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"Maybe... but still in economic terms shitter than what we currently have. “But most economic modelling in this area shows that the potential benefits of leaving the EU with no deal over the longer term do not make up for the higher trade barriers with the EU, given its importance to the UK.” From the parliament research briefing they just finally released on the impact of a no deal. The thing that David Davis was asked about after May claimed a no deal would be better than a bad deal. But Davis has to admit that they hadn’t actually looked at the impact of no deal and so May was talking bollocks. -Matt" Time will tell. Nobody knows but there are many guestimates on all sides! | |||
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"Maybe... but still in economic terms shitter than what we currently have. “But most economic modelling in this area shows that the potential benefits of leaving the EU with no deal over the longer term do not make up for the higher trade barriers with the EU, given its importance to the UK.” From the parliament research briefing they just finally released on the impact of a no deal. The thing that David Davis was asked about after May claimed a no deal would be better than a bad deal. But Davis has to admit that they hadn’t actually looked at the impact of no deal and so May was talking bollocks. -Matt Time will tell. Nobody knows but there are many guestimates on all sides! " Oh, yes, there are lots of guesstimates, and no-one has a crystal ball. But when your own government’s analysis that ‘no deal’ would put us worse off, and seems to be the most likely outcome... it doesn’t look too rosy. -Matt | |||
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"Maybe... but still in economic terms shitter than what we currently have. “But most economic modelling in this area shows that the potential benefits of leaving the EU with no deal over the longer term do not make up for the higher trade barriers with the EU, given its importance to the UK.” From the parliament research briefing they just finally released on the impact of a no deal. The thing that David Davis was asked about after May claimed a no deal would be better than a bad deal. But Davis has to admit that they hadn’t actually looked at the impact of no deal and so May was talking bollocks. -Matt Time will tell. Nobody knows but there are many guestimates on all sides! Oh, yes, there are lots of guesstimates, and no-one has a crystal ball. But when your own government’s analysis that ‘no deal’ would put us worse off, and seems to be the most likely outcome... it doesn’t look too rosy. -Matt" Alternative facts Matt you know they have all been done by remainers, infidels and traitors - surely! | |||
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"Maybe... but still in economic terms shitter than what we currently have. “But most economic modelling in this area shows that the potential benefits of leaving the EU with no deal over the longer term do not make up for the higher trade barriers with the EU, given its importance to the UK.” From the parliament research briefing they just finally released on the impact of a no deal. The thing that David Davis was asked about after May claimed a no deal would be better than a bad deal. But Davis has to admit that they hadn’t actually looked at the impact of no deal and so May was talking bollocks. -Matt Time will tell. Nobody knows but there are many guestimates on all sides! Oh, yes, there are lots of guesstimates, and no-one has a crystal ball. But when your own government’s analysis that ‘no deal’ would put us worse off, and seems to be the most likely outcome... it doesn’t look too rosy. -Matt Alternative facts Matt you know they have all been done by remainers, infidels and traitors - surely!" ‘Remoaners’ you mean, surely? -Matt | |||
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"Do you really believe if we crash out on a no deal that planes won't be flying over Europe or to and from Europe. Get real." Well, the airspace controls is an international treaty outside the EU, so flying over won’t be an issue. But legally, yes, there will be a very real issue as unless we can negotiate something then our airlines won’t be able to fly between two 3rd party EU countries for example. And our aircraft won’t have recognised saftety certifications so won’t be insured to fly. We will no longer be a party to the US/EU open skies arrangement. -Matt | |||
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"Do you really believe if we crash out on a no deal that planes won't be flying over Europe or to and from Europe. Get real." You are the one that needs to get real. If we crash out with no deal we will not have an internationally recognised civil aircraft regulator, therefore no aircraft entering UK airspace will be insured, therefore no civil aircraft will enter UK airspace. There have been quite a few instances over the last 20/30 years when insurance companies have withdrawn or restricted civil aircraft cover from airspace and the civil aviation industry has been mighty quick to change routes and cancel or alter flights into or through that airspace. Why do so many people think that we will be treated any differently? | |||
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"How do other non EU countries fly over EU air space then? Having a no deal Brexit will be fair on trading with every country and we not putting EU first and we can set our own tariff to trade in. How do other countries manage and cope being without the EU. " They do it by negotiating agreements I have access to that airspace. -Matt | |||
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"Well i will hazard a guess that countries like Spain Will want to get it sorted pretty quick.ln the papers and on the news out here its all how can we get British tourism back in July as Spain a whole received 2.2 million British visitors 22 per cent of the country's total a slump of 5.6 percent on the same month last year.Sorry but I can't see them being happy losing that lot let alone the hotel's and restaurants. " Well, they can want and want until they are blue in the face. If hardline brextremists get there way and there is no deal, then planes will not be flying. -Matt | |||
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"Are you still guna come on here if there’s planes in the sky and we don’t have a deal I’m just asking not having a pop " Of course I will. You seem to have some perverse view that I don’t want things to go smoothly. -Matt | |||
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"No I don’t it just reminds me of the ppl who predict the worlds end on a certain day then wake up and think fuck must of got me day wrong it must be next yr If yr right then you can gloat but if yr wrong you will look a tad silly lol " Oh, I’ll be more than happy if I wake up and find that Brexit has been cancelled. -Matt | |||
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"You serious believe that airlines won't have a say in this all the money they make from us and people coming to the UK it will be business as normal with or without a deal and they start doing business like they do with any other non EU country " Of course they have a say in it. That is why EasyJet have just spent £10 million to set up a legal base in the EU to be able to keep operating. A cost us passengers will ultimately foot. But whilst the airline do have a say, is anyone listening. Pretty much every industry has said they don’t want Brexit and yet it is going ahead. And we have people clamouring for a ‘no deal’ Brexit despite the chaos it will cause. -Matt | |||
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"Sure I can see the government's of Spain,Italy,Portugal and Greece going along with that.What you seem to forget brexit affects millions of Europeans jobs and prosperity too and thier governments are not going to jeopardize thier welfare just to please junker." No I don’t forget that at all. But if some on here get their way of a ‘no deal’ Brexit then there will be no deal. And that harms everyone. | |||
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"No I don’t it just reminds me of the ppl who predict the worlds end on a certain day then wake up and think fuck must of got me day wrong it must be next yr If yr right then you can gloat but if yr wrong you will look a tad silly lol Oh, I’ll be more than happy if I wake up and find that Brexit has been cancelled. -Matt" Very democratic of you!  | |||
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"No I don’t it just reminds me of the ppl who predict the worlds end on a certain day then wake up and think fuck must of got me day wrong it must be next yr If yr right then you can gloat but if yr wrong you will look a tad silly lol " yes and the millennium bug where planes were going to fall from the sky at midnight.  | |||
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"No I don’t it just reminds me of the ppl who predict the worlds end on a certain day then wake up and think fuck must of got me day wrong it must be next yr If yr right then you can gloat but if yr wrong you will look a tad silly lol Oh, I’ll be more than happy if I wake up and find that Brexit has been cancelled. -Matt Very democratic of you! "I somehow think you were trying to be sarcastic. However if you were that would mean you have a very tenuous understanding of democracy. -Matt | |||
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"No I don’t it just reminds me of the ppl who predict the worlds end on a certain day then wake up and think fuck must of got me day wrong it must be next yr If yr right then you can gloat but if yr wrong you will look a tad silly lol yes and the millennium bug where planes were going to fall from the sky at midnight. "Unlike Brexit though, there was a lot of work done on preventing the millennium bug from causing havoc. And there was a lot longer planning to get it fixed, not some rush-job like we have now. People in the most part (maybe yourself excepted) realised it would be an issue and actually worked to sort it out. With Brexit we have too many people sticking their heads in the sand and pretending all is good. -Matt | |||
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"No I don’t it just reminds me of the ppl who predict the worlds end on a certain day then wake up and think fuck must of got me day wrong it must be next yr If yr right then you can gloat but if yr wrong you will look a tad silly lol Oh, I’ll be more than happy if I wake up and find that Brexit has been cancelled. -Matt Very democratic of you!
I somehow think you were trying to be sarcastic. However if you were that would mean you have a very tenuous understanding of democracy.
-Matt"It's amazing how people's interpretation of democracy changes once they are on the losing side of a vote! | |||
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"No I don’t it just reminds me of the ppl who predict the worlds end on a certain day then wake up and think fuck must of got me day wrong it must be next yr If yr right then you can gloat but if yr wrong you will look a tad silly lol Oh, I’ll be more than happy if I wake up and find that Brexit has been cancelled. -Matt Very democratic of you!
I somehow think you were trying to be sarcastic. However if you were that would mean you have a very tenuous understanding of democracy.
-Matt
It's amazing how people's interpretation of democracy changes once they are on the losing side of a vote! "Why is that? Are you suggesting that democracy means ‘make a decision, and then stick to it regardless of what people want?’ If so, why did we have a referendum. We had one decades ago. -Matt | |||
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"How do other non EU countries fly over EU air space then? Having a no deal Brexit will be fair on trading with every country and we not putting EU first and we can set our own tariff to trade in. How do other countries manage and cope being without the EU. " You really have not understood the issue... ALL airspace that is overflown and ALL countries that have international civil airports or operate civil airlines have an internationally recognised civil aviation regulatory body. If we leave the EU without a deal we will not, therefore our civil airlines will not be able to enter ANY other countries airspace (that is why Ryan Air and others are heading for the door and setting up new HQ's outside the UK) nor will any work carried out on civil aircraft in the UK be certified, nor will any aerospace parts made in the UK be certified as airworthy, nor will any person who is NDT(aerospace) certified in the UK be qualified to sign off on any work carried out on civil aircraft. The list of stuff that goes out the window regarding civil aviation is staggering when looked at closely. In fact it is staggering I do not believe that those saying we can walk away without a deal have the slightest clue about the realities of the subject unless they are deliberately attempting to turn the UK into a failed economy and state (and I do think one or 2 are just Machiavellian enough to do that). Fact is we must have a deal now, and if the Maybot and Tories had been serious about walking away they would have started setting up the regulatory authorities needed to run an advanced economy 2 years ago. I note they still haven't! But still claim they can walk away and everything will be honkidory! | |||
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"No I don’t it just reminds me of the ppl who predict the worlds end on a certain day then wake up and think fuck must of got me day wrong it must be next yr If yr right then you can gloat but if yr wrong you will look a tad silly lol Oh, I’ll be more than happy if I wake up and find that Brexit has been cancelled. -Matt Very democratic of you!
I somehow think you were trying to be sarcastic. However if you were that would mean you have a very tenuous understanding of democracy.
-Matt
It's amazing how people's interpretation of democracy changes once they are on the losing side of a vote!
Why is that? Are you suggesting that democracy means ‘make a decision, and then stick to it regardless of what people want?’ If so, why did we have a referendum. We had one decades ago.
-Matt"Was the first referendum acted up on? We joined the common market so that's a yes then. The second referendum hasn't been acted up on yet and if you remember under the rules of the vote more people to leave, so however you see it that's what the people wanted! | |||
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"No I don’t it just reminds me of the ppl who predict the worlds end on a certain day then wake up and think fuck must of got me day wrong it must be next yr If yr right then you can gloat but if yr wrong you will look a tad silly lol Oh, I’ll be more than happy if I wake up and find that Brexit has been cancelled. -Matt Very democratic of you!
I somehow think you were trying to be sarcastic. However if you were that would mean you have a very tenuous understanding of democracy.
-Matt
It's amazing how people's interpretation of democracy changes once they are on the losing side of a vote!
Why is that? Are you suggesting that democracy means ‘make a decision, and then stick to it regardless of what people want?’ If so, why did we have a referendum. We had one decades ago.
-Matt
Was the first referendum acted up on? We joined the common market so that's a yes then.
The second referendum hasn't been acted up on yet and if you remember under the rules of the vote more people to leave, so however you see it that's what the people wanted! "And yet, if Brexit were cancelled, my happiness at that fact is supposedly 'undemocratic' in your mind. Just because I chose to vote differently to you. You know the *entire* point of democracy. The fact that I *can* vote differently to you. Yet, you are saying that because I don't want what you want, that somehow I am 'undemocratic'? No. Sorry. You don't understand democracy. -Matt | |||
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"No I don’t it just reminds me of the ppl who predict the worlds end on a certain day then wake up and think fuck must of got me day wrong it must be next yr If yr right then you can gloat but if yr wrong you will look a tad silly lol Oh, I’ll be more than happy if I wake up and find that Brexit has been cancelled. -Matt Very democratic of you!
I somehow think you were trying to be sarcastic. However if you were that would mean you have a very tenuous understanding of democracy.
-Matt
It's amazing how people's interpretation of democracy changes once they are on the losing side of a vote!
Why is that? Are you suggesting that democracy means ‘make a decision, and then stick to it regardless of what people want?’ If so, why did we have a referendum. We had one decades ago.
-Matt
Was the first referendum acted up on? We joined the common market so that's a yes then.
The second referendum hasn't been acted up on yet and if you remember under the rules of the vote more people to leave, so however you see it that's what the people wanted!
And yet, if Brexit were cancelled, my happiness at that fact is supposedly 'undemocratic' in your mind. Just because I chose to vote differently to you. You know the *entire* point of democracy. The fact that I *can* vote differently to you. Yet, you are saying that because I don't want what you want, that somehow I am 'undemocratic'?
No.
Sorry.
You don't understand democracy.
-Matt"I know perfectly well what democracy is, I am happy for you to vote anyway you want, but unfortunately you can't always have what you wish for! Stamping your feet and getting all worked up won't change the result. | |||
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"No I don’t it just reminds me of the ppl who predict the worlds end on a certain day then wake up and think fuck must of got me day wrong it must be next yr If yr right then you can gloat but if yr wrong you will look a tad silly lol Oh, I’ll be more than happy if I wake up and find that Brexit has been cancelled. -Matt Very democratic of you!
I somehow think you were trying to be sarcastic. However if you were that would mean you have a very tenuous understanding of democracy.
-Matt
It's amazing how people's interpretation of democracy changes once they are on the losing side of a vote!
Why is that? Are you suggesting that democracy means ‘make a decision, and then stick to it regardless of what people want?’ If so, why did we have a referendum. We had one decades ago.
-Matt
Was the first referendum acted up on? We joined the common market so that's a yes then.
The second referendum hasn't been acted up on yet and if you remember under the rules of the vote more people to leave, so however you see it that's what the people wanted!
And yet, if Brexit were cancelled, my happiness at that fact is supposedly 'undemocratic' in your mind. Just because I chose to vote differently to you. You know the *entire* point of democracy. The fact that I *can* vote differently to you. Yet, you are saying that because I don't want what you want, that somehow I am 'undemocratic'?
No.
Sorry.
You don't understand democracy.
-Matt
I know perfectly well what democracy is, I am happy for you to vote anyway you want, but unfortunately you can't always have what you wish for!
Stamping your feet and getting all worked up won't change the result. "I got that song in my head now. You can’t always get what you want. Ha ha! | |||
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"You serious believe that airlines won't have a say in this all the money they make from us and people coming to the UK it will be business as normal with or without a deal and they start doing business like they do with any other non EU country " Here's my wild guess UK airlines will indeed have a lot of influence If on brexit day there is no arrangement there will be no flight there cannot be Thus it is of course certain that an arrangement will be forced and rushed through regarding air space and travel However there will be a cost involved and its the UK who will be forced to pay whatever is demanded of it One thing in my mind is certain costs to UK airline passengers will increase purely because of brexit | |||
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"Oh, and related to my question in another thread about aviation, they have this to say: “For the International Air Transport Association (IATA), the aviation deadline is earlier than the Brexit deadline of 29 March 2019. But would planes actually stop flying between the UK and the EU27 in the event of no deal? The Government believes it might be possible to agree a ‘bare bones’ aviation agreement in the event of a no-deal scenario.” So, they are saying that in the event of a no deal they might be able to negotiate a deal. Uh huh. And link (not displayed above) to the proceeds in which Davis admitted they had not done any study of no deal, but thought various things ‘might be possible’. Not exactly confidence inspiring. Again, this being the guy who said this deal would all be done and dusted by now, and the same guy that didn’t understand how the EU works and thought we could negotiate a trade deal with Germany separate to the rest of the EU. You ‘no deal’ supporters starting to see what a clusterfuck this is likely to be? -Matt" If this was considered to be a serious problem shares in the budget airlines would have tanked out . I took the accounts of Dart Group to read in order to pass time on a flight recently . They were not concerned about not bring able to fly. A few pieces of paper are hardly going to prevent flights taking off and landing . Luckily we have a very capable government who are doing all the work for us . | |||
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"You serious believe that airlines won't have a say in this all the money they make from us and people coming to the UK it will be business as normal with or without a deal and they start doing business like they do with any other non EU country Of course they have a say in it. That is why EasyJet have just spent £10 million to set up a legal base in the EU to be able to keep operating. A cost us passengers will ultimately foot. But whilst the airline do have a say, is anyone listening. Pretty much every industry has said they don’t want Brexit and yet it is going ahead. And we have people clamouring for a ‘no deal’ Brexit despite the chaos it will cause. -Matt" The costs to which you refer may be bourne by shareholders and not passengers . In any event there will be substantial savings from being able to scrap the EU compensation rules for passengers . It is farcical that someone can pay £30 for an airline ticket yet be entitled to compensation of 250 Euros if a flight is delayed for more than 3 hours. The compensation should be restricted to a percentage of the ticket value. | |||
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"Oh, and related to my question in another thread about aviation, they have this to say: “For the International Air Transport Association (IATA), the aviation deadline is earlier than the Brexit deadline of 29 March 2019. But would planes actually stop flying between the UK and the EU27 in the event of no deal? The Government believes it might be possible to agree a ‘bare bones’ aviation agreement in the event of a no-deal scenario.” So, they are saying that in the event of a no deal they might be able to negotiate a deal. Uh huh. And link (not displayed above) to the proceeds in which Davis admitted they had not done any study of no deal, but thought various things ‘might be possible’. Not exactly confidence inspiring. Again, this being the guy who said this deal would all be done and dusted by now, and the same guy that didn’t understand how the EU works and thought we could negotiate a trade deal with Germany separate to the rest of the EU. You ‘no deal’ supporters starting to see what a clusterfuck this is likely to be? -Matt If this was considered to be a serious problem shares in the budget airlines would have tanked out . I took the accounts of Dart Group to read in order to pass time on a flight recently . They were not concerned about not bring able to fly. A few pieces of paper are hardly going to prevent flights taking off and landing . Luckily we have a very capable government who are doing all the work for us . " A few pieces of paper?! A very capable government?! Oh, Pat, I really would love to come visit your cloud cuckoo land sometime! -Matt | |||
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"You serious believe that airlines won't have a say in this all the money they make from us and people coming to the UK it will be business as normal with or without a deal and they start doing business like they do with any other non EU country Of course they have a say in it. That is why EasyJet have just spent £10 million to set up a legal base in the EU to be able to keep operating. A cost us passengers will ultimately foot. But whilst the airline do have a say, is anyone listening. Pretty much every industry has said they don’t want Brexit and yet it is going ahead. And we have people clamouring for a ‘no deal’ Brexit despite the chaos it will cause. -Matt The costs to which you refer may be bourne by shareholders and not passengers . In any event there will be substantial savings from being able to scrap the EU compensation rules for passengers . It is farcical that someone can pay £30 for an airline ticket yet be entitled to compensation of 250 Euros if a flight is delayed for more than 3 hours. The compensation should be restricted to a percentage of the ticket value. " Why should the compensation be restricted to the ticket value? If I am delayed on a flight and as a result miss a connecting flight, or miss the event I’m flying for, or get a day less on my holiday, then why should I not get recompense commensurate with that? Again, I really don’t see why you are so happy that as a consumer, we will have less protection after Brexit than before it. -Matt | |||
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"Sure I can see the government's of Spain,Italy,Portugal and Greece going along with that.What you seem to forget brexit affects millions of Europeans jobs and prosperity too and thier governments are not going to jeopardize thier welfare just to please junker." Unlikely they are going to do it just to please the Uk either, this argument of the others will still want to sell us cars etc is true of course but what leave they fail to say is that with the uk wage packet down , there will be less & less looking to buy. | |||
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"Sure I can see the government's of Spain,Italy,Portugal and Greece going along with that.What you seem to forget brexit affects millions of Europeans jobs and prosperity too and thier governments are not going to jeopardize thier welfare just to please junker. Unlikely they are going to do it just to please the Uk either, this argument of the others will still want to sell us cars etc is true of course but what leave they fail to say is that with the uk wage packet down , there will be less & less looking to buy. " I am not saying they will do it please the UK I am saying they will do it because thier tourist trade will be affected.Already Spain is getting worried it's on the news and in thier papers regularly and that's not even due to brexit.The rise of people going to Egypt and Tunisia again plus the low lira in Turkey.I don't think they would be happy losing millions of tourists every month because uk carriers can't fly. | |||
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"There’s a case to say EU carriers (Ryanair?) could fill the gap while the easyJet are grounded .... they’d be okay with that !" Not quite as simple as that... An EU airline must be over 50 per cent EU owned. Once the UK leaves, with its present shareholder structure, Ryanair would fall short of this proportion. | |||
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"More scare tactics ...fed up with all the crap ....lets get out and move on ..we will be fine ....let the Germans run the eu as they always have ....unelected twats" .  | |||
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"More scare tactics ...fed up with all the crap ....lets get out and move on ..we will be fine ....let the Germans run the eu as they always have ....unelected twats" You sound defeated where's the bulldog spirit .You are prepared to give Europe to the Hun and roll over and play dead . | |||
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"More scare tactics ...fed up with all the crap ....lets get out and move on ..we will be fine ....let the Germans run the eu as they always have ....unelected twats" Scare tactics? This is the government’s own report on what a no deal will look like. Who exactly do you think they are trying to scare? -Matt | |||
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"There’s a case to say EU carriers (Ryanair?) could fill the gap while the easyJet are grounded .... they’d be okay with that ! Not quite as simple as that... An EU airline must be over 50 per cent EU owned. Once the UK leaves, with its present shareholder structure, Ryanair would fall short of this proportion." may have been a bad example. Iberia ? I’m not familiar with the airlines shareholding’s ! | |||
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"More scare tactics ...fed up with all the crap ....lets get out and move on ..we will be fine ....let the Germans run the eu as they always have ....unelected twats" From the House of Commons Library, the source of impartial guidance for all MPs? Lololololololol | |||
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"The nuclear industry is in the same boat - there is no way the new power stations at Hinkley, Bradwell, Sizewell, Wylfa and Moorside can be built without access to the EU labour market. The UK does not have the skills." Don’t worry, the leavers have already said that visas and whatever won’t be a problem and they’ll be handing them out in boxes of cornflakes to anyone who wants one. -Matt | |||
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"The nuclear industry is in the same boat - there is no way the new power stations at Hinkley, Bradwell, Sizewell, Wylfa and Moorside can be built without access to the EU labour market. The UK does not have the skills. Don’t worry, the leavers have already said that visas and whatever won’t be a problem and they’ll be handing them out in boxes of cornflakes to anyone who wants one. -Matt" Can you provide links to where a leaver has said they’ll be handing visas out in boxes of cornflakes to anyone who wants one? | |||
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"The nuclear industry is in the same boat - there is no way the new power stations at Hinkley, Bradwell, Sizewell, Wylfa and Moorside can be built without access to the EU labour market. The UK does not have the skills. Don’t worry, the leavers have already said that visas and whatever won’t be a problem and they’ll be handing them out in boxes of cornflakes to anyone who wants one. -Matt Can you provide links to where a leaver has said they’ll be handing visas out in boxes of cornflakes to anyone who wants one?" No, of course not. But I can provide you links to leave voting politicians saying this will be the easiest deal in history to make. I can point you to leave voters on here who seem to think that getting a visa won't be a problem and they can't conceive how one would be refused to someone. -Matt | |||
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"The nuclear industry is in the same boat - there is no way the new power stations at Hinkley, Bradwell, Sizewell, Wylfa and Moorside can be built without access to the EU labour market. The UK does not have the skills. Don’t worry, the leavers have already said that visas and whatever won’t be a problem and they’ll be handing them out in boxes of cornflakes to anyone who wants one. -Matt Can you provide links to where a leaver has said they’ll be handing visas out in boxes of cornflakes to anyone who wants one? No, of course not. But I can provide you links to leave voting politicians saying this will be the easiest deal in history to make. I can point you to leave voters on here who seem to think that getting a visa won't be a problem and they can't conceive how one would be refused to someone. -Matt" I though brexit means brexit and we won't be giving out visas like sweeties .If it's going to be easy to get visas for us to go to Europe surely it's going to be easy for those Eastern Europeans guys to get visas to come here and if this is the case what the fuck was controlling our borders about. | |||
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"The nuclear industry is in the same boat - there is no way the new power stations at Hinkley, Bradwell, Sizewell, Wylfa and Moorside can be built without access to the EU labour market. The UK does not have the skills. Don’t worry, the leavers have already said that visas and whatever won’t be a problem and they’ll be handing them out in boxes of cornflakes to anyone who wants one. -Matt Can you provide links to where a leaver has said they’ll be handing visas out in boxes of cornflakes to anyone who wants one? No, of course not. But I can provide you links to leave voting politicians saying this will be the easiest deal in history to make. I can point you to leave voters on here who seem to think that getting a visa won't be a problem and they can't conceive how one would be refused to someone. -Matt" So basically it was a lie and you made it up to suit your agenda. Isn't that what you said about the slogan on the infamous red bus? | |||
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"The nuclear industry is in the same boat - there is no way the new power stations at Hinkley, Bradwell, Sizewell, Wylfa and Moorside can be built without access to the EU labour market. The UK does not have the skills. Don’t worry, the leavers have already said that visas and whatever won’t be a problem and they’ll be handing them out in boxes of cornflakes to anyone who wants one. -Matt Can you provide links to where a leaver has said they’ll be handing visas out in boxes of cornflakes to anyone who wants one? No, of course not. But I can provide you links to leave voting politicians saying this will be the easiest deal in history to make. I can point you to leave voters on here who seem to think that getting a visa won't be a problem and they can't conceive how one would be refused to someone. -Matt I though brexit means brexit and we won't be giving out visas like sweeties .If it's going to be easy to get visas for us to go to Europe surely it's going to be easy for those Eastern Europeans guys to get visas to come here and if this is the case what the fuck was controlling our borders about. "This is basically the point I've been trying to get leavers to see, but they can't seem to get their heads around the conflicting requirements. -Matt | |||
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"The nuclear industry is in the same boat - there is no way the new power stations at Hinkley, Bradwell, Sizewell, Wylfa and Moorside can be built without access to the EU labour market. The UK does not have the skills. Don’t worry, the leavers have already said that visas and whatever won’t be a problem and they’ll be handing them out in boxes of cornflakes to anyone who wants one. -Matt Can you provide links to where a leaver has said they’ll be handing visas out in boxes of cornflakes to anyone who wants one? No, of course not. But I can provide you links to leave voting politicians saying this will be the easiest deal in history to make. I can point you to leave voters on here who seem to think that getting a visa won't be a problem and they can't conceive how one would be refused to someone. -Matt So basically it was a lie and you made it up to suit your agenda. Isn't that what you said about the slogan on the infamous red bus?" Nope, not at all. Look up 'hyperbole'. If I go and paint it on the side of a bus and run a campaign on it, then you can take it as being a serious literal statement. Why don't you have a stab at trying to explain how we are going to deal with these two seemingly conflicting statements? So far no leave-supporter has been able to. 1) Visa/permits/whatever will be so cheap and easy to come by that it won't affect us at all. 2) We are taking back control and won't just be letting any old riff-raff into our country. So far the closest we've gotten is a pointer to a proposed Schengen visa which takes no more information or gives no more control than we currently have anyway (being outside Schengen zone). -Matt | |||
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"The nuclear industry is in the same boat - there is no way the new power stations at Hinkley, Bradwell, Sizewell, Wylfa and Moorside can be built without access to the EU labour market. The UK does not have the skills. Don’t worry, the leavers have already said that visas and whatever won’t be a problem and they’ll be handing them out in boxes of cornflakes to anyone who wants one. -Matt Can you provide links to where a leaver has said they’ll be handing visas out in boxes of cornflakes to anyone who wants one? No, of course not. But I can provide you links to leave voting politicians saying this will be the easiest deal in history to make. I can point you to leave voters on here who seem to think that getting a visa won't be a problem and they can't conceive how one would be refused to someone. -Matt So basically it was a lie and you made it up to suit your agenda. Isn't that what you said about the slogan on the infamous red bus? Nope, not at all. Look up 'hyperbole'. If I go and paint it on the side of a bus and run a campaign on it, then you can take it as being a serious literal statement. Why don't you have a stab at trying to explain how we are going to deal with these two seemingly conflicting statements? So far no leave-supporter has been able to. 1) Visa/permits/whatever will be so cheap and easy to come by that it won't affect us at all. 2) We are taking back control and won't just be letting any old riff-raff into our country. So far the closest we've gotten is a pointer to a proposed Schengen visa which takes no more information or gives no more control than we currently have anyway (being outside Schengen zone). -Matt" The statements are not conflicting because, if I'm not mistaken, the first statement was made in reference to UK citizens applying for a visa to visit the EU. The second statement is in regard to non-UK citizens applying for a visa to visit the UK. Maybe you can provide links to see if I have got this right. | |||
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"The nuclear industry is in the same boat - there is no way the new power stations at Hinkley, Bradwell, Sizewell, Wylfa and Moorside can be built without access to the EU labour market. The UK does not have the skills. Don’t worry, the leavers have already said that visas and whatever won’t be a problem and they’ll be handing them out in boxes of cornflakes to anyone who wants one. -Matt Can you provide links to where a leaver has said they’ll be handing visas out in boxes of cornflakes to anyone who wants one? No, of course not. But I can provide you links to leave voting politicians saying this will be the easiest deal in history to make. I can point you to leave voters on here who seem to think that getting a visa won't be a problem and they can't conceive how one would be refused to someone. -Matt So basically it was a lie and you made it up to suit your agenda. Isn't that what you said about the slogan on the infamous red bus? Nope, not at all. Look up 'hyperbole'. If I go and paint it on the side of a bus and run a campaign on it, then you can take it as being a serious literal statement. Why don't you have a stab at trying to explain how we are going to deal with these two seemingly conflicting statements? So far no leave-supporter has been able to. 1) Visa/permits/whatever will be so cheap and easy to come by that it won't affect us at all. 2) We are taking back control and won't just be letting any old riff-raff into our country. So far the closest we've gotten is a pointer to a proposed Schengen visa which takes no more information or gives no more control than we currently have anyway (being outside Schengen zone). -Matt" Dude you know they can't answer your questions .You've applied common sense and logic to the assertion that getting a visa into the EU will be child's play. I have feeling they think brits will get a visa that lets them enter the Euro at will and thd EU citizens will have to jump through hoops to get into the UK . It's all very silly on their part and as usual they've not thought it through . | |||
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"The nuclear industry is in the same boat - there is no way the new power stations at Hinkley, Bradwell, Sizewell, Wylfa and Moorside can be built without access to the EU labour market. The UK does not have the skills. Don’t worry, the leavers have already said that visas and whatever won’t be a problem and they’ll be handing them out in boxes of cornflakes to anyone who wants one. -Matt Can you provide links to where a leaver has said they’ll be handing visas out in boxes of cornflakes to anyone who wants one? No, of course not. But I can provide you links to leave voting politicians saying this will be the easiest deal in history to make. I can point you to leave voters on here who seem to think that getting a visa won't be a problem and they can't conceive how one would be refused to someone. -Matt So basically it was a lie and you made it up to suit your agenda. Isn't that what you said about the slogan on the infamous red bus? Nope, not at all. Look up 'hyperbole'. If I go and paint it on the side of a bus and run a campaign on it, then you can take it as being a serious literal statement. Why don't you have a stab at trying to explain how we are going to deal with these two seemingly conflicting statements? So far no leave-supporter has been able to. 1) Visa/permits/whatever will be so cheap and easy to come by that it won't affect us at all. 2) We are taking back control and won't just be letting any old riff-raff into our country. So far the closest we've gotten is a pointer to a proposed Schengen visa which takes no more information or gives no more control than we currently have anyway (being outside Schengen zone). -Matt The statements are not conflicting because, if I'm not mistaken, the first statement was made in reference to UK citizens applying for a visa to visit the EU. The second statement is in regard to non-UK citizens applying for a visa to visit the UK. Maybe you can provide links to see if I have got this right." No, you are right on that. So what you are saying is that the EU will make it nice and simple for UK citizens to go there, but we will be more selective over people we let in here? So again... what if I am not accepted? What if I want to travel to the EU and my visa application is denied? Or what if an EU-based friend/relative/colleague wants to come here and their application is denied? A more concrete example: I just saw yesterday the a tech conference is being cancelled next year due to the uncertainty of speakers from abroad being able to get visas to come here, and the hassle red tape, expense for the organisers. They simply decided it is too much uncertainty and risk to take on, so cancelling the conference. I personally have organised conferences here in the UK, with over 300 attendees from 30+ countries coming here. The EU speakers were all simple, no problem, they have a right to come here. The Ukranian ones required two trips to the Uk embassy in Ukraine, a 6 hour drive each way. Six people needed to go in person. So that is over 3 person-weeks wasted in travel alone to get those visas. What will be the process for EU citizens coming here? Say, I was to be organising another conference for 7 months from now. Will EU speakers be able to get here OK? What rules/criteria do they need to fit? What will it cost them? How long will they be able to stay? Will their family be able to come over too? What if I pay them a speakers fee, does that change things? My last conference brought about £1M of spending into the Bristol economy. I certainly wouldn't organise another conference of that size until Brexit is 'over'. -Matt | |||
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"The nuclear industry is in the same boat - there is no way the new power stations at Hinkley, Bradwell, Sizewell, Wylfa and Moorside can be built without access to the EU labour market. The UK does not have the skills. Don’t worry, the leavers have already said that visas and whatever won’t be a problem and they’ll be handing them out in boxes of cornflakes to anyone who wants one. -Matt Can you provide links to where a leaver has said they’ll be handing visas out in boxes of cornflakes to anyone who wants one? No, of course not. But I can provide you links to leave voting politicians saying this will be the easiest deal in history to make. I can point you to leave voters on here who seem to think that getting a visa won't be a problem and they can't conceive how one would be refused to someone. -Matt So basically it was a lie and you made it up to suit your agenda. Isn't that what you said about the slogan on the infamous red bus? Nope, not at all. Look up 'hyperbole'. If I go and paint it on the side of a bus and run a campaign on it, then you can take it as being a serious literal statement. Why don't you have a stab at trying to explain how we are going to deal with these two seemingly conflicting statements? So far no leave-supporter has been able to. 1) Visa/permits/whatever will be so cheap and easy to come by that it won't affect us at all. 2) We are taking back control and won't just be letting any old riff-raff into our country. So far the closest we've gotten is a pointer to a proposed Schengen visa which takes no more information or gives no more control than we currently have anyway (being outside Schengen zone). -Matt The statements are not conflicting because, if I'm not mistaken, the first statement was made in reference to UK citizens applying for a visa to visit the EU. The second statement is in regard to non-UK citizens applying for a visa to visit the UK. Maybe you can provide links to see if I have got this right. No, you are right on that. So what you are saying is that the EU will make it nice and simple for UK citizens to go there, but we will be more selective over people we let in here? So again... what if I am not accepted? What if I want to travel to the EU and my visa application is denied? Or what if an EU-based friend/relative/colleague wants to come here and their application is denied? A more concrete example: I just saw yesterday the a tech conference is being cancelled next year due to the uncertainty of speakers from abroad being able to get visas to come here, and the hassle red tape, expense for the organisers. They simply decided it is too much uncertainty and risk to take on, so cancelling the conference. I personally have organised conferences here in the UK, with over 300 attendees from 30+ countries coming here. The EU speakers were all simple, no problem, they have a right to come here. The Ukranian ones required two trips to the Uk embassy in Ukraine, a 6 hour drive each way. Six people needed to go in person. So that is over 3 person-weeks wasted in travel alone to get those visas. What will be the process for EU citizens coming here? Say, I was to be organising another conference for 7 months from now. Will EU speakers be able to get here OK? What rules/criteria do they need to fit? What will it cost them? How long will they be able to stay? Will their family be able to come over too? What if I pay them a speakers fee, does that change things? My last conference brought about £1M of spending into the Bristol economy. I certainly wouldn't organise another conference of that size until Brexit is 'over'. -Matt" If you re-read what I said, I pointed out that I thought what you said were not conflicting statements. If they don't conflict there is no need to suggest a resolution. I am not saying the EU will make it nice and simple for UK citizens to go there. This will depend on the 'final deal', e.g. visa or visa-free, and EU border policy. As I am not party to this it would be foolish of me to make such a statement. If the UK and EU have a visa-free agreement then UK citizens travelling to Schengen countries will need ETIAS authorisation. The EU have said "the ETIAS authorisation will make travelling to the EU less of a hassle and a much safer experience." The ETIAS targets citizens of countries who can enter the EU zone visa-free. As such, 61 countries will need to get the ETIAS authorisation. I didn't say that we (the UK) will be more selective over people we let in here. I have no influence on UK border policy so it would be foolish of me to make such a statement. However, I hope any UK visa/visa-free program will improve the management of our borders, impede irregular migration and assist in detecting and decreasing crime & terrorism. This way we will know who is travelling to the UK before they even get here. Recent security concerns with terrorism and the migrant crisis have called for a better management of who is entering UK borders. If you get refused entry to the UK or EU (visa or visa-free) I assume there is an appeal process. | |||
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"The nuclear industry is in the same boat - there is no way the new power stations at Hinkley, Bradwell, Sizewell, Wylfa and Moorside can be built without access to the EU labour market. The UK does not have the skills. Don’t worry, the leavers have already said that visas and whatever won’t be a problem and they’ll be handing them out in boxes of cornflakes to anyone who wants one. -Matt Can you provide links to where a leaver has said they’ll be handing visas out in boxes of cornflakes to anyone who wants one? No, of course not. But I can provide you links to leave voting politicians saying this will be the easiest deal in history to make. I can point you to leave voters on here who seem to think that getting a visa won't be a problem and they can't conceive how one would be refused to someone. -Matt So basically it was a lie and you made it up to suit your agenda. Isn't that what you said about the slogan on the infamous red bus? Nope, not at all. Look up 'hyperbole'. If I go and paint it on the side of a bus and run a campaign on it, then you can take it as being a serious literal statement. Why don't you have a stab at trying to explain how we are going to deal with these two seemingly conflicting statements? So far no leave-supporter has been able to. 1) Visa/permits/whatever will be so cheap and easy to come by that it won't affect us at all. 2) We are taking back control and won't just be letting any old riff-raff into our country. So far the closest we've gotten is a pointer to a proposed Schengen visa which takes no more information or gives no more control than we currently have anyway (being outside Schengen zone). -Matt The statements are not conflicting because, if I'm not mistaken, the first statement was made in reference to UK citizens applying for a visa to visit the EU. The second statement is in regard to non-UK citizens applying for a visa to visit the UK. Maybe you can provide links to see if I have got this right. No, you are right on that. So what you are saying is that the EU will make it nice and simple for UK citizens to go there, but we will be more selective over people we let in here? So again... what if I am not accepted? What if I want to travel to the EU and my visa application is denied? Or what if an EU-based friend/relative/colleague wants to come here and their application is denied? A more concrete example: I just saw yesterday the a tech conference is being cancelled next year due to the uncertainty of speakers from abroad being able to get visas to come here, and the hassle red tape, expense for the organisers. They simply decided it is too much uncertainty and risk to take on, so cancelling the conference. I personally have organised conferences here in the UK, with over 300 attendees from 30+ countries coming here. The EU speakers were all simple, no problem, they have a right to come here. The Ukranian ones required two trips to the Uk embassy in Ukraine, a 6 hour drive each way. Six people needed to go in person. So that is over 3 person-weeks wasted in travel alone to get those visas. What will be the process for EU citizens coming here? Say, I was to be organising another conference for 7 months from now. Will EU speakers be able to get here OK? What rules/criteria do they need to fit? What will it cost them? How long will they be able to stay? Will their family be able to come over too? What if I pay them a speakers fee, does that change things? My last conference brought about £1M of spending into the Bristol economy. I certainly wouldn't organise another conference of that size until Brexit is 'over'. -Matt If you re-read what I said, I pointed out that I thought what you said were not conflicting statements. If they don't conflict there is no need to suggest a resolution. I am not saying the EU will make it nice and simple for UK citizens to go there. This will depend on the 'final deal', e.g. visa or visa-free, and EU border policy. As I am not party to this it would be foolish of me to make such a statement. If the UK and EU have a visa-free agreement then UK citizens travelling to Schengen countries will need ETIAS authorisation. The EU have said "the ETIAS authorisation will make travelling to the EU less of a hassle and a much safer experience." The ETIAS targets citizens of countries who can enter the EU zone visa-free. As such, 61 countries will need to get the ETIAS authorisation. I didn't say that we (the UK) will be more selective over people we let in here. I have no influence on UK border policy so it would be foolish of me to make such a statement. However, I hope any UK visa/visa-free program will improve the management of our borders, impede irregular migration and assist in detecting and decreasing crime & terrorism. This way we will know who is travelling to the UK before they even get here. Recent security concerns with terrorism and the migrant crisis have called for a better management of who is entering UK borders. If you get refused entry to the UK or EU (visa or visa-free) I assume there is an appeal process." The point being, we are already outside Schengen. So people already have to show their passport when they enter. We already refuse entry to known criminals, and we already share security information with the rest of the EU. So there is nothing really an additional visa to come into the UK would gain us over what we already have in place and access to as part of the EU. As for: "I didn't say that we (the UK) will be more selective over people we let in here. I have no influence on UK border policy so it would be foolish of me to make such a statement." That pretty much illustrates my point. Most of us don't have any influence on UK border policy. But there is a sentiment of a large number of leavers that we are 'taking back control of our borders'. Yet, there is also a large number of leavers that say that 'nothing will change, and travel will be easy'. And I am pretty sure those two groups overlap. Whilst I agree most are only concerned about their summer in Magaluf, I fail to see why the EU would make it simple for us to enter the EU and we'd make it harder for EU citizens to enter the UK. In fact, I'm pretty sure I keep seeing mentions of 'reciprocal' deals regarding this. If we make it so easy and cheap to get in that 'nothing changes' then what is the point? At some point there needs to be a line drawn on who is a 'good guy' and who is a 'bad guy'... and I don't see how that line is going to be drawn or who is going to be responsible for it. -Matt | |||
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"I think you are confusing people who are tourists and people who want to live here." Am I? So how are you proposing we tell the difference then? You thinking we now implement TWO different visas? One you apply for just for a few weeks visit and one you apply for for longer? What about business trips? Do they count? Or you want a 3rd visa to cover them? Or you thinking we have something like the US visa-waiver programme for short term visits? What about people who overstay? You know, like the people that Trump somehow thinks will be stopped by a wall somehow in the US. Not that the government has any track record in working that out accurately. Haven't they recently had to admit that the number of students they thought were overstaying their visas was complete bollocks? -Matt | |||
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"The nuclear industry is in the same boat - there is no way the new power stations at Hinkley, Bradwell, Sizewell, Wylfa and Moorside can be built without access to the EU labour market. The UK does not have the skills. Don’t worry, the leavers have already said that visas and whatever won’t be a problem and they’ll be handing them out in boxes of cornflakes to anyone who wants one. -Matt Can you provide links to where a leaver has said they’ll be handing visas out in boxes of cornflakes to anyone who wants one? No, of course not. But I can provide you links to leave voting politicians saying this will be the easiest deal in history to make. I can point you to leave voters on here who seem to think that getting a visa won't be a problem and they can't conceive how one would be refused to someone. -Matt So basically it was a lie and you made it up to suit your agenda. Isn't that what you said about the slogan on the infamous red bus? Nope, not at all. Look up 'hyperbole'. If I go and paint it on the side of a bus and run a campaign on it, then you can take it as being a serious literal statement. Why don't you have a stab at trying to explain how we are going to deal with these two seemingly conflicting statements? So far no leave-supporter has been able to. 1) Visa/permits/whatever will be so cheap and easy to come by that it won't affect us at all. 2) We are taking back control and won't just be letting any old riff-raff into our country. So far the closest we've gotten is a pointer to a proposed Schengen visa which takes no more information or gives no more control than we currently have anyway (being outside Schengen zone). -Matt The statements are not conflicting because, if I'm not mistaken, the first statement was made in reference to UK citizens applying for a visa to visit the EU. The second statement is in regard to non-UK citizens applying for a visa to visit the UK. Maybe you can provide links to see if I have got this right. No, you are right on that. So what you are saying is that the EU will make it nice and simple for UK citizens to go there, but we will be more selective over people we let in here? So again... what if I am not accepted? What if I want to travel to the EU and my visa application is denied? Or what if an EU-based friend/relative/colleague wants to come here and their application is denied? A more concrete example: I just saw yesterday the a tech conference is being cancelled next year due to the uncertainty of speakers from abroad being able to get visas to come here, and the hassle red tape, expense for the organisers. They simply decided it is too much uncertainty and risk to take on, so cancelling the conference. I personally have organised conferences here in the UK, with over 300 attendees from 30+ countries coming here. The EU speakers were all simple, no problem, they have a right to come here. The Ukranian ones required two trips to the Uk embassy in Ukraine, a 6 hour drive each way. Six people needed to go in person. So that is over 3 person-weeks wasted in travel alone to get those visas. What will be the process for EU citizens coming here? Say, I was to be organising another conference for 7 months from now. Will EU speakers be able to get here OK? What rules/criteria do they need to fit? What will it cost them? How long will they be able to stay? Will their family be able to come over too? What if I pay them a speakers fee, does that change things? My last conference brought about £1M of spending into the Bristol economy. I certainly wouldn't organise another conference of that size until Brexit is 'over'. -Matt If you re-read what I said, I pointed out that I thought what you said were not conflicting statements. If they don't conflict there is no need to suggest a resolution. I am not saying the EU will make it nice and simple for UK citizens to go there. This will depend on the 'final deal', e.g. visa or visa-free, and EU border policy. As I am not party to this it would be foolish of me to make such a statement. If the UK and EU have a visa-free agreement then UK citizens travelling to Schengen countries will need ETIAS authorisation. The EU have said "the ETIAS authorisation will make travelling to the EU less of a hassle and a much safer experience." The ETIAS targets citizens of countries who can enter the EU zone visa-free. As such, 61 countries will need to get the ETIAS authorisation. I didn't say that we (the UK) will be more selective over people we let in here. I have no influence on UK border policy so it would be foolish of me to make such a statement. However, I hope any UK visa/visa-free program will improve the management of our borders, impede irregular migration and assist in detecting and decreasing crime & terrorism. This way we will know who is travelling to the UK before they even get here. Recent security concerns with terrorism and the migrant crisis have called for a better management of who is entering UK borders. If you get refused entry to the UK or EU (visa or visa-free) I assume there is an appeal process. The point being, we are already outside Schengen. So people already have to show their passport when they enter. We already refuse entry to known criminals, and we already share security information with the rest of the EU. So there is nothing really an additional visa to come into the UK would gain us over what we already have in place and access to as part of the EU. As for: "I didn't say that we (the UK) will be more selective over people we let in here. I have no influence on UK border policy so it would be foolish of me to make such a statement." That pretty much illustrates my point. Most of us don't have any influence on UK border policy. But there is a sentiment of a large number of leavers that we are 'taking back control of our borders'. Yet, there is also a large number of leavers that say that 'nothing will change, and travel will be easy'. And I am pretty sure those two groups overlap. Whilst I agree most are only concerned about their summer in Magaluf, I fail to see why the EU would make it simple for us to enter the EU and we'd make it harder for EU citizens to enter the UK. In fact, I'm pretty sure I keep seeing mentions of 'reciprocal' deals regarding this. If we make it so easy and cheap to get in that 'nothing changes' then what is the point? At some point there needs to be a line drawn on who is a 'good guy' and who is a 'bad guy'... and I don't see how that line is going to be drawn or who is going to be responsible for it. -Matt" Your point is only correct when we are a member of the EU. Currently we are outside Schengen but also in the EU. When we leave the EU we become a 'third country' and may or may not have access to that security information. In my opinion an additional visa or authorisation program will be required for the UK to improve border management, impede irregular migration and assist in detecting and decreasing crime & terrorism. If this is 'taking back control of our borders' then I support it. | |||
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"I know that centy likes to use jaguar Land Rover a lot in his examples of what a thriving company would look like post brexit..... It looks like the chief executive has gone rouge... Oopsie......" Well, he is a German! Like most companies, they all want the "right Brexit" and for those that depend on a supply chain, a "hard Brexit" would most certainly be the "right Brexit". It's only natural that positions are being hardened as we approach deal time. | |||
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"I think you are confusing people who are tourists and people who want to live here. Am I? So how are you proposing we tell the difference then? You thinking we now implement TWO different visas? One you apply for just for a few weeks visit and one you apply for for longer? What about business trips? Do they count? Or you want a 3rd visa to cover them? Or you thinking we have something like the US visa-waiver programme for short term visits? What about people who overstay? You know, like the people that Trump somehow thinks will be stopped by a wall somehow in the US. Not that the government has any track record in working that out accurately. Haven't they recently had to admit that the number of students they thought were overstaying their visas was complete bollocks? -Matt" Keep it simple... Citizens of countries with a reciprocal visa-free travel agreement are allowed in the UK for business or travel purposes for up to 90 days. During these 90 days, these visitors are not allowed to work or study, but can engage in business and tourism activities. They will need to be security checked before entering to ensure they are not a threat to UK security. This will ensure the person being denied entry and avoiding the threat from being present inside UK borders. Work visas and entry from countries with no reciprocal visa-free travel agreement will need to be dealt with differently. | |||
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"I know that centy likes to use jaguar Land Rover a lot in his examples of what a thriving company would look like post brexit..... It looks like the chief executive has gone rouge... Oopsie......" I think you're confusing JLR with JCB Fabio. JCB has indeed thrived since the vote to Leave in 2016, has seen profits soar by around 1/3rd (over 30%) as world orders for JCB's have rolled in. The company has invested millions in the UK since the referendum result and is currently building a new multi million pound state of the art facility in Staffordshire which will create hundreds of new jobs. | |||
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"I think you are confusing people who are tourists and people who want to live here. Am I? So how are you proposing we tell the difference then? You thinking we now implement TWO different visas? One you apply for just for a few weeks visit and one you apply for for longer? What about business trips? Do they count? Or you want a 3rd visa to cover them? Or you thinking we have something like the US visa-waiver programme for short term visits? What about people who overstay? You know, like the people that Trump somehow thinks will be stopped by a wall somehow in the US. Not that the government has any track record in working that out accurately. Haven't they recently had to admit that the number of students they thought were overstaying their visas was complete bollocks? -Matt Keep it simple... Citizens of countries with a reciprocal visa-free travel agreement are allowed in the UK for business or travel purposes for up to 90 days. During these 90 days, these visitors are not allowed to work or study, but can engage in business and tourism activities. They will need to be security checked before entering to ensure they are not a threat to UK security. This will ensure the person being denied entry and avoiding the threat from being present inside UK borders. Work visas and entry from countries with no reciprocal visa-free travel agreement will need to be dealt with differently." | |||
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"I know that centy likes to use jaguar Land Rover a lot in his examples of what a thriving company would look like post brexit..... It looks like the chief executive has gone rouge... Oopsie...... I think you're confusing JLR with JCB Fabio. JCB has indeed thrived since the vote to Leave in 2016, has seen profits soar by around 1/3rd (over 30%) as world orders for JCB's have rolled in. The company has invested millions in the UK since the referendum result and is currently building a new multi million pound state of the art facility in Staffordshire which will create hundreds of new jobs. " Well you know what they centy... a couple of hundred jcb jobs on one side... 40,000 JLR jobs on the other .... 
But who’s counting..... | |||
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"I know that centy likes to use jaguar Land Rover a lot in his examples of what a thriving company would look like post brexit..... It looks like the chief executive has gone rouge... Oopsie...... Well, he is a German! Like most companies, they all want the "right Brexit" and for those that depend on a supply chain, a "hard Brexit" would most certainly be the "right Brexit". It's only natural that positions are being hardened as we approach deal time." I very much doubt any company that deals with supply chains would think "hard brexit" is the "right brexit". -Matt | |||
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"I know that centy likes to use jaguar Land Rover a lot in his examples of what a thriving company would look like post brexit..... It looks like the chief executive has gone rouge... Oopsie...... I think you're confusing JLR with JCB Fabio. JCB has indeed thrived since the vote to Leave in 2016, has seen profits soar by around 1/3rd (over 30%) as world orders for JCB's have rolled in. The company has invested millions in the UK since the referendum result and is currently building a new multi million pound state of the art facility in Staffordshire which will create hundreds of new jobs. Well you know what they centy... a couple of hundred jcb jobs on one side... 40,000 JLR jobs on the other ....
But who’s counting..... "40,000, what about the 500,000 jobs that George Osborne and Nick Clegg said would be lost overall from a vote to Leave? Oh, hang on........ that's gone up in smoke now hasn't it _abio as over 600,000 new jobs have been added to the UK economy overall since the referendum result was announced in 2016. | |||
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"I know that centy likes to use jaguar Land Rover a lot in his examples of what a thriving company would look like post brexit..... It looks like the chief executive has gone rouge... Oopsie...... Well, he is a German! Like most companies, they all want the "right Brexit" and for those that depend on a supply chain, a "hard Brexit" would most certainly be the "right Brexit". It's only natural that positions are being hardened as we approach deal time. I very much doubt any company that deals with supply chains would think "hard brexit" is the "right brexit". -Matt" oops. Not my intention to leave out the word "not"....thanks for correcting that for me. Supply chains need the softest Brexit. | |||
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"Whatever is bad for us is bad for the EU.Everything said that is negative for us will apply to the EU.The nearer we get to leaving date, the more their mind will be concentrated on getting a sensible agreement.The Chequers plan is a bad starting point." True, apart from as we know it will hurt us far more than it will hurt the EU. -Matt | |||
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"Whatever is bad for us is bad for the EU.Everything said that is negative for us will apply to the EU.The nearer we get to leaving date, the more their mind will be concentrated on getting a sensible agreement.The Chequers plan is a bad starting point. True, apart from as we know it will hurt us far more than it will hurt the EU. -Matt" So why do they want to hurt themselves ? | |||
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"Whatever is bad for us is bad for the EU.Everything said that is negative for us will apply to the EU.The nearer we get to leaving date, the more their mind will be concentrated on getting a sensible agreement.The Chequers plan is a bad starting point. True, apart from as we know it will hurt us far more than it will hurt the EU. -Matt So why do they want to hurt themselves ? " Ummmmm... maybe you missed that it was the U.K. that said we were leaving. -Matt | |||
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"Whatever is bad for us is bad for the EU.Everything said that is negative for us will apply to the EU.The nearer we get to leaving date, the more their mind will be concentrated on getting a sensible agreement.The Chequers plan is a bad starting point. True, apart from as we know it will hurt us far more than it will hurt the EU. -Matt So why do they want to hurt themselves ? Ummmmm... maybe you missed that it was the U.K. that said we were leaving. -Matt" Again why would they do anything that hurts themselves ? | |||
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"Whatever is bad for us is bad for the EU.Everything said that is negative for us will apply to the EU.The nearer we get to leaving date, the more their mind will be concentrated on getting a sensible agreement.The Chequers plan is a bad starting point. True, apart from as we know it will hurt us far more than it will hurt the EU. -Matt So why do they want to hurt themselves ? Ummmmm... maybe you missed that it was the U.K. that said we were leaving. -Matt Again why would they do anything that hurts themselves ? " I don’t think they would. -Matt | |||
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"Whatever is bad for us is bad for the EU.Everything said that is negative for us will apply to the EU.The nearer we get to leaving date, the more their mind will be concentrated on getting a sensible agreement.The Chequers plan is a bad starting point. True, apart from as we know it will hurt us far more than it will hurt the EU. -Matt So why do they want to hurt themselves ? Ummmmm... maybe you missed that it was the U.K. that said we were leaving. -Matt Again why would they do anything that hurts themselves ? I don’t think they would. -Matt" So they will agree to a free trade deal then, if they impose tariffs which we have to assume we will also apply then according to you trade suffers on both sides, so they will agree free trade, there is no reason not to is there ? | |||
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"Whatever is bad for us is bad for the EU.Everything said that is negative for us will apply to the EU.The nearer we get to leaving date, the more their mind will be concentrated on getting a sensible agreement.The Chequers plan is a bad starting point. True, apart from as we know it will hurt us far more than it will hurt the EU. -Matt So why do they want to hurt themselves ? Ummmmm... maybe you missed that it was the U.K. that said we were leaving. -Matt Again why would they do anything that hurts themselves ? I don’t think they would. -Matt So they will agree to a free trade deal then, if they impose tariffs which we have to assume we will also apply then according to you trade suffers on both sides, so they will agree free trade, there is no reason not to is there ?" No, because offering just free trade to us without us accepting the rest of the freedoms will harm them. So they won’t do that. -Matt | |||
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"Whatever is bad for us is bad for the EU.Everything said that is negative for us will apply to the EU.The nearer we get to leaving date, the more their mind will be concentrated on getting a sensible agreement.The Chequers plan is a bad starting point. True, apart from as we know it will hurt us far more than it will hurt the EU. -Matt So why do they want to hurt themselves ? Ummmmm... maybe you missed that it was the U.K. that said we were leaving. -Matt Again why would they do anything that hurts themselves ? I don’t think they would. -Matt So they will agree to a free trade deal then, if they impose tariffs which we have to assume we will also apply then according to you trade suffers on both sides, so they will agree free trade, there is no reason not to is there ? No, because offering just free trade to us without us accepting the rest of the freedoms will harm them. So they won’t do that. -Matt" Harm them in what way ? Not financially just their political dream, so while you say that leave voters have harmed the uk's financial future you now have admitted that the EU will harm their citizens financial future in favour of the eu's political future,perhaps they should ask their voters if they agree. | |||
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"I see that Oil and Gas UK, the industry umbrella body, is warning offshore platforms may be forced to shut down if they lose access to the EU labour market. The UK does not have enough skilled workers to maintain the industry and its safety systems." There are plenty of skilled workers for that industry, many living in Aberdeen and unemployed due to cheep foreign workers taking their jobs. Give them the green light and make the industry pay their workers a proper wage. | |||
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"The EU sells more to us than we sell to them, therefore under WTO rules,we will gain financially. I voted out because the EU is a corrupt organisation and a threat to peace.We cannot have freedom of movement because Government cannot then plan for public services, schools, hospitals, roads etc etc.Unlimited immigration has exacerbated problems with the NHS because people come into the country and can immediately have expensive treatment, having paid nothing in.Russia's invasion of Ukraine was caused by the latter wanting to get involved with the EU.Whinging by remainers is playing into the hands of the EU.We should be showing a united front to the EU.Their antics will ensure a bad deal." What a load of rubbish! The problem is that governments for decades haven't planned! We have known for years we have an ageing population and that needed planning - social housing (old fashioned council houses ), social care, the NHS has over 107,000 vacancies - because European nationals are leaving. You clearly are oblivious to the fact that MOST immigrants work in the UK and therefore pay into the system unlike the Brits who migrate to EU countries! Finally Davis - leaver, Raab -leaver are negotiating not remoaners so don't blame others. Leave said it was going to be easy to do a deal with EU (Fox, Farage ) leavers! Just lets see what they achieve before shouting about who is to blame. | |||
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" What a load of rubbish! The problem is that governments for decades haven't planned! We have known for years we have an ageing population and that needed planning - social housing (old fashioned council houses ), social care, the NHS has over 107,000 vacancies - because European nationals are leaving. You clearly are oblivious to the fact that MOST immigrants work in the UK and therefore pay into the system unlike the Brits who migrate to EU countries! Finally Davis - leaver, Raab -leaver are negotiating not remoaners so don't blame others. Leave said it was going to be easy to do a deal with EU (Fox, Farage ) leavers! Just lets see what they achieve before shouting about who is to blame." The problem with your post is the fact that NET migration from the eu was still 90,000 last year | |||
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"Governments have a census every 10 years to forecast the growth in demand for everything but uncontrolled immigration makes planning impossible,hence all the problems and crises this country is having.Whatever they say,the PM and her adviser Ollie Collins I believe his name is are pulling the strings.Re the NHS, you obviously do not want to believe the obvious." re: the NHS.... if a person from an EU country needs treatment and they are not eligable to be treated the uk... their country of origin is billed for that treatment.... so that is a red herring you are more likely to be treated by someone in the NHS from an EU country then to be next to someone from a eu country needing treatment.... | |||
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"If we had someone like Donald Trump dealing with brexit they wouldn't stand a chance He's a business man Entrapaneur etc etc I feel our crowd are just politicians and haven't a clue and agree to easily I still say eu needs us more than we need them "Hahahahahahahahaha! Nice one
-Matt | |||
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"If we had someone like Donald Trump dealing with brexit they wouldn't stand a chance He's a business man Entrapaneur etc etc I feel our crowd are just politicians and haven't a clue and agree to easily I still say eu needs us more than we need them "Yeah what could be at all wrong with someone who flip flops on a daily basis between slagging off and then praising the same people looking after the negotiations..
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"Governments have a census every 10 years to forecast the growth in demand for everything but uncontrolled immigration makes planning impossible,hence all the problems and crises this country is having.Whatever they say,the PM and her adviser Ollie Collins I believe his name is are pulling the strings.Re the NHS, you obviously do not want to believe the obvious." Exactly, and the Labour party estimated around 65,000 Eastern Europeans would come here in 2004 when Eastern block countries joined the EU, in the real event over a million of them came. A prime example of how you can't plan for future infrastructure needs when you have free movement. | |||
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"Governments have a census every 10 years to forecast the growth in demand for everything but uncontrolled immigration makes planning impossible,hence all the problems and crises this country is having.Whatever they say,the PM and her adviser Ollie Collins I believe his name is are pulling the strings.Re the NHS, you obviously do not want to believe the obvious. Exactly, and the Labour party estimated around 65,000 Eastern Europeans would come here in 2004 when Eastern block countries joined the EU, in the real event over a million of them came. A prime example of how you can't plan for future infrastructure needs when you have free movement. "You mean, you can’t plan for future infrastructure needs when you deliberately don’t use the abilities you were given (and that every other EU member besides the U.K. used) to limit the number of immigrants from the new countries for the first few years. We had the ability to control immigration. Every other country did. We didn’t. Whose fault is that? -Matt | |||
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 . This rabid excuse for a party is riven with people hell bent on ideology that's largely against most of the citizens as well as dangerous narcissists who want power due to fragile egos.
They've treated the negotiations with contempt, almost as much as with their citizens. They've had their heads filled with no deal mantras, to the point that some assume it must be quite a good thing
You are viewed as a near worthless piece of shit by most of this government, although you will have to pay of course for their free lunch. | |||
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"Governments have a census every 10 years to forecast the growth in demand for everything but uncontrolled immigration makes planning impossible,hence all the problems and crises this country is having.Whatever they say,the PM and her adviser Ollie Collins I believe his name is are pulling the strings.Re the NHS, you obviously do not want to believe the obvious. Exactly, and the Labour party estimated around 65,000 Eastern Europeans would come here in 2004 when Eastern block countries joined the EU, in the real event over a million of them came. A prime example of how you can't plan for future infrastructure needs when you have free movement. "Ok so free movement is being blaming basically for all our woes. It has been for a long time now. The Office for National Statistics research concluded that the majority of EU8 Nationals "which people seem to have the most problems with" are of working age & around 80% are in employment. This would suggest them being here puts more in to the UK than is taken out and with an aging UK population expanding do we not need people in employment even more to foot the increasing bill. EU immigration is less than half of our total yearly immigration. Over double the amount of immigrants come from outside the EU to the UK. Do these immigrants not cause any problems to the UK ? Doesn't seem to be the case as it's always EU Freedom of Movement immigrants that are blamed for everything. Why accept all these immigrants applications from outside the EU if there's so much pressure on our infrastructure to start with. We know roughly what the net migration to the UK is going to be every year yet if the infrastructure cannot cope then is our Government not at fault for lack of planning ? It doesn't take a census every 10 years to have a good idea what your population is. Jobs are often thrown into the mix too yet we have record employment and still 735,000 jobs unfilled, around 30,000 in the NHS alone. There's checks, balances & controls regarding Freedom of movement & Health care of EU nationals in place to prevent migrants being a drain on the host nation but the UK just doesn't bother to apply it. | |||
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"No I don’t it just reminds me of the ppl who predict the worlds end on a certain day then wake up and think fuck must of got me day wrong it must be next yr If yr right then you can gloat but if yr wrong you will look a tad silly lol Oh, I’ll be more than happy if I wake up and find that Brexit has been cancelled. -Matt" fact ..brexit means brexit .its about time everyone realised it .embrace it .I know I will | |||
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"The EU sells more to us than we sell to them, therefore under WTO rules,we will gain financially. " I do not understand how applying tariffs to goods that are currently tariff-free can be a gain for anyone. Everything becomes more expensive, inflation rises and wage pressures become more acute. No, the argument is about who will lose more. Trade won’t stop - it will just become more expensive - in both directions - and wrapped up in red tape. | |||
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"The EU sells more to us than we sell to them, therefore under WTO rules,we will gain financially. I do not understand how applying tariffs to goods that are currently tariff-free can be a gain for anyone. Everything becomes more expensive, inflation rises and wage pressures become more acute. No, the argument is about who will lose more. Trade won’t stop - it will just become more expensive - in both directions - and wrapped up in red tape. " It also assumes all tarrifs are equal .... | |||
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" You mean, you can’t plan for future infrastructure needs when you deliberately don’t use the abilities you were given (and that every other EU member besides the U.K. used) to limit the number of immigrants from the new countries for the first few years. We had the ability to control immigration. Every other country did. We didn’t. Whose fault is that? -Matt" I agree with you on that we could have done more. I notice you cant answer the point of why the eu's leaders are happy to financially hit its own citizens for their own political ends | |||
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"The EU sells more to us than we sell to them, therefore under WTO rules,we will gain financially. I do not understand how applying tariffs to goods that are currently tariff-free can be a gain for anyone. Everything becomes more expensive, inflation rises and wage pressures become more acute. No, the argument is about who will lose more. Trade won’t stop - it will just become more expensive - in both directions - and wrapped up in red tape. " Their is no gain apart from the countries that collect them have some cash to waste, the citizens that pay them will lose out but we all know the leaders of the eu dont care about that they want to protect their dream of a united states of europe above all else | |||
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"Of course the census gives a guide as to how the population will grow ! and yes,uncontrolled immigration is to blame for many of our troubles.They may be of working age but that is the age they have children and giving birth is very expensive for the NHS and they will have contributed virtually nothing to it whereas people of my age have been contributing for all my working life...still not making demands on the NHS.We are covering lovely green countryside in an attempt to house all these people,green space which we will never get back yet there is still a "housing crisis" in the housing market because rising demand causes rising prices.More people wanting to work depresses wages.That is how markets work ! We are not self sufficient in food now,without letting more people in ! I cannot understand the remainers having seen how our supposed "best friends" (the EU) are now treating us because we dare to want to leave their totalitarian state want to have anything to do with them ! Look how they are treating Hungary because the latter want to preserve the Hungarian way of life and not be swamped by immigrants." Another view would be the housing pressure is as much from longevity of uk nationals than immigration (and this increase means the average 60 to today will take out more than they out in). And all those new immigrant births are repacking a drop in non immigrant burth rates, and so without them we’d see either a reduction in the economically active in 30 years time (putting stresss on the country’s finances) or a new need to get in migrant workers ! | |||
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"Of course the census gives a guide as to how the population will grow ! and yes,uncontrolled immigration is to blame for many of our troubles.They may be of working age but that is the age they have children and giving birth is very expensive for the NHS and they will have contributed virtually nothing to it whereas people of my age have been contributing for all my working life...still not making demands on the NHS.We are covering lovely green countryside in an attempt to house all these people,green space which we will never get back yet there is still a "housing crisis" in the housing market because rising demand causes rising prices.More people wanting to work depresses wages.That is how markets work ! We are not self sufficient in food now,without letting more people in ! I cannot understand the remainers having seen how our supposed "best friends" (the EU) are now treating us because we dare to want to leave their totalitarian state want to have anything to do with them ! Look how they are treating Hungary because the latter want to preserve the Hungarian way of life and not be swamped by immigrants." How the EU are treating us? You mean like the spoiled toddlers that we are throwing our toys out the pram when we don't get our own way (whatever that way is, as we don't seem to actually know). As for housing etc... maybe look at the actual numbers. There is actually a *tiny* bit of greebelt land being built upon. And whilst I agree it is a shame that any is, that is a reality. And blaming is all on migrants? We gave birth for six times more people in this country than EU migrants came here. So lets not throw the first stone, eh? You are right, we are not self-sufficient with food, we are a net importer. That is why I can't understand why leavers want to make things harder for us to import from our nearest neighbours and think that flying food from the other side of the planet is a better idea. You are 69 years old and saying you are not making demands on the NHS. Well done you! But that is actually the problem. Putting it bluntly the fact that people are living longer means we are having to treat them longer and support them longer in their old age. This is not news. This has been forecast for a long time. Yet successive governments have done little to nothing to address the issue. -Matt | |||
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"and yes,uncontrolled immigration is to blame for many of our troubles." Ok, simple question for you. If "uncontrolled" immigration is to blame for our troubles..... why do we have "double" the amount of controlled immigration ? If you have for arguments sake 100,000 EU immigrants from freedom of movement & 200,000 controlled immigrants, how do you blame the minority EU immigrants for our troubles and not the majority group double the amount ? Very interested in your opinion | |||
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"Of course the census gives a guide as to how the population will grow ! and yes,uncontrolled immigration is to blame for many of our troubles.They may be of working age but that is the age they have children and giving birth is very expensive for the NHS and they will have contributed virtually nothing to it whereas people of my age have been contributing for all my working life...still not making demands on the NHS.We are covering lovely green countryside in an attempt to house all these people,green space which we will never get back yet there is still a "housing crisis" in the housing market because rising demand causes rising prices.More people wanting to work depresses wages.That is how markets work ! We are not self sufficient in food now,without letting more people in ! I cannot understand the remainers having seen how our supposed "best friends" (the EU) are now treating us because we dare to want to leave their totalitarian state want to have anything to do with them ! Look how they are treating Hungary because the latter want to preserve the Hungarian way of life and not be swamped by immigrants." of course all these new births will also require school places when they reach schooling age, putting further pressure on already overcrowded classes. It also means that not only more houses need to be built (some on the green belt) it also means building a shed load more schools as well. | |||
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"Of course the census gives a guide as to how the population will grow ! and yes,uncontrolled immigration is to blame for many of our troubles.They may be of working age but that is the age they have children and giving birth is very expensive for the NHS and they will have contributed virtually nothing to it whereas people of my age have been contributing for all my working life...still not making demands on the NHS.We are covering lovely green countryside in an attempt to house all these people,green space which we will never get back yet there is still a "housing crisis" in the housing market because rising demand causes rising prices.More people wanting to work depresses wages.That is how markets work ! We are not self sufficient in food now,without letting more people in ! I cannot understand the remainers having seen how our supposed "best friends" (the EU) are now treating us because we dare to want to leave their totalitarian state want to have anything to do with them ! Look how they are treating Hungary because the latter want to preserve the Hungarian way of life and not be swamped by immigrants. of course all these new births will also require school places when they reach schooling age, putting further pressure on already overcrowded classes. It also means that not only more houses need to be built (some on the green belt) it also means building a shed load more schools as well. "Right, and stats from last year show that the percentage of children born in the UK mothers who were not born in the UK is at 28%. Now given my daughter fits in that category (because despite being both British, my wife was born in Germany on an army base), you can guess that 28% is not all 'immigrants' as you might see them. But still.. you are right, the vast majority of children born in the UK are to UK citizens and that they will need houses and schooling. Please tell me again why that is an EU problem, and not one of our own governments? I'll re-iterate for the hard of hearing that it was our government that is responsible for building houses and schools, and our government that decided not to use the immigration controls it has with regards to new EU countries. And it is our government that has full control of the immigration rate of 3/4 of our immigrants (the non-EU ones). And just to remind you as well that our PM was home sec for how many years and she failed to hit every target she set on this? -Matt | |||
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"Yes,it is entirely Government's fault.Firstly for getting us into the EU without consulting the electorate.I will always support free trade but nothing else.Then Labour under Bliar threw open the doors to all the World and his wife including EU countries despite being warned what would happen.Now the warnings are coming true.Probably too late.For myself,I really do not care because I will not be here to see the inevitable outcome of the UK becoming an islamic state,but you with children who will have to endure it should be searching your conscience.We cannot even deport EU citizens who have come here and committed crimes like the the murder of headmaster Philip Lawrence.I know I will be called names for saying all that and I am combining general immigration with that from the EU but none of it is a good thing because it is resulting in a "balkanised" country.The fact is that free movement is so bad for this country. " Don't be scared by the changes in society .You can never jump into the same river twice .The world that my children will grow up in will be unrecognisable to your generation .They don't miss the old world and will embrace the future because the past is gone and the only direction is forwards .Relax a multicultural Britain is beautiful dynamic thing .Adaptation is required for survival .Those that don't or can't adapt wither and die. | |||
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"Yes,it is entirely Government's fault.Firstly for getting us into the EU without consulting the electorate.I will always support free trade but nothing else.Then Labour under Bliar threw open the doors to all the World and his wife including EU countries despite being warned what would happen.Now the warnings are coming true.Probably too late.For myself,I really do not care because I will not be here to see the inevitable outcome of the UK becoming an islamic state,but you with children who will have to endure it should be searching your conscience.We cannot even deport EU citizens who have come here and committed crimes like the the murder of headmaster Philip Lawrence.I know I will be called names for saying all that and I am combining general immigration with that from the EU but none of it is a good thing because it is resulting in a "balkanised" country.The fact is that free movement is so bad for this country. Don't be scared by the changes in society .You can never jump into the same river twice .The world that my children will grow up in will be unrecognisable to your generation .They don't miss the old world and will embrace the future because the past is gone and the only direction is forwards .Relax a multicultural Britain is beautiful dynamic thing .Adaptation is required for survival .Those that don't or can't adapt wither and die." | |||
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"Yes,it is entirely Government's fault.Firstly for getting us into the EU without consulting the electorate.I will always support free trade but nothing else.Then Labour under Bliar threw open the doors to all the World and his wife including EU countries despite being warned what would happen.Now the warnings are coming true.Probably too late.For myself,I really do not care because I will not be here to see the inevitable outcome of the UK becoming an islamic state,but you with children who will have to endure it should be searching your conscience.We cannot even deport EU citizens who have come here and committed crimes like the the murder of headmaster Philip Lawrence.I know I will be called names for saying all that and I am combining general immigration with that from the EU but none of it is a good thing because it is resulting in a "balkanised" country.The fact is that free movement is so bad for this country. Don't be scared by the changes in society .You can never jump into the same river twice .The world that my children will grow up in will be unrecognisable to your generation .They don't miss the old world and will embrace the future because the past is gone and the only direction is forwards .Relax a multicultural Britain is beautiful dynamic thing .Adaptation is required for survival .Those that don't or can't adapt wither and die." | |||
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"I was never asked if I wanted a "multicultural"Britain.Now we have permanent terrorism and gang violence and murder on an unprecedented scale.One day the white indigenous will be in the minority.Your children will love that....not. I don't have children so am not "talking through my pocket" as losing gamblers say." You sound like delightful individual. | |||
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"I was never asked if I wanted a "multicultural"Britain.Now we have permanent terrorism and gang violence and murder on an unprecedented scale.One day the white indigenous will be in the minority.Your children will love that....not. I don't have children so am not "talking through my pocket" as losing gamblers say." After reading your poison, all I can say is I hope the influx of other people and cultures accelerates so that it becomes harder and harder to detect racist bigots like you in our midst. | |||
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" You sound like delightful individual." The good news is the gene pool has been spared. | |||
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"I was never asked if I wanted a "multicultural"Britain.Now we have permanent terrorism and gang violence and murder on an unprecedented scale.One day the white indigenous will be in the minority.Your children will love that....not. I don't have children so am not "talking through my pocket" as losing gamblers say." all i am going to say is "wow!!!"..... just "wow!!!" | |||
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"I was never asked if I wanted a "multicultural"Britain.Now we have permanent terrorism and gang violence and murder on an unprecedented scale.One day the white indigenous will be in the minority.Your children will love that....not. I don't have children so am not "talking through my pocket" as losing gamblers say." You should have opened your eyes when you were a boy, we have been a multicultural society for a long time and we are better off for it.. The sooner the like of you realise that the better.. Go and look on the war memorials in France from the first World War and pay respect to the many different members of the empire that helped us defeat the kaiser.. And do the same with the people from far away lands who gave their lives in the fight against vile fascists and the like.. Shane on you with such disgusting views.. | |||
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"Sam’s opinion is not uncommon, and is in many ways understandable. I’m not saying that I agree with it all, but I do believe he has a right to it. The flames have been fanned by uncontrolled immigration, the rise of radical Islam, and enforced political correctness stopping many people from objecting. If the so self righteous among us want to preserve their multicultural paradise, then they should start realising that some who come here should not be allowed, and many already here really don’t belong..." great speech!!! my heart goes out to you... i think i need protecting from you lot.. after all most of the mass murderers in this country have been white men!!!! you lot are a menace!!!! | |||
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"Sam’s opinion is not uncommon, and is in many ways understandable. I’m not saying that I agree with it all, but I do believe he has a right to it. The flames have been fanned by uncontrolled immigration, the rise of radical Islam, and enforced political correctness stopping many people from objecting. If the so self righteous among us want to preserve their multicultural paradise, then they should start realising that some who come here should not be allowed, and many already here really don’t belong..." Given the focus on murder, terrorism, anti Muslim etc, I do wonder how much being out of the Eu is going to help those with these fears.... | |||
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"Sam’s opinion is not uncommon, and is in many ways understandable. I’m not saying that I agree with it all, but I do believe he has a right to it. The flames have been fanned by uncontrolled immigration, the rise of radical Islam, and enforced political correctness stopping many people from objecting. If the so self righteous among us want to preserve their multicultural paradise, then they should start realising that some who come here should not be allowed, and many already here really don’t belong..." You’re partly right. There are plenty of people who think this way, partly why this country is in such a shitty state. I can assure you that as much as you guys don’t like having brown people knocking around, the rest of us don’t like racists here even more. The rise of race hate can hardly be blamed on political correctness. That’s just silly thing to say. No one likes the PC types. Freedom of speech is fundamental and works both ways. As much as he has the right to spout his inane bigotry, we have the right to call him out on it. | |||
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Try telling that to the young girls that was used by Asian men.
Not rasist just a fact they think white girls are easy.
They never pick on Asian girls funny that????? | |||
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" great speech!!! my heart goes out to you... i think i need protecting from you lot.. after all most of the mass murderers in this country have been white men!!!! you lot are a menace!!!!
Try telling that to the young girls that was used by Asian men.
Not rasist just a fact they think white girls are easy.
They never pick on Asian girls funny that?????"Wtf has this to do with the EU and no deal? | |||
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"I was never asked if I wanted a "multicultural"Britain.Now we have permanent terrorism and gang violence and murder on an unprecedented scale.One day the white indigenous will be in the minority.Your children will love that....not. I don't have children so am not "talking through my pocket" as losing gamblers say." Unbelievable. Shameful tosh. Enoch Powell would be proud of you and your disgraceful views. | |||
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"Sam’s opinion is not uncommon, and is in many ways understandable. I’m not saying that I agree with it all, but I do believe he has a right to it. The flames have been fanned by uncontrolled immigration, the rise of radical Islam, and enforced political correctness stopping many people from objecting. If the so self righteous among us want to preserve their multicultural paradise, then they should start realising that some who come here should not be allowed, and many already here really don’t belong... You’re partly right. There are plenty of people who think this way, partly why this country is in such a shitty state. I can assure you that as much as you guys don’t like having brown people knocking around, the rest of us don’t like racists here even more. The rise of race hate can hardly be blamed on political correctness. That’s just silly thing to say. No one likes the PC types. Freedom of speech is fundamental and works both ways. As much as he has the right to spout his inane bigotry, we have the right to call him out on it." One of the more depressing aspects of the leave vote is that it has emboldened racists who now feel,it's entirely reasonable to spout their bile. | |||
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"Every single aspect of our lives and culture, from the system of words and numbers through to high heels, pizza and Chinese takeaway, is an import from foreign culture and the migration of people to these islands. It is also true that, until relatively recently, these islands and their inhabitants, like most of western Europe, were a complete backwater that contributed nothing to human progress. It seems one or two of their descendants are still with us. " Remind me again where the industrial revolution started, oh and what did the greeks,romans,spanish and french let alone the british empire ever do for the world? | |||
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"Europe,the centre of culture and scientific progress.What scientific discoveries have been made in Africa or other places where these immigrants are coming from? The UK is already one of the most densely populated countries in the world in the world and already has to import much of it's food.All this immigration is madness." Wow. Seriously? Go do some research... here I’ll give you a clue for an easy one to start with.. 1....2...3...4... -Matt | |||
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"So Western Europe along with Great Britain contributed nothing to what became the modern world? Nothing to do with mechanising manufacturing, the invention of trains, cars, aeroplanes, telecommunications, medicine and vaccines. You know what? I ain’t got the time to argue with such narrow mindedness. Just about everything we take for granted in this modern world started with the intelligence and inventiveness of our ancestors, it’s old money that paved the way for the new." I really do wonder what happens in your brain between the images of the words on the screen entering your eyes and your brain processing them. As you do seem to come up with some strange jumps in reasoning. Why do you get so outraged about things that have never been said? It’s like you purposefully make things up just to get outraged out them. Isn’t that exhausting? -Matt | |||
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"So Western Europe along with Great Britain contributed nothing to what became the modern world? Nothing to do with mechanising manufacturing, the invention of trains, cars, aeroplanes, telecommunications, medicine and vaccines. You know what? I ain’t got the time to argue with such narrow mindedness. Just about everything we take for granted in this modern world started with the intelligence and inventiveness of our ancestors, it’s old money that paved the way for the new." Bulls*it. Western Europe has invented plenty, but so has the rest of the world. Go check your facts perhaps. | |||
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"So Western Europe along with Great Britain contributed nothing to what became the modern world? Nothing to do with mechanising manufacturing, the invention of trains, cars, aeroplanes, telecommunications, medicine and vaccines. You know what? I ain’t got the time to argue with such narrow mindedness. Just about everything we take for granted in this modern world started with the intelligence and inventiveness of our ancestors, it’s old money that paved the way for the new. I really do wonder what happens in your brain between the images of the words on the screen entering your eyes and your brain processing them. As you do seem to come up with some strange jumps in reasoning. Why do you get so outraged about things that have never been said? It’s like you purposefully make things up just to get outraged out them. Isn’t that exhausting? -Matt" maybe we need to rename the strawman as the snowman ? | |||
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"I should have quoted the post that I was answering, so I will copy paste it below. [QUOTE] Every single aspect of our lives and culture, from the system of words and numbers through to high heels, pizza and Chinese takeaway, is an import from foreign culture and the migration of people to these islands. It is also true that, until relatively recently, these islands and their inhabitants, like most of western Europe, were a complete backwater that contributed nothing to human progress. It seems one or two of their descendants are still with us. [/QUOTE] " Aha. That gives you’re response more context than thinking you’d replied to Matt ! Apologies. | |||
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"What inventions/scientific discoveries and advances have come from Africa ?" You could peruse this ... http://www.risingafrica.org  | |||
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"The politicians have let all of us down since the referendum.They should have told the EU that we will discuss and agree a (free) trade agreement first, then everything else and in the meantime we will be negotiating free trade deals with the rest of the world, especially those with whom we already have a deal through membership of the EU.In the meantime making plans for a no deal exit." It amazes me that people still talk about a free trade deal. We have a free trade deal. We are walking away from it. It is simply not on the table to any non-member of the EU. And any country who negotiates a bilateral with the UK while UK is still a member of the EU will be in breach of their existing agreement with the EU. | |||
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"The politicians have let all of us down since the referendum.They should have told the EU that we will discuss and agree a (free) trade agreement first, then everything else and in the meantime we will be negotiating free trade deals with the rest of the world, especially those with whom we already have a deal through membership of the EU.In the meantime making plans for a no deal exit." Is this a look back through rose tinted glasses at how some thought the world worked during the golden halcyon days f empire? The UK calls the shots? In any event, the UK chose when to serve notice to the EU, so should have done so with an approximate plan. The Conservatives caused the referendum and have controlled the process since - many would insist that proves them a party unfit for power or a piss up in a brewery. The UK has been the beneficiary of the world's larges volume of trade deals, due to Its EU membership. The massive public ignorance of what it stood to lose as well as be unable to negotiate for many years anything but a tiny fraction of these and likely on terms that are nowhere nearly as good as those. The decline and fall of the UK empire | |||
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"The politicians have let all of us down since the referendum.They should have told the EU that we will discuss and agree a (free) trade agreement first, then everything else and in the meantime we will be negotiating free trade deals with the rest of the world, especially those with whom we already have a deal through membership of the EU.In the meantime making plans for a no deal exit. It amazes me that people still talk about a free trade deal. We have a free trade deal. We are walking away from it. It is simply not on the table to any non-member of the EU. And any country who negotiates a bilateral with the UK while UK is still a member of the EU will be in breach of their existing agreement with the EU. " What FREE trade deal? we pay in 350 gross a week thats not free | |||
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" What FREE trade deal? we pay in 350 gross a week thats not free" You are conflating membership of the EU with the single market and its four indivisible freedoms. The EU is a lot more than just the single market. A lot more. | |||
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" What FREE trade deal? we pay in 350 gross a week thats not free You are conflating membership of the EU with the single market and its four indivisible freedoms. The EU is a lot more than just the single market. A lot more. " Its the cost we pay to be in the single market, Iceland, norway and the swiss pay into the Eu to have access, so no its not a free market we pay to be in it. Yes the EU is a lot more its a political union that no one asked us if we wanted to be part of until 2016 and the majority said they didnt | |||
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" Its the cost we pay to be in the single market, Iceland, norway and the swiss pay into the Eu to have access, so no its not a free market we pay to be in it. Yes the EU is a lot more its a political union that no one asked us if we wanted to be part of until 2016 and the majority said they didnt" You talk as if the evolution of Europe was somehow imposed on the UK. The UK agreed to it at every turn of the wheel and signed up enthusiastically. So your beef is not with Johnny Foreigner, its with your own John Bull for doing something you disagreed with. I suspect it will cost the UK a lot more to be on the outside of the single market than it is to be on the inside. But that's something we won't know for certain for years and I doubt any of us will ever see a reliable comparison made. | |||
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" Its the cost we pay to be in the single market, Iceland, norway and the swiss pay into the Eu to have access, so no its not a free market we pay to be in it. Yes the EU is a lot more its a political union that no one asked us if we wanted to be part of until 2016 and the majority said they didnt You talk as if the evolution of Europe was somehow imposed on the UK. The UK agreed to it at every turn of the wheel and signed up enthusiastically. So your beef is not with Johnny Foreigner, its with your own John Bull for doing something you disagreed with. I suspect it will cost the UK a lot more to be on the outside of the single market than it is to be on the inside. But that's something we won't know for certain for years and I doubt any of us will ever see a reliable comparison made. " Nobody asked me if I wanted the masstricht treaty and its a hell of a stretch to say the uk signed up enthusiastically, have we been asked about fiscal convergeance,the EU army, or any of the drip drip steps to a US of Europe? WE need an euro wide vote on whether to go back to a simple trading block or full out US of E, let the people of europe decide not the politicians, they always look after themselves | |||
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"The politicians have let all of us down since the referendum.They should have told the EU that we will discuss and agree a (free) trade agreement first, then everything else and in the meantime we will be negotiating free trade deals with the rest of the world, especially those with whom we already have a deal through membership of the EU.In the meantime making plans for a no deal exit. Is this a look back through rose tinted glasses at how some thought the world worked during the golden halcyon days f empire? The UK calls the shots? In any event, the UK chose when to serve notice to the EU, so should have done so with an approximate plan. The Conservatives caused the referendum and have controlled the process since - many would insist that proves them a party unfit for power or a piss up in a brewery. The UK has been the beneficiary of the world's larges volume of trade deals, due to Its EU membership. The massive public ignorance of what it stood to lose as well as be unable to negotiate for many years anything but a tiny fraction of these and likely on terms that are nowhere nearly as good as those. The decline and fall of the UK empire "What empire? You and others keep telling us we haven't got one anymore but to add a bit of drama to what your saying it's ok to pretend we have! | |||
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" Its the cost we pay to be in the single market, Iceland, norway and the swiss pay into the Eu to have access, so no its not a free market we pay to be in it. Yes the EU is a lot more its a political union that no one asked us if we wanted to be part of until 2016 and the majority said they didnt You talk as if the evolution of Europe was somehow imposed on the UK. The UK agreed to it at every turn of the wheel and signed up enthusiastically. So your beef is not with Johnny Foreigner, its with your own John Bull for doing something you disagreed with. I suspect it will cost the UK a lot more to be on the outside of the single market than it is to be on the inside. But that's something we won't know for certain for years and I doubt any of us will ever see a reliable comparison made. Nobody asked me if I wanted the masstricht treaty and its a hell of a stretch to say the uk signed up enthusiastically, have we been asked about fiscal convergeance,the EU army, or any of the drip drip steps to a US of Europe? WE need an euro wide vote on whether to go back to a simple trading block or full out US of E, let the people of europe decide not the politicians, they always look after themselves" No one asked me if I wanted to accept the Lisbon treaty either, although Blair/Brown's Labour party promised a referendum on it but went back on their word and signed it anyway. John Major never got consent from the British people to sign the Maastrict treaty either and Blair/Brown never got consent from the British people to sign the Lisbon treaty. If the EU was in anyway democratic they would offer the whole of Europe referendums on treaty changes (or at least individual countries should ask their own domestic populations in referendums). | |||
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"Sam’s opinion is not uncommon, and is in many ways understandable. I’m not saying that I agree with it all, but I do believe he has a right to it. The flames have been fanned by uncontrolled immigration, the rise of radical Islam, and enforced political correctness stopping many people from objecting. If the so self righteous among us want to preserve their multicultural paradise, then they should start realising that some who come here should not be allowed, and many already here really don’t belong... great speech!!! my heart goes out to you... i think i need protecting from you lot.. after all most of the mass murderers in this country have been white men!!!! you lot are a menace!!!! "Don't turn two wrongs into two! This is exactly my problem with identity politics. You are unconsciously making the white man the enemy here rather than your friend and neighbour. You are wise and astute I know and I expect better than this, the other guy is an ignorant cretin from the last century so anything I say is already on deaf ears. Just be careful with this!!! | |||
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" Its the cost we pay to be in the single market, Iceland, norway and the swiss pay into the Eu to have access, so no its not a free market we pay to be in it. Yes the EU is a lot more its a political union that no one asked us if we wanted to be part of until 2016 and the majority said they didnt You talk as if the evolution of Europe was somehow imposed on the UK. The UK agreed to it at every turn of the wheel and signed up enthusiastically. So your beef is not with Johnny Foreigner, its with your own John Bull for doing something you disagreed with. I suspect it will cost the UK a lot more to be on the outside of the single market than it is to be on the inside. But that's something we won't know for certain for years and I doubt any of us will ever see a reliable comparison made. Nobody asked me if I wanted the masstricht treaty and its a hell of a stretch to say the uk signed up enthusiastically, have we been asked about fiscal convergeance,the EU army, or any of the drip drip steps to a US of Europe? WE need an euro wide vote on whether to go back to a simple trading block or full out US of E, let the people of europe decide not the politicians, they always look after themselves" Well, if you don't want a US of E, you are going to LOVE what Hannan's right-wing think tank, the IFT, has just come up with for us to be the 51st state of the US then. Insane. We will basically be dropping all standards for food in return for free trade and travel to the US. Oh, and as for the NHS? "Health services would benefit from foreign competition, although we recognise any change to existing regulations would be extremely controversial," -- IFT/Cato. In your mind, would you call that a 'success'? -Matt | |||
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"What inventions/scientific discoveries and advances have come from Africa ?" The banjo. | |||
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"What inventions/scientific discoveries and advances have come from Africa ?" Well 5 seconds on Google brings up: The CAT scan Extracting Oil from Coal The Heart transplant Pratley’s Putty (never heard of it, but apparently it held the Apollo Xi lander together) The Retinal Cryoprobe (used in cataract surgery) And that is just the first random list I found and only covers South Africa, not the rest of the continent. -Matt | |||
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"and yes,uncontrolled immigration is to blame for many of our troubles. Ok, simple question for you. If "uncontrolled" immigration is to blame for our troubles..... why do we have "double" the amount of controlled immigration ? If you have for arguments sake 100,000 EU immigrants from freedom of movement & 200,000 controlled immigrants, how do you blame the minority EU immigrants for our troubles and not the majority group double the amount ? Very interested in your opinion" Lack of opinions to difficult questions as normal | |||
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