Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to Politics |
| Jump to newest |  |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No doubt followed by a third and a forth if people don't like the results of that one either. " I'm in favour of a run of referendums until the national will is clear i.e at least 55% if not 60% in favour of one option or the other. For massive decisions effecting a whole nation's future it only seems fair  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No doubt followed by a third and a forth if people don't like the results of that one either. I'm in favour of a run of referendums until the national will is clear i.e at least 55% if not 60% in favour of one option or the other. For massive decisions effecting a whole nation's future it only seems fair "So 60% would have to say they don't want out now to change the decision. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"i voted to leave and and still would vote to leave" I’m staying I quite like fab, why leave? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No I wouldn't out of principle. We all had a vote a decision was reached regardless if I liked the outcome or not, that's democracy. People don't like the fact we have a conservative government but we're not calling for snap elections every other month..." How often do we have elections, it’s not every month is it, would you be happy if we had them every 50 years? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No I wouldn't out of principle. We all had a vote a decision was reached regardless if I liked the outcome or not, that's democracy. People don't like the fact we have a conservative government but we're not calling for snap elections every other month..." I think Labour would if they could ....  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No I wouldn't out of principle. We all had a vote a decision was reached regardless if I liked the outcome or not, that's democracy. People don't like the fact we have a conservative government but we're not calling for snap elections every other month... How often do we have elections, it’s not every month is it, would you be happy if we had them every 50 years?" GE every 5 years but a snap elections can be called if the government in power decided to do one, obviously with consultation of the monarch. That's our democracy, I mean for a snap elections to be called now both conservative and DUP would need to agree to one. But the DUP wouldn't because they have never had such power in Westminster before. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No doubt followed by a third and a forth if people don't like the results of that one either. I'm in favour of a run of referendums until the national will is clear i.e at least 55% if not 60% in favour of one option or the other. For massive decisions effecting a whole nation's future it only seems fair
So 60% would have to say they don't want out now to change the decision. "I just think it's such a massive decision it really warrants a tad more of a mandate. I don't really care which way it goes. After 10 fucking referendums I could easily see everyone voting to just leave for fucks sake. Just to be done with the damn thing. But inaction until a genuine mandate for an action emerges seems to be a good principle to apply across the board in any situation in an enlightened democratic society. You can't have a vote put out to people about whether they want to kick start a thermonuclear war with Russia winning by less than 1% of the population and expect such a result to merit action. Mind... if such a vote won by 99% I'd still be against it So some things really shouldn't be voted on | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Another referendum sets a very dangerous constitutional precedence. We had a referendum and the result was clear, close but one side got a majority. We can’t have the situation where if we are not happy with the result we call for another. This undermines our constitution and would impact on our judicial system. Not happy with the guilty verdict in a trial? Let’s have a retrial at taxpayers expense. That is a very real possibility and one that should be avoided at all costs." Retrials happen all the time when new evidence comes to light.... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Another referendum sets a very dangerous constitutional precedence. We had a referendum and the result was clear, close but one side got a majority. We can’t have the situation where if we are not happy with the result we call for another. This undermines our constitution and would impact on our judicial system. Not happy with the guilty verdict in a trial? Let’s have a retrial at taxpayers expense. That is a very real possibility and one that should be avoided at all costs. Retrials happen all the time when new evidence comes to light...." That process doesn’t undermine our constitution though. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No doubt followed by a third and a forth if people don't like the results of that one either. I'm in favour of a run of referendums until the national will is clear i.e at least 55% if not 60% in favour of one option or the other. For massive decisions effecting a whole nation's future it only seems fair
So 60% would have to say they don't want out now to change the decision.
I just think it's such a massive decision it really warrants a tad more of a mandate. I don't really care which way it goes. After 10 fucking referendums I could easily see everyone voting to just leave for fucks sake. Just to be done with the damn thing.
But inaction until a genuine mandate for an action emerges seems to be a good principle to apply across the board in any situation in an enlightened democratic society. You can't have a vote put out to people about whether they want to kick start a thermonuclear war with Russia winning by less than 1% of the population and expect such a result to merit action. Mind... if such a vote won by 99% I'd still be against it So some things really shouldn't be voted on "Not going to answer that then? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Another referendum sets a very dangerous constitutional precedence. We had a referendum and the result was clear, close but one side got a majority. We can’t have the situation where if we are not happy with the result we call for another. This undermines our constitution and would impact on our judicial system. Not happy with the guilty verdict in a trial? Let’s have a retrial at taxpayers expense. That is a very real possibility and one that should be avoided at all costs." Agreed and I’m a remainer. I do think it would be a different result though if it was done again but that’s life. What’s done is done. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I have a great idea! If you voted remain, your house remains EU, if you voted leave your house leaves the EU. If different family members voted differently, allocate rooms accordingly. If couples voted differently, split the bed in half. There problem solved, genius right? "Love this. Voted remain? You passport is burgundy and you get the freedoms of Europe. Voted leave? You passport is blue and you don't. Sucks to be you... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No doubt followed by a third and a forth if people don't like the results of that one either. I'm in favour of a run of referendums until the national will is clear i.e at least 55% if not 60% in favour of one option or the other. For massive decisions effecting a whole nation's future it only seems fair
So 60% would have to say they don't want out now to change the decision.
I just think it's such a massive decision it really warrants a tad more of a mandate. I don't really care which way it goes. After 10 fucking referendums I could easily see everyone voting to just leave for fucks sake. Just to be done with the damn thing.
But inaction until a genuine mandate for an action emerges seems to be a good principle to apply across the board in any situation in an enlightened democratic society. You can't have a vote put out to people about whether they want to kick start a thermonuclear war with Russia winning by less than 1% of the population and expect such a result to merit action. Mind... if such a vote won by 99% I'd still be against it So some things really shouldn't be voted on "I agree , some things shouldn’t be voted on . And they aren’t are they ? Like wars for a start . I certainly don’t remember being asked if I wanted our troops to be sent to Iraq by the Blair government . Did you get asked ? But we were hoodwinked into believing there were weapons of mass destruction and that’s why we went in . Only to find there weren’t after the event . | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Another referendum sets a very dangerous constitutional precedence. We had a referendum and the result was clear, close but one side got a majority. We can’t have the situation where if we are not happy with the result we call for another. This undermines our constitution and would impact on our judicial system. Not happy with the guilty verdict in a trial? Let’s have a retrial at taxpayers expense. That is a very real possibility and one that should be avoided at all costs. Agreed and I’m a remainer. I do think it would be a different result though if it was done again but that’s life. What’s done is done. " I voted remain too and I wasn’t thrilled with the result but I accepted it as that’s what a democracy is all about. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No doubt followed by a third and a forth if people don't like the results of that one either. I'm in favour of a run of referendums until the national will is clear i.e at least 55% if not 60% in favour of one option or the other. For massive decisions effecting a whole nation's future it only seems fair
So 60% would have to say they don't want out now to change the decision.
I just think it's such a massive decision it really warrants a tad more of a mandate. I don't really care which way it goes. After 10 fucking referendums I could easily see everyone voting to just leave for fucks sake. Just to be done with the damn thing.
But inaction until a genuine mandate for an action emerges seems to be a good principle to apply across the board in any situation in an enlightened democratic society. You can't have a vote put out to people about whether they want to kick start a thermonuclear war with Russia winning by less than 1% of the population and expect such a result to merit action. Mind... if such a vote won by 99% I'd still be against it So some things really shouldn't be voted on
I agree , some things shouldn’t be voted on . And they aren’t are they ? Like wars for a start . I certainly don’t remember being asked if I wanted our troops to be sent to Iraq by the Blair government . Did you get asked ?
But we were hoodwinked into believing there were weapons of mass destruction and that’s why we went in . Only to find there weren’t after the event . "Yeah, they did find plenty of oil tho, loads and loads of that. I like oil it’s what they make petrol out of | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"sorry i.m really asking would you change your vote ." No. I voted remain and I'll 100% vote remain until the day I die. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"sorry i.m really asking would you change your vote . No. I voted remain and I'll 100% vote remain until the day I die." I fab had a 'like' or 'love' I would have clicked it. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"sorry i.m really asking would you change your vote . No. I voted remain and I'll 100% vote remain until the day I die. I fab had a 'like' or 'love' I would have clicked it. " Yup same here | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"But the last vote was a second vote, the first took place on the 5th June 1975." The first vote you speak of was to join a very different organisation than the one that people voted to leave. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"But the last vote was a second vote, the first took place on the 5th June 1975. The first vote you speak of was to join a very different organisation than the one that people voted to leave. " You could equally say that what people thought leave meant and how or when it may be achieved has now become totally different.. Anyone who thought it would be easy and the EU would roll over and allow us to have what we want even though we should know we couldn't as we also wrote the rules needs a head wobble.. Not saying that applies to you personally.. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"But the last vote was a second vote, the first took place on the 5th June 1975. The first vote you speak of was to join a very different organisation than the one that people voted to leave. " Absolutely, and I would still vote leave . | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"But the last vote was a second vote, the first took place on the 5th June 1975. The first vote you speak of was to join a very different organisation than the one that people voted to leave. " An EU that we were instrumental in changing many of the things that the EU has supposedly foisted on us were instigated by the UK! Another vote would clearly be democratic. What about those who are most directly affected, who were banned from voting? What about those regions, like Gibraltar and Northern Ireland whose lives are in turmoil because of this. What about all of us who didn’t vote to make ourselves poorer. What about the business owners who just want to know what the arrangements will be...? Democracy requires an informed decision. So, tell me how Britain will function outside the EU.... How will we maintain our import and export arrangements? ...customs checks? Tariffs? How will we manage the supply chain of food, of fuel, of medicines? How will we operate a regulatory framework for licensing of medicines, and the safe transfer of nuclear materials? How will we operate a regulatory framework for financial transactions? How will we manage travel arrangements, driving licenses, for work or pleasure, air space arrangements, access to airports, trains.? Or even visas and right to travel? How will access to bank accounts work for those who travel as well as those who live in other countries? What happens to the EU citizens who have made the uk their home? Those who have british partners or children? What happens to those who have set up businesses here? What happens to Uk citizens who have moved to Europe, for work or Retirement? Or those who have a European partner or children? There are thousands of questions, none of which were conside_ed before the referendum. Please don’t tell me it was democratic, when those most directly affected were banned.p from voting. Please don’t claim you knew what you were voting for, because nobody knew back then, and two years on, still nobody knows. There is no plan. There is no destination. There is not a single benefit. Anyone with half a brain can see Brexit has already caused massive damage, and will cripple the country for a generation or more. Brexit is lunacy. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No doubt followed by a third and a forth if people don't like the results of that one either. I'm in favour of a run of referendums until the national will is clear i.e at least 55% if not 60% in favour of one option or the other. For massive decisions effecting a whole nation's future it only seems fair
So 60% would have to say they don't want out now to change the decision.
I just think it's such a massive decision it really warrants a tad more of a mandate. I don't really care which way it goes. After 10 fucking referendums I could easily see everyone voting to just leave for fucks sake. Just to be done with the damn thing.
But inaction until a genuine mandate for an action emerges seems to be a good principle to apply across the board in any situation in an enlightened democratic society. You can't have a vote put out to people about whether they want to kick start a thermonuclear war with Russia winning by less than 1% of the population and expect such a result to merit action. Mind... if such a vote won by 99% I'd still be against it So some things really shouldn't be voted on
Not going to answer that then?"I'm saying that until there's a more c_edible mandate either way we should be stuck in the purgatory of endless referendums on it. The last one was a draw as far as I'm concerned, with less than 1% of the population of the UK making up its supposed mandate. That's just not enough of a mandate for me for a radical course of action. If the referendum was on privatising the NHS I'd feel the same. I don't mind if it's the will of the people to leave or to privatise the NHS. But it has to be clearly demonstrated that it genuinely is the will of the people before doing such things. I think that's eminently fair and probably should be a rule in any democracy. I can understand why you'd be against trying to procure such a genuinely c_edible mandate if you think leave can't possibly win a bigger mandate. But that fear itself betrays the reality that you know in your heart it isn't a genuinely c_edible mandate. It isn't really the will of the people. If you really believe it is the will of the people you shouldn't be afraid of proving that via several rounds of referenda. May the best argument win. You will of course claim it already has. Winning by less than 1% isn't a win in my eyes. It might be a win for deciding who should leave the Big Brother house. But it isn't a win for setting the entire nation on a radically different course  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Would the EU accept a reversal without attempting to extract even more from the UK financially and politically...not to mention some adding an amount of humiliation to the settle a score. When we have any election, almost every winning party would be replaced after a year or two because people have the wobbles. The next general election may give a very radical government which changes this country for better or worse, with far reaching consequences. Would their unpopularity force another vote because the people are unhappy? This is no different." The only thing we can say for certainty is the country is going to be a very different place in the next few years | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Would remain supporters have been so enthusiastic in their support for another referendum if the vote in 2016 had gone the other way?" It’s hard to say, we wouldn’t have taken the knock to our economy that happened after the vote, Sterling devalued against the $ and € All the jobs that have been lost as company’s have moved their headquarters out. We wouldn’t have been a laughing stock on the world stage, or have the ineptitude of the ruling powers highlighted to all insundry. In fact things would have stayed the same so who knows. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I voted remain, and still would. For me, Brexit is the single greatest act of self harm this nation has done to itself? For what? To settle a Tory civil war? That’s going well. Don’t they know civil wars can never be won? The problem for me is I’m also a believer in democracy. I hate the result, more for the lies and ignorance that achieved it and the hat_ed it unleashed, than the reality of leaving the EU. However, as the deadline approaches and the reality and consequences become more clear, I do think people should be asked, “Forgetting the lies and bullshit, this is what Brexit means... do you want it?” Last I read, an opinion poll was showing a big swing for remain... but although compiled by a Uk organisation wasn’t published in UK. I read about it on foreign media." So you believe in democracy, but also have no problem with the completely undemocratic way the EU conducts itself in it's parliament which makes decisions that affect millions of people right across Europe without involving any of the "plebs" in the process? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Would remain supporters have been so enthusiastic in their support for another referendum if the vote in 2016 had gone the other way?" If it was the exact difference the other way, then yes I would support another referendum. Vote leave had already set up another referendum vote petition on the government website before the vote took place. That's the one that got co-opted by the remainers after the referendum. There isn't a clear majority. No mandate. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"sorry i.m really asking would you change your vote ." No we wouldn't. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Would remain supporters have been so enthusiastic in their support for another referendum if the vote in 2016 had gone the other way? It’s hard to say, we wouldn’t have taken the knock to our economy that happened after the vote, Sterling devalued against the $ and € All the jobs that have been lost as company’s have moved their headquarters out. We wouldn’t have been a laughing stock on the world stage, or have the ineptitude of the ruling powers highlighted to all insundry. In fact things would have stayed the same so who knows. " And you know that how ?? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I voted remain, and still would. For me, Brexit is the single greatest act of self harm this nation has done to itself? For what? To settle a Tory civil war? That’s going well. Don’t they know civil wars can never be won? The problem for me is I’m also a believer in democracy. I hate the result, more for the lies and ignorance that achieved it and the hat_ed it unleashed, than the reality of leaving the EU. However, as the deadline approaches and the reality and consequences become more clear, I do think people should be asked, “Forgetting the lies and bullshit, this is what Brexit means... do you want it?” Last I read, an opinion poll was showing a big swing for remain... but although compiled by a Uk organisation wasn’t published in UK. I read about it on foreign media. So you believe in democracy, but also have no problem with the completely undemocratic way the EU conducts itself in it's parliament which makes decisions that affect millions of people right across Europe without involving any of the "plebs" in the process?" Do you know how the EU laws are actually made? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I voted remain, and still would. For me, Brexit is the single greatest act of self harm this nation has done to itself? For what? To settle a Tory civil war? That’s going well. Don’t they know civil wars can never be won? The problem for me is I’m also a believer in democracy. I hate the result, more for the lies and ignorance that achieved it and the hat_ed it unleashed, than the reality of leaving the EU. However, as the deadline approaches and the reality and consequences become more clear, I do think people should be asked, “Forgetting the lies and bullshit, this is what Brexit means... do you want it?” Last I read, an opinion poll was showing a big swing for remain... but although compiled by a Uk organisation wasn’t published in UK. I read about it on foreign media. So you believe in democracy, but also have no problem with the completely undemocratic way the EU conducts itself in it's parliament which makes decisions that affect millions of people right across Europe without involving any of the "plebs" in the process? Do you know how the EU laws are actually made?" Yes, and they don't involve you or I. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I voted remain, and still would. For me, Brexit is the single greatest act of self harm this nation has done to itself? For what? To settle a Tory civil war? That’s going well. Don’t they know civil wars can never be won? The problem for me is I’m also a believer in democracy. I hate the result, more for the lies and ignorance that achieved it and the hat_ed it unleashed, than the reality of leaving the EU. However, as the deadline approaches and the reality and consequences become more clear, I do think people should be asked, “Forgetting the lies and bullshit, this is what Brexit means... do you want it?” Last I read, an opinion poll was showing a big swing for remain... but although compiled by a Uk organisation wasn’t published in UK. I read about it on foreign media. So you believe in democracy, but also have no problem with the completely undemocratic way the EU conducts itself in it's parliament which makes decisions that affect millions of people right across Europe without involving any of the "plebs" in the process? Do you know how the EU laws are actually made? Yes, and they don't involve you or I." Neither do the laws made by our government... Should they be cast aside too? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No doubt followed by a third and a forth if people don't like the results of that one either. I'm in favour of a run of referendums until the national will is clear i.e at least 55% if not 60% in favour of one option or the other. For massive decisions effecting a whole nation's future it only seems fair "You don’t think almost 4% (51.9% to 48.1%) was enough of a difference?
68.85% of voting areas voting to leave
31.15% of voting areas voting to stay
#facts
It’s like saying he only won 2 out of 3, we needs best of 5! If it wasn’t so petty and childish it would be laughable BUT now comments like this really are pathetic. We all had the chance to vote and those that wanted to did, remainers just won’t stop complaining and are clutching at straws.
It’s done | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Voted leave and would still vote to leave again , how can the politicians in europe ditact laws to us when we dont vote them in? I thought the original idea was to trade with them not have your identity and powers slowly eroded until you have no voice. Frank" WE originally signed up to join the ECM (European Common Market) for the free movement of goods not the EU we have today all the other crap about laws movement of people etc. came in via the back door as the EU tries to take over all by stealth tactics. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Voted leave and would still vote to leave again , how can the politicians in europe ditact laws to us when we dont vote them in? I thought the original idea was to trade with them not have your identity and powers slowly eroded until you have no voice. Frank" Exactly this  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Would remain supporters have been so enthusiastic in their support for another referendum if the vote in 2016 had gone the other way? If it was the exact difference the other way, then yes I would support another referendum. Vote leave had already set up another referendum vote petition on the government website before the vote took place. That's the one that got co-opted by the remainers after the referendum. There isn't a clear majority. No mandate." I thought the result of the referendum was going to be a landslide for stay. I would've still been deeply unsettled with winning by 52% and would've definitely agreed with the logic that the result wasn't clear enough to base any action on.
But then I'm not a big fan of the first past the post system either. I just don't think vast groups of people should be forced into accepting policies which they hate because one more person than them wanted them. If I'm with a group of 10 friends and I ask who wants a curry and 6 say yes and 4 say no... we're not having curry. We'll find something we all kinda want. I don't see why politics shouldn't be the same  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"still think we be better off on our own doing our own trade deals" Do you know how long trade deals take? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"sorry i.m really asking would you change your vote ." I wouldn’t! I voted remain and I’d vote remain again! So, I suspect, would many who originally voted to leave! Imo the only decision which was even more catastrophically bloody stupid was the Americans voting Trump for president! Both proved, in my opinion, that the general public of both nations is pretty stupid and ignorant on the whole! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"68.85% of voting areas voting to leave 31.15% of voting areas voting to stay " What does this mean? Not come across these stats. Interested | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"sorry i.m really asking would you change your vote . I wouldn’t! I voted remain and I’d vote remain again! So, I suspect, would many who originally voted to leave! Imo the only decision which was even more catastrophically bloody stupid was the Americans voting Trump for president! Both proved, in my opinion, that the general public of both nations is pretty stupid and ignorant on the whole! " I’d voted to leave if even if people brand me stupid and ignorant I’d vote leave again | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Voted leave and would still vote to leave again , how can the politicians in europe ditact laws to us when we dont vote them in? I thought the original idea was to trade with them not have your identity and powers slowly eroded until you have no voice. Frank Exactly this " | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No doubt followed by a third and a forth if people don't like the results of that one either. I'm in favour of a run of referendums until the national will is clear i.e at least 55% if not 60% in favour of one option or the other. For massive decisions effecting a whole nation's future it only seems fair
You don’t think almost 4% (51.9% to 48.1%) was enough of a difference?
68.85% of voting areas voting to leave
31.15% of voting areas voting to stay
#facts
It’s like saying he only won 2 out of 3, we needs best of 5! If it wasn’t so petty and childish it would be laughable BUT now comments like this really are pathetic. We all had the chance to vote and those that wanted to did, remainers just won’t stop complaining and are clutching at straws.
It’s done "There is no need to ridicule other peoples opinions by attacking them with puerile comments to try and force your point across he is entitled to an opinion. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"sorry i.m really asking would you change your vote . I wouldn’t! I voted remain and I’d vote remain again! So, I suspect, would many who originally voted to leave! Imo the only decision which was even more catastrophically bloody stupid was the Americans voting Trump for president! Both proved, in my opinion, that the general public of both nations is pretty stupid and ignorant on the whole! I’d voted to leave if even if people brand me stupid and ignorant I’d vote leave again" Its not stupid or ignorant you are entitled to have an opinion and make your own decision on what you think is best. The reality is people don't know which would be best for the UK as a whole as nobody can see into the future. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"sorry i.m really asking would you change your vote . I wouldn’t! I voted remain and I’d vote remain again! So, I suspect, would many who originally voted to leave! Imo the only decision which was even more catastrophically bloody stupid was the Americans voting Trump for president! Both proved, in my opinion, that the general public of both nations is pretty stupid and ignorant on the whole! " Yes so ignorant | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"68.85% of voting areas voting to leave 31.15% of voting areas voting to stay What does this mean? Not come across these stats. Interested "The voting areas match to Local Authority Districts. It's a useless stat as the result was based solely on the total votes country wide. It does, however, give you an insight into the areas in which the majority were one or the other. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Lots of remainers asking for another vote because they didn’t like the result is lunacy. I didn’t vote for our present government so can we have another vote until we get one I’m happy with?" Another referendum might not actually include the option to change the decision back to stay. it could be weather to go accept a no deal option or whatever package ends up being agreed before next year (aka, would you like your turd deep fried or on a sandwich?) | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No doubt followed by a third and a forth if people don't like the results of that one either. I'm in favour of a run of referendums until the national will is clear i.e at least 55% if not 60% in favour of one option or the other. For massive decisions effecting a whole nation's future it only seems fair
You don’t think almost 4% (51.9% to 48.1%) was enough of a difference?
68.85% of voting areas voting to leave
31.15% of voting areas voting to stay
#facts
It’s like saying he only won 2 out of 3, we needs best of 5! If it wasn’t so petty and childish it would be laughable BUT now comments like this really are pathetic. We all had the chance to vote and those that wanted to did, remainers just won’t stop complaining and are clutching at straws.
It’s done
There is no need to ridicule other peoples opinions by attacking them with puerile comments to try and force your point across he is entitled to an opinion. "It's ok Angelina. I know it's a hot topic for some. For me, the reason why I think it's been such a hot topic ever since the result came through is precisely because both sides think it was a fluke. None more so than the brexiteers who, ever since, have been trying to stop any form of democracy taking place, first through trying to deny Parliament a vote, and now with their opposition to a rerun. All because they know it was a fluke but hide that under loud protestations of it being "the will of the people". What's become apparent, however, is that even if we voted again and the result was remain it would likely only be the same in reverse i.e 52% to stay. This also isn't a mandate. So if we commit to another referendum it should be until a certain benchmark is met. Not until the result we want is obtained. To answer the poster... No. For me a 4% win isn't enough. Especially when you look closer and find that, had 1% of the population voted for stay instead of leave, the other side would have "won". I don't know what stats you need to twist to come to the thinking that you won by 2 out of 3  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No doubt followed by a third and a forth if people don't like the results of that one either. I'm in favour of a run of referendums until the national will is clear i.e at least 55% if not 60% in favour of one option or the other. For massive decisions effecting a whole nation's future it only seems fair
You don’t think almost 4% (51.9% to 48.1%) was enough of a difference?
68.85% of voting areas voting to leave
31.15% of voting areas voting to stay
#facts
It’s like saying he only won 2 out of 3, we needs best of 5! If it wasn’t so petty and childish it would be laughable BUT now comments like this really are pathetic. We all had the chance to vote and those that wanted to did, remainers just won’t stop complaining and are clutching at straws.
It’s done
There is no need to ridicule other peoples opinions by attacking them with puerile comments to try and force your point across he is entitled to an opinion.
It's ok Angelina. I know it's a hot topic for some. For me, the reason why I think it's been such a hot topic ever since the result came through is precisely because both sides think it was a fluke. None more so than the brexiteers who, ever since, have been trying to stop any form of democracy taking place, first through trying to deny Parliament a vote, and now with their opposition to a rerun. All because they know it was a fluke but hide that under loud protestations of it being "the will of the people".
What's become apparent, however, is that even if we voted again and the result was remain it would likely only be the same in reverse i.e 52% to stay. This also isn't a mandate. So if we commit to another referendum it should be until a certain benchmark is met. Not until the result we want is obtained.
To answer the poster... No. For me a 4% win isn't enough. Especially when you look closer and find that, had 1% of the population voted for stay instead of leave, the other side would have "won". I don't know what stats you need to twist to come to the thinking that you won by 2 out of 3 " | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"But the last vote was a second vote, the first took place on the 5th June 1975. The first vote you speak of was to join a very different organisation than the one that people voted to leave. An EU that we were instrumental in changing many of the things that the EU has supposedly foisted on us were instigated by the UK! Another vote would clearly be democratic. What about those who are most directly affected, who were banned from voting? What about those regions, like Gibraltar and Northern Ireland whose lives are in turmoil because of this. What about all of us who didn’t vote to make ourselves poorer. What about the business owners who just want to know what the arrangements will be...? Democracy requires an informed decision. So, tell me how Britain will function outside the EU.... How will we maintain our import and export arrangements? ...customs checks? Tariffs? How will we manage the supply chain of food, of fuel, of medicines? How will we operate a regulatory framework for licensing of medicines, and the safe transfer of nuclear materials? How will we operate a regulatory framework for financial transactions? How will we manage travel arrangements, driving licenses, for work or pleasure, air space arrangements, access to airports, trains.? Or even visas and right to travel? How will access to bank accounts work for those who travel as well as those who live in other countries? What happens to the EU citizens who have made the uk their home? Those who have british partners or children? What happens to those who have set up businesses here? What happens to Uk citizens who have moved to Europe, for work or Retirement? Or those who have a European partner or children? There are thousands of questions, none of which were conside_ed before the referendum. Please don’t tell me it was democratic, when those most directly affected were banned.p from voting. Please don’t claim you knew what you were voting for, because nobody knew back then, and two years on, still nobody knows. There is no plan. There is no destination. There is not a single benefit. Anyone with half a brain can see Brexit has already caused massive damage, and will cripple the country for a generation or more. Brexit is lunacy." Did any of you leavers genuinely vote for this? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No doubt followed by a third and a forth if people don't like the results of that one either. I'm in favour of a run of referendums until the national will is clear i.e at least 55% if not 60% in favour of one option or the other. For massive decisions effecting a whole nation's future it only seems fair
You don’t think almost 4% (51.9% to 48.1%) was enough of a difference?
68.85% of voting areas voting to leave
31.15% of voting areas voting to stay
#facts
It’s like saying he only won 2 out of 3, we needs best of 5! If it wasn’t so petty and childish it would be laughable BUT now comments like this really are pathetic. We all had the chance to vote and those that wanted to did, remainers just won’t stop complaining and are clutching at straws.
It’s done
There is no need to ridicule other peoples opinions by attacking them with puerile comments to try and force your point across he is entitled to an opinion.
It's ok Angelina. I know it's a hot topic for some. For me, the reason why I think it's been such a hot topic ever since the result came through is precisely because both sides think it was a fluke. None more so than the brexiteers who, ever since, have been trying to stop any form of democracy taking place, first through trying to deny Parliament a vote, and now with their opposition to a rerun. All because they know it was a fluke but hide that under loud protestations of it being "the will of the people".
What's become apparent, however, is that even if we voted again and the result was remain it would likely only be the same in reverse i.e 52% to stay. This also isn't a mandate. So if we commit to another referendum it should be until a certain benchmark is met. Not until the result we want is obtained.
To answer the poster... No. For me a 4% win isn't enough. Especially when you look closer and find that, had 1% of the population voted for stay instead of leave, the other side would have "won". I don't know what stats you need to twist to come to the thinking that you won by 2 out of 3 "Some have pointed out quite rightly we never voted for Europe to govern as much as it has been doing So you could argue that we should have had to have 60% to remain in. That's not an unreasonable way of looking at it and using your 60% ratio it fell short by 14% to remain in. After all this is the first referendum on should we be in our to of Europe. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"And not forgetting the the EU have to make this as painful as possible. Not just because they see us as a valuable contributor to the EU, but if it is seen that we could leave and do well outside of Europe, other countries might think it is a good idea... We are fucked in the short term, but long term we will reap the rewards." Sadly thats very much true if they think that we may have another referendum they will make terms for leaving really bad. However if tariffs are introduced they will go both ways and French and German car makers will have things to say. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Nothing to do with op If I have someone blocked can they purposely use forum to contact me, even quoting my comment ?? " They are allowed to interact with you on the forum, just not ask about the block or use it to get round the block. So as long as the comment they made was in line with the general discussion, it is allowed. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Nothing to do with op If I have someone blocked can they purposely use forum to contact me, even quoting my comment ?? They are allowed to interact with you on the forum, just not ask about the block or use it to get round the block. So as long as the comment they made was in line with the general discussion, it is allowed." Ok, thank you | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Some have pointed out quite rightly we never voted for Europe to govern as much as it has been doing So you could argue that we should have had to have 60% to remain in. That's not an unreasonable way of looking at it and using your 60% ratio it fell short by 14% to remain in. After all this is the first referendum on should we be in our to of Europe. " I'm all about being fair. If we were out I'd expect a referendum to go in to have shown a mandate. This is what happened back in 1975 and enter won by 67% to 32%. This is what a clear mandate looks like. I'd expect something similar to leave. I can't see the logic of saying that, in the event of a tie, the default between remaining on a certain course and changing it entirely should be changing it entirely. I can't see that working well if rolled out to other areas of democracy. A vote to either keep or scrap the NHS ends in a draw so we scrap it??? Nah. It's incumbent upon the side who wants to change course to elicit enough support for that change imo | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Some have pointed out quite rightly we never voted for Europe to govern as much as it has been doing So you could argue that we should have had to have 60% to remain in. That's not an unreasonable way of looking at it and using your 60% ratio it fell short by 14% to remain in. After all this is the first referendum on should we be in our to of Europe. I'm all about being fair. If we were out I'd expect a referendum to go in to have shown a mandate. This is what happened back in 1975 and enter won by 67% to 32%. This is what a clear mandate looks like. I'd expect something similar to leave. I can't see the logic of saying that, in the event of a tie, the default between remaining on a certain course and changing it entirely should be changing it entirely. I can't see that working well if rolled out to other areas of democracy. A vote to either keep or scrap the NHS ends in a draw so we scrap it??? Nah. It's incumbent upon the side who wants to change course to elicit enough support for that change imo"If you want, donate almost 4% of your income to me and see if you feel the difference in the long term. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Some have pointed out quite rightly we never voted for Europe to govern as much as it has been doing So you could argue that we should have had to have 60% to remain in. That's not an unreasonable way of looking at it and using your 60% ratio it fell short by 14% to remain in. After all this is the first referendum on should we be in our to of Europe. I'm all about being fair. If we were out I'd expect a referendum to go in to have shown a mandate. This is what happened back in 1975 and enter won by 67% to 32%. This is what a clear mandate looks like. I'd expect something similar to leave. I can't see the logic of saying that, in the event of a tie, the default between remaining on a certain course and changing it entirely should be changing it entirely. I can't see that working well if rolled out to other areas of democracy. A vote to either keep or scrap the NHS ends in a draw so we scrap it??? Nah. It's incumbent upon the side who wants to change course to elicit enough support for that change imo"But in 1975 we didn't vote for what is currently in place as said by others the EU as we have it now hardly resembles what we have now that cannot be denied that is essentially why people have voted out. If and its a bit IF the people in the UK had been able to vote on free movement of EU citizens and on the power of the EU court system then there wouldn't have been a vote as they are the main issues. Your 60% issue is a remainers argument pure and simple. It was stated pre vote that yes or no had only to pass the 50% margin so the vote stands. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Some have pointed out quite rightly we never voted for Europe to govern as much as it has been doing So you could argue that we should have had to have 60% to remain in. That's not an unreasonable way of looking at it and using your 60% ratio it fell short by 14% to remain in. After all this is the first referendum on should we be in our to of Europe. I'm all about being fair. If we were out I'd expect a referendum to go in to have shown a mandate. This is what happened back in 1975 and enter won by 67% to 32%. This is what a clear mandate looks like. I'd expect something similar to leave. I can't see the logic of saying that, in the event of a tie, the default between remaining on a certain course and changing it entirely should be changing it entirely. I can't see that working well if rolled out to other areas of democracy. A vote to either keep or scrap the NHS ends in a draw so we scrap it??? Nah. It's incumbent upon the side who wants to change course to elicit enough support for that change imo
But in 1975 we didn't vote for what is currently in place as said by others the EU as we have it now hardly resembles what we have now that cannot be denied that is essentially why people have voted out. If and its a bit IF the people in the UK had been able to vote on free movement of EU citizens and on the power of the EU court system then there wouldn't have been a vote as they are the main issues. Your 60% issue is a remainers argument pure and simple. It was stated pre vote that yes or no had only to pass the 50% margin so the vote stands. "I agree with you that people didn't vote to join what it became. But two injustices don't make a right imo. If so, you didn't actually need a referendum. You should've just petitioned for the government to pull us out without a vote. That would've been symmetric. Unjust. But symmetric. Personally, as I've said several times, I'm happy to cede to whoever wins. I just think they should win it fair and square. Anything less just isn't cricket. It wasn't when they led us into the EU and it wouldn't be in pulling us out. It is not the result of the referendum that sticks in my throat the most. It's the claim it represents the will of the people and the effort to surpress any of the mechanisms of democracy to try and push it through before the tide turns. That's what sticks in my throat. If leave is the will of the people you brexiteers should be applauding a second referendum as a final "put up shut up" answer to moany deluded remainers. That you aren't betrays the fact that you know it was a fluke | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If they did do a second referendum I hope it be a no deal Brexit and trade on WTO rules on the paper so when leave win again it stop people moaning " Now that's more like it. Good on you | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Some have pointed out quite rightly we never voted for Europe to govern as much as it has been doing So you could argue that we should have had to have 60% to remain in. That's not an unreasonable way of looking at it and using your 60% ratio it fell short by 14% to remain in. After all this is the first referendum on should we be in our to of Europe. I'm all about being fair. If we were out I'd expect a referendum to go in to have shown a mandate. This is what happened back in 1975 and enter won by 67% to 32%. This is what a clear mandate looks like. I'd expect something similar to leave. I can't see the logic of saying that, in the event of a tie, the default between remaining on a certain course and changing it entirely should be changing it entirely. I can't see that working well if rolled out to other areas of democracy. A vote to either keep or scrap the NHS ends in a draw so we scrap it??? Nah. It's incumbent upon the side who wants to change course to elicit enough support for that change imo
But in 1975 we didn't vote for what is currently in place as said by others the EU as we have it now hardly resembles what we have now that cannot be denied that is essentially why people have voted out. If and its a bit IF the people in the UK had been able to vote on free movement of EU citizens and on the power of the EU court system then there wouldn't have been a vote as they are the main issues. Your 60% issue is a remainers argument pure and simple. It was stated pre vote that yes or no had only to pass the 50% margin so the vote stands.
I agree with you that people didn't vote to join what it became. But two injustices don't make a right imo. If so, you didn't actually need a referendum. You should've just petitioned for the government to pull us out without a vote. That would've been symmetric. Unjust. But symmetric.
Personally, as I've said several times, I'm happy to cede to whoever wins. I just think they should win it fair and square. Anything less just isn't cricket. It wasn't when they led us into the EU and it wouldn't be in pulling us out.
It is not the result of the referendum that sticks in my throat the most. It's the claim it represents the will of the people and the effort to surpress any of the mechanisms of democracy to try and push it through before the tide turns. That's what sticks in my throat.
If leave is the will of the people you brexiteers should be applauding a second referendum as a final "put up shut up" answer to moany deluded remainers. That you aren't betrays the fact that you know it was a fluke "Then the vote should have been compulsory for all of voting age you would have had your 60% as the majority of the apathetic non voters apparently would have voted out. Alternatively we could have let Under 18s vote and it would have swung to remain (as long as no compulsory voting applied) The sad reality is the majority voted on the fear factor. Fear of being swamped with immigrants and the high costs if we stopped in or fear of the unknown if we left. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If they did do a second referendum I hope it be a no deal Brexit and trade on WTO rules on the paper so when leave win again it stop people moaning " I have to agree apparently there would be a net gain on tariffs based on this if that was the only issue. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If they did do a second referendum I hope it be a no deal Brexit and trade on WTO rules on the paper so when leave win again it stop people moaning " I've always said that any second vote should be in two parts. Question 1) In or Out Question 2) If out wins, which option would you like? Mays deal No deal | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If they did do a second referendum I hope it be a no deal Brexit and trade on WTO rules on the paper so when leave win again it stop people moaning I've always said that any second vote should be in two parts. Question 1) In or Out Question 2) If out wins, which option would you like? Mays deal No deal" Perhaps unusually, considering what I've been arguing, I think a better approach might be a vote on which brexit option you want the most, followed by a check box for registering protest at leaving. If any more than a certain percentage of people protest the whole thing then that would invoke a genuine second referendum on the core question of leave vs stay. I only say this because everyone has made such a fuss about the whole thing that I suspect running a genuine second referendum again, with leave as an option, would be political suicide for any party that suggested it. The inclusion of the ability to protest on a referendum about the shape of brexit feels like it might be more palatable. It would show there was a popular call for another referendum which brexiteers couldn't deny But if you disagree I don't want to lock antlers with you | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If they did do a second referendum I hope it be a no deal Brexit and trade on WTO rules on the paper so when leave win again it stop people moaning " That sounds a bit too clever for all of us leavers to understand as the majority of the remainers posts on this thread either imply or downright accuse us of being 'stupid' or 'brainless'. Whether it was right or wrong to put the vote to the public, that's what they did and democracy will be the only loser if we have another referendum. If all you remainers think life is so great being in Europe, here's an idea for you...Fuck off to a foreign country where life's better and leave us to rot with our xenophobic/racist/stupid/brainless (delete as appropriate) countrymen. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If they did do a second referendum I hope it be a no deal Brexit and trade on WTO rules on the paper so when leave win again it stop people moaning That sounds a bit too clever for all of us leavers to understand as the majority of the remainers posts on this thread either imply or downright accuse us of being 'stupid' or 'brainless'. Whether it was right or wrong to put the vote to the public, that's what they did and democracy will be the only loser if we have another referendum. If all you remainers think life is so great being in Europe, here's an idea for you...Fuck off to a foreign country where life's better and leave us to rot with our xenophobic/racist/stupid/brainless (delete as appropriate) countrymen." Too bloody right! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If they did do a second referendum I hope it be a no deal Brexit and trade on WTO rules on the paper so when leave win again it stop people moaning That sounds a bit too clever for all of us leavers to understand as the majority of the remainers posts on this thread either imply or downright accuse us of being 'stupid' or 'brainless'. Whether it was right or wrong to put the vote to the public, that's what they did and democracy will be the only loser if we have another referendum. If all you remainers think life is so great being in Europe, here's an idea for you...Fuck off to a foreign country where life's better and leave us to rot with our xenophobic/racist/stupid/brainless (delete as appropriate) countrymen. Too bloody right! "Isn't the whole point of remaining that a whole load of us can bugger off to Spain? You can stay. But if there's a part of the world I'm allowed to live in, has exactly the same laws as the UK, and has more reliable summers I'm going to milk that. The UK used to own the whole of Europe until you lot came along and pulled up the draw bridge | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If they did do a second referendum I hope it be a no deal Brexit and trade on WTO rules on the paper so when leave win again it stop people moaning That sounds a bit too clever for all of us leavers to understand as the majority of the remainers posts on this thread either imply or downright accuse us of being 'stupid' or 'brainless'. Whether it was right or wrong to put the vote to the public, that's what they did and democracy will be the only loser if we have another referendum. If all you remainers think life is so great being in Europe, here's an idea for you...Fuck off to a foreign country where life's better and leave us to rot with our xenophobic/racist/stupid/brainless (delete as appropriate) countrymen." Ok, so let me get this straight. You are saying that those people who don’t feel that same as you and are using their democratic right to voice their opinion and vote and hold out government to account on their actions, should fuck off and leave the country? Our country. Do you have any more right to be here than I do? Are you more ‘British’ than I am just because you think our best chance of success in this world is to pull up the drawbridge? And I think our best chance is to work closer with our neighbours and have a more inclusive and diverse society? You seem to think that just because of that I might want to live elsewhere? Why is that? I, personally, don’t. I want to live in the UK. Is that a problem for you? Just because I think we are a stronger nation as a part of the EU than outside it? Because I think that this excercise is going to be a very expensive mistake? This is the thing that I REALLY hate about the whole Brexit process, is that is has given people like you the false impression they have the right to tell other British citizens to fuck off. -Matt | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If they did do a second referendum I hope it be a no deal Brexit and trade on WTO rules on the paper so when leave win again it stop people moaning That sounds a bit too clever for all of us leavers to understand as the majority of the remainers posts on this thread either imply or downright accuse us of being 'stupid' or 'brainless'. Whether it was right or wrong to put the vote to the public, that's what they did and democracy will be the only loser if we have another referendum. If all you remainers think life is so great being in Europe, here's an idea for you...Fuck off to a foreign country where life's better and leave us to rot with our xenophobic/racist/stupid/brainless (delete as appropriate) countrymen. Ok, so let me get this straight. You are saying that those people who don’t feel that same as you and are using their democratic right to voice their opinion and vote and hold out government to account on their actions, should fuck off and leave the country? Our country. Do you have any more right to be here than I do? Are you more ‘British’ than I am just because you think our best chance of success in this world is to pull up the drawbridge? And I think our best chance is to work closer with our neighbours and have a more inclusive and diverse society? You seem to think that just because of that I might want to live elsewhere? Why is that? I, personally, don’t. I want to live in the UK. Is that a problem for you? Just because I think we are a stronger nation as a part of the EU than outside it? Because I think that this excercise is going to be a very expensive mistake? This is the thing that I REALLY hate about the whole Brexit process, is that is has given people like you the false impression they have the right to tell other British citizens to fuck off. -Matt" Or we could embrace the Commonwealth? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Or we could embrace the Commonwealth?" If you think it's tough getting a deal with the EU, wait until you have to deal with the likes of India. I get the impression ome on here confuse commonwealth with empire. These countries are our equals, not our colonies. They will want their lb of flesh, the same as every other country the UK has to negotiate with. And every international agreement is a trade-off - giving up sovereignty for some perceived benefit. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If they did do a second referendum I hope it be a no deal Brexit and trade on WTO rules on the paper so when leave win again it stop people moaning That sounds a bit too clever for all of us leavers to understand as the majority of the remainers posts on this thread either imply or downright accuse us of being 'stupid' or 'brainless'. Whether it was right or wrong to put the vote to the public, that's what they did and democracy will be the only loser if we have another referendum. If all you remainers think life is so great being in Europe, here's an idea for you...Fuck off to a foreign country where life's better and leave us to rot with our xenophobic/racist/stupid/brainless (delete as appropriate) countrymen. Ok, so let me get this straight. You are saying that those people who don’t feel that same as you and are using their democratic right to voice their opinion and vote and hold out government to account on their actions, should fuck off and leave the country? Our country. Do you have any more right to be here than I do? Are you more ‘British’ than I am just because you think our best chance of success in this world is to pull up the drawbridge? And I think our best chance is to work closer with our neighbours and have a more inclusive and diverse society? You seem to think that just because of that I might want to live elsewhere? Why is that? I, personally, don’t. I want to live in the UK. Is that a problem for you? Just because I think we are a stronger nation as a part of the EU than outside it? Because I think that this excercise is going to be a very expensive mistake? This is the thing that I REALLY hate about the whole Brexit process, is that is has given people like you the false impression they have the right to tell other British citizens to fuck off. -Matt" What I'm saying is not giving Eu special treatment and treat them the same as any non Eu countries. If Eu union say no trade with UK using WTO so be it we import and export from other non EU countries and maybe posh wine and posh cars won't come here so what the poor fork don't gave a dam. If UK make trades with non Eu countries tariff free make food cheaper but then it's up to the shops lower their prices but then the CEO won't be happy as it's not making them Rich | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If they did do a second referendum I hope it be a no deal Brexit and trade on WTO rules on the paper so when leave win again it stop people moaning That sounds a bit too clever for all of us leavers to understand as the majority of the remainers posts on this thread either imply or downright accuse us of being 'stupid' or 'brainless'. Whether it was right or wrong to put the vote to the public, that's what they did and democracy will be the only loser if we have another referendum. If all you remainers think life is so great being in Europe, here's an idea for you...Fuck off to a foreign country where life's better and leave us to rot with our xenophobic/racist/stupid/brainless (delete as appropriate) countrymen. Ok, so let me get this straight. You are saying that those people who don’t feel that same as you and are using their democratic right to voice their opinion and vote and hold out government to account on their actions, should fuck off and leave the country? Our country. Do you have any more right to be here than I do? Are you more ‘British’ than I am just because you think our best chance of success in this world is to pull up the drawbridge? And I think our best chance is to work closer with our neighbours and have a more inclusive and diverse society? You seem to think that just because of that I might want to live elsewhere? Why is that? I, personally, don’t. I want to live in the UK. Is that a problem for you? Just because I think we are a stronger nation as a part of the EU than outside it? Because I think that this excercise is going to be a very expensive mistake? This is the thing that I REALLY hate about the whole Brexit process, is that is has given people like you the false impression they have the right to tell other British citizens to fuck off. -Matt What I'm saying is not giving Eu special treatment and treat them the same as any non Eu countries. If Eu union say no trade with UK using WTO so be it we import and export from other non EU countries and maybe posh wine and posh cars won't come here so what the poor fork don't gave a dam. If UK make trades with non Eu countries tariff free make food cheaper but then it's up to the shops lower their prices but then the CEO won't be happy as it's not making them Rich" Hoooooooollllly fuck. Seriously? Your view is that imports and exports are just about "posh wine and posh cars' and don't affect poor folk? -Matt | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Hoooooooollllly fuck. Seriously? Your view is that imports and exports are just about "posh wine and posh cars' and don't affect poor folk? -Matt" A 2000 South Bank University research paper estimated 3,445,000 jobs in the UK "depend upon exports to the EU" - 2.5 million directly and 900,000 indirectly. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Hoooooooollllly fuck. Seriously? Your view is that imports and exports are just about "posh wine and posh cars' and don't affect poor folk? -Matt A 2000 South Bank University research paper estimated 3,445,000 jobs in the UK "depend upon exports to the EU" - 2.5 million directly and 900,000 indirectly. " Did it say how many Eu jobs depend on exports to ths Uk! Trade is a two way process didn't you know!? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If they did do a second referendum I hope it be a no deal Brexit and trade on WTO rules on the paper so when leave win again it stop people moaning I've always said that any second vote should be in two parts. Question 1) In or Out Question 2) If out wins, which option would you like? Mays deal No deal Perhaps unusually, considering what I've been arguing, I think a better approach might be a vote on which brexit option you want the most, followed by a check box for registering protest at leaving. If any more than a certain percentage of people protest the whole thing then that would invoke a genuine second referendum on the core question of leave vs stay. I only say this because everyone has made such a fuss about the whole thing that I suspect running a genuine second referendum again, with leave as an option, would be political suicide for any party that suggested it. The inclusion of the ability to protest on a referendum about the shape of brexit feels like it might be more palatable. It would show there was a popular call for another referendum which brexiteers couldn't deny But if you disagree I don't want to lock antlers with you "The only reason I thought about the two part question is because I would like the option to register my dissent at leaving. If you had one question with three options, then too many leavers would object. The other option would be to rank the options in order of preference, but as it was apparently deemed too confusing a concept when put forward as a potential voting system, I don't think that will go through somehow | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If they did do a second referendum I hope it be a no deal Brexit and trade on WTO rules on the paper so when leave win again it stop people moaning That sounds a bit too clever for all of us leavers to understand as the majority of the remainers posts on this thread either imply or downright accuse us of being 'stupid' or 'brainless'. Whether it was right or wrong to put the vote to the public, that's what they did and democracy will be the only loser if we have another referendum. If all you remainers think life is so great being in Europe, here's an idea for you...Fuck off to a foreign country where life's better and leave us to rot with our xenophobic/racist/stupid/brainless (delete as appropriate) countrymen." I'm a British Citizen. After Brexit, I will only be able to legally live in Britain. That's one of the outcomes of it | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Did it say how many Eu jobs depend on exports to ths Uk! Trade is a two way process didn't you know!? "I imagine that study has been done, yes, but it wasn't relevant to the point that had been raised - that it's only "posh people" in the UK who'll be affected by a return to trade barriers between countries. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"sorry i.m really asking would you change your vote . I wouldn’t! I voted remain and I’d vote remain again! So, I suspect, would many who originally voted to leave! Imo the only decision which was even more catastrophically bloody stupid was the Americans voting Trump for president! Both proved, in my opinion, that the general public of both nations is pretty stupid and ignorant on the whole! " You have just shown again that remain voters think they are cleverer than leave voters, you are entitled to think you are right in wanting to stay in the EU but its wrong to then think that those with different views are stupid and ignorant because from their standpoint its right to leave | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If they did do a second referendum I hope it be a no deal Brexit and trade on WTO rules on the paper so when leave win again it stop people moaning That sounds a bit too clever for all of us leavers to understand as the majority of the remainers posts on this thread either imply or downright accuse us of being 'stupid' or 'brainless'. Whether it was right or wrong to put the vote to the public, that's what they did and democracy will be the only loser if we have another referendum. If all you remainers think life is so great being in Europe, here's an idea for you...Fuck off to a foreign country where life's better and leave us to rot with our xenophobic/racist/stupid/brainless (delete as appropriate) countrymen. I'm a British Citizen. After Brexit, I will only be able to legally live in Britain. That's one of the outcomes of it "So all those uk citizens that live in the US/OZ/NZ etc etc are doing so illegally? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If you read what I wrote but you so mind set about being in the European Union nothing will get through to you that's a shame as there a bigger world out there not just 26 other Eu nations and some of thinking of leaving too" Yes, there is a bigger world out there. Well done. So, what has that got to do with us deliberately walking away from a whole bunch of trade agreements we have with them? -Matt | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If they did do a second referendum I hope it be a no deal Brexit and trade on WTO rules on the paper so when leave win again it stop people moaning That sounds a bit too clever for all of us leavers to understand as the majority of the remainers posts on this thread either imply or downright accuse us of being 'stupid' or 'brainless'. Whether it was right or wrong to put the vote to the public, that's what they did and democracy will be the only loser if we have another referendum. If all you remainers think life is so great being in Europe, here's an idea for you...Fuck off to a foreign country where life's better and leave us to rot with our xenophobic/racist/stupid/brainless (delete as appropriate) countrymen. I'm a British Citizen. After Brexit, I will only be able to legally live in Britain. That's one of the outcomes of it
So all those uk citizens that live in the US/OZ/NZ etc etc are doing so illegally?"They will have a visa. We have no idea what the EU will allow us to do following Brexit. They are within their rights to chuck everyone out - as we could all EU citizens too. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Brexitology... Demand that democracy is respected by insisting that democracy is curtailed. " | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If they did do a second referendum I hope it be a no deal Brexit and trade on WTO rules on the paper so when leave win again it stop people moaning That sounds a bit too clever for all of us leavers to understand as the majority of the remainers posts on this thread either imply or downright accuse us of being 'stupid' or 'brainless'. Whether it was right or wrong to put the vote to the public, that's what they did and democracy will be the only loser if we have another referendum. If all you remainers think life is so great being in Europe, here's an idea for you...Fuck off to a foreign country where life's better and leave us to rot with our xenophobic/racist/stupid/brainless (delete as appropriate) countrymen." 1. Democracy can't lose through more democracy. 2. If you don't like EU so much and we're currently still a member then why don't you leave and piss of to the USA or Russia? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If they did do a second referendum I hope it be a no deal Brexit and trade on WTO rules on the paper so when leave win again it stop people moaning That sounds a bit too clever for all of us leavers to understand as the majority of the remainers posts on this thread either imply or downright accuse us of being 'stupid' or 'brainless'. Whether it was right or wrong to put the vote to the public, that's what they did and democracy will be the only loser if we have another referendum. If all you remainers think life is so great being in Europe, here's an idea for you...Fuck off to a foreign country where life's better and leave us to rot with our xenophobic/racist/stupid/brainless (delete as appropriate) countrymen. Ok, so let me get this straight. You are saying that those people who don’t feel that same as you and are using their democratic right to voice their opinion and vote and hold out government to account on their actions, should fuck off and leave the country? Our country. Do you have any more right to be here than I do? Are you more ‘British’ than I am just because you think our best chance of success in this world is to pull up the drawbridge? And I think our best chance is to work closer with our neighbours and have a more inclusive and diverse society? You seem to think that just because of that I might want to live elsewhere? Why is that? I, personally, don’t. I want to live in the UK. Is that a problem for you? Just because I think we are a stronger nation as a part of the EU than outside it? Because I think that this excercise is going to be a very expensive mistake? This is the thing that I REALLY hate about the whole Brexit process, is that is has given people like you the false impression they have the right to tell other British citizens to fuck off. -Matt" Oooh!!! People like me eh? People who voted with our heads (as I'm far from being a pushover to anybodies rhetoric if I don't believe in the cause) as opposed to people like you who can't accept that the democratic process has happened. We can trade under WTO rules and in a lot of cases things will be cheaper as we don't have to accept the cartel reasoning behind the EU directives. We import far more than we export so do you really think the EU will stop trying to sell us all their cars,cheese,wine,furniture and Lego when we leave? Our fishermen have to throw dead fish back into the sea because of EU directives, do you think that's OK? Do you think every rapist,murderer, kiddy fiddler or lowlife criminal should be able to move in next door to you without proper checks or should we have an immigration policy similar to Australia whereby they pick exactly who they want to move their? Do you really think that Europe is going to tell all the holiday makers that spend millions of pounds in their countries that they're no longer welcome to come? I'm not sure why so many people think that Europe loves us and wants us to stay as you only have to look at foreign news (and even Eurovision) to see what they really think of us and the only reason the EU are making it so hard for us to leave amicably is to put off the other richer countries in Europe from doing the same. The 'fuck off' comment was also made in the same vein as the ones who tell people who don't like Fab to 'do one and mind the door doesn't slam them in the arse on the way out' but if you want to see it your way then feel free to do so...Me, I'll just carry on being me and do my best to make things work out without spitting the dummy out when I don't get my own way. After all, I've had many years of practice after being shafted by every government that's been in power since I left school and I can't help but have a wry smile at finally being able stick two fingers up at the powers that be. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If they did do a second referendum I hope it be a no deal Brexit and trade on WTO rules on the paper so when leave win again it stop people moaning That sounds a bit too clever for all of us leavers to understand as the majority of the remainers posts on this thread either imply or downright accuse us of being 'stupid' or 'brainless'. Whether it was right or wrong to put the vote to the public, that's what they did and democracy will be the only loser if we have another referendum. If all you remainers think life is so great being in Europe, here's an idea for you...Fuck off to a foreign country where life's better and leave us to rot with our xenophobic/racist/stupid/brainless (delete as appropriate) countrymen. Ok, so let me get this straight. You are saying that those people who don’t feel that same as you and are using their democratic right to voice their opinion and vote and hold out government to account on their actions, should fuck off and leave the country? Our country. Do you have any more right to be here than I do? Are you more ‘British’ than I am just because you think our best chance of success in this world is to pull up the drawbridge? And I think our best chance is to work closer with our neighbours and have a more inclusive and diverse society? You seem to think that just because of that I might want to live elsewhere? Why is that? I, personally, don’t. I want to live in the UK. Is that a problem for you? Just because I think we are a stronger nation as a part of the EU than outside it? Because I think that this excercise is going to be a very expensive mistake? This is the thing that I REALLY hate about the whole Brexit process, is that is has given people like you the false impression they have the right to tell other British citizens to fuck off. -Matt Oooh!!! People like me eh? People who voted with our heads (as I'm far from being a pushover to anybodies rhetoric if I don't believe in the cause) as opposed to people like you who can't accept that the democratic process has happened. We can trade under WTO rules and in a lot of cases things will be cheaper as we don't have to accept the cartel reasoning behind the EU directives. We import far more than we export so do you really think the EU will stop trying to sell us all their cars,cheese,wine,furniture and Lego when we leave? Our fishermen have to throw dead fish back into the sea because of EU directives, do you think that's OK? Do you think every rapist,murderer, kiddy fiddler or lowlife criminal should be able to move in next door to you without proper checks or should we have an immigration policy similar to Australia whereby they pick exactly who they want to move their? Do you really think that Europe is going to tell all the holiday makers that spend millions of pounds in their countries that they're no longer welcome to come? I'm not sure why so many people think that Europe loves us and wants us to stay as you only have to look at foreign news (and even Eurovision) to see what they really think of us and the only reason the EU are making it so hard for us to leave amicably is to put off the other richer countries in Europe from doing the same. The 'fuck off' comment was also made in the same vein as the ones who tell people who don't like Fab to 'do one and mind the door doesn't slam them in the arse on the way out' but if you want to see it your way then feel free to do so...Me, I'll just carry on being me and do my best to make things work out without spitting the dummy out when I don't get my own way. After all, I've had many years of practice after being shafted by every government that's been in power since I left school and I can't help but have a wry smile at finally being able stick two fingers up at the powers that be. " And the last sentence shows why you voted Brexit. Your anger I understand but sadly you've blamed the wrong target and now you're only going to get shafted more as a result. Those "men of the people" Bojo and JRM have got your back right? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" And the last sentence shows why you voted Brexit. Your anger I understand but sadly you've blamed the wrong target and now you're only going to get shafted more as a result. Those "men of the people" Bojo and JRM have got your back right?" Who's angry? I've been sat here with a smile while joining in the debate and I think you'll find that nowhere have I mentioned any politician 'having my back' unless it's to stick any of their pointy knives directly into it. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If they did do a second referendum I hope it be a no deal Brexit and trade on WTO rules on the paper so when leave win again it stop people moaning That sounds a bit too clever for all of us leavers to understand as the majority of the remainers posts on this thread either imply or downright accuse us of being 'stupid' or 'brainless'. Whether it was right or wrong to put the vote to the public, that's what they did and democracy will be the only loser if we have another referendum. If all you remainers think life is so great being in Europe, here's an idea for you...Fuck off to a foreign country where life's better and leave us to rot with our xenophobic/racist/stupid/brainless (delete as appropriate) countrymen. Ok, so let me get this straight. You are saying that those people who don’t feel that same as you and are using their democratic right to voice their opinion and vote and hold out government to account on their actions, should fuck off and leave the country? Our country. Do you have any more right to be here than I do? Are you more ‘British’ than I am just because you think our best chance of success in this world is to pull up the drawbridge? And I think our best chance is to work closer with our neighbours and have a more inclusive and diverse society? You seem to think that just because of that I might want to live elsewhere? Why is that? I, personally, don’t. I want to live in the UK. Is that a problem for you? Just because I think we are a stronger nation as a part of the EU than outside it? Because I think that this excercise is going to be a very expensive mistake? This is the thing that I REALLY hate about the whole Brexit process, is that is has given people like you the false impression they have the right to tell other British citizens to fuck off. -Matt Oooh!!! People like me eh? People who voted with our heads (as I'm far from being a pushover to anybodies rhetoric if I don't believe in the cause) as opposed to people like you who can't accept that the democratic process has happened. We can trade under WTO rules and in a lot of cases things will be cheaper as we don't have to accept the cartel reasoning behind the EU directives. We import far more than we export so do you really think the EU will stop trying to sell us all their cars,cheese,wine,furniture and Lego when we leave? Our fishermen have to throw dead fish back into the sea because of EU directives, do you think that's OK? Do you think every rapist,murderer, kiddy fiddler or lowlife criminal should be able to move in next door to you without proper checks or should we have an immigration policy similar to Australia whereby they pick exactly who they want to move their? Do you really think that Europe is going to tell all the holiday makers that spend millions of pounds in their countries that they're no longer welcome to come? I'm not sure why so many people think that Europe loves us and wants us to stay as you only have to look at foreign news (and even Eurovision) to see what they really think of us and the only reason the EU are making it so hard for us to leave amicably is to put off the other richer countries in Europe from doing the same. The 'fuck off' comment was also made in the same vein as the ones who tell people who don't like Fab to 'do one and mind the door doesn't slam them in the arse on the way out' but if you want to see it your way then feel free to do so...Me, I'll just carry on being me and do my best to make things work out without spitting the dummy out when I don't get my own way. After all, I've had many years of practice after being shafted by every government that's been in power since I left school and I can't help but have a wry smile at finally being able stick two fingers up at the powers that be. " very well put. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Another referendum sets a very dangerous constitutional precedence. We had a referendum and the result was clear, close but one side got a majority. We can’t have the situation where if we are not happy with the result we call for another. This undermines our constitution and would impact on our judicial system. Not happy with the guilty verdict in a trial? Let’s have a retrial at taxpayers expense. That is a very real possibility and one that should be avoided at all costs. Retrials happen all the time when new evidence comes to light.... That process doesn’t undermine our constitution though." The referendum itself has already undermined our Constitution. According to our constitution members of parliament are legally bound to vote for what they believe to be in the best interests of the country and their constituents. In making their descions they may take many things into consideration and seek advice from any they choose. However they are not ment to take direction from outside parliament. By treating the referendum as binding, as opposed to advisory, and voting through future legislation which they personally do not believe to be in the best interests of the country and their constituents, they are taking direction from outside of parliament. And that is the real danger to our Constitution. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"But the last vote was a second vote, the first took place on the 5th June 1975. The first vote you speak of was to join a very different organisation than the one that people voted to leave. " No, the first referendum in 1975 was not whether to join the EU/EC/EEC, we did that in 1973, two years before (or even 1960 if, as some leavers claim being in EFTA is being in the EU in all but name, 15 years before). In the first referendum in 1975 the choice was the same as in the second referendum in 2016; leave {33%} or remain {67%} It's also untrue to say that the EEC we joined in 1973 and voted to remain in in 1975 was a very different organizations than the EU now. It was called a Common Market and the WTO definition of a common market is:- A common market (as opposed to a free trade area) has a common external tariff and allows for labour mobility and common economic policies among the participating nations. The common market has the same features as a customs union, but, in addition, factors of production (labour, capital and technology) are mobile among members. Restrictions on immigration and cross-border investment are abolished. That is what we joined in 1973, what we voted for overwhelming in 1975 and exactly what we have now. It's simply yet another BREXIT lie to say otherwise. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"But the last vote was a second vote, the first took place on the 5th June 1975. The first vote you speak of was to join a very different organisation than the one that people voted to leave. Absolutely, and I would still vote leave ." But the organisation (EU) is exactly what we voted to remain in in the first referendum in 1975; a Common Market. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"But the last vote was a second vote, the first took place on the 5th June 1975. The first vote you speak of was to join a very different organisation than the one that people voted to leave. No, the first referendum in 1975 was not whether to join the EU/EC/EEC, we did that in 1973, two years before (or even 1960 if, as some leavers claim being in EFTA is being in the EU in all but name, 15 years before). In the first referendum in 1975 the choice was the same as in the second referendum in 2016; leave {33%} or remain {67%} It's also untrue to say that the EEC we joined in 1973 and voted to remain in in 1975 was a very different organizations than the EU now. It was called a Common Market and the WTO definition of a common market is:- A common market (as opposed to a free trade area) has a common external tariff and allows for labour mobility and common economic policies among the participating nations. The common market has the same features as a customs union, but, in addition, factors of production (labour, capital and technology) are mobile among members. Restrictions on immigration and cross-border investment are abolished. That is what we joined in 1973, what we voted for overwhelming in 1975 and exactly what we have now. It's simply yet another BREXIT lie to say otherwise. " And we voted leave in 2916, I just wish they would get on with it and get us the fuck out. Then and only then we will know the true effect of our independence. It’s gonna be great! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Voted leave and would still vote to leave again , how can the politicians in europe ditact laws to us when we dont vote them in? I thought the original idea was to trade with them not have your identity and powers slowly eroded until you have no voice. Frank WE originally signed up to join the ECM (European Common Market) for the free movement of goods not the EU we have today all the other crap about laws movement of people etc. came in via the back door as the EU tries to take over all by stealth tactics." That's just simply not true as I've already pointed out but, just for you, here is the definition of a Common Market. " A common market (as opposed to a free trade area) has a common external tariff and allows for labour mobility and common economic policies among the participating nations. The common market has the same features as a customs union, but, in addition, factors of production (labour, capital and technology) are mobile among members. Restrictions on immigration and cross-border investment are abolished. " ALL the other, so called, crap was there in 1973 when we joined and in 1975 when we had the first referendum. When will BREXITERS stop lying? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Nothing to do with op If I have someone blocked can they purposely use forum to contact me, even quoting my comment ?? " They can quote your posts and comment on your posts but they should not try and address you personally. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No doubt followed by a third and a forth if people don't like the results of that one either. I'm in favour of a run of referendums until the national will is clear i.e at least 55% if not 60% in favour of one option or the other. For massive decisions effecting a whole nation's future it only seems fair
You don’t think almost 4% (51.9% to 48.1%) was enough of a difference?
68.85% of voting areas voting to leave
31.15% of voting areas voting to stay
#facts
It’s like saying he only won 2 out of 3, we needs best of 5! If it wasn’t so petty and childish it would be laughable BUT now comments like this really are pathetic. We all had the chance to vote and those that wanted to did, remainers just won’t stop complaining and are clutching at straws.
It’s done
There is no need to ridicule other peoples opinions by attacking them with puerile comments to try and force your point across he is entitled to an opinion.
It's ok Angelina. I know it's a hot topic for some. For me, the reason why I think it's been such a hot topic ever since the result came through is precisely because both sides think it was a fluke. None more so than the brexiteers who, ever since, have been trying to stop any form of democracy taking place, first through trying to deny Parliament a vote, and now with their opposition to a rerun. All because they know it was a fluke but hide that under loud protestations of it being "the will of the people".
What's become apparent, however, is that even if we voted again and the result was remain it would likely only be the same in reverse i.e 52% to stay. This also isn't a mandate. So if we commit to another referendum it should be until a certain benchmark is met. Not until the result we want is obtained.
To answer the poster... No. For me a 4% win isn't enough. Especially when you look closer and find that, had 1% of the population voted for stay instead of leave, the other side would have "won". I don't know what stats you need to twist to come to the thinking that you won by 2 out of 3
Some have pointed out quite rightly we never voted for Europe to govern as much as it has been doing So you could argue that we should have had to have 60% to remain in. That's not an unreasonable way of looking at it and using your 60% ratio it fell short by 14% to remain in.
After all this is the first referendum on should we be in our to of Europe. "No, it's the second referendum we've had on should we be in or out of Europe; the first one was in 1975. And no that wasn't a referendum on whether we should join Europe or not. We joined the EEC in 1973 and EFTA in 1960. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"And not forgetting the the EU have to make this as painful as possible. Not just because they see us as a valuable contributor to the EU, but if it is seen that we could leave and do well outside of Europe, other countries might think it is a good idea... We are fucked in the short term, but long term we will reap the rewards." What rewards are they then? And in what way is the EU making it as painful as possible? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 . Erm let's have best of 3
The remoaners a gift that keeps on giving | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I don’t think another referendum is the answer. We are not Ireland or Greece, and the first independent decision we make must be that we won’t be pushed into taking a crap deal or backtracking on our exit. Personally I favour a no deal exit. Because nothing the EU will offer us will be of any use. Not until after we have left anyhow. Right now we are still EU members, and remoaners are salivating at the thought of the wheels coming off. People who live on this island but genuinely hate it’s people, the looney left. But nothing is going to really happen until we leave. Hopefully all those Brit haters will piss off and enjoy being in the EU somewhere else. " This will never work if you carry on calling the people who voted to remain "remoaners" or "the loony left". I do not want to leave. I voted remain not because of "project fear", but because I like the opportunities that being part of the EU brings. Can we make it work outside the EU, I hope we can. I just think our economic future would be more stable and secure as part of the EU. It is the people who call each other names because of the way they've voted that are splitting this country apart (and if you look on any thread about Brexit that I've posted in, I have never called a Brexiteer any names, or called them stupid - I may challenge and disagree with their views, but that's what a debate is). | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I don’t think another referendum is the answer. We are not Ireland or Greece, and the first independent decision we make must be that we won’t be pushed into taking a crap deal or backtracking on our exit. Personally I favour a no deal exit. Because nothing the EU will offer us will be of any use. Not until after we have left anyhow. Right now we are still EU members, and remoaners are salivating at the thought of the wheels coming off. People who live on this island but genuinely hate it’s people, the looney left. But nothing is going to really happen until we leave. Hopefully all those Brit haters will piss off and enjoy being in the EU somewhere else. This will never work if you carry on calling the people who voted to remain "remoaners" or "the loony left". I do not want to leave. I voted remain not because of "project fear", but because I like the opportunities that being part of the EU brings. Can we make it work outside the EU, I hope we can. I just think our economic future would be more stable and secure as part of the EU. It is the people who call each other names because of the way they've voted that are splitting this country apart (and if you look on any thread about Brexit that I've posted in, I have never called a Brexiteer any names, or called them stupid - I may challenge and disagree with their views, but that's what a debate is)." A refreshing and honest post on Brexit. (At last) | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If we don't leave then I don't get to say "I told you so."" I know but it's fun watching all the brexiters get angry telliing people to fuck off out of the uk and go live in the EU | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It’s as much fun as some loonie remainers branding leavers racists and traitors don’t you think bob " Stop with the name calling. You want it to work? Work together. Understand that people have different views and why they have them. Otherwise this country will drown without a trace. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"But the last vote was a second vote, the first took place on the 5th June 1975. The first vote you speak of was to join a very different organisation than the one that people voted to leave. " It was NOT to join the common market....we had already joined, a decision made by the tory government under Heath, and opposed by Labour. That decision was won with 356 votes, and a majority of 112 votes, in October 1971. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It’s as much fun as some loonie remainers branding leavers racists and traitors don’t you think bob " Nah it's the remainers that get called unpatriotic un British traitors and getvtold to fuck off if you don't like the result .I've never seen a leaver get branded a traitor plenty of times a racist but never a traitor . Oh and forget lefty Marxist communist | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It’s as much fun as some loonie remainers branding leavers racists and traitors don’t you think bob Nah it's the remainers that get called unpatriotic un British traitors and getvtold to fuck off if you don't like the result .I've never seen a leaver get branded a traitor plenty of times a racist but never a traitor . Oh and forget lefty Marxist communist "They are traitors though aren’t they? By default, anyone plotting and encouraging harm to their country is a traitor. We have all now seen the no deal technical notices and this lays bare the risk of catastrophe and yet Brexiters still champion a no deal exit. Traitors. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I don’t think another referendum is the answer. We are not Ireland or Greece, and the first independent decision we make must be that we won’t be pushed into taking a crap deal or backtracking on our exit. Personally I favour a no deal exit. Because nothing the EU will offer us will be of any use. Not until after we have left anyhow. Right now we are still EU members, and remoaners are salivating at the thought of the wheels coming off. People who live on this island but genuinely hate it’s people, the looney left. But nothing is going to really happen until we leave. Hopefully all those Brit haters will piss off and enjoy being in the EU somewhere else. This will never work if you carry on calling the people who voted to remain "remoaners" or "the loony left". I do not want to leave. I voted remain not because of "project fear", but because I like the opportunities that being part of the EU brings. Can we make it work outside the EU, I hope we can. I just think our economic future would be more stable and secure as part of the EU. It is the people who call each other names because of the way they've voted that are splitting this country apart (and if you look on any thread about Brexit that I've posted in, I have never called a Brexiteer any names, or called them stupid - I may challenge and disagree with their views, but that's what a debate is)." Ok so you might not use some of the language I have read in here, used by remainers to describe leavers. But most of the others do. I have even been accused of being a Nazi and owning a copy of Mein Kamp. I don’t agree with your comments re our EU membership, especially now. Things were bad enough before, with us playing like minor leaguers whilst Germany and France were top of the pile. But can you imagine how we would be treated if we caved in now? It would give them carte blanche to treat us even worse than before. This has gone on for too long without much in the way of results or decisions, but it has gone on long enough for it to be safe to say, there is no way back. Even if we did want to (which we don’t) it is too late to change our minds anyway. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"In the immortal words of Stewart Lee, it's not fair to claim that all brexiteers were racists. Some of them were cunts "im all for having a crack mate but when ppl toss the word racist out Lapland the time it loses its value don’t you think I dint think iv seen many posts of leavers ever saying they want all imagration just slowed down | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"In the immortal words of Stewart Lee, it's not fair to claim that all brexiteers were racists. Some of them were cunts im all for having a crack mate but when ppl toss the word racist out Lapland the time it loses its value don’t you think I dint think iv seen many posts of leavers ever saying they want all imagration just slowed down "I think the problem was that, for many remainers, leaving made absolutely no sense. The argument for the economy was lala land. The argument involving immigration was nonsense as immigration was clearly benefiting us so even after brexit it was pretty clear we'd carry on letting everyone in. And the argument for sovereignty was a straw man, we were already awarded a special position in the EU that exempted us from ever closer union and the only areas where we had already ceded control we'd only done so for our mutual benefit, working together for such things as global warming and security. I'm not trying to pick an argument. I'm just trying to explain that, for many of us, it was a complete no brainer. There literally was no logic on display coming from the leave camp to change our minds even remotely. Given the complete absence of a half decent argument or reason to leave, I guess we all scratched our heads afterwards in search of a plausible reason for why anyone could've voted to leave. Only two options presented themselves at the time; total and utter idiocy, or emotional reaction to talk of mass immigration and pictures of hordes of dark skinned people trying to get into our country. This, I think, is why the idea brexiteers are uneducated racists came from. Backed up by Goves famous remark about ignoring all the experts which brexiteers took to like ducks to water. Now. After the dust has settled. It's clear that the reasons behind voting brexit were far more nuanced and that there is a chasm of misunderstanding between leavers and remainers which seems unbridgable. I honestly don't know how the nation is going to heal that rift. Brexit itself won't heal it imo. Unless it's a clear and immediate success. If not the backlash to it is likely to keep things at boiling point for years to come. UKIP may dissolve. But UKIEP (UK in Europe party) will rise from its ashes and be just as distastefully obnoxious and annoying to you leavers as UKIP was to the rest of us... banging on for years and years and years and fucking years moaning and whinging in exactly the way leavers did for decades prior to 2016 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"In the immortal words of Stewart Lee, it's not fair to claim that all brexiteers were racists. Some of them were cunts im all for having a crack mate but when ppl toss the word racist out Lapland the time it loses its value don’t you think I dint think iv seen many posts of leavers ever saying they want all imagration just slowed down
I think the problem was that, for many remainers, leaving made absolutely no sense. The argument for the economy was lala land. The argument involving immigration was nonsense as immigration was clearly benefiting us so even after brexit it was pretty clear we'd carry on letting everyone in. And the argument for sovereignty was a straw man, we were already awarded a special position in the EU that exempted us from ever closer union and the only areas where we had already ceded control we'd only done so for our mutual benefit, working together for such things as global warming and security.
I'm not trying to pick an argument. I'm just trying to explain that, for many of us, it was a complete no brainer. There literally was no logic on display coming from the leave camp to change our minds even remotely.
Given the complete absence of a half decent argument or reason to leave, I guess we all scratched our heads afterwards in search of a plausible reason for why anyone could've voted to leave. Only two options presented themselves at the time; total and utter idiocy, or emotional reaction to talk of mass immigration and pictures of hordes of dark skinned people trying to get into our country. This, I think, is why the idea brexiteers are uneducated racists came from. Backed up by Goves famous remark about ignoring all the experts which brexiteers took to like ducks to water.
Now. After the dust has settled. It's clear that the reasons behind voting brexit were far more nuanced and that there is a chasm of misunderstanding between leavers and remainers which seems unbridgable.
I honestly don't know how the nation is going to heal that rift. Brexit itself won't heal it imo. Unless it's a clear and immediate success. If not the backlash to it is likely to keep things at boiling point for years to come. UKIP may dissolve. But UKIEP (UK in Europe party) will rise from its ashes and be just as distastefully obnoxious and annoying to you leavers as UKIP was to the rest of us... banging on for years and years and years and fucking years moaning and whinging in exactly the way leavers did for decades prior to 2016 ". That’s the biggest load of bollox i,ve ever heard on here and i,ve been here for 5 yrs | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"In the immortal words of Stewart Lee, it's not fair to claim that all brexiteers were racists. Some of them were cunts im all for having a crack mate but when ppl toss the word racist out Lapland the time it loses its value don’t you think I dint think iv seen many posts of leavers ever saying they want all imagration just slowed down
I think the problem was that, for many remainers, leaving made absolutely no sense. The argument for the economy was lala land. The argument involving immigration was nonsense as immigration was clearly benefiting us so even after brexit it was pretty clear we'd carry on letting everyone in. And the argument for sovereignty was a straw man, we were already awarded a special position in the EU that exempted us from ever closer union and the only areas where we had already ceded control we'd only done so for our mutual benefit, working together for such things as global warming and security.
I'm not trying to pick an argument. I'm just trying to explain that, for many of us, it was a complete no brainer. There literally was no logic on display coming from the leave camp to change our minds even remotely.
Given the complete absence of a half decent argument or reason to leave, I guess we all scratched our heads afterwards in search of a plausible reason for why anyone could've voted to leave. Only two options presented themselves at the time; total and utter idiocy, or emotional reaction to talk of mass immigration and pictures of hordes of dark skinned people trying to get into our country. This, I think, is why the idea brexiteers are uneducated racists came from. Backed up by Goves famous remark about ignoring all the experts which brexiteers took to like ducks to water.
Now. After the dust has settled. It's clear that the reasons behind voting brexit were far more nuanced and that there is a chasm of misunderstanding between leavers and remainers which seems unbridgable.
I honestly don't know how the nation is going to heal that rift. Brexit itself won't heal it imo. Unless it's a clear and immediate success. If not the backlash to it is likely to keep things at boiling point for years to come. UKIP may dissolve. But UKIEP (UK in Europe party) will rise from its ashes and be just as distastefully obnoxious and annoying to you leavers as UKIP was to the rest of us... banging on for years and years and years and fucking years moaning and whinging in exactly the way leavers did for decades prior to 2016 "In very simple terms ,( and I will put it in such a way that the majority of leavers feel including myself j , we were pissed off with piling billions into an unelected group of Europeans who sat in Brussels changing our constitution , our laws , and squandering those billions on pen pushing bureaucrats , again unelected , who sat in offices with nothing better to do than waste our money on all manner of ridiculous law changes to create European harmony . For me , and all of my friends who voted leave , it’s got nothing to do with immigration . It’s to do with spending our money in a way that will benefit us far more than the way the EU has . | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"In the immortal words of Stewart Lee, it's not fair to claim that all brexiteers were racists. Some of them were cunts im all for having a crack mate but when ppl toss the word racist out Lapland the time it loses its value don’t you think I dint think iv seen many posts of leavers ever saying they want all imagration just slowed down
I think the problem was that, for many remainers, leaving made absolutely no sense. The argument for the economy was lala land. The argument involving immigration was nonsense as immigration was clearly benefiting us so even after brexit it was pretty clear we'd carry on letting everyone in. And the argument for sovereignty was a straw man, we were already awarded a special position in the EU that exempted us from ever closer union and the only areas where we had already ceded control we'd only done so for our mutual benefit, working together for such things as global warming and security.
I'm not trying to pick an argument. I'm just trying to explain that, for many of us, it was a complete no brainer. There literally was no logic on display coming from the leave camp to change our minds even remotely.
Given the complete absence of a half decent argument or reason to leave, I guess we all scratched our heads afterwards in search of a plausible reason for why anyone could've voted to leave. Only two options presented themselves at the time; total and utter idiocy, or emotional reaction to talk of mass immigration and pictures of hordes of dark skinned people trying to get into our country. This, I think, is why the idea brexiteers are uneducated racists came from. Backed up by Goves famous remark about ignoring all the experts which brexiteers took to like ducks to water.
Now. After the dust has settled. It's clear that the reasons behind voting brexit were far more nuanced and that there is a chasm of misunderstanding between leavers and remainers which seems unbridgable.
I honestly don't know how the nation is going to heal that rift. Brexit itself won't heal it imo. Unless it's a clear and immediate success. If not the backlash to it is likely to keep things at boiling point for years to come. UKIP may dissolve. But UKIEP (UK in Europe party) will rise from its ashes and be just as distastefully obnoxious and annoying to you leavers as UKIP was to the rest of us... banging on for years and years and years and fucking years moaning and whinging in exactly the way leavers did for decades prior to 2016 "Pretty much spot on .Brexit will solve nothing .In fact brexit is just the opening salvo of little Britain .Things are only getting started .The backlash has yet to happen .This division will go on for a generation or more .The brexiters have picked a fight they won't win .Good times ahead | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"In the immortal words of Stewart Lee, it's not fair to claim that all brexiteers were racists. Some of them were cunts im all for having a crack mate but when ppl toss the word racist out Lapland the time it loses its value don’t you think I dint think iv seen many posts of leavers ever saying they want all imagration just slowed down
I think the problem was that, for many remainers, leaving made absolutely no sense. The argument for the economy was lala land. The argument involving immigration was nonsense as immigration was clearly benefiting us so even after brexit it was pretty clear we'd carry on letting everyone in. And the argument for sovereignty was a straw man, we were already awarded a special position in the EU that exempted us from ever closer union and the only areas where we had already ceded control we'd only done so for our mutual benefit, working together for such things as global warming and security.
I'm not trying to pick an argument. I'm just trying to explain that, for many of us, it was a complete no brainer. There literally was no logic on display coming from the leave camp to change our minds even remotely.
Given the complete absence of a half decent argument or reason to leave, I guess we all scratched our heads afterwards in search of a plausible reason for why anyone could've voted to leave. Only two options presented themselves at the time; total and utter idiocy, or emotional reaction to talk of mass immigration and pictures of hordes of dark skinned people trying to get into our country. This, I think, is why the idea brexiteers are uneducated racists came from. Backed up by Goves famous remark about ignoring all the experts which brexiteers took to like ducks to water.
Now. After the dust has settled. It's clear that the reasons behind voting brexit were far more nuanced and that there is a chasm of misunderstanding between leavers and remainers which seems unbridgable.
I honestly don't know how the nation is going to heal that rift. Brexit itself won't heal it imo. Unless it's a clear and immediate success. If not the backlash to it is likely to keep things at boiling point for years to come. UKIP may dissolve. But UKIEP (UK in Europe party) will rise from its ashes and be just as distastefully obnoxious and annoying to you leavers as UKIP was to the rest of us... banging on for years and years and years and fucking years moaning and whinging in exactly the way leavers did for decades prior to 2016
In very simple terms ,( and I will put it in such a way that the majority of leavers feel including myself j , we were pissed off with piling billions into an unelected group of Europeans who sat in Brussels changing our constitution , our laws , and squandering those billions on pen pushing bureaucrats , again unelected , who sat in offices with nothing better to do than waste our money on all manner of ridiculous law changes to create European harmony .
For me , and all of my friends who voted leave , it’s got nothing to do with immigration . It’s to do with spending our money in a way that will benefit us far more than the way the EU has ."They are elected. We vote for MEP's. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"In the immortal words of Stewart Lee, it's not fair to claim that all brexiteers were racists. Some of them were cunts im all for having a crack mate but when ppl toss the word racist out Lapland the time it loses its value don’t you think I dint think iv seen many posts of leavers ever saying they want all imagration just slowed down
I think the problem was that, for many remainers, leaving made absolutely no sense. The argument for the economy was lala land. The argument involving immigration was nonsense as immigration was clearly benefiting us so even after brexit it was pretty clear we'd carry on letting everyone in. And the argument for sovereignty was a straw man, we were already awarded a special position in the EU that exempted us from ever closer union and the only areas where we had already ceded control we'd only done so for our mutual benefit, working together for such things as global warming and security.
I'm not trying to pick an argument. I'm just trying to explain that, for many of us, it was a complete no brainer. There literally was no logic on display coming from the leave camp to change our minds even remotely.
Given the complete absence of a half decent argument or reason to leave, I guess we all scratched our heads afterwards in search of a plausible reason for why anyone could've voted to leave. Only two options presented themselves at the time; total and utter idiocy, or emotional reaction to talk of mass immigration and pictures of hordes of dark skinned people trying to get into our country. This, I think, is why the idea brexiteers are uneducated racists came from. Backed up by Goves famous remark about ignoring all the experts which brexiteers took to like ducks to water.
Now. After the dust has settled. It's clear that the reasons behind voting brexit were far more nuanced and that there is a chasm of misunderstanding between leavers and remainers which seems unbridgable.
I honestly don't know how the nation is going to heal that rift. Brexit itself won't heal it imo. Unless it's a clear and immediate success. If not the backlash to it is likely to keep things at boiling point for years to come. UKIP may dissolve. But UKIEP (UK in Europe party) will rise from its ashes and be just as distastefully obnoxious and annoying to you leavers as UKIP was to the rest of us... banging on for years and years and years and fucking years moaning and whinging in exactly the way leavers did for decades prior to 2016 . That’s the biggest load of bollox i,ve ever heard on here and i,ve been here for 5 yrs "Really? I thought it was well thought out out, reasoned and had a degree of multi dimensional thought processes involved. Hardly surprising that some Brexiters on here would not be able to take it on board. The reality is that the referendum was a narrow Leave margin. It could just as easily have been a narrow remain margin. Any second referendum could equally be narrow. The way that the narrow result is being interpreted WILL damage this country for years. There is no will if the people and there is no mandate to cut all ties and crucify the economy for years. There is a mandate to leave the EU and remain in EU bodies (EEA, SM, CU - or a hybrid). This will satisfy the Leave vote and satisfy the remain margin and enable the U.K. to drift further or re-engage in years to come. That is the only mandate that the referendum gave and which could potentially carry the country united with only Brextrenists and extreme remainers being unhappy. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"In the immortal words of Stewart Lee, it's not fair to claim that all brexiteers were racists. Some of them were cunts im all for having a crack mate but when ppl toss the word racist out Lapland the time it loses its value don’t you think I dint think iv seen many posts of leavers ever saying they want all imagration just slowed down
I think the problem was that, for many remainers, leaving made absolutely no sense. The argument for the economy was lala land. The argument involving immigration was nonsense as immigration was clearly benefiting us so even after brexit it was pretty clear we'd carry on letting everyone in. And the argument for sovereignty was a straw man, we were already awarded a special position in the EU that exempted us from ever closer union and the only areas where we had already ceded control we'd only done so for our mutual benefit, working together for such things as global warming and security.
I'm not trying to pick an argument. I'm just trying to explain that, for many of us, it was a complete no brainer. There literally was no logic on display coming from the leave camp to change our minds even remotely.
Given the complete absence of a half decent argument or reason to leave, I guess we all scratched our heads afterwards in search of a plausible reason for why anyone could've voted to leave. Only two options presented themselves at the time; total and utter idiocy, or emotional reaction to talk of mass immigration and pictures of hordes of dark skinned people trying to get into our country. This, I think, is why the idea brexiteers are uneducated racists came from. Backed up by Goves famous remark about ignoring all the experts which brexiteers took to like ducks to water.
Now. After the dust has settled. It's clear that the reasons behind voting brexit were far more nuanced and that there is a chasm of misunderstanding between leavers and remainers which seems unbridgable.
I honestly don't know how the nation is going to heal that rift. Brexit itself won't heal it imo. Unless it's a clear and immediate success. If not the backlash to it is likely to keep things at boiling point for years to come. UKIP may dissolve. But UKIEP (UK in Europe party) will rise from its ashes and be just as distastefully obnoxious and annoying to you leavers as UKIP was to the rest of us... banging on for years and years and years and fucking years moaning and whinging in exactly the way leavers did for decades prior to 2016
In very simple terms ,( and I will put it in such a way that the majority of leavers feel including myself j , we were pissed off with piling billions into an unelected group of Europeans who sat in Brussels changing our constitution , our laws , and squandering those billions on pen pushing bureaucrats , again unelected , who sat in offices with nothing better to do than waste our money on all manner of ridiculous law changes to create European harmony .
For me , and all of my friends who voted leave , it’s got nothing to do with immigration . It’s to do with spending our money in a way that will benefit us far more than the way the EU has .
They are elected. We vote for MEP's."Glos is right on two fronts though... firstly there was a logic to the leave camp which has emerged more since the referendum, not a convincing one imo, but something beyond mere ignorance and racism nonetheless. And secondly, that people were squandering EU money making it look like a complete farce. Unfortunately.... we voted for these people... they were our UKIP MEPs who squande_ed our place at the table on flushing EU money down the loo and ridiculing the whole thing. Well done everyone for doing that to the UK
Just goes to show there's a precedent for rabid brexiteers undermining the UK and shooting it in the foot You can't blame some for labelling them traitors. They did literally sabotage the UKs standing in Europe by continually voting agitators in as MEPs | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"In the immortal words of Stewart Lee, it's not fair to claim that all brexiteers were racists. Some of them were cunts im all for having a crack mate but when ppl toss the word racist out Lapland the time it loses its value don’t you think I dint think iv seen many posts of leavers ever saying they want all imagration just slowed down
I think the problem was that, for many remainers, leaving made absolutely no sense. The argument for the economy was lala land. The argument involving immigration was nonsense as immigration was clearly benefiting us so even after brexit it was pretty clear we'd carry on letting everyone in. And the argument for sovereignty was a straw man, we were already awarded a special position in the EU that exempted us from ever closer union and the only areas where we had already ceded control we'd only done so for our mutual benefit, working together for such things as global warming and security.
I'm not trying to pick an argument. I'm just trying to explain that, for many of us, it was a complete no brainer. There literally was no logic on display coming from the leave camp to change our minds even remotely.
Given the complete absence of a half decent argument or reason to leave, I guess we all scratched our heads afterwards in search of a plausible reason for why anyone could've voted to leave. Only two options presented themselves at the time; total and utter idiocy, or emotional reaction to talk of mass immigration and pictures of hordes of dark skinned people trying to get into our country. This, I think, is why the idea brexiteers are uneducated racists came from. Backed up by Goves famous remark about ignoring all the experts which brexiteers took to like ducks to water.
Now. After the dust has settled. It's clear that the reasons behind voting brexit were far more nuanced and that there is a chasm of misunderstanding between leavers and remainers which seems unbridgable.
I honestly don't know how the nation is going to heal that rift. Brexit itself won't heal it imo. Unless it's a clear and immediate success. If not the backlash to it is likely to keep things at boiling point for years to come. UKIP may dissolve. But UKIEP (UK in Europe party) will rise from its ashes and be just as distastefully obnoxious and annoying to you leavers as UKIP was to the rest of us... banging on for years and years and years and fucking years moaning and whinging in exactly the way leavers did for decades prior to 2016
In very simple terms ,( and I will put it in such a way that the majority of leavers feel including myself j , we were pissed off with piling billions into an unelected group of Europeans who sat in Brussels changing our constitution , our laws , and squandering those billions on pen pushing bureaucrats , again unelected , who sat in offices with nothing better to do than waste our money on all manner of ridiculous law changes to create European harmony .
For me , and all of my friends who voted leave , it’s got nothing to do with immigration . It’s to do with spending our money in a way that will benefit us far more than the way the EU has .
They are elected. We vote for MEP's."Well to be fair , about a third of us voted . | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"In the immortal words of Stewart Lee, it's not fair to claim that all brexiteers were racists. Some of them were cunts im all for having a crack mate but when ppl toss the word racist out Lapland the time it loses its value don’t you think I dint think iv seen many posts of leavers ever saying they want all imagration just slowed down
I think the problem was that, for many remainers, leaving made absolutely no sense. The argument for the economy was lala land. The argument involving immigration was nonsense as immigration was clearly benefiting us so even after brexit it was pretty clear we'd carry on letting everyone in. And the argument for sovereignty was a straw man, we were already awarded a special position in the EU that exempted us from ever closer union and the only areas where we had already ceded control we'd only done so for our mutual benefit, working together for such things as global warming and security.
I'm not trying to pick an argument. I'm just trying to explain that, for many of us, it was a complete no brainer. There literally was no logic on display coming from the leave camp to change our minds even remotely.
Given the complete absence of a half decent argument or reason to leave, I guess we all scratched our heads afterwards in search of a plausible reason for why anyone could've voted to leave. Only two options presented themselves at the time; total and utter idiocy, or emotional reaction to talk of mass immigration and pictures of hordes of dark skinned people trying to get into our country. This, I think, is why the idea brexiteers are uneducated racists came from. Backed up by Goves famous remark about ignoring all the experts which brexiteers took to like ducks to water.
Now. After the dust has settled. It's clear that the reasons behind voting brexit were far more nuanced and that there is a chasm of misunderstanding between leavers and remainers which seems unbridgable.
I honestly don't know how the nation is going to heal that rift. Brexit itself won't heal it imo. Unless it's a clear and immediate success. If not the backlash to it is likely to keep things at boiling point for years to come. UKIP may dissolve. But UKIEP (UK in Europe party) will rise from its ashes and be just as distastefully obnoxious and annoying to you leavers as UKIP was to the rest of us... banging on for years and years and years and fucking years moaning and whinging in exactly the way leavers did for decades prior to 2016
In very simple terms ,( and I will put it in such a way that the majority of leavers feel including myself j , we were pissed off with piling billions into an unelected group of Europeans who sat in Brussels changing our constitution , our laws , and squandering those billions on pen pushing bureaucrats , again unelected , who sat in offices with nothing better to do than waste our money on all manner of ridiculous law changes to create European harmony .
For me , and all of my friends who voted leave , it’s got nothing to do with immigration . It’s to do with spending our money in a way that will benefit us far more than the way the EU has .
They are elected. We vote for MEP's.
Well to be fair , about a third of us voted ."Not my fault the turnout is low, they are still democratically elected officials who create and pass the laws. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"In the immortal words of Stewart Lee, it's not fair to claim that all brexiteers were racists. Some of them were cunts im all for having a crack mate but when ppl toss the word racist out Lapland the time it loses its value don’t you think I dint think iv seen many posts of leavers ever saying they want all imagration just slowed down
I think the problem was that, for many remainers, leaving made absolutely no sense. The argument for the economy was lala land. The argument involving immigration was nonsense as immigration was clearly benefiting us so even after brexit it was pretty clear we'd carry on letting everyone in. And the argument for sovereignty was a straw man, we were already awarded a special position in the EU that exempted us from ever closer union and the only areas where we had already ceded control we'd only done so for our mutual benefit, working together for such things as global warming and security.
I'm not trying to pick an argument. I'm just trying to explain that, for many of us, it was a complete no brainer. There literally was no logic on display coming from the leave camp to change our minds even remotely.
Given the complete absence of a half decent argument or reason to leave, I guess we all scratched our heads afterwards in search of a plausible reason for why anyone could've voted to leave. Only two options presented themselves at the time; total and utter idiocy, or emotional reaction to talk of mass immigration and pictures of hordes of dark skinned people trying to get into our country. This, I think, is why the idea brexiteers are uneducated racists came from. Backed up by Goves famous remark about ignoring all the experts which brexiteers took to like ducks to water.
Now. After the dust has settled. It's clear that the reasons behind voting brexit were far more nuanced and that there is a chasm of misunderstanding between leavers and remainers which seems unbridgable.
I honestly don't know how the nation is going to heal that rift. Brexit itself won't heal it imo. Unless it's a clear and immediate success. If not the backlash to it is likely to keep things at boiling point for years to come. UKIP may dissolve. But UKIEP (UK in Europe party) will rise from its ashes and be just as distastefully obnoxious and annoying to you leavers as UKIP was to the rest of us... banging on for years and years and years and fucking years moaning and whinging in exactly the way leavers did for decades prior to 2016
In very simple terms ,( and I will put it in such a way that the majority of leavers feel including myself j , we were pissed off with piling billions into an unelected group of Europeans who sat in Brussels changing our constitution , our laws , and squandering those billions on pen pushing bureaucrats , again unelected , who sat in offices with nothing better to do than waste our money on all manner of ridiculous law changes to create European harmony .
For me , and all of my friends who voted leave , it’s got nothing to do with immigration . It’s to do with spending our money in a way that will benefit us far more than the way the EU has .
They are elected. We vote for MEP's.
Well to be fair , about a third of us voted .
Not my fault the turnout is low, they are still democratically elected officials who create and pass the laws."Just as it’s not my fault that we had a referendum and that was a democratically sound way for us to decide to leave the EU  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Post new Message to Thread |
| back to top |  |
