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"Fascinating programme of BBC1 right now about how we, the public, are manipulated and hooked into media. Horrifying, too." missed it. Was in Facebook. And insta. And Sc. Bet it was all rubbish tho.  | |||
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"So true you just need to see most people are never off there phones and have you ever left your phone at home then been lost all day without it " I was at Swingfields festival last weekend. When I got there on Thursday I shut my phone away in the glove box in the car and didn't get it back out until I left Swingfields on Sunday. Can honestly say I didn't miss my phone at all. | |||
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"Good lord, what drivel." What is? Anyway I knew this years ago. A product manager on twitter quit because the purpose of Twitter went from sharing status/news to how to keep people hooked on wanting new content. Also read "Hooked" in making habits from your users. The author warned it can be used for harm too. Think gamification. For those who aren't hooked... That's truly awesome. | |||
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"Good lord, what drivel. What is? " This hand wringing about mobile phones being the devil and making it so young people are "unable to think". All it is is old people yelling at clouds about kids these days and their strange ways. | |||
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"Good lord, what drivel. What is? This hand wringing about mobile phones being the devil and making it so young people are "unable to think". All it is is old people yelling at clouds about kids these days and their strange ways." It is the generation gap,but when I got to about 50 I realised my parents where right about most things,the cycle will repeat | |||
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"Good lord, what drivel. What is? This hand wringing about mobile phones being the devil and making it so young people are "unable to think". All it is is old people yelling at clouds about kids these days and their strange ways.It is the generation gap,but when I got to about 50 I realised my parents where right about most things,the cycle will repeat" Yes, the tiresome habit of people slowly becoming as wrong as their parents is about as old as time. Socrates bitched about it too. | |||
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"Good lord, what drivel. What is? This hand wringing about mobile phones being the devil and making it so young people are "unable to think". All it is is old people yelling at clouds about kids these days and their strange ways." Ah true. But one it's not the phone or the technology it's the intention of the tech companies. So could regulation bring these bad habit forming apps from appearing in app stores? | |||
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"Good lord, what drivel. What is? This hand wringing about mobile phones being the devil and making it so young people are "unable to think". All it is is old people yelling at clouds about kids these days and their strange ways. Ah true. But one it's not the phone or the technology it's the intention of the tech companies. So could regulation bring these bad habit forming apps from appearing in app stores?" You'd need to define bad habits in a meaningful way, and as well define bad intentions. Anything that does automatic curation of the media you see will endeavour to learn what you want to see and show you that. Is that nefarious? How do we distinguish between an earnest attempt to show what the user is interested in Vs an attempt to manipulate? Or would we be better leaving that decision with the consumer, as we have with more traditional media? The Daily Mail may be a lying shitrag, but we still let it be sold with the understanding that the buyer either doesn't know or doesn't care and that's on them? | |||
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"Good lord, what drivel. What is? This hand wringing about mobile phones being the devil and making it so young people are "unable to think". All it is is old people yelling at clouds about kids these days and their strange ways. Ah true. But one it's not the phone or the technology it's the intention of the tech companies. So could regulation bring these bad habit forming apps from appearing in app stores? You'd need to define bad habits in a meaningful way, and as well define bad intentions. Anything that does automatic curation of the media you see will endeavour to learn what you want to see and show you that. Is that nefarious? How do we distinguish between an earnest attempt to show what the user is interested in Vs an attempt to manipulate? Or would we be better leaving that decision with the consumer, as we have with more traditional media? The Daily Mail may be a lying shitrag, but we still let it be sold with the understanding that the buyer either doesn't know or doesn't care and that's on them? " Very true. I'm being abstract. Let's take candy crush. It's addictive. They use various techniques. Like making you invest time into the game so it's hard to stop. They give you a sense of almost achieving something so you continue to play. Ok this is entertaining. But they remove the value of money by using tokens. So if you pay the add-ons you don't associate it with the real cost and make you overpay. The whole paying to win the game is also designed to make you buy more. The intention is to trick you to pay more. On your example you're not addicted to the daily mail. They use manipulation to make you believe their point of view. Pursuasive design and hooked techniques are designed to make you come back. | |||
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"Good lord, what drivel. What is? This hand wringing about mobile phones being the devil and making it so young people are "unable to think". All it is is old people yelling at clouds about kids these days and their strange ways. Ah true. But one it's not the phone or the technology it's the intention of the tech companies. So could regulation bring these bad habit forming apps from appearing in app stores? You'd need to define bad habits in a meaningful way, and as well define bad intentions. Anything that does automatic curation of the media you see will endeavour to learn what you want to see and show you that. Is that nefarious? How do we distinguish between an earnest attempt to show what the user is interested in Vs an attempt to manipulate? Or would we be better leaving that decision with the consumer, as we have with more traditional media? The Daily Mail may be a lying shitrag, but we still let it be sold with the understanding that the buyer either doesn't know or doesn't care and that's on them? Very true. I'm being abstract. Let's take candy crush. It's addictive. They use various techniques. Like making you invest time into the game so it's hard to stop. They give you a sense of almost achieving something so you continue to play. Ok this is entertaining. But they remove the value of money by using tokens. So if you pay the add-ons you don't associate it with the real cost and make you overpay. The whole paying to win the game is also designed to make you buy more. The intention is to trick you to pay more. On your example you're not addicted to the daily mail. They use manipulation to make you believe their point of view. Pursuasive design and hooked techniques are designed to make you come back." All true, but is it that much different to what, say, pinball machines did? You kept playing as you had a high score, and so close to a free ball, etc etc. I think there are two big impacts that hopefully will make a difference soon: 1) Better regulation of personal data, and the way in which it can be used to target you. GDPR etc is a good step in the right direction of this 2) The emergence of alternative revenue models than advertising online. E.g. micropayments. At the moment the main revenue model is getting you to view as many advertisements, or to collect enough personal data to sell. If instead we can get a working model of micropayments (I pay a thousandth of a pence for each web page I access, for example) then the need to be so subersive with data collection goes away. -Matt | |||
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"Good lord, what drivel. What is? This hand wringing about mobile phones being the devil and making it so young people are "unable to think". All it is is old people yelling at clouds about kids these days and their strange ways. Ah true. But one it's not the phone or the technology it's the intention of the tech companies. So could regulation bring these bad habit forming apps from appearing in app stores? You'd need to define bad habits in a meaningful way, and as well define bad intentions. Anything that does automatic curation of the media you see will endeavour to learn what you want to see and show you that. Is that nefarious? How do we distinguish between an earnest attempt to show what the user is interested in Vs an attempt to manipulate? Or would we be better leaving that decision with the consumer, as we have with more traditional media? The Daily Mail may be a lying shitrag, but we still let it be sold with the understanding that the buyer either doesn't know or doesn't care and that's on them? Very true. I'm being abstract. Let's take candy crush. It's addictive. They use various techniques. Like making you invest time into the game so it's hard to stop. They give you a sense of almost achieving something so you continue to play. Ok this is entertaining. But they remove the value of money by using tokens. So if you pay the add-ons you don't associate it with the real cost and make you overpay. The whole paying to win the game is also designed to make you buy more. The intention is to trick you to pay more. On your example you're not addicted to the daily mail. They use manipulation to make you believe their point of view. Pursuasive design and hooked techniques are designed to make you come back." Candy crush is a masterclass in design, both in term of the game itself and how it encourages, but does not coerce, the player to spend money. It's finely balanced in that regard, with progress being reasonably achievable without spending a penny. And as it is a free product, so I am not going to begrudge them that. But I was more interested in media and media curation than f2p games. I don't think anyone has ever had their world view shaped by candy crush. | |||
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"Yes I do not have a smartphone,never will. I think they should be banned along with facebook and twitter. You should not be allowed to use a smartphone anyway till your at least 18 as they are causing are youth to be unable to think it is frightening" Yeah good idea, let’s go back to using carrier pigeons.  | |||
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"Good lord, what drivel. What is? This hand wringing about mobile phones being the devil and making it so young people are "unable to think". All it is is old people yelling at clouds about kids these days and their strange ways." Putting aside how the discussion developed after the above post, I live in London and, unfortunately, mobile phones, socia media, etc play a huge role and, in most cases, are directly linked with the rise in stabbings and murders amongst young people/teenagers especially. A row on facebook/whatsapp, quickly escalates to "meet up to sort it out in person" and/or grudges/animosity that lead to tit for tat violence between various groups and/or individuals. | |||
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"People will not revolt they will not look up long enough from their screens to notice what is happening - George Orwell . Fortunately that wasn’t all of us "Of course fascism and extremism comes about gradually,it's a slow route .They wouldn't persuade the masses otherwise.  | |||
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"People will not revolt they will not look up long enough from their screens to notice what is happening - George Orwell . Fortunately that wasn’t all of us
Of course fascism and extremism comes about gradually,it's a slow route .They wouldn't persuade the masses otherwise. "Exactly. And you fell for it | |||
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"People will not revolt they will not look up long enough from their screens to notice what is happening - George Orwell . Fortunately that wasn’t all of us "Unsurprisingly, Orwell never said that. It does not appear in any if his works, and especially not in 1984, which most people claim it does. It's the kind of email forward level bullshit that people regurgitate because they think it makes then clever. | |||
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"Good lord, what drivel. What is? This hand wringing about mobile phones being the devil and making it so young people are "unable to think". All it is is old people yelling at clouds about kids these days and their strange ways. Putting aside how the discussion developed after the above post, I live in London and, unfortunately, mobile phones, socia media, etc play a huge role and, in most cases, are directly linked with the rise in stabbings and murders amongst young people/teenagers especially. A row on facebook/whatsapp, quickly escalates to "meet up to sort it out in person" and/or grudges/animosity that lead to tit for tat violence between various groups and/or individuals." As I'm old enough to have been a teenager before mobile phones were a thing, Ibknow this kind of stuff was happening just fine without smartphones. Smartphones didn't create this behaviour. | |||
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"People will not revolt they will not look up long enough from their screens to notice what is happening - George Orwell . Fortunately that wasn’t all of us
Unsurprisingly, Orwell never said that.
It does not appear in any if his works, and especially not in 1984, which most people claim it does.
It's the kind of email forward level bullshit that people regurgitate because they think it makes then clever."True. And I don’t think most people claim it does at all. But what it does foretell is the feaomgering and manipulation of the masses through telescreens. Leaving the EU will be a disaster and lead to WW3 anyone? | |||
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"People will not revolt they will not look up long enough from their screens to notice what is happening - George Orwell . Fortunately that wasn’t all of us
Unsurprisingly, Orwell never said that.
It does not appear in any if his works, and especially not in 1984, which most people claim it does.
It's the kind of email forward level bullshit that people regurgitate because they think it makes then clever.
True. And I don’t think most people claim it does at all. But what it does foretell is the feaomgering and manipulation of the masses through telescreens. Leaving the EU will be a disaster and lead to WW3 anyone?"Wait, so how does a made up quote foretell anything? Someone, literally, made it up recently enough, attached the name of a famous author to it in order to lend it authenticity and despite knowing all that you're still just nodding your head and going "yup, foretells things, this does". It's a stupid notion, and one that is easily disproven. If this generation was so consumed by the devil that is mobile phones, to the point of political and social apathy, we should expect changes to go unopposed, and the status quo to remain unchallenged. Yet, we have strong movements in the US against various the various racist policies of the Whitehouse, closer to home, Ireland should never have repealed the eighth amendment, and as fucking stupid as it is, a world where people are numbed by mobile phones couldn't have given us brexit. It's the kind of dumb platitude that only makes sense if you don't think about it. | |||
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"People will not revolt they will not look up long enough from their screens to notice what is happening - George Orwell . Fortunately that wasn’t all of us
Of course fascism and extremism comes about gradually,it's a slow route .They wouldn't persuade the masses otherwise.
Exactly. And you fell for it "Sorry sunshine it's the nefarious agendas of people like you I never fall for.I bet your school report always read " Must try harder" | |||
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"People will not revolt they will not look up long enough from their screens to notice what is happening - George Orwell . Fortunately that wasn’t all of us
Unsurprisingly, Orwell never said that.
It does not appear in any if his works, and especially not in 1984, which most people claim it does.
It's the kind of email forward level bullshit that people regurgitate because they think it makes then clever.
True. And I don’t think most people claim it does at all. But what it does foretell is the feaomgering and manipulation of the masses through telescreens. Leaving the EU will be a disaster and lead to WW3 anyone?
Wait, so how does a made up quote foretell anything?
Someone, literally, made it up recently enough, attached the name of a famous author to it in order to lend it authenticity and despite knowing all that you're still just nodding your head and going "yup, foretells things, this does".
It's a stupid notion, and one that is easily disproven. If this generation was so consumed by the devil that is mobile phones, to the point of political and social apathy, we should expect changes to go unopposed, and the status quo to remain unchallenged.
Yet, we have strong movements in the US against various the various racist policies of the Whitehouse, closer to home, Ireland should never have repealed the eighth amendment, and as fucking stupid as it is, a world where people are numbed by mobile phones couldn't have given us brexit.
It's the kind of dumb platitude that only makes sense if you don't think about it."That’s why I said fortunately it wasn’t all of us  | |||
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"People will not revolt they will not look up long enough from their screens to notice what is happening - George Orwell . Fortunately that wasn’t all of us
Of course fascism and extremism comes about gradually,it's a slow route .They wouldn't persuade the masses otherwise.
Exactly. And you fell for it
Sorry sunshine it's the nefarious agendas of people like you I never fall for.I bet your school report always read " Must try harder" "What is the agenda of the EU that you didn’t fall for? | |||
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"People will not revolt they will not look up long enough from their screens to notice what is happening - George Orwell . Fortunately that wasn’t all of us
Of course fascism and extremism comes about gradually,it's a slow route .They wouldn't persuade the masses otherwise.
Exactly. And you fell for it
Sorry sunshine it's the nefarious agendas of people like you I never fall for.I bet your school report always read " Must try harder"
What is the agenda of the EU that you didn’t fall for?"I have heard all the EU conspiracy guff from the dribbling minds of brexiters.Let me guess is it a German 4th reich... | |||
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"People will not revolt they will not look up long enough from their screens to notice what is happening - George Orwell . Fortunately that wasn’t all of us
Unsurprisingly, Orwell never said that.
It does not appear in any if his works, and especially not in 1984, which most people claim it does.
It's the kind of email forward level bullshit that people regurgitate because they think it makes then clever.
True. And I don’t think most people claim it does at all. But what it does foretell is the feaomgering and manipulation of the masses through telescreens. Leaving the EU will be a disaster and lead to WW3 anyone?
Wait, so how does a made up quote foretell anything?
Someone, literally, made it up recently enough, attached the name of a famous author to it in order to lend it authenticity and despite knowing all that you're still just nodding your head and going "yup, foretells things, this does".
It's a stupid notion, and one that is easily disproven. If this generation was so consumed by the devil that is mobile phones, to the point of political and social apathy, we should expect changes to go unopposed, and the status quo to remain unchallenged.
Yet, we have strong movements in the US against various the various racist policies of the Whitehouse, closer to home, Ireland should never have repealed the eighth amendment, and as fucking stupid as it is, a world where people are numbed by mobile phones couldn't have given us brexit.
It's the kind of dumb platitude that only makes sense if you don't think about it.
That’s why I said fortunately it wasn’t all of us "It was literally none of us. Because the idea behind the quote you're using as a pretext to jerk off to your poor decision making is facile nonsense. | |||
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"People will not revolt they will not look up long enough from their screens to notice what is happening - George Orwell . Fortunately that wasn’t all of us
Of course fascism and extremism comes about gradually,it's a slow route .They wouldn't persuade the masses otherwise.
Exactly. And you fell for it
Sorry sunshine it's the nefarious agendas of people like you I never fall for.I bet your school report always read " Must try harder"
What is the agenda of the EU that you didn’t fall for?
I have heard all the EU conspiracy guff from the dribbling minds of brexiters.Let me guess is it a German 4th reich... "You might have heard all kinds of things. Have you ever actually found anything out for yourself? | |||
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"Good lord, what drivel. What is? This hand wringing about mobile phones being the devil and making it so young people are "unable to think". All it is is old people yelling at clouds about kids these days and their strange ways. Putting aside how the discussion developed after the above post, I live in London and, unfortunately, mobile phones, socia media, etc play a huge role and, in most cases, are directly linked with the rise in stabbings and murders amongst young people/teenagers especially. A row on facebook/whatsapp, quickly escalates to "meet up to sort it out in person" and/or grudges/animosity that lead to tit for tat violence between various groups and/or individuals. As I'm old enough to have been a teenager before mobile phones were a thing, Ibknow this kind of stuff was happening just fine without smartphones. Smartphones didn't create this behaviour. " I wasn't saying/implying that they created this behaviour. My point was that they facilitate/exacerbate it. | |||
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"Good lord, what drivel. What is? This hand wringing about mobile phones being the devil and making it so young people are "unable to think". All it is is old people yelling at clouds about kids these days and their strange ways. Putting aside how the discussion developed after the above post, I live in London and, unfortunately, mobile phones, socia media, etc play a huge role and, in most cases, are directly linked with the rise in stabbings and murders amongst young people/teenagers especially. A row on facebook/whatsapp, quickly escalates to "meet up to sort it out in person" and/or grudges/animosity that lead to tit for tat violence between various groups and/or individuals. As I'm old enough to have been a teenager before mobile phones were a thing, Ibknow this kind of stuff was happening just fine without smartphones. Smartphones didn't create this behaviour. I wasn't saying/implying that they created this behaviour. My point was that they facilitate/exacerbate it. " Facilitate, sure. But so does any method of communication, smartphones don't really have any unique claim here. Exacerbate? Not so sure. The same cycle of minor slight escalating into fights happens just as quick, if not quicker in schools before phones. All you really need is an overabundance of hormones, a lot of people in close proximity, and a good old fashioned dose of toxic masculinity, and viola! Teenagers kicking the shit out of each other. | |||
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"Good lord, what drivel. What is? This hand wringing about mobile phones being the devil and making it so young people are "unable to think". All it is is old people yelling at clouds about kids these days and their strange ways." That's a sweeping statement so I disagree to some extent. It's not about old vs young, nor about good vs bad. It's more about having the wisdom to recognise manipulation, which often, but not necessarily, comes with age | |||
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"Good lord, what drivel. What is? This hand wringing about mobile phones being the devil and making it so young people are "unable to think". All it is is old people yelling at clouds about kids these days and their strange ways. That's a sweeping statement so I disagree to some extent. It's not about old vs young, nor about good vs bad. It's more about having the wisdom to recognise manipulation, which often, but not necessarily, comes with age " I'm not sure how you can categorise a claim that smart phones are making it so that young people are "unable to think" as recognising manipulation. It is, more accurately, barely thought through grousing based on nothing more than the endless cycle of each generation whining about the one that comes after it. | |||
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"I didn't make any comments with regard to young people. What I don't agree with is 'old people yelling at clouds' etc. " "I didn't make any comments with regard to young people. What I don't agree with is 'old people yelling at clouds' etc. " Seeing as that was directly in relation to another user claiming that mobile phones were making young people unable to think, you're not really on the same page here. But to take your complaint about technology as you're making it, there is nothing in your point of view that has merit after all targeted media is nothing new. And honestly, old people aren't "savvy" or anything, just generic level curmudgeonly, which seems like they're onto something when their inability to deal with new things lines up with your own misgivings. | |||
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"I didn't make any comments with regard to young people. What I don't agree with is 'old people yelling at clouds' etc. The methods used are aimed at us all, regardless of age, although I suspect the young are more susceptible and are much more targeted. Recognising that targeting and processing and dealing with it is paramount and if it takes a more savvy older person to say so, so be it." I’m in a flippant mood ... but pension scams and the like say people don’t get savvier as they get older. | |||
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"Young un's still beleave that free offers are real  "get this free Parker pen just for calling .... | |||
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"Young un's still beleave that free offers are real get this free Parker pen just for calling ...."Yes and then they have you’re number which they will sell on to another company or 3 | |||
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