FabSwingers.com forum: effigy & immolation

By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

I heard today there is a place in SE England burning an effigy of Boris Johnson on their bonfire.

Now, I am no fan of Mr Johnson. But am I the only who finds it distasteful?

Whatever else he might, I do not think he is a terrorist.

Which is what the immolation of an effigy is all about.

Isn't it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I heard today there is a place in SE England burning an effigy of Boris Johnson on their bonfire.

Now, I am no fan of Mr Johnson. But am I the only who finds it distasteful?

Whatever else he might, I do not think he is a terrorist.

Which is what the immolation of an effigy is all about.

Isn't it?

Where / how have you got "Terrorist" from the burning of a Boris Johnson Effigy ?

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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Where / how have you got "Terrorist" from the burning of a Boris Johnson Effigy ?"

Guy Fawkes.

According to history, he planted a bomb beneath the Houses of Parliament.

Caught, convicted and immolated.

The powers-that-be decided it should serve as a reminder to the population at large that you do not overthrow the establishment.

So on every anniversary we "celebrate" the execution of the original terrorist.

Guy Fawkes.

It's a tradition that has lasted, but I suspect few warming their tootsies on the flames have any idea where it came from.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The burning of an effigy of Guy Fawkes may have been the first ever I don't know but people the world over burn effigies of people as a sign of contempt and protest, not because they think their a terrorist lol

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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

From history.com:

"The Gunpowder Plot was a failed attempt to blow up England’s King James I (1566-1625) and the Parliament on November 5, 1605. The plot was organized by Robert Catesby (c.1572-1605) in an effort to end the persecution of Roman Catholics by the English government. Catesby and others hoped to replace the country’s Protestant government with Catholic leadership. Around midnight on November 4, 1605, one of the conspirators, Guy Fawkes (1570-1606), was discovered in the cellar of the Parliament building with barrels of gunpowder. Fawkes and other men involved in the plot were tried and executed for treason. Every November 5, the British celebrate Guy Fawkes Day by burning Fawkes in effigy."

We recoiled in disgust when ISIS immolated people. Yet every Nov 5, we celebrate it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"From history.com:

We recoiled in disgust when ISIS immolated people. Yet every Nov 5, we celebrate it.

Yes yes, I think everyone here knows who Guy Fawkes is but you do realise, by burning the effigy of Guy Fawkes we are celebrating that he failed to blow up the King.

I really don't get your ISIS link though.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"From history.com:

We recoiled in disgust when ISIS immolated people. Yet every Nov 5, we celebrate it.

Because it’s 2018 and the rest of us have moved on but isis want everyone back in the dark ages

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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

England was not what you would call a democracy in 1605.

A totalitarian theocracy more like.

The persecuted minority, loyal to Rome, decided to detonate a bomb.

Literally.

Beneath the chamber of the elite.

The original terrorist.

What other word would you use by today's standards?

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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Because it’s 2018 and the rest of us have moved on but isis want everyone back in the dark ages "

So why in 2018 do we celebrate the immolation of a person?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Because it’s 2018 and the rest of us have moved on but isis want everyone back in the dark ages

So why in 2018 do we celebrate the immolation of a person?

He wasn't immolated though.....

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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Because it’s 2018 and the rest of us have moved on but isis want everyone back in the dark ages

So why in 2018 do we celebrate the immolation of a person?

He wasn't immolated though....."

Hung, drawn and quartered, I believe.

Not sure which is the better way to die.

Both are pretty painful.

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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

History.com again:

Gunpowder Plot: Aftermath

Fawkes and the other surviving chief conspirators were sentenced to be hanged, drawn and quartered in London. Moments before the start of his execution, on January 31, 1606, Fawkes jumped from a ladder while climbing to the gallows, breaking his neck and dying.

Following the failed Gunpowder Plot, new laws were instituted in England that eliminated the right of Catholics to vote, among other repressive restrictions.

Guy Fawkes Night

In 1606, Parliament established November 5 as a day of public thanksgiving. Guy Fawkes Night (also referred to as Guy Fawkes Day and Bonfire Night) now is celebrated annually across Great Britain on November 5 in remembrance of the Gunpowder Plot. As dusk falls, villagers and city dwellers across Britain light bonfires, set off fireworks and burn effigies of Fawkes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Because it’s 2018 and the rest of us have moved on but isis want everyone back in the dark ages

So why in 2018 do we celebrate the immolation of a person?

He wasn't immolated though.....

Hung, drawn and quartered, I believe.

Not sure which is the better way to die.

Both are pretty painful.

He jumped off the scaffolding while climbing up & broke his neck so I think he got off exceedingly lightly.

Anyway, he was sentenced to the penalty that came with the crime he committed.

I'm at a bit of a loss as to what exactly you're trying to get at here in this thread TBH.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"England was not what you would call a democracy in 1605.

A totalitarian theocracy more like.

The persecuted minority, loyal to Rome, decided to detonate a bomb.

Literally.

Beneath the chamber of the elite.

The original terrorist.

What other word would you use by today's standards?

I was on about you linking the effigy burning of Boris Johnson as to say the act of doing so was to accuse him of terrorism.

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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"England was not what you would call a democracy in 1605.

A totalitarian theocracy more like.

The persecuted minority, loyal to Rome, decided to detonate a bomb.

Literally.

Beneath the chamber of the elite.

The original terrorist.

What other word would you use by today's standards?

I was on about you linking the effigy burning of Boris Johnson as to say the act of doing so was to accuse him of terrorism."

No, I just find it distasteful.

The burning alive of anyone.

Especially someone who is still alive and kicking.

Albeit in an effigy.

We enjoy it without thinking about it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

400 years later and we still haven't forgiven Guy Fawkes as I watched him burn tonight.

Do you think we'll forgive ever forgive the brexiters....Not a chance...

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

I believe this is happening in Edenbridge.

The Sussex town of Lewes has a history of burning an effigy of a famous person during their famous fireworks celebrations.

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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Saturday night, and I should really be thinking about sex rather than history.

Just every time i pop out the back for a cigarette, feckin fireworks going off in every direction.

It got me thinking as to why people do it.

412 years in a row.

Must be an Engiish thing.

And as a non-English person, I can now go back to thinking about sex.

That doesn't hurt my brain.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Saturday night, and I should really be thinking about sex rather than history.

Just every time i pop out the back for a cigarette, feckin fireworks going off in every direction.

It got me thinking as to why people do it.

412 years in a row.

Must be an Engiish thing.

And as a non-English person, I can now go back to thinking about sex.

That doesn't hurt my brain.

I can easily think about other things in-between thinking about sex

quite the multi tasker

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"400 years later and we still haven't forgiven Guy Fawkes as I watched him burn tonight.

Do you think we'll forgive ever forgive the brexiters....Not a chance...

IF brexit is a huge success - if course we will - we are a fickle lot!

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

It seems to me that just maybe there is a very serious warning in this act for BoJo, JRM, Nige and the other slimy self promoting, self interested politicians who put self and party before country. That is: That is that any people that 400 years still celebrate burning a traitor for attempting to destroy parliament and 450 years on still commemorate/celebrate cutting the head off a King who split our country in 2 we are quite capable of doing the same to 2 bit politicians who do the similar.

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

Because it’s 2018 and the rest of us have moved on but isis want everyone back in the dark ages

So why in 2018 do we celebrate the immolation of a person?

I don't think the Gunpowder plotters were burned to death, from memory I think they were hung, drawn and quatered.

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By *ara J OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Because it’s 2018 and the rest of us have moved on but isis want everyone back in the dark ages

So why in 2018 do we celebrate the immolation of a person?

I don't think the Gunpowder plotters were burned to death, from memory I think they were hung, drawn and quatered."

Yes, that's right. Except Fawkes escaped such a horrible death by leaping from the gallows and breaking his neck!

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

Because it’s 2018 and the rest of us have moved on but isis want everyone back in the dark ages

So why in 2018 do we celebrate the immolation of a person?

Lots of worse ways of dying than being hung, dont think he would have been bothered about the second two parts of the process, and in any case Fawkes wasnt killed by immolation nor was it ever intended that he was to be

I don't think the Gunpowder plotters were burned to death, from memory I think they were hung, drawn and quatered.

Yes, that's right. Except Fawkes escaped such a horrible death by leaping from the gallows and breaking his neck!

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

[Removed by poster at 04/11/18 14:16:12]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I believe this is happening in Edenbridge.

The Sussex town of Lewes has a history of burning an effigy of a famous person during their famous fireworks celebrations."

Yeah, but don’t waste your time trying to get into Lewes on Bonfire Night. It only has one train line, one A road in, and hardly any car parks. They take the fifth of November very seriously, a councillor once got the boot for criticising the occasion....

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"I heard today there is a place in SE England burning an effigy of Boris Johnson on their bonfire.

Now, I am no fan of Mr Johnson. But am I the only who finds it distasteful?

Whatever else he might, I do not think he is a terrorist.

Which is what the immolation of an effigy is all about.

Isn't it?

There is a Festival that goes on in parts of Spain (Valencia province for sure - maybe others too) and it is called Fallas (Fayas) or something similar.

Essentially each district of each town constructs a wooden and mache figurine and the best one wins a prize before they are all burned down.

Local criminals and politicians as well as national and international figures often get lampooned in these effigies.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

After the failed Gunpowder Plot the effigies that were burnt on fires were of The Pope as a warning to all Catholics they would meet the same fate as Fawkes.

The rounding up and executing of Catholics in the UK continued until 1888.

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By *verysmileMan
over a year ago

Canterbury

Because it’s 2018 and the rest of us have moved on but isis want everyone back in the dark ages

So why in 2018 do we celebrate the immolation of a person?

He wasn't immolated though.....

Hung, drawn and quartered, I believe.

Not sure which is the better way to die.

Both are pretty painful.

He jumped heavily and broke his neck before they could do the rest....

Other plotters were not so lucky.

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