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"Sweden have passed a new law that comes into force today, the new law was inspired by the #Metoo campaign, there is even an idea that a written permission contract before having sex is needed, to make sure both persons wants it, whats your view on it? I think it is good, but having to sign for it before doing it, is taking it a bit too far." Dscusting it is anti human in my view | |||
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"Because the OP is lazy: Under the new law, sexual participants need to agree in words or clearly demonstrate they want to engage in sexual activity, with passivity not considered a sign of voluntary participation. Sex will be considered a criminal act if it was not entered into voluntarily by both partners, whether or not violence or threats were used. Nothing about this requires the use of a written contract, so why bother bringing it up?" I will have to examine properly,I only read the OP and exepted it | |||
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"Because the OP is lazy: Under the new law, sexual participants need to agree in words or clearly demonstrate they want to engage in sexual activity, with passivity not considered a sign of voluntary participation. Sex will be considered a criminal act if it was not entered into voluntarily by both partners, whether or not violence or threats were used. Nothing about this requires the use of a written contract, so why bother bringing it up?" How far off UK law is this ? | |||
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"Because the OP is lazy: Under the new law, sexual participants need to agree in words or clearly demonstrate they want to engage in sexual activity, with passivity not considered a sign of voluntary participation. Sex will be considered a criminal act if it was not entered into voluntarily by both partners, whether or not violence or threats were used. Nothing about this requires the use of a written contract, so why bother bringing it up?" It have been in the swedish news about it, only suggestions so far by the #metoo campaign. | |||
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"Because the OP is lazy: Under the new law, sexual participants need to agree in words or clearly demonstrate they want to engage in sexual activity, with passivity not considered a sign of voluntary participation. Sex will be considered a criminal act if it was not entered into voluntarily by both partners, whether or not violence or threats were used. Nothing about this requires the use of a written contract, so why bother bringing it up?It have been in the swedish news about it, only suggestions so far by the #metoo campaign. " I'm sure there's always some mouth breathers who'd be only delighted to try and peddle a slightly rebranded "feminists gone maaaaaaad" story on the back of news like this. We probably shouldn't dignify their tripe by taking it seriously | |||
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" Under the new law, sexual participants need to agree in words or clearly demonstrate they want to engage in sexual activity, with passivity not considered a sign of voluntary participation. Sex will be considered a criminal act if it was not entered into voluntarily by both partners, whether or not violence or threats were used. Nothing about this requires the use of a written contract, so why bother bringing it up?It have been in the swedish news about it, only suggestions so far by the #metoo campaign. I'm sure there's always some mouth breathers who'd be only delighted to try and peddle a slightly rebranded "feminists gone maaaaaaad" story on the back of news like this. We probably shouldn't dignify their tripe by taking it seriously" That is right and it is feminism that govern sweden as well. | |||
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"I read something about this. How is it going to work out in practice?" How many times have you had sex when you weren't sure the other person wanted to have sex with you?  | |||
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"Isn't this what the court case was about involving that footballer, Jed someone? That consent cannot be assumed, it must be evidenced? " I don't believe anything has to be evidence. | |||
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"What I meant was you must be able to evidence that sex was consensual, by pointing to some affirmative action or utterance by the other party that would lead a reasonable person to conclude they were consenting to have sex. " Like them kissing you back or squeezing you or removing items of clothing, grinding against you etc. Would you struggle to do that with your sexual encounters? | |||
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"I read something about this. How is it going to work out in practice?" Yes. I wonder the same, one idea they have is that you have to download a consent contract, to tick in what activities you will be doing, it is so that you are covered as they cant come after and say they didnt didnt agree doin that, the best way is to record it, which is a better evidence. | |||
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"I read something about this. How is it going to work out in practice?Yes. I wonder the same, one idea they have is that you have to download a consent contract, to tick in what activities you will be doing, it is so that you are covered as they cant come after and say they didnt didnt agree doin that, the best way is to record it, which is a better evidence." How many times have you had sex where you had no signs of consent from the other person? | |||
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" Under the new law, sexual participants need to agree in words or clearly demonstrate they want to engage in sexual activity, with passivity not considered a sign of voluntary participation. Sex will be considered a criminal act if it was not entered into voluntarily by both partners, whether or not violence or threats were used. Nothing about this requires the use of a written contract, so why bother bringing it up?It have been in the swedish news about it, only suggestions so far by the #metoo campaign. I'm sure there's always some mouth breathers who'd be only delighted to try and peddle a slightly rebranded "feminists gone maaaaaaad" story on the back of news like this. We probably shouldn't dignify their tripe by taking it seriouslyThat is right and it is feminism that govern sweden as well." I don't think you quite got my meaning there. Regardless, this only seems to be a problem for people who seem baffled by the idea of enthusiastic consent. Which is worrying. | |||
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" Under the new law, sexual participants need to agree in words or clearly demonstrate they want to engage in sexual activity, with passivity not considered a sign of voluntary participation. Sex will be considered a criminal act if it was not entered into voluntarily by both partners, whether or not violence or threats were used. Nothing about this requires the use of a written contract, so why bother bringing it up?It have been in the swedish news about it, only suggestions so far by the #metoo campaign. I'm sure there's always some mouth breathers who'd be only delighted to try and peddle a slightly rebranded "feminists gone maaaaaaad" story on the back of news like this. We probably shouldn't dignify their tripe by taking it seriouslyThat is right and it is feminism that govern sweden as well. I don't think you quite got my meaning there. Regardless, this only seems to be a problem for people who seem baffled by the idea of enthusiastic consent. Which is worrying. " I've asked 3 people on this thread if they would be affected by this law, all have refused to answer. | |||
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"What I meant was you must be able to evidence that sex was consensual, by pointing to some affirmative action or utterance by the other party that would lead a reasonable person to conclude they were consenting to have sex. Like them kissing you back or squeezing you or removing items of clothing, grinding against you etc. Would you struggle to do that with your sexual encounters?" I don't think any reasonable person would conclude that kissing someone, or any other flirting, was consent for sexual intercourse. When I ask a man if I can get on top of his cock, or ask him to take me from behind, that seems a pretty clear signal to consent for penetrative sex. I can think of occasions, too, when I have been prepared to have sex with someone and then changed my mind after meeting up with them, usually when they show a desire to have unprotected sex. | |||
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"What I meant was you must be able to evidence that sex was consensual, by pointing to some affirmative action or utterance by the other party that would lead a reasonable person to conclude they were consenting to have sex. Like them kissing you back or squeezing you or removing items of clothing, grinding against you etc. Would you struggle to do that with your sexual encounters? I don't think any reasonable person would conclude that kissing someone, or any other flirting, was consent for sexual intercourse. When I ask a man if I can get on top of his cock, or ask him to take me from behind, that seems a pretty clear signal to consent for penetrative sex. I can think of occasions, too, when I have been prepared to have sex with someone and then changed my mind after meeting up with them, usually when they show a desire to have unprotected sex. " If someone kisses me back, is holding me against their body, taking their/ny clothes off and not telling me to stop, not pushing me away and are actively involved in the sex act, then I have no reason to believe that they are not consenting, and so have nothing to fear from this law. | |||
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"I read something about this. How is it going to work out in practice?Yes. I wonder the same, one idea they have is that you have to download a consent contract, to tick in what activities you will be doing, it is so that you are covered as they cant come after and say they didnt didnt agree doin that, the best way is to record it, which is a better evidence. How many times have you had sex where you had no signs of consent from the other person? " We both agreed doing it, so that is consent, you? | |||
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" Under the new law, sexual participants need to agree in words or clearly demonstrate they want to engage in sexual activity, with passivity not considered a sign of voluntary participation. Sex will be considered a criminal act if it was not entered into voluntarily by both partners, whether or not violence or threats were used. Nothing about this requires the use of a written contract, so why bother bringing it up?It have been in the swedish news about it, only suggestions so far by the #metoo campaign. I'm sure there's always some mouth breathers who'd be only delighted to try and peddle a slightly rebranded "feminists gone maaaaaaad" story on the back of news like this. We probably shouldn't dignify their tripe by taking it seriouslyThat is right and it is feminism that govern sweden as well. I don't think you quite got my meaning there. Regardless, this only seems to be a problem for people who seem baffled by the idea of enthusiastic consent. Which is worrying. I've asked 3 people on this thread if they would be affected by this law, all have refused to answer. " It wouldnt affect me as I dont live in sweden, you? | |||
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"I read something about this. How is it going to work out in practice?Yes. I wonder the same, one idea they have is that you have to download a consent contract, to tick in what activities you will be doing, it is so that you are covered as they cant come after and say they didnt didnt agree doin that, the best way is to record it, which is a better evidence. How many times have you had sex where you had no signs of consent from the other person? We both agreed doing it, so that is consent, you?" I've never had non consensual sex, if you haven't either, then you have nothing to worry about from this law, or any similar laws. | |||
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"I read something about this. How is it going to work out in practice?Yes. I wonder the same, one idea they have is that you have to download a consent contract, to tick in what activities you will be doing, it is so that you are covered as they cant come after and say they didnt didnt agree doin that, the best way is to record it, which is a better evidence. How many times have you had sex where you had no signs of consent from the other person? We both agreed doing it, so that is consent, you? I've never had non consensual sex, if you haven't either, then you have nothing to worry about from this law, or any similar laws. " I know. I just bring the news from sweden. | |||
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"I suppose it may clarify in law what is meant by consent but I don't see how it will prevent arguments in court regarding whether an offence has ocurred or not - it is usually one person's word against another persons with no other witnesses present." All sex in Sweden will now have a court appointed official witness apparently. | |||
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" Under the new law, sexual participants need to agree in words or clearly demonstrate they want to engage in sexual activity, with passivity not considered a sign of voluntary participation. Sex will be considered a criminal act if it was not entered into voluntarily by both partners, whether or not violence or threats were used. Nothing about this requires the use of a written contract, so why bother bringing it up?It have been in the swedish news about it, only suggestions so far by the #metoo campaign. I'm sure there's always some mouth breathers who'd be only delighted to try and peddle a slightly rebranded "feminists gone maaaaaaad" story on the back of news like this. We probably shouldn't dignify their tripe by taking it seriouslyThat is right and it is feminism that govern sweden as well. I don't think you quite got my meaning there. Regardless, this only seems to be a problem for people who seem baffled by the idea of enthusiastic consent. Which is worrying. I've asked 3 people on this thread if they would be affected by this law, all have refused to answer. " No you haven't asked that at all. Like nearly all your questions it was well loaded. You asked: "How many times have you had sex where you had no signs of consent from the other person?" And: "How many times have you had sex when you weren't sure the other person wanted to have sex with you?" Neither of those questions asks how the law may or may not affect someone. I can answer both of those with one word. NEVER. However that doesn't mean the new law wouldn't affect me or anyone else. Imagine in court. 'Well M'Lud the victim says that when she looked the accused in the eye, winked, and mimed a blow job she really meant that she wanted to eat a banana' These kind of laws are nothing more than a charter for "second thoughts next morning" cases of which there are far too many already. Anyway I've no time to say any more as we are off to the foam party later and I have to get all our contracts in order. | |||
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" Like them kissing you back or squeezing you or removing items of clothing, grinding against you etc. Would you struggle to do that with your sexual encounters?" Kissing squeezing and grinding can all occur as flirting in a night club but doesnt mean they want to have sex with you. Or maybe they are too d*unk to consent. Or maybe i just miss the signs and i am too cautious. | |||
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" I can answer both of those with one word. NEVER. However that doesn't mean the new law wouldn't affect me or anyone else. " Actually, it would mean the absolute opposite of that. But I understand that there's more mileage in feigning outrage about contracts - which is a stupid attempt to muddy the waters and has nothing to do with this law - than wondering why despite claiming to be all about consensual sex, this gets your hackles up. | |||
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" Like them kissing you back or squeezing you or removing items of clothing, grinding against you etc. Would you struggle to do that with your sexual encounters? Kissing squeezing and grinding can all occur as flirting in a night club but doesnt mean they want to have sex with you. Or maybe they are too d*unk to consent. Or maybe i just miss the signs and i am too cautious." Unless you are taking about fucking them there on the dance floor, we are talking about different things. I'm not talking about actions hours before, I'm talking about immediately proceeding the sex act. So if they are kissing you and grinding on the dance floor, then also in the taxi, then also in your house, into your bedroom, still kissing you, squeezing you, taking your clothes off, taking their clothes off, and actively engaging in the sex act, that can all happen and you can be certain they are consenting, without a word ever being said. | |||
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The Swedish approach to sex workers bothers me, as it's seen as an ideal model for other countries.  | |||
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"I read something about this. How is it going to work out in practice?Yes. I wonder the same, one idea they have is that you have to download a consent contract, to tick in what activities you will be doing, it is so that you are covered as they cant come after and say they didnt didnt agree doin that, the best way is to record it, which is a better evidence." What if they are having an affair 
What if your phone is dead?
Who controls the data?
Totalitarian nonsense from the hard left to stamp out the time honoured practice of common sense. | |||
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" Like them kissing you back or squeezing you or removing items of clothing, grinding against you etc. Would you struggle to do that with your sexual encounters? Kissing squeezing and grinding can all occur as flirting in a night club but doesnt mean they want to have sex with you. Or maybe they are too d*unk to consent. Or maybe i just miss the signs and i am too cautious. Unless you are taking about fucking them there on the dance floor, we are talking about different things. I'm not talking about actions hours before, I'm talking about immediately proceeding the sex act. So if they are kissing you and grinding on the dance floor, then also in the taxi, then also in your house, into your bedroom, still kissing you, squeezing you, taking your clothes off, taking their clothes off, and actively engaging in the sex act, that can all happen and you can be certain they are consenting, without a word ever being said. " Agreed but where is the evidence in the court of law if you break her little heart and she takes a revenge case against you? These things do happen. | |||
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"I read something about this. How is it going to work out in practice?Yes. I wonder the same, one idea they have is that you have to download a consent contract, to tick in what activities you will be doing, it is so that you are covered as they cant come after and say they didnt didnt agree doin that, the best way is to record it, which is a better evidence. What if they are having an affair
What if your phone is dead?
Who controls the data?
Totalitarian nonsense from the hard left to stamp out the time honoured practice of common sense. "Top marks for not reading the thread, but offering up your ideas anyway. | |||
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"I read something about this. How is it going to work out in practice?Yes. I wonder the same, one idea they have is that you have to download a consent contract, to tick in what activities you will be doing, it is so that you are covered as they cant come after and say they didnt didnt agree doin that, the best way is to record it, which is a better evidence. What if they are having an affair
What if your phone is dead?
Who controls the data?
Totalitarian nonsense from the hard left to stamp out the time honoured practice of common sense.
Top marks for not reading the thread, but offering up your ideas anyway."Top marks for the ever present lack of counter argument. | |||
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"I read something about this. How is it going to work out in practice?Yes. I wonder the same, one idea they have is that you have to download a consent contract, to tick in what activities you will be doing, it is so that you are covered as they cant come after and say they didnt didnt agree doin that, the best way is to record it, which is a better evidence. What if they are having an affair
What if your phone is dead?
Who controls the data?
Totalitarian nonsense from the hard left to stamp out the time honoured practice of common sense.
Top marks for not reading the thread, but offering up your ideas anyway.
Top marks for the ever present lack of counter argument. "Third post. What you're arguing against isn't real. | |||
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"I read something about this. How is it going to work out in practice? How many times have you had sex when you weren't sure the other person wanted to have sex with you? "Seriously.....hand on heart....never! | |||
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"I read something about this. How is it going to work out in practice?Yes. I wonder the same, one idea they have is that you have to download a consent contract, to tick in what activities you will be doing, it is so that you are covered as they cant come after and say they didnt didnt agree doin that, the best way is to record it, which is a better evidence. What if they are having an affair
What if your phone is dead?
Who controls the data?
Totalitarian nonsense from the hard left to stamp out the time honoured practice of common sense.
Top marks for not reading the thread, but offering up your ideas anyway.
Top marks for the ever present lack of counter argument.
Third post.
What you're arguing against isn't real."Yeah but you ignored my part about evidence in a court of law. So either you go the app route or you are back to he said/she said where one is lying and one is telling the truth. | |||
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"I read something about this. How is it going to work out in practice?Yes. I wonder the same, one idea they have is that you have to download a consent contract, to tick in what activities you will be doing, it is so that you are covered as they cant come after and say they didnt didnt agree doin that, the best way is to record it, which is a better evidence. What if they are having an affair
What if your phone is dead?
Who controls the data?
Totalitarian nonsense from the hard left to stamp out the time honoured practice of common sense.
Top marks for not reading the thread, but offering up your ideas anyway.
Top marks for the ever present lack of counter argument.
Third post.
What you're arguing against isn't real.
Yeah but you ignored my part about evidence in a court of law.
So either you go the app route or you are back to he said/she said where one is lying and one is telling the truth. "How is this any difference to many aspects of law. I say you stole £500 cash from my wallet, I bet you are gonna say that you didn't. | |||
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"I read something about this. How is it going to work out in practice?Yes. I wonder the same, one idea they have is that you have to download a consent contract, to tick in what activities you will be doing, it is so that you are covered as they cant come after and say they didnt didnt agree doin that, the best way is to record it, which is a better evidence. What if they are having an affair
What if your phone is dead?
Who controls the data?
Totalitarian nonsense from the hard left to stamp out the time honoured practice of common sense.
Top marks for not reading the thread, but offering up your ideas anyway.
Top marks for the ever present lack of counter argument.
Third post.
What you're arguing against isn't real.
Yeah but you ignored my part about evidence in a court of law.
So either you go the app route or you are back to he said/she said where one is lying and one is telling the truth. "Yes. Welcome to the legal system. | |||
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"Thanks for making the law more of an ass. " Seeing as nothing has changed, maybe less rending of garments is called for? | |||
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