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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey? "Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left? | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?"Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"? | |||
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"Who exactly have they been relaxed for? " Right now for tier 2 visas from non-EU people. | |||
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"Who exactly have they been relaxed for? Right now for tier 2 visas from non-EU people." And the two tiers separate people on what criteria? | |||
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"Who exactly have they been relaxed for? Right now for tier 2 visas from non-EU people. And the two tiers separate people on what criteria?" Tier 1 is for super rich people, like Abramovich, Tier 2 is for skilled workers. | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?"You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do? | |||
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"Who exactly have they been relaxed for? Right now for tier 2 visas from non-EU people. And the two tiers separate people on what criteria? Tier 1 is for super rich people, like Abramovich, Tier 2 is for skilled workers." That sounds good to me  | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey? "Exactly ?? nothing wrong with that ! | |||
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"Hurrah, an outbreak of pragmatic governance. The NHS is desperate for doctors. Had non-EU docs ready to join, their visa applications into Government. Government said No. Fookin’ idiots. Rudd has gone, Javid rules and May has bowed to common sense. It defies belief they refused in the first place." A cynic might think that someone's been playing the long game.  | |||
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"Aye, playing politics with your health and mine. Scumbags." Well, I'm of the opinion that all mps and governments worldwide hold us all in contempt. But they know what's best for us eh? | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?"The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other. Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work. Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do, instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers. | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do, instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
"We may not want to do them, but with millions out of work, then we should be doing them. Whilst people sit in poverty on benefits (if they actually get any!) it makes no sense to decrease their chances of finding work. I think shortly, our government, whoever it be will be telling people that unless they take these jobs, which they have now conveniently brought up to minimum wage (officially) will not receive any benefits at all. Its coming and they've been working towards it for a long time. | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do, instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
"Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy? | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do, instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?"Maybe you want our economy to be more like Cuba, where taxi drivers get more than doctors? | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do, instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Maybe you want our economy to be more like Cuba, where taxi drivers get more than doctors? "No. I want a country where a bloke who has just been made redundant and walks into a job centre isn’t told that the only available job is shovelling shit for 8 hours a day for £7.50 an hour and if you don’t take it there are ten Italians (insert any nationality) in the queue behind you who will take it because they are living ten to a room and have low overheads. It disgusts me | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do, instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Maybe you want our economy to be more like Cuba, where taxi drivers get more than doctors?
No. I want a country where a bloke who has just been made redundant and walks into a job centre isn’t told that the only available job is shovelling shit for 8 hours a day for £7.50 an hour and if you don’t take it there are ten Italians (insert any nationality) in the queue behind you who will take it because they are living ten to a room and have low overheads. It disgusts me"And yet I doubt you are willing to pay more for goods and services, or vote for the party that introduced the minimum wage. | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do, instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Maybe you want our economy to be more like Cuba, where taxi drivers get more than doctors?
No. I want a country where a bloke who has just been made redundant and walks into a job centre isn’t told that the only available job is shovelling shit for 8 hours a day for £7.50 an hour and if you don’t take it there are ten Italians (insert any nationality) in the queue behind you who will take it because they are living ten to a room and have low overheads. It disgusts me
And yet I doubt you are willing to pay more for goods and services, or vote for the party that introduced the minimum wage. "Then you doubt wrong | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do, instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Maybe you want our economy to be more like Cuba, where taxi drivers get more than doctors?
No. I want a country where a bloke who has just been made redundant and walks into a job centre isn’t told that the only available job is shovelling shit for 8 hours a day for £7.50 an hour and if you don’t take it there are ten Italians (insert any nationality) in the queue behind you who will take it because they are living ten to a room and have low overheads. It disgusts me
And yet I doubt you are willing to pay more for goods and services, or vote for the party that introduced the minimum wage.
Then you doubt wrong "Yeah? Big Labour voter? | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do, instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Maybe you want our economy to be more like Cuba, where taxi drivers get more than doctors?
No. I want a country where a bloke who has just been made redundant and walks into a job centre isn’t told that the only available job is shovelling shit for 8 hours a day for £7.50 an hour and if you don’t take it there are ten Italians (insert any nationality) in the queue behind you who will take it because they are living ten to a room and have low overheads. It disgusts me
And yet I doubt you are willing to pay more for goods and services, or vote for the party that introduced the minimum wage.
Then you doubt wrong
Yeah? Big Labour voter? "Nope never. But your ideas on immigration just perpetuates the race to the bottom | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do, instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Maybe you want our economy to be more like Cuba, where taxi drivers get more than doctors?
No. I want a country where a bloke who has just been made redundant and walks into a job centre isn’t told that the only available job is shovelling shit for 8 hours a day for £7.50 an hour and if you don’t take it there are ten Italians (insert any nationality) in the queue behind you who will take it because they are living ten to a room and have low overheads. It disgusts me
And yet I doubt you are willing to pay more for goods and services, or vote for the party that introduced the minimum wage.
Then you doubt wrong
Yeah? Big Labour voter?
Nope never. But your ideas on immigration just perpetuates the race to the bottom "Right, so you never voted for a minimum wage then. Really shows how much you care about it then. | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do, instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Maybe you want our economy to be more like Cuba, where taxi drivers get more than doctors?
No. I want a country where a bloke who has just been made redundant and walks into a job centre isn’t told that the only available job is shovelling shit for 8 hours a day for £7.50 an hour and if you don’t take it there are ten Italians (insert any nationality) in the queue behind you who will take it because they are living ten to a room and have low overheads. It disgusts me
And yet I doubt you are willing to pay more for goods and services, or vote for the party that introduced the minimum wage.
Then you doubt wrong
Yeah? Big Labour voter?
Nope never. But your ideas on immigration just perpetuates the race to the bottom
Right, so you never voted for a minimum wage then. Really shows how much you care about it then. "That is because the minimum wage is a political con. Before it’s introduction wages kept pace with productivity and company profits, now the gap is huge and ever widening. But as an EU supporter I wouldn’t expect you to see the bigger picture | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do, instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Maybe you want our economy to be more like Cuba, where taxi drivers get more than doctors?
No. I want a country where a bloke who has just been made redundant and walks into a job centre isn’t told that the only available job is shovelling shit for 8 hours a day for £7.50 an hour and if you don’t take it there are ten Italians (insert any nationality) in the queue behind you who will take it because they are living ten to a room and have low overheads. It disgusts me
And yet I doubt you are willing to pay more for goods and services, or vote for the party that introduced the minimum wage.
Then you doubt wrong
Yeah? Big Labour voter?
Nope never. But your ideas on immigration just perpetuates the race to the bottom
Right, so you never voted for a minimum wage then. Really shows how much you care about it then.
That is because the minimum wage is a political con. Before it’s introduction wages kept pace with productivity and company profits, now the gap is huge and ever widening. But as an EU supporter I wouldn’t expect you to see the bigger picture "You seem to be suggesting that Remainers can't see the big picture? You mean people like Stephen Hawking? Major, Blair, Brown and Cameron? MI5, MI6 and GCHQ? NATO? Yeah, it's obvious that people who support the EU can't see the bigger picture! Hahaha  | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do, instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Maybe you want our economy to be more like Cuba, where taxi drivers get more than doctors?
No. I want a country where a bloke who has just been made redundant and walks into a job centre isn’t told that the only available job is shovelling shit for 8 hours a day for £7.50 an hour and if you don’t take it there are ten Italians (insert any nationality) in the queue behind you who will take it because they are living ten to a room and have low overheads. It disgusts me
And yet I doubt you are willing to pay more for goods and services, or vote for the party that introduced the minimum wage.
Then you doubt wrong
Yeah? Big Labour voter?
Nope never. But your ideas on immigration just perpetuates the race to the bottom
Right, so you never voted for a minimum wage then. Really shows how much you care about it then.
That is because the minimum wage is a political con. Before it’s introduction wages kept pace with productivity and company profits, now the gap is huge and ever widening. But as an EU supporter I wouldn’t expect you to see the bigger picture
You seem to be suggesting that Remainers can't see the big picture? You mean people like Stephen Hawking? Major, Blair, Brown and Cameron? MI5, MI6 and GCHQ? NATO? Yeah, it's obvious that people who support the EU can't see the bigger picture! Hahaha "Lol, what a line up. So am I wrong? Tell me that we are earning more now than we were 15-20 years ago? | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do, instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Maybe you want our economy to be more like Cuba, where taxi drivers get more than doctors?
No. I want a country where a bloke who has just been made redundant and walks into a job centre isn’t told that the only available job is shovelling shit for 8 hours a day for £7.50 an hour and if you don’t take it there are ten Italians (insert any nationality) in the queue behind you who will take it because they are living ten to a room and have low overheads. It disgusts me
And yet I doubt you are willing to pay more for goods and services, or vote for the party that introduced the minimum wage.
Then you doubt wrong
Yeah? Big Labour voter?
Nope never. But your ideas on immigration just perpetuates the race to the bottom
Right, so you never voted for a minimum wage then. Really shows how much you care about it then.
That is because the minimum wage is a political con. Before it’s introduction wages kept pace with productivity and company profits, now the gap is huge and ever widening. But as an EU supporter I wouldn’t expect you to see the bigger picture
You seem to be suggesting that Remainers can't see the big picture? You mean people like Stephen Hawking? Major, Blair, Brown and Cameron? MI5, MI6 and GCHQ? NATO? Yeah, it's obvious that people who support the EU can't see the bigger picture! Hahaha
Lol, what a line up.
So am I wrong? Tell me that we are earning more now than we were 15-20 years ago?"Gone on then, attack the line up. | |||
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"But immigration will still be less than 100,000. Right OP? " I take it that was a rhetorical question, right? (just making sure ) | |||
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"But immigration will still be less than 100,000. Right OP? I take it that was a rhetorical question, right? (just making sure )"I mean, it's in the manifesto right, so, they're gonna stick to it right? And fox hunting, that's coming back too, right????  | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do, instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?"Precisely! Who sets and/or allows these rates?
Had it been the EU, many of you would be screaming and shouting about oppression, imposed laws etc. Yet, you ignore the fact that it's *our* government's(s') doing and instead blame the immigrants for "taking our jobs".
The countries "they"'re coming from could (possibly) blame the "crap EU monetary policy". What's *our* excuse?  | |||
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"But immigration will still be less than 100,000. Right OP? I take it that was a rhetorical question, right? (just making sure )
I mean, it's in the manifesto right, so, they're gonna stick to it right? And fox hunting, that's coming back too, right???? "I'm not 100% sure but I think it was S. Javid at the Andrew Marr show (someone will correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure) who said that the figure of tens of thousands was not realistic because it had never been met and that it was no longer the "target". Happy to be corrected though, as my recollection is quite vague on the specifics. | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do, instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Precisely!
Who sets and/or allows these rates?
Had it been the EU, many of you would be screaming and shouting about oppression, imposed laws etc. Yet, you ignore the fact that it's *our* government's(s') doing and instead blame the immigrants for "taking our jobs".
The countries "they"'re coming from could (possibly) blame the "crap EU monetary policy". What's *our* excuse? "It’s the EU that encourages these rates through the free movement of cheap labour. And I am not blaming the immigrants I am trying to protect them! | |||
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"Hurrah, an outbreak of pragmatic governance. The NHS is desperate for doctors. Had non-EU docs ready to join, their visa applications into Government. Government said No. Fookin’ idiots. Rudd has gone, Javid rules and May has bowed to common sense. It defies belief they refused in the first place." Sarah gets it dead right gain | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do, instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Maybe you want our economy to be more like Cuba, where taxi drivers get more than doctors?
No. I want a country where a bloke who has just been made redundant and walks into a job centre isn’t told that the only available job is shovelling shit for 8 hours a day for £7.50 an hour and if you don’t take it there are ten Italians (insert any nationality) in the queue behind you who will take it because they are living ten to a room and have low overheads. It disgusts me
And yet I doubt you are willing to pay more for goods and services, or vote for the party that introduced the minimum wage.
Then you doubt wrong
Yeah? Big Labour voter?
Nope never. But your ideas on immigration just perpetuates the race to the bottom
Right, so you never voted for a minimum wage then. Really shows how much you care about it then.
That is because the minimum wage is a political con. Before it’s introduction wages kept pace with productivity and company profits, now the gap is huge and ever widening. But as an EU supporter I wouldn’t expect you to see the bigger picture
You seem to be suggesting that Remainers can't see the big picture? You mean people like Stephen Hawking? Major, Blair, Brown and Cameron? MI5, MI6 and GCHQ? NATO? Yeah, it's obvious that people who support the EU can't see the bigger picture! Hahaha "Was pointed out to you the other day on another thread, many of the ex leaders of the organisations you like to list, such as MI6, The Bank of England, British Chambers of Commerce and the CBI backed and supported Brexit. | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do, instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Maybe you want our economy to be more like Cuba, where taxi drivers get more than doctors?
No. I want a country where a bloke who has just been made redundant and walks into a job centre isn’t told that the only available job is shovelling shit for 8 hours a day for £7.50 an hour and if you don’t take it there are ten Italians (insert any nationality) in the queue behind you who will take it because they are living ten to a room and have low overheads. It disgusts me
And yet I doubt you are willing to pay more for goods and services, or vote for the party that introduced the minimum wage. "That would be the Labour party that had 6 front bench resignations yesterday then. | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do, instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?"Again this is an issue we could have solved in the EU. Stronger administration of company earnings, employment checks for companies, stronger regulation against contracts and hours which result in eork not being wprth it for people. | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do, instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Precisely!
Who sets and/or allows these rates?
Had it been the EU, many of you would be screaming and shouting about oppression, imposed laws etc. Yet, you ignore the fact that it's *our* government's(s') doing and instead blame the immigrants for "taking our jobs".
The countries "they"'re coming from could (possibly) blame the "crap EU monetary policy". What's *our* excuse?
It’s the EU that encourages these rates through the free movement of cheap labour. And I am not blaming the immigrants I am trying to protect them!"I can see that side of it but lets be blunt. The EU doesnt encourage cheap labour, it happens as we A), dont invest enough training in our own population to keep them competitive at low and mid skilled proffessions. B), we dont impose regulations on abusive hours as strongly as we should. C), we've prolonged the living wage debate for too long. D), many people are not exposed to the true scale to which tech is taking jobs, tightening the roles for labour further. Brexit wont solve this. Only a national debate where people czn collate all their issues together so we can work out which issues interlink will | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do, instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Maybe you want our economy to be more like Cuba, where taxi drivers get more than doctors?
No. I want a country where a bloke who has just been made redundant and walks into a job centre isn’t told that the only available job is shovelling shit for 8 hours a day for £7.50 an hour and if you don’t take it there are ten Italians (insert any nationality) in the queue behind you who will take it because they are living ten to a room and have low overheads. It disgusts me
And yet I doubt you are willing to pay more for goods and services, or vote for the party that introduced the minimum wage.
Then you doubt wrong
Yeah? Big Labour voter?
Nope never. But your ideas on immigration just perpetuates the race to the bottom
Right, so you never voted for a minimum wage then. Really shows how much you care about it then.
That is because the minimum wage is a political con. Before it’s introduction wages kept pace with productivity and company profits, now the gap is huge and ever widening. But as an EU supporter I wouldn’t expect you to see the bigger picture
You seem to be suggesting that Remainers can't see the big picture? You mean people like Stephen Hawking? Major, Blair, Brown and Cameron? MI5, MI6 and GCHQ? NATO? Yeah, it's obvious that people who support the EU can't see the bigger picture! Hahaha
Was pointed out to you the other day on another thread, many of the ex leaders of the organisations you like to list, such as MI6, The Bank of England, British Chambers of Commerce and the CBI backed and supported Brexit. "What does that have to do with supporters of the EU not being able to see the big picture? Hmmm? No, fuck all. That's what I thought. As pointed out to you before the "We are experts but we don't need experts" that you try to trot out are like the "experts" who don't believe in climate change. Now we all know that you pretend not to care that one of the biggest deciding factors of how people voted was that educated people chose to remain and non-educated people chose to leave, and you have got a massive chip on your shoulder about it, so if your so upset about it, why don't you go out and do something about it. You can study at any age. It's not too late. | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do, instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Maybe you want our economy to be more like Cuba, where taxi drivers get more than doctors?
No. I want a country where a bloke who has just been made redundant and walks into a job centre isn’t told that the only available job is shovelling shit for 8 hours a day for £7.50 an hour and if you don’t take it there are ten Italians (insert any nationality) in the queue behind you who will take it because they are living ten to a room and have low overheads. It disgusts me
And yet I doubt you are willing to pay more for goods and services, or vote for the party that introduced the minimum wage.
That would be the Labour party that had 6 front bench resignations yesterday then. "Because of what Ben E 1 thinks? Do you even think before typing?  | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do, instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Maybe you want our economy to be more like Cuba, where taxi drivers get more than doctors?
No. I want a country where a bloke who has just been made redundant and walks into a job centre isn’t told that the only available job is shovelling shit for 8 hours a day for £7.50 an hour and if you don’t take it there are ten Italians (insert any nationality) in the queue behind you who will take it because they are living ten to a room and have low overheads. It disgusts me
And yet I doubt you are willing to pay more for goods and services, or vote for the party that introduced the minimum wage.
Then you doubt wrong
Yeah? Big Labour voter?
Nope never. But your ideas on immigration just perpetuates the race to the bottom
Right, so you never voted for a minimum wage then. Really shows how much you care about it then.
That is because the minimum wage is a political con. Before it’s introduction wages kept pace with productivity and company profits, now the gap is huge and ever widening. But as an EU supporter I wouldn’t expect you to see the bigger picture
You seem to be suggesting that Remainers can't see the big picture? You mean people like Stephen Hawking? Major, Blair, Brown and Cameron? MI5, MI6 and GCHQ? NATO? Yeah, it's obvious that people who support the EU can't see the bigger picture! Hahaha
Was pointed out to you the other day on another thread, many of the ex leaders of the organisations you like to list, such as MI6, The Bank of England, British Chambers of Commerce and the CBI backed and supported Brexit.
What does that have to do with supporters of the EU not being able to see the big picture? Hmmm? No, fuck all. That's what I thought.
As pointed out to you before the "We are experts but we don't need experts" that you try to trot out are like the "experts" who don't believe in climate change.
Now we all know that you pretend not to care that one of the biggest deciding factors of how people voted was that educated people chose to remain and non-educated people chose to leave, and you have got a massive chip on your shoulder about it, so if your so upset about it, why don't you go out and do something about it. You can study at any age. It's not too late. "Former governor of The Bank of England Mervyn King - Supported Brexit. Former Head of MI6 Sir Richard Dearlove - Supported Brexit. Former Director General of The British Chambers of Commerce John Longworth - Supported Brexit. Former director general of the CBI Lord Digby Jones - supported Brexit. Former Chief of Defence Staff and head of armed forces at the Ministry of Defence Lord Guthrie - Supported Brexit. Enough Experts for you? 
Not sure about their views on climate change though don't think any of them have ever publicly given any views on climate change?
Views on Brexit though, yes plenty of views given in favour of Leave. | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do, instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Precisely!
Who sets and/or allows these rates?
Had it been the EU, many of you would be screaming and shouting about oppression, imposed laws etc. Yet, you ignore the fact that it's *our* government's(s') doing and instead blame the immigrants for "taking our jobs".
The countries "they"'re coming from could (possibly) blame the "crap EU monetary policy". What's *our* excuse?
It’s the EU that encourages these rates through the free movement of cheap labour. And I am not blaming the immigrants I am trying to protect them!
I can see that side of it but lets be blunt.
The EU doesnt encourage cheap labour, it happens as we
A), dont invest enough training in our own population to keep them competitive at low and mid skilled proffessions.
B), we dont impose regulations on abusive hours as strongly as we should.
C), we've prolonged the living wage debate for too long.
D), many people are not exposed to the true scale to which tech is taking jobs, tightening the roles for labour further.
Brexit wont solve this.
Only a national debate where people czn collate all their issues together so we can work out which issues interlink will
"Encourage might have been the wrong term but what has the EU done to help the 40% youth unemployment rates across France and Southern Europe? Nothing apart from allowing them to move to other member states to depress wages there. | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do, instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Precisely!
Who sets and/or allows these rates?
Had it been the EU, many of you would be screaming and shouting about oppression, imposed laws etc. Yet, you ignore the fact that it's *our* government's(s') doing and instead blame the immigrants for "taking our jobs".
The countries "they"'re coming from could (possibly) blame the "crap EU monetary policy". What's *our* excuse?
It’s the EU that encourages these rates through the free movement of cheap labour. And I am not blaming the immigrants I am trying to protect them!
I can see that side of it but lets be blunt.
The EU doesnt encourage cheap labour, it happens as we
A), dont invest enough training in our own population to keep them competitive at low and mid skilled proffessions.
B), we dont impose regulations on abusive hours as strongly as we should.
C), we've prolonged the living wage debate for too long.
D), many people are not exposed to the true scale to which tech is taking jobs, tightening the roles for labour further.
Brexit wont solve this.
Only a national debate where people czn collate all their issues together so we can work out which issues interlink will
Encourage might have been the wrong term but what has the EU done to help the 40% youth unemployment rates across France and Southern Europe? Nothing apart from allowing them to move to other member states to depress wages there. "
Membership of the club hasn't done young people many favours has it? Our protectionist racket hasn't done Africa a world of good either. Nothing good comes from empire building. | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do, instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Precisely!
Who sets and/or allows these rates?
Had it been the EU, many of you would be screaming and shouting about oppression, imposed laws etc. Yet, you ignore the fact that it's *our* government's(s') doing and instead blame the immigrants for "taking our jobs".
The countries "they"'re coming from could (possibly) blame the "crap EU monetary policy". What's *our* excuse?
It’s the EU that encourages these rates through the free movement of cheap labour. And I am not blaming the immigrants I am trying to protect them!
I can see that side of it but lets be blunt.
The EU doesnt encourage cheap labour, it happens as we
A), dont invest enough training in our own population to keep them competitive at low and mid skilled proffessions.
B), we dont impose regulations on abusive hours as strongly as we should.
C), we've prolonged the living wage debate for too long.
D), many people are not exposed to the true scale to which tech is taking jobs, tightening the roles for labour further.
Brexit wont solve this.
Only a national debate where people czn collate all their issues together so we can work out which issues interlink will
Encourage might have been the wrong term but what has the EU done to help the 40% youth unemployment rates across France and Southern Europe? Nothing apart from allowing them to move to other member states to depress wages there.
Membership of the club hasn't done young people many favours has it? Our protectionist racket hasn't done Africa a world of good either. Nothing good comes from empire building."How are we protectionalist against Africa ? | |||
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"..... Membership of the club hasn't done young people many favours has it? Our protectionist racket hasn't done Africa a world of good either. Nothing good comes from empire building. How are we protectionalist against Africa ? " Nigel Farage said it once and so many brexiters now use the same line without having a clue what is behind it nor how it was expertly debunked by the Professor guy from Liverpool. France & Germany both trade more than the UK does with countries outside of the EU (including Africa). In fact, their external trade is growing as the EU grows because the deals that the EU are making on behalf of the increasing bloc are far better than what Germany or France would get alone. The UK for some reason is seriously lagging behind Germany & France despite having very very favourable trade terms. Perhaps the UK needs its own worse trading terms and then it can show the Germans & French how to trade. Oh, the irony of the world that we are living in at the moment. | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Precisely!
Who sets and/or allows these rates?
Had it been the EU, many of you would be screaming and shouting about oppression, imposed laws etc. Yet, you ignore the fact that it's *our* government's(s') doing and instead blame the immigrants for "taking our jobs".
The countries "they"'re coming from could (possibly) blame the "crap EU monetary policy". What's *our* excuse?
It’s the EU that encourages these rates through the free movement of cheap labour. And I am not blaming the immigrants I am trying to protect them!"Really?! How is that answering my question? They can "encourage" all they like. It's up to *us* to *set* rates. *Our* greed and willingness to shamelessly exploit people and situations, is *not* on the EU. It's on *us*. Which, in addition, leads me nicely to the recent news about doctors and nurses from non-EU countries. One of the reasons why *we* don't have enough doctors on the NHS (apart from not training enough) is that, the conditions, hours and pay for doctors is so shit that *our* doctors move to other countries to work (3 of my GPs' in the last 10 years moved abroad. 1 to New Zealand, 1 to Dubai and 1 to Sweden - but that's fair enough because his wife was from there). We, then, have to look for doctors in other, far away countries and give them the *same* conditions, hours and pay (that our *own* doctors didn't want to do, hence why moving away) rather than *improving* the conditions, hours and pay so that our *own* doctors wouldn't leave in the first place and/or there'd be more people wanting to train. But I suppose that's not *our* fault either. It's probably those damned airlines who made it easy for people to fly around the world. It's never us. It's always someone else's fault. | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do, instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Precisely!
Who sets and/or allows these rates?
Had it been the EU, many of you would be screaming and shouting about oppression, imposed laws etc. Yet, you ignore the fact that it's *our* government's(s') doing and instead blame the immigrants for "taking our jobs".
The countries "they"'re coming from could (possibly) blame the "crap EU monetary policy". What's *our* excuse?
It’s the EU that encourages these rates through the free movement of cheap labour. And I am not blaming the immigrants I am trying to protect them!
I can see that side of it but lets be blunt.
The EU doesnt encourage cheap labour, it happens as we
A), dont invest enough training in our own population to keep them competitive at low and mid skilled proffessions.
B), we dont impose regulations on abusive hours as strongly as we should.
C), we've prolonged the living wage debate for too long.
D), many people are not exposed to the true scale to which tech is taking jobs, tightening the roles for labour further.
Brexit wont solve this.
Only a national debate where people czn collate all their issues together so we can work out which issues interlink will
Encourage might have been the wrong term but what has the EU done to help the 40% youth unemployment rates across France and Southern Europe? Nothing apart from allowing them to move to other member states to depress wages there.
Membership of the club hasn't done young people many favours has it? Our protectionist racket hasn't done Africa a world of good either. Nothing good comes from empire building.
How are we protectionalist against Africa ? "I didn't say we were. I said its a protectionist racket, and as such it hasn't done a world of good for Africa. It also hasn't done much good for many other countries. The whole set up is morally wrong. | |||
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"..... Membership of the club hasn't done young people many favours has it? Our protectionist racket hasn't done Africa a world of good either. Nothing good comes from empire building. How are we protectionalist against Africa ? Nigel Farage said it once and so many brexiters now use the same line without having a clue what is behind it nor how it was expertly debunked by the Professor guy from Liverpool. France & Germany both trade more than the UK does with countries outside of the EU (including Africa). In fact, their external trade is growing as the EU grows because the deals that the EU are making on behalf of the increasing bloc are far better than what Germany or France would get alone. The UK for some reason is seriously lagging behind Germany & France despite having very very favourable trade terms. Perhaps the UK needs its own worse trading terms and then it can show the Germans & French how to trade. Oh, the irony of the world that we are living in at the moment." And how exactly does that benefit the likes of African countries??? | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Precisely!
Who sets and/or allows these rates?
Had it been the EU, many of you would be screaming and shouting about oppression, imposed laws etc. Yet, you ignore the fact that it's *our* government's(s') doing and instead blame the immigrants for "taking our jobs".
The countries "they"'re coming from could (possibly) blame the "crap EU monetary policy". What's *our* excuse?
It’s the EU that encourages these rates through the free movement of cheap labour. And I am not blaming the immigrants I am trying to protect them!
Really?! How is that answering my question? They can "encourage" all they like. It's up to *us* to *set* rates. *Our* greed and willingness to shamelessly exploit people and situations, is *not* on the EU. It's on *us*.
Which, in addition, leads me nicely to the recent news about doctors and nurses from non-EU countries. One of the reasons why *we* don't have enough doctors on the NHS (apart from not training enough) is that, the conditions, hours and pay for doctors is so shit that *our* doctors move to other countries to work (3 of my GPs' in the last 10 years moved abroad. 1 to New Zealand, 1 to Dubai and 1 to Sweden - but that's fair enough because his wife was from there). We, then, have to look for doctors in other, far away countries and give them the *same* conditions, hours and pay (that our *own* doctors didn't want to do, hence why moving away) rather than *improving* the conditions, hours and pay so that our *own* doctors wouldn't leave in the first place and/or there'd be more people wanting to train. But I suppose that's not *our* fault either. It's probably those damned airlines who made it easy for people to fly around the world. It's never us. It's always someone else's fault. "Do you think its fair to places like the Philippines that we poach their nurses so we can save money on not bothering to train ours? | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do, instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Precisely!
Who sets and/or allows these rates?
Had it been the EU, many of you would be screaming and shouting about oppression, imposed laws etc. Yet, you ignore the fact that it's *our* government's(s') doing and instead blame the immigrants for "taking our jobs".
The countries "they"'re coming from could (possibly) blame the "crap EU monetary policy". What's *our* excuse?
It’s the EU that encourages these rates through the free movement of cheap labour. And I am not blaming the immigrants I am trying to protect them!
I can see that side of it but lets be blunt.
The EU doesnt encourage cheap labour, it happens as we
A), dont invest enough training in our own population to keep them competitive at low and mid skilled proffessions.
B), we dont impose regulations on abusive hours as strongly as we should.
C), we've prolonged the living wage debate for too long.
D), many people are not exposed to the true scale to which tech is taking jobs, tightening the roles for labour further.
Brexit wont solve this.
Only a national debate where people czn collate all their issues together so we can work out which issues interlink will
Encourage might have been the wrong term but what has the EU done to help the 40% youth unemployment rates across France and Southern Europe? Nothing apart from allowing them to move to other member states to depress wages there.
Membership of the club hasn't done young people many favours has it? Our protectionist racket hasn't done Africa a world of good either. Nothing good comes from empire building.
How are we protectionalist against Africa ?
I didn't say we were. I said its a protectionist racket, and as such it hasn't done a world of good for Africa. It also hasn't done much good for many other countries. The whole set up is morally wrong."I’m still not sure how specifically though ? And is restriction of free movement of people protectionalist ? There’s a tension between the individual (and their right to maximise earnings) and the state (brain drain) | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Precisely!
Who sets and/or allows these rates?
Had it been the EU, many of you would be screaming and shouting about oppression, imposed laws etc. Yet, you ignore the fact that it's *our* government's(s') doing and instead blame the immigrants for "taking our jobs".
The countries "they"'re coming from could (possibly) blame the "crap EU monetary policy". What's *our* excuse?
It’s the EU that encourages these rates through the free movement of cheap labour. And I am not blaming the immigrants I am trying to protect them!
Really?! How is that answering my question? They can "encourage" all they like. It's up to *us* to *set* rates. *Our* greed and willingness to shamelessly exploit people and situations, is *not* on the EU. It's on *us*.
Which, in addition, leads me nicely to the recent news about doctors and nurses from non-EU countries. One of the reasons why *we* don't have enough doctors on the NHS (apart from not training enough) is that, the conditions, hours and pay for doctors is so shit that *our* doctors move to other countries to work (3 of my GPs' in the last 10 years moved abroad. 1 to New Zealand, 1 to Dubai and 1 to Sweden - but that's fair enough because his wife was from there). We, then, have to look for doctors in other, far away countries and give them the *same* conditions, hours and pay (that our *own* doctors didn't want to do, hence why moving away) rather than *improving* the conditions, hours and pay so that our *own* doctors wouldn't leave in the first place and/or there'd be more people wanting to train. But I suppose that's not *our* fault either. It's probably those damned airlines who made it easy for people to fly around the world. It's never us. It's always someone else's fault. "I haven’t got a clue what any of that was about. Maybe if you used * a bit less it would be easier to understand | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Precisely!
Who sets and/or allows these rates?
Had it been the EU, many of you would be screaming and shouting about oppression, imposed laws etc. Yet, you ignore the fact that it's *our* government's(s') doing and instead blame the immigrants for "taking our jobs".
The countries "they"'re coming from could (possibly) blame the "crap EU monetary policy". What's *our* excuse?
It’s the EU that encourages these rates through the free movement of cheap labour. And I am not blaming the immigrants I am trying to protect them!
Really?! How is that answering my question? They can "encourage" all they like. It's up to *us* to *set* rates. *Our* greed and willingness to shamelessly exploit people and situations, is *not* on the EU. It's on *us*.
Which, in addition, leads me nicely to the recent news about doctors and nurses from non-EU countries. One of the reasons why *we* don't have enough doctors on the NHS (apart from not training enough) is that, the conditions, hours and pay for doctors is so shit that *our* doctors move to other countries to work (3 of my GPs' in the last 10 years moved abroad. 1 to New Zealand, 1 to Dubai and 1 to Sweden - but that's fair enough because his wife was from there). We, then, have to look for doctors in other, far away countries and give them the *same* conditions, hours and pay (that our *own* doctors didn't want to do, hence why moving away) rather than *improving* the conditions, hours and pay so that our *own* doctors wouldn't leave in the first place and/or there'd be more people wanting to train. But I suppose that's not *our* fault either. It's probably those damned airlines who made it easy for people to fly around the world. It's never us. It's always someone else's fault.
Do you think its fair to places like the Philippines that we poach their nurses so we can save money on not bothering to train ours?"No. That's one of my points. | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Precisely!
Who sets and/or allows these rates?
Had it been the EU, many of you would be screaming and shouting about oppression, imposed laws etc. Yet, you ignore the fact that it's *our* government's(s') doing and instead blame the immigrants for "taking our jobs".
The countries "they"'re coming from could (possibly) blame the "crap EU monetary policy". What's *our* excuse?
It’s the EU that encourages these rates through the free movement of cheap labour. And I am not blaming the immigrants I am trying to protect them!
Really?! How is that answering my question? They can "encourage" all they like. It's up to *us* to *set* rates. *Our* greed and willingness to shamelessly exploit people and situations, is *not* on the EU. It's on *us*.
Which, in addition, leads me nicely to the recent news about doctors and nurses from non-EU countries. One of the reasons why *we* don't have enough doctors on the NHS (apart from not training enough) is that, the conditions, hours and pay for doctors is so shit that *our* doctors move to other countries to work (3 of my GPs' in the last 10 years moved abroad. 1 to New Zealand, 1 to Dubai and 1 to Sweden - but that's fair enough because his wife was from there). We, then, have to look for doctors in other, far away countries and give them the *same* conditions, hours and pay (that our *own* doctors didn't want to do, hence why moving away) rather than *improving* the conditions, hours and pay so that our *own* doctors wouldn't leave in the first place and/or there'd be more people wanting to train. But I suppose that's not *our* fault either. It's probably those damned airlines who made it easy for people to fly around the world. It's never us. It's always someone else's fault.
I haven’t got a clue what any of that was about. Maybe if you used * a bit less it would be easier to understand "*...* = capitals/emphasis (to avoid the written equivalent of "shouting"). But, that's cool. There are a few others who can decipher my attempt for a netiquette  | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Precisely!
Who sets and/or allows these rates?
Had it been the EU, many of you would be screaming and shouting about oppression, imposed laws etc. Yet, you ignore the fact that it's *our* government's(s') doing and instead blame the immigrants for "taking our jobs".
The countries "they"'re coming from could (possibly) blame the "crap EU monetary policy". What's *our* excuse?
It’s the EU that encourages these rates through the free movement of cheap labour. And I am not blaming the immigrants I am trying to protect them!
Really?! How is that answering my question? They can "encourage" all they like. It's up to *us* to *set* rates. *Our* greed and willingness to shamelessly exploit people and situations, is *not* on the EU. It's on *us*.
Which, in addition, leads me nicely to the recent news about doctors and nurses from non-EU countries. One of the reasons why *we* don't have enough doctors on the NHS (apart from not training enough) is that, the conditions, hours and pay for doctors is so shit that *our* doctors move to other countries to work (3 of my GPs' in the last 10 years moved abroad. 1 to New Zealand, 1 to Dubai and 1 to Sweden - but that's fair enough because his wife was from there). We, then, have to look for doctors in other, far away countries and give them the *same* conditions, hours and pay (that our *own* doctors didn't want to do, hence why moving away) rather than *improving* the conditions, hours and pay so that our *own* doctors wouldn't leave in the first place and/or there'd be more people wanting to train. But I suppose that's not *our* fault either. It's probably those damned airlines who made it easy for people to fly around the world. It's never us. It's always someone else's fault.
I haven’t got a clue what any of that was about. Maybe if you used * a bit less it would be easier to understand
*...* = capitals/emphasis (to avoid the written equivalent of "shouting").
But, that's cool. There are a few others who can decipher my attempt for a netiquette "Fair enough. But to answer one point, it’s on us to set good pay rates and not exploit people? It’s not the EU’s fault? *WE* are the bleedin EU so in on the racket. But not for much longer thankfully | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Precisely!
Who sets and/or allows these rates?
Had it been the EU, many of you would be screaming and shouting about oppression, imposed laws etc. Yet, you ignore the fact that it's *our* government's(s') doing and instead blame the immigrants for "taking our jobs".
The countries "they"'re coming from could (possibly) blame the "crap EU monetary policy". What's *our* excuse?
It’s the EU that encourages these rates through the free movement of cheap labour. And I am not blaming the immigrants I am trying to protect them!
Really?! How is that answering my question? They can "encourage" all they like. It's up to *us* to *set* rates. *Our* greed and willingness to shamelessly exploit people and situations, is *not* on the EU. It's on *us*.
Which, in addition, leads me nicely to the recent news about doctors and nurses from non-EU countries. One of the reasons why *we* don't have enough doctors on the NHS (apart from not training enough) is that, the conditions, hours and pay for doctors is so shit that *our* doctors move to other countries to work (3 of my GPs' in the last 10 years moved abroad. 1 to New Zealand, 1 to Dubai and 1 to Sweden - but that's fair enough because his wife was from there). We, then, have to look for doctors in other, far away countries and give them the *same* conditions, hours and pay (that our *own* doctors didn't want to do, hence why moving away) rather than *improving* the conditions, hours and pay so that our *own* doctors wouldn't leave in the first place and/or there'd be more people wanting to train. But I suppose that's not *our* fault either. It's probably those damned airlines who made it easy for people to fly around the world. It's never us. It's always someone else's fault.
I haven’t got a clue what any of that was about. Maybe if you used * a bit less it would be easier to understand
*...* = capitals/emphasis (to avoid the written equivalent of "shouting").
But, that's cool. There are a few others who can decipher my attempt for a netiquette
Fair enough. But to answer one point, it’s on us to set good pay rates and not exploit people? It’s not the EU’s fault? *WE* are the bleedin EU so in on the racket. But not for much longer thankfully "Your point is that once we leave the EU, the payrates will magically go up here? Are you serious?! If anything, things in general will get worse because it's the EU that insists on workers' rights  There's nothing in EU rules/laws right now that "forces" us (which is what the Brexiteers' issue is) to pay people a pittance. It's, literally, ridiculous that, for the things we're free to do as we like, we don't do the right thing and, for the things we aren't, it's the EU's fault! Who's fault is it gonna be Ben when we leave the EU and can no longer blame them for things we have full control over? | |||
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"So is the ‘exploitation’ of philipana nurses the UKs fault or the EUs ? I think the point is the Uk have control here (or the companies within) ... but maybe I missed it the point !" Who poaches the nurses? Us or the EU? Have you heard of many Phillipino nurses working in Italy for example? | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Precisely!
Who sets and/or allows these rates?
Had it been the EU, many of you would be screaming and shouting about oppression, imposed laws etc. Yet, you ignore the fact that it's *our* government's(s') doing and instead blame the immigrants for "taking our jobs".
The countries "they"'re coming from could (possibly) blame the "crap EU monetary policy". What's *our* excuse?
It’s the EU that encourages these rates through the free movement of cheap labour. And I am not blaming the immigrants I am trying to protect them!
Really?! How is that answering my question? They can "encourage" all they like. It's up to *us* to *set* rates. *Our* greed and willingness to shamelessly exploit people and situations, is *not* on the EU. It's on *us*.
Which, in addition, leads me nicely to the recent news about doctors and nurses from non-EU countries. One of the reasons why *we* don't have enough doctors on the NHS (apart from not training enough) is that, the conditions, hours and pay for doctors is so shit that *our* doctors move to other countries to work (3 of my GPs' in the last 10 years moved abroad. 1 to New Zealand, 1 to Dubai and 1 to Sweden - but that's fair enough because his wife was from there). We, then, have to look for doctors in other, far away countries and give them the *same* conditions, hours and pay (that our *own* doctors didn't want to do, hence why moving away) rather than *improving* the conditions, hours and pay so that our *own* doctors wouldn't leave in the first place and/or there'd be more people wanting to train. But I suppose that's not *our* fault either. It's probably those damned airlines who made it easy for people to fly around the world. It's never us. It's always someone else's fault.
I haven’t got a clue what any of that was about. Maybe if you used * a bit less it would be easier to understand
*...* = capitals/emphasis (to avoid the written equivalent of "shouting").
But, that's cool. There are a few others who can decipher my attempt for a netiquette
Fair enough. But to answer one point, it’s on us to set good pay rates and not exploit people? It’s not the EU’s fault? *WE* are the bleedin EU so in on the racket. But not for much longer thankfully
Your point is that once we leave the EU, the payrates will magically go up here? Are you serious?! If anything, things in general will get worse because it's the EU that insists on workers' rights There's nothing in EU rules/laws right now that "forces" us (which is what the Brexiteers' issue is) to pay people a pittance. It's, literally, ridiculous that, for the things we're free to do as we like, we don't do the right thing and, for the things we aren't, it's the EU's fault! Who's fault is it gonna be Ben when we leave the EU and can no longer blame them for things we have full control over? "It was the leader of the 'Britain stronger In' remain campaign, Lord Stuart Rose who said during the EU referendum campaign (while being grilled by MP's on a select committee) that wages in the UK would rise if the country leaves the EU. He said big business may not like it (maybe why a lot of big business supported remain) and the wages for the average worker would increase. | |||
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"...and that's before we've even left the EU. Once we do, and we have to make concessions to the other 95% of the world that we want trade deals with, the numbers will more than likely soar. As long as we have control though hey?
Why? Aren’t things supposed to go to pot once we’ve left?
Do you call "more immigration" as "things going to pot"?
You are the one who keeps saying that the economy will suffer once we’ve left the EU yet now you say that immigration will soar once we’ve left. What will all these immigrants do?
The economy *could* still suffer *and* immigration *could* still soar. One doesn't have to be dependent on the other.
Immigrants will do the same thing they've always done: work.
Different aspect on the whole issue (and this is not a reply to you personally Ben. Just an additional thought in general) : I don't understand why some people are opposed to unskilled/low-skilled immigrants coming over. Personally, I'd much rather *they* come over and do all the jobs we don't want to do instead of the high skilled jobs, thus competing with the *local* talent/jobseekers.
Maybe if the jobs we don’t want to do paid more then we might want to do them and ‘they’ wouldn’t be exploited . Or do you think it’s ok for ‘them’ to live on shit wages here because it’s better than the no wages in the country that they came from, thanks in many cases to crap EU monetary policy?
Precisely!
Who sets and/or allows these rates?
Had it been the EU, many of you would be screaming and shouting about oppression, imposed laws etc. Yet, you ignore the fact that it's *our* government's(s') doing and instead blame the immigrants for "taking our jobs".
The countries "they"'re coming from could (possibly) blame the "crap EU monetary policy". What's *our* excuse?
It’s the EU that encourages these rates through the free movement of cheap labour. And I am not blaming the immigrants I am trying to protect them!
Really?! How is that answering my question? They can "encourage" all they like. It's up to *us* to *set* rates. *Our* greed and willingness to shamelessly exploit people and situations, is *not* on the EU. It's on *us*.
Which, in addition, leads me nicely to the recent news about doctors and nurses from non-EU countries. One of the reasons why *we* don't have enough doctors on the NHS (apart from not training enough) is that, the conditions, hours and pay for doctors is so shit that *our* doctors move to other countries to work (3 of my GPs' in the last 10 years moved abroad. 1 to New Zealand, 1 to Dubai and 1 to Sweden - but that's fair enough because his wife was from there). We, then, have to look for doctors in other, far away countries and give them the *same* conditions, hours and pay (that our *own* doctors didn't want to do, hence why moving away) rather than *improving* the conditions, hours and pay so that our *own* doctors wouldn't leave in the first place and/or there'd be more people wanting to train. But I suppose that's not *our* fault either. It's probably those damned airlines who made it easy for people to fly around the world. It's never us. It's always someone else's fault.
I haven’t got a clue what any of that was about. Maybe if you used * a bit less it would be easier to understand
*...* = capitals/emphasis (to avoid the written equivalent of "shouting").
But, that's cool. There are a few others who can decipher my attempt for a netiquette
Fair enough. But to answer one point, it’s on us to set good pay rates and not exploit people? It’s not the EU’s fault? *WE* are the bleedin EU so in on the racket. But not for much longer thankfully
Your point is that once we leave the EU, the payrates will magically go up here? Are you serious?! If anything, things in general will get worse because it's the EU that insists on workers' rights There's nothing in EU rules/laws right now that "forces" us (which is what the Brexiteers' issue is) to pay people a pittance. It's, literally, ridiculous that, for the things we're free to do as we like, we don't do the right thing and, for the things we aren't, it's the EU's fault! Who's fault is it gonna be Ben when we leave the EU and can no longer blame them for things we have full control over?
It was the leader of the 'Britain stronger In' remain campaign, Lord Stuart Rose who said during the EU referendum campaign (while being grilled by MP's on a select committee) that wages in the UK would rise if the country leaves the EU. He said big business may not like it (maybe why a lot of big business supported remain) and the wages for the average worker would increase. "He said they would rise if we are short of labour. It’s not clear whether this will happen or whether we we will simply loosen non Eu immigration. He also said that is not necessarily a good thing. I’ve just watched that segment and he didn’t mention big business. Apologies if it was on another part of the select commitee. | |||
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"So is the ‘exploitation’ of philipana nurses the UKs fault or the EUs ? I think the point is the Uk have control here (or the companies within) ... but maybe I missed it the point ! Who poaches the nurses? Us or the EU? Have you heard of many Phillipino nurses working in Italy for example?" I’ve just said, we are the EU. And I know a couple of Philipino nurses and the only other language they have is English so working in Italy for example might be a bit tricky | |||
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"So is the ‘exploitation’ of philipana nurses the UKs fault or the EUs ? I think the point is the Uk have control here (or the companies within) ... but maybe I missed it the point ! Who poaches the nurses? Us or the EU? Have you heard of many Phillipino nurses working in Italy for example? I’ve just said, we are the EU. And I know a couple of Philipino nurses and the only other language they have is English so working in Italy for example might be a bit tricky " So anything we do is the eus fault ? Will This all change once we’re out ? | |||
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"So is the ‘exploitation’ of philipana nurses the UKs fault or the EUs ? I think the point is the Uk have control here (or the companies within) ... but maybe I missed it the point ! Who poaches the nurses? Us or the EU? Have you heard of many Phillipino nurses working in Italy for example? I’ve just said, we are the EU. And I know a couple of Philipino nurses and the only other language they have is English so working in Italy for example might be a bit tricky So anything we do is the eus fault ? Will This all change once we’re out ? " Not all no but the lowest paid will see a rise in pay | |||
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"So is the ‘exploitation’ of philipana nurses the UKs fault or the EUs ? I think the point is the Uk have control here (or the companies within) ... but maybe I missed it the point ! Who poaches the nurses? Us or the EU? Have you heard of many Phillipino nurses working in Italy for example? I’ve just said, we are the EU. And I know a couple of Philipino nurses and the only other language they have is English so working in Italy for example might be a bit tricky So anything we do is the eus fault ? Will This all change once we’re out ? Not all no but the lowest paid will see a rise in pay" I’m assuming your looping back round to supply and demand, whereas the point I think was being raised is companies could pay more today if they wanted to .... but this does assume we don’t let in twice as many Philippina nurses to offset the EU ones ! | |||
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"Just have a think the UK was built on immigration. Eid today windrush and before. Peterborough was at a standstill today because no taxi drivers, drs nurses NHS I can go on but you get my point x" . No not really, well not unless your assuming less than 100,000 people built the UK!. Typically for the last ooo 1000 years immigration to the UK was really quite low | |||
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"So is the ‘exploitation’ of philipana nurses the UKs fault or the EUs ? I think the point is the Uk have control here (or the companies within) ... but maybe I missed it the point ! Who poaches the nurses? Us or the EU? Have you heard of many Phillipino nurses working in Italy for example? I’ve just said, we are the EU. And I know a couple of Philipino nurses and the only other language they have is English so working in Italy for example might be a bit tricky So anything we do is the eus fault ? Will This all change once we’re out ? Not all no but the lowest paid will see a rise in pay I’m assuming your looping back round to supply and demand, whereas the point I think was being raised is companies could pay more today if they wanted to .... but this does assume we don’t let in twice as many Philippina nurses to offset the EU ones !" Of course companies could pay more now if they wanted to but why would they? | |||
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"We have to remain competitive for migrants, so that we're more attractive than other countries. This includes ease of access, wages, cost of living, work experience offered as well as having a welcoming environment and population. The UK is not no 1 any longer and the current EU migrants have a right to stay here for life potentially - which means that the under-invested in schools, hospitals, housing and services not only have to be invested into to catch up but an awful lot more has to be spent too, so that you can cope in future. But your government is about making it harder for you, as you are on an austerity plan, so that you get substandard lives. A portent of things to come? At present it's tough for business to plan much, as the government keeps delaying publication of more Brexit plan details. " Lol | |||
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"So is the ‘exploitation’ of philipana nurses the UKs fault or the EUs ? I think the point is the Uk have control here (or the companies within) ... but maybe I missed it the point ! Who poaches the nurses? Us or the EU? Have you heard of many Phillipino nurses working in Italy for example? I’ve just said, we are the EU. And I know a couple of Philipino nurses and the only other language they have is English so working in Italy for example might be a bit tricky So anything we do is the eus fault ? Will This all change once we’re out ? Not all no but the lowest paid will see a rise in pay I’m assuming your looping back round to supply and demand, whereas the point I think was being raised is companies could pay more today if they wanted to .... but this does assume we don’t let in twice as many Philippina nurses to offset the EU ones ! Of course companies could pay more now if they wanted to but why would they?" Of course. Why would they? If the big, bad EU is not forcing them to, why should *our* goverment(s), hey? It's not as if it's the sensible/right thing to do. If everything (no matter what area of society) was left to the individual/companies to do as they see fit, we all know the chaos we'd find ourselves in. This is what national governments are for. This is what laws are for. But why would Theresa implement anything towards the "fair society" she keeps banging on about? After all, who would she (and the Brexiteers) blame if/when (God forbid) the big, bad EU forced this fairness upon us? "(...) we want to be able to control our laws (...)" (especially when we can get away with not passing any ). | |||
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"So is the ‘exploitation’ of philipana nurses the UKs fault or the EUs ? I think the point is the Uk have control here (or the companies within) ... but maybe I missed it the point ! Who poaches the nurses? Us or the EU? Have you heard of many Phillipino nurses working in Italy for example? I’ve just said, we are the EU. And I know a couple of Philipino nurses and the only other language they have is English so working in Italy for example might be a bit tricky So anything we do is the eus fault ? Will This all change once we’re out ? Not all no but the lowest paid will see a rise in pay I’m assuming your looping back round to supply and demand, whereas the point I think was being raised is companies could pay more today if they wanted to .... but this does assume we don’t let in twice as many Philippina nurses to offset the EU ones ! Of course companies could pay more now if they wanted to but why would they? Of course. Why would they? If the big, bad EU is not forcing them to, why should *our* goverment(s), hey? It's not as if it's the sensible/right thing to do. If everything (no matter what area of society) was left to the individual/companies to do as they see fit, we all know the chaos we'd find ourselves in. This is what national governments are for. This is what laws are for. But why would Theresa implement anything towards the "fair society" she keeps banging on about? After all, who would she (and the Brexiteers) blame if/when (God forbid) the big, bad EU forced this fairness upon us? "(...) we want to be able to control our laws (...)" (especially when we can get away with not passing any )."But the EU show no sign of ever doing so. As they are so quick to point out they don't interfere with the internal running of individual member states. Apart from all the exceptions | |||
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"So is the ‘exploitation’ of philipana nurses the UKs fault or the EUs ? I think the point is the Uk have control here (or the companies within) ... but maybe I missed it the point ! Who poaches the nurses? Us or the EU? Have you heard of many Phillipino nurses working in Italy for example? I’ve just said, we are the EU. And I know a couple of Philipino nurses and the only other language they have is English so working in Italy for example might be a bit tricky So anything we do is the eus fault ? Will This all change once we’re out ? Not all no but the lowest paid will see a rise in pay I’m assuming your looping back round to supply and demand, whereas the point I think was being raised is companies could pay more today if they wanted to .... but this does assume we don’t let in twice as many Philippina nurses to offset the EU ones ! Of course companies could pay more now if they wanted to but why would they? Of course. Why would they? If the big, bad EU is not forcing them to, why should *our* goverment(s), hey? It's not as if it's the sensible/right thing to do. If everything (no matter what area of society) was left to the individual/companies to do as they see fit, we all know the chaos we'd find ourselves in. This is what national governments are for. This is what laws are for. But why would Theresa implement anything towards the "fair society" she keeps banging on about? After all, who would she (and the Brexiteers) blame if/when (God forbid) the big, bad EU forced this fairness upon us? "(...) we want to be able to control our laws (...)" (especially when we can get away with not passing any ).
But the EU show no sign of ever doing so. As they are so quick to point out they don't interfere with the internal running of individual member states. Apart from all the exceptions "What is it you’re suggesting the EU do? I’m confused what your point is .... | |||
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