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"I like many I suspect didnt give much thought to the irish border when voting in the ref. It seems to me that the EU and Irish gov are blowing the issues out of all perspective. Ag imports count for a large percent of imports from Ireland but are easily traceable and dont need a border to check what is being traded,the tariffs on most other products are not huge so the UK could just let imports in withut the need for border checks as for people just let them come and go but with the proviso that chackes could be carried out at any time in the North. Anyone crossing the Irish sea needs to show ID now so any eu or non eu citizens can be stopped at the ferries as non eu citizens would be now if the rules were applied properly, as for goods simple spot checks on the mainland could be carried out with any goods that hadnt paid any tariff due being destroyed, I dont think many importers would take that risk for the low cost of tariffs on most imports, also any NI based transport companies caught hauling goods in without the proper paperwork would have their Operators licence removed. So basically the uk doesnt need a border between us and the south but the south would to comply with eu regs. No doubt there would be some small scale smuggling but that would happen anyway even if a border was imposed on our side. Now some may have reasons why that wont work but I think it could" So now you are saying back to the idea of passport control between NI and the mainland Britain? I thought that was already deemed to be a big no-no by most concerned? -Matt | |||
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"I like many I suspect didnt give much thought to the irish border when voting in the ref. It seems to me that the EU and Irish gov are blowing the issues out of all perspective. Ag imports count for a large percent of imports from Ireland but are easily traceable and dont need a border to check what is being traded,the tariffs on most other products are not huge so the UK could just let imports in withut the need for border checks as for people just let them come and go but with the proviso that chackes could be carried out at any time in the North. Anyone crossing the Irish sea needs to show ID now so any eu or non eu citizens can be stopped at the ferries as non eu citizens would be now if the rules were applied properly, as for goods simple spot checks on the mainland could be carried out with any goods that hadnt paid any tariff due being destroyed, I dont think many importers would take that risk for the low cost of tariffs on most imports, also any NI based transport companies caught hauling goods in without the proper paperwork would have their Operators licence removed. So basically the uk doesnt need a border between us and the south but the south would to comply with eu regs. No doubt there would be some small scale smuggling but that would happen anyway even if a border was imposed on our side. Now some may have reasons why that wont work but I think it could So now you are saying back to the idea of passport control between NI and the mainland Britain? I thought that was already deemed to be a big no-no by most concerned? -Matt" There is already passport/photo ID control between NI and the mainland just the same as there is between the UK and mainland europe, so in reality there would be no difference for uk citizens, non uk ones would be then checked. Do you agree that the south will have to have a border to meet eu regs unless the uk effectively remains in the eu by all but name? | |||
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" So now you are saying back to the idea of passport control between NI and the mainland Britain? I thought that was already deemed to be a big no-no by most concerned? -Matt" The English love a single market and political and monetary union when they are in control of it. They hate it when they are not. | |||
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"I like many I suspect didnt give much thought to the irish border when voting in the ref. It seems to me that the EU and Irish gov are blowing the issues out of all perspective. Ag imports count for a large percent of imports from Ireland but are easily traceable and dont need a border to check what is being traded,the tariffs on most other products are not huge so the UK could just let imports in withut the need for border checks as for people just let them come and go but with the proviso that chackes could be carried out at any time in the North. Anyone crossing the Irish sea needs to show ID now so any eu or non eu citizens can be stopped at the ferries as non eu citizens would be now if the rules were applied properly, as for goods simple spot checks on the mainland could be carried out with any goods that hadnt paid any tariff due being destroyed, I dont think many importers would take that risk for the low cost of tariffs on most imports, also any NI based transport companies caught hauling goods in without the proper paperwork would have their Operators licence removed. So basically the uk doesnt need a border between us and the south but the south would to comply with eu regs. No doubt there would be some small scale smuggling but that would happen anyway even if a border was imposed on our side. Now some may have reasons why that wont work but I think it could So now you are saying back to the idea of passport control between NI and the mainland Britain? I thought that was already deemed to be a big no-no by most concerned? -Matt There is already passport/photo ID control between NI and the mainland just the same as there is between the UK and mainland europe, so in reality there would be no difference for uk citizens, non uk ones would be then checked. Do you agree that the south will have to have a border to meet eu regs unless the uk effectively remains in the eu by all but name?" You might have airlines require photo id, but there is no passport check between NI and the UK. You do not need a passport to travel between the two. That is the point. In requiring a passport between NI and UK there is implication that NI is not an equal part of the UK. -Matt | |||
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"We will have to reintroduce a proper border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, otherwise what would all this have been for? If an immigrant to the EU can simply walk into the UK via Ireland, then we have gained control of our borders for nothing. Sure the over dramatic lovies on the left will make this out to be the end of the world. In truth it will be a bit of a pain for some who travel regularly between the two. Those spouting paranoiac bull about a return to the “troubles,” need their bumps feeling. Besides all that, we can take the border away again when ROI leave the EU as well, "Ireland isn't leaving the EU any time soon. I'd say the chances of NI voting to join The Irish Republic are many times higher | |||
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"I think that people have forgotten that before we joined the Common Market and before the Troubles, for practical purposes, the border existed in name only.........it worked. Just saying...... " That's not true. The border existed as a series of customs posts | |||
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"We will have to reintroduce a proper border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, otherwise what would all this have been for? If an immigrant to the EU can simply walk into the UK via Ireland, then we have gained control of our borders for nothing. Sure the over dramatic lovies on the left will make this out to be the end of the world. In truth it will be a bit of a pain for some who travel regularly between the two. Those spouting paranoiac bull about a return to the “troubles,” need their bumps feeling. Besides all that, we can take the border away again when ROI leave the EU as well, "ROI is not going to leave the eu , But if there is a hard brexit there you will see northern Ireland leave the uk  | |||
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"We will have to reintroduce a proper border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, otherwise what would all this have been for? If an immigrant to the EU can simply walk into the UK via Ireland, then we have gained control of our borders for nothing. Sure the over dramatic lovies on the left will make this out to be the end of the world. In truth it will be a bit of a pain for some who travel regularly between the two. Those spouting paranoiac bull about a return to the “troubles,” need their bumps feeling. Besides all that, we can take the border away again when ROI leave the EU as well, "So you are advocating breaking the terms of the good Friday agreement which has been the backbone of peace in Northern Ireland for the last 20 years to achieve your brexit dream... That is awfully selfish... but I am glad a leaver finally admitting it | |||
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"We will have to reintroduce a proper border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, otherwise what would all this have been for? If an immigrant to the EU can simply walk into the UK via Ireland, then we have gained control of our borders for nothing. Sure the over dramatic lovies on the left will make this out to be the end of the world. In truth it will be a bit of a pain for some who travel regularly between the two. Those spouting paranoiac bull about a return to the “troubles,” need their bumps feeling. Besides all that, we can take the border away again when ROI leave the EU as well,
So you are advocating breaking the terms of the good Friday agreement which has been the backbone of peace in Northern Ireland for the last 20 years to achieve your brexit dream...
That is awfully selfish... but I am glad a leaver finally admitting it"Every agreement is open to change and as Ive suggested it isnt the uk that HAS to put border controls in place, with modern tech we probably dont need to, yes there will be some smuggling but that would happen anyway if there are savings to be made that outweigh the risk border or not. IMVHO its just a remain tactic to try and stop brexit and in many ways is giving those who wish to use violence an excuse | |||
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"I like many I suspect didnt give much thought to the irish border when voting in the ref. It seems to me that the EU and Irish gov are blowing the issues out of all perspective. Ag imports count for a large percent of imports from Ireland but are easily traceable and dont need a border to check what is being traded,the tariffs on most other products are not huge so the UK could just let imports in withut the need for border checks as for people just let them come and go but with the proviso that chackes could be carried out at any time in the North. Anyone crossing the Irish sea needs to show ID now so any eu or non eu citizens can be stopped at the ferries as non eu citizens would be now if the rules were applied properly, as for goods simple spot checks on the mainland could be carried out with any goods that hadnt paid any tariff due being destroyed, I dont think many importers would take that risk for the low cost of tariffs on most imports, also any NI based transport companies caught hauling goods in without the proper paperwork would have their Operators licence removed. So basically the uk doesnt need a border between us and the south but the south would to comply with eu regs. No doubt there would be some small scale smuggling but that would happen anyway even if a border was imposed on our side. Now some may have reasons why that wont work but I think it could So now you are saying back to the idea of passport control between NI and the mainland Britain? I thought that was already deemed to be a big no-no by most concerned? -Matt There is already passport/photo ID control between NI and the mainland just the same as there is between the UK and mainland europe, so in reality there would be no difference for uk citizens, non uk ones would be then checked. Do you agree that the south will have to have a border to meet eu regs unless the uk effectively remains in the eu by all but name? You might have airlines require photo id, but there is no passport check between NI and the UK. You do not need a passport to travel between the two. That is the point. In requiring a passport between NI and UK there is implication that NI is not an equal part of the UK. -Matt" I didnt say there was a passport check, Irish ferries tell you to carry ID, I know things could have changed since the last time I used a ferry but needed to show mine then. Its only foot passengers that would be able to get through in any case as vehicle regs would tell where the vehicle came from and a register of all hire vehicles would catch any using hire cars etc. Would some get through if it wasnt a full check on everyone possibly but of course as ireland is an island that will give us protection from non eu migrants to a degree. Is it perfect? No but I again ask the question,will the Irish gov will have to have a hard border to meet eu rules YES or NO | |||
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"We will have to reintroduce a proper border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, otherwise what would all this have been for? If an immigrant to the EU can simply walk into the UK via Ireland, then we have gained control of our borders for nothing. Sure the over dramatic lovies on the left will make this out to be the end of the world. In truth it will be a bit of a pain for some who travel regularly between the two. Those spouting paranoiac bull about a return to the “troubles,” need their bumps feeling. Besides all that, we can take the border away again when ROI leave the EU as well,
So you are advocating breaking the terms of the good Friday agreement which has been the backbone of peace in Northern Ireland for the last 20 years to achieve your brexit dream...
That is awfully selfish... but I am glad a leaver finally admitting it
Every agreement is open to change and as Ive suggested it isnt the uk that HAS to put border controls in place, with modern tech we probably dont need to, yes there will be some smuggling but that would happen anyway if there are savings to be made that outweigh the risk border or not.
IMVHO its just a remain tactic to try and stop brexit and in many ways is giving those who wish to use violence an excuse"There was a study a year or so ago by Grant Thornton, that said that smuggling cost the Irish exchequer 800 Million Euros and Irish business 1.6 Billion Euros a year. Even cattle has been smuggled backwards and forwards to exploit EU payments and subsidies! | |||
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"We will have to reintroduce a proper border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, otherwise what would all this have been for? If an immigrant to the EU can simply walk into the UK via Ireland, then we have gained control of our borders for nothing. Sure the over dramatic lovies on the left will make this out to be the end of the world. In truth it will be a bit of a pain for some who travel regularly between the two. Those spouting paranoiac bull about a return to the “troubles,” need their bumps feeling. Besides all that, we can take the border away again when ROI leave the EU as well,
So you are advocating breaking the terms of the good Friday agreement which has been the backbone of peace in Northern Ireland for the last 20 years to achieve your brexit dream...
That is awfully selfish... but I am glad a leaver finally admitting it
Every agreement is open to change and as Ive suggested it isnt the uk that HAS to put border controls in place, with modern tech we probably dont need to, yes there will be some smuggling but that would happen anyway if there are savings to be made that outweigh the risk border or not.
IMVHO its just a remain tactic to try and stop brexit and in many ways is giving those who wish to use violence an excuse"remember most people in northern ireland voted to remain... it was never discussed in any debates on the mainland, but it was discussed in northern ireland regional debates so it was thought of there.... the DUP are the outlier in Northern Ireland politics where they were the only party that wanted out... but that was the softest out as to know effect the manufacturing and agriculture where their position has hardened, their support on this issue has weakened, a queens university poll with the belfast telegraph last month showed that with the no deal option now looking more and more likely.... support for remain over leave is now at about 70-30, the most interesting thing about the survey for me is that the ratios don't really change depending on which side of the divide you were on.... 72% of nationalists, 69% of unionists... it the unholy alliance of moggsy ERG group and Arlene's DUP that are driving this bus now..... remember when the DUP put the brakes on the original agreed UK-EU arrangements but threatening to bring down the government..... | |||
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"I like many I suspect didnt give much thought to the irish border when voting in the ref. It seems to me that the EU and Irish gov are blowing the issues out of all perspective. Ag imports count for a large percent of imports from Ireland but are easily traceable and dont need a border to check what is being traded,the tariffs on most other products are not huge so the UK could just let imports in withut the need for border checks as for people just let them come and go but with the proviso that chackes could be carried out at any time in the North. Anyone crossing the Irish sea needs to show ID now so any eu or non eu citizens can be stopped at the ferries as non eu citizens would be now if the rules were applied properly, as for goods simple spot checks on the mainland could be carried out with any goods that hadnt paid any tariff due being destroyed, I dont think many importers would take that risk for the low cost of tariffs on most imports, also any NI based transport companies caught hauling goods in without the proper paperwork would have their Operators licence removed. So basically the uk doesnt need a border between us and the south but the south would to comply with eu regs. No doubt there would be some small scale smuggling but that would happen anyway even if a border was imposed on our side. Now some may have reasons why that wont work but I think it could So now you are saying back to the idea of passport control between NI and the mainland Britain? I thought that was already deemed to be a big no-no by most concerned? -Matt There is already passport/photo ID control between NI and the mainland just the same as there is between the UK and mainland europe, so in reality there would be no difference for uk citizens, non uk ones would be then checked. Do you agree that the south will have to have a border to meet eu regs unless the uk effectively remains in the eu by all but name? You might have airlines require photo id, but there is no passport check between NI and the UK. You do not need a passport to travel between the two. That is the point. In requiring a passport between NI and UK there is implication that NI is not an equal part of the UK. -Matt I didnt say there was a passport check, Irish ferries tell you to carry ID, I know things could have changed since the last time I used a ferry but needed to show mine then. Its only foot passengers that would be able to get through in any case as vehicle regs would tell where the vehicle came from and a register of all hire vehicles would catch any using hire cars etc. Would some get through if it wasnt a full check on everyone possibly but of course as ireland is an island that will give us protection from non eu migrants to a degree. Is it perfect? No but I again ask the question,will the Irish gov will have to have a hard border to meet eu rules YES or NO" The EU have not made any plans to put in any hard border infrastructure in Ireland in the event of no deal. An Italian MEP was on BBC Newsnight one night in the week and when Evan Davies asked him "What are your (the EU) plans for the Irish border in the event of no deal? The Italian MEP was stumped and couldn't answer. So its pretty clear all this talk about a hard border from the EU is a ruse to try to scare people, the politics of fear. | |||
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" There was a study a year or so ago by Grant Thornton, that said that smuggling cost the Irish exchequer 800 Million Euros and Irish business 1.6 Billion Euros a year. Even cattle has been smuggled backwards and forwards to exploit EU payments and subsidies!" What was being smuggled and how do they know it is and if they know why arent they stopping it? AS for cattle that is wrong plain and simple, every animal has a passport and every single movement has to be recorded on the national UK database, all uk cattle have to be recorded within 28 days of birth, any death must be recorded and the passport goes with it on any movement to the new owner and it has to accompany it to slaughter or it will be destroyed and not put into the food chain. NO animal over 28 will be issued with one so no animal can be smuggled into the UK and be registered, not 100% sure of the Irish method but assume its similar | |||
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" The EU have not made any plans to put in any hard border infrastructure in Ireland in the event of no deal. An Italian MEP was on BBC Newsnight one night in the week and when Evan Davies asked him "What are your (the EU) plans for the Irish border in the event of no deal? The Italian MEP was stumped and couldn't answer. So its pretty clear all this talk about a hard border from the EU is a ruse to try to scare people, the politics of fear. " That is because, when it comes to the Irish border, the EU is taking instruction from Ireland. And the last thing Ireland wants is a hard border. So the EU has secured an agreement with the UK that, in the absence of any alternative, Northern Ireland will remain in the customs union etc come March 29 next year. That is the current position. Now, if the UK reneges on that, I imagine all hell will be let loose and the Irish border will be just one of many things imploding on March 29. | |||
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"Why are you calling it the Irish border. It is the british border in Ireland. No one in Ireland wants a border except the DUP! " But eu rules will insist on the irish having a border we can choose if we want one or not | |||
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"Why are you calling it the Irish border. It is the british border in Ireland. No one in Ireland wants a border except the DUP! " Because it is a border on the island of Ireland. You already have a border now in many ways, a currency border, a tax border, a health care border, etc, many differences already exist on either side of the border and have done for decades. | |||
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"I like many I suspect didnt give much thought to the irish border when voting in the ref. It seems to me that the EU and Irish gov are blowing the issues out of all perspective. Ag imports count for a large percent of imports from Ireland but are easily traceable and dont need a border to check what is being traded,the tariffs on most other products are not huge so the UK could just let imports in withut the need for border checks as for people just let them come and go but with the proviso that chackes could be carried out at any time in the North. Anyone crossing the Irish sea needs to show ID now so any eu or non eu citizens can be stopped at the ferries as non eu citizens would be now if the rules were applied properly, as for goods simple spot checks on the mainland could be carried out with any goods that hadnt paid any tariff due being destroyed, I dont think many importers would take that risk for the low cost of tariffs on most imports, also any NI based transport companies caught hauling goods in without the proper paperwork would have their Operators licence removed. So basically the uk doesnt need a border between us and the south but the south would to comply with eu regs. No doubt there would be some small scale smuggling but that would happen anyway even if a border was imposed on our side. Now some may have reasons why that wont work but I think it could So now you are saying back to the idea of passport control between NI and the mainland Britain? I thought that was already deemed to be a big no-no by most concerned? -Matt There is already passport/photo ID control between NI and the mainland just the same as there is between the UK and mainland europe, so in reality there would be no difference for uk citizens, non uk ones would be then checked. Do you agree that the south will have to have a border to meet eu regs unless the uk effectively remains in the eu by all but name? You might have airlines require photo id, but there is no passport check between NI and the UK. You do not need a passport to travel between the two. That is the point. In requiring a passport between NI and UK there is implication that NI is not an equal part of the UK. -Matt I didnt say there was a passport check, Irish ferries tell you to carry ID, I know things could have changed since the last time I used a ferry but needed to show mine then. Its only foot passengers that would be able to get through in any case as vehicle regs would tell where the vehicle came from and a register of all hire vehicles would catch any using hire cars etc. Would some get through if it wasnt a full check on everyone possibly but of course as ireland is an island that will give us protection from non eu migrants to a degree. Is it perfect? No but I again ask the question,will the Irish gov will have to have a hard border to meet eu rules YES or NO" The question of the republic having to put a border in place Will never arise , Reason being , the uk will have to give in , the uk ant in a position strong enough to negotiate any other outcome , A country that can't come to an agreement amongst themselves is pathetic , The DUP are pulling the strings in Westminster , they are the only reason May can't agree to checks in the irish sea , Eventually when the uk realize what leaving without a deal means to the country , there will be a sea border , And that's the reason your hearing talk today of snap election , May is trying to get more seats in parliament that means she won't have to listen to the DUP , that gives her room to negotiate , | |||
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"There is an all Ireland system for animals. They can move freely north and south. Going cross the Irish Sea is where the checking is done. There are so many difference between the North of Ireland and britain such as animal welfare, abortion, gay marriage etc. Electric bikes are not legal in the North unlike in Britain. " Animals can't travel north south freely , Animals have to go through export yards going up north , they need vet inspection before loading and again on arrival in the north they are inspected , | |||
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"There is an all Ireland system for animals. They can move freely north and south. Going cross the Irish Sea is where the checking is done. There are so many difference between the North of Ireland and britain such as animal welfare, abortion, gay marriage etc. Electric bikes are not legal in the North unlike in Britain. Animals can't travel north south freely , Animals have to go through export yards going up north , they need vet inspection before loading and again on arrival in the north they are inspected ," My point wasnt about how easy they are to move it was about smuggling and the fact that cattle have to have passports from birth so cant be "smuggled" anywhere | |||
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" There is already passport/photo ID control between NI and the mainland just the same as there is between the UK and mainland europe, so in reality there would be no difference for uk citizens, non uk ones would be then checked. Do you agree that the south will have to have a border to meet eu regs unless the uk effectively remains in the eu by all but name? You might have airlines require photo id, but there is no passport check between NI and the UK. You do not need a passport to travel between the two. That is the point. In requiring a passport between NI and UK there is implication that NI is not an equal part of the UK. -Matt I didnt say there was a passport check, Irish ferries tell you to carry ID, I know things could have changed since the last time I used a ferry but needed to show mine then." Gaslighting? Why? There are so many real issues to deal with here, what is the point in trying to claim "I didn't say there was a passport check" when you literally said as quoted above "There is already passport/photo ID control between NI and the mainland"? -Matt | |||
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"The EU have deeper pockets than HMG. Mayhem wants to protect the "union". All her actions will hasten independence for Scotland and the North of Ireland and finish off the "union" for good. " We all know it is inevitable that the UK breaks up because of brexit and it's a probably a good thing . | |||
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"The EU have deeper pockets than HMG. Mayhem wants to protect the "union". All her actions will hasten independence for Scotland and the North of Ireland and finish off the "union" for good. " We all know it is inevitable that the UK breaks up because of brexit and it's a probably a good thing . | |||
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"It’s not because of brexit tho it was always going to happen it’s just a case of when bob" Brexit is giving the Northern Irish and the Scots a nudge in the right direction .You are right it's been a long time coming . | |||
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" There was a study a year or so ago by Grant Thornton, that said that smuggling cost the Irish exchequer 800 Million Euros and Irish business 1.6 Billion Euros a year. Even cattle has been smuggled backwards and forwards to exploit EU payments and subsidies! What was being smuggled and how do they know it is and if they know why arent they stopping it? AS for cattle that is wrong plain and simple, every animal has a passport and every single movement has to be recorded on the national UK database, all uk cattle have to be recorded within 28 days of birth, any death must be recorded and the passport goes with it on any movement to the new owner and it has to accompany it to slaughter or it will be destroyed and not put into the food chain. NO animal over 28 will be issued with one so no animal can be smuggled into the UK and be registered, not 100% sure of the Irish method but assume its similar " Try googling 'what is smuggled across the irish border', and Grant Thornton. | |||
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" There was a study a year or so ago by Grant Thornton, that said that smuggling cost the Irish exchequer 800 Million Euros and Irish business 1.6 Billion Euros a year. Even cattle has been smuggled backwards and forwards to exploit EU payments and subsidies! What was being smuggled and how do they know it is and if they know why arent they stopping it? AS for cattle that is wrong plain and simple, every animal has a passport and every single movement has to be recorded on the national UK database, all uk cattle have to be recorded within 28 days of birth, any death must be recorded and the passport goes with it on any movement to the new owner and it has to accompany it to slaughter or it will be destroyed and not put into the food chain. NO animal over 28 will be issued with one so no animal can be smuggled into the UK and be registered, not 100% sure of the Irish method but assume its similar Try googling 'what is smuggled across the irish border', and Grant Thornton." Diesel is a huge problem as many garages in the south sell washed agri diesel from the north who h then fucks up the engine in your car plus wash8ng the diesel has a toxic by product which the fuel.smugglers dump | |||
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"Course they are being smuggled , look up the numbers of animals stolen around the border area , They are being stolen and slaughtered through dodgy slaughter houses, there meat is then sold on when mixed with animals brought into the system legally , and without a border north south or regulatory alignment , chlorine chicken and home beef imported into the uk will make it's way into eu food chain " Which side of the border are they being stolen? Uk slaughter houses have ministry vets on hand and they should be checking numbers that go through, if they are being killed then that must be through back street places not regulated ones or ones operating outside normal hours, of course crooks will find ways round rules regardless of borders, thats why we have had horse meet in food in the uk when its meant to be beef etc | |||
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"Just a quick one on castle rustling. Happens all the time and sheep rustling is a huge problem for farmers in the south. Can't be sure where these animals end up but it's easier than you think to remove the tags off one cow and place them on another cow. So if farmer A loses cattle to accident of disease he can take tags off and place on a healthy stolen cow. If one cow is diagnosed with TB the whole hard is impounded and can't be sold until the sick cow is clear. Having to hold cattle over the winter can cost thousands so much easier to kill the sick cow and steal a healthy one then your hard gets the all clear and off they go to the Mart or the factory" Cows with TB dont get cured, Im not sure of the type of tags used in the south but in the uk there is no way you can reuse tags and if you requested a replacement set for a cow under restriction it would soon get picked up, here reactors are taking straight away only non conclusive can be kept for a retest so there would be no reason to steal cattle to replace ones that are reactors. One of the reasons we gave up keeping cattle was TB, thankfully the badger cull is having big results with new outbreaks down by over 50% | |||
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"Just a quick one on castle rustling. Happens all the time and sheep rustling is a huge problem for farmers in the south. Can't be sure where these animals end up but it's easier than you think to remove the tags off one cow and place them on another cow. So if farmer A loses cattle to accident of disease he can take tags off and place on a healthy stolen cow. If one cow is diagnosed with TB the whole hard is impounded and can't be sold until the sick cow is clear. Having to hold cattle over the winter can cost thousands so much easier to kill the sick cow and steal a healthy one then your hard gets the all clear and off they go to the Mart or the factory Cows with TB dont get cured, Im not sure of the type of tags used in the south but in the uk there is no way you can reuse tags and if you requested a replacement set for a cow under restriction it would soon get picked up, here reactors are taking straight away only non conclusive can be kept for a retest so there would be no reason to steal cattle to replace ones that are reactors. One of the reasons we gave up keeping cattle was TB, thankfully the badger cull is having big results with new outbreaks down by over 50% " In the south where we are but im sure animals are stolen up north to. There is the possibility of corrupt vets ? | |||
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"Just a quick one on castle rustling. Happens all the time and sheep rustling is a huge problem for farmers in the south. Can't be sure where these animals end up but it's easier than you think to remove the tags off one cow and place them on another cow. So if farmer A loses cattle to accident of disease he can take tags off and place on a healthy stolen cow. If one cow is diagnosed with TB the whole hard is impounded and can't be sold until the sick cow is clear. Having to hold cattle over the winter can cost thousands so much easier to kill the sick cow and steal a healthy one then your hard gets the all clear and off they go to the Mart or the factory Cows with TB dont get cured, Im not sure of the type of tags used in the south but in the uk there is no way you can reuse tags and if you requested a replacement set for a cow under restriction it would soon get picked up, here reactors are taking straight away only non conclusive can be kept for a retest so there would be no reason to steal cattle to replace ones that are reactors. One of the reasons we gave up keeping cattle was TB, thankfully the badger cull is having big results with new outbreaks down by over 50% In the south where we are but im sure animals are stolen up north to. There is the possibility of corrupt vets ?" bad apples in every barrel unfortunatly | |||
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"The EU have deeper pockets than HMG. Mayhem wants to protect the "union". All her actions will hasten independence for Scotland and the North of Ireland and finish off the "union" for good. We all know it is inevitable that the UK breaks up because of brexit and it's a probably a good thing ." So you'll be voting leave if there is another vote on it then Bob? | |||
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"The EU have deeper pockets than HMG. Mayhem wants to protect the "union". All her actions will hasten independence for Scotland and the North of Ireland and finish off the "union" for good. " Lol, who was it who bailed Rep of Ireland out just a few years ago? It was the UK, what help did you get from the rest of the EU then? If you think the EU have deep pockets go and ask Greece how generous the EU were when they were in trouble. They were saddled with a mountain of debt and EU imposed austerity, that's how deep the EU's pockets are. | |||
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"The EU have deeper pockets than HMG. Mayhem wants to protect the "union". All her actions will hasten independence for Scotland and the North of Ireland and finish off the "union" for good. Lol, who was it who bailed Rep of Ireland out just a few years ago? It was the UK, what help did you get from the rest of the EU then? If you think the EU have deep pockets go and ask Greece how generous the EU were when they were in trouble. They were saddled with a mountain of debt and EU imposed austerity, that's how deep the EU's pockets are. " Just to add, if there is no deal turns out Boris Johnson was right when he said "the EU can go whistle" for its £40 billion divorce payment. Without that £40 billion from the uk there is going to be a massive black hole in the EU's finances. The EU will be running on a deficit not a surplus, so maybe the EU's pockets are not that deep after all. | |||
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"When is France's HUGE pension debt gonna catch up with then if we don't pay for it?" The Italian banking crisis has not gone away either. It's a ticking time bomb. | |||
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"Lol, who was it who bailed Rep of Ireland out just a few years ago? It was the UK, what help did you get from the rest of the EU then? " if you are going to try and hang that over the people of ireland's head then two things you need to know... a) it was the IMF actually who bailed out ireland, of which it was some money the UK gave to the IMF b) it was all paid back 18 months early... with interest! so lets not pretend the UK didn't make any money out of it!!!! "If you think the EU have deep pockets go and ask Greece how generous the EU were when they were in trouble. They were saddled with a mountain of debt and EU imposed austerity, that's how deep the EU's pockets are. " the eurozone bailed them out... greece have actually now finished paying it back!!! what the eurozone asked them to do was a few things... such as raising the state pension age! (which was 52 before the crisis started) and making sure they collected taxes from people rather than the super rich considering it "optional"..... | |||
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"When is France's HUGE pension debt gonna catch up with then if we don't pay for it?" the UK also has a huge ticking Pension debt looming... why do you think the planned state pension age changes are coming... 66 in 2020, 67 in 2028, 68 in 2038 and so on......... | |||
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"since you all knoew what you were voting for.... i think it might be an idea to start looking up the words.... "european energy market"..... i'll leave it there.... but if the english hard line brexiteers start the threaten the EU with all sorts of nonsense.... just bear those three word in mind.... (people in northern ireland may know what i am getting at.... i'll leave it to the rest of you to have a read)" The voice of doom speaks again, have you ever thought about going out and having some fun!Lol | |||
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" The voice of doom speaks again, have you ever thought about going out and having some fun!Lol "have fun most weekends thanks for asking...... | |||
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" The voice of doom speaks again, have you ever thought about going out and having some fun!Lol
have fun most weekends thanks for asking...... "Though not by watching the gooners | |||
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" The voice of doom speaks again, have you ever thought about going out and having some fun!Lol
have fun most weekends thanks for asking...... "Would never have guessed, you come across as someone who is never happier than when they are trying to make everyone miserable with their scaremongering! | |||
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" The voice of doom speaks again, have you ever thought about going out and having some fun!Lol
have fun most weekends thanks for asking......
Would never have guessed, you come across as someone who is never happier than when they are trying to make everyone miserable with their scaremongering! "see.... i go by the mantra "forewarned is forearmed" so when things in your rosy eyed world don't go right.... rather than then panicking, i've already planned for it! 
also makes me laugh if you are one of those people who stick your head in the sand... shit occurs... and then you say "well never saw that one coming!!!" | |||
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" The voice of doom speaks again, have you ever thought about going out and having some fun!Lol
have fun most weekends thanks for asking......
Would never have guessed, you come across as someone who is never happier than when they are trying to make everyone miserable with their scaremongering!
see.... i go by the mantra "forewarned is forearmed"
so when things in your rosy eyed world don't go right.... rather than then panicking, i've already planned for it!
also makes me laugh if you are one of those people who stick your head in the sand... shit occurs... and then you say "well never saw that one coming!!!" "Never panicked a day in my life, more the cool, calm and collective type where you come across as someone prone to being hysterical!Have always found that sticking your head in the sand means you end up with it in your eyes! | |||
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"When is France's HUGE pension debt gonna catch up with then if we don't pay for it? the UK also has a huge ticking Pension debt looming... why do you think the planned state pension age changes are coming... 66 in 2020, 67 in 2028, 68 in 2038 and so on........." That's the NHS for you. Keeping people alive for longer and longer. How inconsiderate of it.  | |||
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"Course they are being smuggled , look up the numbers of animals stolen around the border area , They are being stolen and slaughtered through dodgy slaughter houses, there meat is then sold on when mixed with animals brought into the system legally , and without a border north south or regulatory alignment , chlorine chicken and home beef imported into the uk will make it's way into eu food chain Which side of the border are they being stolen? Uk slaughter houses have ministry vets on hand and they should be checking numbers that go through, if they are being killed then that must be through back street places not regulated ones or ones operating outside normal hours, of course crooks will find ways round rules regardless of borders, thats why we have had horse meet in food in the uk when its meant to be beef etc" So now you're saying cattle is smuggled? Just that it must be through 'illegal channels'?  | |||
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"Course they are being smuggled , look up the numbers of animals stolen around the border area , They are being stolen and slaughtered through dodgy slaughter houses, there meat is then sold on when mixed with animals brought into the system legally , and without a border north south or regulatory alignment , chlorine chicken and home beef imported into the uk will make it's way into eu food chain Which side of the border are they being stolen? Uk slaughter houses have ministry vets on hand and they should be checking numbers that go through, if they are being killed then that must be through back street places not regulated ones or ones operating outside normal hours, of course crooks will find ways round rules regardless of borders, thats why we have had horse meet in food in the uk when its meant to be beef etc So now you're saying cattle is smuggled? Just that it must be through 'illegal channels'? "I’m not sure how horse meat in beef is due to smuggling. Just standards not being met. To those who know the details, or would a soft border with checks mikes and miles away work if the Eu legalised cannabis ? | |||
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"Who apart from the DUP have a problem with the border being in the sea and northern Ireland remaining closely aligned with the eu ??? " all the people who voted for the DUP I would guess. | |||
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"Who apart from the DUP have a problem with the border being in the sea and northern Ireland remaining closely aligned with the eu ??? all the people who voted for the DUP I would guess. " obviously , but would great Britain care | |||
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"Who apart from the DUP have a problem with the border being in the sea and northern Ireland remaining closely aligned with the eu ??? all the people who voted for the DUP I would guess. obviously , but would great Britain care " well yes they are part of the union. | |||
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"Who apart from the DUP have a problem with the border being in the sea and northern Ireland remaining closely aligned with the eu ??? all the people who voted for the DUP I would guess. obviously , but would great Britain care well yes they are part of the union." It's suggested in one of the irish papers today that northern Ireland should be given a vote on whether they want to be in the UK customs union or the eu customs union | |||
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"Who apart from the DUP have a problem with the border being in the sea and northern Ireland remaining closely aligned with the eu ??? all the people who voted for the DUP I would guess. obviously , but would great Britain care well yes they are part of the union. It's suggested in one of the irish papers today that northern Ireland should be given a vote on whether they want to be in the UK customs union or the eu customs union " I have some n Ireland friends and they seem to think there is no appetite for a United Ireland at the moment which is what s ireland is trying to achieve through the backdoor of brexit.But I don't know enough about the politics to comment myself. | |||
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"I could be absolutely wrong, but I think that's an individual country's decision and unlikely to be something the EU could legislate about...or am I missing some innuendo? Personally feel quite strongly it should be legalised. Not for my use but for reduction of association with harder drugs" its an example. Maybe not the best one. But a bit more tangible than legalised drug standards changing. | |||
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"Who apart from the DUP have a problem with the border being in the sea and northern Ireland remaining closely aligned with the eu ??? all the people who voted for the DUP I would guess. obviously , but would great Britain care well yes they are part of the union. It's suggested in one of the irish papers today that northern Ireland should be given a vote on whether they want to be in the UK customs union or the eu customs union I have some n Ireland friends and they seem to think there is no appetite for a United Ireland at the moment which is what s ireland is trying to achieve through the backdoor of brexit.But I don't know enough about the politics to comment myself. " It's not suggesting a United ireland it's having northern Ireland in customs union of sorts with uk rule | |||
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"Who apart from the DUP have a problem with the border being in the sea and northern Ireland remaining closely aligned with the eu ??? " All unionists are against a border down the Irish Sea. That's the majority in N Ireland (not just the DUP). There are a lot of the conservative party that are also opposed to a sea border as it would put a rift between parts of the same country. It's also illogical. Northern Ireland does more trade with GB than with Ireland. Why make THAT more difficult? | |||
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"Who apart from the DUP have a problem with the border being in the sea and northern Ireland remaining closely aligned with the eu ??? All unionists are against a border down the Irish Sea. That's the majority in N Ireland (not just the DUP). There are a lot of the conservative party that are also opposed to a sea border as it would put a rift between parts of the same country. It's also illogical. Northern Ireland does more trade with GB than with Ireland. Why make THAT more difficult?" N Ireland is a drain on the UK exchequer - give it to the Republic I say | |||
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"I could be absolutely wrong, but I think that's an individual country's decision and unlikely to be something the EU could legislate about...or am I missing some innuendo? Personally feel quite strongly it should be legalised. Not for my use but for reduction of association with harder drugsits an example. Maybe not the best one. But a bit more tangible than legalised drug standards changing. " Not exactly sure what the context was but with regard to medical drugs, at the moment a drug licensed in an EU country only has to apply for a license here with a six month consult period, which isn't always great as proof of safety isn't always the same and six months is too short to test. | |||
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"Who apart from the DUP have a problem with the border being in the sea and northern Ireland remaining closely aligned with the eu ??? All unionists are against a border down the Irish Sea. That's the majority in N Ireland (not just the DUP). There are a lot of the conservative party that are also opposed to a sea border as it would put a rift between parts of the same country. It's also illogical. Northern Ireland does more trade with GB than with Ireland. Why make THAT more difficult? N Ireland is a drain on the UK exchequer - give it to the Republic I say " Maybe they'd prefer being an independent state to being part of the Republic of Ireland? Or don't they have a say in the matter? | |||
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"Who apart from the DUP have a problem with the border being in the sea and northern Ireland remaining closely aligned with the eu ??? All unionists are against a border down the Irish Sea. That's the majority in N Ireland (not just the DUP). There are a lot of the conservative party that are also opposed to a sea border as it would put a rift between parts of the same country. It's also illogical. Northern Ireland does more trade with GB than with Ireland. Why make THAT more difficult? N Ireland is a drain on the UK exchequer - give it to the Republic I say " Wow what a statement. Invade a country and and split it's people to such an extent that hate and mistrust on both side is the norm. Pillage it's resources and kill when they don't conform to your way of thinking and then throw them to the dogs. What an ass | |||
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"We will have to reintroduce a proper border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, otherwise what would all this have been for? If an immigrant to the EU can simply walk into the UK via Ireland, then we have gained control of our borders for nothing. Sure the over dramatic lovies on the left will make this out to be the end of the world. In truth it will be a bit of a pain for some who travel regularly between the two. Those spouting paranoiac bull about a return to the “troubles,” need their bumps feeling. Besides all that, we can take the border away again when ROI leave the EU as well,
So you are advocating breaking the terms of the good Friday agreement which has been the backbone of peace in Northern Ireland for the last 20 years to achieve your brexit dream...
That is awfully selfish... but I am glad a leaver finally admitting it
Every agreement is open to change and as Ive suggested it isnt the uk that HAS to put border controls in place, with modern tech we probably dont need to, yes there will be some smuggling but that would happen anyway if there are savings to be made that outweigh the risk border or not.
IMVHO its just a remain tactic to try and stop brexit and in many ways is giving those who wish to use violence an excuse"Exactly, it is one of many scare tactics driven by rabid remoaners, in an attempt to call a stop to our independence before we even get it. If there is going to be a border, it won’t be anything like the one they had before. In the main part I believe it will be automated. If one has a British or Irish passport, then it could well be a simple scan. As far as smuggling is concerned, surely there will be less if there is a border. | |||
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"We will have to reintroduce a proper border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, otherwise what would all this have been for? If an immigrant to the EU can simply walk into the UK via Ireland, then we have gained control of our borders for nothing. Sure the over dramatic lovies on the left will make this out to be the end of the world. In truth it will be a bit of a pain for some who travel regularly between the two. Those spouting paranoiac bull about a return to the “troubles,” need their bumps feeling. Besides all that, we can take the border away again when ROI leave the EU as well,
So you are advocating breaking the terms of the good Friday agreement which has been the backbone of peace in Northern Ireland for the last 20 years to achieve your brexit dream...
That is awfully selfish... but I am glad a leaver finally admitting it
Every agreement is open to change and as Ive suggested it isnt the uk that HAS to put border controls in place, with modern tech we probably dont need to, yes there will be some smuggling but that would happen anyway if there are savings to be made that outweigh the risk border or not.
IMVHO its just a remain tactic to try and stop brexit and in many ways is giving those who wish to use violence an excuse
Exactly, it is one of many scare tactics driven by rabid remoaners, in an attempt to call a stop to our independence before we even get it.
If there is going to be a border, it won’t be anything like the one they had before. In the main part I believe it will be automated. If one has a British or Irish passport, then it could well be a simple scan. As far as smuggling is concerned, surely there will be less if there is a border. ""call a stop to our independence before we even get it" Do you even stop to listen to yourself at all? You have been whipped up into a frenzy to believe you are fighting for something that we have lost, when we never lost it in the first place. -Matt | |||
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"We will have to reintroduce a proper border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, otherwise what would all this have been for? If an immigrant to the EU can simply walk into the UK via Ireland, then we have gained control of our borders for nothing. Sure the over dramatic lovies on the left will make this out to be the end of the world. In truth it will be a bit of a pain for some who travel regularly between the two. Those spouting paranoiac bull about a return to the “troubles,” need their bumps feeling. Besides all that, we can take the border away again when ROI leave the EU as well,
So you are advocating breaking the terms of the good Friday agreement which has been the backbone of peace in Northern Ireland for the last 20 years to achieve your brexit dream...
That is awfully selfish... but I am glad a leaver finally admitting it
Every agreement is open to change and as Ive suggested it isnt the uk that HAS to put border controls in place, with modern tech we probably dont need to, yes there will be some smuggling but that would happen anyway if there are savings to be made that outweigh the risk border or not.
IMVHO its just a remain tactic to try and stop brexit and in many ways is giving those who wish to use violence an excuse
Exactly, it is one of many scare tactics driven by rabid remoaners, in an attempt to call a stop to our independence before we even get it.
If there is going to be a border, it won’t be anything like the one they had before. In the main part I believe it will be automated. If one has a British or Irish passport, then it could well be a simple scan. As far as smuggling is concerned, surely there will be less if there is a border. "You fool if there is a border your asking for trouble the like you never see before , The British government agreed to good Friday agreement , that brought about an end to violence both in northern Ireland and the uk main land , If the British government back out of the good Friday agreement , Do you expect republican side to just go along with it ? | |||
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"We will have to reintroduce a proper border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, otherwise what would all this have been for? If an immigrant to the EU can simply walk into the UK via Ireland, then we have gained control of our borders for nothing. Sure the over dramatic lovies on the left will make this out to be the end of the world. In truth it will be a bit of a pain for some who travel regularly between the two. Those spouting paranoiac bull about a return to the “troubles,” need their bumps feeling. Besides all that, we can take the border away again when ROI leave the EU as well,
So you are advocating breaking the terms of the good Friday agreement which has been the backbone of peace in Northern Ireland for the last 20 years to achieve your brexit dream...
That is awfully selfish... but I am glad a leaver finally admitting it
Every agreement is open to change and as Ive suggested it isnt the uk that HAS to put border controls in place, with modern tech we probably dont need to, yes there will be some smuggling but that would happen anyway if there are savings to be made that outweigh the risk border or not.
IMVHO its just a remain tactic to try and stop brexit and in many ways is giving those who wish to use violence an excuse
Exactly, it is one of many scare tactics driven by rabid remoaners, in an attempt to call a stop to our independence before we even get it.
If there is going to be a border, it won’t be anything like the one they had before. In the main part I believe it will be automated. If one has a British or Irish passport, then it could well be a simple scan. As far as smuggling is concerned, surely there will be less if there is a border.
You fool if there is a border your asking for trouble the like you never see before ,
The British government agreed to good Friday agreement , that brought about an end to violence both in northern Ireland and the uk main land ,
If the British government back out of the good Friday agreement ,
Do you expect republican side to just go along with it ?
"The agreement arose because the terrorists were heavily defeated and had no option but to negotiate in order to save face. | |||
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"Who apart from the DUP have a problem with the border being in the sea and northern Ireland remaining closely aligned with the eu ??? All unionists are against a border down the Irish Sea. That's the majority in N Ireland (not just the DUP). There are a lot of the conservative party that are also opposed to a sea border as it would put a rift between parts of the same country. It's also illogical. Northern Ireland does more trade with GB than with Ireland. Why make THAT more difficult? N Ireland is a drain on the UK exchequer - give it to the Republic I say " That is a bizarre statement to make. If it is a drain as you are suggesting, why would the ROI want it . As the situation currently stands the party which wants unity with the UK has returned more MPs than any other party in Northern Ireland so at least democracy is still in place . | |||
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"We will have to reintroduce a proper border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, otherwise what would all this have been for? If an immigrant to the EU can simply walk into the UK via Ireland, then we have gained control of our borders for nothing. Sure the over dramatic lovies on the left will make this out to be the end of the world. In truth it will be a bit of a pain for some who travel regularly between the two. Those spouting paranoiac bull about a return to the “troubles,” need their bumps feeling. Besides all that, we can take the border away again when ROI leave the EU as well,
So you are advocating breaking the terms of the good Friday agreement which has been the backbone of peace in Northern Ireland for the last 20 years to achieve your brexit dream...
That is awfully selfish... but I am glad a leaver finally admitting it
Every agreement is open to change and as Ive suggested it isnt the uk that HAS to put border controls in place, with modern tech we probably dont need to, yes there will be some smuggling but that would happen anyway if there are savings to be made that outweigh the risk border or not.
IMVHO its just a remain tactic to try and stop brexit and in many ways is giving those who wish to use violence an excuse
Exactly, it is one of many scare tactics driven by rabid remoaners, in an attempt to call a stop to our independence before we even get it.
If there is going to be a border, it won’t be anything like the one they had before. In the main part I believe it will be automated. If one has a British or Irish passport, then it could well be a simple scan. As far as smuggling is concerned, surely there will be less if there is a border.
You fool if there is a border your asking for trouble the like you never see before ,
The British government agreed to good Friday agreement , that brought about an end to violence both in northern Ireland and the uk main land ,
If the British government back out of the good Friday agreement ,
Do you expect republican side to just go along with it ?
The agreement arose because the terrorists were heavily defeated and had no option but to negotiate in order to save face. "Heavily defeated lol
I love your optimism ,
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"Who apart from the DUP have a problem with the border being in the sea and northern Ireland remaining closely aligned with the eu ??? All unionists are against a border down the Irish Sea. That's the majority in N Ireland (not just the DUP). There are a lot of the conservative party that are also opposed to a sea border as it would put a rift between parts of the same country. It's also illogical. Northern Ireland does more trade with GB than with Ireland. Why make THAT more difficult? N Ireland is a drain on the UK exchequer - give it to the Republic I say Wow what a statement. Invade a country and and split it's people to such an extent that hate and mistrust on both side is the norm. Pillage it's resources and kill when they don't conform to your way of thinking and then throw them to the dogs. What an ass"
I am afraid that the Irish will not be to keen to join the British and revive some “old glorious joined” values if this is how the British value their own Northern Irish brits . Sort of British second class citizens | |||
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"Who apart from the DUP have a problem with the border being in the sea and northern Ireland remaining closely aligned with the eu ??? All unionists are against a border down the Irish Sea. That's the majority in N Ireland (not just the DUP). There are a lot of the conservative party that are also opposed to a sea border as it would put a rift between parts of the same country. It's also illogical. Northern Ireland does more trade with GB than with Ireland. Why make THAT more difficult? N Ireland is a drain on the UK exchequer - give it to the Republic I say Wow what a statement. Invade a country and and split it's people to such an extent that hate and mistrust on both side is the norm. Pillage it's resources and kill when they don't conform to your way of thinking and then throw them to the dogs. What an ass
I am afraid that the Irish will not be to keen to join the British and revive some “old glorious joined” values if this is how the British value their own Northern Irish brits . Sort of British second class citizens"I don't think it is mate can't judge us all by one extreme view I have some very good N Irish friends. | |||
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"Course they are being smuggled , look up the numbers of animals stolen around the border area , They are being stolen and slaughtered through dodgy slaughter houses, there meat is then sold on when mixed with animals brought into the system legally , and without a border north south or regulatory alignment , chlorine chicken and home beef imported into the uk will make it's way into eu food chain Which side of the border are they being stolen? Uk slaughter houses have ministry vets on hand and they should be checking numbers that go through, if they are being killed then that must be through back street places not regulated ones or ones operating outside normal hours, of course crooks will find ways round rules regardless of borders, thats why we have had horse meet in food in the uk when its meant to be beef etc So now you're saying cattle is smuggled? Just that it must be through 'illegal channels'? "No what I was saying is that cattle have a unique identity that is very hard to change, but that crims will find a way of getting illegal meat into the food chain, but it would be a tiny percent of sales. You cant take a tag from one animal and put it in another, they are tamper proof | |||
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"Who apart from the DUP have a problem with the border being in the sea and northern Ireland remaining closely aligned with the eu ??? All unionists are against a border down the Irish Sea. That's the majority in N Ireland (not just the DUP). There are a lot of the conservative party that are also opposed to a sea border as it would put a rift between parts of the same country. It's also illogical. Northern Ireland does more trade with GB than with Ireland. Why make THAT more difficult? N Ireland is a drain on the UK exchequer - give it to the Republic I say Wow what a statement. Invade a country and and split it's people to such an extent that hate and mistrust on both side is the norm. Pillage it's resources and kill when they don't conform to your way of thinking and then throw them to the dogs. What an ass" That was a tongue in cheek comment btw. I do however believe that Ireland should be reunited (via the ballot box)and that Brexit will hasten that process | |||
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"Who apart from the DUP have a problem with the border being in the sea and northern Ireland remaining closely aligned with the eu ??? All unionists are against a border down the Irish Sea. That's the majority in N Ireland (not just the DUP). There are a lot of the conservative party that are also opposed to a sea border as it would put a rift between parts of the same country. It's also illogical. Northern Ireland does more trade with GB than with Ireland. Why make THAT more difficult? N Ireland is a drain on the UK exchequer - give it to the Republic I say Wow what a statement. Invade a country and and split it's people to such an extent that hate and mistrust on both side is the norm. Pillage it's resources and kill when they don't conform to your way of thinking and then throw them to the dogs. What an ass That was a tongue in cheek comment btw. I do however believe that Ireland should be reunited (via the ballot box)and that Brexit will hasten that process" What's more disturbing is he thinks if the Southern Irish as dogs. | |||
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"Who apart from the DUP have a problem with the border being in the sea and northern Ireland remaining closely aligned with the eu ??? All unionists are against a border down the Irish Sea. That's the majority in N Ireland (not just the DUP). There are a lot of the conservative party that are also opposed to a sea border as it would put a rift between parts of the same country. It's also illogical. Northern Ireland does more trade with GB than with Ireland. Why make THAT more difficult? N Ireland is a drain on the UK exchequer - give it to the Republic I say Wow what a statement. Invade a country and and split it's people to such an extent that hate and mistrust on both side is the norm. Pillage it's resources and kill when they don't conform to your way of thinking and then throw them to the dogs. What an ass That was a tongue in cheek comment btw. I do however believe that Ireland should be reunited (via the ballot box)and that Brexit will hasten that process What's more disturbing is he thinks if the Southern Irish as dogs." is that the general attitude of British people then that we are dogs... | |||
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"Who apart from the DUP have a problem with the border being in the sea and northern Ireland remaining closely aligned with the eu ??? All unionists are against a border down the Irish Sea. That's the majority in N Ireland (not just the DUP). There are a lot of the conservative party that are also opposed to a sea border as it would put a rift between parts of the same country. It's also illogical. Northern Ireland does more trade with GB than with Ireland. Why make THAT more difficult? N Ireland is a drain on the UK exchequer - give it to the Republic I say Wow what a statement. Invade a country and and split it's people to such an extent that hate and mistrust on both side is the norm. Pillage it's resources and kill when they don't conform to your way of thinking and then throw them to the dogs. What an ass That was a tongue in cheek comment btw. I do however believe that Ireland should be reunited (via the ballot box)and that Brexit will hasten that process What's more disturbing is he thinks if the Southern Irish as dogs.is that the general attitude of British people then that we are dogs..." Not sure why you and the poster you quote could conclude that given whoever posted the reference to dogs clearly looks to have stated 'throw them to the dogs'.. | |||
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"Who apart from the DUP have a problem with the border being in the sea and northern Ireland remaining closely aligned with the eu ??? All unionists are against a border down the Irish Sea. That's the majority in N Ireland (not just the DUP). There are a lot of the conservative party that are also opposed to a sea border as it would put a rift between parts of the same country. It's also illogical. Northern Ireland does more trade with GB than with Ireland. Why make THAT more difficult? N Ireland is a drain on the UK exchequer - give it to the Republic I say Wow what a statement. Invade a country and and split it's people to such an extent that hate and mistrust on both side is the norm. Pillage it's resources and kill when they don't conform to your way of thinking and then throw them to the dogs. What an ass That was a tongue in cheek comment btw. I do however believe that Ireland should be reunited (via the ballot box)and that Brexit will hasten that process What's more disturbing is he thinks if the Southern Irish as dogs.is that the general attitude of British people then that we are dogs..." The throw them to the dogs comment was made by a poster from louth/meath.. | |||
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"Who apart from the DUP have a problem with the border being in the sea and northern Ireland remaining closely aligned with the eu ??? All unionists are against a border down the Irish Sea. That's the majority in N Ireland (not just the DUP). There are a lot of the conservative party that are also opposed to a sea border as it would put a rift between parts of the same country. It's also illogical. Northern Ireland does more trade with GB than with Ireland. Why make THAT more difficult? N Ireland is a drain on the UK exchequer - give it to the Republic I say Wow what a statement. Invade a country and and split it's people to such an extent that hate and mistrust on both side is the norm. Pillage it's resources and kill when they don't conform to your way of thinking and then throw them to the dogs. What an ass That was a tongue in cheek comment btw. I do however believe that Ireland should be reunited (via the ballot box)and that Brexit will hasten that process What's more disturbing is he thinks if the Southern Irish as dogs.is that the general attitude of British people then that we are dogs... The throw them to the dogs comment was made by a poster from louth/meath.. " ...I know where the comment came from thank you...I was asking if that is still the attitude of English people toward Ireland and the Irish, | |||
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"Who apart from the DUP have a problem with the border being in the sea and northern Ireland remaining closely aligned with the eu ??? All unionists are against a border down the Irish Sea. That's the majority in N Ireland (not just the DUP). There are a lot of the conservative party that are also opposed to a sea border as it would put a rift between parts of the same country. It's also illogical. Northern Ireland does more trade with GB than with Ireland. Why make THAT more difficult? N Ireland is a drain on the UK exchequer - give it to the Republic I say Wow what a statement. Invade a country and and split it's people to such an extent that hate and mistrust on both side is the norm. Pillage it's resources and kill when they don't conform to your way of thinking and then throw them to the dogs. What an ass That was a tongue in cheek comment btw. I do however believe that Ireland should be reunited (via the ballot box)and that Brexit will hasten that process What's more disturbing is he thinks if the Southern Irish as dogs.is that the general attitude of British people then that we are dogs... The throw them to the dogs comment was made by a poster from louth/meath.. ...I know where the comment came from thank you...I was asking if that is still the attitude of English people toward Ireland and the Irish," Many of us, myself included have some Irish ancestors. I would never refer to Irish people as anything derogatory. But while there are still so many Loyalists in Northern Ireland, I would prefer that it remains a part of the UK. | |||
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"I think that people have forgotten that before we joined the Common Market and before the Troubles, for practical purposes, the border existed in name only.........it worked. Just saying...... " But what you're just saying is just wrong. It's true that there has never been immigration restrictions between the UK and Ireland (common travel area) but there was a manned customs boarder between the two that existed from Ireland's independence, before the 60s troubles and until both countries joined the EC/EU customs union. | |||
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"I like many I suspect didnt give much thought to the irish border when voting in the ref. It seems to me that the EU and Irish gov are blowing the issues out of all perspective. Ag imports count for a large percent of imports from Ireland but are easily traceable and dont need a border to check what is being traded,the tariffs on most other products are not huge so the UK could just let imports in withut the need for border checks as for people just let them come and go but with the proviso that chackes could be carried out at any time in the North. Anyone crossing the Irish sea needs to show ID now so any eu or non eu citizens can be stopped at the ferries as non eu citizens would be now if the rules were applied properly, as for goods simple spot checks on the mainland could be carried out with any goods that hadnt paid any tariff due being destroyed, I dont think many importers would take that risk for the low cost of tariffs on most imports, also any NI based transport companies caught hauling goods in without the proper paperwork would have their Operators licence removed. So basically the uk doesnt need a border between us and the south but the south would to comply with eu regs. No doubt there would be some small scale smuggling but that would happen anyway even if a border was imposed on our side. Now some may have reasons why that wont work but I think it could So now you are saying back to the idea of passport control between NI and the mainland Britain? I thought that was already deemed to be a big no-no by most concerned? -Matt There is already passport/photo ID control between NI and the mainland just the same as there is between the UK and mainland europe, so in reality there would be no difference for uk citizens, non uk ones would be then checked. Do you agree that the south will have to have a border to meet eu regs unless the uk effectively remains in the eu by all but name? You might have airlines require photo id, but there is no passport check between NI and the UK. You do not need a passport to travel between the two. That is the point. In requiring a passport between NI and UK there is implication that NI is not an equal part of the UK. -Matt I didnt say there was a passport check, Irish ferries tell you to carry ID, I know things could have changed since the last time I used a ferry but needed to show mine then. Its only foot passengers that would be able to get through in any case as vehicle regs would tell where the vehicle came from and a register of all hire vehicles would catch any using hire cars etc. Would some get through if it wasnt a full check on everyone possibly but of course as ireland is an island that will give us protection from non eu migrants to a degree. Is it perfect? No but I again ask the question,will the Irish gov will have to have a hard border to meet eu rules YES or NO" If the UK and Ireland are not in the same customs area or agreement then both sides will have to introduce a border or be in violation WTO terms of trade. | |||
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"Why are you calling it the Irish border. It is the british border in Ireland. No one in Ireland wants a border except the DUP! But eu rules will insist on the irish having a border we can choose if we want one or not" No we can't. WTO terms of trade will require both Ireland and the UK to have a customs boarder unless there is a customs agreement between the two. | |||
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"Who apart from the DUP have a problem with the border being in the sea and northern Ireland remaining closely aligned with the eu ??? All unionists are against a border down the Irish Sea. That's the majority in N Ireland (not just the DUP). There are a lot of the conservative party that are also opposed to a sea border as it would put a rift between parts of the same country. It's also illogical. Northern Ireland does more trade with GB than with Ireland. Why make THAT more difficult? N Ireland is a drain on the UK exchequer - give it to the Republic I say Wow what a statement. Invade a country and and split it's people to such an extent that hate and mistrust on both side is the norm. Pillage it's resources and kill when they don't conform to your way of thinking and then throw them to the dogs. What an ass That was a tongue in cheek comment btw. I do however believe that Ireland should be reunited (via the ballot box)and that Brexit will hasten that process What's more disturbing is he thinks if the Southern Irish as dogs.is that the general attitude of British people then that we are dogs... The throw them to the dogs comment was made by a poster from louth/meath.. ...I know where the comment came from thank you...I was asking if that is still the attitude of English people toward Ireland and the Irish," Who on here has said it is? May have been in the 60s with some but it's not been said on here in my time and believe you me with my Mum being a Dublin girl I would have noticed any such attitudes.. | |||
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"Who apart from the DUP have a problem with the border being in the sea and northern Ireland remaining closely aligned with the eu ??? " Me. We're doing enough damage breaking up the European Customs Union and Single Market. Breaking up the UK's Customs Union and Single Market as well would make matters even worse. | |||
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"What happens if there is a physical boarder between North and South? I mean, so what?" A quick look at the introduction of a customs border between Northern Ireland and the Republic from the 1920s onwards should answer that question for you. This time it could be even worse as this time, if we don't sort out something on free movement, it could also be an immigration border too. | |||
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"What happens if there is a physical boarder between North and South? I mean, so what? A quick look at the introduction of a customs border between Northern Ireland and the Republic from the 1920s onwards should answer that question for you. This time it could be even worse as this time, if we don't sort out something on free movement, it could also be an immigration border too. " Nope i don't understand you. I'm still not seeing the bigger picture. | |||
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"What happens if there is a physical boarder between North and South? I mean, so what? A quick look at the introduction of a customs border between Northern Ireland and the Republic from the 1920s onwards should answer that question for you. This time it could be even worse as this time, if we don't sort out something on free movement, it could also be an immigration border too. Nope i don't understand you. I'm still not seeing the bigger picture. " I'll spell it out for you , If great Britain brings about a situation through brexit where there is a border back on the island of Ireland It's the equivalent of great Britain backing out of the good Friday agreement , All bets are off , what will start will make ISIS look like boy scouts , | |||
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" So now you are saying back to the idea of passport control between NI and the mainland Britain? I thought that was already deemed to be a big no-no by most concerned? -Matt The English love a single market and political and monetary union when they are in control of it. They hate it when they are not. " Rubbish just something that is in your head | |||
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"What happens if there is a physical boarder between North and South? I mean, so what? A quick look at the introduction of a customs border between Northern Ireland and the Republic from the 1920s onwards should answer that question for you. This time it could be even worse as this time, if we don't sort out something on free movement, it could also be an immigration border too. Nope i don't understand you. I'm still not seeing the bigger picture. " Clem. Check out Patrick Kielty's response to Boris (all you have to do is Google it) - it might help you underdtand | |||
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"What happens if there is a physical boarder between North and South? I mean, so what?" Seriously? You know that the “troubles” have largely gone away because the Irish Nationalists in the north get to feel Irish as a consequence of firstly the Good Friday Agreement that was later smoothed our even more by the fact that both the U.K. and Eire were part of the EU. In the referendum, Northern Ireland voted overwhelmingly (not marginally) to stay in the EU and they are being taken out against their will. Irish Nationalists will see a division on the island of Ireland as a step backwards and a removal of the rights that they won through the Good Friday Agreement and their EU membership and they are highly likely to hold their long time foes, the United Kingdom and their supporters in Northern Ireland responsible. I can’t believe that anyone can’t see the massive potential of alienating Irish Nationalists by this course of action | |||
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"What happens if there is a physical boarder between North and South? I mean, so what?" Irish comedian Patrick Kielty, whose dad was killed in the troubles, explained this to Bojo on Twitter a few days ago: “1. Northern Ireland is made up of a majority of Unionists (as in the Conservative and Unionist Party) and, believe it or not, a rather large minority of Nationalists (as in Irish Nationalists) “2. These Irish Nationalists don’t see themselves as British but rather inconveniently as Irish (who knew?) “3. For over 30 years we killed each other because of these differences which means Northern Ireland is nothing like Camden or Westminster. “4. The Good Friday Agreement ended that violence by the following devious magic – Unionists were guaranteed that Northern Ireland would be part of the UK until the majority voted otherwise. “The Irish was border was removed and the island linked so Nationalists could pretend they were already living in a United Ireland (yes, Tony Blair did slight of hand much better than you) “5. Some of these Nationalists then accepted being part of the UK as their day to day lives were essentially Irish. “6. This cunning plan was sold to us on the basis that we were all part of the EU therefore fixation on nationality was so last World War. “7. Implementing the Good Friday Agreement was torturous (think Brexit with actual bombs, not metaphorical suicide vests) but we finally made peace. Yet 20 years later NI remains a divided society. “8. Thanks to your glorious Brexit vision Northern Ireland will become more divided as some form of economic border checks will become part of daily lives. “9. If those checks take place between NI and Ireland, the Nationalists who were once happy being part of the UK will change their mind. “10. If they take place in the Irish Sea some Unionists will be livid. However they’ll still support being part of the UK (the clue is in the Unionist bit) “11. Your Brexit lies have opened a Pandora’s box for Northern Ireland. It’s one reason why the majority of people in NI voted to remain in the EU (almost as if they knew more about the fragile equilibrium of their politics than you) “12. Barely mentioned before Brexit, a border poll is now inevitable thanks to your monumental ignorance. “13. When that poll is eventually held the Nationalists who were once content being part of a Northern Ireland within the UK and EU will vote to leave the UK to feel as Irish and European as they did before Brexit. “14. The poll will be much closer thanks to your Brexit folly and could easily be lost by Unionists, breaking up the UK. “15. Any break up of the Union will be your fault (a tad inconvenient as a member of the Conservative and er, Unionist party) “16. The EU is not responsible for your blundering lack of foresight. Like most people in Northern Ireland they were happy with the status quo. “17. By the time the penny drops that you can’t preserve the Union you want without the one you don’t, it will be too late. “18. You will be remembered not as the Churchillian visionary you delude yourself to be but the ignoramus who triggered the break up of the UK. “19. If there’s any justice all this will come to pass when you’re Prime Minister so you can finally swim in the constitutional sewage you’ve created (though we all know you’ll be in Nice with your trotters up) “20. Meantime, if you’re so concerned about keeping Northern Ireland totally aligned with the rest of the UK where’s your support for our same sex marriage and women’s right to choose? Your silence is deafening | |||
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"What happens if there is a physical boarder between North and South? I mean, so what? A quick look at the introduction of a customs border between Northern Ireland and the Republic from the 1920s onwards should answer that question for you. This time it could be even worse as this time, if we don't sort out something on free movement, it could also be an immigration border too. Nope i don't understand you. I'm still not seeing the bigger picture. I'll spell it out for you , If great Britain brings about a situation through brexit where there is a border back on the island of Ireland It's the equivalent of great Britain backing out of the good Friday agreement , All bets are off , what will start will make ISIS look like boy scouts , " yeah right! | |||
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"Every single person who voted leave actually voted in favour of a hard border between Northern Ireland and The Republic , if you say that you didn't realise then you need to ask your Member Of Parliament why she/he did not make this clear to you before you cast your vote ,,,,, in the interest of fairness , if you voted remain you could also ask your Member Of Parliament why the potential problem of the Irish border was not explained prior to the vote ,,,,, and to complete the hat-trick , if you didn't vote but were eligible to perhaps you could also ask your MP why the government of the day didn't explain the significance of the border issue , a point which , if you were aware of may have meant that you voted ( one way or the other) -------- if you read this again you will note that my message does not support one side of the argument or the other ,,, but does point out the gross inept incompetence of the government not to fully explain to everyone what the full implications of their "X" in the box actually meant " Nah, every single person voting leave thought they were voting for £365m a day for the NHS and kick out the foreigners least thats what Boris and Farage promised them. Its just a pity the are so stupid they still believe it    | |||
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"So. You're saying that the uk is powerless to control the Irish boarder, because if they try, the Irish citizens of the European community will attack the citizens of the United kingdom, in such a violent way that they'll make the efforts of ISIS look like boy scouts? Bearing in mind the hundreds of thousands killed and displaced by ISIS... And while this war against the UK rages (because the Irish had to get their passports out) they will expect the EU to continue to fund them, and the UK not to take retaliation against an EU member state who is in a guerrilla war with it. So essentially at the moment the uk is in peace with Ireland because it's being black mailed by terrorism. Welcome to modern age politics.........." Why are you conflating terrorist groups who may revive with brexit with the Irish state and people as a whole? The simple point made is that the conflict in Ireland which goes back a very long time and has caused of death was pretty much settled by the GFA. If brexit leads to the effective abolition of the GFA, the conflict may start all over again. | |||
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" So now you are saying back to the idea of passport control between NI and the mainland Britain? I thought that was already deemed to be a big no-no by most concerned? -Matt The English love a single market and political and monetary union when they are in control of it. They hate it when they are not. Rubbish just something that is in your head" So what is the United Kingdom if it is not a union of nations with political and monetary union? It is the most enduring model yet of political and monetary union, albeit one that remains very centralised. | |||
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"So. You're saying that the uk is powerless to control the Irish boarder, because if they try, the Irish citizens of the European community will attack the citizens of the United kingdom, in such a violent way that they'll make the efforts of ISIS look like boy scouts? Bearing in mind the hundreds of thousands killed and displaced by ISIS... And while this war against the UK rages (because the Irish had to get their passports out) they will expect the EU to continue to fund them, and the UK not to take retaliation against an EU member state who is in a guerrilla war with it. So essentially at the moment the uk is in peace with Ireland because it's being black mailed by terrorism. Welcome to modern age politics.......... Why are you conflating terrorist groups who may revive with brexit with the Irish state and people as a whole? The simple point made is that the conflict in Ireland which goes back a very long time and has caused of death was pretty much settled by the GFA. If brexit leads to the effective abolition of the GFA, the conflict may start all over again. " So the uk is being held to ransom by terrorists. | |||
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"So. You're saying that the uk is powerless to control the Irish boarder, because if they try, the Irish citizens of the European community will attack the citizens of the United kingdom, in such a violent way that they'll make the efforts of ISIS look like boy scouts? Bearing in mind the hundreds of thousands killed and displaced by ISIS... And while this war against the UK rages (because the Irish had to get their passports out) they will expect the EU to continue to fund them, and the UK not to take retaliation against an EU member state who is in a guerrilla war with it. So essentially at the moment the uk is in peace with Ireland because it's being black mailed by terrorism. Welcome to modern age politics.......... Why are you conflating terrorist groups who may revive with brexit with the Irish state and people as a whole? The simple point made is that the conflict in Ireland which goes back a very long time and has caused of death was pretty much settled by the GFA. If brexit leads to the effective abolition of the GFA, the conflict may start all over again. So the uk is being held to ransom by terrorists." You can phrase like that if you like or you could say that brexit makes a revival of Irish terrorism more likely. I am just not sure that the putative terrorists will think. "fuck, the British government have pointed out we are black mailing them, no way can we do that". | |||
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"So. You're saying that the uk is powerless to control the Irish boarder, because if they try, the Irish citizens of the European community will attack the citizens of the United kingdom, in such a violent way that they'll make the efforts of ISIS look like boy scouts? Bearing in mind the hundreds of thousands killed and displaced by ISIS... And while this war against the UK rages (because the Irish had to get their passports out) they will expect the EU to continue to fund them, and the UK not to take retaliation against an EU member state who is in a guerrilla war with it. So essentially at the moment the uk is in peace with Ireland because it's being black mailed by terrorism. Welcome to modern age politics.......... Why are you conflating terrorist groups who may revive with brexit with the Irish state and people as a whole? The simple point made is that the conflict in Ireland which goes back a very long time and has caused of death was pretty much settled by the GFA. If brexit leads to the effective abolition of the GFA, the conflict may start all over again. So the uk is being held to ransom by terrorists." Calling leaver voters terrorists is a bit harsh don't you think? -Matt | |||
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"So. You're saying that the uk is powerless to control the Irish boarder, because if they try, the Irish citizens of the European community will attack the citizens of the United kingdom, in such a violent way that they'll make the efforts of ISIS look like boy scouts? Bearing in mind the hundreds of thousands killed and displaced by ISIS... And while this war against the UK rages (because the Irish had to get their passports out) they will expect the EU to continue to fund them, and the UK not to take retaliation against an EU member state who is in a guerrilla war with it. So essentially at the moment the uk is in peace with Ireland because it's being black mailed by terrorism. Welcome to modern age politics.......... Why are you conflating terrorist groups who may revive with brexit with the Irish state and people as a whole? The simple point made is that the conflict in Ireland which goes back a very long time and has caused of death was pretty much settled by the GFA. If brexit leads to the effective abolition of the GFA, the conflict may start all over again. So the uk is being held to ransom by terrorists. You can phrase like that if you like or you could say that brexit makes a revival of Irish terrorism more likely. I am just not sure that the putative terrorists will think. "fuck, the British government have pointed out we are black mailing them, no way can we do that". " I think a shrewd uk government could make it the EU's problem. It must be for the EU to keep it's member states inline. Or will we see the EU simply annex northern Ireland, taking a play from Putin's book. | |||
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"So. You're saying that the uk is powerless to control the Irish boarder, because if they try, the Irish citizens of the European community will attack the citizens of the United kingdom, in such a violent way that they'll make the efforts of ISIS look like boy scouts? Bearing in mind the hundreds of thousands killed and displaced by ISIS... And while this war against the UK rages (because the Irish had to get their passports out) they will expect the EU to continue to fund them, and the UK not to take retaliation against an EU member state who is in a guerrilla war with it. So essentially at the moment the uk is in peace with Ireland because it's being black mailed by terrorism. Welcome to modern age politics.......... Why are you conflating terrorist groups who may revive with brexit with the Irish state and people as a whole? The simple point made is that the conflict in Ireland which goes back a very long time and has caused of death was pretty much settled by the GFA. If brexit leads to the effective abolition of the GFA, the conflict may start all over again. So the uk is being held to ransom by terrorists. Calling leaver voters terrorists is a bit harsh don't you think? -Matt" He's making the rather silly point that the fact that brexit might re ignite the ulster conflict is being "held to ransom by terrorists" | |||
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"So. You're saying that the uk is powerless to control the Irish boarder, because if they try, the Irish citizens of the European community will attack the citizens of the United kingdom, in such a violent way that they'll make the efforts of ISIS look like boy scouts? Bearing in mind the hundreds of thousands killed and displaced by ISIS... And while this war against the UK rages (because the Irish had to get their passports out) they will expect the EU to continue to fund them, and the UK not to take retaliation against an EU member state who is in a guerrilla war with it. So essentially at the moment the uk is in peace with Ireland because it's being black mailed by terrorism. Welcome to modern age politics.......... Why are you conflating terrorist groups who may revive with brexit with the Irish state and people as a whole? The simple point made is that the conflict in Ireland which goes back a very long time and has caused of death was pretty much settled by the GFA. If brexit leads to the effective abolition of the GFA, the conflict may start all over again. So the uk is being held to ransom by terrorists. Calling leaver voters terrorists is a bit harsh don't you think? -Matt" . No worse than the words you normally use Matt | |||
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"So. You're saying that the uk is powerless to control the Irish boarder, because if they try, the Irish citizens of the European community will attack the citizens of the United kingdom, in such a violent way that they'll make the efforts of ISIS look like boy scouts? Bearing in mind the hundreds of thousands killed and displaced by ISIS... And while this war against the UK rages (because the Irish had to get their passports out) they will expect the EU to continue to fund them, and the UK not to take retaliation against an EU member state who is in a guerrilla war with it. So essentially at the moment the uk is in peace with Ireland because it's being black mailed by terrorism. Welcome to modern age politics.......... Why are you conflating terrorist groups who may revive with brexit with the Irish state and people as a whole? The simple point made is that the conflict in Ireland which goes back a very long time and has caused of death was pretty much settled by the GFA. If brexit leads to the effective abolition of the GFA, the conflict may start all over again. So the uk is being held to ransom by terrorists. You can phrase like that if you like or you could say that brexit makes a revival of Irish terrorism more likely. I am just not sure that the putative terrorists will think. "fuck, the British government have pointed out we are black mailing them, no way can we do that". I think a shrewd uk government could make it the EU's problem. It must be for the EU to keep it's member states inline. Or will we see the EU simply annex northern Ireland, taking a play from Putin's book. " Eh? So a mini civil war breaks out in part of the UK and it's somehow the EUs problem? | |||
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"So. You're saying that the uk is powerless to control the Irish boarder, because if they try, the Irish citizens of the European community will attack the citizens of the United kingdom, in such a violent way that they'll make the efforts of ISIS look like boy scouts? Bearing in mind the hundreds of thousands killed and displaced by ISIS... And while this war against the UK rages (because the Irish had to get their passports out) they will expect the EU to continue to fund them, and the UK not to take retaliation against an EU member state who is in a guerrilla war with it. So essentially at the moment the uk is in peace with Ireland because it's being black mailed by terrorism. Welcome to modern age politics.......... Why are you conflating terrorist groups who may revive with brexit with the Irish state and people as a whole? The simple point made is that the conflict in Ireland which goes back a very long time and has caused of death was pretty much settled by the GFA. If brexit leads to the effective abolition of the GFA, the conflict may start all over again. So the uk is being held to ransom by terrorists. You can phrase like that if you like or you could say that brexit makes a revival of Irish terrorism more likely. I am just not sure that the putative terrorists will think. "fuck, the British government have pointed out we are black mailing them, no way can we do that". I think a shrewd uk government could make it the EU's problem. It must be for the EU to keep it's member states inline. Or will we see the EU simply annex northern Ireland, taking a play from Putin's book. Eh? So a mini civil war breaks out in part of the UK and it's somehow the EUs problem? " Of course if we're out, and Ireland are in. Then the EU need to rein them in. | |||
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"So. You're saying that the uk is powerless to control the Irish boarder, because if they try, the Irish citizens of the European community will attack the citizens of the United kingdom, in such a violent way that they'll make the efforts of ISIS look like boy scouts? Bearing in mind the hundreds of thousands killed and displaced by ISIS... And while this war against the UK rages (because the Irish had to get their passports out) they will expect the EU to continue to fund them, and the UK not to take retaliation against an EU member state who is in a guerrilla war with it. So essentially at the moment the uk is in peace with Ireland because it's being black mailed by terrorism. Welcome to modern age politics.......... Why are you conflating terrorist groups who may revive with brexit with the Irish state and people as a whole? The simple point made is that the conflict in Ireland which goes back a very long time and has caused of death was pretty much settled by the GFA. If brexit leads to the effective abolition of the GFA, the conflict may start all over again. So the uk is being held to ransom by terrorists. You can phrase like that if you like or you could say that brexit makes a revival of Irish terrorism more likely. I am just not sure that the putative terrorists will think. "fuck, the British government have pointed out we are black mailing them, no way can we do that". I think a shrewd uk government could make it the EU's problem. It must be for the EU to keep it's member states inline. Or will we see the EU simply annex northern Ireland, taking a play from Putin's book. Eh? So a mini civil war breaks out in part of the UK and it's somehow the EUs problem? Of course if we're out, and Ireland are in. Then the EU need to rein them in. " What's it got to do with the Irish Republic. The fear is that citizens of Northern Ireland who believe a hard border negates their Irish identity will re start a violent campaign. It's a UK not an Irish Republic problem, as was the 1969-1998 conflict. | |||
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"So. You're saying that the uk is powerless to control the Irish boarder, because if they try, the Irish citizens of the European community will attack the citizens of the United kingdom, in such a violent way that they'll make the efforts of ISIS look like boy scouts? Bearing in mind the hundreds of thousands killed and displaced by ISIS... And while this war against the UK rages (because the Irish had to get their passports out) they will expect the EU to continue to fund them, and the UK not to take retaliation against an EU member state who is in a guerrilla war with it. So essentially at the moment the uk is in peace with Ireland because it's being black mailed by terrorism. Welcome to modern age politics.......... Why are you conflating terrorist groups who may revive with brexit with the Irish state and people as a whole? The simple point made is that the conflict in Ireland which goes back a very long time and has caused of death was pretty much settled by the GFA. If brexit leads to the effective abolition of the GFA, the conflict may start all over again. So the uk is being held to ransom by terrorists. You can phrase like that if you like or you could say that brexit makes a revival of Irish terrorism more likely. I am just not sure that the putative terrorists will think. "fuck, the British government have pointed out we are black mailing them, no way can we do that". I think a shrewd uk government could make it the EU's problem. It must be for the EU to keep it's member states inline. Or will we see the EU simply annex northern Ireland, taking a play from Putin's book. Eh? So a mini civil war breaks out in part of the UK and it's somehow the EUs problem? Of course if we're out, and Ireland are in. Then the EU need to rein them in. What's it got to do with the Irish Republic. The fear is that citizens of Northern Ireland who believe a hard border negates their Irish identity will re start a violent campaign. It's a UK not an Irish Republic problem, as was the 1969-1998 conflict. " Their northern Irish identity surely? | |||
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"So. You're saying that the uk is powerless to control the Irish boarder, because if they try, the Irish citizens of the European community will attack the citizens of the United kingdom, in such a violent way that they'll make the efforts of ISIS look like boy scouts? Bearing in mind the hundreds of thousands killed and displaced by ISIS... And while this war against the UK rages (because the Irish had to get their passports out) they will expect the EU to continue to fund them, and the UK not to take retaliation against an EU member state who is in a guerrilla war with it. So essentially at the moment the uk is in peace with Ireland because it's being black mailed by terrorism. Welcome to modern age politics.......... Why are you conflating terrorist groups who may revive with brexit with the Irish state and people as a whole? The simple point made is that the conflict in Ireland which goes back a very long time and has caused of death was pretty much settled by the GFA. If brexit leads to the effective abolition of the GFA, the conflict may start all over again. So the uk is being held to ransom by terrorists. You can phrase like that if you like or you could say that brexit makes a revival of Irish terrorism more likely. I am just not sure that the putative terrorists will think. "fuck, the British government have pointed out we are black mailing them, no way can we do that". I think a shrewd uk government could make it the EU's problem. It must be for the EU to keep it's member states inline. Or will we see the EU simply annex northern Ireland, taking a play from Putin's book. Eh? So a mini civil war breaks out in part of the UK and it's somehow the EUs problem? Of course if we're out, and Ireland are in. Then the EU need to rein them in. What's it got to do with the Irish Republic. The fear is that citizens of Northern Ireland who believe a hard border negates their Irish identity will re start a violent campaign. It's a UK not an Irish Republic problem, as was the 1969-1998 conflict. Their northern Irish identity surely?" Are you just pretending to be ignorant of the basics of the Northern Irish issue? | |||
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"So. You're saying that the uk is powerless to control the Irish boarder, because if they try, the Irish citizens of the European community will attack the citizens of the United kingdom, in such a violent way that they'll make the efforts of ISIS look like boy scouts? Bearing in mind the hundreds of thousands killed and displaced by ISIS... And while this war against the UK rages (because the Irish had to get their passports out) they will expect the EU to continue to fund them, and the UK not to take retaliation against an EU member state who is in a guerrilla war with it. So essentially at the moment the uk is in peace with Ireland because it's being black mailed by terrorism. Welcome to modern age politics.......... Why are you conflating terrorist groups who may revive with brexit with the Irish state and people as a whole? The simple point made is that the conflict in Ireland which goes back a very long time and has caused of death was pretty much settled by the GFA. If brexit leads to the effective abolition of the GFA, the conflict may start all over again. So the uk is being held to ransom by terrorists. You can phrase like that if you like or you could say that brexit makes a revival of Irish terrorism more likely. I am just not sure that the putative terrorists will think. "fuck, the British government have pointed out we are black mailing them, no way can we do that". I think a shrewd uk government could make it the EU's problem. It must be for the EU to keep it's member states inline. Or will we see the EU simply annex northern Ireland, taking a play from Putin's book. Eh? So a mini civil war breaks out in part of the UK and it's somehow the EUs problem? Of course if we're out, and Ireland are in. Then the EU need to rein them in. What's it got to do with the Irish Republic. The fear is that citizens of Northern Ireland who believe a hard border negates their Irish identity will re start a violent campaign. It's a UK not an Irish Republic problem, as was the 1969-1998 conflict. Their northern Irish identity surely? Are you just pretending to be ignorant of the basics of the Northern Irish issue? " Are you saying it's "ok" for political issues to be fixed with the threat of terrorism? | |||
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"So. You're saying that the uk is powerless to control the Irish boarder, because if they try, the Irish citizens of the European community will attack the citizens of the United kingdom, in such a violent way that they'll make the efforts of ISIS look like boy scouts? Bearing in mind the hundreds of thousands killed and displaced by ISIS... And while this war against the UK rages (because the Irish had to get their passports out) they will expect the EU to continue to fund them, and the UK not to take retaliation against an EU member state who is in a guerrilla war with it. So essentially at the moment the uk is in peace with Ireland because it's being black mailed by terrorism. Welcome to modern age politics.......... Why are you conflating terrorist groups who may revive with brexit with the Irish state and people as a whole? The simple point made is that the conflict in Ireland which goes back a very long time and has caused of death was pretty much settled by the GFA. If brexit leads to the effective abolition of the GFA, the conflict may start all over again. So the uk is being held to ransom by terrorists. You can phrase like that if you like or you could say that brexit makes a revival of Irish terrorism more likely. I am just not sure that the putative terrorists will think. "fuck, the British government have pointed out we are black mailing them, no way can we do that". I think a shrewd uk government could make it the EU's problem. It must be for the EU to keep it's member states inline. Or will we see the EU simply annex northern Ireland, taking a play from Putin's book. Eh? So a mini civil war breaks out in part of the UK and it's somehow the EUs problem? Of course if we're out, and Ireland are in. Then the EU need to rein them in. What's it got to do with the Irish Republic. The fear is that citizens of Northern Ireland who believe a hard border negates their Irish identity will re start a violent campaign. It's a UK not an Irish Republic problem, as was the 1969-1998 conflict. Their northern Irish identity surely? Are you just pretending to be ignorant of the basics of the Northern Irish issue? Are you saying it's "ok" for political issues to be fixed with the threat of terrorism?" Whether it's. "ok" in any abstract sense is irrelevant. It's a serious risk and and. any sensible politician would take that risk into account. | |||
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"So. You're saying that the uk is powerless to control the Irish boarder, because if they try, the Irish citizens of the European community will attack the citizens of the United kingdom, in such a violent way that they'll make the efforts of ISIS look like boy scouts? Bearing in mind the hundreds of thousands killed and displaced by ISIS... And while this war against the UK rages (because the Irish had to get their passports out) they will expect the EU to continue to fund them, and the UK not to take retaliation against an EU member state who is in a guerrilla war with it. So essentially at the moment the uk is in peace with Ireland because it's being black mailed by terrorism. Welcome to modern age politics.......... Why are you conflating terrorist groups who may revive with brexit with the Irish state and people as a whole? The simple point made is that the conflict in Ireland which goes back a very long time and has caused of death was pretty much settled by the GFA. If brexit leads to the effective abolition of the GFA, the conflict may start all over again. So the uk is being held to ransom by terrorists. You can phrase like that if you like or you could say that brexit makes a revival of Irish terrorism more likely. I am just not sure that the putative terrorists will think. "fuck, the British government have pointed out we are black mailing them, no way can we do that". I think a shrewd uk government could make it the EU's problem. It must be for the EU to keep it's member states inline. Or will we see the EU simply annex northern Ireland, taking a play from Putin's book. Eh? So a mini civil war breaks out in part of the UK and it's somehow the EUs problem? Of course if we're out, and Ireland are in. Then the EU need to rein them in. What's it got to do with the Irish Republic. The fear is that citizens of Northern Ireland who believe a hard border negates their Irish identity will re start a violent campaign. It's a UK not an Irish Republic problem, as was the 1969-1998 conflict. Their northern Irish identity surely? Are you just pretending to be ignorant of the basics of the Northern Irish issue? Are you saying it's "ok" for political issues to be fixed with the threat of terrorism? Whether it's. "ok" in any abstract sense is irrelevant. It's a serious risk and and. any sensible politician would take that risk into account. " So who wants to reinstate the hard boarder? The UK or the EU? | |||
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" What's it got to do with the Irish Republic. The fear is that citizens of Northern Ireland who believe a hard border negates their Irish identity will re start a violent campaign. It's a UK not an Irish Republic problem, as was the 1969-1998 conflict. " So if the gov stops a genuine brexit due to fears of a few murderers starting violence and that is deemed to be acceptable what will the view be if the edl or some similar group start bombing eu buildings so the uk can get independance from the EU? | |||
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"So. You're saying that the uk is powerless to control the Irish boarder, because if they try, the Irish citizens of the European community will attack the citizens of the United kingdom, in such a violent way that they'll make the efforts of ISIS look like boy scouts? Bearing in mind the hundreds of thousands killed and displaced by ISIS... And while this war against the UK rages (because the Irish had to get their passports out) they will expect the EU to continue to fund them, and the UK not to take retaliation against an EU member state who is in a guerrilla war with it. So essentially at the moment the uk is in peace with Ireland because it's being black mailed by terrorism. Welcome to modern age politics.......... Why are you conflating terrorist groups who may revive with brexit with the Irish state and people as a whole? The simple point made is that the conflict in Ireland which goes back a very long time and has caused of death was pretty much settled by the GFA. If brexit leads to the effective abolition of the GFA, the conflict may start all over again. So the uk is being held to ransom by terrorists. You can phrase like that if you like or you could say that brexit makes a revival of Irish terrorism more likely. I am just not sure that the putative terrorists will think. "fuck, the British government have pointed out we are black mailing them, no way can we do that". I think a shrewd uk government could make it the EU's problem. It must be for the EU to keep it's member states inline. Or will we see the EU simply annex northern Ireland, taking a play from Putin's book. Eh? So a mini civil war breaks out in part of the UK and it's somehow the EUs problem? Of course if we're out, and Ireland are in. Then the EU need to rein them in. What's it got to do with the Irish Republic. The fear is that citizens of Northern Ireland who believe a hard border negates their Irish identity will re start a violent campaign. It's a UK not an Irish Republic problem, as was the 1969-1998 conflict. Their northern Irish identity surely? Are you just pretending to be ignorant of the basics of the Northern Irish issue? Are you saying it's "ok" for political issues to be fixed with the threat of terrorism? Whether it's. "ok" in any abstract sense is irrelevant. It's a serious risk and and. any sensible politician would take that risk into account. So who wants to reinstate the hard boarder? The UK or the EU?" Quote from UK leave campaign We want to take control of our borders Quote from Eu We would prefer if the UK did not leave My analysis is vote leave want a hard border ! The Eu would be forced to adopt one by necessity | |||
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"Given that the good folk in the north have lived in relative peace for the last twenty years and most young adults have never experienced the troubles as their peers did I'm not sure the appetite exists for armed conflict anymore. There will always be dissidents but the only way they will recruit enough fresh faces is in the event of atrocities by the Brits or loyalists which I don't see happening. I live in the south and have family in the north and haven't heard anything to make me think other wise." Thats good to hear from someone who knows. It seems to me that its scare story put about by those who want the uk to remain, but the more they keep saying it the more there is IMVHO a risk that a nutter will do something that could risk an escalation of violence. Those who hype the scare need to be careful what they wish for | |||
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" So who wants to reinstate the hard boarder? The UK or the EU?" In the absence of any agreement, the rules of the WTO require it. Failure to put the neccesary infrastructure and controls in place will result in WTO taking UK to court. The UK does not have the time or the capacity to become independent of the EU by March 29. Planning for a no-deal exit ought to have happened on day one, since it is the only outcome in control of the UK. Anything else is not in the UK’s control to deliver. | |||
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"So. You're saying that the uk is powerless to control the Irish boarder, because if they try, the Irish citizens of the European community will attack the citizens of the United kingdom, in such a violent way that they'll make the efforts of ISIS look like boy scouts? Bearing in mind the hundreds of thousands killed and displaced by ISIS... And while this war against the UK rages (because the Irish had to get their passports out) they will expect the EU to continue to fund them, and the UK not to take retaliation against an EU member state who is in a guerrilla war with it. So essentially at the moment the uk is in peace with Ireland because it's being black mailed by terrorism. Welcome to modern age politics.......... Why are you conflating terrorist groups who may revive with brexit with the Irish state and people as a whole? The simple point made is that the conflict in Ireland which goes back a very long time and has caused of death was pretty much settled by the GFA. If brexit leads to the effective abolition of the GFA, the conflict may start all over again. So the uk is being held to ransom by terrorists. You can phrase like that if you like or you could say that brexit makes a revival of Irish terrorism more likely. I am just not sure that the putative terrorists will think. "fuck, the British government have pointed out we are black mailing them, no way can we do that". I think a shrewd uk government could make it the EU's problem. It must be for the EU to keep it's member states inline. Or will we see the EU simply annex northern Ireland, taking a play from Putin's book. Eh? So a mini civil war breaks out in part of the UK and it's somehow the EUs problem? Of course if we're out, and Ireland are in. Then the EU need to rein them in. What's it got to do with the Irish Republic. The fear is that citizens of Northern Ireland who believe a hard border negates their Irish identity will re start a violent campaign. It's a UK not an Irish Republic problem, as was the 1969-1998 conflict. Their northern Irish identity surely? Are you just pretending to be ignorant of the basics of the Northern Irish issue? Are you saying it's "ok" for political issues to be fixed with the threat of terrorism? Whether it's. "ok" in any abstract sense is irrelevant. It's a serious risk and and. any sensible politician would take that risk into account. So who wants to reinstate the hard boarder? The UK or the EU?" Neither but, without a customs agreement of some sort, under WTO terms of trade, both will have to. | |||
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"They are a member state of the EU, and because of this, we will require a proper border. Maybe a small garrison of infantrymen to help keep things moving in an orderly fashion. Some won’t like it, some will like it more. You can never please everyone on Northern Ireland. It’s always been that way." I'm in the south and I would find British troops stationed on the border a provocation. I'm sure a techy could put forward some smart technology | |||
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"They are a member state of the EU, and because of this, we will require a proper border. Maybe a small garrison of infantrymen to help keep things moving in an orderly fashion. Some won’t like it, some will like it more. You can never please everyone on Northern Ireland. It’s always been that way." Although most from both sides of the Nationalist/Unionist divide in the North seem quite happy with how the border currently works now. | |||
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"They are a member state of the EU, and because of this, we will require a proper border. Maybe a small garrison of infantrymen to help keep things moving in an orderly fashion. Some won’t like it, some will like it more. You can never please everyone on Northern Ireland. It’s always been that way." you are basically tearing up the good friday agreement, which has been the backbone of peace on the island of oreland for the last 20 years... in progress of your brexit dream | |||
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"They are a member state of the EU, and because of this, we will require a proper border. Maybe a small garrison of infantrymen to help keep things moving in an orderly fashion. Some won’t like it, some will like it more. You can never please everyone on Northern Ireland. It’s always been that way." Clueless! !!! Do you know how many troops we had in NI during the troubles? We would need almost half of the current British Army in the provence if it all started up again! | |||
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"They are a member state of the EU, and because of this, we will require a proper border. Maybe a small garrison of infantrymen to help keep things moving in an orderly fashion. Some won’t like it, some will like it more. You can never please everyone on Northern Ireland. It’s always been that way. Clueless! !!! Do you know how many troops we had in NI during the troubles? We would need almost half of the current British Army in the provence if it all started up again!" Yes but Billy Boyd will be able to flash his new bright blue passport every time he crosses. So all worth it really. | |||
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"They are a member state of the EU, and because of this, we will require a proper border. Maybe a small garrison of infantrymen to help keep things moving in an orderly fashion. Some won’t like it, some will like it more. You can never please everyone on Northern Ireland. It’s always been that way. Clueless! !!! Do you know how many troops we had in NI during the troubles? We would need almost half of the current British Army in the provence if it all started up again! Yes but Billy Boyd will be able to flash his new bright blue passport every time he crosses. So all worth it really." lol.... if billy was born in northern ireland... he is actually entitled to both sets of passports.... you know thats going to confuse everyone.... id be tempted to travel on the green one to make sure people knew i wasn't british (especially on holibobs....) | |||
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"They are a member state of the EU, and because of this, we will require a proper border. Maybe a small garrison of infantrymen to help keep things moving in an orderly fashion. Some won’t like it, some will like it more. You can never please everyone on Northern Ireland. It’s always been that way. Clueless! !!! Do you know how many troops we had in NI during the troubles? We would need almost half of the current British Army in the provence if it all started up again! Yes but Billy Boyd will be able to flash his new bright blue passport every time he crosses. So all worth it really. lol.... if billy was born in northern ireland... he is actually entitled to both sets of passports.... you know thats going to confuse everyone.... id be tempted to travel on the green one to make sure people knew i wasn't british (especially on holibobs....) "The problem is that those who weren't there all seem to make "sweeping statements"! The fact is in the 1970's the British Army had over 300,000 soldiers - today we have 78,000. The next fact is that the conflict was never "won" by either side - GFA brought peace - compromise! The Army struggled against the IRA - it was a guerrilla war not a conventional war and was un winnable with 300,000 troops so 78,000 has no chance! Finally we are an island nation we have a "few" ships we struggle to protect our selves. We have lost our empire and the sooner we realise this the better. Your living in the past! | |||
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"They are a member state of the EU, and because of this, we will require a proper border. Maybe a small garrison of infantrymen to help keep things moving in an orderly fashion. Some won’t like it, some will like it more. You can never please everyone on Northern Ireland. It’s always been that way. Clueless! !!! Do you know how many troops we had in NI during the troubles? We would need almost half of the current British Army in the provence if it all started up again! Yes but Billy Boyd will be able to flash his new bright blue passport every time he crosses. So all worth it really. lol.... if billy was born in northern ireland... he is actually entitled to both sets of passports.... you know thats going to confuse everyone.... id be tempted to travel on the green one to make sure people knew i wasn't british (especially on holibobs....)
The problem is that those who weren't there all seem to make "sweeping statements"!
The fact is in the 1970's the British Army had over 300,000 soldiers - today we have 78,000.
The next fact is that the conflict was never "won" by either side - GFA brought peace - compromise!
The Army struggled against the IRA - it was a guerrilla war not a conventional war and was un winnable with 300,000 troops so 78,000 has no chance!
Finally we are an island nation we have a "few" ships we struggle to protect our selves. We have lost our empire and the sooner we realise this the better. Your living in the past!
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"I like many I suspect didnt give much thought to the irish border when voting in the ref. It seems to me that the EU and Irish gov are blowing the issues out of all perspective. Ag imports count for a large percent of imports from Ireland but are easily traceable and dont need a border to check what is being traded,the tariffs on most other products are not huge so the UK could just let imports in withut the need for border checks as for people just let them come and go but with the proviso that chackes could be carried out at any time in the North. Anyone crossing the Irish sea needs to show ID now so any eu or non eu citizens can be stopped at the ferries as non eu citizens would be now if the rules were applied properly, as for goods simple spot checks on the mainland could be carried out with any goods that hadnt paid any tariff due being destroyed, I dont think many importers would take that risk for the low cost of tariffs on most imports, also any NI based transport companies caught hauling goods in without the proper paperwork would have their Operators licence removed. So basically the uk doesnt need a border between us and the south but the south would to comply with eu regs. No doubt there would be some small scale smuggling but that would happen anyway even if a border was imposed on our side. Now some may have reasons why that wont work but I think it could" Thats the problem, brexiteers have a opinion on everything and a knowledge of nothing. | |||
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"I like many I suspect didnt give much thought to the irish border when voting in the ref. It seems to me that the EU and Irish gov are blowing the issues out of all perspective. Ag imports count for a large percent of imports from Ireland but are easily traceable and dont need a border to check what is being traded,the tariffs on most other products are not huge so the UK could just let imports in withut the need for border checks as for people just let them come and go but with the proviso that chackes could be carried out at any time in the North. Anyone crossing the Irish sea needs to show ID now so any eu or non eu citizens can be stopped at the ferries as non eu citizens would be now if the rules were applied properly, as for goods simple spot checks on the mainland could be carried out with any goods that hadnt paid any tariff due being destroyed, I dont think many importers would take that risk for the low cost of tariffs on most imports, also any NI based transport companies caught hauling goods in without the proper paperwork would have their Operators licence removed. So basically the uk doesnt need a border between us and the south but the south would to comply with eu regs. No doubt there would be some small scale smuggling but that would happen anyway even if a border was imposed on our side. Now some may have reasons why that wont work but I think it could Thats the problem, brexiteers have a opinion on everything and a knowledge of nothing." I'll ask the remainer who thinks we won't be able to be in the European Ryder Cup team anymore, shall I? | |||
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"patrick kielty summed it up on twitter in a reply to boris johnson pefectly yesterday go and look it up....... 1. Northern Ireland is made up of a majority of Unionists (as in the Conservative and Unionist Party) and, believe it or not, a rather large minority of Nationalists (as in Irish Nationalists) 2. These Irish Nationalists don’t see themselves as British but rather inconveniently as Irish (who knew?) 3. For over 30 years we killed each other because of these differences which means Northern Ireland is nothing like Camden or Westminster. 4. The Good Friday Agreement ended that violence by the following devious magic - Unionists were guaranteed that Northern Ireland would be part of the UK until the majority voted otherwise. The Irish was border was removed and the island linked so Nationalists could pretend they were already living in a United Ireland (yes, Tony Blair did slight of hand much better than you) 5. Some of these Nationalists then accepted being part of the UK as their day to day lives were essentially Irish. 6. This cunning plan was sold to us on the basis that we were all part of the EU therefore fixation on nationality was so last World War. 7. Implementing the Good Friday Agreement was torturous (think Brexit with actual bombs, not metaphorical suicide vests) but we finally made peace. Yet 20 years later NI remains a divided society. 8. Thanks to your glorious Brexit vision Northern Ireland will become more divided as some form of economic border checks will become part of daily lives. 9. If those checks take place between NI and Ireland, the Nationalists who were once happy being part of the UK will change their mind. 10. If they take place in the Irish Sea some Unionists will be livid. However they'll still support being part of the UK (the clue is in the Unionist bit) 11. Your Brexit lies have opened a Pandora’s box for Northern Ireland. It's one reason why the majority of people in NI voted to remain in the EU (almost as if they knew more about the fragile equilibrium of their politics than you) 12. Barely mentioned before Brexit, a border poll is now inevitable thanks to your monumental ignorance. 13. When that poll is eventually held the Nationalists who were once content being part of a Northern Ireland within the UK and EU will vote to leave the UK to feel as Irish and European as they did before Brexit. 14. The poll will be much closer thanks to your Brexit folly and could easily be lost by Unionists, breaking up the UK. 15. Any break up of the Union will be your fault (a tad inconvenient as a member of the Conservative and er, Unionist party) 16. The EU is not responsible for your blundering lack of foresight. Like most people in Northern Ireland they were happy with the status quo. 17. By the time the penny drops that you can’t preserve the Union you want without the one you don’t, it will be too late. 18. You will be remembered not as the Churchillian visionary you delude yourself to be but the ignoramus who triggered the break up of the UK. 19. If there’s any justice all this will come to pass when you're Prime Minister so you can finally swim in the constitutional sewage you've created (though we all know you’ll be in Nice with your trotters up) 20. Meantime, if you’re so concerned about keeping Northern Ireland totally aligned with the rest of the UK where’s your support for our same sex marriage and women’s right to choose? Your silence is deafening." In case you didn't noticed Patrick Kielty is a comedian, hang on, actually hes got quite a lot in common with Boris | |||
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"Who apart from the DUP have a problem with the border being in the sea and northern Ireland remaining closely aligned with the eu ??? All unionists are against a border down the Irish Sea. That's the majority in N Ireland (not just the DUP). There are a lot of the conservative party that are also opposed to a sea border as it would put a rift between parts of the same country. It's also illogical. Northern Ireland does more trade with GB than with Ireland. Why make THAT more difficult? N Ireland is a drain on the UK exchequer - give it to the Republic I say Wow what a statement. Invade a country and and split it's people to such an extent that hate and mistrust on both side is the norm. Pillage it's resources and kill when they don't conform to your way of thinking and then throw them to the dogs. What an ass That was a tongue in cheek comment btw. I do however believe that Ireland should be reunited (via the ballot box)and that Brexit will hasten that process What's more disturbing is he thinks if the Southern Irish as dogs.is that the general attitude of British people then that we are dogs... The throw them to the dogs comment was made by a poster from louth/meath.. ...I know where the comment came from thank you...I was asking if that is still the attitude of English people toward Ireland and the Irish," I mite live in Louth/meath now but I was born and lived in Belfast until I was 35. So thanks for your lovely comments from are so called fab family from across the water. It's very clear how you view people especially the Irish as yous have always done. Yous voted to leave so live with it and be prepared to get on with it. | |||
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"Who apart from the DUP have a problem with the border being in the sea and northern Ireland remaining closely aligned with the eu ??? All unionists are against a border down the Irish Sea. That's the majority in N Ireland (not just the DUP). There are a lot of the conservative party that are also opposed to a sea border as it would put a rift between parts of the same country. It's also illogical. Northern Ireland does more trade with GB than with Ireland. Why make THAT more difficult? N Ireland is a drain on the UK exchequer - give it to the Republic I say Wow what a statement. Invade a country and and split it's people to such an extent that hate and mistrust on both side is the norm. Pillage it's resources and kill when they don't conform to your way of thinking and then throw them to the dogs. What an ass That was a tongue in cheek comment btw. I do however believe that Ireland should be reunited (via the ballot box)and that Brexit will hasten that process What's more disturbing is he thinks if the Southern Irish as dogs.is that the general attitude of British people then that we are dogs... The throw them to the dogs comment was made by a poster from louth/meath.. ...I know where the comment came from thank you...I was asking if that is still the attitude of English people toward Ireland and the Irish, I mite live in Louth/meath now but I was born and lived in Belfast until I was 35. So thanks for your lovely comments from are so called fab family from across the water. It's very clear how you view people especially the Irish as yous have always done. Yous voted to leave so live with it and be prepared to get on with it." Im not evcen going to reply to the first bit because Id get banned immediately as should the poster. I sincerely hope all those who support brexit repent at their leisure because the only way that the UK will ever compete with the rest of the world is to scrap workers rights and pay wages equal to china or india .... good luck with that. | |||
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"Brexit is all about reinstating barriers between people and a transfer of personal freedom from the individual to the state. Those who voted for it surely understood the implications - either you divide the Irish in two or you divide the British in two. There is no other choice." There is 1. It is what the Tories have done all over the world. Withdraw, but do it in a way that causes civil unrest, and then point at those they have just well and truly shafted and say in a snotty sneering manner (just like JRM uses when speaking to anyone he considers to be beneath him, and thats nearly everyone), 'Look what did you expect from such an uncouth bunch of savages.'. | |||
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