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""Ministers have drawn up plans to send in the army to deliver food, medicines and fuel in the event of shortages if Britain crashes out of the EU without a deal. Blueprints for the armed forces to assist the civilian authorities, usually used only in civil emergencies, have been dusted down as part of the “no deal” planning." https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/army-on-standby-for-no-deal-brexit-emergency-dz3359lrf It's fine. Nothing to see here. It's all going to plan. Are EU member states preparing their military for the event of a no deal? " If you believe this you you believe in fairies | |||
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""Ministers have drawn up plans to send in the army to deliver food, medicines and fuel in the event of shortages if Britain crashes out of the EU without a deal. Blueprints for the armed forces to assist the civilian authorities, usually used only in civil emergencies, have been dusted down as part of the “no deal” planning." https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/army-on-standby-for-no-deal-brexit-emergency-dz3359lrf It's fine. Nothing to see here. It's all going to plan. Are EU member states preparing their military for the event of a no deal? " How will the military distribute something if it's not there , The issue ant distribution , it's importation , | |||
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""Ministers have drawn up plans to send in the army to deliver food, medicines and fuel in the event of shortages if Britain crashes out of the EU without a deal. Blueprints for the armed forces to assist the civilian authorities, usually used only in civil emergencies, have been dusted down as part of the “no deal” planning." https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/army-on-standby-for-no-deal-brexit-emergency-dz3359lrf It's fine. Nothing to see here. It's all going to plan. Are EU member states preparing their military for the event of a no deal? How will the military distribute something if it's not there , The issue ant distribution , it's importation ," it's alluding to the military being required to control crowds as limited rations are distributed in a similar way as we see film footage of distribution of scarce supplies in famine struck areas of the globe | |||
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"it's alluding to the military being required to control crowds as limited rations are distributed in a similar way as we see film footage of distribution of scarce supplies in famine struck areas of the globe " 
Yep it is code for the military will be used to control the distribution of food and medicines. Now the question is who will get the supplies, and I am afraid that I am reminded of 'Protect and Survive' and its message that the country was like a forest and that if the forest catches fire it is necessary for the undergrowth, brushwood and saplings to be sacrificed so that the 'great trees of the forest' could survive.
I wonder how many here are 'great trees' and how many are undergrowth and brushwood?
Just as an aside, I have heard that there are no commercial insulin manufacturing facilities and it will take at least 2 years to build one. If we crash out of the EU even stockpiling at the fastest rate possible (buying all surplus production round the world) between no and march we will run out of insulin sometime next summer and those with type 1 diabetes will start dying. All I hear from the leave camp is there is nothing to worry about, I wonder how many with type 1 diabetes would agree with that? Maybe a leaver with type 1 will tell us all it is project fear again...  | |||
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"it's alluding to the military being required to control crowds as limited rations are distributed in a similar way as we see film footage of distribution of scarce supplies in famine struck areas of the globe
Yep it is code for the military will be used to control the distribution of food and medicines. Now the question is who will get the supplies, and I am afraid that I am reminded of 'Protect and Survive' and its message that the country was like a forest and that if the forest catches fire it is necessary for the undergrowth, brushwood and saplings to be sacrificed so that the 'great trees of the forest' could survive.
I wonder how many here are 'great trees' and how many are undergrowth and brushwood?
Just as an aside, I have heard that there are no commercial insulin manufacturing facilities and it will take at least 2 years to build one. If we crash out of the EU even stockpiling at the fastest rate possible (buying all surplus production round the world) between no and march we will run out of insulin sometime next summer and those with type 1 diabetes will start dying. All I hear from the leave camp is there is nothing to worry about, I wonder how many with type 1 diabetes would agree with that? Maybe a leaver with type 1 will tell us all it is project fear again... "You keep predicting all these Doomsday scenarios yet having voted Leave yourself it looks suspiciously like you are the arsonist who started the forest fire deliberately. | |||
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"Perhaps the blue passports will be edible?" They are being printed abroad so how will they be allowed to enter the country? | |||
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"The Dunkirk Spirit dontcha know! We'll send lots of little boats to rescue them. That'll teach Johnny Foreigner to mess with us! " You really need to stop watching those Dad's Army repeats. | |||
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"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? " While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had. | |||
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"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had." No, not at all. If there are shortages then where do the military come into it? If the goods are in the country then the normal infrastructure will distribute them. If the goods are not in the country then no amount of military trucks, helicopters Etc will change anything. It's a complete non story. | |||
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"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had. No, not at all. If there are shortages then where do the military come into it? If the goods are in the country then the normal infrastructure will distribute them. If the goods are not in the country then no amount of military trucks, helicopters Etc will change anything. It's a complete non story." You're totally missing the point about supply & demand again. If we have X amount of whatever but the demand is much much higher than that..... Penny dropped yet ? | |||
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"It's simple cases like this of total lack of rational / common sense that cuts through Brexit from start to finish." Like what exactly | |||
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"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had. No, not at all. If there are shortages then where do the military come into it? If the goods are in the country then the normal infrastructure will distribute them. If the goods are not in the country then no amount of military trucks, helicopters Etc will change anything. It's a complete non story. You're totally missing the point about supply & demand again. If we have X amount of whatever but the demand is much much higher than that..... Penny dropped yet ?" We go straight in to WTO rules. Just like Europe trades with every other country they have with no trade deal. It’s all scaremongering. Nothing less. | |||
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"It's simple cases like this of total lack of rational / common sense that cuts through Brexit from start to finish. Like what exactly " My case in point yet again lol | |||
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"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? If the food/medicine is still on the other side of the channel then what are they going to do? Invade France Belgium and Holland? The whole thing makes no sense other than as another scary story to get everyone onside for mother Teresa's Chequers plan. " I assume that once they come off ferries/ wagons/ airplanes they would be given military escorts to certain locations... where then they could again escort them to distribution points if needed But again if the times who are pro brexit feel the need to publish the story... is it still project fear? After all if they thought it was rubbish they wouldn’t scare people by publishing it....... would they?? Are you saying the pro brexit times are basically trying to scare the bejesus out of the commoners?  | |||
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"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had. No, not at all. If there are shortages then where do the military come into it? If the goods are in the country then the normal infrastructure will distribute them. If the goods are not in the country then no amount of military trucks, helicopters Etc will change anything. It's a complete non story. You're totally missing the point about supply & demand again. If we have X amount of whatever but the demand is much much higher than that..... Penny dropped yet ? We go straight in to WTO rules. Just like Europe trades with every other country they have with no trade deal. It’s all scaremongering. Nothing less. " That's not the topic at hand though is it. We're talking about if / why the Military may or may not be required to distribute food / medicines etc If there are no shortages then fine great stuff but if there are shortages then that's why the Military may have to assist in allocation. | |||
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"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? If the food/medicine is still on the other side of the channel then what are they going to do? Invade France Belgium and Holland? The whole thing makes no sense other than as another scary story to get everyone onside for mother Teresa's Chequers plan. I assume that once they come off ferries/ wagons/ airplanes they would be given military escorts to certain locations... where then they could again escort them to distribution points if needed But again if the times who are pro brexit feel the need to publish the story... is it still project fear? After all if they thought it was rubbish they wouldn’t scare people by publishing it....... would they?? Are you saying the pro brexit times are basically trying to scare the bejesus out of the commoners? "Of course they are. Hoping for a 3rd referendum. Funny how it happened when May went on holiday. | |||
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"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had. No, not at all. If there are shortages then where do the military come into it? If the goods are in the country then the normal infrastructure will distribute them. If the goods are not in the country then no amount of military trucks, helicopters Etc will change anything. It's a complete non story. You're totally missing the point about supply & demand again. If we have X amount of whatever but the demand is much much higher than that..... Penny dropped yet ?" There is no penny to drop. Unless leaving the EU will significantly change the internal infrastructure of the UK (which it won't) then what difference will military trucks make? What are they going to carry from where and where to? If there is a shortage then there is nothing to carry and where would any extra demand come from? What will disappear from Britain after Brexit that military trucks will replace? | |||
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"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had. No, not at all. If there are shortages then where do the military come into it? If the goods are in the country then the normal infrastructure will distribute them. If the goods are not in the country then no amount of military trucks, helicopters Etc will change anything. It's a complete non story. You're totally missing the point about supply & demand again. If we have X amount of whatever but the demand is much much higher than that..... Penny dropped yet ? We go straight in to WTO rules. Just like Europe trades with every other country they have with no trade deal. It’s all scaremongering. Nothing less. That's not the topic at hand though is it. We're talking about if / why the Military may or may not be required to distribute food / medicines etc If there are no shortages then fine great stuff but if there are shortages then that's why the Military may have to assist in allocation." Fookynella. This is getting beyond parody. What next? Ration books? I'll bet you believed in the millennium bug as well. FFS Get a grip. | |||
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"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had. No, not at all. If there are shortages then where do the military come into it? If the goods are in the country then the normal infrastructure will distribute them. If the goods are not in the country then no amount of military trucks, helicopters Etc will change anything. It's a complete non story." To distribute the food and medicines the government are stockpiling? If it's a non-story, then why is a pro-brexit paper reporting it? | |||
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"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had. No, not at all. If there are shortages then where do the military come into it? If the goods are in the country then the normal infrastructure will distribute them. If the goods are not in the country then no amount of military trucks, helicopters Etc will change anything. It's a complete non story. You're totally missing the point about supply & demand again. If we have X amount of whatever but the demand is much much higher than that..... Penny dropped yet ? We go straight in to WTO rules. Just like Europe trades with every other country they have with no trade deal. It’s all scaremongering. Nothing less. That's not the topic at hand though is it. We're talking about if / why the Military may or may not be required to distribute food / medicines etc If there are no shortages then fine great stuff but if there are shortages then that's why the Military may have to assist in allocation. Fookynella. This is getting beyond parody. What next? Ration books? I'll bet you believed in the millennium bug as well. FFS Get a grip."  | |||
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"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had. No, not at all. If there are shortages then where do the military come into it? If the goods are in the country then the normal infrastructure will distribute them. If the goods are not in the country then no amount of military trucks, helicopters Etc will change anything. It's a complete non story. You're totally missing the point about supply & demand again. If we have X amount of whatever but the demand is much much higher than that..... Penny dropped yet ? We go straight in to WTO rules. Just like Europe trades with every other country they have with no trade deal. It’s all scaremongering. Nothing less. That's not the topic at hand though is it. We're talking about if / why the Military may or may not be required to distribute food / medicines etc If there are no shortages then fine great stuff but if there are shortages then that's why the Military may have to assist in allocation. Fookynella. This is getting beyond parody. What next? Ration books? I'll bet you believed in the millennium bug as well. FFS Get a grip." You guys have your location as Spain and Germany, have you heard anything about those countries preparing their militaries for a no-deal Brexit? Or does it seem to be having a more negative impact on the UK? I thought the Brexiters had been telling us for years that the EU need us more than we need them? That they would be worse off and we would be fine. Is that playing out? | |||
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" If it's a non-story, then why is a pro-brexit paper reporting it?" Classic Government PR tactic. Leak enough scare stories that people think the outcome is going to be terrible. When it actually comes and turns out to be not as terrible as people thought, everyone breathes a sigh of relief and congratulates the Government on doing a wonderful job. We're being conditioned. | |||
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"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had. No, not at all. If there are shortages then where do the military come into it? If the goods are in the country then the normal infrastructure will distribute them. If the goods are not in the country then no amount of military trucks, helicopters Etc will change anything. It's a complete non story. To distribute the food and medicines the government are stockpiling? If it's a non-story, then why is a pro-brexit paper reporting it?" Stockpiles? What stockpiles? I've not seen or heard anything about stockpiles other than the usual stories with maybe, could be, might be, possibly Etc attached. Looks like I'd better go and dig out my grandma's old butter coupons. or maybe start a "Dig for Victory" campaign.  | |||
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"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had. No, not at all. If there are shortages then where do the military come into it? If the goods are in the country then the normal infrastructure will distribute them. If the goods are not in the country then no amount of military trucks, helicopters Etc will change anything. It's a complete non story. You're totally missing the point about supply & demand again. If we have X amount of whatever but the demand is much much higher than that..... Penny dropped yet ? We go straight in to WTO rules. Just like Europe trades with every other country they have with no trade deal. It’s all scaremongering. Nothing less. That's not the topic at hand though is it. We're talking about if / why the Military may or may not be required to distribute food / medicines etc If there are no shortages then fine great stuff but if there are shortages then that's why the Military may have to assist in allocation. Fookynella. This is getting beyond parody. What next? Ration books? I'll bet you believed in the millennium bug as well. FFS Get a grip." I never said I think it will happen did I ... please correct me by pointing to where I said as such... ohh opps, I didn't... did I
You failed there didn't you
but if shortages did happen then the topic at hand is your total lack of understanding on how society works / behaves when / if faced with extream shortages of critical items.
but it's interesting how some Leave voters ALWAYS have the same tact of twisting and changing the topic at hand then go for the ridicule card in a pathetic attempt to avoid the topic at hand while creating their own mini topic using total fabrication in some vain attempt to ridicule a valid argument
which results in yet another fail
It's ok, if shortages do occur "IF" then you'll be fine, it won't effect you because you've said it won't happen
Vive la Brexit | |||
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"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had. No, not at all. If there are shortages then where do the military come into it? If the goods are in the country then the normal infrastructure will distribute them. If the goods are not in the country then no amount of military trucks, helicopters Etc will change anything. It's a complete non story. You're totally missing the point about supply & demand again. If we have X amount of whatever but the demand is much much higher than that..... Penny dropped yet ? We go straight in to WTO rules. Just like Europe trades with every other country they have with no trade deal. It’s all scaremongering. Nothing less. That's not the topic at hand though is it. We're talking about if / why the Military may or may not be required to distribute food / medicines etc If there are no shortages then fine great stuff but if there are shortages then that's why the Military may have to assist in allocation. Fookynella. This is getting beyond parody. What next? Ration books? I'll bet you believed in the millennium bug as well. FFS Get a grip. I never said I think it will happen did I ... please correct me by pointing to where I said as such... ohh opps, I didn't... did I
You failed there didn't you
but if shortages did happen then the topic at hand is your total lack of understanding on how society works / behaves when / if faced with extream shortages of critical items.
but it's interesting how some Leave voters ALWAYS have the same tact of twisting and changing the topic at hand then go for the ridicule card in a pathetic attempt to avoid the topic at hand while creating their own mini topic using total fabrication in some vain attempt to ridicule a valid argument
which results in yet another fail
It's ok, if shortages do occur "IF" then you'll be fine, it won't effect you because you've said it won't happen
Vive la Brexit "We will use WTO rules. What don’t you understand. There is no IF’s it won’t happen. Stop your scaremongering | |||
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"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had. No, not at all. If there are shortages then where do the military come into it? If the goods are in the country then the normal infrastructure will distribute them. If the goods are not in the country then no amount of military trucks, helicopters Etc will change anything. It's a complete non story. You're totally missing the point about supply & demand again. If we have X amount of whatever but the demand is much much higher than that..... Penny dropped yet ? We go straight in to WTO rules. Just like Europe trades with every other country they have with no trade deal. It’s all scaremongering. Nothing less. That's not the topic at hand though is it. We're talking about if / why the Military may or may not be required to distribute food / medicines etc If there are no shortages then fine great stuff but if there are shortages then that's why the Military may have to assist in allocation. Fookynella. This is getting beyond parody. What next? Ration books? I'll bet you believed in the millennium bug as well. FFS Get a grip. I never said I think it will happen did I ... please correct me by pointing to where I said as such... ohh opps, I didn't... did I
You failed there didn't you
but if shortages did happen then the topic at hand is your total lack of understanding on how society works / behaves when / if faced with extream shortages of critical items.
but it's interesting how some Leave voters ALWAYS have the same tact of twisting and changing the topic at hand then go for the ridicule card in a pathetic attempt to avoid the topic at hand while creating their own mini topic using total fabrication in some vain attempt to ridicule a valid argument
which results in yet another fail
It's ok, if shortages do occur "IF" then you'll be fine, it won't effect you because you've said it won't happen
Vive la Brexit "The subject in hand is simple. IF these shortages occur, which is about as likely as all the planes dropping out of the sky on the millennium, then what are all these military vehicles going to carry? and from where and to where? If there are no shortages (most likely scenario) then life goes on. What I will guarantee you is that on the 30th March the M1 will still be open and Eddie Stobarts trucks will still be pounding up and down it. | |||
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"Seems like someone in government is actually planning ahead.Unlike the loony brexiters we see here who wouldn't plan for all eventualities . If you fail to plan brexiters you plan to fail.Sticking your head up your arse gives a warped and narrow view of the problems ahead. "Planning what exactly. Where are these emergency supplies coming from. Please tell us. | |||
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" The subject in hand is simple. IF these shortages occur, which is about as likely as all the planes dropping out of the sky on the millennium, then what are all these military vehicles going to carry? and from where and to where? If there are no shortages (most likely scenario) then life goes on. What I will guarantee you is that on the 30th March the M1 will still be open and Eddie Stobarts trucks will still be pounding up and down it." Most probably true yes I agree, but what I am not is opposed to viewing everything from all possible outcomes. While everything can be given a personal opinion % chance of happening , I would never rule out something like shortages out as 0% chance of ever happening. When you go on about if there are shortages what and where are the military going to take them... I'd hazard a guess they would be safeguarding the transportation of whatever goods are in cronic short supply, ie basic food stuffs if shortages were bad enough, medical supplies etc You sound as if you're trying to say if there's a shortage then that means there isn;t any at all, which is total rubbish. Cast your mind back to 2000, fuel protests / blockades " Within 24 hours petrol stations started running dry as the demonstrations began to bite and motorists launched in to panic buying. Over the following days protests spread around the country, including the UK's largest inland oil terminal at Kingsbury in the West Midlands. Huge queues built up on forecourts while many filling stations were forced to close. A week's worth of fuel was selling within three days and by September 12 up to 3,000 petrol stations were dry. One independent station in Derby was selling petrol at £11 a gallon Panic buying spread to the supermarkets with the public rushing to stock up on essential items. About 80 fuel tankers and drivers from the Army were put on standby " So faced with food & medical shortages "IF" to keep you happy, you think people would just shrug their shoulders and walk home if they couldn't buy or afford food ? That was just petrol / diesel, you think it would be so much different if it was basic foods / medicines ? | |||
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"Seems like someone in government is actually planning ahead.Unlike the loony brexiters we see here who wouldn't plan for all eventualities . If you fail to plan brexiters you plan to fail.Sticking your head up your arse gives a warped and narrow view of the problems ahead.
Planning what exactly. Where are these emergency supplies coming from. Please tell us. "If stockpiling is happening then I'd say it's quite obviously coming from where ever it currently comes from but possibly more is being purchased to enable it to be "stockpiled" I'm not arguing that stockpiling is happening or not, but if it is then the possible outcome may require the Army's logistical assistance if the shortages get acute enough. | |||
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"Seems like someone in government is actually planning ahead.Unlike the loony brexiters we see here who wouldn't plan for all eventualities . If you fail to plan brexiters you plan to fail.Sticking your head up your arse gives a warped and narrow view of the problems ahead.
Planning what exactly. Where are these emergency supplies coming from. Please tell us. "The government has a website outlining its response in a national emergency.It might come as a surprise to a brexiter that some people in government get paid to plan for worst case scenarios like famine and war and natural disasters and brexit being a cluster fuck. Its just a question of moving the food and water to where it's needed.The logistics of it needs to addressed now and have vehicles and people on the right sites. | |||
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"Seems like someone in government is actually planning ahead.Unlike the loony brexiters we see here who wouldn't plan for all eventualities . If you fail to plan brexiters you plan to fail.Sticking your head up your arse gives a warped and narrow view of the problems ahead.
Planning what exactly. Where are these emergency supplies coming from. Please tell us.
If stockpiling is happening then I'd say it's quite obviously coming from where ever it currently comes from but possibly more is being purchased to enable it to be "stockpiled"
I'm not arguing that stockpiling is happening or not, but if it is then the possible outcome may require the Army's logistical assistance if the shortages get acute enough."Stock piling happens all the time. Are the EU the only place in the world who produced food. | |||
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"Seems like someone in government is actually planning ahead.Unlike the loony brexiters we see here who wouldn't plan for all eventualities . If you fail to plan brexiters you plan to fail.Sticking your head up your arse gives a warped and narrow view of the problems ahead.
Planning what exactly. Where are these emergency supplies coming from. Please tell us.
If stockpiling is happening then I'd say it's quite obviously coming from where ever it currently comes from but possibly more is being purchased to enable it to be "stockpiled"
I'm not arguing that stockpiling is happening or not, but if it is then the possible outcome may require the Army's logistical assistance if the shortages get acute enough.
Stock piling happens all the time.
Are the EU the only place in the world who produced food. "Yet another one who is unable to remain on topic  | |||
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The case I'm putting is IF stockpiling WAS done.... oh fuck it, I'm loosing too many brain cells trying to drag myself down to this level of discussion
Vive la Brexit | |||
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"Seems like someone in government is actually planning ahead.Unlike the loony brexiters we see here who wouldn't plan for all eventualities . If you fail to plan brexiters you plan to fail.Sticking your head up your arse gives a warped and narrow view of the problems ahead.
Planning what exactly. Where are these emergency supplies coming from. Please tell us.
If stockpiling is happening then I'd say it's quite obviously coming from where ever it currently comes from but possibly more is being purchased to enable it to be "stockpiled"
I'm not arguing that stockpiling is happening or not, but if it is then the possible outcome may require the Army's logistical assistance if the shortages get acute enough.
Stock piling happens all the time.
Are the EU the only place in the world who produced food.
Yet another one who is unable to remain on topic "On topic ha ha ha ha ha | |||
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The Dunkirk spirit will get us through the first winter of brexit. | |||
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"Seems like someone in government is actually planning ahead.Unlike the loony brexiters we see here who wouldn't plan for all eventualities . If you fail to plan brexiters you plan to fail.Sticking your head up your arse gives a warped and narrow view of the problems ahead.
Planning what exactly. Where are these emergency supplies coming from. Please tell us.
If stockpiling is happening then I'd say it's quite obviously coming from where ever it currently comes from but possibly more is being purchased to enable it to be "stockpiled"
I'm not arguing that stockpiling is happening or not, but if it is then the possible outcome may require the Army's logistical assistance if the shortages get acute enough.
Stock piling happens all the time.
Are the EU the only place in the world who produced food.
Yet another one who is unable to remain on topic
On topic ha ha ha ha ha"Ok, if you need it spelling out... You are quoting me then arguing about the likelihood of there not being shortages, which as I've said already I am not saying there will be so your previous post that quoted me makes no sense. | |||
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""Ministers have drawn up plans to send in the army to deliver food, medicines and fuel in the event of shortages if Britain crashes out of the EU without a deal. Blueprints for the armed forces to assist the civilian authorities, usually used only in civil emergencies, have been dusted down as part of the “no deal” planning." https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/army-on-standby-for-no-deal-brexit-emergency-dz3359lrf It's fine. Nothing to see here. It's all going to plan. Are EU member states preparing their military for the event of a no deal? " Luckily those in the six counties will be able to drive across the border to their nearest Tesco Ireland or Texaco Ireland though they best be quick before those custom installations are erected and manned | |||
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"Seems like someone in government is actually planning ahead.Unlike the loony brexiters we see here who wouldn't plan for all eventualities . If you fail to plan brexiters you plan to fail.Sticking your head up your arse gives a warped and narrow view of the problems ahead.
Planning what exactly. Where are these emergency supplies coming from. Please tell us.
The government has a website outlining its response in a national emergency.It might come as a surprise to a brexiter that some people in government get paid to plan for worst case scenarios like famine and war and natural disasters and brexit being a cluster fuck.
Its just a question of moving the food and water to where it's needed.The logistics of it needs to addressed now and have vehicles and people on the right sites. "I'm with Bedbath on this - This scaremongering story is so laughable it's embarrassing You already have a perfectly efficient distribution system to deliver goods, so why would you need the army to do it? It's a nice idea that a squaddie would rumble down the road in a Scorpion Tank delivering water to pensioners However most British pensioners I've met are pretty savvy and streetwise - I'm sure they will work out that water still comes out of the tap Nice try though! | |||
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"Seems like someone in government is actually planning ahead.Unlike the loony brexiters we see here who wouldn't plan for all eventualities . If you fail to plan brexiters you plan to fail.Sticking your head up your arse gives a warped and narrow view of the problems ahead.
Planning what exactly. Where are these emergency supplies coming from. Please tell us.
The government has a website outlining its response in a national emergency.It might come as a surprise to a brexiter that some people in government get paid to plan for worst case scenarios like famine and war and natural disasters and brexit being a cluster fuck.
Its just a question of moving the food and water to where it's needed.The logistics of it needs to addressed now and have vehicles and people on the right sites.
I'm with Bedbath on this - This scaremongering story is so laughable it's embarrassing
You already have a perfectly efficient distribution system to deliver goods, so why would you need the army to do it?
It's a nice idea that a squaddie would rumble down the road in a Scorpion Tank delivering water to pensioners
However most British pensioners I've met are pretty savvy and streetwise - I'm sure they will work out that water still comes out of the tap
Nice try though! "Of course it's always prudent to play down reports of the army being used.It doesn't sell the brexit illusion very well. Keep spinning your alternative reality.Im sure pensioners will respect the governments lack of planning if it goes tits up. Then again the brexiters can always blame remainers .Viva la brexit!! | |||
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"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had. No, not at all. If there are shortages then where do the military come into it? If the goods are in the country then the normal infrastructure will distribute them. If the goods are not in the country then no amount of military trucks, helicopters Etc will change anything. It's a complete non story. To distribute the food and medicines the government are stockpiling? If it's a non-story, then why is a pro-brexit paper reporting it?" Getting the military to distribute food & medicines is totally inefficient as they don't have the right vehicles/equipment and enough of them. The same as when they provided cover when the fire brigades were on strike. | |||
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"What would be the hold up at customs?" Why will no produce arrive on our shores? Or will they arrive but OUR customs will hold it all up? Why would they not just waive it through as they do now? Are the EU about to change all their standards after Brexit day? The same standards that we have now, and will have on that same day? There seems to be a presumption that our govt and customs run like automatons and are incapable of logical decision making. Its not rocket science....its the civil service. Though that could be more complex. | |||
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So again... everything is project fear until someone has to do some planning
When the planning plans come out... brexiteers scream project fear!!!
Can’t win for can’t win... | |||
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"Well know one knows if that will happen yet I think it’s very unlikely if it does happen tho atleast the government are making plans now which is good but if there is no stockpiling of food no empty shelves no army on the streets then it I will of been project fear and some red faces on here lol personally it’s just ppl shitting themselves for the sake of it it’s been going on for two yrs now " But if that is the case.... then why plan? And then if you are going to pan them for doing any planning... then why plan? | |||
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"Well know one knows if that will happen yet I think it’s very unlikely if it does happen tho atleast the government are making plans now which is good but if there is no stockpiling of food no empty shelves no army on the streets then it I will of been project fear and some red faces on here lol personally it’s just ppl shitting themselves for the sake of it it’s been going on for two yrs now But if that is the case.... then why plan? And then if you are going to pan them for doing any planning... then why plan? " _abio yr asking me why plan I’m not the government I said personally I don’t think it will happen but when as planning been a bad thing cost nothing to plan I’m not planing anyone for planning you shud be happy that there planning or do you think it’s a waste of time ? | |||
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"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had. No, not at all. If there are shortages then where do the military come into it? If the goods are in the country then the normal infrastructure will distribute them. If the goods are not in the country then no amount of military trucks, helicopters Etc will change anything. It's a complete non story. You're totally missing the point about supply & demand again. If we have X amount of whatever but the demand is much much higher than that..... Penny dropped yet ? We go straight in to WTO rules. Just like Europe trades with every other country they have with no trade deal. It’s all scaremongering. Nothing less. " By the EU already have a WTO schedule and the U.K. doesn’t. So how long before the U.K. manages to negotiate a WTO schedule? Bear in mind there are far more parties to negotiate with in the WTO than in the EU. Quite a few of which we have already pissed off. So yeah, we could still just import stuff regardless and say ‘to hell’ with the WTO. How do you think that reflects on our chances then to negotiate trade deals elsewhere? -Matt | |||
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"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had. No, not at all. If there are shortages then where do the military come into it? If the goods are in the country then the normal infrastructure will distribute them. If the goods are not in the country then no amount of military trucks, helicopters Etc will change anything. It's a complete non story. You're totally missing the point about supply & demand again. If we have X amount of whatever but the demand is much much higher than that..... Penny dropped yet ? We go straight in to WTO rules. Just like Europe trades with every other country they have with no trade deal. It’s all scaremongering. Nothing less. That's not the topic at hand though is it. We're talking about if / why the Military may or may not be required to distribute food / medicines etc If there are no shortages then fine great stuff but if there are shortages then that's why the Military may have to assist in allocation. Fookynella. This is getting beyond parody. What next? Ration books? I'll bet you believed in the millennium bug as well. FFS Get a grip." Yes. And I have a very strong suspicion you didn’t believe in the millennium bug. Idiot. -Matt | |||
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" _abio yr asking me why plan I’m not the government I said personally I don’t think it will happen but when as planning been a bad thing cost nothing to plan I’m not planing anyone for planning you shud be happy that there planning or do you think it’s a waste of time ?" At some point someone is going to have to do some planning because as much as people like to say everything is going to be okay... in the real world it’s not then you would pan them for not planning.... So it doesn’t help if someone does sensible planning people don’t shout scaremongering or project fear At some point in a project as big as this there is going to have to be a lot of work and planning done... as much as people like to claim everything will be fine... the one thing that planners of any sort will tell you is that “hope” is not a strategy So at what point do people accept any potential planning or are we all going to scream project fear till the day before we leave? | |||
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"For all of you saying the m1 will be open... you are absolutely correct..... the m26 in Kent coming to and from the channel ports/ tunnel... maybe not so!!!
So again... everything is project fear until someone has to do some planning
When the planning plans come out... brexiteers scream project fear!!!
Can’t win for can’t win... "What needs planning? The same trucks will pick up the same containers from the same ships and deliver it all to the same shops and it will be bought by the same customers. The paperwork might have an extra paragraph or two and a few penny's import duty (that is of course if the government want to impose it). The port of Felixtowe handles thousands of containers every month from all corners of the non EU world and the logistics is pretty seamless with most being turned around in less than 24 hours. Why should EU goods be any different after March? Unless of course the EU punishment squad want to make everything as difficult as possible. They won't of course because, as they well know, the EU has a massive trade surplus with the UK and when push comes to shove they will look after their pockets. | |||
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"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had. No, not at all. If there are shortages then where do the military come into it? If the goods are in the country then the normal infrastructure will distribute them. If the goods are not in the country then no amount of military trucks, helicopters Etc will change anything. It's a complete non story. You're totally missing the point about supply & demand again. If we have X amount of whatever but the demand is much much higher than that..... Penny dropped yet ? We go straight in to WTO rules. Just like Europe trades with every other country they have with no trade deal. It’s all scaremongering. Nothing less. That's not the topic at hand though is it. We're talking about if / why the Military may or may not be required to distribute food / medicines etc If there are no shortages then fine great stuff but if there are shortages then that's why the Military may have to assist in allocation. Fookynella. This is getting beyond parody. What next? Ration books? I'll bet you believed in the millennium bug as well. FFS Get a grip. Yes. And I have a very strong suspicion you didn’t believe in the millennium bug. Idiot. -Matt" Yep. because it didn't fucking well happen. Scaremongering idiot. | |||
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"What would be the hold up at customs? Why will no produce arrive on our shores? Or will they arrive but OUR customs will hold it all up? Why would they not just waive it through as they do now? Are the EU about to change all their standards after Brexit day? The same standards that we have now, and will have on that same day? There seems to be a presumption that our govt and customs run like automatons and are incapable of logical decision making. Its not rocket science....its the civil service. Though that could be more complex. "As has been pointed out, I think to you, before, to do what you are suggesting is against WTO rules. You know, the rules that we need to trade with the rest of the world. | |||
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"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had. No, not at all. If there are shortages then where do the military come into it? If the goods are in the country then the normal infrastructure will distribute them. If the goods are not in the country then no amount of military trucks, helicopters Etc will change anything. It's a complete non story. You're totally missing the point about supply & demand again. If we have X amount of whatever but the demand is much much higher than that..... Penny dropped yet ? We go straight in to WTO rules. Just like Europe trades with every other country they have with no trade deal. It’s all scaremongering. Nothing less. That's not the topic at hand though is it. We're talking about if / why the Military may or may not be required to distribute food / medicines etc If there are no shortages then fine great stuff but if there are shortages then that's why the Military may have to assist in allocation. Fookynella. This is getting beyond parody. What next? Ration books? I'll bet you believed in the millennium bug as well. FFS Get a grip. Yes. And I have a very strong suspicion you didn’t believe in the millennium bug. Idiot. -Matt Yep. because it didn't fucking well happen. Scaremongering idiot." Why didn't it happen? | |||
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"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had. No, not at all. If there are shortages then where do the military come into it? If the goods are in the country then the normal infrastructure will distribute them. If the goods are not in the country then no amount of military trucks, helicopters Etc will change anything. It's a complete non story. You're totally missing the point about supply & demand again. If we have X amount of whatever but the demand is much much higher than that..... Penny dropped yet ? We go straight in to WTO rules. Just like Europe trades with every other country they have with no trade deal. It’s all scaremongering. Nothing less. That's not the topic at hand though is it. We're talking about if / why the Military may or may not be required to distribute food / medicines etc If there are no shortages then fine great stuff but if there are shortages then that's why the Military may have to assist in allocation. Fookynella. This is getting beyond parody. What next? Ration books? I'll bet you believed in the millennium bug as well. FFS Get a grip. Yes. And I have a very strong suspicion you didn’t believe in the millennium bug. Idiot. -Matt Yep. because it didn't fucking well happen. Scaremongering idiot. Why didn't it happen? "Among the more blatant scare stories knocking around at the time were: Power cuts. Food shortages (amazing how that one keeps popping up) Planes falling out of the sky (ok we were told a few did but they were usually full of African billionaires whose Nigerian lawyers want to find a home for their money )
My ex Mrs was a very senior civil servant at the time (so senior they gave her a gong when she retired) and spent almost a full year preparing for the so called bug. Apart from an occasional hiccup sod all happened and all this "Scary Movie" Brexit shit will be no different, as much as many on here (yourself included) would like it to be.
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"Knowing the British publics ability to go into panic buying mode if there's 3 feet of snow on the lawn for more than 24hrs.There will be a run on certain food items like spam etc. I would hope anyone who voted out will keep the faith of the true meaning of brexit and resist the urge to stockpile for the brexapocalypse. "3 feet? fookin 'ell. Britain grinds to a halt with 3mm. | |||
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"it's alluding to the military being required to control crowds as limited rations are distributed in a similar way as we see film footage of distribution of scarce supplies in famine struck areas of the globe
Yep it is code for the military will be used to control the distribution of food and medicines. Now the question is who will get the supplies, and I am afraid that I am reminded of 'Protect and Survive' and its message that the country was like a forest and that if the forest catches fire it is necessary for the undergrowth, brushwood and saplings to be sacrificed so that the 'great trees of the forest' could survive.
I wonder how many here are 'great trees' and how many are undergrowth and brushwood?
Just as an aside, I have heard that there are no commercial insulin manufacturing facilities and it will take at least 2 years to build one. If we crash out of the EU even stockpiling at the fastest rate possible (buying all surplus production round the world) between no and march we will run out of insulin sometime next summer and those with type 1 diabetes will start dying. All I hear from the leave camp is there is nothing to worry about, I wonder how many with type 1 diabetes would agree with that? Maybe a leaver with type 1 will tell us all it is project fear again... "god what next .this project fear by the remain camp gets funnier by the day .grow up you lot | |||
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"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had. No, not at all. If there are shortages then where do the military come into it? If the goods are in the country then the normal infrastructure will distribute them. If the goods are not in the country then no amount of military trucks, helicopters Etc will change anything. It's a complete non story. You're totally missing the point about supply & demand again. If we have X amount of whatever but the demand is much much higher than that..... Penny dropped yet ? We go straight in to WTO rules. Just like Europe trades with every other country they have with no trade deal. It’s all scaremongering. Nothing less. That's not the topic at hand though is it. We're talking about if / why the Military may or may not be required to distribute food / medicines etc If there are no shortages then fine great stuff but if there are shortages then that's why the Military may have to assist in allocation. Fookynella. This is getting beyond parody. What next? Ration books? I'll bet you believed in the millennium bug as well. FFS Get a grip. Yes. And I have a very strong suspicion you didn’t believe in the millennium bug. Idiot. -Matt Yep. because it didn't fucking well happen. Scaremongering idiot. Why didn't it happen?
Among the more blatant scare stories knocking around at the time were:
Power cuts.
Food shortages (amazing how that one keeps popping up)
Planes falling out of the sky (ok we were told a few did but they were usually full of African billionaires whose Nigerian lawyers want to find a home for their money )
My ex Mrs was a very senior civil servant at the time (so senior they gave her a gong when she retired) and spent almost a full year preparing for the so called bug. Apart from an occasional hiccup sod all happened and all this "Scary Movie" Brexit shit will be no different, as much as many on here (yourself included) would like it to be.
"The question was "Why didn't it happen?" | |||
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"it's alluding to the military being required to control crowds as limited rations are distributed in a similar way as we see film footage of distribution of scarce supplies in famine struck areas of the globe
Yep it is code for the military will be used to control the distribution of food and medicines. Now the question is who will get the supplies, and I am afraid that I am reminded of 'Protect and Survive' and its message that the country was like a forest and that if the forest catches fire it is necessary for the undergrowth, brushwood and saplings to be sacrificed so that the 'great trees of the forest' could survive.
I wonder how many here are 'great trees' and how many are undergrowth and brushwood?
Just as an aside, I have heard that there are no commercial insulin manufacturing facilities and it will take at least 2 years to build one. If we crash out of the EU even stockpiling at the fastest rate possible (buying all surplus production round the world) between no and march we will run out of insulin sometime next summer and those with type 1 diabetes will start dying. All I hear from the leave camp is there is nothing to worry about, I wonder how many with type 1 diabetes would agree with that? Maybe a leaver with type 1 will tell us all it is project fear again... god what next .this project fear by the remain camp gets funnier by the day .grow up you lot "I'm waiting for sanctions, a blockade and U Boats in the Atlantic. | |||
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"it's alluding to the military being required to control crowds as limited rations are distributed in a similar way as we see film footage of distribution of scarce supplies in famine struck areas of the globe
Yep it is code for the military will be used to control the distribution of food and medicines. Now the question is who will get the supplies, and I am afraid that I am reminded of 'Protect and Survive' and its message that the country was like a forest and that if the forest catches fire it is necessary for the undergrowth, brushwood and saplings to be sacrificed so that the 'great trees of the forest' could survive.
I wonder how many here are 'great trees' and how many are undergrowth and brushwood?
Just as an aside, I have heard that there are no commercial insulin manufacturing facilities and it will take at least 2 years to build one. If we crash out of the EU even stockpiling at the fastest rate possible (buying all surplus production round the world) between no and march we will run out of insulin sometime next summer and those with type 1 diabetes will start dying. All I hear from the leave camp is there is nothing to worry about, I wonder how many with type 1 diabetes would agree with that? Maybe a leaver with type 1 will tell us all it is project fear again... god what next .this project fear by the remain camp gets funnier by the day .grow up you lot "But that's the thing, it's not. This isn't some pressure group giving these warnings, it's the government. | |||
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"Knowing the British publics ability to go into panic buying mode if there's 3 feet of snow on the lawn for more than 24hrs.There will be a run on certain food items like spam etc. I would hope anyone who voted out will keep the faith of the true meaning of brexit and resist the urge to stockpile for the brexapocalypse. "Won't they be panic buying gammon? | |||
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"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had. No, not at all. If there are shortages then where do the military come into it? If the goods are in the country then the normal infrastructure will distribute them. If the goods are not in the country then no amount of military trucks, helicopters Etc will change anything. It's a complete non story. You're totally missing the point about supply & demand again. If we have X amount of whatever but the demand is much much higher than that..... Penny dropped yet ? We go straight in to WTO rules. Just like Europe trades with every other country they have with no trade deal. It’s all scaremongering. Nothing less. That's not the topic at hand though is it. We're talking about if / why the Military may or may not be required to distribute food / medicines etc If there are no shortages then fine great stuff but if there are shortages then that's why the Military may have to assist in allocation. Fookynella. This is getting beyond parody. What next? Ration books? I'll bet you believed in the millennium bug as well. FFS Get a grip. Yes. And I have a very strong suspicion you didn’t believe in the millennium bug. Idiot. -Matt Yep. because it didn't fucking well happen. Scaremongering idiot. Why didn't it happen?
Among the more blatant scare stories knocking around at the time were:
Power cuts.
Food shortages (amazing how that one keeps popping up)
Planes falling out of the sky (ok we were told a few did but they were usually full of African billionaires whose Nigerian lawyers want to find a home for their money )
My ex Mrs was a very senior civil servant at the time (so senior they gave her a gong when she retired) and spent almost a full year preparing for the so called bug. Apart from an occasional hiccup sod all happened and all this "Scary Movie" Brexit shit will be no different, as much as many on here (yourself included) would like it to be.
The question was "Why didn't it happen?""Because it didn't exist. It was a myth. A hypothetical theory. Even at high government level they couldn't solve the (so called) problem. They pretty much all sat at midnight with the cheeks or their arses flapping and not knowing what the fuck would happen. Then, fanfare of trumpets please............. Fuck all happened. Even my bog standard windows '95 PC didn't miss a beat. I would love to know how much taxpayers money they spunked on all that "preparation" though. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"it's alluding to the military being required to control crowds as limited rations are distributed in a similar way as we see film footage of distribution of scarce supplies in famine struck areas of the globe
Yep it is code for the military will be used to control the distribution of food and medicines. Now the question is who will get the supplies, and I am afraid that I am reminded of 'Protect and Survive' and its message that the country was like a forest and that if the forest catches fire it is necessary for the undergrowth, brushwood and saplings to be sacrificed so that the 'great trees of the forest' could survive.
I wonder how many here are 'great trees' and how many are undergrowth and brushwood?
Just as an aside, I have heard that there are no commercial insulin manufacturing facilities and it will take at least 2 years to build one. If we crash out of the EU even stockpiling at the fastest rate possible (buying all surplus production round the world) between no and march we will run out of insulin sometime next summer and those with type 1 diabetes will start dying. All I hear from the leave camp is there is nothing to worry about, I wonder how many with type 1 diabetes would agree with that? Maybe a leaver with type 1 will tell us all it is project fear again... god what next .this project fear by the remain camp gets funnier by the day .grow up you lot
But that's the thing, it's not. This isn't some pressure group giving these warnings, it's the government. "They very same government you keep telling us is useless. | |||
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| Reply privately |
"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had. No, not at all. If there are shortages then where do the military come into it? If the goods are in the country then the normal infrastructure will distribute them. If the goods are not in the country then no amount of military trucks, helicopters Etc will change anything. It's a complete non story. You're totally missing the point about supply & demand again. If we have X amount of whatever but the demand is much much higher than that..... Penny dropped yet ? We go straight in to WTO rules. Just like Europe trades with every other country they have with no trade deal. It’s all scaremongering. Nothing less. That's not the topic at hand though is it. We're talking about if / why the Military may or may not be required to distribute food / medicines etc If there are no shortages then fine great stuff but if there are shortages then that's why the Military may have to assist in allocation. Fookynella. This is getting beyond parody. What next? Ration books? I'll bet you believed in the millennium bug as well. FFS Get a grip. Yes. And I have a very strong suspicion you didn’t believe in the millennium bug. Idiot. -Matt Yep. because it didn't fucking well happen. Scaremongering idiot. Why didn't it happen?
Among the more blatant scare stories knocking around at the time were:
Power cuts.
Food shortages (amazing how that one keeps popping up)
Planes falling out of the sky (ok we were told a few did but they were usually full of African billionaires whose Nigerian lawyers want to find a home for their money )
My ex Mrs was a very senior civil servant at the time (so senior they gave her a gong when she retired) and spent almost a full year preparing for the so called bug. Apart from an occasional hiccup sod all happened and all this "Scary Movie" Brexit shit will be no different, as much as many on here (yourself included) would like it to be.
The question was "Why didn't it happen?"
Because it didn't exist. It was a myth. A hypothetical theory.
Even at high government level they couldn't solve the (so called) problem.
They pretty much all sat at midnight with the cheeks or their arses flapping and not knowing what the fuck would happen.
Then, fanfare of trumpets please............. Fuck all happened.
Even my bog standard windows '95 PC didn't miss a beat.
I would love to know how much taxpayers money they spunked on all that "preparation" though."It didn't happen because people spent time and money making sure it didn't happen. Look at what happens now, anyone trying to make sure Brexit isn't a complete and unmitigated disaster is attacked by the very people who want Brexit to happen! Brexiters obviously want Brexit to be as painful, as costly and as damaging to as many people as possible. Otherwise they would be glad that preparations are taking place. By the way, you still haven't answered my question about if Spain and Germany are preparing their military. After all, they need us more than we need them, right? Or has that changed? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"it's alluding to the military being required to control crowds as limited rations are distributed in a similar way as we see film footage of distribution of scarce supplies in famine struck areas of the globe
Yep it is code for the military will be used to control the distribution of food and medicines. Now the question is who will get the supplies, and I am afraid that I am reminded of 'Protect and Survive' and its message that the country was like a forest and that if the forest catches fire it is necessary for the undergrowth, brushwood and saplings to be sacrificed so that the 'great trees of the forest' could survive.
I wonder how many here are 'great trees' and how many are undergrowth and brushwood?
Just as an aside, I have heard that there are no commercial insulin manufacturing facilities and it will take at least 2 years to build one. If we crash out of the EU even stockpiling at the fastest rate possible (buying all surplus production round the world) between no and march we will run out of insulin sometime next summer and those with type 1 diabetes will start dying. All I hear from the leave camp is there is nothing to worry about, I wonder how many with type 1 diabetes would agree with that? Maybe a leaver with type 1 will tell us all it is project fear again... god what next .this project fear by the remain camp gets funnier by the day .grow up you lot
But that's the thing, it's not. This isn't some pressure group giving these warnings, it's the government.
They very same government you keep telling us is useless. "The government that you want to have more say and control? Yeah, that government. If they are so useless, why would you want them in charge of things that are currently looked after by the EU? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had. No, not at all. If there are shortages then where do the military come into it? If the goods are in the country then the normal infrastructure will distribute them. If the goods are not in the country then no amount of military trucks, helicopters Etc will change anything. It's a complete non story. You're totally missing the point about supply & demand again. If we have X amount of whatever but the demand is much much higher than that..... Penny dropped yet ? We go straight in to WTO rules. Just like Europe trades with every other country they have with no trade deal. It’s all scaremongering. Nothing less. That's not the topic at hand though is it. We're talking about if / why the Military may or may not be required to distribute food / medicines etc If there are no shortages then fine great stuff but if there are shortages then that's why the Military may have to assist in allocation. Fookynella. This is getting beyond parody. What next? Ration books? I'll bet you believed in the millennium bug as well. FFS Get a grip. Yes. And I have a very strong suspicion you didn’t believe in the millennium bug. Idiot. -Matt Yep. because it didn't fucking well happen. Scaremongering idiot. Why didn't it happen?
Among the more blatant scare stories knocking around at the time were:
Power cuts.
Food shortages (amazing how that one keeps popping up)
Planes falling out of the sky (ok we were told a few did but they were usually full of African billionaires whose Nigerian lawyers want to find a home for their money )
My ex Mrs was a very senior civil servant at the time (so senior they gave her a gong when she retired) and spent almost a full year preparing for the so called bug. Apart from an occasional hiccup sod all happened and all this "Scary Movie" Brexit shit will be no different, as much as many on here (yourself included) would like it to be.
The question was "Why didn't it happen?"
Because it didn't exist. It was a myth. A hypothetical theory.
Even at high government level they couldn't solve the (so called) problem.
They pretty much all sat at midnight with the cheeks or their arses flapping and not knowing what the fuck would happen.
Then, fanfare of trumpets please............. Fuck all happened.
Even my bog standard windows '95 PC didn't miss a beat.
I would love to know how much taxpayers money they spunked on all that "preparation" though.
It didn't happen because people spent time and money making sure it didn't happen.
Look at what happens now, anyone trying to make sure Brexit isn't a complete and unmitigated disaster is attacked by the very people who want Brexit to happen! Brexiters obviously want Brexit to be as painful, as costly and as damaging to as many people as possible. Otherwise they would be glad that preparations are taking place.
By the way, you still haven't answered my question about if Spain and Germany are preparing their military. After all, they need us more than we need them, right? Or has that changed?"Because, as you well know, it's a ridiculous question. No-one is preparing the military, not even Britain. As you well know it's just a spin to scare people into supporting Mother Teresa's capitulation. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had. No, not at all. If there are shortages then where do the military come into it? If the goods are in the country then the normal infrastructure will distribute them. If the goods are not in the country then no amount of military trucks, helicopters Etc will change anything. It's a complete non story. You're totally missing the point about supply & demand again. If we have X amount of whatever but the demand is much much higher than that..... Penny dropped yet ? We go straight in to WTO rules. Just like Europe trades with every other country they have with no trade deal. It’s all scaremongering. Nothing less. That's not the topic at hand though is it. We're talking about if / why the Military may or may not be required to distribute food / medicines etc If there are no shortages then fine great stuff but if there are shortages then that's why the Military may have to assist in allocation. Fookynella. This is getting beyond parody. What next? Ration books? I'll bet you believed in the millennium bug as well. FFS Get a grip. Yes. And I have a very strong suspicion you didn’t believe in the millennium bug. Idiot. -Matt Yep. because it didn't fucking well happen. Scaremongering idiot. Why didn't it happen?
Among the more blatant scare stories knocking around at the time were:
Power cuts.
Food shortages (amazing how that one keeps popping up)
Planes falling out of the sky (ok we were told a few did but they were usually full of African billionaires whose Nigerian lawyers want to find a home for their money )
My ex Mrs was a very senior civil servant at the time (so senior they gave her a gong when she retired) and spent almost a full year preparing for the so called bug. Apart from an occasional hiccup sod all happened and all this "Scary Movie" Brexit shit will be no different, as much as many on here (yourself included) would like it to be.
The question was "Why didn't it happen?"
Because it didn't exist. It was a myth. A hypothetical theory.
Even at high government level they couldn't solve the (so called) problem.
They pretty much all sat at midnight with the cheeks or their arses flapping and not knowing what the fuck would happen.
Then, fanfare of trumpets please............. Fuck all happened.
Even my bog standard windows '95 PC didn't miss a beat.
I would love to know how much taxpayers money they spunked on all that "preparation" though.
It didn't happen because people spent time and money making sure it didn't happen.
Look at what happens now, anyone trying to make sure Brexit isn't a complete and unmitigated disaster is attacked by the very people who want Brexit to happen! Brexiters obviously want Brexit to be as painful, as costly and as damaging to as many people as possible. Otherwise they would be glad that preparations are taking place.
By the way, you still haven't answered my question about if Spain and Germany are preparing their military. After all, they need us more than we need them, right? Or has that changed?
Because, as you well know, it's a ridiculous question.
No-one is preparing the military, not even Britain. As you well know it's just a spin to scare people into supporting Mother Teresa's capitulation."Why is the UK capitulating? We are the ones in control, right? | |||
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| Reply privately |
"it's alluding to the military being required to control crowds as limited rations are distributed in a similar way as we see film footage of distribution of scarce supplies in famine struck areas of the globe
Yep it is code for the military will be used to control the distribution of food and medicines. Now the question is who will get the supplies, and I am afraid that I am reminded of 'Protect and Survive' and its message that the country was like a forest and that if the forest catches fire it is necessary for the undergrowth, brushwood and saplings to be sacrificed so that the 'great trees of the forest' could survive.
I wonder how many here are 'great trees' and how many are undergrowth and brushwood?
Just as an aside, I have heard that there are no commercial insulin manufacturing facilities and it will take at least 2 years to build one. If we crash out of the EU even stockpiling at the fastest rate possible (buying all surplus production round the world) between no and march we will run out of insulin sometime next summer and those with type 1 diabetes will start dying. All I hear from the leave camp is there is nothing to worry about, I wonder how many with type 1 diabetes would agree with that? Maybe a leaver with type 1 will tell us all it is project fear again... god what next .this project fear by the remain camp gets funnier by the day .grow up you lot
But that's the thing, it's not. This isn't some pressure group giving these warnings, it's the government.
They very same government you keep telling us is useless.
The government that you want to have more say and control? Yeah, that government. If they are so useless, why would you want them in charge of things that are currently looked after by the EU? "Ah!!!! Light bulb moment. It's you that keeps saying the Tories are useless and that we should all vote for comrade Corbyn's Liebour party. Not me. I'm no lover of TM or of many of her ministers. I also thing she is well wrong on Brexit. However I'm a Tory though and through. Not so much fuelled by any love of the party (that faded after they got rid of God's more intelligent sister). I'm a Tory only because of my hatred and loathing of the Labour party and everything it stands for. If you broke me in half "I Fucking well hate the Labour party" would run through me like the lettering on a stick of Blackpool rock. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"it's alluding to the military being required to control crowds as limited rations are distributed in a similar way as we see film footage of distribution of scarce supplies in famine struck areas of the globe
Yep it is code for the military will be used to control the distribution of food and medicines. Now the question is who will get the supplies, and I am afraid that I am reminded of 'Protect and Survive' and its message that the country was like a forest and that if the forest catches fire it is necessary for the undergrowth, brushwood and saplings to be sacrificed so that the 'great trees of the forest' could survive.
I wonder how many here are 'great trees' and how many are undergrowth and brushwood?
Just as an aside, I have heard that there are no commercial insulin manufacturing facilities and it will take at least 2 years to build one. If we crash out of the EU even stockpiling at the fastest rate possible (buying all surplus production round the world) between no and march we will run out of insulin sometime next summer and those with type 1 diabetes will start dying. All I hear from the leave camp is there is nothing to worry about, I wonder how many with type 1 diabetes would agree with that? Maybe a leaver with type 1 will tell us all it is project fear again... god what next .this project fear by the remain camp gets funnier by the day .grow up you lot
But that's the thing, it's not. This isn't some pressure group giving these warnings, it's the government.
They very same government you keep telling us is useless.
The government that you want to have more say and control? Yeah, that government. If they are so useless, why would you want them in charge of things that are currently looked after by the EU?
Ah!!!! Light bulb moment.
It's you that keeps saying the Tories are useless and that we should all vote for comrade Corbyn's Liebour party. Not me.
I'm no lover of TM or of many of her ministers. I also thing she is well wrong on Brexit. However I'm a Tory though and through. Not so much fuelled by any love of the party (that faded after they got rid of God's more intelligent sister).
I'm a Tory only because of my hatred and loathing of the Labour party and everything it stands for.
If you broke me in half "I Fucking well hate the Labour party" would run through me like the lettering on a stick of Blackpool rock."Find one post where I have told anyone to vote for Corbyn. So if you are such a great Tory, why are you attacking the plans mentioned in this thread? Laughing at Raab's comments about stockpiling? Do you agree with JRMs assertions that after Brexit we can adopt the same environmental legislation as India, despite them having 14 out of the 15 most polluted cities in the world? You must also be incredibly proud of our new Tory Foreign Secretary who forgets if is wife is from Japan or China, when talking to the Chinese! | |||
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| Reply privately |
"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had. No, not at all. If there are shortages then where do the military come into it? If the goods are in the country then the normal infrastructure will distribute them. If the goods are not in the country then no amount of military trucks, helicopters Etc will change anything. It's a complete non story. You're totally missing the point about supply & demand again. If we have X amount of whatever but the demand is much much higher than that..... Penny dropped yet ? We go straight in to WTO rules. Just like Europe trades with every other country they have with no trade deal. It’s all scaremongering. Nothing less. That's not the topic at hand though is it. We're talking about if / why the Military may or may not be required to distribute food / medicines etc If there are no shortages then fine great stuff but if there are shortages then that's why the Military may have to assist in allocation. Fookynella. This is getting beyond parody. What next? Ration books? I'll bet you believed in the millennium bug as well. FFS Get a grip. Yes. And I have a very strong suspicion you didn’t believe in the millennium bug. Idiot. -Matt Yep. because it didn't fucking well happen. Scaremongering idiot. Why didn't it happen?
Among the more blatant scare stories knocking around at the time were:
Power cuts.
Food shortages (amazing how that one keeps popping up)
Planes falling out of the sky (ok we were told a few did but they were usually full of African billionaires whose Nigerian lawyers want to find a home for their money )
My ex Mrs was a very senior civil servant at the time (so senior they gave her a gong when she retired) and spent almost a full year preparing for the so called bug. Apart from an occasional hiccup sod all happened and all this "Scary Movie" Brexit shit will be no different, as much as many on here (yourself included) would like it to be.
The question was "Why didn't it happen?"
Because it didn't exist. It was a myth. A hypothetical theory.
Even at high government level they couldn't solve the (so called) problem.
They pretty much all sat at midnight with the cheeks or their arses flapping and not knowing what the fuck would happen.
Then, fanfare of trumpets please............. Fuck all happened.
Even my bog standard windows '95 PC didn't miss a beat.
I would love to know how much taxpayers money they spunked on all that "preparation" though.
It didn't happen because people spent time and money making sure it didn't happen.
Look at what happens now, anyone trying to make sure Brexit isn't a complete and unmitigated disaster is attacked by the very people who want Brexit to happen! Brexiters obviously want Brexit to be as painful, as costly and as damaging to as many people as possible. Otherwise they would be glad that preparations are taking place.
By the way, you still haven't answered my question about if Spain and Germany are preparing their military. After all, they need us more than we need them, right? Or has that changed?
Because, as you well know, it's a ridiculous question.
No-one is preparing the military, not even Britain. As you well know it's just a spin to scare people into supporting Mother Teresa's capitulation."The remainer | |||
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| Reply privately |
"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had. No, not at all. If there are shortages then where do the military come into it? If the goods are in the country then the normal infrastructure will distribute them. If the goods are not in the country then no amount of military trucks, helicopters Etc will change anything. It's a complete non story. You're totally missing the point about supply & demand again. If we have X amount of whatever but the demand is much much higher than that..... Penny dropped yet ? We go straight in to WTO rules. Just like Europe trades with every other country they have with no trade deal. It’s all scaremongering. Nothing less. That's not the topic at hand though is it. We're talking about if / why the Military may or may not be required to distribute food / medicines etc If there are no shortages then fine great stuff but if there are shortages then that's why the Military may have to assist in allocation. Fookynella. This is getting beyond parody. What next? Ration books? I'll bet you believed in the millennium bug as well. FFS Get a grip. Yes. And I have a very strong suspicion you didn’t believe in the millennium bug. Idiot. -Matt Yep. because it didn't fucking well happen. Scaremongering idiot. Why didn't it happen?
Among the more blatant scare stories knocking around at the time were:
Power cuts.
Food shortages (amazing how that one keeps popping up)
Planes falling out of the sky (ok we were told a few did but they were usually full of African billionaires whose Nigerian lawyers want to find a home for their money )
My ex Mrs was a very senior civil servant at the time (so senior they gave her a gong when she retired) and spent almost a full year preparing for the so called bug. Apart from an occasional hiccup sod all happened and all this "Scary Movie" Brexit shit will be no different, as much as many on here (yourself included) would like it to be.
The question was "Why didn't it happen?"
Because it didn't exist. It was a myth. A hypothetical theory.
Even at high government level they couldn't solve the (so called) problem.
They pretty much all sat at midnight with the cheeks or their arses flapping and not knowing what the fuck would happen.
Then, fanfare of trumpets please............. Fuck all happened.
Even my bog standard windows '95 PC didn't miss a beat.
I would love to know how much taxpayers money they spunked on all that "preparation" though.
It didn't happen because people spent time and money making sure it didn't happen.
Look at what happens now, anyone trying to make sure Brexit isn't a complete and unmitigated disaster is attacked by the very people who want Brexit to happen! Brexiters obviously want Brexit to be as painful, as costly and as damaging to as many people as possible. Otherwise they would be glad that preparations are taking place.
By the way, you still haven't answered my question about if Spain and Germany are preparing their military. After all, they need us more than we need them, right? Or has that changed?
Because, as you well know, it's a ridiculous question.
No-one is preparing the military, not even Britain. As you well know it's just a spin to scare people into supporting Mother Teresa's capitulation.
Why is the UK capitulating? We are the ones in control, right? "No but we fucking well should be. TM is running around waving bits of paper like Neville fucking Chamberlain. Someone needs to grow a pair and tell Barnier, Juncker and Co how much THEY NEED TO PAY to do business with the world 5th largest economy, Germany's biggest export market for cars, France's biggest export market for wine, Spain's biggest tourist market, and many many more. I find the appeasement and downright defeatism from the government right down to the contributors on threads like this absolutely astounding. Even Lord Owen (co-founder of the LiB Dems and former arch Europhile) says that the EU has outlived its usefulness. Even the German government is frozen like a Rabbit in the headlights because it dare not go to the country again. Knowing damn well that the Eurosceptic parties (both left and right) will make more gains if it did. Austria, Italy, Poland, and Hungary all have Eurosceptic governments, and many others are close. Accept it. The EU is terminally ill and is doomed to fail. The only question is when? Britain is right to jump ship, and the powers that be in the EU know that as well. That is why they are trying their best to derail it. Their only fear is contagion and one successful leaver will bring the whole rotten edifice crashing down. Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive beyond all bounds. | |||
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"So much sweet wishful brexit thinking in one thread it's giving me indigestion digesting such rich words . "Yes I sympathise. Remainers always do find the hard truth difficult to swallow. Try Rennies. | |||
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"Knowing the British publics ability to go into panic buying mode if there's 3 feet of snow on the lawn for more than 24hrs.There will be a run on certain food items like spam etc. I would hope anyone who voted out will keep the faith of the true meaning of brexit and resist the urge to stockpile for the brexapocalypse. "bobbbbb yr obsessed with spam mate have you tasted it it’s rank you are right tho as we’ve seen with the snow ppl panic buy with milk and bread sometimes but I think the tinned stuff like spam will sit on the shelves for decades after all it’s been there since the war lol | |||
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"Knowing the British publics ability to go into panic buying mode if there's 3 feet of snow on the lawn for more than 24hrs.There will be a run on certain food items like spam etc. I would hope anyone who voted out will keep the faith of the true meaning of brexit and resist the urge to stockpile for the brexapocalypse. bobbbbb yr obsessed with spam mate have you tasted it it’s rank you are right tho as we’ve seen with the snow ppl panic buy with milk and bread sometimes but I think the tinned stuff like spam will sit on the shelves for decades after all it’s been there since the war lol "Spam spam spam spam, spam span spam spam, WONDERFUL SPAAAAAAM! | |||
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"So much sweet wishful brexit thinking in one thread it's giving me indigestion digesting such rich words .
Yes I sympathise. Remainers always do find the hard truth difficult to swallow.
Try Rennies."Any talk of stockpiling food and medicines in Spain and Germany? | |||
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"So much sweet wishful brexit thinking in one thread it's giving me indigestion digesting such rich words .
Yes I sympathise. Remainers always do find the hard truth difficult to swallow.
Try Rennies.
Any talk of stockpiling food and medicines in Spain and Germany? "Bloody migrants next they'llbe running the country | |||
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| Reply privately |
"So much sweet wishful brexit thinking in one thread it's giving me indigestion digesting such rich words .
Yes I sympathise. Remainers always do find the hard truth difficult to swallow.
Try Rennies.
Any talk of stockpiling food and medicines in Spain and Germany? "No. Why should there be? More to the point, why should there be in Britain? | |||
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"Getting the military to distribute food & medicines is totally inefficient as they don't have the right vehicles/equipment and enough of them. The same as when they provided cover when the fire brigades were on strike." You really don't get it... We have less than 300,000 military personnel including reserves and probably the same on the strategic reserve list that is not enough to run a nationwide distribution network. But it is enough to provide the armed guards with orders to shoot on sight all looters! As for the vehicles and equipment to do the job efficiently I somehow think that tanks, APC's and military personnel with assault rifles and a couple of hundred live rounds each are perfectly suited for the role. "god what next .this project fear by the remain camp gets funnier by the day .grow up you lot " I've just listened to a government spokesman telling the country that there is nothing to worry about because the government and NHS have been making plans for months. Seems like more strong and stable to me. In fact I am going to quote a line of poetry that I think perfectly describes our government and brexit: Then spoke the bride’s father, his hand on his sword, (For the poor craven bridegroom said never a word,) The bridegroom is the Government and the brides father is whoever is the latest to step forward and say 'it'll be alright' "There's going to be a good few pinocchios walking around before long .you lot would have let Hitler walk all over you .get a grip .its pathetic " Agreed about the Pinocchio's but I think you may well find the people who have lobbied for brexit are the liars. As for your 'get a grip' remember it was Tory arseholes who ran down the armed forces in the 30's and a Tory arsehole who came back from Berlin waving a bit of shit paper and crying "peace in our time!" Now just exactly who is telling us that there is nothing to worry about while having presided over 10 years of cuts and 2 years of pushing brexit into the long grass having caused this shit-storm in the first place? And by the way the biggest mistakes a commander can make are firstly to refuse to acknowledge there may be a risk. (Note the word MAY, all I hear is nothing to see here, project fear.) And even worse not to plan for every eventuality. "They very same government you keep telling us is useless. "Yep! And I am still waiting to see them prove themselves to be anything but a gang of corrupt, incompetent, authoritarians who have no honer and continually abrogate responsibility when their corruption and incompetence are discovered. | |||
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"So much sweet wishful brexit thinking in one thread it's giving me indigestion digesting such rich words .
Yes I sympathise. Remainers always do find the hard truth difficult to swallow.
Try Rennies.
Any talk of stockpiling food and medicines in Spain and Germany?
No. Why should there be? More to the point, why should there be in Britain?"Because brexiters have been telling us for years that it's going to be worse for EU members, lile Spain and Germany, than it will be for the UK. If they aren't stockpiling, then doesn't that proof that brexiters have been talking crap for years? AstraZeneca, the 2nd largest drug manufacturer in the UK have already confirmed they are stockpiling medicines. | |||
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"Ffs armed guards with orders to shoot to kill looters assault rifles with a few hundred rounds this is getting bloody stupid now " People will do anything for spam to get through the dark times coming.Even run the gauntlet of gun fire to Tesco . .Brexaggedon. | |||
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"There are stock piles of drugs, food, blankets, water, and just about any essential commodity you care to mention in every wealthy country around the globe. All stored for any conceivable emergency that may, or may not, happen. It's normal. Quiet news week "Except . . . The food chain has tried to become so efficient it works on a "just in time" basis. Food does not get stored - it gets moved on a just in time basis. Society is 3 days away from a breakdown of law and order in the event of a catastrophic disturbance - that is how long it takes for people to resort to their instincts. | |||
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"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had. No, not at all. If there are shortages then where do the military come into it? If the goods are in the country then the normal infrastructure will distribute them. If the goods are not in the country then no amount of military trucks, helicopters Etc will change anything. It's a complete non story. You're totally missing the point about supply & demand again. If we have X amount of whatever but the demand is much much higher than that..... Penny dropped yet ? We go straight in to WTO rules. Just like Europe trades with every other country they have with no trade deal. It’s all scaremongering. Nothing less. That's not the topic at hand though is it. We're talking about if / why the Military may or may not be required to distribute food / medicines etc If there are no shortages then fine great stuff but if there are shortages then that's why the Military may have to assist in allocation. Fookynella. This is getting beyond parody. What next? Ration books? I'll bet you believed in the millennium bug as well. FFS Get a grip. Yes. And I have a very strong suspicion you didn’t believe in the millennium bug. Idiot. -Matt Yep. because it didn't fucking well happen. Scaremongering idiot. Why didn't it happen?
Among the more blatant scare stories knocking around at the time were:
Power cuts.
Food shortages (amazing how that one keeps popping up)
Planes falling out of the sky (ok we were told a few did but they were usually full of African billionaires whose Nigerian lawyers want to find a home for their money )
My ex Mrs was a very senior civil servant at the time (so senior they gave her a gong when she retired) and spent almost a full year preparing for the so called bug. Apart from an occasional hiccup sod all happened and all this "Scary Movie" Brexit shit will be no different, as much as many on here (yourself included) would like it to be.
The question was "Why didn't it happen?"
Because it didn't exist. It was a myth. A hypothetical theory.
Even at high government level they couldn't solve the (so called) problem.
They pretty much all sat at midnight with the cheeks or their arses flapping and not knowing what the fuck would happen.
Then, fanfare of trumpets please............. Fuck all happened.
Even my bog standard windows '95 PC didn't miss a beat.
I would love to know how much taxpayers money they spunked on all that "preparation" though.
It didn't happen because people spent time and money making sure it didn't happen.
Look at what happens now, anyone trying to make sure Brexit isn't a complete and unmitigated disaster is attacked by the very people who want Brexit to happen! Brexiters obviously want Brexit to be as painful, as costly and as damaging to as many people as possible. Otherwise they would be glad that preparations are taking place.
By the way, you still haven't answered my question about if Spain and Germany are preparing their military. After all, they need us more than we need them, right? Or has that changed?
Because, as you well know, it's a ridiculous question.
No-one is preparing the military, not even Britain. As you well know it's just a spin to scare people into supporting Mother Teresa's capitulation.
Why is the UK capitulating? We are the ones in control, right?
No but we fucking well should be.
TM is running around waving bits of paper like Neville fucking Chamberlain.
Someone needs to grow a pair and tell Barnier, Juncker and Co how much THEY NEED TO PAY to do business with the world 5th largest economy, Germany's biggest export market for cars, France's biggest export market for wine, Spain's biggest tourist market, and many many more.
I find the appeasement and downright defeatism from the government right down to the contributors on threads like this absolutely astounding.
Even Lord Owen (co-founder of the LiB Dems and former arch Europhile) says that the EU has outlived its usefulness.
Even the German government is frozen like a Rabbit in the headlights because it dare not go to the country again. Knowing damn well that the Eurosceptic parties (both left and right) will make more gains if it did.
Austria, Italy, Poland, and Hungary all have Eurosceptic governments, and many others are close.
Accept it. The EU is terminally ill and is doomed to fail. The only question is when?
Britain is right to jump ship, and the powers that be in the EU know that as well. That is why they are trying their best to derail it. Their only fear is contagion and one successful leaver will bring the whole rotten edifice crashing down.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive beyond all bounds."That's an honest summary of the state and direction of the EU - it's clearly in decline and the population of the EU in general is becoming more and more Eurosceptic Next up is Sweden - (Sept elections) Sweden Democrats a right wing Eurosceptic party have made huge gains If it can happen in Sweden ....... it can and probably will in all other member states | |||
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"There are stock piles of drugs, food, blankets, water, and just about any essential commodity you care to mention in every wealthy country around the globe. All stored for any conceivable emergency that may, or may not, happen. It's normal. Quiet news week "Let's look at one of your statements. The UK stockpiles water. Really? Do you think there is a giant warehouse somewhere full of bottles of Avian? I'm pretty sure the bunker where the Queen etc flee to will be well stocked. But the rest of us? Nah. Do you mean reservoirs that supply the taps in your house and mine? How long do these last? We've seen water shortage warnings this summer. And when supply gets tight, who do you think gets prioritised? Not me or you, for sure. Why is supply tight? Because the pipes underground are ancient. And the people who own them are not in the slightest bit interested in serving the national interest. Their priority is to keep the money flowing upwards to shareholders. Water. You can live for weeks without food but you'll die after a few days without water. England decided to hand control of its water to the City of London. If you think the City of London stockpiles water in the national interest, think again. | |||
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"There are stock piles of drugs, food, blankets, water, and just about any essential commodity you care to mention in every wealthy country around the globe. All stored for any conceivable emergency that may, or may not, happen. It's normal. Quiet news week "Except the UK government under Thatcher sold off all the 'civil defense' stockpiles including the granaries, fuel, vehicles and emergency shelters in the 80's as part of the winning the cold war bonus. Just to be clear if you like I can name some of the CaDs, CoDs and CvDs, and RaDs and RoDs as well as more than a few of the Civil Defense local and regional granaries that were emptied and sold off. But hey, what do I know. | |||
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"Society is 3 days away from a breakdown of law and order in the event of a catastrophic disturbance - that is how long it takes for people to resort to their instincts. " I would say you are out by 2 days... We are 3 meals away from revolution. "Let's look at one of your statements. The UK stockpiles water. Really? Do you think there is a giant warehouse somewhere full of bottles of Avian? I'm pretty sure the bunker where the Queen etc flee to will be well stocked. But the rest of us? Nah. Do you mean reservoirs that supply the taps in your house and mine? How long do these last? We've seen water shortage warnings this summer. And when supply gets tight, who do you think gets prioritised? Not me or you, for sure. Why is supply tight? Because the pipes underground are ancient. And the people who own them are not in the slightest bit interested in serving the national interest. Their priority is to keep the money flowing upwards to shareholders. Water. You can live for weeks without food but you'll die after a few days without water. England decided to hand control of its water to the City of London. If you think the City of London stockpiles water in the national interest, think again." I know for a fact that at least in part Boubepo is correct. Because I know that in the North West there are hundreds of reservoirs that were decommissioned (as in taken off line) in the 90s by North West Water because the water companies paid off the Tories of the day to change the law regarding water abstraction from aquifers allowing the water companies to maximise profits by shutting down 'local covered' water storage facilities and 'small open' reservoirs. Of course they all still hold water its just we don't get it! And I am pretty sure if NWW were doing it so were the rest. | |||
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"Getting the military to distribute food & medicines is totally inefficient as they don't have the right vehicles/equipment and enough of them. The same as when they provided cover when the fire brigades were on strike. You really don't get it... We have less than 300,000 military personnel including reserves and probably the same on the strategic reserve list that is not enough to run a nationwide distribution network. But it is enough to provide the armed guards with orders to shoot on sight all looters! As for the vehicles and equipment to do the job efficiently I somehow think that tanks, APC's and military personnel with assault rifles and a couple of hundred live rounds each are perfectly suited for the role." What don't I get? Are you seriously suggesting RDCs, stores and fuel stations would have armed troops outside? That lorries delivering goods would be escorted by main battle tanks and armoured personnel carriers? BTW I've noticed you keep exaggerating your numbers recently. This time it is by 50%! According to Wikipedia the British Armed Forces have 153,470 UK Regulars and Gurkhas, 35,200 Volunteer Reserves and 8,160 "Other Personnel" as of 1 May 2016. This gives a total strength of 196,840. Considerably less than 300,000! | |||
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"Getting the military to distribute food & medicines is totally inefficient as they don't have the right vehicles/equipment and enough of them. The same as when they provided cover when the fire brigades were on strike. You really don't get it... We have less than 300,000 military personnel including reserves and probably the same on the strategic reserve list that is not enough to run a nationwide distribution network. But it is enough to provide the armed guards with orders to shoot on sight all looters! As for the vehicles and equipment to do the job efficiently I somehow think that tanks, APC's and military personnel with assault rifles and a couple of hundred live rounds each are perfectly suited for the role. What don't I get? Are you seriously suggesting RDCs, stores and fuel stations would have armed troops outside? That lorries delivering goods would be escorted by main battle tanks and armoured personnel carriers? BTW I've noticed you keep exaggerating your numbers recently. This time it is by 50%! According to Wikipedia the British Armed Forces have 153,470 UK Regulars and Gurkhas, 35,200 Volunteer Reserves and 8,160 "Other Personnel" as of 1 May 2016. This gives a total strength of 196,840. Considerably less than 300,000!" I would laugh it your post was not so tragic in its total misunderstanding of what I have said and what the Armed forces are. Lets start with your last point. The Army IS NOT The Armed Forces. There are 3 individual services in 'The Armed Forces'. They are called The Navy (Senior Service). The Army The RAF (the junior service). The figure you quote are ARMY. But every member of The Armed Forces completes the same Basic Foot Drill and Arms Drill (in that order) course. That is generally know as Basic Training. And that equips every member of the Armed Forces to fill the role of basic infantry soldier. As for the rest you seriously do not get it at all!!! I have not said at any point that anything would be distributed! In fact in my first post today I quoted 'Protect and Survive' and if you had any understanding of that and what I was saying you would realise that if the worst comes to the worst the vast majority of us are (and I'll say this again) UNDERGROWTH that MUST BE SACRIFICED so that the GREAT TREES OF THE FOREST SURVIVE! Essential supplies (food and medicine) will be transferred to centralised stores and guarded! There will be a hierarchy of entitlement. Government will be at the top, the civilian population at the bottom and the military will be used to secure essential supplies. I know you don't believe me, we would never do a thing like that! Were British! And all that shite! But in the 90's and 00's lots of stuff was declassified and you can read the orders in case of a nuclear attack. I would bet everything I own and will ever have (including my life) that those plans are if not already have been quietly reinstated and what has happened just now is that they have filtered down far enough that someone who is not up our governments and brexits arse has blown the whistle but softly enough not to get themselves to commit suicide in a woods because of the pressure going public has placed them under! Now off you go and see if you can work that ever so unsubtle reference out and then come back and tell me how fucked up my head is and how our government would never do something like that. After all they are One Nation Conservatives who are famous for their females quoting St Francis's prayer. | |||
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"So ministers are drawing up plans to use the military to distribute food and medicines. I think everyone is missing a huge gaping hole in this one, like where from? If the food/medicine is already in the country then unless the EU barricades the M1 or steals all our trucks, why would we need the military? While I have no idea about this story, you're missing the huge gaping hole of supply & demand if shortages are to be had. No, not at all. If there are shortages then where do the military come into it? If the goods are in the country then the normal infrastructure will distribute them. If the goods are not in the country then no amount of military trucks, helicopters Etc will change anything. It's a complete non story. You're totally missing the point about supply & demand again. If we have X amount of whatever but the demand is much much higher than that..... Penny dropped yet ? We go straight in to WTO rules. Just like Europe trades with every other country they have with no trade deal. It’s all scaremongering. Nothing less. That's not the topic at hand though is it. We're talking about if / why the Military may or may not be required to distribute food / medicines etc If there are no shortages then fine great stuff but if there are shortages then that's why the Military may have to assist in allocation. Fookynella. This is getting beyond parody. What next? Ration books? I'll bet you believed in the millennium bug as well. FFS Get a grip. Yes. And I have a very strong suspicion you didn’t believe in the millennium bug. Idiot. -Matt Yep. because it didn't fucking well happen. Scaremongering idiot." What do you mean “it didn’t fucking happen”? Did you miss the whole part about a whole army of programmers working through teams of code to make sure that it had as little as impact as possible? I sure didn’t, as I was one of them. There were still some small hiccups, but in general the issue was handled pretty well. As opposed to Brexit in which instead of trying to deal with the impeding deadline, the government are just sticking their head in the sand and trying to pretend it is not happening. -Matt | |||
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"What do you mean “it didn’t fucking happen”? Did you miss the whole part about a whole army of programmers working through teams of code to make sure that it had as little as impact as possible? I sure didn’t, as I was one of them. There were still some small hiccups, but in general the issue was handled pretty well. As opposed to Brexit in which instead of trying to deal with the impeding deadline, the government are just sticking their head in the sand and trying to pretend it is not happening. -Matt" The military didn't do that... All they are good for is painting coal black, grass green, picking up litter and marching around all day when they are not playing war with their bang bangs... You should know that! In fact it is a well known fact in civilian life that former service personnel are thick as pig-shit, panic over everything and cry wolf all the time. That is why it takes calm and level headed civilians to run military procurement and prepare for all emergencies. ... ... Something does not sound quite right there ... ... Snatch Land Rover, Humber Pig, Enfield Assault Rifle (L64/65), SA80 Mk1, was it 8 or 12 Chinooks that spent 20 years in storage because a civil servant bought the one that saved a million each air-frame but could not carry any of our electronic equipment? Maybe it is time for me to shut up before I say something I may regret! | |||
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"Getting the military to distribute food & medicines is totally inefficient as they don't have the right vehicles/equipment and enough of them. The same as when they provided cover when the fire brigades were on strike. You really don't get it... We have less than 300,000 military personnel including reserves and probably the same on the strategic reserve list that is not enough to run a nationwide distribution network. But it is enough to provide the armed guards with orders to shoot on sight all looters! As for the vehicles and equipment to do the job efficiently I somehow think that tanks, APC's and military personnel with assault rifles and a couple of hundred live rounds each are perfectly suited for the role. What don't I get? Are you seriously suggesting RDCs, stores and fuel stations would have armed troops outside? That lorries delivering goods would be escorted by main battle tanks and armoured personnel carriers? BTW I've noticed you keep exaggerating your numbers recently. This time it is by 50%! According to Wikipedia the British Armed Forces have 153,470 UK Regulars and Gurkhas, 35,200 Volunteer Reserves and 8,160 "Other Personnel" as of 1 May 2016. This gives a total strength of 196,840. Considerably less than 300,000! I would laugh it your post was not so tragic in its total misunderstanding of what I have said and what the Armed forces are. Lets start with your last point. The Army IS NOT The Armed Forces. There are 3 individual services in 'The Armed Forces'. They are called The Navy (Senior Service). The Army The RAF (the junior service). The figure you quote are ARMY. But every member of The Armed Forces completes the same Basic Foot Drill and Arms Drill (in that order) course. That is generally know as Basic Training. And that equips every member of the Armed Forces to fill the role of basic infantry soldier. As for the rest you seriously do not get it at all!!! I have not said at any point that anything would be distributed! In fact in my first post today I quoted 'Protect and Survive' and if you had any understanding of that and what I was saying you would realise that if the worst comes to the worst the vast majority of us are (and I'll say this again) UNDERGROWTH that MUST BE SACRIFICED so that the GREAT TREES OF THE FOREST SURVIVE! Essential supplies (food and medicine) will be transferred to centralised stores and guarded! There will be a hierarchy of entitlement. Government will be at the top, the civilian population at the bottom and the military will be used to secure essential supplies. I know you don't believe me, we would never do a thing like that! Were British! And all that shite! But in the 90's and 00's lots of stuff was declassified and you can read the orders in case of a nuclear attack. I would bet everything I own and will ever have (including my life) that those plans are if not already have been quietly reinstated and what has happened just now is that they have filtered down far enough that someone who is not up our governments and brexits arse has blown the whistle but softly enough not to get themselves to commit suicide in a woods because of the pressure going public has placed them under! Now off you go and see if you can work that ever so unsubtle reference out and then come back and tell me how fucked up my head is and how our government would never do something like that. After all they are One Nation Conservatives who are famous for their females quoting St Francis's prayer." I think your hatred for anything Tory clouds your judgement. I don't doubt 'Protect & Survive' exists. What I find incredulous is your suggestion that a no-deal Brexit is now the same as a nuclear attack, with the government and the elite retreating to a bunker, top secret storage depots guarded by troops with orders to shoot to kill, whilst the country descends into anarchy. All this whilst ships loaded with containers wait in the channel unable to dock and unload because we have left the EU. The figure I quoted is for the British Armed Forces. If I meant just the Army I would have said that. I'll break these down for each of the three services (again from Wikipedia), starting with the Senior Service as it is the correct thing to do despite being the smallest service in terms of regular personnel... Royal Navy: 32,880 regulars and 3,040 in volunteer reserves. Army: 83,360 regulars and 29,600 in volunteer reserves. RAF: 36,140 regulars and 7,120 in volunteer reserves. Total: 152,380 regulars and 39,760 volunteer reserves. You may (or may not) notice that the totals don't match my original figures - this could be due to the date the figures were taken for each service. As I have said, the figures are from Wikipedia. I have no reason to doubt these but obviously you do so can you provide your figures and source(s)? BTW, thank you for the breakdown of the three services and the explanation about basic training. You really know your stuff! | |||
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"So much sweet wishful brexit thinking in one thread it's giving me indigestion digesting such rich words .
Yes I sympathise. Remainers always do find the hard truth difficult to swallow.
Try Rennies.
Any talk of stockpiling food and medicines in Spain and Germany?
No. Why should there be? More to the point, why should there be in Britain?
Because brexiters have been telling us for years that it's going to be worse for EU members, lile Spain and Germany, than it will be for the UK. If they aren't stockpiling, then doesn't that proof that brexiters have been talking crap for years?
AstraZeneca, the 2nd largest drug manufacturer in the UK have already confirmed they are stockpiling medicines. "Maybe Astrazeneca are. If so then no doubt they will have their own reasons to do so. BTW GSK are not and I have that from an ultra reliable source. As for the rest of the above it's just nonsense, nay drivel. Not one Brexiter has EVER said that Spain or Germany (or any other EU country) will have to stockpile food. Jeez if the border to Britain did actually close the Spanish would be fucking buried in it. What I and others HAVE SAID is that if the EU keep playing silly buggers then Germany, Spain, and many others will be affected by losing or severely limiting one of THEIR biggest export markets for many products. Nothing to do with any of them stockpiling. Just your usual shit to try to be controversial or just plain old fashioned trolling. Or both. | |||
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"I think your hatred for anything Tory clouds your judgement. I don't doubt 'Protect & Survive' exists. What I find incredulous is your suggestion that a no-deal Brexit is now the same as a nuclear attack, with the government and the elite retreating to a bunker, top secret storage depots guarded by troops with orders to shoot to kill, whilst the country descends into anarchy. All this whilst ships loaded with containers wait in the channel unable to dock and unload because we have left the EU. The figure I quoted is for the British Armed Forces. If I meant just the Army I would have said that. I'll break these down for each of the three services (again from Wikipedia), starting with the Senior Service as it is the correct thing to do despite being the smallest service in terms of regular personnel... Royal Navy: 32,880 regulars and 3,040 in volunteer reserves. Army: 83,360 regulars and 29,600 in volunteer reserves. RAF: 36,140 regulars and 7,120 in volunteer reserves. Total: 152,380 regulars and 39,760 volunteer reserves. You may (or may not) notice that the totals don't match my original figures - this could be due to the date the figures were taken for each service. As I have said, the figures are from Wikipedia. I have no reason to doubt these but obviously you do so can you provide your figures and source(s)? BTW, thank you for the breakdown of the three services and the explanation about basic training. You really know your stuff!" My apologies, I had not realised that this latest lot had run our forces down so much. The Armed Forces total manpower as of 1/4/18 was: 194 140 The source of this is: UK Armed Forces Quarterly Service Personnel Statistics 1 April 2018 I am sure you will be wanting to check the MoD stats yourself. And you still do not get it. The State's, not the Tories or Labour's first priority is to ensure the state survives. It will sacrifice all of us if it has to, and regardless of how remote you think it is, there is a possibility (not I hope a probability) that we crash out of the EU with no deal with the EU and no WTO deal. IF (note big if) this happens the likelihood is the first action of the state will be to secure what it requires to survive! My problem with the Tories is that under Thatcher they became a party of 'bugger you Jack, I'm alright' and in their rush to gather power and enrich themselves they have yet again put the whole population of the country unnecessarily at risk. Worse still they have form for this in modern times. They did it in the 30's and now they are at it again, and just like in the 30's much of the country refuse to believe what is in front of their faces! | |||
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"At the end of the day the EU is fighting for its very existence. If they just bow down and give us everything we want every country will follow suit. It’s like a game if dare at the moment. If we stand our ground they will have to trade with us. Imagine telling the French farmers they can’t sell their goods. They protest at the drop of the hat as it is. They will cause carnage if they get told their French golden delicious has to be thrown away. The EU should just act like adults and already have a deal in place with us. At the moment they are acting like a fascist regime. I doubt very much it’s true but if it is the fact they will block medicines coming here and stand by and watch the health of people deteriate is ludicrous. Anyway. Don’t you think it’s funnt all this come out when parliament went in to recess. " Yes. They don't call it the silly season for nothing. | |||
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"We're all doomed! "We were always doomed.Some just bought into the illusion of control sold to the masses by the brexitemists. Others prepared for the brexitapocalypse | |||
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"Ffs how mental as this got on here now army shoot to kill calm down folks chill take a breath we are leaving the eu not the fucking planet the only panic iv seen is in here get a grip ffs " You think they shoot to wound? Or fire warning shots? | |||
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"What would be the hold up at customs? Why will no produce arrive on our shores? Or will they arrive but OUR customs will hold it all up? Why would they not just waive it through as they do now? Are the EU about to change all their standards after Brexit day? The same standards that we have now, and will have on that same day? There seems to be a presumption that our govt and customs run like automatons and are incapable of logical decision making. Its not rocket science....its the civil service. Though that could be more complex.
As has been pointed out, I think to you, before, to do what you are suggesting is against WTO rules. You know, the rules that we need to trade with the rest of the world. "You mean its not up to us wether or not we check each and every import? | |||
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"Ffs armed guards with orders to shoot to kill looters assault rifles with a few hundred rounds this is getting bloody stupid now People will do anything for spam to get through the dark times coming.Even run the gauntlet of gun fire to Tesco . .Brexaggedon." I've just ordered a half tonne of corned beef from Argentina. I'll sell you a few tins at cost. Plus my overheads. | |||
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"There are stock piles of drugs, food, blankets, water, and just about any essential commodity you care to mention in every wealthy country around the globe. All stored for any conceivable emergency that may, or may not, happen. It's normal. Quiet news week
Except . . .
The food chain has tried to become so efficient it works on a "just in time" basis.
Food does not get stored - it gets moved on a just in time basis.
Society is 3 days away from a breakdown of law and order in the event of a catastrophic disturbance - that is how long it takes for people to resort to their instincts.
"Not here. We know the importance of queuing and tutting whilst we look at our watches. | |||
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"Society is 3 days away from a breakdown of law and order in the event of a catastrophic disturbance - that is how long it takes for people to resort to their instincts. I would say you are out by 2 days... We are 3 meals away from revolution. Let's look at one of your statements. The UK stockpiles water. Really? Do you think there is a giant warehouse somewhere full of bottles of Avian? I'm pretty sure the bunker where the Queen etc flee to will be well stocked. But the rest of us? Nah. Do you mean reservoirs that supply the taps in your house and mine? How long do these last? We've seen water shortage warnings this summer. And when supply gets tight, who do you think gets prioritised? Not me or you, for sure. Why is supply tight? Because the pipes underground are ancient. And the people who own them are not in the slightest bit interested in serving the national interest. Their priority is to keep the money flowing upwards to shareholders. Water. You can live for weeks without food but you'll die after a few days without water. England decided to hand control of its water to the City of London. If you think the City of London stockpiles water in the national interest, think again. I know for a fact that at least in part Boubepo is correct. Because I know that in the North West there are hundreds of reservoirs that were decommissioned (as in taken off line) in the 90s by North West Water because the water companies paid off the Tories of the day to change the law regarding water abstraction from aquifers allowing the water companies to maximise profits by shutting down 'local covered' water storage facilities and 'small open' reservoirs. Of course they all still hold water its just we don't get it! And I am pretty sure if NWW were doing it so were the rest." They can however be brought online very quickly. But all the talk of water is moot anyway. Have you ever seen where most of the water for greater Manchester comes from. Those lakes in Cumbria are not drying up any time soon. | |||
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"They can however be brought online very quickly. But all the talk of water is moot anyway. Have you ever seen where most of the water for greater Manchester comes from. Those lakes in Cumbria are not drying up any time soon." Not sure about that, I would not be wanting to drink stagnant water. Yep! Its great! We have soft water whereas most of the country has hard water. No Calgon here! 
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"At the end of the day the EU is fighting for its very existence. If they just bow down and give us everything we want every country will follow suit. It’s like a game if dare at the moment. If we stand our ground they will have to trade with us. Imagine telling the French farmers they can’t sell their goods. They protest at the drop of the hat as it is. They will cause carnage if they get told their French golden delicious has to be thrown away. The EU should just act like adults and already have a deal in place with us. At the moment they are acting like a fascist regime. I doubt very much it’s true but if it is the fact they will block medicines coming here and stand by and watch the health of people deteriate is ludicrous. Anyway. Don’t you think it’s funnt all this come out when parliament went in to recess. " I've not heard anyone from the EU talk about food or medicine shortages in Britain after Brexit. All this shite is coming from 5th columnist remainers in the UK. Militant French farmers are just one example. Bear in mind that Britain is France's biggest export market for wine and quite a few other agricultural products. I can already imagine the bales of hay burning on the motorway if the EU even tried to start blocking their trade. Also remember that there is quite a large Eurosceptic movement in France and any scenario like that would only increase their support. Spain is another good case in point. Apart from Oranges and Lemons Spain sends Britain thousands and thousands of tons of Lettuce, Tomatoes, Peppers, and Olives. Not forgetting thousands of gallons of Olive oil and a good few bottles of wine as well. How does anyone think those farmers will react when their produce is roasting on the dock side or rotting in the fields? Yes the EU are playing hardball at the moment. They have to be seen as being the tough guys, but ultimately they won't cut their nose off to spite their face. It would be far too costly for THEM. | |||
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"They can however be brought online very quickly. But all the talk of water is moot anyway. Have you ever seen where most of the water for greater Manchester comes from. Those lakes in Cumbria are not drying up any time soon. Not sure about that, I would not be wanting to drink stagnant water. Yep! Its great! We have soft water whereas most of the country has hard water. No Calgon here!
"Its not stagnant though. It has a throughput, not as large as an online one, but it does have one. | |||
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"did u see the army with assault rifles shooting to kill in the London riots lol it’s just bollocks man " No but they only lasted a couple of night. However I did do a number of tours of NI where that is exactly what happened. And I did spend 2 nights sitting on RAF Burtonwood with a rifle ready to move into Toxteth if the Merseyside police lost control in 81. But your right, it would and has never happened. So you can scornfully dismiss the suggestion that maybe you should just ask yourself 'what if?'. | |||
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"They can however be brought online very quickly. But all the talk of water is moot anyway. Have you ever seen where most of the water for greater Manchester comes from. Those lakes in Cumbria are not drying up any time soon. Not sure about that, I would not be wanting to drink stagnant water. Yep! Its great! We have soft water whereas most of the country has hard water. No Calgon here!
Its not stagnant though. It has a throughput, not as large as an online one, but it does have one. "Well according to my friend (he is a micro-biologist) and used to work in one of NWW labs so I think he knows what he is talking about. He would not drink the water without sterilising it first. | |||
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"And you're an idiot, who will look so stupid, when nothing like that comes to pass. That's nice... Now just for a minute ask yourself: What will the government do if the supply chain breaks down and there are riots and looting across the country? Will they just let it continue or will they authorise 'Military Assistance to Civilian Authorities' and impose martial law?" You're assuming there will be troops willing to shoot civilians because Britain is no longer importing or exporting anything. I can understand it if there was a nuclear attack but certainly not because we have left the EU. Would you be prepared to shoot to kill because of a Brexit no-deal? Would you target only those who voted Leave? | |||
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"did u see the army with assault rifles shooting to kill in the London riots lol it’s just bollocks man No but they only lasted a couple of night. However I did do a number of tours of NI where that is exactly what happened. And I did spend 2 nights sitting on RAF Burtonwood with a rifle ready to move into Toxteth if the Merseyside police lost control in 81. But your right, it would and has never happened. So you can scornfully dismiss the suggestion that maybe you should just ask yourself 'what if?'." you mean them police that didn’t lose control armed with truncheons did you get the go ahead to shoot to kill if you were sent in ? | |||
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" I've not heard anyone from the EU talk about food or medicine shortages in Britain after Brexit. All this shite is coming from 5th columnist remainers in the UK. Militant French farmers are just one example. Bear in mind that Britain is France's biggest export market for wine and quite a few other agricultural products. I can already imagine the bales of hay burning on the motorway if the EU even tried to start blocking their trade. Also remember that there is quite a large Eurosceptic movement in France and any scenario like that would only increase their support. Spain is another good case in point. Apart from Oranges and Lemons Spain sends Britain thousands and thousands of tons of Lettuce, Tomatoes, Peppers, and Olives. Not forgetting thousands of gallons of Olive oil and a good few bottles of wine as well. How does anyone think those farmers will react when their produce is roasting on the dock side or rotting in the fields? Yes the EU are playing hardball at the moment. They have to be seen as being the tough guys, but ultimately they won't cut their nose off to spite their face. It would be far too costly for THEM." Lolol it never ceases to amaze how people continue to blame the EU for the consequences of the UK decision's to leave. The UK voted to leave. That means leaving the single market, everything on March 30 next year. That's all that's been confirmed so far from my understanding. No-one in Europe is blocking anything - it is the UK erecting barriers around the UK as a result of brexit. Now, the UK is knocking on the door of the EU asking to be let back into some things. No idea if that will happen. And the views of French farmers or German car workers will count for nothing in, say, Malta when its people are asked to approve or reject any arrangement with the UK. If you voted leave, you are responsible for the UK leaving the EU - every single bit of it. If you see barriers appearing, it is because you voted for them. | |||
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"You're assuming there will be troops willing to shoot civilians because Britain is no longer importing or exporting anything. I can understand it if there was a nuclear attack but certainly not because we have left the EU. Would you be prepared to shoot to kill because of a Brexit no-deal? Would you target only those who voted Leave?" I'm assuming that troops would obey orders. Just like the Paras did on Bloody Sunday and the Manchester Yeomanry did when ordered to charge in St Peters Fields and British troops have for centuries. And yes if I had been given a lawful order to fire I would most certainly have obeyed it regardless of who or what the target was. Now I have a question for you: Everyone knows The Charge of the Light Brigade and those famous lines: Theirs not to make reply, Theirs not to reason why, Theirs but to do and die: And the bloody-mindedness and obedience to orders that we are famous (or infamous) for around the world, and we continually have examples of troops obeying orders and not siding with civilians. So why do people like you always assume that this time it will be different? | |||
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"I can't see there being great shortages though perhaps for a couple of weeks cross channel traffic will grind to a halt as new measures to inspect and tax good are put in place on both sides. Biggest issue is many imported good will cost us 40% more including insulin, food and fuel" A 40% hike is a price worth paying for freedom and Britannia ruling the waves once again .Most patriots couldn't put a price on freedom ! | |||
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"I can't see there being great shortages though perhaps for a couple of weeks cross channel traffic will grind to a halt as new measures to inspect and tax good are put in place on both sides. Biggest issue is many imported good will cost us 40% more including insulin, food and fuel" I would have said the main problem is the 30% of our food needs that we import from the EU plus whatever comes from outside the EU overland from Mediterranean ports. And the problem will be holdups that will get worse daily. Not because of clearing customs at Dover but entering the EU and the extra time to process each non EU movement will lead to ferry delays and cancellations, which in turn will lead to traffic-jams on both sides of the channel which will lead to food spoiling on trucks. | |||
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"They can however be brought online very quickly. But all the talk of water is moot anyway. Have you ever seen where most of the water for greater Manchester comes from. Those lakes in Cumbria are not drying up any time soon. Not sure about that, I would not be wanting to drink stagnant water. Yep! Its great! We have soft water whereas most of the country has hard water. No Calgon here!
Its not stagnant though. It has a throughput, not as large as an online one, but it does have one.
Well according to my friend (he is a micro-biologist) and used to work in one of NWW labs so I think he knows what he is talking about. He would not drink the water without sterilising it first."It gets sterilised using coagulation, flocculation, sedimentation and ultra violet treatments. I wouldn't drink London tap water though! | |||
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"I can't see there being great shortages though perhaps for a couple of weeks cross channel traffic will grind to a halt as new measures to inspect and tax good are put in place on both sides. Biggest issue is many imported good will cost us 40% more including insulin, food and fuel" Why? Surely it will be the UK government who will decide what import duty to levy. Besides most fuel comes from either British resources or imports from outside the EU. | |||
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"Will mate u sound like one of them Vietnam vets who live in the woods with shell shock u live in fantasy world u be digging out yr bayonet next " Shell shock? I think you need to update your copy of the DSM. | |||
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"Aw shit were did I put my copy of the dsm lol _lcc you never get the crack do you it was a bit of fun buddy chill buddy ffs" DSM V is the latest edition I have .Its not real a page turner . | |||
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"I can't see there being great shortages though perhaps for a couple of weeks cross channel traffic will grind to a halt as new measures to inspect and tax good are put in place on both sides. Biggest issue is many imported good will cost us 40% more including insulin, food and fuel Why? Surely it will be the UK government who will decide what import duty to levy. Besides most fuel comes from either British resources or imports from outside the EU. " . Nope tariffs will be as per WTO rules until we sign trade deals and that will take years | |||
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"I can't see there being great shortages though perhaps for a couple of weeks cross channel traffic will grind to a halt as new measures to inspect and tax good are put in place on both sides. Biggest issue is many imported good will cost us 40% more including insulin, food and fuel Why? Surely it will be the UK government who will decide what import duty to levy. Besides most fuel comes from either British resources or imports from outside the EU. . Nope tariffs will be as per WTO rules until we sign trade deals and that will take years" So WTO rules say that food has a 40% tax? | |||
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"I can't see there being great shortages though perhaps for a couple of weeks cross channel traffic will grind to a halt as new measures to inspect and tax good are put in place on both sides. Biggest issue is many imported good will cost us 40% more including insulin, food and fuel Why? Surely it will be the UK government who will decide what import duty to levy. Besides most fuel comes from either British resources or imports from outside the EU. " Most fuel does come from outside the EU but you forget the EU has trade deals with much of the world, deals we helped with, but as of 31st March we will be a country without a trade deal with any one | |||
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"I can't see there being great shortages though perhaps for a couple of weeks cross channel traffic will grind to a halt as new measures to inspect and tax good are put in place on both sides. Biggest issue is many imported good will cost us 40% more including insulin, food and fuel A 40% hike is a price worth paying for freedom and Britannia ruling the waves once again .Most patriots couldn't put a price on freedom ! "Then most patriots are morons! What exactly does Brexit give you freedom from? The EU has its issues but whilst part of it I personally have lived free from war, free from poverty, free to travel, free from hunger, free from thirst, free (as least as far as it is possible) from the risk of death. Freedoms I would rather we don't risk sacrificing in the name of patriotism. Britannia rules the waves  I don't know if you are aware but this is no longer the 1800's, the Empire has gone lady, in this century we are a second class world power and still sliding. Brexit won't change that . It's a simple fact due to population and natural resource limitations. | |||
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"I can't see there being great shortages though perhaps for a couple of weeks cross channel traffic will grind to a halt as new measures to inspect and tax good are put in place on both sides. Biggest issue is many imported good will cost us 40% more including insulin, food and fuel Why? Surely it will be the UK government who will decide what import duty to levy. Besides most fuel comes from either British resources or imports from outside the EU. . Nope tariffs will be as per WTO rules until we sign trade deals and that will take years So WTO rules say that food has a 40% tax?" It varies by product, some may be fairly low others are higher than 40% | |||
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"I can't see there being great shortages though perhaps for a couple of weeks cross channel traffic will grind to a halt as new measures to inspect and tax good are put in place on both sides. Biggest issue is many imported good will cost us 40% more including insulin, food and fuel Why? Surely it will be the UK government who will decide what import duty to levy. Besides most fuel comes from either British resources or imports from outside the EU. . Nope tariffs will be as per WTO rules until we sign trade deals and that will take years So WTO rules say that food has a 40% tax? It varies by product, some may be fairly low others are higher than 40%" tax is paid by the importer but the cost would have to be pushed on to the consumer | |||
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"I can't see there being great shortages though perhaps for a couple of weeks cross channel traffic will grind to a halt as new measures to inspect and tax good are put in place on both sides. Biggest issue is many imported good will cost us 40% more including insulin, food and fuel Why? Surely it will be the UK government who will decide what import duty to levy. Besides most fuel comes from either British resources or imports from outside the EU. . Nope tariffs will be as per WTO rules until we sign trade deals and that will take years So WTO rules say that food has a 40% tax? It varies by product, some may be fairly low others are higher than 40% tax is paid by the importer but the cost would have to be pushed on to the consumer" If and only IF the importing country wants to impose it. | |||
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"I can't see there being great shortages though perhaps for a couple of weeks cross channel traffic will grind to a halt as new measures to inspect and tax good are put in place on both sides. Biggest issue is many imported good will cost us 40% more including insulin, food and fuel Why? Surely it will be the UK government who will decide what import duty to levy. Besides most fuel comes from either British resources or imports from outside the EU. . Nope tariffs will be as per WTO rules until we sign trade deals and that will take years So WTO rules say that food has a 40% tax? It varies by product, some may be fairly low others are higher than 40% tax is paid by the importer but the cost would have to be pushed on to the consumer If and only IF the importing country wants to impose it." You don't have a very good grasp on how the WTO works do you. | |||
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"I can't see there being great shortages though perhaps for a couple of weeks cross channel traffic will grind to a halt as new measures to inspect and tax good are put in place on both sides. Biggest issue is many imported good will cost us 40% more including insulin, food and fuel Why? Surely it will be the UK government who will decide what import duty to levy. Besides most fuel comes from either British resources or imports from outside the EU. . Nope tariffs will be as per WTO rules until we sign trade deals and that will take years So WTO rules say that food has a 40% tax? It varies by product, some may be fairly low others are higher than 40% tax is paid by the importer but the cost would have to be pushed on to the consumer If and only IF the importing country wants to impose it. You don't have a very good grasp on how the WTO works do you. " cant a country do this is they give the same rate to all countries? | |||
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"I can't see there being great shortages though perhaps for a couple of weeks cross channel traffic will grind to a halt as new measures to inspect and tax good are put in place on both sides. Biggest issue is many imported good will cost us 40% more including insulin, food and fuel Why? Surely it will be the UK government who will decide what import duty to levy. Besides most fuel comes from either British resources or imports from outside the EU. . Nope tariffs will be as per WTO rules until we sign trade deals and that will take years So WTO rules say that food has a 40% tax? It varies by product, some may be fairly low others are higher than 40% tax is paid by the importer but the cost would have to be pushed on to the consumer If and only IF the importing country wants to impose it. You don't have a very good grasp on how the WTO works do you. cant a country do this is they give the same rate to all countries? " They can, but I doubt many Brexiters would agree to the UK unilaterally dropping tariffs when other countries are keeping tariffs on UK goods. Also, this isn't what Fox has signed us up for. He instead has decided to carbon copy the WTO tariff schedule directly from the EU. So that's why we will still be paying import tariffs on bananas. Despite the fact that we don't grow any. | |||
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"I can't see there being great shortages though perhaps for a couple of weeks cross channel traffic will grind to a halt as new measures to inspect and tax good are put in place on both sides. Biggest issue is many imported good will cost us 40% more including insulin, food and fuel Why? Surely it will be the UK government who will decide what import duty to levy. Besides most fuel comes from either British resources or imports from outside the EU. . Nope tariffs will be as per WTO rules until we sign trade deals and that will take years So WTO rules say that food has a 40% tax? It varies by product, some may be fairly low others are higher than 40% tax is paid by the importer but the cost would have to be pushed on to the consumer If and only IF the importing country wants to impose it. You don't have a very good grasp on how the WTO works do you. cant a country do this is they give the same rate to all countries? They can, but I doubt many Brexiters would agree to the UK unilaterally dropping tariffs when other countries are keeping tariffs on UK goods. Also, this isn't what Fox has signed us up for. He instead has decided to carbon copy the WTO tariff schedule directly from the EU. So that's why we will still be paying import tariffs on bananas. Despite the fact that we don't grow any." dont disagree. Just checking my understanding ! | |||
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" I've not heard anyone from the EU talk about food or medicine shortages in Britain after Brexit. All this shite is coming from 5th columnist remainers in the UK. Militant French farmers are just one example. Bear in mind that Britain is France's biggest export market for wine and quite a few other agricultural products. I can already imagine the bales of hay burning on the motorway if the EU even tried to start blocking their trade. Also remember that there is quite a large Eurosceptic movement in France and any scenario like that would only increase their support. Spain is another good case in point. Apart from Oranges and Lemons Spain sends Britain thousands and thousands of tons of Lettuce, Tomatoes, Peppers, and Olives. Not forgetting thousands of gallons of Olive oil and a good few bottles of wine as well. How does anyone think those farmers will react when their produce is roasting on the dock side or rotting in the fields? Yes the EU are playing hardball at the moment. They have to be seen as being the tough guys, but ultimately they won't cut their nose off to spite their face. It would be far too costly for THEM. Lolol it never ceases to amaze how people continue to blame the EU for the consequences of the UK decision's to leave. The UK voted to leave. That means leaving the single market, everything on March 30 next year. That's all that's been confirmed so far from my understanding. No-one in Europe is blocking anything - it is the UK erecting barriers around the UK as a result of brexit. Now, the UK is knocking on the door of the EU asking to be let back into some things. No idea if that will happen. And the views of French farmers or German car workers will count for nothing in, say, Malta when its people are asked to approve or reject any arrangement with the UK. If you voted leave, you are responsible for the UK leaving the EU - every single bit of it. If you see barriers appearing, it is because you voted for them." So true, any form of barrier that now follows is only a direct result of voting to leave the EU. Any attempt at blaming anyone else is just ludicrous. | |||
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"You're assuming there will be troops willing to shoot civilians because Britain is no longer importing or exporting anything. I can understand it if there was a nuclear attack but certainly not because we have left the EU. Would you be prepared to shoot to kill because of a Brexit no-deal? Would you target only those who voted Leave? I'm assuming that troops would obey orders. Just like the Paras did on Bloody Sunday and the Manchester Yeomanry did when ordered to charge in St Peters Fields and British troops have for centuries. And yes if I had been given a lawful order to fire I would most certainly have obeyed it regardless of who or what the target was. Now I have a question for you: Everyone knows The Charge of the Light Brigade and those famous lines: Theirs not to make reply, Theirs not to reason why, Theirs but to do and die: And the bloody-mindedness and obedience to orders that we are famous (or infamous) for around the world, and we continually have examples of troops obeying orders and not siding with civilians. So why do people like you always assume that this time it will be different?" So you would shoot unarmed civilians if ordered to, to defend a regime which, as you said in earlier posts on this thread, would sacrifice the general population in order to survive? Reminds me of an interview with a former member of the Einsatzgruppen. He said he was following orders too. | |||
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"You're assuming there will be troops willing to shoot civilians because Britain is no longer importing or exporting anything. I can understand it if there was a nuclear attack but certainly not because we have left the EU. Would you be prepared to shoot to kill because of a Brexit no-deal? Would you target only those who voted Leave? I'm assuming that troops would obey orders. Just like the Paras did on Bloody Sunday and the Manchester Yeomanry did when ordered to charge in St Peters Fields and British troops have for centuries. And yes if I had been given a lawful order to fire I would most certainly have obeyed it regardless of who or what the target was. Now I have a question for you: Everyone knows The Charge of the Light Brigade and those famous lines: Theirs not to make reply, Theirs not to reason why, Theirs but to do and die: And the bloody-mindedness and obedience to orders that we are famous (or infamous) for around the world, and we continually have examples of troops obeying orders and not siding with civilians. So why do people like you always assume that this time it will be different? So you would shoot unarmed civilians if ordered to, to defend a regime which, as you said in earlier posts on this thread, would sacrifice the general population in order to survive? Reminds me of an interview with a former member of the Einsatzgruppen. He said he was following orders too." The military would try to use non lethal force first, but if they had to use lethal force, they would. | |||
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"You're assuming there will be troops willing to shoot civilians because Britain is no longer importing or exporting anything. I can understand it if there was a nuclear attack but certainly not because we have left the EU. Would you be prepared to shoot to kill because of a Brexit no-deal? Would you target only those who voted Leave? I'm assuming that troops would obey orders. Just like the Paras did on Bloody Sunday and the Manchester Yeomanry did when ordered to charge in St Peters Fields and British troops have for centuries. And yes if I had been given a lawful order to fire I would most certainly have obeyed it regardless of who or what the target was. Now I have a question for you: Everyone knows The Charge of the Light Brigade and those famous lines: Theirs not to make reply, Theirs not to reason why, Theirs but to do and die: And the bloody-mindedness and obedience to orders that we are famous (or infamous) for around the world, and we continually have examples of troops obeying orders and not siding with civilians. So why do people like you always assume that this time it will be different? So you would shoot unarmed civilians if ordered to, to defend a regime which, as you said in earlier posts on this thread, would sacrifice the general population in order to survive? Reminds me of an interview with a former member of the Einsatzgruppen. He said he was following orders too. The military would try to use non lethal force first, but if they had to use lethal force, they would. " And that makes it okay to shoot unarmed civilians? | |||
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"So you would shoot unarmed civilians if ordered to, to defend a regime which, as you said in earlier posts on this thread, would sacrifice the general population in order to survive? Reminds me of an interview with a former member of the Einsatzgruppen. He said he was following orders too." So now I'm wrong because only Nazi death squads do things like that... Again I give you Para's on Bloody Sunday. Soldiers obey orders, they are conditioned to do so and if ordered to kill civilians they kill civilians. They do it all the time all over the world! It is what soldiers do! That so many are so willfully ignorant of this simple fact and refuse to believe that their soldiers would do such a thing despite all the evidence to the contrary I find incredulous! But hey whats new don't like the message, blame the messenger! | |||
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" "You're assuming there will be troops willing to shoot civilians because Britain is no longer importing or exporting anything. I can understand it if there was a nuclear attack but certainly not because we have left the EU. Would you be prepared to shoot to kill because of a Brexit no-deal? Would you target only those who voted Leave? I'm assuming that troops would obey orders. Just like the Paras did on Bloody Sunday and the Manchester Yeomanry did when ordered to charge in St Peters Fields and British troops have for centuries. And yes if I had been given a lawful order to fire I would most certainly have obeyed it regardless of who or what the target was. Now I have a question for you: Everyone knows The Charge of the Light Brigade and those famous lines: Theirs not to make reply, Theirs not to reason why, Theirs but to do and die: And the bloody-mindedness and obedience to orders that we are famous (or infamous) for around the world, and we continually have examples of troops obeying orders and not siding with civilians. So why do people like you always assume that this time it will be different? So you would shoot unarmed civilians if ordered to, to defend a regime which, as you said in earlier posts on this thread, would sacrifice the general population in order to survive? Reminds me of an interview with a former member of the Einsatzgruppen. He said he was following orders too. The military would try to use non lethal force first, but if they had to use lethal force, they would. " And that makes it okay to shoot unarmed civilians?" It depends what the unarmed civilians are trying to do. We are not talking about law abiding citizens going about their daily business here. We are talking about a situation when these unarmed civilians are attacking a military convoy. I know a Royal Marine who spends his days protecting our nuclear powered and nuclear armed submarines. He is armed and ready to use lethal force as necessary to protect those vessels, weapons and facilities. To allow someone to either damage such national strategic assets, or even worse, steal them, just because they are unarmed, is moronic in the extreme. | |||
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