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"If NI gets pissed off enough to join Eire, then the DUP are finished. " Not sure you are correct there, I can easily see a role reversal taking place. Shin Fain was (in the 70s 80s and 90s) the mouthpiece and political arm of the Provisional IRA, it represented the republicans who favoured the use of violence to force the British out of NI. The DUP would be perfectly placed (and I believe have the contacts) to fill the same role for the loyalists who also favour the use of violence to maintain the status quo. | |||
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"If NI gets pissed off enough to join Eire, then the DUP are finished. " I spoke on the phone over the weekend to a woman who I worked with in the early 1990's whilst in retail. She ran two shops for us in Belfast and was very much a Unionist. Her parents were (one has passed) staunchly active, both politically and religiously; but she and her surviving Mother have had a real change of heart in recent years. She told me on Saturday that her view was that her children's future would be more aligned with the ROI and EU in their lifetime and so it was up to her to plan for that to be as good as possible for them. She told me (agreed - one person's opinion and one swallow does not make a Spring etc) that there is now a generation of mature adults who do not have the same blind faith attachment to the UK and who would act in a more selfish way to do what is right for them and their families as opposed to blindly following a political doctrine aligned to a Monarchy and a State that they do not necessarily feel as aligned to as they do to the island that they live on. | |||
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"If NI gets pissed off enough to join Eire, then the DUP are finished. Not sure you are correct there, I can easily see a role reversal taking place. Shin Fain was (in the 70s 80s and 90s) the mouthpiece and political arm of the Provisional IRA, it represented the republicans who favoured the use of violence to force the British out of NI. The DUP would be perfectly placed (and I believe have the contacts) to fill the same role for the loyalists who also favour the use of violence to maintain the status quo." The GFA explicitly states that it is up to the people who live on the island of Ireland to decide their own futures. Armed Unionist thugs would have very little support in NI these days, particularly from people under 40/50 years old. | |||
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" Armed Unionist thugs would have very little support in NI these days, particularly from people under 40/50 years old." The problem is armed thugs don't need support all they need to be able to do is rule by fear. The actions of security forces will over time help swell their ranks and gather support. That is just how insurgencies work. | |||
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"I don’t normally like regional polls much but thought this one was interesting because of the subject In Northern Ireland remains outvoted leave by 56 to 44.... but now it looks like leave support is down 13 Pts from 44 to 31% Maybe it’s time the likes of JRM listened to the people who have to live with the biggest issue as there is more support for staying in the customs union and or single market, and more support for that from Protestant than catholic, Since that is the case I wonder if the dup will start to shift their position as well " I never pay too much attention to opinion polls as some are meaningless. I have a house in Northern Ireland and am quite happy to let the DUP and the current government negotiate our EU exit . It is difficult to see why NI would want to remain in the customs union. NI is part of the UK and it would be pointless treating it any differently to the UK. The only polls that concern me are the results returned on the day of an election. A lot of the infrastructure is already in place to monitor cross border movement ( taxes being different in Ireland ). | |||
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"If NI gets pissed off enough to join Eire, then the DUP are finished. Not sure you are correct there, I can easily see a role reversal taking place. Shin Fain was (in the 70s 80s and 90s) the mouthpiece and political arm of the Provisional IRA, it represented the republicans who favoured the use of violence to force the British out of NI. The DUP would be perfectly placed (and I believe have the contacts) to fill the same role for the loyalists who also favour the use of violence to maintain the status quo. The GFA explicitly states that it is up to the people who live on the island of Ireland to decide their own futures. Armed Unionist thugs would have very little support in NI these days, particularly from people under 40/50 years old." I do not think that any terrorist organisation in Ireland had much support. They ruled by intimidation and fear and were very simply a vocal and violent minority . It was also very easy to use political sympathy as a cover for criminal activity. | |||
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" Armed Unionist thugs would have very little support in NI these days, particularly from people under 40/50 years old. The problem is armed thugs don't need support all they need to be able to do is rule by fear. The actions of security forces will over time help swell their ranks and gather support. That is just how insurgencies work." Sad but true. One thing insurgencies do benefit from though is money. Smuggling has historically been a major source of income for NI terrorist organisations, and likely will be again. | |||
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"I don’t normally like regional polls much but thought this one was interesting because of the subject In Northern Ireland remains outvoted leave by 56 to 44.... but now it looks like leave support is down 13 Pts from 44 to 31% Maybe it’s time the likes of JRM listened to the people who have to live with the biggest issue as there is more support for staying in the customs union and or single market, and more support for that from Protestant than catholic, Since that is the case I wonder if the dup will start to shift their position as well " Or maybe people should stop listening to opinion polls. Which polls predicted a majority for Cameron, then Brexit, then Trump, and then May losing her majority in the Commons? | |||
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"I just find it ironic that those people most ferocious about wanting borders in Northern Ireland are those people living in Leeds or Southampton or Kent or Somerset... or Cannock....when you say you want to listen to locals and you want democracy, but yet when locals say they don’t want it they turn a blind eye And you know if there were the sort of infrastructure projects in England there would be nimbyism going on all over the shop I have no doubt most of you would sell Northern Ireland down the river if it meant your Brexit utopia being fulfilled " Another remoaner makes pointless comments. | |||
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"I just find it ironic that those people most ferocious about wanting borders in Northern Ireland are those people living in Leeds or Southampton or Kent or Somerset... or Cannock....when you say you want to listen to locals and you want democracy, but yet when locals say they don’t want it they turn a blind eye And you know if there were the sort of infrastructure projects in England there would be nimbyism going on all over the shop I have no doubt most of you would sell Northern Ireland down the river if it meant your Brexit utopia being fulfilled Another remoaner makes pointless comments. " Well, would you? If Brexit meant NI left the UK, and the only way to keep the United Kingdom together was to say in the EU, which would you chose? | |||
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"I just find it ironic that those people most ferocious about wanting borders in Northern Ireland are those people living in Leeds or Southampton or Kent or Somerset... or Cannock....when you say you want to listen to locals and you want democracy, but yet when locals say they don’t want it they turn a blind eye And you know if there were the sort of infrastructure projects in England there would be nimbyism going on all over the shop I have no doubt most of you would sell Northern Ireland down the river if it meant your Brexit utopia being fulfilled Another remoaner makes pointless comments. Well, would you? If Brexit meant NI left the UK, and the only way to keep the United Kingdom together was to say in the EU, which would you chose?" It's never going to happen. No matter how much you remoaners fantasise. The UK, including NI is leaving the EU. And as I have said twice previously, there will be no hard border between NI and Eire. And if the EU want one, then I suggest Juncker learns some bricklaying skills and builds it himself. | |||
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"I just find it ironic that those people most ferocious about wanting borders in Northern Ireland are those people living in Leeds or Southampton or Kent or Somerset... or Cannock....when you say you want to listen to locals and you want democracy, but yet when locals say they don’t want it they turn a blind eye And you know if there were the sort of infrastructure projects in England there would be nimbyism going on all over the shop I have no doubt most of you would sell Northern Ireland down the river if it meant your Brexit utopia being fulfilled Another remoaner makes pointless comments. Well, would you? If Brexit meant NI left the UK, and the only way to keep the United Kingdom together was to say in the EU, which would you chose? It's never going to happen. No matter how much you remoaners fantasise. The UK, including NI is leaving the EU. And as I have said twice previously, there will be no hard border between NI and Eire. And if the EU want one, then I suggest Juncker learns some bricklaying skills and builds it himself." So any Eu citizen could get a ferry to Ireland, walk or drive over the soft border into NI and thus have full access to the UK, given there will, I assume, be no checks between Britain and NI. So much for regaining control of our borders. | |||
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"I just find it ironic that those people most ferocious about wanting borders in Northern Ireland are those people living in Leeds or Southampton or Kent or Somerset... or Cannock....when you say you want to listen to locals and you want democracy, but yet when locals say they don’t want it they turn a blind eye And you know if there were the sort of infrastructure projects in England there would be nimbyism going on all over the shop I have no doubt most of you would sell Northern Ireland down the river if it meant your Brexit utopia being fulfilled " The fact is that remainers are seeking to weaponise the border issue and using the threat of violence to try to scare people. The border can be easily managed with new technology a number plate recognition camera on top of a pole would be no different to installing a street light. Do you see people in Ireland objecting to street lights being installed on the border? David Davis recently said there are already enough camera sites already in situ (speed cameras and cctv) to effectively monitor the border anyway so new camera sites may not even be needed. Parcels are tracked electronically these days as well. The whole thing is being blown up out of proportion by remoaners to try to frustrate brexit. | |||
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"I just find it ironic that those people most ferocious about wanting borders in Northern Ireland are those people living in Leeds or Southampton or Kent or Somerset... or Cannock....when you say you want to listen to locals and you want democracy, but yet when locals say they don’t want it they turn a blind eye And you know if there were the sort of infrastructure projects in England there would be nimbyism going on all over the shop I have no doubt most of you would sell Northern Ireland down the river if it meant your Brexit utopia being fulfilled Another remoaner makes pointless comments. Well, would you? If Brexit meant NI left the UK, and the only way to keep the United Kingdom together was to say in the EU, which would you chose? It's never going to happen. No matter how much you remoaners fantasise. The UK, including NI is leaving the EU. And as I have said twice previously, there will be no hard border between NI and Eire. And if the EU want one, then I suggest Juncker learns some bricklaying skills and builds it himself." "everything will be fine! How will we make things be fine, exactly? I just told you, everything will be fine!" Got to love Brexiters head in the sand approach to this issue. | |||
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"I just find it ironic that those people most ferocious about wanting borders in Northern Ireland are those people living in Leeds or Southampton or Kent or Somerset... or Cannock....when you say you want to listen to locals and you want democracy, but yet when locals say they don’t want it they turn a blind eye And you know if there were the sort of infrastructure projects in England there would be nimbyism going on all over the shop I have no doubt most of you would sell Northern Ireland down the river if it meant your Brexit utopia being fulfilled The fact is that remainers are seeking to weaponise the border issue and using the threat of violence to try to scare people. The border can be easily managed with new technology a number plate recognition camera on top of a pole would be no different to installing a street light. Do you see people in Ireland objecting to street lights being installed on the border? David Davis recently said there are already enough camera sites already in situ (speed cameras and cctv) to effectively monitor the border anyway so new camera sites may not even be needed. Parcels are tracked electronically these days as well. The whole thing is being blown up out of proportion by remoaners to try to frustrate brexit. " And it's amazing how the EU want a hard border between NI and Eire, but are critical of Trump when he wants a wall on his border! | |||
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"I just find it ironic that those people most ferocious about wanting borders in Northern Ireland are those people living in Leeds or Southampton or Kent or Somerset... or Cannock....when you say you want to listen to locals and you want democracy, but yet when locals say they don’t want it they turn a blind eye And you know if there were the sort of infrastructure projects in England there would be nimbyism going on all over the shop I have no doubt most of you would sell Northern Ireland down the river if it meant your Brexit utopia being fulfilled The fact is that remainers are seeking to weaponise the border issue and using the threat of violence to try to scare people. The border can be easily managed with new technology a number plate recognition camera on top of a pole would be no different to installing a street light. Do you see people in Ireland objecting to street lights being installed on the border? David Davis recently said there are already enough camera sites already in situ (speed cameras and cctv) to effectively monitor the border anyway so new camera sites may not even be needed. Parcels are tracked electronically these days as well. The whole thing is being blown up out of proportion by remoaners to try to frustrate brexit. " But how does that help? Does everyone with a non UK Number plate get stopped to make sure they have the relevant paperwork? That sounds like a hard border to me. | |||
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"I just find it ironic that those people most ferocious about wanting borders in Northern Ireland are those people living in Leeds or Southampton or Kent or Somerset... or Cannock....when you say you want to listen to locals and you want democracy, but yet when locals say they don’t want it they turn a blind eye And you know if there were the sort of infrastructure projects in England there would be nimbyism going on all over the shop I have no doubt most of you would sell Northern Ireland down the river if it meant your Brexit utopia being fulfilled The fact is that remainers are seeking to weaponise the border issue and using the threat of violence to try to scare people. The border can be easily managed with new technology a number plate recognition camera on top of a pole would be no different to installing a street light. Do you see people in Ireland objecting to street lights being installed on the border? David Davis recently said there are already enough camera sites already in situ (speed cameras and cctv) to effectively monitor the border anyway so new camera sites may not even be needed. Parcels are tracked electronically these days as well. The whole thing is being blown up out of proportion by remoaners to try to frustrate brexit. " lol are you on something ??? There is hundreds of roads crossing the border and as for licence plate recognition have you never used a screwdriver 
Fuck sake There is even an electric plate cove that can cover the licence plat when you want it,
Ya don't even have to stop to cover a licence plate it's a flick of a switch ,
David Davis is talking through his hole if he thinks cameras and technology will work , while half the British army was minding the border there was still lads going back and forth undetected | |||
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" So any Eu citizen could get a ferry to Ireland, walk or drive over the soft border into NI and thus have full access to the UK, given there will, I assume, be no checks between Britain and NI. So much for regaining control of our borders. " I wouldn’t hold your breath because it’s the point none of them will ever answer!!! How do they stop an eu citizens who can legally travel to Ireland then catch a train or coach the north and then catch a ferry or an internal flight to the mainland.... They want borders where it suits them but want to keep the one land border we have with the eu open... Ooooh lets just point a big arrow that way!!!!!!!!! | |||
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" So any Eu citizen could get a ferry to Ireland, walk or drive over the soft border into NI and thus have full access to the UK, given there will, I assume, be no checks between Britain and NI. So much for regaining control of our borders. I wouldn’t hold your breath because it’s the point none of them will ever answer!!! How do they stop an eu citizens who can legally travel to Ireland then catch a train or coach the north and then catch a ferry or an internal flight to the mainland.... They want borders where it suits them but want to keep the one land border we have with the eu open... Ooooh lets just point a big arrow that way!!!!!!!!!" Except that it is not that easy to get there, because it's an island, and there are checks at ports and airports! | |||
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" So any Eu citizen could get a ferry to Ireland, walk or drive over the soft border into NI and thus have full access to the UK, given there will, I assume, be no checks between Britain and NI. So much for regaining control of our borders. I wouldn’t hold your breath because it’s the point none of them will ever answer!!! How do they stop an eu citizens who can legally travel to Ireland then catch a train or coach the north and then catch a ferry or an internal flight to the mainland.... They want borders where it suits them but want to keep the one land border we have with the eu open... Ooooh lets just point a big arrow that way!!!!!!!!! Except that it is not that easy to get there, because it's an island, and there are checks at ports and airports!" Except all European Union citizens have rights of free movement to Ireland. Hence no checks for them. | |||
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" So any Eu citizen could get a ferry to Ireland, walk or drive over the soft border into NI and thus have full access to the UK, given there will, I assume, be no checks between Britain and NI. So much for regaining control of our borders. I wouldn’t hold your breath because it’s the point none of them will ever answer!!! How do they stop an eu citizens who can legally travel to Ireland then catch a train or coach the north and then catch a ferry or an internal flight to the mainland.... They want borders where it suits them but want to keep the one land border we have with the eu open... Ooooh lets just point a big arrow that way!!!!!!!!! Except that it is not that easy to get there, because it's an island, and there are checks at ports and airports! Except all European Union citizens have rights of free movement to Ireland. Hence no checks for them. " But illegals don't and it will stop them. And most EU citizens don't go to and don't via Ireland. | |||
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" So any Eu citizen could get a ferry to Ireland, walk or drive over the soft border into NI and thus have full access to the UK, given there will, I assume, be no checks between Britain and NI. So much for regaining control of our borders. I wouldn’t hold your breath because it’s the point none of them will ever answer!!! How do they stop an eu citizens who can legally travel to Ireland then catch a train or coach the north and then catch a ferry or an internal flight to the mainland.... They want borders where it suits them but want to keep the one land border we have with the eu open... Ooooh lets just point a big arrow that way!!!!!!!!! Except that it is not that easy to get there, because it's an island, and there are checks at ports and airports! Except all European Union citizens have rights of free movement to Ireland. Hence no checks for them. " There are checks on EU citizens. If you've ever been on holiday from the UK to Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc then you have to show your passport. This is because the UK is an island and you need to pass through either an airport or a ferry Port. It's the same for Rep. Of Ireland. | |||
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"I just find it ironic that those people most ferocious about wanting borders in Northern Ireland are those people living in Leeds or Southampton or Kent or Somerset... or Cannock....when you say you want to listen to locals and you want democracy, but yet when locals say they don’t want it they turn a blind eye And you know if there were the sort of infrastructure projects in England there would be nimbyism going on all over the shop I have no doubt most of you would sell Northern Ireland down the river if it meant your Brexit utopia being fulfilled Another remoaner makes pointless comments. Well, would you? If Brexit meant NI left the UK, and the only way to keep the United Kingdom together was to say in the EU, which would you chose? It's never going to happen. No matter how much you remoaners fantasise. The UK, including NI is leaving the EU. And as I have said twice previously, there will be no hard border between NI and Eire. And if the EU want one, then I suggest Juncker learns some bricklaying skills and builds it himself." It might, so which would you chose? | |||
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" So any Eu citizen could get a ferry to Ireland, walk or drive over the soft border into NI and thus have full access to the UK, given there will, I assume, be no checks between Britain and NI. So much for regaining control of our borders. I wouldn’t hold your breath because it’s the point none of them will ever answer!!! How do they stop an eu citizens who can legally travel to Ireland then catch a train or coach the north and then catch a ferry or an internal flight to the mainland.... They want borders where it suits them but want to keep the one land border we have with the eu open... Ooooh lets just point a big arrow that way!!!!!!!!! Except that it is not that easy to get there, because it's an island, and there are checks at ports and airports! Except all European Union citizens have rights of free movement to Ireland. Hence no checks for them. There are checks on EU citizens. If you've ever been on holiday from the UK to Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc then you have to show your passport. This is because the UK is an island and you need to pass through either an airport or a ferry Port. It's the same for Rep. Of Ireland. " Have you ever driven from France to Italy and been stopped? There are no border checks at all! | |||
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" So any Eu citizen could get a ferry to Ireland, walk or drive over the soft border into NI and thus have full access to the UK, given there will, I assume, be no checks between Britain and NI. So much for regaining control of our borders. I wouldn’t hold your breath because it’s the point none of them will ever answer!!! How do they stop an eu citizens who can legally travel to Ireland then catch a train or coach the north and then catch a ferry or an internal flight to the mainland.... They want borders where it suits them but want to keep the one land border we have with the eu open... Ooooh lets just point a big arrow that way!!!!!!!!! Except that it is not that easy to get there, because it's an island, and there are checks at ports and airports! Except all European Union citizens have rights of free movement to Ireland. Hence no checks for them. There are checks on EU citizens. If you've ever been on holiday from the UK to Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc then you have to show your passport. This is because the UK is an island and you need to pass through either an airport or a ferry Port. It's the same for Rep. Of Ireland. " Yes, but once they show a European union passport, they can automatically enter Ireland and then easily enter the UK given the apparent soft border with No. You can't square the circle. If you want to stop EU citizens entering the UK illegally, you either have to have checks at the NI border with the Republic or checks on anyone entering Britain from the north. | |||
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" So any Eu citizen could get a ferry to Ireland, walk or drive over the soft border into NI and thus have full access to the UK, given there will, I assume, be no checks between Britain and NI. So much for regaining control of our borders. I wouldn’t hold your breath because it’s the point none of them will ever answer!!! How do they stop an eu citizens who can legally travel to Ireland then catch a train or coach the north and then catch a ferry or an internal flight to the mainland.... They want borders where it suits them but want to keep the one land border we have with the eu open... Ooooh lets just point a big arrow that way!!!!!!!!! Except that it is not that easy to get there, because it's an island, and there are checks at ports and airports! Except all European Union citizens have rights of free movement to Ireland. Hence no checks for them. There are checks on EU citizens. If you've ever been on holiday from the UK to Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc then you have to show your passport. This is because the UK is an island and you need to pass through either an airport or a ferry Port. It's the same for Rep. Of Ireland. Yes, but once they show a European union passport, they can automatically enter Ireland and then easily enter the UK given the apparent soft border with No. You can't square the circle. If you want to stop EU citizens entering the UK illegally, you either have to have checks at the NI border with the Republic or checks on anyone entering Britain from the north. " And there will be checks once they head to the ferry/airport in NI. NI don't seem to be bothered about checking them coming over the border, so why should we. They are not bothered because they don't care about the French coming on the ferry from France and then heading to NI. | |||
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" There are checks on EU citizens. If you've ever been on holiday from the UK to Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc then you have to show your passport. This is because the UK is an island and you need to pass through either an airport or a ferry Port. It's the same for Rep. Of Ireland. " You don’t half talk rubbish at times.... You have not been on an internal flight lately have you centy!!! There are no controls Also the reason why UK people show passports to travel in Europe is because we are not part of schengen!!! | |||
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" There are checks on EU citizens. If you've ever been on holiday from the UK to Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc then you have to show your passport. This is because the UK is an island and you need to pass through either an airport or a ferry Port. It's the same for Rep. Of Ireland. You don’t half talk rubbish at times.... You have not been on an internal flight lately have you centy!!! There are no controls Also the reason why UK people show passports to travel in Europe is because we are not part of schengen!!!" I have been on more flights this year than you have been on in your life. And I don't need to be patronised by the likes of you. For your information, you cannot get on any flight, anywhere, without showing ID, because they are worried about terrorism and check who is flying. That is unlikely to change. Ever. Thanks to migrants. It is not like using the bus or train. Try and fly from Newcastle to London with no ID in this country and they will deny you boarding for that reason. The only internal flights that you can go on without ID are private, but even then, they know who you are, because they know who owns the plane, or helicopter, or they know who chartered it. And if you do it often enough, you get to know the staff and the pilot. And you might have to bow to my superior knowledge on that one, because one of us does that, and I suspect you don't! | |||
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"I just find it ironic that those people most ferocious about wanting borders in Northern Ireland are those people living in Leeds or Southampton or Kent or Somerset... or Cannock....when you say you want to listen to locals and you want democracy, but yet when locals say they don’t want it they turn a blind eye And you know if there were the sort of infrastructure projects in England there would be nimbyism going on all over the shop I have no doubt most of you would sell Northern Ireland down the river if it meant your Brexit utopia being fulfilled The fact is that remainers are seeking to weaponise the border issue and using the threat of violence to try to scare people. The border can be easily managed with new technology a number plate recognition camera on top of a pole would be no different to installing a street light. Do you see people in Ireland objecting to street lights being installed on the border? David Davis recently said there are already enough camera sites already in situ (speed cameras and cctv) to effectively monitor the border anyway so new camera sites may not even be needed. Parcels are tracked electronically these days as well. The whole thing is being blown up out of proportion by remoaners to try to frustrate brexit. And it's amazing how the EU want a hard border between NI and Eire, but are critical of Trump when he wants a wall on his border!" Gotta love the Gammon solutions to everything. Simple solutions for simple people. ANPR can tell you what vehicle has been past. But not what was in it, where it is going, how many stops it makes. The only way to do these things are physical stops, just like at the Swiss or Norwegian borders. | |||
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"Oh the bollocks theese brexiteers come up with Get some brains For fucks sake " The very height of remainer intellectualism on display right there.  | |||
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" So any Eu citizen could get a ferry to Ireland, walk or drive over the soft border into NI and thus have full access to the UK, given there will, I assume, be no checks between Britain and NI. So much for regaining control of our borders. I wouldn’t hold your breath because it’s the point none of them will ever answer!!! How do they stop an eu citizens who can legally travel to Ireland then catch a train or coach the north and then catch a ferry or an internal flight to the mainland.... They want borders where it suits them but want to keep the one land border we have with the eu open... Ooooh lets just point a big arrow that way!!!!!!!!! Except that it is not that easy to get there, because it's an island, and there are checks at ports and airports! Except all European Union citizens have rights of free movement to Ireland. Hence no checks for them. There are checks on EU citizens. If you've ever been on holiday from the UK to Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc then you have to show your passport. This is because the UK is an island and you need to pass through either an airport or a ferry Port. It's the same for Rep. Of Ireland. Have you ever driven from France to Italy and been stopped? There are no border checks at all! " Yes I have been stopped twice - maybe because it was a British car? However all border controls can randomly pull someone in for a check. | |||
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" So any Eu citizen could get a ferry to Ireland, walk or drive over the soft border into NI and thus have full access to the UK, given there will, I assume, be no checks between Britain and NI. So much for regaining control of our borders. I wouldn’t hold your breath because it’s the point none of them will ever answer!!! How do they stop an eu citizens who can legally travel to Ireland then catch a train or coach the north and then catch a ferry or an internal flight to the mainland.... They want borders where it suits them but want to keep the one land border we have with the eu open... Ooooh lets just point a big arrow that way!!!!!!!!! Except that it is not that easy to get there, because it's an island, and there are checks at ports and airports! Except all European Union citizens have rights of free movement to Ireland. Hence no checks for them. There are checks on EU citizens. If you've ever been on holiday from the UK to Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc then you have to show your passport. This is because the UK is an island and you need to pass through either an airport or a ferry Port. It's the same for Rep. Of Ireland. Have you ever driven from France to Italy and been stopped? There are no border checks at all! " France and Italy are not islands. That's the point. You can't drive from mainland Europe to Ireland. You either have to pass through an airport or a ferry Port and at an airport or ferry Port you are required to show passports. | |||
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"I just find it ironic that those people most ferocious about wanting borders in Northern Ireland are those people living in Leeds or Southampton or Kent or Somerset... or Cannock....when you say you want to listen to locals and you want democracy, but yet when locals say they don’t want it they turn a blind eye And you know if there were the sort of infrastructure projects in England there would be nimbyism going on all over the shop I have no doubt most of you would sell Northern Ireland down the river if it meant your Brexit utopia being fulfilled Another remoaner makes pointless comments. Well, would you? If Brexit meant NI left the UK, and the only way to keep the United Kingdom together was to say in the EU, which would you chose? It's never going to happen. No matter how much you remoaners fantasise. The UK, including NI is leaving the EU. And as I have said twice previously, there will be no hard border between NI and Eire. And if the EU want one, then I suggest Juncker learns some bricklaying skills and builds it himself. It might, so which would you chose? " No brexiter has the balls to answer! | |||
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" So any Eu citizen could get a ferry to Ireland, walk or drive over the soft border into NI and thus have full access to the UK, given there will, I assume, be no checks between Britain and NI. So much for regaining control of our borders. I wouldn’t hold your breath because it’s the point none of them will ever answer!!! How do they stop an eu citizens who can legally travel to Ireland then catch a train or coach the north and then catch a ferry or an internal flight to the mainland.... They want borders where it suits them but want to keep the one land border we have with the eu open... Ooooh lets just point a big arrow that way!!!!!!!!! Except that it is not that easy to get there, because it's an island, and there are checks at ports and airports! Except all European Union citizens have rights of free movement to Ireland. Hence no checks for them. There are checks on EU citizens. If you've ever been on holiday from the UK to Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc then you have to show your passport. This is because the UK is an island and you need to pass through either an airport or a ferry Port. It's the same for Rep. Of Ireland. Have you ever driven from France to Italy and been stopped? There are no border checks at all! France and Italy are not islands. That's the point. You can't drive from mainland Europe to Ireland. You either have to pass through an airport or a ferry Port and at an airport or ferry Port you are required to show passports. " Oh dear, the point really has gone over your head! | |||
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" There are checks on EU citizens. If you've ever been on holiday from the UK to Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc then you have to show your passport. This is because the UK is an island and you need to pass through either an airport or a ferry Port. It's the same for Rep. Of Ireland. You don’t half talk rubbish at times.... You have not been on an internal flight lately have you centy!!! There are no controls Also the reason why UK people show passports to travel in Europe is because we are not part of schengen!!! I have been on more flights this year than you have been on in your life. And I don't need to be patronised by the likes of you. For your information, you cannot get on any flight, anywhere, without showing ID, because they are worried about terrorism and check who is flying. That is unlikely to change. Ever. Thanks to migrants. It is not like using the bus or train. Try and fly from Newcastle to London with no ID in this country and they will deny you boarding for that reason. The only internal flights that you can go on without ID are private, but even then, they know who you are, because they know who owns the plane, or helicopter, or they know who chartered it. And if you do it often enough, you get to know the staff and the pilot. And you might have to bow to my superior knowledge on that one, because one of us does that, and I suspect you don't! " The purpose of ID on a domestic flight is solely that you are who you say you are on the ticket!! No other reason.... If you are going to challenge someone’s knowledge then I suggest it is not someone who dealt with European train and train ferry packages for a railway company for 10 years.... So don’t bring a knife to a gun fight 
What you are dangerously close to suggesting are border checks on domestic flights and ferries between Northern Ireland and the mainland and if you think people hate the idea in the north.. here is a newsflash for you, they hate that idea even more! | |||
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" There are checks on EU citizens. If you've ever been on holiday from the UK to Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc then you have to show your passport. This is because the UK is an island and you need to pass through either an airport or a ferry Port. It's the same for Rep. Of Ireland. You don’t half talk rubbish at times.... You have not been on an internal flight lately have you centy!!! There are no controls Also the reason why UK people show passports to travel in Europe is because we are not part of schengen!!! I have been on more flights this year than you have been on in your life. And I don't need to be patronised by the likes of you. For your information, you cannot get on any flight, anywhere, without showing ID, because they are worried about terrorism and check who is flying. That is unlikely to change. Ever. Thanks to migrants. It is not like using the bus or train. Try and fly from Newcastle to London with no ID in this country and they will deny you boarding for that reason. The only internal flights that you can go on without ID are private, but even then, they know who you are, because they know who owns the plane, or helicopter, or they know who chartered it. And if you do it often enough, you get to know the staff and the pilot. And you might have to bow to my superior knowledge on that one, because one of us does that, and I suspect you don't! " I flew from Inverness to Birmingham when I didn't have a passport, I showed my photo card driving license. You need ID for internal flights, not a passport. | |||
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" And it's amazing how the EU want a hard border between NI and Eire, but are critical of Trump when he wants a wall on his border!" I dont know where this idea of the EU wanting the border came from but it really shows how uninformed Brexiters are. The EU have said no border, no border checks and no construction of check points. The Tories have advocated the Canada/US border (with checkpoints, customs checks and border) the Sweden/Norway border (same situation) and their own system of border checks. Are Brexiters being wilfully ignorant here? Not to mention that hard Brexiters are the ones who keep saying to leave the EU with no deal and stick with WTO terms. WTO terms would require a border otherwise the UK would be in breach of WTO and face huge fines. The only way to avoid a border is an agreement with the EU. | |||
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" There are checks on EU citizens. If you've ever been on holiday from the UK to Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc then you have to show your passport. This is because the UK is an island and you need to pass through either an airport or a ferry Port. It's the same for Rep. Of Ireland. You don’t half talk rubbish at times.... You have not been on an internal flight lately have you centy!!! There are no controls Also the reason why UK people show passports to travel in Europe is because we are not part of schengen!!! I have been on more flights this year than you have been on in your life. And I don't need to be patronised by the likes of you. For your information, you cannot get on any flight, anywhere, without showing ID, because they are worried about terrorism and check who is flying. That is unlikely to change. Ever. Thanks to migrants. It is not like using the bus or train. Try and fly from Newcastle to London with no ID in this country and they will deny you boarding for that reason. The only internal flights that you can go on without ID are private, but even then, they know who you are, because they know who owns the plane, or helicopter, or they know who chartered it. And if you do it often enough, you get to know the staff and the pilot. And you might have to bow to my superior knowledge on that one, because one of us does that, and I suspect you don't! The purpose of ID on a domestic flight is solely that you are who you say you are on the ticket!! No other reason.... If you are going to challenge someone’s knowledge then I suggest it is not someone who dealt with European train and train ferry packages for a railway company for 10 years.... So don’t bring a knife to a gun fight
What you are dangerously close to suggesting are border checks on domestic flights and ferries between Northern Ireland and the mainland and if you think people hate the idea in the north.. here is a newsflash for you, they hate that idea even more! "Now you seem to be confusing border checks with boarding checks. As pointed out to you even on domestic flights you have to show ID for boarding at an airport or ferry. You just can't swan around the UK or Ireland on flights or ferries without showing some sort of ID which proves you are who you say you are. | |||
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" Now you seem to be confusing border checks with boarding checks. As pointed out to you even on domestic flights you have to show ID for boarding at an airport or ferry. You just can't swan around the UK or Ireland on flights or ferries without showing some sort of ID which proves you are who you say you are. " It proves you are who you say you are but crucially doesnt prove where you have residency or citizenship. So if somone shows up with valid id do you detain anyone who doesnt look English? And with your fantasy of cameras for the border crossing how do you verify whats in a trucks container? | |||
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" There are checks on EU citizens. If you've ever been on holiday from the UK to Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc then you have to show your passport. This is because the UK is an island and you need to pass through either an airport or a ferry Port. It's the same for Rep. Of Ireland. You don’t half talk rubbish at times.... You have not been on an internal flight lately have you centy!!! There are no controls Also the reason why UK people show passports to travel in Europe is because we are not part of schengen!!! I have been on more flights this year than you have been on in your life. And I don't need to be patronised by the likes of you. For your information, you cannot get on any flight, anywhere, without showing ID, because they are worried about terrorism and check who is flying. That is unlikely to change. Ever. Thanks to migrants. It is not like using the bus or train. Try and fly from Newcastle to London with no ID in this country and they will deny you boarding for that reason. The only internal flights that you can go on without ID are private, but even then, they know who you are, because they know who owns the plane, or helicopter, or they know who chartered it. And if you do it often enough, you get to know the staff and the pilot. And you might have to bow to my superior knowledge on that one, because one of us does that, and I suspect you don't! I flew from Inverness to Birmingham when I didn't have a passport, I showed my photo card driving license. You need ID for internal flights, not a passport. " An EU citizen would be required to show either a passport or a European driving licence then. | |||
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" There are checks on EU citizens. If you've ever been on holiday from the UK to Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc then you have to show your passport. This is because the UK is an island and you need to pass through either an airport or a ferry Port. It's the same for Rep. Of Ireland. You don’t half talk rubbish at times.... You have not been on an internal flight lately have you centy!!! There are no controls Also the reason why UK people show passports to travel in Europe is because we are not part of schengen!!! I have been on more flights this year than you have been on in your life. And I don't need to be patronised by the likes of you. For your information, you cannot get on any flight, anywhere, without showing ID, because they are worried about terrorism and check who is flying. That is unlikely to change. Ever. Thanks to migrants. It is not like using the bus or train. Try and fly from Newcastle to London with no ID in this country and they will deny you boarding for that reason. The only internal flights that you can go on without ID are private, but even then, they know who you are, because they know who owns the plane, or helicopter, or they know who chartered it. And if you do it often enough, you get to know the staff and the pilot. And you might have to bow to my superior knowledge on that one, because one of us does that, and I suspect you don't! The purpose of ID on a domestic flight is solely that you are who you say you are on the ticket!! No other reason.... If you are going to challenge someone’s knowledge then I suggest it is not someone who dealt with European train and train ferry packages for a railway company for 10 years.... So don’t bring a knife to a gun fight
What you are dangerously close to suggesting are border checks on domestic flights and ferries between Northern Ireland and the mainland and if you think people hate the idea in the north.. here is a newsflash for you, they hate that idea even more!
Now you seem to be confusing border checks with boarding checks. As pointed out to you even on domestic flights you have to show ID for boarding at an airport or ferry. You just can't swan around the UK or Ireland on flights or ferries without showing some sort of ID which proves you are who you say you are. "So there will be a physical hard border then between NI and the UK, with everyone having a passport or ID checked to see if they will be allowed entry? Not just to see if they can get on the boat/plane. | |||
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" Now you seem to be confusing border checks with boarding checks. As pointed out to you even on domestic flights you have to show ID for boarding at an airport or ferry. You just can't swan around the UK or Ireland on flights or ferries without showing some sort of ID which proves you are who you say you are. It proves you are who you say you are but crucially doesnt prove where you have residency or citizenship. So if somone shows up with valid id do you detain anyone who doesnt look English? And with your fantasy of cameras for the border crossing how do you verify whats in a trucks container?" As I said most parcels are tracked electronically these days and company vehicles also have tracking devices placed on them which can be monitored remotely from a computer using Global positioning systems. A trusted trader scheme has also been suggested between Republic of Ireland companies and UK companies. As a percentage the amount of trade that flows over the land border between Rep. Of Ireland and Northern Ireland is relatively small compared to the amount of trade that passes directly between Republic of Ireland and England/Scotland/Wales. It was quoted by a Northern Ireland born Peer during the EU withdrawal bill debate recently in the House of Lords, less than 10% trade goes over the land border and over 90% of trade goes directly between Republic of Ireland and England/Wales/Scotland. | |||
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" There are checks on EU citizens. If you've ever been on holiday from the UK to Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc then you have to show your passport. This is because the UK is an island and you need to pass through either an airport or a ferry Port. It's the same for Rep. Of Ireland. You don’t half talk rubbish at times.... You have not been on an internal flight lately have you centy!!! There are no controls Also the reason why UK people show passports to travel in Europe is because we are not part of schengen!!! I have been on more flights this year than you have been on in your life. And I don't need to be patronised by the likes of you. For your information, you cannot get on any flight, anywhere, without showing ID, because they are worried about terrorism and check who is flying. That is unlikely to change. Ever. Thanks to migrants. It is not like using the bus or train. Try and fly from Newcastle to London with no ID in this country and they will deny you boarding for that reason. The only internal flights that you can go on without ID are private, but even then, they know who you are, because they know who owns the plane, or helicopter, or they know who chartered it. And if you do it often enough, you get to know the staff and the pilot. And you might have to bow to my superior knowledge on that one, because one of us does that, and I suspect you don't! The purpose of ID on a domestic flight is solely that you are who you say you are on the ticket!! No other reason.... If you are going to challenge someone’s knowledge then I suggest it is not someone who dealt with European train and train ferry packages for a railway company for 10 years.... So don’t bring a knife to a gun fight
What you are dangerously close to suggesting are border checks on domestic flights and ferries between Northern Ireland and the mainland and if you think people hate the idea in the north.. here is a newsflash for you, they hate that idea even more!
Now you seem to be confusing border checks with boarding checks. As pointed out to you even on domestic flights you have to show ID for boarding at an airport or ferry. You just can't swan around the UK or Ireland on flights or ferries without showing some sort of ID which proves you are who you say you are.
So there will be a physical hard border then between NI and the UK, with everyone having a passport or ID checked to see if they will be allowed entry? Not just to see if they can get on the boat/plane. "It already happens now boarding a plane or a ferry!  | |||
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" There are checks on EU citizens. If you've ever been on holiday from the UK to Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc then you have to show your passport. This is because the UK is an island and you need to pass through either an airport or a ferry Port. It's the same for Rep. Of Ireland. You don’t half talk rubbish at times.... You have not been on an internal flight lately have you centy!!! There are no controls Also the reason why UK people show passports to travel in Europe is because we are not part of schengen!!!" Republic of Ireland are not part of Shengen either Fabio! !! Come on this is very basic stuff. | |||
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" There are checks on EU citizens. If you've ever been on holiday from the UK to Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc then you have to show your passport. This is because the UK is an island and you need to pass through either an airport or a ferry Port. It's the same for Rep. Of Ireland. You don’t half talk rubbish at times.... You have not been on an internal flight lately have you centy!!! There are no controls Also the reason why UK people show passports to travel in Europe is because we are not part of schengen!!! I have been on more flights this year than you have been on in your life. And I don't need to be patronised by the likes of you. For your information, you cannot get on any flight, anywhere, without showing ID, because they are worried about terrorism and check who is flying. That is unlikely to change. Ever. Thanks to migrants. It is not like using the bus or train. Try and fly from Newcastle to London with no ID in this country and they will deny you boarding for that reason. The only internal flights that you can go on without ID are private, but even then, they know who you are, because they know who owns the plane, or helicopter, or they know who chartered it. And if you do it often enough, you get to know the staff and the pilot. And you might have to bow to my superior knowledge on that one, because one of us does that, and I suspect you don't! The purpose of ID on a domestic flight is solely that you are who you say you are on the ticket!! No other reason.... If you are going to challenge someone’s knowledge then I suggest it is not someone who dealt with European train and train ferry packages for a railway company for 10 years.... So don’t bring a knife to a gun fight
What you are dangerously close to suggesting are border checks on domestic flights and ferries between Northern Ireland and the mainland and if you think people hate the idea in the north.. here is a newsflash for you, they hate that idea even more!
Now you seem to be confusing border checks with boarding checks. As pointed out to you even on domestic flights you have to show ID for boarding at an airport or ferry. You just can't swan around the UK or Ireland on flights or ferries without showing some sort of ID which proves you are who you say you are.
So there will be a physical hard border then between NI and the UK, with everyone having a passport or ID checked to see if they will be allowed entry? Not just to see if they can get on the boat/plane.
It already happens now boarding a plane or a ferry! "No, as you said earlier there are boarder checks between NI and RUK to make sure the person traveling is the one on the ticket. Not to check if they are eligible to travel to RUK. | |||
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" Now you seem to be confusing border checks with boarding checks. As pointed out to you even on domestic flights you have to show ID for boarding at an airport or ferry. You just can't swan around the UK or Ireland on flights or ferries without showing some sort of ID which proves you are who you say you are. It proves you are who you say you are but crucially doesnt prove where you have residency or citizenship. So if somone shows up with valid id do you detain anyone who doesnt look English? And with your fantasy of cameras for the border crossing how do you verify whats in a trucks container? As I said most parcels are tracked electronically these days and company vehicles also have tracking devices placed on them which can be monitored remotely from a computer using Global positioning systems. A trusted trader scheme has also been suggested between Republic of Ireland companies and UK companies. As a percentage the amount of trade that flows over the land border between Rep. Of Ireland and Northern Ireland is relatively small compared to the amount of trade that passes directly between Republic of Ireland and England/Scotland/Wales. It was quoted by a Northern Ireland born Peer during the EU withdrawal bill debate recently in the House of Lords, less than 10% trade goes over the land border and over 90% of trade goes directly between Republic of Ireland and England/Wales/Scotland. " Would you be happy for this arrangement to be the same for cargo from Afghanistan, Columbia, Nigeria, China etc? | |||
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" Now you seem to be confusing border checks with boarding checks. As pointed out to you even on domestic flights you have to show ID for boarding at an airport or ferry. You just can't swan around the UK or Ireland on flights or ferries without showing some sort of ID which proves you are who you say you are. It proves you are who you say you are but crucially doesnt prove where you have residency or citizenship. So if somone shows up with valid id do you detain anyone who doesnt look English? And with your fantasy of cameras for the border crossing how do you verify whats in a trucks container? As I said most parcels are tracked electronically these days and company vehicles also have tracking devices placed on them which can be monitored remotely from a computer using Global positioning systems. A trusted trader scheme has also been suggested between Republic of Ireland companies and UK companies. As a percentage the amount of trade that flows over the land border between Rep. Of Ireland and Northern Ireland is relatively small compared to the amount of trade that passes directly between Republic of Ireland and England/Scotland/Wales. It was quoted by a Northern Ireland born Peer during the EU withdrawal bill debate recently in the House of Lords, less than 10% trade goes over the land border and over 90% of trade goes directly between Republic of Ireland and England/Wales/Scotland. Would you be happy for this arrangement to be the same for cargo from Afghanistan, Columbia, Nigeria, China etc? " Are Afghanistan, Colombia, Nigeria, China, etc part of the good Friday agreement??? No they are not, Ireland is a unique situation that requires a unique solution because of the good Friday agreement. | |||
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" Republic of Ireland are not part of Shengen either Fabio! !! Come on this is very basic stuff. " Which means Irish people also need passports to travel across Europe! And Eu citizens need a passport to get into Ireland.... Which brings us back to the original question! How are going to stop Eu citizens travelling through the south to the north and then to the mainland without a border check somewhere???? You so haven’t thought this through..... | |||
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" Now you seem to be confusing border checks with boarding checks. As pointed out to you even on domestic flights you have to show ID for boarding at an airport or ferry. You just can't swan around the UK or Ireland on flights or ferries without showing some sort of ID which proves you are who you say you are. It proves you are who you say you are but crucially doesnt prove where you have residency or citizenship. So if somone shows up with valid id do you detain anyone who doesnt look English? And with your fantasy of cameras for the border crossing how do you verify whats in a trucks container? As I said most parcels are tracked electronically these days and company vehicles also have tracking devices placed on them which can be monitored remotely from a computer using Global positioning systems. A trusted trader scheme has also been suggested between Republic of Ireland companies and UK companies. As a percentage the amount of trade that flows over the land border between Rep. Of Ireland and Northern Ireland is relatively small compared to the amount of trade that passes directly between Republic of Ireland and England/Scotland/Wales. It was quoted by a Northern Ireland born Peer during the EU withdrawal bill debate recently in the House of Lords, less than 10% trade goes over the land border and over 90% of trade goes directly between Republic of Ireland and England/Wales/Scotland. Would you be happy for this arrangement to be the same for cargo from Afghanistan, Columbia, Nigeria, China etc? Are Afghanistan, Colombia, Nigeria, China, etc part of the good Friday agreement??? No they are not, Ireland is a unique situation that requires a unique solution because of the good Friday agreement. " So are you happy for goods from those countries to land at Irish ports, and then flow across the border without any checks? | |||
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" Republic of Ireland are not part of Shengen either Fabio! !! Come on this is very basic stuff. Which means Irish people also need passports to travel across Europe! And Eu citizens need a passport to get into Ireland.... Which brings us back to the original question! How are going to stop Eu citizens travelling through the south to the north and then to the mainland without a border check somewhere???? You so haven’t thought this through....." To get into Southern Ireland in the first instance they will be required to show passport as Republic of Ireland are not in the Schengen. The island of Ireland requires a plane or ferry journey to get to it so requires a passport check at any airport or ferry Port. They will only be able to drive freely over the land border between Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. Border check will be the boarding check where you are already required to show ID (passport or driving licence) when boarding a domestic plane or a ferry from Northern Ireland to mainland UK (England/Wales/Scotland). Anyone coming from Northern Ireland to mainland UK in a plane or ferry already has to show ID, which has now been pointed out to you several times on the thread. | |||
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" Now you seem to be confusing border checks with boarding checks. As pointed out to you even on domestic flights you have to show ID for boarding at an airport or ferry. You just can't swan around the UK or Ireland on flights or ferries without showing some sort of ID which proves you are who you say you are. It proves you are who you say you are but crucially doesnt prove where you have residency or citizenship. So if somone shows up with valid id do you detain anyone who doesnt look English? And with your fantasy of cameras for the border crossing how do you verify whats in a trucks container? As I said most parcels are tracked electronically these days and company vehicles also have tracking devices placed on them which can be monitored remotely from a computer using Global positioning systems. A trusted trader scheme has also been suggested between Republic of Ireland companies and UK companies. As a percentage the amount of trade that flows over the land border between Rep. Of Ireland and Northern Ireland is relatively small compared to the amount of trade that passes directly between Republic of Ireland and England/Scotland/Wales. It was quoted by a Northern Ireland born Peer during the EU withdrawal bill debate recently in the House of Lords, less than 10% trade goes over the land border and over 90% of trade goes directly between Republic of Ireland and England/Wales/Scotland. " No ones worried about parcels sent in the post. And nothing you said addresses any of the issues. Youve said the trade is less than between the Republic and the UK as if thats relevant. How will anyone be sure what goods are travelling over the border without border checks? And how will you stop EU citizens travelling into Northern Ireland? Because trusted trader wont cover everyone and neither will GPS. And even if GPS was an option (its not because it wouldnt work) how much money would that cost Northern Irish business and are you really suggesting that the government track peoples movement like that? The only workable suggestion so far is regulatory alignment. Its the only solution that means no border checks. | |||
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" Now you seem to be confusing border checks with boarding checks. As pointed out to you even on domestic flights you have to show ID for boarding at an airport or ferry. You just can't swan around the UK or Ireland on flights or ferries without showing some sort of ID which proves you are who you say you are. It proves you are who you say you are but crucially doesnt prove where you have residency or citizenship. So if somone shows up with valid id do you detain anyone who doesnt look English? And with your fantasy of cameras for the border crossing how do you verify whats in a trucks container? As I said most parcels are tracked electronically these days and company vehicles also have tracking devices placed on them which can be monitored remotely from a computer using Global positioning systems. A trusted trader scheme has also been suggested between Republic of Ireland companies and UK companies. As a percentage the amount of trade that flows over the land border between Rep. Of Ireland and Northern Ireland is relatively small compared to the amount of trade that passes directly between Republic of Ireland and England/Scotland/Wales. It was quoted by a Northern Ireland born Peer during the EU withdrawal bill debate recently in the House of Lords, less than 10% trade goes over the land border and over 90% of trade goes directly between Republic of Ireland and England/Wales/Scotland. No ones worried about parcels sent in the post. And nothing you said addresses any of the issues. Youve said the trade is less than between the Republic and the UK as if thats relevant. How will anyone be sure what goods are travelling over the border without border checks? And how will you stop EU citizens travelling into Northern Ireland? Because trusted trader wont cover everyone and neither will GPS. And even if GPS was an option (its not because it wouldnt work) how much money would that cost Northern Irish business and are you really suggesting that the government track peoples movement like that? The only workable suggestion so far is regulatory alignment. Its the only solution that means no border checks." Centaur's solution, not border checks, but the government is gonna put a GPS tracker on everyone's car and a webcam in their boot! Who needs civil rights when you can have Brexit! | |||
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" Now you seem to be confusing border checks with boarding checks. As pointed out to you even on domestic flights you have to show ID for boarding at an airport or ferry. You just can't swan around the UK or Ireland on flights or ferries without showing some sort of ID which proves you are who you say you are. It proves you are who you say you are but crucially doesnt prove where you have residency or citizenship. So if somone shows up with valid id do you detain anyone who doesnt look English? And with your fantasy of cameras for the border crossing how do you verify whats in a trucks container? As I said most parcels are tracked electronically these days and company vehicles also have tracking devices placed on them which can be monitored remotely from a computer using Global positioning systems. A trusted trader scheme has also been suggested between Republic of Ireland companies and UK companies. As a percentage the amount of trade that flows over the land border between Rep. Of Ireland and Northern Ireland is relatively small compared to the amount of trade that passes directly between Republic of Ireland and England/Scotland/Wales. It was quoted by a Northern Ireland born Peer during the EU withdrawal bill debate recently in the House of Lords, less than 10% trade goes over the land border and over 90% of trade goes directly between Republic of Ireland and England/Wales/Scotland. No ones worried about parcels sent in the post. And nothing you said addresses any of the issues. Youve said the trade is less than between the Republic and the UK as if thats relevant. How will anyone be sure what goods are travelling over the border without border checks? And how will you stop EU citizens travelling into Northern Ireland? Because trusted trader wont cover everyone and neither will GPS. And even if GPS was an option (its not because it wouldnt work) how much money would that cost Northern Irish business and are you really suggesting that the government track peoples movement like that? The only workable suggestion so far is regulatory alignment. Its the only solution that means no border checks." The company I work for has tracking devices on its vehicles. The people working in the office know where any company vehicle is at any given time from the simple click of a button on their computer. History of vehicles movements are logged. Can even be linked to smartphones, the technology is already in use and is relatively cheap. The government already tracks people's movements, you must be Incredibly naive if you think they don't. The UK is one of the most heavily monitored countries in the world for cctv coverage. The number plate recognition technology is also already in place for the London congestion charge and has been working well for years. It's no huge stretch to extend these types of technologies to trusted trader schemes for frictionless border in Ireland. | |||
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" Now you seem to be confusing border checks with boarding checks. As pointed out to you even on domestic flights you have to show ID for boarding at an airport or ferry. You just can't swan around the UK or Ireland on flights or ferries without showing some sort of ID which proves you are who you say you are. It proves you are who you say you are but crucially doesnt prove where you have residency or citizenship. So if somone shows up with valid id do you detain anyone who doesnt look English? And with your fantasy of cameras for the border crossing how do you verify whats in a trucks container? As I said most parcels are tracked electronically these days and company vehicles also have tracking devices placed on them which can be monitored remotely from a computer using Global positioning systems. A trusted trader scheme has also been suggested between Republic of Ireland companies and UK companies. As a percentage the amount of trade that flows over the land border between Rep. Of Ireland and Northern Ireland is relatively small compared to the amount of trade that passes directly between Republic of Ireland and England/Scotland/Wales. It was quoted by a Northern Ireland born Peer during the EU withdrawal bill debate recently in the House of Lords, less than 10% trade goes over the land border and over 90% of trade goes directly between Republic of Ireland and England/Wales/Scotland. No ones worried about parcels sent in the post. And nothing you said addresses any of the issues. Youve said the trade is less than between the Republic and the UK as if thats relevant. How will anyone be sure what goods are travelling over the border without border checks? And how will you stop EU citizens travelling into Northern Ireland? Because trusted trader wont cover everyone and neither will GPS. And even if GPS was an option (its not because it wouldnt work) how much money would that cost Northern Irish business and are you really suggesting that the government track peoples movement like that? The only workable suggestion so far is regulatory alignment. Its the only solution that means no border checks. Centaur's solution, not border checks, but the government is gonna put a GPS tracker on everyone's car and a webcam in their boot! Who needs civil rights when you can have Brexit! "Misquoting me again, that's twice on 2 separate threads today, are you going for a hat trick?
GPS trackers would go on company vehicles specifically haulage companies and heavy goods vehicles in trusted trader schemes. As for Web cams in people's car boots then do you carry a mobile phone? You do realise the police already track people from using their mobile phone details, every smartphone has a GPS in it and the technology has already been used to solve crimes and to find missing people. If you carry a mobile phone around then your whereabouts can be monitored and tracked.
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" Now you seem to be confusing border checks with boarding checks. As pointed out to you even on domestic flights you have to show ID for boarding at an airport or ferry. You just can't swan around the UK or Ireland on flights or ferries without showing some sort of ID which proves you are who you say you are. It proves you are who you say you are but crucially doesnt prove where you have residency or citizenship. So if somone shows up with valid id do you detain anyone who doesnt look English? And with your fantasy of cameras for the border crossing how do you verify whats in a trucks container? As I said most parcels are tracked electronically these days and company vehicles also have tracking devices placed on them which can be monitored remotely from a computer using Global positioning systems. A trusted trader scheme has also been suggested between Republic of Ireland companies and UK companies. As a percentage the amount of trade that flows over the land border between Rep. Of Ireland and Northern Ireland is relatively small compared to the amount of trade that passes directly between Republic of Ireland and England/Scotland/Wales. It was quoted by a Northern Ireland born Peer during the EU withdrawal bill debate recently in the House of Lords, less than 10% trade goes over the land border and over 90% of trade goes directly between Republic of Ireland and England/Wales/Scotland. No ones worried about parcels sent in the post. And nothing you said addresses any of the issues. Youve said the trade is less than between the Republic and the UK as if thats relevant. How will anyone be sure what goods are travelling over the border without border checks? And how will you stop EU citizens travelling into Northern Ireland? Because trusted trader wont cover everyone and neither will GPS. And even if GPS was an option (its not because it wouldnt work) how much money would that cost Northern Irish business and are you really suggesting that the government track peoples movement like that? The only workable suggestion so far is regulatory alignment. Its the only solution that means no border checks. Centaur's solution, not border checks, but the government is gonna put a GPS tracker on everyone's car and a webcam in their boot! Who needs civil rights when you can have Brexit!
Misquoting me again, that's twice on 2 separate threads today, are you going for a hat trick?
GPS trackers would go on company vehicles specifically haulage companies and heavy goods vehicles in trusted trader schemes. As for Web cams in people's car boots then do you carry a mobile phone? You do realise the police already track people from using their mobile phone details, every smartphone has a GPS in it and the technology has already been used to solve crimes and to find missing people. If you carry a mobile phone around then your whereabouts can be monitored and tracked.
"No surprise there. "Right winger happy about more surveillance" is not exactly a surprising headline. Just waiting for compulsory ID cards to raise their ugly heads again. | |||
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" Now you seem to be confusing border checks with boarding checks. As pointed out to you even on domestic flights you have to show ID for boarding at an airport or ferry. You just can't swan around the UK or Ireland on flights or ferries without showing some sort of ID which proves you are who you say you are. It proves you are who you say you are but crucially doesnt prove where you have residency or citizenship. So if somone shows up with valid id do you detain anyone who doesnt look English? And with your fantasy of cameras for the border crossing how do you verify whats in a trucks container? As I said most parcels are tracked electronically these days and company vehicles also have tracking devices placed on them which can be monitored remotely from a computer using Global positioning systems. A trusted trader scheme has also been suggested between Republic of Ireland companies and UK companies. As a percentage the amount of trade that flows over the land border between Rep. Of Ireland and Northern Ireland is relatively small compared to the amount of trade that passes directly between Republic of Ireland and England/Scotland/Wales. It was quoted by a Northern Ireland born Peer during the EU withdrawal bill debate recently in the House of Lords, less than 10% trade goes over the land border and over 90% of trade goes directly between Republic of Ireland and England/Wales/Scotland. No ones worried about parcels sent in the post. And nothing you said addresses any of the issues. Youve said the trade is less than between the Republic and the UK as if thats relevant. How will anyone be sure what goods are travelling over the border without border checks? And how will you stop EU citizens travelling into Northern Ireland? Because trusted trader wont cover everyone and neither will GPS. And even if GPS was an option (its not because it wouldnt work) how much money would that cost Northern Irish business and are you really suggesting that the government track peoples movement like that? The only workable suggestion so far is regulatory alignment. Its the only solution that means no border checks. Centaur's solution, not border checks, but the government is gonna put a GPS tracker on everyone's car and a webcam in their boot! Who needs civil rights when you can have Brexit!
Misquoting me again, that's twice on 2 separate threads today, are you going for a hat trick?
GPS trackers would go on company vehicles specifically haulage companies and heavy goods vehicles in trusted trader schemes. As for Web cams in people's car boots then do you carry a mobile phone? You do realise the police already track people from using their mobile phone details, every smartphone has a GPS in it and the technology has already been used to solve crimes and to find missing people. If you carry a mobile phone around then your whereabouts can be monitored and tracked.
"Oh dear oh dear, no quotation marks, it wasn't intended as a direct quote, it was a slightly hyperbolic summation of what you had said. I'm gonna guess that the company you worked for that tracked their vehicles wouldn't be too keen on sharing that data, for example with the government! The government do not routinely monitor the movement of every citizen every minute of the day. | |||
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" Now you seem to be confusing border checks with boarding checks. As pointed out to you even on domestic flights you have to show ID for boarding at an airport or ferry. You just can't swan around the UK or Ireland on flights or ferries without showing some sort of ID which proves you are who you say you are. It proves you are who you say you are but crucially doesnt prove where you have residency or citizenship. So if somone shows up with valid id do you detain anyone who doesnt look English? And with your fantasy of cameras for the border crossing how do you verify whats in a trucks container? As I said most parcels are tracked electronically these days and company vehicles also have tracking devices placed on them which can be monitored remotely from a computer using Global positioning systems. A trusted trader scheme has also been suggested between Republic of Ireland companies and UK companies. As a percentage the amount of trade that flows over the land border between Rep. Of Ireland and Northern Ireland is relatively small compared to the amount of trade that passes directly between Republic of Ireland and England/Scotland/Wales. It was quoted by a Northern Ireland born Peer during the EU withdrawal bill debate recently in the House of Lords, less than 10% trade goes over the land border and over 90% of trade goes directly between Republic of Ireland and England/Wales/Scotland. No ones worried about parcels sent in the post. And nothing you said addresses any of the issues. Youve said the trade is less than between the Republic and the UK as if thats relevant. How will anyone be sure what goods are travelling over the border without border checks? And how will you stop EU citizens travelling into Northern Ireland? Because trusted trader wont cover everyone and neither will GPS. And even if GPS was an option (its not because it wouldnt work) how much money would that cost Northern Irish business and are you really suggesting that the government track peoples movement like that? The only workable suggestion so far is regulatory alignment. Its the only solution that means no border checks. Centaur's solution, not border checks, but the government is gonna put a GPS tracker on everyone's car and a webcam in their boot! Who needs civil rights when you can have Brexit!
Misquoting me again, that's twice on 2 separate threads today, are you going for a hat trick?
GPS trackers would go on company vehicles specifically haulage companies and heavy goods vehicles in trusted trader schemes. As for Web cams in people's car boots then do you carry a mobile phone? You do realise the police already track people from using their mobile phone details, every smartphone has a GPS in it and the technology has already been used to solve crimes and to find missing people. If you carry a mobile phone around then your whereabouts can be monitored and tracked.
Oh dear oh dear, no quotation marks, it wasn't intended as a direct quote, it was a slightly hyperbolic summation of what you had said.
I'm gonna guess that the company you worked for that tracked their vehicles wouldn't be too keen on sharing that data, for example with the government!
The government do not routinely monitor the movement of every citizen every minute of the day. "Any reputable company is hardly going to be too concerned about sharing information from trackers with the government . Assuming all the relevant legislation is being adhered too there is nothing to lose and by bring co operative it leaves more time for the government to track and investigate rogue companies and drive them out of business. | |||
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" Now you seem to be confusing border checks with boarding checks. As pointed out to you even on domestic flights you have to show ID for boarding at an airport or ferry. You just can't swan around the UK or Ireland on flights or ferries without showing some sort of ID which proves you are who you say you are. It proves you are who you say you are but crucially doesnt prove where you have residency or citizenship. So if somone shows up with valid id do you detain anyone who doesnt look English? And with your fantasy of cameras for the border crossing how do you verify whats in a trucks container? As I said most parcels are tracked electronically these days and company vehicles also have tracking devices placed on them which can be monitored remotely from a computer using Global positioning systems. A trusted trader scheme has also been suggested between Republic of Ireland companies and UK companies. As a percentage the amount of trade that flows over the land border between Rep. Of Ireland and Northern Ireland is relatively small compared to the amount of trade that passes directly between Republic of Ireland and England/Scotland/Wales. It was quoted by a Northern Ireland born Peer during the EU withdrawal bill debate recently in the House of Lords, less than 10% trade goes over the land border and over 90% of trade goes directly between Republic of Ireland and England/Wales/Scotland. No ones worried about parcels sent in the post. And nothing you said addresses any of the issues. Youve said the trade is less than between the Republic and the UK as if thats relevant. How will anyone be sure what goods are travelling over the border without border checks? And how will you stop EU citizens travelling into Northern Ireland? Because trusted trader wont cover everyone and neither will GPS. And even if GPS was an option (its not because it wouldnt work) how much money would that cost Northern Irish business and are you really suggesting that the government track peoples movement like that? The only workable suggestion so far is regulatory alignment. Its the only solution that means no border checks. Centaur's solution, not border checks, but the government is gonna put a GPS tracker on everyone's car and a webcam in their boot! Who needs civil rights when you can have Brexit!
Misquoting me again, that's twice on 2 separate threads today, are you going for a hat trick?
GPS trackers would go on company vehicles specifically haulage companies and heavy goods vehicles in trusted trader schemes. As for Web cams in people's car boots then do you carry a mobile phone? You do realise the police already track people from using their mobile phone details, every smartphone has a GPS in it and the technology has already been used to solve crimes and to find missing people. If you carry a mobile phone around then your whereabouts can be monitored and tracked.
Oh dear oh dear, no quotation marks, it wasn't intended as a direct quote, it was a slightly hyperbolic summation of what you had said.
I'm gonna guess that the company you worked for that tracked their vehicles wouldn't be too keen on sharing that data, for example with the government!
The government do not routinely monitor the movement of every citizen every minute of the day. Any reputable company is hardly going to be too concerned about sharing information from trackers with the government . Assuming all the relevant legislation is being adhered too there is nothing to lose and by bring co operative it leaves more time for the government to track and investigate rogue companies and drive them out of business. "Have you asked any reputable companies about that? If they are willing to fork out the costs for the technology? And will this technology be up, running and installed in every vehicle by next March? With the relevant systems for monitoring the data at HMRC from the trackers, or interpreting it for tax purposes? | |||
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"I just find it ironic that those people most ferocious about wanting borders in Northern Ireland are those people living in Leeds or Southampton or Kent or Somerset... or Cannock....when you say you want to listen to locals and you want democracy, but yet when locals say they don’t want it they turn a blind eye And you know if there were the sort of infrastructure projects in England there would be nimbyism going on all over the shop I have no doubt most of you would sell Northern Ireland down the river if it meant your Brexit utopia being fulfilled Another remoaner makes pointless comments. Well, would you? If Brexit meant NI left the UK, and the only way to keep the United Kingdom together was to say in the EU, which would you chose? It's never going to happen. No matter how much you remoaners fantasise. The UK, including NI is leaving the EU. And as I have said twice previously, there will be no hard border between NI and Eire. And if the EU want one, then I suggest Juncker learns some bricklaying skills and builds it himself." Junker doesn’t want the border. We do. Remember? Take back control of our borders. Wasn’t that what all you leave voters (the non racist ones) voted for? -Matt | |||
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" Now you seem to be confusing border checks with boarding checks. As pointed out to you even on domestic flights you have to show ID for boarding at an airport or ferry. You just can't swan around the UK or Ireland on flights or ferries without showing some sort of ID which proves you are who you say you are. It proves you are who you say you are but crucially doesnt prove where you have residency or citizenship. So if somone shows up with valid id do you detain anyone who doesnt look English? And with your fantasy of cameras for the border crossing how do you verify whats in a trucks container? As I said most parcels are tracked electronically these days and company vehicles also have tracking devices placed on them which can be monitored remotely from a computer using Global positioning systems. A trusted trader scheme has also been suggested between Republic of Ireland companies and UK companies. As a percentage the amount of trade that flows over the land border between Rep. Of Ireland and Northern Ireland is relatively small compared to the amount of trade that passes directly between Republic of Ireland and England/Scotland/Wales. It was quoted by a Northern Ireland born Peer during the EU withdrawal bill debate recently in the House of Lords, less than 10% trade goes over the land border and over 90% of trade goes directly between Republic of Ireland and England/Wales/Scotland. No ones worried about parcels sent in the post. And nothing you said addresses any of the issues. Youve said the trade is less than between the Republic and the UK as if thats relevant. How will anyone be sure what goods are travelling over the border without border checks? And how will you stop EU citizens travelling into Northern Ireland? Because trusted trader wont cover everyone and neither will GPS. And even if GPS was an option (its not because it wouldnt work) how much money would that cost Northern Irish business and are you really suggesting that the government track peoples movement like that? The only workable suggestion so far is regulatory alignment. Its the only solution that means no border checks. Centaur's solution, not border checks, but the government is gonna put a GPS tracker on everyone's car and a webcam in their boot! Who needs civil rights when you can have Brexit!
Misquoting me again, that's twice on 2 separate threads today, are you going for a hat trick?
GPS trackers would go on company vehicles specifically haulage companies and heavy goods vehicles in trusted trader schemes. As for Web cams in people's car boots then do you carry a mobile phone? You do realise the police already track people from using their mobile phone details, every smartphone has a GPS in it and the technology has already been used to solve crimes and to find missing people. If you carry a mobile phone around then your whereabouts can be monitored and tracked.
Oh dear oh dear, no quotation marks, it wasn't intended as a direct quote, it was a slightly hyperbolic summation of what you had said.
I'm gonna guess that the company you worked for that tracked their vehicles wouldn't be too keen on sharing that data, for example with the government!
The government do not routinely monitor the movement of every citizen every minute of the day. Any reputable company is hardly going to be too concerned about sharing information from trackers with the government . Assuming all the relevant legislation is being adhered too there is nothing to lose and by bring co operative it leaves more time for the government to track and investigate rogue companies and drive them out of business.
Have you asked any reputable companies about that? If they are willing to fork out the costs for the technology? And will this technology be up, running and installed in every vehicle by next March? With the relevant systems for monitoring the data at HMRC from the trackers, or interpreting it for tax purposes?
"I am confident that any company faced with the choice of border controls or use of technology would opt for the latter. Cameras are already in place to detect smuggling across the border in Ireland as smugglers seek to capitalise on differing excuse and Vat rates prevailing in the North and the Republic. The previous Irish Taoiseach Edna Kenny committed his administration to intensive collaboration with HMRC to develop such a technological way to meet the requirements of an invisible border . The current Taoiseach when elected instantly abandoned these discussions and cut similar lines of communication between Dublin and the office of Arlene Foster . | |||
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" There are checks on EU citizens. If you've ever been on holiday from the UK to Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc then you have to show your passport. This is because the UK is an island and you need to pass through either an airport or a ferry Port. It's the same for Rep. Of Ireland. You don’t half talk rubbish at times.... You have not been on an internal flight lately have you centy!!! There are no controls Also the reason why UK people show passports to travel in Europe is because we are not part of schengen!!! I have been on more flights this year than you have been on in your life. And I don't need to be patronised by the likes of you. For your information, you cannot get on any flight, anywhere, without showing ID, because they are worried about terrorism and check who is flying. That is unlikely to change. Ever. Thanks to migrants. It is not like using the bus or train. Try and fly from Newcastle to London with no ID in this country and they will deny you boarding for that reason. The only internal flights that you can go on without ID are private, but even then, they know who you are, because they know who owns the plane, or helicopter, or they know who chartered it. And if you do it often enough, you get to know the staff and the pilot. And you might have to bow to my superior knowledge on that one, because one of us does that, and I suspect you don't! The purpose of ID on a domestic flight is solely that you are who you say you are on the ticket!! No other reason.... If you are going to challenge someone’s knowledge then I suggest it is not someone who dealt with European train and train ferry packages for a railway company for 10 years.... So don’t bring a knife to a gun fight
What you are dangerously close to suggesting are border checks on domestic flights and ferries between Northern Ireland and the mainland and if you think people hate the idea in the north.. here is a newsflash for you, they hate that idea even more!
Now you seem to be confusing border checks with boarding checks. As pointed out to you even on domestic flights you have to show ID for boarding at an airport or ferry. You just can't swan around the UK or Ireland on flights or ferries without showing some sort of ID which proves you are who you say you are.
So there will be a physical hard border then between NI and the UK, with everyone having a passport or ID checked to see if they will be allowed entry? Not just to see if they can get on the boat/plane.
It already happens now boarding a plane or a ferry! "No it doesn’t. There is no customs/passport control if you fly from NI to the mainland U.K. -Matt | |||
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"Funny how people (ok, Brexiteers) don't seem to care about EU nationals being able to cross into NI from the ROI (and stay there - not everyone would want/have to cross over to the rest of the UK). What happens when after a few years NI becomes abused and no longer being able to sustain/tolerate an (effectively) open border with the ROI? But, I suppose, that's another can kicked down the road, as long as Brexit happens (and as long as the rest of the UK doesn't have to worry about the future problems created for NI itself - shows how much we value each other). In addition, and with regards to the "max fac", trustworthy companies may have "untrustworthy" employees. Money talks these days and, in many cases, it shouts. Need I say more? Lastly, Brexiteers moan about the EU wanting/not wanting a hard border between NI and ROI. If/when they say they do, we go up in arms and ask them to come build it themselves. If/when they say they don't, they are ignored and are still asked to come build it themselves! "However Northern Ireland is a small country and is a tight knit community . An illegal immigrant would find it a lot more difficult to blend in and to date immigration has never been an issue. In any event if crossing the border you will have already been through customs controls either at the point of entry to England, Scotland or Wales . The trusted traders would be vetting their employees to ensure that they only employer reputable drivers . They are hardly going to risk having their vehicles seized by failing to do background checks on drivers . Any company currently on a green light with VOSA will do all they can to protect this status. | |||
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"Funny how people (ok, Brexiteers) don't seem to care about EU nationals being able to cross into NI from the ROI (and stay there - not everyone would want/have to cross over to the rest of the UK). What happens when after a few years NI becomes abused and no longer being able to sustain/tolerate an (effectively) open border with the ROI? But, I suppose, that's another can kicked down the road, as long as Brexit happens (and as long as the rest of the UK doesn't have to worry about the future problems created for NI itself - shows how much we value each other). In addition, and with regards to the "max fac", trustworthy companies may have "untrustworthy" employees. Money talks these days and, in many cases, it shouts. Need I say more? Lastly, Brexiteers moan about the EU wanting/not wanting a hard border between NI and ROI. If/when they say they do, we go up in arms and ask them to come build it themselves. If/when they say they don't, they are ignored and are still asked to come build it themselves! However Northern Ireland is a small country and is a tight knit community . An illegal immigrant would find it a lot more difficult to blend in and to date immigration has never been an issue. In any event if crossing the border you will have already been through customs controls either at the point of entry to England, Scotland or Wales .
The trusted traders would be vetting their employees to ensure that they only employer reputable drivers . They are hardly going to risk having their vehicles seized by failing to do background checks on drivers .
Any company currently on a green light with VOSA will do all they can to protect this status. "Well this is true the darkies and swarthy looking types will stand out like a sore thumb and are easy to round up and through in a detention centre its the white foreigners that will blend in until they open their mouths.You've not thought your xenophobic reasoning through now have you.? | |||
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"Funny how people (ok, Brexiteers) don't seem to care about EU nationals being able to cross into NI from the ROI (and stay there - not everyone would want/have to cross over to the rest of the UK). What happens when after a few years NI becomes abused and no longer being able to sustain/tolerate an (effectively) open border with the ROI? But, I suppose, that's another can kicked down the road, as long as Brexit happens (and as long as the rest of the UK doesn't have to worry about the future problems created for NI itself - shows how much we value each other). In addition, and with regards to the "max fac", trustworthy companies may have "untrustworthy" employees. Money talks these days and, in many cases, it shouts. Need I say more? Lastly, Brexiteers moan about the EU wanting/not wanting a hard border between NI and ROI. If/when they say they do, we go up in arms and ask them to come build it themselves. If/when they say they don't, they are ignored and are still asked to come build it themselves! However Northern Ireland is a small country and is a tight knit community . An illegal immigrant would find it a lot more difficult to blend in and to date immigration has never been an issue. In any event if crossing the border you will have already been through customs controls either at the point of entry to England, Scotland or Wales .
The trusted traders would be vetting their employees to ensure that they only employer reputable drivers . They are hardly going to risk having their vehicles seized by failing to do background checks on drivers .
Any company currently on a green light with VOSA will do all they can to protect this status.
Well this is true the darkies and swarthy looking types will stand out like a sore thumb and are easy to round up and through in a detention centre its the white foreigners that will blend in until they open their mouths.You've not thought your xenophobic reasoning through now have you.?"I would think you are the person who has not thought things through. Judging by your comments I am guess that you have never been to Northern Ireland. A lot of the communities are very tightly knit and people from outside the area including other parts of NI stand out . | |||
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"Funny how people (ok, Brexiteers) don't seem to care about EU nationals being able to cross into NI from the ROI (and stay there - not everyone would want/have to cross over to the rest of the UK). What happens when after a few years NI becomes abused and no longer being able to sustain/tolerate an (effectively) open border with the ROI? But, I suppose, that's another can kicked down the road, as long as Brexit happens (and as long as the rest of the UK doesn't have to worry about the future problems created for NI itself - shows how much we value each other). In addition, and with regards to the "max fac", trustworthy companies may have "untrustworthy" employees. Money talks these days and, in many cases, it shouts. Need I say more? Lastly, Brexiteers moan about the EU wanting/not wanting a hard border between NI and ROI. If/when they say they do, we go up in arms and ask them to come build it themselves. If/when they say they don't, they are ignored and are still asked to come build it themselves! However Northern Ireland is a small country and is a tight knit community . An illegal immigrant would find it a lot more difficult to blend in and to date immigration has never been an issue. In any event if crossing the border you will have already been through customs controls either at the point of entry to England, Scotland or Wales .
The trusted traders would be vetting their employees to ensure that they only employer reputable drivers . They are hardly going to risk having their vehicles seized by failing to do background checks on drivers .
Any company currently on a green light with VOSA will do all they can to protect this status.
Well this is true the darkies and swarthy looking types will stand out like a sore thumb and are easy to round up and through in a detention centre its the white foreigners that will blend in until they open their mouths.You've not thought your xenophobic reasoning through now have you.? I would think you are the person who has not thought things through. Judging by your comments I am guess that you have never been to Northern Ireland. A lot of the communities are very tightly knit and people from outside the area including other parts of NI stand out ."As usual your xenophobic views leave you stumbling in the dark. | |||
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"Funny how people (ok, Brexiteers) don't seem to care about EU nationals being able to cross into NI from the ROI (and stay there - not everyone would want/have to cross over to the rest of the UK). What happens when after a few years NI becomes abused and no longer being able to sustain/tolerate an (effectively) open border with the ROI? But, I suppose, that's another can kicked down the road, as long as Brexit happens (and as long as the rest of the UK doesn't have to worry about the future problems created for NI itself - shows how much we value each other). In addition, and with regards to the "max fac", trustworthy companies may have "untrustworthy" employees. Money talks these days and, in many cases, it shouts. Need I say more? Lastly, Brexiteers moan about the EU wanting/not wanting a hard border between NI and ROI. If/when they say they do, we go up in arms and ask them to come build it themselves. If/when they say they don't, they are ignored and are still asked to come build it themselves! However Northern Ireland is a small country and is a tight knit community . An illegal immigrant would find it a lot more difficult to blend in and to date immigration has never been an issue. In any event if crossing the border you will have already been through customs controls either at the point of entry to England, Scotland or Wales .
The trusted traders would be vetting their employees to ensure that they only employer reputable drivers . They are hardly going to risk having their vehicles seized by failing to do background checks on drivers .
Any company currently on a green light with VOSA will do all they can to protect this status.
Well this is true the darkies and swarthy looking types will stand out like a sore thumb and are easy to round up and through in a detention centre its the white foreigners that will blend in until they open their mouths.You've not thought your xenophobic reasoning through now have you.? I would think you are the person who has not thought things through. Judging by your comments I am guess that you have never been to Northern Ireland. A lot of the communities are very tightly knit and people from outside the area including other parts of NI stand out .
As usual your xenophobic views leave you stumbling in the dark. "My guess is that you have never been to N Ireland or you would not have posted such comments . I am from Northern Ireland and there are still areas that I am carefull to avoid . | |||
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"Funny how people (ok, Brexiteers) don't seem to care about EU nationals being able to cross into NI from the ROI (and stay there - not everyone would want/have to cross over to the rest of the UK). What happens when after a few years NI becomes abused and no longer being able to sustain/tolerate an (effectively) open border with the ROI? But, I suppose, that's another can kicked down the road, as long as Brexit happens (and as long as the rest of the UK doesn't have to worry about the future problems created for NI itself - shows how much we value each other). In addition, and with regards to the "max fac", trustworthy companies may have "untrustworthy" employees. Money talks these days and, in many cases, it shouts. Need I say more? Lastly, Brexiteers moan about the EU wanting/not wanting a hard border between NI and ROI. If/when they say they do, we go up in arms and ask them to come build it themselves. If/when they say they don't, they are ignored and are still asked to come build it themselves! However Northern Ireland is a small country and is a tight knit community . An illegal immigrant would find it a lot more difficult to blend in and to date immigration has never been an issue. In any event if crossing the border you will have already been through customs controls either at the point of entry to England, Scotland or Wales .
The trusted traders would be vetting their employees to ensure that they only employer reputable drivers . They are hardly going to risk having their vehicles seized by failing to do background checks on drivers .
Any company currently on a green light with VOSA will do all they can to protect this status.
Well this is true the darkies and swarthy looking types will stand out like a sore thumb and are easy to round up and through in a detention centre its the white foreigners that will blend in until they open their mouths.You've not thought your xenophobic reasoning through now have you.? I would think you are the person who has not thought things through. Judging by your comments I am guess that you have never been to Northern Ireland. A lot of the communities are very tightly knit and people from outside the area including other parts of NI stand out .
As usual your xenophobic views leave you stumbling in the dark. My guess is that you have never been to N Ireland or you would not have posted such comments . I am from Northern Ireland and there are still areas that I am carefull to avoid . "Your irrefutable irrelevance has been noted. | |||
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" Now you seem to be confusing border checks with boarding checks. As pointed out to you even on domestic flights you have to show ID for boarding at an airport or ferry. You just can't swan around the UK or Ireland on flights or ferries without showing some sort of ID which proves you are who you say you are. It proves you are who you say you are but crucially doesnt prove where you have residency or citizenship. So if somone shows up with valid id do you detain anyone who doesnt look English? And with your fantasy of cameras for the border crossing how do you verify whats in a trucks container? As I said most parcels are tracked electronically these days and company vehicles also have tracking devices placed on them which can be monitored remotely from a computer using Global positioning systems. A trusted trader scheme has also been suggested between Republic of Ireland companies and UK companies. As a percentage the amount of trade that flows over the land border between Rep. Of Ireland and Northern Ireland is relatively small compared to the amount of trade that passes directly between Republic of Ireland and England/Scotland/Wales. It was quoted by a Northern Ireland born Peer during the EU withdrawal bill debate recently in the House of Lords, less than 10% trade goes over the land border and over 90% of trade goes directly between Republic of Ireland and England/Wales/Scotland. No ones worried about parcels sent in the post. And nothing you said addresses any of the issues. Youve said the trade is less than between the Republic and the UK as if thats relevant. How will anyone be sure what goods are travelling over the border without border checks? And how will you stop EU citizens travelling into Northern Ireland? Because trusted trader wont cover everyone and neither will GPS. And even if GPS was an option (its not because it wouldnt work) how much money would that cost Northern Irish business and are you really suggesting that the government track peoples movement like that? The only workable suggestion so far is regulatory alignment. Its the only solution that means no border checks. Centaur's solution, not border checks, but the government is gonna put a GPS tracker on everyone's car and a webcam in their boot! Who needs civil rights when you can have Brexit!
Misquoting me again, that's twice on 2 separate threads today, are you going for a hat trick?
GPS trackers would go on company vehicles specifically haulage companies and heavy goods vehicles in trusted trader schemes. As for Web cams in people's car boots then do you carry a mobile phone? You do realise the police already track people from using their mobile phone details, every smartphone has a GPS in it and the technology has already been used to solve crimes and to find missing people. If you carry a mobile phone around then your whereabouts can be monitored and tracked.
Oh dear oh dear, no quotation marks, it wasn't intended as a direct quote, it was a slightly hyperbolic summation of what you had said.
I'm gonna guess that the company you worked for that tracked their vehicles wouldn't be too keen on sharing that data, for example with the government!
The government do not routinely monitor the movement of every citizen every minute of the day. Any reputable company is hardly going to be too concerned about sharing information from trackers with the government . Assuming all the relevant legislation is being adhered too there is nothing to lose and by bring co operative it leaves more time for the government to track and investigate rogue companies and drive them out of business.
Have you asked any reputable companies about that? If they are willing to fork out the costs for the technology? And will this technology be up, running and installed in every vehicle by next March? With the relevant systems for monitoring the data at HMRC from the trackers, or interpreting it for tax purposes?
"We do officially leave the EU in March but then a transition period of 21 months begins also known as the 'implementation period'. This is when the technology will be 'implemented' and put in place, so you are wrong to assume it all has to be done and dusted and finalised by March. There is plenty of time during transition/implementation period to put the technology in place. | |||
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" There are checks on EU citizens. If you've ever been on holiday from the UK to Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc then you have to show your passport. This is because the UK is an island and you need to pass through either an airport or a ferry Port. It's the same for Rep. Of Ireland. You don’t half talk rubbish at times.... You have not been on an internal flight lately have you centy!!! There are no controls Also the reason why UK people show passports to travel in Europe is because we are not part of schengen!!! I have been on more flights this year than you have been on in your life. And I don't need to be patronised by the likes of you. For your information, you cannot get on any flight, anywhere, without showing ID, because they are worried about terrorism and check who is flying. That is unlikely to change. Ever. Thanks to migrants. It is not like using the bus or train. Try and fly from Newcastle to London with no ID in this country and they will deny you boarding for that reason. The only internal flights that you can go on without ID are private, but even then, they know who you are, because they know who owns the plane, or helicopter, or they know who chartered it. And if you do it often enough, you get to know the staff and the pilot. And you might have to bow to my superior knowledge on that one, because one of us does that, and I suspect you don't! The purpose of ID on a domestic flight is solely that you are who you say you are on the ticket!! No other reason.... If you are going to challenge someone’s knowledge then I suggest it is not someone who dealt with European train and train ferry packages for a railway company for 10 years.... So don’t bring a knife to a gun fight
What you are dangerously close to suggesting are border checks on domestic flights and ferries between Northern Ireland and the mainland and if you think people hate the idea in the north.. here is a newsflash for you, they hate that idea even more!
Now you seem to be confusing border checks with boarding checks. As pointed out to you even on domestic flights you have to show ID for boarding at an airport or ferry. You just can't swan around the UK or Ireland on flights or ferries without showing some sort of ID which proves you are who you say you are.
So there will be a physical hard border then between NI and the UK, with everyone having a passport or ID checked to see if they will be allowed entry? Not just to see if they can get on the boat/plane.
It already happens now boarding a plane or a ferry!
No it doesn’t. There is no customs/passport control if you fly from NI to the mainland U.K.
-Matt"As has already been said numerous times on the thread ID checks are in place for domestic flights within the UK. Airlines have to make sure you are who you say you are to allocate your seat before you can board a plane, if not then what would stop any Tom, Dick or Harry taking your seat and impersonating you? | |||
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" There are checks on EU citizens. If you've ever been on holiday from the UK to Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc then you have to show your passport. This is because the UK is an island and you need to pass through either an airport or a ferry Port. It's the same for Rep. Of Ireland. You don’t half talk rubbish at times.... You have not been on an internal flight lately have you centy!!! There are no controls Also the reason why UK people show passports to travel in Europe is because we are not part of schengen!!! I have been on more flights this year than you have been on in your life. And I don't need to be patronised by the likes of you. For your information, you cannot get on any flight, anywhere, without showing ID, because they are worried about terrorism and check who is flying. That is unlikely to change. Ever. Thanks to migrants. It is not like using the bus or train. Try and fly from Newcastle to London with no ID in this country and they will deny you boarding for that reason. The only internal flights that you can go on without ID are private, but even then, they know who you are, because they know who owns the plane, or helicopter, or they know who chartered it. And if you do it often enough, you get to know the staff and the pilot. And you might have to bow to my superior knowledge on that one, because one of us does that, and I suspect you don't! The purpose of ID on a domestic flight is solely that you are who you say you are on the ticket!! No other reason.... If you are going to challenge someone’s knowledge then I suggest it is not someone who dealt with European train and train ferry packages for a railway company for 10 years.... So don’t bring a knife to a gun fight
What you are dangerously close to suggesting are border checks on domestic flights and ferries between Northern Ireland and the mainland and if you think people hate the idea in the north.. here is a newsflash for you, they hate that idea even more!
Now you seem to be confusing border checks with boarding checks. As pointed out to you even on domestic flights you have to show ID for boarding at an airport or ferry. You just can't swan around the UK or Ireland on flights or ferries without showing some sort of ID which proves you are who you say you are.
So there will be a physical hard border then between NI and the UK, with everyone having a passport or ID checked to see if they will be allowed entry? Not just to see if they can get on the boat/plane.
It already happens now boarding a plane or a ferry!
No it doesn’t. There is no customs/passport control if you fly from NI to the mainland U.K.
-Matt
As has already been said numerous times on the thread ID checks are in place for domestic flights within the UK. Airlines have to make sure you are who you say you are to allocate your seat before you can board a plane, if not then what would stop any Tom, Dick or Harry taking your seat and impersonating you? "I fully endorse this view . In many ways the checks are tighter than going through passport control as you are the subjct to a full security check at the airport . In addition I am fairly certain that the government have access to the flight manifests and at some entry points you have to walk past a police point . Points of entry to NI are limited to two main airports ( Aldergrove and Belfast City ) plus a small airport at Derry / Londonderry . For freight it is Belfast / Larne / and Warrenpoint . Anyone moving freight has to enter a secure designated area . Anyone entering NI will probably have already passed through security at a customs / security point in England , Scotland / Wales or the Republic of Ireland . It should also be remembered that NI is a small counry, the community is tightly knit , and hiding illegal activivity or blending in would be much more difficult | |||
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" It should also be remembered that NI is a small counry, the community is tightly knit , and hiding illegal activivity or blending in would be much more difficult " Oh dear God, hiding illegal activity would be hard in Northern Ireland? Hadnt realised there was no crime up there these days. Guess the police up there just spend their days rescuing kittens from tree or is it difficult to see why kittens would get stuck on Northern Irish trees because of their tight knit community? 96% of crimes against the elderly in Northern Ireland are unsolved. You'd think in a tight knit community where its impossible to hide any crime that we should be seeing a higher solve rate. Dont you think? Tight knit communities should protect their most vulnerable members and yet that doesnt seem to be the case. Little bit of advice; when posting try to maintain a little logic, maybe even read over your post and ask yourself "Is this something intelligent and well thought out, or is it another post that will be made fun of because its completely illogical and make me look a fool". And yes, we've all heard the dozens of times you say you dont care about the criticism you recieve from the imaginary people and the cyberwebs because they dont count. Still, a reasonable person would at least consider the fact that after multiple people tell them theyre wrong they might consider it may be true. | |||
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"Bottom line is UK voted to leave UK voted for a hard border...typical brexit mob blaming someone else for something they caused..you put a border in you put lives in danger. That's just fact But hey ho it's doesn't affect England so why should middle England care about their so called equal citizens. Welcome to the end of Great Britain...England and probably Wales good bye " Why do you think it puts lives in danger ? I now live in London but I’m originally from Donegal, i remember what crossing the border was like. | |||
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" It should also be remembered that NI is a small counry, the community is tightly knit , and hiding illegal activivity or blending in would be much more difficult Oh dear God, hiding illegal activity would be hard in Northern Ireland? Hadnt realised there was no crime up there these days. Guess the police up there just spend their days rescuing kittens from tree or is it difficult to see why kittens would get stuck on Northern Irish trees because of their tight knit community? 96% of crimes against the elderly in Northern Ireland are unsolved. You'd think in a tight knit community where its impossible to hide any crime that we should be seeing a higher solve rate. Dont you think? Tight knit communities should protect their most vulnerable members and yet that doesnt seem to be the case. Little bit of advice; when posting try to maintain a little logic, maybe even read over your post and ask yourself "Is this something intelligent and well thought out, or is it another post that will be made fun of because its completely illogical and make me look a fool". And yes, we've all heard the dozens of times you say you dont care about the criticism you recieve from the imaginary people and the cyberwebs because they dont count. Still, a reasonable person would at least consider the fact that after multiple people tell them theyre wrong they might consider it may be true." Maybe you are the poster who needs to read more carefully. The post actually said that that hiding such activity was more difficult, it never said that crime did not exist . I would consider you post a negative one and as such simply ignore its content. People can post anything that they like on the internet or on a forum such as this. Negative feedback on a forum such as this is irrelevant as any keyboard warrior can criticise another member. The only feedback that matters is what you receive in real life . There will always be those who feel brave stuck behind the anonymity of a keyboard . | |||
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" There are checks on EU citizens. If you've ever been on holiday from the UK to Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc then you have to show your passport. This is because the UK is an island and you need to pass through either an airport or a ferry Port. It's the same for Rep. Of Ireland. You don’t half talk rubbish at times.... You have not been on an internal flight lately have you centy!!! There are no controls Also the reason why UK people show passports to travel in Europe is because we are not part of schengen!!! I have been on more flights this year than you have been on in your life. And I don't need to be patronised by the likes of you. For your information, you cannot get on any flight, anywhere, without showing ID, because they are worried about terrorism and check who is flying. That is unlikely to change. Ever. Thanks to migrants. It is not like using the bus or train. Try and fly from Newcastle to London with no ID in this country and they will deny you boarding for that reason. The only internal flights that you can go on without ID are private, but even then, they know who you are, because they know who owns the plane, or helicopter, or they know who chartered it. And if you do it often enough, you get to know the staff and the pilot. And you might have to bow to my superior knowledge on that one, because one of us does that, and I suspect you don't! The purpose of ID on a domestic flight is solely that you are who you say you are on the ticket!! No other reason.... If you are going to challenge someone’s knowledge then I suggest it is not someone who dealt with European train and train ferry packages for a railway company for 10 years.... So don’t bring a knife to a gun fight
What you are dangerously close to suggesting are border checks on domestic flights and ferries between Northern Ireland and the mainland and if you think people hate the idea in the north.. here is a newsflash for you, they hate that idea even more!
Now you seem to be confusing border checks with boarding checks. As pointed out to you even on domestic flights you have to show ID for boarding at an airport or ferry. You just can't swan around the UK or Ireland on flights or ferries without showing some sort of ID which proves you are who you say you are.
So there will be a physical hard border then between NI and the UK, with everyone having a passport or ID checked to see if they will be allowed entry? Not just to see if they can get on the boat/plane.
It already happens now boarding a plane or a ferry!
No it doesn’t. There is no customs/passport control if you fly from NI to the mainland U.K.
-Matt
As has already been said numerous times on the thread ID checks are in place for domestic flights within the UK. Airlines have to make sure you are who you say you are to allocate your seat before you can board a plane, if not then what would stop any Tom, Dick or Harry taking your seat and impersonating you? "And? I’m talking about customs and passport control. -Matt | |||
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"Bottom line is UK voted to leave UK voted for a hard border...typical brexit mob blaming someone else for something they caused..you put a border in you put lives in danger. That's just fact But hey ho it's doesn't affect England so why should middle England care about their so called equal citizens. Welcome to the end of Great Britain...England and probably Wales good bye Why do you think it puts lives in danger ? I now live in London but I’m originally from Donegal, i remember what crossing the border was like. " Pretty simple and I'm surprised a man from Donegal doesn't know why. Certain factions still believe in the armed struggle. One thing the GFA brought was a feeling of complete irishness to the people who wanted in the north and a feeling of safe Britishness to anyone else. Put a border in the men with the guns will say England lied the peace process has failed and the only solution is war with England. Then paradox for people who voted brexit will be why are the IRA back and why are they bombing England. However as ever it won't be their fault....even though they voted for the structure that brought it about. | |||
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"Bottom line is UK voted to leave UK voted for a hard border...typical brexit mob blaming someone else for something they caused..you put a border in you put lives in danger. That's just fact But hey ho it's doesn't affect England so why should middle England care about their so called equal citizens. Welcome to the end of Great Britain...England and probably Wales good bye Why do you think it puts lives in danger ? I now live in London but I’m originally from Donegal, i remember what crossing the border was like. Pretty simple and I'm surprised a man from Donegal doesn't know why. Certain factions still believe in the armed struggle. One thing the GFA brought was a feeling of complete irishness to the people who wanted in the north and a feeling of safe Britishness to anyone else. Put a border in the men with the guns will say England lied the peace process has failed and the only solution is war with England. Then paradox for people who voted brexit will be why are the IRA back and why are they bombing England. However as ever it won't be their fault....even though they voted for the structure that brought it about." What relevance would a border have to the GFA ?. At the time of the GFA Brexit did not exist and the only controls that are being proposed relate to the movement of goods. The concept of lying does not even enter the equation. | |||
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" It should also be remembered that NI is a small counry, the community is tightly knit , and hiding illegal activivity or blending in would be much more difficult Oh dear God, hiding illegal activity would be hard in Northern Ireland? Hadnt realised there was no crime up there these days. Guess the police up there just spend their days rescuing kittens from tree or is it difficult to see why kittens would get stuck on Northern Irish trees because of their tight knit community? 96% of crimes against the elderly in Northern Ireland are unsolved. You'd think in a tight knit community where its impossible to hide any crime that we should be seeing a higher solve rate. Dont you think? Tight knit communities should protect their most vulnerable members and yet that doesnt seem to be the case. Little bit of advice; when posting try to maintain a little logic, maybe even read over your post and ask yourself "Is this something intelligent and well thought out, or is it another post that will be made fun of because its completely illogical and make me look a fool". And yes, we've all heard the dozens of times you say you dont care about the criticism you recieve from the imaginary people and the cyberwebs because they dont count. Still, a reasonable person would at least consider the fact that after multiple people tell them theyre wrong they might consider it may be true. Maybe you are the poster who needs to read more carefully. The post actually said that that hiding such activity was more difficult, it never said that crime did not exist . I would consider you post a negative one and as such simply ignore its content. People can post anything that they like on the internet or on a forum such as this. Negative feedback on a forum such as this is irrelevant as any keyboard warrior can criticise another member. The only feedback that matters is what you receive in real life . There will always be those who feel brave stuck behind the anonymity of a keyboard ." I have just checked and outside of Belfast Northern Ireland has some of the lowest recorded crime rates in Western Europe. | |||
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" What relevance would a border have to the GFA ?" Is that even a serious question or are you trolling? You should know that everyone in N Ireland can apply and be given an Irish passport by virtue of being born on the island of Ireland. This allows those who want to, to move openly and freely around the island of Ireland. A border is a direct statement that there is a division and that is not acceptable under the terms of the GFA. " At the time of the GFA Brexit did not exist and the only controls that are being proposed relate to the movement of goods. The concept of lying does not even enter the equation. " You have answered your own question. However the follow up question is self-evident... The UK will have only one land border with the EU after Brexit. It always has had a natural sea border with the EU and not being part of Shenghen it always has had control over those borders. What then does the expression, "taking back control of our borders actually mean"? if no one wants to have a border at the only land border that we have. It is just nonsensical. | |||
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" Now you seem to be confusing border checks with boarding checks. As pointed out to you even on domestic flights you have to show ID for boarding at an airport or ferry. You just can't swan around the UK or Ireland on flights or ferries without showing some sort of ID which proves you are who you say you are. So there will be a physical hard border then between NI and the UK, with everyone having a passport or ID checked to see if they will be allowed entry? Not just to see if they can get on the boat/plane. It already happens now boarding a plane or a ferry!
No it doesn’t. There is no customs/passport control if you fly from NI to the mainland U.K.
-Matt
As has already been said numerous times on the thread ID checks are in place for domestic flights within the UK. Airlines have to make sure you are who you say you are to allocate your seat before you can board a plane, if not then what would stop any Tom, Dick or Harry taking your seat and impersonating you? "You have just made matt’s point centy in that you seem to not know the difference between a BOARDING check and a BORDER check A boarding check won’t stop anyone travelling from Northern Ireland to the mainland | |||
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"Funny how people (ok, Brexiteers) don't seem to care about EU nationals being able to cross into NI from the ROI (and stay there - not everyone would want/have to cross over to the rest of the UK). What happens when after a few years NI becomes abused and no longer being able to sustain/tolerate an (effectively) open border with the ROI? But, I suppose, that's another can kicked down the road, as long as Brexit happens (and as long as the rest of the UK doesn't have to worry about the future problems created for NI itself - shows how much we value each other). In addition, and with regards to the "max fac", trustworthy companies may have "untrustworthy" employees. Money talks these days and, in many cases, it shouts. Need I say more? Lastly, Brexiteers moan about the EU wanting/not wanting a hard border between NI and ROI. If/when they say they do, we go up in arms and ask them to come build it themselves. If/when they say they don't, they are ignored and are still asked to come build it themselves! However Northern Ireland is a small country and is a tight knit community . An illegal immigrant would find it a lot more difficult to blend in and to date immigration has never been an issue. In any event if crossing the border you will have already been through customs controls either at the point of entry to England, Scotland or Wales .
The trusted traders would be vetting their employees to ensure that they only employer reputable drivers . They are hardly going to risk having their vehicles seized by failing to do background checks on drivers .
Any company currently on a green light with VOSA will do all they can to protect this status. "What customs controls? If someone flies to Dublin from Europe and then crosses the border by car/bike/foot/donkey to NI, they're not stopped. Are you suggesting there's customs controls from NI to England/Scotland/Wales? As for the trusted companies vetting their employess, they can vet all they like. It only takes a rogue one to cause mayhem that won't be discovered until way way way too late (and I'm not talking about truck drivers only - truck drivers don't load those trucks themselves. There's hundreds of people within companies that could abuse the no checks border and we all know that if something can be abused, people will find a million ways to abuse it). | |||
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"Funny how people (ok, Brexiteers) don't seem to care about EU nationals being able to cross into NI from the ROI (and stay there - not everyone would want/have to cross over to the rest of the UK). What happens when after a few years NI becomes abused and no longer being able to sustain/tolerate an (effectively) open border with the ROI? But, I suppose, that's another can kicked down the road, as long as Brexit happens (and as long as the rest of the UK doesn't have to worry about the future problems created for NI itself - shows how much we value each other). In addition, and with regards to the "max fac", trustworthy companies may have "untrustworthy" employees. Money talks these days and, in many cases, it shouts. Need I say more? Lastly, Brexiteers moan about the EU wanting/not wanting a hard border between NI and ROI. If/when they say they do, we go up in arms and ask them to come build it themselves. If/when they say they don't, they are ignored and are still asked to come build it themselves! However Northern Ireland is a small country and is a tight knit community . An illegal immigrant would find it a lot more difficult to blend in and to date immigration has never been an issue. In any event if crossing the border you will have already been through customs controls either at the point of entry to England, Scotland or Wales .
The trusted traders would be vetting their employees to ensure that they only employer reputable drivers . They are hardly going to risk having their vehicles seized by failing to do background checks on drivers .
Any company currently on a green light with VOSA will do all they can to protect this status.
What customs controls? If someone flies to Dublin from Europe and then crosses the border by car/bike/foot/donkey to NI, they're not stopped. Are you suggesting there's customs controls from NI to England/Scotland/Wales?
As for the trusted companies vetting their employess, they can vet all they like. It only takes a rogue one to cause mayhem that won't be discovered until way way way too late (and I'm not talking about truck drivers only - truck drivers don't load those trucks themselves. There's hundreds of people within companies that could abuse the no checks border and we all know that if something can be abused, people will find a million ways to abuse it)."No, no. Companies will have fullproof protocol that will prevent 100% of smuggling because its in their interest. Im surprised you dont know about this because thats how we stopped all drug smuggling. | |||
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"Funny how people (ok, Brexiteers) don't seem to care about EU nationals being able to cross into NI from the ROI (and stay there - not everyone would want/have to cross over to the rest of the UK). What happens when after a few years NI becomes abused and no longer being able to sustain/tolerate an (effectively) open border with the ROI? But, I suppose, that's another can kicked down the road, as long as Brexit happens (and as long as the rest of the UK doesn't have to worry about the future problems created for NI itself - shows how much we value each other). In addition, and with regards to the "max fac", trustworthy companies may have "untrustworthy" employees. Money talks these days and, in many cases, it shouts. Need I say more? Lastly, Brexiteers moan about the EU wanting/not wanting a hard border between NI and ROI. If/when they say they do, we go up in arms and ask them to come build it themselves. If/when they say they don't, they are ignored and are still asked to come build it themselves! However Northern Ireland is a small country and is a tight knit community . An illegal immigrant would find it a lot more difficult to blend in and to date immigration has never been an issue. In any event if crossing the border you will have already been through customs controls either at the point of entry to England, Scotland or Wales .
The trusted traders would be vetting their employees to ensure that they only employer reputable drivers . They are hardly going to risk having their vehicles seized by failing to do background checks on drivers .
Any company currently on a green light with VOSA will do all they can to protect this status.
What customs controls? If someone flies to Dublin from Europe and then crosses the border by car/bike/foot/donkey to NI, they're not stopped. Are you suggesting there's customs controls from NI to England/Scotland/Wales?
As for the trusted companies vetting their employess, they can vet all they like. It only takes a rogue one to cause mayhem that won't be discovered until way way way too late (and I'm not talking about truck drivers only - truck drivers don't load those trucks themselves. There's hundreds of people within companies that could abuse the no checks border and we all know that if something can be abused, people will find a million ways to abuse it).
No, no. Companies will have fullproof protocol that will prevent 100% of smuggling because its in their interest. Im surprised you dont know about this because thats how we stopped all drug smuggling."Nothing is 100% foolproof. Smuggling goes on over the border in Ireland today and has happened for years. | |||
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" Now you seem to be confusing border checks with boarding checks. As pointed out to you even on domestic flights you have to show ID for boarding at an airport or ferry. You just can't swan around the UK or Ireland on flights or ferries without showing some sort of ID which proves you are who you say you are. So there will be a physical hard border then between NI and the UK, with everyone having a passport or ID checked to see if they will be allowed entry? Not just to see if they can get on the boat/plane. It already happens now boarding a plane or a ferry!
No it doesn’t. There is no customs/passport control if you fly from NI to the mainland U.K.
-Matt
As has already been said numerous times on the thread ID checks are in place for domestic flights within the UK. Airlines have to make sure you are who you say you are to allocate your seat before you can board a plane, if not then what would stop any Tom, Dick or Harry taking your seat and impersonating you?
You have just made matt’s point centy in that you seem to not know the difference between a BOARDING check and a BORDER check
A boarding check won’t stop anyone travelling from Northern Ireland to the mainland "You're wrong Fabio. A boarding check could be used to stop someone if their name came up on a terrorist watchlist. Someone else already mentioned it earlier in the thread but you seem to have ignored it. A boarding check could also be used as a border check after Brexit. | |||
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" What relevance would a border have to the GFA ? Is that even a serious question or are you trolling? You should know that everyone in N Ireland can apply and be given an Irish passport by virtue of being born on the island of Ireland. This allows those who want to, to move openly and freely around the island of Ireland. A border is a direct statement that there is a division and that is not acceptable under the terms of the GFA. At the time of the GFA Brexit did not exist and the only controls that are being proposed relate to the movement of goods. The concept of lying does not even enter the equation. You have answered your own question. However the follow up question is self-evident... The UK will have only one land border with the EU after Brexit. It always has had a natural sea border with the EU and not being part of Shenghen it always has had control over those borders. What then does the expression, "taking back control of our borders actually mean"? if no one wants to have a border at the only land border that we have. It is just nonsensical." Good grief, where to start? On your first point a border already exists in Ireland and has done since the good Friday agreement was signed. There is a currency border where Pound sterling is used on one side and Euros are used on the other. There is a tax border where different rates of tax exist in Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland. There is a health care border where different heath care systems exist on either side of the border. The list goes on and on and on over different aspects on people's lives either side of the border. On your 2nd point to say the UK only has one land border with the EU is false. As well as the land border in Ireland the UK also has a land border with the EU in Gibraltar. The one and only reason why there is difficulty over the Irish border is because a solution has to be found that takes into consideration the good Friday agreement. The Gibraltar border with Spain won't have the restrictions of the good Friday agreement around it. | |||
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" Now you seem to be confusing border checks with boarding checks. As pointed out to you even on domestic flights you have to show ID for boarding at an airport or ferry. You just can't swan around the UK or Ireland on flights or ferries without showing some sort of ID which proves you are who you say you are. So there will be a physical hard border then between NI and the UK, with everyone having a passport or ID checked to see if they will be allowed entry? Not just to see if they can get on the boat/plane. It already happens now boarding a plane or a ferry!
No it doesn’t. There is no customs/passport control if you fly from NI to the mainland U.K.
-Matt
As has already been said numerous times on the thread ID checks are in place for domestic flights within the UK. Airlines have to make sure you are who you say you are to allocate your seat before you can board a plane, if not then what would stop any Tom, Dick or Harry taking your seat and impersonating you?
You have just made matt’s point centy in that you seem to not know the difference between a BOARDING check and a BORDER check
A boarding check won’t stop anyone travelling from Northern Ireland to the mainland
You're wrong Fabio. A boarding check could be used to stop someone if their name came up on a terrorist watchlist. Someone else already mentioned it earlier in the thread but you seem to have ignored it. A boarding check could also be used as a border check after Brexit. "So you are suggesting that we implement customs and passport checks and put a border in between NI and the mainland U.K.? -Matt | |||
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" Good grief, where to start? On your first point a border already exists in Ireland and has done since the good Friday agreement was signed. There is a currency border where Pound sterling is used on one side and Euros are used on the other. There is a tax border where different rates of tax exist in Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland. There is a health care border where different heath care systems exist on either side of the border. The list goes on and on and on over different aspects on people's lives either side of the border. On your 2nd point to say the UK only has one land border with the EU is false. As well as the land border in Ireland the UK also has a land border with the EU in Gibraltar. The one and only reason why there is difficulty over the Irish border is because a solution has to be found that takes into consideration the good Friday agreement. The Gibraltar border with Spain won't have the restrictions of the good Friday agreement around it. " Good grief, what nonsense. A currency border? Thats not a thing. And besides, on the border most businesses will take both currencies for simplicity sake. Health care border, also not a thing. Different management, name and policies but thats also true of regional divides within countries. Youre just attempting to be pedantic now. Anyone in the Republic can go North and not be denied entry, spend sterling and get healthcare if they need it. | |||
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" Good grief, where to start? On your first point a border already exists in Ireland and has done since the good Friday agreement was signed. There is a currency border where Pound sterling is used on one side and Euros are used on the other. There is a tax border where different rates of tax exist in Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland. There is a health care border where different heath care systems exist on either side of the border. The list goes on and on and on over different aspects on people's lives either side of the border. On your 2nd point to say the UK only has one land border with the EU is false. As well as the land border in Ireland the UK also has a land border with the EU in Gibraltar. The one and only reason why there is difficulty over the Irish border is because a solution has to be found that takes into consideration the good Friday agreement. The Gibraltar border with Spain won't have the restrictions of the good Friday agreement around it. Good grief, what nonsense. A currency border? Thats not a thing. And besides, on the border most businesses will take both currencies for simplicity sake. Health care border, also not a thing. Different management, name and policies but thats also true of regional divides within countries. Youre just attempting to be pedantic now. Anyone in the Republic can go North and not be denied entry, spend sterling and get healthcare if they need it." Hardly nonsense . The health system is different in the republic of Ireland in that it is not frèe at point of use . Paying for a health service is entirely different to the current uk system. The fact remains that both countries use different currencies and taxation rates are also different. | |||
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" Good grief, where to start? On your first point a border already exists in Ireland and has done since the good Friday agreement was signed. There is a currency border where Pound sterling is used on one side and Euros are used on the other. There is a tax border where different rates of tax exist in Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland. There is a health care border where different heath care systems exist on either side of the border. The list goes on and on and on over different aspects on people's lives either side of the border. On your 2nd point to say the UK only has one land border with the EU is false. As well as the land border in Ireland the UK also has a land border with the EU in Gibraltar. The one and only reason why there is difficulty over the Irish border is because a solution has to be found that takes into consideration the good Friday agreement. The Gibraltar border with Spain won't have the restrictions of the good Friday agreement around it. Good grief, what nonsense. A currency border? Thats not a thing. And besides, on the border most businesses will take both currencies for simplicity sake. Health care border, also not a thing. Different management, name and policies but thats also true of regional divides within countries. Youre just attempting to be pedantic now. Anyone in the Republic can go North and not be denied entry, spend sterling and get healthcare if they need it. Hardly nonsense . The health system is different in the republic of Ireland in that it is not frèe at point of use . Paying for a health service is entirely different to the current uk system. The fact remains that both countries use different currencies and taxation rates are also different." The nonsense part was pretending that constitutes a border when companies that are on the border will take both currencies and that different health policies are analagous to border checkpoints. Do try and keep up. | |||
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" Good grief, where to start? On your first point a border already exists in Ireland and has done since the good Friday agreement was signed. There is a currency border where Pound sterling is used on one side and Euros are used on the other. There is a tax border where different rates of tax exist in Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland. There is a health care border where different heath care systems exist on either side of the border. The list goes on and on and on over different aspects on people's lives either side of the border. On your 2nd point to say the UK only has one land border with the EU is false. As well as the land border in Ireland the UK also has a land border with the EU in Gibraltar. The one and only reason why there is difficulty over the Irish border is because a solution has to be found that takes into consideration the good Friday agreement. The Gibraltar border with Spain won't have the restrictions of the good Friday agreement around it. Good grief, what nonsense. A currency border? Thats not a thing. And besides, on the border most businesses will take both currencies for simplicity sake. Health care border, also not a thing. Different management, name and policies but thats also true of regional divides within countries. Youre just attempting to be pedantic now. Anyone in the Republic can go North and not be denied entry, spend sterling and get healthcare if they need it. Hardly nonsense . The health system is different in the republic of Ireland in that it is not frèe at point of use . Paying for a health service is entirely different to the current uk system. The fact remains that both countries use different currencies and taxation rates are also different." So we need to ‘take back control’ of our borders then? Otherwise we are will get all those damn EU citizens crossing the border and putting a strain on our NHS right? -Matt | |||
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"So I guess we can agree now that the backstop is the only way to handle Northern Ireland then? The question is do the Tories go back on their deal with the DUP or does the rest of the UK come along for the ride?" Has the eu not just rejected Mays interpretation of the back stop ??? | |||
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"So I guess we can agree now that the backstop is the only way to handle Northern Ireland then? The question is do the Tories go back on their deal with the DUP or does the rest of the UK come along for the ride? Has the eu not just rejected Mays interpretation of the back stop ???" Yes, I was referring to the actual backstop agreed not Mays fanciful version of things. Corbyns speech today is also a pipe dream because he wants to be in a customs union, have no border and have a say in the EU. Thats membership. If the UK want to be a member under a different name then thats fine if it will sooth the egos of Brexiters but it will be on the EUs terms. | |||
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