FabSwingers.com forum: Boris

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Is getting tips from trump lol getting ready to take on the UK lol I give you fore warning lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is he forming dads army? Lol.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He only voiced what a lot of people think about the full burka! Yes maybe he caused a little offence but people need to grow a sence of humour

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"He only voiced what a lot of people think about the full burka! Yes maybe he caused a little offence but people need to grow a sence of humour

..err it wasn't funny, it's the kind of 'joke' you hear in a junior school playground.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He only voiced what a lot of people think about the full burka! Yes maybe he caused a little offence but people need to grow a sence of humour

..err it wasn't funny, it's the kind of 'joke' you hear in a junior school playground."

Couldn't agree more! If he wants a serious debate on the subject then table a bill in parliament! Let's do it properly for once, and if we want to ban it then pass a law - that's what politicians are supposed to do?

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By *athy1Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

"He only voiced what a lot of people think about the full burka! Yes maybe he caused a little offence but people need to grow a sence of humour

No humour in comments from the buffoon

Disgusting comments

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Go to Iran put on a big fuckoff crucifix and take a walk down any street

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Denmark have brought in fines for people in burkas

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wasn’t Boris’ position we shouldn’t ban it ?

It’s a clever article... even though his message was for not banning, the words and the jokes have resonated with an audiance which may have a different view on the world ....

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"Go to Iran put on a big fuckoff crucifix and take a walk down any street

That's a novel argument. Because other countries repress religious expression, we should as well...

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Wasn’t Boris’ position we shouldn’t ban it ?

It’s a clever article... even though his message was for not banning, the words and the jokes have resonated with an audiance which may have a different view on the world ...."

My point was he is getting tips from trumps pr men x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Go to Iran put on a big fuckoff crucifix and take a walk down any street

That's a novel argument. Because other countries repress religious expression, we should as well... "

Islam is repressive , take a look at Islamic countries around the world ,

By allowing Islam to get a foot hold in Europe is not a good idea, I know it's not going to happen next election but can you imagine what laws would be passed if there was an Islamic majority in parliament

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By *tace 309TV/TS
over a year ago

durham

"He only voiced what a lot of people think about the full burka! Yes maybe he caused a little offence but people need to grow a sence of humour

No humour in comments from the buffoon

Disgusting comments "
if you consider that was offensive god help the person who actually does offend someone . its time this country got a grip .the people who are inciting trouble are actually the ones kicking off pretty much about nothing . its typical of the modern day world .pathetic

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By *riveu2distractionMan
over a year ago

Nr Bridgend

86% of the U.K. Population are white

I can't see an Islamic take over any time soon. Boris and Trump are in the same league of sensational scaremongering for their own advantage and personal gain. Neither have statesman like qualities worthy or leading any country let alone superpower countries. There's more worthy news to report on. Just wish the media would focus their attentions elsewhere and not give these idiots the air time they get.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???"

Allowing women to wear what they want is hardly “bending over backwards”.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"Go to Iran put on a big fuckoff crucifix and take a walk down any street

That's a novel argument. Because other countries repress religious expression, we should as well...

Islam is repressive , take a look at Islamic countries around the world ,

Yes, as I said some countries repress religious expression. I find it difficult to understand why that is a good argument for the UK repressing religious expression.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Wasn’t Boris’ position we shouldn’t ban it ?

It’s a clever article... even though his message was for not banning, the words and the jokes have resonated with an audiance which may have a different view on the world ....

My point was he is getting tips from trumps pr men x"
sorry, was responding to the posts above me. I get annoyed with quoting on here tho !!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

Allowing women to wear what they want is hardly “bending over backwards”."
so you have no problem with me working in your local shop wearing a balaclava and a T shirt stay up the IRA ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Let’s ban football shirts while we’re at it.

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???"

What are you talking about 'putting up with their moronic ways'?

It's an item of bizarre clothing ffs, not a bill they're pressing through parliament!

Jesus if you're so offended by women in burkas you must be apoplectic when you see a man in a kilt, or a Morris dancer

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

Allowing women to wear what they want is hardly “bending over backwards”. so you have no problem with me working in your local shop wearing a balaclava and a T shirt stay up the IRA ?"

The outcome of this may be interesting:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6050159/Motorbike-instructor-accused-Shell-garage-racism-told-remove-helmet.html

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

What are you talking about 'putting up with their moronic ways'?

It's an item of bizarre clothing ffs, not a bill they're pressing through parliament!

Jesus if you're so offended by women in burkas you must be apoplectic when you see a man in a kilt, or a Morris dancer

I think I'd be fairly apoplectic if a man wore his kilt over his face in public, if following tradition of course

Morris Dancing is quintessentially English, recognised as part of English culture. Insulting Morris Dancers is no different to insulting another culture's traditions. It's racism

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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago

Cambridge

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

Allowing women to wear what they want is hardly “bending over backwards”. so you have no problem with me working in your local shop wearing a balaclava and a T shirt stay up the IRA ?

The outcome of this may be interesting:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6050159/Motorbike-instructor-accused-Shell-garage-racism-told-remove-helmet.html"

People who ride motorbikes are not considered a race.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

Allowing women to wear what they want is hardly “bending over backwards”. so you have no problem with me working in your local shop wearing a balaclava and a T shirt stay up the IRA ?"

This comment is so stupid it’s beyond belief and not worthy of a responce.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

Allowing women to wear what they want is hardly “bending over backwards”. so you have no problem with me working in your local shop wearing a balaclava and a T shirt stay up the IRA ?

The outcome of this may be interesting:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6050159/Motorbike-instructor-accused-Shell-garage-racism-told-remove-helmet.html"

I saw this was not allowed access with his helmet on x

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

What are you talking about 'putting up with their moronic ways'?

It's an item of bizarre clothing ffs, not a bill they're pressing through parliament!

Jesus if you're so offended by women in burkas you must be apoplectic when you see a man in a kilt, or a Morris dancer

I think I'd be fairly apoplectic if a man wore his kilt over his face in public, if following tradition of course

Morris Dancing is quintessentially English, recognised as part of English culture. Insulting Morris Dancers is no different to insulting another culture's traditions. It's racism

I chose those two examples quite deliberately, because they're culturally iconic, but more importantly they're a choice people are FREE to make without the need to justify that choice to anyone or for them to be formally recognised as part of 'British culture', whatever that might be.

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

Allowing women to wear what they want is hardly “bending over backwards”. so you have no problem with me working in your local shop wearing a balaclava and a T shirt stay up the IRA ?

The outcome of this may be interesting:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6050159/Motorbike-instructor-accused-Shell-garage-racism-told-remove-helmet.html

I saw this was not allowed access with his helmet on x"

That denial of access was a commercial choice made by the retailer, it wasn't a prohibition of helmet wearing endorsed legislatively by the state.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

The irony of Boris Johnson giving anyone advice on their appearance seems to have been lost in a rush to condemn women of a "foreign" culture.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

Allowing women to wear what they want is hardly “bending over backwards”. so you have no problem with me working in your local shop wearing a balaclava and a T shirt stay up the IRA ?"

Is that ' up [with] the IRA ' or ' up [yours] the IRA '

Interpretation is everything.

Boiled down, what Boris actually said was that however ridiculous you may think what someone chooses to wear is it is, and should always remain, their right to choose. I agree totally with him on that.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

What are you talking about 'putting up with their moronic ways'?

It's an item of bizarre clothing ffs, not a bill they're pressing through parliament!

Jesus if you're so offended by women in burkas you must be apoplectic when you see a man in a kilt, or a Morris dancer

And women in trousers while we're at it.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"The irony of Boris Johnson giving anyone advice on their appearance seems to have been lost in a rush to condemn women of a "foreign" culture."

And an even bigger rush to condemned Boris.

I'm no fan of BoJo but I have to say this outrage towards Boris seems to me to be more motivated by a dislike for Boris (which I fully understand) than a concern for the rights of people to wear what they choose.

That being said, if BoJo was the statesman he thinks he is he wouldn't have made the offending remarks in the first place and, if he wasn't the self published that he clearly is, he would have apologised for any offence caused by now so that the message; which was that however ridiculous it may seem to others, people should be allowed to dress as they choose; could be clearly understood.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

He is still on the front pages a week later. People are still talking about him. Because he picked a subject that affects virtually no-one, but presses the hate button of so many.

The Steve Bannon effect.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Steve Bannon, warns Boris not to “bow at the altar of political correctness” by apologising.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

What are you talking about 'putting up with their moronic ways'?

It's an item of bizarre clothing ffs, not a bill they're pressing through parliament!

Jesus if you're so offended by women in burkas you must be apoplectic when you see a man in a kilt, or a Morris dancer

men in kilts or morris dancers

Don't have a tendency to spontaneously explode

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Steve Bannon, warns Boris not to “bow at the altar of political correctness” by apologising.

He has nothing to apologize for he is every bit as entitled to say what he thinks as someone to go around in a burka,

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

What are you talking about 'putting up with their moronic ways'?

It's an item of bizarre clothing ffs, not a bill they're pressing through parliament!

Jesus if you're so offended by women in burkas you must be apoplectic when you see a man in a kilt, or a Morris dancer

men in kilts or morris dancers

Don't have a tendency to spontaneously explode "

Nor do women in burkas or perhaps you're forgetting that the vast majority of Islamic terrorists are more likely to wear chinos and Timberland than they are a burka.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Steve Bannon, warns Boris not to “bow at the altar of political correctness” by apologising.

He has nothing to apologize for he is every bit as entitled to say what he thinks as someone to go around in a burka, "

I agree he shouldn’t apologise, he should resign. An apology would be bullshit, he wouldn’t mean a word of it. Bigots should have no place in public office.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

if boris tried to run for tory leader and was to somehow win... he would split the party in two!!!

i think a tory councillor actually said it best the other day..... the conservatives will go from being the "one nation" party they profess to be... to being the party of "english nationalism".....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

What are you talking about 'putting up with their moronic ways'?

It's an item of bizarre clothing ffs, not a bill they're pressing through parliament!

Jesus if you're so offended by women in burkas you must be apoplectic when you see a man in a kilt, or a Morris dancer

men in kilts or morris dancers

Don't have a tendency to spontaneously explode "

Men in football kits have a tendency to cause mass violence.

Let’s ban football kits.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Boris should be apologising as a journalist more than an MP. The entitle article was poorly written and the attempts at humour were tired and cliched. Apparently he’s said he writes his articles in 30 minutes !!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"if boris tried to run for tory leader and was to somehow win... he would split the party in two!!!

i think a tory councillor actually said it best the other day..... the conservatives will go from being the "one nation" party they profess to be... to being the party of "english nationalism"....."

What would be wrong with English nationalism ,

Or irish nationalism , or French nationalism , Iranian nationalism

Or Pakistani nationalism, ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There’s nothing wrong with it. But if you are looking to form the British government it is alienating parts of the wider demographic. They’d need to do better in England as they’d probably lose the Scottish Cons.

The key as to whether this is a *god idea* is how Boris and englandism would be taken in the marginals. Or whether it would extend leads in safe seats.

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

What are you talking about 'putting up with their moronic ways'?

It's an item of bizarre clothing ffs, not a bill they're pressing through parliament!

Jesus if you're so offended by women in burkas you must be apoplectic when you see a man in a kilt, or a Morris dancer

men in kilts or morris dancers

Don't have a tendency to spontaneously explode

Men in football kits have a tendency to cause mass violence.

Let’s ban football kits. "

Excellent

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"if boris tried to run for tory leader and was to somehow win... he would split the party in two!!!

i think a tory councillor actually said it best the other day..... the conservatives will go from being the "one nation" party they profess to be... to being the party of "english nationalism".....

What would be wrong with English nationalism ,

Or irish nationalism , or French nationalism , Iranian nationalism

Or Pakistani nationalism, ?

Nothing, provided it doesn't assume some members of the community are superior to others due to their ethnic background, this is why I have less of a problem with Scottish nationalism than I do the English variety.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

What are you talking about 'putting up with their moronic ways'?

It's an item of bizarre clothing ffs, not a bill they're pressing through parliament!

Jesus if you're so offended by women in burkas you must be apoplectic when you see a man in a kilt, or a Morris dancer

men in kilts or morris dancers

Don't have a tendency to spontaneously explode

Men in football kits have a tendency to cause mass violence.

Let’s ban football kits.

Excellent

Not really "excellent". Football fans don't really cause "mass" violence, more "localised". How about this one, Men in military uniforms tend to cause mass violence. Let's ban the armed forces

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Steve Bannon, warns Boris not to “bow at the altar of political correctness” by apologising.

But he would though wouldn't he, hardly surprising and Bannon is hardly in the centre stage of social development.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"if boris tried to run for tory leader and was to somehow win... he would split the party in two!!!

i think a tory councillor actually said it best the other day..... the conservatives will go from being the "one nation" party they profess to be... to being the party of "english nationalism".....

What would be wrong with English nationalism ,

Or irish nationalism , or French nationalism , Iranian nationalism

Or Pakistani nationalism, ?

because you then get the likes of the idiot "christine hamilton" who then in supporting boris compared the burka today to a KKK hood....

boris opens these doors for others to stumble thru and make prize tits of themselves!!!!

there is a difference between patriotism.. nationalism and jingoism

boris is basically spouting jingoism hiding behind free speech

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

What are you talking about 'putting up with their moronic ways'?

It's an item of bizarre clothing ffs, not a bill they're pressing through parliament!

Jesus if you're so offended by women in burkas you must be apoplectic when you see a man in a kilt, or a Morris dancer

men in kilts or morris dancers

Don't have a tendency to spontaneously explode

Men in football kits have a tendency to cause mass violence.

Let’s ban football kits.

Excellent

Not really "excellent". Football fans don't really cause "mass" violence, more "localised". How about this one, Men in military uniforms tend to cause mass violence. Let's ban the armed forces

Forgive me, but I'm not calling for a ban of anything, the previous examples of kilts, Morris Dancers and football kits are merely extreme analogies to demonstrate how ridiculous the subject matter is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"if boris tried to run for tory leader and was to somehow win... he would split the party in two!!!

i think a tory councillor actually said it best the other day..... the conservatives will go from being the "one nation" party they profess to be... to being the party of "english nationalism".....

What would be wrong with English nationalism ,

Or irish nationalism , or French nationalism , Iranian nationalism

Or Pakistani nationalism, ?

Nationalism is the same in every country it's pride in and loyalty to one's country ,

And there is nothing wrong with that ,

If you you keep your home clean and tidy , will you accept someone calling over every other day that walked in the door in muddy boots sat on the couch smoking cigarettes and through the buts on the floor ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"if boris tried to run for tory leader and was to somehow win... he would split the party in two!!!

i think a tory councillor actually said it best the other day..... the conservatives will go from being the "one nation" party they profess to be... to being the party of "english nationalism".....

What would be wrong with English nationalism ,

Or irish nationalism , or French nationalism , Iranian nationalism

Or Pakistani nationalism, ?

Nationalism is the same in every country it's pride in and loyalty to one's country ,

And there is nothing wrong with that ,

"
do you assume all visitors are dirtier than you ? My assumption is everyone tends to keep their own house clean and therefore will treat mine similarly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"if boris tried to run for tory leader and was to somehow win... he would split the party in two!!!

i think a tory councillor actually said it best the other day..... the conservatives will go from being the "one nation" party they profess to be... to being the party of "english nationalism".....

What would be wrong with English nationalism ,

Or irish nationalism , or French nationalism , Iranian nationalism

Or Pakistani nationalism, ?

because you then get the likes of the idiot "christine hamilton" who then in supporting boris compared the burka today to a KKK hood....

boris opens these doors for others to stumble thru and make prize tits of themselves!!!!

there is a difference between patriotism.. nationalism and jingoism

boris is basically spouting jingoism hiding behind free speech"

jingoism !!!

So what is an acceptable ,level of loyalty to ones country ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"if boris tried to run for tory leader and was to somehow win... he would split the party in two!!!

i think a tory councillor actually said it best the other day..... the conservatives will go from being the "one nation" party they profess to be... to being the party of "english nationalism".....

What would be wrong with English nationalism ,

Or irish nationalism , or French nationalism , Iranian nationalism

Or Pakistani nationalism, ?

Nationalism is the same in every country it's pride in and loyalty to one's country ,

And there is nothing wrong with that ,

do you assume all visitors are dirtier than you ? My assumption is everyone tends to keep their own house clean and therefore will treat mine similarly. "

So you expect visitors to treat your home the same as you would ,

And if they don't you won't invite them back ,

So when a visitor to a country can't respect the customs of the country they are visiting , you show them the way to the airport ,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"if boris tried to run for tory leader and was to somehow win... he would split the party in two!!!

i think a tory councillor actually said it best the other day..... the conservatives will go from being the "one nation" party they profess to be... to being the party of "english nationalism".....

What would be wrong with English nationalism ,

Or irish nationalism , or French nationalism , Iranian nationalism

Or Pakistani nationalism, ?

Nationalism is the same in every country it's pride in and loyalty to one's country ,

And there is nothing wrong with that ,

do you assume all visitors are dirtier than you ? My assumption is everyone tends to keep their own house clean and therefore will treat mine similarly.

So you expect visitors to treat your home the same as you would ,

And if they don't you won't invite them back ,

So when a visitor to a country can't respect the customs of the country they are visiting , you show them the way to the airport , "

I’m more accomadating than that. If my guest is a vegetarian I don’t serve them steak. If they help with the cooking and use a spice I’m not used to, I will see if it makes the dish better. Being proud of your house doesn’t mean your house is the superior to all other houses by default.

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By *rMrsWestMidsCouple
over a year ago

Dudley

"if boris tried to run for tory leader and was to somehow win... he would split the party in two!!!

i think a tory councillor actually said it best the other day..... the conservatives will go from being the "one nation" party they profess to be... to being the party of "english nationalism".....

What would be wrong with English nationalism ,

Or irish nationalism , or French nationalism , Iranian nationalism

Or Pakistani nationalism, ?

Nationalism is the same in every country it's pride in and loyalty to one's country ,

And there is nothing wrong with that ,

do you assume all visitors are dirtier than you ? My assumption is everyone tends to keep their own house clean and therefore will treat mine similarly. "

Unfortunately there are a lot of people who don't keep their houses clean, take it from someone who knows!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"if boris tried to run for tory leader and was to somehow win... he would split the party in two!!!

i think a tory councillor actually said it best the other day..... the conservatives will go from being the "one nation" party they profess to be... to being the party of "english nationalism".....

What would be wrong with English nationalism ,

Or irish nationalism , or French nationalism , Iranian nationalism

Or Pakistani nationalism, ?

Nationalism is the same in every country it's pride in and loyalty to one's country ,

And there is nothing wrong with that ,

do you assume all visitors are dirtier than you ? My assumption is everyone tends to keep their own house clean and therefore will treat mine similarly.

So you expect visitors to treat your home the same as you would ,

And if they don't you won't invite them back ,

So when a visitor to a country can't respect the customs of the country they are visiting , you show them the way to the airport ,

Nationalism don't automatically assume superiority ,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"if boris tried to run for tory leader and was to somehow win... he would split the party in two!!!

i think a tory councillor actually said it best the other day..... the conservatives will go from being the "one nation" party they profess to be... to being the party of "english nationalism".....

What would be wrong with English nationalism ,

Or irish nationalism , or French nationalism , Iranian nationalism

Or Pakistani nationalism, ?

Nationalism is the same in every country it's pride in and loyalty to one's country ,

And there is nothing wrong with that ,

do you assume all visitors are dirtier than you ? My assumption is everyone tends to keep their own house clean and therefore will treat mine similarly.

So you expect visitors to treat your home the same as you would ,

And if they don't you won't invite them back ,

So when a visitor to a country can't respect the customs of the country they are visiting , you show them the way to the airport ,

Nationalism don't automatically assume superiority ,

"
i know. But your analogy came after a post on superiority. You also kicked people out your house for not following your customs. Tbh analogies aren’t always the best for getting a point over, so apologies if I’ve misinterpreted your point, and put words in your mouth here. Must admit I’ve lost track a bit of where this side debate came from !!!

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"if boris tried to run for tory leader and was to somehow win... he would split the party in two!!!

i think a tory councillor actually said it best the other day..... the conservatives will go from being the "one nation" party they profess to be... to being the party of "english nationalism".....

What would be wrong with English nationalism ,

Or irish nationalism , or French nationalism , Iranian nationalism

Or Pakistani nationalism, ?

Nationalism is the same in every country it's pride in and loyalty to one's country ,

And there is nothing wrong with that

You're quite right but I'm afraid the majority of nationalists in England have perverted domestic nationalism into some nonsense about race.

Remember Griffin and his ham fisted attempt to describe non whites as 'civically British'?

That alienated a lot of proud British non white citizens who work bloody hard, contribute and don't rock anyone's boat unlike many of the feckless indigenous.

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"If you you keep your home clean and tidy , will you accept someone calling over every other day that walked in the door in muddy boots sat on the couch smoking cigarettes and through the buts on the floor ?

How does this equate to nationalism, there are plenty of British people, black, white & Asian who have no respect for their country.

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By *ystical_InkedBBWWoman
over a year ago

somewhere in the Shire of Derby

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

Allowing women to wear what they want is hardly “bending over backwards”. so you have no problem with me working in your local shop wearing a balaclava and a T shirt stay up the IRA ?

The outcome of this may be interesting:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6050159/Motorbike-instructor-accused-Shell-garage-racism-told-remove-helmet.html"

Having worked in service stations the reason they ask people to remove their crash helmets etc is because a lot of robberies from service stations, banks, post offices etc are carried out by men who have covered their faces by wearing crash helmets, hoodies and bandanas, balaclavas, scarves. Nothing at all to do with race, purely because that is the most used method, and you don't see women wearing niqabs and burkas robbing service stations, banks and post offices etc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

Allowing women to wear what they want is hardly “bending over backwards”. so you have no problem with me working in your local shop wearing a balaclava and a T shirt stay up the IRA ?

The outcome of this may be interesting:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6050159/Motorbike-instructor-accused-Shell-garage-racism-told-remove-helmet.html

You need to do your research more thoroughly - there are instances where robberies and other crimes have been carried by "people" wearing burkas as a disguise. Also, what your saying is that the Shell staff member made the determination that an Asian women in a burka wasn't likely to commit a crime, but a white man in a crash helmet was. That is both racist and sexist, so well-done for hitting the double

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

Allowing women to wear what they want is hardly “bending over backwards”. so you have no problem with me working in your local shop wearing a balaclava and a T shirt stay up the IRA ?

The outcome of this may be interesting:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6050159/Motorbike-instructor-accused-Shell-garage-racism-told-remove-helmet.html

There was a conviction last week of three men who abducted and killed a Leicester gold dealer. One of the men, who were all white, used a bhurka as a disguise .

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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago

Barbados

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

Allowing women to wear what they want is hardly “bending over backwards”. so you have no problem with me working in your local shop wearing a balaclava and a T shirt stay up the IRA ?

The outcome of this may be interesting:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6050159/Motorbike-instructor-accused-Shell-garage-racism-told-remove-helmet.html

There was a conviction last week of three men who abducted and killed a Leicester gold dealer. One of the men, who were all white, used a bhurka as a disguise ."

Fuck. I love my wife in stockings. What are we going to do when we ban them after all those bank robbers that put them over their faces?

-Matt

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It’s about degrees of proportionality and pragamatusm.

There is no strong reason why someone has to keep their helmet on. So to ask them to remove seems proportional. No harm is done. But there is a benefit.

I would imagine the ruling was brought in as a response to the situation. As and when burkas become the disguise of choice, we may see the world change.

But based on a the recent headlines the most dangerous type of burka wearer is a white male rather than an Asian female !!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

Allowing women to wear what they want is hardly “bending over backwards”. so you have no problem with me working in your local shop wearing a balaclava and a T shirt stay up the IRA ?

The outcome of this may be interesting:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6050159/Motorbike-instructor-accused-Shell-garage-racism-told-remove-helmet.html

There was a conviction last week of three men who abducted and killed a Leicester gold dealer. One of the men, who were all white, used a bhurka as a disguise ."

Just a very quick Google -

Yassin Omar, the failed 21/7 bomber who evaded police by wearing a burka belonging to his mother-in-law.

Mustaf Jama, the Somali asylum seeker who killed PC Sharon Beshenivsky in 2005 before fleeing Britain dressed in a niqab, using his sister’s passport.

Here's another:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1209006/Jewellers-robbery-Oxfordshire-burka-clad-man--150-000-designer-watches-stolen.html

From the US - "the Philadelphia region has had 15 robberies (or attempted robberies) of financial institutions in the past six years in which the thieves relied on an Islamic full-body cover."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

Allowing women to wear what they want is hardly “bending over backwards”. so you have no problem with me working in your local shop wearing a balaclava and a T shirt stay up the IRA ?

The outcome of this may be interesting:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6050159/Motorbike-instructor-accused-Shell-garage-racism-told-remove-helmet.html

There was a conviction last week of three men who abducted and killed a Leicester gold dealer. One of the men, who were all white, used a bhurka as a disguise .

Fuck. I love my wife in stockings. What are we going to do when we ban them after all those bank robbers that put them over their faces?

-Matt"

This is a very silly analogy. If you saw somebody with a stocking over their head, you'd assume they were up to no good. If you see someone with their face covered by a burka, you have no idea that they haven't just committed a crime and are deliberately hiding their face as in the cases in my last post?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

However, if you want real irony, get your heads around this little factoid. Niqabs and burqas are banned in Mecca, Islam's holiest city. What do you champions of cultural oppression think of that?

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By *ystical_InkedBBWWoman
over a year ago

somewhere in the Shire of Derby

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

Allowing women to wear what they want is hardly “bending over backwards”. so you have no problem with me working in your local shop wearing a balaclava and a T shirt stay up the IRA ?

The outcome of this may be interesting:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6050159/Motorbike-instructor-accused-Shell-garage-racism-told-remove-helmet.html

Not at all, I didn't need to read the article as I was given petsonal experience of working in the environment. It's not sexist nor racist to say a woman hasn't committed that kind of crime wearing a niqab or burka if evidence shows that they haven't and as you have kindly showed in the research you provided, all were men.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So the burka should be banned because in a an area of c 2 to 4m there are c two incidences a year of men using it is as a disguise ?

Yet I suspect many who are pro banning (in the US at least) would go mad on a banning of guns. Despite their high use in robberies ....

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"However, if you want real irony, get your heads around this little factoid. Niqabs and burqas are banned in Mecca, Islam's holiest city. What do you champions of cultural oppression think of that?

..err that Mecca is a champion of cultural oppression.

You seem to be confusing the view that people who don't support a ban on the burka are sympathetic to Islam or are fans of the burka.

Just for the record I think it's a ridiculous garment, but it's none of my business what people choose to wear.

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

Allowing women to wear what they want is hardly “bending over backwards”. so you have no problem with me working in your local shop wearing a balaclava and a T shirt stay up the IRA ?

The outcome of this may be interesting:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6050159/Motorbike-instructor-accused-Shell-garage-racism-told-remove-helmet.html

There was a conviction last week of three men who abducted and killed a Leicester gold dealer. One of the men, who were all white, used a bhurka as a disguise .

Fuck. I love my wife in stockings. What are we going to do when we ban them after all those bank robbers that put them over their faces?

-Matt

But as other posters have asked, what's the incidence of burka clad people committing crime??

Personally I can only think of a handful in the last 15 years (that have been reported), it appears other forms of 'disguise' are more attractive to criminals.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

Allowing women to wear what they want is hardly “bending over backwards”. so you have no problem with me working in your local shop wearing a balaclava and a T shirt stay up the IRA ?

The outcome of this may be interesting:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6050159/Motorbike-instructor-accused-Shell-garage-racism-told-remove-helmet.html

So how did the Shell employee know the burka wearer was female? He/she assumed, and is therefore both sexist and racist for that assumption, which you support.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

As said on last leg would rather sit next to someone in a burka than a dick in a suit

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"However, if you want real irony, get your heads around this little factoid. Niqabs and burqas are banned in Mecca, Islam's holiest city. What do you champions of cultural oppression think of that?

..err that Mecca is a champion of cultural oppression.

You seem to be confusing the view that people who don't support a ban on the burka are sympathetic to Islam or are fans of the burka.

Just for the record I think it's a ridiculous garment, but it's none of my business what people choose to wear."

Wrong. Authorities in Mecca are concerned that Muslims from different factions may commit acts of terroism against each other, and the that perpetrators may diguise themselves behind burqas to evade capture. So basically, they're banned to prevent crime. What were your reasons for British people being denied this protection again? Are you actually in favour of women being repressed?

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

The problem with English nationalism, or the opportunity, is that it has one destination - an England independent of the EU, the UK and everyone else.

Take back control, eh?

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By *ystical_InkedBBWWoman
over a year ago

somewhere in the Shire of Derby

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

Allowing women to wear what they want is hardly “bending over backwards”. so you have no problem with me working in your local shop wearing a balaclava and a T shirt stay up the IRA ?

The outcome of this may be interesting:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6050159/Motorbike-instructor-accused-Shell-garage-racism-told-remove-helmet.html

So how did the Shell employee know the burka wearer was female? He/she assumed, and is therefore both sexist and racist for that assumption, which you support.

Having read the article it states that the shop adjacent to the station said 'they believed tbe woman was wearing a hijab' so to me that is pretty evident and her face could clearly be seen and that she indeed was female. Also possible that the instructor doesn't know the difference between a hijab, a niqab and a burqa. If company policy states that staff have to ask motorbikers to remove helmets then the member of staff was doing their job. If on previous occasions staff haven't done so then they have not been doing their job properly and should in effect be disciplined for it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

Allowing women to wear what they want is hardly “bending over backwards”. so you have no problem with me working in your local shop wearing a balaclava and a T shirt stay up the IRA ?

The outcome of this may be interesting:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6050159/Motorbike-instructor-accused-Shell-garage-racism-told-remove-helmet.html

So how did the Shell employee know the burka wearer was female? He/she assumed, and is therefore both sexist and racist for that assumption, which you support.

No. The shell employee has been told to ask people who were motor cycle helmets to remove them. And not burkas. I support people doing their job

Is shells rule sexist or racist ? I think it’s proportional based on the risks involved.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"However, if you want real irony, get your heads around this little factoid. Niqabs and burqas are banned in Mecca, Islam's holiest city. What do you champions of cultural oppression think of that?

..err that Mecca is a champion of cultural oppression.

You seem to be confusing the view that people who don't support a ban on the burka are sympathetic to Islam or are fans of the burka.

Just for the record I think it's a ridiculous garment, but it's none of my business what people choose to wear.

I think the subject does need debate, but there are ways of doing things. Other countries in Europe have banned the garment but they passed a law. When are we going to learn that you can't please everyone all the time? Debate it vote on it and take action depending on the result!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't like Johnson ,

But in this case he is dead right.

I'm a Muslim moved to Europe why should we put up with there ways ,

If I went to Iran , I wouldn't expect them to bend over backwards for me ,

And second point if Muslim s can ware burkas , and say it's there ethnic identity ,

Can I ware a balaclava cause I'm a provo ???

Allowing women to wear what they want is hardly “bending over backwards”. so you have no problem with me working in your local shop wearing a balaclava and a T shirt stay up the IRA ?

The outcome of this may be interesting:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6050159/Motorbike-instructor-accused-Shell-garage-racism-told-remove-helmet.html

So how did the Shell employee know the burka wearer was female? He/she assumed, and is therefore both sexist and racist for that assumption, which you support.

No. The shell employee has been told to ask people who were motor cycle helmets to remove them. And not burkas. I support people doing their job

Is shells rule sexist or racist ? I think it’s proportional based on the risks involved. "

Then Shell need to be approached regarding the wording of their "rules". Just because a company makes these "rules", it doesn't actually make them legal.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think people need to read the views of Dr Taj Hargey, imam at the Oxford Islamic Congregation. This guy is a senior imam, and an expert on Islam. If your views counter his, please explain why and let us know what qualifications to speak on behalf of Islam you have.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"However, if you want real irony, get your heads around this little factoid. Niqabs and burqas are banned in Mecca, Islam's holiest city. What do you champions of cultural oppression think of that?

..err that Mecca is a champion of cultural oppression.

You seem to be confusing the view that people who don't support a ban on the burka are sympathetic to Islam or are fans of the burka.

Just for the record I think it's a ridiculous garment, but it's none of my business what people choose to wear.

Is this true ? I’ve tried to find out and get answers along the lines of it not being allowed for pilgrims on the Hajj. But not banned in general.

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"However, if you want real irony, get your heads around this little factoid. Niqabs and burqas are banned in Mecca, Islam's holiest city. What do you champions of cultural oppression think of that?

..err that Mecca is a champion of cultural oppression.

You seem to be confusing the view that people who don't support a ban on the burka are sympathetic to Islam or are fans of the burka.

Just for the record I think it's a ridiculous garment, but it's none of my business what people choose to wear.

You're using the oppressive regime in a foreign country to demonstrate what should form policy in the UK, extending that logic they also ban alcohol in Mecca, should we ban booze too?

The fact is I've seen no comprehensive evidence that demonstrates it's a garment of oppression, and I certainly don't believe we should replace one form of oppression with another. Nor do I think banning the burka changes the behaviour of misogynists, which if you've a sincere interest in the freedom of women should be your main concern.

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I think people need to read the views of Dr Taj Hargey, imam at the Oxford Islamic Congregation. This guy is a senior imam, and an expert on Islam. If your views counter his, please explain why and let us know what qualifications to speak on behalf of Islam you have."

You continue to miss the point.

Whether there's a religious reason or not to wear the burka is irrelevant (as far as I'm concerned), if someone wants to walk around wearing a Darth Vader suit because they believe they're Jedi's is entirely up to them, it's bugger all my business!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You continue to miss the point.

And it's not illegal more to the point!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You continue to miss the point.

I think you miss my point, but I'll clarify. I believe Burqas and niqabs are a deliberate ploy by some members of the faith to repress women. They can be harmful to women both pyschlogically and physically. Many Islamic scholars also take this view. Let me ask you, if you believed that burqas and niqabs were insisted upon by men to enforce subjugation of women, would you change your view? If so, what proof would you need?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You continue to miss the point.

As a previous poster put better than I, if men are using burqas as a form of oppression, would banning it really help ? Or so we need to focus on the oppression.

While some may use it as a tool, do others wear it out of choice ? If so, do we have the right to oppress their choice because others abuse it? It’s a similar argument to the motorcycle helmet... are you punishing the innocent female Muslims because of the crimes of the few who are not female Muslims ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You continue to miss the point.

As a previous poster put better than I, if men are using burqas as a form of oppression, would banning it really help ? Or so we need to focus on the oppression.

Sometimes laws have to be passed that some disagree with, but many approve of. I don't like wearing a seatbelt, and it would only affect me if I crash. But I have to, by law. If, by my choice, I chose to wear nothing in the street, I would be arrested (as per the "naked traveller"). My freedom to make that choice has been taken away, by law.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You continue to miss the point.

As a previous poster put better than I, if men are using burqas as a form of oppression, would banning it really help ? Or so we need to focus on the oppression.

The lengths some people go to justify their horrible opinions!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You continue to miss the point.

As a previous poster put better than I, if men are using burqas as a form of oppression, would banning it really help ? Or so we need to focus on the oppression.

The lengths some people go to justify their horrible opinions!"

Wishing to stop oppression of women is a horrible opinion? What a typical white-privelege male thing to say.

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

As I said if this garment is a symbol of male oppression then it's behaviour change in Muslim men that needs to be addressed, not what women wear.

Let me flip the argument, if you encountered Muslim women who wore the garment through choice would you change your view or simply maintain they were misguided?

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

You continue to miss the point.

As a previous poster put better than I, if men are using burqas as a form of oppression, would banning it really help ? Or so we need to focus on the oppression.

The lengths some people go to justify their horrible opinions!

Wishing to stop oppression of women is a horrible opinion? What a typical white-privelege male thing to say."

The trouble is based on your contributions to this thread I've seen zero evidence that you have the interests of burka wearing women at heart.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You continue to miss the point.

As a previous poster put better than I, if men are using burqas as a form of oppression, would banning it really help ? Or so we need to focus on the oppression.

It doesn’t just affect you though. It affects anyone involved in the accident. And those witnessing it.

There also no harm in making this law. You’re protecting everybody, harming no one, even though you are taking away choice.

Better examples would be guns, tobacco, alcohol, even sugar.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As I said if this garment is a symbol of male oppression then it's behaviour change in Muslim men that needs to be addressed, not what women wear.

Let me flip the argument, if you encountered Muslim women who wore the garment through choice would you change your view or simply maintain they were misguided?"

Well, you actually avoided answering most of my questions, but I will answer yours. Yes, if I encountered Muslim women who wore the garment through choice and I could prove that they weren't subliminally coerced into wearing the garment by either culture or misogyny, then yes, I would change my view. Did you read the views of Dr Taj Hargey? Are you able to tell me how your qualifications regarding Islamic doctrine are superior to his?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You continue to miss the point.

As a previous poster put better than I, if men are using burqas as a form of oppression, would banning it really help ? Or so we need to focus on the oppression.

The lengths some people go to justify their horrible opinions!

Wishing to stop oppression of women is a horrible opinion? What a typical white-privelege male thing to say."

There more white privalage in trying to ban something that has zero impact on them because of (potentially misplaced) fears. This thread detoured from oppression to fear of burglary not so long ago, so it’s hard to think everyone here is doing it for the oppressed Muslim womenfolk.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You continue to miss the point.

As a previous poster put better than I, if men are using burqas as a form of oppression, would banning it really help ? Or so we need to focus on the oppression.

It doesn’t just affect you though. It affects anyone involved in the accident. And those witnessing it.

There also no harm in making this law. You’re protecting everybody, harming no one, even though you are taking away choice.

Better examples would be guns, tobacco, alcohol, even sugar. "

In what way exactly does it affect anyone involved in the accident and those witnessing it. Because the sight of it may cause distress to some? A bit like the sight of a covered face may cause distress to some? Deaf people who lip-read, for example? Disabled people who look at human faces to determine emotion? People who have been involved in incidents where the perpetrator was masked?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As I said if this garment is a symbol of male oppression then it's behaviour change in Muslim men that needs to be addressed, not what women wear.

Let me flip the argument, if you encountered Muslim women who wore the garment through choice would you change your view or simply maintain they were misguided?

Other than Dr Hargey (notable for being in the press atm) have you sought many Muslim views on this ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You continue to miss the point.

As a previous poster put better than I, if men are using burqas as a form of oppression, would banning it really help ? Or so we need to focus on the oppression.

The lengths some people go to justify their horrible opinions!

Wishing to stop oppression of women is a horrible opinion? What a typical white-privelege male thing to say.

Yes, this thread thread has detoured from oppression to fear of burglary. These concerns are both very good reasons for face-coverings to be banned in public.

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

As I said if this garment is a symbol of male oppression then it's behaviour change in Muslim men that needs to be addressed, not what women wear.

Let me flip the argument, if you encountered Muslim women who wore the garment through choice would you change your view or simply maintain they were misguided?

Let's make it painfully simple for you..IVE ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST IN ISLAMIC DOCTRINE OR WHAT A MAN HAS TO SAY ABOUT WHAT A WOMAN WEARS.

If a woman wears it because she believes it has some religious significance-thats fine by me.

If a woman wears it because she doesn't wish to reveal her face to Joe Public-that's fine by me.

If a woman wears it to keep out the cold-thats fine by me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As I said if this garment is a symbol of male oppression then it's behaviour change in Muslim men that needs to be addressed, not what women wear.

Let me flip the argument, if you encountered Muslim women who wore the garment through choice would you change your view or simply maintain they were misguided?

Other than Dr Hargey (notable for being in the press atm) have you sought many Muslim views on this ? "

there's a whole wealth of knowledge available on the web

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As I said if this garment is a symbol of male oppression then it's behaviour change in Muslim men that needs to be addressed, not what women wear.

Let me flip the argument, if you encountered Muslim women who wore the garment through choice would you change your view or simply maintain they were misguided?

Let's make it painfully simple for you..IVE ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST IN ISLAMIC DOCTRINE OR WHAT A MAN HAS TO SAY ABOUT WHAT A WOMAN WEARS.

If a woman wears it because she believes it has some religious significance-thats fine by me.

If a woman wears it because she doesn't wish to reveal her face to Joe Public-that's fine by me.

If a woman wears it to keep out the cold-thats fine by me."

And if a woman is forced to wear it by male peers is that also fine by you?

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

As I said if this garment is a symbol of male oppression then it's behaviour change in Muslim men that needs to be addressed, not what women wear.

Let me flip the argument, if you encountered Muslim women who wore the garment through choice would you change your view or simply maintain they were misguided?

Let's make it painfully simple for you..IVE ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST IN ISLAMIC DOCTRINE OR WHAT A MAN HAS TO SAY ABOUT WHAT A WOMAN WEARS.

If a woman wears it because she believes it has some religious significance-thats fine by me.

If a woman wears it because she doesn't wish to reveal her face to Joe Public-that's fine by me.

If a woman wears it to keep out the cold-thats fine by me.

And if a woman is forced to wear it by male peers is that also fine by you?"

No it's not fine by me, no more fine than western men dictating what women wear or compelling their partners to have cosmetic surgery..but I don't believe banning boob jobs is going to change such men!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You continue to miss the point.

As a previous poster put better than I, if men are using burqas as a form of oppression, would banning it really help ? Or so we need to focus on the oppression.

It doesn’t just affect you though. It affects anyone involved in the accident. And those witnessing it.

There also no harm in making this law. You’re protecting everybody, harming no one, even though you are taking away choice.

Better examples would be guns, tobacco, alcohol, even sugar.

The distress of seeing a body come through a windscreen is pretty horrific. I’ve never heard of anyone get PTSD from not being able to lipread. However my point was it affected more than just you if you chose not to wear a seat belt.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As I said if this garment is a symbol of male oppression then it's behaviour change in Muslim men that needs to be addressed, not what women wear.

Let me flip the argument, if you encountered Muslim women who wore the garment through choice would you change your view or simply maintain they were misguided?

Other than Dr Hargey (notable for being in the press atm) have you sought many Muslim views on this ?

there's a whole wealth of knowledge available on the web

I know. That’s why I’m asking what you’ve done other than pick up some mine who is in the press atm. Given a previous quote you used seemed to have been taken from counterjihadreport I’m a little cynical ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think that anyone reading this thread would come to the conclusion that the oppression of women is far less fashionable cause than the bandwagon-jumping popularity of pro-culturalism for many men. I'm going to leave you all to wallow in your own individual misogynistic crapulence with these parting words. To those who a part of a couple, I feel desperately sorry for the female half. To those who are single, that's probably why.

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I think that anyone reading this thread would come to the conclusion that the oppression of women is far less fashionable cause than the bandwagon-jumping popularity of pro-culturalism for many men. I'm going to leave you all to wallow in your own individual misogynistic crapulence with these parting words. To those who a part of a couple, I feel desperately sorry for the female half. To those who are single, that's probably why. "

Byeee

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Excellent ad hominem to leave on

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Byeee

Ok, I'll stay in thread then. Your comment is extremely immature, but quite indicative of your knowledge. But let me ask you this - what would you do if your husband insisted you covered your face in public, would you do as he says?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Byeee

If he demanded she did this via a hat and sunglasses would you want them banned ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Byeee

If he demanded she did this via a hat and sunglasses would you want them banned ?"

That's a little desperate - sunglasses only cover the eyes, and serve a useful purpose, hats in general only cover the top of the head, and not shoulder-length hair. Good try though

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

Byeee

Nope, no more than if he told me I needed surgery to 'fix' my saggy tits.

But believe me if he ever did suggest that we'd be having an instructive conversation about it and how it was his problem, I wouldn't resort to demonstrating outside the Transform Clinic.

Welcome back by the way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Byeee

Nope, no more than if he told me I needed surgery to 'fix' my saggy tits.

But believe me if he ever did suggest that we'd be having an instructive conversation about it and how it was his problem, I wouldn't resort to demonstrating outside the Transform Clinic.

Welcome back by the way.

"But believe me if he ever did suggest that we'd be having an instructive conversation about it and how it was his problem."

Right, so you'd do something about this injustice, but you won't do it on behalf of other women who may be being repressed? You're a selfish person, and your tits look fine

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

Byeee

Nope, no more than if he told me I needed surgery to 'fix' my saggy tits.

But believe me if he ever did suggest that we'd be having an instructive conversation about it and how it was his problem, I wouldn't resort to demonstrating outside the Transform Clinic.

Welcome back by the way.

"But believe me if he ever did suggest that we'd be having an instructive conversation about it and how it was his problem."

Right, so you'd do something about this injustice, but you won't do it on behalf of other women who may be being repressed? You're a selfish person, and your tits look fine

As I said I wouldn't be demonstrating outside the cosmetic surgery clinic because that isn't where the fault lies.

All that banning the burka achieves is taking sight of this 'oppresion' away from your eyes.

Do you honestly believe men who force it on their wives suddenly become nice people because an instrument of their power is taken away?

There are domestic abusers in all cultures, changing the behaviour of victims is never the answer to the problem.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What dress codes would middle aged men tolerate being imposed upon them..

Men need to stop feeling that it is their right to tell women what to wear.

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

Byeee

Nope, no more than if he told me I needed surgery to 'fix' my saggy tits.

But believe me if he ever did suggest that we'd be having an instructive conversation about it and how it was his problem, I wouldn't resort to demonstrating outside the Transform Clinic.

Welcome back by the way.

"But believe me if he ever did suggest that we'd be having an instructive conversation about it and how it was his problem."

Right, so you'd do something about this injustice, but you won't do it on behalf of other women who may be being repressed? You're a selfish person, and your tits look fine

Ps and if I think my tits are saggy I'd have no problem choosing the surgery myself and paying for it myself!

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As I said if this garment is a symbol of male oppression then it's behaviour change in Muslim men that needs to be addressed, not what women wear.

Let me flip the argument, if you encountered Muslim women who wore the garment through choice would you change your view or simply maintain they were misguided?

Other than Dr Hargey (notable for being in the press atm) have you sought many Muslim views on this ?

there's a whole wealth of knowledge available on the web

oops, missed this one. Yes, I have sought other muslims views on this. My sister was married to a very moderate muslim in America. They moved to the UK, and after two years here he became more and more extremist in his views and she divorced him. Because of the hassle and threats she received from him and his family, she moved back to the US. The vast majority of her muslim female friends in the US are completely dumbfounded as to why Britain doesn't protect the rights of their UK counterparts to be freed from wearing this symbol of oppression. So yes, I have much personal knowledge of this subject.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Byeee

If he demanded she did this via a hat and sunglasses would you want them banned ?

That's a little desperate - sunglasses only cover the eyes, and serve a useful purpose, hats in general only cover the top of the head, and not shoulder-length hair. Good try though

So oppression isn’t about the act of oppression, but what it covers. You’re going to have to help me understand where the line is on this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What dress codes would middle aged men tolerate being imposed upon them..

Men need to stop feeling that it is their right to tell women what to wear.

Yes

Especially if those men are hiding behind cultural reasons as an excuse for their misogyny.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As I said if this garment is a symbol of male oppression then it's behaviour change in Muslim men that needs to be addressed, not what women wear.

Let me flip the argument, if you encountered Muslim women who wore the garment through choice would you change your view or simply maintain they were misguided?

Other than Dr Hargey (notable for being in the press atm) have you sought many Muslim views on this ?

there's a whole wealth of knowledge available on the web

I must have missed the states taking steps to ban tho. What do they have to free oppression which we don’t ?

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Is there anyone on this website who believes, seriously, that banning a garment of clothing will make it less likely in future that someone will detonate a bomb in a shopping centre or a bus or whatever?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Byeee

If he demanded she did this via a hat and sunglasses would you want them banned ?

That's a little desperate - sunglasses only cover the eyes, and serve a useful purpose, hats in general only cover the top of the head, and not shoulder-length hair. Good try though

So oppression isn’t about the act of oppression, but what it covers. You’re going to have to help me understand where the line is on this. "

If the men of an entire culture, or large section of male-dominated society decide that their women should wear hats and sunglasses to cover their faces, that's cultural-based oppression and sexism. If an individual does it, that's individually-based oppression and sexism. Neither of these are acceptable in a civilized country, but the latter can be prosecuted, the former are currently immune in this case. Does that help?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As I said if this garment is a symbol of male oppression then it's behaviour change in Muslim men that needs to be addressed, not what women wear.

Let me flip the argument, if you encountered Muslim women who wore the garment through choice would you change your view or simply maintain they were misguided?

Other than Dr Hargey (notable for being in the press atm) have you sought many Muslim views on this ?

there's a whole wealth of knowledge available on the web

I must have missed the states taking steps to ban tho. What do they have to free oppression which we don’t ?"

I gave you a name to research, I gave you personal experience - there's a lot more information out there, and you expect me to guide you through it like a child in the darkness? That's just a little bit pathetic.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Byeee

If he demanded she did this via a hat and sunglasses would you want them banned ?

That's a little desperate - sunglasses only cover the eyes, and serve a useful purpose, hats in general only cover the top of the head, and not shoulder-length hair. Good try though

So oppression isn’t about the act of oppression, but what it covers. You’re going to have to help me understand where the line is on this.

No. this isn’t about the ability to prosecute oppresionists but banning item of clothings which some use to oppress. You’re moving towards strawmanning people don’t think oppression is bad and should be prosecuted. Has anyone said this ?

Where the debate seems to lie is whether we should ban something that oppressors use to oppress, even if it limits the rights of others.

If cultural oppression did lead to oppressive uses of sunglasses, would you be seeking to ban them?

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

As I said if this garment is a symbol of male oppression then it's behaviour change in Muslim men that needs to be addressed, not what women wear.

Let me flip the argument, if you encountered Muslim women who wore the garment through choice would you change your view or simply maintain they were misguided?

Other than Dr Hargey (notable for being in the press atm) have you sought many Muslim views on this ?

there's a whole wealth of knowledge available on the web

I must have missed the states taking steps to ban tho. What do they have to free oppression which we don’t ?

The burka isn't banned in the US.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As I said if this garment is a symbol of male oppression then it's behaviour change in Muslim men that needs to be addressed, not what women wear.

Let me flip the argument, if you encountered Muslim women who wore the garment through choice would you change your view or simply maintain they were misguided?

Other than Dr Hargey (notable for being in the press atm) have you sought many Muslim views on this ?

there's a whole wealth of knowledge available on the web

I must have missed the states taking steps to ban tho. What do they have to free oppression which we don’t ?

The burka isn't banned in the US."

Where did I say it was?????????

Muslim women in the US seem to have far more equality in the marriage than they do in the UK, and that was my point!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As I said if this garment is a symbol of male oppression then it's behaviour change in Muslim men that needs to be addressed, not what women wear.

Let me flip the argument, if you encountered Muslim women who wore the garment through choice would you change your view or simply maintain they were misguided?

Other than Dr Hargey (notable for being in the press atm) have you sought many Muslim views on this ?

there's a whole wealth of knowledge available on the web

I must have missed the states taking steps to ban tho. What do they have to free oppression which we don’t ?

I researched your previous claim and found the counterjihadreport.

But you made the claim and have supported it via one persons views. It’s hardly compelling. Are you claiming no other Islamic cleric will say it is not oppressive to counter balance your one source ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What dress codes would middle aged men tolerate being imposed upon them..

Men need to stop feeling that it is their right to tell women what to wear.

Yes

Especially if those men are hiding behind cultural reasons as an excuse for their misogyny."

So you and your culture is entitled to decide what's good what's and bad in another culture....Awesome

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As I said if this garment is a symbol of male oppression then it's behaviour change in Muslim men that needs to be addressed, not what women wear.

Let me flip the argument, if you encountered Muslim women who wore the garment through choice would you change your view or simply maintain they were misguided?

Other than Dr Hargey (notable for being in the press atm) have you sought many Muslim views on this ?

there's a whole wealth of knowledge available on the web

I must have missed the states taking steps to ban tho. What do they have to free oppression which we don’t ?

The burka isn't banned in the US.

Where did I say it was?????????

Muslim women in the US seem to have far more equality in the marriage than they do in the UK, and that was my point! "

And I’m asking you to point out what laws they have in the US which enable this equality than here. Your story seemed to be more about not protecting her after the marriage than oppression within.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Byeee

If he demanded she did this via a hat and sunglasses would you want them banned ?

That's a little desperate - sunglasses only cover the eyes, and serve a useful purpose, hats in general only cover the top of the head, and not shoulder-length hair. Good try though

So oppression isn’t about the act of oppression, but what it covers. You’re going to have to help me understand where the line is on this.

Where the debate seems to lie is whether we should ban something that oppressors use to oppress, even if it limits the rights of others.

If cultural oppression did lead to oppressive uses of sunglasses, would you be seeking to ban them?"

Now you're just asking silly questions in the misguided belief that they make you look as if you know what you're talking about. I've given you research to look at, but you don't seem to have read any of it - so, what Islamic qualifications do you have that are superior to the imam in question? Do you consider your knowledge to be superior to that of an imam? what proof of this do you have?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As I said if this garment is a symbol of male oppression then it's behaviour change in Muslim men that needs to be addressed, not what women wear.

Let me flip the argument, if you encountered Muslim women who wore the garment through choice would you change your view or simply maintain they were misguided?

Other than Dr Hargey (notable for being in the press atm) have you sought many Muslim views on this ?

there's a whole wealth of knowledge available on the web

I must have missed the states taking steps to ban tho. What do they have to free oppression which we don’t ?

The burka isn't banned in the US.

Where did I say it was?????????

Muslim women in the US seem to have far more equality in the marriage than they do in the UK, and that was my point!

And I’m asking you to point out what laws they have in the US which enable this equality than here. Your story seemed to be more about not protecting her after the marriage than oppression within. "

Again, you're asking me for knowledge that you can easily find for yourself. Don't be so lazy!

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

Byeee

If he demanded she did this via a hat and sunglasses would you want them banned ?

That's a little desperate - sunglasses only cover the eyes, and serve a useful purpose, hats in general only cover the top of the head, and not shoulder-length hair. Good try though

So oppression isn’t about the act of oppression, but what it covers. You’re going to have to help me understand where the line is on this.

Where the debate seems to lie is whether we should ban something that oppressors use to oppress, even if it limits the rights of others.

If cultural oppression did lead to oppressive uses of sunglasses, would you be seeking to ban them?

..why do you need Islamic qualifications to decide what women wear?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Byeee

If he demanded she did this via a hat and sunglasses would you want them banned ?

That's a little desperate - sunglasses only cover the eyes, and serve a useful purpose, hats in general only cover the top of the head, and not shoulder-length hair. Good try though

So oppression isn’t about the act of oppression, but what it covers. You’re going to have to help me understand where the line is on this.

Where the debate seems to lie is whether we should ban something that oppressors use to oppress, even if it limits the rights of others.

If cultural oppression did lead to oppressive uses of sunglasses, would you be seeking to ban them?

You started the hypothetical situation of a husband determining a posters clothing. I’m trying to understand what your position is based on questioning this hypothetical.

And I dont consider myself superior. Another strawman. I’m simply challenging the idea one persons (albeit educated) views is the final word on this. My guess is you have little knowledge about this guy other than supporting Boris.)

My understudying is even within the Muslim community there is debate on the interpretation. And I’ve heard people phone up phone lines to say they choose to wear it as a sign of their devotion to god. Of course, this may be subliminal coercion. But has made me believe it is not black and white oppression.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As I said if this garment is a symbol of male oppression then it's behaviour change in Muslim men that needs to be addressed, not what women wear.

Let me flip the argument, if you encountered Muslim women who wore the garment through choice would you change your view or simply maintain they were misguided?

Other than Dr Hargey (notable for being in the press atm) have you sought many Muslim views on this ?

there's a whole wealth of knowledge available on the web

I must have missed the states taking steps to ban tho. What do they have to free oppression which we don’t ?

The burka isn't banned in the US.

Where did I say it was?????????

Muslim women in the US seem to have far more equality in the marriage than they do in the UK, and that was my point!

And I’m asking you to point out what laws they have in the US which enable this equality than here. Your story seemed to be more about not protecting her after the marriage than oppression within.

Again, you're asking me for knowledge that you can easily find for yourself. Don't be so lazy!"

I would. But I’m not sure what your argument is here. If you tell me what a women can do in the states they can’t here... and so is a cause of dumbfoundness I will go research in the same way I followed up your (easier to research) claims in Philadelphia crimes.

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By *ystical_InkedBBWWoman
over a year ago

somewhere in the Shire of Derby

I think you will find the general consensus of deaf people regarding the burqa is not to suddenly start showing concern for their deafness to aid your argument. Plenty have come forward in the past few days angry at people's sudden concern for their ability to be able to lip read and face read. They will continue to do as they have been doing. If people were that bothered about deaf people coping they would be doing more to make sure that digital read outs were being used in stores and were working, that loop systems were actually switched on and working correctly in places that state they have them, instead the majority of the time the batteries being flat and not being switched on. As many have said, people wearing burqas are the least of their problems.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Byeee

If he demanded she did this via a hat and sunglasses would you want them banned ?

That's a little desperate - sunglasses only cover the eyes, and serve a useful purpose, hats in general only cover the top of the head, and not shoulder-length hair. Good try though

So oppression isn’t about the act of oppression, but what it covers. You’re going to have to help me understand where the line is on this.

Where the debate seems to lie is whether we should ban something that oppressors use to oppress, even if it limits the rights of others.

If cultural oppression did lead to oppressive uses of sunglasses, would you be seeking to ban them?

..why do you need Islamic qualifications to decide what women wear?"

Really? You think this a reasonable question when the whole thread is about burqas and the rights and wrongs of muslim women wearing them? This isn't about peek-a-boo bras, and crotchless panties, it's about an item of clothing that could be considered a symbol of male oppression over women, but nobody here seems to feel that this needs serious and rigorous investigation? If I'm wrong, and after fore-mentioned investigation has taken place I will admit it. But I refuse to ignore cases of possible sexual discrimination just because pro-culturalism is the trendier bandwagon to jump on. Come on people, where's your humanity?

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

Byeee

If he demanded she did this via a hat and sunglasses would you want them banned ?

That's a little desperate - sunglasses only cover the eyes, and serve a useful purpose, hats in general only cover the top of the head, and not shoulder-length hair. Good try though

So oppression isn’t about the act of oppression, but what it covers. You’re going to have to help me understand where the line is on this.

Where the debate seems to lie is whether we should ban something that oppressors use to oppress, even if it limits the rights of others.

If cultural oppression did lead to oppressive uses of sunglasses, would you be seeking to ban them?

..why do you need Islamic qualifications to decide what women wear?

..err I think the Trumpesque philosophy of hate is currently the trendier bangwagon.

You talk frequently of 'possibles' and the burka being a symbol of oppression without providing any compelling evidence of that case, only your supposition.

As I've said previously it's a garment I dislike (nothing to do with pro culturism), but there are a myriad of examples of men oppressing or dictating to women and I refuse to support the banning of the burka (or cosmetic surgery) because it simply replaces one form of oppression with another.

I'm not sure if you answered my earlier question, but what do you think these Muslim oppressors (if in fact they are) are going to do when their wives are forbidden from wearing the burka, suddenly become committed to the cause of emancipation?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’m all in favour of seeking out oppression. Bring on any investigation which hunts this out.

Again, has anyone said anything otherwise

However if such oppression is identified, it does not follow in my mind that the clothing itself should be banned.

Only if the investigations showed the impact of banning it from those who willingly wear it will is minimal compared to the good of banning it would I start to consider being in favour. And I’d need to be shown that banning them would stop the oppression, because I’m sceptical a group of people who oppress will suddenly stop, just because you ban the Burqa. My guess would be the oppression will be refocused elsewhere.

Tl;dr. Should oppression be stopped. Yes. Will banning the burka stop oppression. Not convinced. Will it prevent others who willingly wear the burka. Yes. Is this right. Depends on balance of proportions.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Byeee

If he demanded she did this via a hat and sunglasses would you want them banned ?

That's a little desperate - sunglasses only cover the eyes, and serve a useful purpose, hats in general only cover the top of the head, and not shoulder-length hair. Good try though

So oppression isn’t about the act of oppression, but what it covers. You’re going to have to help me understand where the line is on this.

Where the debate seems to lie is whether we should ban something that oppressors use to oppress, even if it limits the rights of others.

If cultural oppression did lead to oppressive uses of sunglasses, would you be seeking to ban them?

..why do you need Islamic qualifications to decide what women wear?

see... you keep on saying the words "forced to"....

can i ask you a simple question....

have you ever asked any of these women you seem to want to protect to see if they actually feel "opressed"???

just asking because a lot of the women i have seen on TV asked the question say exactly the opposed, they wear it because we give them the religious freedom to wear it and it an expression of them.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Byeee

If he demanded she did this via a hat and sunglasses would you want them banned ?

That's a little desperate - sunglasses only cover the eyes, and serve a useful purpose, hats in general only cover the top of the head, and not shoulder-length hair. Good try though

So oppression isn’t about the act of oppression, but what it covers. You’re going to have to help me understand where the line is on this.

Where the debate seems to lie is whether we should ban something that oppressors use to oppress, even if it limits the rights of others.

If cultural oppression did lead to oppressive uses of sunglasses, would you be seeking to ban them?

..why do you need Islamic qualifications to decide what women wear?

see... you keep on saying the words "forced to"....

can i ask you a simple question....

have you ever asked any of these women you seem to want to protect to see if they actually feel "opressed"???

Yes, on many occasions. See my post above regarding my sister and her problems with muslim patriarchy. Are the "few" women you've seen on TV a fair sample? Again, I've given examples, and names of senior muslim clerics that say the burqa is not, and has never been, an item demanded by Islam to express "religious freedom". Also maybe ask yourself "why haven't I seen muslim women opposed to it on TV?". Isn't it a bit socially irresponsible to think that because they're not on TV, they aren't opposed to it? I know first-hand how controlling religion can be - just look at the various "cult" religions in the US and other countries that have convinced adherents to commit mass suicide.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

To those of you concerned about the welfare of women in abusive relationships with men, can I ask what you are doing to help them?

Do you help out at the local Women's Aid, or the Muslim equivalent? Do you run some sort of telephone helpline?

If you believe there are women in this country being held captive by men and forced to do things against their will, I'd dial 101 if I was you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’m all in favour of seeking out oppression. Bring on any investigation which hunts this out.

Again, has anyone said anything otherwise

However if such oppression is identified, it does not follow in my mind that the clothing itself should be banned.

Do you not think society has a responsibility to help those that we perceive as vulnerable? Freedom of choice is all well and good, but history is littered with aspects of freedoms that we no longer believe are relevant to the 21st century. Parents used to have the freedom of choice to smack their kids. Not any more, bad idea. People used to have the freedom of choice to smoke opium. Not any more, bad idea. Before 1966 people had freedom of choice to drive their cars when d*unk. Not any more, very bad idea. Freedom isn't "free", it takes hard work and diligence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 12/08/18 21:05:23]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To those of you concerned about the welfare of women in abusive relationships with men, can I ask what you are doing to help them?

Do you help out at the local Women's Aid, or the Muslim equivalent? Do you run some sort of telephone helpline?

If you believe there are women in this country being held captive by men and forced to do things against their will, I'd dial 101 if I was you.

That last paragraph contains the sort of silliness that someone who should understand oppression and empathise with it shouldn't make. Yes, with my sister we do a lot of work to help vulnerable women in society. Your cynicism suggests that you believe that there aren't people around that try to champion the rights of others? You're wrong if that's the case.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’m all in favour of seeking out oppression. Bring on any investigation which hunts this out.

Again, has anyone said anything otherwise

However if such oppression is identified, it does not follow in my mind that the clothing itself should be banned.

Does banning burkas help oppression? Or simply change it?

Like I said, if there was evidence of systematic oppresion (not yet shown) and banning burkas would solve this (not shown) then I’d likely be in favour.

But none of this is proven. So making statements about banning feels rash imo. Even if the intent is good.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

I'm very pleased to hear it.

All I've heard is men - mostly - declaring the burka is either a threat to national security, a threat to their way of life or a threat to womanhood.

And I'm like, oh, come on - when did you suddenly start having feelings for the wellbeing of muslim women?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm very pleased to hear it.

All I've heard is men - mostly - declaring the burka is either a threat to national security, a threat to their way of life or a threat to womanhood.

And I'm like, oh, come on - when did you suddenly start having feelings for the wellbeing of muslim women?

I have feelings for the well being of oppressed women of all faiths, cultures and sexualities. And not just pervy ones, either

My last "mission" was with MSF in Afghanistan in 2016, helping women whose husbands had been killed to rebuild their homes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’m all in favour of seeking out oppression. Bring on any investigation which hunts this out.

Again, has anyone said anything otherwise

However if such oppression is identified, it does not follow in my mind that the clothing itself should be banned.

Does banning burkas help oppression? Or simply change it?

Like I said, if there was evidence of systematic oppresion (not yet shown) and banning burkas would solve this (not shown) then I’d likely be in favour.

But none of this is proven. So making statements about banning feels rash imo. Even if the intent is good.

So, do nothing then?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’m all in favour of seeking out oppression. Bring on any investigation which hunts this out.

Again, has anyone said anything otherwise

However if such oppression is identified, it does not follow in my mind that the clothing itself should be banned.

Does banning burkas help oppression? Or simply change it?

Like I said, if there was evidence of systematic oppresion (not yet shown) and banning burkas would solve this (not shown) then I’d likely be in favour.

But none of this is proven. So making statements about banning feels rash imo. Even if the intent is good.

So, do nothing then?"
yes. That’s exactly what I said.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’m all in favour of seeking out oppression. Bring on any investigation which hunts this out.

Again, has anyone said anything otherwise

However if such oppression is identified, it does not follow in my mind that the clothing itself should be banned.

Does banning burkas help oppression? Or simply change it?

Like I said, if there was evidence of systematic oppresion (not yet shown) and banning burkas would solve this (not shown) then I’d likely be in favour.

But none of this is proven. So making statements about banning feels rash imo. Even if the intent is good.

So, do nothing then?yes. That’s exactly what I said.

OK, what would you do?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’m all in favour of seeking out oppression. Bring on any investigation which hunts this out.

Again, has anyone said anything otherwise

However if such oppression is identified, it does not follow in my mind that the clothing itself should be banned.

Does banning burkas help oppression? Or simply change it?

Like I said, if there was evidence of systematic oppresion (not yet shown) and banning burkas would solve this (not shown) then I’d likely be in favour.

But none of this is proven. So making statements about banning feels rash imo. Even if the intent is good.

So, do nothing then?yes. That’s exactly what I said.

OK, what would you do?"
engage with Muslim women. Understand their reasons. See what evidence is for both sides.

Study other instances of oppression. See if bans work or move the problem.

In short make sure there is a problem, and that any response will be effective and proportionate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’m all in favour of seeking out oppression. Bring on any investigation which hunts this out.

Again, has anyone said anything otherwise

However if such oppression is identified, it does not follow in my mind that the clothing itself should be banned.

Does banning burkas help oppression? Or simply change it?

Like I said, if there was evidence of systematic oppresion (not yet shown) and banning burkas would solve this (not shown) then I’d likely be in favour.

But none of this is proven. So making statements about banning feels rash imo. Even if the intent is good.

So, do nothing then?yes. That’s exactly what I said.

OK, what would you do?engage with Muslim women. Understand their reasons. See what evidence is for both sides.

Study other instances of oppression. See if bans work or move the problem.

In short make sure there is a problem, and that any response will be effective and proportionate.

And this is what I do, have done and will continue to do. The current trend of people shouting "racist" whoever takes an involved interest in any culture that isn't their own makes it an uphill struggle. Not to virtue signal (or blow my own trumpet as my Nan used to say), but I'm fairly wealthy and I no longer work. I spend my time and my to help where I can, especially with the women's shelter my sister runs in the US. I contributed about 40% of the money to build a safe meeting place for abused muslim women. It's an odd one, but quite a few of the women who use the centre are in marriages where either both, or just the husband, have lived in Britain for more than a few months. I also sponsor 100% a cat and kitten rescue centre, so it's not all humans

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’m all in favour of seeking out oppression. Bring on any investigation which hunts this out.

Again, has anyone said anything otherwise

However if such oppression is identified, it does not follow in my mind that the clothing itself should be banned.

Does banning burkas help oppression? Or simply change it?

Like I said, if there was evidence of systematic oppresion (not yet shown) and banning burkas would solve this (not shown) then I’d likely be in favour.

But none of this is proven. So making statements about banning feels rash imo. Even if the intent is good.

So, do nothing then?yes. That’s exactly what I said.

OK, what would you do?engage with Muslim women. Understand their reasons. See what evidence is for both sides.

Study other instances of oppression. See if bans work or move the problem.

In short make sure there is a problem, and that any response will be effective and proportionate.

And this is what I do, have done and will continue to do. The current trend of people shouting "racist" whoever takes an involved interest in any culture that isn't their own makes it an uphill struggle. Not to virtue signal (or blow my own trumpet as my Nan used to say), but I'm fairly wealthy and I no longer work. I spend my time and my ***to help where I can, especially with the women's shelter my sister runs in the US. I contributed about 40% of the money to build a safe meeting place for abused muslim women. It's an odd one, but quite a few of the women who use the centre are in marriages where either both, or just the husband, have lived in Britain for more than a few months. I also sponsor 100% a cat and kitten rescue centre, so it's not all humans

"time and money"

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"I’m all in favour of seeking out oppression. Bring on any investigation which hunts this out.

Again, has anyone said anything otherwise

However if such oppression is identified, it does not follow in my mind that the clothing itself should be banned.

Does banning burkas help oppression? Or simply change it?

Like I said, if there was evidence of systematic oppresion (not yet shown) and banning burkas would solve this (not shown) then I’d likely be in favour.

But none of this is proven. So making statements about banning feels rash imo. Even if the intent is good.

So, do nothing then?yes. That’s exactly what I said.

OK, what would you do?engage with Muslim women. Understand their reasons. See what evidence is for both sides.

Study other instances of oppression. See if bans work or move the problem.

In short make sure there is a problem, and that any response will be effective and proportionate.

And this is what I do, have done and will continue to do. The current trend of people shouting "racist" whoever takes an involved interest in any culture that isn't their own makes it an uphill struggle. Not to virtue signal (or blow my own trumpet as my Nan used to say), but I'm fairly wealthy and I no longer work. I spend my time and my ***to help where I can, especially with the women's shelter my sister runs in the US. I contributed about 40% of the money to build a safe meeting place for abused muslim women. It's an odd one, but quite a few of the women who use the centre are in marriages where either both, or just the husband, have lived in Britain for more than a few months. I also sponsor 100% a cat and kitten rescue centre, so it's not all humans

"time and money""

By definition you are therefore only in direct contact with those in a bad situation. This in no way diminishes the good work that you are involved in.

However, it means that you do not spend much time with those who do not feel oppressed or unintegrated as immigrants.

Fair?

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

I think the OP is not far from the truth here.

It is a well, used route to power to single out a visible minority for demonisation.

Do all Muslim women where the burkha or niqab?

No, so it is nothing to do with "Muslims".

Is it a tradition amongst specific groups?

Yes, so ask why.

Do men and women dress in this manner?

No, so it is a gender related matter.

Is it imposed on women by men?

I don't have enough information on this. I feel yes in which case it is the fault of the men in those groups. However, if some women freely chose to then that is there choice. I know that "free will" is difficult to demonstrate.

The discussion about crime is a red herring here.

Regardless of your opinion, what is clear is that Boris chose to mock the women wearing these clothes not the men. He attacked the victims.

That is NOT OK.

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I think the OP is not far from the truth here.

It is a well, used route to power to single out a visible minority for demonisation.

Do all Muslim women where the burkha or niqab?

No, so it is nothing to do with "Muslims".

Is it a tradition amongst specific groups?

Yes, so ask why.

Do men and women dress in this manner?

No, so it is a gender related matter.

Is it imposed on women by men?

The discussion about crime is a red herring here.

Regardless of your opinion, what is clear is that Boris chose to mock the women wearing these clothes not the men. He attacked the victims.

That is NOT OK."

What he said

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I find this thread so frustrating.

First of all if this is something about opression from a specific religion you're only fixing a symptom. Should we tackle the nations involved, not the minority who live in the UK.

Secondly if this is about women's rights. Should we tackle ALL women in the uk and not a minority of them. Looking at ways to report them, to prosecute those who abuse and to rehabilitate nthose suffering from abuse.

If it's about safety, shouldn't we ban all masks, helmets and face covering materials. Making it harder for criminals to disguise themselves.

It seems the dialogue is aimed at a minority making their intentions clear. That this isn't about safety, women's right to be safe or oppressive regimes but about targeting a culture, race and gender for being different. If it's not then think bigger and solve the problem's causes and not covering the symptoms.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

If it's about safety, shouldn't we ban all masks, helmets and face covering materials. Making it harder for criminals to disguise themselves.

It is illegal or not allowed to enter a bank wearing a crash helmet with the visor down. Why should women wearing full Face covering like the burka be excluded from the same rule as those wearing crash helmets?

It's discriminatory against motor cyclists, I think the law should be equal and if it's not ok to wear a crash helmet into a bank then the same should apply to the burka.

I think the same rule applies to filling up at petrol stations and motor cyclists must remove their helmet before going in to pay for their fuel. Just last week my brother who is a motorcyclist was told to remove his crash helmet when he walked into a filling station wearing it to pay for his fuel.

Would the attendant at the filling station insist on a woman removing her Burka or face covering before paying for her fuel?

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

If it's about safety, shouldn't we ban all masks, helmets and face covering materials. Making it harder for criminals to disguise themselves.

It's discriminatory against motor cyclists, I think the law should be equal and if it's not ok to wear a crash helmet into a bank then the same should apply to the burka.

Would the attendant at the filling station insist on a woman removing her Burka or face covering before paying for her fuel?

It's a commercial decision made by retailers based on experience of robberies committed by people wearing crash helmets, when a similar weight of evidence shows robberies committed by burka wearers, those commercial decisions may well be reviewed. I can think of very few such instances over the last decade...therefore burka wearers don't present a problem that requires addressing.

I suspect the wealthy international banks, jewellers and retailers would never consider such a ban since it would be commercial suicide given where most of their customers come from.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Next we will be asking babies to remove their wee Lil bonnets !!

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By *od_AlmightyMan
over a year ago

Heaven

"It's discriminatory against motor cyclists

how?

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

If it's about safety, shouldn't we ban all masks, helmets and face covering materials. Making it harder for criminals to disguise themselves.

It's discriminatory against motor cyclists, I think the law should be equal and if it's not ok to wear a crash helmet into a bank then the same should apply to the burka.

Would the attendant at the filling station insist on a woman removing her Burka or face covering before paying for her fuel?

Is it alright for Boris to mock women for wearing the burkha or niqab Centaur?

Is it alright to blame the victim?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If it's about safety, shouldn't we ban all masks, helmets and face covering materials. Making it harder for criminals to disguise themselves.

It's discriminatory against motor cyclists, I think the law should be equal and if it's not ok to wear a crash helmet into a bank then the same should apply to the burka.

Would the attendant at the filling station insist on a woman removing her Burka or face covering before paying for her fuel?

This is equivalent to playing the race card. Claiming they're being helmet-ists.

So you're saying we should be allowed to wear helmets and masks and burkas. Glad you admitted it. Or you're saying ban them all. And targeting helmets only is unjustified and discrimination?

But who defined it? Is it law or policy?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If it's about safety, shouldn't we ban all masks, helmets and face covering materials. Making it harder for criminals to disguise themselves.

It's discriminatory against motor cyclists, I think the law should be equal and if it's not ok to wear a crash helmet into a bank then the same should apply to the burka.

Would the attendant at the filling station insist on a woman removing her Burka or face covering before paying for her fuel?

This is equivalent to playing the race card. Claiming they're being helmet-ists.

So you're saying we should be allowed to wear helmets and masks and burkas. Glad you admitted it. Or you're saying ban them all. And targeting helmets only is unjustified and discrimination?

But who defined it? Is it law or policy? "

Isn't it possible in this case that it's not that there was negative "racism" against the crash helmet wearer, but positive racism shown toward the burqa wearer? Positive and negative discrimination are as bad as each other

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If it's about safety, shouldn't we ban all masks, helmets and face covering materials. Making it harder for criminals to disguise themselves.

It's discriminatory against motor cyclists, I think the law should be equal and if it's not ok to wear a crash helmet into a bank then the same should apply to the burka.

Would the attendant at the filling station insist on a woman removing her Burka or face covering before paying for her fuel?

This is equivalent to playing the race card. Claiming they're being helmet-ists.

So you're saying we should be allowed to wear helmets and masks and burkas. Glad you admitted it. Or you're saying ban them all. And targeting helmets only is unjustified and discrimination?

But who defined it? Is it law or policy?

So it's not about womens rights, safety or oppressive regimes. But that the burqa is positively discriminated?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If it's about safety, shouldn't we ban all masks, helmets and face covering materials. Making it harder for criminals to disguise themselves.

It's discriminatory against motor cyclists, I think the law should be equal and if it's not ok to wear a crash helmet into a bank then the same should apply to the burka.

Would the attendant at the filling station insist on a woman removing her Burka or face covering before paying for her fuel?

This is equivalent to playing the race card. Claiming they're being helmet-ists.

So you're saying we should be allowed to wear helmets and masks and burkas. Glad you admitted it. Or you're saying ban them all. And targeting helmets only is unjustified and discrimination?

But who defined it? Is it law or policy?

Agree. But the opposite of oppression is giving liberties to a race. Does the government prevent you from wearing a burqa? If so protest against the oppressive who prevent you from wearing it.

What about brides with veils? I think they're allowed to get petrol. That's not a race thing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If it's about safety, shouldn't we ban all masks, helmets and face covering materials. Making it harder for criminals to disguise themselves.

It's discriminatory against motor cyclists, I think the law should be equal and if it's not ok to wear a crash helmet into a bank then the same should apply to the burka.

Would the attendant at the filling station insist on a woman removing her Burka or face covering before paying for her fuel?

This is equivalent to playing the race card. Claiming they're being helmet-ists.

So you're saying we should be allowed to wear helmets and masks and burkas. Glad you admitted it. Or you're saying ban them all. And targeting helmets only is unjustified and discrimination?

But who defined it? Is it law or policy?

So it's not about womens rights, safety or oppressive regimes. But that the burqa is positively discriminated? "

I have no idea, I just made the point to show that it isn't as cut and dried as people are taking it. That's why I started my post "isn't it possible.........", because it may be possible. Religious doctrine is very hard to justify or deny with simple proofs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If it's about safety, shouldn't we ban all masks, helmets and face covering materials. Making it harder for criminals to disguise themselves.

It's discriminatory against motor cyclists, I think the law should be equal and if it's not ok to wear a crash helmet into a bank then the same should apply to the burka.

Would the attendant at the filling station insist on a woman removing her Burka or face covering before paying for her fuel?

This is equivalent to playing the race card. Claiming they're being helmet-ists.

So you're saying we should be allowed to wear helmets and masks and burkas. Glad you admitted it. Or you're saying ban them all. And targeting helmets only is unjustified and discrimination?

But who defined it? Is it law or policy?

So it's not about womens rights, safety or oppressive regimes. But that the burqa is positively discriminated?

Haha. It just shows we can easily twist our viewpoints to justify what we want to believe. But justify with facts... It's true can we justify anything. Not just religious doctrine. In anything. Everything is subjective.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If it's about safety, shouldn't we ban all masks, helmets and face covering materials. Making it harder for criminals to disguise themselves.

It's discriminatory against motor cyclists, I think the law should be equal and if it's not ok to wear a crash helmet into a bank then the same should apply to the burka.

Would the attendant at the filling station insist on a woman removing her Burka or face covering before paying for her fuel?

This is equivalent to playing the race card. Claiming they're being helmet-ists.

So you're saying we should be allowed to wear helmets and masks and burkas. Glad you admitted it. Or you're saying ban them all. And targeting helmets only is unjustified and discrimination?

But who defined it? Is it law or policy?

So it's not about womens rights, safety or oppressive regimes. But that the burqa is positively discriminated?

True dat

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I found an interesting article on different types of burkas (or burqas). It may change your opinion on if it is oppressive to make and for women to wear it.

I can't post a link so here is a snippet from it starting and ending with double hashtags.

The blue-coloured burqa, also referred to as the ‘shuttlecock’, is native to Afghanistan, however, the growing hold of the Taliban in the northern areas contributed to its spread in Pakistan as well. The reason: to increase the level of purdah for girls and women.

When females wear the blue burqa, you can’t distinguish if she is a 12-year-old child or a 60-year-old grandmother,” says journalist and researcher Ali Arqam.

The blue burqa completely covers the body as a single piece of cloth, compared to the black burqa which is usually in three pieces: the coat, the head covering and the niqab.

In covering women with a single piece of cloth a number of practicalities are left ignored. For example when women step out to buy groceries or run errands and need to use their hands to pick up or carry anything they would have to lift their burqa and hold the items under it, which can be very inconvenient.

Further, the blue-coloured light weight cloth flutters, especially during strong winds, and has to be held tightly, sometimes with both hands. With restricted vision and both hands used to hold the burqa in place it leaves women with little, if any, options to be able to do anything else.

In comparison the three-piece coat-styled black burqa has long sleeves and a separate piece to cover the face revealing only the eyes. This makes its easier for the wearer to manoeuvre themselves in public without impeding vision. The black burqa is also usually made of heavy fabric which does not allow it to flutter in the wind easily, although this does make the attire much warmer to wear. Despite this setback, the advantages to the black burqa are many.

Why any man would want his wife or daughter in a such restricting and uncomfortable garment is beyond me.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"I found an interesting article on different types of burkas (or burqas). It may change your opinion on if it is oppressive to make and for women to wear it.

I can't post a link so here is a snippet from it starting and ending with double hashtags.

When females wear the blue burqa, you can’t distinguish if she is a 12-year-old child or a 60-year-old grandmother,” says journalist and researcher Ali Arqam.

The blue burqa completely covers the body as a single piece of cloth, compared to the black burqa which is usually in three pieces: the coat, the head covering and the niqab.

Why any man would want his wife or daughter in a such restricting and uncomfortable garment is beyond me."

So they have blue and black ones. It's a good job they don't have red ones otherwise Boris letterbox comparison would be even more accurate.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"I found an interesting article on different types of burkas (or burqas). It may change your opinion on if it is oppressive to make and for women to wear it.

I can't post a link so here is a snippet from it starting and ending with double hashtags.

When females wear the blue burqa, you can’t distinguish if she is a 12-year-old child or a 60-year-old grandmother,” says journalist and researcher Ali Arqam.

The blue burqa completely covers the body as a single piece of cloth, compared to the black burqa which is usually in three pieces: the coat, the head covering and the niqab.

Why any man would want his wife or daughter in a such restricting and uncomfortable garment is beyond me.

So they have blue and black ones. It's a good job they don't have red ones otherwise Boris letterbox comparison would be even more accurate.

Is it alright to mock the victim Centaur?

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"I found an interesting article on different types of burkas (or burqas). It may change your opinion on if it is oppressive to make and for women to wear it.

I can't post a link so here is a snippet from it starting and ending with double hashtags.

When females wear the blue burqa, you can’t distinguish if she is a 12-year-old child or a 60-year-old grandmother,” says journalist and researcher Ali Arqam.

The blue burqa completely covers the body as a single piece of cloth, compared to the black burqa which is usually in three pieces: the coat, the head covering and the niqab.

Why any man would want his wife or daughter in a such restricting and uncomfortable garment is beyond me."

Is this a Muslim "problem" or something far more specific?

Is it the fault of the women such that they should be ridiculed or some specific men?

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"I found an interesting article on different types of burkas (or burqas). It may change your opinion on if it is oppressive to make and for women to wear it.

I can't post a link so here is a snippet from it starting and ending with double hashtags.

When females wear the blue burqa, you can’t distinguish if she is a 12-year-old child or a 60-year-old grandmother,” says journalist and researcher Ali Arqam.

The blue burqa completely covers the body as a single piece of cloth, compared to the black burqa which is usually in three pieces: the coat, the head covering and the niqab.

Why any man would want his wife or daughter in a such restricting and uncomfortable garment is beyond me.

So they have blue and black ones. It's a good job they don't have red ones otherwise Boris letterbox comparison would be even more accurate.

Is it alright to mock the victim Centaur?"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I found an interesting article on different types of burkas (or burqas). It may change your opinion on if it is oppressive to make and for women to wear it.

I can't post a link so here is a snippet from it starting and ending with double hashtags.

When females wear the blue burqa, you can’t distinguish if she is a 12-year-old child or a 60-year-old grandmother,” says journalist and researcher Ali Arqam.

The blue burqa completely covers the body as a single piece of cloth, compared to the black burqa which is usually in three pieces: the coat, the head covering and the niqab.

Why any man would want his wife or daughter in a such restricting and uncomfortable garment is beyond me."
presumably you are just talking about the blue burqa ? Is this common in the uk ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ps thx for the article. It’s an interesting piece ... and I hadn’t realised there were distinctions and some of the cultural background.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I found an interesting article on different types of burkas (or burqas). It may change your opinion on if it is oppressive to make and for women to wear it.

I can't post a link so here is a snippet from it starting and ending with double hashtags.

When females wear the blue burqa, you can’t distinguish if she is a 12-year-old child or a 60-year-old grandmother,” says journalist and researcher Ali Arqam.

The blue burqa completely covers the body as a single piece of cloth, compared to the black burqa which is usually in three pieces: the coat, the head covering and the niqab.

Why any man would want his wife or daughter in a such restricting and uncomfortable garment is beyond me.

So they have blue and black ones. It's a good job they don't have red ones otherwise Boris letterbox comparison would be even more accurate.

Is it alright to mock the victim Centaur?

I guess he answered your question. It

is the end of the ninja turtles too. Centuar what would you force them to wear then?

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By *od_AlmightyMan
over a year ago

Heaven

" Centuar what would you force them to wear then?"

doubtles he'd have them wearing the star of ibrahim on all layers of their clothes

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