FabSwingers.com forum: Democracy

By *lem-H-Fandango OP Man
over a year ago

salisbury

I think we've proved it doesn't work. What's next?

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Democracy hasn't failed. Our politicians have.

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By *ab_SparklesWoman
over a year ago

sparkle Surprised

Would you actually call them that, more likely puppets on a string, it's the lifestyle that they run to not for the good of the nation. When any election looms they crawl out with promises and once secure again don't care.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

That's my point, really.

They made false claims, promised things that were not in their control to deliver.

They raised expectations of things that not be delivered.

Now, when the chickens come home to roost, they flail like a beached whale, clueless and utterly out their depth.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The democracy we have matches the requirements of the population at present.

The brexit we seem to be getting now is an excellent example of our democracy at work It seems the brexiters are now the moaners.Probably the wrong flavour of brexit .

You won get the fuck over it.

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By *lem-H-Fandango OP Man
over a year ago

salisbury

This wasn't just about brexit. I mean democracy doesn't work. It's time to change.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"This wasn't just about brexit. I mean democracy doesn't work. It's time to change. "

Give what you consider a better alternative and we can then compare the pros and cons of each.

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By *lem-H-Fandango OP Man
over a year ago

salisbury

"This wasn't just about brexit. I mean democracy doesn't work. It's time to change.

Give what you consider a better alternative and we can then compare the pros and cons of each.

I've no idea.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

[Removed by poster at 18/11/18 14:48:56]

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"This wasn't just about brexit. I mean democracy doesn't work. It's time to change.

Give what you consider a better alternative and we can then compare the pros and cons of each.

I've no idea. "

Well then, in the light of the whole BREXIT clusterfuck, don't you think we should know what the real alternatives are before we decide to ditch what we've already got.

"Things Don't Always Get Better" - sung to the same tune as D. Team's similar titled song.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

D: Ream.

What a tune!

Saw them some years later in basement of Polo Lounge in Glasgow.

Brian Cox, the astro physicist on the telly, played keyboards.

Cant remember if he played when I saw them, or whether he was on telly by then.

What a tune!

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"D: Ream.

What a tune!

Saw them some years later in basement of Polo Lounge in Glasgow.

Brian Cox, the astro physicist on the telly, played keyboards.

Cant remember if he played when I saw them, or whether he was on telly by then.

What a tune!"

Shame it will forever be tainted and linked to Tony Blair's Labour party.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"D: Ream.

What a tune!

Saw them some years later in basement of Polo Lounge in Glasgow.

Brian Cox, the astro physicist on the telly, played keyboards.

Cant remember if he played when I saw them, or whether he was on telly by then.

What a tune!

Shame it will forever be tainted and linked to Tony Blair's Labour party. "

That really is such a sad comment. I do wonder about your psychological wellbeing sometimes. You really need to chill a little on somethings.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What a load of rubbish. It's working perfectly. Just because it's not producing a decisive outcome like everyone thinks and hopes it would do they are all throwing their teddy's out of the pram.

Let's just analyse it. We had a hung parliament in 2010 as the electorate couldn't make their minds up. In 2015 David Cameron promised us a vote on EU membership which he honoured and lost. The referendum produced a very inconclusive result with near 50 -50 split. This was reflected in the again hung parliament of the 2017 election. I ask how on earth would a proportional representation vote generate anything different. If anything the chances of endless coalition governments is even worse. Nope........ I think it's working perfectly and totally reflects the chaotic state of peoples views on this issue which was obvious from the start it would be.

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By *lem-H-Fandango OP Man
over a year ago

salisbury

"What a load of rubbish. It's working perfectly. Just because it's not producing a decisive outcome like everyone thinks and hopes it would do they are all throwing their teddy's out of the pram.

Yeah, I don't think PR is the answer, unless you want to end up with a right wing leader.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

It is the hierarchal system we have whereby only a minority of the votes cast in a constituency - usually - count towards anything beyond the boundary of the constituency.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What a load of rubbish. It's working perfectly. Just because it's not producing a decisive outcome like everyone thinks and hopes it would do they are all throwing their teddy's out of the pram.

Yeah, I don't think PR is the answer, unless you want to end up with a right wing leader. "

Why not make decisions for our society not on emotions or personal political power but on empirical evidence and the scientific method.

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By *lem-H-Fandango OP Man
over a year ago

salisbury

India seems to be successful at the moment. Which system do they use?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What do we want?

Gradual change!

When do we want it?

In due course!

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By *lem-H-Fandango OP Man
over a year ago

salisbury

Do you think Corbyns socialist Britain could work? Obviously brexit will help.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"Do you think Corbyns socialist Britain could work? Obviously brexit will help."

Good God man! You've just ruined my lovely Sunday afternoon.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

If you look back the past 20 or 30 years, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland have all modernised their democratic instutions and reformed their voting systems.

The only country not to do so is England. It remains bound to archaic and hierarchal structures that concentrate power, wealth and influence with a small radius of the Palace of Westminster.

The voting system for parliamentarians, for example, worked well perhaps when news was delivered by horse and cart to a minority who could read or write.

Now we have a predominantly English phenomenon called Brexit - the proverbial two-fingers at the establishment for being out of touch.

Yet the greatest irony of its delivery (or not) is how much it hinges on things outside England’s control - the border in Ireland and the political goodwill of the DUP.

English people give me an impression of caring little or nought about those parts of the Union that have reformed through devolution, and even less understanding of the different political dynamics and nuances at work there.

In that sense, England is trapped by its past and a seeming unwillingess to change and reform domestically, perhaps out of fear of the ugly side of English nationalism.

Fear is not a good maker of policy, however. Inertia creates vacuums that are fertile places for demagogues.

Might the time be ripe for a modernisation of the UK in general and England in particular?

A recalibration of the constitution and the advent of federalism - four autonmous nations who come together for issues of mutual interest, eg defence, foreign affairs etc?

The civic structure of the UK as it stands is a mess.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Democracy would be a lot more effective here if we ditched the first past the post elections and replaced them with proportional representation. We also need to ditch the upper house and introduce a fully devolved English parliament in its place.

Political equality itz...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Democracy would be a lot more effective here if we ditched the first past the post elections and replaced them with proportional representation. We also need to ditch the upper house and introduce a fully devolved English parliament in its place.

Political equality itz..."

Neither Labour nor Tory party are ever going to agree to PR! It's not in their favour - So never happen!

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

Political equality itz..."

More bullshit...

In reality there is nothing wrong with the first past the post system.

What is wrong with our democratic system is twofold and linked:

Firstly there is no requirement for all eligible to vote to vote, and secondly there is no way to vote to NOT elect anyone to office.

As it is the system is rigged in favour of politicians and it is in the interests of politicians to turn people off voting (the less that vote the more those elected can get away with manipulating the system) and it is not in their collective interests to give an option of voting for 'none of them'.

Just by adding the option of 'none of them' to every ballot and making not voting a criminal offence with an automatic £1000 fine and 100 hours community service (without real extenuating circumstances) one would force elected officials to represent their electorates interests rather than party or personal (whoever is paying the most for the vote) interests first.

But hey. What do I know about such things? It's the voting system that's wrong not the fact that between 1 in 4 and 1 in 2 don't vote is the problem...

Yea right!

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By *agermeisterMan
over a year ago

Leeds

One could argue that in order to avert climate catastrophe then we need a more authoritarian anti-capitalist government.

But we all love our lifestyle that contributes to climate change. So we won't vote for that until it's way too late.

So perhaps revolution or mass civil disobedience is the way forward

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"One could argue that in order to avert climate catastrophe then we need a more authoritarian anti-capitalist government.

But we all love our lifestyle that contributes to climate change. So we won't vote for that until it's way too late.

So perhaps revolution or mass civil disobedience is the way forward "

I am of the belief that just such a new world order will be forced upon mankind to preserve the species and a habitable planet.

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By *lbert_shlossedMan
over a year ago

Manchester

I don't think democracy has failed.

We took a vote it went one way and we're working to implement what people voted for.

I think some people need to get a grip.

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By *ittleAcornMan
over a year ago

visiting the beach

I think the issue has led to do with our system of democracy (which could do with a revamp), and more to do with the quality of our politicians.

To many see it as a career choice, rather than a chance to actually work at improving things for their constituencies.

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

"One could argue that in order to avert climate catastrophe then we need a more authoritarian anti-capitalist government.

But we all love our lifestyle that contributes to climate change. So we won't vote for that until it's way too late.

So perhaps revolution or mass civil disobedience is the way forward "

Time to reread Animal Farm...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What we need is a nice pandemic like the flu of 1918 - that’ll make the population smaller and give us plenty of housing without having to build anew

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What we need is a nice pandemic like the flu of 1918 - that’ll make the population smaller and give us plenty of housing without having to build anew "

Pandemics are inevitable but that won't make much of a dent in the population.

Population isn't really the problem.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"Democracy hasn't failed. Our politicians have."
Probably a bit of both but when it comes to brexit yes our politions have let us down,they should all be kicked out,at least Msy has tried.better than the other 600 self righteous,self serving so called MP's

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Democracy hasn't failed. Our politicians have.Probably a bit of both but when it comes to brexit yes our politions have let us down,they should all be kicked out,at least Msy has tried.better than the other 600 self righteous,self serving so called MP's"

Has she tried though? This deal is so bad it looks like Theresa May has conspired with the EU to keep us in.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"What we need is a nice pandemic like the flu of 1918 - that’ll make the population smaller and give us plenty of housing without having to build anew "

haven't we been promised one of those for a while..... wasn't it supposed to be some sort of bird flu, or mad cow, or ebola.....

its like a real life game of plague inc on my mobile!

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

It has worked but the remainders won't accept it.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

I am of the belief that just such a new world order will be forced upon mankind to preserve the species and a habitable planet."

We are going in the opposite direction at the moment - a retreat into nationalism and "me, me, me" - rather than any sort of global perspective.

Climate change will accelerate the migration of people from Africa and Asia towards Europe and America.

Where do 165 million Bangladeshis go when their country is the first to be inundated by the sea?

Will we send boats to pick them up, or build walls to keep them out?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Political equality itz...

More bullshit...

In reality there is nothing wrong with the first past the post system.

What is wrong with our democratic system is twofold and linked:

Firstly there is no requirement for all eligible to vote to vote, and secondly there is no way to vote to NOT elect anyone to office.

But hey. What do I know about such things? It's the voting system that's wrong not the fact that between 1 in 4 and 1 in 2 don't vote is the problem...

Yea right!

So we force people to vote whether they want to vote or believe in the system or the politicians available?

That is the real bullshit!

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"So we force people to vote whether they want to vote or believe in the system or the politicians available?

That is the real bullshit!"

Yes, we force people to vote! And if they don't believe in the system or the politicians they vote NONE OF THEM!

And guess what, when NONE OF THEM wins half the seats NONE of them get to form a government and ride the gravy train. Very quickly the rest of them work out who they work for and set about engaging everyone in our democracy.

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By *lem-H-Fandango OP Man
over a year ago

salisbury

Has she tried though? This deal is so bad it looks like Theresa May has conspired with the EU to keep us in. "

You shouldn't be surprised, the Tories don't want us to leave.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"It has worked but the remainders won't accept it."

Then it hasn't actually worked.

Anyway it's not so much the Remainers that aren't willing to accept it now, it's more the winging Leavers that won't accept it.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

Has she tried though? This deal is so bad it looks like Theresa May has conspired with the EU to keep us in.

You shouldn't be surprised, the Tories don't want us to leave. "

Plus ca change....

You'd almost think that it was some sort of diversionary tactic so that the government could continue it's campaign of austerity....

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By *lem-H-Fandango OP Man
over a year ago

salisbury

"It has worked but the remainders won't accept it.

Then it hasn't actually worked.

Anyway it's not so much the Remainers that aren't willing to accept it now, it's more the winging Leavers that won't accept it.

We're in a much better position now. No bargaining power, and we can never leave.

bring on the US of Eu.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Deluded to think that the general population has any sense to make informal decesions on how any country should be ran within the 4 years we hold elections.

A type of dictatorship with a council of members made up of those in the top of their respective fields voted by their peers should run the country.

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By *lem-H-Fandango OP Man
over a year ago

salisbury

"Deluded to think that the general population has any sense to make informal decesions on how any country should be ran within the 4 years we hold elections.

A type of dictatorship with a council of members made up of those in the top of their respective fields voted by their peers should run the country.

Something like Russia, but less mental.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't understand why anyone believes that someone who has made a career out of being a politician who has no real life experience in the positions they have been appointed are capable of making successful policies in regards to how that section of society should be ran.

A group of 12 of the best from that field should vote for a 13th and they should decide policies take education as an example or the medical profession.

I like Putin in the sense that he will go into a company and say you either make this work for the best interests of the country or we take over it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 19/11/18 23:38:33]

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"It has worked but the remainders won't accept it.

Then it hasn't actually worked.

Anyway it's not so much the Remainers that aren't willing to accept it now, it's more the winging Leavers that won't accept it.

We're in a much better position now. No bargaining power, and we can never leave.

bring on the US of Eu."

Which is exactly the sort of deal I and many other Remainers have been saying is the only sort of BREXIT deal available and that we could or would get, since the start of the referendum campaign.

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By *lem-H-Fandango OP Man
over a year ago

salisbury

"It has worked but the remainders won't accept it.

Then it hasn't actually worked.

Anyway it's not so much the Remainers that aren't willing to accept it now, it's more the winging Leavers that won't accept it.

We're in a much better position now. No bargaining power, and we can never leave.

bring on the US of Eu.

Which is exactly the sort of deal I and many other Remainers have been saying is the only sort of BREXIT deal available and that we could or would get, since the start of the referendum campaign.

Yep, we've played directly into the Tories hands. The money machine will get bigger and stronger as the workers get paid less and less...

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