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"So not in any way the fault of the thousands of 18-24 year old" no | |||
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"So not in any way the fault of the thousands of 18-24 year old that were far too busy on Facebook ect to get off thier asses and vote and then moan about the result then ? If they had bothered the be result may well have been a lot different " I don’t think there are official stats but I thought the youth estimate was revised upwards to be more like another age groups. The original stat was based on “normal” voting turnout and so was flawed. | |||
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"Benefit is going to happen so just get on with it! It will probably be a no deal withdrawal agreement and a no future proposal on an FTA. The possibility of a second referendum unlikely because of tribal divisions in politics as opposed to what is good for the country. Extension on A50 - unlikely that all 27 would agree to that based on the current situation. So 29/3 is "liberation" day - or maybe that should be 30th? So let's see the UK now prepare for the break - I mean physical preparation as opposed to a load of emails. Let's see the WTO schedule approved - come on Dr Fox deliver and do it now! Come on let's get all the current regulatory bodies of the EU replicated by UK ones. We want aircraft flying etc etc - let's spend the money to ensure we have all the necessary functions functioning! " Is wto a possibility ? I think centy said the Irish border has to be porous, which wto doesn’t allow. | |||
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"As the latest attempt by the rabid nationalists (AKA BREXITERS) to sell their country, it's economic well being and it's people down the river just to wave the flag, stand on the white cliffs and stick two fingers up to Johnny Foreigner seems to be foundering in the face of reality some may think we can start to heave a sigh of relief, but they're wrong. The madness which caused BREXIT is still very much alive and will remain with us for years, possibly decades and beyond. BREXITERS believe the failure of BREXIT is the fault of the EU, Theresa May, the treasury, Remainers or anything rather than what it really is; the fault and ultimate failure of BREXIT is BREXIT itself. It's simply not, and never was, deliverable as sold. But to admit so the rabid nationalists would have to admit they were either wrong or fooled and they'll never admit that. Be ready for angry nationalist, they're organising and there coming and they've even less time and more hate for those of us who've stood up for what we believe to be right and best for our country than they have for Johnny Foreigner. Unfortunately this is not going to end anytime soon. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/11/brexiteers-livid-bloody-fight-bruges-group-conference-brexit " that’s what we need anoother moan about brexit never to much never to much never to much lol | |||
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"BREXIT hasn’t happened yet, so how can it have failed? If you mean the “deal with the EU” but, I couldn’t care less. A no deal exit and true independence. Bring it on "True. Brexit *will* succeed in that in 19 weeks we will be out. And the destruction of our trading partnerships, economy, social cohesion, and reputation in the world, which is what Brexiteers votes for will be complete. And don’t bother telling me that isn’t not what they voted for, as you have just as little idea what they voted for as I do or what they did. As there wasn’t anything to actually vote on. So my opinion on it is just as valid as yours. -Matt | |||
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"So not in any way the fault of the thousands of 18-24 year old that were far too busy on Facebook ect to get off thier asses and vote and then moan about the result then ? If they had bothered the be result may well have been a lot different " Aaaaaand we are on to victim blaming. Leavers just can’t stop and put their hand up and say “sorry, we were idiots”. -Matt | |||
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"It’s going to happen, and it’s gonna be great!  "hope is not a strategy 
Serious question, what will we feel that is different which will be great ? | |||
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"It’s going to happen, and it’s gonna be great! "It's not though is it , it is going to be genuine chaos and a great deal of trouble For a great number of normal people | |||
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"It’s going to happen, and it’s gonna be great! hope is not a strategy
Serious question, what will we feel that is different which will be great ? "C’mon, everyone knows blue passports taste better than red ones! -Matt | |||
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"You do post some shit,Doglead crack pot " At least the contribution has content that illicit meaningful responses. Your contribution quality to any thread is virtually meaningless other than to have a go at the poster. | |||
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"It’s going to happen, and it’s gonna be great! hope is not a strategy
Serious question, what will we feel that is different which will be great ? "I'm waiting for an answer to this too. Think we'll be here for a while.  | |||
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"It’s going to happen, and it’s gonna be great! "You’re half right. | |||
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"It’s going to happen, and it’s gonna be great! "Of course itll be great....a great fuckup | |||
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"BREXIT hasn’t happened yet, so how can it have failed? If you mean the “deal with the EU” but, I couldn’t care less. A no deal exit and true independence. Bring it on "People like you would have seen the iceberg from the deck of the Titanic and claimed it was fake news. Wake up: a no deal brexit will be a shitstorm | |||
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"BREXIT hasn’t happened yet, so how can it have failed? If you mean the “deal with the EU” but, I couldn’t care less. A no deal exit and true independence. Bring it on
People like you would have seen the iceberg from the deck of the Titanic and claimed it was fake news. Wake up: a no deal brexit will be a shitstorm"Anyone who knows the full story of Titanic knows only too well that if they hadn't seen the iceberg and hit it head on, then the ship would have been damaged but would have stayed afloat. By trying to dodge it they struck it with a glancing blow down the starboard side which damaged it beyond salvation. Sometimes head on is the best way to face things. | |||
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"Benefit is going to happen so just get on with it! It will probably be a no deal withdrawal agreement and a no future proposal on an FTA. The possibility of a second referendum unlikely because of tribal divisions in politics as opposed to what is good for the country. Extension on A50 - unlikely that all 27 would agree to that based on the current situation. So 29/3 is "liberation" day - or maybe that should be 30th? So let's see the UK now prepare for the break - I mean physical preparation as opposed to a load of emails. Let's see the WTO schedule approved - come on Dr Fox deliver and do it now! Come on let's get all the current regulatory bodies of the EU replicated by UK ones. We want aircraft flying etc etc - let's spend the money to ensure we have all the necessary functions functioning! Is wto a possibility ? I think centy said the Irish border has to be porous, which wto doesn’t allow. " Didn't Jacob Rees Mogg say after his meeting with Michel Barnier (which would suggest Barnier agreed) that both the UK and the EU could seek an agreement on the Irish border from the WTO because of the unique circumstances surrounding the Good Friday agreement which exist no where else in the world. | |||
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"OP, many if not nearly all of those who voted to leave the EU and still support it 100% (I do not include the brexit sales team of Farage, BoJo, DD, JRM et al in this) are displaying the typical reaction of older people to being informed that they have been the subject of a confidence trick and swindled out of part of their life savings. That is to refuse to believe that the Nigerian and the millions he is going to send does not exist and to double down and send him the next instalment when the email arrives saying that said prince has hit a problem and by sending another 100/1000/10000 £ to bongo bongo land they will be rewarded. Of course as always when reality becomes undeniable, the bad news is blamed on the messenger who should have done more to stop the and protect those scammed, after all how were they to know all the warnings of impending disaster were right? Nobody can predict the future, right? Anyone got any really great wheezes for further impoverishing the majority of the country and world? The Tories know a guy who has a 'suckers list' and for a reasonable fee will send all those on the list personalised messages that will get them to invest in your scam or stop them uniting to stop your scam. Anyone for a little data analytics's?" Said by someone who voted leave, lol. As always Will, your vote for Brexit which helped Leave to win was much appreciated. | |||
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"Didn't Jacob Rees Mogg say after his meeting with Michel Barnier (which would suggest Barnier agreed) that both the UK and the EU could seek an agreement on the Irish border from the WTO because of the unique circumstances surrounding the Good Friday agreement which exist no where else in the world. " Every one of JRM's utterances is made with the sneering superiority of privilege and position informing the riff raff of their betters pronouncement on whatever the subject may be. Many seem to still labour under the illusion that if he says it it must be so even though he is continually being contradicted by those who hold real power. And funnily enough whenever he is questioned about this and asked when he intends to make a challenge against his leader (or whoever) for power his stock answer is he is a minion and has no ambitions to be anything more than a minion. | |||
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"BREXIT hasn’t happened yet, so how can it have failed? If you mean the “deal with the EU” but, I couldn’t care less. A no deal exit and true independence. Bring it on
People like you would have seen the iceberg from the deck of the Titanic and claimed it was fake news. Wake up: a no deal brexit will be a shitstorm
Anyone who knows the full story of Titanic knows only too well that if they hadn't seen the iceberg and hit it head on, then the ship would have been damaged but would have stayed afloat.
By trying to dodge it they struck it with a glancing blow down the starboard side which damaged it beyond salvation.
Sometimes head on is the best way to face things. "At end of day I think Teresa May has been deck chair re arranger in chief. | |||
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"Said by someone who voted leave, lol. As always Will, your vote for Brexit which helped Leave to win was much appreciated. "So not denying a word I say, just capering around and crowing over the fact I voted to give you what you are demanding. If I were in your position I would not be so quick to gloat. | |||
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"Said by someone who voted leave, lol. As always Will, your vote for Brexit which helped Leave to win was much appreciated.
So not denying a word I say, just capering around and crowing over the fact I voted to give you what you are demanding.
If I were in your position I would not be so quick to gloat. "Every vote counts Will. Thanks once again.  | |||
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"Benefit is going to happen so just get on with it! It will probably be a no deal withdrawal agreement and a no future proposal on an FTA. The possibility of a second referendum unlikely because of tribal divisions in politics as opposed to what is good for the country. Extension on A50 - unlikely that all 27 would agree to that based on the current situation. So 29/3 is "liberation" day - or maybe that should be 30th? So let's see the UK now prepare for the break - I mean physical preparation as opposed to a load of emails. Let's see the WTO schedule approved - come on Dr Fox deliver and do it now! Come on let's get all the current regulatory bodies of the EU replicated by UK ones. We want aircraft flying etc etc - let's spend the money to ensure we have all the necessary functions functioning! Is wto a possibility ? I think centy said the Irish border has to be porous, which wto doesn’t allow. Didn't Jacob Rees Mogg say after his meeting with Michel Barnier (which would suggest Barnier agreed) that both the UK and the EU could seek an agreement on the Irish border from the WTO because of the unique circumstances surrounding the Good Friday agreement which exist no where else in the world. " In fairness, if Jacob Rees Mogg said the moon was made of cheese, or Brexit would be good for the UK or that pigs could fly, you’d believe every word of his inane bullshit. | |||
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"BREXIT hasn’t happened yet, so how can it have failed? If you mean the “deal with the EU” but, I couldn’t care less. A no deal exit and true independence. Bring it on
People like you would have seen the iceberg from the deck of the Titanic and claimed it was fake news. Wake up: a no deal brexit will be a shitstorm
Anyone who knows the full story of Titanic knows only too well that if they hadn't seen the iceberg and hit it head on, then the ship would have been damaged but would have stayed afloat.
By trying to dodge it they struck it with a glancing blow down the starboard side which damaged it beyond salvation.
Sometimes head on is the best way to face things.
At end of day I think Teresa May has been deck chair re arranger in chief."Yep and the first class passengers like JRM will get in all the lifeboats with all their valuables and watch the plebs sink into the cold dark murky depths. | |||
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"Didn't Jacob Rees Mogg say after his meeting with Michel Barnier (which would suggest Barnier agreed) that both the UK and the EU could seek an agreement on the Irish border from the WTO because of the unique circumstances surrounding the Good Friday agreement which exist no where else in the world. Every one of JRM's utterances is made with the sneering superiority of privilege and position informing the riff raff of their betters pronouncement on whatever the subject may be. Many seem to still labour under the illusion that if he says it it must be so even though he is continually being contradicted by those who hold real power. And funnily enough whenever he is questioned about this and asked when he intends to make a challenge against his leader (or whoever) for power his stock answer is he is a minion and has no ambitions to be anything more than a minion." Ah, so you disagree or don't believe what Jacob Rees Mogg said on this then. If that's your position you must also agree that if there is no special treatment or agreement for the UK in the WTO then that also applies equally to the EU and there is no special treatment or agreement for the EU in the WTO. The Irish border is a uk/EU border, Republic of Ireland is a member of the EU and a member of the WTO through its membership of the EU. The EU is a member of the WTO and has to abide by the rules of the WTO just like everyone else in the world. If the Irish border is porus and that is against WTO rules then the EU will be breaking it's obligations to the WTO it agreed to when it joined the WTO. The WTO would have sufficient grounds to suspend or remove the EU from the WTO under those circumstances. This is why I think Jacob Rees Mogg brought this particular issue up with Michel Barnier when they had a meeting in Brussels and would be in both the EU and the UK's interest to seek a special agreement in the WTO on the Irish border because of the unique circumstances surrounding the Good Friday agreement. | |||
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"Didn't Jacob Rees Mogg say after his meeting with Michel Barnier (which would suggest Barnier agreed) that both the UK and the EU could seek an agreement on the Irish border from the WTO because of the unique circumstances surrounding the Good Friday agreement which exist no where else in the world. Every one of JRM's utterances is made with the sneering superiority of privilege and position informing the riff raff of their betters pronouncement on whatever the subject may be. Many seem to still labour under the illusion that if he says it it must be so even though he is continually being contradicted by those who hold real power. And funnily enough whenever he is questioned about this and asked when he intends to make a challenge against his leader (or whoever) for power his stock answer is he is a minion and has no ambitions to be anything more than a minion. Ah, so you disagree or don't believe what Jacob Rees Mogg said on this then. If that's your position you must also agree that if there is no special treatment or agreement for the UK in the WTO then that also applies equally to the EU and there is no special treatment or agreement for the EU in the WTO. The Irish border is a uk/EU border, Republic of Ireland is a member of the EU and a member of the WTO through its membership of the EU. The EU is a member of the WTO and has to abide by the rules of the WTO just like everyone else in the world. If the Irish border is porus and that is against WTO rules then the EU will be breaking it's obligations to the WTO it agreed to when it joined the WTO. The WTO would have sufficient grounds to suspend or remove the EU from the WTO under those circumstances. This is why I think Jacob Rees Mogg brought this particular issue up with Michel Barnier when they had a meeting in Brussels and would be in both the EU and the UK's interest to seek a special agreement in the WTO on the Irish border because of the unique circumstances surrounding the Good Friday agreement. " Whatever happens I hope after nearly 3 years of hype & drama, something bloody drastic & exciting happens when we Brexit | |||
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"Ah, so you disagree or don't believe what Jacob Rees Mogg said on this then. If that's your position you must also agree that if there is no special treatment or agreement for the UK in the WTO then that also applies equally to the EU and there is no special treatment or agreement for the EU in the WTO. The Irish border is a uk/EU border, Republic of Ireland is a member of the EU and a member of the WTO through its membership of the EU. The EU is a member of the WTO and has to abide by the rules of the WTO just like everyone else in the world. If the Irish border is porus and that is against WTO rules then the EU will be breaking it's obligations to the WTO it agreed to when it joined the WTO. The WTO would have sufficient grounds to suspend or remove the EU from the WTO under those circumstances. This is why I think Jacob Rees Mogg brought this particular issue up with Michel Barnier when they had a meeting in Brussels and would be in both the EU and the UK's interest to seek a special agreement in the WTO on the Irish border because of the unique circumstances surrounding the Good Friday agreement. " And so the LAZY brexit dance goes on... Just to be clear, EU AND WTO rules are quite clear that without there being total regulatory alignment there must be a hard border between the North and South of Ireland. We are leaving the EU, not the other way round. As a result it is us who will be breaking the Good Friday Agreement (which is an international legally binding treaty) and it is up to us to find a way to square the British border in Ireland and honer our treaty obligations, not the EU's regardless of how much you with it were the other way round. | |||
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"Ah, so you disagree or don't believe what Jacob Rees Mogg said on this then. If that's your position you must also agree that if there is no special treatment or agreement for the UK in the WTO then that also applies equally to the EU and there is no special treatment or agreement for the EU in the WTO. The Irish border is a uk/EU border, Republic of Ireland is a member of the EU and a member of the WTO through its membership of the EU. The EU is a member of the WTO and has to abide by the rules of the WTO just like everyone else in the world. If the Irish border is porus and that is against WTO rules then the EU will be breaking it's obligations to the WTO it agreed to when it joined the WTO. The WTO would have sufficient grounds to suspend or remove the EU from the WTO under those circumstances. This is why I think Jacob Rees Mogg brought this particular issue up with Michel Barnier when they had a meeting in Brussels and would be in both the EU and the UK's interest to seek a special agreement in the WTO on the Irish border because of the unique circumstances surrounding the Good Friday agreement. And so the LAZY brexit dance goes on... Just to be clear, EU AND WTO rules are quite clear that without there being total regulatory alignment there must be a hard border between the North and South of Ireland. We are leaving the EU, not the other way round. As a result it is us who will be breaking the Good Friday Agreement (which is an international legally binding treaty) and it is up to us to find a way to square the British border in Ireland and honer our treaty obligations, not the EU's regardless of how much you with it were the other way round. " That's complete bollocks Will and you know it. There is NO special treatment for the EU in the WTO. To the WTO the EU is just another member like New Zealand or Indonesia. Therefore if the EU breaks WTO rules you can expect the WTO to act on it just as they would against New Zealand or Indonesia for a breach of the rules. It doesn't matter how much you scream and spit your dummy and kick your feet about it being a UK border, the reality is in the eyes of the WTO after Brexit it will be a uk/EU border and WTO rules will have to be applied to both parties on either side of the border. | |||
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"Benefit is going to happen so just get on with it! It will probably be a no deal withdrawal agreement and a no future proposal on an FTA. The possibility of a second referendum unlikely because of tribal divisions in politics as opposed to what is good for the country. Extension on A50 - unlikely that all 27 would agree to that based on the current situation. So 29/3 is "liberation" day - or maybe that should be 30th? So let's see the UK now prepare for the break - I mean physical preparation as opposed to a load of emails. Let's see the WTO schedule approved - come on Dr Fox deliver and do it now! Come on let's get all the current regulatory bodies of the EU replicated by UK ones. We want aircraft flying etc etc - let's spend the money to ensure we have all the necessary functions functioning! Is wto a possibility ? I think centy said the Irish border has to be porous, which wto doesn’t allow. Didn't Jacob Rees Mogg say after his meeting with Michel Barnier (which would suggest Barnier agreed) that both the UK and the EU could seek an agreement on the Irish border from the WTO because of the unique circumstances surrounding the Good Friday agreement which exist no where else in the world. " I think your assuming too much! Barnier has made his position very clear from the beginning - which basically if the Good Friday Agreement is NOT to be broken - then a customs union needs to be in place. The other option is a border which breaks the GFA! | |||
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"Benefit is going to happen so just get on with it! It will probably be a no deal withdrawal agreement and a no future proposal on an FTA. The possibility of a second referendum unlikely because of tribal divisions in politics as opposed to what is good for the country. Extension on A50 - unlikely that all 27 would agree to that based on the current situation. So 29/3 is "liberation" day - or maybe that should be 30th? So let's see the UK now prepare for the break - I mean physical preparation as opposed to a load of emails. Let's see the WTO schedule approved - come on Dr Fox deliver and do it now! Come on let's get all the current regulatory bodies of the EU replicated by UK ones. We want aircraft flying etc etc - let's spend the money to ensure we have all the necessary functions functioning! Is wto a possibility ? I think centy said the Irish border has to be porous, which wto doesn’t allow. Didn't Jacob Rees Mogg say after his meeting with Michel Barnier (which would suggest Barnier agreed) that both the UK and the EU could seek an agreement on the Irish border from the WTO because of the unique circumstances surrounding the Good Friday agreement which exist no where else in the world. I think your assuming too much! Barnier has made his position very clear from the beginning - which basically if the Good Friday Agreement is NOT to be broken - then a customs union needs to be in place. The other option is a border which breaks the GFA! " Must admit I’ve never seen this position explored before. I do wonder how the WTO would view this. Leaving the customs u ion is not a prerequisite of leaving the Eu. And despite claims, there is no real mandate to do so. It is a choice being made by the uk government above and beyond triggering article 50. So could the wto say, you chose to build a treaty on being in a customs union. If you chose to exit it get so be it. No dispensations here. Or would the look favourably at the Eu (who has no choice) and more harshly on the uk. Is that possible ? If a deal with wto is needed (again we’re in no deal meaning some deal space) shouldn’t we have got cracking? | |||
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"Benefit is going to happen so just get on with it! It will probably be a no deal withdrawal agreement and a no future proposal on an FTA. The possibility of a second referendum unlikely because of tribal divisions in politics as opposed to what is good for the country. Extension on A50 - unlikely that all 27 would agree to that based on the current situation. So 29/3 is "liberation" day - or maybe that should be 30th? So let's see the UK now prepare for the break - I mean physical preparation as opposed to a load of emails. Let's see the WTO schedule approved - come on Dr Fox deliver and do it now! Come on let's get all the current regulatory bodies of the EU replicated by UK ones. We want aircraft flying etc etc - let's spend the money to ensure we have all the necessary functions functioning! Is wto a possibility ? I think centy said the Irish border has to be porous, which wto doesn’t allow. Didn't Jacob Rees Mogg say after his meeting with Michel Barnier (which would suggest Barnier agreed) that both the UK and the EU could seek an agreement on the Irish border from the WTO because of the unique circumstances surrounding the Good Friday agreement which exist no where else in the world. I think your assuming too much! Barnier has made his position very clear from the beginning - which basically if the Good Friday Agreement is NOT to be broken - then a customs union needs to be in place. The other option is a border which breaks the GFA! Must admit I’ve never seen this position explored before. I do wonder how the WTO would view this. Leaving the customs u ion is not a prerequisite of leaving the Eu. And despite claims, there is no real mandate to do so. It is a choice being made by the uk government above and beyond triggering article 50. So could the wto say, you chose to build a treaty on being in a customs union. If you chose to exit it get so be it. No dispensations here. Or would the look favourably at the Eu (who has no choice) and more harshly on the uk. Is that possible ? If a deal with wto is needed (again we’re in no deal meaning some deal space) shouldn’t we have got cracking? " Well the Irish are further on planning wise than the UK who have sent loads of emails out and that's it. The Irish are doing road shows and created funding to aid Irish companies with brexit issues. | |||
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"Can we not just have a cup of tea and tell the other EU countries we’ve thought about it and changed our minds? It will be such a fuss and cause all sorts of mess otherwise. "Yes they could, even the bloke who was involved in drawing up article 50 said it could be cancelled at any time. But you would be fighting against a lot of people who do not want it stopped | |||
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"But you would be fighting against a lot of people who do not want it stopped " so what's new? | |||
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"But you would be fighting against a lot of people who do not want it stopped so what's new?" Nothing I was just adding to the chat | |||
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"But you would be fighting against a lot of people who do not want it stopped so what's new? Nothing I was just adding to the chat " in that case ... fancy brightons chances for the cup? | |||
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"Benefit is going to happen so just get on with it! It will probably be a no deal withdrawal agreement and a no future proposal on an FTA. The possibility of a second referendum unlikely because of tribal divisions in politics as opposed to what is good for the country. Extension on A50 - unlikely that all 27 would agree to that based on the current situation. So 29/3 is "liberation" day - or maybe that should be 30th? So let's see the UK now prepare for the break - I mean physical preparation as opposed to a load of emails. Let's see the WTO schedule approved - come on Dr Fox deliver and do it now! Come on let's get all the current regulatory bodies of the EU replicated by UK ones. We want aircraft flying etc etc - let's spend the money to ensure we have all the necessary functions functioning! Is wto a possibility ? I think centy said the Irish border has to be porous, which wto doesn’t allow. Didn't Jacob Rees Mogg say after his meeting with Michel Barnier (which would suggest Barnier agreed) that both the UK and the EU could seek an agreement on the Irish border from the WTO because of the unique circumstances surrounding the Good Friday agreement which exist no where else in the world. I think your assuming too much! Barnier has made his position very clear from the beginning - which basically if the Good Friday Agreement is NOT to be broken - then a customs union needs to be in place. The other option is a border which breaks the GFA! Must admit I’ve never seen this position explored before. I do wonder how the WTO would view this. Leaving the customs u ion is not a prerequisite of leaving the Eu. And despite claims, there is no real mandate to do so. It is a choice being made by the uk government above and beyond triggering article 50. So could the wto say, you chose to build a treaty on being in a customs union. If you chose to exit it get so be it. No dispensations here. Or would the look favourably at the Eu (who has no choice) and more harshly on the uk. Is that possible ? If a deal with wto is needed (again we’re in no deal meaning some deal space) shouldn’t we have got cracking? " We're leaving the customs union because it was a key point of the official Leave campaign during the referendum in 2016 (being able to do our own trade deals means leaving the customs union). So they do have a mandate for it in that regard. Furthermore it was also in the Conservative party manifesto at the general election to leave the customs union and the tories got more votes and returned more MP's than any other party, so again have a mandate in that regard. Furthermore the House of Commons voted by majority to leave the customs union in the EU Withdrawal bill votes so again have a mandate there. The above 3 combined give more than enough mandate for the government to leave the customs union. Second point about the WTO is, do you really think any country with beef or a grudge against the EU will let the EU get away with having any kind of special treatment? We keep being told by remainers that countries like Russia will block the UK's proposed WTO tariff schedule and thereby block the UK becoming a member of the WTO. This also applies to the EU, in that if the EU is seen in any way to be breaking WTO rules (on the Irish border on the EU's side) after brexit you can fully expect countries like Russia (and I'd add USA in there too because Trump dislikes the EU) to lodge formal complaints against the EU with the WTO for failing to meet its WTO obligations or for breach of WTO rules. The WTO would not be able to ignore those complaints from other countries and would have to act on them. The likes of Russia and the USA could push as far as having the EU either suspended or removed from the WTO. | |||
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"But you would be fighting against a lot of people who do not want it stopped so what's new? Nothing I was just adding to the chat in that case ... fancy brightons chances for the cup?" Nope  | |||
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"Benefit is going to happen so just get on with it! It will probably be a no deal withdrawal agreement and a no future proposal on an FTA. The possibility of a second referendum unlikely because of tribal divisions in politics as opposed to what is good for the country. Extension on A50 - unlikely that all 27 would agree to that based on the current situation. So 29/3 is "liberation" day - or maybe that should be 30th? So let's see the UK now prepare for the break - I mean physical preparation as opposed to a load of emails. Let's see the WTO schedule approved - come on Dr Fox deliver and do it now! Come on let's get all the current regulatory bodies of the EU replicated by UK ones. We want aircraft flying etc etc - let's spend the money to ensure we have all the necessary functions functioning! Is wto a possibility ? I think centy said the Irish border has to be porous, which wto doesn’t allow. Didn't Jacob Rees Mogg say after his meeting with Michel Barnier (which would suggest Barnier agreed) that both the UK and the EU could seek an agreement on the Irish border from the WTO because of the unique circumstances surrounding the Good Friday agreement which exist no where else in the world. I think your assuming too much! Barnier has made his position very clear from the beginning - which basically if the Good Friday Agreement is NOT to be broken - then a customs union needs to be in place. The other option is a border which breaks the GFA! Must admit I’ve never seen this position explored before. I do wonder how the WTO would view this. Leaving the customs u ion is not a prerequisite of leaving the Eu. And despite claims, there is no real mandate to do so. It is a choice being made by the uk government above and beyond triggering article 50. So could the wto say, you chose to build a treaty on being in a customs union. If you chose to exit it get so be it. No dispensations here. Or would the look favourably at the Eu (who has no choice) and more harshly on the uk. Is that possible ? If a deal with wto is needed (again we’re in no deal meaning some deal space) shouldn’t we have got cracking? We're leaving the customs union because it was a key point of the official Leave campaign during the referendum in 2016 (being able to do our own trade deals means leaving the customs union). So they do have a mandate for it in that regard. Furthermore it was also in the Conservative party manifesto at the general election to leave the customs union and the tories got more votes and returned more MP's than any other party, so again have a mandate in that regard. Furthermore the House of Commons voted by majority to leave the customs union in the EU Withdrawal bill votes so again have a mandate there. The above 3 combined give more than enough mandate for the government to leave the customs union. Second point about the WTO is, do you really think any country with beef or a grudge against the EU will let the EU get away with having any kind of special treatment? We keep being told by remainers that countries like Russia will block the UK's proposed WTO tariff schedule and thereby block the UK becoming a member of the WTO. This also applies to the EU, in that if the EU is seen in any way to be breaking WTO rules (on the Irish border on the EU's side) after brexit you can fully expect countries like Russia (and I'd add USA in there too because Trump dislikes the EU) to lodge formal complaints against the EU with the WTO for failing to meet its WTO obligations or for breach of WTO rules. The WTO would not be able to ignore those complaints from other countries and would have to act on them. The likes of Russia and the USA could push as far as having the EU either suspended or removed from the WTO. " Aren't the UK Government planning on leaving the Single Market & Customs Union & arranging just a customs agreement ? I'm sure that covers the Government's pledge's regarding Brexit, does it not ? | |||
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"Benefit is going to happen so just get on with it! It will probably be a no deal withdrawal agreement and a no future proposal on an FTA. The possibility of a second referendum unlikely because of tribal divisions in politics as opposed to what is good for the country. Extension on A50 - unlikely that all 27 would agree to that based on the current situation. So 29/3 is "liberation" day - or maybe that should be 30th? So let's see the UK now prepare for the break - I mean physical preparation as opposed to a load of emails. Let's see the WTO schedule approved - come on Dr Fox deliver and do it now! Come on let's get all the current regulatory bodies of the EU replicated by UK ones. We want aircraft flying etc etc - let's spend the money to ensure we have all the necessary functions functioning! Is wto a possibility ? I think centy said the Irish border has to be porous, which wto doesn’t allow. Didn't Jacob Rees Mogg say after his meeting with Michel Barnier (which would suggest Barnier agreed) that both the UK and the EU could seek an agreement on the Irish border from the WTO because of the unique circumstances surrounding the Good Friday agreement which exist no where else in the world. I think your assuming too much! Barnier has made his position very clear from the beginning - which basically if the Good Friday Agreement is NOT to be broken - then a customs union needs to be in place. The other option is a border which breaks the GFA! Must admit I’ve never seen this position explored before. I do wonder how the WTO would view this. Leaving the customs u ion is not a prerequisite of leaving the Eu. And despite claims, there is no real mandate to do so. It is a choice being made by the uk government above and beyond triggering article 50. So could the wto say, you chose to build a treaty on being in a customs union. If you chose to exit it get so be it. No dispensations here. Or would the look favourably at the Eu (who has no choice) and more harshly on the uk. Is that possible ? If a deal with wto is needed (again we’re in no deal meaning some deal space) shouldn’t we have got cracking? We're leaving the customs union because it was a key point of the official Leave campaign during the referendum in 2016 (being able to do our own trade deals means leaving the customs union). So they do have a mandate for it in that regard. Furthermore it was also in the Conservative party manifesto at the general election to leave the customs union and the tories got more votes and returned more MP's than any other party, so again have a mandate in that regard. Furthermore the House of Commons voted by majority to leave the customs union in the EU Withdrawal bill votes so again have a mandate there. The above 3 combined give more than enough mandate for the government to leave the customs union. Second point about the WTO is, do you really think any country with beef or a grudge against the EU will let the EU get away with having any kind of special treatment? We keep being told by remainers that countries like Russia will block the UK's proposed WTO tariff schedule and thereby block the UK becoming a member of the WTO. This also applies to the EU, in that if the EU is seen in any way to be breaking WTO rules (on the Irish border on the EU's side) after brexit you can fully expect countries like Russia (and I'd add USA in there too because Trump dislikes the EU) to lodge formal complaints against the EU with the WTO for failing to meet its WTO obligations or for breach of WTO rules. The WTO would not be able to ignore those complaints from other countries and would have to act on them. The likes of Russia and the USA could push as far as having the EU either suspended or removed from the WTO. " No one could makes a promise during the reforendum. But this loop is getting boring. Either which way, by signing up to leaving the customs union we’re either saying we have to make a deal with EU. Or do a fudge with the WTO. Which asfaik has never been discussed, at least until now. Unless I missed the bit in the referendum where it was spelt out where it was said GFA meant a WTO deal (which is an odd position to say the no deal solution needs a deal). | |||
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"Benefit is going to happen so just get on with it! It will probably be a no deal withdrawal agreement and a no future proposal on an FTA. The possibility of a second referendum unlikely because of tribal divisions in politics as opposed to what is good for the country. Extension on A50 - unlikely that all 27 would agree to that based on the current situation. So 29/3 is "liberation" day - or maybe that should be 30th? So let's see the UK now prepare for the break - I mean physical preparation as opposed to a load of emails. Let's see the WTO schedule approved - come on Dr Fox deliver and do it now! Come on let's get all the current regulatory bodies of the EU replicated by UK ones. We want aircraft flying etc etc - let's spend the money to ensure we have all the necessary functions functioning! Is wto a possibility ? I think centy said the Irish border has to be porous, which wto doesn’t allow. Didn't Jacob Rees Mogg say after his meeting with Michel Barnier (which would suggest Barnier agreed) that both the UK and the EU could seek an agreement on the Irish border from the WTO because of the unique circumstances surrounding the Good Friday agreement which exist no where else in the world. I think your assuming too much! Barnier has made his position very clear from the beginning - which basically if the Good Friday Agreement is NOT to be broken - then a customs union needs to be in place. The other option is a border which breaks the GFA! Must admit I’ve never seen this position explored before. I do wonder how the WTO would view this. Leaving the customs u ion is not a prerequisite of leaving the Eu. And despite claims, there is no real mandate to do so. It is a choice being made by the uk government above and beyond triggering article 50. So could the wto say, you chose to build a treaty on being in a customs union. If you chose to exit it get so be it. No dispensations here. Or would the look favourably at the Eu (who has no choice) and more harshly on the uk. Is that possible ? If a deal with wto is needed (again we’re in no deal meaning some deal space) shouldn’t we have got cracking? We're leaving the customs union because it was a key point of the official Leave campaign during the referendum in 2016 (being able to do our own trade deals means leaving the customs union). So they do have a mandate for it in that regard. Furthermore it was also in the Conservative party manifesto at the general election to leave the customs union and the tories got more votes and returned more MP's than any other party, so again have a mandate in that regard. Furthermore the House of Commons voted by majority to leave the customs union in the EU Withdrawal bill votes so again have a mandate there. The above 3 combined give more than enough mandate for the government to leave the customs union. Second point about the WTO is, do you really think any country with beef or a grudge against the EU will let the EU get away with having any kind of special treatment? We keep being told by remainers that countries like Russia will block the UK's proposed WTO tariff schedule and thereby block the UK becoming a member of the WTO. This also applies to the EU, in that if the EU is seen in any way to be breaking WTO rules (on the Irish border on the EU's side) after brexit you can fully expect countries like Russia (and I'd add USA in there too because Trump dislikes the EU) to lodge formal complaints against the EU with the WTO for failing to meet its WTO obligations or for breach of WTO rules. The WTO would not be able to ignore those complaints from other countries and would have to act on them. The likes of Russia and the USA could push as far as having the EU either suspended or removed from the WTO. " In all three of those cases people were told they'd be a deal. And what exactly are the EU doing to breach WTO rules? They aren't the ones wanting to square the circle of leaving the existing customs union and avoiding a hard border. Once again, complete nonsense from you. | |||
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"Benefit is going to happen so just get on with it! It will probably be a no deal withdrawal agreement and a no future proposal on an FTA. The possibility of a second referendum unlikely because of tribal divisions in politics as opposed to what is good for the country. Extension on A50 - unlikely that all 27 would agree to that based on the current situation. So 29/3 is "liberation" day - or maybe that should be 30th? So let's see the UK now prepare for the break - I mean physical preparation as opposed to a load of emails. Let's see the WTO schedule approved - come on Dr Fox deliver and do it now! Come on let's get all the current regulatory bodies of the EU replicated by UK ones. We want aircraft flying etc etc - let's spend the money to ensure we have all the necessary functions functioning! Is wto a possibility ? I think centy said the Irish border has to be porous, which wto doesn’t allow. Didn't Jacob Rees Mogg say after his meeting with Michel Barnier (which would suggest Barnier agreed) that both the UK and the EU could seek an agreement on the Irish border from the WTO because of the unique circumstances surrounding the Good Friday agreement which exist no where else in the world. I think your assuming too much! Barnier has made his position very clear from the beginning - which basically if the Good Friday Agreement is NOT to be broken - then a customs union needs to be in place. The other option is a border which breaks the GFA! Must admit I’ve never seen this position explored before. I do wonder how the WTO would view this. Leaving the customs u ion is not a prerequisite of leaving the Eu. And despite claims, there is no real mandate to do so. It is a choice being made by the uk government above and beyond triggering article 50. So could the wto say, you chose to build a treaty on being in a customs union. If you chose to exit it get so be it. No dispensations here. Or would the look favourably at the Eu (who has no choice) and more harshly on the uk. Is that possible ? If a deal with wto is needed (again we’re in no deal meaning some deal space) shouldn’t we have got cracking? We're leaving the customs union because it was a key point of the official Leave campaign during the referendum in 2016 (being able to do our own trade deals means leaving the customs union). So they do have a mandate for it in that regard. Furthermore it was also in the Conservative party manifesto at the general election to leave the customs union and the tories got more votes and returned more MP's than any other party, so again have a mandate in that regard. Furthermore the House of Commons voted by majority to leave the customs union in the EU Withdrawal bill votes so again have a mandate there. The above 3 combined give more than enough mandate for the government to leave the customs union. Second point about the WTO is, do you really think any country with beef or a grudge against the EU will let the EU get away with having any kind of special treatment? We keep being told by remainers that countries like Russia will block the UK's proposed WTO tariff schedule and thereby block the UK becoming a member of the WTO. This also applies to the EU, in that if the EU is seen in any way to be breaking WTO rules (on the Irish border on the EU's side) after brexit you can fully expect countries like Russia (and I'd add USA in there too because Trump dislikes the EU) to lodge formal complaints against the EU with the WTO for failing to meet its WTO obligations or for breach of WTO rules. The WTO would not be able to ignore those complaints from other countries and would have to act on them. The likes of Russia and the USA could push as far as having the EU either suspended or removed from the WTO. In all three of those cases people were told they'd be a deal. And what exactly are the EU doing to breach WTO rules? They aren't the ones wanting to square the circle of leaving the existing customs union and avoiding a hard border. Once again, complete nonsense from you." If you'd bothered to read the thread properly you'll see that it was SwinGlosCouple who first suggested that a porus Irish border was against WTO rules. I'm just pointing out that under WTO rules that would apply equally to both the UK and the EU after Brexit. If the EU allows a porus border on its side in the Rep. of Ireland after we've left then the EU would be in breach of WTO rules and would have to suffer the consequences. Also as remainers keep crowing about the UK tariff schedule not yet being approved in the WTO then we're not considered full members of the WTO until it is approved. The UK can't be in breach of WTO rules if we've not even been accepted as a member. | |||
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"Benefit is going to happen so just get on with it! It will probably be a no deal withdrawal agreement and a no future proposal on an FTA. The possibility of a second referendum unlikely because of tribal divisions in politics as opposed to what is good for the country. Extension on A50 - unlikely that all 27 would agree to that based on the current situation. So 29/3 is "liberation" day - or maybe that should be 30th? So let's see the UK now prepare for the break - I mean physical preparation as opposed to a load of emails. Let's see the WTO schedule approved - come on Dr Fox deliver and do it now! Come on let's get all the current regulatory bodies of the EU replicated by UK ones. We want aircraft flying etc etc - let's spend the money to ensure we have all the necessary functions functioning! Is wto a possibility ? I think centy said the Irish border has to be porous, which wto doesn’t allow. Didn't Jacob Rees Mogg say after his meeting with Michel Barnier (which would suggest Barnier agreed) that both the UK and the EU could seek an agreement on the Irish border from the WTO because of the unique circumstances surrounding the Good Friday agreement which exist no where else in the world. I think your assuming too much! Barnier has made his position very clear from the beginning - which basically if the Good Friday Agreement is NOT to be broken - then a customs union needs to be in place. The other option is a border which breaks the GFA! Must admit I’ve never seen this position explored before. I do wonder how the WTO would view this. Leaving the customs u ion is not a prerequisite of leaving the Eu. And despite claims, there is no real mandate to do so. It is a choice being made by the uk government above and beyond triggering article 50. So could the wto say, you chose to build a treaty on being in a customs union. If you chose to exit it get so be it. No dispensations here. Or would the look favourably at the Eu (who has no choice) and more harshly on the uk. Is that possible ? If a deal with wto is needed (again we’re in no deal meaning some deal space) shouldn’t we have got cracking? We're leaving the customs union because it was a key point of the official Leave campaign during the referendum in 2016 (being able to do our own trade deals means leaving the customs union). So they do have a mandate for it in that regard. Furthermore it was also in the Conservative party manifesto at the general election to leave the customs union and the tories got more votes and returned more MP's than any other party, so again have a mandate in that regard. Furthermore the House of Commons voted by majority to leave the customs union in the EU Withdrawal bill votes so again have a mandate there. The above 3 combined give more than enough mandate for the government to leave the customs union. Second point about the WTO is, do you really think any country with beef or a grudge against the EU will let the EU get away with having any kind of special treatment? We keep being told by remainers that countries like Russia will block the UK's proposed WTO tariff schedule and thereby block the UK becoming a member of the WTO. This also applies to the EU, in that if the EU is seen in any way to be breaking WTO rules (on the Irish border on the EU's side) after brexit you can fully expect countries like Russia (and I'd add USA in there too because Trump dislikes the EU) to lodge formal complaints against the EU with the WTO for failing to meet its WTO obligations or for breach of WTO rules. The WTO would not be able to ignore those complaints from other countries and would have to act on them. The likes of Russia and the USA could push as far as having the EU either suspended or removed from the WTO. No one could makes a promise during the reforendum. But this loop is getting boring. Either which way, by signing up to leaving the customs union we’re either saying we have to make a deal with EU. Or do a fudge with the WTO. Which asfaik has never been discussed, at least until now. Unless I missed the bit in the referendum where it was spelt out where it was said GFA meant a WTO deal (which is an odd position to say the no deal solution needs a deal). " No Deal with the EU always meant a WTO deal. A WTO deal is the default position of No Deal with the EU. | |||
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"Benefit is going to happen so just get on with it! It will probably be a no deal withdrawal agreement and a no future proposal on an FTA. The possibility of a second referendum unlikely because of tribal divisions in politics as opposed to what is good for the country. Extension on A50 - unlikely that all 27 would agree to that based on the current situation. So 29/3 is "liberation" day - or maybe that should be 30th? So let's see the UK now prepare for the break - I mean physical preparation as opposed to a load of emails. Let's see the WTO schedule approved - come on Dr Fox deliver and do it now! Come on let's get all the current regulatory bodies of the EU replicated by UK ones. We want aircraft flying etc etc - let's spend the money to ensure we have all the necessary functions functioning! Is wto a possibility ? I think centy said the Irish border has to be porous, which wto doesn’t allow. Didn't Jacob Rees Mogg say after his meeting with Michel Barnier (which would suggest Barnier agreed) that both the UK and the EU could seek an agreement on the Irish border from the WTO because of the unique circumstances surrounding the Good Friday agreement which exist no where else in the world. I think your assuming too much! Barnier has made his position very clear from the beginning - which basically if the Good Friday Agreement is NOT to be broken - then a customs union needs to be in place. The other option is a border which breaks the GFA! Must admit I’ve never seen this position explored before. I do wonder how the WTO would view this. Leaving the customs u ion is not a prerequisite of leaving the Eu. And despite claims, there is no real mandate to do so. It is a choice being made by the uk government above and beyond triggering article 50. So could the wto say, you chose to build a treaty on being in a customs union. If you chose to exit it get so be it. No dispensations here. Or would the look favourably at the Eu (who has no choice) and more harshly on the uk. Is that possible ? If a deal with wto is needed (again we’re in no deal meaning some deal space) shouldn’t we have got cracking? We're leaving the customs union because it was a key point of the official Leave campaign during the referendum in 2016 (being able to do our own trade deals means leaving the customs union). So they do have a mandate for it in that regard. Furthermore it was also in the Conservative party manifesto at the general election to leave the customs union and the tories got more votes and returned more MP's than any other party, so again have a mandate in that regard. Furthermore the House of Commons voted by majority to leave the customs union in the EU Withdrawal bill votes so again have a mandate there. The above 3 combined give more than enough mandate for the government to leave the customs union. Second point about the WTO is, do you really think any country with beef or a grudge against the EU will let the EU get away with having any kind of special treatment? We keep being told by remainers that countries like Russia will block the UK's proposed WTO tariff schedule and thereby block the UK becoming a member of the WTO. This also applies to the EU, in that if the EU is seen in any way to be breaking WTO rules (on the Irish border on the EU's side) after brexit you can fully expect countries like Russia (and I'd add USA in there too because Trump dislikes the EU) to lodge formal complaints against the EU with the WTO for failing to meet its WTO obligations or for breach of WTO rules. The WTO would not be able to ignore those complaints from other countries and would have to act on them. The likes of Russia and the USA could push as far as having the EU either suspended or removed from the WTO. " You make a good point but I'm not sure you're totally correct. The normal situation in international law when a country or cooperation body splits is that one part of the split (normally the larger part) inherits most or all of rights and obligations with the smaller part of the split being treated as a new entity. However I've not really looked into this aspect yet, but I will be now. However your argument would explain why the EU is absolutely adamant that a backstop exists that ensures the EU won't have to renege on its commitmens as guarantor to the GFA. | |||
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"BREXIT hasn’t happened yet, so how can it have failed? If you mean the “deal with the EU” but, I couldn’t care less. A no deal exit and true independence. Bring it on
People like you would have seen the iceberg from the deck of the Titanic and claimed it was fake news. Wake up: a no deal brexit will be a shitstorm
Anyone who knows the full story of Titanic knows only too well that if they hadn't seen the iceberg and hit it head on, then the ship would have been damaged but would have stayed afloat.
By trying to dodge it they struck it with a glancing blow down the starboard side which damaged it beyond salvation.
Sometimes head on is the best way to face things. "Here's the thing, you lot are denying the iceberg even exists | |||
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"Benefit is going to happen so just get on with it! It will probably be a no deal withdrawal agreement and a no future proposal on an FTA. The possibility of a second referendum unlikely because of tribal divisions in politics as opposed to what is good for the country. Extension on A50 - unlikely that all 27 would agree to that based on the current situation. So 29/3 is "liberation" day - or maybe that should be 30th? So let's see the UK now prepare for the break - I mean physical preparation as opposed to a load of emails. Let's see the WTO schedule approved - come on Dr Fox deliver and do it now! Come on let's get all the current regulatory bodies of the EU replicated by UK ones. We want aircraft flying etc etc - let's spend the money to ensure we have all the necessary functions functioning! Is wto a possibility ? I think centy said the Irish border has to be porous, which wto doesn’t allow. Didn't Jacob Rees Mogg say after his meeting with Michel Barnier (which would suggest Barnier agreed) that both the UK and the EU could seek an agreement on the Irish border from the WTO because of the unique circumstances surrounding the Good Friday agreement which exist no where else in the world. I think your assuming too much! Barnier has made his position very clear from the beginning - which basically if the Good Friday Agreement is NOT to be broken - then a customs union needs to be in place. The other option is a border which breaks the GFA! Must admit I’ve never seen this position explored before. I do wonder how the WTO would view this. Leaving the customs u ion is not a prerequisite of leaving the Eu. And despite claims, there is no real mandate to do so. It is a choice being made by the uk government above and beyond triggering article 50. So could the wto say, you chose to build a treaty on being in a customs union. If you chose to exit it get so be it. No dispensations here. Or would the look favourably at the Eu (who has no choice) and more harshly on the uk. Is that possible ? If a deal with wto is needed (again we’re in no deal meaning some deal space) shouldn’t we have got cracking? We're leaving the customs union because it was a key point of the official Leave campaign during the referendum in 2016 (being able to do our own trade deals means leaving the customs union). So they do have a mandate for it in that regard. Furthermore it was also in the Conservative party manifesto at the general election to leave the customs union and the tories got more votes and returned more MP's than any other party, so again have a mandate in that regard. Furthermore the House of Commons voted by majority to leave the customs union in the EU Withdrawal bill votes so again have a mandate there. The above 3 combined give more than enough mandate for the government to leave the customs union. Second point about the WTO is, do you really think any country with beef or a grudge against the EU will let the EU get away with having any kind of special treatment? We keep being told by remainers that countries like Russia will block the UK's proposed WTO tariff schedule and thereby block the UK becoming a member of the WTO. This also applies to the EU, in that if the EU is seen in any way to be breaking WTO rules (on the Irish border on the EU's side) after brexit you can fully expect countries like Russia (and I'd add USA in there too because Trump dislikes the EU) to lodge formal complaints against the EU with the WTO for failing to meet its WTO obligations or for breach of WTO rules. The WTO would not be able to ignore those complaints from other countries and would have to act on them. The likes of Russia and the USA could push as far as having the EU either suspended or removed from the WTO. No one could makes a promise during the reforendum. But this loop is getting boring. Either which way, by signing up to leaving the customs union we’re either saying we have to make a deal with EU. Or do a fudge with the WTO. Which asfaik has never been discussed, at least until now. Unless I missed the bit in the referendum where it was spelt out where it was said GFA meant a WTO deal (which is an odd position to say the no deal solution needs a deal). No Deal with the EU always meant a WTO deal. A WTO deal is the default position of No Deal with the EU. " But WTO isn’t compatible with GFA without a fudge. I don’t recall this ever being discussed. | |||
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"Benefit is going to happen so just get on with it! It will probably be a no deal withdrawal agreement and a no future proposal on an FTA. The possibility of a second referendum unlikely because of tribal divisions in politics as opposed to what is good for the country. Extension on A50 - unlikely that all 27 would agree to that based on the current situation. So 29/3 is "liberation" day - or maybe that should be 30th? So let's see the UK now prepare for the break - I mean physical preparation as opposed to a load of emails. Let's see the WTO schedule approved - come on Dr Fox deliver and do it now! Come on let's get all the current regulatory bodies of the EU replicated by UK ones. We want aircraft flying etc etc - let's spend the money to ensure we have all the necessary functions functioning! Is wto a possibility ? I think centy said the Irish border has to be porous, which wto doesn’t allow. Didn't Jacob Rees Mogg say after his meeting with Michel Barnier (which would suggest Barnier agreed) that both the UK and the EU could seek an agreement on the Irish border from the WTO because of the unique circumstances surrounding the Good Friday agreement which exist no where else in the world. I think your assuming too much! Barnier has made his position very clear from the beginning - which basically if the Good Friday Agreement is NOT to be broken - then a customs union needs to be in place. The other option is a border which breaks the GFA! Must admit I’ve never seen this position explored before. I do wonder how the WTO would view this. Leaving the customs u ion is not a prerequisite of leaving the Eu. And despite claims, there is no real mandate to do so. It is a choice being made by the uk government above and beyond triggering article 50. So could the wto say, you chose to build a treaty on being in a customs union. If you chose to exit it get so be it. No dispensations here. Or would the look favourably at the Eu (who has no choice) and more harshly on the uk. Is that possible ? If a deal with wto is needed (again we’re in no deal meaning some deal space) shouldn’t we have got cracking? We're leaving the customs union because it was a key point of the official Leave campaign during the referendum in 2016 (being able to do our own trade deals means leaving the customs union). So they do have a mandate for it in that regard. Furthermore it was also in the Conservative party manifesto at the general election to leave the customs union and the tories got more votes and returned more MP's than any other party, so again have a mandate in that regard. Furthermore the House of Commons voted by majority to leave the customs union in the EU Withdrawal bill votes so again have a mandate there. The above 3 combined give more than enough mandate for the government to leave the customs union. Second point about the WTO is, do you really think any country with beef or a grudge against the EU will let the EU get away with having any kind of special treatment? We keep being told by remainers that countries like Russia will block the UK's proposed WTO tariff schedule and thereby block the UK becoming a member of the WTO. This also applies to the EU, in that if the EU is seen in any way to be breaking WTO rules (on the Irish border on the EU's side) after brexit you can fully expect countries like Russia (and I'd add USA in there too because Trump dislikes the EU) to lodge formal complaints against the EU with the WTO for failing to meet its WTO obligations or for breach of WTO rules. The WTO would not be able to ignore those complaints from other countries and would have to act on them. The likes of Russia and the USA could push as far as having the EU either suspended or removed from the WTO. No one could makes a promise during the reforendum. But this loop is getting boring. Either which way, by signing up to leaving the customs union we’re either saying we have to make a deal with EU. Or do a fudge with the WTO. Which asfaik has never been discussed, at least until now. Unless I missed the bit in the referendum where it was spelt out where it was said GFA meant a WTO deal (which is an odd position to say the no deal solution needs a deal). No Deal with the EU always meant a WTO deal. A WTO deal is the default position of No Deal with the EU. But WTO isn’t compatible with GFA without a fudge. I don’t recall this ever being discussed. " Hence no agreement yet! You can't square a circle! | |||
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"Benefit is going to happen so just get on with it! It will probably be a no deal withdrawal agreement and a no future proposal on an FTA. The possibility of a second referendum unlikely because of tribal divisions in politics as opposed to what is good for the country. Extension on A50 - unlikely that all 27 would agree to that based on the current situation. So 29/3 is "liberation" day - or maybe that should be 30th? So let's see the UK now prepare for the break - I mean physical preparation as opposed to a load of emails. Let's see the WTO schedule approved - come on Dr Fox deliver and do it now! Come on let's get all the current regulatory bodies of the EU replicated by UK ones. We want aircraft flying etc etc - let's spend the money to ensure we have all the necessary functions functioning! Is wto a possibility ? I think centy said the Irish border has to be porous, which wto doesn’t allow. Didn't Jacob Rees Mogg say after his meeting with Michel Barnier (which would suggest Barnier agreed) that both the UK and the EU could seek an agreement on the Irish border from the WTO because of the unique circumstances surrounding the Good Friday agreement which exist no where else in the world. I think your assuming too much! Barnier has made his position very clear from the beginning - which basically if the Good Friday Agreement is NOT to be broken - then a customs union needs to be in place. The other option is a border which breaks the GFA! Must admit I’ve never seen this position explored before. I do wonder how the WTO would view this. Leaving the customs u ion is not a prerequisite of leaving the Eu. And despite claims, there is no real mandate to do so. It is a choice being made by the uk government above and beyond triggering article 50. So could the wto say, you chose to build a treaty on being in a customs union. If you chose to exit it get so be it. No dispensations here. Or would the look favourably at the Eu (who has no choice) and more harshly on the uk. Is that possible ? If a deal with wto is needed (again we’re in no deal meaning some deal space) shouldn’t we have got cracking? We're leaving the customs union because it was a key point of the official Leave campaign during the referendum in 2016 (being able to do our own trade deals means leaving the customs union). So they do have a mandate for it in that regard. Furthermore it was also in the Conservative party manifesto at the general election to leave the customs union and the tories got more votes and returned more MP's than any other party, so again have a mandate in that regard. Furthermore the House of Commons voted by majority to leave the customs union in the EU Withdrawal bill votes so again have a mandate there. The above 3 combined give more than enough mandate for the government to leave the customs union. Second point about the WTO is, do you really think any country with beef or a grudge against the EU will let the EU get away with having any kind of special treatment? We keep being told by remainers that countries like Russia will block the UK's proposed WTO tariff schedule and thereby block the UK becoming a member of the WTO. This also applies to the EU, in that if the EU is seen in any way to be breaking WTO rules (on the Irish border on the EU's side) after brexit you can fully expect countries like Russia (and I'd add USA in there too because Trump dislikes the EU) to lodge formal complaints against the EU with the WTO for failing to meet its WTO obligations or for breach of WTO rules. The WTO would not be able to ignore those complaints from other countries and would have to act on them. The likes of Russia and the USA could push as far as having the EU either suspended or removed from the WTO. No one could makes a promise during the reforendum. But this loop is getting boring. Either which way, by signing up to leaving the customs union we’re either saying we have to make a deal with EU. Or do a fudge with the WTO. Which asfaik has never been discussed, at least until now. Unless I missed the bit in the referendum where it was spelt out where it was said GFA meant a WTO deal (which is an odd position to say the no deal solution needs a deal). No Deal with the EU always meant a WTO deal. A WTO deal is the default position of No Deal with the EU. " But what happens if your schedule is not acceptable to ALL the current members? | |||
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"BREXIT hasn’t happened yet, so how can it have failed? If you mean the “deal with the EU” but, I couldn’t care less. A no deal exit and true independence. Bring it on
People like you would have seen the iceberg from the deck of the Titanic and claimed it was fake news. Wake up: a no deal brexit will be a shitstorm
Anyone who knows the full story of Titanic knows only too well that if they hadn't seen the iceberg and hit it head on, then the ship would have been damaged but would have stayed afloat.
By trying to dodge it they struck it with a glancing blow down the starboard side which damaged it beyond salvation.
Sometimes head on is the best way to face things.
At end of day I think Teresa May has been deck chair re arranger in chief."No. I would liken her more to Captain Lord who could have saved most of the passengers if only he had the will (and bottle) to. BTW. You will need to have seen more than just the Winslet/De Caprio movie to know who he was. | |||
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"BREXIT hasn’t happened yet, so how can it have failed? If you mean the “deal with the EU” but, I couldn’t care less. A no deal exit and true independence. Bring it on
People like you would have seen the iceberg from the deck of the Titanic and claimed it was fake news. Wake up: a no deal brexit will be a shitstorm
Anyone who knows the full story of Titanic knows only too well that if they hadn't seen the iceberg and hit it head on, then the ship would have been damaged but would have stayed afloat.
By trying to dodge it they struck it with a glancing blow down the starboard side which damaged it beyond salvation.
Sometimes head on is the best way to face things.
At end of day I think Teresa May has been deck chair re arranger in chief.
No. I would liken her more to Captain Lord who could have saved most of the passengers if only he had the will (and bottle) to.
BTW. You will need to have seen more than just the Winslet/De Caprio movie to know who he was."I think you're making the classic BREXITER mistake of blaming anything (in this case TM) rather than accepting that the real problem with BREXIT is BREXIT. If the problem with BREXIT was really anything other than BREXIT itself then you'd of thought that, after more than 2 years, the BREXITERS would have removed the problem and got on with it. | |||
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"BREXIT hasn’t happened yet, so how can it have failed? If you mean the “deal with the EU” but, I couldn’t care less. A no deal exit and true independence. Bring it on
People like you would have seen the iceberg from the deck of the Titanic and claimed it was fake news. Wake up: a no deal brexit will be a shitstorm
Anyone who knows the full story of Titanic knows only too well that if they hadn't seen the iceberg and hit it head on, then the ship would have been damaged but would have stayed afloat.
By trying to dodge it they struck it with a glancing blow down the starboard side which damaged it beyond salvation.
Sometimes head on is the best way to face things.
At end of day I think Teresa May has been deck chair re arranger in chief.
No. I would liken her more to Captain Lord who could have saved most of the passengers if only he had the will (and bottle) to.
BTW. You will need to have seen more than just the Winslet/De Caprio movie to know who he was.
I think you're making the classic BREXITER mistake of blaming anything (in this case TM) rather than accepting that the real problem with BREXIT is BREXIT. If the problem with BREXIT was really anything other than BREXIT itself then you'd of thought that, after more than 2 years, the BREXITERS would have removed the problem and got on with it.
"To a certain extent you are right. The problem is Brexit itself but only because the EU want to make it one, or maybe I should really say a bigger problem that it actually is. Once they put Barnier, Verhofstadt, Juncker and, by default, Selmyr in charge it was always going to be a punishment squad. Teresa May isn't the problem but she is (supposedly) the problem solver and she has made a complete dogs breakfast of it. That is why I likened her to Captain Lord when someone brought up the Titanic. Lord could have saved hundreds of lives, if only he had acted | |||
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"BREXIT hasn’t happened yet, so how can it have failed? If you mean the “deal with the EU” but, I couldn’t care less. A no deal exit and true independence. Bring it on
People like you would have seen the iceberg from the deck of the Titanic and claimed it was fake news. Wake up: a no deal brexit will be a shitstorm
Anyone who knows the full story of Titanic knows only too well that if they hadn't seen the iceberg and hit it head on, then the ship would have been damaged but would have stayed afloat.
By trying to dodge it they struck it with a glancing blow down the starboard side which damaged it beyond salvation.
Sometimes head on is the best way to face things.
At end of day I think Teresa May has been deck chair re arranger in chief.
No. I would liken her more to Captain Lord who could have saved most of the passengers if only he had the will (and bottle) to.
BTW. You will need to have seen more than just the Winslet/De Caprio movie to know who he was.
I think you're making the classic BREXITER mistake of blaming anything (in this case TM) rather than accepting that the real problem with BREXIT is BREXIT. If the problem with BREXIT was really anything other than BREXIT itself then you'd of thought that, after more than 2 years, the BREXITERS would have removed the problem and got on with it.
To a certain extent you are right. The problem is Brexit itself but only because the EU want to make it one, or maybe I should really say a bigger problem that it actually is.
Once they put Barnier, Verhofstadt, Juncker and, by default, Selmyr in charge it was always going to be a punishment squad.
Teresa May isn't the problem but she is (supposedly) the problem solver and she has made a complete dogs breakfast of it.
That is why I likened her to Captain Lord when someone brought up the Titanic.
Lord could have saved hundreds of lives, if only he had acted"I think your analogy with Captain Lord is quite good. He was blamed for not doing more to help and maybe he could have done more and possibly made the Titanic disaster a little less worse than it actually was but ultimately the cause of the Titanic disaster was the fundamentally flawed Titanic itself. And thus it is with May and BREXIT also. | |||
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"So not in any way the fault of the thousands of 18-24 year old that were far too busy on Facebook ect to get off thier asses and vote and then moan about the result then ? If they had bothered the be result may well have been a lot different Aaaaaand we are on to victim blaming. Leavers just can’t stop and put their hand up and say “sorry, we were idiots”. -Matt" | |||
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"BREXIT hasn’t happened yet, so how can it have failed? If you mean the “deal with the EU” but, I couldn’t care less. A no deal exit and true independence. Bring it on
People like you would have seen the iceberg from the deck of the Titanic and claimed it was fake news. Wake up: a no deal brexit will be a shitstorm
Anyone who knows the full story of Titanic knows only too well that if they hadn't seen the iceberg and hit it head on, then the ship would have been damaged but would have stayed afloat.
By trying to dodge it they struck it with a glancing blow down the starboard side which damaged it beyond salvation.
Sometimes head on is the best way to face things.
At end of day I think Teresa May has been deck chair re arranger in chief.
No. I would liken her more to Captain Lord who could have saved most of the passengers if only he had the will (and bottle) to.
BTW. You will need to have seen more than just the Winslet/De Caprio movie to know who he was.
I think you're making the classic BREXITER mistake of blaming anything (in this case TM) rather than accepting that the real problem with BREXIT is BREXIT. If the problem with BREXIT was really anything other than BREXIT itself then you'd of thought that, after more than 2 years, the BREXITERS would have removed the problem and got on with it.
To a certain extent you are right. The problem is Brexit itself but only because the EU want to make it one, or maybe I should really say a bigger problem that it actually is.
Once they put Barnier, Verhofstadt, Juncker and, by default, Selmyr in charge it was always going to be a punishment squad.
Teresa May isn't the problem but she is (supposedly) the problem solver and she has made a complete dogs breakfast of it.
That is why I likened her to Captain Lord when someone brought up the Titanic.
Lord could have saved hundreds of lives, if only he had acted"What I cannot understand is why you would think the EU is trying to punish? It's ok for the UK to take back control, protect its union (Northern Ireland), but have all its own way negotiations wise. Anyone who has been through a divorce knows it's never a smooth process! The EU are protecting their borders, their single market, their customs union and to some extent giving the likes of Italy, Poland, Hungary an idea of what lies ahead if they choose to leave! Your not going to get your cake and eat it! Italy will have similar problems as the UK vis a vie they are in Euro and we have the Good Friday Agreement. Poland and Hungary both have their own currencies so will be easier. However both countries like the money they get so who knows what they will do? | |||
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"BREXIT hasn’t happened yet, so how can it have failed? If you mean the “deal with the EU” but, I couldn’t care less. A no deal exit and true independence. Bring it on
People like you would have seen the iceberg from the deck of the Titanic and claimed it was fake news. Wake up: a no deal brexit will be a shitstorm
Anyone who knows the full story of Titanic knows only too well that if they hadn't seen the iceberg and hit it head on, then the ship would have been damaged but would have stayed afloat.
By trying to dodge it they struck it with a glancing blow down the starboard side which damaged it beyond salvation.
Sometimes head on is the best way to face things.
At end of day I think Teresa May has been deck chair re arranger in chief.
No. I would liken her more to Captain Lord who could have saved most of the passengers if only he had the will (and bottle) to.
BTW. You will need to have seen more than just the Winslet/De Caprio movie to know who he was.
I think you're making the classic BREXITER mistake of blaming anything (in this case TM) rather than accepting that the real problem with BREXIT is BREXIT. If the problem with BREXIT was really anything other than BREXIT itself then you'd of thought that, after more than 2 years, the BREXITERS would have removed the problem and got on with it.
To a certain extent you are right. The problem is Brexit itself but only because the EU want to make it one, or maybe I should really say a bigger problem that it actually is.
Once they put Barnier, Verhofstadt, Juncker and, by default, Selmyr in charge it was always going to be a punishment squad.
Teresa May isn't the problem but she is (supposedly) the problem solver and she has made a complete dogs breakfast of it.
That is why I likened her to Captain Lord when someone brought up the Titanic.
Lord could have saved hundreds of lives, if only he had acted
What I cannot understand is why you would think the EU is trying to punish?
It's ok for the UK to take back control, protect its union (Northern Ireland), but have all its own way negotiations wise. Anyone who has been through a divorce knows it's never a smooth process! The EU are protecting their borders, their single market, their customs union and to some extent giving the likes of Italy, Poland, Hungary an idea of what lies ahead if they choose to leave! Your not going to get your cake and eat it! Italy will have similar problems as the UK vis a vie they are in Euro and we have the Good Friday Agreement. Poland and Hungary both have their own currencies so will be easier. However both countries like the money they get so who knows what they will do?"Of course there is no such thing as a smooth divorce. However with a bit of will from both sides it can be made a lot easier. You hit the nail on the head though when you mention the other countries. The EU have to make it look as difficult as possible because their biggest fear is contagion. That is the whole point of project fear. | |||
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"BREXIT hasn’t happened yet, so how can it have failed? If you mean the “deal with the EU” but, I couldn’t care less. A no deal exit and true independence. Bring it on
People like you would have seen the iceberg from the deck of the Titanic and claimed it was fake news. Wake up: a no deal brexit will be a shitstorm
Anyone who knows the full story of Titanic knows only too well that if they hadn't seen the iceberg and hit it head on, then the ship would have been damaged but would have stayed afloat.
By trying to dodge it they struck it with a glancing blow down the starboard side which damaged it beyond salvation.
Sometimes head on is the best way to face things.
At end of day I think Teresa May has been deck chair re arranger in chief.
No. I would liken her more to Captain Lord who could have saved most of the passengers if only he had the will (and bottle) to.
BTW. You will need to have seen more than just the Winslet/De Caprio movie to know who he was.
I think you're making the classic BREXITER mistake of blaming anything (in this case TM) rather than accepting that the real problem with BREXIT is BREXIT. If the problem with BREXIT was really anything other than BREXIT itself then you'd of thought that, after more than 2 years, the BREXITERS would have removed the problem and got on with it.
To a certain extent you are right. The problem is Brexit itself but only because the EU want to make it one, or maybe I should really say a bigger problem that it actually is.
Once they put Barnier, Verhofstadt, Juncker and, by default, Selmyr in charge it was always going to be a punishment squad.
Teresa May isn't the problem but she is (supposedly) the problem solver and she has made a complete dogs breakfast of it.
That is why I likened her to Captain Lord when someone brought up the Titanic.
Lord could have saved hundreds of lives, if only he had acted
What I cannot understand is why you would think the EU is trying to punish?
It's ok for the UK to take back control, protect its union (Northern Ireland), but have all its own way negotiations wise. Anyone who has been through a divorce knows it's never a smooth process! The EU are protecting their borders, their single market, their customs union and to some extent giving the likes of Italy, Poland, Hungary an idea of what lies ahead if they choose to leave! Your not going to get your cake and eat it! Italy will have similar problems as the UK vis a vie they are in Euro and we have the Good Friday Agreement. Poland and Hungary both have their own currencies so will be easier. However both countries like the money they get so who knows what they will do?
Of course there is no such thing as a smooth divorce. However with a bit of will from both sides it can be made a lot easier.
You hit the nail on the head though when you mention the other countries.
The EU have to make it look as difficult as possible because their biggest fear is contagion.
That is the whole point of project fear."I don't think the EU really need to do anything to show what a completed fucking mistake this entire process is, do you? I mean, seriously, do you think there is actually any other EU country right now looking at this and going "Oh, that looks fun, maybe we should fuck our country up too and do the same!" Actually, you know what.... I take that back. Given how leavers are unable to own up to any of their shit and blame everyone else for everything, I imagine that maybe there are other countries, if they have strong far-right parties, that might try to 'pull a UKIP' and try and force their country into turmoil too. But either way, what the EU does or doesn't do would have no bearing on it. Just as what the EU actually do or don't do here, we still have a large contingent of stupid people that still think we need to leave the EU to get blue passports or bendy bananas. -Matt | |||
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"BREXIT hasn’t happened yet, so how can it have failed? If you mean the “deal with the EU” but, I couldn’t care less. A no deal exit and true independence. Bring it on
People like you would have seen the iceberg from the deck of the Titanic and claimed it was fake news. Wake up: a no deal brexit will be a shitstorm
Anyone who knows the full story of Titanic knows only too well that if they hadn't seen the iceberg and hit it head on, then the ship would have been damaged but would have stayed afloat.
By trying to dodge it they struck it with a glancing blow down the starboard side which damaged it beyond salvation.
Sometimes head on is the best way to face things.
At end of day I think Teresa May has been deck chair re arranger in chief.
No. I would liken her more to Captain Lord who could have saved most of the passengers if only he had the will (and bottle) to.
BTW. You will need to have seen more than just the Winslet/De Caprio movie to know who he was.
I think you're making the classic BREXITER mistake of blaming anything (in this case TM) rather than accepting that the real problem with BREXIT is BREXIT. If the problem with BREXIT was really anything other than BREXIT itself then you'd of thought that, after more than 2 years, the BREXITERS would have removed the problem and got on with it.
To a certain extent you are right. The problem is Brexit itself but only because the EU want to make it one, or maybe I should really say a bigger problem that it actually is.
Once they put Barnier, Verhofstadt, Juncker and, by default, Selmyr in charge it was always going to be a punishment squad.
Teresa May isn't the problem but she is (supposedly) the problem solver and she has made a complete dogs breakfast of it.
That is why I likened her to Captain Lord when someone brought up the Titanic.
Lord could have saved hundreds of lives, if only he had acted
What I cannot understand is why you would think the EU is trying to punish?
It's ok for the UK to take back control, protect its union (Northern Ireland), but have all its own way negotiations wise. Anyone who has been through a divorce knows it's never a smooth process! The EU are protecting their borders, their single market, their customs union and to some extent giving the likes of Italy, Poland, Hungary an idea of what lies ahead if they choose to leave! Your not going to get your cake and eat it! Italy will have similar problems as the UK vis a vie they are in Euro and we have the Good Friday Agreement. Poland and Hungary both have their own currencies so will be easier. However both countries like the money they get so who knows what they will do?
Of course there is no such thing as a smooth divorce. However with a bit of will from both sides it can be made a lot easier.
You hit the nail on the head though when you mention the other countries.
The EU have to make it look as difficult as possible because their biggest fear is contagion.
That is the whole point of project fear."This conspiracy idea that the EU wans to punish the U.K. is really mind boggling. I think that the concept is borne once again out of some weird, misguided sense of British entitlement. The truth is very much simpler and obvious for those who are prepared to look, and to see. The U.K. is choosing to leave the EU and has announced a number of red lines. It is therefore incumbent on the U.K. and not the EU to make sure that it leaves and adheres to its own red lines. The U.K. also needs to leave without breaking any pre-existing international treaties, without trying to cherry pick things that it has already vowed to leave and without trying to assert a commercial advantage over the entity that it is leaving. The EU are absolutely correct in protecting the integrity of its customs union and single market because this is protecting the remaining 27 Nations. How could anyone reasonably expect that the 27 Nations would welcome a country leaving their midst with the intention of creating an economic advantage over them by cherry picking what they had said they wanted to throw away. We would be like the petulant child who goes to parties and steals the best toys off all his friends. The U.K. just needs to play by the rules and respect international law. The problem is that we have a Government who don’t have a clue and a huge slice of the population who just do not want the complications of having to think about anything much more complex than a Facebook meme. | |||
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"Benefit is going to happen so just get on with it! It will probably be a no deal withdrawal agreement and a no future proposal on an FTA. The possibility of a second referendum unlikely because of tribal divisions in politics as opposed to what is good for the country. Extension on A50 - unlikely that all 27 would agree to that based on the current situation. So 29/3 is "liberation" day - or maybe that should be 30th? So let's see the UK now prepare for the break - I mean physical preparation as opposed to a load of emails. Let's see the WTO schedule approved - come on Dr Fox deliver and do it now! Come on let's get all the current regulatory bodies of the EU replicated by UK ones. We want aircraft flying etc etc - let's spend the money to ensure we have all the necessary functions functioning! Is wto a possibility ? I think centy said the Irish border has to be porous, which wto doesn’t allow. Didn't Jacob Rees Mogg say after his meeting with Michel Barnier (which would suggest Barnier agreed) that both the UK and the EU could seek an agreement on the Irish border from the WTO because of the unique circumstances surrounding the Good Friday agreement which exist no where else in the world. I think your assuming too much! Barnier has made his position very clear from the beginning - which basically if the Good Friday Agreement is NOT to be broken - then a customs union needs to be in place. The other option is a border which breaks the GFA! Must admit I’ve never seen this position explored before. I do wonder how the WTO would view this. Leaving the customs u ion is not a prerequisite of leaving the Eu. And despite claims, there is no real mandate to do so. It is a choice being made by the uk government above and beyond triggering article 50. So could the wto say, you chose to build a treaty on being in a customs union. If you chose to exit it get so be it. No dispensations here. Or would the look favourably at the Eu (who has no choice) and more harshly on the uk. Is that possible ? If a deal with wto is needed (again we’re in no deal meaning some deal space) shouldn’t we have got cracking? We're leaving the customs union because it was a key point of the official Leave campaign during the referendum in 2016 (being able to do our own trade deals means leaving the customs union). So they do have a mandate for it in that regard. Furthermore it was also in the Conservative party manifesto at the general election to leave the customs union and the tories got more votes and returned more MP's than any other party, so again have a mandate in that regard. Furthermore the House of Commons voted by majority to leave the customs union in the EU Withdrawal bill votes so again have a mandate there. The above 3 combined give more than enough mandate for the government to leave the customs union. Second point about the WTO is, do you really think any country with beef or a grudge against the EU will let the EU get away with having any kind of special treatment? We keep being told by remainers that countries like Russia will block the UK's proposed WTO tariff schedule and thereby block the UK becoming a member of the WTO. This also applies to the EU, in that if the EU is seen in any way to be breaking WTO rules (on the Irish border on the EU's side) after brexit you can fully expect countries like Russia (and I'd add USA in there too because Trump dislikes the EU) to lodge formal complaints against the EU with the WTO for failing to meet its WTO obligations or for breach of WTO rules. The WTO would not be able to ignore those complaints from other countries and would have to act on them. The likes of Russia and the USA could push as far as having the EU either suspended or removed from the WTO. You make a good point but I'm not sure you're totally correct. The normal situation in international law when a country or cooperation body splits is that one part of the split (normally the larger part) inherits most or all of rights and obligations with the smaller part of the split being treated as a new entity. However I've not really looked into this aspect yet, but I will be now. However your argument would explain why the EU is absolutely adamant that a backstop exists that ensures the EU won't have to renege on its commitmens as guarantor to the GFA. " With regard to the border on the island of Ireland. It turns out that actually there is NO LEGAL REQUIREMENT under WTO terms or rules for any country to secure it's borders. Sounds like good news for the BREXITERS but unfortunately it's still not quite as simple as that. https://tradebetablog.wordpress.com/2018/07/18/does-the-wto-require-countries-to-control-their-borders/ It's a five minute read so let's all read it first and then we can argue on something more facted based. | |||
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"BREXIT hasn’t happened yet, so how can it have failed? If you mean the “deal with the EU” but, I couldn’t care less. A no deal exit and true independence. Bring it on
People like you would have seen the iceberg from the deck of the Titanic and claimed it was fake news. Wake up: a no deal brexit will be a shitstorm
Anyone who knows the full story of Titanic knows only too well that if they hadn't seen the iceberg and hit it head on, then the ship would have been damaged but would have stayed afloat.
By trying to dodge it they struck it with a glancing blow down the starboard side which damaged it beyond salvation.
Sometimes head on is the best way to face things.
At end of day I think Teresa May has been deck chair re arranger in chief.
No. I would liken her more to Captain Lord who could have saved most of the passengers if only he had the will (and bottle) to.
BTW. You will need to have seen more than just the Winslet/De Caprio movie to know who he was.
I think you're making the classic BREXITER mistake of blaming anything (in this case TM) rather than accepting that the real problem with BREXIT is BREXIT. If the problem with BREXIT was really anything other than BREXIT itself then you'd of thought that, after more than 2 years, the BREXITERS would have removed the problem and got on with it.
To a certain extent you are right. The problem is Brexit itself but only because the EU want to make it one, or maybe I should really say a bigger problem that it actually is.
Once they put Barnier, Verhofstadt, Juncker and, by default, Selmyr in charge it was always going to be a punishment squad.
Teresa May isn't the problem but she is (supposedly) the problem solver and she has made a complete dogs breakfast of it.
That is why I likened her to Captain Lord when someone brought up the Titanic.
Lord could have saved hundreds of lives, if only he had acted
What I cannot understand is why you would think the EU is trying to punish?
It's ok for the UK to take back control, protect its union (Northern Ireland), but have all its own way negotiations wise. Anyone who has been through a divorce knows it's never a smooth process! The EU are protecting their borders, their single market, their customs union and to some extent giving the likes of Italy, Poland, Hungary an idea of what lies ahead if they choose to leave! Your not going to get your cake and eat it! Italy will have similar problems as the UK vis a vie they are in Euro and we have the Good Friday Agreement. Poland and Hungary both have their own currencies so will be easier. However both countries like the money they get so who knows what they will do?
Of course there is no such thing as a smooth divorce. However with a bit of will from both sides it can be made a lot easier.
You hit the nail on the head though when you mention the other countries.
The EU have to make it look as difficult as possible because their biggest fear is contagion.
That is the whole point of project fear."From my own experience 1 side always gets more! The other factor is that the UK is the guinea pig - it's never happened before (and nobody expected it to happen ), so it's a bit of "let's see how it pans out". Unfortunately what was once dubbed as "project fear" is now becoming "project fact"! It was sold as an easy exercise by the leave leaders - especially Farage who because he is only an MEP he wouldn't be involved in trying to sort it out. For him it was all about leaving - he didn't care about the economy - his £73,000 pension, his LBC job will ensure he's ok! | |||
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"Brexit delivers us daily doses of the most supreme irony and we just do not have the satirical comedy presenters anymore to do it justice. Brexit itself is the ultimate irony in so much as the vote was allegedly about taking back control and being in charge of our own destiny but we can’t even get a reasonable deal to actually leave the EU. How does that bode for the future when our politicians and civil servants seem to be completely out of their depth even negotiating with friends. How would this pan out in truly competitive negotiations on a global scale? " Yeah but they'll get better. Practice makes perfect. | |||
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"Daily mash PLAY our interactive adventure in which YOU are the brave Brexiteer who can save England from the evil foreigners. 1) You are in a tavern when a stranger called Nigel asks you to go on a quest to leave the EU. If you accept, go to 3. If you decide it’s just xenophobic bollocks go to 2. 2) Oh no! You are trapped in the Cave of Remoaners. Anguished cries echo in the darkness. If you try to escape, go to 3. If you decide to stay, go to 4. 3) You are on the Road to Brexit. Suddenly your path is blocked by the Barnier, a terrifying creature with a foul stench of creamy soft cheese. Roll a dice to do battle. If you roll a 1, you die and must go back to the start. If it’s 2-6 go to 5. 4) You turn into a Remoaner, a slimy creature that refuses to see the many benefits of Brexit. You stay here forever, eating raw fish heads in the dark. THE END. 5) You kill the Barnier with your trusty WW2 bayonet. Villagers flock round saying “Thank you, brave Brexiteer!” and give you roast beef sandwiches. Go to 6. 6) You reach a fork in the road. A sign pointing left says ‘Hellish Multicultural Immigrant Land’. The one pointing the other way says ‘Brexit’. If you turn left go to 2. If you turn right go to 7. 7) You have reached Brexit Fantasy Land! Unicorns are gamboling on the sunlit uplands, everyone is white and Germany has collapsed. You get the odd feeling you’re in a weird, jingoistic delusion. If you ignore it, go to 8. If you realise Brexit is bullshit, go to 9. 8) You live happily in Brexit Fantasy Land. However one day Brexit actually happens and Britain leaves the EU. Go to 9. 9) Shit! You have entered reality! The economy is fucked, Sainsbury’s never has any courgettes and everyone is blaming everyone else for all eternity. THE END." | |||
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"you contributed to us leaving without a deal so stop moaning and lets get Britain going forward again" You keep peddling this lie when it's been proven time and time again it's the hardcore leavers and dup who blocked a deal. | |||
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"A deal is best but looks as though we will not get one,so we leave and gert on with it.In the long run it will be worhtwhile.It is certain there will be no going back so you sad moaners get used to it,you contributed to us leaving without a deal so stop moaning and lets get Britain going forward again" In the long run... Get Britain going forward again... probably neither of which, judging by your age, you'll be around to see if the timescales published are to be believed... Typical brexiteer, blaming the people that don't want to leave for not getting a deal. | |||
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"A deal is best but looks as though we will not get one,so we leave and gert on with it.In the long run it will be worhtwhile.It is certain there will be no going back so you sad moaners get used to it,you contributed to us leaving without a deal so stop moaning and lets get Britain going forward again In the long run... Get Britain going forward again... probably neither of which, judging by your age, you'll be around to see if the timescales published are to be believed... Typical brexiteer, blaming the people that don't want to leave for not getting a deal." | |||
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"A deal is best but looks as though we will not get one,so we leave and gert on with it.In the long run it will be worhtwhile.It is certain there will be no going back so you sad moaners get used to it,you contributed to us leaving without a deal so stop moaning and lets get Britain going forward again In the long run... Get Britain going forward again... probably neither of which, judging by your age, you'll be around to see if the timescales published are to be believed... Typical brexiteer, blaming the people that don't want to leave for not getting a deal." That's the general theme though, many leavers blame everything on others, foreigners, un-nameable Countries that rule us etc etc so when Brexit has become the shit mess we've been saying it would be for over 3 years their only staying true to form and blaming others instead of thinking about their own actions | |||
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"A deal is best but looks as though we will not get one,so we leave and gert on with it.In the long run it will be worhtwhile.It is certain there will be no going back so you sad moaners get used to it,you contributed to us leaving without a deal so stop moaning and lets get Britain going forward again In the long run... Get Britain going forward again... probably neither of which, judging by your age, you'll be around to see if the timescales published are to be believed... Typical brexiteer, blaming the people that don't want to leave for not getting a deal. That's the general theme though, many leavers blame everything on others, foreigners, un-nameable Countries that rule us etc etc so when Brexit has become the shit mess we've been saying it would be for over 3 years their only staying true to form and blaming others instead of thinking about their own actions " | |||
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