FabSwingers.com forum: Wage growth and employment

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Just a quote from the BBC

“Wages saw faster than expected growth in the three months to July, as they continued to outstrip rising prices.

Excluding bonuses, wages grew by 2.9%, according to figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS), well above the 2.4% inflation rate for the three-month period.

Analysts had forecast a 2.8% rise.

Unemployment continued to fall, dropping by 55,000 to 1.36 million. The unemployment rate remains at its lowest level for over 40 years.”

Yet despite this, remoaners are still claiming wages will not raise, unemployment will increase. Project fear losses again. Funny that.

This country will prosper with Brexit.

Remoaners will you please stop with Project fear and embrace Brexit in all its glory.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

One swallow doesnt a summer make.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Same old same old.

Other news papers are reporting that a third of uk business are losing money as a direct result of Brexit, and it hasn’t even happened yet.

Some good news, some bad news.

Neither of these things really tell us very much other than that the economy isn’t very stable at the moment.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Have we left the EU and the single market?

Ooops, no we haven't.

These figures reflect our performance inside the EU.

Come back and gloat when you have the figures for performance outside of the single market.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"Just a quote from the BBC

“Wages saw faster than expected growth in the three months to July, as they continued to outstrip rising prices.

Excluding bonuses, wages grew by 2.9%, according to figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS), well above the 2.4% inflation rate for the three-month period.

Analysts had forecast a 2.8% rise.

Unemployment continued to fall, dropping by 55,000 to 1.36 million. The unemployment rate remains at its lowest level for over 40 years.”

Yet despite this, remoaners are still claiming wages will not raise, unemployment will increase. Project fear losses again. Funny that.

This country will prosper with Brexit.

Remoaners will you please stop with Project fear and embrace Brexit in all its glory."

I guess you didn't actually read it then? Or look at the actual ONS figures referenced?

Yes, the number of 'unemployed' has dropped. But the number of 'employed' has stayed the same, and the number of 'economically inactive' has massively jumped.

'unemployed' is defined as those not in employment, but seeking work.

'economically inactive' is defined as those not working and not seeking or available to work

So basically what it is saying is a large number of people that were not in employment and were looking for work, have given up looking for work and are either unable to get work or unwilling to.

The report also says that the number of vacancies advertised has increased largely as well. So companies are looking for staff, but either the staff are not qualified/experience/capable/willing to do the work.

Project fear loses again? Or people just not actually reading what is in front of them?

-Matt

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Have we left the EU and the single market?

Ooops, no we haven't.

These figures reflect our performance inside the EU.

Come back and gloat when you have the figures for performance outside of the single market."

Very true, will be interesting to see the wage rate 6 to 12 months post Brexit.

That will depend on the deal we leave with.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Just a quote from the BBC

“Wages saw faster than expected growth in the three months to July, as they continued to outstrip rising prices.

Excluding bonuses, wages grew by 2.9%, according to figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS), well above the 2.4% inflation rate for the three-month period.

Analysts had forecast a 2.8% rise.

Unemployment continued to fall, dropping by 55,000 to 1.36 million. The unemployment rate remains at its lowest level for over 40 years.”

Yet despite this, remoaners are still claiming wages will not raise, unemployment will increase. Project fear losses again. Funny that.

This country will prosper with Brexit.

Remoaners will you please stop with Project fear and embrace Brexit in all its glory."

Has it happened then?

Not seen any of the details but I suppose neither has anyone..

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"Just a quote from the BBC

“Wages saw faster than expected growth in the three months to July, as they continued to outstrip rising prices.

Excluding bonuses, wages grew by 2.9%, according to figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS), well above the 2.4% inflation rate for the three-month period.

Analysts had forecast a 2.8% rise.

Unemployment continued to fall, dropping by 55,000 to 1.36 million. The unemployment rate remains at its lowest level for over 40 years.”

Yet despite this, remoaners are still claiming wages will not raise, unemployment will increase. Project fear losses again. Funny that.

This country will prosper with Brexit.

Remoaners will you please stop with Project fear and embrace Brexit in all its glory.

I guess you didn't actually read it then? Or look at the actual ONS figures referenced?

Yes, the number of 'unemployed' has dropped. But the number of 'employed' has stayed the same, and the number of 'economically inactive' has massively jumped.

'unemployed' is defined as those not in employment, but seeking work.

'economically inactive' is defined as those not working and not seeking or available to work

So basically what it is saying is a large number of people that were not in employment and were looking for work, have given up looking for work and are either unable to get work or unwilling to.

Project fear loses again? Or people just not actually reading what is in front of them?

-Matt"

And acvording to the poster above your post, all of this news is because we are still in the EU!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Have we left the EU and the single market?

Ooops, no we haven't.

These figures reflect our performance inside the EU.

Come back and gloat when you have the figures for performance outside of the single market."
As usual on the money.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"Just a quote from the BBC

“Wages saw faster than expected growth in the three months to July, as they continued to outstrip rising prices.

Excluding bonuses, wages grew by 2.9%, according to figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS), well above the 2.4% inflation rate for the three-month period.

Analysts had forecast a 2.8% rise.

Unemployment continued to fall, dropping by 55,000 to 1.36 million. The unemployment rate remains at its lowest level for over 40 years.”

Yet despite this, remoaners are still claiming wages will not raise, unemployment will increase. Project fear losses again. Funny that.

This country will prosper with Brexit.

Remoaners will you please stop with Project fear and embrace Brexit in all its glory.

I guess you didn't actually read it then? Or look at the actual ONS figures referenced?

Yes, the number of 'unemployed' has dropped. But the number of 'employed' has stayed the same, and the number of 'economically inactive' has massively jumped.

'unemployed' is defined as those not in employment, but seeking work.

'economically inactive' is defined as those not working and not seeking or available to work

So basically what it is saying is a large number of people that were not in employment and were looking for work, have given up looking for work and are either unable to get work or unwilling to.

Project fear loses again? Or people just not actually reading what is in front of them?

-Matt

And acvording to the poster above your post, all of this news is because we are still in the EU!"

No, it's not. Try reading their post again.

-Matt

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Did wages grow by 2.8%.... you might want to tell that to most public sector workers, because I am sure most of us only got 1% again...

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"Did wages grow by 2.8%.... you might want to tell that to most public sector workers, because I am sure most of us only got 1% again..."

Just to make you feel even more loved... if 2.8% is the average, and public sector only got 1% then the private sector got even higher than 2.8% increase.

-Matt

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *lbert_shlossedMan
over a year ago

Manchester

"Did wages grow by 2.8%.... you might want to tell that to most public sector workers, because I am sure most of us only got 1% again...

Just to make you feel even more loved... if 2.8% is the average, and public sector only got 1% then the private sector got even higher than 2.8% increase.

-Matt"
.

We're not communist yet, there free to get a job in the private sector.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just a quote from the BBC

“Wages saw faster than expected growth in the three months to July, as they continued to outstrip rising prices.

Excluding bonuses, wages grew by 2.9%, according to figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS), well above the 2.4% inflation rate for the three-month period.

Analysts had forecast a 2.8% rise.

Unemployment continued to fall, dropping by 55,000 to 1.36 million. The unemployment rate remains at its lowest level for over 40 years.”

Yet despite this, remoaners are still claiming wages will not raise, unemployment will increase. Project fear losses again. Funny that.

This country will prosper with Brexit.

Remoaners will you please stop with Project fear and embrace Brexit in all its glory."
Excellent post and more great news for the UK. If we leave the EU with no deal the economy will prosper even more.

Trading on WTO terms will reduce food prices by up to 8 % providing the biggest benefit to the less well off. We will have a 1.1 trillion boost to the economy over 15 years . Could things get any better.

Bury St Edmund based Greene King also reported an excellent set of results last week. Increased profits and the share price rose by 7 %.

Project Fear looks laughable now .

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Did wages grow by 2.8%.... you might want to tell that to most public sector workers, because I am sure most of us only got 1% again...

Just to make you feel even more loved... if 2.8% is the average, and public sector only got 1% then the private sector got even higher than 2.8% increase.

-Matt.

We're not communist yet, there free to get a job in the private sector."
An excellent point .

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just a quote from the BBC

“Wages saw faster than expected growth in the three months to July, as they continued to outstrip rising prices.

Excluding bonuses, wages grew by 2.9%, according to figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS), well above the 2.4% inflation rate for the three-month period.

Analysts had forecast a 2.8% rise.

Unemployment continued to fall, dropping by 55,000 to 1.36 million. The unemployment rate remains at its lowest level for over 40 years.”

Yet despite this, remoaners are still claiming wages will not raise, unemployment will increase. Project fear losses again. Funny that.

This country will prosper with Brexit.

Remoaners will you please stop with Project fear and embrace Brexit in all its glory. Excellent post and more great news for the UK. If we leave the EU with no deal the economy will prosper even more.

Bury St Edmund based Greene King also reported an excellent set of results last week. Increased profits and the share price rose by 7 %.

Project Fear looks laughable now .

Can you put that figure of £1.1 trillion on the side of bus please .Jesus titty Christ i think I might change sides if there's a trillion up for grabs...

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

You must be happy that wages are rising and unemployment’s on the fall tho bob ?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You must be happy that wages are rising and unemployment’s on the fall tho bob ?"

Self employed mate .Its all irrelevant to me .I charge what the market will allow .

I don't put up my prices based on these figures .Its based on you having a Bentley on the drive or a ford and single moms get a10% discount .

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You must be happy that wages are rising and unemployment’s on the fall tho bob ?"

Do you think these figures are representative of the whole country .Has the north east seen the same growth in wages as London.?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

But not everyone’s a decent bloke like u tho bob I just thought you would be happy at a bit of good news instead of all the doooooom lol

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"Just a quote from the BBC

“Wages saw faster than expected growth in the three months to July, as they continued to outstrip rising prices.

Excluding bonuses, wages grew by 2.9%, according to figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS), well above the 2.4% inflation rate for the three-month period.

Analysts had forecast a 2.8% rise.

Unemployment continued to fall, dropping by 55,000 to 1.36 million. The unemployment rate remains at its lowest level for over 40 years.”

Yet despite this, remoaners are still claiming wages will not raise, unemployment will increase. Project fear losses again. Funny that.

This country will prosper with Brexit.

Bury St Edmund based Greene King also reported an excellent set of results last week. Increased profits and the share price rose by 7 %.

Project Fear looks laughable now .

So you didn't bother to actually read it either, Pat? Not really a surprise I guess. I know you don't like clicking on links or reading things.

I'm curious where you got the "trading on WTO terms will give us 8% saving in food" estimate from? That certainly doesn't seem to be in line with what the government think. Certainly not what the "Brexit: Trade in Food" paper from the House of Commons on the 8th Feb indicates. It is 41 pages, but the conclusion stats with:

"The EU is the UK’s most significant trading partner. Although the Government’s intention is to agree a comprehensive free trade agreement and customs agreement with the EU, there is no guarantee that this will occur. In the event that the UK leaves the EU without a free trade agreement, UK-EU trade will proceed under World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules. Reverting to WTO tariffs will have a significant impact upon agriculture as tariffs are higher for agricultural products than for other goods and services."

So, EU food will become more expensive, and the UK wants to keep its current WTO rates we get via the EU (if we can) so I don't see how food from RoW would be any cheaper than currently, and likely more expensive as we'd lose access to all the current trade deals we have.

And the 1.1 trillion figure? Based on what? You reckon that over the next 15 years we will see an average increase in GDP of 3%, even with all the expense we are currently paying out to actually do Brexit and the fact we will still be paying into the EU budget for a few more years?

-Matt

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"But not everyone’s a decent bloke like u tho bob I just thought you would be happy at a bit of good news instead of all the doooooom lol"
Im always happy for anyone who has gotten a job recently or a pay rise.Good on them.The cost of living has gone through the roof over the last 5 years .Everyone needs a pay rise .

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

But are you happy about the wage increase and fall in unemployment tho Matt ?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

I agree 100% with you bob

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"But are you happy about the wage increase and fall in unemployment tho Matt ?"

Unemployment rate: Not based on the figures above, no. Because the figures above don't show that more people are being employed. As I said, all it shows is that those that *were* looking for work are *no longer* looking for work, and so no longer count as 'unemployed' in those statistics. They now count as 'economically inactive'. So we have the same number of people actually in work, we have more people 'economically inactive' and more job vacancies unfilled.

As for wage growth increase, yes, that is certainly good news. But please keep it in perspective, it is still below the EU average wage growth and is only 0.5% above inflation. So, yes, it is great that it is increasing, but don't pop the bubbly just yet.

-Matt

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

Ffs Matt sounds like that hurt you finishing the post on a positive lol

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"Did wages grow by 2.8%.... you might want to tell that to most public sector workers, because I am sure most of us only got 1% again..."
It is an overall average that's all

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"Ffs Matt sounds like that hurt you finishing the post on a positive lol"

lol.. this might surprise you but I am an extremely positive happy-go-lucky person in general.

-Matt

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

It as Matt you should try bringing it on here sometime lol only kidding bud

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"It as Matt you should try bringing it on here sometime lol only kidding bud "

Again, I am in most cases. It is just the topic of Brexit I feel so strongly negative about. And that is mainly because I feel that we have been hoodwinked into going down the wrong path, and as a nation to belligerent to stop and notice all the warning signs that this might not be a good idea. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on it, and I certainly don't have an issue with people with different opinions to myself (that is where we learn most after all). I just take exception to people that show a repeated inability to critically analyse any information they've seen.

-Matt

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oyce69Man
over a year ago

Driffield

"It as Matt you should try bringing it on here sometime lol only kidding bud

-Matt"

How on earth were we hoodwinked, we had a choice of in or out, the majority of people chose out.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"It as Matt you should try bringing it on here sometime lol only kidding bud

-Matt

How on earth were we hoodwinked, we had a choice of in or out, the majority of people chose out. "

Because we were told that it would be 'easy' and 'simple' and 'straightforward' and with 'no economic downside' to leave. And all that is shown to be rubbish.

Complicated issues like the NI border, or our energy supply, or aviation industry, financial passporting rights... or just about every industry were just brushed under the carpet and we were told 'Don't worry, we'll get all this money we can spend on the NHS!'.

-Matt

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

Well sounds like your the one who was hoodwinked then for believing that rubbish I don’t know anyone who thinks it is going to be easy but because something is going to be hard isn’t a good reason not to change

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Well sounds like your the one who was hoodwinked then for believing that rubbish I don’t know anyone who thinks it is going to be easy but because something is going to be hard isn’t a good reason not to change "

Maybe it was the leader of the Britain Stronger IN remain campaign Sir Stuart Rose who hoodwinked us and told us during the referendum when he was being interviewed by a House of Commons committee that wages in the UK would rise as a result of Brexit/vote to Leave. It was a remainer who said this not a Leaver. LOL

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Have you had a look at the brexit report in the House of Commons library yet centy....

It’s a proper barn burner....

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

No, see, I didn't believe it. And voted to remain as it was very clear that there were a whole bunch of complicated issues, and no doubt a whole bunch of "unknown unknowns" that we were not even aware of yet.

David Davis thought it was going to be easy. And he was the one tasked with the job. Maybe that is why he is no longer in that position.

Of course just because something is not easy, doesn't mean it shouldn't or can't be done. But to use an analogy I've used before, if I ask you "Do you want to go on holiday?" you might say "Yes". But then if you found out what I mean by "holiday" is a 72-hour coach trip to the arse-end of nowhere, you might decide that maybe you don't want to do it on balance.

-Matt

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

Aw maybe I’d say go on then deal me in I love a surprise always up for new adventures me lol but I get what your saying some ppl just can handle change or scared of change

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"Have we left the EU and the single market?

Ooops, no we haven't.

These figures reflect our performance inside the EU.

Come back and gloat when you have the figures for performance outside of the single market."

Look up 'George Osborne the short term economic impact of a vote to leave the EU' on you tube.

He talks for 9 minutes about the economic apocalypse in the 2 years following the vote to leave the EU, before we actually leave the EU. He specifically says;

House prices down by up to 18%

Wages down

500,000 to 800,000 more unemployed

A year of negative growth

A deep and profound recession

And more....

And that's all if we vote leave, not when we leave.

He also talks about inflation increasing by 2% within 2 years- which the Bank of England had predicted in November 2015, 6 months before the referendum.

He also talked about the pound losing 15% - which months before the referendum the IMF and the BoE were saying needed to devalue by up to 20% to make the UK more competitive.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"Aw maybe I’d say go on then deal me in I love a surprise always up for new adventures me lol but I get what your saying some ppl just can handle change or scared of change "

Oh, I'm up for adventure and surprises. No problem with change.

But this *isn't* just a week or two away on some random holiday. This is a decision that will affect us for the next generation. You would have at least thought that we'd have taken the time to do a bit of research on all this *before* invoking article 50.

-Matt

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Aw maybe I’d say go on then deal me in I love a surprise always up for new adventures me lol but I get what your saying some ppl just can handle change or scared of change "

I don’t think it is even that... I think that people don’t bite off their noses to spite their face, or deliberately vote to make their lives poorer as a point of principle....

I will never see the sense of people beings happy to vote on a blank cheque but resisting a vote on fact....

But there do many things that have baffled me about this entire last 2 years I could be here for years.. and the Irish passport application is in the cupboard waiting on me to fill it out if I feel the urge

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"Have we left the EU and the single market?

Ooops, no we haven't.

These figures reflect our performance inside the EU.

Come back and gloat when you have the figures for performance outside of the single market.

Look up 'George Osborne the short term economic impact of a vote to leave the EU' on you tube.

He talks for 9 minutes about the economic apocalypse in the 2 years following the vote to leave the EU, before we actually leave the EU. He specifically says;

House prices down by up to 18%

Wages down

500,000 to 800,000 more unemployed

A year of negative growth

A deep and profound recession

And more....

And that's all if we vote leave, not when we leave.

He also talks about inflation increasing by 2% within 2 years- which the Bank of England had predicted in November 2015, 6 months before the referendum.

He also talked about the pound losing 15% - which months before the referendum the IMF and the BoE were saying needed to devalue by up to 20% to make the UK more competitive."

Was that the one predicated on us triggering article 50 the day after the vote, which was what Cameron was promising?

Oh yes, of course it was.

That didn't happen. So why do you think those predictions should still stand?

-Matt

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Those desperate to paint a post possible.brexit as golden and rosy need to provide evidence for such a high risk pursuit. The Brexit moaners, Johnson et al, never had a plan just lies

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

But your just repeating the same old same old that’s been said on here for last to long yrs tho I don’t get what you and a few other party animals get out of it it’s constant negativity day in day out of the same old squad it can’t realy be doing you all any good mental health wise

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

He also talked about the pound losing 15% - which months before the referendum the IMF and the BoE were saying needed to devalue by up to 20% to make the UK more competitive."

Can we kill something once and for all with regards to the paragraph... because it does my goat!

Great for exporting.... problem is we are by a wide margin a net importer!!!

That basically cheering that for most people everything on a real life day to day basis is costing a lot more money

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

Fabio apply for the passport I’ll pay for it for gods sake if it will put a smile on yr face

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

But is it being negative or is it being realistic...

People are going round saying nothing bad will come of it... that is not being realistic

I would be far more pragmatic if the people in charge actually said okay this is what the new landscape will look like, then that would be progress

But at the moment it’s get everything and give up nothing

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"But your just repeating the same old same old that’s been said on here for last to long yrs tho I don’t get what you and a few other party animals get out of it it’s constant negativity day in day out of the same old squad it can’t realy be doing you all any good mental health wise "
Some people are glass half empty people it must be so depressing looking at life that way and worrying about stuff that hasn't happened.I'm so glad I'm a glass half full sort of guy.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Fabio apply for the passport I’ll pay for it for gods sake if it will put a smile on yr face "

I am only thinking about getting it so I can keep my Eu benefits.... the first queue of brits stuck at passport control whilst Eu people waltz on by is going to be epic

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Fabio apply for the passport I’ll pay for it for gods sake if it will put a smile on yr face

I am only thinking about getting it so I can keep my Eu benefits.... the first queue of brits stuck at passport control whilst Eu people waltz on by is going to be epic

Think you're going to be in for a huge disappointment there, as Theresa May already instructed Home secretary Sajid Javid to get on with making plans for 'UK only' queues at passport control, which will have quicker by-pass times for UK citizens. EU passports will join the 'rest of the world' queues so enjoy your time languishing in the rest of the world queue while I fly by you in the 'UK only' aisle.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

Fabio you are just like all them famous actors and pop stars in America that said if trump wins there moving to Canada but there still there you will still be in clubf next yr and you know it I’m guna come up to you and say how’s irland ttreating you Fabio lol

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Fabio apply for the passport I’ll pay for it for gods sake if it will put a smile on yr face

I am only thinking about getting it so I can keep my Eu benefits.... the first queue of brits stuck at passport control whilst Eu people waltz on by is going to be epic

See... you are talking about the UK end..... I am talking about the other end!!! When the Eu passport holders have all those fast pass agreements with the country’s and the brits will be “rest of the world” queue...

But at least the passport will be blue

Also for some reason the UK want to keep the free travel area agreement with Ireland, which means I am swanning into the UK regardless

There is method to the madness of me getting an Irish passport you know

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

So yr doing all that to save half hr at an airport lol

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *rMrsWestMidsCouple
over a year ago

Dudley

"But your just repeating the same old same old that’s been said on here for last to long yrs tho I don’t get what you and a few other party animals get out of it it’s constant negativity day in day out of the same old squad it can’t realy be doing you all any good mental health wise Some people are glass half empty people it must be so depressing looking at life that way and worrying about stuff that hasn't happened.I'm so glad I'm a glass half full sort of guy."

Their glasses aren't even half empty more like bone dry!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *rMrsWestMidsCouple
over a year ago

Dudley

Ok if you are an attention seeker though!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *rMrsWestMidsCouple
over a year ago

Dudley

"Ffs Matt sounds like that hurt you finishing the post on a positive lol

lol.. this might surprise you but I am an extremely positive happy-go-lucky person in general.

-Matt"

I find that very hard to believe, you always sound so negative or get yourself all worked up!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

Just listening to the news...

So the Tories who said they HAD to take the full pay rise given to mps by the independent pay review body have just rejected the pay rise a similar body says the police should get. Maybe as an earlier poster suggest all the police should resign on mass and go to work in the private sector. Maybe NHS staff, civil servants and local government workers should do the same? Or maybe they should all totally withdraw their labour (no emergency cover) and see how the maybot and her dysfunctional government and their corporate and super rich backers cope?

What does everyone think?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just listening to the news...

What does everyone think?"

Not suprised they (MP's) look after themselves first! The police got 2% -1% less than recommend so not much. How much does an MP get ? How much does a policeman get? Big difference and not fair!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Fabio apply for the passport I’ll pay for it for gods sake if it will put a smile on yr face

I am only thinking about getting it so I can keep my Eu benefits.... the first queue of brits stuck at passport control whilst Eu people waltz on by is going to be epic

But at least the passport will be blue

Also for some reason the UK want to keep the free travel area agreement with Ireland, which means I am swanning into the UK regardless

There is method to the madness of me getting an Irish passport you know

So what you're basically saying is you'll be quicker going through the EU end with your EU passport and I'll be quicker going through the UK end with my UK passport. Guess that makes us even then, haha.

And on your point about Ireland and the free travel area agreement, will be a fully reciprocal bilateral arrangement, which means UK passport holders will be swanning into Republic of Ireland in the same Isle as you, as you say you will be swanning into the UK regardless. Guess that makes us even again then, lol.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"Ffs Matt sounds like that hurt you finishing the post on a positive lol

lol.. this might surprise you but I am an extremely positive happy-go-lucky person in general.

-Matt

I find that very hard to believe, you always sound so negative or get yourself all worked up!

Why do you see seeing the clusterfuck that is Brexit for what it is as being negative? If I punched you on the nose, and you asked me why, would that be you being negative? Be positive! Enjoy the punch in the nose! Why won’t you get behind it?

-Matt

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *rMrsWestMidsCouple
over a year ago

Dudley

"Ffs Matt sounds like that hurt you finishing the post on a positive lol

lol.. this might surprise you but I am an extremely positive happy-go-lucky person in general.

-Matt

I find that very hard to believe, you always sound so negative or get yourself all worked up!

-Matt"

Matt if you punched me on the nose believe me I wouldn't be asking you why you had done it!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Have we left the EU and the single market?

Ooops, no we haven't.

These figures reflect our performance inside the EU.

Come back and gloat when you have the figures for performance outside of the single market."

Hang on, you PODs are constantly going on about the “bad things” that are happening now because of the referendum result. But as soon as something positive is posted, you come back with this.

After BREXIT I intend to come back many times to gloat about our success as an independent island nation.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *rMrsWestMidsCouple
over a year ago

Dudley

"Just listening to the news...

What does everyone think?"

It sounds like another one of your daft ideas Will! Presumably all these rich people will have private healthcare etc!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"Just listening to the news...

What does everyone think?"

The Police Renumeration Review Body is not independent. It is part of the Police Federation, basically the Police Union. They asked for 3% and got 2%.

MPs of ALL parties cannot refuse their pay rise. The independent review body awards it, and it is paid, whether the MP wants it or not. Their rise was 1.8%.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"It sounds like another one of your daft ideas Will! Presumably all these rich people will have private healthcare etc!

Yep, one of my daft ideas...

A bit like no government can rule without at least the tacit cooperation of a significant part of the population, so the idea that we can't do anything to change the establishment is bullshit.

By the way if the NHS, police, fire service and local government all completely withdrew their labour no government would survive more than about a week, and before you tell me I am wrong you may want to think about what every city in the country would be like after 7 days of no medical care of any description, no refuse collection, no law enforcement, no fire service and no disposal of dead bodies.

The only thing that allows governments to act the way they do is the apathy of the people they rule over.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"Have we left the EU and the single market?

Ooops, no we haven't.

These figures reflect our performance inside the EU.

Come back and gloat when you have the figures for performance outside of the single market.

Hang on, you PODs are constantly going on about the “bad things” that are happening now because of the referendum result. But as soon as something positive is posted, you come back with this.

After BREXIT I intend to come back many times to gloat about our success as an independent island nation."

Good! I really hope you do.

-Matt

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"Have we left the EU and the single market?

Ooops, no we haven't.

These figures reflect our performance inside the EU.

Come back and gloat when you have the figures for performance outside of the single market.

Look up 'George Osborne the short term economic impact of a vote to leave the EU' on you tube.

He talks for 9 minutes about the economic apocalypse in the 2 years following the vote to leave the EU, before we actually leave the EU. He specifically says;

House prices down by up to 18%

Wages down

500,000 to 800,000 more unemployed

A year of negative growth

A deep and profound recession

And more....

And that's all if we vote leave, not when we leave.

He also talks about inflation increasing by 2% within 2 years- which the Bank of England had predicted in November 2015, 6 months before the referendum.

He also talked about the pound losing 15% - which months before the referendum the IMF and the BoE were saying needed to devalue by up to 20% to make the UK more competitive.

Was that the one predicated on us triggering article 50 the day after the vote, which was what Cameron was promising?

Oh yes, of course it was.

That didn't happen. So why do you think those predictions should still stand?

-Matt"

He spoke about the immediate effect of the vote to leave, in 'the two years preceding us leaving the EU'.

Guess what, those two years are nearly up, and fuck all of what he predicted has happened, apart from what the BoE said 6 months begore the referendum.

So he lied....whatever way you look at it.....to scare people into voting remain.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

But is it being negative or is it being realistic...

People are going round saying nothing bad will come of it... that is not being realistic

I would be far more pragmatic if the people in charge actually said okay this is what the new landscape will look like, then that would be progress

But at the moment it’s get everything and give up nothing "

And other people, yourself included, are going round saying nothing good will come of it....that is not being realistic.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"It sounds like another one of your daft ideas Will! Presumably all these rich people will have private healthcare etc!

Yep, one of my daft ideas...

A bit like no government can rule without at least the tacit cooperation of a significant part of the population, so the idea that we can't do anything to change the establishment is bullshit.

The only thing that allows governments to act the way they do is the apathy of the people they rule over. "

We already had this scenario in the 1970's, when militant unions went on mass strike and we had the 4 day week, power cuts and bins not being collected, it never brought the government down then so I don't think it would now either. As you are a proud Corbyn supporter I'm not in the least bit surprised you suggest this course of action though, both you and Corbyn want to take us back to the days of mass strikes, this is what you'll all get folks if you vote a Corbyn Labour government in.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *andS_GlasgowCouple
over a year ago

Giffnock

Brexit is coming so lets embrace it and the new opportunities it brings !

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"We already had this scenario in the 1970's, when militant unions went on mass strike and we had the 4 day week, power cuts and bins not being collected, it never brought the government down then so I don't think it would now either. As you are a proud Corbyn supporter I'm not in the least bit surprised you suggest this course of action though, both you and Corbyn want to take us back to the days of mass strikes, this is what you'll all get folks if you vote a Corbyn Labour government in. "

Again Centy you are totally wrong.

Firstly we never had a 4 day week, we had a 3 day week that was caused by the oil crisis of 73 and the only reason that did not bring the government down was because the country was united in its desire to survive and the unions and government worked together to make sure the country survived.

Secondly, there was no nationwide coordinated withdrawal of public service labour. There were individual strikes of fire, ambulance and prison officers where military was used to to keep a skeleton service running (I was deployed on a green goddess and as a guard in Durham jail), and the bin men and mortuary attendants went on strike in Glasgow and within a week the jocks were deployed to deal with the health risks caused by that strike, and the police never withdrew their labour. In fact the largest strike in this country in modern times was the 9 day general strike of 1926 and less than 3 million (including over a million miners who had been locked out by the pit owners) of the 20 odd million worker in the country withdrew their labour but after 9 days causing such a panic that the government of the day got working class forelock tugging tories like you to volunteer to work for free in order to break the strike.

Fact is if everyone just refused to leave home until the government resigned and called a general election then the government would be gone in 4 days because by the 5th day they would be looking at a violent revolution.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

Again Centy you are totally wrong.

The 3 day week was a consequence of the Miners strike! Ted Heath brought in pay restraint measures to curb rampant inflation, the miners wanted 35% and a collision course was set.

As the UK was virtually dependent on coal to generate electricity in those days, the overtime ban and then the strike led to the Government to introduce what was in effect rationing of electricity. I remember doing my homework by candlelight!

Of course, this Union power led to the next Conservative Government of Mrs Thatcher to go head to head with the Miners.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Again Centy you are totally wrong.

The 3 day week was a consequence of the Miners strike! Ted Heath brought in pay restraint measures to curb rampant inflation, the miners wanted 35% and a collision course was set.

Of course, this Union power led to the next Conservative Government of Mrs Thatcher to go head to head with the Miners."

Don't mention Mrs Thatcher when responding to a thread by a certain forum user!

It would be interesting to hear if that same forum user supports the then actions of the NUM and it's vice president Mick McGahey.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Brexit is coming so lets embrace it and the new opportunities it brings !"

Such as?

Actually I’d be interested in what brexiteers think the positive points will be. We hear constantly all the negative. What is good?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

"Brexit is coming so lets embrace it and the new opportunities it brings !

Such as?

Actually I’d be interested in what brexiteers think the positive points will be. We hear constantly all the negative. What is good? "

Control,money and no US of Europe are the benefits that I see we can have, the later is the reason I voted leave

1 control. We can do what suits the UK rather than have to fudge a solution that often suits no one, when the EEC was 15 members it was bad enough but now its 28 and growing its very hard to make quick decisions, add in the commission and eu parliament and its a nightmare, a very costly nightmare

2 Money we wont be paying in 350 m a week, yes I know we get some of that back, but we can decide how its spent, this cost is only going to go one way, the rebate is shrinking and with things like the EU army etc on the horizon costs will rocket.

3 The aim of those at the top is a united states of europe, as juncker said after the vote, the answer to this vote is more europe not less, how blind can they be, this is the reason I voted leave, the area covered by the eu is just too big to be governed by a federal system, we have too much history and much of it violent, the cultural differences are vast,the work ethic diverse etc etc.

I have said that I believe we should have an eu wide vote, a choice between a eec style trading block or a federal state, let the people decide one way or another instead of this drip drip step by step to a destination no one in europe has voted for

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *lbert_shlossedMan
over a year ago

Manchester

The main positive I see is the control of immigration.

Without that the whole thing is pointless.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"Brexit is coming so lets embrace it and the new opportunities it brings !

Such as?

Actually I’d be interested in what brexiteers think the positive points will be. We hear constantly all the negative. What is good?

Control,money and no US of Europe are the benefits that I see we can have, the later is the reason I voted leave

Wow. I think this is the first time, I've actually seen a leave supporter actually put forward a credible set of reasons for wanting to leave. Thanks!

I agree with much of what you say in theory, but how do you think it works in practice?

For example, point 1, control... how many times has the UK actually voted against what was the 'winning' argument in any of the cases we vote on? Something like 2% isn't it? Do you feel that outweighs the other benefits of membership? Whilst I believe that figure has increased in latter years, do you really feel it is significant? I know there has been a lot of tabloid headlines claiming we have been prevented doing things, the vast majority turning out to be bullshit.

2) Money... and what of the cost of replicating all the services and institutions we will no longer have access to when we leave? Or will have to pay separate membership to to use? It is a bit like quibbling that you pay £30 / month for tv+phone+internet package from your cable provider, even though you never use phone... but the reality is if you bought tv and internet on their own for separate suppliers it would cost more than in the bundle from one.

3) The original plan was an 'ever closer political union' or something to that effect, which I really don't see the problem of. And it is not like this is some new news coming about. Again, scare stories in the tabloids about an 'EU army' don't help things.

I do agree with "we should have an eu wide vote, a choice between a eec style trading block or a federal state" but the referendum was a blunt choice of "in" or "out". As I've said before, the ideal thing would have been the government going "Oh? That was much closer than we thought, maybe we should use this advisory non-legally binding referendum we just had to now investigate what people *actually* want and put some options on the table". But our government is not that competent, and the public have been whipped up into a foaming-at-the-mouth frenzy who chant "will of the people" at any attempt to try and work out what the will of the people actually is.

-Matt

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"The main positive I see is the control of immigration.

Without that the whole thing is pointless."

So, by that logic, do you think that the fact we have not bothered to actually use the immigration controls we have already, means that brexit itself is pointless?

-Matt

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"Don't mention Mrs Thatcher when responding to a thread by a certain forum user!

It would be interesting to hear if that same forum user supports the then actions of the NUM and it's vice president Mick McGahey."

I threw a party when the witch died. I could say a lot more about how she sent 6000 of us to fight a war in the Falklands so she could stay in power or how as soon as she was targeted by the provos she started secret talks with them on condition that they not target her again or how she ordered police to attack miners during the strike of 48/5 and then had the film footage edited to make it look like the miners started the violence. But hey you don't want to hear any of that.

As for the bad old days before Thatcher, I would return to them in a second. A time where most were too poor to own 2 cars but every family could live on a single wage, ambulances took minutes not hours to respond to 999 calls, prescriptions dental treatment and eye care were free NHS services, unemployment was around 500,000 and there were no ZHC's, education was free and most students got maintenance grants. And of course there was virtually no homelessness.

Yep, such a bad time, the 70's before Thatcher, I wonder how we ever coped.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

Wow. I think this is the first time, I've actually seen a leave supporter actually put forward a credible set of reasons for wanting to leave. Thanks!

I agree with much of what you say in theory, but how do you think it works in practice?

-Matt"

First of all I agree that the uk hasnt used powers over immigration that it could have and it has gone along with some things I dont think it should have, now the big question is will it change when we leave, to be honest I have my doubts unless the voters hold it to account, thats both parties not just one that has been at fault. Over population in the uk is the problem not who those people are IMVHO, it is affecting the quality of life.

As far as money goes I believe we can save huge amounts from removing red tape but its the big growth area and the cat is out of the bag, in every walk of life there is an army of clipboard carrying parasites checking up on those that do the work yet havent a clue themselves, the point is we can choose how we spend our money, I accept that there will be cases that it costs more than it does now, but we can and must drive down the costs of government and that will be in our hands and the government of the day wont be able to hide.

The EU army is not a scare story it has been shown time and again that its in the "big" plan.

HIndsight is a wonderful thing and perhaps both the eu and HMG should have done things differently before and after the vote, DC came back from brussels with a peace in our time piece of paper that wasnt worth wipping your arse with, we could see through it after the vote perhps he should have gone back to the eu and said right think again boys or we will leave, perhaps things could have changed then and we could have had a second vote, but we are where we are and again I wait with interest for your view on why the EU seems happy to see their citizens lose out for the political aims of juncker et al.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *agermeisterMan
over a year ago

Leeds

I've not had a wage rise for 8 years.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

"Don't mention Mrs Thatcher when responding to a thread by a certain forum user!

It would be interesting to hear if that same forum user supports the then actions of the NUM and it's vice president Mick McGahey.

Yep, such a bad time, the 70's before Thatcher, I wonder how we ever coped."

MT sent the forces to the Falklands to defend british subjects, at a great cost to some and Im not minimising the anguish of those that lost family, but if you join the army etc surely that is the risk you entail. Do you have the same views about blair sending the troops to Iraq on a lie?

If you said you held a perty when MLK was killed or when Nelson madela died you would be held up as a racist, just because you disliked her gives you no excuse to glorify her death, it destroys any argument you have about her leadership,

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Population growth has boosted economic growth. It has made austerity less painful, by increasing total employment and tax revenues. pressure on services is eased by immigrants filling roles in the NHS etc.

The opposite of over population is depopulation and when this has occurred the really dark times happen .

So the scaremongers who fear new immigrants should be careful what they wish for ,because a country with an ageing population and a desire to restrict population growth is a recipe for disaster .

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

" Population growth has boosted economic growth. It has made austerity less painful, by increasing total employment and tax revenues. pressure on services is eased by immigrants filling roles in the NHS etc.

The opposite of over population is depopulation and when this has occurred the really dark times happen .

So the scaremongers who fear new immigrants should be careful what they wish for ,because a country with an ageing population and a desire to restrict population growth is a recipe for disaster .

I thought you claim to be a green party supporter and support green policies? the biggest problem the world faces is popultaion growth we cant go on growing and using up resources, we have to stabilise and then reduce numbers or everyone dies, yes economically that is a hard circle to square but if we dont then our grandchildren are doomed,

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Brexit is coming so lets embrace it and the new opportunities it brings !

Such as?

Actually I’d be interested in what brexiteers think the positive points will be. We hear constantly all the negative. What is good?

Control,money and no US of Europe are the benefits that I see we can have, the later is the reason I voted leave

Wow. I think this is the first time, I've actually seen a leave supporter actually put forward a credible set of reasons for wanting to leave. Thanks!

I agree with much of what you say in theory, but how do you think it works in practice?

-Matt"

Interesting answers. For me some of those things are subjective. I don’t think immigration is a problem, I think it should be managed better which is nothing to do with the EU.

All reports (aside from the odd one here and there), indicate that we will be worse off outside the EU. This debate seems to rage on, but it does seem fairly certain that we won’t have as much cash either as a nation or as individuals.

Working more closely with Europe. For sure this is subjective too. I personally like it. But plenty of people don’t.

Anyway thank you for answering.

I voted remain but there are plenty of things I don’t like about the EU. But the things I don’t like are rarely mentioned. Such as th EU paying huge sums of money to Turkey so they keep refugees from the Middle East at bay.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The opposite of over population is depopulation and when this has occurred the really dark times happen .

So the scaremongers who fear new immigrants should be careful what they wish for ,because a country with an ageing population and a desire to restrict population growth is a recipe for disaster .

I see you don't disagree with any of my points and realise you will impoverish this country without population growth .

Regarding the environment . If everyone gave up meat you could double the global population and still be green.There are many factors involved in climate change.

If you want to effect climate change then reduce the population in the first world.

If undeveloped countries consumed at the same rate as the US , four complete planets the size of the Earth would be required. ... Americans constitute 5% of the world's population but consume 24% of the world's energy.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

The opposite of over population is depopulation and when this has occurred the really dark times happen .

So the scaremongers who fear new immigrants should be careful what they wish for ,because a country with an ageing population and a desire to restrict population growth is a recipe for disaster .

"
so we’re you happy woth the numbers coming here every yr then a 3 times the population of the town I live in every yr coming here did you think that was manageable bob

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

Interesting answers. For me some of those things are subjective. I don’t think immigration is a problem, I think it should be managed better which is nothing to do with the EU.

Working more closely with Europe. For sure this is subjective too. I personally like it. But plenty of people don’t.

Anyway thank you for answering.

Working closely is ok, but do you want to be part of a US of E where we are governed from somewhere thats not the uk and in reality have no say in our own future and once its formed only civil war could end it ? That is the slippery slope we are on and I dont believe that ther is many anywhere in the EU that want it, its why I say lets have an EU wide vote and get it sorted one way or another, if a federal state is approved, I wont like it but would accept that given an honest debate its what the majority like

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The opposite of over population is depopulation and when this has occurred the really dark times happen .

So the scaremongers who fear new immigrants should be careful what they wish for ,because a country with an ageing population and a desire to restrict population growth is a recipe for disaster .

so we’re you happy woth the numbers coming here every yr then a 3 times the population of the town I live in every yr coming here did you think that was manageable bob "

Everything is manageable if there are services capable to deal with it .Its an issue with the goverment investing in services .The ageing population requires more nurses and more doctors because they are living longer .Its not an age issue it's a planning and service issue .Build more schools and hospitals with the extra revenue from the extra people .

However if you reduce revenue by reducing the population you'll end with poorer services .

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Interesting answers. For me some of those things are subjective. I don’t think immigration is a problem, I think it should be managed better which is nothing to do with the EU.

Working more closely with Europe. For sure this is subjective too. I personally like it. But plenty of people don’t.

Anyway thank you for answering.

I don’t see that is the way it’s going, there doesn’t seem to be any evidence for that. But even if it was. I wouldn’t be as worried as you. I don’t trust our government, at all. I don’t especially trust the EU. But I like plenty of the environment protection, workers protection, food safely standards etc etc that they have us legislate for. The current government does nothing for anyone but itself.

For sure this is just a difference of opinion. Which is really good for me to hear. Most of th debates here descend into catchphrases and name calling.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

The opposite of over population is depopulation and when this has occurred the really dark times happen .

So the scaremongers who fear new immigrants should be careful what they wish for ,because a country with an ageing population and a desire to restrict population growth is a recipe for disaster .

so we’re you happy woth the numbers coming here every yr then a 3 times the population of the town I live in every yr coming here did you think that was manageable bob

However if you reduce revenue by reducing the population you'll end with poorer services ."

With the way you use name calling against those with different views I shouldnt really expect much common sense , but do you really believe that by having a rapidly growing poplulation is the answer. Your answer to an ageing demographic is to have more young people to look after them, so tell me what happens when all those young folks get old and need looking after yet more babies to grow and look after all the extra people, sometimes it helps to think through problems not just look for the easy answer, of all the ridiculous arguements over brexit that is the most dangerous long term idea I have ever heard, we need less people not more, economically that will be hard but not as hard as dealing with ever increasing numbers

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The opposite of over population is depopulation and when this has occurred the really dark times happen .

So the scaremongers who fear new immigrants should be careful what they wish for ,because a country with an ageing population and a desire to restrict population growth is a recipe for disaster .

so we’re you happy woth the numbers coming here every yr then a 3 times the population of the town I live in every yr coming here did you think that was manageable bob

However if you reduce revenue by reducing the population you'll end with poorer services .

I didn't expect you to understand and if you want more old people and less young people then that's the most absurd statement you've ever made .

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

The opposite of over population is depopulation and when this has occurred the really dark times happen .

So the scaremongers who fear new immigrants should be careful what they wish for ,because a country with an ageing population and a desire to restrict population growth is a recipe for disaster .

so we’re you happy woth the numbers coming here every yr then a 3 times the population of the town I live in every yr coming here did you think that was manageable bob

However if you reduce revenue by reducing the population you'll end with poorer services ."
with the vast numbers coming in and them starting families it just makes the problem even bigger further down the line the ageIng population will just be bigger in yrs to come then what build even more ?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The opposite of over population is depopulation and when this has occurred the really dark times happen .

So the scaremongers who fear new immigrants should be careful what they wish for ,because a country with an ageing population and a desire to restrict population growth is a recipe for disaster .

so we’re you happy woth the numbers coming here every yr then a 3 times the population of the town I live in every yr coming here did you think that was manageable bob

However if you reduce revenue by reducing the population you'll end with poorer services . with the vast numbers coming in and them starting families it just makes the problem even bigger further down the line the ageIng population will just be bigger in yrs to come then what build even more ?"

If there were enough school places and enough nurses and doctors people wouldn't complain .Its like the motorways .They are relic from the 50s and 60s built to deal with 1960 and 70s traffic . Today they are crammed back to back .Its poor planning that causes the problem not the cars.

We should be investing in more schools and hospitals and better roads because the population is only going up and if you reduce the workforce you'll have less money to spend .Its basic economics.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

Every population rises we all know that but with 300odd ppl arriving a yr we cud never build fast enough to cope that was the problem most ppl are for immagratiin but not the amount and speed we had you say we have an ageIng problem now imagine 30/40 yrs from now if it stayed how it was no amount of money would be enough sorry 300odd thousand lol

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The opposite of over population is depopulation and when this has occurred the really dark times happen .

So the scaremongers who fear new immigrants should be careful what they wish for ,because a country with an ageing population and a desire to restrict population growth is a recipe for disaster .

so we’re you happy woth the numbers coming here every yr then a 3 times the population of the town I live in every yr coming here did you think that was manageable bob

There’s an assumption here migrant workers stay here in old age.

If we don’t kick the can down the road we have a very real issue now. The short term solution which involves no can kicking is tax increases. The reaction to the dementia tax probably means this is not an easy solution. An increasing workforce at least helps phase this in. Or allow other options such as more personal responsibility. Or a change in culture. But I fear this is not an easy solution either.

The trouble with brexit is it masks the underlying issues we face. Indeed it may accelerate some of them. And these will be magnified for the poorer parts of society.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

The opposite of over population is depopulation and when this has occurred the really dark times happen .

So the scaremongers who fear new immigrants should be careful what they wish for ,because a country with an ageing population and a desire to restrict population growth is a recipe for disaster .

so we’re you happy woth the numbers coming here every yr then a 3 times the population of the town I live in every yr coming here did you think that was manageable bob

We should be investing in more schools and hospitals and better roads because the population is only going up and if you reduce the workforce you'll have less money to spend .Its basic economics."

You can't just keep on brining in more and more people every year and building more and more houses and other infrastructure on the green belt to accommodate them, it's unsustainable. You say it boosts the economy but a high GDP doesn't always equate to a better quality of life, the economy grew during the late 90's and into the 00's with Mass immigration but I'd say the quality of life in the UK went down during those years.

The way forward now is not ever increasing numbers of people through immigration but technology solutions instead. Take fruit pickers as an example now robots are being developed to pick various types of fruit, we don't need an ever increasing number of people to pick fruit, robots will do it in ever increasing numbers as the years go by. Technology solutions will also apply to many other areas and sectors of work in the near future, we already have robotic brick laying machines on building sites that can work in all weather's without rest, or tea or fag breaks, technology is the way forward not more mass immigration.

The wealth created by technological solutions and robots in future will benefit the economy and the quality of life for people in a better way too, just yesterday one of the leading figures at the unions conference was saying people could realistically look at working a 4 day week instead of 5 in the near future as robots and technology takeover working tasks, people will be able to enjoy more leisure time.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"MT sent the forces to the Falklands to defend british subjects, at a great cost to some and Im not minimising the anguish of those that lost family, but if you join the army etc surely that is the risk you entail. Do you have the same views about blair sending the troops to Iraq on a lie?

Clearly you do not understand the perfidy of Thatcher. She was told by our security services, the Americans and the Chileans that if she scrapped HMS Endurance the Argentinians would take it as an invitation to invade, she went ahead and withdrew the ship. She was then told that if any move was made against the the Argentinian scrap metal expedition to South Georgia then the Argentinians would invade the Falklands. She ordered the Falklands garrison of 50 men to send a patrol to investigate. Therefore like it or not she caused the Falklands war when her predecessors on a number of occasions had sent ships to the Falklands when they had received similar warnings thus deterring the Argentinians.

On the night of the Brighton bombing while she was giving her version of Churchill's 'we will never surrender' speech she had already ordered the immediate opening of secret talks with the Provos with only 1 condition, that there be no more attacks on the Tory leadership while the talks proceeded. However at the same time she was quite willing to order UK special forces to murder unarmed provo suspects in Gibraltar.

The woman was a witch!

AS for my service, I understood the risks when I signed up and would still be willing to die to defend my country. But I find it abhorrent that any politician would consider starting an avoidable war to get re-elected! That is what Thatcher did!

I also find it totally repugnant that she so cynically donned the Churchillian mantle while secretly begging her enemy for a truce and then ordered British troops to commit what were in effect war crimes. But then the Tory establishment have form for doing stuff like this going back centuries.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *lbert_shlossedMan
over a year ago

Manchester

"The main positive I see is the control of immigration.

Without that the whole thing is pointless.

So, by that logic, do you think that the fact we have not bothered to actually use the immigration controls we have already, means that brexit itself is pointless?

-Matt"
.

Quite possibly, every party for decades has been beholden to big business.

It's probably time for that to change and frankly political parties are looking for votes so who knows.

I wouldn't hold my breath though.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *lbert_shlossedMan
over a year ago

Manchester

The opposite of over population is depopulation and when this has occurred the really dark times happen .

So the scaremongers who fear new immigrants should be careful what they wish for ,because a country with an ageing population and a desire to restrict population growth is a recipe for disaster .

"
.

That's just informed rubbish to be honest.

GDP pretty much always grows through population growth hence why the West has chased that policy, GDP per capita is all that really matters when asking are WE wealthier, that's trickier as it requires good long term policy and strategy, along with tight fiscal and monetary control of services, or you can just let unlimited immigration take place drive wages down and turn everybody into cheap labour while making business unproductive as it simply relies on that flow instead of innovating and investment, they've been doing it that long big business is now the drug addict of plentiful cheap labour.

All of this is quite easily seen when you look at Japan for instance who has had depopulation for decades.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Informed rubbish ..I like that .Basicaly true but not what you want to hear I'm guessing

I would post a link from the Japan times on its population crisis but it's probably not approved .Here is part of it .

According to “Population projections for Japan: 2016 to 2065” by the National Institute of Population and Social Security Research, the nation’s population in 2065 will be 88.1 million — almost two-thirds of what it is today. The aging of the population will have progressed so much that people 75 or older will account for 25.5 percent of the total. It is estimated that the number of people over the age of 100 will reach 547,000 — a tenfold increase from the 54,000 centenarians in 2015.

Optimists argue that 88 million was the very same level of population that Japan had 65 years ago — and that we don’t need to be that pessimistic about our future prospects. However, the situation surrounding the population’s aging in the coming decades is completely different from the past. Even today, it is extraordinary compared with other developed countries. Japan will be entering unknown and unprecedented territory as a society with a shrinking population.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *lbert_shlossedMan
over a year ago

Manchester

I missed the un out!

Globalists in the West have been banging on about Japans debt crises and ageing population crises since the 80s.

Last time I was there the country seemed just fine still.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I missed the un out!

Globalists in the West have been banging on about Japans debt crises and ageing population crises since the 80s.

Last time I was there the country seemed just fine still."

A Freudian slip ,it happens to the best of us .

The Japanese sperm count has also fallen off the cliff a double whammy .Japan better start building robots fast to replace the workforce or there are monumental shifts ahead.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *lbert_shlossedMan
over a year ago

Manchester

"I missed the un out!

Globalists in the West have been banging on about Japans debt crises and ageing population crises since the 80s.

Last time I was there the country seemed just fine still.

A Freudian slip ,it happens to the best of us .

The Japanese sperm count has also fallen off the cliff a double whammy .Japan better start building robots fast to replace the workforce or there are monumental shifts ahead."
.

You should get out there and get shagging, I'm pretty sure there's Japanese women desperate to shag some white cuck liberal builder

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Don't mention Mrs Thatcher when responding to a thread by a certain forum user!

It would be interesting to hear if that same forum user supports the then actions of the NUM and it's vice president Mick McGahey.

Yep, such a bad time, the 70's before Thatcher, I wonder how we ever coped."

Thatcher was not great, but compared more than favourably to those both before and after her. Indeed she was the best of a bad bunch.

How we coped? By borrowing vast sums of money from foreign banks.

As for the Falkland conflict, it is the only one we have been involved in during my lifetime that we had reasons of our own to fight in.

The militant NUM members started the crap during the strike of 84/5. Even throwing shit from motorway flyovers onto traffic below. I saw them on Brighton in 84, begging outside supermarkets. Lol, I used to go in, just so I could tell them to fuck off on the eay out.

She lived a long life, and you threw a party upon her death. Well as long as you enjoyed your little soirée, the rest of us just got on with life.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

You can't just keep on brining in more and more people every year and building more and more houses and other infrastructure on the green belt to accommodate them, it's unsustainable. "

Golf courses cover twice as much land in the UK as housing does.

In total, some 6 per cent of the land mass has been built.

That leaves 94 per cent of the UK that is undeveloped.

There is plenty room to grow.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

The woman was a witch!

No mention of blair then, trouble with double standards they come back to bite you

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

You can't just keep on brining in more and more people every year and building more and more houses and other infrastructure on the green belt to accommodate them, it's unsustainable.

Golf courses cover twice as much land in the UK as housing does.

In total, some 6 per cent of the land mass has been built.

That leaves 94 per cent of the UK that is undeveloped.

There is plenty room to grow.

Think you might need to rethink that first figure, but I agree in reality not that much of the UK has been built on, IMVHO thats not really the problem, its traffic that is making life a misery in many areas, the problem is we have become accustomed to driving and in many areas public transport is very sparse, maybe we could do more to encourage firms to use mini buses to collect workers or vastly encourage people to work from home to reduce rush hour traffic

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"No mention of blair then, trouble with double standards they come back to bite you"

I have no love of Blair, in fact everyone who takes any notice knows I think he was and is a Tory plant. But I will give him one thing regardless of the lies he told to make GW2 more palatable he was as honest as any politician can be when it comes to the 'special relationship' (which I think is worthless shite). Remember he is the one who said that Britain has to be willing to pay the blood price whenever the US calls for our aid in order to retain the special relationship. Like him or it or not in that one statement Blair told the country the bare truth, regardless of reason if the US requires it we have to shed blood. This has been the way since the end of WW2 and only 1 PM has been able partially protect our armed forces and country from the machinations of the USA and resist US demands that we join one of their wars, that was Harold Wilson and the war was Vietnam.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 13/09/18 08:51:00]

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You can't just keep on brining in more and more people every year and building more and more houses and other infrastructure on the green belt to accommodate them, it's unsustainable.

Golf courses cover twice as much land in the UK as housing does.

In total, some 6 per cent of the land mass has been built.

That leaves 94 per cent of the UK that is undeveloped.

There is plenty room to grow.

The golf course story was a shock tactic by the housing charity Shelter as the figure for the area occupied by housing was arrived at by only considering the physical footprint of residential buildings, ignoring gardens, garages, roads, pavements, paths etc.

Maybe a solution for the UK housing problem is to build houses on all the golf courses?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No mention of blair then, trouble with double standards they come back to bite you

I have no love of Blair, in fact everyone who takes any notice knows I think he was and is a Tory plant."

Tony Blair was/is a Tory plant?

I'm intrigued! What is your reasoning for this and do you have any evidence to back up your claim?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"Tony Blair was/is a Tory plant?

I'm intrigued! What is your reasoning for this and do you have any evidence to back up your claim?"

Other than the fact that he adopted and expanded nearly every Tory economic policy thus allowing the official Tory party to move even further too the right to 'keep clear blue water between the parties' I would have to say no I have no 'evidence'. But if it looks like a Tory and implements Tory policies then in my mind it is a Tory.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There are over 66,000 hectares of brownfield sites in England, and around a third of these are in the high-growth areas of greater London, the South East and East. There is plenty of room in the UK .Theresa May wants construction of new homes to rise to 300,000 a year to tackle a shortage of housing.

More houses more jobs more revenue .

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Tony Blair was/is a Tory plant?

I'm intrigued! What is your reasoning for this and do you have any evidence to back up your claim?

So in effect the minimum wage and the Good Friday Agreement can be attributed to a Tory, albeit a plant?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Tony Blair was/is a Tory plant?

I'm intrigued! What is your reasoning for this and do you have any evidence to back up your claim?

And if, as you say, he still is a Tory plant, why is he one of the most outspoken supporters of the EU and a very vocal critic of Brexit?

Is that all a façade, an act?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There are over 66,000 hectares of brownfield sites in England, and around a third of these are in the high-growth areas of greater London, the South East and East. There is plenty of room in the UK .Theresa May wants construction of new homes to rise to 300,000 a year to tackle a shortage of housing.

More houses more jobs more revenue .

300,000 houses or 300,000 homes that provide a quality place to live?

A small office small block next to the A12 packs has plans drawn up for 60 "apartments".

At first glance this seems a very good re-use of a redundant office building, until you look at the detail.

According to the plans, the smallest singles are just 13 sq metres – that’s a room just a fraction bigger than 3.6 metres by 3.6 metres – while the smallest doubles are 14.7 sq metres.

(The government’s own space standard – known as the “nationally described space standard” – states that the minimum floor area for a new one-bedroom one-person home (including conversions) is 37 sq metres, and for a one-bed two person home it is 50 sq metres.)

The studios are offered as self-contained accommodation. Residents are expected to live (sit, cook, eat, sleep and bathe) in one room with a small shower, WC and basin in the corner. No other space is available to them apart from the corridors, stairwells and lifts. Half [of the flats] face north and receive no sunlight, and half face south and receive full sun.

It is right next to the A12, with all the pollution and traffic noise that that entails. There is no green space, no play area.

This might be an extreme case but developers are getting away with it.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"So in effect the minimum wage and the Good Friday Agreement can be attributed to a Tory, albeit a plant?"

Yep, but before you start crowing it would be advisable to remember that the minimum wage and the explosion in zero hours contracts have not been the force for good and great leap forward in workers rights that they seemed to be at first. In fact the minimum wage has become the maximum wage for many and more are being forced onto minimum wage zero hours contracts and into the 'false gig economy' every day. So as I said copied and expanded Tory economic policy.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

. . .its traffic that is making life a misery in many areas, the problem is we have become accustomed to driving and in many areas public transport is very sparse . . ."

Two key factors in that debate:

a) prosperity - the number of cars per head of population has grown in line with wealth

b) the average size of cars is sooooooo much bigger now. I saw an old Fiat 500 the other day. It was tiny. The old Mini, too. Small cars now are the size of saloons 30 years ago.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So in effect the minimum wage and the Good Friday Agreement can be attributed to a Tory, albeit a plant?

Interesting point.

And the GFA?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"Interesting point.

And the GFA?"

Well to the best of my knowledge although Blair is credited with the GFA his main contribution was to move the secret talks (that had been taking place between the Tories and the Republicans since the Brighton bombing in 84 and especially since the Downing St motor attack in 91) into open talks involving all parties. So in my view Blairs contribution is a convenient fiction. Like the one hat had the majority believing that China and the USSR were communist when they clearly were not.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Interesting point.

And the GFA?

Oh! This has taken an unexpected twist.

What were China & the USSR? Were they Tory plants too?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

"Tony Blair was/is a Tory plant?

I'm intrigued! What is your reasoning for this and do you have any evidence to back up your claim?

What politician do you like then ?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"Oh! This has taken an unexpected twist.

What were China & the USSR? Were they Tory plants too?"

No they were single party states with state controlled planned capitalist economies. Which is not the same as communism or even socialism. But by using indoctrination to fix a false equivalence in the minds of the majority living in private capitalist economies then the greatest risk to capitalism which are socialism and social democracy can be defeated by getting populations to vote against their own self interest.

The establishment and the ruling classes round the world are adept at manipulating populations. Why would anyone think that we are not manipulated in the same way?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"What politician do you like then ?"

I liked Ted Heath and Tony Ben, and I like JC. They all perused the interests of us, the little people.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

"Oh! This has taken an unexpected twist.

What were China & the USSR? Were they Tory plants too?

The establishment and the ruling classes round the world are adept at manipulating populations. Why would anyone think that we are not manipulated in the same way?"

I think you need to have a lie down in a dark room or stop taking the tablets, they obviously arent doing any good old boy

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

"What politician do you like then ?

I liked Ted Heath and Tony Ben, and I like JC. They all perused the interests of us, the little people. "

I thought it was only a rumour ted heath liked little people ?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

Post new Message to Thread