Looks like your bet was a good one Albert, and the protesters have not gone home. They'll be out again this weekend. | |||
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"What do you want ? ...cheap fuel!..ok now fuck off home Short term offers will always satisfy the electorate... Well Played.... "Well played by Macron eh? Looks like the people want more than just cheap fuel now and they're not going home. Macron's offer of dropping his tax increases has not satisfied the electorate. | |||
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"What do you want ? ...cheap fuel!..ok now fuck off home Short term offers will always satisfy the electorate... Well Played....
Well played by Macron eh?
Looks like the people want more than just cheap fuel now and they're not going home.
Macron's offer of dropping his tax increases has not satisfied the electorate. "What do they want Centaur? | |||
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"Anyone else find it hypocritical when a French government "cracks down" on a political protest?" It’s not hypocritical but it is short-sighted. The french have a republican tradition at heart and care enough about their nation to rebel against authority and riot for their principles. We don’t have the same belief in the right to protest in this country which some might say is why we get all hot and bothered that the french don’t play by the rules and treat us with a certain disdain. We belittle their earnestness and take the piss out of them but they care more for their nation than we appear to for ours. | |||
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"Anyone else find it hypocritical when a French government "cracks down" on a political protest?" Previous governments have given way really quickly to protests like this Its a tradition in France to do this sort of thing.Well it has been since 1789 when they stormed the Bastille. Macron came to power on a promise of cracking down on such protests,and no longer being held to ransom by those who Man the barricades . | |||
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"Anyone else find it hypocritical when a French government "cracks down" on a political protest? It’s not hypocritical but it is short-sighted. The french have a republican tradition at heart and care enough about their nation to rebel against authority and riot for their principles. We don’t have the same belief in the right to protest in this country which some might say is why we get all hot and bothered that the french don’t play by the rules and treat us with a certain disdain. We belittle their earnestness and take the piss out of them but they care more for their nation than we appear to for ours. " Do they get called fascist for being nationalistic like brits do? (Apart from the Scottish obviously.) | |||
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"What do you want ? ...cheap fuel!..ok now fuck off home Short term offers will always satisfy the electorate... Well Played....
Well played by Macron eh?
Looks like the people want more than just cheap fuel now and they're not going home.
Macron's offer of dropping his tax increases has not satisfied the electorate.
What do they want Centaur?"I'd say a good number of them want to see Macron resign. A good number of them also want further tax reductions in other areas, and for the working class to get a better deal, as opposed to the arrogant, political elite like Macron who are completely out of touch with ordinary people while he laps up the gravy train sitting in luxury in his ivory towers. | |||
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"What do you want ? ...cheap fuel!..ok now fuck off home Short term offers will always satisfy the electorate... Well Played....
Well played by Macron eh?
Looks like the people want more than just cheap fuel now and they're not going home.
Macron's offer of dropping his tax increases has not satisfied the electorate.
What do they want Centaur?
I'd say a good number of them want to see Macron resign. A good number of them also want further tax reductions in other areas, and for the working class to get a better deal, as opposed to the arrogant, political elite like Macron who are completely out of touch with ordinary people while he laps up the gravy train sitting in luxury in his ivory towers. "Well said comrade Centaur.. Your socialism is slowly coming to the fore.. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"What do you want ? ...cheap fuel!..ok now fuck off home Short term offers will always satisfy the electorate... Well Played....
Well played by Macron eh?
Looks like the people want more than just cheap fuel now and they're not going home.
Macron's offer of dropping his tax increases has not satisfied the electorate.
What do they want Centaur?
I'd say a good number of them want to see Macron resign. A good number of them also want further tax reductions in other areas, and for the working class to get a better deal, as opposed to the arrogant, political elite like Macron who are completely out of touch with ordinary people while he laps up the gravy train sitting in luxury in his ivory towers. "#bitterandtwisted | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"What do you want ? ...cheap fuel!..ok now fuck off home Short term offers will always satisfy the electorate... Well Played....
Well played by Macron eh?
Looks like the people want more than just cheap fuel now and they're not going home.
Macron's offer of dropping his tax increases has not satisfied the electorate.
What do they want Centaur?
I'd say a good number of them want to see Macron resign. A good number of them also want further tax reductions in other areas, and for the working class to get a better deal, as opposed to the arrogant, political elite like Macron who are completely out of touch with ordinary people while he laps up the gravy train sitting in luxury in his ivory towers.
Well said comrade Centaur..
Your socialism is slowly coming to the fore.. "It can also be called Populism. If you agree then I'm glad to see you are coming round to the Populist way of thinking. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"What do you want ? ...cheap fuel!..ok now fuck off home Short term offers will always satisfy the electorate... Well Played....
Well played by Macron eh?
Looks like the people want more than just cheap fuel now and they're not going home.
Macron's offer of dropping his tax increases has not satisfied the electorate.
What do they want Centaur?
I'd say a good number of them want to see Macron resign. A good number of them also want further tax reductions in other areas, and for the working class to get a better deal, as opposed to the arrogant, political elite like Macron who are completely out of touch with ordinary people while he laps up the gravy train sitting in luxury in his ivory towers.
Well said comrade Centaur..
Your socialism is slowly coming to the fore..
It can also be called Populism. If you agree then I'm glad to see you are coming round to the Populist way of thinking. "Mother of all assumptions and cop outs is 'if'.. Espousing good labour policies is fine, own it.. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"What do you want ? ...cheap fuel!..ok now fuck off home Short term offers will always satisfy the electorate... Well Played....
Well played by Macron eh?
Looks like the people want more than just cheap fuel now and they're not going home.
Macron's offer of dropping his tax increases has not satisfied the electorate.
What do they want Centaur?
I'd say a good number of them want to see Macron resign. A good number of them also want further tax reductions in other areas, and for the working class to get a better deal, as opposed to the arrogant, political elite like Macron who are completely out of touch with ordinary people while he laps up the gravy train sitting in luxury in his ivory towers.
#bitterandtwisted
"You are the one who is bitter and twisted. Face it your dream of Macron being a uniting figure for France and the wider EU has completely died over the last 3 weeks with these protests. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"What do you want ? ...cheap fuel!..ok now fuck off home Short term offers will always satisfy the electorate... Well Played....
Well played by Macron eh?
Looks like the people want more than just cheap fuel now and they're not going home.
Macron's offer of dropping his tax increases has not satisfied the electorate.
What do they want Centaur?
I'd say a good number of them want to see Macron resign. A good number of them also want further tax reductions in other areas, and for the working class to get a better deal, as opposed to the arrogant, political elite like Macron who are completely out of touch with ordinary people while he laps up the gravy train sitting in luxury in his ivory towers.
#bitterandtwisted
You are the one who is bitter and twisted. Face it your dream of Macron being a uniting figure for France and the wider EU has completely died over the last 3 weeks with these protests. "Wasn't aware there have been protests across the EU in relation to Macrons internal policies.. Who knew.. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"What do you want ? ...cheap fuel!..ok now fuck off home Short term offers will always satisfy the electorate... Well Played....
Well played by Macron eh?
Looks like the people want more than just cheap fuel now and they're not going home.
Macron's offer of dropping his tax increases has not satisfied the electorate.
What do they want Centaur?
I'd say a good number of them want to see Macron resign. A good number of them also want further tax reductions in other areas, and for the working class to get a better deal, as opposed to the arrogant, political elite like Macron who are completely out of touch with ordinary people while he laps up the gravy train sitting in luxury in his ivory towers.
#bitterandtwisted
You are the one who is bitter and twisted. Face it your dream of Macron being a uniting figure for France and the wider EU has completely died over the last 3 weeks with these protests.
Wasn't aware there have been protests across the EU in relation to Macrons internal policies..
Who knew.. "Europhiles all over Europe hailed Macron as a saviour of the EU, he was painted as a pro EU centrist voice who won against a sea of populism, and who would be a positive and uniting voice for the EU when he came to power. We even saw British Europhiles saying these things on here when Macron was elected. Who wants to be associated with him now? His own people are turning against him in France, I'm very confident he'll be out the door come the next election (that is if he doesn't resign first). Rather than being a uniting force he has become a figure of division in France. The idea that he can be a uniting figure for the EU has also died with it. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"What do you want ? ...cheap fuel!..ok now fuck off home Short term offers will always satisfy the electorate... Well Played....
Well played by Macron eh?
Looks like the people want more than just cheap fuel now and they're not going home.
Macron's offer of dropping his tax increases has not satisfied the electorate.
What do they want Centaur?
I'd say a good number of them want to see Macron resign. A good number of them also want further tax reductions in other areas, and for the working class to get a better deal, as opposed to the arrogant, political elite like Macron who are completely out of touch with ordinary people while he laps up the gravy train sitting in luxury in his ivory towers.
#bitterandtwisted
You are the one who is bitter and twisted. Face it your dream of Macron being a uniting figure for France and the wider EU has completely died over the last 3 weeks with these protests. "Act your age, not your show size. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"What do you want ? ...cheap fuel!..ok now fuck off home Short term offers will always satisfy the electorate... Well Played....
Well played by Macron eh?
Looks like the people want more than just cheap fuel now and they're not going home.
Macron's offer of dropping his tax increases has not satisfied the electorate.
What do they want Centaur?
I'd say a good number of them want to see Macron resign. A good number of them also want further tax reductions in other areas, and for the working class to get a better deal, as opposed to the arrogant, political elite like Macron who are completely out of touch with ordinary people while he laps up the gravy train sitting in luxury in his ivory towers.
#bitterandtwisted
You are the one who is bitter and twisted. Face it your dream of Macron being a uniting figure for France and the wider EU has completely died over the last 3 weeks with these protests.
Act your age, not your show size."Is that the best you can do? Did you mean shoe size instead of show size? You couldn't even get that right. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"What do you want ? ...cheap fuel!..ok now fuck off home Short term offers will always satisfy the electorate... Well Played....
Well played by Macron eh?
Looks like the people want more than just cheap fuel now and they're not going home.
Macron's offer of dropping his tax increases has not satisfied the electorate.
What do they want Centaur?
I'd say a good number of them want to see Macron resign. A good number of them also want further tax reductions in other areas, and for the working class to get a better deal, as opposed to the arrogant, political elite like Macron who are completely out of touch with ordinary people while he laps up the gravy train sitting in luxury in his ivory towers.
Well said comrade Centaur..
Your socialism is slowly coming to the fore.. "I've got no problem being called comrade. George Galloway called fellow Brexiters and Populists comrade during the EU referendum in 2016. Sometimes left and right come together for the greater good like they did in the 1930's to see the back of Hitler and the Nazis, then again to see the back of the EU in 2016 with the Brexit vote, and how they are coming together now in France to see the back of Macron. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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