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"Fuck me.... £1.8 trillion in debt and the deficit still running at 2% of GDP (or £40 billion a year - give or take a few £billion) How is that going to work then?" Yeah it’s a fucking joke. Not a single Tory has any clue what it’s like to be a normal person in this day and age. | |||
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"Fuck me.... £1.8 trillion in debt and the deficit still running at 2% of GDP (or £40 billion a year - give or take a few £billion) How is that going to work then? Yeah it’s a fucking joke. Not a single Tory has any clue what it’s like to be a normal person in this day and age." As more people voted for the Conservative party than any other party, you can safely assume that anyone supporting the Conservatives knows exactly what it is like to be an ordinary person. If this was not the case , they would be unlikely to be returned to power so regularly. | |||
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"Fuck me.... £1.8 trillion in debt and the deficit still running at 2% of GDP (or £40 billion a year - give or take a few £billion) How is that going to work then? Yeah it’s a fucking joke. Not a single Tory has any clue what it’s like to be a normal person in this day and age. As more people voted for the Conservative party than any other party, you can safely assume that anyone supporting the Conservatives knows exactly what it is like to be an ordinary person. If this was not the case , they would be unlikely to be returned to power so regularly. " Logic isnt really your strong suit is it? | |||
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"Fuck me.... £1.8 trillion in debt and the deficit still running at 2% of GDP (or £40 billion a year - give or take a few £billion) How is that going to work then? Yeah it’s a fucking joke. Not a single Tory has any clue what it’s like to be a normal person in this day and age. As more people voted for the Conservative party than any other party, you can safely assume that anyone supporting the Conservatives knows exactly what it is like to be an ordinary person. If this was not the case , they would be unlikely to be returned to power so regularly. " As we learned over the past few years, the general public can easily be fooled into voting against their own best interests. | |||
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"Fuck me.... £1.8 trillion in debt and the deficit still running at 2% of GDP (or £40 billion a year - give or take a few £billion) How is that going to work then? Yeah it’s a fucking joke. Not a single Tory has any clue what it’s like to be a normal person in this day and age. As more people voted for the Conservative party than any other party, you can safely assume that anyone supporting the Conservatives knows exactly what it is like to be an ordinary person. If this was not the case , they would be unlikely to be returned to power so regularly. Logic isnt really your strong suit is it?" But he does have a point. | |||
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"Fuck me.... £1.8 trillion in debt and the deficit still running at 2% of GDP (or £40 billion a year - give or take a few £billion) How is that going to work then?" Maybe they have decided that they are no longer going to transfer wealth from the poor, working and middle classes to the mega wealthy and multinational corporations (until they have conned their way back into power the next general election, when it will be a return to business as usual). | |||
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"Fuck me.... £1.8 trillion in debt and the deficit still running at 2% of GDP (or £40 billion a year - give or take a few £billion) How is that going to work then? Maybe they have decided that they are no longer going to transfer wealth from the poor, working and middle classes to the mega wealthy and multinational corporations (until they have conned their way back into power the next general election, when it will be a return to business as usual)." You know Will that's far too dramatic - (aside from taxes, and extreme hyperinflation events) no one is dipping a hand in your bank account! People are where they are: 1. Where they started 2. Where every decision they made has brought them If they are transferring their wealth by buying junk from multinationals, that's their choice. | |||
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"Fuck me.... £1.8 trillion in debt and the deficit still running at 2% of GDP (or £40 billion a year - give or take a few £billion) How is that going to work then? Yeah it’s a fucking joke. Not a single Tory has any clue what it’s like to be a normal person in this day and age. As more people voted for the Conservative party than any other party, you can safely assume that anyone supporting the Conservatives knows exactly what it is like to be an ordinary person. If this was not the case , they would be unlikely to be returned to power so regularly. Logic isnt really your strong suit is it? But he does have a point." Only if you assume that by 'Tory' the poster who wrote this meant 'Tory voter' rather than 'Tory MP'. Which would be a silly assumption, I'd say. | |||
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"You know Will that's far too dramatic - (aside from taxes, and extreme hyperinflation events) no one is dipping a hand in your bank account! People are where they are: 1. Where they started 2. Where every decision they made has brought them If they are transferring their wealth by buying junk from multinationals, that's their choice. " Really? National debt (what is owed by every single person in the UK) has over doubled in the last 8 years, while investment has been slashed, I wonder where all that money has gone? While at the same time real incomes (after adjustment for inflation) of the bottom 90% of the population have reduced by between 15 and 20% with the poorest being hit the hardest, while the top 10% have doubled their wealth. Maybe you could hazard a guess? Do you think that what has gone from government investment and from the incomes of the majority might balance what has been gained by the mega rich and corporations? How bad do things have to get before you think the reality of Tory policy needs to be described in stark terms? Remember it is three times now in the last 8 and a half years the Tories have made promises before a general election in their manifesto to immediately drop them after securing power. So why should they change a winning formula? After all they have managed to convince the British people that JC and his supporters (I'm one) are the loony left (although I have yet to meet anyone who is against Labours economic, NHS, transport or education policies) and can't be trusted, while they (the Tories) fuck everyone but the mega rich over. Or do you consider me pointing out that truth is also too dramatic? | |||
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"You know Will that's far too dramatic - (aside from taxes, and extreme hyperinflation events) no one is dipping a hand in your bank account! People are where they are: 1. Where they started 2. Where every decision they made has brought them If they are transferring their wealth by buying junk from multinationals, that's their choice. Really? National debt (what is owed by every single person in the UK) has over doubled in the last 8 years, while investment has been slashed, I wonder where all that money has gone? While at the same time real incomes (after adjustment for inflation) of the bottom 90% of the population have reduced by between 15 and 20% with the poorest being hit the hardest, while the top 10% have doubled their wealth. Maybe you could hazard a guess? Do you think that what has gone from government investment and from the incomes of the majority might balance what has been gained by the mega rich and corporations? How bad do things have to get before you think the reality of Tory policy needs to be described in stark terms? Remember it is three times now in the last 8 and a half years the Tories have made promises before a general election in their manifesto to immediately drop them after securing power. So why should they change a winning formula? After all they have managed to convince the British people that JC and his supporters (I'm one) are the loony left (although I have yet to meet anyone who is against Labours economic, NHS, transport or education policies) and can't be trusted, while they (the Tories) fuck everyone but the mega rich over. Or do you consider me pointing out that truth is also too dramatic?" It might be more relavent to quote National Debt as against GDP. This is what economists look at. And that figure is +18% over the last 8 years. | |||
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"Before everyone Moans about the Conservative party Remember Labour were in power when we went to war in Iraq Labour introduced university fees Labour left us in this mess " How long since the last labour goverment ?,and the right still blame them for everything . Tell me which decade the conservatives will put their hands down their twisted panties and find their balls and accept responsibility for at least one decision they've made . My guess is never. Man the fuck up and acknowledge responsibility for fucks sake ,you're in bloody power..  | |||
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"Fuck me.... £1.8 trillion in debt and the deficit still running at 2% of GDP (or £40 billion a year - give or take a few £billion) How is that going to work then? Yeah it’s a fucking joke. Not a single Tory has any clue what it’s like to be a normal person in this day and age." its not just the Tories though .its the whole bloody lot of MPS. None live in the real world | |||
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"I think it's a massive simplification to assume that it's a zero sum game as you depict it. You have a chip on your shoulder about the ultrawealthy - classic socialism - hatred for the rich is a stronger force than compassion for the poor. You'd make a good tabloid writer. It all sounds fancy and credible but it's one dimensional. " No chip (or chips) on my shoulder. Fact is I was and am very privileged to have had a very expensive (catholic) education, and the most enduring lessons that I was taught are that you help those worse off and less powerful than yourself and you never make those less fortunate than yourself pay for your mistakes. I look at the UK and I see a country where the poor and powerless are made pay for the mistakes of the rich and powerful, while all the time I am reminded of Winston Churchill's words during WW2 on the subject: "The rich will have to pay too" when purchase tax on all non essential goods was set at 66.6%. "Your viewpoint acts as if the "invisible hand" of government is the only driving force in people's life's. Personal decision making is the number one determinant of life outcomes. Do you disagree? " Yes, I totally refute your postulation. The dominant forces in anyone's life are their socio-economic environment, nutrition, nurture and education in their formative years. Fact is that while we had a healthy, well funded social care and education system average health, IQ and the countries relative prosperity increased year on year and generationally aspiration levels improved as did social cohesion and mobility. Over the last 35 to 40 years we have seen an accelerating reversal of these trends as the funding of social care and mass education has been squeezed until we get to see massive drops across the board due to the effects of austerity. That you have somehow come to believe that the poor are mainly responsible for their own hardship shows just how effective the mega riches indoctrination machine, and the reduction in educational standards have been in producing a population who are just well enough trained to carry out the tasks required but not well enough educated to understand that year on year they are being impoverished while slowly being returned to the status of serfdom. | |||
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"I think it's a massive simplification to assume that it's a zero sum game as you depict it. You have a chip on your shoulder about the ultrawealthy - classic socialism - hatred for the rich is a stronger force than compassion for the poor. You'd make a good tabloid writer. It all sounds fancy and credible but it's one dimensional. No chip (or chips) on my shoulder. Fact is I was and am very privileged to have had a very expensive (catholic) education, and the most enduring lessons that I was taught are that you help those worse off and less powerful than yourself and you never make those less fortunate than yourself pay for your mistakes. I look at the UK and I see a country where the poor and powerless are made pay for the mistakes of the rich and powerful, while all the time I am reminded of Winston Churchill's words during WW2 on the subject: "The rich will have to pay too" when purchase tax on all non essential goods was set at 66.6%. Your viewpoint acts as if the "invisible hand" of government is the only driving force in people's life's. Personal decision making is the number one determinant of life outcomes. Do you disagree? Yes, I totally refute your postulation. The dominant forces in anyone's life are their socio-economic environment, nutrition, nurture and education in their formative years. Fact is that while we had a healthy, well funded social care and education system average health, IQ and the countries relative prosperity increased year on year and generationally aspiration levels improved as did social cohesion and mobility. Over the last 35 to 40 years we have seen an accelerating reversal of these trends as the funding of social care and mass education has been squeezed until we get to see massive drops across the board due to the effects of austerity. That you have somehow come to believe that the poor are mainly responsible for their own hardship shows just how effective the mega riches indoctrination machine, and the reduction in educational standards have been in producing a population who are just well enough trained to carry out the tasks required but not well enough educated to understand that year on year they are being impoverished while slowly being returned to the status of serfdom."  | |||
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"Before everyone Moans about the Conservative party Remember Labour were in power when we went to war in Iraq Labour introduced university fees Labour left us in this mess How long since the last labour goverment ?,and the right still blame them for everything . Tell me which decade the conservatives will put their hands down their twisted panties and find their balls and accept responsibility for at least one decision they've made . My guess is never. Man the fuck up and acknowledge responsibility for fucks sake ,you're in bloody power.. "No one here is responsible for anything. Although people generally get the politicians they deserve. | |||
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"I think it's a massive simplification to assume that it's a zero sum game as you depict it. You have a chip on your shoulder about the ultrawealthy - classic socialism - hatred for the rich is a stronger force than compassion for the poor. You'd make a good tabloid writer. It all sounds fancy and credible but it's one dimensional. No chip (or chips) on my shoulder. Fact is I was and am very privileged to have had a very expensive (catholic) education, and the most enduring lessons that I was taught are that you help those worse off and less powerful than yourself and you never make those less fortunate than yourself pay for your mistakes. I look at the UK and I see a country where the poor and powerless are made pay for the mistakes of the rich and powerful, while all the time I am reminded of Winston Churchill's words during WW2 on the subject: "The rich will have to pay too" when purchase tax on all non essential goods was set at 66.6%. Your viewpoint acts as if the "invisible hand" of government is the only driving force in people's life's. Personal decision making is the number one determinant of life outcomes. Do you disagree? Yes, I totally refute your postulation. The dominant forces in anyone's life are their socio-economic environment, nutrition, nurture and education in their formative years. Fact is that while we had a healthy, well funded social care and education system average health, IQ and the countries relative prosperity increased year on year and generationally aspiration levels improved as did social cohesion and mobility. Over the last 35 to 40 years we have seen an accelerating reversal of these trends as the funding of social care and mass education has been squeezed until we get to see massive drops across the board due to the effects of austerity. That you have somehow come to believe that the poor are mainly responsible for their own hardship shows just how effective the mega riches indoctrination machine, and the reduction in educational standards have been in producing a population who are just well enough trained to carry out the tasks required but not well enough educated to understand that year on year they are being impoverished while slowly being returned to the status of serfdom." Depends if you choose to live on a treadmill eh Your view is only sensible if everybody has a broadly similar life outcome. This is certainly not the case in 2018. Taking a bigger view, they are all just side effects of the long term demise of the United Kingdom now that it doesn't have developing countries to bleed for resources and still engages in pointless foreign wars at huge expense. | |||
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"No one here is responsible for anything. Although people generally get the politicians they deserve. " Really? So our current economic weakness and financial woes are not the fault of an out of control banking and financial services industry that corruptly used and is using investors money to manipulate markets to enrich its executives. And this was not brought about by the deregulation of banking and financial services by politicians in the pay of those same executives. And before you tell me that the results of deregulation could not have been foreseen please go read a little economic history and find out how regulation first came about and why it was continually strengthened until Thatcher and Regan arrived on the scene. Fact is we have returned to the economics (including PPI's) of the South Sea Bubble and with the same disastrous results. But hey, what do I know. I'm a loony lefty (even though I believe in a highly regulated mixed market economy). | |||
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I agree with you, I'm more left winged but believe in (modest) capitalism as the only vector for universal prosperity.
I just dont buy this victim mindset you are peddling while obsessing over the ultrawealthy as if they directly control you like a puppet. It's simple not reflective of reality. We all have agency...that's not indoctrination, it is the common sense to worry about what you can control and don't worry about what you can't.
You can choose to be a slave or choose to be free.
The latter is much harder than the former... obviously but perfectly achievable in 2018 for anyone with Google and a work ethic.
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"An analogy you should get: Did you complain about the situation (roll over and die) when you were at war or did you accept reality and react accordingly (attack/defend/improvise as required)? " WTF! You really do not get it! When I and my unit moved (either as ordered or in response to enemy activity) we all moved together, there was no 'everyone for themselves'! And when tasked to route-find for and guide other formations ensuring they remained operational we spent our time helping those that most needed our help. And that included carrying their kit when necessary! And just to be clear, my unit was not in any way special in doing this, EVERY UNIT I have ever come across has done the same! | |||
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"Two Conservative chancellors have run up more debt between them than every single Labour government in history combined. What is it now, £2 trillion? The interest alone is something like £50 billion a year. Who is going to clear up their mess?" . All because some idiots voted in a labour government who spent wildly while not giving two shits about the future, the massive deficit they left is with while Tony Blair ran off making hundreds of millions a year didn't just miraculously stop when labour was thankfully voted out, it's only just been slightly curtailed by Tory policies. Labour oversaw the biggest financial fuck up in history, only an absolute maniac or a moron would give them another chance of writing another letter saying, sorry moneys all gone tee-hee. | |||
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"Two Conservative chancellors have run up more debt between them than every single Labour government in history combined. What is it now, £2 trillion? The interest alone is something like £50 billion a year. Who is going to clear up their mess?. All because some idiots voted in a labour government who spent wildly while not giving two shits about the future, the massive deficit they left is with while Tony Blair ran off making hundreds of millions a year didn't just miraculously stop when labour was thankfully voted out, it's only just been slightly curtailed by Tory policies. Labour oversaw the biggest financial fuck up in history, only an absolute maniac or a moron would give them another chance of writing another letter saying, sorry moneys all gone tee-hee. "Actually you could pose the question: Who sold off the "family silver" - sale of nationalised industries and who squandered the "north sea oil"? The UK should be one of the best countries in the World - instead our infrastructure is poor - take a look at Norway - who used the "new wealth" the best? | |||
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"Yeah but you didn't complain that your enemies were armed or acting against your best interests etc. That's the analogy ...you got on with things. Even if you start life with a headwind the world isn't against you like you think. " But it is not the correct analogy. If you want a correct analogy, it would be that Brig Thompson had systematically issued the majority of ammunition to himself and reduced that issued to those under his command to the absolute minimum for the rank and file with a little more to junior NCO's and so on up the ranks. The fact is executives and directors are not wealth creators and market expanders it is the rank and file worker who increases demand and grows economies, and I am afraid you are so totally indoctrinated that nothing I can ever say will convince you otherwise. The proof of that is how you are able to dismiss everything I say that you have no answer for and plough on without addressing my underlying message. | |||
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"Two Conservative chancellors have run up more debt between them than every single Labour government in history combined. What is it now, £2 trillion? The interest alone is something like £50 billion a year. Who is going to clear up their mess?. All because some idiots voted in a labour government who spent wildly while not giving two shits about the future, the massive deficit they left is with while Tony Blair ran off making hundreds of millions a year didn't just miraculously stop when labour was thankfully voted out, it's only just been slightly curtailed by Tory policies. Labour oversaw the biggest financial fuck up in history, only an absolute maniac or a moron would give them another chance of writing another letter saying, sorry moneys all gone tee-hee. "Let's start with the banks. They fucked up big style, discovered their balance sheets were false and stopped the money tap. The economy runs on debt, so when the banks stop lending the money runs out. I seem to recall the emergency measures taken by Gordon Brown were supported by the Conservative Party. Programmes like the car scrappage scheme to keep the motor industry afloat etc etc. Yes, there was a budget deficit as a result. Austerity, we were told, was needed to balance the books by 2015. Both Labour and Conservative Parties promised voters they would balance the books by 2015. Eight years later and the Conservative Party failed to deliver on successive manifesto pledges to balance the books. Sure, it stopped spending money on people in need. But instead of using that to balance the books, it cut the taxes paid by their chums. The promises to regulate the greed of the City abandoned, too. Hardly surprising really when the Party is bankrolled by the City and is run by people with the City on their CVs. The policies of the UK government in 2018 are those of the Conservative Party, not Labour, so instead of deflecting blame you might try to justify them. | |||
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"Fuck me.... £1.8 trillion in debt and the deficit still running at 2% of GDP (or £40 billion a year - give or take a few £billion) How is that going to work then? Yeah it’s a fucking joke. Not a single Tory has any clue what it’s like to be a normal person in this day and age. As more people voted for the Conservative party than any other party, you can safely assume that anyone supporting the Conservatives knows exactly what it is like to be an ordinary person. If this was not the case , they would be unlikely to be returned to power so regularly. " So very true | |||
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"Yeah but you didn't complain that your enemies were armed or acting against your best interests etc. That's the analogy ...you got on with things. Even if you start life with a headwind the world isn't against you like you think. But it is not the correct analogy. If you want a correct analogy, it would be that Brig Thompson had systematically issued the majority of ammunition to himself and reduced that issued to those under his command to the absolute minimum for the rank and file with a little more to junior NCO's and so on up the ranks. The fact is executives and directors are not wealth creators and market expanders it is the rank and file worker who increases demand and grows economies, and I am afraid you are so totally indoctrinated that nothing I can ever say will convince you otherwise. The proof of that is how you are able to dismiss everything I say that you have no answer for and plough on without addressing my underlying message." More rubbish | |||
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"Two Conservative chancellors have run up more debt between them than every single Labour government in history combined. What is it now, £2 trillion? The interest alone is something like £50 billion a year. Who is going to clear up their mess?. All because some idiots voted in a labour government who spent wildly while not giving two shits about the future, the massive deficit they left is with while Tony Blair ran off making hundreds of millions a year didn't just miraculously stop when labour was thankfully voted out, it's only just been slightly curtailed by Tory policies. Labour oversaw the biggest financial fuck up in history, only an absolute maniac or a moron would give them another chance of writing another letter saying, sorry moneys all gone tee-hee.
Let's start with the banks.
They fucked up big style, discovered their balance sheets were false and stopped the money tap.
The economy runs on debt, so when the banks stop lending the money runs out.
I seem to recall the emergency measures taken by Gordon Brown were supported by the Conservative Party.
Programmes like the car scrappage scheme to keep the motor industry afloat etc etc.
Yes, there was a budget deficit as a result.
Austerity, we were told, was needed to balance the books by 2015.
Both Labour and Conservative Parties promised voters they would balance the books by 2015.
Eight years later and the Conservative Party failed to deliver on successive manifesto pledges to balance the books.
Sure, it stopped spending money on people in need. But instead of using that to balance the books, it cut the taxes paid by their chums.
The promises to regulate the greed of the City abandoned, too.
Hardly surprising really when the Party is bankrolled by the City and is run by people with the City on their CVs.
The policies of the UK government in 2018 are those of the Conservative Party, not Labour, so instead of deflecting blame you might try to justify them.
". It was labour chancellor Gordon brown who let the banks run wild!, I'm sorry but declaring all this current debt as a Tory problem is just wrong, labour was running a big deficit before the banks went crazy and they ran a massive deficit after they went crazy, budget deficits don't just disappear when people finally see sense and vote labour out, they continue for years and years, in this case decades, I mean sure the Tory party could have cut services really severely to cure the deficit problem but they didn't, they went for a long term small cut to services and deficit (which I'd like to point out the left has not stopped harping on about despite it being there actual fault). | |||
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"You know Will that's far too dramatic - (aside from taxes, and extreme hyperinflation events) no one is dipping a hand in your bank account! People are where they are: 1. Where they started 2. Where every decision they made has brought them If they are transferring their wealth by buying junk from multinationals, that's their choice. Really? National debt (what is owed by every single person in the UK) has over doubled in the last 8 years, while investment has been slashed, I wonder where all that money has gone? While at the same time real incomes (after adjustment for inflation) of the bottom 90% of the population have reduced by between 15 and 20% with the poorest being hit the hardest, while the top 10% have doubled their wealth. Maybe you could hazard a guess? Do you think that what has gone from government investment and from the incomes of the majority might balance what has been gained by the mega rich and corporations? How bad do things have to get before you think the reality of Tory policy needs to be described in stark terms? Remember it is three times now in the last 8 and a half years the Tories have made promises before a general election in their manifesto to immediately drop them after securing power. So why should they change a winning formula? After all they have managed to convince the British people that JC and his supporters (I'm one) are the loony left (although I have yet to meet anyone who is against Labours economic, NHS, transport or education policies) and can't be trusted, while they (the Tories) fuck everyone but the mega rich over. Or do you consider me pointing out that truth is also too dramatic?" | |||
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"Fuck me.... £1.8 trillion in debt and the deficit still running at 2% of GDP (or £40 billion a year - give or take a few £billion) How is that going to work then? Yeah it’s a fucking joke. Not a single Tory has any clue what it’s like to be a normal person in this day and age. As more people voted for the Conservative party than any other party, you can safely assume that anyone supporting the Conservatives knows exactly what it is like to be an ordinary person. If this was not the case , they would be unlikely to be returned to power so regularly. Logic isnt really your strong suit is it? But he does have a point." No he doesn't. Also; we don't have proportional representation, so more people didn't vote conservative than for any other party. | |||
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"The trouble with the left is they have no idea about money and are to wrapped in feelings to say I'm sorry but we just can't afford it. They want to spend trillions bailing out car firms, banks, finance and big business, run massive deficits, spend fortunes on stuff we can't afford, spend money privatising everything (I wasn't personally in favour of some privatisation but what's done is done) without thinking about balance sheets, we'll just borrow or tax the rich, meh not being funny but the rich just leave and eventually borrowing just costs you a fortune in interest. Real hard decisions come from actually deciding on what not to spend on and let's be honest, nobody thanks you for it!." Funny though, isn't it that Labour's manifesto was the only costed one at the last GE, Corbyn has managed to wipe off the Labour Party debt and austerity has been an abject failure in reducing the national debt. All it has done is placed more money in the hands of the ultra-wealthy. | |||
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"The trouble with the left is they have no idea about money and are to wrapped in feelings to say I'm sorry but we just can't afford it. They want to spend trillions bailing out car firms, banks, finance and big business, run massive deficits, spend fortunes on stuff we can't afford, spend money privatising everything (I wasn't personally in favour of some privatisation but what's done is done) without thinking about balance sheets, we'll just borrow or tax the rich, meh not being funny but the rich just leave and eventually borrowing just costs you a fortune in interest. Real hard decisions come from actually deciding on what not to spend on and let's be honest, nobody thanks you for it!." The idea of a nationalised industry is the profits go into the public purse amd not some rich elite's pockets. JC Aknowledges the mistakes of the past and has new methods of how a nationalised industry would function., unfortunately your closed minded enough to not even consider what he says. | |||
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"More rubbish" And another total dismissal. Just out of interest how many of the approximately 2.5 million vehicle units registered in 2017 were bought by and for the use of the top 1% of the countries earners who have doubled their wealth in the last 8 years? Maybe you could hazard a guess of the number of any other consumer good including food and then explain to us all how its not the mass consumer market (that's those at the bottom not the top 1%) that drives an economy and produces wealth by stimulating production but the mega wealthy that hide the wealth they remove from economies in tax havens where the locals live in total poverty. | |||
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"Fuck me.... £1.8 trillion in debt and the deficit still running at 2% of GDP (or £40 billion a year - give or take a few £billion) How is that going to work then? Yeah it’s a fucking joke. Not a single Tory has any clue what it’s like to be a normal person in this day and age. As more people voted for the Conservative party than any other party, you can safely assume that anyone supporting the Conservatives knows exactly what it is like to be an ordinary person. If this was not the case , they would be unlikely to be returned to power so regularly. Logic isnt really your strong suit is it? But he does have a point. No he doesn't. Also; we don't have proportional representation, so more people didn't vote conservative than for any other party." Unless I am mistaken the Conservative party won the last election and were the party that polled more votes than any other party. A party that represents the people. What matters is not what you post on here, the only result that counts is the one on election day. | |||
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"The trouble with the left is they have no idea about money and are to wrapped in feelings to say I'm sorry but we just can't afford it. They want to spend trillions bailing out car firms, banks, finance and big business, run massive deficits, spend fortunes on stuff we can't afford, spend money privatising everything (I wasn't personally in favour of some privatisation but what's done is done) without thinking about balance sheets, we'll just borrow or tax the rich, meh not being funny but the rich just leave and eventually borrowing just costs you a fortune in interest. Real hard decisions come from actually deciding on what not to spend on and let's be honest, nobody thanks you for it!. The idea of a nationalised industry is the profits go into the public purse amd not some rich elite's pockets. JC Aknowledges the mistakes of the past and has new methods of how a nationalised industry would function., unfortunately your closed minded enough to not even consider what he says. " There is a major problem with nationalisation .... there's fuck all left to nationalise !!! The foreign investors would just pull the plug and go ... which they will probably do post brexit anyway. | |||
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"Fuck me.... £1.8 trillion in debt and the deficit still running at 2% of GDP (or £40 billion a year - give or take a few £billion) How is that going to work then? Yeah it’s a fucking joke. Not a single Tory has any clue what it’s like to be a normal person in this day and age. As more people voted for the Conservative party than any other party, you can safely assume that anyone supporting the Conservatives knows exactly what it is like to be an ordinary person. If this was not the case , they would be unlikely to be returned to power so regularly. Logic isnt really your strong suit is it? But he does have a point. No he doesn't. Also; we don't have proportional representation, so more people didn't vote conservative than for any other party. Unless I am mistaken the Conservative party won the last election and were the party that polled more votes than any other party. A party that represents the people. What matters is not what you post on here, the only result that counts is the one on election day." You are mistaken. They won the election, but did not win more votes than any other party. That is not how the first past the post system works, it is how proportional representation works. | |||
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"The trouble with the left is they have no idea about money and are to wrapped in feelings to say I'm sorry but we just can't afford it. They want to spend trillions bailing out car firms, banks, finance and big business, run massive deficits, spend fortunes on stuff we can't afford, spend money privatising everything (I wasn't personally in favour of some privatisation but what's done is done) without thinking about balance sheets, we'll just borrow or tax the rich, meh not being funny but the rich just leave and eventually borrowing just costs you a fortune in interest. Real hard decisions come from actually deciding on what not to spend on and let's be honest, nobody thanks you for it!. Funny though, isn't it that Labour's manifesto was the only costed one at the last GE, Corbyn has managed to wipe off the Labour Party debt and austerity has been an abject failure in reducing the national debt. All it has done is placed more money in the hands of the ultra-wealthy. " . That's because they base it on projections, projections that never actually happen, they always and I mean ALWAYS claim tuppence on this and that will pay for huge massive extras on spending. I guess I'm just old enough to be sceptical on labour spending plans but that doesn't mean I'm against spending on investments in general but in this country were really shit at running stuff properly, I should imagine it would go something like, labour buys the railways back, labour invests in railways, unions demand large pay increases, labour gives large pay increases, unions demand better conditions and holidays and pensions, labour gives it them, unions then demand shorter working week, labour gives it them, unions demand massive pay rise, labour gives them a big one, unions blame private companies for undercutting them, costs of travel sky rocket, standards fall, investments fall, last thing to fall is railway wages. Neighbour looks at person next door who's been a railway guard for 30 years and just retired with great big pension and loads of holidays and thinks wtf am I doing paying loads of bloody taxes while working 45hrs a week with less holidays and no pension. I'll vote conservative!. | |||
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"Yeah but you didn't complain that your enemies were armed or acting against your best interests etc. That's the analogy ...you got on with things. Even if you start life with a headwind the world isn't against you like you think. But it is not the correct analogy. If you want a correct analogy, it would be that Brig Thompson had systematically issued the majority of ammunition to himself and reduced that issued to those under his command to the absolute minimum for the rank and file with a little more to junior NCO's and so on up the ranks. The fact is executives and directors are not wealth creators and market expanders it is the rank and file worker who increases demand and grows economies, and I am afraid you are so totally indoctrinated that nothing I can ever say will convince you otherwise. The proof of that is how you are able to dismiss everything I say that you have no answer for and plough on without addressing my underlying message.More rubbish" Exactly...I have avoided the parts that are just your encamped opinion. Without directors there will be no rank and file anything. You ignore people who start at grass roots and create something and build it and create wealth for themselves and more importantly value of some sort- in the process becoming an evil director in your eyes. | |||
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"The trouble with the left is they have no idea about money and are to wrapped in feelings to say I'm sorry but we just can't afford it. They want to spend trillions bailing out car firms, banks, finance and big business, run massive deficits, spend fortunes on stuff we can't afford, spend money privatising everything (I wasn't personally in favour of some privatisation but what's done is done) without thinking about balance sheets, we'll just borrow or tax the rich, meh not being funny but the rich just leave and eventually borrowing just costs you a fortune in interest. Real hard decisions come from actually deciding on what not to spend on and let's be honest, nobody thanks you for it!. Funny though, isn't it that Labour's manifesto was the only costed one at the last GE, Corbyn has managed to wipe off the Labour Party debt and austerity has been an abject failure in reducing the national debt. All it has done is placed more money in the hands of the ultra-wealthy. . That's because they base it on projections, projections that never actually happen, they always and I mean ALWAYS claim tuppence on this and that will pay for huge massive extras on spending. I guess I'm just old enough to be sceptical on labour spending plans but that doesn't mean I'm against spending on investments in general but in this country were really shit at running stuff properly, I should imagine it would go something like, labour buys the railways back, labour invests in railways, unions demand large pay increases, labour gives large pay increases, unions demand better conditions and holidays and pensions, labour gives it them, unions then demand shorter working week, labour gives it them, unions demand massive pay rise, labour gives them a big one, unions blame private companies for undercutting them, costs of travel sky rocket, standards fall, investments fall, last thing to fall is railway wages. Neighbour looks at person next door who's been a railway guard for 30 years and just retired with great big pension and loads of holidays and thinks wtf am I doing paying loads of bloody taxes while working 45hrs a week with less holidays and no pension. I'll vote conservative!. " The same conservatives who have added billions to the national debt in the name of austerity? We have had Thatcherite conservatism for 40 odd years (yes, I count new Labour in that - sane ideology, except they watered it down a bit) and it hasn't worked. But then, that seems to be a Tory specialty, getting turkeys to vote for Christmas. | |||
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" so we're happyish .... without slagging off every government as if they've thrown them in the gulag." This is exactly the point. Don't be a whingebag, change what you can for yourself, don't sweat what you cant. | |||
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"The left have always been completely unrealistic about realities and the reality is most people want a fair railway ticket price with a fair deal for railway workers. What we call fair and they call fair is where we part company. I have friends who work for the council who still complain about holidays despite getting 29 days a year which is 9 more than the rest of us and the rest of us take some of it to make up the Xmas week holiday and we don't complain to much because we know somebody self employed who doesn't get any, so we're happyish with our 20 without slagging off every government as if they've thrown them in the gulag." He who sings in the rat race choir, Bent out of shape by societies pliers, Cares not to come up any higher, But rather get you down in the hole that he's in..... | |||
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"More rubbish And another total dismissal. Just out of interest how many of the approximately 2.5 million vehicle units registered in 2017 were bought by and for the use of the top 1% of the countries earners who have doubled their wealth in the last 8 years? Maybe you could hazard a guess of the number of any other consumer good including food and then explain to us all how its not the mass consumer market (that's those at the bottom not the top 1%) that drives an economy and produces wealth by stimulating production but the mega wealthy that hide the wealth they remove from economies in tax havens where the locals live in total poverty." What are you saying here? | |||
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"The left have always been completely unrealistic about realities and the reality is most people want a fair railway ticket price with a fair deal for railway workers. What we call fair and they call fair is where we part company. I have friends who work for the council who still complain about holidays despite getting 29 days a year which is 9 more than the rest of us and the rest of us take some of it to make up the Xmas week holiday and we don't complain to much because we know somebody self employed who doesn't get any, so we're happyish with our 20 without slagging off every government as if they've thrown them in the gulag. He who sings in the rat race choir, Bent out of shape by societies pliers, Cares not to come up any higher, But rather get you down in the hole that he's in....." For once we agree | |||
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"More rubbish And another total dismissal. Just out of interest how many of the approximately 2.5 million vehicle units registered in 2017 were bought by and for the use of the top 1% of the countries earners who have doubled their wealth in the last 8 years? Maybe you could hazard a guess of the number of any other consumer good including food and then explain to us all how its not the mass consumer market (that's those at the bottom not the top 1%) that drives an economy and produces wealth by stimulating production but the mega wealthy that hide the wealth they remove from economies in tax havens where the locals live in total poverty. What are you saying here? " The mega wealthy are hoarding, treacherous, parasitic bastards!  | |||
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"More rubbish And another total dismissal. Just out of interest how many of the approximately 2.5 million vehicle units registered in 2017 were bought by and for the use of the top 1% of the countries earners who have doubled their wealth in the last 8 years? Maybe you could hazard a guess of the number of any other consumer good including food and then explain to us all how its not the mass consumer market (that's those at the bottom not the top 1%) that drives an economy and produces wealth by stimulating production but the mega wealthy that hide the wealth they remove from economies in tax havens where the locals live in total poverty. What are you saying here? The mega wealthy are hoarding, treacherous, parasitic bastards! "Preach the truth amen to that! A few However are like Bruce Wayne and tony stark .  | |||
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"More rubbish And another total dismissal. Just out of interest how many of the approximately 2.5 million vehicle units registered in 2017 were bought by and for the use of the top 1% of the countries earners who have doubled their wealth in the last 8 years? Maybe you could hazard a guess of the number of any other consumer good including food and then explain to us all how its not the mass consumer market (that's those at the bottom not the top 1%) that drives an economy and produces wealth by stimulating production but the mega wealthy that hide the wealth they remove from economies in tax havens where the locals live in total poverty. What are you saying here? The mega wealthy are hoarding, treacherous, parasitic bastards!
Preach the truth amen to that!
A few However are like Bruce Wayne and tony stark . "Thanks Bob., i just had a mental image of phil green in a batmsn costume  lol | |||
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"More rubbish And another total dismissal. Just out of interest how many of the approximately 2.5 million vehicle units registered in 2017 were bought by and for the use of the top 1% of the countries earners who have doubled their wealth in the last 8 years? Maybe you could hazard a guess of the number of any other consumer good including food and then explain to us all how its not the mass consumer market (that's those at the bottom not the top 1%) that drives an economy and produces wealth by stimulating production but the mega wealthy that hide the wealth they remove from economies in tax havens where the locals live in total poverty. What are you saying here? The mega wealthy are hoarding, treacherous, parasitic bastards! ". Hoarding where, Under their beds?. Wait no you mean there hoarding their money in banks and hedge funds that make liquidity easily available for people like you to borrow start a business with some great idea you've had and make money!. Jesus lefties just do not get capitalism. | |||
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"The trouble with the left is they have no idea about money and are to wrapped in feelings to say I'm sorry but we just can't afford it. They want to spend trillions bailing out car firms, banks, finance and big business, run massive deficits, spend fortunes on stuff we can't afford, spend money privatising everything (I wasn't personally in favour of some privatisation but what's done is done) without thinking about balance sheets, we'll just borrow or tax the rich, meh not being funny but the rich just leave and eventually borrowing just costs you a fortune in interest. Real hard decisions come from actually deciding on what not to spend on and let's be honest, nobody thanks you for it!. Funny though, isn't it that Labour's manifesto was the only costed one at the last GE, Corbyn has managed to wipe off the Labour Party debt and austerity has been an abject failure in reducing the national debt. All it has done is placed more money in the hands of the ultra-wealthy. . That's because they base it on projections, projections that never actually happen, they always and I mean ALWAYS claim tuppence on this and that will pay for huge massive extras on spending. I guess I'm just old enough to be sceptical on labour spending plans but that doesn't mean I'm against spending on investments in general but in this country were really shit at running stuff properly, I should imagine it would go something like, labour buys the railways back, labour invests in railways, unions demand large pay increases, labour gives large pay increases, unions demand better conditions and holidays and pensions, labour gives it them, unions then demand shorter working week, labour gives it them, unions demand massive pay rise, labour gives them a big one, unions blame private companies for undercutting them, costs of travel sky rocket, standards fall, investments fall, last thing to fall is railway wages. Neighbour looks at person next door who's been a railway guard for 30 years and just retired with great big pension and loads of holidays and thinks wtf am I doing paying loads of bloody taxes while working 45hrs a week with less holidays and no pension. I'll vote conservative!. The same conservatives who have added billions to the national debt in the name of austerity? We have had Thatcherite conservatism for 40 odd years (yes, I count new Labour in that - sane ideology, except they watered it down a bit) and it hasn't worked. But then, that seems to be a Tory specialty, getting turkeys to vote for Christmas." . Your not old enough to remember what a really big fuck up proper socialism made in the 70s. | |||
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"More rubbish And another total dismissal. Just out of interest how many of the approximately 2.5 million vehicle units registered in 2017 were bought by and for the use of the top 1% of the countries earners who have doubled their wealth in the last 8 years? Maybe you could hazard a guess of the number of any other consumer good including food and then explain to us all how its not the mass consumer market (that's those at the bottom not the top 1%) that drives an economy and produces wealth by stimulating production but the mega wealthy that hide the wealth they remove from economies in tax havens where the locals live in total poverty. What are you saying here? The mega wealthy are hoarding, treacherous, parasitic bastards! .
Hoarding where, Under their beds?.
Wait no you mean there hoarding their money in banks and hedge funds that make liquidity easily available for people like you to borrow start a business with some great idea you've had and make money!.
Jesus lefties just do not get capitalism."In other words, tax dodging. Oh i get the capitalism., 3 luxury yachts phil grern and the the cheated workers did too. The problem is tories are synonymous with greed, and some like you dress it up with excuses. Some just go too far and break the law. Ok thry make lots of money but Why can't they just pay the fucking taxes due, instead of Squirreling it away in dodgy schemes? | |||
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" Jesus lefties just do not get capitalism." Why do tories glorify greed and want others less well off to pay for them? | |||
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"The trouble with the left is they have no idea about money and are to wrapped in feelings to say I'm sorry but we just can't afford it. They want to spend trillions bailing out car firms, banks, finance and big business, run massive deficits, spend fortunes on stuff we can't afford, spend money privatising everything (I wasn't personally in favour of some privatisation but what's done is done) without thinking about balance sheets, we'll just borrow or tax the rich, meh not being funny but the rich just leave and eventually borrowing just costs you a fortune in interest. Real hard decisions come from actually deciding on what not to spend on and let's be honest, nobody thanks you for it!. Funny though, isn't it that Labour's manifesto was the only costed one at the last GE, Corbyn has managed to wipe off the Labour Party debt and austerity has been an abject failure in reducing the national debt. All it has done is placed more money in the hands of the ultra-wealthy. . That's because they base it on projections, projections that never actually happen, they always and I mean ALWAYS claim tuppence on this and that will pay for huge massive extras on spending. I guess I'm just old enough to be sceptical on labour spending plans but that doesn't mean I'm against spending on investments in general but in this country were really shit at running stuff properly, I should imagine it would go something like, labour buys the railways back, labour invests in railways, unions demand large pay increases, labour gives large pay increases, unions demand better conditions and holidays and pensions, labour gives it them, unions then demand shorter working week, labour gives it them, unions demand massive pay rise, labour gives them a big one, unions blame private companies for undercutting them, costs of travel sky rocket, standards fall, investments fall, last thing to fall is railway wages. Neighbour looks at person next door who's been a railway guard for 30 years and just retired with great big pension and loads of holidays and thinks wtf am I doing paying loads of bloody taxes while working 45hrs a week with less holidays and no pension. I'll vote conservative!. The same conservatives who have added billions to the national debt in the name of austerity? We have had Thatcherite conservatism for 40 odd years (yes, I count new Labour in that - sane ideology, except they watered it down a bit) and it hasn't worked. But then, that seems to be a Tory specialty, getting turkeys to vote for Christmas.. Your not old enough to remember what a really big fuck up proper socialism made in the 70s. " I remember scargill and the unions., too far left and too powerful. | |||
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"The left have always been completely unrealistic about realities and the reality is most people want a fair railway ticket price with a fair deal for railway workers. What we call fair and they call fair is where we part company. I have friends who work for the council who still complain about holidays despite getting 29 days a year which is 9 more than the rest of us and the rest of us take some of it to make up the Xmas week holiday and we don't complain to much because we know somebody self employed who doesn't get any, so we're happyish with our 20 without slagging off every government as if they've thrown them in the gulag." I guess that is why it is Labour (yea the left you slag off so much) that has paid down debt the most. " Your not old enough to remember what a really big fuck up proper socialism made in the 70s. " Go on remind me of some of these 'fuck ups'. "I remember scargill and the unions., too far left and too powerful. " Do you? Shame your memory does not cover the closing of the mines, just as Scargill said would happen. Shame you can't remember the spectacle of millions of £ worth of brand new mining equipment being taken underground in Stoke before the mine-shafts were capped. Or the national outcry as Thatcher refused to spend an extra £22 million installing cap vents that would allow the reopening of mines at a future date if required, but her demand that they be sealed in such a way to put them forever beyond reopening. | |||
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"Fuck me.... £1.8 trillion in debt and the deficit still running at 2% of GDP (or £40 billion a year - give or take a few £billion) How is that going to work then? Yeah it’s a fucking joke. Not a single Tory has any clue what it’s like to be a normal person in this day and age. As more people voted for the Conservative party than any other party, you can safely assume that anyone supporting the Conservatives knows exactly what it is like to be an ordinary person. If this was not the case , they would be unlikely to be returned to power so regularly. As we learned over the past few years, the general public can easily be fooled into voting against their own best interests. " Yep, 16 Million of them were fooled into voting remain, and look at how many were fooled into voting labour at the last GE. | |||
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" Jesus lefties just do not get capitalism. Why do tories glorify greed and want others less well off to pay for them? " It's the default position to shit on the working class from a great height .They are what remains of the aristocracy that once ruled us before . You are nothing more than a filthy pleb to the average Tory .Never forget who or what they are. They absolutely believe they were born rule you and become filthy rich off your backs .Its always been thus . | |||
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"Fuck me.... £1.8 trillion in debt and the deficit still running at 2% of GDP (or £40 billion a year - give or take a few £billion) How is that going to work then? Yeah it’s a fucking joke. Not a single Tory has any clue what it’s like to be a normal person in this day and age. As more people voted for the Conservative party than any other party, you can safely assume that anyone supporting the Conservatives knows exactly what it is like to be an ordinary person. If this was not the case , they would be unlikely to be returned to power so regularly. Logic isnt really your strong suit is it? But he does have a point. No he doesn't. Also; we don't have proportional representation, so more people didn't vote conservative than for any other party. Unless I am mistaken the Conservative party won the last election and were the party that polled more votes than any other party. A party that represents the people. What matters is not what you post on here, the only result that counts is the one on election day. You are mistaken. They won the election, but did not win more votes than any other party. That is not how the first past the post system works, it is how proportional representation works." UK Vote share 2017 Conservative 42.4% Labour 40% LibDem 7% The Conservatives did win more votes than anyone else. They didn't win an overall majority. Many people, myself included, simply don't buy into the socialist utopian idea that the state is better at spending the money the people make than the people are themselves. They also don't buy into the argument that the Tories are a bunch of evil bastards hell bent on destroying the NHS and turning the population into serfs for the benefit of some imagined elite. And finally telling those that don't get wet between their legs at the thought of your socialist utopia is because they're to stupid to understand what's really happening, even if it were true, is not going to persuade them to change their minds. And, just for the record, I didn't vote Conservative in 2015 or 2017. | |||
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"The trouble with the left is they have no idea about money and are to wrapped in feelings to say I'm sorry but we just can't afford it. They want to spend trillions bailing out car firms, banks, finance and big business, run massive deficits, spend fortunes on stuff we can't afford, spend money privatising everything (I wasn't personally in favour of some privatisation but what's done is done) without thinking about balance sheets, we'll just borrow or tax the rich, meh not being funny but the rich just leave and eventually borrowing just costs you a fortune in interest. Real hard decisions come from actually deciding on what not to spend on and let's be honest, nobody thanks you for it!. Funny though, isn't it that Labour's manifesto was the only costed one at the last GE, Corbyn has managed to wipe off the Labour Party debt and austerity has been an abject failure in reducing the national debt. All it has done is placed more money in the hands of the ultra-wealthy. . That's because they base it on projections, projections that never actually happen, they always and I mean ALWAYS claim tuppence on this and that will pay for huge massive extras on spending. I guess I'm just old enough to be sceptical on labour spending plans but that doesn't mean I'm against spending on investments in general but in this country were really shit at running stuff properly, I should imagine it would go something like, labour buys the railways back, labour invests in railways, unions demand large pay increases, labour gives large pay increases, unions demand better conditions and holidays and pensions, labour gives it them, unions then demand shorter working week, labour gives it them, unions demand massive pay rise, labour gives them a big one, unions blame private companies for undercutting them, costs of travel sky rocket, standards fall, investments fall, last thing to fall is railway wages. Neighbour looks at person next door who's been a railway guard for 30 years and just retired with great big pension and loads of holidays and thinks wtf am I doing paying loads of bloody taxes while working 45hrs a week with less holidays and no pension. I'll vote conservative!. The same conservatives who have added billions to the national debt in the name of austerity? We have had Thatcherite conservatism for 40 odd years (yes, I count new Labour in that - sane ideology, except they watered it down a bit) and it hasn't worked. But then, that seems to be a Tory specialty, getting turkeys to vote for Christmas." In my experience it seemed to work pretty well from about 1992 to 2007 (yes I count new Labour in that). However not enough was put aside to whether the storm well when it came. It's unfortunate for Labour that they were in power when the storm did come but they were and part of being in power is taking responsibility. Simply dropping 'new' doesn't change that. | |||
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"More rubbish And another total dismissal. Just out of interest how many of the approximately 2.5 million vehicle units registered in 2017 were bought by and for the use of the top 1% of the countries earners who have doubled their wealth in the last 8 years? Maybe you could hazard a guess of the number of any other consumer good including food and then explain to us all how its not the mass consumer market (that's those at the bottom not the top 1%) that drives an economy and produces wealth by stimulating production but the mega wealthy that hide the wealth they remove from economies in tax havens where the locals live in total poverty. What are you saying here? The mega wealthy are hoarding, treacherous, parasitic bastards! .
Hoarding where, Under their beds?.
Wait no you mean there hoarding their money in banks and hedge funds that make liquidity easily available for people like you to borrow start a business with some great idea you've had and make money!.
Jesus lefties just do not get capitalism."Plus money invested at typical market returns compounded for 8 years is close to 100% So one can double their wealth easily and ethically without resorting to being a parasite, breaking any law, corruption or favouritism. Or should everyone with a pension or also be lynched? | |||
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"The unions are often now working with employers to keep wages lower, or people on zero hour contracts. An example is how usdaw the shop workers union work Tesco to actually penalise sick staff. In my job the government made it elegal for us to take strike action. We can only refuse to work over safety and health issues, then we are threatened with court action. I have seen my pay go backwards over the last ten years, to the point in real terms I earn less than when I joined. I work in decaying unsafe conditions, that are a real result of cuts. " Why don't you look for a better job? | |||
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"Plus money invested at typical market returns compounded for 8 years is close to 100% So one can double their wealth easily and ethically without resorting to being a parasite, breaking any law, corruption or favouritism. Or should everyone with a pension or also be lynched?" Funny how the majority see their income, savings and pensions decrease in value while the top 1% see their wealth double and you fail to see anything wrong with that. | |||
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"Plus money invested at typical market returns compounded for 8 years is close to 100% So one can double their wealth easily and ethically without resorting to being a parasite, breaking any law, corruption or favouritism. Or should everyone with a pension or also be lynched? Funny how the majority see their income, savings and pensions decrease in value while the top 1% see their wealth double and you fail to see anything wrong with that." Now you are becoming illogical. The ultrawealthy are invested in the same funds as your pension...although they might have better diversification and market management/experience behind them...they are still exposed to the same returns (while taking more risk). | |||
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"Plus money invested at typical market returns compounded for 8 years is close to 100% So one can double their wealth easily and ethically without resorting to being a parasite, breaking any law, corruption or favouritism. Or should everyone with a pension or also be lynched? Funny how the majority see their income, savings and pensions decrease in value while the top 1% see their wealth double and you fail to see anything wrong with that." I'm not here to be a cheerleader for the 1%, I'm sure there are plenty up to no good. But I am cheerleading against holding up the 1% as a bad example and then using the worst reasoning possible to usher in the worst of populist thinking. You are against populism (trump, brexit etc.) and yet here you are stoking the fire. | |||
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"I'm not here to be a cheerleader for the 1%, I'm sure there are plenty up to no good. But I am cheerleading against holding up the 1% as a bad example and then using the worst reasoning possible to usher in the worst of populist thinking. You are against populism (trump, brexit etc.) and yet here you are stoking the fire. " That's funny, I think if you check I always say I am in favour of a highly regulated mixed economy where utilities and industries that are vital to the national interest are held in trust by the state and run for the benefit of the country. Further I always say I am in favour of a progressive income based tax system where the greater earnings are (be they wages, profits or investment income) the higher the marginal rate of tax should be. I also say that those who use accounting 'tools' to transfer untaxed earnings out of the country should have those untaxed financial transfers taxed at a rate that makes it unprofitable to continue the practice. But somehow you (and others who see me as the 'loony left') seem to suffer from selective word blindness or lack of understanding. Because regardless of how many times I repeat myself you fail to registrar that it is UNREGULATED laissez faire capitalism I am opposed to. | |||
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"The trouble with the left is they have no idea about money and are to wrapped in feelings to say I'm sorry but we just can't afford it. They want to spend trillions bailing out car firms, banks, finance and big business, run massive deficits, spend fortunes on stuff we can't afford, spend money privatising everything (I wasn't personally in favour of some privatisation but what's done is done) without thinking about balance sheets, we'll just borrow or tax the rich, meh not being funny but the rich just leave and eventually borrowing just costs you a fortune in interest. Real hard decisions come from actually deciding on what not to spend on and let's be honest, nobody thanks you for it!. Funny though, isn't it that Labour's manifesto was the only costed one at the last GE, Corbyn has managed to wipe off the Labour Party debt and austerity has been an abject failure in reducing the national debt. All it has done is placed more money in the hands of the ultra-wealthy. . That's because they base it on projections, projections that never actually happen, they always and I mean ALWAYS claim tuppence on this and that will pay for huge massive extras on spending. I guess I'm just old enough to be sceptical on labour spending plans but that doesn't mean I'm against spending on investments in general but in this country were really shit at running stuff properly, I should imagine it would go something like, labour buys the railways back, labour invests in railways, unions demand large pay increases, labour gives large pay increases, unions demand better conditions and holidays and pensions, labour gives it them, unions then demand shorter working week, labour gives it them, unions demand massive pay rise, labour gives them a big one, unions blame private companies for undercutting them, costs of travel sky rocket, standards fall, investments fall, last thing to fall is railway wages. Neighbour looks at person next door who's been a railway guard for 30 years and just retired with great big pension and loads of holidays and thinks wtf am I doing paying loads of bloody taxes while working 45hrs a week with less holidays and no pension. I'll vote conservative!. The same conservatives who have added billions to the national debt in the name of austerity? We have had Thatcherite conservatism for 40 odd years (yes, I count new Labour in that - sane ideology, except they watered it down a bit) and it hasn't worked. But then, that seems to be a Tory specialty, getting turkeys to vote for Christmas.. Your not old enough to remember what a really big fuck up proper socialism made in the 70s. " I am and it wasnt proper socialism was it? Harold Wilson & Jim Callaghan were hardly Lenin and Stalin were they? You're trotting out unsubstantiated tosh | |||
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"Fuck me.... £1.8 trillion in debt and the deficit still running at 2% of GDP (or £40 billion a year - give or take a few £billion) How is that going to work then? Yeah it’s a fucking joke. Not a single Tory has any clue what it’s like to be a normal person in this day and age. As more people voted for the Conservative party than any other party, you can safely assume that anyone supporting the Conservatives knows exactly what it is like to be an ordinary person. If this was not the case , they would be unlikely to be returned to power so regularly. Logic isnt really your strong suit is it? But he does have a point." I can't see the point he is struggling to make tbh | |||
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"Fuck me.... £1.8 trillion in debt and the deficit still running at 2% of GDP (or £40 billion a year - give or take a few £billion) How is that going to work then? Yeah it’s a fucking joke. Not a single Tory has any clue what it’s like to be a normal person in this day and age. As more people voted for the Conservative party than any other party, you can safely assume that anyone supporting the Conservatives knows exactly what it is like to be an ordinary person. If this was not the case , they would be unlikely to be returned to power so regularly. As we learned over the past few years, the general public can easily be fooled into voting against their own best interests. Yep, 16 Million of them were fooled into voting remain, and look at how many were fooled into voting labour at the last GE. "But surely given how crap Corbyn is and how "Leave" were promising "Utopia" the Tory party still lost its overall majority - albeit a small one. So going from a majority government to a minority government can't be seen as a "win win"? | |||
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"Fuck me.... £1.8 trillion in debt and the deficit still running at 2% of GDP (or £40 billion a year - give or take a few £billion) How is that going to work then? Yeah it’s a fucking joke. Not a single Tory has any clue what it’s like to be a normal person in this day and age. As more people voted for the Conservative party than any other party, you can safely assume that anyone supporting the Conservatives knows exactly what it is like to be an ordinary person. If this was not the case , they would be unlikely to be returned to power so regularly. As we learned over the past few years, the general public can easily be fooled into voting against their own best interests. Yep, 16 Million of them were fooled into voting remain, and look at how many were fooled into voting labour at the last GE.
But surely given how crap Corbyn is and how "Leave" were promising "Utopia" the Tory party still lost its overall majority - albeit a small one. So going from a majority government to a minority government can't be seen as a "win win"?"For me it was a win win. The Tories no longer had a majority to force through a hard BREXIT and we didn't get Corbyn as PM. I couldn't have hoped for a better result short of a LibDem majority government. | |||
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"Why the obsession with utilities? Once the service works and is affordable...?" Asks an Irish man from Dublin when Bord Na Mona is state controlled as is Iarnród Éireann. Could it be that your being disingenuous in your post? Or is it just that as far as you are concerned you feel that we this side of the water do not deserve what you take for granted? | |||
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"Why the obsession with utilities? Once the service works and is affordable...? Asks an Irish man from Dublin when Bord Na Mona is state controlled as is Iarnród Éireann. Could it be that your being disingenuous in your post? Or is it just that as far as you are concerned you feel that we this side of the water do not deserve what you take for granted? " Ha ha no, I was being serious. It seems like you don't know what you want but you don't mind so long as the rich get their comeuppance...regulation is fine by me so long as it is simple and transparent. My point is that there is plenty of great stuff happening in between in the economic middleground between abject poverty and obscene wealth. You focus on the peak of the heirarcy...you hate and envy them and I'm saying that the collective energy of people who share your oversimple views is much better spent! Bord na Mona is just for peat/turf...we have various electricity and gas companies and competition has been good for the market and the consumer, same with phone services compared to the massive landline bills of the past. Our trains are way too expensive. 80 euro return for a 3 hr journey! | |||
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"Ha ha no, I was being serious. It seems like you don't know what you want but you don't mind so long as the rich get their comeuppance...regulation is fine by me so long as it is simple and transparent. My point is that there is plenty of great stuff happening in between in the economic middleground between abject poverty and obscene wealth. You focus on the peak of the heirarcy...you hate and envy them and I'm saying that the collective energy of people who share your oversimple views is much better spent! Bord na Mona is just for peat/turf...we have various electricity and gas companies and competition has been good for the market and the consumer, same with phone services compared to the massive landline bills of the past. Our trains are way too expensive. 80 euro return for a 3 hr journey!" Again you totally fail to understand what I continually say. I do not have 'it in' for the rich, I have it in for the rich who steal from the state they demand protect them and their wealth! As for the price of your trains, be thankful you do not have to pay the prices charged this side of the water. | |||
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"The left have always been completely unrealistic about realities and the reality is most people want a fair railway ticket price with a fair deal for railway workers. What we call fair and they call fair is where we part company. I have friends who work for the council who still complain about holidays despite getting 29 days a year which is 9 more than the rest of us and the rest of us take some of it to make up the Xmas week holiday and we don't complain to much because we know somebody self employed who doesn't get any, so we're happyish with our 20 without slagging off every government as if they've thrown them in the gulag. I guess that is why it is Labour (yea the left you slag off so much) that has paid down debt the most. Your not old enough to remember what a really big fuck up proper socialism made in the 70s. Go on remind me of some of these 'fuck ups'. I remember scargill and the unions., too far left and too powerful. Do you? Shame your memory does not cover the closing of the mines, just as Scargill said would happen. Shame you can't remember the spectacle of millions of £ worth of brand new mining equipment being taken underground in Stoke before the mine-shafts were capped. Or the national outcry as Thatcher refused to spend an extra £22 million installing cap vents that would allow the reopening of mines at a future date if required, but her demand that they be sealed in such a way to put them forever beyond reopening. " scargill didn't call for s national strike ballot., if he did, perhaps the strike would have been successful, along with better negotiations. Scargill demanded too much. | |||
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"I'll add that the state are generally incompetent at running anything...between having no skin in the game (absorb losses with taxes - no risk of true failure) and the work avoidant entitled attitude of typical civil servants (its a culture people either live or hate to work), I think private enterprise while sometimes lacking scruples is a better bet. " . Your wasting your breath, they've been brain washed by socialist teachers | |||
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"Your viewpoint acts as if the "invisible hand" of government is the only driving force in people's life's. Personal decision making is the number one determinant of life outcomes. Do you disagree? " Id disagree, are you saying that you'd be in the exact same position in life if you were born in Ireland, North Korea, China or Ethiopa? If you were in America and wanted a 3rd level education would you be in the same financial position if you had €60k of student loan debt? When a government controls the laws, international and national trade rules, the wages and can control the direction wealth flows its a bigger impact than anything else you can decide to do. | |||
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"I'll add that the state are generally incompetent at running anything...between having no skin in the game (absorb losses with taxes - no risk of true failure) and the work avoidant entitled attitude of typical civil servants (its a culture people either live or hate to work), I think private enterprise while sometimes lacking scruples is a better bet. " Private enterprise like the private companies that over leveraged themselves to gain short term profits at the expense of sending the worlds economy into recession? | |||
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"I'll add that the state are generally incompetent at running anything...between having no skin in the game (absorb losses with taxes - no risk of true failure) and the work avoidant entitled attitude of typical civil servants (its a culture people either live or hate to work), I think private enterprise while sometimes lacking scruples is a better bet. . Your wasting your breath, they've been brain washed by socialist teachers" More teachers vote Tory than vote Labour you know | |||
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"I'll add that the state are generally incompetent at running anything...between having no skin in the game (absorb losses with taxes - no risk of true failure) and the work avoidant entitled attitude of typical civil servants (its a culture people either live or hate to work), I think private enterprise while sometimes lacking scruples is a better bet. . Your wasting your breath, they've been brain washed by socialist teachers More teachers vote Tory than vote Labour you know" Oh come on now, everybody knows that being left wing is a conspiracy perpetuated by the educated.... | |||
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"I'll add that the state are generally incompetent at running anything...between having no skin in the game (absorb losses with taxes - no risk of true failure) and the work avoidant entitled attitude of typical civil servants (its a culture people either live or hate to work), I think private enterprise while sometimes lacking scruples is a better bet. Private enterprise like the private companies that over leveraged themselves to gain short term profits at the expense of sending the worlds economy into recession?" That's a risk sure...but it's investment banks not utilities companies that do the damage | |||
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"Your viewpoint acts as if the "invisible hand" of government is the only driving force in people's life's. Personal decision making is the number one determinant of life outcomes. Do you disagree? Id disagree, are you saying that you'd be in the exact same position in life if you were born in Ireland, North Korea, China or Ethiopa? If you were in America and wanted a 3rd level education would you be in the same financial position if you had €60k of student loan debt? When a government controls the laws, international and national trade rules, the wages and can control the direction wealth flows its a bigger impact than anything else you can decide to do." For completeness I should have added "relative to your peers" See my original post here | |||
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"For completeness I should have added "relative to your peers" See my original post here " And again I point out a child's parents level of education and a child's parents socio-economic status and aspirations (or lack there of) are the dominant factors when determining the child's adult outcome unless there is outside intervention. So unless you are also conceding this I still refute your postulation. | |||
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"I'll add that the state are generally incompetent at running anything...between having no skin in the game (absorb losses with taxes - no risk of true failure) and the work avoidant entitled attitude of typical civil servants (its a culture people either live or hate to work), I think private enterprise while sometimes lacking scruples is a better bet. . Your wasting your breath, they've been brain washed by socialist teachers" The person who is brainwashed is yourself, brainwashed by narrow minded right wing thinking that would take this country back to victorian times. The loony right are out in force on this site and in the tory party and have a miniscule knowledge of politics and economics. | |||
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"Your viewpoint acts as if the "invisible hand" of government is the only driving force in people's life's. Personal decision making is the number one determinant of life outcomes. Do you disagree? Id disagree, are you saying that you'd be in the exact same position in life if you were born in Ireland, North Korea, China or Ethiopa? If you were in America and wanted a 3rd level education would you be in the same financial position if you had €60k of student loan debt? When a government controls the laws, international and national trade rules, the wages and can control the direction wealth flows its a bigger impact than anything else you can decide to do. For completeness I should have added "relative to your peers" See my original post here " Well your peers will have the same government you do. And more accurately your peers will also be of the same socio-economic background as you (more or less) and most will have a similar education level. So if you take the government out of it, socio-economic factors and education out of it then I guess your own decisions have one of the strongest drivers of your success. | |||
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"Well your peers will have the same government you do. And more accurately your peers will also be of the same socio-economic background as you (more or less) and most will have a similar education level. So if you take the government out of it, socio-economic factors and education out of it then I guess your own decisions have one of the strongest drivers of your success. " So to be clear, if you ignore all the things that you have no control over, your in total control of everything. You really don't say!
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"Well your peers will have the same government you do. And more accurately your peers will also be of the same socio-economic background as you (more or less) and most will have a similar education level. So if you take the government out of it, socio-economic factors and education out of it then I guess your own decisions have one of the strongest drivers of your success. So to be clear, if you ignore all the things that you have no control over, your in total control of everything. You really don't say!
"That's the message all along lads. You can be in the gutter but reaching for the stars
Or in the gutter and planning to stay there.
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"Well your peers will have the same government you do. And more accurately your peers will also be of the same socio-economic background as you (more or less) and most will have a similar education level. So if you take the government out of it, socio-economic factors and education out of it then I guess your own decisions have one of the strongest drivers of your success. So to be clear, if you ignore all the things that you have no control over, your in total control of everything. You really don't say!
That's the message all along lads.
You can be in the gutter but reaching for the stars
Or in the gutter and planning to stay there.
"The illusion of control is often sold to the masses and they eagerly believe those that tell them they have control .Its false .Only when you give up this illusion can you fulfil your destiny. | |||
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"That's the message all along lads. You can be in the gutter but reaching for the stars
Or in the gutter and planning to stay there.
"Fair enough, nothing you ignore can effect you. Now go pop down to the North Pier and jump in, just ignore the tide and the ferries and you will be fine. Or if you feel the water will be too cold go for a walk in the fast lane of the M1 all you have to do is ignore the cars and you will be fine. | |||
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"That's the message all along lads. You can be in the gutter but reaching for the stars
Or in the gutter and planning to stay there.
Fair enough, nothing you ignore can effect you. Now go pop down to the North Pier and jump in, just ignore the tide and the ferries and you will be fine. Or if you feel the water will be too cold go for a walk in the fast lane of the M1 all you have to do is ignore the cars and you will be fine."This is getting ridiculous. I'm talking about simple stuff that anyone can do to improve their station like spend less than you earn and work hard at your job and you are here trying to depict mortal danger for anyone born without a silver spoon. | |||
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"Well your peers will have the same government you do. And more accurately your peers will also be of the same socio-economic background as you (more or less) and most will have a similar education level. So if you take the government out of it, socio-economic factors and education out of it then I guess your own decisions have one of the strongest drivers of your success. So to be clear, if you ignore all the things that you have no control over, your in total control of everything. You really don't say!
That's the message all along lads.
You can be in the gutter but reaching for the stars
Or in the gutter and planning to stay there.
The illusion of control is often sold to the masses and they eagerly believe those that tell them they have control .Its false .Only when you give up this illusion can you fulfil your destiny. "The illusion of control is democracy...or thinking that a different party in government will solve all your problems....or that if you pray to God that everything will be ok. Fulfilling your destiny is deciding to be a debt slave consumer pawn ...or not. | |||
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"That's the message all along lads. You can be in the gutter but reaching for the stars
Or in the gutter and planning to stay there.
Fair enough, nothing you ignore can effect you. Now go pop down to the North Pier and jump in, just ignore the tide and the ferries and you will be fine. Or if you feel the water will be too cold go for a walk in the fast lane of the M1 all you have to do is ignore the cars and you will be fine.
This is getting ridiculous.
I'm talking about simple stuff that anyone can do to improve their station like spend less than you earn and work hard at your job and you are here trying to depict mortal danger for anyone born without a silver spoon. "Well its easy for us to say as Ireland keeps a floor on where you can go as long as youre in the system. Theres a good social welfare, social housing and a strong culture of supporting charities and free healthcare and education. I dont think you understand the absolutr massive gulf between us and even the USA in terms of how badly things can go. We've a pretty level (by international standards) education system. You can get a good standard of education wherever you go. There are schools there where reading prificiency is less than 10% and even some with below 5%. Can you imagine that happening in Ireland? 95% of students in a school unable to read properly? 1 in 4 families cant afford basic school supplies because they have to keep a roof over their head and food on the table first. 1 in 4 Americans have to refuse needed healthcare because they cant afford it. And that includes life saving care like cancer treatment and surgeries on top of quality of life care that allow them to even go and do jobs that they want to work hard at. You know what the federally mandated minimum wage is for wait staff? $2.13 per hour. You know that Walmart staff in recent years worked full time hours in a hard job and still qualified for and needed foodstamps just to get by? Youre confusing your life for everyone elses. You dont have to deal with chronic illness. You had a guarantee of a decent education. You'll never have to choose between treating your cancer or keeping your home. You have a government that enforces a living wage so if you work 40 hours a week you will easily survive. | |||
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"That's the message all along lads. You can be in the gutter but reaching for the stars
Or in the gutter and planning to stay there.
Fair enough, nothing you ignore can effect you. Now go pop down to the North Pier and jump in, just ignore the tide and the ferries and you will be fine. Or if you feel the water will be too cold go for a walk in the fast lane of the M1 all you have to do is ignore the cars and you will be fine.
This is getting ridiculous.
I'm talking about simple stuff that anyone can do to improve their station like spend less than you earn and work hard at your job and you are here trying to depict mortal danger for anyone born without a silver spoon.
Well its easy for us to say as Ireland keeps a floor on where you can go as long as youre in the system.
Theres a good social welfare, social housing and a strong culture of supporting charities and free healthcare and education.
I dont think you understand the absolutr massive gulf between us and even the USA in terms of how badly things can go.
We've a pretty level (by international standards) education system. You can get a good standard of education wherever you go. There are schools there where reading prificiency is less than 10% and even some with below 5%. Can you imagine that happening in Ireland? 95% of students in a school unable to read properly? 1 in 4 families cant afford basic school supplies because they have to keep a roof over their head and food on the table first.
1 in 4 Americans have to refuse needed healthcare because they cant afford it. And that includes life saving care like cancer treatment and surgeries on top of quality of life care that allow them to even go and do jobs that they want to work hard at.
You know what the federally mandated minimum wage is for wait staff? $2.13 per hour. You know that Walmart staff in recent years worked full time hours in a hard job and still qualified for and needed foodstamps just to get by?
Youre confusing your life for everyone elses. You dont have to deal with chronic illness. You had a guarantee of a decent education. You'll never have to choose between treating your cancer or keeping your home. You have a government that enforces a living wage so if you work 40 hours a week you will easily survive."Remember that the original point was | |||
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"That's the message all along lads. You can be in the gutter but reaching for the stars
Or in the gutter and planning to stay there.
Fair enough, nothing you ignore can effect you. Now go pop down to the North Pier and jump in, just ignore the tide and the ferries and you will be fine. Or if you feel the water will be too cold go for a walk in the fast lane of the M1 all you have to do is ignore the cars and you will be fine.
This is getting ridiculous.
I'm talking about simple stuff that anyone can do to improve their station like spend less than you earn and work hard at your job and you are here trying to depict mortal danger for anyone born without a silver spoon.
Well its easy for us to say as Ireland keeps a floor on where you can go as long as youre in the system.
Theres a good social welfare, social housing and a strong culture of supporting charities and free healthcare and education.
I dont think you understand the absolutr massive gulf between us and even the USA in terms of how badly things can go.
We've a pretty level (by international standards) education system. You can get a good standard of education wherever you go. There are schools there where reading prificiency is less than 10% and even some with below 5%. Can you imagine that happening in Ireland? 95% of students in a school unable to read properly? 1 in 4 families cant afford basic school supplies because they have to keep a roof over their head and food on the table first.
1 in 4 Americans have to refuse needed healthcare because they cant afford it. And that includes life saving care like cancer treatment and surgeries on top of quality of life care that allow them to even go and do jobs that they want to work hard at.
You know what the federally mandated minimum wage is for wait staff? $2.13 per hour. You know that Walmart staff in recent years worked full time hours in a hard job and still qualified for and needed foodstamps just to get by?
Youre confusing your life for everyone elses. You dont have to deal with chronic illness. You had a guarantee of a decent education. You'll never have to choose between treating your cancer or keeping your home. You have a government that enforces a living wage so if you work 40 hours a week you will easily survive.
Remember that the original point was "Hope is a useful tool to control the masses.I bet you believe in the American dream that anyone can become president . | |||
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"That's the message all along lads. You can be in the gutter but reaching for the stars
Or in the gutter and planning to stay there.
Fair enough, nothing you ignore can effect you. Now go pop down to the North Pier and jump in, just ignore the tide and the ferries and you will be fine. Or if you feel the water will be too cold go for a walk in the fast lane of the M1 all you have to do is ignore the cars and you will be fine.
This is getting ridiculous.
I'm talking about simple stuff that anyone can do to improve their station like spend less than you earn and work hard at your job and you are here trying to depict mortal danger for anyone born without a silver spoon.
Well its easy for us to say as Ireland keeps a floor on where you can go as long as youre in the system.
Theres a good social welfare, social housing and a strong culture of supporting charities and free healthcare and education.
I dont think you understand the absolutr massive gulf between us and even the USA in terms of how badly things can go.
We've a pretty level (by international standards) education system. You can get a good standard of education wherever you go. There are schools there where reading prificiency is less than 10% and even some with below 5%. Can you imagine that happening in Ireland? 95% of students in a school unable to read properly? 1 in 4 families cant afford basic school supplies because they have to keep a roof over their head and food on the table first.
1 in 4 Americans have to refuse needed healthcare because they cant afford it. And that includes life saving care like cancer treatment and surgeries on top of quality of life care that allow them to even go and do jobs that they want to work hard at.
You know what the federally mandated minimum wage is for wait staff? $2.13 per hour. You know that Walmart staff in recent years worked full time hours in a hard job and still qualified for and needed foodstamps just to get by?
Youre confusing your life for everyone elses. You dont have to deal with chronic illness. You had a guarantee of a decent education. You'll never have to choose between treating your cancer or keeping your home. You have a government that enforces a living wage so if you work 40 hours a week you will easily survive.
Remember that the original point was
Hope is a useful tool to control the masses.I bet you believe in the American dream that anyone can become president . "You can as long as you have money - trump has proved it! | |||
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"I'll add that the state are generally incompetent at running anything...between having no skin in the game (absorb losses with taxes - no risk of true failure) and the work avoidant entitled attitude of typical civil servants (its a culture people either live or hate to work), I think private enterprise while sometimes lacking scruples is a better bet. . Your wasting your breath, they've been brain washed by socialist teachers More teachers vote Tory than vote Labour you know" . There not the ones you have to worry about though, they tend to teach good reliable rational subjects. It's the crazy lefties with they're irrational emotional rubbish filling kids heads with in the most, garbage. | |||
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"That's the message all along lads. You can be in the gutter but reaching for the stars
Or in the gutter and planning to stay there.
Fair enough, nothing you ignore can effect you. Now go pop down to the North Pier and jump in, just ignore the tide and the ferries and you will be fine. Or if you feel the water will be too cold go for a walk in the fast lane of the M1 all you have to do is ignore the cars and you will be fine.
This is getting ridiculous.
I'm talking about simple stuff that anyone can do to improve their station like spend less than you earn and work hard at your job and you are here trying to depict mortal danger for anyone born without a silver spoon.
Well its easy for us to say as Ireland keeps a floor on where you can go as long as youre in the system.
Theres a good social welfare, social housing and a strong culture of supporting charities and free healthcare and education.
I dont think you understand the absolutr massive gulf between us and even the USA in terms of how badly things can go.
We've a pretty level (by international standards) education system. You can get a good standard of education wherever you go. There are schools there where reading prificiency is less than 10% and even some with below 5%. Can you imagine that happening in Ireland? 95% of students in a school unable to read properly? 1 in 4 families cant afford basic school supplies because they have to keep a roof over their head and food on the table first.
1 in 4 Americans have to refuse needed healthcare because they cant afford it. And that includes life saving care like cancer treatment and surgeries on top of quality of life care that allow them to even go and do jobs that they want to work hard at.
You know what the federally mandated minimum wage is for wait staff? $2.13 per hour. You know that Walmart staff in recent years worked full time hours in a hard job and still qualified for and needed foodstamps just to get by?
Youre confusing your life for everyone elses. You dont have to deal with chronic illness. You had a guarantee of a decent education. You'll never have to choose between treating your cancer or keeping your home. You have a government that enforces a living wage so if you work 40 hours a week you will easily survive.
Remember that the original point was
Hope is a useful tool to control the masses.I bet you believe in the American dream that anyone can become president .
You can as long as you have money - trump has proved it!". Or your a mixed race poor guy from Hawaii from a "broken" home raised by your grandparents. I wish people would stop with this you can't do anything unless your born rich. | |||
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"That's the message all along lads. You can be in the gutter but reaching for the stars
Or in the gutter and planning to stay there.
Fair enough, nothing you ignore can effect you. Now go pop down to the North Pier and jump in, just ignore the tide and the ferries and you will be fine. Or if you feel the water will be too cold go for a walk in the fast lane of the M1 all you have to do is ignore the cars and you will be fine.
This is getting ridiculous.
I'm talking about simple stuff that anyone can do to improve their station like spend less than you earn and work hard at your job and you are here trying to depict mortal danger for anyone born without a silver spoon.
Well its easy for us to say as Ireland keeps a floor on where you can go as long as youre in the system.
Theres a good social welfare, social housing and a strong culture of supporting charities and free healthcare and education.
I dont think you understand the absolutr massive gulf between us and even the USA in terms of how badly things can go.
We've a pretty level (by international standards) education system. You can get a good standard of education wherever you go. There are schools there where reading prificiency is less than 10% and even some with below 5%. Can you imagine that happening in Ireland? 95% of students in a school unable to read properly? 1 in 4 families cant afford basic school supplies because they have to keep a roof over their head and food on the table first.
1 in 4 Americans have to refuse needed healthcare because they cant afford it. And that includes life saving care like cancer treatment and surgeries on top of quality of life care that allow them to even go and do jobs that they want to work hard at.
You know what the federally mandated minimum wage is for wait staff? $2.13 per hour. You know that Walmart staff in recent years worked full time hours in a hard job and still qualified for and needed foodstamps just to get by?
Youre confusing your life for everyone elses. You dont have to deal with chronic illness. You had a guarantee of a decent education. You'll never have to choose between treating your cancer or keeping your home. You have a government that enforces a living wage so if you work 40 hours a week you will easily survive.
Remember that the original point was
Hope is a useful tool to control the masses.I bet you believe in the American dream that anyone can become president .
You can as long as you have money - trump has proved it!.
Or your a mixed race poor guy from Hawaii from a "broken" home raised by your grandparents.
I wish people would stop with this you can't do anything unless your born rich."You mean a mixed race poor guy who went to an elite private school? | |||
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"That's the message all along lads. You can be in the gutter but reaching for the stars
Or in the gutter and planning to stay there.
Fair enough, nothing you ignore can effect you. Now go pop down to the North Pier and jump in, just ignore the tide and the ferries and you will be fine. Or if you feel the water will be too cold go for a walk in the fast lane of the M1 all you have to do is ignore the cars and you will be fine.
This is getting ridiculous.
I'm talking about simple stuff that anyone can do to improve their station like spend less than you earn and work hard at your job and you are here trying to depict mortal danger for anyone born without a silver spoon.
Well its easy for us to say as Ireland keeps a floor on where you can go as long as youre in the system.
Theres a good social welfare, social housing and a strong culture of supporting charities and free healthcare and education.
I dont think you understand the absolutr massive gulf between us and even the USA in terms of how badly things can go.
We've a pretty level (by international standards) education system. You can get a good standard of education wherever you go. There are schools there where reading prificiency is less than 10% and even some with below 5%. Can you imagine that happening in Ireland? 95% of students in a school unable to read properly? 1 in 4 families cant afford basic school supplies because they have to keep a roof over their head and food on the table first.
1 in 4 Americans have to refuse needed healthcare because they cant afford it. And that includes life saving care like cancer treatment and surgeries on top of quality of life care that allow them to even go and do jobs that they want to work hard at.
You know what the federally mandated minimum wage is for wait staff? $2.13 per hour. You know that Walmart staff in recent years worked full time hours in a hard job and still qualified for and needed foodstamps just to get by?
Youre confusing your life for everyone elses. You dont have to deal with chronic illness. You had a guarantee of a decent education. You'll never have to choose between treating your cancer or keeping your home. You have a government that enforces a living wage so if you work 40 hours a week you will easily survive.
Remember that the original point was
Hope is a useful tool to control the masses.I bet you believe in the American dream that anyone can become president .
You can as long as you have money - trump has proved it!.
Or your a mixed race poor guy from Hawaii from a "broken" home raised by your grandparents.
I wish people would stop with this you can't do anything unless your born rich.
You mean a mixed race poor guy who went to an elite private school?". That's because he was talented. Have you got a problem with talented kids excelling in life?. | |||
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"That's because he was talented. Have you got a problem with talented kids excelling in life?. " You need to go back and read all my posts and superflash's replies on this subject, after which you will find that you have perfectly illustrated the reality I have been attempting to get superflash to acknowledge. | |||
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" I wish people would stop with this you can't do anything unless your born rich." see, this is the main problem with the nouveau aile droit .... they wish things were how they desperately want them to be ... but then reality kicks in and their brainwashing leaves them without the mental capacity to understand that they have been spoon fed idealogical garbage by idiots | |||
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"The way I see it is thus... When we have started to see some results from the current austerity, Labour will get back in. When Labour have spent all the money and put us firmly in the shit, the Tories will be back. It’s like a never ending see saw between spendthrift Socialists and tight fisted Conservatives. When will we ever learn? "Government debt as doubled since the Tories have been in power. Seems like they have broken the cycle. At least with labour, some things are done for ordinary people instead of servicing big corporations and the ultra wealthy. | |||
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" I wish people would stop with this you can't do anything unless your born rich. see, this is the main problem with the nouveau aile droit .... they wish things were how they desperately want them to be ... but then reality kicks in and their brainwashing leaves them without the mental capacity to understand that they have been spoon fed idealogical garbage by idiots" Lol, you must have been fed from a very large spoon and been back for seconds! | |||
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"That's because he was talented. Have you got a problem with talented kids excelling in life?. You need to go back and read all my posts and superflash's replies on this subject, after which you will find that you have perfectly illustrated the reality I have been attempting to get superflash to acknowledge." . I do read your posts but to be honest they seem to be tainted in hatred for anybody that's done well for themselves, it's not that I don't think capitalism doesn't have its problems, it's currently unstable due to some major government assumptions and regulation failures but let's no pretend even with that it's way more better than socialism, it's been done to death all over the globe and every time it's resulted in abject failure on both an economic and humanitarian level and multi million deaths in the process, this is proven verifiable fact, no masses tried to sneak into China, USSR, Cuba, Indo China, Vietnam, Cambodia, Central America, Ukraine, Eastern Germany, Eastern Europe, it's blight was worse than fascism or Nazism. Mixed race "foreigners" certainly never attain any power or high up government rolls, the gap between the super wealthy and the super poor was no less, they had no better human rights, no better education and no better health service, they did get some longevity in life because everybody has manual jobs working over 40hrs a week while eating a diet that the poor could afford (basic) while the socialist government of the ussr turned everyone into an alcoholic by subsiding vodka to keep them happy with there lot in life. I just don't see any benefit in adopting socialism whatsoever but I'm willing to accept tax policy change and regulation under a free market system might be something that needs looking at. | |||
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"That's because he was talented. Have you got a problem with talented kids excelling in life?. You need to go back and read all my posts and superflash's replies on this subject, after which you will find that you have perfectly illustrated the reality I have been attempting to get superflash to acknowledge.. I do read your posts but to be honest they seem to be tainted in hatred for anybody that's done well for themselves, it's not that I don't think capitalism doesn't have its problems, it's currently unstable due to some major government assumptions and regulation failures but let's no pretend even with that it's way more better than socialism, it's been done to death all over the globe and every time it's resulted in abject failure on both an economic and humanitarian level and multi million deaths in the process, this is proven verifiable fact, no masses tried to sneak into China, USSR, Cuba, Indo China, Vietnam, Cambodia, Central America, Ukraine, Eastern Germany, Eastern Europe, it's blight was worse than fascism or Nazism. Mixed race "foreigners" certainly never attain any power or high up government rolls, the gap between the super wealthy and the super poor was no less, they had no better human rights, no better education and no better health service, they did get some longevity in life because everybody has manual jobs working over 40hrs a week while eating a diet that the poor could afford (basic) while the socialist government of the ussr turned everyone into an alcoholic by subsiding vodka to keep them happy with there lot in life. I just don't see any benefit in adopting socialism whatsoever but I'm willing to accept tax policy change and regulation under a free market system might be something that needs looking at." Has the world wide web and the internet led to an evolvement of both capitalism and socialism? Maybe we need 21st century definitions of both systems? | |||
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"Ah, the old Socialism = totalitarian dictatorship argument. It's interstering, that one because nobody in the Labour Party is a revolutionary or a vanguardist, they are very much social democrats whos policies are similar to those in mixed economies found elsewhere in Europe/Scandinavia. But maybe the hysteria doesn't sound as good if you say that the left want to make our country like Denmark..... ". Which bit of Danish socialism do you wish to copy? | |||
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"That's because he was talented. Have you got a problem with talented kids excelling in life?. You need to go back and read all my posts and superflash's replies on this subject, after which you will find that you have perfectly illustrated the reality I have been attempting to get superflash to acknowledge.. I do read your posts but to be honest they seem to be tainted in hatred for anybody that's done well for themselves, it's not that I don't think capitalism doesn't have its problems, it's currently unstable due to some major government assumptions and regulation failures but let's no pretend even with that it's way more better than socialism, it's been done to death all over the globe and every time it's resulted in abject failure on both an economic and humanitarian level and multi million deaths in the process, this is proven verifiable fact, no masses tried to sneak into China, USSR, Cuba, Indo China, Vietnam, Cambodia, Central America, Ukraine, Eastern Germany, Eastern Europe, it's blight was worse than fascism or Nazism. Mixed race "foreigners" certainly never attain any power or high up government rolls, the gap between the super wealthy and the super poor was no less, they had no better human rights, no better education and no better health service, they did get some longevity in life because everybody has manual jobs working over 40hrs a week while eating a diet that the poor could afford (basic) while the socialist government of the ussr turned everyone into an alcoholic by subsiding vodka to keep them happy with there lot in life. I just don't see any benefit in adopting socialism whatsoever but I'm willing to accept tax policy change and regulation under a free market system might be something that needs looking at. Has the world wide web and the internet led to an evolvement of both capitalism and socialism? Maybe we need 21st century definitions of both systems?" . The means of production, distribution and exchange is owned or regulated by the community or as Marx put it the transitional state between the overthrow of capitalism to communism. | |||
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"The left ALWAYS hold up Scandinavia as this socialist utopia, it used to be Venezuela but now there all eating their own dogs,dying earlier and leaving the country in droves not so much. Nobody has ever replicated the Scandinavian model at size (less people live in Norway than London)(Norway has lived on its oil for decades and without it would be poorer than Northern Ireland) Sweden is economically in trouble, Denmark have a right wing government and Finlands GDP per capita isn't that much different than the UK but the cost of living is way higher and apart from all that the diversity loving left hold up the whitest place on the plant as utopia, well g whizz who'd have thought it." So what’s the answer, fuck everyone and march forth to a totalitarian right wing state? All you seem to do is bash anyone who aspires towards a fairer society. | |||
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"The left ALWAYS hold up Scandinavia as this socialist utopia, it used to be Venezuela but now there all eating their own dogs,dying earlier and leaving the country in droves not so much. Nobody has ever replicated the Scandinavian model at size (less people live in Norway than London)(Norway has lived on its oil for decades and without it would be poorer than Northern Ireland) Sweden is economically in trouble, Denmark have a right wing government and Finlands GDP per capita isn't that much different than the UK but the cost of living is way higher and apart from all that the diversity loving left hold up the whitest place on the plant as utopia, well g whizz who'd have thought it. So what’s the answer, fuck everyone and march forth to a totalitarian right wing state? All you seem to do is bash anyone who aspires towards a fairer society. " . We already live in a fair society, in fact it's the fairest society ever created in human history. | |||
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"The left ALWAYS hold up Scandinavia as this socialist utopia, it used to be Venezuela but now there all eating their own dogs,dying earlier and leaving the country in droves not so much. Nobody has ever replicated the Scandinavian model at size (less people live in Norway than London)(Norway has lived on its oil for decades and without it would be poorer than Northern Ireland) Sweden is economically in trouble, Denmark have a right wing government and Finlands GDP per capita isn't that much different than the UK but the cost of living is way higher and apart from all that the diversity loving left hold up the whitest place on the plant as utopia, well g whizz who'd have thought it. So what’s the answer, fuck everyone and march forth to a totalitarian right wing state? All you seem to do is bash anyone who aspires towards a fairer society. . We already live in a fair society, in fact it's the fairest society ever created in human history." Yes Donald! | |||
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"The left ALWAYS hold up Scandinavia as this socialist utopia, it used to be Venezuela but now there all eating their own dogs,dying earlier and leaving the country in droves not so much. Nobody has ever replicated the Scandinavian model at size (less people live in Norway than London)(Norway has lived on its oil for decades and without it would be poorer than Northern Ireland) Sweden is economically in trouble, Denmark have a right wing government and Finlands GDP per capita isn't that much different than the UK but the cost of living is way higher and apart from all that the diversity loving left hold up the whitest place on the plant as utopia, well g whizz who'd have thought it. So what’s the answer, fuck everyone and march forth to a totalitarian right wing state? All you seem to do is bash anyone who aspires towards a fairer society. . We already live in a fair society, in fact it's the fairest society ever created in human history." Even if that was true, should we stop progress, go back? Brexit is a big step back as the gap between the haves and the have-nots inreases. But shouldn’t we all be striving for something better, today’s society would be the “fairest society ever created in human history” if it wasn’t for people trying to make change. | |||
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"The left ALWAYS hold up Scandinavia as this socialist utopia, it used to be Venezuela but now there all eating their own dogs,dying earlier and leaving the country in droves not so much. Nobody has ever replicated the Scandinavian model at size (less people live in Norway than London)(Norway has lived on its oil for decades and without it would be poorer than Northern Ireland) Sweden is economically in trouble, Denmark have a right wing government and Finlands GDP per capita isn't that much different than the UK but the cost of living is way higher and apart from all that the diversity loving left hold up the whitest place on the plant as utopia, well g whizz who'd have thought it. So what’s the answer, fuck everyone and march forth to a totalitarian right wing state? All you seem to do is bash anyone who aspires towards a fairer society. " We could all go commie like the russians did to make everyone equal, just remind me again how that worked out, how many did Stalin kill ? | |||
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"The left ALWAYS hold up Scandinavia as this socialist utopia, it used to be Venezuela but now there all eating their own dogs,dying earlier and leaving the country in droves not so much. Nobody has ever replicated the Scandinavian model at size (less people live in Norway than London)(Norway has lived on its oil for decades and without it would be poorer than Northern Ireland) Sweden is economically in trouble, Denmark have a right wing government and Finlands GDP per capita isn't that much different than the UK but the cost of living is way higher and apart from all that the diversity loving left hold up the whitest place on the plant as utopia, well g whizz who'd have thought it. So what’s the answer, fuck everyone and march forth to a totalitarian right wing state? All you seem to do is bash anyone who aspires towards a fairer society. We could all go commie like the russians did to make everyone equal, just remind me again how that worked out, how many did Stalin kill ?" Top work there. Fairer society to genocide in one swift step. | |||
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"The left ALWAYS hold up Scandinavia as this socialist utopia, it used to be Venezuela but now there all eating their own dogs,dying earlier and leaving the country in droves not so much. Nobody has ever replicated the Scandinavian model at size (less people live in Norway than London)(Norway has lived on its oil for decades and without it would be poorer than Northern Ireland) Sweden is economically in trouble, Denmark have a right wing government and Finlands GDP per capita isn't that much different than the UK but the cost of living is way higher and apart from all that the diversity loving left hold up the whitest place on the plant as utopia, well g whizz who'd have thought it. So what’s the answer, fuck everyone and march forth to a totalitarian right wing state? All you seem to do is bash anyone who aspires towards a fairer society. . We already live in a fair society, in fact it's the fairest society ever created in human history. Even if that was true, should we stop progress, go back? Brexit is a big step back as the gap between the haves and the have-nots inreases. But shouldn’t we all be striving for something better, today’s society would be the “fairest society ever created in human history” if it wasn’t for people trying to make change. " . But we didn't get to be the fairest society in human history by making rash chances on failed ideology. Like I said I'm willing to have a conversation about how to improve the market forces capitalist society we live in but when I see people hark on about socialism as the solution I realise there's little point, the taking from one and giving to another philosophy is broken. | |||
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"The left ALWAYS hold up Scandinavia as this socialist utopia, it used to be Venezuela but now there all eating their own dogs,dying earlier and leaving the country in droves not so much. Nobody has ever replicated the Scandinavian model at size (less people live in Norway than London)(Norway has lived on its oil for decades and without it would be poorer than Northern Ireland) Sweden is economically in trouble, Denmark have a right wing government and Finlands GDP per capita isn't that much different than the UK but the cost of living is way higher and apart from all that the diversity loving left hold up the whitest place on the plant as utopia, well g whizz who'd have thought it. So what’s the answer, fuck everyone and march forth to a totalitarian right wing state? All you seem to do is bash anyone who aspires towards a fairer society. . We already live in a fair society, in fact it's the fairest society ever created in human history. Yes Donald! " . Ok well name a fairer country? | |||
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"Anytime ever in history will do "Even if this were true, why does that mean we should stop trying, what makes you insecure about this concept that makes you lash out and ridicule people trying to make life fair. There is still plenty of inequality. | |||
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"Anytime ever in history will do
Even if this were true, why does that mean we should stop trying, what makes you insecure about this concept that makes you lash out and ridicule people trying to make life fair. There is still plenty of inequality.". So we can agree there's inequality, what were disagreeing about is the solution to it?. I don't think the solution is tearing up the fabric of what's given us already the fairest society in history. Can we invest in stuff and eduction to make it better for those at the bottom, sure why not, I'm open to ideas. | |||
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"That's because he was talented. Have you got a problem with talented kids excelling in life?. You need to go back and read all my posts and superflash's replies on this subject, after which you will find that you have perfectly illustrated the reality I have been attempting to get superflash to acknowledge." It's not reality....I take the point made by my Irish colleague here...if you are born into shit circumstances usually in other parts of the world ( relatively we are all privileged) your odds of success are lower...that's fair and logical. What is not logical and sticking to the original conversation is trying to extend that to say that everyone but a small elite in the uk are totally fucked
Get with the programme...we all have agency in our lives and yes talent and circumstances help but resilience and hard work can overcompensate.
I find the roll over and accept your faith angle extremely hard to stomach - especially from an ex military man | |||
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"Anytime ever in history will do
Even if this were true, why does that mean we should stop trying, what makes you insecure about this concept that makes you lash out and ridicule people trying to make life fair. There is still plenty of inequality."Agreed, can we open the floor to ideas that help the people who need it most....and not the ideas that harm the rich the most. | |||
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"Anytime ever in history will do
Even if this were true, why does that mean we should stop trying, what makes you insecure about this concept that makes you lash out and ridicule people trying to make life fair. There is still plenty of inequality."The clue is the word "conservative" they wish to preserve the status quo the wish to conserve and preserve .They loathe change they look back to what was and rarely look forwards to the future. Liberals on the other hand are progressive they are essentially futurists .They believe in change they want change .They wish to raise education levels increase equality raise awareness .They are all about elevating humanity.Moving humanity forward . It's all there in the language we use . | |||
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"Anytime ever in history will do
Even if this were true, why does that mean we should stop trying, what makes you insecure about this concept that makes you lash out and ridicule people trying to make life fair. There is still plenty of inequality.
The clue is the word "conservative" they wish to preserve the status quo the wish to conserve and preserve .They loathe change they look back to what was and rarely look forwards to the future.
Liberals on the other hand are progressive they are essentially futurists .They believe in change they want change .They wish to raise education levels increase equality raise awareness .They are all about elevating humanity.Moving humanity forward .
It's all there in the language we use . "The problem I find is that liberals don't really know what they want...and when that morphs into populism and the half baked plans that follow (it can come from the left or the right) it becomes dodgy. Constructive plans not burn it all to ground motives please | |||
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" Has the world wide web and the internet led to an evolvement of both capitalism and socialism? " Devolved...a little ideology diluted into a set of memes it's a fine tool to make people who have things quite good feel discontented. Just look at what feminism has done to typically well educated privileged young ladies...they feel the world is stacked against them. Global elite and patriarchy systematically ruining their already perfectly fine lives
It's the same thinking in different forms ... exaggerated false enemies. Fear sells. | |||
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"Ah, the old Socialism = totalitarian dictatorship argument. It's interstering, that one because nobody in the Labour Party is a revolutionary or a vanguardist, they are very much social democrats whos policies are similar to those in mixed economies found elsewhere in Europe/Scandinavia. But maybe the hysteria doesn't sound as good if you say that the left want to make our country like Denmark..... .
Which bit of Danish socialism do you wish to copy?"I don't wish to copy other countries- I wish to create our own version of a fairer society. I was merely giving examples of working mixed economies, to counter the (utterly void of evidence) argument that mixed economies "don't work". However, you are willing to believe that we have one of the most equal socities ever in spite of growing poverty and the decline of social mobility, and also wish to decrease living standards further for those who you deem to have it "too easy" (civil servants etc), so I can only assume that whatever evidence is given to you, you will dismiss, because it doesn't fit with your preconceptions. | |||
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"The way I see it is thus... When we have started to see some results from the current austerity, Labour will get back in. When Labour have spent all the money and put us firmly in the shit, the Tories will be back. It’s like a never ending see saw between spendthrift Socialists and tight fisted Conservatives. When will we ever learn?
Government debt as doubled since the Tories have been in power. Seems like they have broken the cycle.
At least with labour, some things are done for ordinary people instead of servicing big corporations and the ultra wealthy. "What tosh! If you check the Treasury statistics you will find that it is Labour governments that repay debt and Tory governments that increase debt. The only exception to this being the aftermath of the GLOBAL financial crisis that was the inevitable result of the deregulation of the banking insurance and investment industries by the Tories here, the GOP in the states and other right-wing governments around the world. But hey, what do facts count for when you feel its all the fault of the left because the right tell you it is. | |||
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"Ah, the old Socialism = totalitarian dictatorship argument. It's interstering, that one because nobody in the Labour Party is a revolutionary or a vanguardist, they are very much social democrats whos policies are similar to those in mixed economies found elsewhere in Europe/Scandinavia. But maybe the hysteria doesn't sound as good if you say that the left want to make our country like Denmark..... .
Which bit of Danish socialism do you wish to copy?
I don't wish to copy other countries- I wish to create our own version of a fairer society. I was merely giving examples of working mixed economies, to counter the (utterly void of evidence) argument that mixed economies "don't work".
However, you are willing to believe that we have one of the most equal socities ever in spite of growing poverty and the decline of social mobility, and also wish to decrease living standards further for those who you deem to have it "too easy" (civil servants etc), so I can only assume that whatever evidence is given to you, you will dismiss, because it doesn't fit with your preconceptions.". Ok that's a good start, which Danish mixed economy policy so you wish to copy, I'm only asking as you brought up the Danish scenario?. | |||
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"The way I see it is thus... When we have started to see some results from the current austerity, Labour will get back in. When Labour have spent all the money and put us firmly in the shit, the Tories will be back. It’s like a never ending see saw between spendthrift Socialists and tight fisted Conservatives. When will we ever learn?
Government debt as doubled since the Tories have been in power. Seems like they have broken the cycle.
At least with labour, some things are done for ordinary people instead of servicing big corporations and the ultra wealthy.
What tosh!
If you check the Treasury statistics you will find that it is Labour governments that repay debt and Tory governments that increase debt. The only exception to this being the aftermath of the GLOBAL financial crisis that was the inevitable result of the deregulation of the banking insurance and investment industries by the Tories here, the GOP in the states and other right-wing governments around the world.
But hey, what do facts count for when you feel its all the fault of the left because the right tell you it is. ". That's nonsense that only partisan people believe. Gov debt fell on a steady curve from 1947 to 2003 regardless of which party was in power, that's called GDP growth. Considering there's a massive lag between repaying and investment, it's as easy to say labour repay under Tory fiscal constraints as easy as it is to say Tories manage constraints from labour investment, there'd both be speculation. Tories were in power from 80-96 and labour in power from 97-10 both had about the exact same repayment and borrowing, to imagine that either party could negate worldwide problems is simply silly. Both made the same mistakes of deregulation of financial industries believing in the transitional theory of the UK moving from industrial to financial, both paid for it at the voting booth. Current labour hold no different opinions than Donald trump, they believe the UK can once again become industrial via momentary policy and tariffs,I mean sure that's a possiblity in the short term for small population countries like Switzerland or Sweden but it's not really a solution for the UK's problems. | |||
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"Anytime ever in history will do
Even if this were true, why does that mean we should stop trying, what makes you insecure about this concept that makes you lash out and ridicule people trying to make life fair. There is still plenty of inequality.
The clue is the word "conservative" they wish to preserve the status quo the wish to conserve and preserve .They loathe change they look back to what was and rarely look forwards to the future.
Liberals on the other hand are progressive they are essentially futurists .They believe in change they want change .They wish to raise education levels increase equality raise awareness .They are all about elevating humanity.Moving humanity forward .
It's all there in the language we use .
The problem I find is that liberals don't really know what they want...and when that morphs into populism and the half baked plans that follow (it can come from the left or the right) it becomes dodgy.
Constructive plans not burn it all to ground motives please "Nobody on the left want to burn anything .Another false narrative put out by the right as part of operation fear.Its the calling card of the neo con. It's the neo cons that refuse change they dig their heels because they are doing ok out of the system .They will tell you that there is no gender pay gap there is no racial discrimination And there is equality.Theyll tell you've never had so good so shut the fuck up .It's not that they are detached from reality its that they are wilfully ignorant and almost always intellectually dishonest .The neo cons need to persuade the masses that trickle down econmics works and they need to keep poor people in place for their model to work .We all know it trickles up and they are liars. | |||
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"Anytime ever in history will do
Even if this were true, why does that mean we should stop trying, what makes you insecure about this concept that makes you lash out and ridicule people trying to make life fair. There is still plenty of inequality.
The clue is the word "conservative" they wish to preserve the status quo the wish to conserve and preserve .They loathe change they look back to what was and rarely look forwards to the future.
Liberals on the other hand are progressive they are essentially futurists .They believe in change they want change .They wish to raise education levels increase equality raise awareness .They are all about elevating humanity.Moving humanity forward .
It's all there in the language we use .
The problem I find is that liberals don't really know what they want...and when that morphs into populism and the half baked plans that follow (it can come from the left or the right) it becomes dodgy.
Constructive plans not burn it all to ground motives please
Nobody on the left want to burn anything .Another false narrative put out by the right as part of operation fear.Its the calling card of the neo con.
It's the neo cons that refuse change they dig their heels because they are doing ok out of the system .They will tell you that there is no gender pay gap there is no racial discrimination And there is equality.Theyll tell you've never had so good so shut the fuck up .It's not that they are detached from reality its that they are wilfully ignorant and almost always intellectually dishonest .The neo cons need to persuade the masses that trickle down econmics works and they need to keep poor people in place for their model to work .We all know it trickles up and they are liars. "You need to read a book called factfulness and get over yourself
I'm not a neo con, I'm not left and I'm not right. I'm objective, ignore the media and use common sense.
Even IF the gender pay gap were true it would still be irrelevant...a marginal difference between two groups of sexes who relative to the rest of the world are very well paid.
You say nobody wants to burn anything but smash the patriarchy is a phrase with traction and I still haven't seen any constructive suggestions here from the left or even seen anyone drop their attitude about the man keeping them down when actually it's themselves and their weak psychology. | |||
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"Anytime ever in history will do
Even if this were true, why does that mean we should stop trying, what makes you insecure about this concept that makes you lash out and ridicule people trying to make life fair. There is still plenty of inequality.
The clue is the word "conservative" they wish to preserve the status quo the wish to conserve and preserve .They loathe change they look back to what was and rarely look forwards to the future.
Liberals on the other hand are progressive they are essentially futurists .They believe in change they want change .They wish to raise education levels increase equality raise awareness .They are all about elevating humanity.Moving humanity forward .
It's all there in the language we use .
The problem I find is that liberals don't really know what they want...and when that morphs into populism and the half baked plans that follow (it can come from the left or the right) it becomes dodgy.
Constructive plans not burn it all to ground motives please
Nobody on the left want to burn anything .Another false narrative put out by the right as part of operation fear.Its the calling card of the neo con.
It's the neo cons that refuse change they dig their heels because they are doing ok out of the system .They will tell you that there is no gender pay gap there is no racial discrimination And there is equality.Theyll tell you've never had so good so shut the fuck up .It's not that they are detached from reality its that they are wilfully ignorant and almost always intellectually dishonest .The neo cons need to persuade the masses that trickle down econmics works and they need to keep poor people in place for their model to work .We all know it trickles up and they are liars.
You need to read a book called factfulness and get over yourself
I'm not a neo con, I'm not left and I'm not right. I'm objective, ignore the media and use common sense.
Even IF the gender pay gap were true it would still be irrelevant...a marginal difference between two groups of sexes who relative to the rest of the world are very well paid.
You say nobody wants to burn anything but smash the patriarchy is a phrase with traction and I still haven't seen any constructive suggestions here from the left or even seen anyone drop their attitude about the man keeping them down when actually it's themselves and their weak psychology. "I live in hope you say something relevant .Your fearful of metaphors now.?Those scary girls/women and their movements and confrontational language .Not very alpha male getting twisted pants over "smash the patriarchy."What exactly has been broken or smashed by these ladies ? You portray yourself as in the middle yet everything i read is out of the Breitbart neo con clown play book | |||
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"Anytime ever in history will do
Even if this were true, why does that mean we should stop trying, what makes you insecure about this concept that makes you lash out and ridicule people trying to make life fair. There is still plenty of inequality.
The clue is the word "conservative" they wish to preserve the status quo the wish to conserve and preserve .They loathe change they look back to what was and rarely look forwards to the future.
Liberals on the other hand are progressive they are essentially futurists .They believe in change they want change .They wish to raise education levels increase equality raise awareness .They are all about elevating humanity.Moving humanity forward .
It's all there in the language we use .
The problem I find is that liberals don't really know what they want...and when that morphs into populism and the half baked plans that follow (it can come from the left or the right) it becomes dodgy.
Constructive plans not burn it all to ground motives please
Nobody on the left want to burn anything .Another false narrative put out by the right as part of operation fear.Its the calling card of the neo con.
It's the neo cons that refuse change they dig their heels because they are doing ok out of the system .They will tell you that there is no gender pay gap there is no racial discrimination And there is equality.Theyll tell you've never had so good so shut the fuck up .It's not that they are detached from reality its that they are wilfully ignorant and almost always intellectually dishonest .The neo cons need to persuade the masses that trickle down econmics works and they need to keep poor people in place for their model to work .We all know it trickles up and they are liars.
You need to read a book called factfulness and get over yourself
I'm not a neo con, I'm not left and I'm not right. I'm objective, ignore the media and use common sense.
Even IF the gender pay gap were true it would still be irrelevant...a marginal difference between two groups of sexes who relative to the rest of the world are very well paid.
You say nobody wants to burn anything but smash the patriarchy is a phrase with traction and I still haven't seen any constructive suggestions here from the left or even seen anyone drop their attitude about the man keeping them down when actually it's themselves and their weak psychology.
I live in hope you say something relevant .Your fearful of metaphors now.?Those scary girls/women and their movements and confrontational language .Not very alpha male getting twisted pants over "smash the patriarchy."What exactly has been broken or smashed by these ladies ?
You portray yourself as in the middle yet everything i read is out of the Breitbart neo con clown play book "Because you have confirmation bias
Go read factfulness and get some perspective. | |||
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"Anytime ever in history will do
Even if this were true, why does that mean we should stop trying, what makes you insecure about this concept that makes you lash out and ridicule people trying to make life fair. There is still plenty of inequality.
The clue is the word "conservative" they wish to preserve the status quo the wish to conserve and preserve .They loathe change they look back to what was and rarely look forwards to the future.
Liberals on the other hand are progressive they are essentially futurists .They believe in change they want change .They wish to raise education levels increase equality raise awareness .They are all about elevating humanity.Moving humanity forward .
It's all there in the language we use .
The problem I find is that liberals don't really know what they want...and when that morphs into populism and the half baked plans that follow (it can come from the left or the right) it becomes dodgy.
Constructive plans not burn it all to ground motives please
Nobody on the left want to burn anything .Another false narrative put out by the right as part of operation fear.Its the calling card of the neo con.
It's the neo cons that refuse change they dig their heels because they are doing ok out of the system .They will tell you that there is no gender pay gap there is no racial discrimination And there is equality.Theyll tell you've never had so good so shut the fuck up .It's not that they are detached from reality its that they are wilfully ignorant and almost always intellectually dishonest .The neo cons need to persuade the masses that trickle down econmics works and they need to keep poor people in place for their model to work .We all know it trickles up and they are liars.
You need to read a book called factfulness and get over yourself
I'm not a neo con, I'm not left and I'm not right. I'm objective, ignore the media and use common sense.
Even IF the gender pay gap were true it would still be irrelevant...a marginal difference between two groups of sexes who relative to the rest of the world are very well paid.
You say nobody wants to burn anything but smash the patriarchy is a phrase with traction and I still haven't seen any constructive suggestions here from the left or even seen anyone drop their attitude about the man keeping them down when actually it's themselves and their weak psychology.
I live in hope you say something relevant .Your fearful of metaphors now.?Those scary girls/women and their movements and confrontational language .Not very alpha male getting twisted pants over "smash the patriarchy."What exactly has been broken or smashed by these ladies ?
You portray yourself as in the middle yet everything i read is out of the Breitbart neo con clown play book
Because you have confirmation bias
Go read factfulness and get some perspective. "True comfirnation biases get us all from time to time .Just like you with feminism and liberals and black lives matter and me 2 movements . You would do well to remember the Ancient Greek aphorism "know thyself ". | |||
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Now go educate yourself and you might see the error of your ways, I can't recommend that book enough. | |||
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"I am liberal (in the true sense of live and let live) that's why I hate all that shit
Now go educate yourself and you might see the error of your ways, I can't recommend that book enough. "I see you enjoy your particular brand of hubris with a slice of narcissism on the side . One of my fav all time come backs is "go read a book I've read" ...Quality .Did it tell you everything you already knew...  | |||
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"I am liberal (in the true sense of live and let live) that's why I hate all that shit
Now go educate yourself and you might see the error of your ways, I can't recommend that book enough.
I see you enjoy your particular brand of hubris with a slice of narcissism on the side .
One of my fav all time come backs is "go read a book I've read" ...Quality .Did it tell you everything you already knew... "Jesus you are painfully ignorant. It's a book by a liberal Swedish doctor about all the good things happening in the world but if you want to persist in your own bubble spotting neo-cons at every corner (laughable in my case...I hate trump, brexit and I'm dating a black girl) .. that's your choice. | |||
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"I am liberal (in the true sense of live and let live) that's why I hate all that shit
Now go educate yourself and you might see the error of your ways, I can't recommend that book enough.
I see you enjoy your particular brand of hubris with a slice of narcissism on the side .
One of my fav all time come backs is "go read a book I've read" ...Quality .Did it tell you everything you already knew...
Jesus you are painfully ignorant.
It's a book by a liberal Swedish doctor about all the good things happening in the world but if you want to persist in your own bubble spotting neo-cons at every corner (laughable in my case...I hate trump, brexit and I'm dating a black girl) .. that's your choice. "Funny how you never complain about trump and the far right your beef is always with liberals day after day .Sorry son i believe nothing you've said today .As for this black girl you've thrown into the mix ... I'm sure she loves your views on black lives matter and she's happy with that glass ceiling she look up to . Motherfucker please ... | |||
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"I am liberal (in the true sense of live and let live) that's why I hate all that shit
Now go educate yourself and you might see the error of your ways, I can't recommend that book enough.
I see you enjoy your particular brand of hubris with a slice of narcissism on the side .
One of my fav all time come backs is "go read a book I've read" ...Quality .Did it tell you everything you already knew...
Jesus you are painfully ignorant.
It's a book by a liberal Swedish doctor about all the good things happening in the world but if you want to persist in your own bubble spotting neo-cons at every corner (laughable in my case...I hate trump, brexit and I'm dating a black girl) .. that's your choice.
Funny how you never complain about trump and the far right your beef is always with liberals day after day .Sorry son i believe nothing you've said today .As for this black girl you've thrown into the mix ...
I'm sure she loves your views on black lives matter and she's happy with that glass ceiling she look up to .
Motherfucker please ...
"You are just embarrassing yourself here now. Everyone can see how bad the hard right are.. the hard left are more subtle and tactful and need a bit more of the ultraviolet spotlight. | |||
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"I am liberal (in the true sense of live and let live) that's why I hate all that shit
Now go educate yourself and you might see the error of your ways, I can't recommend that book enough.
I see you enjoy your particular brand of hubris with a slice of narcissism on the side .
One of my fav all time come backs is "go read a book I've read" ...Quality .Did it tell you everything you already knew...
Jesus you are painfully ignorant.
It's a book by a liberal Swedish doctor about all the good things happening in the world but if you want to persist in your own bubble spotting neo-cons at every corner (laughable in my case...I hate trump, brexit and I'm dating a black girl) .. that's your choice.
Funny how you never complain about trump and the far right your beef is always with liberals day after day .Sorry son i believe nothing you've said today .As for this black girl you've thrown into the mix ...
I'm sure she loves your views on black lives matter and she's happy with that glass ceiling she look up to .
Motherfucker please ...
You are just embarrassing yourself here now.
Everyone can see how bad the hard right are.. the hard left are more subtle and tactful and need a bit more of the ultraviolet spotlight. "Sorry dude the moment you claimed you were the real true liberal.The game was up .The neo cons are the sly and shady ones always attempting to redefine what liberalism is .They try to make it a dirty word and associate it with mao or Stalin and another ploy is to claim they are the true liberals . It's all in the language fella as I've pointed out many times in the thread . Your not a bad person just misguided and easily lead by the right . | |||
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"I am liberal (in the true sense of live and let live) that's why I hate all that shit
Now go educate yourself and you might see the error of your ways, I can't recommend that book enough.
I see you enjoy your particular brand of hubris with a slice of narcissism on the side .
One of my fav all time come backs is "go read a book I've read" ...Quality .Did it tell you everything you already knew...
Jesus you are painfully ignorant.
It's a book by a liberal Swedish doctor about all the good things happening in the world but if you want to persist in your own bubble spotting neo-cons at every corner (laughable in my case...I hate trump, brexit and I'm dating a black girl) .. that's your choice.
Funny how you never complain about trump and the far right your beef is always with liberals day after day .Sorry son i believe nothing you've said today .As for this black girl you've thrown into the mix ...
I'm sure she loves your views on black lives matter and she's happy with that glass ceiling she look up to .
Motherfucker please ...
You are just embarrassing yourself here now.
Everyone can see how bad the hard right are.. the hard left are more subtle and tactful and need a bit more of the ultraviolet spotlight.
Sorry dude the moment you claimed you were the real true liberal.The game was up .The neo cons are the sly and shady ones always attempting to redefine what liberalism is .They try to make it a dirty word and associate it with mao or Stalin and another ploy is to claim they are the true liberals .
It's all in the language fella as I've pointed out many times in the thread .
Your not a bad person just misguided and easily lead by the right . "Nice trolling attempt but I'm not taking your bait. Have a good day of talking nonsense on the internet. | |||
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"I am liberal (in the true sense of live and let live) that's why I hate all that shit
Now go educate yourself and you might see the error of your ways, I can't recommend that book enough.
I see you enjoy your particular brand of hubris with a slice of narcissism on the side .
One of my fav all time come backs is "go read a book I've read" ...Quality .Did it tell you everything you already knew...
Jesus you are painfully ignorant.
It's a book by a liberal Swedish doctor about all the good things happening in the world but if you want to persist in your own bubble spotting neo-cons at every corner (laughable in my case...I hate trump, brexit and I'm dating a black girl) .. that's your choice.
Funny how you never complain about trump and the far right your beef is always with liberals day after day .Sorry son i believe nothing you've said today .As for this black girl you've thrown into the mix ...
I'm sure she loves your views on black lives matter and she's happy with that glass ceiling she look up to .
Motherfucker please ...
You are just embarrassing yourself here now.
Everyone can see how bad the hard right are.. the hard left are more subtle and tactful and need a bit more of the ultraviolet spotlight.
Sorry dude the moment you claimed you were the real true liberal.The game was up .The neo cons are the sly and shady ones always attempting to redefine what liberalism is .They try to make it a dirty word and associate it with mao or Stalin and another ploy is to claim they are the true liberals .
It's all in the language fella as I've pointed out many times in the thread .
Your not a bad person just misguided and easily lead by the right .
Nice trolling attempt but I'm not taking your bait. Have a good day of talking nonsense on the internet."Thanks for your input it's been a pleasure .Hopefully it's wasn't just a pleasure for me . | |||
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"yet more bullshit nouveau aile droit obfuscation by means of revising definitions of words that have existed for centuries ... fucking clowns think folks don't notice that juvenile shit "You've lost us! Can you explain? | |||
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